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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and
violence, and is not intended for all

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00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:14,279
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Did you do anything that hurt No,

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I would never. Just like,
fucking my girlfriend just got murdered and you're

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fucking blaming me for it, dude, What the fuck? Hello and welcome.

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This is season ten, episode two
hundred and forty one of Sword and

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Scale, a show that reveals that
the worst monsters are real. Well,

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00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,719
we hope you've been enjoying our new
show, Sword and Scale Nightmares. That

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show will be coming to our Plus
platform sometime soon, we hope pretty soon.

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But there's a lot of, you
know, stuff we got to do

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in the background to make that happen. It doesn't just happen. It's a

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platform we've built from scratch, so
everybody just calm down, please. In

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the meantime, you can sign up
for Plus. It's at Sword and Scale

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dot com slash Plus, and for
just a small amount per month, you

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get to support your favorite show and
get all kinds of exclusive content you won't

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find on the ad supported free feed. Head on over to Sword and Scale

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dot com slash plus to find out
more. We'll see you there then,

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let's get started. Shale. There's
a common phrase among homicide detectives that goes

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a little something like this, It's
always the husband. While this phrase is

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usually said in jest, it's broader
meaning is that when a woman is found

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to be murdered, the culprit is
almost certainly her current or former intimate partner.

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The main reason this phrase exists is
because statistically, women are much more

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likely to be killed by their part
or their ex than by anyone else.

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According to FBI data, about sixty
three percent of adult female homicides are committed

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by current husbands and boyfriends or ex
husbands and ex boyfriends. While that is

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the majority, it means that thirty
seven percent of all other female homicides are

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committed by someone else, and unfortunately, that's a pretty big number, especially

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when you consider that more than three
thousand women are murdered in the United States

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every year. It also means that
the phrase it's always the husband is wildly

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inaccurate. Still, when a female
murder case is investigated, the husband,

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boyfriend, or x often becomes the
center point of the investigation. They become

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the main suspect, and any kind
of circumstantial evidence can make them seem more

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guilty than the day is long.
Statistically speaking, they are probably guilty,

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but there are many many murder cases
where the current or ex partner is simply

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not to blame. About one hundred
miles west of Boston, SIT's the historic

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city of Chickapee, Massachusetts. Perhaps
best known for being home to the largest

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Air Force base in the United States, Chickapee is also the second largest city

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in western Massachusetts, with a population
of over fifty five thousand people. This

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sprawling city is no stranger to crime
or murder. In March of twenty thirteen,

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a young Chickapee man made a bizarre
phone call to nine one one.

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After explaining a very strange plight to
the operator, The young man was ultimately

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transferred to a homicide at Active Well. The policeman recorded, Would I get

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in trouble for turning over a friend? What do you want to try a

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friend over for? Well? They
called me, and I don't know if

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I should take it too Okay,
what what's the crime that was committed?

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They said, they killed somebody a
couple of years ago. According to the

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caller, he had recently received a
shocking email from a friend in that email

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his friend confessed to murdering a young
woman in twenty eleven. You just got

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the email today, Yeah, I
think it's scared the hell out of me.

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He was having a thing for a
week prior and then when she turned

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down because he trying to get into
it with her, he's taught mad and

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stabbed her and then got scared and
ran. Did he say where he stabbed

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her? No, he wanted to
say where he diffendy stabbed her or over

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then you know, like different multiple
times. And the girl, what did

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you say in her name was Amanda? I couldn't pronounce the last name.

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Last. Back in August of twenty
eleven, about two years before this nine

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one one call was placed, twenty
year old Amanda Plas was living by herself

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in a small apartment in Chickapee.
At some point during the latter half of

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August, Amanda invited her friend Cairo
to her apartment. You visited her that

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day and you had not seen her
for a while, correct, That is

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the absolute trees yet. And when
you saw that day, how did you?

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Guys? Those way look up on
Facebook? But she was like onboard

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or whatever, and I was like
me too, and then I think we

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did the number of thing, because
I don't. I don't even think I

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had her number, because her and
I I didn't really not ever lost touch.

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But I guess you could say we
weren't ever close friends, like I

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didn't have her number before this day. Cairo's meet up with Amanda that day

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was an impromptu late morning get together, and according to Kay, when she

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arrived at Amanda's apartment, she didn't
notice anything that caught her attention or anything

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that seemed unusual. You saw Amanda
outside. I saw Amanda outside. I

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didn't see anything suspicious or that I
would have noticed to be out of the

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ordinary, something that she had told
me of the back, when someone was

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maybe calling at her while she was
outside, whether it was just someone being

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and at hy mommy or whatever,
aside from an annoying cat call. Cairo

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explained that Amanda didn't mention any specific
problems that she had that morning, and

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after Cairo arrived, the two young
ladies went inside Amanda's apartment where they smoked

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some weed. After lighting up,
Amanda and Cairo quickly started to bond,

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and Amanda began talking about her new
boyfriend, Seth, So her and Seth

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were very open about like their relationship, and she's like, oh yeah,

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we was it smoked, sexed and
showered because she was telling me about their

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little morning together and oh yeah,
su sex and shower, so I had

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known that she had already showered with
him. Among the boyfriend chit chat,

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Cairo and Amanda also talked about life
in general. Topics like family, work,

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and personal interests all came up.
The conversations that you had with her

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up there as yeah, yeah,
it was really it was like great to

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see her. I hadn't seen her
in so long, we had been acquaintances.

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When it was great. I was
going to her apartment and how you

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doing. You're living on your own
now, you know, just basically telling

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her how proud I was over and
just fully, shit, you're crushing,

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like Harry, I'm stillivan back at
my folks house, you know, and

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I'm working on my grind. And
I was like, dude, that's awesome,

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Like you're on your own and you're
just doing really awesome for yourself.

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She seemed really happy living on her
own. It was like her second apartment

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or something like she'd seemed like she'd
been on her own for a while.

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We're just really trying to like connect. I was excited the media was making

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I guess you did a new friendship
for the future. Amanda Lynn Plas was

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born in December of nineteen ninety in
Chickapee and was well known for her bright

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and bubbly personality, her big green
eyes, and her natural brunette curls.

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As a young woman, Amanda was
self sufficient and seemingly on top of all

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the things that are required to make
an independent life possible. She had her

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own place, her bills were paid, and she was able to make ends

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meet by working full time as a
waitress at a nearby Friendli's restaurant. In

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addition to being a responsible young adult, Amanda was also artistic, and she

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had a passion for drawing, painting, and playing guitar. She also really

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enjoyed going to music festivals with her
friends. Do you go to music festivals

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like you love art? You love
music? And as we started talking about

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life and saith and what she was
doing and what she've been doing the past

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summer and music festivals and life's crazy. That was basically what we talked about,

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and then we kind of touched out
her family life a little bit,

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so I thing told me her brothers
in the military super proud of him.

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Older sister kind of lost touch because
the sister had a baby. So it

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was crazy. In the little seguae
of time that we had together, I

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really felt like I got a window
into her life. Amanda class was vibrant,

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attractive, charmingly quirky, and extremely
personable. She was a free spirit,

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a modern day hippie, perhaps born
in the wrong era. Amanda was

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also determined to live her life in
her own way and was actively doing all

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the responsible things needed to make the
lifestyle that she wanted a reality. During

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her visit to Amanda's apartment, Row
was a bit surprised by how open Amanda

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was with her, but Kiro was
also impressed by it, and she welcomed

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their overt and intimate conversation. At
some point during the visit, Amanda got

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a bizarre and frankly pretty haunting phone
call, but Amanda handled it in typical

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Amanda fashion. She received a phone
call, didn't know what was, didn't

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know the number. Hello, just
bubbling old Amanda. How's it going.

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I can hear you breathing. You're
not saying anything, just like being a

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goofball. Literally just given whoever it
was just to make them feel like a

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weird ow, I guess, and
she's like, well, what are you

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doing? And then like hung on
bath the phone, and then she kind

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of talked to me a little bit
about, Yeah, I kind of sometimes

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get these weird calls from my stalker. Apparently Amanda had a stalker who would

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frequently call her but never said a
word and only breathed heavily and Amanda before

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abruptly hanging up. I used to
think that kind of thing was an eighties

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TV trope that didn't really happen,
But I guess I was wrong. It

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was pretty creepy stuff, but every
time it happened, Amanda shrugged it off

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and went about her merry way.
Perhaps even more frightening, Amanda had recently

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returned from a two day music festival, and when she arrived back home,

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she found that her apartment had been
broken into and burglarized. Did she express

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any any problems at her apartment there
had been a previous break in. I

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really can't recall that, but I
know for a fact that the apartment had

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been broken into, buffore and they
did take lead. One of the most

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notable things about this break in was
that not much was taken. Aside from

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a few mostly cheap items. The
burglar only stole Amanda's secret stash of marijuana,

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and they seemed to know exactly where
to find it. This suggested that

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the thief had likely been inside Amanda's
apartment before, and that they weren't some

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random person off the street. They
were probably someone that Amanda knew, and

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probably someone that Amanda considered to be
a friend. In any case, after

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Amanda told Cairo about her new boyfriend, her family, her stalker, and

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the recent break in, Kiro left, leaving Amanda plenty of time to get

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ready for work. When I left, she was getting ready for work.

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She didn't tell me she had plans
in between, but there was enough time

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for her to do whatever, Like, there was definitely somewhere to pick her

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up, to her to go somewhere. It was early enough that she could

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have done something before work. So
what do you mean by getting ready for

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work? What exactly? What was
she doing? Nothing, just daid letting

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me know that she had to start
getting ready for work. I think the

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mental preparedness that you give yourself.
Although Amanda had her own place, she

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didn't have a car and would usually
depend on her friends to drive her to

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work. For the past four or
five days, Amanda's boyfriend Seth had been

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giving her the rides that she needed. So you say you've known Amanda for

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a week, nor her a week
her last Friday? I've known her like

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she's at when the school with her
and everything. I just never even never

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hung out, hung out. I
guess I hunt for the first time,

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right. Yes, Seth and Amanda
went to high school together, but they

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didn't really start dating or really didn't
know much about each other until well after

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graduation. In fact, when Seth
was questioned by the police, he had

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only been dating Amanda for about a
week. She slept at a Manda's last

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night. Yes, did you say
the whole night at our house? Last

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night? She gets out of work
eleven, two o'clock at night? Any

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problems last night at all? I
was so happy. So you guys just

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talked last night? What do you
mean, did you guys stay up a

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while or did you go right there
like the right a bit had sex in

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to bed. According to Seth,
on August twenty fifth, twenty eleven,

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he slept at Amanda's apartment just as
he had done the last few nights.

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The next morning, Seth and Amanda
woke up, had sex and took a

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shower together. Then Seth headed off
to work. Would you work here today

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Springfield park side? Would you do
there? Uthing? Did you do routing?

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Yeah? What time did you work
today? They had left her house

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at like eight thirty swelling. The
typical routine for Seth and Amanda, or

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at least the brief routine that they
seemed to have established in the last week

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or so, was that Seth would
go to work in the morning, and

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when he was finished with a shift, he would return to Amanda's apartment to

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take her to work. Then,
after Amanda finished her workshift, Seth would

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pick her up and they would go
back to Amanda's apartment. On this particular

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day, however, Seth called Amanda
to let her know that he would not

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be able to get her to work
on time. When the last time he

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talked her one o'clock. He talked
to her every day, everyday her every

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day, every time after working,
were there and bring her to work and

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we can pick her up on her
sleep together. How did it come to

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to mark through at four o'clock?
How did it come to you talked to

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her at four o'clock Oliday and to
tell her I was regulate. Seth had

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to work late, which meant that
Amanda would need to find a ride to

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the Friendli's restaurant with someone else.
According to Seth, Amanda told him that

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she was able to find someone who
could give her a left, and Seth

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promised to visit Amanda at her job
after he got off. To Seth's surprise,

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when he arrived at Friendlies later that
evening, Amanda wasn't there. Because

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so you went to Amanda's work,
frially, did you expect to see her

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there? Yeah, that's why I
just went in. I sat down and

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then I texted her. I was
like, I'm at the front desk and

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I didn't see her. I adn't
kind of response, and I asked one

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of her friends that I could I
go there and pick her up. And

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one of the kids that works with
her, I had talked to you him,

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and I was like, where demand
that you should an hour and a

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half fat? So the kids said
he was an hour a fleet. Would

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you do? I left before he
left? You called her? You called

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her a text me and I walked
way back to my car. I texted

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her and see where are you?
And I tried calling her a couple of

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times. She didn't answer again.
Amanda was an especially responsible young woman.

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For her to not show up to
work was pretty out of character. Despite

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00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:56,200
this, Seth claimed that he didn't
immediately become concerned. Instead, he assumed

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00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:02,079
that Amanda had simply fallen asleep and
was missing her work shift by accident.

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00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,759
Seth also claimed that he went to
his grandma's house to pick up some fresh

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00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:11,920
clothes and drove to Amanda's apartment,
where he planned to wake Amanda up and

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00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,480
take a shower. She wasn't at
work, so I figured maybe you know,

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00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:19,720
she wasn't better, so maybe she'd
fall asleep and she's sleeping on That's

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00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,359
why I went that's where house to
see if she was pounded on the door

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00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,599
from Ante and I realized her window
was pretty what part of the window was

215
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,319
right in the center moment there was
like a little thinking through a rock,

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00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,599
maybe that being through it. When
Seth arrived at Amanda's apartment, he supposedly

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00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,440
knocked a few times and didn't get
a response. He then noticed that Amanda's

218
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,920
front window was broken, so Seth
decided to enter her apartment. According to

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00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,359
Seth, Amanda's front door was locked, but the lock itself was pretty flimsy,

220
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:59,519
and anyone with even a small incentive
to break in could easily bypass it

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00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:06,240
by sliding something into the doorframe,
which is exactly what Seth claimed that he

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00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,720
did. You walk into that little
entryway. What do you see when you

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00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:11,640
first walk in there? As soon
as I walked in, the cat,

224
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:17,400
the cat walked outside. There's go
away into the kitchen. She walked into

225
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,279
the kitchen. What do you see
when you walk into the kitchen? I

226
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,680
saw red? What do you mean? You saw red? Red all over

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00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:29,759
the floor? Her foot? So
you went in the kitchen as soon as

228
00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:32,640
you came in, so red all
over the flour? Is that blood you

229
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,480
saw? She was like, fro
did you walk into the kitchen when you

230
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:47,400
saw this? The blood on the
floor? Steward? She was pretty getting

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00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:55,519
her So she was laying there on
the ground, So throw the sloplay.

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00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,440
Seth told the police that when he
walked into a man his kitchen, he

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00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:06,920
learned why Amanda had not shown up
to work. According to him, he

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00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:11,440
found Amanda on the floor, lying
in a pool of her own blood,

235
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:19,079
Her throat was slit and she was
completely unresponsive. Now, you said that

236
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,319
you checked to see how she was
treating. How did you do that?

237
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:29,240
I said? You guys says the
build just if he was moving. They

238
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,000
tried blowing into a mother bloods and
it's kind of blew it through it.

239
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:48,359
How long did you stay next to
her? As it's okay, take a

240
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,799
minute, take a minute if you
need it. Through his sobbing, Seth

241
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,480
explained that he tried to render first
aid to Amanda and performed CPR, but

242
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:04,799
when blew into her mouth, his
breaths came back at him through the open

243
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:11,240
slit on her throat. There was
nothing that Seth or anyone could do for

244
00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:18,440
Amanda. She had been brutally stabbed
to death and had likely been dead for

245
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:25,839
several hours before Seth founder. After
finding Amanda's body, Seth called nine one

246
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,039
one. When the police arrived,
they found Seth on Amanda's front porch.

247
00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:37,319
He was sobbing and lying in a
fetal position. They then found Amanda's butchered

248
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:44,960
body on the kitchen floor of her
apartment. What followed was an intense and

249
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:52,240
often frustrating murder investigation that led homicide
detectives to follow several leads, some of

250
00:21:52,319 --> 00:22:00,279
which involved a new boyfriend, an
angry ex boyfriend, and even a jealous

251
00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:07,839
ex girlfriend. In the end,
the brutal slaying of Amanda Plas would go

252
00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:15,720
unresolved for two years, but eventually
a hidden clue inside Amanda's apartment would lead

253
00:22:15,799 --> 00:23:00,720
detectives to a culprit that no one
ever suspected. On the night of August

254
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,960
twenty sixth, twenty eleven, twenty
year old Amanda Plass was found stabbed to

255
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:11,599
death on the kitchen floor of her
apartment. Amanda lived by herself in Chiapee,

256
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:17,519
Massachusetts, and supposedly her body had
been discovered by her new boyfriend Seth

257
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:23,440
after Seth first went to her job
at a local friendly's restaurant and couldn't find

258
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:30,960
her. Amanda's immediate family members included
her mom, her dad, her older

259
00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:36,759
sister, and a younger brother.
As to be expected, when news of

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00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:42,920
Amanda's murder reached her family, Amanda's
mom took it especially hard to know her

261
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:52,759
was to love her her month and
you were forever friend. She would get

262
00:23:52,839 --> 00:24:00,160
you Where would you forget her?
Crazy curly hair started where you are?

263
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,880
Soon after Amanda's death, her family
organized a large vigil and funeral in her

264
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:15,799
honor. Meanwhile, the Chickapee Police
Department continued investigating the crime, and the

265
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:22,599
first person they focused on, of
course, was Amanda's boyfriend, twenty year

266
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,480
old Seth Greene. Now, not
that one. What else did you see

267
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,680
about the scene? Anything unusual,
because you know, we only see the

268
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:36,279
work. The blood was smeared around
a little bit. She tried to cry,

269
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,480
slip over to the fridge. They
didn't looking through the struggle. Don't

270
00:24:40,519 --> 00:24:44,720
know how they got in, like, kn't understanding the doors locked. When

271
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:49,559
detectives processed the crime scene, they
found several things of note. First,

272
00:24:51,079 --> 00:24:53,759
when Amanda was found, she was
wearing a bra, her work pants,

273
00:24:55,079 --> 00:25:00,200
and socks. She was clearly in
the process of getting ready for work when

274
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,160
the murder happened. And next to
Amanda's body was a bloody shoeprint that must

275
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,240
have been left by the killer because
Amanda wasn't wearing shoes. Based on their

276
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:17,359
analysis of the shoeprint, the police
determined that the killer was either a woman

277
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,240
that wore a size nine or a
man that wore a size seven. Also,

278
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:26,880
the police found that one of Amanda's
front windows had been broken, but

279
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:32,599
they later determined that this was not
how the killer gained entry into the home,

280
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:37,480
because the window had been broken from
the inside. More than likely the

281
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,559
killer came in through the front door
by picking its flimsy lock, the back

282
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,039
door, which was found unlocked,
or Amanda had simply invited them in.

283
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:56,200
Finally, and certainly most glaringly,
this murder was extremely brutal. A large

284
00:25:56,319 --> 00:26:02,960
dent was found on Amanda's refrigerator,
which almost certainly happened during the struggle.

285
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:08,599
Amanda fought for her life, but
she was overpowered, and the dent on

286
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:15,279
the fridge was made by Amanda's head
when she was thrown into it. Also,

287
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,759
Amanda was found lying in a pool
of her own blood and had basically

288
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:25,440
been butchered to death with a very
sharp knife. She had fifteen knife wounds

289
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,079
on her body, seven of which
could have been fatal, and one of

290
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,960
which was a long, deep slit
across her throat. Based on this,

291
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:41,880
and based on the fact that nothing
appeared to be stolen, the police theorized

292
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:49,039
that this was not some random home
invasion or burglary. Someone was very angry,

293
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:56,319
someone handed out for Amanda and more
than likely it was someone that Amanda

294
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,440
knew. Is there anything that you
could think of it you didn't all that

295
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:04,839
happened today? Any problems with you
in a man at all? Amazing?

296
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:07,799
I fucking loans or so? Like
I met her like a week ago,

297
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,839
and I was already falling with her, like that's like on her, like

298
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:17,599
you've had such a good time together. Like. According to Seth, his

299
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,400
and Amanda's relationship was at an early
stage where everything was all sunshine and butterflies.

300
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,519
They had just started to get to
know each other, and we're quickly

301
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,920
falling in love. Here's the problem
I have. You say that you just

302
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,759
met her a week ago whenever we
ask a question like, oh I hardly

303
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:36,640
New Orleans or will you go?
But then on the other hand, you

304
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,839
tell us that you loved her.
Yeah, So I mean I just want

305
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,640
is it well, you can't that
that doesn't happen he's unheard of too,

306
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:48,480
or like I don't know. I
mean he was an amazing girl like I.

307
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,599
So you guys have connected with anyone
like I connected with her like,

308
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,920
and I'm pretty sure she felt the
same way. Throughout this interview with Seth,

309
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,119
the detectives frequently stepped out of the
interrogation room, leaving Seth alone,

310
00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:26,720
and every time they did, Seth
sobbed uncontrollably. Oh fuck the fuck.

311
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:37,400
Fuck. Seth was clearly emotional,
but the detectives weren't convinced that his tears

312
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,640
were genuine, given that he had
only known Amanda for a week. His

313
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:49,759
tearful sobs seemed over the top and
manufactured. Either that or Seth wasn't crying

314
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:56,799
for Amanda. Maybe he was just
crying for himself. Something else that bothered

315
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:03,720
detectives was Seth's actions after he had
discovered Amanda's body. Seth claimed that he

316
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:07,000
tried to perform CPR on Amanda,
and when that didn't work, he called

317
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,680
nine one one. So far,
so good. But then as he was

318
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,440
on the phone with a nine one
one operator, Seth took the time to

319
00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:23,519
hide some marijuana pipes that were lying
around the apartment. There's like pride four

320
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:26,200
on the table. Hey, let
me ask you a question. You know,

321
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,599
if if my wife, girlfriend wherever
was in there, yeah, throw

322
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,640
the slit. One of the last
things I would worry about is clean it

323
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:38,640
up. Why did you take the
time to do that? I would have

324
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:42,519
streaking out would he want me to
do? You know, I don't know.

325
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,000
I don't know what the fuck to
do. And you take the time

326
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,839
to pick up four little balls,
I mean nothing when you know that your

327
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,759
girl that you love is dead.
I guess yeah. Seth's explanation for hiding

328
00:29:52,839 --> 00:30:00,720
weed paraphernalia amidst a brutal homicide was
that he was just accustomed hiding that kind

329
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,480
of stuff anytime there was a chance
that cops might show up. He claimed

330
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:10,799
he was operating on pure instinct,
which I guess kind of makes sense.

331
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,039
Even so, it is a strange
thing to do when the woman you supposedly

332
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,519
love is lying in a pool of
her own blood just a few feet away.

333
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Something else that caught the attention of
detectives was the blood they noticed on

334
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:30,519
Seth's pants, along with what appeared
to be a deep cut on his right

335
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:37,160
hand. How did you blake it
on your pants? Her unnail next to

336
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:48,559
her? Who told you right here? I guess don't pull Okay, it's

337
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:52,200
got dirting it from your roof into
So it's not he's just cutting myself.

338
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,880
You're stabbing her or something. It's
not like I just cut myself, stabbing

339
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,480
her or something. I don't know
if that's what you're referring to. I

340
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,240
saw him ye. Seth claimed that
he got blood on his pants when he

341
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:08,359
knelt next to Amanda's body, and
that the cut on his hand was work

342
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:15,440
related. Again, this all made
sense and was pretty probable, but then

343
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:21,720
came the inevitable line of questioning about
where Seth was when Amanda was killed,

344
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:27,279
and Seth Salibi was more than just
a little suspect. They stand the whole

345
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:33,720
on the job all day. You
get materials a couple of times. What

346
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,079
time did you lead to at the
materials? There was a few time to

347
00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:42,640
they have us like three times.
You're driving a van nowhere else would you

348
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,839
Okay, you go to the you
pick up the stuff, you go back

349
00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:51,720
to the job. Do you stop
anywhere after getting the revi? Yeah,

350
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,559
went back to the job, didn't
seers. According to Seth, he was

351
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,960
working the entire day, but as
a roofer, some of his responsibilities included

352
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:06,519
driving his work van to various places
to pick up supplies. Seth admitted that

353
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,599
he had made some of these supply
runs by himself, which meant no one

354
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,599
could vouch for his exact whereabouts throughout
the day. Even worse, some of

355
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,279
his travel put him within walking distance
of Amanda's apartment. You're pretty close to

356
00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:22,680
home at that point, were you. Yeah, that's right next train your

357
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,200
house, little hand see or two
when I go and they stopped at their

358
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,160
house, said something coming. You
do when you go to give materia,

359
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:32,720
you just stop at the house really
quick to share it from Noll And just

360
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:37,519
happened that a couple of times.
So between Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday Thursday,

361
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:39,559
No, four days when you're making
deliveries, two of those days you

362
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:45,720
stop by the place, right,
Why why don't you go by today because

363
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,640
you're finishing up the job And they
rushed me. In life, they've been

364
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,400
getting pissed at me because they've been
coming in late and I take forever when

365
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,720
they go polices, you don't bitch
at me for that. Seth told detectives

366
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:05,920
that during his supply runs he would
sometimes stop at Amanda's apartment to say hi,

367
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,680
but on the day of the murder, he coincidentally decided against it,

368
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:15,920
mainly because his boss had recently given
him shit for taking too long. Once

369
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:23,079
again, Seth had an explanation that
made sense and afforded him plausible deniability at

370
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,839
some point today when you were banking
those deliveries, you took your car.

371
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,880
No, your car was at our
apartment, did I? Yeah? No,

372
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,359
it wasn't. It wasn't. No, you sure positive you didn't take

373
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,720
your car at all. Your car
stayed at the job site. I think

374
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:45,960
car was not at that apartment.
It was there at nine this morning before

375
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,440
I left. Yeah, someone thought
they saw your car at the apartment.

376
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,480
It wasn't. You didn't go there
at it did not go there at all

377
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,920
time. Did you do anything that
hurder? No? I would never sign

378
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,359
anybody, just like, fucking my
god friend just got murdered, and you're

379
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:07,039
fucking blaming me for a dude holding
me here? What the fuck? Even

380
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,840
after detectives pressed him, Seth maintained
that he never went to Amanda's apartment during

381
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,199
his work shift, and as his
interview came to an end, the cops

382
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,039
did what they usually do in this
kind of situation. They asked Seth what

383
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,760
he thought had happened. Well,
do you think happened to her? I

384
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:34,480
don't know. You don't fucking happy
than I've made her ex boyfriend's band that

385
00:34:34,559 --> 00:34:38,360
she's talking to me, She said. Her ex boyfriend was abusive. She's

386
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,880
such a fucking happy earl. I
don't see you're having problems with done anything

387
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,800
you can think of with her boyfriend. Before Amanda's started dating Seth, she

388
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,800
was seeing one of her co workers, twenty one year old Jesse Columbie.

389
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:59,199
Jesse worked with Amanda at Friendly's,
and even though they had hooked up,

390
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,480
they never cleared themselves to be boyfriend
and girlfriend. They had a short fling

391
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:09,639
and Amanda didn't seem very interested in
pursuing things beyond that. Jesse, however,

392
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,519
clearly wanted something more. You told
us that you guys have relationship,

393
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,960
yes, and it wasn't serious,
so to speak, so it kind of

394
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,199
broke off. Yeah, but we
also found out you have been sitting a

395
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,599
lot of text messages this past weekend, correct, Yeah, I texted her.

396
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,280
She texted me on Thursday, just
past Thursday. Yeah, the DIA

397
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,800
senior at work. Okay, yep, so on, and we didn't tell

398
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,360
us about that, so one I
thought I did, said that was the

399
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,679
last time I talked to us on
Thursday, Yeah, the day before she

400
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,360
died. Right. Yeah. During
Jesse's police interview, there are a few

401
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,800
moments where he suspiciously seems to pass
the buck. In contrast to Seth's police

402
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:00,760
interview, Jesse didn't need to be
prompted or asked what he thought happened to

403
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,599
Amanda. Instead, he went out
of his way to offer up a few

404
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,000
theories. And I don't know if
I told you about I tell you guys

405
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,159
about that name that that kid wrote
on that thing, like a dry erase

406
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,519
board in her apartment. She thought
like her apartment got like broken into and

407
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:22,679
they stole like heavy stuff, like
and stuff. She thought it was some

408
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,920
kids that she had met and bought
ed off on, some little Puerto Rican

409
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:30,320
kid. He's got to live like
somewhere within like two second walk there.

410
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:34,880
It was that I don't know his
name. His name was written down,

411
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,360
That's all I know. I can't
think of enough. I think it begins

412
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,119
with a D. The D name
that Jesse mentioned was in reference to something

413
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:47,480
that was written on a dry erase
board in Amanda's apartment. Scrawled in haphazard

414
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:54,280
writing next to some of Amanda's doodling
was a sentence. It read, Dennis

415
00:36:54,719 --> 00:37:05,159
was here eight dash eleven dash eleven. The date next to Dennis's name was

416
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:12,280
only two weeks before Amanda was killed. Eventually police learned that this Dennis person

417
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:16,360
was Amanda's pot dealer. Where did
you meet her? I met her by

418
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:30,199
family dollar in Teshi and young I
had like non owner before before she was

419
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,000
killed. You met her at one
time? Oh, by a family dollars.

420
00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:37,719
Yeah. It was been to her
apartments, like up the stairs and

421
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,920
that's about it. On the porch, Dennis admitted that he supplied Amanda with

422
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:51,440
weed and that he had been to
her apartment once. Dennis explained that when

423
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,920
he went there, he brought along
his girlfriend. They met up with Amanda

424
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,840
and smoked weed on her back porch. According to Dennis, his girlfriend wasn't

425
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:07,360
exactly thrilled that Dennis had made a
new female friend, and not long after

426
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:13,199
she was introduced to Amanda, she
ended their relationship. How long did you

427
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,840
stay with him? I got him
back, but the fight started getting more

428
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,480
like more constant, and then that's
when I got tired of it and I

429
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:27,880
ended up getting arrested for matter against
him when I hit him with the bat.

430
00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:32,320
Dennis and his then girlfriend Crystal lived
together in a small house just two

431
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,039
blocks from Amanda's apartment, and their
relationship wasn't anything to write home about.

432
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:43,000
They were known to argue a lot, and they had serious trust issues,

433
00:38:43,559 --> 00:38:49,639
and after Crystal met Amanda, things
turned violent. Crystal attacked Dennis with a

434
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:55,280
baseball bat and stabbed him in the
chest. My girlfriend would at letter knife,

435
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,320
Well, Sammy would have fuck motor
knife. Are you fucking kidding me?

436
00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:02,880
The way giving the money to go
out and drink? Yeah, so

437
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:07,679
they come the file charges. Are
that about it? Yeah? So a

438
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,639
mattery charges with badly weapons and you
know me, we're bat on my head.

439
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,159
Given that Crystal had a proclivity to
solve her problems with violence, and

440
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:22,159
that one of her violent methods of
choice was stabbing, the police wondered if

441
00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:29,000
Amanda's murderer wasn't the result of some
angry boyfriend or ex boyfriend. Maybe Amanda

442
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:37,840
was killed by someone else's jealous girlfriend. Maybe just maybe the killer was a

443
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,760
woman. I know you had trust
issues, but you had a problem with

444
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:46,000
him. Borned by Amanda's hostile I
didn't even know where she lived, her,

445
00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:49,920
who she was, that you met
Amanda's who get it? Yes,

446
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:53,119
that one time I went to her
and that's the only time I've seen her

447
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:59,880
as despite her recent breakup, with
Dennis. Crystal claimed that she didn't have

448
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:05,360
any problems with Amanda and that she
had never gone back to Amanda's apartment after

449
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,159
first meeting her. For police,
the list of potential suspects was getting longer,

450
00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:16,559
and while they left all options open, the detectives refocus their attention on

451
00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:25,000
Amanda's coworker and x fling, Jesse
Colombie. According to Jesse, the last

452
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:30,920
time he saw and spoke with Amanda
was the day before she died. Do

453
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,039
you actually talked to her that day? You would guys work together that Thursday?

454
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,400
Yeah, I talked to her for
like a minute you were between it,

455
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,159
would you guys talk? Well,
not really, she would just kind

456
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:45,599
of make falling away. I Mean, here's the thing I'm curious about,

457
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:49,440
because that's not what we heard.
We heard that Cheths went in there gave

458
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,199
her a kiss that made you want
to call them there for like a while.

459
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:58,039
So that was in there for like
a good forty though. You did

460
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:00,039
see Septom into Thursday, right,
Yes, and he did kiss. He

461
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:04,039
did kiss a man in front of
you and me thought I've seen I never

462
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,960
said that, well, I never
seen I've never seen them physically kiss,

463
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,360
seeing them talking. It didn't bother
me. I was talking to Seth.

464
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,119
Did you know that her and sets
were together? Yeah. Jesse claimed that

465
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:22,960
Amanda's new relationship with Seth didn't bother
him, but the text messages that he

466
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:28,880
sent Amanda suggested otherwise. When did
you talk for again or you would you

467
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,400
text mess here or would you had
to texted her because so as you left

468
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,559
for her? Yeah, would you
text her? I asked her? She

469
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:38,639
asked me if she wanted her shirt. She wanted her shirt sack. Then

470
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:42,199
I asked if she wanted to brace
her back in staid I could have gave

471
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,119
it to her because I was wearing
it, and she said keep it silate

472
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:47,079
to give. She was almost like, you guys are breaking up? Yeah,

473
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:50,880
we were like done talking. Was
there any anger in the text?

474
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,880
Not in that text, I mean
blues, but there was some anger and

475
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,039
some all the text, weren't they? Yeah. The weekend before Amanda decided

476
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:01,920
to call it quits with Jesse,
she had gone to a music festival with

477
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,280
a few friends, and it was
at this festival that she and Seth hooked

478
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:14,400
up for the first time. During
and after the festival, Amanda didn't respond

479
00:42:14,519 --> 00:42:20,440
to many of Jesse's text messages.
Needless to say, Jesse wasn't thrilled that

480
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:24,800
Amanda was suddenly giving him the cold
shoulder, Like we were talking and she

481
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:28,760
just didn't talk to me for a
few days, and I just wondering what

482
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,840
was going on, but she didn't
tell me, so she wouldn't tell you

483
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,199
what, like, what was going
on while she really talking to me?

484
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,960
How many texts you think you sent
her? Good amount? What's a good

485
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:50,639
amount? Twenty twenty unanswered texts?
Twenty good god Fellas a little advice,

486
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:57,360
if a woman says no, it
means no. If she doesn't respond to

487
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,519
you after a second or third text, that's probably a pretty good sign that

488
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:08,480
you should just move on. Otherwise
you start looking a little desperate and quite

489
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:14,719
frankly pathetic. And if you go
anywhere beyond five or six texts, well,

490
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:22,840
let's just say you look like a
psychopath. This advice isn't exclusively to

491
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:28,719
men, by the way, Ladies, the same holds true for you in

492
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,599
any case. Jesse was seemingly hell
bent on pursuing a relationship with Amanda,

493
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,480
whether she wanted one or not.
He was infatuated by her, But Amanda

494
00:43:40,519 --> 00:43:46,159
just wasn't interested. For police,
Jesse seemed to have a motive to commit

495
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:52,440
murder, and that motive was perfectly
in line with their crime scene. Remember,

496
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:59,840
the murder of Amanda Plass was extremely
bloody and brutal. The killer wasn't

497
00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:06,199
angry, they were completely enraged.
Not only did Jesse have a reason to

498
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,519
be enraged, but he also might
have had a reason to hide evidence,

499
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:16,360
specifically his unanswered texts to Amanda.
Would you do with those text messages that

500
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,599
you text? There? You delete
them? All texts are deleted, But

501
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:27,159
why did you delete yours? Thing
needs to be deleted and need to be

502
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,480
delut You know I had to delete
message. I got all kinds of mess

503
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:34,639
in my phone. I'm just asking
why did you delete a message? I

504
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,400
told you why because I didn't be
deleted, so I deleted them. I

505
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:39,840
just didn't want to. First of
all, I didn't want to look at

506
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,360
any conversation to me and her,
just because it made me sad. I

507
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,719
do you even think about her?
Why? Is it because she's murdered.

508
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,119
I didn't even want to have to
look at him. Everything reminds me of

509
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:57,920
her. On top of the fact
that Amanda wasn't responding to Jesse, which

510
00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:02,159
by itself was making Jesse pretty upset. He had to learn about Amanda's new

511
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:07,800
relationship with Seth on Facebook. Now, were you upset that she wasn't responding

512
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,480
to you? Or were you upset
that Seth was hooking up with her?

513
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,840
I was upset that she wasn't responding
to me, So yeah, I texted

514
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,760
her one time about Seth And what
did you say in that text? And

515
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,599
I told her I was like,
you and Seth, that's cute. Well,

516
00:45:22,679 --> 00:45:25,039
let me ask you this, when
did you know that her and Seth

517
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:30,039
became a couple. I've seen it
on Facebook? When was that? All?

518
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:35,880
Okay, sure, give me a
guess. Few days before last scene?

519
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,960
He so that was this past week? Thursday said Thursday? Oh yeah,

520
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,440
well that was work? Yeah so
yeah, yeah, so it was

521
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,159
like three days before he died,
right, likes four days. Jesse learned

522
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:53,679
that Amanda was dating Seth just days
before Amanda was killed, and after the

523
00:45:53,760 --> 00:46:00,519
murder happened, Jesse stayed pretty far
away from anything having to do Amanda.

524
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:07,199
How did you finally find out that
she something happened to him? From Alison?

525
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:13,280
She called me and told me that
someone broken and she's not Did she

526
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,400
say how she's done with us anymore? Do you know now how she's done

527
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:23,199
with us? Now? I don't
know specifics, So you, to this

528
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:30,840
day you still don't know how she
died. Jesse was first interviewed by police

529
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:36,280
four days after Amanda was killed,
and he claimed that over the course of

530
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,519
those four days he never took the
time to find out exactly how Amanda was

531
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:45,320
killed. I find that very hard
to believe that you have no idea how

532
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:50,199
she died when everybody's talking about it
on the news show. I haven't listened

533
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:53,960
to anything. I haven't even read
the paper fok on Facebook, I'm not

534
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:59,199
talking about her, but I haven't
heard people talking about physically how what happened.

535
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,320
Now this you were so much in
love with her, but you sent

536
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,880
all those texts, right, you
said all those texts. Next thing you

537
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,599
know, you don't even you don't
even know how she died. I don't

538
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,480
know how she died. That would
be a normal response wanting to know how

539
00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:15,679
she died. I would you hear
about a girl you liked? Would you

540
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,960
want to hear about how she was
murdered? Absolutely? Not only had Jesse

541
00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:24,880
supposedly made no effort to seek out
the details of Amanda's death, but he

542
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:31,039
was also conspicuous by his absence during
the large vigil that was held in Amanda's

543
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:36,039
honor. You know, the wink
was yesterday, right, Why didn't you

544
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:37,920
go to Amanda's week? I was
planning, I don't going. I was

545
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,960
gonna go with my friend Connor,
but then my mom told me it wasn't

546
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,159
a good idea. I want to
let me go. Why is it because

547
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,320
just the way people have been talking, you know what I mean? She

548
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,440
didn't want there like someone to be
pissed off, and like she starts on

549
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,000
seeing during her knowing her weight,
just like they had done with Seth.

550
00:47:54,679 --> 00:48:01,000
Detectives eventually transitioned into a line of
questioning about Jesse's whereabouts on the day that

551
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:06,960
Amanda was killed. According to Jesse, he was home most of the day

552
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,119
and only left his house to pick
up his paycheck from friendlies. You said

553
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:15,199
your parents were out of town,
right, Yeah, they're on the Connecticut

554
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,119
River. Did you stay home all
day? Also? The long time I

555
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:23,239
really left was to go to the
friendlies. So you took the collo psychiloside

556
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,960
to the friendlies to get your check? Correct, then you went straight home

557
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,960
on the day that Amanda was killed. Jesse's parents were out of town,

558
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:39,119
which left very few people to vouch
for his whereabouts, and after doing a

559
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:45,079
little digging into his story, the
police learned that Jesse hadn't really been entirely

560
00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:51,719
truthful about where he had gone that
day. Jesse, we interviewed you twice,

561
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:58,000
ord, you weren't completely truthful as
correct. A few days after Jesse's

562
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:04,480
first interviews with detectives, Jesse returned
to the interrogation room for a third and

563
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:15,119
final interview. During this interrogation,
Jesse came clean and admitted that he had

564
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:47,199
been lying all along. In late
August and early September of twenty eleven,

565
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:53,519
twenty one year old Jesse Columbia was
questioned several times by Chickapee, Massachusetts homicide

566
00:49:53,559 --> 00:50:00,000
detectives about the brutal murder of Jesse's
co worker and ex fling, twenty year

567
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:07,519
old Amanda Plas. Amanda was stabbed
to death in the kitchen of her apartment,

568
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:12,559
and leading up to her death,
Jesse had demonstrated in more ways than

569
00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:16,199
one, and he was upset with
Amanda because she clearly didn't want to pursue

570
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:22,079
a relationship with him. In fact, she had even started dating someone else,

571
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:29,320
and Jesse learned about this new relationship
on Facebook just days before Amanda was

572
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,880
killed. During his first two police
interviews, Jesse claimed that on the day

573
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,199
of Amanda's murder, he was at
home and only left his house once to

574
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:45,280
pick up his paycheck. But during
his third interview, Jesse admitted that he

575
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,239
hadn't entirely been honest about his whereabouts
that day. There was a reason why

576
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,119
you weren't truthful was and I was
just scared because I told you guys that

577
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:57,920
I didn't drive my car, and
then when we got into the story,

578
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,800
I remembered it took my cart of
general. I didn't want to go back

579
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:06,119
my word. I was scared.
In his new and revised version of where

580
00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:09,880
he was on the day of the
murder, Jesse told police that he not

581
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:14,760
only went to his job to pick
up his paycheck, but that he also

582
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:20,159
went to a liquor store to cash
that paycheck. On its face, this

583
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,159
seemed like a pointless and frankly pretty
stupid thing to lie about, But there

584
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,280
was a reason that Jesse had kept
this information from police. So what did

585
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:36,360
you do? With that and went
back home and then took by a couple

586
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:40,079
of minutes later took my car.
I am this kid. Fat Boy was

587
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:45,440
Fat Boy's real name, totally honest. I do not know why you meeting

588
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,760
him? Huh why you meeting him? I gotta pill. Jesse claimed that

589
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,280
when Amanda was murdered, he was
busy cashing his paycheck so that he could

590
00:51:55,320 --> 00:52:00,519
meet up with his drug dealer to
buy drugs. He also claim that after

591
00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:05,920
he purchased those drugs, he went
home and got high. At this point

592
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,760
in the investigation, the police had
a pretty good idea of the exact hour

593
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:15,280
that Amanda was killed. After Amanda's
new boyfriend Seth called Amanda to let her

594
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,760
know that he would be working late
and wouldn't be able to drive Amanda to

595
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,400
her job, Amanda phoned her friend
Mercedes, and Mercedes agreed to give her

596
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:29,480
a lift. About an hour or
so later, at four PM, one

597
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:35,559
of Amanda's neighbors saw Amanda outside her
apartment getting her mail. Then, at

598
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:39,440
five pm, Mercedes arrived at the
apartment to drive Amanda to work, but

599
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:45,960
Amanda never came outside, and after
honking her horn and waiting for about fifteen

600
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:52,760
minutes, Mercedes simply drove away.
This chain of events told the police that

601
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:59,079
Amanda must have been killed between four
and five pm that day. The surveillance

602
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:04,280
camera at the liquor store where Jesse
cashed his paycheck captured Jesse doing exactly what

603
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,519
he said he did. At this
time, there was simply no way that

604
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:15,559
Jesse could have killed Amanda because he
wasn't anywhere near her apartment when she died.

605
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:20,880
Even though Jesse had a strong motive
for murder, he was in the

606
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,480
clear. This, of course,
was good news for him, but bad

607
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:30,159
news for detectives. While they still
had a long list of potential suspects,

608
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:37,960
all their evidence was circumstantial and certainly
not enough to levy charges against anyone.

609
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:44,239
With nowhere else to turn and seemingly
no one left to interview, the Amanda

610
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:52,920
Plas murder investigation went cold, and
it remained cold for two years. Over

611
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:59,119
the course of those two years,
some occasional tips filtered into the Chickapee Police

612
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:04,119
department, one of which was the
bizarre nine one one call that you heard

613
00:54:04,159 --> 00:54:08,320
at the start of the show.
The police recorded, would I get in

614
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:13,519
trouble for turning over a friend?
Okay? What's the crime that was committed?

615
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,719
They said they killed somebody a couple
of years ago, and then once

616
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:22,559
she turned them down because he trying
to get into it with her, he's

617
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:24,880
gotten mavin chapter the girl. What
did you say? In her name?

618
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:34,400
One Amanda? Unfortunately, this nine
one one call, along with all the

619
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,079
other tips that the police received,
turned out to be bogus dead ends.

620
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:45,519
Amanda's killer had seemingly gotten away with
murder, But in late twenty thirteen,

621
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,760
the lead detective in this case sat
down to review it again, and that

622
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:59,719
file included crime scene photos. When
the detective looked over the photographs, some

623
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:06,440
thing stood out at him and he
was once again reminded of the handwritten words

624
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:15,199
on Amanda's whiteboard. A single sentence
was haphazardly written next to Amanda's handwritten doodles.

625
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:23,079
It read, Dennis was here eight
eleven eleven. Twenty two year old

626
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:30,440
Dennis Rosa Roman was Amanda's pot dealer, and with nowhere else to turn and

627
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:36,599
nothing to lose, the detective decided
to track Dennis down. The detective learned

628
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:43,719
that shortly after Amanda's death, Dennis
relocated to a neighboring town and police caught

629
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:49,280
up with him just outside his new
home. When detectives approached Dennis and started

630
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,880
asking questions about Amanda, Dennis appeared
nervous and said that he was too busy

631
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:59,199
to talk. The cops let him
go, but not before giving him their

632
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:04,000
contact and though a few days later, Dennis called the detective in a panic

633
00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:08,719
and explained that he had something very
important to tell police. You say,

634
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:13,960
you really need to talk to the
day. Yeah, like seriously, the

635
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:16,159
day that this all happened. What
happened that day? I went, I

636
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:21,719
brought her some Wayne she'd call you
dating. Yeah, she called me that

637
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,159
day and she called me. She
said, yo, he need me a

638
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:29,119
dime bag and want to her house. Stopped off Harryson guy arguing with her

639
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:31,320
something about money. So you heard
this coming from Manda's apartment. Like I

640
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,760
was just I was just hitting.
I was just hitting the third floor and

641
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,119
a horse and I'm like, I
was own my ear and I'm like,

642
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,159
okay, I'm listening to this guys
like I want my money. I didn't

643
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:45,440
needed this ship for no reason.
After coming in for an interview, Dennis

644
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:49,119
told police that he went to Amanda's
apartment on the day of the murder to

645
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,760
drop off some weed. And when
he got to her door, you could

646
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:59,840
hear a man's voice, presumably yelling
at Amanda to die. Open the door,

647
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,079
because bay, so this is the
back door, the bad door.

648
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,880
Yeah, and I'm like, whereas
Amanda. So he's inside, she's busy

649
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,760
right now. He didn't let you
go in. He didn't. I didn't

650
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,119
even I never stepped in her house. He didn't. He just said,

651
00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:16,360
yo, he had that's it.
And I went about my way. Okay,

652
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:22,679
whatever, I go home about it. According to Dennis, he was

653
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:28,760
never able to meet up with Amanda
that day. Instead, when he knocked

654
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,880
on the door, an angry man
confronted him and, in so many words,

655
00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:38,960
told Dennis to get lost. If
Dennis's story was true, and that's

656
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,639
a pretty big if, but if
it was true, why was Dennis only

657
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,800
coming forward with this information now he
knew that Amanda had been murdered, So

658
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:54,639
why wait two years to give police
this crucial information? Do you say it?

659
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:58,320
I thought when we first came,
or you were saying he scared because

660
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,920
the other day when when you I
mean, I was you saw the guy?

661
00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:05,480
You saw the guy too? Hum? Yeah, walking on the street

662
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:09,599
and I feel a black Headilay Hedilac, and the guys are driving next to

663
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:15,000
me like he's just had a real
slow like okay, And I'd see the

664
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:17,519
guy in Chickabee, I see him
in Sprinklo shelter, seeing him in West

665
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,000
on the bus routes, and I
don't know what to do, guys,

666
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:27,519
but just terrified for my life.
Dennis claimed that the man he saw at

667
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:30,920
Amanda's apartment on the day of the
murder was stalking him, and out of

668
00:58:31,039 --> 00:58:36,760
fear for his life, Dennis decided
to keep his mouth shut. While they

669
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,400
never outright said it during the interview, it was pretty obvious that the detectives

670
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:46,599
weren't buying Dennis's story, and they
clearly suspected that Dennis was the killer.

671
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:52,079
If you remember, one of the
key pieces of evidence from the crime scene

672
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:57,639
was a bloody shoeprint that was found
next to Amanda's body. The killer was

673
00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:01,360
either a woman that wore a size
nine or a man that wore a size

674
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:07,039
seven. So far, none of
the suspects that police interviewed matched the size

675
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:15,760
of that shoeprint. That is,
until they interviewed little Foot Dennis. Those

676
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:21,719
speakers and here I'd be interested in
just taking the picture of it, just

677
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:28,000
to show you a suicide. Sure
enough, Dennis wore a size seven and

678
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:34,159
was a match for the bloody shoeprint
next to Amanda's body. A few days

679
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:37,760
after Dennis was first interviewed, the
police brought him in for another round of

680
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:44,920
questioning, and they told Dennis that
they were sure he was inside Amanda's apartment

681
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:51,920
on the day of the murder.
When confronted with this accusation, Dennis changed

682
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,079
his story. You're not lure many
hard, Yes, yep, yes,

683
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:58,639
and what half is it? I
hear a bunch of screaming, and I

684
00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:01,079
hear me boy, I heard her
voice. Yes, I heard her voice.

685
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,840
Yes, what was she saying?
Stop? Stop? Stop? Stop?

686
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,840
This isn't ready stop stop. So
then I barged in. So you

687
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,519
he didn't come to the door.
You actually went inside. I went inside.

688
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:15,360
I barged. It was the door
open, the door was unlocked.

689
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,840
In his new version of events,
Dennis explained that he barged into Amanda's apartment

690
01:00:21,239 --> 01:00:25,840
after hearing Amanda screaming. After he
was inside, Dennis claimed that he came

691
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,400
upon a violent struggle between Amanda and
her killer. So now they're in a

692
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,039
kitchen. What do you see when
you get to the kitchen? I see

693
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:37,679
the guy on top of her.
The guy was on top of her.

694
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:39,519
Well you say he was on top
of her? Who was she at?

695
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,119
She was in the floor? Was
she face up? Face down? Face

696
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:46,199
up looking at him? So?
Now what do you? What do you?

697
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,880
I mean, he's on top of
her while I run over there and

698
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,119
I try to separate him, and
she's trying to like tussle between me and

699
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:58,280
him, and the guy shoves the
shit out of me. She gets up

700
01:00:59,039 --> 01:01:01,320
and then the guy pulls out the
knife on me. So he's got the

701
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,960
knife out. Yeah, what are
you doing? I'm fucking tussling with the

702
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,960
guy and she's trying to get the
knife out of his hand, and he's

703
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,920
just like thrusting it, thrusting it
and thrusting it forward towards me, and

704
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,400
I'm like trying to back up and
shit, and I try to like grab

705
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,119
Amanda, and I couldn't grab her, and he just like tossed her and

706
01:01:17,199 --> 01:01:21,199
she like knocked out. She's just
went unconscious the way he tossed her,

707
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:23,639
but she wouldn't bla blank. And
after that, meaning him were tussling and

708
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,039
the guy punches me in the fucking
jaw, and I fucking run out the

709
01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:32,039
door. Dennis claimed that after this
encounter with Amanda's killer, Dennis took off

710
01:01:32,159 --> 01:01:37,800
running and after escaping the apartment,
he ran past a nearby park to safety.

711
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:44,599
But there was of course a problem
with his story. Honestly, I'm

712
01:01:44,639 --> 01:01:46,039
doing real honest with you. I
don't know anything else, no more nor

713
01:01:46,159 --> 01:01:52,119
less. It's actually a problem because
you're not being honest. He's still not

714
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,400
telling us about truth. I'm telling
you everything. No you're not. I've

715
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,599
told you everything. I'm sorry.
You may say no, you're not.

716
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,000
You're not. You're not listening to
listen number and I told you we know

717
01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:05,920
things you don't know. We know
there's more. Okay, there's a video

718
01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:09,599
right there on the corner, Okay, facing on that street, and I've

719
01:02:09,639 --> 01:02:14,199
watched that video, and no one
goes running down the street on that side

720
01:02:14,199 --> 01:02:16,599
of the road and cutting across to
the park. We've watched it. So

721
01:02:16,719 --> 01:02:21,360
it's another part of your story that's
not true. You're not telling us the

722
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,760
truth. There are several times throughout
his interview that Dennis has called out for

723
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:30,480
his obvious and blatant lies, and
each time this happened, Dennis changed his

724
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:36,480
story to match the evidence that he
was confronted with. By the end,

725
01:02:36,599 --> 01:02:40,519
Dennis's story had changed so much that
he actually claimed to have gone to Amanda's

726
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:46,599
apartment with Amanda's killer, which is
probably true if you want to get really

727
01:02:46,719 --> 01:02:52,679
technical about it, because he was
Amanda's killer. So the guy didn't do

728
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,800
it. You did it because he
owed you money for drugs? Is that

729
01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:00,079
what happened? Oh? I didn't
kill her? Started to stead, Okay,

730
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:04,480
so what happened? I mean,
we're going down and dealer went to

731
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:07,400
her house? What Mike Geiler went
to her house? You're a dealer went

732
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,119
to her house? Yeah, you're
a dealer, Mike dealer. Did you

733
01:03:10,199 --> 01:03:14,840
go there with you? Yes?
Okay, tell me what happened here.

734
01:03:15,199 --> 01:03:16,760
He's just like, yo, where
she lives? I told her where she

735
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,320
lived, and he's like, yo, you're coming with me. I don't

736
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,119
know the fuck what you say?
Why did you go to the house?

737
01:03:22,719 --> 01:03:25,599
Because he wanted to know where it
was and he you fucking was threatening me

738
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:29,400
all week. He was threatening you
all week? Why just to get his

739
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:35,000
money back? And he had another
bundle of lies and bullshit. Dennis told

740
01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:38,960
police that he brought his drug dealer
to Amanda's apartment and when they went inside,

741
01:03:39,719 --> 01:03:44,400
Dennis witnessed the murder. He knocks
on the door and he's like,

742
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:46,599
yo, answered the door, and
she answered the door. He pushed her

743
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:51,239
and so she answered the door.
Yeah, he pushes her in, pushed

744
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:52,039
her in the house, and I'm
like, yo, why are you pushing

745
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:55,159
her? And he was like no, I want my fucking money. I

746
01:03:55,199 --> 01:03:58,559
don't care what you say, like
you're gonna pay for this or she is

747
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,599
mo sometimes pocket just started poking her. He pulled something in his pocket and

748
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:04,480
just started poking her. Did you
see what it was? In the night?

749
01:04:04,719 --> 01:04:06,920
And he started poking up? What? She standing up? Yeah?

750
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,000
What do you do? Then?
I'm like, yo, why are you

751
01:04:12,119 --> 01:04:15,239
doing this. I'm gonna get you
your money, like you don't have to

752
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,400
go to this extent. He's like, no, fuck this, I don't

753
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,880
care. This is my money.
I worked for this ship. According to

754
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:26,599
Dentist, he simply stood by and
watched as his drug dealer brutally stabbed the

755
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:30,639
life out of Amanda. Keep going
and going and going and going. She

756
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,480
continuously stabbing her, And I'm like, what was he stabbing her at the

757
01:04:34,639 --> 01:04:41,119
stomach, fucking chest. I guess
was she fighting? She was fighting?

758
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,159
So did she fall at some point
after everything? I guess when you left

759
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:49,840
her? What position was she in, sprawled out on the floor. Did

760
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,599
you see the stab wounds in her? Yeah? You see him out of

761
01:04:53,639 --> 01:04:58,039
blood. She was dying. I
could. I could tell she was dying.

762
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:00,519
I could hear like air coming from
her throw. I've just seen her

763
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:05,880
gasping for air, just like he
just leaned on the floor trying to grass

764
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:11,280
for air. If Dennis's story was
true, which again, I mean,

765
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:15,159
come on, we all know it's
not. But if it was true,

766
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:20,639
Dennis would have to give the detectives
a name. He would have to tell

767
01:05:20,679 --> 01:05:27,639
them who this drug dealer was.
Shockingly, this wasn't something Dennis was willing

768
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,559
to do. This guy that was
with you that you took giving his name,

769
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:33,800
I'm sorry, Like you guys wanted
his name, I'm not giving his

770
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,000
name. You guys can charge him
for the ships. I'm already being charged

771
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,239
for this shit. So I'm being
real honest with you. I don't know

772
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,960
what else to tell you. Friend, for my life, you know what

773
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,920
I'm saying. Dennis claimed that he
wasn't willing to give up the killer's name

774
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:51,440
because he feared that the guy would
come after him. Yet Dennis was more

775
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:57,199
than willing to tell police what the
killer looked like, what cars he drove,

776
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,599
and where to find him is a
way. Yeah, it's my dealer,

777
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:05,440
I know, I know easier opinion. That's about it is that you

778
01:06:05,559 --> 01:06:10,880
drive. Yeah, that black Kindilaca
mean sign Ultima book color. He's not

779
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:18,400
ultimate Silvern sign green to not run
TV projects, you can find them rightfully.

780
01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:25,280
So the cops weren't buying Dennis's story, But no matter how much they

781
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:31,039
pressed him, Dennis maintained that he
did not kill Amanda Plas. Every single

782
01:06:31,079 --> 01:06:34,880
conversation that we've had with you,
it's changed, and you're still not telling

783
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:39,880
us the whole truth. You're not
done. I don't believe that there's another

784
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,000
person there. You want to prove
it, you're gonna need You're gonna need

785
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:45,599
to say the name, because I
don't believe there's another person there. It's

786
01:06:45,639 --> 01:06:47,920
just another one in a string of
miss truth that you told us all the

787
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,239
way along. There's no reason for
me to believe you. All the things

788
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:56,480
that you told us so far,
all the different things we're not true.

789
01:06:57,039 --> 01:07:00,480
It's time to come clean. Dennis. This is it right now, right

790
01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:02,639
here. Let me ask you this. You kill her because she old your

791
01:07:02,679 --> 01:07:08,199
money, didn't kill her? I'm
asking I didn't kill her. Once again,

792
01:07:08,719 --> 01:07:13,000
I wouldn't stop to that level.
Following his police interview, Dennis was

793
01:07:13,119 --> 01:07:16,719
booked and charged with first degree murder. It took a while for Dennis's case

794
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:21,239
to go to trial, but in
June of twenty sixteen, five years after

795
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:28,320
Amanda was killed, the jury was
finally able to hear the case. That

796
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,239
Friday afternoon, when miss class was
getting ready to go to work with friends.

797
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,639
I'm a morial driving cheat. She
had to be to work for five

798
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:42,639
when the defendant came into her apartment
while she was getting ready and stabbed her

799
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:48,599
six times. Her face was cut
and her throat was cut. In the

800
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:56,039
end, and after only five hours
of jury deliberation, Dennis rosa Roman was

801
01:07:56,119 --> 01:08:01,360
convicted of first degree murder. As
a custom, before Dennis was sentenced,

802
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:11,000
Amanda's family provided the court with impact
statements. He is not here begins.

803
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,519
There is no amount of time that
will ever bring me on the back.

804
01:08:15,159 --> 01:08:19,560
I will have endless ears of not
knowing who she could become by beautiful to

805
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,680
her, will never have a chance
to put her face to the sun and

806
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:34,640
humans more and lead. I would
like to ask court sentence possible. The

807
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:43,039
request that Amanda's mom made the court
was granted and Dennis rosa Roman was sentenced

808
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:48,960
to life in prison with no chance
of parole. Given that Dennis never confessed,

809
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:55,560
there is that lingering question why did
he do it? Well, we

810
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:00,359
don't know for sure and will likely
never know for sure. There is a

811
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:06,039
pretty solid theory about the motive.
About a week before Amanda was killed,

812
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:14,159
her apartment had been broken into and
someone stole her weed. Amanda told her

813
01:09:14,199 --> 01:09:17,920
friends that she suspected Dennis was the
thief, and she was probably right.

814
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:24,479
On the day of the murder,
Dennis likely assumed that Amanda wasn't home and

815
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:30,000
broke into her apartment to steal her
weed again. But Amanda was home and

816
01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:36,840
probably confronted Dennis in her kitchen.
From there, a violent struggle broke out.

817
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:44,199
Amanda fought for her life, but
sadly, Dennis got the best of

818
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:54,119
her and stabbed her to death.
Imagine killing someone for weed. Following Amanda's

819
01:09:54,119 --> 01:09:59,279
brutal murder, her family spent several
years trying to get a new law passed

820
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,039
in her name. When the police
were first called to the crime scene,

821
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:09,239
one of the first responders took photos
of Amanda's dead body and shared them with

822
01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:15,920
his buddies. These grewesome photos eventually
surfaced online, and this new law,

823
01:10:15,079 --> 01:10:23,840
dubbed Amanda's Law, would ideally deter
first responders from sharing crime scene photos in

824
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,079
the future. It's coming up on
the ten year anniversary of the murder of

825
01:10:28,119 --> 01:10:31,000
Amanda Plaz and her family is still
fighting to have a law with her name.

826
01:10:31,039 --> 01:10:34,720
When it passed, it would prevent
first responders trum taking and chairing on

827
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:39,560
authorized photos of a crime scene,
which is exactly what happened to Amanda.

828
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,520
This is not a law that you
would think would need to be set in

829
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,039
place, but here we are.
We need to actually tell people that they

830
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:48,720
can't do this, and we need
to make sure that there's a consequence,

831
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:56,159
because those officers really didn't receive a
consequence. In August of twenty twenty two,

832
01:10:56,359 --> 01:11:00,359
more than ten years after the murder, Amanda's Law was finally signed into

833
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:08,319
law by the Massachusetts state governor,
making it illegal for first responders to take

834
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:14,079
and share unauthorized photographs of a crime
scene. I guess you could say that

835
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:18,319
some good news came out of this
horrific tragedy, but it sure feels like

836
01:11:18,399 --> 01:11:25,800
a very small gain when you consider
what was lost. By all accounts,

837
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:30,520
Amanda was a vibrant, caring,
and talented young woman with a bright future.

838
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,720
Sadly, her life was cut short
because some asshole wanted free weed.

839
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:43,680
Another takeaway from this case is that
it's so important for homicide detectives to do

840
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:49,720
their due diligence. Amanda's boyfriend Seth
or her ex boyfriend Jesse could have easily

841
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:57,199
been charged with murder if even the
smallest piece of circumstantial evidence placed them at

842
01:11:57,239 --> 01:12:03,119
Amanda's apartment when she was killed.
Had these detectives not thoroughly investigated every aspect

843
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:10,279
of this crime, an innocent young
man might be sitting in prison right now

844
01:12:11,239 --> 01:12:18,840
while a killer roamed free, walking
the streets looking for another victim. When

845
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:25,119
it comes to murder investigations, there
is so much at stake, and it's

846
01:12:25,199 --> 01:12:31,920
usually best to put assumptions aside and
let the evidence speak for itself, because

847
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:41,520
the reality is, it's not always
the husband, and it's not always the

848
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:58,760
boyfriend. Well that's going to do
it. Thank you so much for joining

849
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,279
us. We hope even enjoyed it. If you have consider joining plus Sword

850
01:13:02,319 --> 01:13:06,800
and Scale dot com slash plus,
We'll see you next time. Until then,

851
01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:40,479
let stay Sack Sword and Scale team. This is Amanda from Denver.

852
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:49,520
I wanted to tell you guys,
you are so incredibly freaking awesome. I

853
01:13:50,079 --> 01:13:56,239
absolutely loved listening to your podcasts.
I've actually been if you guys at the

854
01:13:56,279 --> 01:14:01,000
beginning and love, love love it. I love how you guys have to

855
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:08,239
become this awesome independent group and do
your own sake, and I absolutely love

856
01:14:08,279 --> 01:14:11,920
it. I also want to tell
you you're writing it's better than any crime

857
01:14:12,079 --> 01:14:15,880
story show out there. You could
Daylight twenty twenty sixteen minutes all of those

858
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:20,560
shapes. You guys are way better
than all of those. And I freaking

859
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:27,199
love Nightmares. You guys, you
just keep like raising the bar for everyone

860
01:14:27,239 --> 01:14:29,720
else, but this ring, nobody
else is going to catch up, which

861
01:14:30,359 --> 01:14:32,640
it's how it should be. Anyway, you guys are amazing. Thank you

862
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:40,680
so much, Love and Nightmares.
I actually increased my donation to be higher

863
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:45,359
tier for you guys. Get jell
to service, so keep it up,

864
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,960
keep up the good work, stay
stage. That's fast holes for life.