WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:07.559 With a Ron Sagon and from London and Gerard read from Berlin. This is 2 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:15.439 redefining energy minutes. This is a special redefining energy life. From Athens. 3 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:21.239 We are in the You're Electric, you'ly submit and my guess is charge your 4 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:24.920 stasis the see of PPC. Good afternoon, thank you for having me. 5 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:29.559 Well, first we got a message from Gerard which I'll receive. Sorry, 6 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:32.399 guys, I missed my plane, so it's just going to be long. 7 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:37.799 Thank you very much. So your Electric are friends of the show and once 8 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.759 you're they organized this great submit we're in. I mean it's a great success. 9 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:47.520 Five hundred delegates and were your prime minister this morning and all this is 10 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:51.560 organized by Leo bion Bon, the se of Ion which we call Leo the 11 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:57.240 Great. We love him very much. Yes, but before we start talking 12 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:02.759 about PPC, the company you are the CEO off and such an extraordinary success, 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.239 we'll start by a quiz, all right, And the quiz is every 14 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:11.920 time you've got your Electric summit, they come with super flashy titles. So 15 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.040 the quiz is going to be your Electric or ac DC. So I'm going 16 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.560 to tell you a title and you're gonna say if it's a euro electric or 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:29.400 a CDC already right, Okay, Number one is power up a CDC good 18 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:37.000 one point game changers. That's your electric, yes, excellent, could be 19 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.920 also ey DC, it could be, it could be. But okay, 20 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:47.799 number three I voltage a CDC ac DC and to finish lights on. That's 21 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:53.519 your electric. That's your electric exactly, exactly. Maybe Georgio's before we enter 22 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.319 in the debate world about PPC, because you have done a remarkable turnaround the 23 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:02.480 past five years. Yep came the company in twenty nineteen. The company was 24 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.680 not in the best shape, in a very bad shape actually a financial at 25 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:12.120 that period, because of a series of choices of the company and of the 26 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:15.680 country in the past, in the sense that there was a delay in adopting 27 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:21.479 to the energy transition. So I came back in Greece, in my country 28 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.800 with the challenge to lead PPC. When we put on the tracks of the 29 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:30.000 energy transition the company. We developed a three pillar strategy. First of all, 30 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:35.560 the first pillar was a de carbonization, so we are doing the fastest 31 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:39.319 lik Night phase out, while in parallel we invest significantly on renewables. A 32 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:45.199 second is about digitalization and cross all business lines and as particularly in the network. 33 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:49.800 And third has to do about customer centricity, news services, advanced energy 34 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.479 service, many other things that I can explain, but just to sum it 35 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:58.400 up. Since then, from twenty nineteen adopting the strategy, we have had 36 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:04.439 our numbers improvingignificantly. So I think this is important because going on the journey 37 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:08.120 of the energy transition, we're doing it for climate regions, but we're doing 38 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:15.240 it also for economic regions. Nowadays it's cheaper to deploy solar and win for 39 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.719 instance, and new technologies. So as we were unfolding the strategy, we 40 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:23.120 saw our numbers improving year by year. Year by year, we started becoming 41 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:28.520 stronger and stronger, and we went out of Greece. We'll talk about that 42 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:32.479 later. So you take a company which is kind of a bit of a 43 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:38.439 public dinosaur, losing money and if I look at last year your result you 44 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:43.759 made like one point five billion positive. Yeah, and you've been privatized, 45 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.960 if I understand, Well, so there's probably less interaction. Yeah, there's 46 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.919 always interaction with the government, probably not on a day to day business. 47 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:55.960 So really I'm interested, how do you have managed to turn around so brilliantly? 48 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.680 If I would choose one element is again the beauty of the energy transition. 49 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:08.360 I mean, our sector is evolving significantly. A lot of other sectors 50 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:14.680 are moving through electrification to our sector, and this is a fascinating journey. 51 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.680 Is very fascinating to imagine these new services of the future. For instance, 52 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:23.720 we did immobility, a new business. We are doing fiber aloud, we 53 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.519 are doing a demand response. All this new stuff, when adopted inside an 54 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:33.959 organization, makes the people inside the organization excited about this new purpose, this 55 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:41.120 new vision, so they follow the vision with great enthusiasm. I would say 56 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.800 women to arrive where we are today because of enthusiasm and the vision of those 57 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.600 people to follow and make this new stuff that we're doing. Now, you 58 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:55.160 discover something that your processor did not figure out. You discover that Grice was 59 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:00.879 sunny and windy, hich s extraordinary. But you're really you're the first figure 60 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.839 it out. You see. My point is not such a big brain, 61 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:09.040 and it's just that I dare to say that it was also the correct timing. 62 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.560 The technology got cheaper, Yeah, technology got cheaper. Actually. PC 63 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.839 was one of the first companies worldwide to do the first wind pack in the 64 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:23.639 eighties, but then nothing, so PPC lost the train of the first big 65 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:29.639 boom of renewables after two thousand twenty ten, but we definitely didn't want to 66 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:33.839 lose the train of renewables now becoming below GRET parity, and this was the 67 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:39.279 fuel giving us fuel in our balance seat to do more and more and more 68 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:44.759 and more with the cheap renewables becoming very competitive. And then again when you 69 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.519 take out lignite, because lignite as opposed to hard coal is open minds, 70 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:55.160 open minds. It means that we have an unplavailability of land the size of 71 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:58.480 a city. Just to give you the dimension of the land we had before 72 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:01.800 mining was in the size together of the Saloniki, just to make an example. 73 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.959 So immediately you can go there. What do you have there? You 74 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:11.279 have interconnection points from the old power stations, You have land, and you 75 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:15.000 can put solar very easily because you have the land already laid in front of 76 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.959 You need to rehabilate a bit, but not a lot. Then you have 77 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:24.160 like holes in the ground that you can fill with the water and do pumping 78 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.600 hydro just for example. You can do ancillary serviceistion the old power plants. 79 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.920 So there's so many things we can do when you take the decision that it 80 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.519 is the time to go in the next day to do and push the bottom. 81 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.560 Yeah, repurpose because also there's something that is very clear when you're in 82 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.000 Greece is that well, first there's a lot of mountain, a lot of 83 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.959 islands, so it means that the old transmission system, I mean, it's 84 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.839 not that simple. It's not that simple, right, And Greece has the 85 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:58.519 so called non interconnected system, which is the islands which are isolated a stand 86 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:03.079 alone bases and then the transport operator IPTO has his own plan to interconnect them 87 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:09.000 with submarine cables and this is developing. And the last islands that will remain 88 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.519 we will tackle them with distributed generation in combination of batteries and solar and wind. 89 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.360 But this will be the very few ones. Greece is working through IPTO 90 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:21.120 to connect the island. So it's a complicated environment because of this geography. 91 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.439 But in every country has plus and minuses. Here we have more sun. 92 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.319 We don't have the wind of the North Sea, but we are working more 93 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:34.879 on the sun. That's why we are working on technology diversification as well. 94 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:39.879 We do a lot of solar, but we also do hydro. We also 95 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.759 do some gas. Gas is a transmission that fuel. The role of gas 96 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.839 is changing, it's just only for peaks now, but it's still there in 97 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:53.240 a certain extent. And the big volume is from wind and solar. And 98 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.959 we also need to do geographical diversification, which was what I was telling you 99 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.519 before. Yeah, what became is clear for or not in Greece, is 100 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:07.639 that as you got better, there was this connection toward the Norse Pulgaya than 101 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.959 of course Romania, which somehow extended your zone of influence. And at the 102 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:18.839 end of last year you did this extraordinary operation where you bought a Romania, 103 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:26.480 which was beyond the money. It meant that the mood inside PPC a change, 104 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.879 that you feel confident enough to go beyond your border, but not like 105 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:37.840 crazy everywhere. To also that it makes economic sense because it's part of people, 106 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:45.039 say Balkans, I would say southeastern Europe, so which somehow create regional 107 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:50.240 integration. So can you be elaborate on this regional integration and of course your 108 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.799 Romanian operation. Yeah, it was clear on my mind early on that because 109 00:08:54.799 --> 00:09:00.120 I had the experience, I mean, this field down twenty years, we 110 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.000 are in a single European market. The markets are interconnected, they are settling 111 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.559 in the day head market, all of them together in the same timing. 112 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.919 So Greece, which is a market which was an NT importer, was important 113 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:18.679 just to give you a practically from the northern borders, and this is through 114 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.039 Bulgaria to Romania and so on and so forth in the central Europe. Since 115 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.600 we were important anyhow, it why not to grow and build our own physical 116 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.480 presence in other countries. In our markets. One has to have a European 117 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.600 view because the markets are complicated and interacting one to the other. So it 118 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.919 was clear from the beginning we couldn't do. In the start we were because 119 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.200 we had our own problems and we had to put some order in our house. 120 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.039 But later on that we managed to become healthier financially. We clearly said 121 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.720 to the market that we're focused on growing in the north, and when we 122 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:54.759 say in the north, in places that we have interconnections in order to use 123 00:09:54.879 --> 00:10:01.080 our trading capabilities also with physical assets. We found the opportunit end Romania. 124 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.600 We thought for this and we managed to get it in a very good valuation 125 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.720 and we are operating a very big company in Romania. As well. We're 126 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:15.000 very happy for that. Romania has its own energy transition story anyhow to do 127 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:20.279 so also on a stand alone basis is very attractive because it's twenty two million 128 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.519 inhabitants with a lot of needs, that demand needs growing in the coming years. 129 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.679 So we are also building significant new renewables there, not only the ones 130 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.840 we found. Just to give you an idea, we build something like more 131 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.960 than four gigaba in Greece and another one and a half gigabat in Romania, 132 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.159 and we want to do another half or one gigab in the remaining countries Bulgaria 133 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.399 included. So we don't want to go I mean, I said in the 134 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.799 past and with investors talking, I might have a wonderful opportunity in the UK 135 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.559 of a good solar park, but for me, a solar park in the 136 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.840 UK is on a stand alone basis. Somewhere else I cannot deploy our trading 137 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.399 synergies. So we are particularly focused on South East Europe and on countries that 138 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:09.120 are interconnected one to the other. Because you have the generation, we have 139 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:13.720 also the supply business. We are a vertical integrated operator and we want to 140 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.639 have supply business also in the countries. We go well in San Romania, 141 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.120 and we also bought the supply business. At the end, this is about 142 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.559 portfolio management. You have generation, you have supply. You have years with 143 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:28.720 very low commodity costs. Because the only constant and known thing that we will 144 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.960 know for the future is that we will have volatility in the markets. That's 145 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.240 pretty sure. This is absolutely sure. So with volatility, we will have 146 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.480 years with very high commodity costs, years with very low commodity costs. So 147 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:43.360 what do you do. You need to have also the supply business, and 148 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.399 sometimes you make from the supply and you lose on the other or vice versa, 149 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.159 the right pocket, left pocket strategy. You need to have geographical diversification 150 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.639 because of managing and hedging yourself because sometimes you have more rain or wind or 151 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:03.120 different weather in different low aass first point. Second point, you need to 152 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:09.480 have technological diversification. I talked about this and solar and wind and every country 153 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:11.279 wind is more in Romania, for instance, so we are pushing a lot 154 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.799 for wind in Romania. You combine all these things to subject of Romania. 155 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.240 Does the wind blows at the same time in Romania and Greece not always. 156 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:26.120 You might have also this, but not always. Generally the wind blows better 157 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:31.799 in Romania versus someplace in Greece. Of course, we have the GM for 158 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.759 the offshore in the future, which is maybe one of the best, but 159 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.200 not deployed right now. You need to take the average of the country. 160 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.039 Okay, the average of the countrys of wind in Romania is a little bit 161 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.200 better, but Chris enjoys more irradiation from the sun. So we're trying to 162 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:52.799 combine all forces. So it means that those inter connections were almost daily in 163 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.240 and out, in and out. Yeah, you change in the hour, 164 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:01.320 Yes, change especially now lately since we talk now, in the last weeks, 165 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.960 we have witnessed and negative prices in Greece where we balance with the northern 166 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.759 borders, and this is part of the market line. Now we are managing 167 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.759 the torch. But we need to enjoy the pictures. Well, absolutely, 168 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.000 you're enjoying, if I may say so, the beauty of interconnector on the 169 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.360 show, we love interconnector. Also let's talk about the future a bit of 170 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.159 interconnector. Also probably first Europe, what vision do you have, Yeah, 171 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.159 the best example for interconnectors in Europe is what we experience with the Ukraine War 172 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:41.799 because Europe managed to survive because of using primarily the interconnectors supporting one country to 173 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:46.360 the other. The unity of Europe was the real example, and that's why 174 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.639 many times there are limitations to how much renewables, for instance, you can 175 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.799 do. And this is where the interconnectors are very crucial. In order to 176 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:01.279 do this flow of energy north and south west and the east inside the European 177 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.519 unions, it's very important for the new Commission to push a lot on the 178 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.559 new interconnectors and the countries to manage to develop more and more inside Europe. 179 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.720 Then again, if you look not only Europe but also the other continents and 180 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.200 think there is a lot to be expected from northern Africa, there is a 181 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.919 project that is about to be developed, and there are several times. Actually 182 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.600 one of them is Egypt de Greece a cable and that would make sense for 183 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.679 the future to build Why not to build a more renewables there and pass them 184 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.360 over. On the other side, everybody is doing digital like literally everybody. 185 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:41.559 So when you have a digital strategy, so how does it work? Like 186 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.000 you look at what the other guys from your retric are doing, or some 187 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.960 guys have ideas, So how do you prioritize it and how do you execute 188 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.039 it. We started the transformation nineteen and we arrived where we arrive today and 189 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:01.320 we are becoming a regional champion in the Southeast Europe. So we are always 190 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.480 trying to find ways how to do. Also, technological leaps take us further 191 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:11.480 in front, and digitalization is one of the most important elements. You might 192 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.759 have solutions which are playing Vanilia. I would say then that would be automations, 193 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.399 GIA systems, the systems in the network, but you also have new 194 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:26.519 technologies like IoTs trying to be able to monitor your network all the elements of 195 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.720 it, because the more you monitor, the more you can manage it better 196 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:33.279 and be reactive on your operation. But then we feel that it is our 197 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:37.279 obligation to look on the front front of the technology. We are actually developing 198 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.440 a fiber network as well as part of our business. For every home we 199 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.279 will be reaching three and a half million households passing this fiber. We are 200 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:52.200 deploying an international some marine fiber from Greece to Saudi Arabia and then further tog 201 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.159 up to Singapore and all this at the end work together because for instance, 202 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.440 we are starting the construction of a new data center in Athens, twenty five 203 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:10.320 megaba data center. The AI will play a significant role in changing everybody's business 204 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.080 as well as in our sector. In particular in our sector both in the 205 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.519 way we do energy trading, so we are trying to pile We do a 206 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:22.840 few pilos there, but also as an infra. Let me be more specific. 207 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:27.720 We are entering the data center possibilities because I've started talking about the formlignite 208 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:32.039 areas and what we have there. And if you think what the data center 209 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:36.440 needs, it needs land, it needs an interconnection, and it needs renewable 210 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.399 in order to be green, it needs cooling. We need water like the 211 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.919 older thermal power plants, we're using water. So we are trying to synchronize 212 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.080 this stuff to make big data centers for housing AI activities. And we are 213 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.799 two years now that we are trying to find the best way to enter in 214 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.320 this market. Lately we did the first move with Dramac and we're making this 215 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.120 first data center in Nothings. We are considering enter more actively on this field. 216 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.920 Wow, very interesting. Just before we conclude and we had him on 217 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:14.400 the stage. We like us podcaster your electric continue to tell our support for 218 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:19.160 t Tech, Maxine Teaching COO and the people of Ukraine who are shelled every 219 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:23.079 day by Russian thugs. They have all our heart and our support. And 220 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.960 I know for the fact that the European energy industry has been helping a lot 221 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.720 your pretive keep the lights on. And this is very important. It's not 222 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.440 just politicians. Goes back to the unity went yes, exactly exactly. We 223 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.880 are a united industry, Okay, Jeorjoe, thank you so much, thank 224 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:48.480 you very much, thank you very much. Thank you for listening to Redefining 225 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.440 Energy. Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify 226 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:56.680 for the platform of your choice.