Well, you know, Russell Moore stood out in the evangelical circles for criticizing
Trump. He was also critical to Southern Baptist conventions, handing of sexual abuse,
and white nationalism, and this resulted in his department. He now had.
Christianity Today magazine more recently addressed a crisis and American Christianity. You think
society's divisions have infiltrated the church. In reality, it's the other way around.
More glosses over the role of the evangelical leaders. They have fanned the
flames in the name of their own self interests for decade. He was a
top church official. When he did condemn them, he says. Christianities and
christis MPR dot Org by Scott Detro, Gabriel Sanchez and Sarah handel And August
twenty twenty three, and also this article another articles Evangelicals are now rejecting liberal
teachings of Jesus and Newsweek by Elis Leisco, August nine, twenty twenty.
Now I was wondering, Cynthia, what did you have? Well, you
know, we covered Russell More a few times on the nonprofits. I think
the first time that we covered Rust Moore is when him and Bethmore departed the
SBC no relation back in April of twenty twenty one. But it's for the
same reasons that you mentioned previously in the article, being I believe the specifically
left because of the misogyny that was rampant in the church, and also she
was a outspoken critic of Trump as well. Now, not to be fair,
when Moore described to convinced the conversations he was having with the other ministers
on how they're congregants who are MAGA supporters and calling Jesus the sermons, the
sermon on the Mountain one, uh, the turney of the cheek week,
these are antidotes. Okay, there was no survey monkey that was like conducted
in order for us to get like an actual approximation of the percentage of MAGA
people who were saying that Jesus is weak or what have you. But I
do have to say that there seems to be a proclivity of those who are
MAGA Christian nationalists to be a bit more reactive in action to making sure the
country that is bending to the MAGA will. And if this was not the
case, we would not have had January sixth, Can I get an amen
from all the atheists on the pannel. But thank you, thank you,
and I'm so glad that you all said that, and we did not rehearse
that. But I am curious to know what you all have to say.
And I'm coming to you first, Phil, because you are on the outside
looking in on the American politic. What say you? Yeah, well,
I this this is makes me laugh in the sense that this person is being
hypocritically. On one hand, yes, is against do you know what Trump
is not any all right? And the and he has played to the evangelicals
and so on, he called them out. This guy called called Trump and
the people that are supporting Trump, the Christians are supporting Trump. But then
on the other hand, then we really dig the we realized. But this
guy still supports pro life. He's against abortion. Is also oh against alb
g t Q right, which is very problematic with him. So and oh
he's awesome misogynists supports some misogyny. Yeah, yeah, woman is the man
is the head of the house, and the woman have to be submissive to
ones, etcetera. All that hierarchy, hierarchy crap, crap. So I
it's like, okay, sir, I can applaud you on calling out Trump
and the Christian nationalists who are trying to take a COVID the country. But
on the other hand, you are still problematic, sir, You're still problematic.
You are against marginalized group, all in the name of religion, all
in the name of a daw that you can't even show to exist, right,
and and and in that case, you are also demonstrating, hey,
you're doing the same thing basically as the Christian nationalists who are against these same
things that you are. Again, so all they all are you saying about
same hit speech, same hit, no different right, and it is is
is not really surprising because you know, I find that Christians tend to say
from one denomination, say, oh, the other denomination is not Christian,
and you know, they play these sort of games. So he's calling out
his the church that I used to belong to, the denomination, the Southern
Baptist Convention for Sexual Abuse not handling sexual abuse cases the way that this should
handle him. But then on the other hand, he is trying to say,
oh, but the ILBGTQ, there's a problem with them, There's a
problem if women needs to U know, the place baustly because that's why that's
what he's saying. And also I find me he's kind of being hypocritical.
But what what you say about dot John Well, yes, I agree,
this is a bit a bit the pot calling the kettle black. It's just
the friendly atheist had a breakdown on brussel Moore that was rather enlightening. His
only real gripe with Trump or Maga appears to be that this whole thing about
them calling out Jesus is weak. Other than that, he kind of toes
the line right down with the same crap that everybody else in that evangelical vein
uses. And I'm part of at least two of those minorities, and I
know that other people on this panel are a part of two or more of
those minorities that they don't like and want to just take us from being marginalized
to not extant, which to me is a scary proposition given some of the
idiots that they have following them. I just don't think at this point that
we should entertain any applause for a man who just says, you can't talk
about the guy in my Bible, but it's okay not to do what he
says, it's just kind of like like you said, it's just a big
hypocritical mess. Their theology is so fractured and so convoluted and tied into such
a big Gordian knot that eventually it's going to have to give and they're just
going to end up in a very bad place. And I don't want to
see that because it usually ends up in violence. But we'll see what happens.
And Infidel, what do you have to say on this? Well?
You know this subject more reminded me of a famous civil rights leaders comments after
the assassination of JK. He said that this was the chickens coming home to
roost. I really thought that was a perfect answer to Russell Moore. This
politicalization of the movement has been going on for over fifty years. They spent
trillions of dollars. They wanted their vote, but it was just a ploy.
The dog caught the bus again. They got ahead of themselves. Wasn't
preaching turned the other cheek with his ANTILBGT rhetoric or as promoting subjugating women.
Military and Holy war rhetoric have been the norm forever. God's Army spiritual warfare,
battling the devil, they all come to mind. I don't know why
more is surprised when people actually expect a holy war when you use in those
type of terminology. Now, what we are seeing is qann has coopted Christianity
borrows and it shares their themes. Preachers recently been inciting violence against others for
simply existing. I don't know what more could expect other than that they make
their enemies to be up here, not even human though. He's just another
closed minded bigot upset that his guy drivel wasn't popular with the cool kids of
the radical eyes Evangelical. The Bible says that one reads as they also show,
so as they so they also show read. But that is a lot,
because we're going to all pay the price for this. We're going to
all pay the price for their hate again. So Cynthia, what do you
think about this over Well, you know, when I was reading the NPR
article, something that they quoted Russell Moore saying was fairly intriguing to me.
He said, I think that the roots of the political problem really come down
to disconnection, loneliness, sense of alienation. Even in churches that are still
healthy and functioning. Regular church going is not what is what it was a
generation ago and which the entire structure of the week was defined by the community.
And I'm curious to know from you guys. Do you agree with him
and why or why not? And Jonathan, I would like for you to
start. We had a pandemic. Everybody was stuck at home. They saw
their religious services on the internet or just didn't see them at all. They
were isolated from their friends and family, unless they just happened to get caught
with their family in the same household. Usually that's the case, and that
kind of loneliness, that kind of when you put any primate, but especially
humans in a non social context, we literally drive ourselves crazy. And so
it's I hate to use that word, I shouldn't, but we drive ourselves
over the edge. And the whole idea was that they were first. It
started with the anti vaxers right during the pandemic. Those morphed into things like
you know, Mom's for Liberty, you know, other hate groups because they
wanted to feel part of something. And that drive for us to be part
of another group is instinctual. It's buried in our DNA. It's got a
lot of stuff that contributed to it, and I don't think there's a way
for us to deal with the fact that these people found the wrong groups to
be with and they they agree with them, not because they necessarily believe what
they're saying, but because they want to stay in the group and they want
to feel like the group likes them and that they're there. This is this
is just something you see time and time again in the bite model. You
know of, of domination, you know of you know, cults and things
like that. They created a cult out of people who were desperate to have
social interaction. And I'm not blaming the people who necessarily who fell for it.
I'm blaming the people who perpetrated it. So anyway, I would like
to let Infidel weigh on us. I'm sure you have a few choice comments,
you know. I've got to say that. I think what if I
can translate for more, what he's saying is is because we lost a little
bit of our grip on you, you're not doing what we want you to
do. That that's what I heard there. Maybe maybe my Google Translate doesn't
work well on Morihism, but that's what I'm hearing, because I mean,
he doesn't mind the hate. I mean, Cynthia, I mean you should
need to be talking silence, remember, but you know, And then the
truth is is that every one of us here, you know, we're all
you know, we all fit this. We don't fit their bill. So
well, Infidel, we're not in church, so I can't talk. Yeah,
I wouldn't expect you to do it. Then I hope I'm counting on
it. There's no but this, this is all back to what I said
of you know, he's not part of the cool kids club anymore, and
that that's part of it. You know, Phil, you you hit it
on the head with your golf clap of Yeah, okay, I hate Trump.
Yeah, I'm you know what. You hate Trump because he's not doing
something you want him to do, or he's or he doesn't fit your preconceived
notion of what you want him to be. Because you're happy with this message
of hate. Hate is fine, it does. It's big business. We
can hate on all the vulnerable people available. So is he mad about Oh,
we're getting away from our Christian values? No? Well, you know
what, I hope we are. I hope we are getting away from some
of those suld be good. But you know, what, I don't blame
society on where the church is. We know where the church is, and
we know how they got there. They drove the bus. They just didn't
realize that the other people were going to finally get in the driver's seat and
be more unhinged than they possibly were. But you know, I could ran
about the weaknesses of an organization that only exists because well, they wanted to
defend slavery in the Civil War era. Let's not forget that. So the
Baptist Church, the phil what do you think on this awesome guy in his
organization he used to belong to this the A agree. I agree with what
y'allogist say. On top of that, right in audition, we also see
he's talking about trade bialism. He thoughts about trade balizm and fractionalization outside in
society community church, which already there were They had these communities, these close
knit communities and exclude everybody else, and tribalism and fractionalization as always being part
of church. You have these, that's why we have from many denominations for
five So he as I said, he's a hypocrite and he is trying to
point fingers elsewhere but remember what they say, men, you point at someone,
how many fingers pointing back? Yeah? Right, So they and even
befin is even within the particular denomination, you also have tribalism, fractionalization,
you know. And because people have different types of interpretations, even though they
have the church as a general a general base, but some persons in within
church interpret there was things differently. So that's always been the case. And
yes, as Jonathan correctly said, because of the isolation during that period of
time, it's kind of like they felt that they lose grit, some grit
on the church because a lot of people stopped going to church after COVID because
they starting to realize they were separated from the constant indoctrination from the preachers,
and so they had time to sit back and think and then realize. But
look look at how some of these preachers are behaving, you know, how
what they how they are getting on. They're they're telling people don't take the
vaccine. And then some of them being made on the live and people start
to vehicup. People started to vehicup. So he's just complaining, just complain
and complaining because they are losing He and them are losing grit on people,
and people are not drinking that holy kool aid as they used they say,
you know, correct, So yeah, they're not drinking the kool aid,
you know, or they probably gonna get poisoned and then next thing, you
know, they did, which actually happened, but you know, just to
kind of like piggyback on what you said feel about how a lot of these
pastors were carrying on during COVID and also how as as you Jonathan and you
Infidel pointed out about preachers losing their grip on their congregations. I remember,
and I think Phil you can remember this too. There was a pastor I
want to say he was in Nigeria who is a mega pastor. I don't
I don't know his name, but I remember him saying that he bought I
believe two planes jets, two jets. Yeah, personal jets jets during COVID,
yes, And and then the congregation was like, whoa, look at
Jesus. And then he said after that, I hope COVID never ends.
And I think that some of the people who were actually going to church will
listen to some of this rhetoric and hearing some of the pastors coming on to
their different social media's and television programs and and saying things like this about don't
take the vaccine, Jesus was going to heal you. Blah blah blah blah
Blooh. I think the Jim Baker was selling some type of silver solution that's
supposed to cure COVID. They even had like doctors who were also Christian nationalists
that were co signing on this particular rhetoric. One doctor tenpenny. Yeah,
I think it was thank you. Our crew just mentioned and I'm going to
try to read this the co the colloid dial silver colloidal thank you. Yes,
that what my panel just said, because obviously I have a problem reading.
But regardless it was, he was made to stop because it was not
something that was like backed up empirically. There was no peer of youth.
It was an FDA approved He was just saying stuff, right, and and
and a lot of this particular stuff is dangerous. But regardless of that,
I think that's a lot of people was probably thinking what I was thinking.
If your God is so damn good, then while over a million people United
States alone died during the COVID nineteen pandemic, he wishes it will last forever.
It's going to Yeah, I have to get a new vaccine every year,
every year, every year, kind of like the food shot, you
know. So, I mean so like when I when I hear Russell Moore
saying that even churches that are still healthy and functioning regularly, church going is
not what it was the generation ago. We just covered on this show a
couple of times how church attendance is dwindling exponentially and it's because of problematic creatures
like this and not being able to prove that God exists empirically, and not
having any supernatural thing comporting to reality, and realizing that we don't need any
type of moral compass from a deity that we cannot prove exist. We can
do it on our own. But one thing that you can do, dear
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