WEBVTT

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M Today is Tuesday, March eighteenth, twenty fourteen. This is the Giant

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Bomb Cast. I'm Jeff Gerstman hosting
this week's installment of the show, and

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I'm joined by if Any Caravella.
Hey, what day did you say?

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It was? The eighteenth man I
watched is four days by. That's Daylight

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Savings is a motherfucker main. I
just noticed it. This is why you

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should get like some kind of electronic
wash automatically sets itself and you're worry about

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that sort of stuff. Soundn't like
this digital economy? Fair enough? Fair

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enough? If you don't like the
future economy, it's not then yeah,

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go ahead and have your watch be
off. Brad Shoemaker, you look like

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a man who knows what day it
is. Not what I'm making that up.

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Okay, yep, that's all I
got. I can only hear one

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half of my headphones right now.
It's making me crazy. That's I'm only

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hearing half of what you're saying.
Every other world cable or pull out pull

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out the cable part way, Janel. Eventually just a little bit, the

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headphones are off, Let's do this. WHOA all right? If Brad can't

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okay, we're saying now that guy, Hey, what's up? You put

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your headphones back on? Hear you
again? All right, Well, Drew

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is out on assignment of a very
personal nature. He's on personal assignment,

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personal assign Yeah. So we're joined
by the Chicago Double Yeah, a hot

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duo. Giant Bombs Chicago two thirds
of Giant Bomb Chicago or in the building

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the Best two thirds, the best
two thirds. Patrick klebick Yo, welcome

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back the area. And Dave Lang
greetings up up in the building for the

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podcast. This is my first podcast
ever here, Ever, here, I

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was gonna say, ever ever,
Like, what what are you doing?

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Man? One time I was on
the Pringles chat. Okay, they just

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like crowled me at the Super Bowl
and like, hey, do you have

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a good thing to say about pringles? I talked for an hour straight?

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Did you talk for an hour straight? About just did you? Was it?

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How comedy? Curly mustache riffles?
Basically ruffles don't have ridges, No

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they don't. They don't need them. Yeah, one time they tried to

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put them in bullshit, No you
don't want you don't just in ruffles.

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No ruffles have ruffles. Getting your
brands about pringles ruffles. You're off brand

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here, you're off message in Chicago. No reason this never aired, but

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so much is being discovered now.
Yeah, you got in there and say,

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yeah, I love ruffles. Let's
talk. Can you Can you seriously

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not get the pringles with ridges anymore? I don't. I was making all

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I don't think I've ever seen a
pringle with ridges? How do they stack?

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I don't interweaving weaves? That sounds
complicated, You get that. It's

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thousands of man hours of engineering went
into this, this incredible culinary feat.

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Oh man, what a waste.
Well, it's chips. Chips are important,

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yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the chips economy. I mean

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it's it's basically like since the you
know, most of the video game development

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and the organized crime went away.
I think that's that in pizza are the

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big Chicago things now? Right?
Is that right? Yeah? That's right?

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Don't we authorized? I think that
checks up? Okay, okay,

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all right, I want you guys
get in trouble or anything. Yeah,

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so you guys are in town because
GDC is happening. Yeah week, the

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Game Developers Conference all week, but
mainly kind of kicking off on Wednesday.

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It's when like the the big talks
start right because there's been some stuff.

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So so Monday and Tuesday are like
independent track, narrative track, like GDC

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is split in the tracks, and
it used to be there like almost nothing

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of worth happening on Monday Tuesday.
But that's not really the case anymore like

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that. Real heavy hitters are Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. But that's when

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like the expo floor is open too, So if you want to go look

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at like scale form, yeah,
that's also what everybody's good and hungover yep,

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yeah, but you feel bad for
anyone that has like the when the

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Friday at like four pm slot,
it's just like why even give it.

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It's like a bunch of people going
to the airport. That looks like a

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really good talk, but I I'm
already on a plane. Yeah yeah,

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yeah, cool, Well why don't
we's let's talk about Patrick. You've been

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actually out and about seeing stuff,
but you know, even just let's let's

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talk about time back at Chicago as
well. What's been going on, what

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is the what's the cleptic existence looking
like these days? Dave and I were

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talking about that it's cold, we
hope and it's warm when we go back

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in a week. Yeah, it's
got to be. It's been a bad

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winter. We were talking about this
before the podcast, but the worst winter

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in a hundred years historic, real
bad and it's like in my memory,

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which in Italy is like only good
for two years going backwards. But like

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I don't remember anything this bad ever. No, Like there's that one time

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when I was a little kid,
or literally like five foot of snow in

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my driveway, like, but that
was like one day and it was gone

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a few years ago. Yeah,
snowed on crazy, but the cheer it's

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been again and again and again.
Well then it'll get like warm and then

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the city will like temporarily flood for
the day, which is why the my

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downstairs in my apartment flooded. Oh
yeah, yeah, I want to hear

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about the flood. So nothing got
damaged, thankfully, because our the floor

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dips like in the kind of the
center, so all the all the water

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pooled in the center, like underneath
the couch, and it didn't like spread

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out naturally to the entire floor,
which would have gotten to like it like

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it should have hit the electronics.
The electronics are right by the door.

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How deep? How deep are talking? Uh, it's not like like a

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whole foot, but it was like
probably like when it was pooling, like

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a couple of inches, like it
was just under our couch, like it

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should have ruined the couch. It
only ruined a rug. But what happened

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was our apartment is a two levels, uh, and downstairs is kind of

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like this reformed basement. And it's
been what's been happening in the winter in

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chicag right now. It is like
it gets really really cold and then everything

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will freeze, and then it'll get
warm for like a day or two and

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things will melt and then it'll freeze
again. And what happened was like there's,

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uh, the stairwell outside of our
downstairs that connects like our apartment in

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another apartment, and that froze over
the drain and I didn't I didn't know

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there was a drain out there.
Obviously, this drain is very important for

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what the thing that drains do.
Uh. And I work from home in

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the morning and then I work out
of the cards office in the afternoon usually,

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and I there was kind of like
a puddle on the floor, but

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it was no big deal. It's
like, oh, it's I mean,

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I don't know what that is,
but it's I don't know, well whatever,

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I looked around, I could not
figure it out. Like I was

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like, well, I guess maybe
that just won't happen again. And then

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like went in like did a splunky
stream came out and just like holy shit,

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like everywhere and what had happened was
like the it was a day where

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uh it it was it was raining
because it was warm enough where it should

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have been snowing, but it was
also warm enough that all of the snow

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like a foot and a half was
melting, and it was just the pipes

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couldn't even contain it, like if
you went outside and looks like in the

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different apartment complexes, like it was
just spewing out of the pipes like it

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could not handle all the water,
and so it was just rushing into our

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apartment and I open it up and
I just it's just like the actual like

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drainage area was like like half a
foot of water. And so I get

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out there, I get my boots
and I don't know what to do,

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Like we call it landlord. He's
like, there's a drain there. I

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was like, it's not a fucking
drain, dude, Like I can't.

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There's no drain. And he's like, is there ice there? And I'm

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like, he's like, it's under
the drain, it's under the ice.

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So I went and got a hammer
and then like put something over my head

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because this is just straight up hard
ice and so like sharp pieces are just

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flying everywhere. So I just put
something over my head and I'm just smashing

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the ice with a hammer for like
two or three minutes. Got that away.

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But all while this is happening,
there is flooding water just coming in.

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There's no way to stop it,
yes, and like we're putting like

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towels down, but they're just the
towels are being just washed away and there's

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nothing you can do. And then
our landlord pointed out, like deep in

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the back of like this part of
the apartment we don't really use, there's

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a shop back there, you go, So we get the shot back out

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and and so my wife is using
the shot back to like get all the

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water up. I'm hitting it with
a hammer. Uh. And then once

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we even found the drain, the
drain had frozen all the way down.

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There's nothing, there's nothing we can
do about that, except then we went

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upstairs boiled a huge pot of water. I'm sitting there with a shot back

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and like just trying to maintain like
we just forgot about the water in the

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living room, Like there's nothing,
like nothing we can do about that right

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now. On the ice, yes, crack the pipe and half not my

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problem, Like this is this,
this is like the the the apartment complexes

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problem. This is part of their
property. I was like, I don't

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really care right now, So so
I just dumped the hot water on there,

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cleared that out, and then uh
then we went in there with like

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thirty towels and just like you have
a lot of felt like thirty towels might

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have been like four, but it
felt like I got a lot of things

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to clean up. So shot back
up all the water. You said,

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run. Yeah, there was a
rug and we have a really cool landlord

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guy. He was like, hey, this should have been taken like he

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claimed the building claims there was a
guy who goes through and checks that thing

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every single day. Like absolutely not. So he was like, you know,

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he replaced the rug and like knocked
our rent down for a couple of

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months. It's like don't uh,
It's like, well, it's just dirty

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water. Right, like so like
it's just it can't really be cleaned out

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or carpet rug there's no carpet,
what kind of flooring? Why was it

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bowing? It's the actual like apartment
itself is like slightly at an angle downstairs.

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So like when we were putting up
the furniture, in certain parts it

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will line up straight and then it's
like in certain walls you will just notice

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that it's kind of at a slant, and that slant bows in a certain

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way. That just the water pooled
under there and like I had just gotten

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a brand new TV and everything like
it just hooked everything up and uh,

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we got lucky. Yeah, yeah, No, And I didnt get frostbite

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when I locked myself out of my
apartment either, that one. That one

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was bad. Get frostbite and negative
forty degree weather in like ninety seconds and

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I had no shoes on. That
seems like a good way to lose a

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toe, yeah, yep, or
like a couple really Yeah, I don't

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care what Will Smith says. You
should not be running barefoot, especially when

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it's negative forty degrees out. Yeah, my option was to run to Walgreens.

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That was my only other option I
had a T shirt and sweatpants.

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Did you go outside get the paper
or something? Know that we were getting

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furniture delivered and the guy it was
negative like forty degree out like whipping wind,

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and the guys trying to get this
huge like thing up. So I

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went out to help him. I
try and get it up and didn't realize

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the bottom door was locked, but
somebody was inside. Then No, Katie

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was out of town. How about
the guy who brought the couch in,

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Uh, well, he just left
it like outside like and then he's like

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this, He goes, are you
locked out? And I was like,

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not your problem, because he has
to deliver all this freaking furniture and negative

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forty degree. I was like,
I'm not gonna let you worry about this.

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I was also trying to not panic, yeah, because I knew I

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had like two options. Was like
I was reading about all the dangers of

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frost bite, like in the forty
eight hours leading up to this, like

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it's all like these like don't leave
your house, don't go outside, and

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now I'm suddenly I have no shoes, no socks, I have no phone,

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I have like no little covering me. And everything turned out okay,

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fortunately, there was a locksmith outside
of our building, came in and popped

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it. He didn't have to mess
up the lock, he just did.

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Had like one of the air things
they puff up and it just goes.

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It's like they It's one of those
things where when you look at it,

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you're like get a little bit worried, Like, man, it's too easy

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to say, why doesn't everybody have
when it wasn't you have to be you

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have to go to school, Like
you cannot even buy the devices without Okay,

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yeah, we all know that only
honest people go to school. So

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that's cool. Yeah, good,
No. That was the thing, like,

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you know, growing up around kind
of auto repair and stuff, like

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seeing people use slim gyms and seeing
people use like you know, locksmith sets

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and all this other stuff and seeing
the difference between the tools that you know,

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hooligans would use and the stuff that
like, you know, likes and

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professionals would have, and just looking
at it and going like all these catalogs

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just say like you just need to
fax us proof of whatever bullshit thing like

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I was gonna write like I went
to lock school and then fax it to

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them and then they'll be off the
hook. They'll send you whatever the hell.

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I mean, the guy came in
and he was literally thirty seconds and

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he's like, well, here's two
dollar bill. And I was like,

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well, that's this is great.
I'm really good. I'm back in my

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place. But it's scary how easy
it is. Yeah, Like he literally

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just slides these two things in puff
puff puff, and then he like runs

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a little something along the lock and
then yeah, and he's in. I

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think those bumps, like remember they
put the saggy bump it and the thing

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just opens up. Remember the thing. It's like he's rotate the right analog

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sticks so you feel it vibrate and
little the right trigger and then it opens.

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It's easy. Actually, felt like
that or fast. I'm never going

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to talk shit about a lock No, a lock picking mini game ever.

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No, uh yeah, advanced lock
tech. So you've been in town for

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I guess Saturday. You got in
right, Yeah? I got in Saturday

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because on Sunday I was giving us
or talk at this like one day Games

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Criticism conference that was that GDC called
Critical Proximity. So I was in for

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that and then just kind of hung
out, go what was the general vibe

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of that. I feel like you
know, games criticism is something that I'm

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not sure how I feel. It's
so it's a weird thing where like I

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feel like reviews are like the review
end of things. As someone who has

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done thousands of those, I look
at it and go like, this is

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like increasingly of limited use to people, as like as buying advice, Like

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it's intended effect is not necessarily being
met as well as it used to be.

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Yeah, and I don't think like
the term getting criticism is like,

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you know, sort of hoity toity, Like it's still like not really sure

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what that is exactly. And then
that conference was a lot of people just

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like I don't know what I'm doing, but like, you know, it's

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it's more just like taking you know, games more seriously. Sure, Like

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I guess if that's like sort of
the bottom line. And and if there

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was like a narrative to the entire
conference, it was like it's really hard

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to make money doing this, Like
games criticism is the thing that's trying to

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figure itself out, just as there
are precious few ways to make money writing

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about games. Yeah, it's like
the other side of it, the like

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information entertainment end of it. This
is not that much easier. No,

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No, So it's like, you
know a lot of folks that are kind

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of in that end and like sort
of like the smaller, like not established

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sites, like they use things like
Patreon like and stuff like that that like,

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there are like some tools coming out
that allow people to I don't know

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if i'd call it livable wages,
but they can complete projects like I saw

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like what Kara Elson was trying to
to get funded for, and then that

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all seemed super smart. It was
just like this actually seems like something that

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would be worth reading. Absolutely,
but I understand why as someone who has

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controlled a freelance budget before and thought
about things that way, like, yeah,

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that's probably a tough sell. Yeah. Well, and like the wopeful

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thing with some of that stuff is
that maybe that proves out there's an audience

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and then bigger sites will take a
chance on stuff like that. So my

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talk was fairly serious. It was
about like sort of uniformity in game criticism

241
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in big like generally, when like
a big game comes out, it's sort

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of it's good or it's bad,
Like it's sort of the same review at

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a lot of different places. Yeah, you know, the flashpoint of that

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was like Bowish Infinite last year,
where like when that game come out,

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everyone loved it on the big sites, and then there was like this long

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sustained sort of critical backlash to the
game in smaller communities. And so my

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talk was like why is that sort
of divergence there, Like it shouldn't be

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so like exparing, Like when a
game comes out, I like to read

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the one dude that hates it,
Like that's why I left tom Chicks Reviews.

250
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I never agree with that guy,
but he always hates stuff that people

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love, and he's really smart about
articulating it. Yeah. I think that

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that's the difference. Right. It's
not just like I'm gonna come out and

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say fuck this ship. Yeah,
there are plenty of people that's YouTube.

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All of that is that, But
being able to actually give sound reasons why

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you feel that way, I think
is the difference. Yeah. Yeah,

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So so mine kind of explored like
maybe why those happened to big sites,

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and a lot of it was like
it's kind of like systemic hiring practices of

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people hiring who they know and a
lot of like people games are like to

259
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have games as a hobby when you
were young, like you kind of had

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to come from a decent back,
like a like a background of like your

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parents had money, Like games are
not cheap, and so that I think

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some of that's changed, absolutely,
absolutely, like for the people that are

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like running websites right now and like
like sort of like the systems that are

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in place the games have led to
a very similar style of person that tends

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to get the jobs. I think
it's like, like you could look at

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it from that angle, but I
think it's increasingly it's the thing of like,

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okay, well, like so I
was going to like, we got

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Infamous second son in and my first
reaction was to look at it and go

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all right and immediately hand it to
Brad, not for because you know Brad

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has played and reviewed previous Infamous games. Yeah, so it's like, you

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know, it's it's that that thing
of like are we gonna just have continuity

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from year to year from these franchises? And it eventually leads to a situation

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we're like, okay, well,
now there's a game that is very similar

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to Infamous, so that would be
more of a Brad game. And it

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ends up you know, it's like
it's why I review so many shooters and

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stuff like that, and it's it's
led to this situation where you're kind of

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assigning reviews to people who are probably
going to like them, yeah in a

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weird way and or you know,
but at the same time, I think

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they'll actually be keenly aware of a
game's faults as well, because they're experienced

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in the genre and that sort of
stuff. But we've created this problem across

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like this end across the review end
of things, I think on multiple sites

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where uh, the way the system
is built, the way that this is

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all structured, it is not actually
helping anyone as the way it used to,

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right, And it's led to this
situation where like, uh, you

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know, I'd liked for reviews to
be you know, it was it was

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kind of the thing when we started
the site to begin with. It was

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more of that discussion of just like, you know, I want to say

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what I think about a game,
period, and and that's you know,

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and and and you should be able
to do the same thing, and the

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00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.839
rest of you should be able to
do the same separate land. You have

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to like everything because you're you have
to talk to you have to you know,

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talking businesses. Yeah, so it's
probably terrible, Yeah, yeah,

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it's probably terrible. It was probably
even worse before we got there, and

294
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thank god we helped. Yeah,
or the part you were working on got

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cut completely. Well, yeah that
happens too. Yeah. Sometimes you know

296
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you can't save everything right Yeah?
Yeah? Wait, how do we get

297
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:17.279
here again? I don't know BioShock
talking about BioShock, no, not talking

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about bot shock. So with that
in mind, with the system, the

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way the system works, like you
get to a point where like, okay,

300
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you know, like yeah, like
it would be really interesting on in

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some weird way. As someone who
has played as attempted to play every game

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in the Souls series and not liked
it. There were actually people going like,

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00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:37.480
oh, you should do something with
Dark Souls too, And I'm like,

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that's that's a dumb waste of time
in a lot of ways, because

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like I already kind of you know, having seen it, having messed with

306
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the previous games, like, I'm
pretty sure how this will go. And

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I don't want to start a site
that's just like, hey, look at

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this game. I think it sucks. Well you like it? Fuck off?

309
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In like video content and that sort
of stuff. It's not it's not

310
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really necessary, but we've created a
situation where because the reviews get funneled into

311
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.839
this system and because of the way
the audience expects reviews to be, that's

312
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why you get that situation of people
going like this review isn't objective, as

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00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.720
if that's like something you can actually
the highest compliment, like when you tell

314
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:17.920
me my review is not objective,
mission accomplished. That's the kind of the

315
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:21.200
fucking point at this at this stage
in the game, at one point we

316
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.200
were thinking that we were trying to
approach things objectively. It's how you result.

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It's how you got the result of
Majora's Mask getting like an eid or

318
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:32.319
whatever it was. I gave it
while I fucking hate Majora's Mask because I

319
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.559
had to play it, then try
to remove myself from it, and then

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00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.000
like an audience, which is it
for an audience that I don't actually know,

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and then reviewing it like based on
like component scores like graphics and sound,

322
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.079
where you're like, you know,
regardless of my feelings about Major's mask

323
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.680
and whatever, this like computer that
is about to catch on fire over here,

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like the fans spun up real big
yeah it saw it heard Majora's masking

325
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:59.920
with I'm about this game I'm trying
to breakthrough, So like it led to

326
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that situation back in the day,
because that's that's how we were attempting to

327
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.839
run reviews as like okay, well
take take me out of it. And

328
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.839
now we're at a point now where
you have to put more of the people

329
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into it, and then you know, you have to trust the audience to

330
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be smarter, smart enough to deal
with that sort of stuff. So I

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don't know, I think fact like
this is like a it's interesting that there

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00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.599
are people out there trying to approach
it from the criticism perspective coming in,

333
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because like I'm it's something that I
kind of keep thinking about from the reviewer

334
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.720
perspective going out. Uh, And
I don't know if there's a way to

335
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.039
meet in the middle on it,
because at some point, like it's Metacritic

336
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.240
and the industry and like a bunch
of fucking weird shit. Yea that happens

337
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.119
in the middle. Whereas like if
I was writing a review of Madden and

338
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.680
said, this is a really good
football game two stars, because fuck football,

339
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.880
Like who does that help. It's
not it's not fair to the game,

340
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.480
it's the way the system is set
up, Like that's that's really shitty

341
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.400
to do in a weird way.
So I don't know, Like there are

342
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.440
so many other avenues to to get
that content on day one release. Now

343
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.599
release comes and there are one hundred
and fifty people live streaming that game that

344
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.839
you can go watch and probably get
a walkthrough of that game day one and

345
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.720
watch an entire thing and make a
purchasing decision. That when people that know

346
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.759
the game better than like any of
us, any like hype, like hyper

347
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:17.119
like interested, like people like the
Souls Games has that like in spades,

348
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.480
like just like a really attentive communities
that have like not like ambassadors, but

349
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.160
like critics like that are just specific
to like Souls Games and things like that

350
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.160
that like if they can answer your
questions better than we can. So it's

351
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.000
it's an environment that's really odd now
where you have this. You know,

352
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.319
it used to be that you'd get
the magazine and that would have the review

353
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.680
a couple of days early. Like
I don't know what that means. I

354
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.200
don't know what that means. Should
probably for the master system, but like

355
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.480
all I've seen so far, or
a couple of screenshots and a previous magazine

356
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:45.400
like a couple of things from me
three, and then you know, you

357
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:49.440
slowly started getting video previews, and
then you'd get the reviews day one from

358
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.200
websites. And now we've caught up
to where a copy of a game leaks

359
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.440
a week beforehand. Somebody's put up
the entire game. You can go check

360
00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.880
out anything you want, and then
you know, you go read review to

361
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.319
kind of share your opinion on what
you think, not to get buying advice,

362
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:04.799
right, you just go in there
to be like, yeah, full

363
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.200
of shit, like this game should
have got a five, or this game

364
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.960
should have got a three. Yeah, I've made up my mind a month

365
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.599
ago based on the demo pre pre
ordered and pre ordered. Uh, it's

366
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.880
really it's a weird environment and competing
against that with like reviews and stuff.

367
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.240
It's also something we've been thinking about
a lot, like how do you how

368
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.160
do you compete against an environment that
has kind of the same a similar level

369
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.400
of access, if not sometimes better
than the media does. Right, right,

370
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.960
we're like we're embargoed, Yeah,
we're you know today this the posting

371
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.920
of this podcast is one of the
first things we'll do on ground Zeros.

372
00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.119
Meanwhile, like that game leaked like
a week ago or Like I was laughing

373
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.759
when when soft Park came out and
Alex couldn't publish his review until midnight,

374
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.799
Yet I could buy it on Steam
at ten pm and I just could have

375
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.440
started streaming it. Yeah right,
Like what that stuff that like that that

376
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.200
stuff that is slow to change.
You know. It used to be that

377
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.720
all the embargo times, we're like
nine am Pacific and stuff like that.

378
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:04.039
But the midnight releases on Steam and
other stores of definitely that stuff has started

379
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.039
to change. You have more people
going like, all right, run your

380
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:10.079
review and I pm Pacific because it
goes on sale in the East Coast or

381
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:12.200
whatever it is, right, yeah, how do you fix it? Ling?

382
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.359
I think the thing that's super interesting
about criticism in general for games is

383
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:22.440
like I used to always be the
guy who's like someone complains about like money

384
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.799
in the trash Canon, BioShock Infinite
or master Chief can't run or whatever.

385
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:27.440
Yeah, Like I was like,
dude, it's a design decision. It's

386
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.640
just fun or whatever. Right.
I would just like would have rejected wholesale

387
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.200
just I wouldn't even like read it
or listen to because I think, like,

388
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.519
oh, you just don't get how
games get made or whatever. But

389
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.200
I've slowly come around where I really
like it now, and I've been going

390
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.680
back and reading stuff from games I
really liked that people wrote, like five

391
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.960
or six years ago or whatever,
I read this thing an La noir.

392
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:52.240
Maybe it was in The Escapist or
whatever, but it was this guy talking

393
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.960
about how Cole's running everywhere, right, He's running for no reason. He's

394
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.359
just running, running, running,
running, and it's like, yeah,

395
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.839
it's like just it's a mechanical thing. It's like if you you head and

396
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:04.720
he's gonna run you though he's got
no reason to do it. And it

397
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:11.200
was the whole I'm doing a horrible
job describing this great podcast story brouh,

398
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.279
But anyway we like. I mean, if if he walked everywhere, the

399
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:15.960
game would take fucking forever. It
would be long stretches off. You're doing

400
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.960
nothing, and unless you're way into
the atmosphere of it, that's that's yeah.

401
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.920
And it's just there's something you said
for just rejecting those conventions, right

402
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.640
and not accepting the games are what
they are and they always need to be

403
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.839
this way, you know, and
then you can want better things from games

404
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:32.880
and without it's not gonna come like
you're staying from reviews. Right review is

405
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.920
kind of going to tell you,
you know, what you're perceived. ROI

406
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.720
on its value is going to be
right sure, And criticism isn't like that

407
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.400
all. It'll tell you like the
inherent worth of something, you know.

408
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.400
And uh, I used to have
like no place in my life bar but

409
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.319
now I find it's super super interesting. I've been like retroactively reading a lot

410
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.720
of it. Huh. So have
you noticed any trends on on that sort

411
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.799
of stuff. Do you feel like
overall people people are too harsh expect too

412
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.319
much out of games? Yeah,
I mean I do think the pendulums,

413
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.599
like the swing so far the other
way, it feels like I'm purposed a

414
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:03.880
lot of the time, like I'm
gonna, you know, this thing that

415
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.039
everyone loves, I'm gonna tear it
down just because I can. You know,

416
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.240
there's there's that angle to it.
And but like not everything's like that,

417
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.440
and you kind of got to sort
through some of that stuff to find

418
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.720
the well thought out stuff that's like, uh, well I shouldn't say the

419
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.759
other stuff isn't well thought out,
but uh, the stuff that is more

420
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.599
kind of interesting than just like I'm
gonna do a teardown of this super popular

421
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.440
game, cause you know, yeah, so well, what do you think

422
00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:33.319
about, like as somebody who makes
games, the agency that the audience feels

423
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:36.240
like they have in your game,
Like I am part of this, I'm

424
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.440
a consumer. I should you should
do it. I'm I got good ideas.

425
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.599
Yeah, I've come around on this
too. Like I was, say

426
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:47.960
so when I really love the first
Halo, like I was like obsession fanboy

427
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.559
level about it, and I would
go to like Halo dot Bungee dot org,

428
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:53.920
which is like the fan site,
and people would be like writing like,

429
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:59.720
oh, like fictional reasons why master
Chief couldn't sprint, or like or

430
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.759
like fictional reasons why like the medpack
works instantly and he doesn't have to do

431
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.920
stuff right, and like you guys
are more and I'm just getting really angry

432
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:08.559
about it. Right. But then
now and kind of like you know,

433
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.160
however long fifteen years removed or whatever, however long ago that was like,

434
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:17.440
uh, that stuff's really really awesome, right, It's like those are the

435
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.559
people that are super engaged and like
super passionate about what gamemakers do, and

436
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.880
like without them, like everything falls
apart. And so now it's kind of

437
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.319
like when people are out there like
writing their their die Kick stories and the

438
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.200
forums or whatever it's talking about like
this tournament they went to or this thing

439
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:33.400
or this thing. Whereas before I
might just be like, oh man,

440
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.039
this is like the dumbest thing of
all time. Now it's like I'll go

441
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.079
and engage with them. It's amazing, right, And it's it's it's been

442
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:45.400
like the last five years, and
games have been really great about that in

443
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.759
general, Like for in he's getting
to publish and he's get to make their

444
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.160
own games, all the way to
how we interact with people, you know,

445
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.799
like the whole thing is opened up
and fix it every conceivable way,

446
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.440
and I think only good things have
really come from it. Yeah, it's

447
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.039
been. It's been really interesting to
watch because you know that that conduct used

448
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:06.599
to not exist, and you still
run into people like it's one of those

449
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.519
things where you know, like I
you still run into developers that don't read

450
00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.599
anything, that don't know about reviews, anything, website this, that like

451
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.119
they just don't interact with any kind
of community or don't engage with any sort

452
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.920
of discussion of their work at all. And I don't know if maybe those

453
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.640
people just aren't necessarily that into games
to begin with. They're just like,

454
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:26.839
look, man, I just draw
the art. Some of it's a scale

455
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.839
problem, right, Like we're you
know, if dive kick was actually really

456
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.559
popular, it would be impossible to
do that with everybody, right, Like

457
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.799
there's you couldn't hire enough community managers
to do that, and so like,

458
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.279
I don't have no idea how Like
you know, Gearbox stays on top of

459
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:45.240
the Borderland's community and they know what's
a real problem, what people are getting

460
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.200
mad about legitimately, what needs to
get fixed, what doesn't, Because I'm

461
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.240
sure it's just this the signal noise
ratio is so low on everything they hear.

462
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.279
Yeah, but if you don't pay
attention, you're gonna miss so much

463
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.200
good stuff. And I think that's
the revelation recently is like that is now

464
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.680
like you want to figure out instead
of just ignoring it wholesale because that's easy,

465
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:07.200
you want to find a find a
way to mind that for whatever it's

466
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.880
worth, right, And yeah,
it's I have no idea how the big

467
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.480
companies do it, but it's easy
for us because you know, it's different

468
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.799
when one hundred thousand people buy your
game versus you know, seven million,

469
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:19.599
sure, you know, yeah,
I was. One of the guys I

470
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:23.480
talked to this morning was Hugo gr
who's the mission director on like the AC

471
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:30.519
series, and he was Combat,
yes, the highly lucrative ACE Combat series

472
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.480
Assassin's Creed, and on AC three, like there was like one guy assigned

473
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.839
with like figuring out like the lock
picking mechanic that they had in that game

474
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.559
when you would unlock some chess and
it like lock picking is one of those

475
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.240
things in games, unless it's like
a thief or something or probably just games

476
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.559
in general, like you can only
screw it up, right, Like,

477
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.960
no one is going to be like, man, the lock picking is terrific

478
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.960
in this game, Like it's just
not something that's going to get called out,

479
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:57.480
but if it's terrible, like people
are going to say, like the

480
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:00.119
lock picking really sucks, I have
to do all the time. And an

481
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.920
AC three, Uh there was lock
picking in AC three. Yeah, she's

482
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.480
a don't even remember that, Yes, probably remember any of that. Probably

483
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.720
a good thing. And and I
guess, uh he was he was telling

484
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.759
me the story about that guy and
how I guess Kataku ran a story that

485
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.480
was like this big analysis of like, hey, the lock picking in like

486
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.559
AC three is like really cool and
like and that guy like printed that out

487
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.720
and just like walked around the office
with it up, just like screaming,

488
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:33.480
like someone cares really nice. Yeah, yeah, it was really awesome.

489
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.359
That is like one of the infuriating
things about making games, like you'll do

490
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.759
you know what, Like when ever
someone starts and they've never like made a

491
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.400
game professionally before, the thing the
conversation I have with them is like,

492
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.279
listen, over the course of making
this game, we're gonna make thousands and

493
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.559
thousands of decisions. Right, all
we can hope for is that we get

494
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.039
like seventy percent of them, right, That's all. It's all we can

495
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.240
reasonably hope for. And if you
get really obsessed about each little thing,

496
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.680
right, you're gonna drive yourself nuts. But it does really make you mad

497
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.440
when like the team there's like some
decisions that become seem like they're small things

498
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.720
but become big decisions because people are
so invested in the work they've done or

499
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.599
whatever. And like when like the
studio is basically coming to blows over this

500
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.720
thing and then nobody turns out would
have noticed either way, right, Yeah,

501
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.119
it's like this was like a month
of drama in the studio. These

502
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.119
guys are super pissed about this thing
or this thing. These other guys got

503
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:26.880
their way and they're super happy,
and it's not in any review, and

504
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.400
you realize it wouldn't have been in
the review the other way either. The

505
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.440
fuck are we doing with our lives? It's like, oh my god?

506
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.319
What is Are there any examples?
I guess like some of those products are

507
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:37.599
probably still in development you might not
want to talk about, but are there

508
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.839
any examples you can think of?
Yeah? With Third Strike, we spent

509
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:47.640
a lot of time obsessing over just
what should be on the main menu,

510
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:49.920
right, like how many? Like
you can't have six things on the main

511
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:52.759
menu, that's too many, you
know, stuff like that. Yeah,

512
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:56.440
And it was literally like this would
go on for months and months and months

513
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.160
of like people putting them in,
trying it on. It's like wow,

514
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.319
but now it's like six button presses
instead of five to get to the vault.

515
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.240
I don't like that. Maybe we
should separate the challenges in a single

516
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.279
player and multiplayer that way makes them
easier to read. But what if I

517
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.640
want to check my multiplayer challenges when
I'm in a single player, I have

518
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:12.000
to back out to the main man
you go into multiplayer. Yeah, but

519
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.680
who's really gonna do that? No
one's gonna do that, you idiot.

520
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.359
And uh, that's like one where
we argued and argued and argued about it,

521
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.119
and you know, any way we
would have done it would have been

522
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.160
fine. People are like, oh, these challenges are novel. It's kind

523
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.480
of cool. It's kind of like
a neat way to expose like old game

524
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.920
stuff and make you do stuff.
Maybe you didn't do the frost time around,

525
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.640
yeah, huh, but the number
of button presses it takes to get

526
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.880
to the list, it's not necessarily. That's the one that immediately jumps to

527
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:38.039
mind. But there's it's like that
on every game. There's stuff like,

528
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.359
uh, you know, sort of
think of a relevant one I can talk

529
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.200
about, like Borderlands two for the
Vita. You know, like, uh

530
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.200
so if you should be official Sony
and Gearbox are making all Borderlands and Vita

531
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.440
nown Yeah, yeah, I shouldn't
say anything as really says about the Okay,

532
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.960
all right, well I can say
one thing. All right, so

533
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.319
Sony and Gearbox are making all Borderlands
two. Really announcements, but like even

534
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:07.680
something like how you know you you
take. So obviously they use the four

535
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.519
triggers, right right, Okay,
so what do you do with the other

536
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:12.920
two triggers on the Vita? You
know, you look at the other games.

537
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.279
Some people use reard touch, some
people use front touch, and you're

538
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:20.039
like, how contentious that issue was, Like some people are like, oh

539
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.319
I love the weird touch. People
like my fingers just rest on it.

540
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.000
Naturally, you can't use that.
It's like it's like, you know,

541
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:25.640
the next thing, you know,
it's like a guys, we gotta shift

542
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:29.680
this game sometime. Let's just pick
something and go, or you end up

543
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:31.400
with like the worst possible compromise of
like, well, let's just make it

544
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:36.079
user configurable, and then that just
pushes the argument back out to like what

545
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.000
the default behavior is. Generally,
if it gets to that level, it

546
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.799
bubbles up to me and then I
step in and I see which one I

547
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:44.440
like better and make a decision.
I try not to do that, but

548
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.599
that's how those things get solved.
Yeah, man, And uh yeah,

549
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:51.880
we don't make more works for ourselves
when whenever possible, So yeah, doing

550
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.559
let's have both in there. Let
you pick, right, It sounds like

551
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:57.960
bugs waiting to happen. Let's add
more to the men use perfect. Let's

552
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.480
do it. That is my solution
for any time there's any sort of like

553
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.000
we're thinking about adding this feature to
the site and all this other stuff's like,

554
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:05.839
okay, but you need to let
users opt out of this, this,

555
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.160
and this needs to be profile level
setting for this, this, and

556
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.200
then that is like a super interesting
discussion. Like I'm like going back to

557
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.559
the third strike because this is the
thing we've been dealing with the community the

558
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:17.799
longest time. Like there's a bunch
of things there where there's a difference between

559
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:21.599
things that we just think are good. Like we got a lot of feedback

560
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:23.720
on the fake scan line effect.
People like, oh, it doesn't look

561
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:27.880
real enough or doesn't look at whatever, and you should give us an option

562
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:30.480
to change how that looks, make
them fatter or skinny or whatever. I'm

563
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:35.160
like, no, we're happy with
how these look. Iron Galaxy likes these.

564
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.640
We are leaving them as is.
But then there's other stuff in there.

565
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:38.720
It's like, oh, we should
let you know, let them pick

566
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.880
this or this or this. And
it's interesting because my general approach was like

567
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.160
we should do what we think is
best at all times and make it make

568
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:51.200
it like an author or author oil, our authorial decision, real decision of

569
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.640
what we think is best for the
user. But that's actually like a really

570
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.720
slippery slope because if you go down
that too far, then they'll be nothing

571
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.759
left for everybody. Some people have
different taste on stuff, and so letting

572
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.559
pople customiser experience to a point is
like something I'm slowly warming up too.

573
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.159
But some stuff like I appreciate it
when there's a vision from a studio and

574
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:13.440
I'm seeing that vision right, like
there's a zero compromise, like this is

575
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.840
what So I recently played like Lords
of Shadow too, right, and there's

576
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.880
an option and there's just turn off
all the QuickTime events they just play,

577
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.000
and it's like, why would you
put that in there? Do you think

578
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.519
these QuickTime events suck? Like what
are you trying to tell me here?

579
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.000
So I turned them. It just
seems like it was like some quick I

580
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.440
mean, who knows how it actually
went, but that just seems like they

581
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:34.199
focus tested something and people came back
and like some significant numbers said these are

582
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.079
all bullshit, right, I said, well, well, I mean we

583
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.199
already made them all right, So
as soon as you give me the option

584
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:43.280
to turn off. I immediately think, like, well, somebody there thinks

585
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.880
these are not worth doing, and
like that's actually like an incredibly common debate

586
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.519
that I used to have a lot
more in Triple A game development than a

587
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.400
dozen stuff we do now. But
like, do you allow the user to

588
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.039
button through any cutscene they want?
Right? And the thinking is, we

589
00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.880
want we made these and they're awesome, yeah, or we want them to

590
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:02.679
be and we're gonna keep working on
them. Why would we this is what

591
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.039
the game is, why would we
let you button through it? But that's

592
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.239
something where people get so mad if
you can let them bump through a cut

593
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.239
scene, Like if they don't care
about the story at all, if they

594
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.360
just want to drive the car whatever
the fuck it is, Uh, they

595
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.840
just want to get to it,
and you should give them the option to

596
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.119
do it. But it's always something
where it's like, you know, the

597
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.280
guys that spend basically a year or
two years ago was making these cinematics and

598
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.840
this is crap, and I totally
understand why to be mad about it.

599
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.639
But I think that's an instance where
you know, don't try to tell the

600
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:35.079
user what the game should be to
them. You know, like there's a

601
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:38.199
fine line between that vision and the
experience. Sure, that's yeah, that

602
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:44.840
that the mix stuff user like research
group persons talking to we like her talk

603
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.400
was all about like like enhancing narrative
in games through like you know, data

604
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.559
analysis like that was it was like
always let them skip the cut scene,

605
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.239
Like it doesn't matter how long you've
worked on it, Like, just let

606
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:57.960
them skip the cut scene because half
your audience doesn't care that you're game.

607
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.880
Because the way she was talking about
was like like a lot of her group

608
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.960
was spending time figuring out like when
you ask the player, like did you

609
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.440
like the story in this game?
And even if they said yes, when

610
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.079
you actually try and figure out what
that means, players are very bad at

611
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.519
expressing what that means, Like does
that mean like the cut scene story?

612
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.079
Does that mean like they enjoyed the
missions and their experience? Thus that was

613
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:21.440
the story? Is it? The
characters like and and different people might say

614
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:23.239
like I really like the story,
but it had nothing to do with the

615
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:25.880
cut scenes. That's part of it
too, is because like developers have very

616
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.480
specific language, we've evolved to mean
different things, right, and we assume

617
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.400
we get feedback that everyone is using
the same language and that's not the case

618
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.119
of the players have no idea,
Like dev language is like probably that came

619
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.880
up at the criticism conferences, like
dev language has like gotten so into the

620
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.880
weeds and like writing about games like
it's so useless, like it doesn't help

621
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.800
anyone. And like if, like
even in my own any of our own

622
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.519
writing, I bet if you looked
at a paragraph, like the amount of

623
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:54.559
jargon in there is like awful,
I can put a gun to your head

624
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.960
and just like shoot yourself. I
feel like we get to cut some of

625
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.559
those corners because we're talking to a
smaller and like more engaged audience than like

626
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:06.239
game Spot. You know who's just
like someone who someone cruises into that site.

627
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.320
They know jack fuck about games.
They just hear the titan Fall is

628
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:12.559
coming out. They want to know
what it is to loop. Yeah,

629
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.599
let's talk about the loop Like that's
you know the number of times I've seen

630
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:22.920
people refer to a build. Yeah, in like mainstream game writing, I'm

631
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.559
like, that's what the fuck are
you talking about? Think about this IP

632
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.679
is the one that bothers me and
I've done that before and like just I

633
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.840
feel okay about it. In like
a more casual setting, like a podcast

634
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.679
or that sort of thing, but
the writing end of it seems different.

635
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.480
It's why that Strider review went off
without me saying Metroid Vanya in it.

636
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:43.599
That's a bad one thing, you
know. I was just like this this

637
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.440
assumes. It's why the titan Fall
review doesn't talk about the Brink campaign,

638
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.280
which is sort of similarly structured.
But no one fucking played Brink, so

639
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.559
that doesn't help anyone. Yes,
Brink Vanyas are very hot this year.

640
00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:00.639
They've all got weird, long,
britishy faces to stop watch most what Igarashi

641
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:06.239
left to go do? We get
tired of Metroid Mania Universe. I think

642
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:09.000
it's that though, that makes the
mixed developers think that the audience is more

643
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:12.599
like savvy than it is, right, because like, this is why you

644
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.320
need to engage with people who play
you a game, because like you get

645
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.119
feedback from someone the story stunk,
Right, It's like, okay, story

646
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.719
stunk. I'm gonna go blame the
writers. Well, how about I talk

647
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.239
to this person longer. It turns
out they just don't like like the way

648
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:28.960
the facial animation on the main character. It's not actually story really did at

649
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:30.880
all, Right, It's just it's
an element of how it was executed.

650
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.639
Yeah, and if I didn't spend
that time to talk to him about that,

651
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:36.880
like nine, don't got to yell
at the right or I gotta yelled

652
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:38.960
the facial animation guy or not.
Actually I'm gonna go yell at him anymore

653
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:42.800
because the players are really bad.
And that's what the researcher was time,

654
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.119
was like they're horrible at articlate.
Like one of the class examples I heard

655
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:49.960
from a guy a Bungee once was
like they were play testing it's one of

656
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.599
the Halo games and this guy is
just like an over like dude, the

657
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.079
shotgun is overpowered. The shotgun is
overpowered, and like it was actually it

658
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.960
was just the pistol was underpowered,
right, like, but the player doesn't

659
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.920
know that. But then the designer
to send out interpret like player language which

660
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.760
doesn't know all the variables like and
the shot gun. Yeah, it's like

661
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.079
shot guns not the problem, the
pistols the problem, and then everything feels

662
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.360
okay. Yeah. That's like the
stuff Microsoft does with their usability labs is

663
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:16.119
amazing because if you can you watch
someone play, then they have like cameras

664
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:20.840
on the controller, cameras on their
face and then the gameplay, and then

665
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.599
you see their survey after and if
you go back and compare like the stuff

666
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:27.760
they complain about and then watch them
experienced it in game, there's a lot

667
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.199
of aha moments there. Right,
it's like, oh, okay, so

668
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:35.280
you know he thought this mission was
a long and kind of boring. That

669
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.639
was his feedback, but he didn't
tell me verbally about the five minutes he

670
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:42.159
spent his rooms running around in a
circle, right, And it's like that's

671
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.639
what. So the real problem is
they just have to make this room cleaner.

672
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:45.880
You know, I feel like light
the exit or whatever it is,

673
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.880
right, because yeah, it's it's
you can't trust. It's like, you

674
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.239
know, the the old writing thing
where they say don't trust the teller,

675
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:57.039
trust the tale, like don't trust
what the gamer is telling you trust their

676
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.280
playthrough and watch that and you learn
so much more from that than talking to

677
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.760
him most of the time. So
so do you have any like data analytics,

678
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.639
like any analytics tools built into any
of your games? Like do you

679
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:09.639
get stuff back ever and just go
like, oh, okay, we're seeing

680
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:15.159
you know this is being picked more
than this or you know, like none

681
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.320
of these options are happening. It's
like the EA does some of that stuff.

682
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:20.639
I'm not sure what data they actually
get out of it. We had

683
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:22.920
we had some pretty good data built
in the records here, but then no

684
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.599
one played it, so there's actually
none. That's an important data point though.

685
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:30.199
That's yeah, an ample size too
small, So we we got any

686
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.119
more of those download codes, that's
the thing. Yeah, actually, I

687
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:36.119
do we spent We spent all this
time like putting on out all this time.

688
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:37.199
We spent a non trivial amount of
time that could have been used to

689
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.239
polish in the game. We're making
it better or whatever, but we spent

690
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.239
some time like putting in staffs,
putting in hooks, figuring out like,

691
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:45.760
hey, what shots are people doing
well with? You know, all this

692
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.199
kind of like uh, you know, a hair of like hair short of

693
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:51.840
like hot spots on levels and things
like that, but a lot of stuff,

694
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:53.320
and it would have helped us,
like you know, refine the DLC

695
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:55.639
and do stuff. But then so
you look at that, it's like,

696
00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.039
wow, we invested a lot of
time and money in that absolutely zero payoff,

697
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.360
So okay, we're not gonna do
that again. And then with Third

698
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.360
Strike it would have been super useful
to see how people are playing the game

699
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:08.480
online, right, you know,
so it's like we always guess and we

700
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:13.920
always guess wrong. I think I
think what we need as a next speak

701
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:15.800
for the like for Iron Galaxy,
what we need is we need like an

702
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:21.960
independent UH system that we just developed
that we can put in games we develop

703
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.239
for other people. Right, And
that's always like thorny legally and you have

704
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:28.039
to like clear it with people.
But I think if we could do that

705
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.360
over time, our games as a
whole would be much much better. Yeah.

706
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:34.400
But you know when when most of
the stuff you do is for other

707
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.280
people, that's not always easy.
Yeah, because there's no just like analytics

708
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:42.039
middleware, is there there's stuff that
does it like like you could use UH

709
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:45.800
like you like, I guess the
closest thing you can probably use is telemetry

710
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.559
by Bank that's mostly used for performance
capture, but you could use that to

711
00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:52.960
you know, harness game stats and
or whatever it is. Unreal has also

712
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:57.840
gotta bunch stuff built into it,
uh and then you can like actually post

713
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.639
a server online and have it all
posted to the air and stuff. But

714
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:02.960
you know that's all time and the
energy and then yeah, time you're trying

715
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:07.440
to get the game done. So
it's tricky, but it's one of those

716
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.920
things that academically I know it would
make everything we do better, but it's

717
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.280
always something that's really hard to cost
in time justify and more more more difficult

718
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.360
to time justify than costs justify,
because like I know, I see these

719
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.480
problems in the game here. I
don't need someone to tell me what's broken

720
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:24.079
with the game. This ship here
is broken, don't think of that.

721
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:29.440
And then you know two days before
it's ships were done and everything comes together.

722
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.079
Yeah, it's like, oh great, would have been nice to put

723
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:35.039
some cooks in there. Oh well
yeah maybe next time. Yeah, there's

724
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.920
just no shortage of stuff you know
is broken in the game. And so

725
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:42.639
that's why, Yeah, how many
bugs on average of of course for your

726
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.760
career, how many crash bugs do
you know about in games that you worked

727
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:52.960
on that that made it through?
So I bet there's uh, every game

728
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.159
is different, Every game is different, stakes, But I would say on

729
00:42:55.480 --> 00:43:00.599
like and the stuff we've done in
the last and it's just say the stuff

730
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.440
we've done for Capcom, let's look
at those, right, Okay, So

731
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:06.760
it's like real small, it's just
a port of like an old game that

732
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.519
you know, we do our little
wrapper around and make it cool or whatever.

733
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:13.360
Each of those has like ten in
them, wow, and they're hard

734
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.400
to get two or whatever, like
uh, someone eventually finds them and then

735
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.920
it's like you gotta patch it.
And if there's ten I know about,

736
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.360
there's probably ten I don't know about, you know, and fixing those ten

737
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.440
will create another ten or Yeah,
it's it's just one of those things,

738
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:30.000
like you it's really shitty for the
person who discovers that bug, right,

739
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:31.960
Like it doesn't it's like cold comfort
for them. But it's one of those

740
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.880
things where it's like, hey,
we can spend like to fix that problem.

741
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:42.280
So if whatever X percent of our
budget is assigned a QA and DEV

742
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.239
to fix QA found issues, right, we would have to x two x

743
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.719
times two that to make sure we
eradicate all those issues right. And if

744
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:52.800
we do that, then the game
is shitty, right because we don't have

745
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.480
less, we have fewer features.
It's a game just not as polished or

746
00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.599
other things are just missing. Right. And so for the vast majority of

747
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.920
people, like for ninety five percent
of the people at least, that's the

748
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.280
correct decision because they end up with
a much better experience. But for the

749
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.559
five percent people to find those things, it's shitty. And but you know,

750
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:10.760
all you can do is like,
oh, this is more widespread than

751
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.880
we thought. We got to patch
this right away or fix it or whatever

752
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:16.639
it is. And so, you
know, I don't think it's something anyone

753
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.159
in the industry is particularly proud about. But it's that kind of like,

754
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:23.440
you know, human calculus, you
just have to do right. Yeah.

755
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:29.159
Yeah. Cool. Also, I'm
a you know, business machine who doesn't

756
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:30.800
feel pain and human emotions. No, exactly, cold to the world,

757
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:32.920
you know, like, oh,
this is this thing you spent money on

758
00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:37.440
broke, Yeah, bummer should have
thought of that, I guess because before

759
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.320
you bought it. Yeah, maybe
he checked it before you bought. You

760
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:44.440
couldn't do that, That's right,
That's right. You couldn't caveat into our

761
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.440
motherfucker. That's That's why I'm at
a point where I just assume every game

762
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:50.679
ship's broken because they do so smart. Well, I just buy another one.

763
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.519
I hope that one works right,
good call. Yeah, yeah,

764
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:59.639
this one's obviously we should hang out. Couldn't work this time. This one's

765
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.480
gonna work way better. I'll buy
it on PC instead. This is this,

766
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:06.920
but that might actually solve the problem. Vitty, How has it been

767
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.159
for you this last week? It's
been fantastic. Yeah, never been better.

768
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:13.719
What have you been doing? What
do you play? Anything? I

769
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.559
did? I played? I played
some Stick of Truth. Okay, that's

770
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:21.280
okay, and I think that's all
right, just all right. Yeah,

771
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.239
I didn't get that deep into it
and uh, kind of just stayed in

772
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.760
the fighting there the elves. Yeah. Have you not played it since we

773
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.119
talked about that? Yeah? No, no, that was your problem.

774
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.800
Yeah, I was playing it wrong, So apparently I was playing wrong.

775
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.280
But everything's okay, man, okay, Uh, and what are you doing

776
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:43.159
wrong? I was not. I
was kind of trying to, like I

777
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:49.480
do find every hidden object, not
do the main Yeah, that's that game,

778
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.400
the game, the classes under its
own weight if you don't just keep

779
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:53.880
going through all the cool like funny
stuff. Yeah, so I kind of

780
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:58.119
got bored, like just the over
world battles that were like nothing in that.

781
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.039
You don't need to grind in that
game at all. Yeah, you

782
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:01.880
hit the level cap just with the
main bat Nothing in that game is repeatable.

783
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.960
You don't want to keep doing the
same thing. Because it'll get old

784
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.480
fast. But then I just played
more Dark Souls too. I'm cruising.

785
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:14.280
How's that pen? Has there any
large breakthroughs? Like? How different is

786
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:19.000
that game from the previous game?
What's what? What's up? Where are

787
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.320
you on it now? Is it
harder? Easier? I still think I

788
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.639
still think it's a little bit easier, okay, And I know there's a

789
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.800
there's hot the beat happen whether it
is or not. And I think different

790
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:36.400
people obviously are playing it differently.
And I talk to Ian who finished the

791
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:37.840
game, and he said, you
know, it's probably on par He said,

792
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.639
I will run into a lot of
trouble later on, coming up with

793
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.559
the way I'm playing it, Like, yeah, it's the way I'm playing.

794
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.039
It's kind of brute forcing it a
lot of armor, big shields,

795
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:50.280
big swords. Hey, come hit
me, I'll hit you back. But

796
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.159
I hit harder than you do,
so I'm gonna win. He said,

797
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.800
I will run into trouble later on, so we'll see. And uh,

798
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.320
the more I play it, there
there are differences and it's funny too kind

799
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.639
of play it. Uh, And
now have everybody, now that the game

800
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:07.719
is out, have everybody kind of
hitting me up as I'm like I don't

801
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.519
get this, and people being like, well duh, they changed this but

802
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.880
didn't tell you. It'd be like, oh, well how'd you find out?

803
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.639
Like so, you know, I
know a guy my uncle works for

804
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:23.199
from software and Nintendo. Yeah,
he'say slalomn too. It's great. So

805
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.280
there are different stats and uh that
you can put points into now and that

806
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:31.800
is there a useless one again stats? Yeah? Well is there. I've

807
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:36.360
only played like a ninety minutes,
so I don't think origin the original thinking

808
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:38.480
was no, But I don't know
if you've noticed, in the last couple

809
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.239
of days, people have turned on
adaptability pretty hard. Oh. I don't

810
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:45.440
think anybody has ever gone from it's
useless. I feel like day one people

811
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:47.000
were like, yeah, man,
that's the one if you want to raise

812
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.400
your shield up quickly. What I'm
saying is that apparently it doesn't do as

813
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.639
many things as people thought it did. Oh that's turn yeah. Oh no,

814
00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:00.199
it's not useless, but it's not
useful. Well apparently it's still sort

815
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:01.719
of works, like it does make
you drink flasks faster and stuff like that.

816
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:06.519
That, Like people were testing the
thing about oh there's extra invistibility frames

817
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:07.679
in the role. When you do
that, it's like that apparently is not

818
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:12.559
the case. That's funny. There's
a lot of this information still flying around

819
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:17.880
out there because what resistance was the
useless stat uh so stuff like that I'm

820
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:24.840
finding very different of like especially if
you're coming out this game with a preconceived

821
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:28.760
notions of like what the points are
you should be putting in being like I

822
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.280
don't get why this is? How
did this just work? Like some things

823
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:37.719
like well what would you call them? Like status effects? Right? Yeah,

824
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:42.199
like, hey, you're cursed or
poisoned or are very different now than

825
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.679
they were in other games. So
going in being like I'm cursed and like

826
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:47.559
the Dark Souls one was a terrible, terrible thing and you would fuck up

827
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:52.199
your game for like four hours,
And this just seems like, yeah,

828
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:54.559
not big deal, just kills you
or something maybe like makes your health a

829
00:48:54.599 --> 00:49:00.079
little lower that one time. But
the stuff I heard beforehand about you're gonna

830
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:05.119
get invaded constantly, like whether you're
alive or dead. I have not been

831
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:12.320
invaded once I've been down the two
times I've played it oh times since,

832
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.000
not since like the day the day
one. Stuff has a server been down

833
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.480
for me, but not invaded once. Yeah, I like spots that are

834
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.280
zones that like, hey, dude, you're in an invasion zone. Just

835
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.039
kind of tooling around the world like
not really. And I've been playing.

836
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:30.519
I've been alive a bunch, I've
been dead a bunch. It's really interesting.

837
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:36.039
I really enjoy it. It's I
think this game is more accessible,

838
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.199
but I have played a bunch of
the other ones, so it's kind of

839
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:42.239
I've lost my perspective on it.
I don't know that's all you can make

840
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.599
once you've been through the two other
games already, you know. Yeah,

841
00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:46.000
but it does seem I think there
is. There are mechanics in it that

842
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:52.360
are, uh, make it easier
for new players. I think the fast

843
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:57.760
travel is one of them. I
think the combination of est this flash,

844
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.920
which is a renewable healing item,
plus just having a consumable healing items,

845
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:04.519
that combination, I think it makes
it a little easier, and the same

846
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.360
thing with some spell stuff. I
think it makes it a little more accessible.

847
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:09.639
Easier's not the right word, but
yeah, I really enjoy it.

848
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:13.519
Brady, you've played more. I'm
not nearly as far as you are,

849
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.840
but yeah, I spent a lot
of time on Saturday dropping my summon sign

850
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:19.880
and helping people out with bosses.
That's fun. You've never done that before?

851
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:21.519
Yeah, it seems a lot.
I've been. I've been on the

852
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:23.159
shitty end of invasions, you know
a few times. But is that a

853
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:25.559
way to grind? Yes? Yeah, you do get souls out of the

854
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:29.400
helping people beat bosses. But also
it was just kind of fun going in,

855
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:31.440
Like I was helping mostly with the
Pursuer and the Sentinels, and it's

856
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:35.199
like, yeah, these were shitty
bosses to fight by yourself. What a

857
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.320
huge pain in the ass they were
before, Like oh, now I can

858
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:38.960
go in and help somebody out and
they're going to have less of a shitty

859
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.559
time with it. So when Brad
and I were playing before release and the

860
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:45.440
servers were down, you know,
you're soloing the whole game, right,

861
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:49.000
And there were definitely fights I was
in during that time that I was like,

862
00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.000
yeah, this is a multi person
fucking fight. This sucks. And

863
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.639
now that I'm playing, as soon
as I hit a roadblock, I just

864
00:50:55.800 --> 00:51:00.440
go summon two dudes and we try
and take on the boss and it is

865
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:05.119
much more playable and much easier to
get past hurdles that way you summon.

866
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.119
I didn't summon it at all in
Dark Souls, Like it felt like it

867
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:12.079
was cheapening the experience to some degree. I will say some of the bosses

868
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.760
that are insanely hard in this by
yourself are complete pushovers with like three that's

869
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:19.480
the thing, like like O and
s right, like that's constantly and Dark

870
00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.719
Souls a scene is like like some
of those difficult boss because it's two boss

871
00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:28.360
using that lingo again, Man,
yeah, and I did that. It's

872
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.079
combat and I did that by myself, and like, but I would see

873
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:35.599
why it would be super simple and
more approachable with two people, but it

874
00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:38.880
seemed to sort of defeat the purpose
of like having to really study out that

875
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:42.119
boss's strategy. Like I get why
you would do it. Like I'm not

876
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:45.480
saying like playing the game wrong,
but like so it depends what you want,

877
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:46.159
right, yeah, Like if you
want to put it in the game,

878
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:47.920
they put it in the game for
people to use it, you know,

879
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:51.599
Like it's I'm I'm not saying it's
wrong to you, but I do

880
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:53.840
think you you get a little less
out of like you don't have to learn

881
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:58.400
the boss as much. Yeah,
like you you can throw away parts of

882
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:01.199
what you're you know, the tells
of a boss because someone can you know,

883
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:05.480
take his attention away like I make. I make no claims to being

884
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:07.079
very good at this game or good
at games in general, So I'm not

885
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:09.800
looking for a badge of honor for
like, you know, I soloed this

886
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:14.880
boss and like didn't take a hit, and like when I try a couple

887
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:16.280
of times and if it's like fuck, I'm either going to put this game

888
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:20.880
down where I just go summon some
dudes, let's let's move on. I've

889
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:22.760
got a kid that's gonna wake up
in an hour. Like we need to

890
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:27.119
get through more than and there in
this game. So yeah, to your

891
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:30.719
point, J if you can grind
on these bosses and grind on these bosses,

892
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:36.159
yeah, but there are met like
an order of ten, I'd say

893
00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:42.239
more times more bosses than this.
There's like forty, and they're smaller and

894
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:45.039
they range from like small to its
really hard. But like you can find

895
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:50.599
any place within a half hour of
a session that you're hitting a boss,

896
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:52.400
hitting a boss, hitting a boss
and putting down that sign and jumping in

897
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:55.199
there. And I've done it too, I've put down signs being like this

898
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:58.679
is shitty. Boss man summoned me, like we'll go in there. I'm

899
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:01.119
like way higher. Well then you'll
probably be on this boss. Let's just

900
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.159
go fuck him up. I'll fuck
this boss up all day long because it's

901
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:07.039
a piece of shit. And that's
been fun. And there are a couple

902
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:13.639
of bosses that are some people use
the term puzzle boss, but I might

903
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.639
be using it wrong, but they
are just like weird events that happen,

904
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:19.639
and like, once you know those
events, helping a dude out with that

905
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.519
boss becomes super easy because he or
she might not know what to do.

906
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.039
You know, dude, I know
what the fucking dude check this out.

907
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:27.840
You just stay in a corner and
like pull this lever, hit this thing,

908
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:32.239
and like boss is done. And
so what happens when you fight a

909
00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:36.239
boss and you summon guys in.
They can die as long as you don't

910
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:37.159
die. The battle is still going, right, So you can have like

911
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:40.440
two other dudes rolling with you.
I think it's a maximum too, and

912
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:45.280
they can get picked off, but
you're still fighting, right. So for

913
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:46.679
one boss that I was having such
a hard time, but the boss was

914
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:51.000
killing me in one shot every time
I just couldn't get near it. I

915
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:52.639
just hung back and was like,
go get them guys, and I'm just

916
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:55.639
gonna sucking like hit throw arrows and
then I'm gonna come in when the health

917
00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:58.679
is one hit away, and I'm
gonna come in and steal the glory and

918
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:00.840
like take the shot. But uh
yeah, because as soon as I got

919
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.719
hit, I would die and they
they get a two guys, like the

920
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:07.400
one guy just went right out of
the fight you got the other guy was

921
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:09.599
real close to dying. And I
came in and finally tried. I was

922
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.679
like, fucking, we're not gonna
win this. He's gonna die. And

923
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.239
we beat it. But they definitely
did the lion share of the work on

924
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:20.440
that, and like, like Patrick, you were saying, like I did

925
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:22.840
not feel like I was an ACE
player, but I was like, hey

926
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.239
man, we did it. Let's
move on. Like I don't want to

927
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:28.760
stay, I don't want to spend
three days on this boss. I want

928
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.800
to get going on here. And
I think that stuff right now, it's

929
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:36.079
weird. It's such a it's such
a community driven game. Like you those

930
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.599
people were not online, it would
be a very different experience and Brad and

931
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:44.119
I were talking about this this morning. Having not getting gotten invaded might just

932
00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:49.000
be that the odds are less likely
because so many people are playing, whereas

933
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:52.360
like when you go back into Dark
soulis one now you and like five other

934
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:54.159
dudes are playing right right and it's
like you wall, yeah, probably getting

935
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:55.840
Also, I mean, I think
you know, the game is still new

936
00:54:55.880 --> 00:55:00.480
to everybody right now, so most
people are just playing the content, so

937
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:02.039
not not going around trying to troll
other people might be. But even so,

938
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:05.760
if you're going to try and get, you know, invade somebody,

939
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:07.440
so many people are playing that your
odds are probably lear. But yeah,

940
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.079
how do you guys feel about the
stuff? Like Dead Nation came out on

941
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:14.039
PS four, it's got that kind
of like interactive stream stuff because kind of

942
00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:16.639
one of the things that was the
promise of Sony's set up is eventually having

943
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:21.239
kind of more interactive stuff. Like
you know, in this game, you're

944
00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:23.280
literally summoning other people into the world
to help. But what if it was

945
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:29.280
something like people watching you want to
stream could throw in assist items or like

946
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.840
messages on the ground occasionally help you
in the fight in various ways. Whether

947
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:37.440
it was like kind of guiding you
in the right direction or throwing out items.

948
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:38.679
Does that feel like it's over the
line for you and that would be

949
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:44.800
like too much like cheating. I
think if they could like hashtag do something

950
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:46.760
and write one of those messages on
the ground in an area that you're in

951
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:52.320
to help you out, that would
be cool. I think maybe dropping items

952
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.239
so it happens if you leave a
message underground, other people see them in

953
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:59.760
their world and they can rate it
and in your world you get I think

954
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:04.199
more health or something like so that
kind of does happen. Yeah, I

955
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.360
think if people could just spam like
health buffs or something like that in a

956
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:09.760
chat, he probably have to do
it within reason. I mean, you

957
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:13.519
have to try to balance around it, right. It sounds like what's like

958
00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:15.880
that horror game that Atlas is coming
out of Daylight where you can you can

959
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:19.679
use the Twitch chat to trigger things, but they're on a cool down,

960
00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.039
right, So it's not it's it's
not like you're just making like a million

961
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:24.960
ghosts. However, the games like
a Dead Nation for you know, like

962
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:30.320
it's not a great game, but
you know it basically basically every checkpoint or

963
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:34.599
two, it'll pop up with something
for the stream voter like people to vote

964
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:36.840
on and it'll be like it'll like
do you want to make it harder?

965
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:37.599
Do you want to make it easier? It's basically what it comes down to.

966
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:40.360
It's like, do you want to
give them some health or spawn a

967
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:45.800
bunch of fast zombies? What do
you think? It seems like this is

968
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:50.440
going to be a gimmick that gets
poorly exploited in especially after the like Twitch

969
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:52.679
place Pokemon stuff, Like, yeah, people are going to do a bunch

970
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:57.119
of like twitches, get to streaming
can influence like what's happening, and I

971
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.400
think it's going to be really shitty
in most experience. I feel like there's

972
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:05.039
got to be some cool ways.
I think that in the Dark Souls example,

973
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.039
going to the other end of the
spectrum of what you proposed would be

974
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:12.480
really cool because and what I mean
is instead of spawning like healing items,

975
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.519
like being able to influence where the
enemy spawn or like what comes at you.

976
00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:20.119
Because as much as people talk about
learning like the boss patterns and stuff,

977
00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:22.480
those games are just as much about
learning like what leads up to the

978
00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:25.039
bosses. You know, like every
time you run an area, the enemies

979
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:28.159
are in the exact same places.
It's like, all right, when I

980
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.639
go through this one gate, the
one guy's gonna jump down and run at

981
00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:31.159
me, and then the other guy
will come from the left, like it's

982
00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:35.519
identical every time. Yeah, So
if that could be randomized to some degree

983
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:38.039
or like people could mess with how
the level comes at you, like,

984
00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:42.000
it would give a whole lot of
extra replay value to some of those areas.

985
00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:46.360
And something like the Souls games,
I can see that fitting in there,

986
00:57:46.519 --> 00:57:52.920
particularly because they have done in the
past just weird things with multiplayer in

987
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:55.719
right, it's like a particular area, right like in Demon Souls, one

988
00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:00.199
of the bosses was a player controlled
character, right like it just you hit

989
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:02.920
the boss battle and it's summoned another
player into your world to fight. And

990
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.039
they had the world tendency stuff right
where it's like, this area is gonna

991
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.159
be harder because everybody keeps sucking dying
here and like, well that sucks.

992
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:15.840
So yeah, I think those are
games that would definitely lend themselves to that

993
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:17.679
kind of external influence, you know, and then you can just yank your

994
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:22.239
internet plug if you don't want to
deal with it, yeah, I mean,

995
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:23.639
you know, just or you know, only let it happen if you're

996
00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:27.440
streaming the game or something, because
that's the only time and people could watch

997
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.079
anyway. You know, there seems
like there's plenty of ways around it.

998
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.880
But so far, I think that
series I've kind of avoided looking at too

999
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:39.599
much online, but I'm liking it, and I feel like the reception is

1000
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:43.599
I mean, what a fucking hard
game to launch, right, Like,

1001
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:47.000
you're talking about this thing that became
this beloved went from a cult status to

1002
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:52.880
kind of bigger mainstream but so many
passionate people. Something like we were talking

1003
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.760
before about having agency and designer don't
fuck it up. But it looks like

1004
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.239
that series is doing fun and I
wouldn't be a surprised we saw more coming

1005
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:01.920
from it in the future. It
didn't look like well I mean, I

1006
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:05.960
mean they said like this engine is
designed for next gen, so like they

1007
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:08.320
will make another Souls game, and
you know, the original guys off making

1008
00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:12.480
something. Yeah, it just it
doesn't seem like they sucked it up,

1009
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.480
but they changed a bit. But
in weird ways, that to me is

1010
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:21.239
that's a victory, right Like,
if you have this thing that people love

1011
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:22.960
so much and are able to change
it and still have them be like,

1012
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:25.800
yeah, man, good job,
Like you didn't fuck it up, but

1013
00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:29.519
you made it different. Like that's
I think that's a big victory. You

1014
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.599
see, they're gonna say something about
this lighting nonsense next week. Don't say

1015
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:37.360
anything. They are that was according
to Kataka, they're going to release some

1016
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.280
sort of statement next week about it. What's the lighting thing? I don't

1017
00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:45.559
really think about this. This is
like like all all the preview builds that

1018
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:49.719
they showed had like a lighting model
in it that were was showing, like

1019
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:52.679
was it like torches flickering off walls
and sort of stuff that didn't make it

1020
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:54.719
into the final game. So that's
kind of there's been a ground swell of

1021
00:59:54.760 --> 01:00:00.599
people saying like this was like intentional
deceit. Well that's I thought you were

1022
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:02.559
talking about something. I thought you
mean you were talking about that light.

1023
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:07.760
No, no, no, Like
Dave's a good person to ask about sort

1024
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.760
of like this sort of stuff,
like the this is like a pre released

1025
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:12.880
demo that had like a lighting engine
with the torches, and then it just

1026
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.960
disappeared. I mean there's geometry changes, there's some text or changes, like

1027
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:19.519
it's more than just a torch stuff. But like the kind of stuff that

1028
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:23.079
changes in a pre release build that
is even even played versus the retail stuff.

1029
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:30.159
I mean, no one is gonna
willfully do I shouldn't say no one,

1030
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:32.440
I should be careful. I say
this so it's hard to imagine a

1031
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:35.960
world in which you would spend a
lot of time and energy knowing you're gonna

1032
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:37.760
throw away something just to trick some
money, right Like, it would be

1033
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:40.840
hard to get the team motivated to
do that. It would be hard to

1034
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:45.119
like justify spending that money. How
do you sell the higher ups on we

1035
01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:47.599
should we should trick these people into
spend the money to develop this stuff and

1036
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:51.559
then flush it. Yeah, it's
really just like they just aimed a little

1037
01:00:51.559 --> 01:00:53.239
too high, got too close to
the sun, had to pull back the

1038
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.360
last minute, and maybe they can
you know, make some use of that

1039
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:00.960
tech going forward. It's like I
would nine times out of one hundred,

1040
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:05.239
I'm sure that's what this is,
right Like, there's some very like public

1041
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:07.719
examples of this recently, But I
guess I would be stunned if like this

1042
01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:13.679
was some like bizarro like you had
a PR stunt, I'd be shocked.

1043
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:15.679
And that seems like that's you know, the it's it's similar stuff happening around

1044
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:20.079
Watchdogs when they showed her off recently, Like the stuff they were showing didn't

1045
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.519
I thought that, like polygonn article
was the funniest thing of all time.

1046
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.079
God, I was laughing my ass
off when I read that, Like,

1047
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:28.360
oh yeah, the game just wasn't
fun yet, Like that was like the

1048
01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:30.119
like the head, like the head, the big shocking quote out of it.

1049
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:32.920
Yeah, we've got to push this
back because it wasn't fun. Yeah,

1050
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:36.000
let me get this straight. So
the game wasn't fun yet and it

1051
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:40.679
got delayed. That's color me stunned. Yeah. Yeah, but people we're

1052
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:45.239
at there talking about like just like
visual quality, like differences now that it's

1053
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:50.960
like not some like target render that
they created when to inspire the team or

1054
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:53.719
whatever, or something that's running on
a PC before the console. Remember that

1055
01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:58.760
maddened video before they did their first
three sixth run, Yes, where it's

1056
01:01:58.840 --> 01:02:04.280
like Michael straight and yeah, games
still don't even look look like that.

1057
01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:07.719
To set the record straight with respected
Dark Souls, like the narrative is like

1058
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:10.280
nobody knew until it came out that
any of these things have changed like that

1059
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:15.280
build me and Vinnie went and played
like what's six weeks ago. Yeah,

1060
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:19.079
probably that was like basically the shipping
build, like well that is exactly what

1061
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:22.119
we played when it came out,
and they gave us and they gave us

1062
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.519
b roll of that build. Like
there was media of the final game out

1063
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:29.239
there like weeks before release. So
people keep talking about was there a demo

1064
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:32.960
for there was the beta, There
was the wastest network. So I always

1065
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:36.519
imagine that it was just like,
you know, stress the system as much

1066
01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:37.760
as you can, and like,
this is a network test and we want

1067
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:42.199
to test that stuff. I didn't
notice the lighting stuff until people's side,

1068
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:44.559
but did side by side stuff on
me anything? Whatever it is, to

1069
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.599
me, it looks like, yeah, man, that I hope the PC

1070
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:50.440
version looks like some of that other
stuff because it looks fantastic. But that

1071
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:52.360
to me that I mean, you
know, all I can do is where

1072
01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:53.440
I speculate, But that just looks
like the sort of thing where they you

1073
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:57.159
know, this is a series that
has had frame right trouble in the past.

1074
01:02:57.280 --> 01:02:59.119
Yeah, I would not be shocked
if they looked at it and when

1075
01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:00.480
like, you know this the sliding
stuff looks all right, but we can't

1076
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:06.679
the performance is not there. There
was also like the theory that holding the

1077
01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.119
torch would be like required in sections. So like someone like you, right,

1078
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:13.599
who like is a big armor build
holding a shield, like it would

1079
01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:16.639
force you to act differently because you
need to hold a torch to get through

1080
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:19.599
there, like, and there's only
the one that the Tomb of the Giants

1081
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.639
and Dark Souls where you have to
hold that, but that's everybody, right,

1082
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:23.960
Like, so part one of the
theories is that, like, well

1083
01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:30.400
they would took that out because that
just unfairly punishes certain builds just because uh,

1084
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.880
they like to hold a shield or
something like that, and suddenly they

1085
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:36.119
can't play the game the way they
like to play it. Like does that

1086
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:40.880
actually fair? There? There are
there's definitely one area where I found holding

1087
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:45.320
a torch to be interesting. But
you know, like you know, castle

1088
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:47.280
and light because it's dark area right
in two or in the first two.

1089
01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:50.800
Okay, I I think the I
think the lighting effects, the real time

1090
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:53.559
stuff off of the torch the held
light source are are pretty impressive. Yeah,

1091
01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:55.800
they're good looks. You do look
at those, like, you know,

1092
01:03:55.880 --> 01:03:59.079
we've probably all seen him at this
point, like the side by side

1093
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:00.760
stuff, and it does look very
different it does. And uh, like

1094
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:03.159
I said, I hope the PC
version looks that good, because that stuff

1095
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:05.920
does look great. Uh. Well, like I'm playing the PS three one,

1096
01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:10.519
which has a little frameier issues in
sixty one and it's like really fun

1097
01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:13.000
to just like point the camera at
the ground and then it just becomes sixty

1098
01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:15.639
frames a second and then like to
lift it up and like, oh,

1099
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:19.440
so I reached a boss when I
was playing over the weekend that is in

1100
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:24.559
this kind of long tunnel that is
lit by torches, and when the guy

1101
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:28.559
comes through, there's a bunch of
enemies around and this guy's just fucking cruising

1102
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:33.599
through and the frame rate goes like
Banana is like dumb ass like fucking drops

1103
01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:41.000
through the floors. Three and uh
and when you have people summoned in,

1104
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:45.679
it's laggy kind of already. Yeah, like guys are kind of warping around

1105
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.199
a bit, and it was just
it was kind of a mess. It

1106
01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:51.079
was a beautiful mass happening in there. And I can only imagine if that

1107
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:56.719
lighting system we're in there in this
particular part, uh, there would have

1108
01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:00.960
just been a nightmare. Uh you
know, it clears eventually, but me

1109
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:04.239
and yeah, they probably had to
optimize it. I assume they probably went

1110
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:08.719
in and we're like, this fucking
playing system looks beautiful, but like,

1111
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:13.119
we can't nobody can play the game. Yeah, I judged primarily on the

1112
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:15.519
track record of the previous games,
and in that context, I think some

1113
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:19.480
parts of this game look amazing,
because these games have always been really rough

1114
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:23.239
around the edges in the technical sense, and some areas still are. But

1115
01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:27.039
you know, I understand why people
are like, I think calling it a

1116
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:30.320
beta instead of a network test is
a little misleading. When people are like

1117
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:34.119
I played the demo and like the
demo was better looking. I think I

1118
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.519
think that's a little wrong. But
I understand where people are like, I

1119
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:40.800
played this on my PS three hackament
doesn't look well. Somebody, somebody will

1120
01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:43.239
need to clarify for us. But
I'm pretty sure all the footage in question

1121
01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:46.440
is not from that network beta.
I think it's provided different from others from

1122
01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:50.000
a different series or videos where it
could have been a debug that we're taken

1123
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.679
from, or like, the source
of all this footage is kind of in

1124
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:57.920
question. I think, like I
said, my biggest take weight, like,

1125
01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.480
I'm sorry if people you know this
lead whatever, that sucks, But

1126
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:04.440
I personally hope the PC version looks
awesome, Like I'm gonna probably get that

1127
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:08.920
version as well. And if it
looks like what, yeah, does animated

1128
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:12.159
gifts and stuff look like, I'll
actually be really psyched. And I'm curious

1129
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:15.199
to see, you know, like
Watchdogs for myself because I saw it in

1130
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:17.440
person coming up on a year ago. Now that was the last time I

1131
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:20.239
saw it. You know, it
was right before E three last year.

1132
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:24.639
You saw it being played, yeah, right, And I thought it looked

1133
01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.199
really nice. You know, it
was like a it was a good looking

1134
01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:29.159
game. Like the section they were
showing, you know, they showed like

1135
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:31.239
one little mission. It wasn't enough
to know like was it fun yet or

1136
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:34.000
not? Like I don't know,
it seemed like the core tools were there

1137
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:38.840
in place for them to make something
good. But some of the video that

1138
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:43.639
they put out recently just doesn't look
the way it used to. But you

1139
01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:46.840
know, we're around a console launch
and and what's the what's the deal there?

1140
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:50.400
Like the original demos run PC and
now this is when I when I

1141
01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:54.000
saw it was running on a PC, and I saw it was definitely running

1142
01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:55.960
on a PC. But I don't
know, it just it seems like a

1143
01:06:57.000 --> 01:07:00.760
slippery slope to see like you know, two or three animated ifs of some

1144
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.360
footage footing around and kind of like
make these sweeping generalizations. They ruined it.

1145
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:10.360
Let's start the boycott campaign, like
like a little bit broader experience with

1146
01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:15.039
the thing. You think that's reactionary? Really? Sure? So, Dave

1147
01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:18.679
Lang, you've been through a handful
of console launches at this point. Yes,

1148
01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:24.280
in the game making business. I
know my favorite yeah PS three,

1149
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:29.679
Yeah, aka The Widow Maker.
Holy crap, if you wanted, if

1150
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:33.400
you wanted to crunch the PS three
was your platform. Oh man, undercooked

1151
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:40.119
hardware tools weren't ready. If you
launched a game on PS three on day

1152
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.840
one. God, there's a special
place in heaven reserved just for you.

1153
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:46.639
Like you could murder a billion people, you could be the worst piece of

1154
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.320
shit on the planet. You're still
going straight to heap God, amazing.

1155
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:55.239
Yeah, it was. It was. It was unique. Like it's always

1156
01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:57.800
hard, it's always like hey,
I don't know everything I need to know

1157
01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:01.000
to ship this, But it's rare
when you felt like you're like the harbormakers

1158
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:08.199
conspiring against like like oh, it's
really trivially easy to break this super expensive

1159
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:14.000
death kit man. Yeah, like
one guide Midway we were doing this,

1160
01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:16.680
And so anytime you're on like what
did Midway have it launched? Did maybe

1161
01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:21.560
have anything launched? The stranglehold was
that launch No, okay, was it

1162
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:24.560
supposed to be? Yeah, we're
supposed to a bunch of stuff. So

1163
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:32.199
but the thing was so firmware version
eight five we'll live in infamy. So

1164
01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:36.079
anytime you're dealing with firmware version before
one, you know, right, you

1165
01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:41.800
were there and oh eight five was
the one god so you were on O

1166
01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:44.920
six and then you had probably to
go to oh eight five after oh six

1167
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:47.600
because no one cared about anyone else. And then like that I flash from

1168
01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:51.800
from anything prep previous to eight five
two eight five was like, okay,

1169
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:57.479
where are the monks? Bring the
monks in ship? Only two monks are

1170
01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.520
here. We need three and they
have to be channing in units. It

1171
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:02.439
was like one guy in all Midway
that we would trust the flash the dev

1172
01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:06.479
kates right, and anytime someone needed
you'd bring your devoicated his office. Hope

1173
01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:11.119
he was awake. It like he
was properly caffeinated, and so we could

1174
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:14.840
do it. It was the It
was amazing games got out, Oh so

1175
01:09:15.079 --> 01:09:16.800
so crazy? What was the what
was the consequences if one of these things

1176
01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:21.239
got briked, Like how much money
down the drain? Uh generally generally take

1177
01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:25.359
to get replaced. Generally you would
just wrestle with it until you've got it

1178
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:29.159
working in some shape or fashion.
Again, like it was basically just the

1179
01:09:29.239 --> 01:09:33.039
expense was developer sanity right as it
always is. But yeah, that was

1180
01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:38.680
PS three was amazing And and how
do these machines? How how has that?

1181
01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:41.159
How has it been a lot better? Ye? Yeah, they're both

1182
01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:46.600
really really like uh hardware. Uh
it was lockdown much sooner. Some aspects

1183
01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:49.920
of the SDK were not, but
they were very public and clear about what

1184
01:09:50.239 --> 01:09:54.359
is going to change. And you
know, we we helped ship a couple

1185
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:58.920
of things at launch and that was
not like one hundred and twenty hour weeks

1186
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:00.520
or anything like that. To get
had done that was that was kind of

1187
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:05.479
normal, just game to have hard
It was not like insane to do difficult.

1188
01:10:05.720 --> 01:10:09.840
Yeah yeah, but did you did
you feel that there were definitely things

1189
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:13.119
that need to be ironed out with
the experience of just like making games for

1190
01:10:13.159 --> 01:10:15.560
those platforms like the just the I
feel like the thing we've heard from developers

1191
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:18.960
a handful of times is that,
like, you know, the tool stuff

1192
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:23.359
on the Xbox One is maybe not
where it needs to be yet. I

1193
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:26.800
mean there's developer support obviously there like, yeah, there's, but there's things

1194
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:29.720
they're also highly confident in, right, Like, I'm highly confident Microsoft will

1195
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:31.880
get the tools where they need to
be sure. The first thing with all

1196
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:36.239
this stuff is does Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, do they acknowledge the problem?

1197
01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:40.600
Right? And if nine times out
of ten, then this launch has

1198
01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:43.279
been like this thing really sucks,
We're working on it, and that's all

1199
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:45.920
we need to hear. Right.
If we know it sucks, then it's

1200
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:47.199
like we're not kind of trying to
guess where you're going to be on the

1201
01:10:47.239 --> 01:10:53.000
next firm warre update or whatever.
But it was the biggest thing with the

1202
01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:59.079
Xbox One around launch was about well, I guess it was about nine months

1203
01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:03.079
before launch they kept pushing the first
big firmware update out out, out out,

1204
01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.399
But that was really the most drama
there was around launch of anything.

1205
01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:10.439
It was like that one thing,
that one firmware update that's gonna be Okay,

1206
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:12.920
here's where Purpo is really gonna be, Here's we're gonna see what it's

1207
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:14.880
like. We're gonna see what it's
like. And they push it out like

1208
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:17.520
two months, like uh, some
total of two months, and every day

1209
01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:20.039
it's like you're waiting for it,
waiting for it. But that was as

1210
01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:23.520
crazy as I got. It was. It was this was pretty tame.

1211
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:28.319
Yeah, So they're both really good
boxes. It's amazing how far Sony has

1212
01:11:28.399 --> 01:11:31.279
come from PS three to PS four. It's it's stunning, like it seems

1213
01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:34.000
like you almost would have to go
through something like the cell process or to

1214
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:36.079
come out the other end and go
like, no, we need to get

1215
01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:39.760
it, we need to do better
than this. It wasn't just the cell

1216
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:45.760
though. Man, it was like
a holistic uh just end to end underbaked,

1217
01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:49.960
like you're trying to put this as
delicately as I can. But Sony

1218
01:11:50.039 --> 01:11:53.800
knows this. That's that's why it's
so good now, right, Like it

1219
01:11:53.960 --> 01:11:58.000
was the whole thing just from their
documentation in Japanese. You know a lot

1220
01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:01.319
of times like Sony was like they
used to do this thing where they're very

1221
01:12:01.399 --> 01:12:04.439
open with how they would They don't
want to tell developers how to solve problems,

1222
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.920
right and for the most part,
that's like a really good approach to

1223
01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.399
take, like, because every game
is different, every game is different needs,

1224
01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.640
and you shouldn't like force or prescribe
a way for me to do things.

1225
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:16.880
But they took it so crazy on
the PS three, where like they

1226
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:21.640
would have three ways you could emulate
a game on disk, right, and

1227
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:27.319
none of them worked. Like one
of them was literally like take the hard

1228
01:12:27.399 --> 01:12:30.640
drive out of the PS three and
put it in your computer and use this

1229
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:32.359
tool to copy the image over right. And so it's like, you know,

1230
01:12:32.439 --> 01:12:35.239
the criticism we would give them at
the time was, instead of giving

1231
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:38.840
me three things that don't work,
how about you just give me one that

1232
01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:42.800
is consistently. I can learn two
steps on and it might be problematic or

1233
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:45.720
whatever, but I can I can
get it done. And it was just

1234
01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:47.760
like, you know, it's like
a joke about the monks, but that's

1235
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:50.760
what you felt like. You felt
like when you figured out the magic steps

1236
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:54.840
to get something to work on the
PS three on oh eight five or earlier,

1237
01:12:56.119 --> 01:12:58.399
if you felt like, you know, you were the most valuable employee

1238
01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:01.279
at the company, so you needed
to ask for a raise at that point,

1239
01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:03.399
Yeah, I know how to do
this. Yeah, yeah, you

1240
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:06.439
can't get rid of me. I'm
the only person I will brick every one

1241
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:11.279
of these. Yeah, there's a
reason. So Dan Coleman is one of

1242
01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:13.560
my guys. I worked with him
midway and he was kind of like the

1243
01:13:13.640 --> 01:13:16.359
PS three guy in Stranglehold. There's
a reason he does not have a hair

1244
01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:20.840
on his head right now, and
it's because of it's because of PreO eight

1245
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:27.319
five firmware. God to bless you, Dan Coleman. He made it.

1246
01:13:27.880 --> 01:13:33.079
So eight five is good firmware.
Await five is when it started to sneak

1247
01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:36.920
up to competent. It was tiptoeing
in the pinking about it. Yeah,

1248
01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:42.880
so yeah, it was no longer
like like literally like not to dwell on

1249
01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:45.560
this because, like I said,
PS four is fucking amazing. They did

1250
01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:47.640
a great job, and I think
but largely how bad the PS three pre

1251
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:51.239
launch was is basically public knowledge.
But like they've come out and said,

1252
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:55.039
yeah, as much like but it
was it was like crazy stuff like you

1253
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:59.079
would plug it in, you would
plug in the HDMI and like it wouldn't

1254
01:13:59.319 --> 01:14:02.439
auto to tech HDMI was in and
then you'd plug in all the different video

1255
01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:05.800
outputs and no screens were coming on. So then you had to like basically

1256
01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:11.439
the equivalent of tel netting into the
box and like doing shell commands and looking

1257
01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:15.439
at text coming back on the shell
to manually set the video mode including resolution

1258
01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:19.359
and frequency and like it could you
just spend like an hour just getting like

1259
01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:23.119
the screen to come on right.
And it's just like stuff like that.

1260
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:26.920
Times one hundred was where they were
at. It was bad news bearers And

1261
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:29.560
like I said, if you shipped
the game, god bless you. Like

1262
01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:32.640
if you shipped the game and somehow
you hear this before GDC is over and

1263
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:38.039
you see me walking around, come
get your hug because you deserve it.

1264
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:45.600
God. Wow. Yes, how's
the Vida? What's the vida? Like?

1265
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:47.520
Feed is really good? Vita is
amazing. Yeah, yeah, I

1266
01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:51.680
think the big the big thing I
my critique about the Vita in general is

1267
01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:58.279
the central processor of the main CPU
is really good. It's got like you

1268
01:14:58.359 --> 01:15:00.680
know, it's like a quad or
so you can have a lot of different

1269
01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.720
threads going. The big problem with
it is most modern game engines don't take

1270
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:11.439
advantage of well, most last gen
game engines and even some this gen don't

1271
01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.079
take advantage of that many cores,
but they'll use two at most, right,

1272
01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:18.479
And so it kind of like is
wasted power if you're just trying to

1273
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:20.600
do something like off the shell,
if you're not trying to do some custom

1274
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:24.279
with the Vita. But for the
most part, I really really like it.

1275
01:15:24.399 --> 01:15:27.600
Cool. That's something I'm curious about
going forward with everything because these new

1276
01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:30.479
boxes or you know, they're kind
of massively parallel. Yeah, with the

1277
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:32.640
eight cores on each side, Like, is that something people are ramping up

1278
01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:36.479
to you pretty quickly? Yeah,
I mean it depends on what your goals

1279
01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:40.520
are, right, Like, it's
not something you know, we need for

1280
01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:43.159
the games we do like dive kick
and stuff like that or whatever, Right,

1281
01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:45.119
we don't need any of that.
But like, if you look at

1282
01:15:45.199 --> 01:15:47.960
UI four and you go watch their
sales pitch for UI four, it's basically,

1283
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:50.840
you know, they spend so much
time talking about how you know,

1284
01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:56.439
they basically take advantage of every little
bit of silicon on the box, right,

1285
01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.119
and that's their pitch. This time
is like because like last time,

1286
01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.399
they're notoriously like basically bound to two
threads the way they kind of did their

1287
01:16:02.800 --> 01:16:08.239
object management and object lifetime management,
and it really really difficult to do anything

1288
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:12.479
else. And they've you know,
presumably they fixed that all that with UE

1289
01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:15.840
four, and so I'm excited to
see the first round of UE four games.

1290
01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:18.520
I bet they're going to be super, super, super impressive. So

1291
01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:23.840
do you think that developers will get
more power out of these consoles faster as

1292
01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:27.479
a result of some much such optimization, because it seems like that's the thing

1293
01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:29.960
where you know, it would see
like the late generation games and you're like,

1294
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:32.159
man, it was seems impossible that
this game could look this good compared

1295
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:35.239
to what this ship looked like at
launch. The still feel like there's a

1296
01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:41.119
lot of room to move from these
yeahs, Like every launch is a shadow

1297
01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:43.680
of what the box can be.
Sure, you know, it's like it's

1298
01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:48.119
combination of like it's not just optimization, right, Like ninety percent of it

1299
01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:53.640
is content. It's not code magic
right anymore Like in the sixteen bit days,

1300
01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:57.199
like the programmers made the game look
good, right, and then the

1301
01:16:57.279 --> 01:17:00.319
thirty two bit days, like you
know, PSX addern Nintendo, it was

1302
01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:02.880
kind of even split. It was
like, Okay, you need awesome programmers

1303
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:05.680
and cool artist and they're both pulling
their own weight. And last Gen and

1304
01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:09.720
now it's like ninety percent up the
artists. Right, it's not about code

1305
01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:14.439
wizardry. It's about like programmers coming
up with cool pipelines, cool tools,

1306
01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:18.199
giving the content creators feedback that lets
them make art an optimal way so it'll

1307
01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:23.079
run really well and look great and
just kind of like watching the store shop,

1308
01:17:23.239 --> 01:17:28.359
you know. And because of that, as people learn Okay, here's

1309
01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:31.800
the right way to you know,
do whatever whatever on these boxes, game

1310
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:34.800
is gonna look amazing. It's gonna
be great cool. Yeah. Well,

1311
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:40.600
speaking to the Vida, I played, uh significant amount of loof Rousers.

1312
01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:44.319
Oh yeah, I played too.
Yeah, yeah, you do. You

1313
01:17:44.359 --> 01:17:46.119
have a higher square than means I
do. I mostly played on the PC,

1314
01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:49.239
but it's available on on Vida NPS
three this week as well. It's

1315
01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:53.600
your high score, it's like fourteen
thousand. Look, it's not that you

1316
01:17:53.680 --> 01:17:56.600
were playing on the Vida. I've
played almost exclusively on the Vida. I

1317
01:17:56.600 --> 01:18:01.039
think my ascort is like twelve seem
of the high score on the leaderboard right

1318
01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:04.520
now was like fifty seven thousand or
something. That's just like the amount of

1319
01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:09.159
combo time you would have to combo
all. Yeah, you'd have to just

1320
01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:12.399
have a real long combo going on
that It's a. It's a really fun

1321
01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:15.520
arcade style, like it's kind of
you know, Defender ish with its wrap

1322
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:19.560
around world and basic perspective. Yeah, it still reminds me of the flying

1323
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:23.239
stuff from Combat for the twenty six. Yeah, it's the way that you

1324
01:18:23.359 --> 01:18:26.159
point a direction and then fly that
way by like pushing up or one of

1325
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:29.439
the controls. Yeah, there's there's
a momentum on it that feels like that.

1326
01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:34.000
It's almost like a space like a
land fighting fighting. You're cutting engines

1327
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:38.680
and dropping down for a while and
stuff like stalling stalling the plane is like

1328
01:18:38.760 --> 01:18:42.039
it's but it's it's a pure score
game by and large, you know,

1329
01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.199
it has some of the kind of
like missions, I could do this to

1330
01:18:45.239 --> 01:18:47.079
complete this mission, to unlock more
parts, and some of that actually feels

1331
01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:50.279
a lot like like ridiculous fishing in
a way, Like it's it's not currency

1332
01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:54.960
base though, it's sort of just
you're building up XP You're you're completing challenges

1333
01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:57.640
and and all that. But they're
all like per part so it's like equipped

1334
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:00.560
the spread missile or the spread weapon
and then go kill two boats or what

1335
01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:03.039
or whatever. It is, so
right, they're tailored for that. Yeah,

1336
01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:06.119
they're tailored for those specific parts,
and it's three parts for the plane,

1337
01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:10.159
like a real cool kind of retro
style. Uh. And you end

1338
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:12.840
up with like, you know,
a weapon part, a body part,

1339
01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:15.800
and a propulsion part. And so
with weapons you end up getting like lasers

1340
01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:17.760
and homing missiles and stuff like that. You have to choose which one you

1341
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:24.000
want, uh right, because there
are there are like five ish weapons.

1342
01:19:24.039 --> 01:19:27.319
I was gonna say eight, but
yeah, that's yeah somewhere between those two

1343
01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:30.560
probably. And you mix and match, Yeah, you mix and matchup parts.

1344
01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:31.760
Have you got all the stuff?
Yet? I don't have the last

1345
01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:35.760
one in each tier because I think
you have to complete every challenge across the

1346
01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:38.680
rest of the game to get the
last because I was gonna say, like

1347
01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:41.560
they all have little lock icons except
for the last one. It's it's like

1348
01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:44.840
a big skull. It's a big
skull. So I have a lot with

1349
01:19:45.399 --> 01:19:48.079
SFMT mode, which is where you
complete the last challenge for every part,

1350
01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:55.800
and it is like hardcore fucking crazy
like that. No one of the achievements

1351
01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:59.239
is like what does this stand for? So they don't, but yeah that's

1352
01:19:59.720 --> 01:20:05.079
soon, super fucking motherfu messed up
time. Uh yeah, I was watching

1353
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:10.000
you play that was like where you're
at about on a great game, like

1354
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:15.159
thirty minutes in on normal and everything
is like batshit crazy starts off. But

1355
01:20:15.239 --> 01:20:17.880
yeah, when you start that mode, like it immediately spawns a blimp like

1356
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.239
right off the bat. So it's
it's right there, you know, fucking

1357
01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:24.319
your ship up. But like I
said in Pure score game, you know

1358
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:27.960
you're just you're you're Yeah, great
soundtrack. You're you're flying around trying to

1359
01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:30.600
build up your Comba multiplier and then
kill as much stuff while your multiplier is

1360
01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:34.479
up there. Uh. And it's
basically like a two tone game. It's

1361
01:20:34.520 --> 01:20:39.119
like tan and brown. Yeah,
but I've unlocked like six or seven different

1362
01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:43.520
color palettes for it. Are they
literally dread and yellow? Is that all

1363
01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:45.640
it is? They're just swapping colors
like they don't. It doesn't profoundly change

1364
01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:49.520
the look or anything. That's all
just just color stuff. Yeah. It

1365
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:53.319
is awesome. Yeah. The control
line, it's really great. Just the

1366
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:58.479
feel you get of like cutting the
engine, installing to get under some shots

1367
01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:00.359
and loop around come back up.
Like some of some of the stuff you're

1368
01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:04.960
doing that game is you feel pretty
fucking rude when you're flying through just barrages

1369
01:21:05.159 --> 01:21:10.359
of just hellish bullets coming out of
a battleship and just weaving right between them,

1370
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:14.399
uh, to try and stay alive. It. It's it's really a

1371
01:21:14.479 --> 01:21:15.920
lot of fun. Do you like
the body that or maybe it's an engine

1372
01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:19.720
that effectively nullifies the effect of gravity, Yeah, the hover engine. Yeah,

1373
01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:23.079
it's it's really fun. I just
got that one. Yeah, almost

1374
01:21:23.199 --> 01:21:27.239
makes it a different game. Yeah, way, uh hover like Cover Nuke

1375
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:30.640
or Melee, like the Melee body
because he just crash into stuff to kill

1376
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:32.479
it. It's got This game's got
so much personality. Yeah, Like the

1377
01:21:32.720 --> 01:21:38.000
intro cut scene is literally about three
seconds long, and like hard cuts when

1378
01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:40.359
it seems like it shouldn't be finished, and all of a sudden you're in

1379
01:21:40.399 --> 01:21:45.239
the gameplay. Yeah, Like it's
like very quick restart, like says pressed

1380
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:47.920
up to rouse you start the game
rightly, but it only says that when

1381
01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:50.159
you start the game only the one
time. Yeah, it's like it's the

1382
01:21:50.359 --> 01:21:55.680
tutorial or something. And then every
single combination of the three parts has its

1383
01:21:55.720 --> 01:21:58.880
own name. Yep, Like you
get like the fork and the pig and

1384
01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:03.159
the jacque and the car rouser kuser
the karate rousers might be Karate Rouser might

1385
01:22:03.199 --> 01:22:06.880
be my favorite design. There are
a handful of different ones that I that

1386
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:13.880
I go to, but you eventually
unlocked random just set to all random,

1387
01:22:14.239 --> 01:22:15.680
so I don't know what I'm gonna
get. Sometimes it's something real useful and

1388
01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:18.640
sometimes it's total garbage with their own
challenges, right. Yeah, yeah,

1389
01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:24.079
that's interesting. Yeah, So that's
that is just that is just a great

1390
01:22:24.119 --> 01:22:27.640
time. It's like ten bucks.
I think it's It's totally worth checking out.

1391
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:31.920
It's the controls are super tight of
Lambert really just they did a great

1392
01:22:31.960 --> 01:22:35.800
job. It's super fun. It's
one of those games too when you put

1393
01:22:35.800 --> 01:22:39.199
it on and you're like, man, then I just want to play this

1394
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:43.319
through good speakers, want to hear
good subwaff. We're going and yeah,

1395
01:22:43.439 --> 01:22:46.760
great music, great music. Uh. And then I played Infamous, but

1396
01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:49.159
we can't talk about that yet,
so we'll talk about that later this week.

1397
01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:54.680
Brad, did you play anything else? Yes? I played that new

1398
01:22:54.760 --> 01:23:00.920
metal gear yeah, Potion, like
two and a half times. Basically That's

1399
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:04.079
what I've been sitting here doing this
whole time. So ground zeros that,

1400
01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:08.479
Yeah, I completely forgot that they
are actually calling a thing metal. You're

1401
01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:14.600
solid five five zeros seems a little
goofy, but they're solid prologue. Yeah,

1402
01:23:14.760 --> 01:23:16.479
which back I guess. I guess
that leads me to wonder if like

1403
01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:19.960
this is entirely representative of what the
real five is going to be like?

1404
01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:23.520
Is this the gameplay? Is this
what the menus are gonna look like?

1405
01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:25.960
And the aiming? Is it all
gonna feel the same? Is it a

1406
01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:29.840
case West? Yeah, exactly of
Dave. Yeah, it's like, let's

1407
01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:33.039
metal You're solid five. Yeah.
I haven't played a metal Gear game since

1408
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:36.359
two, so I'm probably the wrong
person. I asked, why do you

1409
01:23:36.399 --> 01:23:40.399
why do you think a metal Gear
game is in this day and age?

1410
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:45.319
Uh, I'm just not going to
comment on metal Gear, all right.

1411
01:23:45.399 --> 01:23:47.319
I think that's probably a good policy
for me, just like just they're clear

1412
01:23:47.359 --> 01:23:49.560
of commenting on metal Gear. It's
been working so far. Well, I

1413
01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:51.840
was going to ask you, why
does this game exist? So this is

1414
01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:56.520
like a what like two or two
and a half hour segment of like a

1415
01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:00.359
let's say average hour and a half
to two hours or first time you tech

1416
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:02.800
that we suppose will be I have
to imagine. Yeah, it's definitely the

1417
01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:05.960
Fox engine. Definitely on the Fox
Engine. It's like a thirty dollars release.

1418
01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:09.680
Is this is something where they're like, we can build this like self

1419
01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:13.880
contained little thing and put it out
and it seems like a DLC but before

1420
01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:15.680
pre LC or something like that.
It's like that case zero thing. Yeah,

1421
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:18.880
I mean, yeah, maybe it's
just them dipping their toe in that

1422
01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:21.600
pool, like they saw Capcom had
success with it and they want to give

1423
01:24:21.600 --> 01:24:24.359
it a shot. I see that. And then and I like Grant to

1424
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:27.920
Rismo, like having prolog out ahead
of the full It's just one of those

1425
01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:30.159
like you're you're sprawling multimillion dollar productions
taking way too long when you can put

1426
01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:34.119
something out and generate revenue. It's
my guess. But yeah, I doubt

1427
01:24:34.159 --> 01:24:36.760
it's that. I mean, not
because they I mean, I'm sure there's

1428
01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:40.520
an element to that, but that's
probably not the primary motivator. I mean,

1429
01:24:40.760 --> 01:24:43.239
or maybe you know, maybe less
cynical view as they use this as

1430
01:24:43.279 --> 01:24:45.840
a test case for a lot of
the gameplay concepts and yeah, I mean

1431
01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:47.039
yeah, it's like they want to
engine up and running and stuff like that.

1432
01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:50.920
Yeah, there's probably like they've been
talking about this for a while,

1433
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.600
and you know how it's like you
don't want to talk about things for too

1434
01:24:54.640 --> 01:24:57.399
long because some people lose interest,
probably felt they need to get something out

1435
01:24:57.439 --> 01:25:00.239
to keep the conversation going. Give
like hard fans have been waiting a taste.

1436
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.319
You know. It's hard to say
though without being in those rooms,

1437
01:25:03.439 --> 01:25:06.199
but uh, I would, I
would think it's more just them, Like

1438
01:25:06.439 --> 01:25:11.199
I'm sure someone in Konami in the
business side said hey, this this kid

1439
01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:14.359
zero thing, like everyone really liked
that we should do something like that,

1440
01:25:14.720 --> 01:25:15.840
and they kept talking about it,
talking about and then it became a thing,

1441
01:25:16.359 --> 01:25:18.880
and that did be my best guess. But it's strictly that I guess,

1442
01:25:19.159 --> 01:25:21.680
and then you rip them one or
two lines you're not going to use

1443
01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:26.159
for of key fer in the final
game and stick them in here and space

1444
01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:30.960
entire story around. There is not
a lot of key for Sutherland and that

1445
01:25:30.039 --> 01:25:35.279
thing. Yeah, I would.
I would estimate between five and ten minutes,

1446
01:25:35.319 --> 01:25:38.880
like if you're strong every line in
the end, like between five and

1447
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:44.560
ten minutes of dialogue that actually seems
like a decent ex Well, I don't

1448
01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:46.119
know. I don't know if I
feel like the various snakes have always been

1449
01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:48.960
fairly chatty though, right, Yeah, there's been a lot of back and

1450
01:25:49.039 --> 01:25:51.840
forth on like a Codex screen,
but you tell me does not exist in

1451
01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:57.439
this game. There is no yeah, no cardboard box, no rations.

1452
01:25:58.199 --> 01:26:00.680
I don't know about this game all
of a sudden, Yeah, I'm getting

1453
01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:04.439
super excited. Check it out.
Like it's a it's a very different game

1454
01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:08.279
they are. You can go into
the options and change it to shooter type

1455
01:26:08.319 --> 01:26:13.239
controls and then you just reload Square
and yeah, I think they had that

1456
01:26:13.319 --> 01:26:15.439
before, but it's emphasized even more
here. I think. I mean,

1457
01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:18.039
it's still defaults to the weird,
quirky metagare controls, but like you can

1458
01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:24.520
play this like you play most any
third person action game these days, just

1459
01:26:24.640 --> 01:26:27.920
in any control sense. But like
I found the stealth stuff to be super

1460
01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:30.039
satisfying in this game, like the
just the range of tools they give you,

1461
01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:32.600
like a quick look should be on
the site so you can see the

1462
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:36.319
stuff. But like being able to
tag every single enemy and vehicle in the

1463
01:26:36.359 --> 01:26:40.760
base see it. Yeah, totally. It's very far Car three where you

1464
01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:42.920
can see them through walls and see
them on your map, but like no

1465
01:26:43.079 --> 01:26:46.640
limits, like you're you literally mean
tag everything and it's all stay tag anything.

1466
01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:49.079
It's just permanent. Yeah. One
of my favorite things would be to

1467
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:51.840
tag a guy who I guess was
marked as like a jeep driver, but

1468
01:26:51.960 --> 01:26:56.640
not when he was in the jeep
because then occasionally you would see because you

1469
01:26:56.680 --> 01:26:59.600
can see they're sort of silhouette through
walls. Once they're tagged, he would

1470
01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:01.319
be in his jeep driving around,
So you just see the silhouette of a

1471
01:27:01.399 --> 01:27:04.399
guy in the pose like he's driving
a team, just like flying through the

1472
01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:09.119
air, like he's not sitting on
anything. It's really dumb, but like

1473
01:27:09.239 --> 01:27:12.760
that, that one feature gives you
all this situational awareness that I feel like

1474
01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:15.199
you didn't have before. Yeah.
And recharging health. Yeah, recharging health.

1475
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:18.119
You know, there's there's that is
what it is. Well like watching

1476
01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:21.159
you get in combat scenarios, be
able to like duck behind a box and

1477
01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:25.840
your health recharge different places. You
can you can evade the guys pretty well,

1478
01:27:25.920 --> 01:27:27.840
even after you've tripped an alarm.
Yeah, it just seems like there's

1479
01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:30.600
a real survivor survivability to the character
that is just don't happen in the previous

1480
01:27:30.640 --> 01:27:32.560
games, I guess for Better for
work. Yeah, all that all that

1481
01:27:32.600 --> 01:27:35.239
said, though, like my first
time through it, I pretty much restarted

1482
01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:39.119
every checkpoint once I got caught.
Yeah, because you are capable of getting

1483
01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:42.960
through the whole thing without being seen
if you really want to. Is there

1484
01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:45.359
any incentive to do that? Well, you do get graded at the end.

1485
01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:47.720
You know, they give you a
letter grade on your I'm sure it's

1486
01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:50.479
hashed from performance and like number of
time spotted and you know, did you

1487
01:27:50.560 --> 01:27:54.840
kill anybody and blah blah blah,
and you unlock better stuff. The higher

1488
01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:58.840
that grade is for like a new
game plus. Yeah. Like so my

1489
01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:00.880
second time through, I got a
B which got me like two extra weapons

1490
01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:05.000
that were very different from the stuff
that I started with. There's a ton

1491
01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:09.560
of little like inline challenges in there, Like there's like there's a challenge for

1492
01:28:09.640 --> 01:28:12.319
how fast can you mark, you
know, tag every guy on the island?

1493
01:28:12.720 --> 01:28:15.560
Every guy? Yeah, and it'll
pop a little counter up saying like

1494
01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:20.279
one of forty guys marked or whatever. They track stuff like the like the

1495
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:24.640
farthest head shot you've made, or
what was the one that popped uphen I

1496
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:28.960
was driving that number of time?
Yeah, Like this weird stuff that just

1497
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:31.439
seems so not metal gear, right. Uh. This was a debug version,

1498
01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:33.359
so I couldn't get online with it, So I don't know how much

1499
01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:35.720
of that gets pushed up to the
leaderboards, but like it'd be kind of

1500
01:28:35.760 --> 01:28:40.920
fun to compare. And that's partially
because there's so little actual content in the

1501
01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:43.720
game, like you sort of need
to like you're squeezing a little bit of

1502
01:28:43.720 --> 01:28:45.880
blood from stone. But they do
have so they have these side ops that

1503
01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:48.439
are separate, like separate missions from
the main thing. They'll you go back

1504
01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:53.279
onto that exact environment and do different, different stuff. So it's not canon,

1505
01:28:54.279 --> 01:28:56.880
it's like it's reality. They all
say, like this is like a

1506
01:28:57.119 --> 01:29:00.199
pseudohistorical recreation of a of a mission
somebody else care out using the same map,

1507
01:29:00.560 --> 01:29:05.479
same map. It is the one
snake, the snake character model.

1508
01:29:05.520 --> 01:29:08.640
But it's like, oh, this
one was in nineteen seventy five and it

1509
01:29:08.720 --> 01:29:11.600
was to take out these two snipers
or something. Okay, but people just

1510
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:14.439
keep invading this space over the years. Everyone's like, we got to go

1511
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:15.960
back into this base. Why this
time you think that we got three anti

1512
01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:18.479
aircraft things? We should probably just
take out those three and leave everything else

1513
01:29:18.520 --> 01:29:20.960
intact. You think they would have
put up like a bigger fence by now

1514
01:29:21.960 --> 01:29:26.079
I saw you playing and you just
like hopped over barbed wire, Like yeah,

1515
01:29:28.079 --> 01:29:30.880
what he wants. They're probably wearing
gloves. That's all it really takes.

1516
01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.640
They put a decent amount of work
into those side ops, like there's

1517
01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:36.760
unique vo and some art and stuff
for those, and it takes allycent during

1518
01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:40.680
the daytime. So the island looks
different at least does the other Does the

1519
01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:43.319
main mission only take place at night? Yeah, it's all in the rain,

1520
01:29:43.359 --> 01:29:45.039
and it looks fucking incredible at night
in the rain, like just all

1521
01:29:45.079 --> 01:29:48.000
the wet pavement and stuff everywhere,
Like I played through the PS four version

1522
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:55.720
and it looks really good, and
like story wise, they kind of rain

1523
01:29:55.840 --> 01:30:00.680
in the like over the top anime
qualities of Metal Gear two certain extent,

1524
01:30:00.960 --> 01:30:03.000
that's the best part about Metal Gear
though. Yeah, yeah, I don't

1525
01:30:03.319 --> 01:30:05.239
don't. I don't know if I'm
into this, like trying to take it

1526
01:30:05.239 --> 01:30:09.880
a little more serious. There's still
this hairless guy in a church coat and

1527
01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:13.439
fedora called skull Face, who's got
like a shriveled up like raising look at

1528
01:30:13.720 --> 01:30:16.039
rug he basically looks like Freddy Kruger. His name skull Face. And don't

1529
01:30:16.079 --> 01:30:18.479
forget I mean you know that the
fallow up to this game does have that

1530
01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:24.239
quiet character yet I mean there's still
there's some really dumb well maybe dumb's not

1531
01:30:24.279 --> 01:30:27.319
the right word, but very some
very ridiculous events take place in this.

1532
01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:32.439
But they're leaning into their Cold War
like nuclear proliferation stuff pretty hard in this.

1533
01:30:32.960 --> 01:30:36.319
And this is because because it's very
clearly leading up to the timeline of

1534
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:42.800
the original Metal Gear games. The
main menu has a just really look at

1535
01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:44.800
this. If you didn't play peace
Walker, you should read through this,

1536
01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:47.640
like like a dense eleven page summary
of like everything that happened in peace Walker.

1537
01:30:48.520 --> 01:30:51.800
Yes, I kind of have the
same reads why by video games I

1538
01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:55.119
have the same reaction, but the
things that happened and that they have an

1539
01:30:55.119 --> 01:30:58.720
audiobook form that I can read.
Sorry, just to be clear, that

1540
01:30:58.840 --> 01:31:04.359
was Patrick falling asleep. You didn't
play peace Walker? Who played peace Walker?

1541
01:31:05.079 --> 01:31:09.359
Tried? I tried. I tried
to. I liked the mechanics of

1542
01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:13.640
like the weird Wi fi like access
the game. The game was sort of

1543
01:31:13.640 --> 01:31:16.760
fundamentally broken in the US because the
peace Walker was built with a Monster Hunter

1544
01:31:16.840 --> 01:31:20.359
influence, so the bosses are meant
to be played with multiple people and no

1545
01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:24.760
one If you tried to play that
game solo, like the difficulty was swung

1546
01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:29.199
really really hard. So I gave
up pretty early on the same here just

1547
01:31:29.239 --> 01:31:33.199
played acid point point being the acid
was. I fucking loved Ascida. I

1548
01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:38.039
wanted to do. I tried to
do Acid on iPad. Tried to pitch

1549
01:31:38.119 --> 01:31:41.359
him that that's would be amazing.
It's like, it's right if we got

1550
01:31:41.359 --> 01:31:43.760
don't with scribble knots on iPad and
it was like really well received. It's

1551
01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:45.239
like, hey, we're the kind
of go to for your your big game

1552
01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:49.199
on iPad. Where are those guys? And they're like, now, like

1553
01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:56.199
your acid, what's that game?
Well this is their response, wait for

1554
01:31:56.319 --> 01:32:00.399
it. Okay, that was their
response. That sucks. That just means

1555
01:32:00.439 --> 01:32:03.359
you just gotta like Cojim is probably
here somewhere. Yeah, you just gotta

1556
01:32:03.399 --> 01:32:05.760
go track him down and go.
Man, did you ever hear the Mike

1557
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:10.319
Micah Kajima story. I don't know. I don't know that I did.

1558
01:32:10.359 --> 01:32:13.359
It's amazing. So it was it
was, Yeah, it was a GDC

1559
01:32:13.600 --> 01:32:19.000
two years ago. So Mike Micah
had a meeting with someone from I think

1560
01:32:19.039 --> 01:32:23.439
it was SNK and he was gonna
meet him, he's never met him before,

1561
01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:26.359
trying to get that wind jammers.
Yeah, exactly, and he's gonna

1562
01:32:26.399 --> 01:32:30.760
meet him at the what's there's there's
two is it two Hyatts around right around?

1563
01:32:30.920 --> 01:32:33.680
Like there's one by the park and
there's one or is it two Hilton's.

1564
01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:36.359
I think there's two hilts So there's
two Hiltons. So he's gonna meet

1565
01:32:36.399 --> 01:32:40.680
this guy in the lobby. The
Hilton never met him before. He's like,

1566
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:43.720
he's like running five minutes late.
He gets there, he doesn't see

1567
01:32:43.720 --> 01:32:46.079
anybody that looks like they're from SNK. He's waiting around five minutes later,

1568
01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:49.840
this guy comes rushing in right and
Mike kind of waves at him. Guy

1569
01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:53.680
comes over and grabs him. He's
like, oh, we're very late.

1570
01:32:53.800 --> 01:32:56.560
Let's you know, it's kind of
like broken English. That's super clear English,

1571
01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.039
beause clearly not his first language.
Mike's like, no problem, no

1572
01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:01.520
problem, rushes Mike in the elevator. They go up to the top floor,

1573
01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:05.880
they go out, They go into
this room and it's just a table

1574
01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.359
like I don't know where the beds
are in the hotel room. Right,

1575
01:33:09.560 --> 01:33:13.119
there's like a table like it's like
a boardroom table with nine people sitting at

1576
01:33:13.159 --> 01:33:18.000
it and Kajima in the middle,
and Mike's like walks in and he's like,

1577
01:33:18.920 --> 01:33:23.840
uh, who and he leans.
The guy's like, this is not

1578
01:33:24.600 --> 01:33:28.520
I He shows him his business card, and the guy realized. The guy

1579
01:33:28.680 --> 01:33:32.800
just turns white. He starts talking
in Japanese to everyone at the board table,

1580
01:33:33.399 --> 01:33:40.239
and Mike just naturally starts handing out
business cards and uh. He promptly

1581
01:33:40.319 --> 01:33:44.560
left, and he imagined that guy
was fired. The funny part is at

1582
01:33:44.560 --> 01:33:47.720
the other Hilton, probably the other
thing has happened exactly. Those other two

1583
01:33:47.720 --> 01:33:50.800
guys were paired up at the other
Hilton, but they're like going up to

1584
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:54.479
take the Coajima meeting, and then
it's like, we really want to bring

1585
01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:59.079
King of Fighters BACKA No, that's
a great idea. We could do k

1586
01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:02.560
of ninety eight. And I'm wait, what some of that's? What are

1587
01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:05.560
we doing here? Like, let's
let's talk about it, the revival of

1588
01:34:05.760 --> 01:34:10.640
you know what. Let's take a
quick break and we'll come back, and

1589
01:34:10.680 --> 01:34:13.199
I want to talk to you about
the revival of some neo geo classics.

1590
01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:15.239
Let's do it. I'm excited to
talk about it. I've got a lot

1591
01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:53.600
of updates for everyone. Okay,
great, and we're back. All right,

1592
01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:56.960
let's get into it straight away.
It's very refreshing break. Yeah,

1593
01:34:57.359 --> 01:35:00.600
I feel reinvigorated. Guys listening have
no idea what they do, but they

1594
01:35:00.600 --> 01:35:03.960
get massages. Yeah. We have
people come in this like the whole team.

1595
01:35:04.199 --> 01:35:08.319
I actually got a mud bath.
Yeah, it was amazing. It's

1596
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:12.600
my pores are open. I feel
refreshed and theresas toxins have been removed.

1597
01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:15.399
It's perfect, just like going into
g dcs. Want to make sure that

1598
01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:18.239
you feel properly refreshed. I get
my Manny Petty every week on the podcast

1599
01:35:19.079 --> 01:35:23.720
during the breaks. So smart.
Yeah, you gotta take care of you,

1600
01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:26.039
gotta take care of yourself. You
gotta take care of yourself. I'm

1601
01:35:26.079 --> 01:35:30.399
just finishing up my high Klonic right
now. How's that going good? It

1602
01:35:30.439 --> 01:35:33.159
made like twenty five cents nice.
I think I think I think the shop

1603
01:35:33.239 --> 01:35:36.119
fact is about to give out.
But yeah, thanks for bringing that though,

1604
01:35:36.159 --> 01:35:39.960
Patrick, He's almost welcome. Yeah, it's multiple uses. Yeah,

1605
01:35:40.319 --> 01:35:45.000
great, great, all right,
let's get into it. King of Fighters

1606
01:35:45.079 --> 01:35:47.399
ninety eight, let's bring it back. Let's do it all right. You

1607
01:35:47.479 --> 01:35:50.000
go ahead. You're a game company. All I can do is review it

1608
01:35:50.039 --> 01:35:53.760
at the end, So you go
ahead and take care of that and make

1609
01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:58.600
it good and make it good.
So not ultimate match, Like just what

1610
01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:00.960
do you The one of the one
people always banging on us to do is

1611
01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:03.319
uh cvs two capcom Verse SMK.
Sure, yeah, that'd be great.

1612
01:36:03.479 --> 01:36:06.039
That's the one people always want us
to do. But you know, like

1613
01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:09.840
always, we don't own these ip
right, No what, just get out

1614
01:36:09.840 --> 01:36:12.079
there and do the leg work.
I'm sure everyone wants to work together.

1615
01:36:12.159 --> 01:36:14.479
This is another that's why there hasn't
been one in a very long time.

1616
01:36:14.560 --> 01:36:18.079
It's not a classic example of people
don't really know how things happen in the

1617
01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:23.239
industry and why I like talking about
it because, like I think only good

1618
01:36:23.279 --> 01:36:25.960
things can come from it. Even
if they don't like the answer, at

1619
01:36:26.039 --> 01:36:28.600
least now they know. And maybe
I wanted to answer those questions again,

1620
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:31.520
you're definitely gonna answer to lay it
out for me. How do things happen

1621
01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:34.560
in the industry? So, say
we wanted to do something like wind jammers,

1622
01:36:34.760 --> 01:36:38.359
Okay, it's a class, I'll
say it. You want to do

1623
01:36:38.479 --> 01:36:41.199
something like wind, just say,
hypothetically there was a wind let's say,

1624
01:36:41.239 --> 01:36:46.159
a resurgence in popularity right by the
way, you know what Adam Hart gave

1625
01:36:46.239 --> 01:36:54.399
the keats he uh finished first place
at the Midwest Classic. Uh wind Jammers

1626
01:36:54.479 --> 01:36:57.279
tournament. He's got a trophy.
Wow, there's a classic. He is

1627
01:36:57.319 --> 01:37:00.319
godlike for the wind Jammers. Yeah. But anyway, so see in town

1628
01:37:00.319 --> 01:37:02.319
because I got the I got the
set up here. I don't think he's

1629
01:37:02.319 --> 01:37:05.239
coming. I don't think it's coming
time. Who's his character? I don't

1630
01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:11.880
know. Blond guy, that blond
guy, I don't know. Uh So

1631
01:37:12.039 --> 01:37:14.560
anyway, so you have three choices, right. You can try to buy

1632
01:37:14.600 --> 01:37:18.359
the IP, which is notoriously difficult
from Japanese companies because it's not so much

1633
01:37:18.439 --> 01:37:21.359
like the IP you'll lose, but
like you know, they're afraid they're going

1634
01:37:21.399 --> 01:37:26.560
to give away secrets of code or
whatever it is. Like, it's notoriously

1635
01:37:26.640 --> 01:37:30.960
difficult to buy ips from Japanese companies. So that's probably off the table.

1636
01:37:30.439 --> 01:37:34.920
So then you could license it.
But then if you license it, you'd

1637
01:37:34.960 --> 01:37:39.920
probably give them some percentage, like
say, anywhere between ten and thirty percent

1638
01:37:40.479 --> 01:37:44.760
and some guaranteed minimum return. Right, But then you're investing money to make

1639
01:37:44.840 --> 01:37:47.680
someone else's IP better, right,
right? Yeah, And that doesn't make

1640
01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:50.800
sense long term, that's crazy.
Oh, it doesn't make sense even short

1641
01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:54.600
term, right, Like I'd much
rather invest in something I own, and

1642
01:37:55.159 --> 01:37:58.359
you know, you could like see, basically I can make like a five

1643
01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:01.039
percent profit on wind jammers or potentially
a much bigger profit on something we create

1644
01:38:01.079 --> 01:38:04.279
from scratch, right right, So
it's like, so licensing probably doesn't make

1645
01:38:04.279 --> 01:38:06.279
any sense, makes a lot of
sense for those guys, but wouldn't make

1646
01:38:06.319 --> 01:38:12.199
any sense for someone like me.
And then there is have someone and I

1647
01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:15.199
said, kay, pay us to
do it, and that's probably the avenue

1648
01:38:15.239 --> 01:38:17.800
would have to go. But a
new a new contenders reared its head.

1649
01:38:17.880 --> 01:38:23.119
Jack, there's a new option of
it, all right. So our good

1650
01:38:23.159 --> 01:38:26.640
friends at Sony and we are kind
of like the flagship prototype in this.

1651
01:38:27.840 --> 01:38:29.960
I don't know if you're if you
guys went to games comra you heard,

1652
01:38:30.039 --> 01:38:31.119
but like they did this big thing
on stage. You're like, hey,

1653
01:38:31.359 --> 01:38:34.039
let us know what games you want
us to help bring back. And they

1654
01:38:34.079 --> 01:38:38.359
have their third party game production run
by Geo and all that stuff. Right,

1655
01:38:38.760 --> 01:38:42.159
And so it's called it's a hashtag
saving the list. You can follow

1656
01:38:42.199 --> 01:38:45.479
the conversation, gentlemen in real time. God, So it's building the list,

1657
01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:48.119
building the lists, building the list. You're saving the lists, building

1658
01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:51.319
the list, You're correct, Yeah, hashtag building the list. Yeah,

1659
01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:57.239
not at building the list. I'm
a Twitter expert. And so people tweeted

1660
01:38:57.279 --> 01:39:00.119
Geo all day with hashtag building the
list, and then you call out the

1661
01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:03.880
ninety five percent of shen Move crazies
and then you see walk. These are

1662
01:39:03.880 --> 01:39:08.439
the other games people want to make. And so if we can get enough

1663
01:39:08.479 --> 01:39:13.359
people tweeting at Geo Corsi that they
want to see win Jammer's revival, then

1664
01:39:13.439 --> 01:39:16.039
Sony can step in and kind of
act as at intermediary and help alleviate a

1665
01:39:16.079 --> 01:39:19.520
lot of these problems because, let's
face it, there's no way S and

1666
01:39:19.600 --> 01:39:24.319
K is gonna pay Iron Galaxy dollars. That's just not happening. No,

1667
01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:29.199
Like, there's very few companies that
can Thank you Bethesda, thank you Sony,

1668
01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:31.520
thank you Microsoft, Thank you two
K. I love you dearly,

1669
01:39:32.159 --> 01:39:38.840
WB I love you too. Don't
think I've forgot Yeah, and so this

1670
01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:42.279
is kind of our quickest route to
get this game done. So people should

1671
01:39:42.319 --> 01:39:45.000
tweet at Geo Corsi a Geo Corsi
hashtag and if you want to, and

1672
01:39:45.079 --> 01:39:48.439
if you want to, also maybe
tweeted Adam Boys too, because this is

1673
01:39:48.520 --> 01:39:51.399
kind of this whole thing, Like
Geo it wasn't there. Adam had this

1674
01:39:51.439 --> 01:39:55.039
crazy idea and he hired Geo to
do it, So you should probably tweet

1675
01:39:55.039 --> 01:40:00.600
at them both with hashtag building the
list, hashtag follow the conversation. I'll

1676
01:40:00.600 --> 01:40:02.760
bet say I want wind Jammers on
PS four and Vita. That's a long

1677
01:40:02.840 --> 01:40:09.199
hashtag. No that that part's not
the hashtag. That's not that's a Twitter

1678
01:40:09.239 --> 01:40:13.600
amateur. But yeah, that that's
why. Uh so you should do that,

1679
01:40:14.199 --> 01:40:15.520
even I'm about to dismiss it.
You should do that because that'd be

1680
01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:19.359
funny. But that's why these things
are very very hard to do. Yeah,

1681
01:40:20.119 --> 01:40:25.880
well, what about the other option, which is, yeah, take

1682
01:40:26.079 --> 01:40:29.520
take a game like an IP that
you do have more control over with a

1683
01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:31.720
cast of characters, then, because
then the only literally so if you if

1684
01:40:31.720 --> 01:40:36.119
you make a new wind Jammers game, there's a chance that's someone outside of

1685
01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:41.159
the Giant Bomb viewership would buy it. There's a remote chance of that.

1686
01:40:41.479 --> 01:40:44.479
Yeah, I guess if you make
I don't know why they would, but

1687
01:40:44.560 --> 01:40:48.079
yeah, maybe if you make a
wind Jammers game that's not called wind Jammers,

1688
01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:51.640
then I bet I bet you not
even half the Giant Bomb people will

1689
01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:55.119
know what's happened, right, Like
they'll be like, this isn't a wind

1690
01:40:55.239 --> 01:40:58.199
like you know, that's why you
need to bolt it onto an ip that

1691
01:40:58.279 --> 01:41:02.319
you already have some contro roll over
records here, wind jammers, no Microsoft

1692
01:41:02.399 --> 01:41:10.319
Zones records here. Dive Kick,
it's called with but dive I would it's

1693
01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:15.159
called catch throw. The cast of
Dive Kick who decides to enter a competitive

1694
01:41:15.239 --> 01:41:18.439
disc throwing tournament. We've got bigger
plans for the cast of Dive Kick than

1695
01:41:18.560 --> 01:41:24.079
just mere beach battles with frisbees.
We've got broad ranging plans. Okay,

1696
01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:28.399
we basically wrote a we called the
story Bible. I don't know what most

1697
01:41:28.439 --> 01:41:32.640
studios called. We called the story
Bible. Yeah, and it's mister n

1698
01:41:32.720 --> 01:41:38.560
hen tie. But the other ten
percent is really good and we're gonna tell

1699
01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:42.680
like the rich emotional tapestry of what
it was like growing in West Philadelphia for

1700
01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:46.359
Diving Kick. And uh yeah,
other studios called that fan fiction. No,

1701
01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:49.439
no, no, it's rich when
stuff that you own, it can't

1702
01:41:49.479 --> 01:41:55.840
be. It can't be fan fiction. Kids. Oh yeah, so no,

1703
01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:58.840
it's gonna be. Uh you know, we we we actually did consider

1704
01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:01.840
this for briefly, but it's just
without the name, it's hard to sell.

1705
01:42:02.119 --> 01:42:06.159
Yeah, without that hot wind Jammer's
name that everyone they can't know.

1706
01:42:06.520 --> 01:42:11.119
I guarantee you like wind Jammers is
the value. It's not the game,

1707
01:42:11.239 --> 01:42:15.359
right like people, it's like it's
like any old game, like like Metal

1708
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:18.399
Slug. Sureing people buy Metal Slug
because it's a good game or whatever because

1709
01:42:18.399 --> 01:42:20.800
they remember having fun playing Metal Sung. Yeah, because I mean, like

1710
01:42:20.800 --> 01:42:25.520
the last couple of Metal Hull games
were kind of blame without commenting on that,

1711
01:42:25.720 --> 01:42:29.319
like they they remember having fun playing
Metal Slug. It's I could like

1712
01:42:29.359 --> 01:42:32.479
metal and that's like it'd be the
same thing with wind Jammers, right,

1713
01:42:32.560 --> 01:42:35.359
and without the name, you don't
have that, And then it's just like

1714
01:42:35.840 --> 01:42:39.479
the most you could sell would be
like fifty thousand copies. But you can

1715
01:42:39.520 --> 01:42:43.520
always hire a guy who was like
on the credits for wind Jammers, right,

1716
01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:50.039
and then say Windjammers. They actually
didn't think about that. Option five.

1717
01:42:50.279 --> 01:42:55.920
That's pretty holy cow? Yeah are
you this is why I'm your intern?

1718
01:42:56.239 --> 01:43:01.840
Yeah, so yeah, that's a
good idea. Oh okay, so

1719
01:43:01.920 --> 01:43:06.159
there's now a fifth table back on
So actually, don't tweet at GEO.

1720
01:43:06.239 --> 01:43:11.479
I'm gonna explore option five because I
might not want I want to want to

1721
01:43:11.520 --> 01:43:14.199
cut him out find some poor guys. I'm sure. I'm sure the names

1722
01:43:14.239 --> 01:43:16.640
on the wind Jever's credits are probably
one hundred accurate because it's usually Japanese credits.

1723
01:43:16.680 --> 01:43:23.119
Go. Yeah, well, like
I said, I want to explore

1724
01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:28.079
it, and Huberman's that you be
montreal now. I think if you see

1725
01:43:28.119 --> 01:43:31.399
me tweet option five is off the
table. Then everyone tweeted Geo and l

1726
01:43:31.840 --> 01:43:36.159
got it like okay, all right, we've we've got a proper plan.

1727
01:43:38.079 --> 01:43:40.439
So I guess is that the because
that's been the thing is, you know

1728
01:43:40.479 --> 01:43:43.840
a lot of people are bringing back
old ips and and you know, treating

1729
01:43:43.880 --> 01:43:46.479
them in different ways, making free
to play games, and and you know,

1730
01:43:46.560 --> 01:43:50.319
handling that stuff, you know either
like sort of well or kind of

1731
01:43:50.359 --> 01:43:56.600
poorly. And do you think that
it's that there's value in So I guess

1732
01:43:56.800 --> 01:43:59.119
I guess the Actually the answer is
you do think there's real value in the

1733
01:43:59.199 --> 01:44:00.800
names of old I well, it's
it's scale, right, It's like,

1734
01:44:01.479 --> 01:44:04.880
so, say, like the difference
if you made a really great game,

1735
01:44:05.640 --> 01:44:12.399
like a four player local person game, maybe some online play that played like

1736
01:44:12.479 --> 01:44:15.680
wind Jammers, right, and it
was great, and but it's gonna be

1737
01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:17.960
but you're you're now you're not selling
Windjammers, You're selling an indie game,

1738
01:44:18.199 --> 01:44:23.920
right, and the market for indie
games is gonna be Here's forget the outliers

1739
01:44:24.079 --> 01:44:26.520
like Braid and stuff like the there's
always go to people to break through.

1740
01:44:26.920 --> 01:44:29.760
But the size of the quote unquote
indie game market is between one hundred and

1741
01:44:29.760 --> 01:44:33.159
two hundred thousand people, right,
right, That's basically what you're looking at.

1742
01:44:33.199 --> 01:44:36.039
And so you have to scale because
we have to make money doing this

1743
01:44:36.079 --> 01:44:39.199
because if we don't make money,
then we don't get to make more games,

1744
01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:42.840
right, and so you have to
scale the game for a budget.

1745
01:44:42.920 --> 01:44:45.760
That makes sense that that kind of
you know, uh, that kind of

1746
01:44:45.840 --> 01:44:49.800
like user base. Right. But
so if you just if you're not selling

1747
01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:54.439
wind Jammers proper, you're selling even
smaller net because like, of all people

1748
01:44:54.479 --> 01:44:58.560
like indie games, people that like
four player local competitive games is even smaller,

1749
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:01.479
right right, Like it's a tough
style, I mean just and even

1750
01:45:01.520 --> 01:45:05.840
people who like it are not sometimes
there's not in situations where they can play

1751
01:45:05.880 --> 01:45:10.199
those games. Like I like,
you know, I'm gonna go out and

1752
01:45:10.279 --> 01:45:13.239
get like a bunch of controllers so
I can play Power Fall with my kids.

1753
01:45:13.399 --> 01:45:15.199
Yeah, Like that's gonna be fun, but then they're not gonna want

1754
01:45:15.199 --> 01:45:17.880
to play it because they're kids.
They'll build play with me for a week,

1755
01:45:17.880 --> 01:45:19.880
and then they'll want to go back
to something else or whatever it is

1756
01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:23.079
and be like, oh, I
don't want to play Tower Fall. I

1757
01:45:23.119 --> 01:45:25.279
don't know. It's the only age
old thing we've talked about better times.

1758
01:45:25.600 --> 01:45:29.800
But like and so, uh,
but there are people. But then if

1759
01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:31.279
you can sell wind Jammers, you're
not selling an indie game. You're selling

1760
01:45:31.319 --> 01:45:35.399
a retro game. Sure, and
that is a bigger that is in fact

1761
01:45:36.039 --> 01:45:41.199
a bigger market. That's like not
that's like, yeah, that's not debatable,

1762
01:45:41.720 --> 01:45:43.720
Okay, Uh, you have stuff
to do it, right, You

1763
01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:45.399
stuff to execute your stuff to find
that. You have to find a way

1764
01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:49.199
to to get the people that loved
wind Jammers and love neo geo games and

1765
01:45:49.279 --> 01:45:53.199
love that culture. You have to
be able to find a way to communicate

1766
01:45:53.279 --> 01:45:57.359
to them very cheaply that you've done
this. But then that's a bigger market.

1767
01:45:57.399 --> 01:46:00.119
And that's that's like you're talking about
like four player games online doing it

1768
01:46:00.239 --> 01:46:04.239
doing when Jammer's rights. Uh,
that's more. You need to spend more

1769
01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:08.079
than you could just five you know, one hundred thousand copies. Sure,

1770
01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:11.800
whatever. Yeah, so it's cut
the players in half when jammers two player

1771
01:46:11.880 --> 01:46:15.640
games so smart, yeah, so
smart, and then making it that works.

1772
01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:18.079
That scales right, that's just budget
right, that's half the budget.

1773
01:46:18.159 --> 01:46:20.520
Yeah, that's the way it works. Yeah, three dollars character and just

1774
01:46:20.680 --> 01:46:23.640
used like I don't know, the
killer Instant model or something like that.

1775
01:46:24.079 --> 01:46:27.399
Yeah, that's free to play.
It makes every game better, yeah,

1776
01:46:27.520 --> 01:46:30.880
totally. Yeah, just take out
the money part and slide it in somewhere

1777
01:46:30.920 --> 01:46:39.000
else. Business. So some news
happens. It's not just GDC going around

1778
01:46:39.079 --> 01:46:43.079
or on these parts. A few
things have happened here. Kicking off this

1779
01:46:43.239 --> 01:46:46.600
week, Kochi Igarashi as a state
of the he is leaving or has left

1780
01:46:46.680 --> 01:46:51.399
Konami to start a new studio.
Explains why Konami when I asked about because

1781
01:46:51.439 --> 01:46:56.159
he's doing a panel at GDC about
like Symphony of the Night or like the

1782
01:46:56.239 --> 01:46:59.239
Metro. Yeah, like is in
the title of the talk. Yeah.

1783
01:46:59.399 --> 01:47:01.000
I email them and it was just
like, hey, it's like he this

1784
01:47:01.039 --> 01:47:03.319
would makes sense, like he would
be doing interviews. You're like, not

1785
01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:06.279
that I'm aware of. And I
was like that's a weird response. Yeah,

1786
01:47:06.479 --> 01:47:11.399
like not that I'm aware of.
Like that's not a no or a

1787
01:47:12.520 --> 01:47:15.119
yeah, like oh now it makes
sense. He is not at economy anymore.

1788
01:47:15.199 --> 01:47:17.800
Yeah, starting his own studio for
him? What you still might do

1789
01:47:17.960 --> 01:47:20.880
something with him this week? Yeah, yeah, he's We can get him

1790
01:47:20.880 --> 01:47:23.680
in here, hope, I mean
hopefully brought the hat and the whip.

1791
01:47:23.880 --> 01:47:26.640
If he doesn't, no, no
whip, no deal, Like I don't

1792
01:47:26.640 --> 01:47:28.560
want to talk to him. He
doesn't, how's he going to keep the

1793
01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:30.479
vampires out of here? That's true? I wonder, like, you know,

1794
01:47:30.560 --> 01:47:32.680
if he were to set out,
I mean, so he's starting out

1795
01:47:32.680 --> 01:47:36.479
to start his own studio, you
want to assume that he would get right

1796
01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:42.039
back to doing the things that he's
kind of maybe best at, or one

1797
01:47:42.039 --> 01:47:45.159
of the things that he's become known
for, and make that style of game.

1798
01:47:45.199 --> 01:47:48.600
I mean, it's his his GDC
talk is about that topic. It's

1799
01:47:48.600 --> 01:47:53.239
probably still on his mind. But
he would not be using the castawania ip.

1800
01:47:53.479 --> 01:47:56.279
Would he make something with vampires?
Would Dracula still be a threat?

1801
01:47:56.600 --> 01:48:00.800
What is I hope? Would he
just do what I did just lunch Kickstarter

1802
01:48:00.159 --> 01:48:04.279
try and make a like Cassivania style
game, Just say, like this one's

1803
01:48:04.319 --> 01:48:10.239
mummies, you guys, I don't
know. Mummies are crazy. The names

1804
01:48:10.399 --> 01:48:14.399
the game mummies are crazy looks like
the letter R and it's backwards because no

1805
01:48:14.520 --> 01:48:16.239
presents. Yeah, because you're crazy. I wonder what the legality of that

1806
01:48:16.279 --> 01:48:20.640
stuff would be the R because Dracula
is like long in the public domain.

1807
01:48:20.800 --> 01:48:24.399
Right, yeah, you can.
He could just go make a game about

1808
01:48:25.079 --> 01:48:27.720
hilarious right, I would love it. Yeah, businessman Dave Lang, what

1809
01:48:27.760 --> 01:48:30.640
do you think? Uh, that's
why I have lawyers. Okay, I

1810
01:48:30.680 --> 01:48:33.000
don't I don't guess at things like
this. I could pay three hundred dollars

1811
01:48:33.039 --> 01:48:36.439
an hour and have someone tell I
think that makes you can use Dracula.

1812
01:48:36.680 --> 01:48:41.640
But what if his name is backwards? If he opens his cape and three

1813
01:48:41.840 --> 01:48:45.479
fireballs come out, that is you
are over the live You should have seen

1814
01:48:45.600 --> 01:48:49.079
the first time we showed the lawyers
not to get off quick digression. We

1815
01:48:49.199 --> 01:48:53.960
showed them all the parody elements we
were doing and dive kick. Yeah,

1816
01:48:54.159 --> 01:48:58.600
and like lawyers love parody, they
love to clear it, they love to

1817
01:48:58.640 --> 01:49:01.039
explain it. Yeah, and uh
yeah, that was a fun couple of

1818
01:49:01.079 --> 01:49:03.680
meetings. But it's like, no, no, you don't think you because

1819
01:49:03.680 --> 01:49:06.319
they don't know anything about games,
right, Like they're their games lawyers,

1820
01:49:06.359 --> 01:49:10.199
but they don't know anything about games. And it's hilarious. It's probably actually

1821
01:49:10.199 --> 01:49:12.640
a good thing in a weird way, because if they did, they'd probably

1822
01:49:12.640 --> 01:49:14.439
be a little more apt to go, oh yeah, it's totally different.

1823
01:49:14.439 --> 01:49:16.319
You're right, yeah, you don't
like what the acid test or if something

1824
01:49:17.039 --> 01:49:21.079
is, I guess this is what
they do in courts, Like so they

1825
01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:24.600
would say, like what they what
they'll do if they say, oh,

1826
01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:28.880
no, you clearly just ripped off
Johnny Cage or whatever. Right, what

1827
01:49:28.960 --> 01:49:31.640
they do is they take your character
and they would take Johnny Cage and they

1828
01:49:31.640 --> 01:49:34.800
would go to like malls across the
country and they would just like pay people

1829
01:49:34.880 --> 01:49:36.840
Johnny Cage Mall tour, Yeah,
and they would pay people to do a

1830
01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:40.720
survey. Do these two things look
alike? Do they this is look inspired

1831
01:49:40.760 --> 01:49:43.840
by this? This is any way
related to this? And if that's that's

1832
01:49:43.880 --> 01:49:45.439
like the acid tests like they do
use in courts. It is like for

1833
01:49:45.520 --> 01:49:48.800
determining like if someone just ripped something
off or if it's just inspired by or

1834
01:49:48.840 --> 01:49:51.319
whatever it is, right, and
if most of the people felt it was,

1835
01:49:53.079 --> 01:49:56.079
then it's you know, then you
have to justify your parody, right,

1836
01:49:56.479 --> 01:49:58.520
But if people don't feel it's related
at all, then you don't need

1837
01:49:58.560 --> 01:50:01.319
to justify the parody, right,
And uh, yeah, it's it's really

1838
01:50:01.479 --> 01:50:08.039
interesting and depressing and uh, everything's
broken in on our laws. Yeah,

1839
01:50:08.159 --> 01:50:12.239
no laws. How do you scary
to make this digression longer? How do

1840
01:50:12.279 --> 01:50:15.720
you prove its parody and not ripping
off? So there's there's a very there

1841
01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:17.800
is actually a very firm definition of
parody. So parody you have to be

1842
01:50:17.880 --> 01:50:21.560
making some kind of commentary about the
topic. Like one of dive kicks problems

1843
01:50:21.600 --> 01:50:28.600
originally was we were trying to paradise
Is that a word? Sure? Now

1844
01:50:28.800 --> 01:50:30.960
yeah, we're trying to like we're
trying to paradise individual elements from a bunch

1845
01:50:30.960 --> 01:50:35.079
of different fighting games, right,
And you can't do that, like like

1846
01:50:35.199 --> 01:50:41.800
you you can. You can do
a parody on let's say, more Marvel

1847
01:50:41.920 --> 01:50:44.119
Verse, Capcom three, you could
do a parody of that, but you

1848
01:50:44.159 --> 01:50:46.119
couldn't take like one's not a salad
bar, Like you couldn't take an element

1849
01:50:46.119 --> 01:50:49.159
out of Marvel Capcom three, an
element out of Blast Blue And then like,

1850
01:50:49.239 --> 01:50:51.119
oh, we're just gonna know,
because then you're just ripping off characters

1851
01:50:51.159 --> 01:50:55.399
out all these games wholesale, right, And that's like one of the kind

1852
01:50:55.439 --> 01:51:00.119
of common distinctions about it. And
uh, it's really really tricky, and

1853
01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:02.760
basically it's one of those things you
get smarter and dumber at the same time

1854
01:51:02.800 --> 01:51:05.119
the more you learn about it.
It's like stuff you don't want to know,

1855
01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:09.960
but it's filling your brains. I
would never there are a lot of

1856
01:51:10.039 --> 01:51:13.119
changes that needed to be made to
Dive kick Over. It's over the course

1857
01:51:13.159 --> 01:51:15.520
of its development. No, we
were always legally compliant. We never violated

1858
01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:19.079
any IP holders of course, like
that. There was no prototype version.

1859
01:51:19.560 --> 01:51:21.960
I don't even know what a prototype
is. Yeah, so no, we

1860
01:51:23.039 --> 01:51:25.960
were always compliant. I don't know
what these files in my drop box are.

1861
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:30.119
No, we were for the most
were for the most part in really

1862
01:51:30.159 --> 01:51:33.680
good shape. Like there are some
things they wanted, like like, there

1863
01:51:33.720 --> 01:51:36.239
are some things we did not because
we're in violation, but just because some

1864
01:51:36.399 --> 01:51:42.359
people like Marvel is incredibly litigious.
Yeah, they will sue you at the

1865
01:51:42.399 --> 01:51:44.840
drop of hat just because they're a
huge company and you're not. And so

1866
01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:48.079
there's some things we changed willfully,
just knowing that, right, But even

1867
01:51:48.119 --> 01:51:51.279
though it's like we probably would have
won, but it would have we would

1868
01:51:51.319 --> 01:51:55.600
have lost if we got sued periods. So it's one of those things you

1869
01:51:55.640 --> 01:51:57.920
have to worry about, Like when
you have a company and you have some

1870
01:51:58.159 --> 01:52:00.800
money like that, someone might want
to have one of those things. Yeah,

1871
01:52:00.880 --> 01:52:03.319
well, yeah, okay, I
have a company. But you know,

1872
01:52:03.439 --> 01:52:06.079
theoretically the company is worth enough for
that they could come in and shut

1873
01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:10.880
it down and then own it themselves. The crappy thing is not whether you

1874
01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:13.239
are right or wrong, and is
whether you can afford to go to court

1875
01:52:13.640 --> 01:52:15.960
exactly. Yeah, And that was
the thing when we were doing we did

1876
01:52:16.039 --> 01:52:19.720
those T shirts. That was like
the biggest boondoggle, like the T shirt

1877
01:52:19.720 --> 01:52:21.560
guy ran off with the money at
the end of it, and it was

1878
01:52:21.880 --> 01:52:27.359
we ended up doing it for charity
because we did Oscar Meyer logos, but

1879
01:52:27.399 --> 01:52:30.720
it said Oscar Mike like call duty. I tried by one was but I

1880
01:52:30.760 --> 01:52:32.920
was too late. Yeah, And
it was one of those things where like

1881
01:52:33.000 --> 01:52:35.119
the you know, eventually a lawyer
got to look at it went all I

1882
01:52:35.159 --> 01:52:39.279
don't know. I was like,
come on, man, they sell bootleg

1883
01:52:39.399 --> 01:52:42.800
logo T shirts in the mall all
day long. And the story was with

1884
01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:45.479
that was like yeah, but the
company that makes that is two guys in

1885
01:52:45.560 --> 01:52:49.880
a garage, not the founder of
c Net fronting this internet company. Like

1886
01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:53.880
someone could look at this and look
at it and go like, well there's

1887
01:52:53.920 --> 01:52:56.079
some money there. We can probably
at least get them to, you know,

1888
01:52:56.840 --> 01:53:00.319
and it just it was it was
the moment where I was like this,

1889
01:53:00.159 --> 01:53:03.479
at some point, this cool idea
is not worth it anymore. But

1890
01:53:03.560 --> 01:53:05.640
then it got away worse because we're
like, let's do it for charity.

1891
01:53:05.680 --> 01:53:08.479
It's like, okay, cool,
We'll totally do it for charity. And

1892
01:53:08.560 --> 01:53:12.880
then the guy that we had worked
with to make the T shirts disappeared with

1893
01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:15.760
the money and stop surprising for a
T shirt guy. Yeah, you wouldn't

1894
01:53:15.760 --> 01:53:23.640
think he STU line of work,
huh, but learned something new every day.

1895
01:53:23.680 --> 01:53:27.760
In this case, it went a
little sideways on us. So anyway

1896
01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:31.359
about that guy from Kanami, Yeah, but yes, Igarashi no longer there,

1897
01:53:31.600 --> 01:53:33.319
so yeah, you want to have
to wonder, Yeah, if it's

1898
01:53:33.319 --> 01:53:38.479
just literally I wonder if we'll see
more kind of developers of that era,

1899
01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:42.840
of that stature that are maybe not
getting to make the games they want to

1900
01:53:42.880 --> 01:53:45.920
make anymore because the changes in that
market and just the changes in the market

1901
01:53:45.960 --> 01:53:48.479
overall looking at the success of something
like Mighty Number nine and going like,

1902
01:53:48.520 --> 01:53:50.960
oh, we can totally, Yeah, we can totally. He's one of

1903
01:53:50.960 --> 01:53:55.600
those guys, absolutely one of those
guys, and those people that are passionate

1904
01:53:55.640 --> 01:53:59.520
about him and and the types of
games he makes will totally he is fun

1905
01:53:59.760 --> 01:54:02.680
fund game. My gut says,
New Symphony of the Night would create even

1906
01:54:02.800 --> 01:54:09.439
more of a buzz than New Mega
Man. But yeah maybe that's oh man

1907
01:54:09.560 --> 01:54:11.920
like like maybe it's maybe it's a
toss up. Yeah, I just I

1908
01:54:11.960 --> 01:54:15.239
feel like Symphony of the Night is
like so revered if we're talking about like

1909
01:54:15.520 --> 01:54:19.640
MegaMan is like one of the old
time greats that's gone done nothing but wrong

1910
01:54:20.359 --> 01:54:25.119
lately. Uh, either way,
he would be able to pull it off.

1911
01:54:25.199 --> 01:54:27.439
Yeah. Yeah, And like those
games scope in a way that like

1912
01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:30.319
kick Starter makes sense, whereas like
the people that have these dumb fantasies about

1913
01:54:30.319 --> 01:54:33.319
like Shenmu three, like the amount
of money that would cost to make that

1914
01:54:33.520 --> 01:54:38.520
game the game you want does not
exist on Kickstarter. That's not that's not

1915
01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:43.279
six million dollars, that's like sixty
million dollars. Here's your option six.

1916
01:54:43.880 --> 01:54:46.640
Huh okay, Option six. Wind
Jammers from the creator of Symphony of the

1917
01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:53.520
Night. Yeah, rack Jammers,
you could probably do some cool stuff with

1918
01:54:53.520 --> 01:54:56.680
a whip and win Jammers, I
bet. Or you could probably do some

1919
01:54:56.760 --> 01:54:59.600
cool stuff with a disc and stuff. You could like perry the disc with

1920
01:54:59.680 --> 01:55:01.239
a whip. Yeah, just whip
it in weird ways. Don't give it

1921
01:55:01.279 --> 01:55:04.039
all away. For Freeman, there
were just ideation, right, and we're

1922
01:55:04.039 --> 01:55:08.479
ideating this is fine, copyrightable.
They have to mail this for ourselves.

1923
01:55:08.640 --> 01:55:11.760
Yeah. Do you think Igarashi just
played like Lord's Shadow Too? And I

1924
01:55:11.840 --> 01:55:14.159
was like, I'm I'm sucking out
of here, you know what? It

1925
01:55:14.279 --> 01:55:15.560
was like the seventh the Facebook game
that he was asked to make that he

1926
01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:19.920
finally just snapped, just like my
contract is done. I just wonder,

1927
01:55:20.039 --> 01:55:23.199
you know, because that was the
thing, like they said that Lord's Shadow

1928
01:55:23.239 --> 01:55:27.000
Too was kind of concluding that saga
and that that would be kind of it

1929
01:55:27.159 --> 01:55:31.039
for that that Castlevania timeline. Yeah, and you'd like to think, like,

1930
01:55:31.079 --> 01:55:33.520
oh, that means they're just going
to get back to the real deal

1931
01:55:34.359 --> 01:55:39.039
and give that man his hat and
his whip and his Belmont's back. Was

1932
01:55:39.079 --> 01:55:42.560
he doing Facebook games? Yeah?
I bet he designed all the quick time

1933
01:55:42.600 --> 01:55:45.119
events and then when it shipped he
saw the odd menu option. That was

1934
01:55:45.199 --> 01:55:49.520
it. It's like, fuck,
this ship got sworn to me. This

1935
01:55:49.640 --> 01:55:54.920
is the last time. Whipped the
awards off the shelf and ran out,

1936
01:55:55.319 --> 01:55:57.680
ran out. What are you talking
about? He swamped out on that.

1937
01:55:57.800 --> 01:56:01.239
Yeah, it's totally broke a window
and then hit a lampost straight up bass

1938
01:56:01.319 --> 01:56:05.439
style, but then swung back in, grabbed his hat and then was smart.

1939
01:56:05.720 --> 01:56:09.520
Yeah, I don't want to leave
the hap on. No, I

1940
01:56:09.560 --> 01:56:12.520
would love to see I will love
to see what that guy does next.

1941
01:56:13.439 --> 01:56:19.359
He's an interesting fella and has been
behind some fantastic Castlavania games. So Shadow

1942
01:56:19.399 --> 01:56:26.920
Complex too creative director of Shadow Complex. Only now it's Mummies and that's the

1943
01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:29.680
name of the game, Shadow Complex
too, Colin Only now it's Mummies.

1944
01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:33.720
Awesome soundtrack. Yeah, really looking
forward to it. Uh, let's see

1945
01:56:34.560 --> 01:56:44.319
Warner. The Warner Brothers have gone
ahead and announced that they are making a

1946
01:56:44.399 --> 01:56:48.479
new Gauntlet with Arrowhead Games, The
Magic of People, which seems like a

1947
01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:55.119
kind of a crazy perfect fit.
So who owned who put out Gauntlan originally

1948
01:56:55.560 --> 01:57:00.079
Atari, then it was purchased by
Midway when they bought the the Arcade arm

1949
01:57:00.119 --> 01:57:04.039
of Atari, and then they put
out Dark Legacy and all those other terrific

1950
01:57:04.119 --> 01:57:10.119
Gauntlet games. Okay, and then
that went to Warner in the sale.

1951
01:57:11.640 --> 01:57:14.520
Did you ever work on a Gauntlet
game at your time at Midway? The

1952
01:57:14.600 --> 01:57:16.920
one they did that Seven Sorrows game
when I was there, huh uh.

1953
01:57:17.000 --> 01:57:19.039
And I was friends with some of
the people working on that, but I

1954
01:57:19.119 --> 01:57:25.359
did not actually contribute. Okay,
so that was that was one Patrick's running

1955
01:57:25.399 --> 01:57:40.239
away Goodbye Midwest by Patrick. All
right, go play your horror games finally,

1956
01:57:40.720 --> 01:57:43.720
I know right now. Wait did
he say, see one Wednesda Chicago

1957
01:57:43.800 --> 01:57:45.760
is only pick enough for one of
us. He's jamming up my town.

1958
01:57:45.880 --> 01:57:48.680
Man, it's horse shit, yeah, yeah, flooding your town, like

1959
01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:53.279
yeah, everything he said. By
the way, it's a fucking classic Rube

1960
01:57:53.359 --> 01:57:58.960
Chicago guy. Like I moved in
this great basement apartment. I've heard that

1961
01:57:59.039 --> 01:58:01.479
like a billion times. All it
did, but except before it was like

1962
01:58:01.560 --> 01:58:05.199
all my friends that just graduated college
and moved into shitty basement apartments. Except

1963
01:58:05.239 --> 01:58:08.279
he's an adult. So good job, Patrick, Well, I mean to

1964
01:58:08.359 --> 01:58:13.319
fine adults, well just strictly in
age, okay, all right, yeah,

1965
01:58:13.479 --> 01:58:17.439
they got two stories. Yeah,
not in problem solving or mental mental

1966
01:58:17.479 --> 01:58:21.399
acuity. Just strictly, I don't
know. He's better that Splunky than you

1967
01:58:21.479 --> 01:58:24.960
are. Well, yeah, that's
all. I got paid to play Splunk.

1968
01:58:24.960 --> 01:58:28.079
I'd be pretty fucking good too.
But you know it's saying this is

1969
01:58:28.119 --> 01:58:30.720
fucking my fault, you know.
Yeah, Okay, all right, yeah,

1970
01:58:30.920 --> 01:58:36.520
okay, okay, okay, Jeff, Damn, that's cold. I'm

1971
01:58:36.560 --> 01:58:40.319
getting better though. I'm about this, Like I've now beat the game three

1972
01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:43.439
times. I feel like I'm it's
not just a matter of how many like

1973
01:58:43.520 --> 01:58:45.560
do I get to the black market? Do I scape the black market?

1974
01:58:45.720 --> 01:58:48.079
Yeah? And then it's like my
odds of doing well at that point are

1975
01:58:48.079 --> 01:58:51.479
really good. I'm gonna start my
Yama runs now. I played it for

1976
01:58:53.760 --> 01:58:57.399
six days or so and beat Patrick
on like the third or fourth day or

1977
01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:00.279
whatever, and was like, all
right, I'm out retire on Top's come

1978
01:59:00.359 --> 01:59:03.199
back, scome back video game player
beat means fatigo once we retired Champ Life

1979
01:59:03.239 --> 01:59:10.319
time Champ. Yeah, fucking perfect
record. Why did you change seats?

1980
01:59:10.359 --> 01:59:12.239
Bread? Because I like it?
Over here? What do you like it?

1981
01:59:12.319 --> 01:59:15.720
Just a microphone but mainly that giant
spotlight not pointing right in my face?

1982
01:59:15.680 --> 01:59:23.319
Okay, because you finished seven s
Uh, that was one. Yeah,

1983
01:59:23.359 --> 01:59:25.960
I think that was. Like there's
a lot of games at Midway that

1984
01:59:26.039 --> 01:59:30.079
I think everyone would agree, like
Midway was a really weird place because we're

1985
01:59:30.239 --> 01:59:35.560
crazy talented people there. There's crazy
passion of people there, Like that was

1986
01:59:35.560 --> 01:59:40.920
probably the most dense collection of talent
I've ever worked. Well, just we

1987
01:59:41.039 --> 01:59:43.920
could never put it together and make
good games. It always it always seemed

1988
01:59:43.920 --> 01:59:49.119
like the company was trying to really
do something with those old arcade IPAs to

1989
01:59:49.239 --> 01:59:54.640
the point where it just started weighing
them down. Because like when when seven

1990
01:59:54.680 --> 01:59:57.439
Sarrows was coming along, that was
right around the time the like Defender and

1991
01:59:57.640 --> 02:00:00.600
Joust were going no, no,
no, that was or that okay,

1992
02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:04.840
yeah that was There was a Defender
game, Defender Ships Joss didn't did that?

1993
02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:10.880
Defender came out, Defender was two
and two yeah, and it was

1994
02:00:10.960 --> 02:00:15.600
like behind the back, like third
person Ship Shooter, Wow, uh did

1995
02:00:15.640 --> 02:00:18.520
that just come and go? Yeah
I have. But like if you look

1996
02:00:18.560 --> 02:00:21.079
at the games, like the more
MK guys, they always they pick them

1997
02:00:21.119 --> 02:00:24.640
up and put them down. They've
been making MK yeah so many years,

1998
02:00:24.760 --> 02:00:27.680
so they know do it like everyone
outside of them. It's like, you

1999
02:00:27.760 --> 02:00:31.199
know, Ballers started off interesting concepts
and then just went down this weird rat

2000
02:00:31.239 --> 02:00:34.560
hole and ended up becoming irrelevant.
Blitz, you know, Blitz the League

2001
02:00:34.640 --> 02:00:39.439
was cute once, but nobody wanted
a second time. Stranglehold was awesome.

2002
02:00:39.479 --> 02:00:42.039
It was just like too late for
too long. By the time it came

2003
02:00:42.039 --> 02:00:45.439
out, it wasn't competitive anymore.
Still like really good in a lot of

2004
02:00:45.479 --> 02:00:47.399
ways, but just like other games
had passed it at this point, right,

2005
02:00:48.520 --> 02:00:51.159
and just that rinse and repeat with
that, right, And it's just

2006
02:00:51.199 --> 02:00:55.399
one of those things where you look
at the people that were there and the

2007
02:00:55.439 --> 02:01:00.560
potential energy that company had and the
output and you know, bumps me out.

2008
02:01:00.600 --> 02:01:03.640
I'm sure bumps almost everybody out too. It was there. But if

2009
02:01:03.720 --> 02:01:08.119
only this is Vega, this is
Vegas had made it out. Oh man,

2010
02:01:08.239 --> 02:01:11.239
I've kind about that. That was
I was at that last Midway press

2011
02:01:11.279 --> 02:01:15.359
event where the two showed this is
Vegas and yeah, I played a little

2012
02:01:15.399 --> 02:01:18.039
bit of it. Yeah, I'm
not gonna there's a lot of things.

2013
02:01:18.079 --> 02:01:24.159
I'll yeah, there's feelings. So
it's to keep this the games actually came

2014
02:01:24.199 --> 02:01:28.199
out, Okay, I'll comment on
the Doctor Mudo. I just remember even

2015
02:01:28.239 --> 02:01:30.920
at that event, I remember the
three distinct like modes of gameplay. They

2016
02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:34.840
were showing they had booted off of
three different debugs, Like right, it's

2017
02:01:34.880 --> 02:01:41.239
like this station the driving and then
gambling I think was the other one.

2018
02:01:41.479 --> 02:01:43.239
I think you're right. Yeah,
it was like they had to go to

2019
02:01:43.279 --> 02:01:45.039
a different console. It's cool.
Like that's the thing about even that game,

2020
02:01:45.119 --> 02:01:48.159
right, like it seems super ambitious. Yeah, like like nothing else,

2021
02:01:48.199 --> 02:01:50.239
it just seemed like it hadn't come
together at that point. Like I

2022
02:01:50.319 --> 02:01:54.159
was never a super big fan of
that game, like or what it you

2023
02:01:54.239 --> 02:01:56.920
know, just all the resources it
sucked or whatever in the company. But

2024
02:01:57.039 --> 02:02:00.520
like they were doing some cool stuff
like the way you could cheat cards and

2025
02:02:00.520 --> 02:02:03.520
there was super like like quirky and
neat and fun, like they had something

2026
02:02:03.600 --> 02:02:09.159
novel about every game mode they had. It's just they needed like a company

2027
02:02:09.159 --> 02:02:12.079
bigger than Midway to be able to
support them so they could pull it all

2028
02:02:12.079 --> 02:02:14.439
together. You know, like that's
a game, that's a game Midway never

2029
02:02:14.520 --> 02:02:16.920
should have green. Let it's not
necessarily because like those guys could never pulled

2030
02:02:16.960 --> 02:02:20.079
it off because it was so ambitious, right, It's more just like those

2031
02:02:20.119 --> 02:02:24.640
guys just needed more people and more
support than Midway could have given them.

2032
02:02:24.720 --> 02:02:27.159
To do it, and we should
have known that ahead of time. So

2033
02:02:27.279 --> 02:02:30.319
like anytime I'm banging on that game, it's not like the dev or the

2034
02:02:30.399 --> 02:02:33.199
team or whatever. It's just like
that one is one we shouldn't have even

2035
02:02:33.279 --> 02:02:36.920
tried to do. And there's some
other games like that too. It was

2036
02:02:36.960 --> 02:02:45.000
like that John Singleton game, what
was it called Snoop Dogs on the Cover

2037
02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:48.680
that that got canceled like right when
I got there. That was like one

2038
02:02:48.720 --> 02:02:53.720
of the last like uh, Neil
the Castro when he got outstad as the

2039
02:02:53.760 --> 02:02:56.399
CEO and the new guy, David
Zucker came in and just like canceled a

2040
02:02:56.439 --> 02:02:59.880
bunch of games. That was one
of them. But yeah, it was

2041
02:03:00.119 --> 02:03:02.920
uh, like you know, Wheelman
ended up being a pretty fun game.

2042
02:03:03.039 --> 02:03:06.359
Yeah, wheel Man was good,
but that was like a Christmas miracle,

2043
02:03:06.760 --> 02:03:09.920
you know. That was like I
don't know how those guys pulled that off

2044
02:03:10.439 --> 02:03:12.920
and just but that's like the theme, right, and it's really it's a

2045
02:03:12.960 --> 02:03:16.199
bummer because that has so many awesome
people there and it would have been fun

2046
02:03:16.279 --> 02:03:19.359
to work with, you know,
guys like Johnny V and Adam for the

2047
02:03:19.399 --> 02:03:23.399
rest of our lives and do cool
shit. But like you know, we

2048
02:03:23.479 --> 02:03:26.600
had to go and do different stuff
because it wasn't happening there. Yeah,

2049
02:03:27.439 --> 02:03:29.600
well, you know, Adam and
johny V seem like they've they've moved on

2050
02:03:29.760 --> 02:03:33.479
to pretty good careers. Finally,
after bumping around for a while, there's

2051
02:03:33.560 --> 02:03:36.079
nothing that depresses me more in the
world. When I realized, like,

2052
02:03:36.199 --> 02:03:41.399
so, when me and Adam met, like he started like two weeks after

2053
02:03:41.439 --> 02:03:45.119
I did it midway and we're both
on Slugfest, I was like lead programmer

2054
02:03:45.399 --> 02:03:48.960
and he was like associate producer.
I could basically boss him around it will

2055
02:03:49.399 --> 02:03:53.279
because he was like, you know, two weeks on him. Yeah,

2056
02:03:53.560 --> 02:03:55.640
not only that, but I was
like the lead programmer and he was associate

2057
02:03:55.680 --> 02:03:59.520
producer, which at the time was
like a coffee a hair above into her.

2058
02:04:00.520 --> 02:04:03.119
And then at some point the executive
producer on the project realized, holy

2059
02:04:03.199 --> 02:04:05.880
shit, we're about to finish this
game and they haven't told me what the

2060
02:04:05.960 --> 02:04:09.520
next thing is. I'm probably getting
fired. I need to do to find

2061
02:04:09.560 --> 02:04:13.399
a job, and completely checked out. Like the second producer literally like didn't

2062
02:04:13.399 --> 02:04:15.800
come to work for like three months
because he was off like looking for other

2063
02:04:15.880 --> 02:04:19.640
things to do or whatever. So
Adam then became the de facto executive and

2064
02:04:19.840 --> 02:04:23.560
like I still didn't listen to him
then, yeah, because like I knew

2065
02:04:23.600 --> 02:04:27.600
what he really was. But then
it's like, you know, then it's

2066
02:04:27.600 --> 02:04:29.319
like, okay, we're by kind
of going through the ranks. I become

2067
02:04:29.359 --> 02:04:31.239
like studio tech director. He's like
in charge of Blitz, so I'm still

2068
02:04:31.359 --> 02:04:35.960
kind of above him studio director.
That's like you're you touch multiple games.

2069
02:04:36.039 --> 02:04:40.439
Yeah, so it's like but he's
like he's closing the gap rapidly and it's

2070
02:04:40.479 --> 02:04:44.159
like uh. And then he goes
to Capcom and becomes like director of production

2071
02:04:44.239 --> 02:04:47.279
there, And that was the hardest
day of my life. And I realized

2072
02:04:47.319 --> 02:04:54.880
that this, this this wonderful Canadian
friend of mine is now this dear friend

2073
02:04:55.039 --> 02:04:58.239
but achieved more in life than I
have. That was a sobering moment.

2074
02:04:58.279 --> 02:05:00.319
That was when I was looking the
mirror. Look in the mirror moments for

2075
02:05:00.399 --> 02:05:05.560
me And now, Jesus Christ,
you can't fucking open Neil Gaff without seeing

2076
02:05:05.640 --> 02:05:11.720
his picture. It's still basically this
is how I know that life is actually

2077
02:05:11.720 --> 02:05:16.359
a simulation that's not real, and
it's tailored to every person's individual torments,

2078
02:05:17.000 --> 02:05:19.960
Like there's someone out there programming,
like how can we really fuck with Dave's

2079
02:05:19.960 --> 02:05:24.479
simulation and I'm gonna wake up one
day and realize it was all bullshit and

2080
02:05:24.600 --> 02:05:27.239
still be furious about it. That's
mad. That's how mad I am.

2081
02:05:27.279 --> 02:05:31.920
He successful. But anyway, I'm
happy for JV though. Sure, yeah

2082
02:05:31.960 --> 02:05:34.119
he deserves it. I mean,
yeah, he you know he did.

2083
02:05:34.800 --> 02:05:38.319
And that guy worked on Crimecraft he
did, you know, yeah he did.

2084
02:05:38.359 --> 02:05:42.479
It deserves better than that, deserves
better than that. So yeah,

2085
02:05:42.520 --> 02:05:45.439
that Gauntlet games out in the summer
only on PC, and it's gonna have

2086
02:05:45.520 --> 02:05:51.880
Linux support for SteamOS supported and Steam
machines like in the first paragraph. Yeah,

2087
02:05:51.960 --> 02:05:55.520
that seems kind of crazy. We
were just talking about this last week

2088
02:05:55.600 --> 02:05:58.600
of like, when are we gonna
see the PC only released? Really usher

2089
02:05:58.680 --> 02:06:00.760
in this new age of like PCs
where it's at. I don't know that

2090
02:06:01.039 --> 02:06:06.039
we are, ye, but it's
definitely an interesting I wonder if this is

2091
02:06:06.119 --> 02:06:11.159
something where they just are announcing it
now and haven't gotten the concept approval or

2092
02:06:11.199 --> 02:06:15.079
whatever for consoles, because it seems
like a couch co op kind of game.

2093
02:06:15.479 --> 02:06:17.439
Yeah, and you know, we
just looked at Helldivers last week,

2094
02:06:17.479 --> 02:06:20.720
which is also from those guys.
Yep, it's Arrowhead, Arrowhead. I

2095
02:06:20.720 --> 02:06:23.960
don't know why. I always just
think of them as the Magic people.

2096
02:06:24.000 --> 02:06:28.039
I can never keep the name of
the studio because Magic has more evocative name.

2097
02:06:28.199 --> 02:06:30.039
Yes, Arrowhead, but but I
mean helldivers is. You know,

2098
02:06:30.119 --> 02:06:33.319
it's a four player like a bug, like Starship Troopers, like space shoot

2099
02:06:33.359 --> 02:06:36.439
'em up, Yeah, but top
down. But they've basically mapsed the Magic

2100
02:06:36.600 --> 02:06:40.439
concept into that game on a dpad. You know, they made it work.

2101
02:06:40.479 --> 02:06:42.560
We're gonna come to think of a
Magic I worked on a dpad.

2102
02:06:42.680 --> 02:06:45.800
Yeah, So I don't see why. I'm seriously, all we've seen at

2103
02:06:45.800 --> 02:06:46.960
this point is the trailer for Gauntlet. I think we'll be able to get

2104
02:06:47.119 --> 02:06:50.600
a closer look at it here kind
a thing to see it on Thursday.

2105
02:06:50.760 --> 02:06:54.359
Yeah, so we'll go check it
out. I mean, the trailer didn't

2106
02:06:54.359 --> 02:06:57.079
look like there were a whole lot
of ghosts in it. I didn't see

2107
02:06:57.159 --> 02:07:00.760
death. I didn't see anyone talking
about food and the shoot thereof so or

2108
02:07:00.840 --> 02:07:03.520
of the needing badly of it.
Yeah, I don't know that. To

2109
02:07:03.640 --> 02:07:09.479
me, at some point, for
better or for worse, Gauntlet kind of

2110
02:07:09.520 --> 02:07:11.880
has to have that stuff, and
when it doesn't, like I don't know

2111
02:07:11.960 --> 02:07:14.520
what they're doing anymore. Yeah,
I don't know, magic I had a

2112
02:07:14.560 --> 02:07:17.199
pretty irreverent tone to it. Yeah, I bet there's some stuff like that

2113
02:07:17.359 --> 02:07:19.800
buried in there. Yeah, I
don't know. It's just weird. Like

2114
02:07:19.880 --> 02:07:24.119
I feel like the you know,
I really liked, like when Gauntlet came

2115
02:07:24.159 --> 02:07:28.520
out incredible, you know, it
was just an incredible arcade game. And

2116
02:07:28.720 --> 02:07:30.880
Gauntlet too, I think that,
you know, they made smart changes to

2117
02:07:30.000 --> 02:07:34.319
it, and I feel like every
time they've done Gauntlet since then has just

2118
02:07:34.520 --> 02:07:40.239
been lost. Like that game was
something that was designed to suck quarters away

2119
02:07:40.239 --> 02:07:43.319
from you. In the minute they
took that aspect of it away, it

2120
02:07:43.479 --> 02:07:45.359
was just like I don't know,
like like the what the Gauntlet Legends and

2121
02:07:45.439 --> 02:07:49.319
Dark Legacy, the arcade game,
the last arcade game they did, got

2122
02:07:49.439 --> 02:07:55.399
some of that back because it was
literally an arcade game that was sucking money

2123
02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:58.800
out of you again. But it's
just one of those things that I just

2124
02:07:58.880 --> 02:08:01.720
never felt like they translate it at
it well at home. But I feel

2125
02:08:01.760 --> 02:08:05.239
like the culture's back now with all
the like Rogue Leglis and all that stuff.

2126
02:08:05.239 --> 02:08:07.319
I feel like you can make a
Gauntlet where it's like, dude,

2127
02:08:07.319 --> 02:08:09.960
you get one life, run the
run the Gauntlet going in with four dudes,

2128
02:08:11.000 --> 02:08:13.960
and like it's a you'll start as
soon as you die, I'll start

2129
02:08:13.960 --> 02:08:16.800
over, but from level to level
you'll keep it. I just don't I

2130
02:08:16.800 --> 02:08:18.880
don't think it'll be that kind of
game. I don't think so either.

2131
02:08:20.520 --> 02:08:22.279
I think and I think if you're
naming a game Gauntlet, I think like

2132
02:08:22.359 --> 02:08:28.479
putting that type of like going a
little too roguelike on the on the permanence

2133
02:08:28.479 --> 02:08:31.760
of death and stuff like that,
I think it would be too harsh.

2134
02:08:31.000 --> 02:08:33.560
But like, what like without putting
if you were to play on one quarter,

2135
02:08:33.720 --> 02:08:37.159
right, Yeah, like that's basically
what it was. It's like eight

2136
02:08:37.239 --> 02:08:39.159
hundred health or something. Yeah,
well you can set and you can get

2137
02:08:39.159 --> 02:08:41.800
a little more, you can get
some food. Yeah, but you know

2138
02:08:43.039 --> 02:08:45.840
it was kind of a but that
wasn't the thing. It wasn't you put

2139
02:08:45.880 --> 02:08:48.520
in one quarter. It was you
put in fucking eighty quarters while you were

2140
02:08:48.560 --> 02:08:54.359
standing there is going to mother your
god damn it shit stand here long enough,

2141
02:08:54.359 --> 02:08:58.880
all the fucking walls turn into exits
because fuck it, you lost enough

2142
02:08:58.920 --> 02:09:00.920
health with it just ticking down,
We'll let you go on to the next

2143
02:09:01.000 --> 02:09:05.640
level. Oh that game. The
problem is that you can't now build in

2144
02:09:05.680 --> 02:09:07.119
the monetary risk at home. Unless
you just make this thing free to play,

2145
02:09:09.399 --> 02:09:11.800
solves all problems. What if it
was what if it was free but

2146
02:09:11.920 --> 02:09:16.439
every life cost twenty five cents?
I feel like that's like everyone like jokes

2147
02:09:16.439 --> 02:09:18.960
about that every time any kind of
arcady game goes free to play, and

2148
02:09:20.159 --> 02:09:22.119
no one has really had the guts
to do it because it would probably never

2149
02:09:22.159 --> 02:09:24.239
work. You would work. This
one tried to do that a few years

2150
02:09:24.279 --> 02:09:28.039
ago. There was there's a it
was a bad approach. It was the

2151
02:09:28.079 --> 02:09:31.079
wrong approach. It's gonna be someone
like Microsoft or Sony have to do it

2152
02:09:31.159 --> 02:09:35.960
themselves. But there was like a
middleware company that was supposedly licensed with Sony

2153
02:09:35.119 --> 02:09:39.119
or Microsoft or maybe both to do
just that, to basically like quarter up,

2154
02:09:39.119 --> 02:09:41.399
and they had the back end and
all this stuff. And the thinking

2155
02:09:41.600 --> 02:09:45.079
was, you know, for old
arcade games or whatever, you just do

2156
02:09:45.199 --> 02:09:48.760
that. And I mean game Room
was kind of it was gonna be much

2157
02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:52.560
more could have been. It was
gonna be much more. Like it was

2158
02:09:52.560 --> 02:09:56.399
gonna be outside of the Uh,
like you don't buy points and then all

2159
02:09:56.399 --> 02:09:58.720
I don't have enough points and I
got these five men used to buy more

2160
02:09:58.760 --> 02:10:01.840
points. Yeah, Like there's gonna
be more seamless than that, Right,

2161
02:10:01.880 --> 02:10:05.439
that was the intent. But then
like I, I guess I just want

2162
02:10:05.479 --> 02:10:07.600
awake because no one ever used it
or whatever. But it did seem like

2163
02:10:07.640 --> 02:10:11.760
an interesting idea. I don't feel
like that recreates the whole experience, though,

2164
02:10:11.800 --> 02:10:13.159
you know, like there was there
was there was like a ritual quality

2165
02:10:13.239 --> 02:10:16.119
to fishing another quarter out of your
pocket and like hearing it clinked down the

2166
02:10:16.159 --> 02:10:18.960
coin slot. There's something to do
a start button, you know like that.

2167
02:10:18.960 --> 02:10:22.000
I don't know that that Well,
what if you just you know,

2168
02:10:22.079 --> 02:10:24.359
had a bitcoin wallet and then there
was an animation of a like piece of

2169
02:10:24.399 --> 02:10:30.199
a bitcoin moving across the screen and
disappearing and somehow turning into drugs or whatever.

2170
02:10:30.399 --> 02:10:33.359
She's saying that, like if it
counted down from five before the treasure

2171
02:10:33.359 --> 02:10:35.720
shot opened, be more meaningful somehow. Yeah, That's what I'm saying.

2172
02:10:35.840 --> 02:10:39.199
Oh, I think you're onto something. I do actually wonder though, like

2173
02:10:39.239 --> 02:10:43.279
if Splunky, right, which I
think is the single greatest game, you

2174
02:10:43.359 --> 02:10:46.479
could do that for now, right
if they like this is strictly like a

2175
02:10:46.520 --> 02:10:52.279
mental exercise, but if they launched
with that, so it's free and first

2176
02:10:52.359 --> 02:10:54.199
five times you play it, or
first ten or whatever, it's free and

2177
02:10:54.279 --> 02:10:58.079
it's a quarter after every time,
right, Like, would they have made

2178
02:10:58.119 --> 02:11:01.560
more money or would they've just tanked
and burned? Like because if like,

2179
02:11:03.319 --> 02:11:07.680
I don't think I would stop pumping
quarters into Spilunky anytime soon. But that's

2180
02:11:07.800 --> 02:11:11.000
but that's with the knowledge that you
already have because you have to play it

2181
02:11:11.199 --> 02:11:13.119
unlimited times for free. Yeah,
like how many people, I like,

2182
02:11:13.319 --> 02:11:16.640
I wonder how long it would have
taken for somebody that you actually uncover the

2183
02:11:16.720 --> 02:11:18.640
variety and depth in Spilunky if they
were paying their way to get there.

2184
02:11:18.760 --> 02:11:22.640
Let's assume they executed perfectly and they
ab tested it and they found the exact

2185
02:11:22.760 --> 02:11:26.479
number of right free games to give
away before they started doing a quarter,

2186
02:11:26.680 --> 02:11:28.640
right, But like, let's also
assume it doesn't get cracked by a bunch

2187
02:11:28.640 --> 02:11:31.680
of hackers for free after that,
right, like a stack all these sysmptions

2188
02:11:31.720 --> 02:11:35.000
on the top of each other.
But like I do think, uh,

2189
02:11:37.279 --> 02:11:39.279
I think for some games that could
make tremendous sense, but there's just so

2190
02:11:39.439 --> 02:11:45.520
few that are built to take advantage
of that naturally, because like you think,

2191
02:11:45.760 --> 02:11:48.239
it's like any free to play game
you like, you want, you

2192
02:11:48.319 --> 02:11:52.840
have to believe it's fair and maybe
you can't suspend a belief that it's fair,

2193
02:11:52.920 --> 02:11:54.279
just believe that it's fair. The
whole thing comes in raveled and you

2194
02:11:54.359 --> 02:11:58.520
lose all interest, right, and
it's a remarkably hard problem, and you

2195
02:11:58.640 --> 02:12:01.680
end up with situation too where like, you know, would you then not

2196
02:12:01.880 --> 02:12:05.359
allow people to just buy it?
Right? You know? And and at

2197
02:12:05.399 --> 02:12:09.399
what point is I mean, obviously
that's the maximum price someone would ever pay.

2198
02:12:09.039 --> 02:12:11.319
Yeah, And if you tried to
do a free to play game where

2199
02:12:11.359 --> 02:12:15.640
the biggest thing you could buy was
a quarter, like every suit in the

2200
02:12:15.680 --> 02:12:18.840
world would tell you're being idiot.
You need to guz the whales need something.

2201
02:12:20.039 --> 02:12:22.079
You know, best value is you
know you It's just like it's just

2202
02:12:22.159 --> 02:12:24.399
like the pinball machines. If you
put in the Susan b anthony, it

2203
02:12:24.399 --> 02:12:28.119
would give you five games instead of
full exactly. Yeah, And so it's

2204
02:12:28.560 --> 02:12:30.359
you know, this is largely it
was like I said, it will always

2205
02:12:30.359 --> 02:12:31.840
be a mental exercise. I don't
think this is something that will ever happen,

2206
02:12:33.000 --> 02:12:37.279
but I find myself thinking about that
a lot, and like and what

2207
02:12:37.399 --> 02:12:41.439
games would have worked for and there's
not many, but yeah, yeah,

2208
02:12:41.039 --> 02:12:43.720
yeah, I think Spunky would be
more devious if they just put it on

2209
02:12:43.800 --> 02:12:48.359
a timer. It's just like,
dude, you get five minutes and then

2210
02:12:48.399 --> 02:12:50.600
the curtains close and I put another
quarter and you want to see it straight

2211
02:12:50.680 --> 02:12:54.880
up peep show, like literally the
curtain closest. Man. This is a

2212
02:12:54.000 --> 02:12:58.000
really good run. It's a really
good run. It just stinks in here.

2213
02:12:58.680 --> 02:13:01.199
I believe I can't put in another
quarter. It's just like when the

2214
02:13:01.239 --> 02:13:05.039
time expires, the ghost appears.
I was like, you want the ghost

2215
02:13:05.079 --> 02:13:07.840
goes literally be the ghost off.
Yeah, just got his hand out,

2216
02:13:07.920 --> 02:13:13.800
Like, come on, we need
hardware for this, like actually the act

2217
02:13:13.840 --> 02:13:16.439
of putting a quarter in a box
like a lock box that gets mounted into

2218
02:13:16.479 --> 02:13:22.560
the home connection and then a man
has to come once a week to empty

2219
02:13:22.600 --> 02:13:28.520
your coin box. Yeah uh so, yeah, gone, it'll be out

2220
02:13:28.560 --> 02:13:31.000
this summer. That's it. It's
a super weird announcement that like I can't

2221
02:13:31.039 --> 02:13:35.079
think of a team other than the
Magic a team or you know, the

2222
02:13:35.520 --> 02:13:39.800
Arrowhead games, like they seem like
the perfect gauntlet people really seriously or for

2223
02:13:39.880 --> 02:13:43.119
that sort of thing like they they've
been making kind of it. I feel

2224
02:13:43.119 --> 02:13:45.760
like Magic in a lot of ways
was kind of a new vot. I

2225
02:13:45.800 --> 02:13:48.840
didn't know they were making and when
you guys said it, it's like,

2226
02:13:48.880 --> 02:13:50.840
oh, yeah, that makes right. Of course, why wouldn't they do

2227
02:13:50.920 --> 02:13:56.920
that? Will there be a Vietnam
level? Uh? Four characters which you

2228
02:13:56.960 --> 02:14:01.800
know, the same four characters or
they say Warrior Valkyrie, they don't say,

2229
02:14:01.840 --> 02:14:09.119
you know, Questore Fyra and Hearthstone
is out like done, Like it's

2230
02:14:09.199 --> 02:14:13.439
out. It's not in beta.
It's out, o heart, anybody can

2231
02:14:13.840 --> 02:14:16.800
Stone. Anyone could download it for
a while. They were in open beta

2232
02:14:16.880 --> 02:14:20.520
for a chunk of time, which
changed. It's not in beta anymore.

2233
02:14:22.800 --> 02:14:26.520
As of the eleventh it is out. It's no longer unfinished. That's right,

2234
02:14:26.760 --> 02:14:30.000
that game is finished, so we
should go do quick look of it.

2235
02:14:30.119 --> 02:14:33.720
What did they did they do for
people who put money in? Nothing

2236
02:14:33.000 --> 02:14:35.800
like, Yeah, I think they
stuff I think from open beta. Like

2237
02:14:37.239 --> 02:14:39.319
at one point they were resetting it
was it was a case where like if

2238
02:14:39.319 --> 02:14:43.279
if they had to make changes that
impacted the economy, they would turn your

2239
02:14:43.319 --> 02:14:46.960
cards back into packs or back into
in game credit that you would spend on

2240
02:14:48.039 --> 02:14:52.640
packs or whatever material. Yeah,
yeah, but they kept it. But

2241
02:14:52.760 --> 02:14:54.920
at some point they got to a
point we're like, we're not wiping packs

2242
02:14:54.960 --> 02:14:56.399
and we're not wiping cards anymore.
From here on out, what you get

2243
02:14:56.479 --> 02:15:00.159
is what you got, so they
didn't have to reset it at launch to

2244
02:15:00.760 --> 02:15:05.439
do anything like that. I played
like through most of the tutorial. I

2245
02:15:05.520 --> 02:15:07.960
don't know. I don't know if
I'll play anymore. Yea, it is

2246
02:15:09.079 --> 02:15:11.840
so not the sort of game that
I am likely to play. I didn't

2247
02:15:11.840 --> 02:15:15.439
get through the tutorial either. It's
just that kind of game doesn't do much

2248
02:15:15.479 --> 02:15:18.399
for me. Yeah, is that
only? Is that on iPad? I

2249
02:15:18.520 --> 02:15:22.239
know, not not yet, it's
uh just PC or Yeah. I wonder

2250
02:15:22.399 --> 02:15:24.760
what they're holding off on, because
I mean the interface on what you saw

2251
02:15:24.920 --> 02:15:26.960
the PC I think you were in
the quickly Yeah, like it looks even

2252
02:15:28.039 --> 02:15:31.479
the PC version practically is a touch
interface, you know, like the even

2253
02:15:31.520 --> 02:15:33.720
the art style, you know,
it looks like what you would expect an

2254
02:15:33.720 --> 02:15:35.600
iPad game to look like it like
it is right there. I'm not sure

2255
02:15:35.640 --> 02:15:39.600
what they're waiting on. Maybe maybe
this, you know, maybe the PC

2256
02:15:39.760 --> 02:15:43.680
version to be quote unquote out.
Yeah, get out there, kick tires

2257
02:15:43.720 --> 02:15:46.840
for a while, make sure it
all works works, and go from there.

2258
02:15:46.920 --> 02:15:50.119
I forgot to mention, you know, I start playing that here as

2259
02:15:50.199 --> 02:15:54.560
the Storm alpha. Speaking of free
to play Blizzard Games last week. It's

2260
02:15:54.600 --> 02:15:58.079
pretty fun. Yeah, it's uh, it's such a different beast from I

2261
02:15:58.119 --> 02:16:01.239
know. I was watching you play
the first go through some of the tutorial

2262
02:16:01.279 --> 02:16:03.159
in the first game, and you're
just like, this is bullshit. I

2263
02:16:03.399 --> 02:16:05.840
it was. I mean, it
doesn't make the greatest first impression if you're

2264
02:16:05.840 --> 02:16:09.319
playing one of those other games,
because it's so slow, yeah, by

2265
02:16:09.359 --> 02:16:11.039
comparison, and it feels so kind
of limited in a lot of ways.

2266
02:16:11.079 --> 02:16:13.640
But that's kind of ultimately what makes
it different, you know, is that

2267
02:16:15.319 --> 02:16:18.199
the focus of it is very different. It's a lot more about completing team

2268
02:16:18.239 --> 02:16:20.640
objectives. You know, they've got
different maps and stuff like. It's not

2269
02:16:22.039 --> 02:16:26.079
where does the money come in?
What do you buy? It is league

2270
02:16:26.119 --> 02:16:28.479
style in that there is a subset
of free characters at all times, but

2271
02:16:28.800 --> 02:16:31.520
which ones are free rotates. Ye, So yeah, you pay for a

2272
02:16:31.559 --> 02:16:35.040
character if you want it to be
free all the time. And it's kind

2273
02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:39.280
of crazy that it's not free.
You pay, you bought that character available

2274
02:16:39.319 --> 02:16:45.799
available, sorry whatever. Some characters
already cost more money than others, which

2275
02:16:46.000 --> 02:16:48.040
immediately makes you kind of raise your
eyebrow. Presumably it's just like, oh,

2276
02:16:48.120 --> 02:16:52.639
people like eldince so they'll pay more
for him and not Oh this character

2277
02:16:52.760 --> 02:16:56.280
is more powerful than these others that
that always seems weird. I hope the

2278
02:16:56.360 --> 02:16:58.879
Marvel Heroes does a lot of that
stuff where it was like costumes for the

2279
02:17:00.079 --> 02:17:03.680
more popular characters. Ay, they're
just way more costumes for you know,

2280
02:17:03.799 --> 02:17:07.159
iron Man than there are for I
don't know, Black Widow or League is

2281
02:17:07.200 --> 02:17:09.639
like that would League the heroes that
don't all cost the same thing? Yeah,

2282
02:17:09.879 --> 02:17:13.120
I mean I don't think anyone.
You know, that's not a point

2283
02:17:13.159 --> 02:17:16.719
of attention for most people. Yeah, as long as they're a problems with

2284
02:17:16.760 --> 02:17:18.799
the balance. You know, you
were playing you were were you playing League

2285
02:17:18.799 --> 02:17:22.159
for a while? Yeah? I
really I really like League? Yeah yeah,

2286
02:17:22.000 --> 02:17:24.280
what do you What do you like
about it? What keeps you coming

2287
02:17:24.319 --> 02:17:28.840
back? That style of game?
You know, it's it's first and foremost,

2288
02:17:28.920 --> 02:17:33.520
it's a social thing. And so
I think we might we could be

2289
02:17:33.559 --> 02:17:37.840
transitioning in titan Fall, because we
gave titan Fall a test group run on

2290
02:17:37.000 --> 02:17:41.280
Saturday and that was so fun.
But yeah, primarily it's like, hey,

2291
02:17:43.120 --> 02:17:45.639
all of us, we're all like
crazy busy, right, but it's

2292
02:17:45.680 --> 02:17:48.399
like it breaks for an hour and
have some fun together. Okay, let's

2293
02:17:48.399 --> 02:17:50.959
do it. Let's see then,
Like it isn't kind of in a weird

2294
02:17:50.079 --> 02:17:52.680
and like I don't want to say
a pathetic way, but like it is

2295
02:17:52.760 --> 02:17:56.479
sort of a way to hang out
with your buddies, you know, like

2296
02:17:56.520 --> 02:17:58.600
because as you can't get out of
the house anymore. Yeah, because it's

2297
02:17:58.600 --> 02:18:00.840
like we know, the married kids, got your job, you got all

2298
02:18:00.840 --> 02:18:03.159
this ship, and it's like it's
impossible to do anything fun. But because

2299
02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:05.879
the Internet now, it's like,
okay, we can at least kind of

2300
02:18:05.920 --> 02:18:07.799
be connected together. And uh,
you know, we're never gonna be any

2301
02:18:07.840 --> 02:18:11.040
good. We'll never be competitive,
Like we play you know, a couple

2302
02:18:11.120 --> 02:18:13.479
times a month or whatever, but
it's just when we're in there, we're

2303
02:18:13.479 --> 02:18:16.920
having fun. We're yelling at each
other. You know, no one takes

2304
02:18:16.959 --> 02:18:20.040
it too seriously, which is good. So it could be Doda, it

2305
02:18:20.079 --> 02:18:24.399
could be any game, but right
now it's League for that, you know.

2306
02:18:24.000 --> 02:18:26.360
But what do I like it?
You know, I couldn't say like

2307
02:18:28.200 --> 02:18:30.920
when I like League to Doda.
I've literally never even seen Doda. Like

2308
02:18:30.959 --> 02:18:33.719
I watched Doda at the Internationals.
How do you call it? Yeah,

2309
02:18:33.840 --> 02:18:35.559
Like I watched that and it's like, oh that this looks similar. I

2310
02:18:37.479 --> 02:18:39.639
I don't think strong pains on one
game or the other, but we have

2311
02:18:39.719 --> 02:18:41.959
fun with league. I'm a jungler, Yeah you are. I can tell

2312
02:18:43.120 --> 02:18:46.079
by looking at you jungle. You
look like your jungle. I'm jungling.

2313
02:18:46.120 --> 02:18:48.360
I'm I got my loops down.
Yeah, I'm the best jungle. I'm

2314
02:18:48.360 --> 02:18:54.399
the best jungler. So that's all
you do. That's interesting like that.

2315
02:18:54.600 --> 02:18:58.319
You see that in DODA sometimes but
not that often, where people dedicate themselves

2316
02:18:58.399 --> 02:19:00.920
to like one role and just really
nail well. It's because, like I

2317
02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:03.360
think it's part of it is because
I'm the worst person on the team,

2318
02:19:05.200 --> 02:19:07.600
and so if we are gonna be
like, I'm never gonna play mid,

2319
02:19:07.040 --> 02:19:09.280
like if we have any chance,
like the group, the five people we

2320
02:19:09.440 --> 02:19:13.840
have are not good and I'm the
worst, and so if we have any

2321
02:19:13.920 --> 02:19:16.840
chance to do okay, it's like
Kaiser's got to be mid. You know

2322
02:19:16.360 --> 02:19:22.319
ramone and Kurt'll be low and you
know Sasnowski will be high and I'll jungle,

2323
02:19:22.559 --> 02:19:24.000
and that's the best chance we have. And it's more like that's the

2324
02:19:24.319 --> 02:19:28.200
that's the extent of the thought we
put into it. So and also when

2325
02:19:28.239 --> 02:19:31.440
we started playing, it was like
season three when we started playing, and

2326
02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:35.360
one of the junglers I already bought
because he was cool looking. He's a

2327
02:19:35.399 --> 02:19:39.399
big bear. Oh yeah. One
day me Adam and John Vaniaki John Vanaki

2328
02:19:39.479 --> 02:19:43.680
may have heard of him, Jonathan, we decided we're all gonna be bears,

2329
02:19:45.239 --> 02:19:46.920
and we're gonna go into games and
role play as bears with two other

2330
02:19:48.040 --> 02:19:50.239
teammates who've never met us before.
So we all bought, Like Adam bought

2331
02:19:50.319 --> 02:19:54.120
Annie, who he is, the
big teddy bear that goes. I was

2332
02:19:54.200 --> 02:19:56.200
the the jungle bear. I remember
his name, like Voldemort, it's not

2333
02:19:56.319 --> 02:20:01.760
Voltimorta' and then there's one with then
Johnny bought one, and so we're in

2334
02:20:01.920 --> 02:20:07.200
chat. It's like I'm a bear
and the other two people had no fun

2335
02:20:07.280 --> 02:20:09.319
clue what was happening. They were
not happy. But we did that,

2336
02:20:09.440 --> 02:20:13.920
like we did that basically every day
for a week because it was so funny.

2337
02:20:13.959 --> 02:20:16.239
They never did it again. Yeah, it was pretty get out of

2338
02:20:16.280 --> 02:20:18.000
your system. And so that's why
I jungle because the guy I bought into

2339
02:20:18.040 --> 02:20:22.680
being a good jungler. So a
lot of deep thought into that. Yeah,

2340
02:20:22.120 --> 02:20:28.319
absolutely, But bottom line, I'm
a jungler. Keep that in mind

2341
02:20:28.399 --> 02:20:31.360
I jungle, Yeah, known to
be jungling. My loops are tight,

2342
02:20:33.399 --> 02:20:39.520
tight jungle loops. Is there is
there hot jungling in Heroes of the Swarm?

2343
02:20:39.680 --> 02:20:45.280
Not really, Chrispy said he's kind
of found a way to jungle a

2344
02:20:45.319 --> 02:20:46.799
little bit on certain maps, but
it's really not that kind of game.

2345
02:20:46.799 --> 02:20:50.440
I mean, like, you know, you don't even gain individual experience on

2346
02:20:50.479 --> 02:20:52.719
your characters, you know, it's
just the whole team is getting experienced.

2347
02:20:52.840 --> 02:20:58.600
Yeah, hey, what's the jungling? Is that when you're going between lanes?

2348
02:20:58.000 --> 02:21:01.360
Yeah it's the area Okay, it's
the forest area. Yeah, I

2349
02:21:01.479 --> 02:21:07.479
got it. Yeah, it's because
you don't want to know, you guys

2350
02:21:07.520 --> 02:21:09.920
deep in the lingo. Yeah,
I just yeah, I just wanted to

2351
02:21:09.840 --> 02:21:16.479
man. Jungler still the best game
available on the Microsoft Game Room. Sure

2352
02:21:16.559 --> 02:21:20.159
ahead of its time apparently, Yeah, totally, everyone's into Yeah, everyone

2353
02:21:20.280 --> 02:21:22.840
learned so much from it now that
it's just this huge thing. I bet

2354
02:21:22.920 --> 02:21:24.559
this game will do really, like
super well for them, Yeah, I

2355
02:21:24.639 --> 02:21:28.000
bet. You know, it's pretty
polished. Do you think it'll kind of

2356
02:21:28.040 --> 02:21:33.000
bring back them in an esports way
that StarCraft maybe doesn't have the clout anymore.

2357
02:21:33.040 --> 02:21:35.559
I mean, it's It's really hard
to say with the thing only having

2358
02:21:35.600 --> 02:21:37.959
been out a few days, and
I'm not the best guy to analyze it

2359
02:21:37.399 --> 02:21:41.680
regardless, but it doesn't seem like
the kind of game where the swings can

2360
02:21:41.760 --> 02:21:45.520
be as wild. Okay, I've
never seen I've only played a week,

2361
02:21:45.559 --> 02:21:48.559
maybe a dozen games or something,
but I never saw a game where one

2362
02:21:48.600 --> 02:21:52.280
team like dramatically out leveled the other
one and it got into that kind of

2363
02:21:52.280 --> 02:21:54.319
scenario where it's just a stamp like
that. So I don't know if the

2364
02:21:54.319 --> 02:21:58.000
potential for comebacks is there and like
kind of a drama that you look for

2365
02:21:58.200 --> 02:22:01.559
in a good match of like StarCraft
or something like that, But I don't

2366
02:22:01.559 --> 02:22:03.639
know. Who know, who knows. My favorite part of that game is

2367
02:22:03.680 --> 02:22:09.840
watching the intro where they're recruiting heroes
from across the Blizzard universe. Is it

2368
02:22:09.920 --> 02:22:13.280
just a fucking intro to Quake three? Exactly? But the best part is

2369
02:22:13.399 --> 02:22:18.000
you know they're like across the universe. We're recruiting all these heroes from like

2370
02:22:18.200 --> 02:22:22.680
like cameras, like flying through space
with planets whizzing by. It's like and

2371
02:22:22.799 --> 02:22:28.799
like Sanctuary is it all the planets
from rock and roll Racing? Because they're

2372
02:22:28.840 --> 02:22:33.239
only three fucking properties. So three
there's rock and roll racing, there's black

2373
02:22:33.600 --> 02:22:35.719
they don't get blackthorn in there.
Then fuck that game. Like three planets

2374
02:22:35.719 --> 02:22:39.040
go by, and then it's like, you know, is this whole his

2375
02:22:39.120 --> 02:22:41.879
whole ability? It is like you
push one to shoot shotgun, push two

2376
02:22:43.000 --> 02:22:46.040
to shoot shot behind you. Fuck, I'd pay eight bucks for that character.

2377
02:22:46.280 --> 02:22:50.920
I don't even want to play that
game. Nine. Yeah, this

2378
02:22:52.000 --> 02:22:54.440
is like we're all right, you
have three worlds. I forgot it.

2379
02:22:54.520 --> 02:22:58.520
Actually, it actually starts taking on
a little bit of like a Smash Brothers

2380
02:22:58.600 --> 02:23:01.399
feel when you're going through all those
characters. Yeah, like one of the

2381
02:23:01.479 --> 02:23:03.559
characters is a siege take, Okay, just a straight up siege take.

2382
02:23:03.799 --> 02:23:07.120
And is it like there's not like
a dude in it? I mean the

2383
02:23:07.200 --> 02:23:09.680
problem is I mean I think the
name of the unit is called Sergeant Hammer,

2384
02:23:09.799 --> 02:23:13.360
so I was probably referring to whoever's
in there. I just like to

2385
02:23:13.399 --> 02:23:18.799
think of it as like an empty
scent siege take. Ye, I am

2386
02:23:18.879 --> 02:23:20.479
the tank. And then Diabblo rides
on a pony. Yeah, and then

2387
02:23:20.520 --> 02:23:24.639
Diabblo gets on a horse and rides
around. Fuck that it's weird. Yeah,

2388
02:23:24.680 --> 02:23:28.520
No, that's great, that's great. Sure, make a siege tank,

2389
02:23:28.639 --> 02:23:31.120
ride on a horse, make a
big dump. God, I don't

2390
02:23:31.120 --> 02:23:35.239
know, like like probably not.
What's the mount for the mount? M

2391
02:23:35.399 --> 02:23:37.280
hmm. I know. So there's
one guy who doesn't get on a mount

2392
02:23:37.319 --> 02:23:41.120
because he's kind of on it all
the time. Yeah, Well he's don't

2393
02:23:41.120 --> 02:23:43.680
in Griffin and he never gets off
of it. Okay, so siege Chank

2394
02:23:43.680 --> 02:23:46.639
probably doesn't get on it. Yeah, the Sea Chank probably just like that,

2395
02:23:46.760 --> 02:23:50.959
like siege mode, and well it's
not supposed to if they're remaining lore

2396
02:23:52.000 --> 02:23:54.360
appropriate, it's not supposed to be
able to move faults in siege mode,

2397
02:23:54.559 --> 02:23:56.680
right, right. I remember Dabblo
on the horse at the end of two.

2398
02:23:56.360 --> 02:24:01.920
Yeah, more appropriate? Yeah,
the right. Somebody forget who it

2399
02:24:01.040 --> 02:24:05.000
was. Somebody somebody reminded me while
we were playing that they went with Diablo

2400
02:24:05.079 --> 02:24:09.959
two Diablo and not female Diablo three
Diablo. They know where they're character.

2401
02:24:09.159 --> 02:24:13.440
Yeah, probably there's no wait though, there's an ald skin though for it,

2402
02:24:13.559 --> 02:24:16.319
right, Like everybody's got all skin. Yeah, and it's they're super

2403
02:24:16.399 --> 02:24:20.319
weird and like completely fiction breaking and
like more problematically, they kind of make

2404
02:24:20.360 --> 02:24:24.760
it harder to identify who the hero
is because yeah, like the two alternate

2405
02:24:24.840 --> 02:24:28.079
Diablo skins are one of them turns
them green and puts like a Godzilla head

2406
02:24:28.079 --> 02:24:30.239
on him. Okay, the other
one turns the blue and makes him a

2407
02:24:30.280 --> 02:24:33.840
merlock and like a certain point if
you're not if you're new to the game,

2408
02:24:33.600 --> 02:24:35.959
well yeah, but you could say
the exact same thing about Doda and

2409
02:24:35.959 --> 02:24:39.760
all its cosmetic shit. But it
is nowhere near that dramatic, like not

2410
02:24:39.920 --> 02:24:43.159
even close. Like to completely change
a character's color palette head to toe like

2411
02:24:43.239 --> 02:24:46.200
that is is kind of crazy.
But again, like this game is pretty

2412
02:24:46.239 --> 02:24:50.479
forgiving compared to to something like Doda, So I don't know, it doesn't

2413
02:24:50.479 --> 02:24:54.959
seem to be taking taking itself super
seriously. Huh. Harder to swarm heroes

2414
02:24:56.000 --> 02:24:58.000
of it? Yeah, I don't
even know what to make of the fact

2415
02:24:58.079 --> 02:25:01.479
that it's like, do they just
they just give up on StarCraft because they

2416
02:25:01.520 --> 02:25:05.000
just went and repurposed that same acronym
for another game. Maybe it's something like

2417
02:25:05.120 --> 02:25:09.760
weird Nintendo deal, that's weird.
Yeah, they didn't even notice that the

2418
02:25:09.840 --> 02:25:13.639
both hots. What if every game
they release from here on out just abbreviates

2419
02:25:13.719 --> 02:25:22.399
to hots huh? Think about it? Yea heart stone Heart of the Stone.

2420
02:25:24.399 --> 02:25:28.520
There you go, holy shit robbing
something here. Yeah, I'm gonna

2421
02:25:28.520 --> 02:25:33.280
write that down, mail it to
myself. I now own this. All

2422
02:25:33.399 --> 02:25:35.680
right. That's it for news.
Actually some news broke. It's kind of

2423
02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:39.079
a bum or Patrick had to leave. I'm sure he would have been interested

2424
02:25:39.120 --> 02:25:41.639
in this. Was he involved in
the news. Yes, he brought it

2425
02:25:41.680 --> 02:25:45.639
about. No, Mark Whitten has
left Microsoft. Wow, Yeah, like

2426
02:25:45.760 --> 02:25:48.920
happened like he just announced it on
Twitter like twenty thirty minutes ago. Yeah.

2427
02:25:50.520 --> 02:25:54.079
Uh he what was his what was
his role exactly? So No,

2428
02:25:54.319 --> 02:25:58.239
he was like way up there.
Yeah, like I don't know what's up

2429
02:25:58.280 --> 02:26:01.120
with you know, the kind of
ongoing executive full at Microsoft. I think

2430
02:26:01.120 --> 02:26:03.479
you know there were people above him
the like sort of ran not whatever it

2431
02:26:03.600 --> 02:26:07.520
is entertainment or devices or whatever the
division is. But like, did he

2432
02:26:07.639 --> 02:26:11.840
demo the smart class stuff at E
three? Was that Witten? He didn't

2433
02:26:11.879 --> 02:26:13.639
want of them? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, don't know if he don't

2434
02:26:13.639 --> 02:26:15.920
know if he was definitely one of
their on stage, it's definitely one of

2435
02:26:15.959 --> 02:26:18.000
their. Hid he was people guys, he was a VP over there.

2436
02:26:18.200 --> 02:26:22.680
He was like the one guy product
Like he's the one guy that was on

2437
02:26:22.760 --> 02:26:26.120
stage it didn't look like you should
be on stage. He's like a regular

2438
02:26:26.200 --> 02:26:31.000
guy. It's a product officer.
Yeah, so he's gone weird. Yeah,

2439
02:26:31.360 --> 02:26:35.319
maybe Jack Trenton's going it's just like
a week after Trenton. You know

2440
02:26:35.239 --> 02:26:41.040
who was this? Sons? And
how do I buy it? Played music

2441
02:26:41.120 --> 02:26:43.840
anywhere in your house? Is that
what it is? I think? Yeah,

2442
02:26:43.000 --> 02:26:48.200
yeah, it's it's like a it's
an audio speaker. We make up

2443
02:26:48.280 --> 02:26:50.840
something else. Okay, they're going
to the Okay, how about this.

2444
02:26:50.920 --> 02:26:54.360
They're releasing a new video game console. They've decided that. You know,

2445
02:26:54.440 --> 02:26:58.840
they've they've mastered the streaming audio from
a computer to speaker, set up up

2446
02:27:00.040 --> 02:27:01.239
part of it, and now they're
gonna do it for video games. They

2447
02:27:01.280 --> 02:27:05.479
need Mark Whitton, they need Jack
Trenton, they need Amy heading exclusive news,

2448
02:27:05.479 --> 02:27:09.680
exclusive news breaking, and they're gonna
you're gonna fight Tracula of it.

2449
02:27:09.680 --> 02:27:13.319
And then yeah, you're gonna fight
Tracula. She is making his actually exclusive

2450
02:27:13.440 --> 02:27:16.799
mummy wearing a cape. And then
when he opens the cape, three strips

2451
02:27:16.879 --> 02:27:20.120
of mummy rap fly out. That's
amazing design. You like it? Yeah,

2452
02:27:20.120 --> 02:27:24.319
it's really mummies and capes. It's
my fucking hot shit cape mummy,

2453
02:27:24.360 --> 02:27:28.079
And you're gonna be able to play
this on any bookshelf in your home because

2454
02:27:28.719 --> 02:27:31.520
streamed all of them. Wow,
you can read your audio books there as

2455
02:27:31.559 --> 02:27:37.479
well. God damn it, there's
probably no story here, you know,

2456
02:27:37.680 --> 02:27:41.520
I was I was reading, you
know. Just like Trenton launched four PlayStations,

2457
02:27:41.600 --> 02:27:43.840
this guy launched three xboxes. You
know. Yeah, it's probably probably

2458
02:27:43.879 --> 02:27:46.559
just like, all right, the
work is done on this thing. It's

2459
02:27:46.600 --> 02:27:48.559
time to move on. Yeah,
at some point you're like, maybe I

2460
02:27:48.600 --> 02:27:50.920
should do something else for my life, or you know, the corporate structure

2461
02:27:50.920 --> 02:27:54.079
here is such that I'm not going
to advance anytime soon, and now I

2462
02:27:54.120 --> 02:28:00.600
want to go to some who knows
who knows? Uh MA always seem like

2463
02:28:00.639 --> 02:28:03.399
solid, dude. I don't know. I never I'd talked to him a

2464
02:28:03.440 --> 02:28:05.840
couple times briefly, but I always
always seemed like I always seemed like you

2465
02:28:07.000 --> 02:28:09.479
genuinely cared about what they were doing. Yeah, well with that, why

2466
02:28:09.520 --> 02:28:13.639
don't we get into emails. Emails
BombCast at giant bomb dot com is the

2467
02:28:13.680 --> 02:28:20.680
email address. Emails have gone dark. They have gone It has been a

2468
02:28:20.840 --> 02:28:26.840
rough month in the world of email. To this podcast, there's one hundred

2469
02:28:26.879 --> 02:28:31.360
more of there was three hundred more
emails that are like these. This is

2470
02:28:31.399 --> 02:28:35.559
just a sampling of the topics,
and it's it's all, it's all fucking

2471
02:28:35.840 --> 02:28:39.600
In a normal week, how many
emails do you get for the cast,

2472
02:28:39.000 --> 02:28:45.280
Uh, somewhere around two hundred ish, So this has been three hundred this

2473
02:28:45.399 --> 02:28:48.399
week. I don't know, just
on those topics bikes, No, just

2474
02:28:48.520 --> 02:28:52.600
on the topics, these specific topics. So some of these I think may

2475
02:28:52.719 --> 02:28:58.440
close out some of these topics.
I don't know. Let's start with something

2476
02:28:58.440 --> 02:29:03.159
about video games, and an oonymous
game developer who would certainly know wrote in

2477
02:29:03.239 --> 02:29:05.280
to say Fortnite is a fucking game
and not a tech demo like that guy

2478
02:29:05.360 --> 02:29:09.120
last week's said you'll see soon enough. All right, Okay, do you

2479
02:29:09.239 --> 02:29:16.479
know some beefs and starting. Yeah, one beef closes, another beef opens.

2480
02:29:16.760 --> 02:29:20.120
Yes, I wonder if I wonder
if soon enough means a GDC A

2481
02:29:20.159 --> 02:29:24.520
weird not a news podcast. I
don't know. Take that as an email.

2482
02:29:24.879 --> 02:29:30.360
Yeah, that story is now running. A Fortnite coming out GDC,

2483
02:29:30.920 --> 02:29:37.159
GDC Beta launching at g DC exclusively
SteamOS playing. I don't don't know if

2484
02:29:37.159 --> 02:29:39.399
you can speak to this next twelve
like it was always I don't know if

2485
02:29:39.440 --> 02:29:41.200
this was just like the understanding or
if this is actually in the contracts,

2486
02:29:41.280 --> 02:29:46.680
but like the thought about Unreal engines
was nobody else was allowed to ship on

2487
02:29:46.799 --> 02:29:50.399
Real games until Epic had shipped their
first game on the engine. That is

2488
02:29:50.479 --> 02:29:54.040
that true? Or is that like
apocrypha so every contracts different. Yeah,

2489
02:29:54.000 --> 02:29:58.920
I think that's not true. Okay, I think that's really good advice.

2490
02:29:58.079 --> 02:30:01.239
Yeah, because it isn't that.
That's how it was for three, right,

2491
02:30:01.360 --> 02:30:03.280
like years and years was the first
Unreal three game, right, yeah,

2492
02:30:03.319 --> 02:30:07.200
and the and like one of the
reasons we struggled with Stranglehold so much

2493
02:30:07.440 --> 02:30:11.520
is because like Stranglehold and Turak came
out like within a week of each other,

2494
02:30:11.959 --> 02:30:15.440
and those are the first PS three
games that launched on U E three,

2495
02:30:16.040 --> 02:30:18.040
and like Epic hadn't like finished all
their stuff for it yet, and

2496
02:30:18.159 --> 02:30:22.520
so like getting that done alongside them
wasn't impossible. But then it meant,

2497
02:30:24.200 --> 02:30:26.760
now all the other cool stuff they're
going to keep doing on the PS three,

2498
02:30:26.120 --> 02:30:30.280
it's almost impossible to grab it because
you've branched and diverse at this point,

2499
02:30:30.319 --> 02:30:31.840
So it's more of a necessity than
like a leal or like yeah,

2500
02:30:31.920 --> 02:30:35.879
no, it's it's it's it's best
practices and you should really like one of

2501
02:30:35.920 --> 02:30:37.040
the things we do a lot of, like U E. Three consulting with

2502
02:30:37.120 --> 02:30:41.680
people, and basically one of the
things I always tell anybody when they're if.

2503
02:30:41.959 --> 02:30:45.680
We rarely get brought in the beginning, but if we if when that

2504
02:30:45.760 --> 02:30:48.040
does happen, when I tell people
it's like, listen, look at the

2505
02:30:48.120 --> 02:30:50.959
last couple of games Epic shipped.
Use every middleware as they used it,

2506
02:30:52.399 --> 02:30:54.719
and you will probably be fine.
If you do not use it in the

2507
02:30:54.799 --> 02:30:58.360
same way they used it, expect
you will need to work on that part

2508
02:30:58.399 --> 02:31:01.079
of the game in a bit.
It's like, you know, it's like,

2509
02:31:01.319 --> 02:31:03.520
no, there's no there's no free
lunches, right, And I don't

2510
02:31:03.559 --> 02:31:05.639
think that's like, I think it's
a reasonable expectation. But for whatever reason,

2511
02:31:05.680 --> 02:31:09.639
people are like, Okay, we
don't need engine programmers now, you

2512
02:31:09.680 --> 02:31:11.879
know, no, you still need
to Every game is different, everything has

2513
02:31:11.879 --> 02:31:13.879
its own requirements make games at all. That sounded like walking a tight rope.

2514
02:31:15.719 --> 02:31:18.920
Uh, well, it's it's like
it's one inch to the left of

2515
02:31:18.959 --> 02:31:22.200
the right, You're fucked. It's
not that it's it's really easy to get

2516
02:31:22.200 --> 02:31:28.399
to spend money on dumb stuff,
and I kind of obsess over, uh

2517
02:31:28.079 --> 02:31:31.760
spending money on things that give really
good value, you know, like like

2518
02:31:31.840 --> 02:31:35.799
there's some people out there who spend
like you know, like, uh,

2519
02:31:35.920 --> 02:31:37.520
spend money on things like Nope,
this one part has to be like this

2520
02:31:37.639 --> 02:31:41.840
no matter what, because it's my
vision, Like I'm not that's not me,

2521
02:31:41.319 --> 02:31:46.760
Like I'm I'm always value focused on
this stuff. And that's why if

2522
02:31:46.760 --> 02:31:48.479
it sounds like yeah, I think, I think you can do that,

2523
02:31:48.680 --> 02:31:52.959
you can do other things like you
do uh real type strategy game and Unreal

2524
02:31:54.040 --> 02:31:56.639
three, but you know you're gonna
have to work for it, and uh,

2525
02:31:58.479 --> 02:32:01.440
it's probably not the best use of
time of money. And wasn't it

2526
02:32:01.520 --> 02:32:05.680
like a at the time, like
a kind of a crazy feat that the

2527
02:32:05.760 --> 02:32:09.920
Mortal Kombat team got UE three running
at sixty frames a second. Yeah,

2528
02:32:11.000 --> 02:32:15.639
that was a lot of work by
a couple of people like Greenberg and the

2529
02:32:15.719 --> 02:32:20.280
tech team there, And it was
because you know, like it's set up

2530
02:32:20.319 --> 02:32:24.920
to do they made a bunch of
fundamental sumptions about how lighting would work,

2531
02:32:24.479 --> 02:32:30.159
and there was just so much sunk
cost into every rendering frame just on we're

2532
02:32:30.159 --> 02:32:33.319
going to do all these lighting calculations
whether there's lights on or not, or

2533
02:32:33.360 --> 02:32:35.719
this we're using this thing or not, and just getting that sunk cost removed,

2534
02:32:35.840 --> 02:32:37.639
like there's like I don't want to
put a number on it, but

2535
02:32:37.680 --> 02:32:41.159
it was a pretty big number and
getting that removed so you could do like

2536
02:32:41.280 --> 02:32:46.159
because if you're running like if you
yeah, so it's sixty years games are

2537
02:32:46.520 --> 02:32:50.239
more than like twice as hard as
a thirty hurts game, right, it's

2538
02:32:50.239 --> 02:32:52.520
probably like four to five times as
hard. And the reason is because so

2539
02:32:52.600 --> 02:32:56.920
if you're running thirty hurts, you
have thirty three point three milliseconds to do

2540
02:32:58.079 --> 02:33:01.680
all your business right, your physics, your AI, whatever, and but

2541
02:33:01.799 --> 02:33:03.799
you never try to use all third
You need a little overhead because there's spikes

2542
02:33:03.799 --> 02:33:09.399
here and there. So maybe it's
shaved he shave five milliseconds off because the

2543
02:33:09.479 --> 02:33:11.600
spikes. So we're gonna get twenty
eight milliseconds to do everything you want to

2544
02:33:11.639 --> 02:33:15.120
do. But if you're doing a
six years game, you have sixteen point

2545
02:33:15.159 --> 02:33:18.319
six milliseconds, but you still need
to shave like five milliseconds off for those

2546
02:33:18.360 --> 02:33:22.959
spikes and stuff like that. Like
that that buffer doesn't reduce It does a

2547
02:33:22.000 --> 02:33:24.239
little bit, but not necessarily.
One to one, and so now all

2548
02:33:24.239 --> 02:33:28.479
of a sudden, you've got to
do everything in like ten milliseconds, and

2549
02:33:28.840 --> 02:33:33.760
it is really, really, really
challenging to start off with an engine that

2550
02:33:33.959 --> 02:33:35.879
was, you know, designed for
thirty and make it work sixty. That's

2551
02:33:35.879 --> 02:33:41.399
why this fucking guilty gear zard.
Yeah, oh my god. When I

2552
02:33:41.559 --> 02:33:45.520
heard they were doing that, yeah, like, oh, y'all so crazy

2553
02:33:46.479 --> 02:33:48.840
and now you see it looks amazing. I want to see this game,

2554
02:33:48.760 --> 02:33:52.680
yeah, I want to see that. So but like everything else, Unreals

2555
02:33:52.719 --> 02:33:56.120
getting better over the years too,
Like this was this was like Dawn of

2556
02:33:56.200 --> 02:34:01.159
Unreal three when we were doing this
right, and so it was pretty there's

2557
02:34:01.159 --> 02:34:03.079
some hard lessons learned, okay,
But the main reason I asked that was

2558
02:34:03.159 --> 02:34:05.639
just, you know, like,
or we're gonna have to wait for Fortnite

2559
02:34:05.680 --> 02:34:09.440
to ship before we start seeing another
UBE four games. They've licensed it out.

2560
02:34:09.479 --> 02:34:13.559
There are other people working already in
UE four. I mean, whether

2561
02:34:13.600 --> 02:34:18.040
they ship, who knows, but
yeah and not. I don't know anything

2562
02:34:18.079 --> 02:34:20.559
one way or the other. But
I would not want to, like,

2563
02:34:20.680 --> 02:34:22.600
having been that situation once before,
and it wouldn't be it's not epic.

2564
02:34:22.719 --> 02:34:24.520
I would want to do as a
cry at tech. I wouldn't want to

2565
02:34:24.559 --> 02:34:28.440
do this with anybody, right,
I would not want to ship on an

2566
02:34:28.520 --> 02:34:31.120
unproven engine, Like you'll let them
work out the kinks, let them work

2567
02:34:31.159 --> 02:34:33.159
out you know, all the stuff
that you know, like video games,

2568
02:34:33.399 --> 02:34:37.479
there's like two phases of video game
filment. There's making the game, there's

2569
02:34:37.520 --> 02:34:41.719
finishing the game. And what you
learn is like, oh, I got

2570
02:34:41.760 --> 02:34:45.479
this task ninety percent done. That
first ninety percent of the work is only

2571
02:34:45.559 --> 02:34:48.399
really like thirty three percent of the
work because then when you integrate your stuff

2572
02:34:48.399 --> 02:34:50.920
with everyone else, you do bug
testing, all these pieces come together and

2573
02:34:50.959 --> 02:34:54.360
mesh and someone else breaks your code
and you've got to maintain it. And

2574
02:34:54.840 --> 02:34:58.600
it's like that's like the one of
the hardest lessons for young developers to learn

2575
02:34:58.159 --> 02:35:01.040
is like you're never ever done with
the task, like never ever ever,

2576
02:35:01.319 --> 02:35:09.719
right, And so it's that's exacerbated
with an unproven engine hasn't gone through certain

2577
02:35:09.719 --> 02:35:13.360
a couple of times, that hasn't
proven itself, and so you'd always rather

2578
02:35:13.479 --> 02:35:16.920
have someone else go through those pains
than you. So I don't think it's

2579
02:35:16.920 --> 02:35:18.840
contractual. I think it's just common
sense kind of smart best practice stuff.

2580
02:35:20.879 --> 02:35:26.520
Next email Russell from Perth writes in
Perth is in Australia. I think okay,

2581
02:35:28.879 --> 02:35:31.879
I'm a California native living in Perth, Western Australia. While I've listened

2582
02:35:31.920 --> 02:35:33.360
to your podcast from the very start, I've never been compelled to write in

2583
02:35:33.680 --> 02:35:39.399
until now. Your recent discussion of
thongs or flip flops as they are properly

2584
02:35:39.479 --> 02:35:41.639
known as totally missed the point.
I moved here in November of twenty thirteen,

2585
02:35:41.680 --> 02:35:46.799
and by my estimate, somewhere between
one and five percent of Australians are

2586
02:35:46.879 --> 02:35:52.600
going around barefoot at any time.
Footwear etiquette in the workplace is very similar

2587
02:35:52.600 --> 02:35:54.520
to the United States, unless you
are a customer or a retail establishment.

2588
02:35:56.440 --> 02:35:58.760
I've been baffled by the side of
people young and old going barefoot in grocery

2589
02:35:58.799 --> 02:36:03.079
store, shopping malls and take away
restaurants. I think he means like take

2590
02:36:03.120 --> 02:36:07.079
out like that that he blew his
cover. Yeah, you're not a California

2591
02:36:07.159 --> 02:36:11.280
native take away restaurants. I am
going to take away this to my motor

2592
02:36:11.360 --> 02:36:16.559
carriage first. The beer's my CV. The offenders have ranged from young kids

2593
02:36:16.600 --> 02:36:22.000
to thirty semping adults of varying apparent
socioeconomic backgrounds. Where in the US only

2594
02:36:22.040 --> 02:36:26.040
the homeless and insane would be barefoot, unshot Australians from all walks of life

2595
02:36:26.079 --> 02:36:31.159
will boldly go without shoes. Maybe
some of your Australian listeners can shed some

2596
02:36:31.280 --> 02:36:33.040
light on this mystery. So yeah, maybe the flip flop thing is just

2597
02:36:33.200 --> 02:36:37.319
like a smoke screen. We can
find common ground here, common ground And

2598
02:36:37.399 --> 02:36:41.959
like, apparently all Australians are scum
because they're barefoot all the time. Also,

2599
02:36:41.440 --> 02:36:45.319
all these people are walking around barefoot
in the country most full of things

2600
02:36:45.399 --> 02:36:46.600
trying to kill you all the time. Yeah, I don't know, just

2601
02:36:46.760 --> 02:36:52.319
carpets of spiders yea, scorpions and
like kangaroos yep i qualas. I don't

2602
02:36:52.319 --> 02:36:54.440
know. None of this is making
me want to try to make the trip

2603
02:36:54.520 --> 02:36:58.559
to Packs Australia. But at the
same time, all of this is kind

2604
02:36:58.559 --> 02:37:01.200
of making me want to make the
trip to Packs I think now, yeah,

2605
02:37:01.440 --> 02:37:09.040
I think so, like to finish
the fight right uh George in California,

2606
02:37:09.120 --> 02:37:11.040
rights, this is a long time
listener, first time writer. Why

2607
02:37:11.120 --> 02:37:15.639
is it the digital downloads upon release
cost the same as in store. Obviously

2608
02:37:15.680 --> 02:37:18.360
there are costs such as servers and
bandwidth, but there's no costs for manufacturing,

2609
02:37:18.440 --> 02:37:20.040
printing, and pressing of packaging of
media. I understand it's a bit

2610
02:37:20.079 --> 02:37:24.600
more complicated but than that, But
my question is why aren't digital games released

2611
02:37:24.600 --> 02:37:28.280
at a lower rate. I would
be encouraged to expand my digital digital library

2612
02:37:28.280 --> 02:37:31.040
if I could spend less instead of
having Amazon deliver it to my front door

2613
02:37:31.719 --> 02:37:33.639
and possibly trading inter selling in the
next few weeks. Where's the incentive if

2614
02:37:33.719 --> 02:37:39.600
ordering from online retailers fulfills the whole
not leaving your house bit? Yeah,

2615
02:37:39.600 --> 02:37:43.360
yeah, some of it, Yeah, yeah, son of a bitches.

2616
02:37:45.360 --> 02:37:48.040
I assume that. I mean it
seemed like back in the day when when

2617
02:37:48.079 --> 02:37:50.399
digital distribution first started, it seemed
like retailer politics, we're a big part

2618
02:37:50.440 --> 02:37:54.280
of it, right, And I
think that's still assumes some extent that,

2619
02:37:54.399 --> 02:37:56.879
Like, you know, retailers are
like, well, if you're just gonna

2620
02:37:56.959 --> 02:37:58.879
undercut us on your own store,
why should we carry your game at all?

2621
02:38:00.280 --> 02:38:01.879
Right? Uh, fuck you?
And I think that actually that's part

2622
02:38:01.879 --> 02:38:05.600
of the note they write back,
is the end of it is like fuck

2623
02:38:05.680 --> 02:38:09.040
you signed game stuff. Hello,
if we're friends at Walmart, fuck off,

2624
02:38:09.360 --> 02:38:13.280
take our seven billion dollars annually and
go over here. We're rolling back

2625
02:38:13.319 --> 02:38:16.559
prices and not carrying your game.
Well, the other the other thing you

2626
02:38:16.600 --> 02:38:20.319
mentioned maybe Dave knows more about this, but like how much how much is

2627
02:38:20.360 --> 02:38:24.040
manufacturing and distribution in the in terms
of the overall pie of how much it

2628
02:38:24.120 --> 02:38:28.879
costs so or how much money you
need to make back? Everyone's every publisher

2629
02:38:28.959 --> 02:38:31.840
has their own deal for stuff like
cogs, cost of goods, and they're

2630
02:38:31.879 --> 02:38:35.479
all very very very different like that. That is some of the most closely

2631
02:38:35.479 --> 02:38:41.639
guarded secrets in the industry is like
what Activision pays like Sony as a royalty

2632
02:38:41.719 --> 02:38:45.120
or they pay Microsoft as a royalty. How he got you know, Microsoft

2633
02:38:45.200 --> 02:38:48.239
to use their own servers as part
of their like publishing agreement and stuff like

2634
02:38:48.280 --> 02:38:52.000
that way back in the Xbox one
and and that stuff is all crazy.

2635
02:38:52.079 --> 02:38:56.479
But like what I can say,
like, uh, it's not like this

2636
02:38:56.680 --> 02:38:58.639
is not and I'm just that's all
preface too. This is not a hard

2637
02:38:58.680 --> 02:39:03.520
and fan rule. This is a
general guideline. Like you know, most

2638
02:39:03.600 --> 02:39:09.319
digital download services not naming any take
about thirty percent, right, and thirty

2639
02:39:09.360 --> 02:39:13.479
percent on a sixty dollars game is
eighteen dollars. That is not too dissimilar

2640
02:39:13.680 --> 02:39:16.520
from a royalty you might pay someone
or cogs or whatever, right, and

2641
02:39:16.639 --> 02:39:20.319
so it's not one to one,
but it's pretty you know, it's it's

2642
02:39:20.360 --> 02:39:24.600
not too far either, right,
and so that's where the money goes.

2643
02:39:24.799 --> 02:39:28.680
And it makes you understand maybe why
EA would want to try to launch its

2644
02:39:28.680 --> 02:39:31.520
own store, feeling that its games
are big enough to let them cut out

2645
02:39:33.159 --> 02:39:37.559
giving someone of their other store or
that cut sure. Yeah, Like if

2646
02:39:37.559 --> 02:39:39.719
you think of like, would you
know Battlefield, say that sells ten million

2647
02:39:39.840 --> 02:39:43.280
units for sure? Really just I
don't know, it's just it's a nice

2648
02:39:43.360 --> 02:39:48.840
round number. Let's say it's five
whatever it was, right, And then

2649
02:39:48.920 --> 02:39:52.239
you think of like all that money
sixty bucks pop boom, Okay, now

2650
02:39:52.319 --> 02:39:56.920
eighteen percent of that or sorry,
thirty thirty percent of that just goes to

2651
02:39:56.000 --> 02:40:00.319
someone else just because right, that's
certainly not what it cost a how's it?

2652
02:40:00.399 --> 02:40:03.040
And do it? But so what
the infrastructure us with the sales costs

2653
02:40:03.040 --> 02:40:05.680
and all that stuff. And it
is a lot of work running those sites,

2654
02:40:05.719 --> 02:40:09.799
like to doing handling all the different
currencies and are standing the tax rules

2655
02:40:09.159 --> 02:40:13.360
and filing taxes for you and doing
all that kind of stuff. It's a

2656
02:40:13.440 --> 02:40:16.959
lot of g D work, Like
how I picked they are not to swear.

2657
02:40:16.040 --> 02:40:20.360
Yeah, a good call. Uh
but yeah it's uh so I don't

2658
02:40:20.360 --> 02:40:22.120
want to make it sound like they're
steal money, because they're definitely not.

2659
02:40:22.319 --> 02:40:26.159
But like it's a it's not like
it's not just like why does everyone open

2660
02:40:26.200 --> 02:40:30.120
Origin. It's because it's a tonne
of work, just all that other not

2661
02:40:30.200 --> 02:40:33.360
even the technology, it's just all
that other stuff and the maintenance and stuff

2662
02:40:33.360 --> 02:40:37.200
customers support. It's like they launched
it and no one likes it. On

2663
02:40:37.319 --> 02:40:39.760
top of that, it has not
been a good pr move for them.

2664
02:40:41.280 --> 02:40:43.920
Like I like, maybe I'll speak
for everybody, like I hate the Origin

2665
02:40:45.000 --> 02:40:48.879
exists, but I don't really hate
the product. Like it works, whatever,

2666
02:40:48.000 --> 02:40:50.840
you can buy stuff from it,
Like the social aspects of it are

2667
02:40:52.079 --> 02:40:56.520
like they exist. You know,
I don't know why do you? Why

2668
02:40:56.559 --> 02:41:00.760
do you? Why do you hate
it exists? Because the number one thing

2669
02:41:00.799 --> 02:41:03.479
I hate about it is having to
repopulate another friends list, like titan Fall

2670
02:41:03.520 --> 02:41:05.360
comes out. I mean, I'm
not playing it on the PC, so

2671
02:41:05.479 --> 02:41:09.239
this is academic. But like if
it came out on Steam, I have

2672
02:41:09.399 --> 02:41:11.879
like one hundred and whatever Steam friends
already. You know, it's just there,

2673
02:41:13.879 --> 02:41:16.440
Like I guess some City was the
test case. Like Some City came

2674
02:41:16.479 --> 02:41:18.799
out and everybody thought they were all
going to play it together. Like I

2675
02:41:18.959 --> 02:41:24.000
spent you know, several days of
like going around bugging people I knew,

2676
02:41:24.079 --> 02:41:26.159
like, hey, what's your origin? I d let's be friends, you

2677
02:41:26.239 --> 02:41:28.639
know, Like just every you know
you play is a similar thing for Ubisoft,

2678
02:41:28.760 --> 02:41:31.280
Like every company that rolls out one
of these things. You just have

2679
02:41:31.360 --> 02:41:35.079
to kind of go through that whole
process again of getting set up on it

2680
02:41:35.559 --> 02:41:39.319
and having all these different games siloed
in different services. Is it just feels

2681
02:41:39.319 --> 02:41:43.280
weird? You know, like what
if five years from now one of them

2682
02:41:43.280 --> 02:41:46.040
goes goes away, Like you lose
some of those games, you still got

2683
02:41:46.079 --> 02:41:48.520
these other ones over here, you
know. I mean I remember really not

2684
02:41:48.680 --> 02:41:50.520
liking Steam, yeah the first of
all, and everybody it's only it's only

2685
02:41:50.559 --> 02:41:56.120
by virtue of them existing much longer
and building a store where a lot a

2686
02:41:56.200 --> 02:42:01.040
ton of companies can come together and
all sell their stuff, then Steam generally

2687
02:42:01.079 --> 02:42:03.920
being a pretty good platform for the
use, and then all of a sudden,

2688
02:42:03.079 --> 02:42:05.520
like them just getting in the business
of like I don't know what,

2689
02:42:05.559 --> 02:42:09.559
We're gonna start selling games for a
dollar A few times a year. Fuck

2690
02:42:09.600 --> 02:42:13.040
it. Yeah, they've built up
a lot of good will over the years.

2691
02:42:13.399 --> 02:42:20.159
Yeah yeah, all right. George
in Japan, all right soon,

2692
02:42:20.280 --> 02:42:22.639
says I'm currently living and working in
Japan, trying to help teach junior high

2693
02:42:22.639 --> 02:42:26.200
school students from English. I thought
you might be interested to know the gaming

2694
02:42:26.239 --> 02:42:30.920
habits of twelve to fifteen year old
Japanese students. I usually have to pay

2695
02:42:30.959 --> 02:42:33.479
good money to know what twelve to
fifteen year old Japanese people are up to,

2696
02:42:33.040 --> 02:42:37.319
so this is great. The main
way students in Japan can express themselves

2697
02:42:37.440 --> 02:42:41.959
is through pencil cases and charms that
hang off their pencil case. By far,

2698
02:42:41.079 --> 02:42:45.479
the single most popular video game franchise
these kids are repping is Monster Hunter.

2699
02:42:45.799 --> 02:42:48.000
In fact, it's rare to see
a piece of merch for any other

2700
02:42:48.159 --> 02:42:50.840
video game. It's often surprising what
they aren't aware of. They once asked

2701
02:42:50.920 --> 02:42:54.200
me what games I play, and
when I told them I was currently playing

2702
02:42:54.239 --> 02:42:58.159
Persona four and Dark Souls, they
had no idea what I was talking about,

2703
02:42:58.559 --> 02:43:03.319
even when I wrote Dark Souls on
the board in bad Japanese. You

2704
02:43:03.399 --> 02:43:05.600
almost never see people using handhelds like
the Vita or three DS on the street

2705
02:43:05.639 --> 02:43:07.840
here, but they are out there. If I take my three DS out

2706
02:43:07.879 --> 02:43:11.559
with me for the day, I'm
almost guaranteed to max out my street passes.

2707
02:43:11.959 --> 02:43:13.559
This is a in a sleepy town
on the west coast of Japan.

2708
02:43:15.120 --> 02:43:16.879
Finally, I thought you'd be interested
in. Finally I thought you might be

2709
02:43:16.959 --> 02:43:20.200
interested to hear what sort of foothold
the Xbox three sixty has here. I've

2710
02:43:20.280 --> 02:43:22.959
checked out the video game sections and
quite a few electronic shops, and they

2711
02:43:24.000 --> 02:43:26.559
always have big sections for PS three, PS four, Vita, three DS,

2712
02:43:26.719 --> 02:43:31.079
DS and we and we U.
But I've never seen a single Xbox

2713
02:43:31.159 --> 02:43:33.559
console or game on a shelf.
This holds true for big retail stores and

2714
02:43:33.719 --> 02:43:37.520
second hand shops. Would you be
surprised if Microsoft made the decision not to

2715
02:43:37.639 --> 02:43:41.680
release in Japan. By the way, I'm originally from Manchester in the UK,

2716
02:43:43.040 --> 02:43:45.840
and I would like it known that
people people from Liverpool are no good.

2717
02:43:46.200 --> 02:43:50.399
Great glad, I'm glad we get
this just what we need. Yeah

2718
02:43:50.479 --> 02:43:56.479
more. I believe the Liverpool beat
Manchester United this weekend in the Premier League.

2719
02:43:56.520 --> 02:44:01.600
I believe it was so shots fire. I don't know they take that

2720
02:44:01.760 --> 02:44:05.479
guy in Japan. I don't follow
basketball, so uh, would you be

2721
02:44:05.520 --> 02:44:11.280
surprised if Microsoft made decisions not to
release in Japan. Not not really,

2722
02:44:11.559 --> 02:44:13.200
I don't know. I would be
surprised because it's one of those things that

2723
02:44:13.319 --> 02:44:16.680
like they have to It always seemed
like one of those things, like you

2724
02:44:16.719 --> 02:44:20.040
know, in the early days,
they had to do it because they felt

2725
02:44:20.079 --> 02:44:22.520
that they in order to attract Japanese
developers, they had to make sure that

2726
02:44:22.600 --> 02:44:26.559
the games were coming out in that
region and try to make it look like

2727
02:44:26.719 --> 02:44:31.360
they were at least committing resources to
Japan. Nowadays, you know, I

2728
02:44:31.440 --> 02:44:35.120
mean that market is not maybe not
as important as it once was, and

2729
02:44:37.479 --> 02:44:39.840
you know, maybe they could get
away with not putting out there at all.

2730
02:44:39.920 --> 02:44:43.520
But that doesn't seem that does not
seem like a great idea. That

2731
02:44:43.600 --> 02:44:46.799
seems like, in fact, a
bad idea. It's not released there,

2732
02:44:46.000 --> 02:44:50.239
But what do I know, Yeah, it's one of It's one of those

2733
02:44:50.239 --> 02:44:52.280
things where, like you know,
people are looking at like the weekly PS

2734
02:44:52.360 --> 02:44:56.200
four system sales like these aren't necessarily
high. They saw that they're not looking

2735
02:44:56.239 --> 02:45:00.120
great. Like it almost just makes
you wonder if like the concept of the

2736
02:45:00.200 --> 02:45:03.559
console is not no longer really in
vogue in Japan. I think that could

2737
02:45:03.600 --> 02:45:05.479
be part of it. I think, you know, you look at some

2738
02:45:05.600 --> 02:45:07.719
of that stuff and start to wonder, like, you know, like there's

2739
02:45:07.959 --> 02:45:11.840
still something of a population crisis.
There's still something of a you know,

2740
02:45:11.000 --> 02:45:15.600
at a low birth rate, the
population is getting older. They're saying about

2741
02:45:15.600 --> 02:45:18.600
like twenty forty or something like that, over half the population will be over

2742
02:45:18.719 --> 02:45:20.399
sixty. You know, at what
point is it like, Okay, they've

2743
02:45:20.520 --> 02:45:22.959
kind of aged out of video games
and they're not reproducing at a rate to

2744
02:45:24.000 --> 02:45:26.840
support that market. Like, you
know, it's not surprising that you see

2745
02:45:28.600 --> 02:45:31.879
you know, uh mighty number nine
and stuff like that going a kickstarter and

2746
02:45:31.959 --> 02:45:35.760
trying to appeal to the kind of
this Western like that's that's just in some

2747
02:45:35.920 --> 02:45:39.879
ways, that's how the math has
worked out so far, I think.

2748
02:45:39.040 --> 02:45:41.440
And I don't know if that will
turn around or not, but it's well,

2749
02:45:41.440 --> 02:45:46.000
they're still also making a lot of
games for PS three, Like bet

2750
02:45:46.040 --> 02:45:48.959
in Japan, we don't see half
the stuff that's still like RPGs that are

2751
02:45:48.000 --> 02:45:54.520
coming out for PS three, I
mean Dark Souls even though obviously not carrying

2752
02:45:54.559 --> 02:46:00.719
water over there, you know PS
three, like you're not seeing PlayStation fives

2753
02:46:00.799 --> 02:46:05.040
three. Yeah, So like I
don't know, there's not really a lot

2754
02:46:05.079 --> 02:46:09.639
of incentive to go out and buy
these consoles unless you're the crazy person.

2755
02:46:09.719 --> 02:46:11.760
Yeah, and if you look at
all the games that launched, you know,

2756
02:46:13.520 --> 02:46:16.079
for both of those consoles right now. PS four included like it's it's

2757
02:46:16.120 --> 02:46:22.639
not necessarily like the stuff that you
would associate with a Japanese launch. Uhu

2758
02:46:22.520 --> 02:46:26.639
needs needs more Miku. We all
do, you know, we all do?

2759
02:46:28.840 --> 02:46:37.399
She's very sexy. Vlad from Romani
Romania writes in everyone has to I

2760
02:46:37.520 --> 02:46:41.239
feel like we are. This is
like they're gonna look back. They're gonna

2761
02:46:41.239 --> 02:46:46.079
be books written about this podcast's role
in international relations. Yeah, and like

2762
02:46:46.239 --> 02:46:52.120
the destruction of all things, Vlad
writes and says, I don't fucking know

2763
02:46:52.280 --> 02:46:56.440
what these those Oceanians are talking about. But here in Romania they are rightfully

2764
02:46:56.559 --> 02:47:01.959
called cow tows. How when the
hell they came up with thongs is beyond

2765
02:47:01.040 --> 02:47:05.040
me. Maybe all their blood went
to their head from being upside down for

2766
02:47:05.120 --> 02:47:11.879
so long. Also, it's written
as get de Vaca. Wow, I'm

2767
02:47:11.920 --> 02:47:16.680
gonna go put on my get de
vaca because it's hot out and rolls off

2768
02:47:16.719 --> 02:47:22.719
the tongue. That's probably exactly how
they say. It sounds tough, vacca

2769
02:47:22.799 --> 02:47:24.680
means cow in Spanish. I don't
know this is Romania, so I don't

2770
02:47:24.760 --> 02:47:33.360
I don't understand how that works languages. I mean, uh, justin right,

2771
02:47:33.399 --> 02:47:37.399
Sinces, I'm sending an email to
respond to Tom whom emailed in for

2772
02:47:37.479 --> 02:47:41.559
your marsh eleventh bomb cast. He
is correct up until he says that chemists

2773
02:47:41.600 --> 02:47:43.879
do all the real work. It
wasn't for physicists, then chemists would be

2774
02:47:43.879 --> 02:47:48.479
stuck in cooking classes or doing alchemy, which you could arguably say is where

2775
02:47:48.479 --> 02:47:52.200
they belong. Also worth noting,
biologists are just people who didn't finish medical

2776
02:47:52.239 --> 02:47:56.559
school. They're basically the underachievers of
the science community. The townless saying biologists

2777
02:47:56.600 --> 02:48:01.760
were dirt. Physicists do all the
work. Chemistrs just Glori fled cooks and

2778
02:48:01.840 --> 02:48:05.879
biologists are just yeah, people who
didn't make it through mats. Yeah,

2779
02:48:05.879 --> 02:48:07.799
I got it. Maya rights and
says hello, sir, I am a

2780
02:48:07.879 --> 02:48:11.239
student and I would like to ask
for your permission to use some of your

2781
02:48:11.280 --> 02:48:13.600
information about the Tower of Hanoi in
my paper. Thank you? What do

2782
02:48:13.639 --> 02:48:18.879
you say? Sure? Okay?
Wait for free? All right? Uh.

2783
02:48:18.440 --> 02:48:22.440
Brad is an Australian Hey Wrightson and
says, hey, guys, I

2784
02:48:22.559 --> 02:48:24.559
was wondering how you think a Nintendo
console with specs on par with the other

2785
02:48:24.600 --> 02:48:28.959
consoles will be a success. Nintendo
arguably has the most popular first party games,

2786
02:48:30.040 --> 02:48:33.319
so if it had a console that
could run next generation games like a

2787
02:48:33.440 --> 02:48:37.559
Fallout four without compromise, do you
think it could be a success. Thought

2788
02:48:37.600 --> 02:48:39.559
of being able to play Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and games like GTA

2789
02:48:39.760 --> 02:48:43.959
on seems like a winner. On
a side note, I'm also for from

2790
02:48:43.959 --> 02:48:48.239
Australia and can tell you for a
fact we are all still thieves and scoundrels.

2791
02:48:48.440 --> 02:48:50.719
I would kill my mother for a
new pair of thongs, which we

2792
02:48:50.799 --> 02:48:54.040
all wear on a constant. Yeah, I don't know, do you.

2793
02:48:54.159 --> 02:49:01.159
I'm yeah, it's a little too
early to throwing the towel on the WU

2794
02:49:01.760 --> 02:49:05.760
as much as people keep wanting to
do that. Do you think that newton

2795
02:49:05.799 --> 02:49:09.239
Nintendo hardware that was on par with
the new consoles would change anything for them?

2796
02:49:09.879 --> 02:49:11.879
Like for it to even have a
shot, I think you would have

2797
02:49:11.920 --> 02:49:13.040
to assume that it came out at
the same time as the other two,

2798
02:49:13.799 --> 02:49:16.760
making this making this purely hypothetical,
and I don't think like like if he's

2799
02:49:16.799 --> 02:49:20.280
suggesting but so if like, if
you know, next Christmas or something,

2800
02:49:20.319 --> 02:49:24.000
they were like, hey, guys, we's got a new WEU It runs

2801
02:49:24.040 --> 02:49:28.280
those games. Also, isn't isn't
everybody already bought into one of the other

2802
02:49:28.360 --> 02:49:31.000
two. I don't know, Yeah, a lot of people are. My

2803
02:49:31.360 --> 02:49:33.719
bigger concern is, like on the
software and infrastructure side, like they continually

2804
02:49:33.760 --> 02:49:39.440
blow it on like friends lists and
all of the little trimmings you expect out

2805
02:49:39.440 --> 02:49:41.239
of a console experience these days.
Right, Yeah, Like, so it

2806
02:49:41.280 --> 02:49:43.639
would need like I feel like we
would need a so it would not be

2807
02:49:43.719 --> 02:49:48.159
attractive to me. It would need
a comparable system the program for right,

2808
02:49:48.239 --> 02:49:50.600
like a simple similar architecture to the
Xbox one and PS four, right,

2809
02:49:50.600 --> 02:49:54.520
because they're they're more similar now,
right, Yes, so you need to

2810
02:49:54.520 --> 02:49:56.840
be able to port oh that third
party stuff over right, Dave, I'm

2811
02:49:56.840 --> 02:50:01.280
looking at you, right, you
need that. This is gonna be a

2812
02:50:01.399 --> 02:50:05.600
very uninteresting answer. I think the
boxes like the least important thing in this.

2813
02:50:05.799 --> 02:50:09.719
Like, I feok, it's Sony
PS three to PS four. How

2814
02:50:09.760 --> 02:50:13.639
did they do that? Right,
That's what son That's what Nintendo should be

2815
02:50:13.719 --> 02:50:16.799
doing. They should be looking at
Wow, everyone hated developing for the PS

2816
02:50:16.879 --> 02:50:22.040
three. Sony was notorious be really
hard to work with, and now everyone

2817
02:50:22.159 --> 02:50:24.600
loves them, Like, how did
they do that? How do they do

2818
02:50:24.719 --> 02:50:28.280
that? They hired some very smart
people, this hurts to say out loud,

2819
02:50:30.959 --> 02:50:35.319
some very very smart people who get
games and get what's cool about games,

2820
02:50:35.360 --> 02:50:39.000
of what is why people are passionate
about the pastime? Right, And

2821
02:50:39.920 --> 02:50:43.719
they made that the message and the
direction from the top down, and everyone

2822
02:50:43.799 --> 02:50:48.000
had to follow suit, right,
And Nintendo needs something like that. Nintendo

2823
02:50:48.120 --> 02:50:52.079
needs Jack Trent. Yeah, I
mean I think the boxes, the boxes,

2824
02:50:52.120 --> 02:50:54.040
the box, it's gonna have games
on it. They're gonna be fun,

2825
02:50:54.959 --> 02:51:03.479
uh it. But without kind of
overhauling the process and the infrastructure and

2826
02:51:03.600 --> 02:51:07.319
the company that got you into the
situation, why would you expect it to

2827
02:51:07.479 --> 02:51:11.920
be any different? Right? And
that's what Sony figured out, and that's

2828
02:51:11.959 --> 02:51:16.760
why they're moving so many g D
units right now. Yeah, that's a

2829
02:51:16.879 --> 02:51:20.479
that's a math term, I think. Yeah, And so that's wait a

2830
02:51:20.479 --> 02:51:24.040
minute, it uses g D ROMs. It's like a Dreamcast. They're saying,

2831
02:51:24.040 --> 02:51:26.680
if they made a new Dreamcast,
that would be the hottest hardware seller

2832
02:51:26.680 --> 02:51:28.840
because they use them. Some gd
ROMs. They're like, there's gonna be

2833
02:51:28.840 --> 02:51:31.079
books about this shit, like mark
my words, like how they fucking turn

2834
02:51:31.159 --> 02:51:33.040
us around from the PS three of
the p S four, Like yeah,

2835
02:51:33.200 --> 02:51:37.319
it's amazing, Like this just does
not happen like this. Yeah, it's

2836
02:51:37.360 --> 02:51:41.760
been it's been crazy to watch.
And and then, uh, I think

2837
02:51:41.840 --> 02:51:43.840
that's the interesting part of it,
Like, you know, do they need

2838
02:51:45.559 --> 02:51:48.200
you know, the same kind of
like like a PC, but not really

2839
02:51:48.319 --> 02:51:50.079
do they need this ram? Do
they need this? What do they need

2840
02:51:50.120 --> 02:51:52.920
to do with the controller? It's
like that's you need that secondary, that's

2841
02:51:52.239 --> 02:51:56.360
third like all that stuff, well, all that stuff will come from oh,

2842
02:51:56.479 --> 02:52:01.319
getting some smart dudes up there.
Not the people I'm saying they're all

2843
02:52:01.360 --> 02:52:07.000
dumb. I'm saying whatever they're doing
has not worked at this point, and

2844
02:52:07.079 --> 02:52:09.840
so they should try something different.
Yeah, I mean like this this generation,

2845
02:52:09.920 --> 02:52:11.799
all these new consoles, each company
made a bed, right, Yeah,

2846
02:52:13.040 --> 02:52:16.920
Like Sony went for very powerful console, like reasonably priced, focus on

2847
02:52:18.040 --> 02:52:20.920
core gamers. Microsoft is like all
in one entertainment approach, and Nintendo is

2848
02:52:20.920 --> 02:52:24.360
gimmick, gimmick gimmick you know.
But that's the thing. Even if the

2849
02:52:24.399 --> 02:52:26.440
PS four wasn't the most powerful,
Yeah, I still think that being an

2850
02:52:26.479 --> 02:52:28.680
exact same situation. Probably, I
mean, you know, the price alone

2851
02:52:28.760 --> 02:52:31.239
is it's got to be an enormous
driver. Yeah, they probably they priced

2852
02:52:31.319 --> 02:52:37.879
right, they message smarter, and
I just think they got so much stuff

2853
02:52:37.959 --> 02:52:41.239
right, and you know it's not
it's never too late for anyone to catch

2854
02:52:41.360 --> 02:52:43.120
up. But like if you don't
look at what they did and how they

2855
02:52:43.200 --> 02:52:48.680
did it and kind of like apply
that to what you're doing, I think

2856
02:52:48.719 --> 02:52:50.760
you're messing up. How much how
much of that stuff do you think is

2857
02:52:52.280 --> 02:52:56.680
surprise for either company? Like when
Microsoft unveils something at E three or Sony

2858
02:52:56.719 --> 02:52:58.760
unveils something at E three, are
they sitting here watching a press conference being

2859
02:52:58.840 --> 02:53:03.680
like yeah really yeah, like just
shocked? Is it? Price points?

2860
02:53:03.680 --> 02:53:05.719
Stuffer is a hardware? I mean
it's surprised by their competitor. Yeah,

2861
02:53:07.159 --> 02:53:09.639
Like are they just like we didn't
know about this. They've got a camera.

2862
02:53:09.920 --> 02:53:13.239
I bet they didn't know. I
bet you know, you never know,

2863
02:53:13.440 --> 02:53:18.719
right maybe like uh, I'm sure, well I would be surprised,

2864
02:53:18.760 --> 02:53:22.520
like they might hear whispers, they
might. I bet they don't know concretely

2865
02:53:22.600 --> 02:53:26.280
know anything like like for like specs
or anything like that. They don't know

2866
02:53:26.600 --> 02:53:30.040
because like because how would they find
out, they have to find out from

2867
02:53:30.079 --> 02:53:33.959
someone like me who works with both
people or every other developer out there,

2868
02:53:33.959 --> 02:53:39.520
Like what's the developers incentive to tell
Sony or Microsoft anything? Like, Yeah,

2869
02:53:39.559 --> 02:53:43.200
it just makes them look like they're
untrustworthy with the secrets that they're learning

2870
02:53:43.200 --> 02:53:45.639
from this company, Like who knows
if they're feeding them back the other way.

2871
02:53:45.760 --> 02:53:48.719
It's like it's it's a company ender, you know, like there's there's

2872
02:53:48.760 --> 02:53:50.719
no upside to it for a developer
to get in the middle there, you

2873
02:53:50.799 --> 02:53:54.920
know. And so I bet they're
really surprised. I mean maybe you know,

2874
02:53:54.959 --> 02:53:58.719
maybe they got really good friends and
friends with somebody. Oh I've known

2875
02:53:58.799 --> 02:54:01.879
the guy at you know, Shiny
or Idoss whatever for twenty years, and

2876
02:54:01.959 --> 02:54:05.239
he'll tell me maybe he gives you
whispers or whatever. But I bet they

2877
02:54:05.280 --> 02:54:07.079
don't know. Yeah, it seemed
like that. That's yeah. They they'll

2878
02:54:07.079 --> 02:54:09.719
have like a range in mind like
Okay, we think they're gonna ship at

2879
02:54:09.760 --> 02:54:13.520
this time, and then you know, like, oh shit, they are

2880
02:54:13.559 --> 02:54:16.440
shipping this year. We had better
do something about that, or you know,

2881
02:54:16.680 --> 02:54:18.879
like like that sort of stuff.
I was wondering more about like comparable

2882
02:54:20.079 --> 02:54:24.079
like hardware specs of like Okay,
we need to reach Like they're gonna be

2883
02:54:24.120 --> 02:54:26.239
around here, we should be around
here. Like let's have a gentleman's agreement,

2884
02:54:26.479 --> 02:54:30.120
let's shake on it. Let's both
aim for a beat around here.

2885
02:54:30.600 --> 02:54:35.559
Well, on the hardware side,
like kind of speculative capabilities we're leaking out

2886
02:54:35.639 --> 02:54:39.399
like months ahead of time like that
stuff. Yeah, I don't know,

2887
02:54:39.600 --> 02:54:41.440
of course, I mean at that
point it's still like to change your own

2888
02:54:41.440 --> 02:54:43.040
design. But like they were both
working with the same company on the design.

2889
02:54:43.520 --> 02:54:46.959
I have to imagine there was some
kind of centers either. So it's

2890
02:54:46.000 --> 02:54:48.760
just like there's different between speculation and
knowing. Yeah, you know, and

2891
02:54:48.920 --> 02:54:56.120
like like just the degree to which
the secrecy matters of these companies, like

2892
02:54:56.319 --> 02:55:01.520
we were working on uh like the
uh it was it can I say?

2893
02:55:01.600 --> 02:55:05.360
Because like I said, we helped
out with Crimson Dragon for Microsoft and they

2894
02:55:05.399 --> 02:55:09.600
had us. We had to get
a separate office in the same building for

2895
02:55:09.840 --> 02:55:11.879
just those developers could go in and
they were the only ones that you know,

2896
02:55:11.920 --> 02:55:15.520
they had the only keys that could
get in there. No one else

2897
02:55:15.559 --> 02:55:18.040
could go over there, and they
couldn't talk about that project with anybody else.

2898
02:55:18.120 --> 02:55:22.360
And you know, they really do
a good job of reminding you of

2899
02:55:22.399 --> 02:55:28.239
the consequences if you violate that valuation. And and it's like and uh,

2900
02:55:28.319 --> 02:55:31.280
and then we still didn't know everything. You know. We found out some

2901
02:55:31.360 --> 02:55:35.639
stuff on E three, you know, like we didn't know, you know,

2902
02:55:35.760 --> 02:55:37.040
stuff like price, we didn't know. We didn't know a lot of

2903
02:55:37.120 --> 02:55:41.959
things that were like quote unquote final, right, because it's need to know.

2904
02:55:41.120 --> 02:55:43.440
And if you don't need to know, and there's a like a point

2905
02:55:43.559 --> 02:55:46.920
zero zero zero one percent chance you're
gonna leak it, they don't tell you

2906
02:55:46.920 --> 02:55:48.520
if it's super important, you know. And so I'm sure someone out there

2907
02:55:48.600 --> 02:55:52.360
knows, like I'm sure, like
you know, you're Tim Sweeney's. No

2908
02:55:52.120 --> 02:55:56.479
guys like that. They probably know
everything. But you know, there's no

2909
02:55:56.559 --> 02:56:03.440
incent up there to share that info
because it's just the consequence, all right.

2910
02:56:03.520 --> 02:56:07.239
Here's an anonymous email from someone who
works for the Australian Department of Defense.

2911
02:56:09.000 --> 02:56:15.040
We started getting emails from the Australian
government. Really, this is what

2912
02:56:15.120 --> 02:56:18.920
I'm saying here, This is what
this one and another one from another person

2913
02:56:20.520 --> 02:56:26.760
in a government government I don't know. I currently live in Canbert Canberra,

2914
02:56:26.040 --> 02:56:31.159
Canberra, Canberra, Canberra, and
just want to let you know it's a

2915
02:56:31.159 --> 02:56:35.319
pretty bad rapid. It's often criticized
for being boring, usually by people whose

2916
02:56:35.319 --> 02:56:37.680
only experience as a primary school visit
to Parliament House as a child. It's

2917
02:56:37.680 --> 02:56:41.120
actually a pretty rad place to live
and was just voted Australia's most livable city.

2918
02:56:41.760 --> 02:56:45.639
It also has the bonus of being
completely planned from the start, putting

2919
02:56:45.719 --> 02:56:52.200
up there with other great pre planned
cities such as Nepia, Da Burma and

2920
02:56:52.440 --> 02:56:54.639
Brazilia. I don't know, I
don't know. It's from the government.

2921
02:56:56.959 --> 02:57:03.799
It's from the government. That's it. That's it. Oh oh yeah,

2922
02:57:03.879 --> 02:57:09.440
wait, it was just an introduction
to government at least laid off for that

2923
02:57:09.559 --> 02:57:13.559
part and didn't say, by the
way, fuck everybody else, fuck birth.

2924
02:57:13.799 --> 02:57:18.040
Yeah, Ryan writes, since I
took a flight from la to Montreal

2925
02:57:18.159 --> 02:57:22.000
with riff Raff last year, I
thought he was the guy from Die Antword.

2926
02:57:22.319 --> 02:57:26.239
He laughed and said, I guess
that's better than Maclamore. Okay,

2927
02:57:28.200 --> 02:57:35.079
here's anonymous from another part of the
Australian government. Uh more Australian discussions.

2928
02:57:35.079 --> 02:57:37.719
So I have to chime in while
I sit at my desk. First up

2929
02:57:37.719 --> 02:57:41.959
the thong debate. Thongs are okay
with shorts Uh, normally bodies and the

2930
02:57:43.000 --> 02:57:48.040
trendy hipster kids wear them with skinny
jorts. That's jean shorts. I think

2931
02:57:48.040 --> 02:57:50.520
we can all agree upon. Uh. Jeans and thongs are okay, but

2932
02:57:50.600 --> 02:57:54.719
never for work unless you consider collecting
the dole a job. I think that

2933
02:57:54.799 --> 02:58:00.000
means not having it, collecting a
doll. I don't know. It's pineapple

2934
02:58:00.200 --> 02:58:03.479
right, And James I asked,
what's the big idea slagging off Canberra?

2935
02:58:05.000 --> 02:58:07.799
Sure, our shops close at five, getting a meal after eight pm is

2936
02:58:07.840 --> 02:58:11.000
hard to do. A part from
Mecca's and all the politicians are here.

2937
02:58:11.200 --> 02:58:15.440
But we have all the hookers and
adults shops, slash porn you could want.

2938
02:58:15.719 --> 02:58:18.520
It used to be fireworks, hookers
and porn, but the fireworks got

2939
02:58:18.559 --> 02:58:20.920
banned for some stupid reason. That's
it, that's all. And he works

2940
02:58:20.959 --> 02:58:24.520
to the government. He's with the
government. You know we should do what

2941
02:58:24.920 --> 02:58:28.120
now? You're always flirting and going
to EVO. You never go. You're

2942
02:58:28.159 --> 02:58:31.360
horrible and irredeemable. Well that's part
of it. But the other reason is

2943
02:58:31.399 --> 02:58:35.559
because the travel plans are usually made
right after E three and the last three

2944
02:58:35.719 --> 02:58:39.159
is go places. It's so tough
to get in a plane and then have

2945
02:58:39.280 --> 02:58:43.000
fun and with your friends so bad. So here's the compromise. Okay,

2946
02:58:43.040 --> 02:58:48.559
we go to Shadow Lou Showdown?
What Shadow Lou Showdown? What is Australia's

2947
02:58:48.600 --> 02:58:52.479
fighting game major? Wow? And
we we do some in depth investigating ourselves.

2948
02:58:54.000 --> 02:58:58.280
When is when is Shadow Showdown?
I think it's I think it's late

2949
02:58:58.360 --> 02:59:03.200
summer listen, not exactly sure,
but this is Shadow shot on five and

2950
02:59:03.440 --> 02:59:07.479
it's really good. They've been getting
some really good international players. They get

2951
02:59:07.479 --> 02:59:11.239
everyone from Japan, uh and uh, some guys from America have been going

2952
02:59:11.840 --> 02:59:16.840
like if a j Wong and go
and it seems like a legit major,

2953
02:59:18.520 --> 02:59:24.200
you're gonna bring a Uh. They
probably don't want a but if they want

2954
02:59:24.239 --> 02:59:26.000
og dive kick, that's right,
they want they want original, I'm bringing

2955
02:59:26.040 --> 02:59:30.040
it anyway. Okay, I don't
know if I don't know if you know?

2956
02:59:30.120 --> 02:59:35.000
What if they if they because what
if they want sponsorship? Still contact

2957
02:59:35.079 --> 02:59:39.000
them, give him a ham sandwich, a tournament going and get prime stream

2958
02:59:39.079 --> 02:59:41.760
time right in between it like A
and Marvel figure out how much it would

2959
02:59:41.840 --> 02:59:48.440
cost. Yeah, let do Ceo
all over again. I watched the SCR

2960
02:59:50.040 --> 02:59:52.159
Dive Kick Top eight. Yeah,
yeah, that was a good time,

2961
02:59:54.079 --> 02:59:58.319
I was from just a gosh,
like, the people that want it were

2962
02:59:58.319 --> 03:00:01.360
amazing. I was really bummed out. It was two sets or two baths.

2963
03:00:01.479 --> 03:00:03.920
Two sets in the baths. Ye
top three. Yeah that was a

2964
03:00:03.959 --> 03:00:07.200
bummer. It's like, yep,
how do we change them making the right

2965
03:00:07.520 --> 03:00:11.000
thanks for kicking us out. It
wasn't great because it's like the least interesting

2966
03:00:11.040 --> 03:00:16.239
matches to watch, even though the
players are like really amazing like Gunther and

2967
03:00:16.360 --> 03:00:20.799
Perry and Anaheide and but yeah,
not fun to watch. So yeah,

2968
03:00:20.120 --> 03:00:24.959
well you know that's that's why balance
changes exist exactly to make that stuff fun.

2969
03:00:26.040 --> 03:00:28.959
Yeah. Maybe maybe. I mean
I've been again, we've been flirting

2970
03:00:28.959 --> 03:00:33.760
with the idea of going to packs
Australia. Also we're originally gonna go last

2971
03:00:33.799 --> 03:00:37.760
year and ended up not making it. But uh but yeah that's maybe and

2972
03:00:37.840 --> 03:00:43.000
I have Yes, I you are
not the only person I've talked to about

2973
03:00:43.280 --> 03:00:46.520
just saying fuck it and going to
EVO this year. So, uh,

2974
03:00:46.799 --> 03:00:48.319
Seth was trying to sell me really
hard on it. It's so much fun.

2975
03:00:48.600 --> 03:00:52.399
Yeah, I I totally want because
like even if you don't, like,

2976
03:00:52.440 --> 03:00:54.280
I don't know, I don't know
that I would enter anything because I

2977
03:00:54.280 --> 03:00:58.000
don't know that, like like what
we do as we get there, like

2978
03:00:58.319 --> 03:01:01.280
Thursday or Wednesday or whatever. This
is when we don't have a booth.

2979
03:01:01.280 --> 03:01:03.319
We might do a booth again this
year, but we're setting. You sit

2980
03:01:03.360 --> 03:01:09.280
in your room, you hook up
you know, your system to the fucking

2981
03:01:09.319 --> 03:01:11.559
TV in the room, and you
just play with your friends, play a

2982
03:01:11.719 --> 03:01:15.319
you play Marvel whatever it is.
Uh, And when you've done it,

2983
03:01:15.399 --> 03:01:18.840
you go downstairs and you go chat
out some matches in the ballroom. You

2984
03:01:18.920 --> 03:01:22.239
play some casuals down there. Then
you go get drunk or whatever it is.

2985
03:01:22.319 --> 03:01:24.680
Okay, you go back through me, you play some more. It's

2986
03:01:24.760 --> 03:01:30.280
like just like forty eight seventy two
hours of just playing fighting games. And

2987
03:01:30.399 --> 03:01:33.399
it's so fun. That does sound
pretty pretty good. It's like it's so

2988
03:01:35.000 --> 03:01:37.040
low maintan. It's that that show
is like and if you don't want to

2989
03:01:37.079 --> 03:01:41.520
go, like, let's just like
two years ago, got so hung over

2990
03:01:41.639 --> 03:01:43.719
on Sunday, like literally like this
is a different story for a different day.

2991
03:01:43.840 --> 03:01:46.879
Yeah, we're your emails, but
sure, yeah, and we basically

2992
03:01:46.879 --> 03:01:50.239
we streamed the finals from the room
on Sunday instead of go in the ballroom.

2993
03:01:52.040 --> 03:01:58.639
Nice Christro Austeria Rights and says thongs
are banded at school on Australian Wallong

2994
03:01:58.680 --> 03:02:03.239
Gong would win the war, although
understand why Queenslanders would think this way.

2995
03:02:03.319 --> 03:02:09.639
Typical bullshit from that hole. That's
it. That's all he say. Dumb

2996
03:02:09.719 --> 03:02:18.680
hole. Yeah, I just fuck
man. Uh. Bryce from Birmingham says

2997
03:02:18.719 --> 03:02:22.159
I'm a biomedical scientist. I just
want to follow up with Tom's comment biologists

2998
03:02:22.399 --> 03:02:26.360
not being real scientists. Biology is
a complex field that requires consideration of multiple

2999
03:02:26.479 --> 03:02:31.719
convergent pathways and a range of scientific
disciplines, including chemistry, to unveil the

3000
03:02:31.799 --> 03:02:35.799
underpinnings of how life functions on our
planet. Chemistry just people who exceled at

3001
03:02:35.840 --> 03:02:39.120
following easy bake oven instructions as a
child. Chemists can pretend mixing a lot

3002
03:02:39.159 --> 03:02:45.159
of colorful solutions together is somehow harder
than biological research, but biologists do much

3003
03:02:45.239 --> 03:02:48.159
more. Honestly, did anyone even
like the chemistry majors in college? Tom's

3004
03:02:48.239 --> 03:02:52.120
arrogance is a textbook example of why
love the show We can't wait to listen

3005
03:02:52.159 --> 03:03:00.760
every tune. Kyle Ridson says it
happened in a hotel elevator a few weeks

3006
03:03:00.799 --> 03:03:01.920
ago, just before one of his
shows in a Canadian City. It was

3007
03:03:01.920 --> 03:03:07.280
a random encounter and they were able
to converse briefly. Mister Raff was wearing

3008
03:03:07.319 --> 03:03:11.319
a shirt at the time and seemed
like a genuinely nice persons. All right,

3009
03:03:11.520 --> 03:03:16.559
riff Raff sidings, yea with shirt. Uh, you know turf like

3010
03:03:16.760 --> 03:03:20.639
regional turf wars. And and then
this Jason writes in It says, as

3011
03:03:20.719 --> 03:03:26.000
a former Lucas Arts employee, I
just wanted to confirm that there is no

3012
03:03:26.120 --> 03:03:31.159
way the phantom shitter it was actually
a malfunctioning toilet, contrary to Viney's theory

3013
03:03:31.079 --> 03:03:33.840
laying. I don't know if you
heard about this. Someone was apparently messing

3014
03:03:33.959 --> 03:03:39.959
up the Lucas Arts bathroom real bad. Near the end, someone former employee

3015
03:03:39.040 --> 03:03:41.559
wrote in and talked about this was
two weeks ago. That's a couple of

3016
03:03:41.559 --> 03:03:43.479
weeks ago. Yeah, yeah,
I heard this. Yeah, Okay,

3017
03:03:43.760 --> 03:03:46.600
was the it was his name,
They had a name for him. It's

3018
03:03:46.600 --> 03:03:54.040
like the lucasartshit bandit has this Ever, I think it's Geo. That's probably.

3019
03:03:54.239 --> 03:03:58.559
Yeah. We were thinking maybe it
was George. Uh. This was

3020
03:03:58.600 --> 03:04:01.719
definitely the work of a sick individual. Though there have been theories of copycat

3021
03:04:01.840 --> 03:04:05.760
shitters over the years. There was
also the lesser known booger Bandit, who

3022
03:04:05.799 --> 03:04:09.440
would pick his nose and wipe what
he found on the other underside of his

3023
03:04:09.559 --> 03:04:13.440
desk. After this happened two or
three times, facilities finally decided to check

3024
03:04:13.479 --> 03:04:16.319
who sat at these desks, and
the person was caught. The person was

3025
03:04:16.360 --> 03:04:18.799
not fired, nor did he have
to scrape the underside of the desks,

3026
03:04:18.079 --> 03:04:22.959
which was apparently a disgusting process.
So I'm gonna up the disgusting bathroom talk.

3027
03:04:24.079 --> 03:04:26.479
Yeah, let's hear it. So
I want to hear about the disgusting

3028
03:04:26.520 --> 03:04:31.920
bathrooms of video game developers. So
we've got one of the original like guys

3029
03:04:31.959 --> 03:04:33.879
that start off the company with me. His names Nathan Mefford. He's been

3030
03:04:33.920 --> 03:04:37.239
the industry forever. He's done a
lot of East Coast stuff. He has

3031
03:04:37.280 --> 03:04:43.840
got a MicroProse bathroom story that will
curl your toes. All this other stuff.

3032
03:04:45.159 --> 03:04:48.719
This is child's play man, This
is fucking bush league. Oh yeah,

3033
03:04:48.719 --> 03:04:50.760
that's cute. Some guys smeared shit
on the wall. That's adorable,

3034
03:04:50.920 --> 03:04:54.840
dude. So we gotta get Nate
drunk and get him in here, okay,

3035
03:04:54.040 --> 03:04:56.440
and tell him tell the story.
Yeah, all right, Nate doesn't

3036
03:04:56.520 --> 03:04:58.600
like talking much, so it's gonna
be hard, but we'll figure it out.

3037
03:04:58.600 --> 03:05:01.479
We'll, you know, when you
get back, we'll get you on

3038
03:05:01.559 --> 03:05:05.200
a conference call or something, and
you can just brought him. I won't

3039
03:05:05.239 --> 03:05:07.479
tell him you're there. I won't
tell him you're there, like Nate tell

3040
03:05:07.559 --> 03:05:13.920
me that classic micropros banger. What
could be worse than We're just extrement all

3041
03:05:13.959 --> 03:05:18.760
over the walls. I'm all right, that rainy day. You'll never guess

3042
03:05:18.799 --> 03:05:24.920
it's it's it is. It's staggering. What yeah, yeah, I don't

3043
03:05:24.920 --> 03:05:28.719
know. I don't know. Uh, my imagination is reeling. I know.

3044
03:05:31.280 --> 03:05:33.479
Anonymous right Sena says I worked at
an awful job years ago where I

3045
03:05:33.559 --> 03:05:37.360
was buried in a basement office with
one other dude and a room full of

3046
03:05:37.399 --> 03:05:39.920
server racks. The worst part of
this job is right next to the office

3047
03:05:39.000 --> 03:05:43.200
was a bathroom typically used by people
to take dumps, as it was basically

3048
03:05:43.239 --> 03:05:46.040
hidden two floors down from the main
area of the building and the more public

3049
03:05:46.079 --> 03:05:48.120
bathrooms. Arvests had no door,
and every time someone came down to take

3050
03:05:48.120 --> 03:05:50.200
a ship, we have to deal
with a lingering smell, needless to say,

3051
03:05:50.479 --> 03:05:54.040
and our super hot underground room full
of servers and computers. It was

3052
03:05:54.159 --> 03:05:56.879
nauseating. Without fail, one of
our managers would come down and leave the

3053
03:05:56.920 --> 03:06:00.920
most heinous. I'm just, I
just, I'm tired of saying the words

3054
03:06:00.959 --> 03:06:03.680
shit. It's just, it's just
now we're really talking about it. It's

3055
03:06:03.719 --> 03:06:09.159
just it's just seven am Wednesdays and
Saturdays. Out of revenge, I begin

3056
03:06:09.239 --> 03:06:13.200
to hit that bathroom at six am
on Wednesdays and Saturdays with reckless, fucking

3057
03:06:13.239 --> 03:06:16.559
abandon. I went so far as
to drink and eat specific things the night

3058
03:06:16.600 --> 03:06:18.680
before to make as much of a
mess as possible. For a while,

3059
03:06:18.719 --> 03:06:22.760
it was both funny and gratifying to
hear this guy lamented the loss of his

3060
03:06:22.840 --> 03:06:26.920
favorite spot, and after about a
month he stopped showing up, as did

3061
03:06:26.000 --> 03:06:30.600
most people. These incidents were a
hot topic for a while that eventually it

3062
03:06:30.760 --> 03:06:33.200
made me incredibly ashamed whenever someone talked
about it. It was kind of like

3063
03:06:33.280 --> 03:06:39.399
the Telltale Heart, except with shitting
noises. I gave my two weeks notice

3064
03:06:39.440 --> 03:06:43.040
a few weeks later and cut off
all contact with the people I knew about

3065
03:06:43.479 --> 03:06:46.239
this feeling. They knew it was
me. This was my greatest shame,

3066
03:06:46.479 --> 03:06:52.399
but perhaps my greatest triumph. That
was that's dedication. I'm just gonna paraphrase

3067
03:06:52.479 --> 03:06:56.760
this next one. Ryan from Virginia
wrote in to say that perhaps the one

3068
03:06:56.799 --> 03:07:01.280
about finding poop on the front and
underside of a bilet bowl, it could

3069
03:07:01.319 --> 03:07:05.799
be someone with an austomy situation,
like a cost to me having to empty

3070
03:07:05.840 --> 03:07:09.399
it and you're supposed to, you
know, kind of sit down empty a

3071
03:07:09.479 --> 03:07:11.639
very specific way. But you know, sometimes maybe people cut a corner and

3072
03:07:13.200 --> 03:07:20.239
something happens there. I don't know, it is possible John Drake's workplace shitter

3073
03:07:20.520 --> 03:07:24.440
wasn't oustimate, So and that is
somebody with a clastomy bag, yeah,

3074
03:07:24.879 --> 03:07:28.719
or another type of situation like a
colostomy bag, or I guess they're you

3075
03:07:28.760 --> 03:07:31.879
know, some other gastro intestinal disease. It might lead to a situation like

3076
03:07:31.920 --> 03:07:39.079
that. Yeah. Sure, So
Anonymous rights in It's at this point like

3077
03:07:39.159 --> 03:07:41.360
I was just I was digging through
so many emails. I didn't even take

3078
03:07:41.399 --> 03:07:45.159
full emails anymore. These last couple
were just little bits that I thought,

3079
03:07:45.200 --> 03:07:48.159
like, this is this is maybe
something Anonymous rights in It says, what

3080
03:07:48.239 --> 03:07:50.280
are the following things on this list
have in common? Loaves of bread,

3081
03:07:52.120 --> 03:07:56.440
cake, live fish, open and
unopened cans of beans, uncooked steak,

3082
03:07:58.079 --> 03:08:01.799
big Max with fries, sick at
butts, lots of blood, maggots,

3083
03:08:03.280 --> 03:08:07.840
a cantaloup size catfish head, condoms
both male and female, A laptop,

3084
03:08:09.319 --> 03:08:13.319
bills of various denominations, five tens
and a twenty. What are those things

3085
03:08:13.399 --> 03:08:16.399
have in common? Fund in toilet? All of these things are more are

3086
03:08:16.479 --> 03:08:24.399
things I found in toilet bowls as
a janitor. Laptop A laptop that's someone

3087
03:08:24.520 --> 03:08:28.280
quitting a fucking job, or that's
like a real bad executive trying to hide

3088
03:08:28.280 --> 03:08:31.239
information. Yeah, I gotta flust
this ship. I'll never find it there.

3089
03:08:33.040 --> 03:08:37.319
And our last bit for this week, an elementary school teacher wrote in,

3090
03:08:37.600 --> 03:08:41.600
and this is just the one sentence
I took. Being elementary school teachers,

3091
03:08:43.000 --> 03:08:48.239
we drink a lot. And that's
gonna do it. For emails,

3092
03:08:48.280 --> 03:08:54.280
BombCast at giant bomb dot com is
the place to ride in. Just get

3093
03:08:54.319 --> 03:08:58.120
it off your chest, let's hear
it. I don't know that I can

3094
03:08:58.200 --> 03:09:03.040
handle any more ship stories unless they
are of an unbelievably extravagant nature. Yeah,

3095
03:09:03.159 --> 03:09:07.959
and I feel like we've we've solved
the beef with the Australian footwear by

3096
03:09:07.239 --> 03:09:11.520
all rallying around. At least you're
wearing something on your feet. Yeah,

3097
03:09:11.719 --> 03:09:18.479
exactly like this barefoot thing I think
is a totally that's disgusting. Barefoot found,

3098
03:09:18.559 --> 03:09:22.879
common ground found the real monsters.
Yeah, yeah, if you're if

3099
03:09:22.879 --> 03:09:26.639
you're barefoot in Australia, that's actually
I want to hear from you, Barefoot

3100
03:09:26.680 --> 03:09:33.600
in Australia here signed Barefoot in Australia
time listener. Yeah, I never thought

3101
03:09:33.639 --> 03:09:39.200
this would happen to me. You
finally caught me. You finally caught me.

3102
03:09:39.079 --> 03:09:43.159
Thanks for Patrick for coming and hanging
out. Drew will be back next

3103
03:09:43.239 --> 03:09:46.280
week, and thanks for Dave Lange
for coming through. Thank you it was

3104
03:09:46.319 --> 03:09:48.639
fun. Yeah, what's what's the
rest of your week? Look like you're

3105
03:09:48.639 --> 03:09:52.239
out here for g DC. Are
you either type of guy you go see

3106
03:09:52.280 --> 03:09:56.040
talks? Are you just literally like
shaking hands meeting people? Yeah? I

3107
03:09:56.120 --> 03:10:00.319
don't have a pass. I just
have a lot of meetings, lots of

3108
03:10:00.520 --> 03:10:03.079
like, hey we've got let's talk
about maybe the next thing we'll do when

3109
03:10:03.079 --> 03:10:05.719
we're done with this thing, or
just meeting new people or whatever it is.

3110
03:10:05.840 --> 03:10:09.879
So lots and lots of meetings.
That's like the constant hustle, right,

3111
03:10:09.280 --> 03:10:13.040
you gotta you gotta get out there
and make sure you're you're consistently lining

3112
03:10:13.159 --> 03:10:16.959
up work. Yeah. I think
like it's like we're we're never it's like

3113
03:10:16.959 --> 03:10:18.479
a strategic decision we do. We're
never gonna be a studio, Like we're

3114
03:10:18.520 --> 03:10:20.959
seventy of us now, We're never
gonna work on like one game. He

3115
03:10:22.079 --> 03:10:24.879
guys, really seventy across the two
places. Yeah, holy crap, good

3116
03:10:24.920 --> 03:10:28.280
for you. Yeah it's Orlando and
Chicago, right, so and then one

3117
03:10:28.319 --> 03:10:31.559
man in Austin, one man and
one man here. Oh yeah, okay,

3118
03:10:31.680 --> 03:10:33.760
yeah, but uh yeah, So
we're never gonna be someone that like

3119
03:10:33.840 --> 03:10:37.360
pushes all in those people doing one
thing at a time, because like if

3120
03:10:37.399 --> 03:10:39.639
that project is canceled, then we're
out of business. Yeah. So we're

3121
03:10:39.639 --> 03:10:43.760
always doing lots and lots of littler
things, and that means I'm always fucking

3122
03:10:43.799 --> 03:10:46.319
on the road to try and write. We'll not fucking on the road,

3123
03:10:46.719 --> 03:10:50.559
that would be awesome, yeah,
uh instead of an import in the storm,

3124
03:10:50.680 --> 03:10:54.600
Yeah, import to storm you see
sun. But yeah, so lots

3125
03:10:54.639 --> 03:10:56.440
of lots of that stuff. Yeah. Cool. Well, best of luck

3126
03:10:56.479 --> 03:10:58.319
out there. But well, what's
the general impression. I mean, you

3127
03:10:58.360 --> 03:11:01.520
know, you don't even really speak
for yourself. What whatever you're out there

3128
03:11:01.559 --> 03:11:05.120
talking to a lot of people,
is the game? Is everything everything going

3129
03:11:05.200 --> 03:11:07.680
well, super super upbeat. Yeah, that's that was the impression I got

3130
03:11:07.719 --> 03:11:09.239
coming out of Dice, is that
there were deals getting made, money being

3131
03:11:09.280 --> 03:11:13.399
spent, Like every everybody seemed like
all this nonsense about like, oh,

3132
03:11:13.559 --> 03:11:16.000
console numbers are down, it's all
I don't know where these people are getting

3133
03:11:16.000 --> 03:11:18.840
their numbers from. They're insane.
It's great, it's really really good.

3134
03:11:20.440 --> 03:11:24.000
Well good to hear. Yes,
So yeah, get out there and line

3135
03:11:24.040 --> 03:11:28.479
up some work and best of luck, and we'll be around GDC doing all

3136
03:11:28.520 --> 03:11:31.600
kinds of stuff. We'll be getting
some people through here from interviews from late

3137
03:11:31.680 --> 03:11:35.559
night live shows that sort of thing, and uh yeah, check out the

3138
03:11:35.600 --> 03:12:01.440
site for more and we'll see you
next week. Wrong mouse this mouse, Fine Fie