1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:45,719 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:45,759 --> 00:00:51,439 I'm Bill Thomas. Welcome to another episode of Mind Over Murder. And we 11 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:57,799 would like to start by thanking you all so very much for your enthusiastic response 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,679 to the fact that we have a live show. Come. Hey, this 13 00:01:00,759 --> 00:01:04,920 is a first. We've never done this before. Now, to be fair, 14 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,439 we kind of started in the middle of a pandemic, so it's never 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,879 really been possible tell the people all about it Kristin Dilly. On April fifteenth, 16 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,599 which does happen to be tax Day for anybody who has not yet filed 17 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:22,439 their taxes, we are going to be at the Yorktown Public Library and we 18 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:27,159 will be offering a live Mind Over Murder true crime podcasting event from six to 19 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,040 eight. We will be in their wonderful facility and we will be talking about 20 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:37,120 the Colonial Parkway murders Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, all of the recent developments in 21 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:40,359 that case over the last couple of months. You'll get to see the two 22 00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:44,879 of us live and in person. You also get to meet Joyce Call Canada, 23 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:49,719 sister of Keith Call and a wonderful advocate in her own right, and 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,840 ask us questions live which will end up on the air for anybody who is 25 00:01:53,879 --> 00:01:59,079 not able to make it to the York Anny Public Library. We are as 26 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,680 a matter of fact, to be recording this just like we would any other 27 00:02:01,719 --> 00:02:07,840 podcasting event, and we will be able to send that to you as a 28 00:02:07,879 --> 00:02:10,960 weekly pod, So if you cannot make it, never fear you will be 29 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,520 able to hear all of the information that we are presenting on that evening once 30 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:21,759 it comes to you on your podcast app of choice. You sound more excited 31 00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:27,039 about this than almost anything. I'm really looking forward to a night of public 32 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,280 speaking after I do a whole day's worth of public speaking with high schoolers. 33 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,919 We're going to have a great it's gonna be a lot of fun. We're 34 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:38,400 going to have a great time. We were asked on one of our social 35 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:44,599 media pages, mind Over Murder on Facebook or Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook. 36 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,719 Someone asked us if they needed to provide their questions in advance, which we 37 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,520 do when we're recording, and ask me anything. In this example, I 38 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,199 think we're going to just go for it and take questions right there in the 39 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,159 room. Yeah. I believe that your prior descriptor of it last episode was 40 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,439 free wheeling discussion. Be careful what you ask for. That's probably exactly what 41 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:10,400 you're going to get. Let's go with free wheeling. That's going to be 42 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,120 great. We're very much appreciative of all the support. People have been very 43 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:19,919 excited about it. If you don't make it to April fifteenth, then you 44 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,080 have a second shot, different content on May thirteenth, which is four weeks 45 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:29,919 later, which is Kristin Dilly's forty third birthday and more of a celebration than 46 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,199 text day exactly, and I expect not only a rousing round of applause, 47 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,919 but possibly even a rousing chorus of Happy birthday. Yeah, we could make 48 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,280 plans for that excellent. Oh can I request like a cake also, and 49 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:46,199 maybe a mariachi band and some sparklers and things like that. Since we're fulfilling 50 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,719 all of my requests now, this means we need a sheet cake that's big 51 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,639 enough for ninety people or more. I don't know where you would find such 52 00:03:55,639 --> 00:04:00,840 a thing, although Publix comes to mind. You no needs that much cake. 53 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:04,280 That's a disaster in the making, Okay, But I would like it 54 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:10,360 noted that after a long day of teaching high schoolers, I'm going to spend 55 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,240 the evening with you lovely people. And then the very next day I have 56 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:17,680 to get up and get breakfast for my AP students will be taking their AP 57 00:04:17,879 --> 00:04:21,279 exam that day. It's going to be a busy forty eight hours. There 58 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,120 is getting breakfast for the AP students tradition. It's something that I do for 59 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:30,439 my kids, yes, so that they can come down to my room and 60 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:33,600 grab a muffin or a banana or something before they head upstairs. My colleagues 61 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,319 who also teach AP, we all make goodie bags for our kids where we 62 00:04:38,399 --> 00:04:42,360 give them pens and pencils and little sweet treats and we throw in stickers and 63 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,639 stuff like that. And so they take their goodie bag and they take their 64 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:47,639 breakfast, and they go upstairs, and then they write essays for four hours 65 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,519 and do good work. We hope, and we surely hope and make their 66 00:04:53,519 --> 00:04:58,000 teachers proud. Oh, I hope that too, very much. This idea, 67 00:04:58,079 --> 00:05:01,639 the sheet cake is looking bad and better because then we could give leftover 68 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:08,000 cake to the AP students the next day. I should absolutely bring in half 69 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,600 a sheet cake for my AP kids and stay come downstairs and grab cake for 70 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:15,680 breakfast so you can be as sugared and caffeinated as possible before you sit down 71 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,480 for a four hour test session to answer multiple choice questions and write for essays. 72 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,399 That's a great idea. We should roll with that. Okay, all 73 00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:29,519 right, we'll work on that perfect. Bill. You brought a really interesting 74 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,480 topic to the table today. And as sometimes happens when Bill and I are 75 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,000 choosing topics to talk about, it starts with one or the other of us 76 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,959 sending a link to an article, for example, and saying, oh, 77 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,920 have you read this? And so Bill sent this to me a couple of 78 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,959 days ago, and there wasn't even an ooh have you read this? It 79 00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:47,000 was just a link and I clicked on it. I'm reading through it, 80 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,639 and I'm reading through it and I'm like, this is interesting. I'm not 81 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:54,600 sure why I care about this until about that last paragraph and it said Bill 82 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,879 Thomas and it was a quote from my partner, and I was like, 83 00:05:56,959 --> 00:05:59,720 oh, this is why I care about this. Okay. So I had 84 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,319 to go read it a second time and then figure out, Okay, this 85 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,120 is why Bill sent this. Jimmy, these are the issues we're getting into. 86 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,639 So Bill tell us the article that kind of kicked this off for you 87 00:06:10,959 --> 00:06:15,319 and introduce what we're talking about today. The article that I sent, which 88 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,480 will include in the show notes here, is from the Boston Globe. It's 89 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:28,319 written by a reporter named Aiden Ryan. The headline is how blogger Aiden Carney 90 00:06:28,959 --> 00:06:33,759 first name same as the author Carney is the last name, aka turtle Boy, 91 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:41,000 turned the Karen Reid case into a true crime spectacle. And so we'll 92 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,720 get into the details of the Karen Reid case, which is currently pending up 93 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:49,920 in Massachusetts. The reporter had reached out to me and asked me if I 94 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,600 was following the case, and I said yes to some extent, and this 95 00:06:54,920 --> 00:07:01,560 blogger and podcaster who sees himself as an advocate named Aiden Carney has really inserted 96 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,000 himself into this Karen Reid case to a level like I've never seen before. 97 00:07:06,439 --> 00:07:12,000 They wanted me to comment on it, and then, interestingly, they also 98 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:18,279 asked Julie Murray, our friend and fellow sibling advocate Moramari's sister. She also 99 00:07:18,399 --> 00:07:24,720 commented, and interestingly, the comments from us were at the end of the 100 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:29,079 article, so they gave us the last word, which I thought was nice. 101 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:31,600 Yeah, I thought so too. I've been following this Karen Reid case 102 00:07:31,639 --> 00:07:39,279 and I have been completely baffled by the extent to which this blogger and podcaster 103 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:44,839 Aidan Carney turtle boy. One of the things I did say to the reporter, 104 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:47,839 which didn't end up in the Boston Globe, was what grown man calls 105 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,680 himself turtleboy. Yeah, yeah, that was definitely my very first thought. 106 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:58,759 There is an origin story there which we can get into a bit. It's 107 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:05,480 a very string situation. This is a murder case and Karen Reid is charged 108 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,439 with murdering her boyfriend, so it's quite a serious situation. But then this 109 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:16,040 guy, Turtle Boy, gets involved and is such a bizarre, kind of 110 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:24,079 obnoxious, self serving presence who claims to be an advocate for Karen Reid. 111 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:30,600 He's just stirring up all of this. I'm trying to come up with a 112 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,759 non obscene way of putting this soup muck muck. Yeah, let's go with 113 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,039 Mike muckraker. Yeah, he's a muckraker for sure. It's a very strange 114 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,919 story. So I thought it was worth us perhaps spending some time talking about 115 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,440 it. This case is getting a lot of play in Boston and in New 116 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,440 England. It'll be fascinating to see where this all goes, because, as 117 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,279 you just said, this case is much more of a Northeast case than anything 118 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,440 else. Is not familiar with the name Karen Reid, and I have a 119 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,320 feeling there are going to be some of our listeners who are not either. 120 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,960 So let's go ahead and start at the top here with the very basic question 121 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,600 who is Karen Reid and what is she charged with? Again, will include 122 00:09:13,639 --> 00:09:18,279 some articles in our show notes that'll help our listeners come up to speed. 123 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,799 Here are the basics. Karen Reid is a forty three year old woman. 124 00:09:22,919 --> 00:09:28,559 She lives in Mansfield, Massachusetts, which is outside Boston, and she is 125 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:35,399 currently charged with the murder and it could be dropped down to lesser charges, 126 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:41,240 but she's charged with the second degree murder and manslaughter while operating under the influence. 127 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,639 And we're talking about seriously under the influence and leaving the scene of an 128 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:52,279 accident resulting in personal injury or death. And the person that was killed in 129 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,559 this accident, i'll call it is a Boston police officer. His name is 130 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:03,279 John O'Keefe and he lives in a town outside of Boston. That town is 131 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:11,360 called Canton, Massachusetts. And so ms Reid is charged with striking Officer O'Keefe 132 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:16,960 with her SUV while the two of them were really on a bender. This 133 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:22,960 was a night of bar hopping back in January twenty twenty two. The two 134 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:28,639 of them were both seriously impaired. I've seen articles about just how much alcohol 135 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,480 was consumed. The two of them are drunk out of their minds and should 136 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,720 not have been operating motor vehicles. Obvious, and she's charged with accidentally they 137 00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:45,840 believe, striking O'Keefe with her SUV and leaving him for dead outside the home 138 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:52,879 of mutual friends of theirs driving home and again, these people are blind drunk, 139 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,039 so they shouldn't be operating motor vehicles at all. He ends up dying 140 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,559 in a snowbank, and he's not discuss until the following morning, sometime around 141 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,759 six am. He has died as a result of his injuries and freezing to 142 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:11,200 death on this January night in the middle of a blizzard. What do we 143 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:16,240 know about Karen Reid's boyfriend, John O'Keeffe, other than the fact that he 144 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,960 is a Boston police officer. What else do we know about their relationship? 145 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,559 If anything, the relationship does not sound like a good one. There is 146 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:31,720 a lot of conflict between the two and there's accusations of infidelity. Social media 147 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:39,399 plays a significant part, as do cell phone records, texts and other exchanges 148 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:46,159 of messages. For whatever reason, likely involving him being involved with another woman, 149 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,000 there is significant friction between the two people, Karen Reid and John O'Keeffe. 150 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:58,960 They have located texts and other messages that indicate that she is extremely unhappy 151 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,279 be with him. She accuses him of sleeping with another woman. There's a 152 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,759 history going on there that is ugly and personal. It does not sound like 153 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:16,120 an ideal relationship or a very good situation either way. Does the contentious nature 154 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:20,360 of their relationship have anything to do with the fact that she has been charged 155 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:26,200 with murder as opposed to like reckless endangerment or something like that. Because it 156 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,000 could be an accident, As you said, they were both probably pretty drunk. 157 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,120 How do we know that it wasn't just an accident that she accidentally ran 158 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,320 him over when she should not have been driving. What are the mitigating factors 159 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,960 here? There's a couple of things going on. The case has not actually 160 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,559 gone to trial yet, although it's expected to go to trial in April, 161 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:54,840 so we don't know exactly what the prosecutors are going to allege. It appears 162 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:01,039 this is being presented as an accident. There are some mitigating actors in that 163 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:07,919 friends of theirs have indicated that the defendant, Karen Reid, had phone conversations 164 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:13,000 with, for example, a woman named Carrie Roberts and her husband. Carrie 165 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:20,279 Roberts' husband was a friend of Officer O'Keeffe's she supposedly had a phone call with 166 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:28,039 Karen Reid. Karen was described as hysterical and she screamed John's dead and then 167 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:33,120 hung up the phone, And this would have been about an hour before they 168 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:41,159 discovered O'Keeffe's body frozen to death in this snowbank. It appears that the defendant 169 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,080 was really upset at the same time, she appears to also have knowledge of 170 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,279 the fact that John O'Keeffe had been killed, and she hung up the phone. 171 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,960 Later on, another witness, Jennifer McCabe, went to the house in 172 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,639 Canton, Massachusetts, to search for O'Keeffe, and Karen Reid supposedly said out 173 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,320 loud she quote wondered out loud whether she could have hit O'Keefe with her car, 174 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:11,519 and she mentioned that she had a crack in her tail light, and 175 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:18,840 this ends up being important as well from an evidence perspective. Around six o'clock 176 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:24,799 in the morning, Reads spots O'Keeffe's body in the snow bank in front of 177 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:28,600 this residence, and then supposedly she told paramedics who arrived on scene a short 178 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,679 while later, I hit him. I hit him in a way that indicated 179 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:39,240 that she was upset about this, but you can see how she's saying things 180 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:46,000 that would appear to confirm the fact that she struck him while driving her SUV 181 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:52,720 in a highly impaired state. So it sounds though, from reading the stories, 182 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,279 and there have been so many of them, that it is a little 183 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,320 hard to keep track of all of this for somebody who's coming in to this 184 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:05,679 blind. I have no real cognizance of this story. I was trying frantically 185 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,840 to play a little bit of catch up on this case, and it is 186 00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:11,440 just it is twisty and turning, and there's a lot going on. It 187 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:18,440 sounds like Karen Reid's legal team has an alternative theory for how Officer O'Keeffe died 188 00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:24,559 that does not involve the accidental striking of Officer O'Keeffe with Karen Reid's car. 189 00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:28,120 Can you get into that alternative theory? I can, and this guy, 190 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:35,480 Turtle Boy Aiden Carney is one of the biggest proponents of these alternative theories. 191 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:41,879 The lawyers for Karen Reid are claiming that she's been framed and that O'Keefe was 192 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:46,799 actually beaten to death inside the home in Canton where his body was found this 193 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:50,840 is not his home, but the home of a friend of his, a 194 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:54,799 man named Brian Albert, who's also a Boston Police officer. So there's a 195 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,840 lot of cops in the mix here. They're saying that this is all a 196 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,840 vast conspiracy among a group of law enforcement officers, including Boston Police, and 197 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:11,080 then they feel that there's a cover up involving the State police as well. 198 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,919 The whole thing gets very complicated and convoluted. They're claiming that this whole thing 199 00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:22,879 is a cover up, that O'Keefe was actually beaten by fellow officers and people 200 00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:26,320 that would supposedly be friends of his, and then the body is dumped outside 201 00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:32,000 Brian Albert's home, which is where he's found the following morning. The whole 202 00:16:32,039 --> 00:16:37,360 thing seems like a real stretch. Yeah, My first question when anybody mentions 203 00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:42,480 a conspiracy is, okay, why it sounds very convoluted, very much a 204 00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:47,519 stretch. Why would these people, some of them his colleagues and arms, 205 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:52,200 why would they beat Officer O'Keefe to death? And then why make it look 206 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,519 like Karen is the person responsible. I don't understand. Is there any of 207 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:00,159 that, you know, come up at all? Or well again, I've 208 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:07,200 not seen any kind of adequate explanation for why they're claiming that Officer Albert and 209 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,200 these other officers killed O'Keefe. The whole thing seems like a real bizarre claim, 210 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,599 and they are going on at some length. This is the defense team 211 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:25,480 claiming that this conspiracy just extends further and further out, involving Massachusetts State Police 212 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:29,599 and other law enforcement agencies. The whole thing is just crazy. And of 213 00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:33,640 course in the middle of all this guy Turtle Boy Aiden Carney. He's blogging 214 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:41,359 about this case. He is issuing podcasts. He has been charged with and 215 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:48,559 even jailed for witness intimidation in this case. He has gone after people who 216 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:55,160 are probably going to be called as witnesses for the prosecution. He's made attempts 217 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:02,599 to discredit them. He's shown up at people's kids' sports events. He's made 218 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:11,279 threatening remarks. He does these highly profane, really unhinged podcasts and other public 219 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,240 pronouncements. The whole thing is as bizarre as anything I've ever heard of, 220 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,759 which is why the Boston Globe wanted Julie Murray and I to both comment about 221 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:29,160 this case independently. This seems to fit as a great example of where true 222 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,480 crime podcasting and advocacy and journalism, and I'll put air quotes around both of 223 00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:40,039 those words, as you should. People are saying. This is a classic 224 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,640 example of advocates who are completely out of control, who feel that they can 225 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,599 do or say anything in defense of the person they feel is innocent. That 226 00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:57,640 is Karen read So this whole Turtle Boy debacle, he's been dragged before the 227 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:03,400 courts several times times and ended up actually incarcerated. He's currently in jail at 228 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,880 the moment. Let's go back just one step further, because again, I'm 229 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,759 behind all of this, whereas you're right on top of it. How does 230 00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:17,839 this guy even learn about Karen Reid's case? Why does he have a vested 231 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,519 interest in her? Did he have such a flaming sense of injustice that he 232 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:26,240 immediately decided to leap to her rescue? I really would like to know the 233 00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:32,839 backstory here on how Aiden Kearney decided, you know what, that's my case, 234 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,920 the one that I'm going to hang my hat on. How did that 235 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,319 even come about? He's done this several times before. He gets involved in 236 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:48,480 cases and he issues these very strongly worded pronouncements. He's very big on being 237 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,599 a provocateur on his podcast and in his blogs. I don't know that I'm 238 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:59,079 really clear at the moment on how they met. The two of them, 239 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:07,759 Karen Reid and Aiden Carney have had extensive and really pretty unusual levels of communication. 240 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:15,680 He's now being charged with speaking to her over two hundred times for at 241 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:22,440 least a forty hour period. They have spoken over and over again. There 242 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,599 are now court documents that have been produced that allege that Karen Reid sent all 243 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:33,759 sorts of what the court claims would be confidential information about the case to him. 244 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,200 So he's gone all in for her. He says he'll stake his reputation, 245 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,799 which is not very good to start with, on the fact that Karen 246 00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:48,319 Reid is innocent. It's got a lot of very strange twists and turns. 247 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:56,359 He's got thousands of people following his blog and his podcast. They've actually had 248 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:03,319 protests outside the court room. There's a freak Karen Reid movement, which he 249 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:08,039 is of course right there in the middle of. And he has created all 250 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:14,000 sorts of freak Karen Reid merchandise with of course the Turtle Boy logo on it, 251 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,680 available for sale on his website claims that the proceeds from the sale of 252 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,319 these items are going to go to a fund for Karen Reid's legal defense, 253 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,680 So it's quite something. The whole thing is incredibly odd and off putting. 254 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,400 There's some effort on the part of Reid and Carnie to keep their relationship private, 255 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,920 but it has now come out that they've had this extensive amount of contact, 256 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:45,240 and they also used private messaging apps including Signal and others, almost like 257 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:51,680 they were trying to keep their communication a secret, but they've been much less 258 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,160 than successful in that regard. So I'll play devil's advocate for a second, 259 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,400 because I think that they're probably going to be people who have the same question. 260 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,799 She does have the right to speak to just about anybody that she wants 261 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,960 to. Why is it problematic that she's talking to him? Is it the 262 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:11,519 nature of what she's saying, is it the frequency, or is it all 263 00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:15,039 of the above. Let's just break it down for our listeners to better understand 264 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,599 why it's such a problem that she and he are communicating as often as they 265 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,799 are. The court is now claiming that she has been provided with documents by 266 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:27,400 the prosecution in order to prepare her defense, and that she has then taken 267 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,160 these documents which should have remained confidential. These would include things that you and 268 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,920 I are very familiar with from the Colonial Parkway murders, crime scene photos, 269 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:44,839 autopsy photos, other things. And remember there's a victim here, Officer O'Keefe. 270 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:51,240 These are often featuring him, for instance, pictures of his autopsy or 271 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,359 pictures of his body lying in the snow bank. The prosecution says that, 272 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:03,680 of course Karen Reid is entitled to the documents and files and photographs, as 273 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:10,400 are her defense team. But how is this blogger guy with a history of 274 00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:18,000 harassing people and inappropriate behavior, how is he able to access these documents. 275 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,400 I do agree with your point, kristin that Karen Reid has every right to 276 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,279 talk to anybody that she wants to in preparing a vigorous defense for herself. 277 00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:33,200 But is she crossing a line when she's allowing people who are not partied to 278 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:40,559 this lawsuit access to crime scene photos and autopsy photos and all sorts of additional 279 00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:45,200 information, which is really peeling back the layers into John O'Keefe's life in a 280 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240 way that might not really be fair to him. As a crime victim. 281 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,079 You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from 282 00:23:53,119 --> 00:24:11,039 our sponsors, We're back here at Mind over Murder. My biggest concern, 283 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:15,720 as it relates to all of us podcasters' advocates, ethics and true crime, 284 00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:21,720 is when you have someone like Aiden Carney. I'm sorry, I just cannot 285 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,680 call him turtle boy. That is patently ridiculous. He makes the rest of 286 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:30,559 us look bad. He is the sort of person that I'm picturing when the 287 00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:34,839 FBI is sitting there bringing their hands about the fact that you and I have 288 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,880 a podcast, I think that they're worried we're going to do the same thing 289 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,799 he is. I think they're worried that we're going to insert ourselves in appropriately, 290 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,720 that we're going to contaminate jury pools, that we are going to be 291 00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:55,279 sharing information that should not be shared. I picture them looking at us and 292 00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:59,400 seeing us doing the same thing that this guy is doing. I get that 293 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,200 that's a I think that's a concern, But I think when the FBI is 294 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,880 getting its blood pressure up about the fact that Bill Thomas has a podcast, 295 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,279 oh no, I pictured them thinking that you're going to go is off the 296 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,240 rails. As this guy has gone, which isn't true. Of course, 297 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,160 you're not going to go off the rails like this guy. I bet that's 298 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,440 one of the concerns that they have. Do you feel like that's a fair 299 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,079 assessment or am I maybe not being polite enough to the FBI on this point. 300 00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:29,759 Heaven forbid for me to ever defend the FBI, so I probably won't. 301 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:40,039 But Aiden Carney has no role here except the one he inserted himself into. 302 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:45,359 I guess at my own defense, I haven't threatened witnesses. I haven't 303 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:52,400 attended potential witnesses sporting events and yelled at them. I haven't made threats. 304 00:25:53,079 --> 00:26:02,119 I haven't been jailed for witness intimidation and other unsafe reactivities. So I get 305 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,559 the fact that the FBI. And Hello to our friends at FBI headquarters to 306 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,640 listen to our podcast. Hello, good afternoon, good evening. I think 307 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,799 you're joining us. Thank you. We appreciate your support. Challenge the FBI. 308 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,519 If they think I've said something that's incorrect, tell me what it is 309 00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:23,480 and I'll correct it. But they don't so far, they haven't. Yeah, 310 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,960 they're not happy about the fact that we have a podcast called mind over 311 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:33,200 murder, and we talk about the Colonial Parkway murders in other cases, but 312 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:40,279 I don't think we've approached the level of vitriol and bad behavior that we're seeing 313 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,880 here with Aiden Carney. For what it's worth, by the way, speaking 314 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:51,000 of just a character or lack thereof, Carney's currently in jail actually for being 315 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,960 charged with assault and battery by a woman that he was dating. So he's 316 00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,000 got a bit of a history here as being a hot head and someone that 317 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:07,680 is often extremely abusive towards people with whom he disagrees. I don't think anything 318 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,039 like that is happening here in the Colonial Parkway murders. Some of his behavior 319 00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:17,119 is quite disturbing, and I think that law enforcement and the prosecutors are standing 320 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,839 on pretty firm ground in terms of the things that he's done and said are 321 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:25,480 crossing a line. I'm really curious why he thinks that's actually going to get 322 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:30,200 him answers in what universe is that behavior going to get you anything other than 323 00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:34,759 what it is currently getting you, which is jail time and potential legal trouble. 324 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,839 I've never understood people who behave that erratically with that much. I like 325 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,039 your word of vitriol from a couple of minutes ago. I don't understand people 326 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,000 who behave in that way. That is not going to get you anything. 327 00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:53,599 Unless he thinks that having dozens and dozens of people outside the courtroom wearing free 328 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,319 Karen Reid shirts and holding up signs to show support for her is somehow when 329 00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,519 from his lie, I guess from a pr standpoint, if you're him, 330 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,319 maybe it is. This is very interesting, So why ultimately did the Boston 331 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:14,920 Globe end up reaching out to you and Julie Murray. A number of experts 332 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,960 that they interview. These are college professors and other people that study social media, 333 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,880 have pointed out that they think that this Aiden Carney example in the Karen 334 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:32,480 Reid trial is a classic example of when true crime media goes off the rails. 335 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:40,039 Aiden Carney's behavior troubles these experts because they say that this is an example 336 00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:47,920 of when true crime media begins to be counterproductive and actually ends up damaging the 337 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:56,000 presentation of information that would allow for a fair and impartial jury to arrive at 338 00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:03,079 a decision in this Karen Reid trial, which is upcoming next month, and 339 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,400 they see this as an example of true crime media gone bad. And of 340 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,000 course we know this is very much of interest and of moment, because there 341 00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:18,920 have been so many examples recently of times when colleagues, ones that we know 342 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:23,079 and ones that we are only just peripherally aware of, have gone off the 343 00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:27,440 rails in their own way and has led to some irresponsible reporting and some very 344 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:32,680 upsetting moments for all of us in the true crime space. I'm glad that 345 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,319 they were able to reach out to you when, ultimately, because I had 346 00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:38,319 no idea that you had done this article until you sent it to me and 347 00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:41,119 it was in print, when did this person reach out to you? And 348 00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:45,240 what was your conversation with them? We actually talk quite a bit on background 349 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:51,319 the reporter aiden Ryan, and I explain what that means for anybody who doesn't 350 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:57,039 know. On background is when you are discussing something with a media person and 351 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:04,240 you want to speak plainly but not be quoted as saying such. You might 352 00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:10,960 also hear off the record or something like that. But that's what background is 353 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,960 on now. One of the things that a number of reporters have said to 354 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,960 me over the years in writing about the Colonial Parkway murders and covering the case 355 00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:22,039 is that I've been doing this a long time, and I did this professionally 356 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:30,519 before I got involved in the advocacy role that you and I have hopefully fulfilled 357 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,920 in the Colonial Parkway murders, specifically for my sister Kathy. I tend to 358 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:42,720 be pretty message disciplined. Now. I will speak plainly with reporters because I 359 00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:47,720 think it's important that they have a good understanding of what's happened, for example, 360 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,119 on the Colonial Parkway murders. At the same time, I want to 361 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,839 think carefully and craft my words so that when I do go on the record, 362 00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:00,599 that is, they may use quotes and they may say what so and 363 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:07,160 so actually said, I want to be careful that what I'm saying is accurate 364 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:15,319 and thoughtful and non distracting. We ended up talking several weeks before this article 365 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,119 ran, and I actually started to think that maybe they aren't going with the 366 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,000 story because I never heard anything from the reporter. But then one day the 367 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,119 reporters sent me a note with a link, and this story was contained and 368 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,839 Julie Murray and I were given the last word in the article. I'll actually 369 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,960 read you what I said. Yes, please let me just set this up 370 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:41,759 A little bit previous paragraph some other families who've had brushes with viral true crime 371 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,960 said they are watching the read case closely, deeply aware of the effect that 372 00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:52,240 the scrutiny can have on people who are still mourning a loved one. Quote. 373 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,640 There should be a serious, fact based investigation into the circumstances of how 374 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,079 this man died, said Bill Thomas, whose sister Kathy Thomas, was killed 375 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:06,640 in the Colonial Parkway murders in Virginia nearly forty years ago. The case has 376 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,079 been widely covered by news organizations, on TV and in true crime podcasts. 377 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,440 And then back to a quote quote, I'm not big on censorship at all, 378 00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:17,680 but I can't help but think, man, the world would be a 379 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,960 better place if this guy would put a sock in it. Thomas added, 380 00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:30,519 I'm still shocked that people buy this crap. Nice. I'm actually very interested 381 00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:32,799 before you get to Julia's quote, and I do want you to get to 382 00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:36,759 it. Did you tell him that you yourself were a true crime podcast. 383 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:38,119 Yeah, he knew that. He knew that, Okay. No, I 384 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,680 was just curious why he didn't put no, that's that's his choice. Okay. 385 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,079 I was curious why he didn't acknowledge that you yourself are one. It's 386 00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:52,440 interesting because Julie Murray comes up next. And remember Julie is also doing a 387 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,359 true crime podcast. Now, yes, Now, he and I had spent 388 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,960 a good deal of time on background. He had listened to Mind Over Murder, 389 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,359 which is how they found out about us, You and me. Oh 390 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:07,680 okay, and so he knew I was a true crime podcaster with you, 391 00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:10,279 and that we did a true crime podcast together. And by the time I 392 00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:15,119 spoke with him, he had definitely listened to Mind Over Murders, so he 393 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,079 knows all about us. But in their descriptor they didn't end up going with 394 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,079 that. Now, Julie Murray, who's recently added a true crime podcast to 395 00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:30,400 her to do list. She's calling her new podcast, which I think she's 396 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,000 done about eight episodes, called Media Pressure, which is quite well done, 397 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,240 and she's offering a lot of insight for her followers. So she wears the 398 00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:44,680 podcast hat now too. The story continues. Julie Murray, whose sister Maura 399 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:49,720 Marty disappeared in New Hampshire twenty years ago, said true crime writers should be 400 00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:54,880 more empathetic when covering cases. Quote, it's not like I can type some 401 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,039 stuff on the internet like turtle Boy, closed my laptop and go get dinner. 402 00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:06,839 Murray said, I carry this with me everywhere I go. And that's 403 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,800 actually the end of the story. So Aiden, Ryan from the Globe kind 404 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:17,159 of gave us the last word. So it's interesting that advocates like you and 405 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:23,360 me and like Julie Murray have actually found that podcasting can be a very good 406 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,519 mechanism for us to be able to talk about the case and talk about these 407 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,880 issues in the true crime space. I think it's actually a good platform for 408 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,719 us to have these discussions. At the same time, I can't help but 409 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,599 look at what this guy, Aiden Carney has done, and I think to 410 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,760 myself, I don't think this is really helpful. No, definitely not. 411 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,760 If you go to a place like Crime Con or the True Crime Podcast Fest 412 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,840 or any other true crime forward event, you're going to need a lot of 413 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,400 podcasters. And there are more of us who are attempting to do good, 414 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,559 solid, ethical work than there are people like Aiden Carney. Turn Boys such 415 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:14,760 a ridiculous name. I'm so sorry, and I'm glad that there are more 416 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,719 of us than there are of him. But it is the ones like him, 417 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,119 the bad apples that sort of spoil the whole entire barrel. And that 418 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:27,840 is why it is so important for people like us and Julie to speak out 419 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,119 and say, hey, this is not ourmo this is not what we do 420 00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:35,639 because this is not appropriate and we know it's not appropriate. Totally agreed. 421 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,239 And at the same time, when experts, like a number of the academics 422 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,559 that were quoted in some of these articles, they've highlighted the fact that what 423 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,320 this guy is doing, Aiden Carney, is actually a classic example of what 424 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,360 not to do, and that this, in their opinion, is not helping 425 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,400 Karen read It isn't helping move justice forward either. As we were saying, 426 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,039 there's a tragedy here, which is a terrible thing happened that night and John 427 00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:07,599 O'Keefe ended up deadness Snowbank as a result. Now he's shown exceptionally poor judgment 428 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:14,199 by drinking to great excess, as has his girlfriend Karen Reid. I think 429 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,639 this case needs to be treated very seriously. As I said in the Globe, 430 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:22,760 the way that Aden Carney is going about this, with this self centered, 431 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:30,199 sensationalistic, profane, endlessly self promotional approach, I don't think that's a 432 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,840 way to advocate on someone's behalf. He might feel that all's fair if this 433 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,320 gets Karen Reid found innocent or gets her to a reduced sentence or whatever, 434 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,960 maybe that's a win from his perspective. But it sure doesn't seem that way 435 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,079 to me. No, it does not seem that way to me either. 436 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,559 It is going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out. Karen 437 00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:54,400 Reid is due to go to trial when April sixteenth, I believe, is 438 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,480 the latest state, and as we hear more about that case, we will 439 00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:02,079 share more of it with our listeners. Yeah, we'll keep you posted. 440 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,320 It'll be very interesting to see where this all goes. Boy, they've thrown 441 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:13,000 up a lot of dust in this case and discredited a lot of people are 442 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:17,199 tried to So it'll be very interesting to see whether the prosecution can move forward 443 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,400 with a clean presentation of what they see as the facts, and the defense 444 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:29,760 team has just gone hog wilde claiming all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories. I 445 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,840 don't know if those things are going to hold up in court or not. 446 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:35,559 Yeah, I was reading some of the articles that you sent me earlier, 447 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:39,400 and I my head was just spinning at how much they are throwing against the 448 00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:44,559 wall to see if it will stick. There is so much to unpack, 449 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,400 but we will include links to all of those in our show notes, and 450 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,360 as more information becomes available on the Karen Reid trial, we will keep you 451 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:58,079 all updated as well. Any final thoughts from you, mister Thomas, I 452 00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:00,760 think I'm not going to buy a free care and read t shirt. I 453 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,639 don't think I will either, mainly because I do not want to give my 454 00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:09,960 money to turtle Boy. Now you find yourself calling him by his chosen name, 455 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,920 I can't bring myself to be snarky about it, although I really want 456 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,360 to be, Oh, feel free, I don't want. I don't want 457 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,199 our listeners to think that I have anything less than a sweet Southern lady's disposition. 458 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,239 But yeah, the snark is right there under the surface. It's bubbling 459 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:35,519 up. I think they've already figured that out. Although you've gotten off a 460 00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:39,119 couple of bless your hearts on different episodes of Mind of a Murder, I 461 00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:43,599 think so. And I know I've been salty at the FBI the last couple 462 00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,119 of episodes, but it's we're all just out here trying to make it. 463 00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:51,519 It's hard enough without having the FBI decide that they're going to blacklist you. 464 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,039 We're all just trying to make it through twenty twenty four and it's been a 465 00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:58,000 humdinger of a year so far. I don't know about you, Bill, 466 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,159 but I don't feel like I've slept proper rely since January eighth. Conversation for 467 00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:07,840 another time. Absolutely, we very much look forward to seeing all of you 468 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,920 at our live show on April fifteenth. Please do make sure that you put 469 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,039 that on your calendar. It's the same day as Tax Day. Was that 470 00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:17,920 on purpose? Pill or was that just what they had available to us? 471 00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:22,280 Was what they had available? And then don't forget May thirteenth, which is 472 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,480 also Kristin Dilly's birthday. And then of course you will be able to see 473 00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:30,519 us at Crime Con and we have more interesting information coming out about that here 474 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:34,719 in the next couple of weeks, So stay tuned, exciting news, stay 475 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,920 tuned as they say that is going to do it for this episode of Mind 476 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,880 Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time. 477 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,880 Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. 478 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,400 Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by 479 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,880 Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is 480 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,079 distributed in partnership with cral Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, 481 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,440 Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 482 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:22,119 Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 483 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:27,360 Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.