WEBVTT

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Scott Dtway Commons spirit hell hot Low. We're gonna being on Ryan Michael,

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who's a writer for the Pro Football
Hall of Fame. The statistics for this

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show quite a bit and you can
find him on Twitter at the Ryan Michael

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Right how you know this sevening?
Hi, Ben doing well? Thanks for

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having me on. Absolutely Hey,
you had the John Elway Hall of Fame

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article and for those of you who
need to link to it, and you

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can find it on his Twitter at
the Ryan Michael. But run us through

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that article that you did on John
Elway and a little bit about what you

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do in terms of the statistics on
quarterbacks that you put out on Twitter.

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Sure. So the Quarterback Retrospective series
that I write for the Pro Football Hall

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of Fame is really an opportunity to
take a dive at excellence at the quarterback

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position over the last eighty years.
So sometimes it's an entire career, sometimes

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it's the season, sometimes it's a
single game. In all these case,

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I wanted to take a look back
at his final year in ninety eight,

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and with the twenty five year anniversary
last Wednesday of his final game in Super

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Bowl thirty three, wanted to take
a dive into what that would like ran

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when you look at the quarterback situation
and the history of that particular position.

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If I'm not mistaken in your terms, you feel as though Peyton Manning is

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the best quarterback who ever lace the
true or false? I do, okay.

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So with that being said, and
knowing as though there's a Terry Bradshaw,

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there's a Joe Montague, there's a
John Elway that you wrote about,

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and there's a Tom Brady, what
is it about Peyton that you feel sets

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him apart from those guys and makes
him the bona fide go? Sure?

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You know, when when I look
at the top three quarterbacks ever played a

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position, I would put them with
Manning at number one and Tom Brady and

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Drew Brees at two and three,
and those spots are interchangeable. I realized

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most folks put Drew down perhaps to
the bottom of the top ten, and

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I would say the majority of folks
these days would have Brady at number one.

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E's to go. That's the nickname, and it's not just the nickname

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something that a lot of people feel. So I'll focus more on the Manning

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Brady rivalry because that's always fun to
talk about when I look at Peyton's resume,

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you're looking at a guy who,
at the time of his retirement threw

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for more touchdowns than anybody in the
history of the game, through for more

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yards than anybody in the history of
the game. And when people talk about

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the Tom Brady Peyton Manning rivalry,
if you're in the Manning camp or you're

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in the Brady camp, I don't
think we necessarily disagree so much on the

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specific details. Fans and analysts just
have a difference of opinion as far as

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what criteria correlates more with excellence on
the field. So if you ask most

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folks why they feel Tom Brady to
go, they're probably going to mention the

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fact that he has seven Super Bowl
rings and ten Super Bowl appearances as their

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first point. And to that I
would make the argument that I've never felt

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that Super Bowl rings are the best
measure of how well the quarterback position is

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played. Not to take anything away
from some of the previous Super Bowl champions,

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but when you see quarterbacks like Jeff
Hostetler, Jim McMahon, trend Bilfer,

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Eli Manning as two and the year
he won his first he led the

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league and picks Joe Flacco, Nick
Foles, even Peyton himself in his final

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year. None of those were elite
quarterbacks or at least elite quarterback seasons,

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And so it depends on what your
measure is. People don't disagree that Manning's

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won more MVP than anybody in NFL
history. He has five, Rogers as

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four, Brady United as farb Jim
Brown at three, Montana Young one of

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Mahomes each have two. Mannings the
seven time first team All Pro selection via

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the Associated Press, and nobody in
the Super Bowl era besides Peyton as more

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than four. Rogers has four,
Brady, Montana Marina favy On each have

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three. And the records that Manning
said he did so at a younger age.

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He became the NFL's all time touchdown
path later at the age of thirty

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eight. Tom Brady didn't break that
record until he was forty two. Peyden

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became the leagues all time waiting passer
at thirty nine. Brady didn't break that

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record until he was forty three.
So if you look at the way you

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adjust for arrow when it comes to
statistics, Peyton's numbers are a lot better

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than even the raw numbers. So
when people look at just the raw numbers,

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you're going to see that Tom has
more completions, more yards, more

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touchdowns. But what they're not taking
a closer look at is the fact that

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there was a considerable gap in the
era that those two players play the game.

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Peyton started fifty games before Tom had
his first start, and Tom started

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one hundred and twenty seven games after
Peyton retired. That's one hundred and seventy

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seven games of a swing in both
directions. That is not beneficial to the

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way we look at Manning's numbers,
and it's very beneficial to the way we

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look at Tom's numbers. So statistically
speaking, Peyton Manning was a much more

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dominant quarterback, even for the law
numbers don't necessarily reflect that. Is there

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any single statistic that we can boil
it down to that suggests that one quarterback

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is better than another. No,
No, you keep looking for them.

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You know they're advanced metrics, certainly
DVOA total GPR. You know you can

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look at those metrics, But I
don't think there's anyone all encompassing stat If

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there were, then it would be
a lot easier. Right. So,

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if you're boiling it down the rings
Tom Brady's re build. But if you're

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boiling it down to my measure,
which is totality of on field performance in

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relation to context the playing situation,
I think the choice is now well.

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But that being said, Ryan,
how do we look at this Sunday's matchup

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Kansas City versus San Francisco, Knowing
as though Patrick Mahomes, if he was

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able to come away with the victory, you look at his age of twenty

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eight, he would have therefore gone
to four Super Bowls and have three rings,

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and two of them being back to
back. So where would he fall

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in the early echelon of the quarterback
As though you evaluate Patrick Mahomes is really

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an anomaly, I already have him
as a top twenty five all time quarterback

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and I said before the Conference championship
games that if he were to defeat Baltimore,

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if there were any doubt, there
shouldn't be any more doubt. He's

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a first Battle of Hall of Famer
no matter what happens on Sunday, no

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matter what happens for the rest of
his career, and not specifically just because

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of the Conference Championship rings in the
Super Bowl rings, but just how well

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he plays the position right now.
He's in the middle of what's been the

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worst year of his career, which
is a hell of a compliment when you

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consider how high his floor is.
So I think that Patrick Mahomes could walk

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away from the Super Bowl on Sunday, win or loss, as an all

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time great quarterback. And if we're
talking prime for time, he's on a

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short list of quarterbacks that I would
say are comparable to Peyton Manning at the

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peak of his power. We had
a question coming on the text line and

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they asked, how has Marino when
adjusted for era, Marino is also one

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of the most dominant quarterbacks of all
time. I mean he retired as Manning

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did, as breathed later and then
Grady as the NFL's all time passing later.

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If you go back to his nineteen
eighty four season, he threw for

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five thousand and eighty four yards in
a sixteen game schedule. He threw for

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forty eight touchdowns, and he broke
the record that was held by Ya Tittle.

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Hya Tittle threw thirty six touchdowns in
nineteen sixty three. So that record

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stood for twenty one years and Marino
absolutely obliterated it. So if we're talking

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the greatest single season of all time. Nineteen eighty four is on that short

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list of the best there's ever been, but Marino's right on up there in

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the top five. Adjusted for era, his numbers are far more impressive than

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what you would think just looking at
the raw numbers. Now, Ran,

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do you think that more fans should
give credit to Jake Plumber opposed to what

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they actually give And the reason I
say that is because we know the history

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and what Peyton Manning has done this
league and did as a member of the

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Broncos. We know that both he
and John Ewick brought the trophy here to

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Broncos Country. But do you feel
as though Jake Plumber is kind of under

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value because he is kind of smashed
between those two guys one hundred percent.

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I mean, it's virtually impossible not
to live in the shadow of John Elway

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and then retroactively to live in the
shadow we're just talking about great Broncos quarterbacks,

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to live in the shadow of what
Peyton did his time here in Denver.

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But John, I'm sorry, Jake
Plumber was one of the best quarterbacks

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in Broncos franchise history. Helped bring
the team to a conference championship game and

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helped bring them back to a level
of respectability that we didn't quite have in

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the wake of losing John. So
I would say that that Jake Plumber is,

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especially his tenure in Denver's quite underrated. You mentioned earlier that you have

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Drew Brees as one of the top
five quarterbacks. I tend to agree with

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you. I will leave you listened
him at number two, or at least

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a co share of number two.
And I have a question about that.

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If you have a quarterback that's that
high and they only got one super Bowl?

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Is that on the quarterback? Is
that on the support of cast Is

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that on the coach? What does
that say about a coach like Sean Payton,

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who's reputation as a genius means he, you know, he had an

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all time great quarterback number two all
tomic. What did you and and still

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only came away with one Super Bowl? I would say that that's more of

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an indictment on the nature of team
sports. And I think that if you're

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going to ask that question, especially
if we're if we're talking about Super Bowl

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appearances and success in the post season, we have to look at how Drew

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played and on a game by game
basis, Drew Brees averaged more completions,

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higher completion percentage, more passing yards
per game, more touchdowns per game,

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fewer interceptions per game, higher yards
per attempt in Manning or Brady, who

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were virtual carbon copies of each other
on a per game basis in the postseason.

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So when you see a quarterback who
arguably performed better than Manning and Brady,

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who are the top two or two
of the top three on a lot

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of people's lists, that's more of
an indictment on I don't want you can't

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throw it all on Sean, but
on the coaching staff, the totality of

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those rosters, And in a way, I always felt that Breeze was punished

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for making the Saints better than they
had any business being. When you carry

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a team and you carry that much
deadweight and you produce that many seasons where

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you're winning ten, eleven, twelve
thirteen games, you almost forget that a

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lot of those Saints rosters didn't belong
with number one or number two seeds.

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So when it ends poorly, and
certainly, Drew Brees probably had the worst

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luck of any quarterback in recent history
in terms of how a lot of those

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playoff games ended. That's more an
indictment on just the nature of team sports.

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Drew Brees in terms of his performance
in both the regular season and the

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postseason, speaks for itself. I'm
going to stretch you just a little here,

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but this next question is based on
your recent memory, So just kind

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of keep that in mind. And
with that being said, the quarterback that's

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had the best performance in a Super
Bowl and ooh, a single super Bowl.

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I mean, you know, obviously, if we're talking recent history,

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what Pat Mahomes did to the Eagles
last year is towards the top of that

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list. What Steve Young did to
San Diego, what Joe Montana did to

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Denver, So you wanted to kind
of get into into that game. I

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mean, Montana was virtually perfect.
He completed twenty two of twenty nine passes

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two hundred and ninety seven yards,
five touchdowns, no picks, a one

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hundred and forty seven point six passer
rating. And you compare that to what

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Elway did ten of twenty six for
one hundred and eight yards, no touchdowns,

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two picks, and a nineteen point
four passer rating. And I mean

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Montana's passer rating was one hundred and
twenty eight point two point fire than the

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opposing quarterback. And the Broncos.
You know, a lot of people give

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John rightfully so, a lot of
credit for helping to carry those those Broncos

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teams in the eighties to three Super
Bowl appearances. But the nineteen eighty nine

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Denver Broncos led the league in points
surrendered, that was the number one scoring

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defense in the and Joe Montano in
the San Francisco forty nine ers dropped I'm

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trying to think off the top of
my head. I think it was fifty

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five points, fifty five points against
Denver, something like that. Those are

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all all really really good choices.
You know. One of the things that

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I've noticed out of your Twitter account
you can find him at the Ryan Michael

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on Twitter, is your if useuld
praise for Matt Ryan someone who Yeah,

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and I think that Ryan was a
very very good quarterback. I think he

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was very outdrated and I appreciate seeing
those stats that you put out about him.

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But for whatever reason, his reputation
does not certainly match up, I

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think, with the productivity. And
why do you suppose that is? It's

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it's I would say mostly based on
disappointment in the postseason. The regular season

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numbers were elite, they were great, but Matt had the misfortune of playing

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in the same era as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and

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Peyton Manning. That was the strongest
quarterback generation in the history of pro football

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in my opinion. So there were
times where he was better than all of

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those guys, but more often than
not he fell beneath those guys. And

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when you look at the disappointment in
the postseason, he's always going to be

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remembered for twenty eight to three,
and people will completely overlook the fact that

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he had the highest pass rating in
the Super Bowl to this day since Joe

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Montana did against Denver. I think
it was one hundred and forty four point

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one something something along those lines.
And people also overlook the fact that Atlanta's

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defense ranked twenty seven in points surrendered
that year, so out of the fifty

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seven Super Bowls that have been played, that is the second worst scoring defense

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to ever get that far. If
you have a twenty seven strings scoring defense,

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you should probably be winning six or
seven games in a lot of cases,

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so you know the ending is not
the ending that anybody wanted that would

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be the first person to tell you
that. But individually, on a per

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dropback basis, he played at a
much higher level than Brady did in that

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game. And he also had the
misfortune of losing a coin flip and not

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part participating it over time. So
what more can you do? I guess

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you know, it would have been
nicer to have a few of those plays

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back. But in totality, he
played very well in that game. But

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he's never going to be remembered for
doing that because all anyone's going to talk

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about is twenty eight to three.
It's interesting that we having a conversation about

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Matt Ryan and how he is going
to be remembered based on the stats that

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he's having. So I'll ask you
this, I mean, are we close

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to looking at Buffalo's Josh Allen in
the same way as though most of us

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look at Matt Ryan. It's possible. It's possible. You know, the

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way Josh has played the position over
the last few years certainly is comparable to

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the way that Matt played at the
teak of his power. Now, obviously

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Matt Ryan sustained success for longer,
but you are seeing a somewhat comparable situation

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in terms of Buffalo collectively as a
team over underachieving rather in the postseason.

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So I think that's a fair comparison. Well, Ryan, appreciate your time.

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You guys can check him out a
v Ryan Michael on Twitter, and

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and certainly I appreciate all the stats
and stuff that you put out there,

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a lot of great stuff. You
guys don't want to follow him. Appreciate

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you taking some time out tonight.
Yes, sir, I appreciate you having

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me on. Let's do it again. Absolutely, take care, Bye.

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Michael at the Ryan Michael on Twitter. Love. He just has all kinds

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of just informative data. And for
those of you who don't know, Ryan

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does a lot of the stat work
that we get here on BCT. He

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sends me a show sheets and a
lot of other stuff that a lot of

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these statistics that are behind the scenes
numbers you wouldn't think of kind of stuff.

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He does a lot of that for
us. So I thought that it

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was interesting, you know, looking
at how Peyton manning his view and Ryan's

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mind and from a statistical standpoint in
comparison to some of the other quarterbacks,

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and looking at Matt Ryan's career.
It wasn't as though Matt Ryan was a

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bus He was an MVP right.
He had a cessation of season under Kyle

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Shanahan, which makes me think that
Brod Purdy could have an all time game

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on Sunday against the Chiefs. But
with that being said about Ryan, even

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his numbers are statistically great, he
still isn't one of those quarterbacks when we

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talk about some of the top quarterbacks
in the league, his name does not

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come up. And they would always
go back to that twenty eight to three

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fourth quarter lead, eight minutes and
thirty three seconds remaining in that Super Bowl.

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That kind of deltim almighty blow as
far as his name being mentioned among

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the top quarterbacks to play in this
league. Yeah, and you know how

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much that was him though. I
mean, you go back to the twenty

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three lead and the Falcons were driving, and they dialed up they were inside

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a field goal range, and then
they were dialed up passing plays at that

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point in time. So you blaming
Kyle. I'm not to play calling on

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that. Absolutely, See you can't. I've had this conversation with a lot

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of Falcons and I say, at
that particular point you pass. The game

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was on point. The pageots had
no answer for it. So one running

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back missed his let's pick up when
Dante Hidealer looking right at him on the

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side. You can call it execution
if you want. What are you doing?

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Dial on that up to begin with
you're up twenty eighty three. Play.

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The only enemy you had left is
the clock. The clock kept stopping

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because of what you did. And
then you got him sacked and took him

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out of field goal. Really he
didn't get him sacked. The running back

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got him sack. Calling to play
where the running back was in a position

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to get him sacked. But the
game was on point. Then do you

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need it any or if you didn't
need it anymore, you hit the point

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where you just need to put points
and take time you could have. You

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know what the higher EPA play was
there, kneeling the ball three times and

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kicking a field goal, says the
high sight is twenty twenty knowing his own

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I said it at the time though
it's what he's seen happen. But I

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saw it at the time. They
were throwing the ball at the time,

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like, what are he doing throwing
the ball? Just run the ball and

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kicked the field goal and you put
it out of reach. Tom Brady's gonna

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score some points to half. The
Patriots could not throw down Julio Jones because

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they could stop me. They found
a way. I'm just saying, like

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I knew, like I remember at
that exact moment in tom where I was

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sitting there, like Tom Brady's gonna
come, gonna put some kind of comeback

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together here, all right. So
take that out of the equation, make

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it thirty one to three, make
it a four school, four touchdown game.

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So here's what you're missing though,
as they didn't listen. Is he

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easy to blame Kyle and saves on
the place. I'm not blaming all of

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it, okay, but at some
point the Falcons defense needed to make a

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play and they did not make a
play. But we need to take commercial

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break. Roncos Country to Night rolls
on it to this