WEBVTT

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Today, I want to tell you
about a journey that I've been on for

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most of my life. Ever since
I was a kid, I've heard tales

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of bigfoot and wild men while spending
time with my friends and family. As

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I grew older and read more about
the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and

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other things strange only deepened. That's
why I'm so excited to share with you

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what I've personally become involved with the
Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network

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is a live streaming podcast network that
airs a new show every day across all

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podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all

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sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and

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much more. I even have my
own show called Weird Encounters, where I

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talk about all things strange. This
is more than just a podcast network.

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It's a community that allows me to
meet so many amazing people who share their

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stories and experiences with strange. If
you're interested in hearing more of these stories

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and learning more about the paranormal and
encryptids, make sure you check out the

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Untold Radio Network for all kinds of
exciting shows. It's free to subscribe.

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So what are you waiting for visit
www dot untold radionetwork dot com today.

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Now, what are your reporting?
I got a screen going on here.

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Something just kid with my dog,
something to kill your dog? My dog.

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We're flying through there, over the
tree. I don't know how it

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did it? Okay, Damn,
I'm really confused. All I saw was

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my dog coming over the fence,
and name was dead once you hit the

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ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw was my dog coming

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over the fence. Sat, what
are you reporting? We got some wonder

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or something crawling around out here?
Did you see what it was? It

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was enough out here when I'm new
to window now and I don't need anything,

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I don't want to go outside.
Point hello, hit the boddy out

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here? What went on out there? I've thought of a bit of about

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text nine. I don't know easy, I'm out there. Yeah, I'm

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wking right, ahad, Oh,
it's just you and me today, outstanding.

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Yep. Paul had some snaffoo with
child transportation or something, and Scott

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is of course professionally hiking exactly right. So it's just you mean, it's

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going to be, you know,
very tender and sort of you know,

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what's the word I'm looking for.
I'm ruining it. I just ruined it.

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Whatever the moment was that we had
there, I've I've destroyed it.

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But you thoroughly creeped me out.
All right, let's just move on.

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The last show was kind of different. I assume you had a chance to

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listen to that at some point.
I've listened to part of it. Yeah,

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I haven't actually made it through all
of it. I think I made

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it through enough of it to be
able to converse a pust list. Yeah,

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So I thought we would continue the
conversation. There are questions on the

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Facebook feed that would be good to
get to at some point. But I

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feel like there's a lot to talk
about with regard to this very X thing

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still, so I figured we'd talk
about that today, among other things.

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So there's been a lot of reaction
to shows that we put out, because

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up until yesterday that was the extent
of all the information that was coming out

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around what the TVRC had done over
the summer. There are some things that

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I want to address just in general. There have been questions about motives,

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the motivation of the TBRC for doing
this and me personally, so I wanted

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to sort of get to some of
those things. The first thing that I

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want to put an end to is
this idea that I've actually seen this somebody

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suggesting that I'm trying to get myself
a television program or something like I'm trying

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to pull a Matt Moneymaker and get
myself a Bigfoot reality show. Yeah,

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I'm not doing that. I would
imagine that if I or anyone in the

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TVRC was super interested in that,
then we would have responded to the past

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dozen or so inquiries from Finding Bigfoot
that have wanted to engage the TBRC,

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and in fact, every time they've
come to us, we've declined participation in

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that program. So I don't know
what else to do except say I'm not

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trying to get on TV. No
one I know is trying to get on

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TV, except to say it.
But if I did get on TV,

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Sam, I totally take you with
me. Appreciate it. I'll warn you

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now, I have a face for
radio. Okay, there's a reason I'm

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on a podcast and I'm not on
TV, so I could use a sidekick.

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I guess that is what I'm saying. You can do your bobo,

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I'll do all the painful recreations for
you. Excellent, all right, you're

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you're my bobo. The other motivation
that i've seen put out there is money,

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that the TVRC is in it for
the money, as if there was

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money in Bigfoot. See exactly when
you drag the bloody carcass of the Bigfoot

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out of the woods with you,
Ed McMahon will be standing there with the

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giant novelty size check, you know, just like congratulations and handover. I

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don't know some of money, I
don't know. There is no money as

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far as I can tell. In
fact, we've reached out to the you

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know, the James Randy Educational Foundation. They have this million dollar pro whatever

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it is, for proof of some
paranormal thing. So one of our members,

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just on a lark reached out to
them and said, you know,

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if we bring in a dead Bigfoot, you know, is is that going

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to get us the million dollars.
A response was essentially no, it's not

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paranormal. So there is no money
in this as far as I can tell

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from you know, a direct result
of having a dead big tho, there's

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no prize. There's no nothing like
that. Now it's not to say that

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the organization that does it may have
an uptick in membership or have an uptick

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in donations or something like that.
I mean, I'll be perfectly upfront say

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that the TBRC makes money in three
different ways in this order. We make

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money from membership dues. That's almost
all the money we make is from membership

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dues. We make money from our
annual conference, which there will not be

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one in twenty twelve, so there's
no money coming in from that. Some

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years we make a little money on
that. They're having one or two years

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in the past where we've made pretty
good money on it, but usually it's

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not a huge money maker. And
then the third thing we do ask for

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just public donations on our website,
and I think we get those extraordinarily and

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frequently. I mean, that's essentially
there's not much money coming in that way.

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So those are the three ways the
TVRC makes money. Would the recognition

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from bringing one in cause one of
those three things to increase, probably,

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But also understand that we are a
tax exempt corporation. It's not the case

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that we're going to be sort of
taking this giant pile of filthy lucre and

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dividing it amongst ourselves. I mean
that the money has to go somewhere,

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It has to be accounted for.
If we do find ourselves having some financial

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sort of uptake based on the fact
that we've collected a specimen, then that

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money would go back into our research. So it's not exactly the case we're

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going to be able to make a
lot of money on this. I honestly

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don't know how you would make a
lot of money off this. I suppose

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you could sell your story, right, you could make a TV movie or

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something. I don't know, but
that's also probably not something that we're going

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to be interested in doing. Money
is not the motivation. The last motivation

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that I've seen is in in fact, you know, it's even been bandied

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about on the show by some people
who are not present, is that,

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you know, we just want it
for the fame, you know, we

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just want the recognition of being the
ones to do it. I guess my

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answer to that, you know,
the more I thought about that, is

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Yeah, it seems to me that
humans in general seek recognition in what they

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do. I mean, even Mother
Teresa. I mean, she was awesome,

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right, but I'm sure that Mother
Teresa enjoyed hearing how awesome. She

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was on occasion, she was doing
it for the poor people, but you

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know she had an ego, right, I mean, at the end of

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the day, I'm sure she said, oh no, no, I do

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it for the poor. And I'm
sure she was being sincere because she was

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doing it for the poor. But
at the same time, if you're going

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to be someone like Mother Teresa,
you enjoy the recognition. Right. If

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you're Jonas Sack, you enjoy the
recognition. Albert Einstein was a media whore.

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That's not saying that anything Albert Einstein
ever did was worthless and all he

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wanted to do was be on talk
shows. That's not true. I mean

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I don't even think they had talk
shows back then. But what I'm saying

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is he was everywhere in the media
when he was alive, and he was

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still a respected person in his field. Carl Sagan, same thing, total

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media whore, right, But nobody's
ever said, well, you know that,

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Carl Sagan, he only ever wants
to be on TV. I guess

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I would say if the worst you
can like sort of accuse someone who is

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out there trying to collect a specimen
is that they want their recognition, They

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want to be recognized for making a
contribution, for making a large discovery.

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Absolutely, I don't think there's anything
wrong with that. It's not the sole

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motivation, not by a long shot. But it is a motivation because we

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are just people, and people seek
recognition. I think of the three accusations

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that one's easily the weakest and the
most disingenuous, because you're absolutely right.

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I mean, anybody that goes out
there and accomplishes something naturally wants to be

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recognized for that accomplishment. I mean, like you said, that's just human

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nature. Right now, you can
take it to a level where it's worthy

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of criticism. But if I put
in a huge amount of time and effort

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and sweat equity to achieve a goal
and you come up and pat me on

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the back and say, hey,
good job, I'm not going to turn

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around and say I don't want your
your Oh no, no, no,

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no, get away, don't look
me like that. I'm gonna appreciate it.

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And it's just like you said,
it's human nature. And it seems

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as though you can have multiple motivations, right you can be truly interested in

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making a discovery for your field and
also truly enjoy the recognition after the fact,

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you know, once the discovery is
made. You know, the one

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thing that I've seen written about the
TVRC on many of the different websites and

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forums and Facebook and every world.
I don't know exactly where I read this,

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but somebody made the comment that the
TVRC is pretty boring. In reality.

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You don't go to their site if
you want the spooky story. They

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just go out there. They do
their thing, They tell you what they

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find. They don't do it in
a very exciting way. There's a spectrum.

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Right on one end, you're gonna
have someone like Tom Buscardi, who

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is nothing but showman hype and promotion
and whatever he can get his hands on

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and spin out. And then there's
going to be other people who we don't

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even know because they do this work
totally in seclusion or totally below the radar

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of the world. They may be
do doing important things, and they may

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be the one to actually do the
documentation at the end of the day,

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but we don't know who they are
because they're on the other end of the

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spectrum. But you know, somewhere
on that end, not nearly as far

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as that, but somewhere on that
end, you have something like the TBRC.

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I think my own personal opinion,
and I think that all you have

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to do is go to our website, read the things that have been written

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there, and make the judgment for
yourself. But I don't think we're certainly

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not Biscardy esque. We're not even
money maker esque, right, I mean,

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we're not even anywhere near what that
dude does. Well, whatever that's

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I'm probably not the most disinterested third
party when it comes to talking about that.

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The easiest and the laziest way to
attack somebody is to make them one

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dimensional. You know, you only
have one motive and that's attention, or

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you only have one motive and that's
money, or you have a member who

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acts in such a way so all
the members act exactly the same way.

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For the longest time, one of
the biggest criticisms against the BFRO has been

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Matt moneymaker, as if he was
every member of the BFRO. Yeah.

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Now, I mean it's true,
and anybody that knows anything about the BFR

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knows it nat is he is the
BFRO. But if you're a member of

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that organization, it doesn't mean that
you're a moneymaker. When people criticize it,

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that's what they go after, and
so a lot of good descent stand

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up people they get railroaded by that
same attack. And the same goes for

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the TBRC. And I've seen it
written online and other places where you know,

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people attack the group by attributing one
person's traits or that person's actions to

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the entire group, and that's completely
unfair, not only to the group,

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but to that person. It's interesting
because another thing I wanted to bring up

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is that the James Randy Educational Foundation
Forum that j ref for those in the

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know I've had some interactions with them
over the past week, occurs to me.

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At some point I realized that they
were not one dimensional. And this

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is actually a problem I used to
have when I was associated with the Bigfoot

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Forms is that people would say the
Bigfoot Forms is X, and it was

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like, well, the Bigfoot Forms
can't be X, because all the Bigfoot

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Forms is a group of people talking. So if what you're saying is X,

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may be what the most the loudest
voice there is, or the person

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you last read. But the Bigfoot
Forms in and of itself does not have

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a point of view, right.
It does have a sort of a texture

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to it. Then there are a
certain type of Especially now, I think

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that the diversity of people who post
on the BFF is a little narrower than

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it used to be, for good
or for ill. I don't think it's

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fair to say that any group,
especially a group that is as amorphous as

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a web forum, has a specific
point of view, right Obviously, I

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think the Bigfoot Forms leans towards heavily
the fact that Bigfoot is real, and

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something like the James Randy Education Foundation
form is going to be leaning in the

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exact opposite direction just as hard.
But that isn't to say that there aren't

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reasonable people or unreasonable people in both
groups. I think that goes for all

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organizations. I think that's exactly right. So anyway, we've had lots of

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conversations answering a lot of questions on
the BFF. I've now started to answer

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questions on the j REF. I
was hesitant because the level of smugness among

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some of the people over there is. The snarkiness of the conversation on the

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j REF is somewhat difficult to stomach
on occasion. But I think we're at

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least right now, at this moment, we're at a point where we're having

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a reasonable conversation, and there's moderators
in the thread who are sort of stripping

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out the worst of the snarky smugness, so we'll see what happens. There

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are some people in there who are
quite concerned about the location and trying to

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identify the location where we do our
work, which if I was listening to

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what I say from outside of me, I can't because I've been there and

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I've experienced it. But I fully
acknowledge, and I think I acknowledged that

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what I say is almost unbelievable.
I don't know that I myself would have

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believed it several years ago, so
I don't necessarily expect everyone hearing the sound

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of my voice to believe me.
You know, I have a reputation,

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and you can weigh that against what
I say and use that in any way

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that you like. But at the
end of the day, all we have

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is claims. All we have is
experiences. For the most part, it's

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not surprising at it some people find
it hard to believe. I do find

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it troubling when people say that they
want us to produce a body. Then

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when it seems like we're close to
being able to do that when the members

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who are so inclined to do so
are in a position to do that.

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There seems to be quite a bit
of worry on the skeptical side about what

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that would mean. Well, obviously, since Bigfoot can't exist, then if

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we see something in the bushes and
we shoot at it and it's on two

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legs, we're going to be killing
somebody, because of course Bigfoot is not

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real. You kind of expose the
fact that they're not real skeptics in many

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cases. You know, I'm not
saying that none of them are, but

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a lot of them aren't. And
some of them who are held up as

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paragons of reasonable skepticism in this field
aren't because they don't believe that Bigfoot exists.

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They're not actual skeptics. They won't
modify their point of view, and

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there's no way to get new information
into their thought process a lie or a

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hoax or whatever, because they've already
cited that the animal we look for is

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not real. I think that's a
good point to make. When you go

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to the point to where you say
that this animal definitively does exist or definitively

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does not exist, you're engaging in
a belief system both ways. You can't

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criticize someone for saying, okay,
Bigfoot is real and then turn around immediately

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and say, there's absolutely no way
that Bigfoot is real. You are obviously

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committing a hopes. That's just as
definitive a statement with just as little evidence

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to back it up. It's unfair
to point that finger at someone and make

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that accusation of, well, you're
a creduloid because you believe in Bigfoot,

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or you know you're obviously a hoax, or because you say you saw Bigfoot,

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or because you say you have ongoing
activity in an area. You can't

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have it both ways. You can't
make definitive statements yourself with no evidence and

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then criticize others for making definitive statements
that you say have no evidence. Right.

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I've been pretty upfront to say that
the experiences that I've had and the

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things that I relate, I don't
think rise to the level of proof.

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I'm not going to suddenly start saying
that, well, my stories are different,

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because I'm saying them so clearly.
You know, I'm completely believable.

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I think I am totally believable,
and I am obviously telling the truth.

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But that doesn't mean that some guy
off the street needs to necessarily believe me.

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That's why many people within the TBRC
believe we need to collect a specimen,

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because what happens to you is just
a story until you can bring out

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evidence. Yesterday, the TBRC released
some hair evidence. You know, we

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collected a bunch of hairs. There
was contact with the building. It was

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the kind of contact that made us
believe there may be hair evidence left on

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the building. I'll just leave it
at that. So we went out to

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collect a bunch of hairs. We
actually got a lot of hairs. We

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looked at all of them under the
microscope. Almost all of them appeared to

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be raccoon, with the exception of
one hair that we found, which let

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me describe it correctly, because I
meant to have this sitting in front of

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me before I the show, and
I didn't. So one of these hairs

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we call it Sample six because that's
the number it got. It's about six

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inches long. It's kind of reddish
brown. Under the microscope, we've found

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that it has no madula, so
there's no you know, core inside this

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hair. It has an interesting root. It's kind of a bulbous root and

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the tip of the hair is broken
off and frayed in a very interesting way

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that when we look at human hair, even though human hair also share some

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of these same attributes, the end
of this hair is interesting that human hair

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typically doesn't end up looking like this. It splits, but this is frayed

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like it's seen a lot of wear
and tear. Soh this hair is very

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interesting to us. It's just the
one hair that we found. All the

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other hairs that we found we've dismissed
and they're gone, but this particular hair

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fits into the profile of other hairs
that have purported to have come from what

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Apes, so this hair is of
interest to us. We've collected the hair

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of other long haired members who this
hair could have come from, that it

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doesn't match their hair, and again
it looks pretty beat up as if it

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hasn't been cared for in the same
way that human hair is. So we

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shared this information with Jeff Meldrum.
He thought it was interesting as well.

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So we've sent this hair off to
Brian Sykes who is doing the DNA study

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over there in Oxford, so this
hair will be studied, will be analyzed

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by him and the DNA will be
extracted from this hair, and that's where

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it is right now. I don't
know what he's going to find. I

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am very curious to see what he
finds, because obviously, if it is

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from a wood ape, then that
will be some interesting DNA to look at.

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Right I think it's really interesting that
it's going to be included in that

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study because there's been a lot of
talk and chatter about it. I think

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even the most ardent critic would have
to sit back and say that in this

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particular case, this is legitimate science. This isn't any kind of showmanship or

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puffery or fakery. This is a
real scientist doing real science, and to

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get your possible evidence included in that
is a big deal. It's entirely possible

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this hair will come back any number
of different ways, and we don't know

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that it's from a wooded because we
didn't see the woody leave it there.

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It's entirely possible that it is,
and it's possible that it isn't, So

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there were at least opening ourselves up
to finding out one way or the other.

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There's another hair that we sent along
too. At last year's conference,

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we had on display well it's a
dreadlock. It's this long piece of sort

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of knotted hair. It looks like
a dread but it's super long. It's

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like, I don't know, or
feet long or so. That isn't TBRC

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property. That was brought to us
by someone who we've had as an association

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with for us to try to analyze
and take a look at. So we

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were able to collect some pieces of
that and we've sent pieces of that hair

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and it shows a lot of the
same traits as the hair we collected off

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the cabin. Well actually all the
same traits as the hair we collected off

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the cabin. So that hair is
also going to Sykes. So now he's

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got two samples from us to put
in the study. So that's exciting.

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We'll see what happens. So some
of the questions and I'm going to go

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to the Facebook page because one of
the things that I don't think I was

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very clear about on the show in
wh which I related my experiences up,

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there was one thing I wanted to
comment on. You were talked about you

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know, you haven't made the claim
that your experiences are evidence that's true.

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That was one of the first things
I picked up on listening to Alton and

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Paul Bowman, was you all go
to great lengths to say we have experienced

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this, and we're not going to
back down and say otherwise. You know,

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these things happened, and we saw
them and we experienced them, but

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we all fully recognize that this is
not proof, right. You know,

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I forget exactly how it was that
Alton phrased it, but I mean he

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literally put it out there to say, we know these things because these things

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happened, but we also know that
our knowing them doesn't make everyone else know

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00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:52.000
them, right. That's my own
way of paraphrases. Yeah, but it's

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true, and I think that's an
important thing, and I think that adds

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to the legitimacy of it. You
know, I've had experiences and I've seen

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things, but I'm not going to
go out there and tell anyone that my

323
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own personal experiences amount to squat you
know, I've had my experiences on the

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JIF, and that was something that
I said from day one, and I've

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said anywhere else that I've talked about
it. It's such a strange position to

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be put into when you know something
happened, there's no doubt about it.

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There's no mistaking it. You weren't
asleep, you weren't under the influence.

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You know, there's just no other
way of getting around it. It happened,

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but what it was was extraordinary,
and you were almost left with a

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burden that you have to carry because
you know, on the one hand,

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you know it was real and you
know what happened, but you also know

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that when you go out there into
the greater wide world and relate this to

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people, they're going to look at
you like you're crazy, Which kind of

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gets back to motivation. Why would
the TBRC, Why would I tell these

335
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stories except that I want people to
hear them, knowing that there's going to

336
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be people And on the j REF
you can see this, you can read

337
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.640
it. It's not even between the
lines. I mean, it's right there

338
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in words. There's a lot of
animosity towards people who have these experiences and

339
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:18.720
talk about them. It's almost like
we're accused of having experiences, like our

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crime is that this happened to us
and we're telling people about it. There's

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a lot of, you know,
anger about that, which I really don't

342
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.519
understand. Again, we're not necessarily
just coming out of the blue We're not

343
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an unknown quantity. The TVRC has
been on for a long time. I

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mean I've been in this publicly in
this field since two thousand and two,

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So I don't really understand where a
lot of the anger comes from. I

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think it has to come from somewhere
inside of them, more so than based

347
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.440
on anything we're saying, Well,
we are making extraordinary claims. I totally

348
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.240
acknowledge that I'm only talking about the
stuff that we've talked about. Right within

349
00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.400
the group, we're constantly saying to
each other like, this is incredible,

350
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.839
right, I mean, we fully
acknowledge that it's incredible in every sense of

351
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.759
that word incredible. But all we're
doing is saying what happened? Of course,

352
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because you know, this is one
of the questions I've answered again and

353
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again on the JROUGH is like,
well, how do you know there's big

354
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put down there? Because I've seen
them, right, We've seen them.

355
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We've had multiple pretty clear sightings where
you can see attributes of the body.

356
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:21.480
There's been a whole bunch of sort
of fleeting glimpses that we call possible sightings

357
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that we don't necessarily say were a
siding. They could have been, but

358
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we don't know for a fact,
because all you could see was a blur

359
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of color or something in the bushes. Mark McClerkin has seen the things back.

360
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.240
He's seen its ass and its legs. I mean, he says it

361
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looks like the PGF subject. I
mean, Daryl has seen an animal.

362
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We could see the top of its
pointy head, you know. And those

363
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are just two of the examples,
not the only two. That's the other

364
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:47.599
thing that there's a misperception out there
that everything that we've said is everything that's

365
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:52.039
happened. That's not the case.
There have been several sightings where you could

366
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:57.119
discern attributes of these animals' bodies.
These are not fleeting glimpses. They're fast,

367
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they happen quickly, but they have
some detail behind them. How do

368
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we know they're down there, well, because we've seen them. So now

369
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we're making this claim that they're there
because we've seen them and all this other

370
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stuff has happened. Then sort of
the hate machine starts churning in some people,

371
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and I honestly don't understand where that
comes from. Maybe that's the difference

372
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between a quote unquote skeptic and someone
who's not see it as skeptical, the

373
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skeptical thing. I'm skeptical, right, I'm skeptical of the things that happen

374
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to me and to our organization.
I hate the fact the mantle of skepticism

375
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has been taken up by people who
have entirely closed minds, who do not

376
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accept new information. They say,
oh, I would love to be proven

377
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wrong, But that's not true because
if you say things to them, or

378
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you try to bring something like this
hair out that the hair has gotten remarkably

379
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.279
little attention on the j REF,
which is interesting. You know, the

380
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.400
one piece of sort of physical evidence
that we've brought out about on the j

381
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REF. All they want to talk
about is, you know, is the

382
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.960
cabin really as remote as you say
it is? And how do you know

383
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.319
there aren't humans hoaxing you? Isn't
it true that you haven't seen any foot

384
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down there? I mean, all
these kind of things that just demonstrate that

385
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:06.000
they don't know the facts that we
put out there. It can be very

386
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.880
frustrating. So if you read it
from a detached perspective, you know and

387
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you don't, you don't invest yourself
on either side of the argument. You

388
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.599
can see people constructing their own belief
system. And it's another example of what

389
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I was saying, where you can't
criticize someone for making a definitive statement when

390
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.279
you turn right back around yourself and
use your own definitive statement to attack them.

391
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If you're building a belief and your
argument is based upon a belief,

392
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you don't talk about things that don't
fit into that belief system. You tend

393
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:42.240
to focus on those things that support
your belief. And so if your belief

394
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is that there can be no Bigfoot, so obviously these people are lying,

395
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then those are the things that you're
going to bring into that conversation. You're

396
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.960
going to bring into you know,
hoaxing and questioning locations and questioning aspects of

397
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.200
the story. In fairness, you
should be very question and when someone comes

398
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.960
to you with an extraordinary claim,
yes you should put all your energy and

399
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.119
all your thought into dissecting it.
Right, But you get to a point

400
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:15.640
where you're not asking legitimate questions for
the sake of knowledge. You're asking questions

401
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.799
in an attempt to buoy up a
decision that you've already come to long ago.

402
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:25.039
One of the criticisms I had about
the way he was treated was when

403
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:29.599
Ben Radford was speaking to him.
He wasn't speaking to Scott's own experiences,

404
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:36.400
specifically what Scott was talking about.
He was bringing up canned arguments that,

405
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.519
you know, the old chestnuts that
are always brought up every time you start

406
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.599
to talk about something like Sasquatch.
And I said then that, you know,

407
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.039
instead of bringing up these, you
know, these canned arguments, he

408
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.000
should have been directly addressing Scott and
Scott's experiences. You know, if you're

409
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.200
going to take somebody apart or try
to get to the heart of the matter,

410
00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.319
you need to do so not because
your prop yourself up, but because

411
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.599
you want to know the truth one
way or the other. And like you

412
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:07.680
said, skepticism should be about seeking
that truth. That's how I would define

413
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.839
it skepticism. And I don't have
a dictionary in front of me, but

414
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:18.720
skepticism should be not taking a position
until there can be actual evidence or proof

415
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.079
that could push you in one way
or the other. But a lot of

416
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:25.440
these guys sort of just sit behind
this curtain of skepticism when in reality they're

417
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.519
not skeptical at all. They're just
unbelievers. They're just like, they have

418
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:33.559
no possibility of accepting this short of
us bringing a dead one out of the

419
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:36.039
bushes. Right. So in some
of this stuff, I want to be

420
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.799
careful to not say exactly what their
motivations are. But in some of these

421
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.559
cases, what I sense is like
a real fear that we may be close

422
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:48.759
to doing this, that we may
be close to exposing the fact that they're

423
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.400
wrong. A lot of these guys
don't want to be wrong, you know,

424
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.160
they don't ever want to be wrong. It's strange to me that the

425
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.319
people who have been asking for the
very thing that we seem to be close

426
00:27:56.359 --> 00:28:02.519
to producing would suddenly be doing every
thing they could to keep us from producing

427
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.000
the thing that they say they've wanted
all this time. I do think it's

428
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:08.680
interesting that they've already positioned themselves with
an argument for why they wouldn't pay out

429
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.400
the million dollar Challenge. Yeah,
but you know, if you think about

430
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.400
it, they're right because the million
dollar Challenge specifically deals with paranormal claims.

431
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.240
Well, if you bring in a
wood ape or a sasquatch or whatever you

432
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.559
want to call it, there's nothing
paranormal about that. That's a biological entity

433
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.960
exactly. And so it's it's easy
to say that, but yeah, you're

434
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.480
right. I mean, I'm looking
at the definition of skepticism right now,

435
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:37.079
and the very first line is an
attitude of doubt or a disposition a method

436
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.480
of suspended judgment. Well, definitive
statements like there is no sasquatch. That's

437
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.960
not doubt, right, that's not
a suspended judge, and that's a statement

438
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.920
of fact. And I can find
you dozens of examples in this one threat.

439
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:51.000
I don't even go anywhere else in
the forum, right. You know,

440
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:55.279
there's multiple flat out assertions that bigfoot
do not exist. That's not a

441
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.079
suspension of of judgment at all.
To be fair, we've got the same

442
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:03.119
problem on our side of the fence, because you know, if these guys

443
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.000
are so far to the right that
they can't even accept a brand new fact

444
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.519
in any little nook and cranny of
their brain because they are completely locked solid

445
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.799
in what they believe, we've got
the same exact problem on the other side,

446
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.200
where brains are too open and too
accepting and too willing to take any

447
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.480
piece of information or any claim and
accept that it's real. We've got problems

448
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:25.039
on both sides. What's frustrating to
me is that I think there is a

449
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.559
true skeptical center that is not represented
by either side, especially by most of

450
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.759
the people who claim to be skeptics. There is a true skeptical center to

451
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:34.720
say, you know, this is
a piece of evidence, and we need

452
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:40.519
to ascertain whether or not it's true, ascertain what it represents. But that

453
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:41.839
isn't the case for a lot of
people who claim to be skeptics. And

454
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.240
I think Ben Radford's a really good
example. We've beat up on him on

455
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.160
the show lots of times. If
you read what he writes, not what

456
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.759
he writes professionally, because he tries
to keep that pretty open, but if

457
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.480
you read what he writes on Facebook, if you listen to how he's like

458
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.799
on Monster Talk, this is not
a man looking for new information. This

459
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.039
is a man trying to just tell
you how you're wrong fifteen different ways,

460
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.640
and stay tuned for more sasquatch Obasy
will be right back after these messages.

461
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.279
That's not skepticism, and it's frustrating
to me because I count myself as a

462
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:19.000
skeptic. Now, I'm a skeptic
who has had experiences. I've been in

463
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.720
the woods and I've seen the friggin'
apes, right, So there's only so

464
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.319
much skepticism I can bring to the
entire concept of sasquatch. That doesn't mean

465
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.920
that every piece of information that comes
to me now I'm going to accept because

466
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.680
I know personally that they're real.
I'm still going to approach them skeptically.

467
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.279
And there are other subjects outside of
Bigfoot that I'll approach skeptically. But I'm

468
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:41.680
not going to go so far as
to say that, for example, ghosts

469
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.599
don't exist. I will say I
have no idea what they are. And

470
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.519
I will say that there is actual
phenomena that gets recorded. I don't know

471
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.200
where it comes from. I don't
know what it means. And I think

472
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.640
that a lot of things that are
said by people who go look for it

473
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:57.279
seem to be a bit presumptuous.
Now you don't know that these are the

474
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.400
spirits of dead people, you know. It is one of the funny things

475
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.240
people make, these declarative statements about
what this stuff is. We don't know

476
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.680
anything. So I will sit here
skeptically and say that evidence that you collect

477
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:11.559
does not necessarily support the argument you
make, but it is still evidence you

478
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.680
collect. So I will sit here
and suspend my judgment until such time as

479
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.759
you can bring me something that's actually
new or unique or in some way conclusive.

480
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.039
But that's different than just saying,
well, ghosts are a bunch of

481
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:23.559
shit and people who look for them
are stupid. Before I get torn to

482
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:30.880
shreds and accused of being this skeptic, bashing proponent, I am twice as

483
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.480
critical of the proponent side as I
am the skeptical side, because I think

484
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:38.240
that you have to keep your own
house in order before you can go and

485
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:42.519
criticize anybody else. Clean up your
own backyard. We have that problem in

486
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:48.519
spades. We have people who,
without any personal experiences or without any evidence,

487
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.799
will sit there and just say declaratively, sash Squatch exists absolutely. You

488
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.680
know, people who will believe every
report they read. People who will believe

489
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.319
in evidence even after that evidence has
been brought into quequestion, or or even

490
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:04.920
worse, once it's been refuted.
I mean, there's evidence out there that's

491
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.519
been presented and debunked, thoroughly debunked, and yet people will still support it.

492
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:13.960
And that's just as bad. And
we as skeptical for opponents. As

493
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.440
you said, it's our duty to
try to more importantly, to be our

494
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:22.839
own stanchiest critics. One thing that
I've warned about in the past and I

495
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.720
warn about it now is once you
have something happen to you, it is

496
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:32.319
easy to get bigfoot itis. You
can have an experience and it starts to

497
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.920
wear away at that skepticism. It
happened to me, so obviously if somebody

498
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:38.759
else says it happened to them,
it did, well, you can't be

499
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:43.880
that way. You still have to
be skeptical. You still have to question

500
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:47.759
what's brought before you. Even though
you personally know that they're real, it

501
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.720
doesn't mean that someone else isn't going
to come along and lie to you.

502
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.319
I think that's a really good point
that the big question you need to get

503
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:59.799
over is are they real? Do
they exist or not? And once you

504
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.440
do that, this a tendency in
some people let their guard down and become

505
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:06.680
much less to not analyze the stuff
that's been put in front of them,

506
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:08.240
or not to take it quite as
seriously or look into it as deeply as

507
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.599
they should, because the big question
has been answered. Therefore everything else is

508
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.240
a little question. So it's important
not to let that happen to you.

509
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.079
Once you quote unquote know, you
need to understand that there's still quite a

510
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.759
bit of crap out there. The
way that works with me personally is I

511
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:28.720
go to the BFF now to answer
questions about what's happened over the summer,

512
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:30.920
what the TBRC is doing, and
I see all these other threads. What

513
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:35.279
I find is that in the past
I would have been interested to get in

514
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.759
on those threads perhaps, or at
least to read what people were saying.

515
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.240
Now I don't care as much because
it's different for me now than it was

516
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.440
then. You know, it's not
quite as theoretical, and there are some

517
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:50.359
conversations that I just don't have any
interest in expending brain cells on. It's

518
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.839
a hard thing to describe. But
on the one hand, my interest is

519
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.359
sharper and more finely honed now.
But at the same time, there's a

520
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.319
lot of stuff that I just I
don't care about anymore, right Like,

521
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:05.920
honestly, I have no interest in
trying to defend the PGF. You know,

522
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.480
I think it's real, But what's
the point of talking about it anymore?

523
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:12.280
Who cares? Do you see what
I'm saying? Am I making any

524
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.800
sense? Care less? I just
want to put it out there as an

525
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:16.639
example, But so fine, Yah
Memorial Day footage which I never really cared

526
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:20.599
about anyway. But where I find
myself now, and I'm not going to

527
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.039
say it's like this to everybody,
but where I find myself now, the

528
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.400
number of things that I actually care
about in the field have gotten much smaller.

529
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.880
I would say that probably seventy or
eighty percent of the stuff that gets

530
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:35.719
talked about I just couldn't care less
about it anymore. But part of me

531
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.000
is like whatever you know, You
guys talk about whatever you want with regard

532
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:40.599
to you know whether or not,
I don't know. I can't even give

533
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:44.719
you a good example. On the
one hand, I've just lost the stomach

534
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:46.559
for a lot of it. I
mean, there is just so much hate

535
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.440
and animosity. You see these threads
where people are, I mean, you

536
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.320
can just imagine them red faced as
they pound away on the keyboard, just

537
00:34:54.519 --> 00:35:00.760
wearing their keyboards out. For me, I have no desire at all to

538
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.960
be a part of any of that. On another level, there's some things

539
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.119
that, like you said, they
just don't interest me. I mean,

540
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:13.480
I'm so far beyond things like the
Freeman footage and the PGF. It has

541
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.760
no importance to me. I don't
need need the pg I don't need the

542
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:22.920
Freeman footage, right, And I
think for some people that's why they stay

543
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.320
in those subjects so deeply as they
do. They need that particular thing to

544
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.800
support their ideas and support their belief
dermal Ridges. There was a time when

545
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.800
that mattered to me because I was
on the proponents side, and as a

546
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.840
proponent who at that point was desperate
for proof and for evidence, that really

547
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:45.039
buoyed me up, that really supported
my ideas and my beliefs. But now

548
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:49.559
so far removed from that doesn't carry
any more weight for me. But there

549
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.880
are things, particularly things that I've
experienced or things that I know others have

550
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:58.079
experienced who I believe, you know, when I see those things come up,

551
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:00.599
that really does catch my interest.
Right at the same time, I

552
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.760
have to fight from becoming to my
opic. I can just focus on those

553
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.760
things that I've experienced or that support
my own experiences. I do have to

554
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.920
look outside that and look at things
that can be critical or skeptical. Right.

555
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.840
Dan asked a question that multiple people
have asked in one form or another,

556
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:20.840
and I'm just going to bring a
piece of it. So many people

557
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:22.960
claiming to have had sightings of sasquatch. Could you perhaps talk about how with

558
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.719
so many people who were out there
in the woods for the sole purpose of

559
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.920
attaining evidence of this creature were able
to have numerous sightings and not get one

560
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.960
single picture of anything. You would
think at least one would be prepared to

561
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.760
take action at such time. I
think there's two things here. There's the

562
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:42.199
question of why are there no pictures
of Bigfoot? And we've touched on this

563
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.000
in the show in the past.
Taking a picture of a wild animal encounter

564
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.199
is difficult. Usually if you just
stumble upon them. It happens very quickly,

565
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.519
and there's no way to get the
camera up and on because cameras are

566
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:54.840
all electric and have to be turned
on. The amount of time of the

567
00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:00.360
encounter is not of sufficient duration to
get a picture that would mean anything.

568
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:02.519
Also, you have to just get
over the surprise of having the encounter to

569
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.880
begin with. My specific encounter,
when we saw the things run up the

570
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.639
hill, just happened too quickly.
I think even Mark mccluchin had a camera

571
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.480
either on him or near him,
he didn't even think to grab it because

572
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.639
it happened so quickly. All I
can say is that the typical profile of

573
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:24.000
an encounter period and the typical profile
of the encounter in X are the same.

574
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:30.360
They happen at an unexpected time.
They're typically over very quickly. We're

575
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:35.760
talking a matter of seconds. The
longest encounter that I'm aware of that took

576
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:42.559
place from somebody on our team in
X was actually fairly recently. It was

577
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.920
a situation where the animal was come
upon. The entire sighting happened over the

578
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:51.760
course of several seconds, so theoretically
it would have been long enough for someone

579
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:53.960
to take a picture, but that
person did not have a camera on them.

580
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:58.320
In fact, had nothing on them, not a weapon or a camera

581
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.840
or anything that could have been used
to collect a bestment, because they were

582
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.039
not expecting to come upon it.
So in that case, the surprise of

583
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.199
the situation, even though the encounter
happened over the course of several seconds,

584
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.519
they were not prepared for anything.
And if they had turned and run off

585
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.039
to grab a camera or gun or
a DNA dart or something like that and

586
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:21.199
come back, it would have been
over. So what happens again, me

587
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.360
speaking for myself, I've made the
decision a long time ago that unless I

588
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:30.400
am fully prepared to do something at
the very moment it happens by some strange

589
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:37.440
happenstance of luck. I'm not going
to waste the experience by trying to fumble

590
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.960
with a camera or pull my phone
out, because the experience is incredibly rare

591
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.519
and it isn't going to last long
enough, you know. And then there's

592
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:46.760
the part of me that says,
and so what if we got a picture,

593
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:52.159
because chances are that picture would be
dismissed. Right, It's not going

594
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:54.480
to be very good, and it
will be dismissed. You know. It's

595
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:58.079
not an Olin Mills studio out there, and we're just waiting for the Bigfoot

596
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.559
to walk in front of the you
know, modeled blue back ground so we

597
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.039
can get a senior picture. Is
there? You are a shot? I

598
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:06.400
mean, it's so I don't want
to. On the one hand, I

599
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.320
think it's a perfectly valid question,
and it's the exact same kind of question

600
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:14.079
that I would have had prior to
putting myself in the position to be able

601
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:15.559
to answer the question. I guess, so I don't want to belittle it.

602
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:19.079
I don't want to throw it out. But the reality is that these

603
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.519
encounters happen so quickly, the opportunity
to do anything is very, very poor.

604
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:24.719
I've been talking to a lot of
people about this recently, so I

605
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.280
may be incorrect about this, but
it's like, well, why haven't you

606
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.000
shot one. It's like, all
these encounters you talk about, it seems

607
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:35.320
incredible that you haven't been able to
shoot one yet. Again, now I'm

608
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:37.679
not even taking a picture, right, You're asking me, why have I

609
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:42.199
not fired a deadly weapon at something? Well, because one of the very

610
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.880
first rules of firing a gun is
know what you're shooting at right. And

611
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:52.159
again, if you're talking about something
that happens extraordinarily quickly, by the time

612
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.960
you can make that judgment, the
opportunity has often left. I would guess

613
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.880
that hunters have that situation all of
the time. Many shots do you not

614
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:05.599
take versus the ones that you do
take? And last year I saw a

615
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.119
lot of deer during deer season.
I took three shots on all the deer

616
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.800
that I saw. There were numerous
times when I let them walk because I

617
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:16.079
knew I wasn't close enough, I
didn't have a clear enough shot right,

618
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.920
you know, I wasn't positioned correctly. I made the decision and I'll let

619
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:23.679
them go. I think a lot
of this is from people who don't know

620
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:27.320
that. I'm not a hunter,
but I've been around enough of them now

621
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.159
that I know what you're talking about. There's two things that people think who

622
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:35.360
don't who aren't around firearms and don't
hunt a all guns are the same.

623
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.000
They're all powerful and every single gun, if you have a gun on you,

624
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:43.000
you can kill anything, which is
not true because there's different calibers,

625
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:45.800
there's different types of guns, there's
different kinds of loads, and there's different

626
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.800
kinds of animals. So just because
you are armed does not mean that you

627
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:52.920
can kill something that you see.
Secondarily to your point, the shot matters,

628
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:58.039
can I collect what I just saw? You know, when you see

629
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.119
something tearing away at you at thirty
miles an hour up a mountain side,

630
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.119
even if you did hit it,
chances are you're not going to be able

631
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.480
to get it right. And so
if you're making that judgment call, more

632
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.880
often than not, the judgment call
is to not fire. All I can

633
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:16.679
say is that's how it works.
Going back to the photo thing, there's

634
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:22.400
an inverse relationship between the quality of
photo you can get and your ability to

635
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:29.880
get a photo. If you really
wanted to get that national geographic cover photo,

636
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:36.159
you need some serious photographic equipment,
and a lot of cases that equipment

637
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.400
slows you down. It slows down
your reaction time, it slows down you

638
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:42.480
know how quickly you can get on
a subject. Then, depending on how

639
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.199
much it is it slows you down. You know, when you're lugging around

640
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:50.239
battery packs and big cameras and big
telephoto lenses and things like that, that's

641
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:54.599
going to affect your mobility. Conversely, if you are nimble and light,

642
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.159
quick to react, chances are what
you have with you is very poor quality.

643
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.599
Like you said, it's going to
be a camera phone or a little

644
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:07.760
digital camera and you're not going to
get the quality photo that's going to convince

645
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:12.760
anybody either way. That said,
it is a legitimate criticism, and my

646
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:15.360
challenge would be to people out there, to the proponents and even to the

647
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:21.480
skeptics, crowdsource a solution. Put
your collective ideas together. Find a way

648
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.320
where you can take someone and put
them out there in the field and have

649
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:29.239
them be mobile and be able to
be dynamic in that environment and at the

650
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:35.199
same time be capable of capturing a
very fast, good quality photo. When

651
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:38.119
you figure out how to do it
and make it economical, enough to that

652
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:43.280
fridge Bigfoot can actually afford it,
then you're going to be talking. One

653
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.360
of the things that was talked about
on the BFF GO programmers and multiple people

654
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:50.679
brought up cameras and these are the
little wearable digital cameras that shoot in high

655
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.280
definition video, and those are great. I own two of them myself.

656
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.079
The TVRC has a couple of them. The challenge we've had with those cameras

657
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.199
is maintaining them. Is not is
just sticking it on your body and going

658
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.119
out, because of course they have
batteries. The batteries run out, the

659
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:07.039
cards fill up. You have to
maintain them. You have to take care

660
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.360
of them. You have to keep
the batteries charged. I did a reconnaissance

661
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:14.480
of the mountain side when we were
replacing some cameras, and I had the

662
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:16.239
go pro going the whole time I
was up there was out there about two

663
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.079
hours. By the time I got
back, the card was almost full.

664
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.400
I had two batteries on that camera
and they were essentially dead. So when

665
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:27.960
I got back, I was almost
out of time. So that's two hours.

666
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:30.480
So that means I have to carry
to cover normal daylight hours, I

667
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:34.400
have to have six batteries on me. I have to have multiple cards.

668
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.639
I have to then be able to
recharge all those batteries, which turned out

669
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:39.480
to be kind of a challenge this
past summer, we're looking into other ways

670
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:45.920
of doing that. I think you
see shows like Destination Truth or even Finding

671
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:50.079
Bigfoot or Dirty Jobs with Mike Row
and they're using these cameras and they seem

672
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:52.679
ubiquitous, and they seem to be
always on, and they can be,

673
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:57.159
but they can also be a challenge
to maintain and to use. So some

674
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:01.079
of our members have tried to use
them with mixed results. Again, it

675
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:06.840
only matters if they can collect every
single thing, and in some cases in

676
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.800
practice they're difficult to maintain, you
know, twenty four to seven essentially,

677
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.639
So I mean, why don't you
wear go pros? We do wear GoPros.

678
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.920
Not everyone has a go pro on
them at all times. We don't

679
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:17.960
have enough for every single person.
We certainly don't have enough batteries to go

680
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.599
around. You mentioned the manpower you
have to put into using to go back

681
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.960
and actually review right all those hours
of footage. Right now, we have

682
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:34.119
one and a half terabytes of data
that have not been reviewed. That's from

683
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.920
audio recorders. That's from the plot
Watcher time lapse cameras, that's from game

684
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:43.880
cams. That's how much stuff we're
sitting on right now. That's just because

685
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:49.199
we have like eight of these Plotwatcher
cameras that are shooting pictures every five seconds

686
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.639
or whatever it is, throughout the
daylight hours. So these cameras are just

687
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:59.079
generating a massive amount of stuff that
you have to look at. We may

688
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:00.599
have a picture of a way right
now. We don't even know about it.

689
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:05.000
We probably don't, because you know, we've been out there looking to

690
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.159
take pictures for quite a long time
and have never gotten anything. But that's

691
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:10.159
just a lot of crap. Man, that's a lot of stuff to go

692
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:14.199
through. How many eyeballs do you
have and how much free time do they

693
00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:16.719
have? And then you get into
the problem of actually moving that data.

694
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.559
They had to ship me a hard
drive so that I could take that data

695
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.760
and stick it on an FTP server, and now people have to download that

696
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:29.519
stuff. I mean, it's just
moving this stuff around can be a challenge

697
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.199
in and of itself. I'm not
saying that all of this and these are

698
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:35.440
excuses, right, I completely acknowledge
that these are excuses. But they're also

699
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.079
valid excuses. The equipment is difficult
to maintain. The equipment cannot be running

700
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:42.920
twenty four to seven, and even
if it can be, when it can

701
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.679
be like some of the station ay
cameras can be, then you're left with

702
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:50.320
an incredible amount of stuff you have
to look at. We'll be looking at

703
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.079
this all winter long. I mean, I'm convinced that we will not.

704
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.760
Well. For instance, last year, when we found the audio of the

705
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.559
strange chattering sound like the samurai chatter
quote unquote, we found that months after

706
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:04.559
the fact, you know, I
think we found that not too long before

707
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.079
our conference, which was in October. We probably found that two months after

708
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:13.360
it had been recorded. So I
understand the frustration that people have. You

709
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.639
know, you have all these experiences. Why aren't you shooting them? Why

710
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:17.840
aren't you taking pictures of them?
And all I can say is that it

711
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.960
happens very quickly, and the technology
doesn't always cooperate, and a lot of

712
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:24.119
our guys they don't want to mess
with it. You know, we have

713
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:28.639
some guys who love to work with
the technology and the electronics, and then

714
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.360
we have other guys who don't and
don't want to have anything to do with

715
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:34.400
it, and that's just human nature. You can't expect everyone to have the

716
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:38.199
same level of comprehension or the same
sort of willingness to deal with with the

717
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:42.840
gear. I don't think there was
another question here that I wanted to answer

718
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.360
that I saw Ron man Reid says
what is the best bigfoot bait? And

719
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:50.320
I would say right now that people
are. My experience is they want to

720
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:53.440
see and interact with people. So
I don't know if that's a good answer

721
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:58.559
or not. But I can't tell
you like pancakes, I don't know if

722
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.199
I have pancakes. I have no
idea about pancake. Believe when you were

723
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.840
just talking, one of the things
that I was thinking about is one of

724
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:07.920
the charges is, you know,
how do these things know what a camera

725
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.719
is? How do they perceive that
you know that you're trying to photograph them

726
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:15.559
or you know you're trying to shoot
them. I don't think that's necessarily the

727
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:19.000
case right. One thing that I've
said for a long time, and it's

728
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.880
one thing that I kind of had
passed down to me a while back and

729
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:28.119
found to be true myself, is
that if you want to have your best

730
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.119
chance at activity if you think that
you're close to one of these things,

731
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.159
or more than one of these things, and you really want to improve your

732
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:38.920
chances of experiencing something, you need
to act like you are completely oblivious to

733
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:43.480
what is happening. And this is
one of those things where I'm saying something

734
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.599
that I personally know to be true
and have absolutely no way of backing up.

735
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:52.760
And I fully acknowledge that. But
I'm firmly convinced that when activity begins,

736
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.599
the best thing you can do is
to pretend that you're ignorant of it,

737
00:47:55.159 --> 00:48:00.199
because effectively, what's happening is these
things are trying to get a reaction

738
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:06.000
out of you, whether it's to
gauge your numbers, to intimidate you,

739
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.320
or just to mess with you for
the sheer sake of messing with you.

740
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:12.760
But I do know that there have
been times where things have started to happen

741
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.360
around me, and the longer I
could act like nothing was happening, the

742
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:22.079
more intense those interactions became. You
know, when you get up and you

743
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:25.280
react to that, that activity stops. It doesn't matter if you're just getting

744
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.920
up to look or if you're getting
up with a camera to try and take

745
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.519
a picture, or you're getting up
with a gun to try and take a

746
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:34.960
specimen. They don't know that.
All they know is that you are now

747
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:37.880
reacting, which means that you're aware
of their presence, and the last thing

748
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.440
they want is for you to be
able to come directly into contact with them,

749
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.559
so they immediately cease their activity.
Yeah, I agree with that.

750
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:51.360
I don't want to give too much
away of a particular case, but there

751
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:54.960
was somewhere I was at and there
was ongoing activity at this area. It

752
00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:00.079
became very clear, very quickly that
the second you try to get out there

753
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:02.960
to see one of these things,
or get out there with a camera,

754
00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:07.599
you hit as good as guaranteed that
nothing was going to happen. No,

755
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.679
for a skeptical person, it's very
easy to say, well, if these

756
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:14.199
things are coming up to these cabins, why aren't you out there getting their

757
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:17.280
picture. Well, they're coming up
to the cabin up to the point to

758
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:21.320
where you try to get the picture. It's very hard when you're in that

759
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:23.559
situation and you know that they're out
there, You know these things are happening,

760
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:28.159
but the second you step outside the
door, it's like they vaporize.

761
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.920
They just disappear in the thin air. Yeah, no, there's been.

762
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:35.960
This has been, So I'll open
I'll lift the tent a little bit and

763
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.119
say that within the TBRC, there's
been a lot of conversation about this,

764
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:45.679
the sort of like passive versus active
approaches. I think where I'm settling in

765
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:51.639
on is that there's a value both
approaches. But what I seem to favor,

766
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:55.400
and what I believe generates the most
activity, is when you are more

767
00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:00.199
passive. Because exactly what you say
when you hear a don't jump up and

768
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:04.360
run over to every single one of
them. I think that my own personal

769
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:08.719
opinion is that that reaction is what
they want. I think they're looking to

770
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:15.880
interact in some way they are clearly
not wanting to be, you know,

771
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.159
like they don't want you to walk
up on them, right. But it's

772
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:22.320
the case that the more passive you
are, I believe, based on what

773
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.400
we've seen, especially over this last
summer, but even last year as well,

774
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:29.639
the more you just sort of sit
there and let them come to you,

775
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:35.079
the closer they will get to you. And if you run after them,

776
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.079
I mean it's futile. You can't, you know, quote unquote catch

777
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:42.679
them. Because you're just not prepared
to operate over the terrain the same way

778
00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:45.559
they are. But I think you're
exactly right. The biggest mistake I made

779
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:51.559
over the course of my time down
the next this summer was when I saw

780
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:57.400
the eye shine in the trees on
the mountain side and I yelled out about

781
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:00.079
it. I was super uncool about
it, right, because I was really

782
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:05.039
surprised and I was pretty excited.
But I should have been a lot cooler

783
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.840
about it. I should have just
seen it and pretended like I didn't and

784
00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:10.039
I used a very normal tone of
voice. But I didn't. And I

785
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:15.360
think if I had any one thing
to do over, I think that I

786
00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:16.519
reacted the wrong way. If I
had been a little cooler about it,

787
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.880
I think that would have gone down
a different way. I think you're right.

788
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:22.280
I think that jumping up and running
out after every sound that you hear

789
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:27.559
is a mistake. Now, I
just said that because I'm being accused on

790
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:30.360
the j ref of being quote,
you know, a afraid of the dark.

791
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:34.519
B I cower in the cabin.
See, I don't understand that I

792
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:37.599
can use a flashlight in the dark
d I don't use my night vision,

793
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:42.840
So there's this perception that we just
sit in the cabin and shake when stuff

794
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:45.840
happens around. That's not the case. It is the case that we go

795
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:51.159
out and investigate sounds, that we
attempt to discover the source of sounds.

796
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.960
It's an innumerable number of times that
you hear something and you get up and

797
00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:00.280
you move, and sometimes that movement
also precipitates an interaction, not necessarily a

798
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:02.559
direct interaction. You know, in
the case of the ones that we actually

799
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.960
witnessed, that entire scenario unrolled over
the course of like an hour, and

800
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:13.519
it was because we were investigating sounds
in one area that it's possible that another

801
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:15.159
group of them came a little closer
to Kathy Strain when she was all by

802
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:19.719
herself. Now, I'm extrapolating what
we saw. I don't know this to

803
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.679
be the case, but it is
certainly not the case that anybody in the

804
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:28.280
TBRC is sitting in the cabin afraid
to turn a light, afraid to use

805
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:30.519
a flashlight, afraid to go outside. Now, and I've spoken face to

806
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.679
face with bigfoot researchers quote unquote who
tell me, oh, you can't go

807
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:37.239
outside your tent because if you do, they'll leave like, there's no way

808
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:40.199
I would go outside my tent to
find out what that noise was. That

809
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:44.760
isn't how the TBRC works. You
know, I'm not saying it's a crazy

810
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:46.159
extrapolation to say, well, you've
heard other people say that, so the

811
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:49.880
TBRC must be the same way.
That's not the case. We don't cower

812
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:52.360
in the cabin. I honestly don't
prefer to be in the cabin. I

813
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.079
prefer to be out of the cabin
because then you know where these sounds are

814
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:57.639
coming from. Right then you have
a better idea of the distance, and

815
00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:00.320
honestly, they don't get as close
when you're house the cabin. But otherwise

816
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.840
I think I pretty much agree with
you that playing it cool is oftentimes a

817
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:08.239
better strategy than otherwise. I wanted
to address that because I just I was

818
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:12.639
reading that this morning that apparently I
am afraid of the dark and hide into

819
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.519
the bed in the cabin. Big
wuss, I am. I have a

820
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:20.360
big fat woss. There are people
who are never going to put themselves in

821
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.159
a position to have an experience,
and then there are people who do put

822
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:27.800
themselves in a position to have an
experience. What I'm sensing now because I

823
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:30.480
am now firmly on the other side
that I have been out there, I

824
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:35.119
have had an experience that some people, not everyone. I don't mean to

825
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:38.559
overgeneralize, but there are some people
who get kind of cranky about it because

826
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:44.760
you don't produce a meaningful piece of
evidence that they want. You know,

827
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.679
it's like you went out there and
did this, and then you said this

828
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:51.440
thing happened, and you didn't bring
back a picture that I want to see.

829
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.119
They have sort of like this,
like they're entitled to the evidence.

830
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:59.000
I guess this gets back to what
we were talking about earlier in whether or

831
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:01.360
not I would go for a can. If I put myself out in the

832
00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:07.320
woods and I'm having an experience,
the priority is for me, not for

833
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:10.280
anybody else. I want to have
the experience that I'm having. If I

834
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:15.400
see something and I know it's going
to be fleeting, I don't care about

835
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:20.239
some random guy on the Internet having
a picture to look at. And that's

836
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.239
from both sides. That's from the
proponent and the skeptical side. There are

837
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:27.559
people who are on the proponent side
who, you know, if you're going

838
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.119
out in the woods, they fully
expect that you come back and share every

839
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:34.719
single thing that you did with them, you know, and not because they're

840
00:54:34.719 --> 00:54:38.400
taking part in any investigative effort.
It's just strictly from a sense of entitlement.

841
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:42.079
You know, I need something new
to look at, I need something

842
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.960
new to talk about or to buoy
out my faith, and by God,

843
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.760
you better deliver it, like or
the Discovery Channel or something like. It's

844
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:51.760
a yeah, exactly right. You
know, there's a lot of things that

845
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:54.559
don't make it out there fair.
A lot of it is just minutia.

846
00:54:55.239 --> 00:55:00.679
How many times have you been out
there and you experience it's something that's so

847
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:07.000
uncertain, that's debatable, that it's
not even worth talking about, you know.

848
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:08.719
And then there are things that you
don't mention because if you do,

849
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:13.920
you will be ridiculed. Things that
you're just like, I cannot even believe

850
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.880
that just happened. And there is
no way in hell I am ever going

851
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:20.320
to tell anybody about that, because
as soon as that gets out there,

852
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:22.280
it's going to be like on some
T shirt somewhere, right, So there's

853
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:28.000
no way. I'm on a personal
level, there are things that I've shared

854
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:34.079
with other people that I truly regret
sharing, you know, it doesn't change

855
00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:37.599
the fact that it happened, and
it doesn't change the fact that it's something

856
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:45.360
that I experienced. But I really
regret sharing that because in those instances,

857
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.719
it was something that I was sharing
with someone who had not experienced the same

858
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.480
thing and didn't have the same reference
or perspective that I had on it.

859
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:58.239
You could really see the impact that
it had. When you have someone who

860
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.239
you consider to be a friend and
associate and you share something with them and

861
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:06.960
that person looks at you like your
batshit crazy. That hurts. There's no

862
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:09.320
other way to put it right.
It's made me more reluctant in some cases

863
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:14.880
to share certain things, not because
I don't think I'll be believed or because

864
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:20.480
it somehow changes the reality of what
happened. Absolutely I know exactly what you're

865
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:25.719
talking about. There's also the fact
that telling your experiences is actually a lot

866
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.400
harder than not telling your experiences.
Relating these stories and you know you said

867
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:37.280
this, but actually putting these things
out there is so much harder than because

868
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:40.880
of the reaction you get from people
who are not willing to do even the

869
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.119
tiniest bit of background understanding, right, They're not willing to do any kind

870
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:49.840
of studying at all of what you're
saying. They just listen to some synopsis

871
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.639
of what you said and attack you
forward. But going out there and putting

872
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:57.199
yourself out there takes a lot more
effort than not and just sitting on your

873
00:56:57.199 --> 00:57:00.559
stuff. And I don't say that
that's not whining, that's not me claiming

874
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:05.440
any sort of special privilege. That's
just me saying that I don't think that

875
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:07.519
until you do it, you can
understand it. But putting yourself out there

876
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.519
and telling your friends, even just
your friends and family. I'm not talking

877
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:15.960
about publicizing it for the entire Internet, but just putting yourself out there is

878
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:20.119
harder than just keeping it inside and
never telling anybody what you've experienced except for

879
00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:22.400
the people who experienced it with you. I want to get to these sounds

880
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.840
that we're going to play. I've
already promised this on Facebook's these two sounds.

881
00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:29.280
Then, because of the way we
record the show, I'm not going

882
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:31.199
to be able to play them so
that you can hear them. But I

883
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:35.719
think you've already heard them. I've
listened to both of them, and I

884
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:37.800
have a couple of questions about one
of them. So what I'm going to

885
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.800
do is I'm going to play this
for myself right now to refresh my memory

886
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:43.599
and maybe saying you're going to hear
it. The first thing you're going to

887
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:46.880
hear this is from a team who
was just in x over labor day.

888
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:51.119
So I'll give you a quick scenario
here. What happened is we had an

889
00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:54.559
equipment retrieval team go in a couple
of weeks ago. There was an encounter,

890
00:57:54.840 --> 00:58:00.840
pretty significant encounter, so another team
went in over labor day to follow

891
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:02.880
up on that. We're not used
to having, you know, it isn't

892
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:07.159
like we have years and years of
experience with this level of activity, but

893
00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:09.559
based on last year of twenty eleven, we were not expecting there to be

894
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:14.360
much activity in the fall. But
there has been this fall for whatever reason.

895
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:17.760
So a team went in last weekend
to try to collect some evidence.

896
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:22.039
They had an audio recorder going.
They had some very interesting things happened to

897
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:24.480
them, things that were on the
one hand, both very familiar, but

898
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:28.440
on the other hand, very different
and new. So the first thing I'm

899
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:32.119
going to play is a single rock
throw. This is a rock that has

900
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:37.840
been thrown off the mountain side.
You can hear it coming in through the

901
00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:39.920
trees. You can hear it hit
the roof, and then you can hear

902
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.119
it fall off an impact with the
ground. So I'm going to play the

903
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:58.280
sound right now. So you've listened
to that sound, and I've just played

904
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.719
it for everybody else. So yeah, yeah, there you go. I

905
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:02.719
mean, as I said, you
can hear this sound. This is recorded

906
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:07.079
in the morning. If I'm correct
about that, I think i am again.

907
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:08.800
You can hear this rock coming in. You can hear it impacting branches

908
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.639
on the way down. You can
hear it hitting the roof of the cabin

909
00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:14.559
with a very loud noise. You
can hear it sort of bouncing off the

910
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:15.880
roof of the cabin, and you
can hear a thumping on the ground.

911
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:20.639
I mean, this is one instance. It's probably one of the best recordings

912
00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:22.639
of a rock impact that we have
because you can hear the entire event.

913
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:27.119
You can hear the trajectory, the
impact, the tumble, and the fall

914
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.400
of the ground all in one sort
of neat package. Is that the one

915
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:31.440
you had a question about or is
it the next time? No, No,

916
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:35.159
it was the other one. It
was a comment you made about the

917
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:37.679
other one that got me thinking about
some things. I'll let you play it

918
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:44.360
first and then the next sound.
The whole file, the whole clip that

919
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:45.679
I have is eight minutes long.
I'm not going to play the whole eight

920
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:51.960
minutes. But what this is within
the group, we're sort of using the

921
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.719
shorthand, we're calling it rain.
It's not rain, it's debris. It's

922
00:59:54.800 --> 01:00:00.639
debris being thrown onto the cabin.
Debris that consists of nuts and nut husks

923
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:06.920
and twigs and rocks. To us
what it sounds like. And this is

924
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:10.519
open for interpretation because this is brand
new behavior. We have never observed this

925
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:16.760
behavior before. But the team that
was in there recorded on the recorder this

926
01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:22.079
sound, this particular instance was the
longest period of time that had happened.

927
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:23.760
So I'm going to play a little
bit of this for you so you get

928
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:30.800
an idea of what it sounds like. Right now, stay tuned for more

929
01:00:30.840 --> 01:02:22.480
sasquatch out to see. We'll be
right back after these messages. So what's

930
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:27.199
incredible to me about this is that
it goes on for such an extending period

931
01:02:27.199 --> 01:02:30.880
of time. You listen to this
noise and it went on for a really

932
01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:34.800
long time. It sort of decreases
envolumement, then increases. What happened this

933
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:37.320
morning while this was happening, one
of our guys actually came out of the

934
01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:39.320
cabin. They were asleep, right, It's early in the morning when this

935
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:43.119
happens. He came out of the
cabin, was on the front porch,

936
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:46.599
which is opposite the side of the
cabin. We believe that that's when he

937
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:52.039
went on the porch, but as
soon as he went around the side of

938
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:53.960
the cabin on this particular morning,
I think this was recorded the last morning

939
01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:57.599
they were in there, so it
would have been on Labor day. He

940
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:01.960
hears something animal moving in the brush
away from him, so on the j

941
01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:05.199
rough what I may hear is like, well, you hear this, why

942
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:07.440
don't you go out and do thing
about it. In the case of this,

943
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:09.559
they went out each and every time
they heard this. Somebody went outside

944
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:15.719
each time, and every time they
went outside they heard something large in the

945
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:20.239
brush which is incredibly thick. They've
heard them moving away and they move up

946
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:22.519
the slope. There's no way you
can chase after them. This is not

947
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:24.440
possible. You're going to take my
word for it. Someday, hopefully it'll

948
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:27.360
be a national park. You can
come in there and try for yourself.

949
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:30.119
But right now, there's no way
you're going to chase after these things.

950
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:31.880
If they're moving up the hill,
you can't see it. You know.

951
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.519
Sometimes if you're lucky, you can
see some bushes moving, but you don't

952
01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:37.159
see the actual animal. What's really
intriguing to me about this, and then

953
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:40.719
we'll get to Sam's question, is
that it's brand new behavior that we have

954
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:45.719
not heard before. It is some
kind of escalation of rock throwing. Whether

955
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.119
or not that means some people in
the group think that maybe they're getting more

956
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.599
agitated. Some people in the group
think that they're just trying to figure out

957
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:55.239
new ways to mix us up and
get us to come out and play.

958
01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:59.199
I don't know. All I know
is that it's brand new behavior. It's

959
01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:01.800
not behavior that we recorded before,
and it's not behavior that anyone has ever

960
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:05.840
said to us that they've experienced before. I believe that's a completely true sameent.

961
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:09.719
It's certainly the first time we've ever
gotten on audio. What was your

962
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:14.360
question, Sam, You made a
comment about clearing the roof off to make

963
01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:17.119
sure that what was up there was
actually being deposited this way. Yeah,

964
01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:20.719
it got me thinking. I have
a friend who lives in southwest Arkansas,

965
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:27.239
and he's reported similar activity with rock
throwing into brie throwing. He had commented

966
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.519
along the same lines that they would
go out in the morning with a five

967
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.119
gallon bucket and walk the backside of
their yard picking up these little rocks and

968
01:04:34.119 --> 01:04:38.480
pebbles and things that have been thrown
in, and then the very next day

969
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:42.199
it would be repeated, Yeah,
for the people who are listening, how

970
01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:45.800
much stuff are you talking about?
Well, we've tried to recreate this,

971
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.000
and the amount, the volume of
stuff you have to throw to make it

972
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:55.599
sound like this is incredible. I'm
not even convinced that one individual could do

973
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:59.199
this. They would be just constantly
churning their hands, scooping stuff up and

974
01:04:59.199 --> 01:05:03.039
throwing it. So me it doesn't
necessarily sound like a single individual, but

975
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:05.559
there is quite a bit of volume. I don't know the answer to that

976
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:10.800
specifically, because I have not heard
our guys talk about how much of this

977
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:13.679
stuff was on the roof. I
do know that they went up on the

978
01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:15.119
roof. I do know that they
cleared the roof. You know, we

979
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:19.199
would clear the roof of all stuff, and then in the next day or

980
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:23.599
a few days later, you would
find a certain number of rocks that they're

981
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:26.599
half a dozen rocks, maybe more, of all sizes, some big ones,

982
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:29.639
some little ones. But you would
find a collection of rocks. I

983
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:31.079
know there were teams that, you
know, they would pull the rocks down

984
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:33.920
and they'd keep them, you know, because they're pretty cool souvenirs. There

985
01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:38.039
was a thought at one point that
we might be able to extract fingerprints or

986
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.000
some sort of dermal evidence off of
them, but from what we've been told,

987
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.760
that's probably not the case, so
we're not really exploring that option anymore.

988
01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:45.880
It's also the case that a lot
of these rocks, like you heard

989
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:49.280
in the first clip, that rock
came in impacted and rolled off. So

990
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:54.159
there's a certain number of rocks that
don't stay on the roof as well.

991
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:57.199
So as far as volume goes,
I would say, you know a lot

992
01:05:57.199 --> 01:05:59.960
more rocks than you would expect to
be on your roof for no apparent reason,

993
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.000
but probably in the neighborhood of a
dozen or so, depending on how

994
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:05.119
often you get up there to clear
them off. The rock throwing happens all

995
01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:10.679
the time. It's like every single
night, every single morning, and you're

996
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:13.519
gonna get held in by rocks.
Well, I'm glad to hear you mentioned

997
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:17.159
about you know that you had the
conversation about testing the rocks for DNA or

998
01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:21.519
fingerprints, because that's something that I'd
seen someone bring up and honestly I didn't

999
01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:26.480
know the answer to it. Well, what we've done and critics will take

1000
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:29.639
this for what it's worth is,
you know, our go to fingerprint guy

1001
01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:34.239
is you know the quote unquote Bigfoot
fingerprint expert Jimmy chilcut Jimmy Chilcutt has said

1002
01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:36.679
to us that you're not going to
get a fingerprint off a rock. I

1003
01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:41.360
mean, it's not going to happen. So that's what he's advised us.

1004
01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:45.159
So we've decided not to pursue that. Could you get DNA off of it?

1005
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:46.239
It seems like of all the ways
you could get DNA off of a

1006
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:49.400
rock would be kind of dicey because
God knows what else is on that rock,

1007
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:53.639
right There could be bacteria on that
rock when you touch the rock,

1008
01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:55.920
you know, if you're not wearing
the right kind of gloves or whatever.

1009
01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:58.800
So DNA, I don't know if
you could pull DNF off a rock like

1010
01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:00.360
that, it doesn't seem to me
like it would be a very high quality

1011
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:03.719
piece of evidence if you could,
but it's possible you could. Our thought

1012
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:08.880
was primarily around dermal ridges and could
you get a fingerprint or something similar off

1013
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.599
of a rock. And the best
answer we've got is no. It might

1014
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:15.159
be opening up a can of worms
to mention it. But one thing I

1015
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:20.400
can't help to think about is that
particular activity, that rain of debris and

1016
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:26.840
rocks and things. It's something that
I've also heard mentioned in Poulter Gey's activity,

1017
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:31.559
that debris rain on and I think
specifically, and I may be crossing

1018
01:07:31.599 --> 01:07:34.480
my legends or whatever, but it
seems like that was one of the things

1019
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:39.239
that the bell which was alleged to
have done, was to have hurled all

1020
01:07:39.320 --> 01:07:42.719
kinds of sticks and rocks onto the
house and get the people in the vicinity.

1021
01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:45.039
Yeah, well there you go.
On top of everything else. If

1022
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:47.639
that place is haunted, then I'm
done. It's over. I'm finished.

1023
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:53.480
If there's a friggin witch and what
apes, No, I'm not going for

1024
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:56.199
that. I never signed up for
that crap. I'm from the South and

1025
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:59.239
we know better than the mess with
the dead. So I'm glad I was

1026
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:00.719
able to put that on the show. You know, I took it to

1027
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:03.719
the to the powers that be over
there. I'm kind of a power to

1028
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:05.440
be, but you know, in
this kind of case, I'm not going

1029
01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:09.280
to take advantage of my access,
and I'm glad I was able to share

1030
01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:13.159
that. I'm sure there'll be a
lot of conversation about it in certain quarters.

1031
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:15.720
You know, there are people out
there who are just absolutely convinced that

1032
01:08:15.720 --> 01:08:19.479
we're being hoaxed. And I guess
that's the most charitable group of skeptics that

1033
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.720
I can find. You know,
they're not the ones who think we're stupid.

1034
01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:25.399
They're not the ones who necessarily say
that we're afraid of the dark.

1035
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:28.840
They're not the ones who say we
are ourselves hoaxing. These are the ones

1036
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:31.800
who say that we are the unwitting
victims of human hoaxing. One of the

1037
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:34.520
guys on the j REF, who
also posts on the BFF, said that

1038
01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:40.680
we are quote unquote ripe for it
because we want to experience it so badly.

1039
01:08:40.960 --> 01:08:45.239
This isn't going to help that because
it sounds amazing and it is amazing,

1040
01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.560
but we can recreate it. So
if I can recreate it, then

1041
01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:53.000
for one else career, so a
human hoaxer, but just the idea that

1042
01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:56.399
someone would be there every time we
go in there. I don't know,

1043
01:08:56.479 --> 01:08:58.760
go ahead, because I'm going to
want one. I mean, that's a

1044
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.079
legitimate thing to say. Sure,
you know you're going out there, And

1045
01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:06.760
honestly, I think there are instances
in the history of Bigfoot where people have

1046
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:12.600
succumbed to exactly that. You know, they've wanted it to happen so bad

1047
01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:16.239
and they've put in so much time
and so much effort into having an experience

1048
01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:24.239
that they've become gullible, or even
worse, they get so desperate that they

1049
01:09:24.319 --> 01:09:29.279
begin to create it themselves in order
to fulfill that need, you know,

1050
01:09:29.319 --> 01:09:31.960
either for their own benefit or to
put one over on other people. But

1051
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:35.399
it is something you have to be
consciously aware of. You have to be

1052
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:39.800
self aware of the fact that if
you're going out there with this desire,

1053
01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:44.159
you have to be ready for the
fact that there are going to be people

1054
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.119
who would want to take advantage of
it. Of course, is one of

1055
01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:51.560
the main reasons why we've tried not
to put the location out there, because

1056
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:56.439
if no one knows where you are, or relatively no one knows where you

1057
01:09:56.439 --> 01:09:58.560
are, then it would be difficult
for them to hoaxe you. All I

1058
01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:00.600
can say in return to that is
that if they're hoaxing us, this is

1059
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:05.119
a scenario that we're operating under if
the TBRC is being hoaxed. These are

1060
01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:12.479
a group of people who spent ninety
days with us in X. We didn't

1061
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:15.720
publish when we were going out there, so presumably this is an inside job

1062
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:17.319
because we didn't tell anybody what date
we were going to start, but we

1063
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:20.720
had activity from the very beginning.
This is a group of people who are

1064
01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:25.600
out there all the time with us. They operate with impunity over the terrain

1065
01:10:25.640 --> 01:10:29.079
there. They can move incredible speeds
through the bush, up the hills,

1066
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:31.880
across the rocks. They've somehow been
able to wear costumes to make themselves appear

1067
01:10:31.960 --> 01:10:38.439
to be eight feet tall and half
as wide. Right, they will be

1068
01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:42.279
okay wearing these big freeze and they
have more than one obviously, because we've

1069
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.840
seen animals of different size, different
colors, different proportions. We've seen the

1070
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:49.239
big gray one who's very thick and
very solid and large. I think Mark

1071
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:54.319
described it as a bull standing up
like that big. Plus there's littler ones,

1072
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:58.479
black ones, brown ones. So
they've got multiple suits that they're wearing

1073
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.439
out there. They're wearing these furry
suits in the depths of summer in Oklahoma,

1074
01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:06.880
which is just brutally hot. I
don't know how hot Hell is,

1075
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:11.720
but I'm going to say it's pretty
close to Oklahoma in this summer. Unbelievably

1076
01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:15.079
hot, just nasty. But not
only are they wearing these these furry suits

1077
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:20.560
with contraptions to make them appear very
large, but they're doing it around people

1078
01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:26.039
who have said they're going to shoot
one if they have the opportunity. I'm

1079
01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:30.119
not saying that it is absolutely impossible. The TBORC has never been hoxed.

1080
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.399
What I'm saying is the fullness of
the evidence that is coming out of X

1081
01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:36.960
over the course of time that it's
happening, the fact that it will happen.

1082
01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:43.199
When we go in totally unscheduled,
every single team had some kind of

1083
01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:47.560
activity. We had multiple people have
sightings. Then we came in unannounced a

1084
01:11:47.560 --> 01:11:51.000
few weeks ago for a quick weekend
trip and had activity as soon as we

1085
01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:55.479
showed up. And then the team
was in over Labor Day weekend and had

1086
01:11:55.560 --> 01:12:00.000
more activity. So these guys never
leave, they don't appear to live anywhere

1087
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:01.560
because We've been all up and around
that area is in there. There's no

1088
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:05.600
structures close enough that they could be
sort of with impunity coming in and out.

1089
01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:10.359
The closest houses are quite a ways
away, So these folks obviously have

1090
01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:14.319
some kind of remote camp that we're
unaware of. They're able to move much

1091
01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:16.479
better than we can. Like I
said, they don't fear death because they're

1092
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:19.960
wearing monkey suits around guys who are
trying to shoot a big Harry biped it.

1093
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:24.159
Just when you start to think about
the idea that this could be a

1094
01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:28.560
human, you know, these are
humans hoaxing us. It almost becomes harder

1095
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:31.800
to believe than the idea that there
are big Harry monkeys out there instead.

1096
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:35.960
You know, it's similar to the
PGF, the conspiracy scenario that gets spun

1097
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:43.000
out to support a hoaxed PGF.
To me anyway, oftentimes sounds more incredible

1098
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.359
than what the PGF purports to be. And that's the same thing here.

1099
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:48.319
Is it possible that we would be
hoaxed at some point in our lives?

1100
01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:50.600
Yes, it's possible that would be
hosted at some point in our lives.

1101
01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:56.359
Do I believe anything that we're experiencing
an access is human hoaxing. Absolutely not.

1102
01:12:56.439 --> 01:13:01.439
It's just impossible to comprehend that it
could be. Not because we're quote

1103
01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:04.760
unquote ripe for it, not because
we're gullible, not because we want it

1104
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:09.720
so bad, but because if you
sit there and look at the claims of

1105
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:15.119
experiences that we've had, it would
be impossible, literally impossible, to imagine

1106
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:16.800
a human being doing that, or
any group of human beings doing that.

1107
01:13:17.399 --> 01:13:24.880
So if that's the case, either
everything we're saying is true or we're lying.

1108
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:27.479
Oh so it's gonna say, I
mean, you know, obviously the

1109
01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:30.960
counter argument to that is that your
claims are just claims, and the right

1110
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:34.479
those are lies. We're making it
out right, Which okay, that's that's

1111
01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:38.920
the lazy man's skepticismy, except for
the fact that you know, we found

1112
01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:42.039
the hair. Maybe that hair alternated
something, maybe it won't. It's just

1113
01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.159
a single little hairy We were out
there for ninety days and the best piece

1114
01:13:45.159 --> 01:13:49.439
of physical evidence we know we have
is a single hair. If psychs this

1115
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:54.399
does the DNA analysis and it's something
really interesting, then that would be fantastic.

1116
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.840
But I'm withholding my anticipation until we
hear what he has to say.

1117
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:01.119
There's nothing I can say to someone
who says, well, you're lying.

1118
01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:06.840
Okay, we're lying. You're right, But we had thirty people down there

1119
01:14:08.479 --> 01:14:12.399
for three months, and you know
you can validate that. Call employers,

1120
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:15.720
call spouses. I was gone from
my home for more than seven days.

1121
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:19.079
Do you think we're just going down
there and like imagining up these great stories

1122
01:14:19.399 --> 01:14:23.720
and then coming out and telling them. It's entirely possible. I fully admit

1123
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:27.840
that it is completely possible that we
are a bunch of liars and that everything

1124
01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:32.800
we've said is a lie. But
that's really the only other option to believing

1125
01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:35.960
us, So take that for what
it's worth. I can't even have a

1126
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.560
straight faced conversation about the hoaxing situation, because, again, if you think

1127
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:45.560
about it for more than five seconds, it just becomes impossible to comprehend that

1128
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:48.479
any group of people would be So
who are these mystery people who are willing

1129
01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:53.880
to spend three months out there not
doing the crazy shit we're doing that we

1130
01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:57.399
can find thirty people to spend time
in the woods to look for these things.

1131
01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:00.640
These guys are doubling down on that. They're spending thirty days out in

1132
01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:05.319
the woods pretending to be bigfoot in
ways that I can't even imagine how they

1133
01:15:05.319 --> 01:15:08.840
can do it, how they can
look to be eight feet tall, how

1134
01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:13.920
they can move with that speed through
that underbrush, up those hills and apparently

1135
01:15:13.960 --> 01:15:16.560
can get shot at and not worry
about dying. Clearly, you're being hoaxed

1136
01:15:16.600 --> 01:15:20.520
by superheroes. I mean that's the
only logical right collation. I actually said

1137
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:25.800
that on j REF that any non
Kryptonian human would would not do this.

1138
01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:29.479
I mean, Superman's out there in
his guerrilla suit and he's just having a

1139
01:15:29.479 --> 01:15:32.000
good old time job. You got
him, and maybe you got Captain America,

1140
01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:34.520
but you know that's Marvel versus DC. I don't know they would mix,

1141
01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:36.920
but you know, yes, people
like that, people like that who

1142
01:15:36.920 --> 01:15:41.479
bullets will not harm, clearly are
the ones who are are hoaxing us.

1143
01:15:41.720 --> 01:15:44.640
That's about all I got. I
feel like all I did was bitch for

1144
01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:46.960
an hour and a half, and
I guess glad I could be. I'm

1145
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:50.279
glad we could pull this together.
I'm just scanning through the questions that people

1146
01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:55.239
through out there. Matthew had a
good question. He said, if Gigantapithecus

1147
01:15:55.359 --> 01:16:00.119
or parenthropis, if a fossil foot
was found and it matched a track of

1148
01:16:00.199 --> 01:16:02.319
a supposed sasquatch. Do you think
it would add to the credibility of some

1149
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:06.279
tracks. That's a good question.
One thing you have to keep in mind,

1150
01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:10.119
though, is you know, when
you're talking about a track or an

1151
01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:15.479
impression, that track, it's not
a mold of a foot. The best

1152
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:20.760
way that I've heard it described is
it's a record of an impact and what

1153
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:25.319
that impact did to the ground.
Obviously, you can do a pretty good

1154
01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:28.760
job of matching it up, and
the more rigid the foot is, the

1155
01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.159
more closely that they'll match up.
But I know, just from my own

1156
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:36.600
personal testing and experimenting with my own
foot, if I have a soft substrate

1157
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:43.680
and I step into it that impression, there's a measurable difference in the size

1158
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:46.720
and shape of that impression than my
foot. It's not huge, but it's

1159
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:53.520
quantifiable. When you're talking about something
that's even bigger and more dynamic and probably

1160
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:59.359
not taking a ginger step into some
nice soft clay soil, it might become

1161
01:16:59.399 --> 01:17:03.880
harder. Do think though, that
if you could construct that jack cannonpiscus foot

1162
01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:10.000
or that parent thrope's foot and come
close to matching an allegend sasquatch track.

1163
01:17:10.079 --> 01:17:15.079
It would be interesting, but obviously
the immediate counter argument to that would be,

1164
01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:19.880
well, someone went out there and
found a parentropis model and used that

1165
01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:25.399
model to create their own fakefoot.
I think that you know, a reasonably

1166
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:29.560
open minded person would that would that
would be an interesting find. I think

1167
01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:30.920
that it would be, you know, helpful, But I don't think it

1168
01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:34.800
necessarily solves anything. I mean,
I think this for certain people, it

1169
01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:38.640
would add a lot of credibility to
some tracks. For other people, it

1170
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:43.640
would mean nothing. Unfortunately, I
think that there's so much animosity around this

1171
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.119
subject that I don't know that even
that kind of a find would help all

1172
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:50.319
that much. Now, if you
found it north America, hell yeah,

1173
01:17:50.680 --> 01:17:55.119
you know. I think if you
if you found that, or a tooth

1174
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:58.600
or you know, any kind of
bone, would be fantastic, even if

1175
01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:01.439
it wasn't a fossil. Obviously,
if you found bones of that nature or

1176
01:18:01.479 --> 01:18:05.199
fossils of that nature in North America, that would be a very significant find.

1177
01:18:05.319 --> 01:18:09.760
I think. I think that would
definitely ramp up the conversation. We're

1178
01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:12.680
going to do like a speed round
here. Nathan said, we should talk

1179
01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:15.239
about bigfoot playing chicken at night on
the road, which is incredible because if

1180
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:18.000
people don't understand what he's talking about. The poor bastard who put on a

1181
01:18:18.039 --> 01:18:21.039
gilly suit and thought he was going
to run across the road and scare people

1182
01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:23.880
and make them think they saw a
bigfoot, and he got hit by two

1183
01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:27.000
cars and he got killed. And
it's very, very sad. This is

1184
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:30.840
an example of how serious it is
to pretend to be a bigfoot. It's

1185
01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:33.439
just very sad. I got nothing
else to say about it except that very

1186
01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:38.079
sad. That's tragic. Mark asks
if I were a wood ape and knew

1187
01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:41.239
my way around an area and didn't
want to attract attention, how would I

1188
01:18:41.319 --> 01:18:45.000
need or leave trail markers like rock
stacks or stick structures? Why would I

1189
01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:47.920
need I guess he's saying, why
would I need to leave? I don't

1190
01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:50.159
know I need to do that.
Yeah, I don't know that they do

1191
01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:54.920
do that. That's an interesting topic. You know, I've seen some evidence

1192
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:59.000
that I think can point in that
direction. You know, of sasquatch using

1193
01:18:59.039 --> 01:19:01.640
those types of things to navigate,
and it is a known primate behavior,

1194
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:05.880
it is, But you know,
I don't think that there's a great enough

1195
01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:11.479
body of evidence to say that they
actually do that. Why should we wonder

1196
01:19:11.680 --> 01:19:15.039
why? Personally? If I was
in that area and I was wanting to

1197
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:20.560
avoid detection, that would be the
ideal method for me. It's nonverbal.

1198
01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:25.920
The only people who are going to
understand it are the people who have told

1199
01:19:25.960 --> 01:19:30.760
what it means. It's a perfect
silent, coded way of delivering information.

1200
01:19:30.079 --> 01:19:34.880
Now we went this way, the
smelly naked humans, they went that way,

1201
01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:38.960
So as far as communication, I
think it'd be an excellent route.

1202
01:19:39.479 --> 01:19:41.960
Whether or not they do it,
who knows. And I think, like

1203
01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:45.880
a lot of other things in this
field, I think there's been a sort

1204
01:19:45.880 --> 01:19:48.479
of an over attribution of things that
have been found in the wilderness to suggest

1205
01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:51.880
that they are doing it. Too
many people look at perfectly normal tree formations

1206
01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:56.319
and say that they're not. Too
many people find stacks of rocks that could

1207
01:19:56.319 --> 01:19:59.840
just as easily been stacked by people
and say that they're from what A.

1208
01:20:00.159 --> 01:20:02.079
It's one of those things where it's
entirely possible, as you point out,

1209
01:20:02.119 --> 01:20:05.920
it has been documented in other primates, but it's just impossible to know.

1210
01:20:05.960 --> 01:20:11.680
I think at this point Cliff had
a good question. Somebody did drag a

1211
01:20:11.680 --> 01:20:14.000
body out of the woods. Where
do you think the best place for the

1212
01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:16.319
body to go is? And then
how would you go about presenting the results

1213
01:20:16.319 --> 01:20:19.800
to the world without everyone thinking it's
another Georgia type hox. We'll get The

1214
01:20:19.800 --> 01:20:24.000
second part of that question is really
simple. Just come out with it.

1215
01:20:24.199 --> 01:20:26.680
I mean, just if you've got
the monkey baa, put it out there.

1216
01:20:27.119 --> 01:20:29.600
Don't say, you know, okay, on Monday, we're going to

1217
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.800
make a big reveal, or we've
got this earth shattering evidence that we will

1218
01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:38.279
slowly released to you over a period
of time. Put that some bitch on

1219
01:20:38.319 --> 01:20:41.279
the table. When you release information, you release it. Yeah, exactly

1220
01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:44.520
right. You don't tease it.
That's not a release. The only reason

1221
01:20:44.600 --> 01:20:47.119
you hype something is if it needs
hyping. And that's something that I think

1222
01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:50.279
a lot of people need to keep
in mind. If you're hyping something,

1223
01:20:50.359 --> 01:20:56.359
if you're slowly releasing information, or
you're teasing the release of information, there

1224
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:59.920
is a motive behind that action,
and you really need to be taking a

1225
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:05.399
long serious look at what that motivation
is without disclosing what the tbrc's plans may

1226
01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:08.720
be. Because we've done a lot
of thinking this is what I think,

1227
01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:11.319
and so some of this may be
what the TBRC is going to do.

1228
01:21:11.399 --> 01:21:14.439
Some of this may be just what
I personally think. I think what you

1229
01:21:14.520 --> 01:21:20.159
do is you find yourself an organization, a reputable organization, a museum or

1230
01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:27.039
a university, not a governmental agency
probably, but you find yourself a reputable

1231
01:21:27.119 --> 01:21:31.800
organization that you will partner with to
document the animal. And what that means

1232
01:21:31.840 --> 01:21:35.640
I can't tell you exactly, but
document it in a way that would be

1233
01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:41.119
acceptable. And of course you've also
brought in this third party, someone you

1234
01:21:41.159 --> 01:21:44.760
know. Again it's used your imagination, but there's some very fine museums in

1235
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:47.680
the United States of America, some
great colleges and universities, someone along the

1236
01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:51.479
lines of that you would want to
bring in before you announced to anybody,

1237
01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:55.439
before you told anybody what you had, you'd bring them in and they would

1238
01:21:55.439 --> 01:21:58.640
help you document the animal. I
think you would also, if it were

1239
01:21:58.720 --> 01:22:03.520
me doing it, would probably find
a media contact to work with before it

1240
01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:09.640
was announced, to again document the
story of the discovery and document the documentation

1241
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:13.520
of the discovery, so that on
the day that you announced and released,

1242
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:15.760
there was a fully formed package of
information that would go out with it.

1243
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:20.159
So many as many questions as possible
could be answered prior to them being asked.

1244
01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:25.279
If I were king of the world
and I had this situation in front

1245
01:22:25.319 --> 01:22:28.000
of me, I would probably work
it like that. Who would I work

1246
01:22:28.039 --> 01:22:30.800
with. I'm not going to say
whether, you know, from the standpoint

1247
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:34.319
of the organization or the media contact, but I would probably try to work

1248
01:22:34.359 --> 01:22:39.600
something like that up where you are. It's not just you and someone like

1249
01:22:39.640 --> 01:22:43.840
Thomas Cardy at a news conference.
It's you and a dude from a museum

1250
01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:46.399
and another dude from a university,
and they're going to answer questions too.

1251
01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:48.920
And then, oh, by the
way, a dude from the New York

1252
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:53.520
Times just wrote a ten thousand word
story about it that you're gonna read on

1253
01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:57.800
their website. You know, whenever
you go into a situation that calls for

1254
01:22:57.920 --> 01:23:00.119
an expert, you get an expert. You know, when you're accused of

1255
01:23:00.119 --> 01:23:02.720
a crime, you get a lawyer. You know, when you have a

1256
01:23:02.760 --> 01:23:06.199
scientific discovery, you get a scientist, and when that discovery needs to be

1257
01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:10.319
published, you get a publicist,
and so on and so forth. You

1258
01:23:10.319 --> 01:23:14.640
don't want the Find of the Century
looking like open Mic Night at the Total

1259
01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:20.960
Karaoke. Yeah, I wouldn't tell
a soul personally until, like you said,

1260
01:23:21.079 --> 01:23:25.800
I had a package to deliver to
the world. I don't want to

1261
01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:29.279
be that guy sitting there looking like
a deer in the headlights behind a microphone

1262
01:23:29.279 --> 01:23:30.760
with a bunch of cameras pointed at
me. I want to be prepared.

1263
01:23:31.199 --> 01:23:36.159
And it's entirely possible that the exact
individuals involved in collecting this thing would not

1264
01:23:36.319 --> 01:23:41.760
be present at that conversation, and
they may never be publicized ever, because

1265
01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:45.359
it doesn't really matter. What matters
is the discovery and the documentation of the

1266
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:48.159
discovery and what it means. So
you would focus on that. Yeah,

1267
01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:51.760
But also I love that little piece
of like simple Southern logic you have right

1268
01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:55.159
there that if you need an expert, you go get an expert. I

1269
01:23:55.159 --> 01:23:59.159
think that's perfect. If you've got
the real deal, it's the real deal.

1270
01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:01.720
And that's that's another thing that people
should keep in mind when they're weighing

1271
01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:05.560
these claims. If you've got something
solid, and you've got something real and

1272
01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:11.159
something legitimate, it's going to stand
on its own right. Well, even

1273
01:24:11.359 --> 01:24:14.279
some of the most ardent skeptics,
they will be the first to tell you,

1274
01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:17.399
you know, if you come in
with some good, solid legitimate DNA

1275
01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:24.159
or you come in with an arm
or even some teeth, They're going to

1276
01:24:24.279 --> 01:24:28.479
be strong enough evidence to stand by
themselves. They're not going to need to

1277
01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:31.960
be sold or hyped or built up
or promoted. They're going to do all

1278
01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:35.359
that by themselves, just by the
very nature of their existence and what they

1279
01:24:35.439 --> 01:24:40.479
represent. All you have to do
is tell people about it, and everything

1280
01:24:40.479 --> 01:24:43.359
else will take care of itself.
And it may not be pretty, you

1281
01:24:43.399 --> 01:24:45.119
know. That's the other thing I
mean, I understand that as soon as

1282
01:24:45.159 --> 01:24:49.079
you open the gate of the corral, the cattle are going to do their

1283
01:24:49.079 --> 01:24:53.720
own thing, right, So the
best you can do is make sure that

1284
01:24:53.720 --> 01:24:59.800
that initial introduction is as legitimate and
tidy as possible. But even if it's

1285
01:24:59.880 --> 01:25:02.039
not, over the course of time, it will take care of itself if

1286
01:25:02.079 --> 01:25:06.359
what you have is the real deal
is legitimate, right or Hey, who's

1287
01:25:06.359 --> 01:25:10.000
asked questions before? Now? Has
the TVRC ever thought about performing an operation

1288
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:14.000
such as persistence in other areas such
as the Pacific Northwest? Let me just

1289
01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:17.039
say that we currently don't have the
manpower to operate in more than one place.

1290
01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:23.119
We have more than we can deal
with in X, So even if

1291
01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:27.159
we did know of a secondary location
or tertiary location, we wouldn't able to

1292
01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:30.640
do a thing about it right now
anyway, because we're completely consumed by what

1293
01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:35.079
we're doing in X right one of
the logistics of just being one state removed.

1294
01:25:35.319 --> 01:25:40.079
Oh, it's got to be difficult
enough. It would so Pacific Northwest.

1295
01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:42.920
No, we'd never do anyth Pacific
Northwest because we wouldn't be able to

1296
01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:46.079
do it because it's hard. I
mean, I drive from Minnesota to get

1297
01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:49.800
down to Oklahoma. That's an entire
day's drive. That's like thirteen hour drive

1298
01:25:49.880 --> 01:25:51.920
or whatever it is for me.
I mean that's a really big deal.

1299
01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:56.680
Even people in Texas are driving almost
as far as I am from a time

1300
01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:00.520
perspective, when you factor in traffic
and everything, and given Howe says,

1301
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:01.920
you can drive for a day and
a half and still be in Texas.

1302
01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:06.319
So it would be impossible for us
to operate outside of the region that the

1303
01:26:06.359 --> 01:26:11.159
TBRC operates in, just from a
logistical standpoint. Even if we did have

1304
01:26:11.199 --> 01:26:15.520
another location within our area, we
do not have the manpower to take care

1305
01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:18.000
of it right now. The Cliff
had a great question for Paul. Unfortunately,

1306
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:21.840
I think Paul's probably the only one
that's clotified to answer it. We

1307
01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:27.239
can pretend like we know the answer
to this, but even a layman can

1308
01:26:27.279 --> 01:26:31.560
pretty easily tell if an image has
been manipulated because of the ex Was it

1309
01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:35.640
the EXIF data? Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Make sure I

1310
01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:40.479
got my acronym right. Yes.
EXIF data is actually pretty tricky because what

1311
01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:43.800
a lot of people don't know is
their camera phones. If you're using a

1312
01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:47.079
smartphone like an iPhone or an Android
phone, it's entirely likely that the location

1313
01:26:47.199 --> 01:26:51.119
of that photo is being recorded on
the photo. As you move that photo

1314
01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:56.640
around, that data doesn't go anywhere
unless you actually manipulate the photo, which

1315
01:26:56.680 --> 01:27:00.600
is incredibly difficult. Right. It's
hard to manipulate a photo and keep that

1316
01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:04.600
data intact. As far as I
understand it, it will often travel with

1317
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:10.560
the file until such time as that
photo is in some way manipulated, and

1318
01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:15.119
then that that data is usually schluffed
off in the process of that manipulation.

1319
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:17.520
It's tricky stuff, that EXIF data, and it records all kinds of crap,

1320
01:27:17.840 --> 01:27:25.199
all kinds of stuff about a photo
besides location. I've actually used the

1321
01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:28.840
EXIF data before when I've had an
image, and I was unsure of when

1322
01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:31.520
I had taken it. I was
actually going back and figuring out when,

1323
01:27:32.319 --> 01:27:35.920
when where that image was was originally
produced. I have an app on my

1324
01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:40.359
computer that it's like a diary app, and when you add a photo to

1325
01:27:40.399 --> 01:27:43.840
it, it will automatically put the
photo in the right day and time based

1326
01:27:43.880 --> 01:27:46.319
on the EXIF data. Wow.
Yeah, it's kind of cool. All

1327
01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:49.279
right, thanks man, thanks for
being there. Yeah, it was a

1328
01:27:49.319 --> 01:27:54.439
good times. Cool. Well,
we'll see you next time. They say

1329
01:27:54.680 --> 01:28:03.359
you don't have a go, but
you can't stay and I don't want to

1330
01:28:03.479 --> 01:28:33.159
feel world happen. SI. I
trying to try that chart everything. Call

1331
01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:40.640
me ride back, right back,
joy from me, joy staying right there,

1332
01:28:42.680 --> 01:29:56.319
come it right away still stas stasssssstaate
stssnassstssssssst usedsts