1 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:22,399 What is krack alakin Fellow thermonuclear A efforts. I am Dan Favali coming at 2 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:28,120 you with my certified fantabulous co host mister Grant Hughes. Lots to get to. 3 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:31,519 But first and foremost, I would like to remind you all to please 4 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,920 subscribe to us and support us wherever you're consuming us YouTube, hit sub and 5 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,520 like, especially if you're watching now, help the algorithm, love us back 6 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,079 comments, help as well, Apple five star ratings and reviews. Help us 7 00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:44,840 out a ton, and subscribe on Spotify as well. If you've done all 8 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,399 those things, hey tell your friends, acquaintances, co workers, any randos 9 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:51,799 on social media about us, Shout us out on Twitter. You could retweet 10 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,759 our promos. That comes as a big help to anything. Join our discords 11 00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:58,399 link to that's in the podcast and YouTube description. And finally, it is 12 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,399 live. I'll eventually promote it on social media, but the link is in 13 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:03,840 the YouTube description. It will be in the podcast description. We have merch. 14 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:07,599 I'm wearing one of said merch. We've updated the designs a little bit 15 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:12,000 so you'll see hardwood knocks on these, but I'm wearing a Thermonuclear AFT shirt. 16 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 For anyone who can't see, and anyone who can see the MIC's in 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,439 the way, So I make no apologies. I would aggressively if you're getting 18 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:23,840 clothes, recommend upsizing aggressively upsizing Grant, and I can confirm after having some 19 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:26,120 test merch. So that's exciting. We've got stickers, the whole nine. 20 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:30,640 Maybe we'll eventually run some giveaways depending on how popular these things become. But 21 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:34,959 stickers pains, mugs grants as they hold up in the dishwasher. So the 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,319 reviews are in. Get yourself some hardwood, knocks, swag, and now 23 00:01:38,359 --> 00:01:42,319 we get to the actual thing that people care about. Grant. How are 24 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,200 you doing. I'm feeling I'm feeling good, And I just want you to 25 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,799 know this is my favorite thing from the last few days from the NBA that 26 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,599 if you ever need to demote me from the starting lineup, unlike D'Angelo Russell, 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,799 you will not quote unquote lose me. Did you see that? That's 28 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,200 my favorite thing because it just says everything you need to know about Russell, 29 00:02:01,319 --> 00:02:05,719 doesn't it? Like wasn't that? That's that's the information you need if you're 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,680 thinking about signing him this summer. Well, and the other thing is like, 31 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,360 did you see that they actually did lose him. I don't know if 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,879 he did. You see the picture of him when there was that skirmish between 33 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:21,719 I think it was Aaron Gordon and Lebron James. In the first half it 34 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,400 was venn Well and Jeff Van Gundy. Because this is he is triggered by 35 00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:29,400 this every time said something to the effect of like he wants no part of 36 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,439 the skirmish or whatever it was, which which he always means as like a 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,960 knock, oh, let's go perfect timing. He's just like he's like, 38 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:44,599 fuck this here shooting practice threes. That was great. Uh yeah. If 39 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,879 if there's a if there's a danger of losing someone based on their role in 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,840 like a do or die playoff game, that person that guy's already lost. 41 00:02:53,439 --> 00:02:59,360 It's that's it's beyond beyond saving at that point. We're gonna get to the 42 00:02:59,439 --> 00:03:01,560 Lakers, but I think we need to. I build this as the thumbnail. 43 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,199 I don't know if you looked at the thumbnail, it's time and I 44 00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:07,639 don't I mean, this doesn't really feel like a spicy question for us who 45 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:12,599 both of us had Nicola Yokich as our MVP, and I think we would 46 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:15,039 have had him as it can. You know, we don't go into rankings 47 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,240 really on the show, but we would have had him as a top five 48 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,439 player pretty easily. But there's always these conversations. We saw it with the 49 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,400 honest We've seen it with Kawaide Durant Lebron where they have these strong playoff campaigns 50 00:03:25,479 --> 00:03:29,080 or their teams make the finals, where their team wins the championship. So 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,960 this can be with the caveat that the Nuggets need to win the title. 52 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,319 It could be with what we've seen so far. Is NICOLEA. Yokich the 53 00:03:36,479 --> 00:03:40,680 best player in the NBA? Yeah? I mean when you texted we were 54 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:45,639 talking about this yesterday, you texted and said, should we should we have 55 00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:49,360 a discussion or what should we ask whether Yokich is the best player in the 56 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:53,199 NBA? And I my thought was going to be, this will be a 57 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:58,159 short discussion because like I guess maybe so. Yeah, I think so right, 58 00:03:58,199 --> 00:04:03,280 because I guess maybe as much as anybody you would say that he needed 59 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:08,879 like playoff validation, right because those were sort of the only questions, and 60 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,039 you know, his MVP detractors or people that just were not on board with 61 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,120 trusting the catch all metrics that very clearly have said for a long time he's 62 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,240 the best player in the league. He needed to prove that defensively he could 63 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,680 hold up and honestly, like had to prove that to me. I think 64 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,839 I needed to see an extended playoff run where the Nuggets defended well enough with 65 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,759 him on the floor to sort of validate all of the sort of indisputable regular 66 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,120 season stuff. But yeah, I think so, you know, I don't 67 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,959 know even if the Nuggets need to win a title for me to feel comfortable 68 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,079 saying that, just because construct the argument against it, against that supposition. 69 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,920 Now it's just like, what even is it, because you can't really he's 70 00:04:50,959 --> 00:04:57,680 been the best player in the postseason. They've now advanced to the finals convincingly, 71 00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:01,079 you know, Kevin Durant gone, Lebron gone, Anthony Davis gone. 72 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:04,399 It's not like, you know, they've beaten good, great players. So 73 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:09,560 it's kind of like, you know, as Stephan Stotage says, Yogis was 74 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,560 the best player for the past four years in the comments, like I think 75 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,040 that I think I talked about this last time. Now we need to start 76 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:21,759 like sort of recalibrating what we've thought over the last several years and just acknowledge 77 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:25,639 that maybe he's not only the best right now, he's been the best for 78 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,319 a while. Because I don't know about you, but I don't really have 79 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,879 a good counter to that idea. No, and it's you even mentioned that 80 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,120 we even might be giving too much credence to the he needed this playoff resume 81 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:40,920 boost. I guess anecdotally to say, Okay, he's going to the NBA 82 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,759 Finals. But his playoff numbers were never bad. I mean, yeah, 83 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:46,800 the plus minus was off, but look at what he was working with the 84 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,439 past two years. And so now you put this incredibly talented supporting cast around 85 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,759 him, and oh, the Nuggets are headed to the finals. And there's 86 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,240 just I don't want to hear any of the caveats either. The margins were 87 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:02,519 so thin for every like that you could say the league wasn't as talented at 88 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,240 the top this year. Well guess what we were wrong about the Bucks. 89 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,680 We said that they might have been or I said they were the closest thing 90 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,519 to a jug or not the league had I was wrong, and then the 91 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Nuggets were right there. The Nuggets were the closest thing to just a formality. 92 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,240 We had all season or inevitability, and they and I guess I have 93 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,000 to tip my cap to Nuggets fans here. They got mad during one of 94 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,120 our I think broadcasts actually when I said, I'm actually concerned about how this 95 00:06:30,199 --> 00:06:32,519 last month of the season or so was going because it just looked like something 96 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,240 was off, and it's no, you know, really they were just you 97 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,279 know, I don't want to say they were screwing around, but it was 98 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:41,800 just the stakes weren't high enough for them because they are that good or they 99 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,920 were whatever it was. Maybe it wasn't advert maybe it wasn't inverting that it 100 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:47,439 happened, but they were able to overcome it. And I think for Yoki 101 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:53,680 specifically, I'm with you where it's hey, it's time to relitigate how we 102 00:06:53,759 --> 00:06:57,199 viewed him all these past three years because the biggest and you touched upon this, 103 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,240 but whether it was fair or not, and I think it's proved that 104 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,879 it's unfair. The biggest knock against him was and it was among smart people 105 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,399 too. This isn't us talking against the wall where it's hey, we're dunking 106 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:11,839 on these clearly disingenuous takes. Yes, some of them, you know. 107 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:15,920 Drew Hamlin sixers propaganda, like some of them skewed towards disingenuous. They were 108 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,160 very smart people, people I respect that thought it was a fair question. 109 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:23,439 You had questions about his defense in the playoffs, so did I. I 110 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,439 thought that a lot of Nuggets fans tended to romanticize his defense, and that 111 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,199 came to bear a lot this season. There were questions among I'm not saying 112 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:33,839 that I'm among the smart people, but I think people that wanted to have 113 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:40,680 had a legitimate conversation about this, and it's just he's in the finals now, 114 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,959 and it was like that was the biggest question, and maybe it was. 115 00:07:44,279 --> 00:07:46,759 Maybe it was probably a fair question for the most part, but like 116 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,279 it was being asked years. For years, this question has been being asked, 117 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:55,000 And I would say I think the issue with the question was a lot 118 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,480 of people were answering it in the disaffirmative where it was no, you can't 119 00:07:59,519 --> 00:08:03,560 win a tide. It wasn't a curiosity. It was just this foregone conclusion 120 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,600 that you can't win a title with him as your best player. And and 121 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,399 we have this in the chat from Ryan Eggers, which dovetails with it. 122 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,439 If Yokich win the title, wins the titles. This the quickest MVP voters 123 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,480 ever regret their decision, And I will say I don't think it is because 124 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:24,360 I think it would dilute Yokich's own MVPs if we say, well, look 125 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,360 at how far Yokich made it relative to Embied when the knock was, oh, 126 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:31,639 Yokis got bounced and he shouldn't have won MVP. But like that was 127 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,519 also part of the Yokis discourse too, where it was he can't go far 128 00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:37,200 in the playoffs, and it's just funny in the year that he doesn't win 129 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,960 MVP, And it's funny that it was after what I think it was after 130 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,639 game four, he says the Conference finals. I he means absolutely nothing, 131 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,720 dam which is iconic answer. It's you said it right. I'm gonna basically 132 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,960 just stepping on toes of everything you said. It's not just about is he 133 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,120 the best player in the NBA. If you want to have a discussion and 134 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:58,759 I want to get into certain players that I'm gonna not take over him anymore 135 00:08:58,919 --> 00:09:05,159 consider but the discussion is fine. But like this is almost about actually being 136 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,559 revisionist or going back in hindsight and saying, you know what, like the 137 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,000 discussion really missed on him because this isn't a conversation that gain. It gained 138 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,240 validity now, but it never necessarily should have needed to. Like he's always 139 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,960 been right, even if you would take other players, like this has just 140 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,759 been a consensus top five, top three player for how long? Now? 141 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,120 Yeah, I think I think you do have to acknowledge that he has gotten 142 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,759 better. You know, he has improved in several ways, not the least 143 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:35,960 of which is defensively, but like he's just gotten all around better as a 144 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,120 scorer, as a as a two point you know, field will percentage guys, 145 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:43,759 you know, the three has kind of come and gone, as has 146 00:09:43,799 --> 00:09:46,559 the volume, but he's he has just improved. So I guess, like 147 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,600 if I'm just playing Devil's advocate a little bit, because I do think we 148 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,480 need to look at the last several years and just kind of maybe revise what 149 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,679 we thought. But I also think you have to hold in your mind the 150 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,440 idea that he has improved. So it's not like, well, three years 151 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,320 ago, he was clearly the best player in the world, Like there's an 152 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:07,720 argument, but he's a better version of himself now, So it's just it's 153 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:11,840 easier to say he's the best now, but I do. I think the 154 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:18,159 sort of kind of related idea we have to start thinking about is almost everything 155 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,600 we said about Yokich, or not we necessarily but that has been said about 156 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:28,120 Yokich to devalue him or or kind of keep him from this top spot probably 157 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:33,320 does need to apply to Joel Embid now, right because he's now he's got 158 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,960 the MVP. Not to say he didn't deserve it. I'm fine with him 159 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,279 winning MVP this year. I think, you know, I thought it was 160 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,399 Yokich. It's close enough that I can't really complain, But now he's the 161 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:48,600 one that hasn't even made a conference finals and has had like significant playoff drop 162 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:50,840 off relative to regular season production. Some of that's injury, but at this 163 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:54,360 point, if it happens every year, it's just part of it. And 164 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,200 Yokich, I think, in contrast, does not see statistical drop off in 165 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,600 the postseason gen early speaking. So I think if you if you had those 166 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,279 opinions about Yokis, you really do need to transfer those to Himbid now fair 167 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:11,960 or not, but just for consistency's sake, I think we need to just 168 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:16,200 kind of basically, you know, keep as the kids would say, keep 169 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,279 the same energy, Like that's that's what needs to happen now, right, 170 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,679 because you can't say any of the stuff that used to be said about Yoki. 171 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:24,960 So he's just if he's not the best player in the world, he's 172 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,799 at least put to bed most of the knocks against him, if not all 173 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,879 of them so far. Do you think he needs I think the discourse and 174 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:37,960 again, I really do feel like for the most part, the basketball intelligensa 175 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,600 has warmed up to Yokis long before now, but there's still that just like 176 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:48,879 undercurrent of skepticism or attempts to invalidate what he's done or downplay it. Do 177 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,720 you think he I feel like we're already due for just like a generational one 178 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:56,559 eighty on the discourse, Like andreing the NBA Finals, I think we're going 179 00:11:56,639 --> 00:11:58,279 to see like a generational one eighty on a lot of stances. Do you 180 00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:01,960 think he actually need to even win the title for that to happen? And 181 00:12:03,039 --> 00:12:05,799 like, are we gonna say if the Nuggets lost to the Celtics or Heat 182 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:11,000 in six seven games, whatever? Do you think that he's he I think 183 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,320 we both agree he has. But do you think there would still be those 184 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:16,840 questions, like they would both Look, he couldn't win the vinals, Like 185 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,879 he got there and he couldn't win. I think I think not probably not 186 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,000 for me personally, but I think if you're asking, like will that be 187 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,519 part of the discussion, like will a talking head bring that up? Yes, 188 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,360 because that's like a it's a controversial take and it's believable enough for a 189 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:39,279 certain segment of NBA fans. But like if he does win it, I 190 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:48,159 think then you got there's no there's no rational way to think about him other 191 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,120 than as probably right there with Janis, as like the best player of the 192 00:12:54,279 --> 00:12:58,039 I don't know, the twenty fifteen and on or something something like that, 193 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:00,720 right, maybe a little bit later than that, or only like the best 194 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:05,759 player of this decade so far, And I don't know who even really else 195 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,720 would be in that conversation, like the Curry prime is starts quite a lot 196 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:15,720 earlier, and is you know, tailing off a little bit maybe, but 197 00:13:15,759 --> 00:13:18,080 yeah, it's him and Jannis, right, Like those are the two guys 198 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,960 you would bring up as say the last five years, maybe a little bit 199 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,120 less than that, but if he gets this one, you'll be able to 200 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:28,360 say he's got the two MVPs. The only reason he didn't make a deep 201 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:33,960 playoff run before was because like his second and third best teammates were hurt last 202 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,440 year and not ready prior to that. So I just don't you run out 203 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,440 of stuff to say or other guys to nominate other than Janice, as you 204 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,159 know, even being in the same conversation, I think, and that's I 205 00:13:45,159 --> 00:13:46,799 think was interesting now to me, And I don't know if we gave it 206 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,159 enough consideration, or maybe it was still clinging to the idea of well Kauai 207 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,039 and Kevin Duran, like, look at what they would be able to do 208 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,240 in the playoffs. It really is, I guess, Luca, but it 209 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:01,960 really just is Jannie or Yokich at this point. Right, if you're talking 210 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,000 about who's the best player in the world, I know that Jannis has been 211 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,039 consensus for a while, and if you default to him, I think that's 212 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:13,000 fine too, But when you're talking about people who are realistically challenging for that 213 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,600 spot, is like, what name do you come up with aside from Jannis 214 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,840 and Yokich at this point? Yeah, I think I just wanted to touch 215 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:22,759 on you know, you mentioned some of the skepticism around Yokis, which really 216 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:30,679 like feels irrational, just because if you're a numbers person, the numbers are 217 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,960 just like there's no argument. And now if you're well is, was he 218 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,759 the best player on the best team, I mean so far pretty much? 219 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,120 Yeah, of this year, certainly in the postseason. And I think a 220 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,559 lot of it stems from sometimes the best things he does look a little like 221 00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:50,240 bullshit. And there was a perfect example in Game four last night, as 222 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,120 we're recording this on Tuesday, he hit another just absurd. Maybe there were 223 00:14:54,159 --> 00:15:01,919 two ridiculous shot clock winding down Sambor shuffle like wrong foot did step back three 224 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,519 over Anthony Davis. That seems like, well that was lucky, right, 225 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,159 Like that's a garbage shot, Like that's just a prayer. Except like he's 226 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,960 made several of those in the playoffs. And it's just the things that he 227 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,120 does look awkward and difficult, and it's just he does them successfully often enough 228 00:15:16,159 --> 00:15:20,080 to now where you say, no, no, no, that's just extreme 229 00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:24,679 skill. It just doesn't look the same as Jannis taking three steps from half 230 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:28,440 court and dunking over four guys, like that's we understand that, Like that's 231 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,080 something that if you're an NBA fan for a long time, you recognize as 232 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,879 dominance or like overwhelming skill. Yokich is just different, and it it bumps 233 00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:43,080 you a little bit because it looks unorthodox or weird or unathletic even sometimes. 234 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,919 And I think a lot of the skepticism is just the aesthetics are weird, 235 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,399 like they don't look the same as what dominance is in our you know, 236 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,080 in our minds, which is I guess that I get it. But it's 237 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,559 also weird because when you're watching it happen, it is so dominant, right, 238 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,519 happens so often or just even something simple where it's like you can't he's 239 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,159 the ultimate, just putting you in this dilemma if you decide to actually double 240 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,320 him because of what he does as a passer and uses those angles and how 241 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:15,799 like the reads he's making in the face he's making, the angles he's working. 242 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:22,279 And you watch this and I agree that it's you know, eccentric or 243 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,879 a different abnormal relative to conventional forms of dominance, but it's still dominant when 244 00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:30,919 you're watching it. It was never just a numbers like, it was never 245 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,720 just then like if you were watching Nicole Yokich, i don't know how you 246 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:37,440 would come away with anything other than this is the one of the two or 247 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,919 three most dominant offensive players in the league, but for the past like three 248 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,120 four years or whatever. And I guess that's what's always kind of I thought 249 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,039 that there've been really intelligent, thorough discussions on the defense and like the discrepancy 250 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,279 between the metrics and what you're actually watching. But it's just the way that 251 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:56,480 people were just so quick to write off stuff that he And again I'm not 252 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,279 painting with a broad brush and saying everyone did this. They were twenty of 253 00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:03,080 people that voted. He won two MVPs. So I don't think this is 254 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,839 some underdog story in the main. I mean, he's an underdog in the 255 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,920 sense like look where he was drafted, But this isn't like Nicole Yokers came 256 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,519 out of nowhere, even though I do think it kind of feels like some 257 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,279 people, or I don't know if they're more casual fans or if it's like 258 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,319 supernational media are like shell shocked by what he's done during these playoffs a little 259 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:29,799 bit still, and that is surprising too. I'm surprised by their surprise, 260 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,480 is by anyone surprise at this point is basically what I'm getting at. Yeah, 261 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:34,279 no, I mean, I don't have a lot else to say on 262 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,880 him. I do think I've I think, so, just to kind of 263 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,440 broaden this a little bit, we've been quick to and the playoffs do this 264 00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:45,079 because we all agree that, well, the playoffs are where you really learn 265 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:51,079 about players and stuff. Like we crowned Devin Booker, We've crowned Jason Tatum 266 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:55,559 and seen them both fail in different ways, like some very conspicuously in Tatum's 267 00:17:55,599 --> 00:18:00,240 case, and like, you know, Butler I think probably has been properly 268 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,920 crowned as just way better than people give him credit for it. I don't 269 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,680 feel like there's a danger of you know, prisoner of the moment thinking or 270 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,440 jumping to a conclusion based on a one playoff series or anything with Yokich just 271 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,920 because of the longer track record. Like it's all I would think of it 272 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,480 this way. He's just confirming what we kind of suspected as opposed to, 273 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,799 oh, this is some leap, and it's I think it's sustainable. You 274 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:27,920 know, It's not that it's just oh no, he is this good, 275 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,480 and it's like a much more sort of reserved, settled kind of feeling as 276 00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:37,480 opposed to when you know, just name the young player du jour that we 277 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,480 think has finally leveled up. It's it's not it's not the same thing. 278 00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:45,759 It's a different feeling for him. And look, his Conference finals numbers were 279 00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:49,039 even, and I know Murray was on one as a score, which is 280 00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:53,000 and look, we'll eventually talk about the finals and the Nuggets when they actually 281 00:18:53,079 --> 00:18:57,319 have an opponent, which could happen after right, But Yokich just I mean 282 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,039 twenty seven point eight points, eleven point and assists, fourteen point five rebounds, 283 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:04,079 one point three steals, one point three blocks, forty seven point one 284 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:11,480 percent on threes. Just monster series and Jamal Murray. Some people thought he 285 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:15,599 should have gotten the Western Conference Finals MVP. I disagree, just because there 286 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,759 were still the I mean, we felt it even in kind of Game four, 287 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,359 his pieces and valleys required drama. Means sometimes I know he's baling in 288 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,240 the near infection for part of the series, but they're just such highs and 289 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:29,000 lows within some of his best games, and Yokich is the dominance is more 290 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:33,440 steadying, even when he might not be having his most efficient performances, which 291 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,480 you're still by most measures hyper efficient, and I'm excited for this team in 292 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,960 large part because I picked them to win the title, and I really would 293 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,160 love to do one of those victory laps. Think about how close because I 294 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,000 picked the Suns during their first year together with CP three and they made it 295 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:49,440 for the finals. If I went on a run where I had like I've 296 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,960 had the Sun's winning and a Nuggets winning, I would be ro already barely 297 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,319 borderline unlistenable when I'm on the podcast, So imagine how insufferable we'd beat. 298 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,079 Couldn't have done anything with you. I'm with you, though, I think 299 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,079 we're all in agreement that if you don't think NICOLEA. Yokich is the best 300 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:07,240 player in the league, I might be there. I've been a Yannis guy. 301 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,599 I think I'm there because I do believe there's more limitations that Jannis poses 302 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,599 when you're building out a team, and we were always able to say that 303 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:18,279 about Yokis, but because Jannis had won it higher levels and because he had 304 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:22,279 that defensive edge, And now I'm just like, you put the right personnel 305 00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:25,640 around Yokich, and I know it's taken a very specific set of personnel to 306 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,680 get here. Guess what like the Nuggets. I know that they could play 307 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,000 like seven or eight guys, like you have your six trustworthy guys, like 308 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,720 and then you get into the Jeff Greens and the Christian Brown's, like it's 309 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,920 the maybe maybe not tonight guys. You know, so it's I wouldn't say 310 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,720 it was easy, but like, look at the blends of skill sets that 311 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:47,240 they've been just thrown in there, and a lot of it's okay, Well, 312 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,839 Aaron Gordon, give you the necessary three point volume. We're like, 313 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,880 we're gonna have to use Bruce Brown differently than the Brooklyn Nets were able to 314 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,160 use Bruce Brown. We're gonna have to navigate a night where Michael Porter Junior 315 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,680 is not shooting as well, which, holy crap, Michael Porter Junior the 316 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,400 rebounding in defense just like making. I mean, I don't even know if 317 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,599 this is like his ninetieth percentile outcome either as just and so like there's a 318 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,079 chance that he still gets better. This team, We're gonna have a lot 319 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,920 more to say about them. I'm very see who they faced the finals, 320 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,279 and let's get to that very quickly. Since a lot a lot of this 321 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,279 could be outdated, I'll put it up immediately in audio form, we have 322 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:25,880 Celtics Heat Game four. I don't I just want to know your overarching thoughts 323 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,240 on this series so far. I we got accused of being way too high 324 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,839 on the Celtics in our primer. I you know, the haters were right. 325 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,799 Apparently, I don't really know what to say, like they're on the 326 00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:38,279 verge of a sweep. They're on the verge of a sweep. I think, 327 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,839 first of all, the Heat just kind of complicate everything because they're so 328 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:52,160 difficult to judge and evaluate without falling into cliches. I think for the Celtics, 329 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,720 like I guess, the thought that I've been having is more forward looking 330 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,400 because it's it's we're recording, it's three zero, it's done, and you 331 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,799 know, if it doesn't happen tonight, it all happen soon. The Heat 332 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,039 are going to advance, and I just have been thinking in terms of like, 333 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,039 well, what do you what do you do now? Because I don't 334 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,079 think the right answer is you break up Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum unless you 335 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,400 just it's the financial stuff. You don't want to pay Jaylen Brown what he's 336 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,200 gonna cost on his next deal. Because Tatum, I think is you just 337 00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:23,839 that's not a player you let go. I don't care that he's had bad 338 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:27,319 fourth quarters and bad games. He's had great games and he's still really young, 339 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,160 And just that's a guy I'm fine with as my cornerstone. But I 340 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,119 also think about like they're one of the last four teams standing, they've been 341 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,119 to the finals, they've had a ton of playoff runs. You'd be really 342 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:51,359 hard pressed to find the moves that would certainly get you back to this level. 343 00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:53,960 You know, if you're gonna make a bunch of changes, you know, 344 00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:59,559 certainly significant ones to their main players, like good luck, good luck 345 00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:03,440 getting a team that has this ceiling, right, So like that makes it 346 00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,599 naturally Well what about the coach? And there's a lot of noise around Joe 347 00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:11,720 Missoula, And I think some of it's probably warranted. Just a four year 348 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:15,000 deal, right and extend three of those are guaranteed? Are they're really going 349 00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:21,160 to get Maybe he's not making as much as Judoka was, but like a 350 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,319 coach with three year years left at his deal, you're really getting rid of 351 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:29,559 him. Yeah, But I mean if the alternative is whatever other the alternatives 352 00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:30,960 are, they're all more drastic than just getting rid of the coach that you 353 00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:34,640 probably you never intended to be the head coach this year anyway, you know 354 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,160 you can. The four year deal was kind of kind of wild. But 355 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,839 yeah, I think whatever else you do will be more questionable than moving on 356 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,519 from the coach that you know, everybody's complained all year about. He doesn't 357 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:51,920 call timeouts and I don't really care about that, but some of the tactical 358 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,519 stuff, some of just the hate we have we have to go here. 359 00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:59,079 I hate this, we have to go here. Everybody I think was correct 360 00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:03,400 that said the Celtics you know, quit and that they've lacked fight, and 361 00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:07,319 you know, just something feels wrong, and it's just it feels like maybe 362 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:14,519 they we we can't go any farther without just completely speculating, but it seems 363 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,240 like it's motivational. It seems like maybe they don't trust what they're doing. 364 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:21,039 It seems like maybe they're frustrated or just don't buy in, you know, 365 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,480 And so like I think, probably that's got to go on Missoula, because 366 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,880 unless stuff comes out about you know, player relationships and things just aren't working 367 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,920 well. But again, like I just it's it's a tough spot to be 368 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,119 in because I think the knee jerk reaction, like the way that this series 369 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:44,200 has gone just is the type of thing that spurs teams to do drastic stuff. 370 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,960 And I just don't know if that's like if you're just talking about maximizing 371 00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:53,240 or trying to make like the right almost like statistical decision or like you can't 372 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,200 think of the right way to phrase it, but the odds of you improving 373 00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,880 on what the Celtics are right now by making a lot of personnel changes are 374 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,079 pretty low. So I just don't know. I don't know how how in 375 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,160 I am on the idea of let's like, let's really tear this thing apart, 376 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,440 and I think, look, it's and when you're looking at this series 377 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,759 specifically, the opponent's points off turnovers fertually the same. The Celtics have won 378 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:23,759 the points in the paint battle, they've won the second chance points battle and 379 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,599 where the real and they've won the transition points battle. They're plus fourteen in 380 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,200 transition for the series and second chance points, which means that they have missed 381 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,200 more shots like they're plus seventeen like a lot of where they've lost this game 382 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,240 this series. Look the heat, they're shooting like sixty percent on wide open 383 00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:42,920 series, like their shooters have gotten really hot. But while they were questions 384 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,759 about those shooters in the regular season, it was all like, oh, 385 00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,119 well, Kyle Howry isn't performing up to stuff and Strus is having a down 386 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,039 year. The fact that those guys are now hitting shots, and I still 387 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,160 will argue that Duncan Robinson putting the ball on the floor came out of nowhere 388 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,079 For me. I must not have watched the heat closely enough. But they've 389 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,720 lost it from three because they're shooting thirty two point six percent on wide open 390 00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:07,839 threes. And I think for the series, I should have had this queued 391 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:14,400 up to see how many more three like Miami is making like more than four 392 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,160 threes a game on average than the Celtics, and they are. They've made 393 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,319 thirteen more three, so plus thirty nine from beyond the arc for the series. 394 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,319 That's a big difference when you're looking at especially how close those first two 395 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,960 games right. And I will say what I think has been the two things 396 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,519 that have stood out is Boston and this has always been the case with them. 397 00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:37,079 If they can't get into their early offense, it does feel like it's 398 00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:38,960 a mess, and a lot of them getting into their early offense is hey, 399 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:44,480 we need to get stops and they have not been able to get It 400 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:48,359 feels like they haven't been able to get stops adequately enough against Miami in the 401 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,759 half court. Miami has a one oh six point three offensive rating and the 402 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:57,039 half court, which is monstrous for a half court offensive rating in this series. 403 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,599 So and that's monstrous overall of ranked first in the regular season by like 404 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,359 light years. Yeah, and when you look at what's happening where they're letting 405 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,480 Duncan Robinson get buy them off the dribble, it just doesn't make any sense. 406 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,400 And it speaks to I know, and Joe Missoul has been hard on 407 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,759 himself by attributing this to a lack of preparedness on his part, and pardon 408 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,839 me, does appreciate whenever you know, people are gonna troll him. And 409 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,480 I've seen a lot of jokes about how he uses timeouts and I laugh at 410 00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:29,839 them because jokes are funny. But at some point it's like, I'm not 411 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,000 going to criticize, and they're saying, well, you know, Judoka held 412 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,559 these guys accountable in the media, and that was the better way to go. 413 00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:37,920 I mean, you want to quibble over that. At some point they're 414 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,880 like, you need to hold the players responsible. And I think it was 415 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,920 Jalen Brown or Tatum said this after Game three, like he's not They said, 416 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,759 he's not out there bricking shots and so like, I just can't. 417 00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:51,440 I don't know how much blame to ascribe to MISSOULI here. This team just 418 00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:56,599 like is hitting its nay dear at at the worst possible time. I will 419 00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,799 to actually respond to your point. That's the dilemma they face. And I 420 00:27:59,799 --> 00:28:03,039 think people have tried to oversimplify this where I saw a lot of people think 421 00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:07,119 the Celtics should break up or make up draft to train change because they've been 422 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,559 together for so long, whereas other people like okay, well, Jayson Tatum 423 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:15,200 and Jalen Brown are still so young, why would you do that? And 424 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,480 I see both sides of the argument. You're about to Jayson Tatum next summer 425 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,799 is gonna be eligible, not this summer. Next Sumer's gonna be eligible to 426 00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:25,119 sign a three hundred plus million dollar extension. Jalen Brown's eligible to sign a 427 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,839 two hundred ninety five million dollar extension this summer. That's a big financial commitment 428 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:32,160 to make to this course, so you need to be sure. But I 429 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,440 think you could also argue that those guys who are more valuable if you need 430 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,200 to trade them on those deals and ice CU towards you is I don't know 431 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,200 how you get substantially better on one end of the floor, and it would 432 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,680 have to be I think it would probably be if you're looking at this team, 433 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,839 unless you're that concerned about the aging curve of Al Horford and the health 434 00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,240 of Robert Williams. The third it's you probably want an upgrade at the point 435 00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:56,960 guard spot where it's like kind of it's fine that you have Marcus Smart and 436 00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,759 Jayson Tatum and Jalon Brown and Malcolm Brogdon and Derek White, but a lot 437 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,559 of those guys are either secondary playmakers connective passers where you need a you know, 438 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,119 I if Trey Young or Damian Lillard were to become available, if you 439 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,559 wanted to go nuclear, should the Celtics be involved in those discussions? And 440 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,319 I get the impetus to say yes, But I'm also just like, I 441 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:21,480 do understand what you just said and how other people mean when they're saying okay, 442 00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:23,000 well, like Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are still so young and his 443 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:26,359 team is still so talented. Wouldn't it make more sense to try and futs 444 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,480 and fiddle on the margins than it would to go that seismic route. And 445 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,759 if I don't think, I'll say, is this becomes less of an issue 446 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,880 of Jalen Brown makes the decision for them. If he decides I'm not going 447 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,880 to sign my supermax this year, you have to trade him. You can't 448 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,000 let him go into unrestricted free agency if he turns down the Supermax. No, 449 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:51,200 I don't think so. I'm just the point guard point is well taken. 450 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,359 I think when I so, if the criticism of the Celtics is that, 451 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,440 and I guess we have to start on offense, but we probably shouldn't 452 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,240 overlook the fact that this is primarily a defensive team that is not guarding. 453 00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:07,519 And that's that's an issue. The worst version of the Celtics the ball stops. 454 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,079 Like we've I feel like I at least have mentioned this every time we 455 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,279 talk about them, Like the when it goes bad for Boston, the ball 456 00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:18,640 stops. The turnovers start the ball. The ball maybe swings around the perimeter, 457 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,759 but it doesn't touch the paint first, and the Heat have been like 458 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,559 there was did you see that thing about somebody's screen caps and Eric's bolstro locker 459 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,200 room moment where they had on the screen behind him. Their points per play 460 00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,559 on paint touches versus non paint touches and it's like one point six eight to 461 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,279 one point oh something, and it's just like, oh, yeah, that's 462 00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:41,160 why the Heat have played better offense is they're just getting into the paint before 463 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,920 they start the churn, basically, and the Celtics don't do that as effectively, 464 00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:49,279 especially in those really ugly stretches where they just look like they can't figure 465 00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:53,000 out how to play offense. So I think you probably want somebody that can 466 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:56,960 just get into the paint and start the machine moving like the Heat seemed to 467 00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,119 have. Everyone on the roster seems to be able to by their guy and 468 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160 get into the lane and you know, at least draw help or put the 469 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,319 defense in rotation. It's a really terrible free agent market for point guards. 470 00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,039 Boston doesn't have the money to sign one. You're talking about trades, so 471 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,160 yeah, but that's where it starts. And then after that, I don't 472 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,400 really know what you do. This is the kind of series that makes you 473 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,720 reevaluate everything and like frankly like one positionals they made the finals last year, 474 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,680 Like they like one position with the same team minus Malcolm Brown, Like there's 475 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,200 just like the positional switch or you know, upgrading a little bit. I 476 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,680 don't know how much it matters. The more I think about it and talk 477 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,160 about it, the more it seems like a coaching thing, whether it's motivational 478 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,319 or tactical. Like there's enough talent on this roster like one through eight, 479 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:51,400 probably seven maybe to to not be facing the possibility of a sweep that like 480 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,359 you know, there might be minor injuries, but it's not like they're missing 481 00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,160 Jalen Brown or they're it's not like they're I mean, some m'd argue the 482 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,960 Celtics in this series would be doing better if Jalen Brown were't playing because he's 483 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,240 be so bad. But like, you know, there's not the heat, 484 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:08,359 don't have Tyler hero like right like that for a team that our biggest questions 485 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:13,279 about them were offensively, they lose probably their second best shot creator after Jimmy 486 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:16,480 Butler, and it just doesn't matter. So the Celtics aren't in that position. 487 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:21,119 So I don't have a lot to add other than I just don't think 488 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,759 it's personnel. You know, I don't think it is. I guess my 489 00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:28,519 final question on the Celtics because we need to talk about the Bute, do 490 00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:31,480 you think that the coaching market as it stands right now as we're recording this 491 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,759 makes it more appealing to say or easier to make the decision of like, 492 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:39,359 yeah, we shouldn't have given Missoula this extension, or we don't think he's 493 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:43,079 the right fit. We think he's going to be a talented, up and 494 00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:45,799 coming coach, but it's just not what we need right now. Is it 495 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:47,960 easier to make that call knowing that you could just bring back doc Rivers? 496 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,640 That makes men at least I know you're listening to me. I wanted to 497 00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,720 well, I was like, wait, did he say Doccer because I was 498 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:01,880 thinking, oh, yeah, like Nurse or even Buddenholder or like Frank Vogel 499 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,079 could probably, But so do you think it makes it? Though you mentioned 500 00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:09,359 the guys that are out there, do you think it's like even ty Luke 501 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,240 maybe become available. Have all that those rumblings in LA right now? It 502 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:21,359 has to there's like a kind of a like an embarrassment of like coaches that 503 00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:24,680 you know, not only that have that seem like they'd be upgrades from an 504 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,240 experience standpoint, but guys that have like one titles and been to finals and 505 00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:36,240 you know, I just if you want to knock, but there there, 506 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,440 we know the knocks on all these guys. They got fired for reasons, 507 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:44,359 I guess, But like, I just I find it hard to believe that 508 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,440 Budden Buddenholder, for example, like would at least like have more of an 509 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,759 offensive system that wouldn't just fall apart. Like that's you know, they're probably 510 00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:58,240 Milwaukee fans that are like saying, oh, actually that's not so much true, 511 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,119 but or Nurse would it least try some weird different stuff. I just 512 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:08,079 you know, coaching is the easiest thing to change, and there's no guarantee 513 00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:12,800 it'll be better, But I just have a hard time imagining it would be 514 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,639 any worse if if they've made a change, and there are good options out 515 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,679 there, for sure, Kenny Atkinson even I like, he's probably gonna get 516 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,320 hired before the Celtics are, you know, really starting their search. But 517 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,320 there's there's tons of options. There's I find an interesting that people don't think 518 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,920 he can coach a good team. By the way, when it comes to 519 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,760 Kenny Atkinson, I think Brooklyn was a He's known as a developmental coach because 520 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,920 of what he did in Atlanta and also Brooklyn, but he was dealt. 521 00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:40,760 He wasn't given a chance and that was the ancestor the Heat, though I 522 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,519 don't really know, They're just I want to make this clear, we were 523 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:50,119 wrong about the Heat. I think the Heat were wrong about the Heat. 524 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,519 If you pulled them internally, everyone aside, I think from Jimmy Butler would 525 00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:58,800 not have expected. I don't even know what Jimmy Butler expected this. There 526 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,519 are reports coming out that they we're disenchanted by Kyle Lowry entering the playoffs, 527 00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:06,239 and now he just comes in and he's just super important to what they're doing 528 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:12,360 defensively connector on offense. They're getting their supporting cast to hit their looks, 529 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,679 and I mean, I can't like I'm Caleb Martin has been fantastic for much 530 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:22,239 of the postseason. The Duncan Robin Robinson renaissance we already mentioned, been incredible. 531 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,239 Max Shrus He's had some peaks and valleys here, but he's been huge 532 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:29,960 form Gabe Vincent will go through these streaks where just like the shot selection feels 533 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,400 putrid, but they almost need him to take those shots because one sometimes they 534 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,199 go in and too they put like a different sort of pressure on the defense. 535 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,559 Bam has been I feel like that's kind of flown under the radars. 536 00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:42,440 Yeah, he's not having like eighty field goal attemts every single game, but 537 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,280 he's been super aggressive for like long pockets of time offensively, and he's just 538 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,119 like this defensive Like I don't even know what the word is, just absolute 539 00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:55,400 monster they are. I don't I mean, like even having Kevin love and 540 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,880 like being able to push that button. I don't know that I can wrap 541 00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:01,159 my head around the Heat, and I wanted to know if you have any 542 00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:06,239 overarching thoughts on them, But I also wanted to Someone asked me this when 543 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,559 I went on a podcast the other day. Do you see teams trying to 544 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:13,559 replicate what the Heat have done? And my answer was just like, I 545 00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:17,599 don't think any team can count on on earthing as many hidden gems, that 546 00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:22,159 this is not a replicable model because it's so unique, and I would argue 547 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,440 so fragile that I don't even think the Heat. We go to the off 548 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,960 season, I think they win the title, They're still gonna be opportunistic when 549 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,079 it comes to making like I don't want to get into the roster changes, 550 00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:36,440 but I don't not that I don't view I guess I'm saying I don't view 551 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,079 this as sustainable. But this is such a it's such a shock, and 552 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:43,719 there's definitely an element of sustainability to it because like we've seen the Heat do 553 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400 this before with this they went to the Eastern Conference finals last year largely with 554 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,679 this same group. But I will say outside of Miami, this is not 555 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,760 something whenever we talk about champions or finals like finals participants, it's yeah, 556 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,400 teams are gonna be on the lookout to do the like you can't do what 557 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,239 the Heat are doing. You just can't. No, I mean, and 558 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:06,159 you don't even need to like dig that deeply into that statement to validate it, 559 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,119 because they're the eighth. They're an eighth seed, Like they lost the 560 00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:13,239 first playing game. It's just like it's the improbability of where they are is 561 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,000 so great that like trying to do whatever it is that they've done is like 562 00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:21,280 that's stupid, because what's that that's going to get you the eighth seed if 563 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,760 you're lucky, and you might squeak into the playoffs. And then basically, 564 00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:29,639 if you're saying let's replicate what the Heat are doing, you're saying, let's 565 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:35,519 have every single relevant player who has contributed just play better than they did at 566 00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:38,320 any point during the year, Like everyone a good novel concept. Yeah, 567 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,480 it's like, oh, let's just you know, yeah, it's like every 568 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,920 the joke on Twitter is always like, okay, well let's talk adjustments after 569 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,639 this playoff loss, and it's like, well, there's always the play better 570 00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:52,480 adjustment, right, or like shoot better adjustment, the Heat like have like 571 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:55,280 that's what this is. They've all just played better now. That detracts from 572 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,000 certainly Eric's bolstra. I think I think one thing will take away from these 573 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,760 playoffs. One is that we can't make jokes about like you can't make side 574 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,599 eyes that heat culture anymore as like a thing, because it's clearly a thing, 575 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:10,639 and it's like that's a real thing. It's not like, oh, 576 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,199 you can't roll your eyes. And the other thing will be that Eric Spoelstra 577 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,719 is the best coach in the league, right, Like, you can't take 578 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,840 an eight seed this deep and have the previous track record that he does, 579 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,679 and then just like discuss anyone else in that position, and I think, 580 00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:32,599 so, yeah, everyone play better. Can't replicate that and then have probably 581 00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:37,000 the best coach in the league hard to replicate that. I think like the 582 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,760 thing that struck me in every series so far, and the Heat haven't been 583 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:49,559 perfect, but like it always seems like they their adjustments are proactive and the 584 00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:53,679 things that they change cause trouble for the other team, as opposed to being 585 00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:58,039 in the position where you're thinking, well, how are the Heat going to 586 00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:01,000 deal with this? It's always like, well, they're fine, and then 587 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,800 now the other team has to figure out what to do when the offense installed. 588 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,400 But now bam Adebayo is bringing the ball up and initiating the offense, 589 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,360 what do we do with that? And and like, yeah, all of 590 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,519 that looks better when Caleb Martin can't miss and Gabe Vincent is playing with the 591 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:19,599 confidence of like an All NBA player, And same with Struss, Duncan, 592 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,440 Duncan Robinson like the fact that he was out of the rotation and basically a 593 00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:30,119 pariah because he signed that big contract after a great year, and it maybe 594 00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:32,800 more more than one great year. But then they're just like not playing and 595 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:38,679 now he's in like integral part of how they're succeeding offensively against theoretically a really 596 00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:45,199 good defense if they played multiple good defenses. That's like talk about not replicable 597 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,280 having a guy basically you lose. Usually you lose that guy. We joked 598 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,480 about D'Angelo Russell, but like usually it's you don't see the guy relegated to 599 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,400 like you don't play anymore, and then he's called on in the playoffs and 600 00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:01,079 is like somehow a better, ver version of the best version of himself. 601 00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:06,360 He's not just a spot shooter or a movement shooter, right, Like I've 602 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,920 just never seeing him put the ball on the floor so often as I have. 603 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,480 And it's not just the series, by the way, No, it's 604 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:14,440 it's still been the whole point. It's when he's played, he's been he's 605 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,840 been better than the best version of himself. So yeah, you can't replicate 606 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,119 this other than to say, like maybe you should. Maybe we should emphasize 607 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:28,760 continuity. Maybe we should emphasize like really demanding conditioning standards which the heat have. 608 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:35,480 Maybe we should emphasize whatever it is Miami's got going where nobody seems to 609 00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:39,840 care like who gets the credit or who it's it's it's just like we're like 610 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,079 shoveling cliches on because like statistically, all we can point to is like, 611 00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:47,400 yeah, they're making all their shots and they're playing great defense on a per 612 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,239 possession basis, and like yeah, okay, cool. Like if you're going 613 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,679 to replicate stuff, I guess it's gotta be the hashtag heat culture stuff, 614 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,960 which like doesn't appeal to every type of player, by the way, Like 615 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,079 there are a lot of guys that I think probably don't want to play in 616 00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:05,239 Miami because it's hard or it's demanding. You've got to pass all these conditioning 617 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,360 tests and all you know, you hear all the stories about their offseason stuff 618 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,480 and how just it's harder. Maybe harder is better. I don't know, 619 00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:15,559 is that the takeaway we've gone soft as a society. We should all aspire 620 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,800 to kill ourselves in practice and workouts like the heat too. I don't know. 621 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,199 I don't know. Nobody has an answer, Dan, Like nobody has 622 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,599 an answer. It could just be Jimmy Baller and Eriks boolstro exist. Yeah, 623 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,039 yeah, they're just like two of a kind. And that's all it 624 00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:31,119 is. You can't have them, and if you don't have them, this 625 00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:34,800 can't happen for your team. I don't know. That's the other thing they've 626 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,360 done. It's just like the adjustments they're able to make on the fly, 627 00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:39,159 And you've kind of pointed to that, and Jared Weiss of the Athletic could 628 00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:43,880 point this out too, like they're willing to even just they will put defenses 629 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,119 where they want them by butchering their own spacing, like to just make sure 630 00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:52,400 the defenders they want are at certain spots on the floor. It's it's wild. 631 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:53,840 The question that I do think is cropped up as a result of this, 632 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,119 and I was curious what your thought on it was, do you think 633 00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:00,599 that what the heat are doing or maybe even what we've seen by them large 634 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:06,000 during these playoffs, because we did just see a set the Lakers as a 635 00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,280 seven seed make the conference finals in the second round was six verse seven. 636 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:15,480 Has it diminished the meaning of the regular season even further these these playoff results 637 00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:19,599 in your opinion, I mean, maybe a little bit, because now you've 638 00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:22,639 got well the play in first of all, it's it's like the plan is 639 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,880 never going away now, not that it was, but I think it does 640 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,039 make it, you know, a little more appealing. So maybe this leads 641 00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:35,840 to more load management, which would be not great because if you just believe 642 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,920 that you have the team that's good enough at full strength to make a deep 643 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,159 run, you don't really care where you get into the playoffs. I think 644 00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:44,920 you have to view it in conjunction with like, well, Denver's in number 645 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,800 one seed, and I think we both agree that they're going to be favored 646 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,679 in the finals, and so like, yeah, the seeding stuff still matters, 647 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:58,400 but certainly if you have a certain kind of team, maybe you care 648 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,880 even less about it's really pushed for the fifth seed or like or just what 649 00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:07,159 like, you know, the playoffs are you just never know what version of 650 00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:10,239 a top seed you're gonna see it. Just you might as well just focus 651 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,599 on getting in. I guess. So I think probably probably it does devalue 652 00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,159 the regular season a little bit more, which is like that's a big problem 653 00:43:17,159 --> 00:43:21,159 as it is. I don't know, I think maybe that's not great if 654 00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:23,960 that if that has that effect, Yeah, I don't know. I don't 655 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,960 know. Do you think it's I mean, it kind of has to, 656 00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,840 doesn't it. I kind of skew. No, because I think you look 657 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,679 at it the Heat specifically, like we're all these or even look at the 658 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,039 Lakers, like they were a completely different team by the end of the regular 659 00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,599 season because of yeah, there were some injuries, but also just like they 660 00:43:40,639 --> 00:43:44,480 overhauled their team at the deadline, and the case of the Heat, like 661 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,639 they had a bunch of guys missed time again this year, or they had 662 00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:50,599 guys going through slumps. It's not like, hey, they decide we're just 663 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,599 gonna we're gonna shelve Duncan Robinson until the playoffs and that's when we'll dust him 664 00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:58,360 off and we're gonna save him until then. And even just you look at 665 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,679 sort of the just the landscape where it does feel like injuries factor into it 666 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,199 as well. For I mean, like the Sixers, like they had missed 667 00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:12,960 time, James Harden had missed time this year, so like even I don't 668 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,599 know, like I guess in the West, it's more wild because we saw 669 00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:19,880 the six and the seventh seeded Lakers and Warriors get to the semifinals. Like 670 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,440 even the Warriors, okay, their personnel was by and Mars the same, 671 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,280 but they dealt with the punch at the beginning of the season and they never 672 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:30,400 really got any traction, and they have this championship pedigree, so it's not 673 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,960 shocking that they would beat the Kings when it took seven games to get there. 674 00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:37,960 And I just I guess if you want to say the regular season means 675 00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:42,079 less in the sense that it feels like we're going to see the best product 676 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:47,199 for each team on a lower frequency rate, I would probably agree. I 677 00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:52,800 don't know if that makes the regular season less meaningful because can the Heat just 678 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,159 simply choose to enter as the seven have the seventh best record and then just 679 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,800 make the finals. That's not a position that you active you want to put 680 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,599 yourself in. Yeah, it's not like the Heat weren't trying to win during 681 00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:07,079 the year. It's just that whatever they were trying didn't work as well. 682 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,000 Like that's yeah, that goes back to the like replicability of what they're doing. 683 00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:15,400 There's just like, this is not a model that you want to follow. 684 00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:19,559 Probably, yeah, I don't know, Like we probably don't need to 685 00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:23,800 jump all the way ahead to the Denver Miami matchup, partly because I'm just 686 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,239 not ready to think about that yet. But get ready for me recording that 687 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,119 sometime this week. I think, I know, I think so, I 688 00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:35,920 think that's likely. Yeah, I don't know. I do think. Well, 689 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,119 the other Miami thing that's going to be interesting is like how expensive or 690 00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:42,519 how much are they willing to pay to keep this this team together? And 691 00:45:42,559 --> 00:45:46,679 do they like do they view Gabe Vincent and Max Strus as like fungible because 692 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,239 they've got bird rights on both, But they could just say like, yeah, 693 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,239 we'll just find the next, you know, versions of these guys and 694 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,880 we can let them go get paid ten x what they're making now someplace else. 695 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,079 I like, I don't know, maybe that's maybe that's like, do 696 00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:05,719 we they just won't go out and find a Max Strews in the G League? 697 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,719 They're just like do well? Maybe I mean is that the takeaway is 698 00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:14,800 clearly the Heat have like great, they've scout better than everybody, and they 699 00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:17,320 see stuff in players that nobody else does and they develop it. Like maybe 700 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,880 that's where the real replicability of this thing is, is you just spend more 701 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,679 money or get better people at those types of things, because like you can't. 702 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,119 Just the Strus, Struwson Vincent in particular are just like I can't like 703 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,960 anyone could have had both of those guys for you know, years, just 704 00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:37,960 didn't happen. I don't know if they just I think they just got better. 705 00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:42,760 The heat made them better. That's what happened. The two other things 706 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,159 we want to ask you about the Bucks coaching search really quickly. It seems 707 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,559 like they've narrowed it down to Nick Nurse, Kenny Atkinson, or Adrian Griffin. 708 00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:54,360 Any thoughts on that. Nurse is kind of interesting most the most interesting 709 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,559 because the other guys are mainly career assistance with I guess you know Atkinson we've 710 00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:02,559 already meant does the NETS coach, But I would be curious to see what 711 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,320 Nurse would do with Janie and with like kind of a you know, if 712 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:12,880 it's an unusual setup where they've been defined by a very specific style both on 713 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:19,320 offense and defense under Buddenholzer. So like, I think, if if you're 714 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,719 of the opinion that Milwaukee has the talent to win a title, it just 715 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,440 needs to be kind of tweaked a little bit. I think Nurse is like, 716 00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:30,480 Nurse is the guy I would be just most curious to see what a 717 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,880 Bucks team would look like under him, because I don't feel like the other 718 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,320 guys would be as likely to make significant changes, but you know, maybe 719 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:42,199 it's hard to say because they're they're a little bit less, lesser known commodities. 720 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,679 But nurses urs is the most interesting, right just because I mean he 721 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,880 might also just not be a good coach. We don't know, Like he 722 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,280 got fired, so who can say I would be I kind of like Kenny 723 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,400 Atkinson to be the most interesting one. Actually, Andrean griff is the most 724 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:05,880 interesting one because with making a hiring of like this first time guy, no 725 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,559 idea, and so yeah, he's been part of these head coaching searches in 726 00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:14,960 the past, Like he's been prominently linked to a bunch of different jobs I 727 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,199 think over the past like three or four years or so. And I think 728 00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:20,880 he was even linked to the didn't he get an interview for the Raptors one 729 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,360 right now? Too? So I just and he's been an assistant with them 730 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,480 since what twenty and eighteen, I think, so he was, like, 731 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,920 but does it make the risk inherently less because he has such an extensive track 732 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,280 record as an assistant and he was an assistant on the championship team and in 733 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,519 Toronto. That's objectively the most interesting because I do think there's a look people 734 00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:44,159 know more, way more about what coaching than I'm ever gonna learn. But 735 00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:50,199 there is a level of it's easier to justify hiring the more established flash year 736 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,440 name when you're at the level that the Bucks are, which is, despite 737 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,559 what Jannis might say at the end of each season like a pretty much championship 738 00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:00,719 or bust for them, it's certainly it's more than you know, part of 739 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,760 the journey, like you want to make it out of the first round if 740 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:08,920 you're malwake like they're at that point. The hiring an assistant to replace the 741 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,519 departed head coach kind of a double edged sword, right, Like it could 742 00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:15,960 go either way, because in theory, this is a person that's in position 743 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:22,119 to know exactly what did not work, but it's also someone that probably ideologically 744 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:27,199 is somewhat aligned with the guy that just got fired, So it's hard to 745 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,519 know like which way that's gonna cut. And always players always like, you 746 00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:35,519 know, the assistance more just because they're never they're generally the good cops, 747 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,760 So like, oh, you always hear that players like support the hiring of 748 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:44,480 the you know, an in house assistant. It's just because like they're familiar, 749 00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,639 and probably that's not been the guy that said you're getting benched or is 750 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:52,239 killing you in film sessions or whatever like that's it's tricky. I don't know. 751 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,960 I don't know which way that cuts I eat, but I would be 752 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,159 interested, I guess, to see any of them there. Kenny Atkinson is 753 00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:02,119 the one that I feel like might be the most inventive for them on offense, 754 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,199 or maybe not inventive, because Nick Nurse is known as this tactician, 755 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,119 but like he also the Raptors had talent, and like they weren't able to 756 00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:12,480 win a whole bunch of games this year, and so I'm just yeah, 757 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,639 and also I know a lot of people. One of the complaints was that 758 00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:20,679 Bud wouldn't play some of the most prominent players enough, and then Nick Nurse 759 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,679 might skew all the way to the other end of the spectrum, where if 760 00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:25,599 the Bucks don't materially change their depth or mean, we talk about Giannis averaging 761 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,559 like thirty nine minutes the game yet year or something, which probably skews too 762 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:34,280 far towards that extreme ende of the spectrum. I would be most fascinated by 763 00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:38,199 the Kenny Atkinson higher though, because I think that would bring just knowing his 764 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,039 offensive tenants like from Brooklyn and then spending so much time with the Warriors. 765 00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:46,119 Now, I think he could have. And maybe I'm just undervaluing nurse here 766 00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:50,519 and don't know enough about Griffin. It's all very possible. I think he 767 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:57,559 might have the most visible influence on how the Bucks play and operate. Wasn't 768 00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,920 he under Budenholzer in Atlanta? Did I imagine that? I can't remember Atlanta? 769 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,199 Was that during the Buddenholser error? I don't know. I don't know, 770 00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:08,119 because like Quinn Snyder was there too, right, wasn't he so? 771 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,119 I want yeah, I think it was. So maybe you run into like 772 00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:15,239 he's just gonna come in and have a little bit too much Coach Budd in 773 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:21,480 him. I think Atkinson, though, probably feels the safest. You were 774 00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:23,000 right by the way he was there. He was he crossed over with the 775 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,119 Booden. Thank you. I was trying to vamp while you looked that up. 776 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,440 I guess I could have done that. I don't know. Yeah, 777 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,559 he feels the safest now. But although now I'm concerned, I've talked myself 778 00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:36,639 into being concerned about Atkinson just basically doing but think about how long ago that 779 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,599 was. That was like yeah, yea, but yeah, no, I 780 00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:44,239 guess what, Bucks, there's no good coach. Just bring Buddenholzer back. 781 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:49,440 That's probably what the takeaway should be. I'm are you surprised that Monty Williams 782 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,199 hasn't been heavy like that he's not one of the finalists for this gig? 783 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,199 Yeah, I don't. Yeah, actually, I'm I don't know what to 784 00:51:55,239 --> 00:52:00,679 think about him, because I think we both agree that he was maybe one 785 00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:06,480 of the more surprising firings, so he would think that he would be pretty 786 00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:08,159 close at the top of the list for almost everybody. I wonder if maybe 787 00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:13,880 he's not looking to get back into coaching right away just because his name. 788 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,960 Yeah, like you put his name next to some of the assistants that are 789 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,599 getting considered. It's kind of like, I mean, Monty Williams has been 790 00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:23,519 coaching the year twice, right, and like has been to the finals recently. 791 00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:25,639 Is one a bunch of games like it seems like, and it seems 792 00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:30,679 to be very highly respected. Although again, like we said when he got 793 00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:34,519 fired, if Kevin Durant and Devin Booker had absolutely wanted him back, he 794 00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,800 would probably still be there, so who knows right? And I'm sure that 795 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,840 he wouldn't use DeAndre Aden as a reference for no, no, no, 796 00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:45,519 do not call. He's on the do not call list. The Lakers, 797 00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:49,880 who we talk about shockingly little on this podcast. You ever realize that we 798 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,800 talk about it? Should that be like our brand, like we're the pocket 799 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,199 natural pockets that doesn't ever talk about the Lakers, very little Lakers. A 800 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,719 lot to unpack. I do want to start with and I did text you 801 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:04,960 about this just now while we were recording. It might be germane to our 802 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,480 time crunch here, but Lebron sort of mentioning that he has a lot to 803 00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:13,519 figure out, hinting at the idea that oh he could retire. I likened 804 00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:15,400 it too. I want to get your tho. This is my analogy. 805 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:22,800 You've run twenty marathons, trained and run twenty marathons one per year. Immediately 806 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:29,760 after crossing the finished line of number twenty, immediately you're asked whether you are 807 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,079 going to run next year's and when you're going to start training for it. 808 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:38,920 Now you're exhausted. Depending on how you finished, you're blinded by euphoria or 809 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:46,199 disappointment or something in maybe indifference. I would say that your answer could stand 810 00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:52,559 to be a little cryptic or be dripping with an unintended sense of finality, 811 00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:55,760 and that's what I sort of chalk this up to, or could just be 812 00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,119 a scare tactic. I'm just curious as to what where land on the Lebron's 813 00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:06,119 hanging. And look, it was the report from Bleacher Reports Chris Haynes that 814 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,039 Lebron is gonna consider retirement. Yeah, so this is not like a oh, 815 00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:15,960 Lebron misspoke, This is sourced reporting that Lebron is apparently going to consider 816 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,599 retirements offseason. What do you make about Yeah, I mean I would add 817 00:54:17,639 --> 00:54:22,960 to your analogy that you're also way you're way past the age that anyone else 818 00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:28,960 has voluntarily continued to run marathons, Like you shouldn't even have run this one, 819 00:54:29,039 --> 00:54:32,199 probably just based on you know, what normal people do. So yeah, 820 00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,880 no, that is a great way to frame it. That was my 821 00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:39,159 very first well, because I'm a relentless cynic, my very first thought was 822 00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,760 like, well, he's found a way to dominate the news cycle for a 823 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,880 few days. Again, like this is you know, being in the being 824 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,719 in the spotlight is a good thing for financially and just for attention purposes and 825 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,760 whatever. I've backed off that a little bit, but I do think it's 826 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,320 like the worst time to ask. To your point, it's the worst time 827 00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,199 to ask somebody like what their intentions are? You know. I think you 828 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,280 get some version of this. Sometimes you get the guy that says, not 829 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,800 not specific to are you gonna play next year, but to like, you 830 00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:09,880 know what, what's the plan? How do you feel? It's like, 831 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,719 get right back to it, you know, just work hard in the offseason, 832 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,599 start tomorrow, you know. Do you get that sometimes? But most 833 00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:20,519 of the time, everybody's just like I need a break. I'm gonna take 834 00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:23,440 some time off and then you know, I'll get back to basketball when I 835 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,800 get back to it. This is just an extreme version of that. I 836 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:30,079 think, like if he wouldn't it be more surprising if he had said, 837 00:55:30,159 --> 00:55:35,519 like, you know, I feel great. Uh, this was not difficult. 838 00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,960 I didn't play hurt for my three months. My body everything hurts. 839 00:55:39,039 --> 00:55:43,920 I'm thirty eight, Like I have more mileage than anyone. This year, 840 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,119 I finished scoring more points than anyone's ever scored. Like, but I just 841 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,760 want, you know, I want more. Like of course, he's just 842 00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:52,880 at the end of his rope. He's tired. Like, you know, 843 00:55:53,199 --> 00:55:58,679 if he hadn't said if he had, if he had unequivocally said ready to 844 00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,519 get back at it, like that would be way weirder like that. I 845 00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:06,599 couldn't imagine someone saying that he was gotten drug tested on the spot if he 846 00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:08,480 said that after playing basically all forty eight minutes. I know, we had 847 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,280 that like five second rest at the end of the first half of Game four, 848 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,960 and he dropped forty points fifty and twenty five, shooting nine assists, 849 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,039 and it still wasn't enough. You have to like be sitting there like what 850 00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:22,119 the fuck? Yeah, what do I gotta do? I mean, like, 851 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,360 I think there was another quote either yesterday or today about you know, 852 00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:29,039 I think maybe it was in the hands piece, about something the effect of 853 00:56:29,079 --> 00:56:30,760 like because I'm still better than ninety to ninety five percent of players in the 854 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:37,960 league, which is basically true. So like he'll be back, right, 855 00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:42,199 I mean, like he signed to go ahead, not that it matters to 856 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,599 him, You're probably gonna say the same thing, but he's like got forty 857 00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:47,639 six point seven million coming next year and another fifty and twenty four twenty five 858 00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:52,480 if he wants it like he doesn't need money anymore, but like that's like 859 00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:55,880 one hundred ish million dollars that is just there, and it's to like to 860 00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,239 do a thing you like to do. Anyway, I think I was I 861 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:05,639 was talking to somebody about this yesterday. Actually, it really just just it 862 00:57:05,679 --> 00:57:12,559 comes down to, like what level of play is he comfortable like displaying to 863 00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:15,599 the world, you know, like how how how interested is he in continuing 864 00:57:15,639 --> 00:57:21,039 to play if he's like the fiftieth best player in the league or something like 865 00:57:21,079 --> 00:57:23,320 that. Like I can understand where if he feels like that's where he is, 866 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,079 like maybe you don't want the Jordan Wizards like kind of look towards the 867 00:57:28,199 --> 00:57:32,480 end, but he's an All NBA level player still, and like he can 868 00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:37,079 be the second best player on a contender, like that's what he sometimes he 869 00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:39,480 was the best player on a contender this year. They were one of the 870 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:44,159 final four teams. Like, you know, I think he's got at least 871 00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:47,360 a couple more years of you know, being in consideration for an All NBA 872 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,480 spot, So it's hard to imagine that he's at that. Like that's the 873 00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,559 reason, like he's you're not embarrassing himself, but like doesn't want to tarnish 874 00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:59,880 the legacy that he's made by like kind of limping to the finish. He's 875 00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:04,320 that's that's not that's not where we are yet. No, and I would 876 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,639 agree with you there. My favorite one is that said he had to play 877 00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:12,480 with DeAngelo Russell and it drove him into retirement. Uh, I want to 878 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,719 ask about Russell, like, we don't need to do the full post mortem, 879 00:58:15,719 --> 00:58:19,880 but like he did, but I wanted to wrap up on the Lebron 880 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,440 stuff. Is I like the idea. Actually I found this funny is that 881 00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:28,199 people said he didn't want Mellow to have his day like Carmelo Anthony retires and 882 00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:30,199 he didn't want Melody and also just he couldn't deal like he needed to make 883 00:58:30,239 --> 00:58:32,800 sure that he was going to be a headline for the next few days as 884 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,679 we're getting ready for Nuggets heat. But I also like the idea of it 885 00:58:36,719 --> 00:58:39,880 being in This progresses into the larger discussion of Deanzel Russell of their own free 886 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:45,599 agents, that he wants to continue to apply pressure to the organization to make 887 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,360 upgrades rather than say, okay, well you trade a first round pick and 888 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:53,159 you could bring everybody back. And I find it hysterical that favorable reporting for 889 00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:57,079 the Lakers is they're gonna do anything they can to bring back Ruby, hatch 890 00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:00,840 Moore and Austin Reeves when it's the only thing they need to do is match 891 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,320 whatever contract to offer. Those guys perceive right as literally all they need to 892 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,360 do so, And I mean, I think if I had to vote, 893 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,119 the money certainly matters, but I would think that this is more of a 894 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,360 scare tactic or a chess move on the bronze part. And oh and by 895 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:20,000 the way, we didn't mention this playing on like one foot basically, and 896 00:59:20,039 --> 00:59:24,039 so he's probably confronting the idea of do I need surgery that's gonna Could he 897 00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:28,079 miss a bunch of time next season? Like that might also factor into this 898 00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:31,400 too. I think I think the main reason is like he felt like shit 899 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:36,119 like after that game because he gave everything he had and this season was hard 900 00:59:36,159 --> 00:59:38,079 and the Lakers did not win a lot. There's a tough regular season. 901 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:43,440 He got hurt again, Like that's that's what this was, but more so 902 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,920 than the you know, the news cycle domination and whatever else. But yeah, 903 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,559 it's just like wrong time to ask ask ask him something like that. 904 00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:58,360 So Hachemer and Reeves have to be back, right, whatever it costs, 905 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,679 they have to bring both the The most they can offer Reeves is fifty one 906 01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:04,360 million over four or something like that, but they can match up to whatever 907 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,239 you can get, which is into the like what team is going to poison 908 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,440 pill him? Maybe Utah are Santo? Would you Tare san Antonio even do 909 01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:14,519 that? I think it would be stupid just because you know they're gonna match. 910 01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:15,880 I guess maybe if you want to stick it to the Lakers, but 911 01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:19,599 I mean, actually, if you know they're gonna match, I'm inclined to 912 01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:22,360 do it. Well, but it's like you're tying up your resources a little 913 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,519 bit too, right, Like it's not just you know, I guess maybe 914 01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:29,960 not. I don't know that he has to be back. Reeves has to 915 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:34,519 be back. You can't like if if if if any of Lebron's like I'm 916 01:00:34,519 --> 01:00:37,800 not sure about retiring talk had to do with like applying pressure to the Lakers. 917 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:43,719 You can't let above all else. You can't let Reeves get away because 918 01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:45,920 you're not willing to spend what it takes to match an offer sheet like that. 919 01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:50,960 If that happens, I mean, like, what's your one. What's 920 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,880 your alternative as the Lakers, Like where are you going to replace him in 921 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:58,079 free agency? How are you going to do that? And then what do 922 01:00:58,119 --> 01:01:00,719 you say to Lebron? Like what a senate are you giving him that? 923 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,039 Because you're running out of assets. You traded one of those firsts. You 924 01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:07,440 don't have like an endless supply of other assets to make another, you know, 925 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:13,239 mid season overhaul. And the other thing here though, is I didn't 926 01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:15,079 want to add because it gets into yes, you could say Reeves and Hatchmore 927 01:01:15,159 --> 01:01:19,360 need to be back, and Reeves is cap hold is so small that that's 928 01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:27,199 fine. Whatever does how this postseason unfolded make it more or less appealing to 929 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,280 go the cap space route, which would basically be you could keep Reeves, 930 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:36,800 ad Lebron, Vanderbilt and Max Christy and like, you're still not going to 931 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,280 get to thirty million dollars in room because I just you could if you're gonna 932 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,400 get rid of Vanderbilt, like you better trade him, you better not just 933 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,840 waive him. But like Beliek Beasley as that team option d lows a free 934 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:50,639 agent, we just said Ruyachramore's free agent, their cap holds are also enormous 935 01:01:50,679 --> 01:01:52,880 and I'm just curious. Yeah, we talked about Ruby being important to this 936 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,880 team, how much do you actually want to pay ruy Hatimura moving forward? 937 01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,800 And like it doesn't has it made it more appealing or less appealing? Like 938 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:06,000 I'll just repeat the question that I had to go the cap space route after 939 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,280 watching this postseason seeing how these playoffs ended for them. So who's worth it 940 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,599 out there? For? What you if you say you could clear about thirty, 941 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:19,719 is that that's like the conservative like the max number that they aggressive estimate 942 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:24,239 thirty? Who's worth that that's gonna be better than kind of keeping most of 943 01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:30,760 the band together. Everyone's gonna say Kyrie, but like it seems like he's 944 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,519 got a handshake deal with Dallas that's going to be from much more than that. 945 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,440 So I don't know. I don't think it is worth it to go 946 01:02:38,519 --> 01:02:44,159 the cap space route. I think like a DeAngelo Russell signing trade, is 947 01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:46,480 that something like is that your real tool? Like I'm not sure because I 948 01:02:46,519 --> 01:02:49,800 don't know how in demand Russell is going to be. I just think you 949 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,440 probably don't want him back that what it might cost to keep him, and 950 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:58,480 so you should try to turn that into something else, but it's been a 951 01:02:58,519 --> 01:03:02,280 wild ride. Trade him to Washington to get Kuzma back. He could. 952 01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:05,840 I mean, like, I don't know why the Wizards would necessarily do that. 953 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:07,239 I know they need a point guard, but yeah, that's the thing. 954 01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,800 I don't know what the sign and trade market for Russell is, Like 955 01:03:12,599 --> 01:03:16,159 it's I don't know where I don't know what the market for Russell is. 956 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,440 I mean, I'm not trying to do There are not a lot of point 957 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,719 guards out there, so, like you do, he does have that working 958 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,400 in his favor. There's not a lot of available available free asent point guards 959 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,599 that are like if you take Irving out of the picture, which I think 960 01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:34,199 probably we should like it's kind of him, it's Van Vleet, it's then 961 01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:37,119 you're then you're into like I mean, I don't even I'm just want to 962 01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:40,599 look at it here so I don't forget somebody. I mean, Patrick Beverly 963 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,639 Territories gave Vincent and trade like after Kyrie and van Fleet, are those the 964 01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:49,159 next best point guards? Yeah? Can if so they go, they can 965 01:03:49,159 --> 01:03:51,639 go to the cap space route, but only if they signed Gabe Vincent for 966 01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:54,159 the I don't know, for ten million years I'm just curious to see what 967 01:03:54,239 --> 01:03:59,039 d'angelo's market will be because you go through the teams that have space. Houston 968 01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:01,280 is not going to go after Dan Russell. Utah's not gonna go after D'Angel 969 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:06,000 Russell, Indian is not gonna go after would you say it was the last 970 01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:11,079 one? Indian Detroit are not doing it. The Spurs probably aren't gonna do 971 01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:14,000 it. Even though I think we were doing an exercise, a quick exercise, 972 01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:16,199 and you said the Spurs would be a good fit for de Loo. 973 01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:23,440 I think I agreed too. We might season though pre Wemby as well too. 974 01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:26,760 Obviously, It's like I don't know where his offer is gonna come. 975 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,719 So maybe the sign and trade market actually might be your best bet, because 976 01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,079 would there be a team that's like, we're not going to send you a 977 01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:36,000 bunch, but like here is just like I don't know why would they help 978 01:04:36,039 --> 01:04:40,639 out each other? But like would the Celtics consider all we need D'Angel russell 979 01:04:40,679 --> 01:04:45,800 shot creation over having Marcus Smart or Derek White or Malcolm Brogden, Like, 980 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,559 is that even too much one of those players? Too much of a price 981 01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:53,000 to pay for him? Where are you so we I think we've had a 982 01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,239 little bit of a disagreement on Russell. I've kind of just been like the 983 01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:04,159 wind. I mean, Stephen Stoyche Delos a future Kwangzo Tiger. I mean 984 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:09,159 that's you know, him and Dylan Brooks and Jordan Pool. I guess according 985 01:05:09,159 --> 01:05:15,199 to the Twitter, I've always been a little lower on Pool on almost Freudian 986 01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:23,559 slips at Pool on Delo. Then where are you on him? Like how 987 01:05:23,719 --> 01:05:27,360 interested are you? It's not to just you know, your teams that need 988 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,199 point guards Washington, Orlando, I don't know, We've mentioned several others, 989 01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:36,480 the Spurs, Like are you comfortable with him as a starting point guard at 990 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,079 like a starting point guard guard salary? So let's say, I mean he 991 01:05:40,159 --> 01:05:43,599 made a lot this year, but let's say you have to pay him thirty 992 01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:49,159 million dollars, Like like, that's just not that's just not what you want, 993 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:55,039 especially like he's been an All Star. He can run a pick and 994 01:05:55,199 --> 01:05:59,199 roll, he's a clever shot creator. He had real moments in these playoffs, 995 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,320 you know, timely shooting, all this other stuff. But just like 996 01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:08,119 you know, the Lakers being worried about losing him bespeaks a little selfishness. 997 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,760 He doesn't defend, Like, I just I don't is he an asset in 998 01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,159 assigning trade, like is that it might be the only way the Lakers can 999 01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:18,400 really do something short of the cap space route, which is super risky. 1000 01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:23,840 I just I don't know how valuable he how coveted he is, even by 1001 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,760 teams that clearly need a point guard. I wondering what Brooklyn consider reuniting, 1002 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,719 and like maybe the number is just smaller that like, is it twenty million 1003 01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,920 dollars a year, I'm exponentially more comfortable. Yeah, with him at that 1004 01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:38,079 number, everything changes then, but he's still the same type of player where 1005 01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:41,000 it's like, I'm not sure he wants to come off the bench, where 1006 01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:44,880 as like this, this happens all the time if he were your six man 1007 01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:47,199 that like came off the bench and ran the offense against backups. At twenty 1008 01:06:47,239 --> 01:06:50,119 million a year, which is a little high for that role, like that's 1009 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,840 that's the optimal role. That like, that's what he could really excel at. 1010 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,280 I think, And I just it doesn't seem like he's interested in that, 1011 01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,360 which makes it much more complicate to define him a suitor. You know, 1012 01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:04,000 I do think what also makes this and by the way, there's a 1013 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:08,199 report I can't see where it came from that the Lakers are prepared to make 1014 01:07:08,239 --> 01:07:11,519 a trade offer for Trey Young. They can offer one first round pick and 1015 01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:17,639 salary. Yeah. Yeah, so, which is wild that people could I 1016 01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,679 don't understand the point of reporting this stuff when it's just so implausible. Yeah, 1017 01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,960 I just I don't get it. It's I think when you look at 1018 01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,639 it, you could say, okay, well you might as well just keep 1019 01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:30,320 these players and then you can try and futs and fiddle on the trade market. 1020 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,000 You can deal one first round pick because you gave the twenty twenty seven 1021 01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:38,760 one up. You can do one first round pick, and you could swaps 1022 01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,559 but one first round pick, and like, now, what is Molie Beasley's 1023 01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:45,400 value after he devolved into unplayable for you? And so I do think that's 1024 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,719 what makes it tough, is that it looked a lot better just bring everyone 1025 01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,480 back and you could make these moves on the margins is really movable on his 1026 01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,960 next deal? Is Austin Reeves movable on his next deal? I tend to 1027 01:07:57,079 --> 01:08:01,039 agree that with you that you have to kind of just run this back and 1028 01:08:02,079 --> 01:08:04,599 you can try and fux and fiddle from there. Or just hope that you're 1029 01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:08,000 better after having a whole season, Like maybe dans Of Russell is just a 1030 01:08:08,039 --> 01:08:11,599 better fit next year after going through a training camp. I just I think 1031 01:08:11,679 --> 01:08:15,520 that the flexibility route might hold more appeal because like, I don't know that 1032 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,239 you can hope to reach this apex again with this group, Like you just 1033 01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:23,239 made it to the conference finals. You got trucked, but you did make 1034 01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:26,920 it to the conference finals. I don't know if that door with this group 1035 01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:29,840 is going to be open again because they still need if you bring these guys 1036 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,600 back, and you're probably gonna lose Lonnie Walker the fourth this offseason, by 1037 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,760 the way, and he became fairly important to your rotation. You still need 1038 01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:40,359 shooting, you still need like wings. And now they're not a team that 1039 01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:43,000 I think needs to concern themselves about this, Like they'll have their mini mid 1040 01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:47,439 level exception if they bring everybody back unless they just pay everyone up the wazoo 1041 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:51,760 and their payroll brilli inflates, like who are you getting for the mini mid 1042 01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:56,279 level? Like do you even get a Josh Richardson for them? I don't 1043 01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,720 know. Couldn't they get into the bad contract business if you took Beasley and 1044 01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,119 Bombas salaries. Bamba's got a non guarantee for ten point three and Beasley's got 1045 01:09:04,159 --> 01:09:09,600 the team option for just under the sixteen five. You put those two together 1046 01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:14,479 with the pick, and you maybe it's even hard to find another sizeable salary 1047 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:15,960 that's gonna be on the books to trade. They really don't have one. 1048 01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:21,359 So you're talking like twenty seven ish million with a first round pick attached. 1049 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:26,199 Is there a bad contract out there you could or like a distressed asset type 1050 01:09:26,239 --> 01:09:28,319 of player you could get back? Well, I was gonna say, if 1051 01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,800 those are all expiring, do you can you go to the realm of just 1052 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,600 like if you offered that to Dallas, would they give you Tim Hardaway junior? 1053 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,119 Do you think he's enough of an upgrade over? That's the thing. 1054 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,680 If you could get up to like forty you know, if you had which 1055 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,239 is hard to do. Nobody has like forty million dollars and non guarantees and 1056 01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,079 whatever to cobble together with a pick attached, like you know, then you 1057 01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:51,439 oh, Tobias Harris, I don't know, the Sixers want cap relief like 1058 01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:57,640 Ben Simmons or there's like that kind of like really wild bad contract stuff. 1059 01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:00,439 But you know, under thirty million in with a first rounder attached, like 1060 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,640 Tim Bartoway might be about as good as you can do. So even that 1061 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:08,359 that routes like it doesn't do better than Tim Hardaway? How much better? 1062 01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:14,000 Like I'm trying to think like thirty four million dollars over the next two years, 1063 01:10:14,039 --> 01:10:15,239 Like that's a net negative contract. I don't even know if you need 1064 01:10:15,279 --> 01:10:18,840 to give up the first rounder in that instance, but like, does that 1065 01:10:19,039 --> 01:10:25,159 offer Let's let's do this. Does that offer get you Boyon Bogdanovitch and you 1066 01:10:25,199 --> 01:10:27,359 don't need to give up that much salary, So it would be like Malik 1067 01:10:27,399 --> 01:10:31,119 Beasley and the first for Boyon Bogdanovitch. And then if you're resigning Ruey and 1068 01:10:31,119 --> 01:10:33,000 you're the Lakers, do you even do that out? I mean, Boyan 1069 01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:35,359 just had such an incredible season that maybe you do, but I think you 1070 01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,399 do. I don't think Detroit. I mean I think Detroit. You know 1071 01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:43,079 what. So it's a twenty nine first, right, so like there's upside 1072 01:10:43,119 --> 01:10:46,079 to that pick, but is like that's so far out, Like I just 1073 01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:51,479 it's really hard to sell that. Like basically you're trading like a decent player. 1074 01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:55,600 That's why I keep thinking it's got to be just a bad contract and 1075 01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,359 you just hope that you're buying at the you know, absolute nadea of someone's 1076 01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:02,319 value. Here's I mean this kind of I don't know why you would keep 1077 01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:06,000 Russell then, but can you get to the money and they could in fury 1078 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:11,279 Chris Paul from Phoenix. Yeah, I mean that's like that's the type of 1079 01:11:11,319 --> 01:11:14,199 thing you'd have to do where it's like this could go real bad and we 1080 01:11:14,319 --> 01:11:16,239 just gave up our, you know, our I assume you'd have to use 1081 01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:20,680 the pick there because although like don't, I don't think Bomb has any value, 1082 01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,279 but Beasley might have some value in Phoenix. He's kind of like Terrence 1083 01:11:24,359 --> 01:11:27,000 Rossi and they played him a lot, so you know, I don't know, 1084 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,119 Yeah, I don't. I just don't know what the move for them 1085 01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:32,680 improving is. I think it's I'm with you that you have to kind of 1086 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,479 bring everyone back and then hopefully some of those deals age into tradeable assets and 1087 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:42,920 then you can maybe hit like home runs on the Mini mL E and your 1088 01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:45,640 your minimums like do better than getting at Troy Brown Junior here. But all 1089 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,439 that, I just I'm I'm kind of fascinated by what they do. They 1090 01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,039 don't I don't. My point being I don't think they have a big move 1091 01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:57,640 left in them. And look like this was a good team after they made 1092 01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,239 the trades and like, you know, so it's not so much like, 1093 01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:02,640 well, if they run it back, they're going to struggle in as the 1094 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:08,399 seventh seed and hope to avoid like I mean, injuries to Davis and Lebron 1095 01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,560 and load management and stuff that you price that in a little bit. But 1096 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,880 if you run it back with this team, I think your expectation should probably 1097 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,119 be like you're trying to get a top four seed, and it's not unrealistic 1098 01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:24,880 because they played that well when they had everybody you know available that was in 1099 01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,960 the rotation, you know, down the stretch of the season post trade deadline. 1100 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,720 So like it feels underwhelming and it's always like, well, this is 1101 01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,239 clearly won't be enough because they just got swept. They might have just got 1102 01:12:34,279 --> 01:12:40,119 swept by the eventual champion and their best players were worn down because they just 1103 01:12:40,199 --> 01:12:43,359 had to do too much, especially early in the season for what was then 1104 01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:46,279 a go nowhere team, Like there is upside actually if you just bring everyone 1105 01:12:46,359 --> 01:12:50,319 back, I mean, it'll cost a ton but you're the Lakers, and 1106 01:12:51,119 --> 01:12:55,920 like, this is Lebron. If you get Lebron back, like this might 1107 01:12:56,000 --> 01:13:00,600 be his last realistic shot. So I think I think it always feels underwhelming 1108 01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,119 to say just yeah, the same same group, but that's probably the way 1109 01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:08,039 to go. Is there any scenario where this ends with Lebron trying to angle 1110 01:13:08,119 --> 01:13:12,520 for his own exit via trade? I thought about that too, because I 1111 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:14,479 was like, oh, because I had forgotten, I thought, well, 1112 01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:15,840 maybe he's got a play, Like can he opt out this summer? No, 1113 01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:20,840 he cannot, That's that's next year. Like where where would he? 1114 01:13:21,079 --> 01:13:26,640 Like what you see he would if he were to do that. It's the 1115 01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:30,199 money's too big. You just he can't get anywhere that would be able to 1116 01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:35,279 acquire him without giving up so much that it would knock them down a peg. 1117 01:13:35,399 --> 01:13:38,960 And like the contender hierarchy, So then what would be the point, 1118 01:13:39,239 --> 01:13:42,720 you know, into Houston's cap space, into Houston's cap space. He's never 1119 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,920 played with James Harden Maybe yeah, No, I don't know how that how 1120 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,960 that would work to play, you know, because if he could opt out, 1121 01:13:49,039 --> 01:13:53,560 then it's like then it's very interesting, but it's just it's not that's 1122 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,720 not that's not how it's gonna work. Clay Thompson for Lebron is that is 1123 01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,840 that going to be on the table at all? He's loved Clay Thompson is 1124 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,239 all aways love the Lakers. The Lakers just watched him miss every shot he 1125 01:14:02,279 --> 01:14:04,640 took for a whole series too, though I'm not sure I interested they'd be 1126 01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,199 before we get out of here, Do you have any thoughts? I'm Carmelo 1127 01:14:09,239 --> 01:14:12,439 Anthony retiring, and I know that you have thoughts because you texted me something 1128 01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,279 that I thought was incredibly spicy, and I won't I won't air it out 1129 01:14:15,319 --> 01:14:19,000 here, but if you want the chance to say, I mean so in 1130 01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:21,640 a little bit of the Delo mold, I was always kind of lower on 1131 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:26,680 Carmelo than consensus, I guess, or maybe then, like I don't know 1132 01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:31,239 then most people, but to me, so my take is basically that like 1133 01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,199 he is a Hall of Famer, because that was what we were talking about. 1134 01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,840 But I think he's gonna go in as kind of like the last. 1135 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,079 There aren't gonna be a lot more Carmelo types. I don't think he'll be 1136 01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:45,039 kind of the last of his kind. And what I mean is just that 1137 01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,680 the book on him is basically that he was an absolute bucket. Like I 1138 01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:56,199 think the end of his career really overshadows like how difficult he was to guard 1139 01:14:56,319 --> 01:14:59,880 early when he was still really athletic and strong and could just you know, 1140 01:15:00,359 --> 01:15:02,000 he was he could get to the basket like crazy. He had the mid 1141 01:15:02,119 --> 01:15:05,479 range game, just all the one dribble stuff. He was super hard to 1142 01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:09,920 keep, you know, out of the lane, and was just incredibly skilled, 1143 01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:15,319 strong, like just great, great scorer, but not always the most 1144 01:15:15,359 --> 01:15:19,159 efficient and didn't bring it defensively and didn't probably make other players that much better, 1145 01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:24,279 but he got a massively high volume role, which just like that doesn't 1146 01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:28,119 happen anymore there, you know. I guess like it's not even fair to 1147 01:15:28,199 --> 01:15:31,359 compare him to like Derozen because de Rozan is like very efficient and Carmelo just 1148 01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,760 really wasn't part of that's an era thing, Like if he'd played his whole 1149 01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,760 career starting now, he would have shot like a zillion threes and probably been 1150 01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:43,840 a more efficient player like everybody. But yeah, I don't think. I 1151 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:48,520 think just teams getting smarter about like what good offenses are not going to empower 1152 01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:53,560 a player like him to play as large of a role as he got to 1153 01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:58,079 play for most of his career. So like I think, I think he 1154 01:15:59,079 --> 01:16:02,279 for his era was a great offensive player and should be honored as such and 1155 01:16:02,319 --> 01:16:05,079 get into the Hall of Fame and all that stuff. But like, I'm 1156 01:16:05,119 --> 01:16:09,520 not gonna there won't be more Carmelo Anthony's I don't think. I don't think 1157 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:15,479 the league has like the stomach for that type of offensive player going forward, 1158 01:16:15,159 --> 01:16:18,640 unless the rules change or something crazy happens. But that's kind of my take 1159 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:23,720 on it. Is, like he's an interesting data point in like the evolution 1160 01:16:24,079 --> 01:16:28,920 of NBA basketball over the last twenty years because he was just a different type 1161 01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:33,279 of player than we value today. I would agree. I'm just curious as 1162 01:16:33,359 --> 01:16:40,279 to like, would Carmelo Anthony even be like Carmelo Anthony if he came from 1163 01:16:40,279 --> 01:16:43,760 the NBA today where it's you know, we saw him. It happened later 1164 01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,520 than you would want it to, but like you already mentioned him shooting more 1165 01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:51,359 threes, him playing the four earlier would certainly have been on the table. 1166 01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:57,079 And then also I think Olympics mellow never really appeared in the NBA just because 1167 01:16:57,119 --> 01:17:00,840 it's so different. He was never gonna play with that many stars, But 1168 01:17:00,279 --> 01:17:03,479 like, would he have adapted his game more? Would teams have been quicker 1169 01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:09,640 to shoehorn him into the number two role rather than viewing him as the number 1170 01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,199 one? And so I guess I'm a little bit higher. I was probably 1171 01:17:12,199 --> 01:17:14,520 always a little bit higher on him. And shocker, I was a Knicks 1172 01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,880 fan. Is that really like just surprising that would have been higher on him 1173 01:17:17,279 --> 01:17:19,800 than you? But that's right. I always stot of landing on him. 1174 01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,039 I thought there was more of his game to tap into and that he was 1175 01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:28,600 just emboldened and enabled not to for so much of his career in that because 1176 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:30,800 of what we know now, he would have been forced to follow a different 1177 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,399 trajectory. Where does he make as many All NBA teams? I don't know. 1178 01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,960 I could certainly see it, I mean, like and not for nothing, 1179 01:17:38,039 --> 01:17:42,000 by the way, Like this is someone who's ninth in scoring rights. 1180 01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:45,960 That's a big deal. And I don't think he made six All NBA teams, 1181 01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,920 ten All Star teams. That doesn't happen by mistake. And there's you 1182 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:50,479 can quip over whether you think he's a top seventy five player of all time, 1183 01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:55,800 like he did make that list. I just think that Mellow could thrive 1184 01:17:56,159 --> 01:18:00,479 in today's NBA, maybe even possibly be a better version of himself, if 1185 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,800 only by force. I do would agree with you that the whole the way 1186 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:09,000 that he especially early on his offense, how that was generated, that's just 1187 01:18:09,119 --> 01:18:12,520 something we're not going to see, yeah, anymore, or at least I 1188 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,159 wouldn't. I wouldn't think no, I don't think so. I mean, 1189 01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:18,520 if you were gonna let anybody just like cook from the elbows and you know, 1190 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:23,159 shoot contested jumpers, he would he'd be on the very short list of 1191 01:18:23,239 --> 01:18:26,319 guys that you you know, the Derosians and stuff like that, where it's 1192 01:18:26,359 --> 01:18:28,720 like, yeah, he's just he's good at this, he can we this 1193 01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:31,000 is okay, it's a bad shot for most people, but he's you know, 1194 01:18:31,079 --> 01:18:33,920 he's so overwhelming at his peak that like you just deal with it. 1195 01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:38,840 And he does have like the you know what we would think of now is 1196 01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:43,279 kind of the ideal combo forward size, but the defense isn't there. I 1197 01:18:43,359 --> 01:18:46,560 think that's where that's that's part of like the last of his kind thing is 1198 01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:51,159 like if you have that frame and you're not a really good or at least 1199 01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:55,600 a capable defender, and maybe he would have been if he'd needed to be, 1200 01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:59,239 because it always like physically he had the tools to be a good defender 1201 01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:03,079 if he if he'd if that had been a priority, and maybe it would 1202 01:19:03,119 --> 01:19:05,640 have now because he just would would not get to play if he didn't, 1203 01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:10,880 you know, compete as much on that end. But that that's an interesting 1204 01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,960 aspect of it. Is like the demands of a player with his like frame 1205 01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,079 are just way different now than they used than they were, you know, 1206 01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:23,359 certainly for the first ten years of his career. I have this is a 1207 01:19:23,399 --> 01:19:25,880 final question for you. I think this is really a thinker. I'm gonna 1208 01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:27,960 throw it up on the screen for you so you could just digest it. 1209 01:19:30,279 --> 01:19:33,439 I saw it was tweeted by Sports Center. Which number fifteen goes into the 1210 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:39,720 rafters? Rafters Karmen Anthony or Yokich I mean should be both, but sorry, 1211 01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,399 Like, we just spent spent the first twenty minutes of this talking about 1212 01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:45,359 how Yogis is the best player of his era, So I don't I get 1213 01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:48,239 why stuff like that is. We actually had a conversation about this in discord. 1214 01:19:48,239 --> 01:19:51,039 That's why you should all join our discord very about the coverage of the 1215 01:19:51,119 --> 01:19:55,399 league and but just like I hate seeing I know why it's out there, 1216 01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,560 but I hate seeing the timing of it because all that serves to do is 1217 01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:02,720 diminish anthy'sac because you know it shouldn't be if if you had to choose between 1218 01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,239 one, No, it's not gonna be garmel Anthe because it should be and 1219 01:20:06,319 --> 01:20:11,119 will be. Nicole Yokich. Yeah, that's tough, tough, tough timing 1220 01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:15,279 on the on the tweet. So there's that, and then Lebron couldn't even 1221 01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:17,600 let Melo has his day. Melo retires and Lebron starts hinting at retirement. 1222 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,439 Yeah, I mean I'm not ready just to see that. I know Melo 1223 01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,760 wasn't in the league this year, but like that two thousand and three draft 1224 01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,520 class is not being I'm not ready. I'm not ready for it. That's 1225 01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,039 a tough one. Yeah, I mean, Darko Milicich was really young. 1226 01:20:29,079 --> 01:20:30,800 He could make it back, like he's probably still got some years in him. 1227 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:35,159 I don't know yours cross that happens. Yeah, someday you all right, 1228 01:20:35,239 --> 01:20:39,159 Well I'll take it out if you're ready. Everybody, thank you for 1229 01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,279 listening, Thanks for watching the stream. If you have not done so, 1230 01:20:43,359 --> 01:20:45,319 already. As Dan mentioned at the top, make sure you rate, review, 1231 01:20:45,359 --> 01:20:48,319 subscribe, you have US five stars anywhere you're listening to your podcast by 1232 01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:54,319 some merch, so you two can be thermonuclear af and fueled by caffeine. 1233 01:20:54,359 --> 01:20:57,800 No dip threes. You can apologize to Mitchell rob There's just like so many 1234 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,560 ways you can support the podcast all and as this is key size up. 1235 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:04,000 Dan said, if you're a medium, by all large. If you're a 1236 01:21:04,119 --> 01:21:08,399 large, buy an x L these are these are going to shrink on you 1237 01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:12,319 and they come a little small stickers and cups and all this other stuff. 1238 01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:15,359 Normal size don't need to buy a giant one grows. They will one large 1239 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,920 extra large mug. Please like a Yeah, I'd like a sixty four ounce 1240 01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:24,439 coffee. Do we have Hardwooknox goblets? We get a goblet? All that 1241 01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,600 would do it? We should look into that. Follow us on on our 1242 01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,760 socials, Twitter and TikTok at Hardwood Knox at Hardwood Underscore Knox on Instagram. 1243 01:21:32,399 --> 01:21:35,239 Uh and yeah, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell everybody you 1244 01:21:35,279 --> 01:21:41,199 know to build our subscriber base, and uh keep making it possible for you 1245 01:21:41,319 --> 01:21:45,439 to get sweet merch and incredible basketball takes and also bad ones and uh yeah, 1246 01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,840 so I don't know who to apologize to. I guess I'm gonna go 1247 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,880 back to the original and shout out Frank Nilakina and also apologize to the one 1248 01:21:51,920 --> 01:22:00,159 only Jared our No