WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:12.439 It's the Locked On Podcast Network, Your Team every Day. Hi, I'm 2 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.800 Jake from Locked On. What do the teams you root for, your music 3 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:19.920 playlist, and your podcast feeds all have in common? Spoiler alert, They're 4 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:23.719 reflection of you. And that's what the State Farm Personal Price Plan has in 5 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:27.600 common too. It gives you options to help personalize your coverage so that you 6 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:31.359 can protect what you care about most, and an affordable price just for you 7 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:35.159 so you can see more of yourself in everything you love. Like a good 8 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.880 neighbor. State Farm is there prices vary by state. Options selected by customer 9 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:44.280 availability and eligibility may vary. It's not. For our early off season conversation 10 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:48.479 series with Joe Gidburry. Today we're going to start with the big Bengals free 11 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:54.759 agent decisions. You are Locked On Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, 12 00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:15.959 part of the Locked On Podcast Network, Your Team every Day Bengals fans, 13 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:22.040 and welcome to another episode of the Locked On Bengals Podcast. I'm your host, 14 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:23.319 Jake, Let's go. He's your host. James R. Pember joined 15 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.879 today for the first of a multi episode series with Joe Gebbarry to talk about 16 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:34.920 a variety of Cincinnati Bengals off season targets topics starting today with T. Higgins 17 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:40.400 and some of the other big decisions to Bengals have to make about their approach 18 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:42.680 to free agency. Some of their own guys certainly part of that conversation. 19 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.719 Today's episode sponsored by LinkedIn, who helps you find the qualified candidates you want 20 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.239 to talk too faster? You can post your job for free at LinkedIn dot 21 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:57.239 com slash locked on NFL terms and conditions applying guys, Let's start the conversation 22 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.000 with T. Higgins. A question that is often at by Bengals fans over 23 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.040 the last two years is can the Bengals afford to pay T Higgins, Joe 24 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.120 Burrow and Jamar Chase. The answer to that question has always been yes. 25 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:14.919 The follow up question is should the Bengals pay T Higgins, Joe Burrow and 26 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.840 Jamar Chase long term? And Joe, you just did a whole episode of 27 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.759 Bengals on the Brain sponsored by First Star Logistics. You can find over on 28 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:27.400 YouTube about this, and that's why I'm framing the conversation initially this way. 29 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.840 There's so many different angles that you can discuss with this T Higgins decision. 30 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:36.080 What do you think The most important question is when discussing the future for the 31 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.240 Bengals and T Higgins, should they do it? You know, if you 32 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:43.719 framed it as can they and they can? Should they do it? Is 33 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.800 the big part of the conversation, and it pulls at both sides of you 34 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:51.039 that your heartstrings and then you're well, you know how much room is left 35 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.680 if you pay and spend thirty five to forty percent of your cap on three 36 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:58.759 players And they're three good players, and they're pillar players in this offense in 37 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.960 the run they just made the last few years. But yeah, you have 38 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:07.560 to wonder if that's the best way to allocate resources. And we've seen wide 39 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:12.719 receiver trades the last few years, the amount of return that these other teams 40 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.199 have gotten, the Bengals can get something similar that could be a huge boost 41 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:20.520 to this offense for the next few years. So you have to wonder, 42 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.759 are they getting value at T Higgins at twenty plus million, you know where 43 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:27.879 the cap number may be twenty one, twenty two or even an extension pass 44 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:32.400 that or would it be better for this team long term to use those resources 45 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:37.840 and reinvest. Yeah, it's it's such a delimit. It's the biggest offseason 46 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:42.960 question, and I think there's a couple of ways to look at. And 47 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.800 I do wonder just like four years ninety million get it done less than AJ 48 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.080 Brown, But I don't think he's AJ Brown, even though he's close. 49 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.280 So let's just use that example, and we'll just do three buckets shoe four 50 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:58.759 years ninety million extension for Tea, And I know the guaranteed money matters a 51 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:02.080 ton. Let's just use those numbers for now twenty one point seven million roughly 52 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:06.159 for the franchise tag, or and you keep him in play out the twenty 53 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:12.000 twenty four season with him on the roster, or franchise tag, trade him 54 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.759 to Let's just use Carolina as the example, because Bryce Young's throwing to me 55 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:21.040 right now and they need receivers. That's a shot at Adam Adam Feelin. 56 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:23.959 There we go. I couldn't think of his name, Sorry, Adam, 57 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.240 we're the same age. Or trade him to Carolina for the thirty third overall 58 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:30.519 pick, tag him, trade him, and now you have an extra pick 59 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.519 in this year's draft. Yeah, it feels like the best option would be 60 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:38.920 to facilitate that trade and figure out you know, the best value you can 61 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.199 get fort T. Higgins use that thirty third pick. And here's the other 62 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.079 part too, the Bengals will draft the receiver if that were the case, 63 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.480 Like you, what would the odds be if they lose to Higgins and Tyler 64 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.319 Boyd? If Vegas put numbers on the Bengals drafting a first round or second 65 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.439 round spending one of those first three picks on a wide receiver, it'd be 66 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.879 extremely high. So they would replace. And they've been a good and aggressive 67 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.839 rafting wide receiver team, so I would have confidence that they'd be able to 68 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:06.839 fill that role somewhat. But yes, I think the other hard part of 69 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:11.240 this is if you tag him and cannot trade him, or if the Bengals 70 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:14.560 overvalue him for what other teams like if they say, no, we want 71 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.800 a first round pick and we're gonna be sticklers about it, which that sounds 72 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.279 like the Bengals and the Panthers are like, hey, we've got the thirty 73 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.040 third pick. This is almost as good as you're going to get. And 74 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:25.279 they say no, we want to first we think he's worth this, YadA, 75 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.959 YadA, YadA, and they don't get it done, and it's a 76 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.360 situation where Higgins isn't there for camp, right, we just had this with 77 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.680 Jesse Bates and then he shows up, he's ready for week one and just 78 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:38.480 plugging him into this offense and he and Burrow aren't on the same page or 79 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:40.839 it's not ready to go, it's not ready to happen. It's as a 80 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:45.000 rough and rocky year for a guy you're paying twenty two million dollars to that 81 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.839 could hurt your offense in more ways. So and he seems like a good 82 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.160 dude where he's going to show up and he's going to do his thing when 83 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:54.279 he gets there, but there are still ramifications for doing that. So I 84 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.759 think it is a fine line with those two options. And then we talked 85 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.040 about, you know, just allocating that any resources. If that contract worked 86 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:08.120 for Tea in his side four years ninety million, does that work in saying 87 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.000 now we can't pay Kappa and Karris or Kapa and Kris type players when you 88 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.519 need two more starting offensive linemen. You already need a starting right tackle this 89 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.800 offseason. Go a year later now you need a maybe a left guard, 90 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.439 maybe you need a center, maybe you need another defensive tackle. Wherever the 91 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.439 positions are, you're going to now have less parts of the pie to give 92 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.079 out to those spots. I think a big part of the conversation as well 93 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.399 that we haven't mentioned yet that needs to be discussed as C Higgins has had 94 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.319 unfortunately durability issues. Every season there has been an injury. This caused him 95 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:41.680 to miss time his rookie year. He just didn't get under the field in 96 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:45.480 time. He played sixteen games that year. So rookie year, Okay Fine 97 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.439 did have the nagging hamstring that kind of was around in the off season process 98 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.199 for him, in the draft prep process for him. But in twenty twenty 99 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.279 one, according to Over the Cap, played about sixty five percent of the 100 00:06:56.279 --> 00:07:01.000 team's snaps. Twenty twenty two, played a career high sixty eight percent of 101 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:06.680 the Bengals offensive snaps, into twenty twenty three played fifty three percent of the 102 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.560 Bengals offensive snaps. So, say this is a player that when he's fully 103 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:15.480 healthy, is worth twenty eight million dollars a year, you don't discount to 104 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:20.240 sixty eight percent or fifty two percent or whatever, sixty three percent if you 105 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:25.720 take the average of what he's worth when he's healthy, Because if you look 106 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.240 at the over the Cap of valuation tool. When t Higgins is healthy and 107 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.319 having good weeks, they put those weeks on a yearly value of twenty two 108 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:38.600 to twenty five and a half million dollars. But then you miss a bunch 109 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.519 of time and you have weeks that are not that valuable, because that's the 110 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.639 nature of the NFL. Unless you're Justin Jefferson, they're down weeks. And 111 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.279 even Justin Jefferson had down weeks. So how do you figure out what that 112 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:54.279 number is if you're the Bengals, And even if you figure out what that 113 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:59.639 number is, decide if that's actually a good contract. That's what's really hard. 114 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.480 And there's a history of soft tissue injuries. And if your tea's side 115 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.480 or tea's agent, why would you agree to anything that maybe put in provisions 116 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:13.920 of per game active roster bonuses or anything to safeguard the Bengals in any way, 117 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.120 because you wouldn't have to worry about yeah, and you wouldn't have to 118 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:20.720 worry about that if you reach free agency, right like the Jaguars would throw 119 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.000 crazy money at you, the Jets, the Panthers, name the teams that 120 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.920 spend in free agency, they won't worry about that. They'll spend now and 121 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.720 figure it out later. Where the Bengals, rightfully, if they ask for 122 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:33.360 those things, it would make sense on our end to say, like, 123 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:35.840 hey, just in case you miss time, we should recoup some of this 124 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.840 money because it's a huge asset. It's a huge portion of the pie. 125 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.240 You'd be giving them both receivers because Jamar Chase will also likely be extended this 126 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:52.080 offseason. So Joe just from strictly an extension standpoint, given the durability, 127 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.120 given what team means, given the position, given how well the Bengals draft 128 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.480 there, would you try to extend him at the inevitable numbers that it would 129 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:05.480 take to sign him, or do you think tagging and trading is the best 130 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:07.320 route? Like, what what would you do if the Bengals call you tomorrow 131 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.799 and Duke Tobin says, we're going to follow your lead here. I would 132 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.519 suggest to tag and trade and find and get whatever resources and draft picks you 133 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.440 could possibly get out of it. If that is even a second and maybe 134 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:22.960 they throwing a fifth rounder from the Panthers, you know, thirty three and 135 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:28.240 then a fifth round or fine, whatever I can maximize out of it. 136 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.240 The hard part is I've always preached that when you draft these guys and you 137 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.519 develop them and they become everything you hoped they would be. And you would 138 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.440 say that about t Higgins. It's hard to let those guys walk, and 139 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:43.840 you shouldn't let those guys walk. These are good players. The Jesse Bates 140 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.840 a year ago, Kevin Zeitler, you know a handful of years that are 141 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.840 he's still playing and still very good. And it takes you years to replace 142 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.240 these guys because you miss a draft pick, or you think you John Miller 143 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.720 can play right guard, or you think Brandon Lafel can be the receiver that 144 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.639 to replace Mohammed Sanu and Marb Jones, like, it doesn't always work. 145 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:05.919 To replacement isn't always better than the option of just paying the guy, and 146 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.679 then you lift your head two years later and all that contract's not so bad 147 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.200 because ten other receivers have been paid afterwards, and I think it was twenty 148 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:18.360 seven receivers had one thousand yard seasons this past year, the most ever. 149 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.600 I mean, these guys are going to all get paid, but it also 150 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:26.840 means that it's probably easier to find a one thousand yard receiver than ever before. 151 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.679 They're coming out of college every year. We're like man, another crazy 152 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:35.639 good wide receiver class. The value there is probably as cheap as it's ever 153 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.840 been at the receiver position. You probably shouldn't pay a number. Two more 154 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:45.960 to talk about with the t Higgins decision and the various directions the Bengals could 155 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.480 go not only with the Higgins but with other free agents as well. We'll 156 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.519 continue those topics with Joe coming up next. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is 157 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.039 sponsored by LinkedIn Jobs. At the start of the new year, every small 158 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.279 business owners asking themselves the same question, what is the one move I can 159 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.480 make to take my business to the next level. In twenty twenty four, 160 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.240 you know the Bengals are asking the same question. 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You can check them out at twenty two h two Dixie Highway 186 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:52.240 and Fort Mitchell, just five minutes from the bridge into Kentucky, or just 187 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:58.720 go online at Schultzdiamonds dot com. That's sEH Ulz Diamonds dot com. We 188 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.960 know the Bengal strive for perfection and Shultz Strollers does too, because when it 189 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.799 has to be perfect, it has to be Schult Strollers. All right, 190 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.480 Joe, let's continue with the offseason discussion in the Bengals approach. We know 191 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:13.720 how you feel about T Higgins, but he's not the only guy. And 192 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.639 let's just stick with the offense now because Jonah Williams, a guy who a 193 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.759 lot of people went at the trade last offseason, stays healthy, plays every 194 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.360 snap is on the field the entire time at right tackle is set to be 195 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.360 one of the top, maybe the top offensive linemen. And free agency, 196 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.200 do you think the Bengals have a chance of retaining him, or do you 197 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.399 just assume that he's out the door. I am assuming he's out the door. 198 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.840 And if I found it negative about the prospects of keeping T Higgins, 199 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.039 I'm even less keen on the idea of extending or finding common ground with John 200 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.399 Williams. And I like John Williams, and I think he's been maybe wrongfully 201 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.679 hated on a little bit too much. He's a solid starting tackle and what 202 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.879 that means is he's going to get paid a big chunk of money in free 203 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.879 agency, and in fact, not worth it for the Bengals to even chase 204 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.600 it, because I think they need to elevate and raise the roof of this 205 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:07.840 offensive line. They need to get better there somehow. And really the only 206 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:13.039 answer there is you find a value free agent number one, and maybe that's 207 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.879 a guy like Jermaine and luminor or Trent Brown or Michael and when you can 208 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.799 play that position, or it's we spent a first or second round pick and 209 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.519 we strike gold and the guy's making four million dollars a year and he's a 210 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:28.240 good starting right tackle by year two, and now we've saved money and you 211 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.080 elevated the overall talent on the offensive line. I think keeping Jonah at sixteen 212 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.519 million dollars a year, if it even gets higher, is a negative value 213 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:43.279 overall because you're paying a premium for average, and I think the Bengals need 214 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.840 to avoid that as much as possible moving forward, because it's now you're in 215 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.360 a different time. When you pay Joe Burrow and the cap hits start coming, 216 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.360 you've got to maximize the value at the other fifty two roster spots as 217 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.919 much as possible. And yeah, you got to overpay for some guy. 218 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.039 You've got to overpay maybe a little bit for ORLANDA Brown, even though that 219 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.720 was a very favorable contract sixteenth highest cap hit for tackles. But then you're 220 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.240 going to overpay a little bit for Jamaar Chase first couple years. Those are 221 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.200 those are accepted. There is another chunk of this roster that you cannot afford 222 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:20.720 to overspend on. It's a value proposition. It's spending on average. Like 223 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.639 you said, it's something that we're going to talk about in this series, 224 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.679 not necessarily get into depth on today, but I like that you allude to 225 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.679 that point. There are a few things that have come up if you're paying 226 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:33.120 close attention that you're going to hear come up in some of the later topics 227 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.120 that we discussed. But I do think that that makes sense for Jonah Williams. 228 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:41.080 But at the same time you mentioned Jermaine Luminar. I don't think you 229 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.799 can get to a point in the draft where it's draft pick or bust. 230 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.360 You don't want to be in that situation ever. And as a position, 231 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.840 the Bengals have mostly avoided by trying to draft into the future. But when 232 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.679 they try to draft into the future, those guys they've drafted to be the 233 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.480 successor starters have almost never been ready to play at the level of the player 234 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.799 that we replacing. So that's another topic that perhaps we need to get through. 235 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.600 But when you look at the Bengals list of free agents, Joe the 236 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.679 Tyler boys should obi a Woozia's DJ Reider. Those are the other big name 237 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.799 guys, the guys that are playing huge roles for this team, the guys 238 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:26.039 that are starting level roles for this team. Do any of them look like 239 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.519 guys that you would prioritize bringing back. Yeah, I would have to be 240 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.519 Dj Reider, and given his age and injury, history as well. He's 241 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.480 played even less snaps than Tee Higgins over his four years. I think it 242 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:38.840 was at forty three percent of the defensive snaps. Number One, because he's 243 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.840 a nose tackle, he's not gonna be out there for one hundred percent of 244 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.440 snaps. Ever, maybe the cap for that position sixty five percent of the 245 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.960 snaps even if you were fully healthy. But still it means he has dealt 246 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.720 with injuries and can the Bengals afford to have a guy again that if he 247 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.559 gives you half the season at a premium pay and then misses the other half, 248 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:02.759 that's a negative value on the in your cap limits. So it makes 249 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.119 sense with his age also that the Bengals just may not be able to find 250 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.279 common ground unless he goes out there and there's nothing there for DJ Reader and 251 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.000 those same concerns are felt around the league. And he comes back and rehabs 252 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.759 and finishes what he started. Maybe it's a one or two year deal and 253 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:22.559 the Bengals get him out of value contract. Otherwise I see a Woozier and 254 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.279 Boyd as opportunities to upgrade, especially Boyd. I think this conversation probably applies 255 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.240 to him most. He's been a good player for the Bengals, a very 256 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.519 good slot receiver. He's done. He's been exactly what the pre draft scouting 257 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:37.519 reports said he would be. He was that and even more for his character 258 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.640 and leadership. But this team need to get faster. They need to get 259 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.359 more explosive, They need to get better after the catch, They need to 260 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.720 get more versatile. I think one of the issues that really they've struggled with 261 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:52.599 lately and maybe even has capped Jamar Chase's statistical production, is that Tyler Boyd 262 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.319 has to be in the slot to be good. And when you get him 263 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:57.839 out of there, and maybe you can move Chase more into the slot, 264 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.640 maybe you can get Charlie Jones a bit more speed, Maybe you can mix 265 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.440 things up just a little bit more with and we saw it the last few 266 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:08.279 weeks when they started rotating Charlie Jones in more speed slot options, just in 267 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:12.480 his routes with the jet motions pre snap. You saw how differently the vision 268 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.640 is with a guy that's just a little bit faster. Again, not trying 269 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.920 to knock Tyler, but the opportunity to get different and the opportunity to get 270 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:26.200 better because you're different, more versatile, is there at that position and desperately. 271 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.000 I'm very excited to see how the Bengals attack that if they do it 272 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.359 all, even if it's just Charlie Jones, fine, but I think there 273 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.279 is room there for say, like, Okay, this tight end can do 274 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.200 this, this running back can go and split out wide. You can get 275 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.960 another outside receiver and move Chase inside it. If there's a lot of options, 276 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.920 a lot of meat on the bone there, we definitely have to discuss 277 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:49.880 running back coming up. You mentioned DJ Reader, and I think one it's 278 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:55.480 DJ Reader, but it's that entire room that's up. Josh Tupo's a free 279 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.480 agent. J two Fela is not a big part of it, but certainly 280 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.480 one that's scheduled to hit free agency as well. Do you think it's gonna 281 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.599 be bj Hill and a bunch of new faces essentially outside of Zach Carter, 282 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.160 who's obviously going into year three and can we punt Zach Zach Carter to the 283 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.480 moon also, like I don't want to see him playing anymore, I'll be 284 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.960 honest. Is that that if you Brad Robins, Brad Robbinson shanking, let 285 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.319 Brad Robbins punt Zach Carter This might be your best offseason content right here. 286 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:27.400 Who can we punt off the roster? No, one doesn't have the leg. 287 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.839 By the way, A small correction, we got this wrong. I 288 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.319 got this wrong the other day. J. T. Felly is actually under 289 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.599 contract for twenty twenty four. Wow. Great, Well that doesn't mean he's 290 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.240 going to be on the roster, right just I got that wrong the other 291 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.119 day too, So he should be. He should be on the man. 292 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.079 Will he make the roster as we discuss camp, Yes, I think it's 293 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.359 fair to say so. They need a nose tackle and if it's not Reader, 294 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:55.599 they definitely need one. And then they still even when Reader was there 295 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:57.039 throughout the year, it's like they don't have an interior pass rusher. They 296 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.200 don't have a penetrator at three tech, a guy that can really cause havoc 297 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.039 and make plays behind the line of scrimmage. I looked at tackles for a 298 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.640 loss for the Bengals this year, all time low for them in the last 299 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.400 ten years, Like obviously from Geno Atkins when he used to get fifteen tackles 300 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:12.279 for a loss, it was amazing. But then Larry Ogunjobi, I want 301 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:17.480 to say at eleven and I think this year their defensive tackle room had less 302 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:19.519 than ten total. I think it was at nine. So they're not penetrating, 303 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.400 they're not getting back there. You're not getting those you know. Negative 304 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:27.359 two, negative three are runs that I think really helped we see penalties and 305 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:33.200 secks what they do on first and second down to create advantageous third downs. 306 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.000 Bengals didn't have a lot of those this year because they are a poor against 307 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.960 the run, but because also they weren't getting a lot of tackles for a 308 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.559 loss. So I think not just a nose tackle, but ad tackle as 309 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.000 well. You can need two guys in this room. You can make an 310 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.680 argument that three guys should probably be added to this and maybe that's a solid 311 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.160 B level free agent D tackle eventually a first round D tackle, second round, 312 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.079 third round D tackle, and then maybe a vet value guy later. 313 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:03.279 The Bengals haven't drafted a defensive tackle in the first round since nineteen ninety four. 314 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.160 For those wondering, both of you guys were older than me. I 315 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:07.640 was just three then. So we'll see if they do that. But I 316 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.119 mentioned running back. Let's discuss running back coming up next. Today's show is 317 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:17.400 brought to you by Fandel right now. 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I think that it's not necessarily a free agent conversation, 348 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.200 but we can talk running back in terms of how it fits into priorities, 349 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.319 and in that sense, it is a free agent conversation, but not an 350 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.400 internal free agent conversation, which is where we can Oh it is we have 351 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.200 been talking internal free agents. You want to talk about Trevion Williams. No, 352 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.440 let's talk about Joe Mixon. Do three million dollars on March sixteenth? 353 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.559 Joe, Yeah, would not free game or not. But it's the same 354 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.279 thing though it's a decision, yeah, Jener. I don't think it is 355 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:59.359 a decision when the it's when the restructure happened from the source that at that 356 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.880 time it was first related to me that this will be a one year, 357 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.079 this will be his last year in Cincinnati, and then the information came out 358 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:08.000 that is actually two. And then when you look at it, like oh, 359 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.960 because they can save a decent chunk in twenty twenty four and he's got 360 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.880 that roster bonus. I think that person was reading the tea leaves and was 361 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.000 saying like, yeah, he'll never see that March third bonus whenever that is. 362 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.000 So, I have been projecting that they're going to release Joe Mixon. 363 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.559 I know that gets the comments going every time. You know people, he 364 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.440 had a productive season for what he was given in the situation, and I 365 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.119 would hope most guys that get three hundred touches can pull in that amun the 366 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.240 yardage. So it's not again, I don't want to knock the guy too 367 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.359 bad because he stayed healthy, he didn't fumble the ball. Those are great 368 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.000 qualities to have. But I do think, like Tyler Boyd, the Bengals 369 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.480 are going to look at this opportunity to become more versatile, become deeper, 370 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.640 and they have maybe some more explosive plays at that position, and I think 371 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:53.359 that includes free agency and potentially the draft as well. The interesting thing with 372 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:57.559 Mixon is that from a cap perspective, it's more of a cap issue than 373 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:03.279 a cast issue for me. And this is the scenario that I've talked about 374 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:04.720 on this podcast before. The front office could look at it and say, 375 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.880 you know what, we only have to pay in five million dollars five and 376 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.079 a half million dollars cash this year, but it's an eight and a half 377 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.119 million dollar capit, So I think if I think that could be a true 378 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.160 cap casualty kind of decision for mixing off his cap number was the same as 379 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.160 his cash number this year, five and a half million, whatever it is. 380 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.920 I think the Bengals will be totally fine with that, seeing what they 381 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:30.279 saw from Chase Brown later in the year, seeing Joe Mixon's increase efficiency when 382 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.359 they were splitting carries a little bit more. But one thing you and I 383 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.240 have talked about, Joe, one thing that we've talked about, you know, 384 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.359 over the last couple of years, is trying to find a back somebody 385 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:47.960 that I kept talking about in yesterday's episode, that can block, that can 386 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.119 catch, that has a little bit of explosion to his game. I keep 387 00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:56.640 coming back to Mantonio Gibson for free agency. This class is a top heavy 388 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.880 free agent class. Hard to convince yourself that the Bengals are going to go 389 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.359 bend on a top level free agent running back. And it's a bad draft 390 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.680 class and the depth of running back. There's some guys out there, but 391 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.720 none of them really check all three of those boxes. That's why I always 392 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.039 end up coming back to samashefre Ryan too, because even though there's not explosion 393 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.400 there, at least he can do those things and it's not a tip like 394 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.960 Trayvon Williams is a tip that the Bengals are passing the ball and Travion Williams 395 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.480 is on the field. At least you get a guy baseline that can do 396 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.279 all three things and isn't tipping your hand. But what are you looking for 397 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.960 or are there realistic targets? I guess this offseason that you think could do 398 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.720 those things when your only other guy if they do move on from Joe Mixon, 399 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.200 is Chase Brown, who you saw a handful of carries from late in 400 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.880 the year. Yeah, and I think they walked into this season with a 401 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.880 very poor depth chart at running back. You know, Travon Williams, he 402 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.599 probably wouldn't be on another roster, right, maybe as a fourth guy somewhere 403 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.279 else, but the Bengals at times we're using him as a number two because 404 00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.000 they had no other options. Chris Evans gets the first carry of the season 405 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.000 and we never see him again. That was it for him, you know. 406 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:04.640 So it's like it's it's such a bad situation. We talked about defensive 407 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.880 tackle could be three new guys. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire depth 408 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.839 chart other than Chase Brown was completely different at running back, and I think 409 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:18.920 that largely comes from having the opportunity to get value at that position, where 410 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.519 if it's a last year Devin Signaltary, we talked about him plenty of times, 411 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.160 like as a guy that could just do it all. Yeah, he's 412 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.039 not a four to three, not a four to four to six y five 413 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:30.960 guy, but he still made guys miss and you didn't have to take him 414 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.000 off the field in certain situations. Having more guys like that on this roster 415 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.319 where I don't have to give mixing three hundred carries or touches would be ideal. 416 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.480 I'm excited for the opportunity for a running back by committee. If that's 417 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.720 an AJ Brown paired with Chase Brown, or Antonio Gibson paired with Chase Brown 418 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:53.599 and a fourth round pick, or a Clyde Edwards Hilaire and a third round 419 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.720 pick and Chase Brown, like three guys say, Hey, they're all different 420 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.319 skill sets, they all do different things differently, and we're just gonna mix 421 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.319 them around and go with it, Like, let's stop pigeonholing these guys into 422 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:08.640 one spot and saying, Travon Williams past protext, Joe Mixon's runs and Chase 423 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.680 Brown catches screens like stop that. Let's just get three guys that can play 424 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:17.240 and use them. You can't have guys that are so one dimensional, you 425 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.160 said, AJ Brown. Just want to make sure you meant AJ Dillon. 426 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.319 I believe I did. Yeah, let's what AJ Brown at running back? 427 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.799 Though he's very disgruntled right now, but yes, AJ Dillon, I mean 428 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.440 AJ Brown. You heard it here first, quickly before we get out of 429 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:36.160 here, tight end. Obviously there's nobody in that room that is free agency. 430 00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:40.960 They're all free agents to be Uh, yeah they are. So what 431 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.400 do you do? Who do you bring back of the current guys? And 432 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:48.680 why is at R Smith Junior? Yeah he will go. He'll find it 433 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.480 out somewhere. But you caught me up guard with that one. Tanner Hudson 434 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:53.720 and Drew Sample Sure, I'm ringing both them back, and neither should be 435 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:59.799 overly expensive. I think, Uh, there's two guys with concrete roles that 436 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.640 don't intertwine or intersect at all, So you gotta have to be careful with 437 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:06.839 who you add to that room. They still need a tight end one. 438 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:11.480 I think Hudson did his thing and overshot expectations despite what we saw in the 439 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.119 summer and said, hey, this guy is probably the best receiving tight end 440 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:18.480 he was that It took them six weeks to figure that out. But yeah, 441 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:21.279 I do think they need a tight end still. They have a lot 442 00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:25.319 of options to go there. And it's supposedly a week tight end draft class. 443 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.160 So do you attack it in free agency and not wait until the draft 444 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.599 so that you can be bypassed by all these other teams taking tight ends? 445 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.680 Again, I think they get a little more aggressive this year in free agency 446 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.559 and go for it and fill it that way. One of the topics to 447 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.440 discuss, and obviously we're not very deep into this draft class yet, but 448 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.200 if you listen to our episode with Mike Runner last Friday or Thursday, the 449 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:51.519 just from him and he's got an article actually on the Messenger ranking the positions 450 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.799 in the draft class tight end running back bottom not good and so one of 451 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.000 the things that we have to talk about when we talk about is this an 452 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:06.400 opportunity for the Bengals to change their personnel philosophy or how should they allocate their 453 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:08.079 resources, which is what we're going to do in tomorrow's episode. One of 454 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.240 the factors there is where are the strengths and weaknesses in this draft class and 455 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:17.400 free agency class because also kind of thin its height end in free agency, 456 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.960 and how does that push the Bengals approach this off season. Like I said, 457 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.920 we'll get to some of those conversations with Joe coming up in tomorrow's episode, 458 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.880 So make sure you come back for the next couple where we're talking more 459 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:34.720 off season topics with Joe Gibbray here on the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Until then, 460 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.359 thanks for listening who day and having a one