Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. We're coming to you live from green Room on this Sunday. We're only thirteen minutes late this week as opposed to sixteen minutes late last week, so we're improving, which I guess that's that's a good way to start, right Dan. Yeah, Look, this time and we weren't. It wasn't because of research that held us up like last time. It was we were talking about real life shit. So we need to apparently log on earlier, it seems, because we're a bunch of We're a bunch of chatty Kevin's at this point. Oh, you know sometimes every once in a while. How are you doing, though, I'm good. I'm good. It's it's been a fun weekend. I had some family in town and I'm excited to do this mailback. How about you? We have some questions with meilback. I'm excited too. I am I'm not too shabby over here. I'm very tired at the moment, but I'm doing well. I am getting frustrated with my leg training at the gym. If anybody cares, if we have any people who follow us from like the sector of the gym World and wants to send me tips on how to grow my chicken sticks. Please please do, but don't tell me to eat more because that's what everyone tells me and I've done it. It hasn't worked. So if anyone does any like training tips so that I can get quads and calves that look like Adam's tree trunks, please by all means. At Dampa Valley at avalle on Twitter, I've got some advice for you. Stop skipping leg day, like you're just so focused on glamour muscles. Always have them? Yeah, you know me miss their arms and chest? Is that the other glamour muscle? What are these glammer muscles? I think anything that's like truly visible, right, so just arms? What else is visible? Like? Yeah, well, how's your chest? The rain obviously the most muscle not in this America? Fair? Fair? Are you ready getting too this mail bag? Though? I think after that introduction, I have to be the good Let's look, we're gonna cannonball right in. Let's get this question from Adam frommel at zero nine. This is dangerous. What type of information do you take away from summer league play? Knowing how misleading it can sometimes be. I guess I'll answer the question because I'm posing it to the first, but so I don't take away anything to the point of this, you know, will this skill translate or Kaig Cunningham is going to be this incredibly above average defender right away. I'm more so look at guys that I think are worth Oh, I think they should be in their rotation, maybe if they play for a good team like a you know, like a Jail and Smith in Phoenix, where it looks like the shooting stroke is translating. He has a pump and drive game, and I think you can look at it and say, oh, that's sort of worth testing out with the top rookies. I'm just looking to sort of see, like, you know, is it Are they as advertised because I'm not following those guys as closely as a lot of other people are during the year, and I think, by the way, this year's like top of the class. They are all basically as advertised. But I don't view Summer League as predictive in any way. I think it's more I don't even know if you could say informative or instructive. It's more sort of like this one long protracted giant flyer of maybe there's something revelatory there or at least give you a basis to experiment or try out certain things and certain players. But I don't know how you can reach it. I mean, look at who's the best summer league player, like ever, Like is it like a Wayne Selden, Like it's a Josh Selby, And look at what that Joe was special? And I look even look at how some of the top picks have sort of fared in the past, like they haven't had the best summer leagues when they actually choose to play. I will say I'm almost concerned that so many of the top picks I thought did so many good things, like Evan Mobley's playmaking, and I think there are things like that can you envision their role on the bigger team. And Mobley's a great example because he's won not gonna have control over the ball that much in Cleveland playing next to Darius Garland, Ricky Rubio, Callin Sexton. He's also not gonna be in that position because of Jared Allen a good amount of the time. And so it's like what aspects of his game might be able to translate. And I also think that's it's probably harder, and this might be a good point to throw it to you. I don't know if you agree. It might be harder to envision how role players or complimentary prospects, more so than a Sugs or Jaen Greener King Cuttingham guys. You know we're going to have the ball, it might be harder to envision how the lesser guys, the more accessory guys are going to fare in the NBA because a lot of them are given so much control over the ball in summer league, and if you're a guard, you just you have control over the ball, and if you're big, you don't touch it, so it's like even it might be unless you have a mobile apparently, So like there's just a lot of that stuff. I feel like almost obscures your ability to make valid assessments. I definitely agree, And the reason I pose this question is because I'm glad you let off with it, because I think it's such an important caveat to any summer league discussions where it's really hard to have any long lasting takeaways because the forum that we're analyzing it is just so ridiculously different from regular season play, much less postseason play. And you know history is littered with examples you already mentioned, Josh Selby of guys who have seen to break out in the summer league setting, only for that to evaporate as soon as the minutes actually start to count. I tend to look at it more where I don't care as much about the good performances. It's nice to see some skill developments. It's nice to see some guys who you can reasonably anticipate working their way into back into the back end of their team's rotation. I think those are important pieces, but it's hard to know, like which summer league stars are truly breaking out versus capitalizing on a setting that allows for more open shots, that has less communication and is more comparable to like that pickup game setting, or like the bubble setting that we saw two seasons back. Now, I do think that you can glean a little bit more information from bad performances, where if a guy is struggling to separate and create open shots with the ball in his hands against summer league competition, you might reasonably be able to assume that that could be tricky when you're actually playing against NBA caliber defenders. But even then that isn't always true. We saw Trey Young in his first Summer League couldn't get past anyone, couldn't create open shots, shot roughly negative seventeen percent from the field, and obviously look at him now. So they are always going to be players who don't fit into that theory. But I do think in general it's there's a higher translation rate from the guys who stand out negatively than the guys who stand out positively. I don't know if he saw, but Emmanuel in the chat sent the gift of Leangelo ball in it, who had a pretty good had some pretty good moments in Summer League. That one shot where he had I think point six seconds on the clock and drilled that almost half court three. Obviously that means that he's going to challenge and Steph Curry for the role of best shooter in the league. So I think I do agree with you to some extent, but I don't always read as much into bed performance because I throw a lot of the stats out the window when I'm watching Summer League. So like I'm trying, like Franz Wagner this year was terrible shot like as of his fourth game was like shooting eight point three percent from three. But I'm watching him shoot, and all the shots you're like hitting the front of the rim or the back of the front of the rim and sort of like falling off, and so I'm like, oh, those will eventually fall. And then I'm seeing him like kind of fill the gaps a little bit better when he's putting the ball on the floor, Like, yeah, he means too much on his right hand still, but he's a little bit less predictable than I thought he was because he's trying out some spins. He showed some moxie when he was like coming from the bassline, the strong side bassline. So I do agree with you to some extent where maybe if you're looking at a top if there are four, maybe you look at it as the Superstar prospects. This was a four player supposedly Superstar draft. You're looking at all four of them, and you're seeing guys who are struggling like a I'll use jail and sucks an example. I'm wondering, is his game gonna stall out before the rim a bunch against more physical defenses. I do agree with you there for guys that are probably lesser known or lesser defined prospects coming in, I'm willing to throw so much of their game and some realague out the window. And the other thing, and you kind of alluded to this is these guys are coming with minimal practice time the teammates around them. Many of them are being thrust into roles that they're not even going to have at the start of the NBA level, and we're seeing them before they've had time to also work on their bodies, like in an NBA capacity, they've been with their team for a minute. I am curious. I don't think it happened this much with the I'm trying to think back. This season feels like a blurn now. I'm just like the off season's going to be shorter for them, and it was even shorter for the rookie classes past year. Technically, just being with an NBA team, they at least have more limited access to facilities and stuff. Whether that's going to impact like the conditioning or the stamina or just the overall performance of They'll love the same amount of teams like training camp is basically back on schedule, But I am curious to see, like if the shorter off season overall doesn't give them as much time to work in their bodies, but by don't looking back, I don't know if I like that was a thing with any of the rookies. It didn't really seem to be. They also did have like eight years off though. Is the other thing because of college basketball. It's tough to figure all that out, but I think in general, you tend to see more fouls, more turnovers in summer league play because players don't know their rotations yet. They are trying to force things to teammates who they don't have that mental connection with. They haven't established the play calls and everything, so it just it lends itself to that every single year. But ultimately, I think the worst thing that you can do is box score research from summer leagues, because when I say that, I think bad results are more translatable. It doesn't mean go and look at the guy who shot the worst from the field and assume that they played poorly. It means watch the games, watch clips of the games, and figure out like if a guy is trying to add something to his arsenal and is struggling to make it happen, that's different than a player who just doesn't look like he has any idea where he's supposed to be on the court who struggles to create separation with more basic moves out of the pick and roll game. There's a difference between a player experimenting and seeing what works and just struggling in general, and you're not going to be able to glean that information without actually watching it. Eli agrees with you one in the chat, and I agree with you as you were expounding on it, and he said he has I think it's an important informative tool, and so box score, which I says, do not box score watch, which I totally agree with. Otherwise, again, I think bron Zadner would have been a good example of UC eight point three percent from three, which is it's still terrible by the way, because he was missing. They're all wide open, so it's like, dude, dude, like you gotta do something about that. But if they're close, that's something to look towards. You have one more like sort of ken gently related question with the draft from Miel slav Shook, whose podcast I was actually on a couple of weeks ago, and he wants you to come on, Adam, but your dms are not open, so check your mentions because I'm sure he's added you at some point. Who do you predict will be the biggest steal among non lottery guys drafted this year. I think that my first instinct is probably Charles Bassi, who went to the Philadelphia seventy sixers with the number fifty three pick. A great shot blocker, a great lob target. He can score out of the post. He's been expanding his range out to the three point line. He was a guy who I had pegged as the most likely steal heading into the draft and him falling that far and going to the seventy sixers, who could use a piece like that to just add a little bit more spacing, to have that defensive presence in the second unit behind Joel Embiid or maybe even the third unit during his rookie season. He used my natural pick here. I've also been very impressed by Sharif Cooper. That might read as bias given the Hawks fandom, but he seemed like a steel regardless once he had fallen out of the out of the top twenty, much less out of the first round. Just a brilliant passer, a guy who can create a lot of looks for himself and score at the drop of a hat. Not necessarily a defensive stopper, but he very well could give that legitimacy to Atlanta's point guard rotation behind Trey Young. So those are the two names that immediately spring to mind. You know, obviously there are going to be plenty more out there, but those are the two I have to pick. I have a bunch and maybe this just proves I watched too much Summer League, but one of these guys, Uzman Gruba, was not part of that equation. I think he dropped to twenty three because people weren't sure if they were going to be able to get him to broker his buyout and to get him to come over this year, and the Pets did. And that dude should be a defensive monster from the tape that I've seen on him and based off what coach Spins told me about him, So I think he could the Rockets. I really liked their draft, I also think, and he's had a rock solid Summer League. I've not watched him as much as I wanted to. Nashan Highland bones, Highland busy bones, whatever you want to call him. And by the way, so Eli added two people in the chats. He really liked the Hawks draft Jalon Johnson specifically, that was a lot of prospects that seems like teams were scared up. And when you're the Hawks and the infrastructures there, hell yeah, agree with you. He also said Jared Butler, who was one of mine, and if he's healthy, if that heart issue isn't like a thing, I'm in total agreement. He seems like a smaller three and D type guy who can also create his own shot a little bit, and that could be a huge just down the line for the Jazz, just having someone like that who's also really cheap relative to the rest of their roster. But bones Highland dude, such a nifty finisher, contortionists around the rim. I really think that the jump shot is going to translate to get, you know, the release. When he's taking those really long step back ones, it can be a little slow. I think he's gonna be fine, and I really hope he gets and he probably won't because it's Michael Malone in Denver and the Nuggets are a really good team. They are missing Jamal Murray for at least a beat, though, I'm hoping he just gets a shot or I'm hoping there's a bunch of garbage time in Dever Nuggets games, or I hope he just lights it up in the Deep League so much that they decide, you know, that he needs to play. But I think he is someone who could partially be a steal. I'll throw Cam Thomas in there too, who for some reason really quickly, Adam, why do I want to call him cam Stewart every single time I go to say his name, I have no idea. I genuinely do not have any clue there. Here's the problem. I have said that on like radio interviews, so like cam Stewart knock and I'll come off and me like, you're you're a fucking idiot. So but anyway, and oh, by the way, with Bones Thailand, I mentioned the G League thing because the Nuggets finally have a G League affiliate. I know that's a novel concept, Phoenix Suns, who sold your G League team? But maybe start that up. Two others that I would be looking at is I was surprised that Audasumu fell to the Bulls. I don't know if he'll get playing time right away. They still don't kind of mention him next Yeah, they do still kind of need wings, and I know teams were concerned that defenses could go under him, and he's a little hesitant to shoot the three. But if he can just up his volume and be more aggressive there, he really could be one of those like more game changing perimeter team and individual defenders. So those and we already mentioned Jared Butler, so I won't go to him, but I will say Miles McBride, Douce McBride whenever you're calling him. He really impressed me in some league with the physicality of his defense. And he also the three ball fell really at a high clips, so we'll see if that continues. You mentioned Seeve Cooper, who was also on my list to say, by the way, if he if he shoots the ball like he didn't, if he even comes close to like league average from three over the next two years, he instantly is the steal of the draft because I'm not I'm not in love with his size, but his like orchestration out of the pick and roll versus on transcendent. Kudos to the Hawks, So I liked their draft, but de stun move Deuce McBride, Cam Thomas, who I think you had me thinking. I fucked it up, But yeah, I'm most excited of all those. I don't know if he's gonna be the Steel, but I'm most intrigued by Bowen's Island of that entire gaggle that I mentioned, I just I loved this draft class so much, from top to bottom. I just think that there is one potential steal after another, even beyond the guys that were already mentioning. I mean, he went off the board at number sixteen, but alpron Schemgun could be a gigantic steel even at number sixteen. Isaiah Todd, Jason Preston, Miles McBride, who you mentioned, JT. Thor. The list just goes on and on. Here, Luka Garza at number fifty two, who has serious shot making skill and just doubled it in college. Yeah, you can move better than I thought. Absolutely, Scotty Lewis down at number fifty six. There are so many options in this class. It's I think it's the most excited I've been about a first year class in a decade. Eli mentions in the chat cam is really promising. Good pick there, Dan. I'm always here for compliments of thank you so much. Eli. He's a question So let's move on to this question. Can Bobo be a contributor in the league. He's talented, who can he guard? Bobo had some really moments in some league where he was incandescent and just absolutely swallowed the defense. And so I'll throw that to you first at him. Do you think he can be a contributor in the league. I have trouble seeing him being much more than a novelty off the bench. Like, the talent is clearly there, but we still have no indication of how well the frame is going to hold up against NBA bodies for substantial periods of time during a game. The defensive concerns are significant. As great is his potential maybe as a shot blocker, can he hold up physically on the interior, because if he can't there, where are you going to play him? The shot is intriguing, it's virtually unblockable. We're seeing in Summer League that much like the Joel Embiid pump fake, that players are going to try to contest that even if it doesn't make any sense to So there's clearly some talent there where he could make an impact in ten minutes off the bench or so, I just have trouble seeing how it's scalable, which is unfortunate because I was all over him as a top prospect back when he was in college. As as Eli just said, if only ball ball was four to five inches shorter. Weird that we're saying that, but it's totally right. He's just about forty to fifty paths heavy here. That would work too, just this body type. It's it's the NBA is so physical, you know. I know, we get the jokes about how it's not as physical as the eighties and the early nineties, and it's not. It's not, as you know, as violently flagrantly physical, but the grind of the NBA schedule, the skill and size of every player in the league who can operate with the ball in their hands, it's just it's hard to believe that that frame is translatable. I think here's my suggestion for them, And I'm curious what everyone who's listening, and you think, Adam, you already kind of mention this, he's a two or three who has the size of like a six, because he's not even a five at this point. Right. You have Aaron Gordon, you have Jeff Green, you have Jamichael Green, play all those three with bow bowl, and you can kind of experiment with him wherever the hell you want, and maybe you're able to stash him. It won't work against every team because some teams you can't stash guys on. But Aaron Gordon can guard almost every position. You have Jeff Green and Jamichael Green who can both guard fours and fives, and I don't think Bobo matches up with really any four or five at this point. All that well, it depends on who's at the four. Most likely that might be something for them to see, can we get because he's a guard, he's a wing, like that's what he is, right, Maybe you could try him in that capacity. I guess. It's just it's so hard to see how that's gonna work. I mean to say that he's you cut me off too early. It's so hard to see how that's gonna work in big minutes because ultimately, like, yeah, we can find a half dozen ways of unleashing him in five to ten minutes per game. It's how you actually get beyond that to the point that he's a legitimate consistent member of the rotation. That's where I struggle to find an answer and also like you would have to have if Jamal Murray's not healthy, Michael Porter Junior needs to be put at point guard in that lineup because you just need someone else to degenerate off it. Look, that's a huge lineup though. All I'm saying the Greens, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Junior, ballball. You can see what happens. Why not that I'm trying to tell you how to do your job, But I am trying to tell you how to do your job. And I think we had one question about positions that would be a fun segue from here. That was one that I didn't really highlight because they wanted stats on the positions itself. So let me look that. There was some questions in the chat though between Eli and Leon talking about how they love Atlanta's roster and that they're sort of built for a trade and the Hawks are fascinating in that regard because they had a great off season by virtue of doing very little. Keeping John's Collins is huge. Getting Jang when you know in Yeka kong Wu was injured is a big deal. I really liked the lawn right for them, so and so I think you know, they maintained without doing anything like huge, and then I don't know that Miami was the only team in the East that dramatically improved, and they're not. If you even think they're better than the Hawks. They don't look world better however, and the Hawks are getting by virtue of internal growth through health. Is what happens if Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter both stay healthy right too? I mentioned him already at the top, I believe, But where's it going? So? But they are as I believe it was Eli mentioned. Is that you look at all these players with haven't heard Camradish, DeAndre Hunter not on Yeta Combu right now? But the Capella Collins O Congu stuff like that's gonna come a question when Capella is going to be a year out from free agency after this season, if they if there's a trade, or if there's a star that becomes available, I don't know which star it is. I think we've actually had this conversation loosely. Their roster is built and they have all their own picks. Their roster is built for consolidation at this point. They have nice mid tier salaries to throw out as matching tools. I wouldn't be the team that goes after Bradley Beal, I wouldn't be the team that went after even a Zach Lavine. I just don't know if the defensive infrastructure there can handle it. But if like Pascal Siakam's actually available, and I know this wasn't your favorite Ben Simmons fit, but like, I don't hate it as a Ben Simmons team, I so much. If it's minutes with John Collins, I don't hate it. If you're talking about minutes with Clean Cappela, then yeah, there are issues there. I actually am growing to like the Bradley Beale idea more and more. Like the defensive concerns are legitimate, but at least there is a defensive infrastructure. Now, at least you have multiple good defensive bigs. You have wing defenders in Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter. Granted a few of those would most likely be moved to get Bill. But if you can upgrade from Kevin Herder or Bogdan Bogdanovitch at the two to Biel and you have a Trey Young bal backcourt that is just flames on a nightly basis, and I think you can live with those defensive shortcomings because you still have so much depth of talent, and you still have at least a few defensive pieces in support. But I do agree that right now, I don't think that trade has to happen. It could be something that you think about mid season if these pieces aren't all coming together. But as much as we like to look at these kind of rosters that do have a lot of movable pieces, the young players their own draft picks and could make that big swing, Atlanta just went to the Eastern Inference Finals and looked the part of an Eastern Conference Finals team. It has such a young core with so much potential internal improvement from the incumbents. Not sure that you need to go out and find that external star right now, even if the roster is conducive to doing so. I do think they're at a point where they have to consider it by virtue of Kevin Herder's extension, eligible Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter up next season, and if they want to keep it together, that's fine and pay everyone. They're not going to pay everyone like that's just the no, They're probably not. I would just I'd rather see a smaller move where maybe you're not acquiring a superstar. But if you have that like Tier B, like maybe the level just below someone like Siakam and you're floating Gallo and one of Hunter and Reddish and a pick to get him. Like, that's the kind of smaller scale, still big move that I think Atlanta should be looking at rather than trying to blow up this core entirely by moving two young players and the picks. Yeah, I wasn't vocating for them to do so, I'm more so think the fact that they're able to do whatever is huge. I would say, do you know who I love for this team? Brandon Ingram would be a guy. If you can get Brandon Ingram without giving up DeAndre Hunter, which I would insist on not giving him up in that deal, that team would be ultra scary. I found the position question that you alluded to. It comes from David Gomez. What are the advanced metrics that indicate when the league became more fluid with positions positionless basketball? And when did it happen. I don't know that there's a statistical indicator because they still list players by position, but I would just go look at some of the like center minutes for certain players where it's you know, Bruce Brown is. I think cleaning the glass will classify him as a five in certain minutes because they know how he's playing for Brooklyn. Even Jeff Green, when Jeff Green used to be considered a two three and he is now he's a He's a backup five. And even with this might have always been because we've had magic, like Magic Johnson, but like Ben Simmons being a point guard, Luca Done being a point guard. Those are things that I look at, but you just don't need like an NBA body for that to work. I think that's the problem with bull Bulls that he has the size, the skill, he just doesn't have light. What is like, what is the girth? What is durability? Like? What is it? What's the word there? Meat? That's a fair one. Yeah, it's it's a tough question. I don't know that there's any statistical evidence, but it's something that's been happening roughly forever. I mean, you know there if you go through the annals of NBA history, like there are countless examples of guys who were point forwards, you know, like Chris Mullen, John Havelcheck. You can go on and on with those. Marcus Johnson in nineteen eighty four actually claims to have invented the term point forward after Nate Archibald was ruled out and he had to play more minutes. And we've seen that happen more and more frequently, with Lebron James basically mastering that role for his entire career. And then we saw probably the Golden State Warriors in particular, as that dynasty was starting, where Draymond Green was playing the small ball five minute, they were rolling out these microball lineups and all sorts of stuff, and the entire NBA started to follow that trend. I think that is probably the inflection point that I look to, even if it was happening previously. That's when it became something that every team could no longer afford to ignore, because the NBA is ultimately a copycat league, as is almost every other professional sports league, where if something works, everyone else reacts and tries to keep up with the trends. And to me, those Warriors teams are the ones that truly pushed the rest of the league to be like, oh, we need to do this. This is no longer some optional thing that we could have in the arsenal. We need to be able to play these small ball minutes, and then you just see the cavalcade of responses from there, where all of a sudden, every player, no matter how big, is expected to be able to either handle the ball or shoot, and the ones who aren't have to be so good at filling a specific niche that they're still playable. And it's probably only going to grow further from there where we eventually just see five outline up for every team, regardless of roster construction. Yeah, it wasn't even just the Draymond Green stuff for that, but like I think, maybe when switching became more popular, and then even in Andre Goadala as someone who can handle the ball as basically your point guard and let Steph and Clay run off of him. You're right, that's a great point that those Warriors teams were probably just like a model for so many Next question, I mostly just wanted to throw out the Marcus Johnson tidbit. Hey, he's a fantastic color announcer. By the way, he's absolutely great. Alex asked Rudy Gobert or the field for defensive Player of the Year. I'll probably take the field just because of the odds. It's almost like this is hosted on NBA Math or something. You know, Gobert is the best defender in basketball. He's a generational defender. I don't think there is any question about that. He's also one Defensive Player of the Year three of the last four years and is now the reigning winner. And there has to be some elephant element of voter fatigue gets played there. It's it's just inevitable. So would I list Gobert as the favorite. Absolutely? Do I think that he will have a legitimate shot and be a deserving winner. Absolutely, But there are so many other candidates, you know, Draymond Green, Ben Simmons, Bam out of Bio, The list goes on and on. Jannie should be in the conversation every year. What if Kawhi Leonards stays healthy all year and plays seventy plus games. There are just so many candidates not happening. That's not happening next year. It's probably not happening next year. That it just it makes too much sense to take the field in that particular question. Even if Gobert should be the favorite going into the year, you mentioned, there are so many guys, and I just agree. I think you named all of them. It's because Kauai is not going to play next year with the TORNASL. So you have Bam, you have Gobert, you have Simmons, you have Dre, and you have Jannie. I don't know that I can envision any one uh edging their way into that, especially because I do think, well, maybe voters aren't. I want to say wisening up to it because I don't want to apply that selecting someone else will be wrong. But there are limitations to the extent that a guy like Ben Simmons, who's more of a perimeter defender and just ultra versatile than he is the back line of your defense, there are limitations to how those guys can impact that. And so it feels like we're gonna be looking at the same six guys, those five And then I think I forgot to mention Joel Embiid, who I would have voted for Defensive Player of the Year, probably over Ben Simmons last year. I don't know where my ladder ended up with that. But I don't think there's like a I can't think. Can you think of anyone who could realistically? You could? You could tell me O Gianna, no, but you could say Jue Holiday if you want to, I'll listen to it. But some someone outside of those six names, if you had a bet on that player of the year, Myles Turn, Drew Holiday, Clint Capella, Miles if he stays healthy, oh Andy Davis is a great one. That all right, that's the one. I think. I think the fields a little bit more finite though overall, And that's far Eli says Janis will relax a bit as he should. I'm actually going to disagree with that. We had Mire and Fader, whose biography on Jannis came out earlier this week, on the show last week, I believe, and I asked her basically that exact question, just he's ascended to the peak of the NBA mountain, will he stay motivated? And you know, she is very uniquely positioned, having just written a biography on him, to answer that, and firmly believes that, given where his drive comes from and what we've seen to this point, that maybe the opposite will be true, where you can expect him to want to validate what just happened with them winning a championship, in him winning finals MVP more than ever. So I just don't think that he as a player, has that mentality where he allows himself to relax. MY two cents, there would be possession exists, Yanni Michael Jordan. I took that Personallymium he had treats Johanna seems so emotionally attached the alcavery possession. I can envision him taking like taking it easy. I don't think it's Eli's pointing out that's not a lack of motivation. I just don't. I don't think he knows how to go anything other than a billion miles an hour. Yeah, and even if the Bucks are so good and so deep that he can play thirty thirty two minutes a game during the other season games off like he's he's still going to make such a remarkable impact in those minutes that I think he's definitely in that conversation. He's just so good at that free safety role that's increasingly important in today's defensive schemes. Jake g asked, when evaluating last year's playoffs, to people undervalue the effect of Murray, Jamal Murray, Willbarton, Michael Porter Junior and other injuries because of how incredible Yo Kich is. It feels like that factor has been overlooked and Nuggets could be a real problem in the playoffs this year. Jake g added this, Actually, with the additions they've made in this offseason, I'm predicting a Hornets Nuggets finals. And there's no bias there for sure. Book it, write it in Scarpi, there's I don't know if it's is it being undervalue? Maybe it is, but I feel like it is. And maybe it's just because I live in Denver and I see a lot of the Denver writers and fans responding to things. But it feels like that's been a pretty established point where like, yeah, we know that the Nuggets would have been significantly better with Jamal Murray their primary creator within the half court aside from Yokich available, with Will Barton fully integrated into the rotation, rather than missing significant portions of the season and then attempting to re establish his role in a playoff setting like that seems to have been accounted for where the Nuggets weren't viewed as some postseason failure or something because that was understood even with Yo playing at such a high level. I think zach O has even said it that prior to the Jamal Murray injury. He thought the Nuggets were going to win the title and so they will. Everyone And as Eli mentioned, playoff Romil Murray's a huge loss, and he is because the dude is like fucking maniacal in the postseason. So I get that. It's interesting. I think people are undervaluing the impact it's going to have on this season, because, yeah, it'll be great if Jamil Murray's back to the playoffs, and knowing him, he probably will be. But what does he look like, what does the team look like? How much time they have the gel together? Because book, he's still really never played with Aaron Gordon basically, and that was the whole point of this team, which yeah it was about last year for sure, but it was to get a training camp together this whole season before Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr. Before their next contracts are are going to kick in. So I am fascinated to see what the Nuggets would look like at full strength. I think I'd still be terrified. I'm really hoping we see them staying together beyond next season, though, and I think, as Jake alluded to, they made some nice additions. I love we already waxed poetic about Bowens Highland, who knows if he's gonna play. Of course I love resigning to Mike Green obviously, as you know that. But the Jeff Green signing was just so smart because he's probably he's not probably, he's a better backup five than Paul Millsap at this point for what they need, and just so mobile. And now you have the option of, like in second units without Yo Kich, where you probably need to defend your ass off because you've lost the level of creation in the Murray alone line up. Sure you can still on Michael Porter Junior out there, but it's just not the same table setter. You can play Gordon and the Greens at the same time, and you have a real chance to like really just kill people on defense. And so I liked the moves they made were modest, but I think they're a semi big deal when you're looking at how they're going to try or have to try now to navigate the minutes that Yoki spends on the floor. Yeah, that's only what between eleven and sixteen minutes every game, But like, you can easily lose a lot of games in those small st bans in time. All I really have to add is that you are drastically undervaluing what Monte Morris fully unleashed can do. Is he fully unleached, Now it's not going to be starting okay better, I am who is? Who do you like better as their point of attack creator, Monte Morris or Kuno Composo. I think Morris still just you want to reserve Composo's primary energy expenditures for the defensive end, where he can just be this unrelenting pest. And ultimately you probably trust Morris a little bit more, not necessarily because he has as high as ceiling on the offensive end as Composo, but because you know what his floor is like just that. It's why I've loved him so much, as you know, is because he's like that that poor man's version of Chris Paul where he manages to avoid mistakes without seating aggressiveness. So having that in the lineup is valuable. While I agree with you, I just like to point out that you took this opportunity to compare my think Morris to Chris Paul. I respect. I respect the agenda only in terms of playing style, not in terms of value. Only that's gonna end up Dan's gonna end up cutting that clip somehow. That just makes me look terrible. Did you know that? Did you know that Malcolm Brogden is a top twenty five player, top thirty You did hedge against that a little bit? Uh? Thanks? Question Omar Rana, how do we measure Scottie Barnes versus Jael and Suggs this year? Before you answer, I would argue that we shouldn't. But just assuming that you have to draw at any sort of referendum based off their rookie years, what let me frame it to you this way? What would make to you the Raptor's decision look like a smart one to take Barnes over Suggs after year one. I don't have an answer to that question because I don't think it can be answered. There is no situation in which I want to say player X was better than player Y one season into their career. Yeah, it's it's just too tough. I think. Also, you know, if the situations are so different in the roles figure to be so different, Leon says, it's already looking like a good decision. Scotty Marten's offense is offensive. That came from Eli, I will say, Scotty Moore's a lot more fluid on the ball than I thought. He broke out some there was a fake. I think he hit it over Jonathan Comingia. He he faked left, spun around, hit a turnaround jumper. I think he's more of a project than Suggs. But when you look at the volume, sugs are gonna have the shoulder. There's also a chance that Suggs doesn't have a great rookie year because the magicer once again operating within this like very cramped offense, and I expect him to be saddled with a ton of the burden of not just creation for himself, but also for others. So I I understand the logic behind the Raptor's pick already. I think this is a conversation we need to be having, probably three and four years down the line. Though great, there are some situations where you can essentially write a player off after one year, you know, look at Anthony Bennett. But those are few and far between, and recent NBA history is littered with examples of guys who looked like they were going to be early busts and came out and had a dynamite second season, maybe had two bad seasons and had a breakout third year and are now annual All Star candidates. You know, it's so hard to effectively write a referendum on a player's career or a team's draft decision one year into it, especially especially when they're such polar opposite types of prospects. No one is ever going to compare Scotty Barnes's game to Jellen Suggs's game. I don't know how you do that effectively. I mean, if you put Scottie Barnes on the ball enough, they might. Eli says there's just something about Suggs, this skill his poison skill set. I would agree. He seems like a very game ready scoring He's actually I think it was his second Summer League game. He showed that he could do more off the ball, and he had some nice passes. I'm not sure if Eli was in the room when I metched this the top. I'm still concerned about how he's gonna hold up against more physical defenses, and I could see his game either stalling out before the rim in those situations a lot of the time because he's just doesn't feel like that aggressive going through contact, or as we saw on that game, as well, like just deferring a bunch when he really shouldn't be you kind of this is a great segue because you were talking about Barnes and Sucks playing very different roles. James Chiapuzzo asked, what's the best way to compare players at different positions? It's in what context? Like are we trying to rank? Did you see everyone was like so pissed off about Seth Partnow's player rankings at the athletic this past week? So like, let's just say, as someone who does we do player rankings an NBA math, I do them for Bleacher Report as well, the top the NBA one hundred there. Look at it in that context, how would you evaluate when you're trying to rank players, like in terms of I guess overall value in the abstract? What are what are you doing when they you know, when it's trying like Anthony Davis versus Damian the Lord right, Ultimately it's the value add is the ultimate barometer. And however you're going to come to those decisions, it's going to be different for every single person, both as the evaluator and as the evalue at where you know, ultimately we're looking at the impact a player can make on offense, whether it's as a screen set or as a scorer, as an off ball scorer, as a passer, whatever the case may be, and then doing the same with defense. But you also, and I think this is where positions come into play, as you have to realize that there are differing importances to those skill sets at each position. So if you're gonna like, let's ridiculously overly simplify this and say that you can essentially grade each player on a one to ten scale for defensive ability. If player X is a center, like a true center who only plays at the five and is a three on defense, and then you have a point guard who's a three on defense, that three for the point guard is not as is not as detrimental as the center who's a three on defense because ultimately, in today's NBA point of attack defense is very hard to play and not necessarily as impactful because of switching schemes because of the ability of bigs to clean up behind them. But having a terrible rim protector who can't switch and as virtually immobile on the interior is hugely damaging to an overall defensive scheme. So there's no like clear cut answer to that question or how you rank those players, because there are so many different pieces of context that come into play. For every single thing. You have to consider their fit within their team, how they're deployed, the scheme they're operating in, the quality of their teammates, the importance of various pieces of their role, and how those differ from similar roles at different positions. There are just myriad factors, and I don't think that that can really be boiled down into a concise answer. I do think players like Anthony Davis are at inherent disadvantage in the discussions because offensive value, to me, like shock creation for both yourself and others, is going to always be inherently more valuable than it's probably the most valuable skill. So like a Damian Lillard is like, yeah, he doesn't finish above Davis often in player rankings, but you know, look at James Harden or Stephen Curry, like, if you can be a transcendent passer and scorer, it's more valuable than someone who's like a one man defense unto herself. For me, this is we have some like other these questions are very abstract. I'm enjoying them. But at this point I'm going to go to it because it's like kind of on this subject from our little Clement. I was hoping you could talk some about Golden State's wing rotation and just a couple of seasons they've gone from having nothing on the wing to being loaded there. I mean, you've got Clay returning, but also Wiggins, Moses Moody, Jonathan cominga Otto porter, and Andre Goadala. I consider big wing players to be the most useful archetype in the current NBA, So this team construction intrigues me. You were talking on the last episode about Toronto's defensive potential in all their longings, and it struck me that Golden State might be the only team to match them there. I'm not saying any of those players are amazing on their own besides Clay, but it seems like it could be an awesome, switchable defensive unit. More importantly, will we ever see Steph and a four wings lineup? I have mixed feelings here. I think that the lineup that they could put together, whether it's Steph and four wings or just deploying these various wings that they have on the roster, intriguing is the right work. I don't know that I'm sold on them yet. Otto Porter Jr. Has not been able to stay healthy. Even when he has, we have not seen the same level of effectiveness we saw early in his career, where he was appearing to be that Swiss army knife of a wing who could fill so many different roles at an above average level that he was going to be immensely valuable as an all around player. Andre Iguodala is roughly eighty three years old and probably isn't going to play more than ten minutes per game during the regular season, and the Kamia hype, I get it, but it's based on summer league. We have. It is exciting. It is for sure that he's able to get to the rim seemingly at will, that he's able to finish with athleticism and finesse around the basket. But that's the exact kind of takeaway I don't want to have from summer league, as we discussed at the top, like being able to bully your way past summer league defenders who aren't necessarily as big, physical and talented as rotation defenders during an NBA regular season and are probably a second or two slower to react because they're still trying to figure out their rotations and everything, and not just playing within a scheme as they would later in a regular season or operating solely on instincts because of the setting. Like that's the kind of skill that I don't know that I buy based solely on seeing it from summer league comming. As a prospect, I had a lot of question marks about coming into the NBA draft because of his shooting limitations, because of the offensive inefficiency that we'd seen, some of the decision making that was made. I don't know how often he's going to be able to operate with the ball in his hands on a Golden State roster that is still led by Steph Purry, that is still going to give Draymond Green touches, that is still going to fully integrate Clay Thompson. So intriguing, sure, but I don't know that I'm ready to call this a high quality wing rotation yet. Well. I think with Kaminga, a lot of his buckets were not coming with him just working on the ball, so that if anything, Draymond Green Steph are going to make his job easier. And as you already mentioned about, it's finishing. This is someone who can finish through or around or over a brick wall, and I do think that can translate. I think the line I'm not saying it can't. I'm definitely not saying it can't. The lineups around him, to me are the bigger problem because how often are you can have clear paths to the basket. Not clear, but it's going to be more cramped when your own teammates are in the lane. If it's a Draymond Green or James James Wiseman, can you play those three at the same time? Maybe this forces them to lean in a Draymond Green at the five lineups. I honestly don't know, but yes, I would agree with you where this team, I wouldn't call them loaded at the wing position as you were at You outlined all the reasons with Iggy Auto Porter Jr. Moses Moody might be the most important youngster on their team based off his skill set and then knowing what Wiseman looked like last year, and then just kaminga is seems just more like forced than skill at this point. And I'm not on offense anyway, so I feel like that could be something that kirktails his playing time or maybe he's in Santa Cruz A lot also is You know, the Warriors talk a lot about trying to bridge the gap into the next era. I have no idea what that means because we haven't seen them at full strength actually going for a title with it. How often are they playing these guys again, I think Moody, I know we talked about or Raoul will mention that their wing rotation is loaded, and I guess if you look at the name recognition there and sure, but if Otto Porter's the auto porter we've seen in the past, you know that we saw last year. If Andre Godala is what he was last year, which is like a marginally impactful defensive player, you need Moses Moody to be like your and D guy because you don't have one of those on the roster otherwise other than Clay who might not play the December or January. So I still think the Warriors can be ultra dangerous. I do kind of think that people are getting ahead of themselves about how easy it's going to be for them to straddle these two different timelines which are going to be warring against one another. When you because Comingo's gonna have growing pains. Why is is gonna have growing pains? The season was cut short. We don't know how health he's been over the off season to train after tearing his I think his meniscus tear right is what happened in so I get. I think Golden you know, we talked about this being a copycat league, Golden State Toronto. There are other teams that are doing it too. Is like, you know, either build around. You see it in Boston and with the Clippers they found two playmaking wings, so to speak. I don't know if you consider Jaylen Brown that, but he's closer than not to me. Those are the archetypes that you want to build around, and then there are teams that are like, yeah, we're gonna try and build around. Maybe these aren't the most polished players. When you look at a Cominga, when you look at a Scottie Barnes, we're just gonna try to assemble a bunch of them together and we're going to be terrod actyls who are just absolute nightmares have to go up against. On defense, Leon says Comingga is a ball of force and his potential is through the roof the pick and roll with Wiseman cominga and Steph is insane. Warriors going to the Western Conference finals. You have to believe that Comingga is gonna hit three, like right or that why right? And how many players throughout NBA history have we seen who do have astronomical potential and it's not realized, whether because of injuries, because they're not put in situations that allow them to fully realize that potential. There are countless examples, and yeah, like the idea of a pick and roll set with Steph running at Wiseman's screening and Comiga operating as an off ball presence. It's intriguing. But the Warriors don't run that kind of pick and roll offense. Every possession, Weisman still has bricks for hands. There are a lot of concerns there. I mean, if you're if you're telling me that you're putting Damian Lillard and someone like that in a high pick and roll, which the Blazers love to run on a nightly basis sure, but like that's not how Golden State has operated on offense. And also if they do, I think the best way, and I think this is probably what Leon was alluding to, is that you're probably envisioning Kaminga as the initiator, Wiseman screening and Steph floating around off the ball. That's the way to make the most out of that pick and roll and constantly putting Stephan Curry off the ball that much. It's just like that doesn't do it for me. I'm sorry, unless you know, unless it's Kevin Durant, who's the guy running the pick and roll? And Eli had asked this question has a follow up question on this topic. Knowing what we know about the value of shock creation, why did the Warriors draft Wiseman over LaMelo. I was shocked they select him, seeing how they ushered into they's NBA style, I will say they should have drafted LaMelo, and I think that was clear in the moment. But I do believe and I'm just the bridge the era thing. Yeah, it was the it was, And it was also just people thought LaMelo was so boom or bust that there was no medium outcome for him. It felt like, and I think they tried to take the safer pick while taking the bridge into the next era, rather than going for the you know, people talked a lot about fit. They needed another playmaker, so the fit was there. So I'm totally with you, Eli, and I think everyone, especially now Is is right there with you that they definitely should have taken LaMelo. I don't know what this team looks like with him, And also they might be thinking, like, well, it didn't work out with D'Angelo Russell, so like what lame And I think that I think the DeAngelo Russell experiment might have scared them off a little bit of the LaMelo situation. And I was someone who thought LaMelo laughed at the Median outcome as well. I was a luw on him, but I thought this guy's happen gonna be transcendent or we're gonna look back on this and go, oh, holy shit, what happened? So I don't want to, you know, I might have gotten that decision wrong in the moment. At the same time, it seemed it still seemed like such a no brainer pick because I go through this with Evan Mobley too. I just don't know that I'm burning a top five pick on the center unless I mean, unless it's Anthony Davis or is Eli mentioned Karlin Anthony Towns right now, They're even if they're like, like you believe in their floor games, like in Evan Mobley, they're not even a mismatch at the five anymore. They unferral in sort of this slower motion than they would for wings. And so these are really good players. But you take the guy who profiles as someone who can create the author dribble jumper, and that is also just this angelic passer, and in hindsight it's clearly a no brainer. But even as someone who is skeptical of a mellow, in the moment, it felt like, why are they going this route? This is this felt like a front office is trying to play it too safe or you know, trying to be so smart, like like just thought that Wiseman he was like plugged more of a hole because they don't want Draymond to be a five as much, which again I think that is overthinking the process. The only the only spot I even marginally disagree with you, as I'm still just so high on Mobley's potential that I think he's an exception to this rule. But I do generally agree with you. Is he excepted this rule when you just paid Jarrow one hundred million dollars? Probably not? Probably not. Let's get to the last few questions. Here we've answered this question in some form, but I did it a different way from Gabe Sanza, who led the playoffs and unassisted threes. And by the way, if these questions the fact that we've gotten is more than once doesn't tell you about the direction of the NBA. I don't know what does do you caretake? So I did this for PPP stats tracks unassisted point scored, all three pointers. Can you guess who led the playoffs and unassisted three points? Hm let insist the threes. I don't know that some of the primary candidates played enough minutes. It might be like it could be like Paul George. Paul George's six. All right, it could be Trey You know they made it all the way to the East Skerton Conference finals, so there's enough of a sample there. Okay, So Trey Young is second, and ELI guess Chris Middleton, who's actually number three? Still missing the first? Is it? Could Katie have been? It? Did? Kevin kem Riss not even in the top ten. He doesn't take enough threes. I don't think he's He's fifteen. Lebron actually had more, he's fourteen. Also, Kevin Durant can operate off the catch a lot more than the other guys, So it just felt like, especially later, I was I was shocked by the answer because he didn't even come close to playing the most amount of games he was injured at one point. Donovan Mitchell, Wow, good for one hundred and seven. He generated one hundred and seventeen points off unassisted threes. Trey Young was second one oh five. Those are the only two that were in the hundreds, and Chris Middleton was number three with ninety. I will say that's impressive for Donovan Mitchell just didn't play that much and it still shows you the extent to which Utah relies on him. Absolutely, just absolutely incredible. So that was Would you care to know who led if you had to guess who led the playoffs in unassisted two points? Joannis, Yeah, it's a volume It's a volume thing for sure. Constant attacks. Devin Booker two, Chris Paul three, Trey Young four, Chris Middleton five, and Paul George was sixth. Again, kudos to Paul George being in the top six of both unassistant threes and unassistant two and Trey and Middleton as well. No one cares about Trey is the ball in his hand so much. Get over you. Paul George had to compete with Terrence Man and Reggie Jackson for touches. Okay, I want to talk more about Trey Young now. I feel disrespected personally and professionally. That's actually unfortunate because we're gonna move right along to these final two questions that I have, Marta, what were the this from comes from Dutch courage. What were the main statistical reasons for the King's defense being so bad last season? I'm assuming you don't have those off the top of your head, and I researched this question, so I'll take it to you should probably go there the and I mean you watched enough Kings basketball to probably guess. Unfortunately, but they were thirtieth in points of lab per possession. They this is kind of it's not a dent against one of our favorites here. Rashawn can't rebound to save their life, is that the answer? Well, it's that, but they can't protect the rim to save their life either. Basically bottom five in both the frequency at which opponents shot at the rim and they're a percentage allowed at the rim. A lot of that had to do with their backup big man rotation. A lot of that also had to do with the fact that they tried to limit three point attempts. That puts more pressure inherently on the people around the basket. And when those people around the basket aren't Rudy Gobert, if they're not Miles Turner, if they're not Joel Embiide, that's a recipe for borderline disaster. But on top of the fact that while they did limit threes, they could not defend threes very well. There might be some luck caked in there, but they were consistently towards the bottom of the league and opponent three point percentage allowed. They also just found all the time, and as Adam noted, they can't rebound. I also think when you look at their roster construction, they don't have and you know they still don't. I mean Davey on Mitchell, but that's one who impressed me a bunch in Summer League by the way his defense, his defensive energin, he's just he doesn't like blanket people so much as where they're a skin for decoration. That's my opinion of Davy on Mitchell. But sacronad just doesn't have wing defenders. Harrison Barnes is not a wing. I think he's best stuited at the four, and maybe he can get away with some three minutes. Buddy Hill is not a wing. He is, He's a two who's just not you know, put him anywhere, he's not gonna defend, it doesn't matter. Moe hark Was is another example, not a wing, someone who I think should be playing more for maybe even a small ball five type role. And then Robert Woodard just might be their best wing prospect in general, maybe even you know, I want to see if they're going to go with the three guard lineup of Fox, Haliburton, and Mitchell, because while davy on Mitchell is six two I believe, and then Fox is six three Haliburton six seven, so in theory maybe he could go up against some truer wings. That's just going to be something. Though even if that works out, they haven't solved it. They need some like real not doesn't have to be locked down, but they need some guys who are best playing the three, not fours small ball four's masquerading as three's type deal. I was looking at Sacramento's four factors on defense per Basketball Reference thirtieth, and effective field goal percentage allowed seventeenth, and turnover percentage force twenty ninth and defensive rebounding percentage and twentieth and free throw per field goal attempt allowed. It's pretty rare that you see a team that is in the bottom half of the NBA in all four categories because there are typically some trade offs there where like the teams that are forcing a lot of turnovers and our lead in that category are naturally fouling a lot because they're more aggressive. But the Kings were just bad across the board, and Joe was a big part of that, at least for the first seventy five percent of the season needless switching, and I think it shows in the fact that they actually struggled. Their defense was terrible after made baskets at them dead last in efficiency or opponent points per possession allowed after the Kings made a baskets less than ideal. Yeah, you have time to set your defense and you're just gonna do all this switching anyway when you wanted the personnel for it. I actually think they have the personnel to be not a good defensive team and not just noticeably better because they were so bad there's nowhere to go but up. I think they can be noticeably better, but like it's gonna take your commitment to getting back, and having Davion Mitchell there might help. You don't need to like switching is. I think the NBA has probably become too switch happy. You need the personnel for it. And the Nets are a team that we weren't sure they were gonna play this way last year, but they ended up being switch happy and they got the personnel to do it right down to like Blake Griffin, like they had Jeff Green to do it as well, And so I don't know if Patty Mills is going to hold up this year, that's fair to question, but getting a Bruce Brown last year like that kind of informed how they were going to defend. If you want to switch, have the personnel for it. I want to tell you right now. The Kings, they're a little bit closer with Davion Mitchell, Hawld Burton and Barnes, but like they're they're not there if that's how you want to play. I agree about the switch happiness of the NBA. I think that fighting over screens or going under screens or just avoiding them in general is very much a lost art in today's NBA. A lot of guys should just go watch some Paul George tape because he is unbelievably good at feeling out where the street where the screen is coming from and just making sure that he does not take the full brunt of it and doesn't need to switch because if you don't have the personnel for it, don't do it. Final two questions, This one should be quick. Braids asked, how do you become a mop guy who cleans the floor sweat during games. I'm just gonna tell you right now. You have a connection. That's how that That's how those jobs work. That or I guess you could be like a mega wish kid. But I don't think they're mopping up the floor. They're probably doing something a little bit more fun than that. I just figured I throw that question in there. But the actual and if you have any questions in the chat, we can try to answer them really quickly. But let's get to this last mail bag question that we have in the bank at this point. Joe Schmow asked, does Westbrook get the Lakers over the hump? I vote no. I'm still not sure how he fits with Lebron James, and I think that that's just the you know, to nut shell it. I think with the Lakers in the question, right is, I think the Lakers elevated their ceiling in the games ad minutes that Lebron does not play. I don't know that they've done anything to increase their ceiling when all their best players, you know, best players in a vacuum, are on the floor together and they will probably be favorites in the rest West. I think with the Kawai injury and the Murray injury in Denver, I am right now today nothing else happens around the league yet no Ben, no Ben Simmons trade, no nothing. We know something's gonna happen, but nothing happens. Who are you picking to come out of the West. We already know who you're picking to come out of the East. It has to be Brooklyn, right like Brooklyn is just yeah, I mean, I think Brooklyn is the safest bet. I still have questions about that roster construction, as you know, and you know we covered this in our last mail Bag episode where the Lakers and the Nets both I think are reasonable teams to fade given the way their odds are currently structured, because there are legitimate roster construction questions. I think I'm still picking Utah for like third season in a row because I apparently cannot learn from my own mistake. And I still believe in this team that has enough young pieces that it could reasonably be getting better. The additions they made to the second unit continue to be promising Conley's back, we saw the impact that he could make when healthy. I think that this remains the best team in the West regular season. Yes, I still have questions about we got yelled at on so Eli asked two questions to wrap us up here, Eli, you should check out our YouTube channel, YouTube dot com search Harder Knox. We have a clip up from this past week where we talked about Utah specifically, and the YouTube comments were They're mostly kind, but people there were someone arguing because I said, I'm still concerned that while they're able to downsize now, they still need a bigger athletic wing defender. Royce Sonel's a touch too small, and there were someone of the YouTube comments arguing that Rudy Gay and Joe Ingles are athletic. Now. I want to make a quick relative to me, they are absolutely athletic relative if you didn't skip leg days I hate you know, relative too NBA players they are not. And so I think if you like Utah, Adams is not the only one who hid in Utah. Both super high on Utah. I'm probably picking Phoenix again to come out of the West, to be honest with you, but Utah is like, it's like one it's not a great player short, it just feels like one specific archetype of player short who can give you like even like if they had Tory Craig, I might pick them to come out of the West. And that's how that's totally fair. I think it feels like we're making an excuse every year for Utah, but the excuses also feel kind of legitimate. That last stuff out, Yeah, it's just and now Donovan Mitchell, you know he wasn't healthy entering the playoffs and still just went nuclear. Imagine what this team at full strength could potentially do. That said, if you want to pick Utah, Phoenix, Denver, the Lakers, the Warriors to come out of the West, do it. This This field is just literacy charity this year, and it's it should be a really fun season, and honestly, like your teams could break through, Like Portland has so much talent still that even if there are significant holes on that roster, can you rule out Dame just turning it up to eleven for an entire postseason and carry me like you mean like he did and saw them get eliminated anyway, Yeah, stuffered me to envision. I'm with you that, Look, there's a path if the Lakers fit is so awkward, I totally get it. But right Eli asked what role player might become available for Utah during the season. A wing player, that's what they need. I would watch Boston because they're clearly going after Bradley Beale in twenty twenty two free agency to try and link up him and Jason Tatum, who are friends. And you have Josh Richardson on an expiring contract and if he's either not playing well or you're not going to get after it this season, Utah has the contracts to make. Some of them are aspiring. One of them is Joe Ingles he Eli, I'm so over Josh. I still believe I believe in the Josh from two years ago, final two years ago, or like three or four years ago. It was his last season, Wyami, he was fantastic. Everyone was like they weren't. Everyone was upset the Sixers lost out on Jimmy Butler, but it was like, oh they got Josh Richardson back, like this could work. Yeah, but you you shot down my dame arguments. So I feel like I had to invalidate however with sense. Yeah, what are facts? The last question here Eli said, how would you feel about the fourtiest offseason if they truly went after Holmes. We actually did cover this in the last pot very briefly. The fact that Rashaun Holmes signed for an average annual value of under twelve million dollars baffling. If they could have gotten him for fifteen, like if he was just going to chase the bag, I might have declared the winners of the like the pre eminent winners of the off season. I still think they did a salad job, but knowing how much Holmes ended up costing, the Kings couldn't match it unless they created cap space because of the way early bird rights work, So I could not believe he got an early bird rights deal. I was I had him. I think we set the over under a sixteen for him, and I think the over I think we take eighteen. I think eighteen was your number because I think I saw twenty was my number. Well, either way, we were so funny. He Adam, he's getting paid under twelve million. He's gonna make ten point four ten point six million dollars last year, next year, whatever it is that is. Had you been you might have been able to get him for even cheaper than we're thinking because he's getting raises. You could have given him a flat deal and been like, hey, here's four fifty six. You get to make fourteen million dollars next year as opposed to ten point three. So yeah, I would have I'm fine with the Hornets off season overall, don't get me wrong, But had they gotten Rashaun Holmes, like I said, I might have just declared them the preeminent winners right there with you, and like, no disrespect meant to Sacramento aside from like all the disrespect that I mean. But no one is taking a hometown discount to stay with the Kings. That's why I mean, not how it's gonna work. So I just want to he happened to Holmes his market like, well, no, we're their offers out there. I think he maybe, I think he might have wanted to stay because look at how much Toronto ended up giving Ken. You're gonna tell me they wouldn't have paid. I know they ended up operating without cap space, but I would like to see all the offers that came through and seeing what he legitimately had on the table before deciding to remain there. It's like, yeah, on the surface, it does seem like he took a hometown discount, But how much of that is us as analysts being out of touch with what's actually being offered? Jared I who got one hundred million dollars right, So there's like there's I'm saying, there had to be a market for him, and if there wasn't, you would think. So. All I'm saying is I want to see that. So here's my thing. If you're if you're Dallas, you wouldn't have just been like, oh, hey, we'll sign Rashaun Holmes to four fifty and use caspas eve though he's not the cleanest fit with So maybe there is more investigation there, and it was totally in the off season two. It's just it's bafflet it's one of the best contracts signed in my opinion. Maybe they're way he's poorer, but and look now the king's in theory, Like I don't want to move Reshawn Holmes, but they're probably gonna not be great again. And he's twenty seven the value they get back for that deal, like someone you know, we might be questioning whether, oh, was there enough cap space out there for something to happen, because you look at Toronto decided not to operate with cap space. It was basically Charlotte and he I said this in the chat, like I thought he was going to be a hornet a hornet, So I guess there weren't a lot of teams with a clear need version. He got less than a million dollars more than the mid level exception though you gave Boston gave Tristan Thomson the full mid level last year. I don't think it's there's maybe there's something else at play, but I guarantee you if there has to be some level of hometown discount, way for sure. But like if they you know what I mean, Like, it's not like the eight to ten million dollars of hometown discount that's in play that I'm curious about. That's fair. Maybe he maybe he had offers a fourteen fifteen and just decided, you know what, I like Sacramento and my role here is going to be prominent. But if they want to, I guarantee the didn't get a prospect and a first round pick for that deal next season without question for December, for sure, that'll do it for us. Anyone who has not checked this out before, we are the Hardwoo Knox podcast. We are right now contracted to do one Spotify green room every week on Sunday, normally at four pm Mestern time. Come check us out. Check out our overall podcasts. Search Hardwoo Knox wherever you get your podcast subscribe. Please download all our episodes. Leave ratings and reviews. We really appreciate them. They help us out a bunch. We appreciate any and all listeners that we have. We love every single one of you. Shout out to listener j L who's been pushing us to make a discord and I have not answered his last email. I think it's been like six weeks. I've not forgotten about you. I'm just terrible with emails at the moment. I'm swamped, so follow us on YouTube? Would you post clip? Sometimes YouTube exclusives there YouTube dot com search hardwoin Knox will come up. We're on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. Hey guess what. We're also on Instagram at Hardwood Underscore Knox, and we are on TikTok at Hardwood Knox on TikTok until next time. Leave you off with the shout out to the one the only in love with Sacramento so much that he rejected a twenty one million dollars a year deal from someone somewhere, probably Rashaun Holmes