What is krack lacking? Fellow thermonuclear affers, I am Dan Valley coming at you with my certified fantabuloust incredibly strong, can do multiple muscle ups. Co host Grant Hughes. We are on to offseason mode. Officially, we're well, we've already started. We have our Atlantic Division off season lookheads up, we're moving on to the Pacific Division, talking about every team in there. First and foremost, though, please remember to rate, review and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. This is your first time checking us out. Hit subscribe, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, those are the places that help us out the most. Ratings and reviews. On Apple help us out a ton so written reviews, ratings Please five stars only. Join our discord the link too that is in the podcast and YouTube description. We have a great group of people in there. We would love to see it continue to row. Follow us on all the socials at Hardwood Knox on Twitter and TikTok at Hardward Underscore Knox on Instagram. 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But maybe they've googled it and they're like, oh, it's just some shitty basketball podcast. I don't ask, but even that would be great. They I see them when I have a thermo. I have a Thermonuclear AF shirt that I've wanted the gym a few times already. I see people looking at it like the fuck does that mean? And they want to ask, and I feel like they eventually might ask, but I've been told that I have resting asshole face, so I don't know that they ever would ask me, but I'm waiting for it. But I'm trying to get Harvard Knox's name out into the public. Yeah, thermonuclear asshole face is what we're talking about. That's right. You don't want that. Everyone from my wife, my sisters, my in laws, my friends are just told me that I have They use different words, but that I'm resting thermonuclear resting thermonuclear asshole face. That's how I've always thought of you. How are you doing since we last spoke many many moons ago. I'm good, similarly good. I'm happy. This feels like a home game because we're doing the Pacific Division today. We're going to do a Pacific Division preview, and being on the West Coast, these are the teams I see the most, and I feel like this will be a lightlift to tie all the way back into your discussion of lifting heavy things. Just very quickly. I'm over these West Coasters coming to the East Coast to cover a finals game, Like, how do you people have the US Coast stay up and watch sports. You motherfuckers. Don't got to rub it in like it's not easy, you and your superior time zones where I love mountain mountains, my actual favorite one. I covered conference finals there remotely ones, and I was in love like two hours behind with it. I was like, I love this, you West Coasters, like, oh, last night's game ended at eight finals, Game finals, game five at an eight pm Pacific time. I hate you. And then you come over here and you just rub it in our faces that we have to be up super late if we want to pay attention to the sports hashtag to sports. Yeah, there's two things to know about coastal elitism. One is that it's real, and two is that it is well founded. It's justifiable for basketball reasons. At least. On that note, we will go into We'll begin with alphabetical order, which means we'll start with the Sacramento Kings, the Golden State Warriors, so as just a recap will we've tried to streamline this from years past. We'll go through the like notable free agents, any extendiment eligible candidates we think matter, and we'll talk about what they could spend. And if we're talking about trades. We'll get into what assets they might have, but I'm not going to list off the you know, trade assets or more for the deadline stuff. What do you want to take us through the Warriors or do you want me to start? Yeah? I can start. So the basics are the things you need to know. They have a handful of key free agents. Uh. First, the first two of which are significant. Draymond Green and Dante DiVincenzo have player options. Devincenzo is a lock to decline his player option because he outplayed it feels like potentially a mid level guy and the Warriors just can't do that. So he's probably a goner. Draymond Green, nobody's really sure yet what he's gonna do. Twenty seven point six million, I think is the number. Could opt out, could could extend, could opt in, extend. There's a bunch of bunch of options there. Clay Thompson is also extension eligible his MAX, which there was a report that he expected it during the playoffs, and I feel like that was a little overstated. Four years, two hundred and twenty four million. It's a lot of money for Clay thoms You can give it to him, is what you're saying right, and I think that's a roundabout. I have a max contract calculator in one of our hardwood knocks docks where I think I have all the up to date capituation, so it's into two hundred stuff. Yeah, that's sufficient. That's what you need to know to gauge the validity of his max expectation there. They are extremely inflexible. They are way above the second apron. There's a chance their payroll plus taxes like four hundred fifty million dollars or more somewhere in that range. So they got minimums to offer. They're not going to have really any other roster building tools, don't have any trade exceptions. They have several needs, although I would say before we get into that, this is this team. The starting five Steph Clay Wiggins, Draymond Kavan Looney plus twenty two point one per one hundred during the year, best in the league, over five hundred possessions, plus nineteen point eight in the playoffs. So it works. They've got so they will. We'll keep that in mind as we go through how many various needs they have. The first of which is obviously a shot creator that we'll talk about Jordan Poole. He affects whether they need how badly they need one of those Some bigger wings need another big maybe. So, uh, where would you like to take this, because I let's start with the incumbents, where Draymond Green's the simplest one. Is he back. I think he's back, and I think probably what's likely to happen is he'll be back at a multi on a multi year deal that starts at or below his player option number, like potentially significantly below it, and gives you know, goes three four years. That that would be. That would be my expectation, like you know, three for seventy five, four for one hundred something like that. I think is it feels like the logical outcome to me? What do you what do you think I would agree? Agree with you there that I don't think he's gonna get whether he declines his player option or I don't think he's gonna get a higher average annual salary than he's slated to make next year. That would surprise me if he gets over that twenty seven million number. And I would be shocked too if he left. I agree, and it's not just because of the loyalty and all this other stuff. It's like the options out there that have money to pay him enough to pull him away or just not generally speaking great. The only team that I think I would actually love the fit excuse me, I have the hiccups, that could pay him. I would kind of like to see him in Indiana, just like him and Miles Turner. Sure screw things up to but it's just not gonna happen, like does you know? So my other question lay a Klay Thompson, what is the number you would be comfortable extending him at? And I'm assuming it's not his max salary. I think in that first season of what would be an extension, it would be fifty plus million dollars about about about fifty million dollars on the button if the salary cap projections hold, which again mate, they might not, So like that's that's a lot of money. Yeah, I mean the number I would have is one that he would not accept, like full stop, you know, Like I so by the logic of well, I'll ask you a question, then I'll give you my answer. Who's more important to the Warriors Draymond Green or Klay Thompson over the next three four years oh, man, I think it's Draymond Green, right, everything he brings Defensively, I agree. So if I'm going four for one hundred on the high end for him, that's as high as i'd go for Clay, And it's like that's he's never I don't think he's gonna take that because if you're averaging twenty five million a year, that's like that's like good starter money. That's not all Star money necessarily anymore because the CAP's going up. And I think that's what Klay Thompson is. You know, he played a full season this year, was not an All Star I don't think deserve to be one. Still a good player, great shooter, like I think he could probably defend up a position maybe a little more often if that were necessary, But you know, defensively he's not the same. So I think you pay him like a good starter and that's that's that's the Draymond money basically. I mean, if I were if I had to be like really harsh about it, I would go lower than I would be willing to pay Draymond honestly. So you're talking like sub twenty five, yeah, like if you could do you know, four for eighty five or four for ninety even something like that. I mean, I think that's the cap is going up. So maybe I'm you know, a little out over my skis on that, But the bottom line is, like I would pay him less than I would pay Draymond, I think annual and in terms of like years and dollars, I think Draymond has more value even if even if, like you worry about boy, if Draymond loses a step defensively, then like, what do you have that that that's a concern. I'm also noticing that I had the wrong number in his doc, so I think his max is actually four years, two hundred and thirty one point six. For anybody who cares with the starting max of a little over fifty one. Do you think he signs an extension? Would you? Would you predict? Wonder? Do you think? No? No? I think the Warriors, like, I mean, I think he'd probably liked to, but he's not going to get the numbers that he wants. And I think the Warriors like the idea of forty three point two million coming off the books next summer, and then you know the options that that may afford them, you know, like I don't I think if if the only way that he would extend, I think is if he were willing to accept way less, way way way less than the max, and I just I don't feel like that's likely. Can we talk about Jordan Pool? What are Yeah, I guess before we even get into the free agency thing is gonna be, it's minimums. It's even if they moved Jordan Fool, probably gonna be as part of a talent acquisition. And this would, in fear, is going to be the easiest offseason to move Jordan Pool or make a talent acquisition play because not all of the new CBA punitive rules kick in. What you're asking me, I think you know what I would do, But like, what are you Jordan Pool's guarantee? He's got that four year Where is he guaranteed one hundred and twenty three million? I think you should get up to get higher than that. What are what are you doing? If you are you aggressively shop him? Do you think there's a market for him? Are you selling low on him at this point, which is what I think you would be doing. Are you letting this ride into the next season? I think you made this point at the top but I think it bears repeating the start the top five work. What's so challenging about this rosters. You've got to kind of figure out the rotation after that. And that's a little to say that they need, Like a sixth or seventh best player who's reliable into the postseason is damning after you gave Jordan Pool the money that you gave Jordan Pool. Yeah, for sure. So I mean so the reporting by Anthony Slater of The Athletic most recently was that the Warriors are not like I forget the exact verbiage, but you know, not actively shopping him. They think it can work with him and Draymond. Like I feel like that's what you would say no matter what, because you're not just gonna say, yeah, we gotta get rid of this, like you know that they're never gonna say that that cuts against everything we saw, Like he just Pool just did not was not the same player this year as last on either end, and it just it's hard to unsee that, you know, And so I think they have to look really hard at trading him, which is an incredibly tricky thing because you already need more shot creation even with him on the roster, and if you trade him, I don't think it's likely you're getting back someone that want. I think it's highly unlikely you get someone back that is as good as Pool was two years ago when they won the title, And like, you might get someone it's not that hard to get someone that would be as efficient as he was this past season, But you're really trading away from an area of great need and sort of hoping that you get something back that's of equal value, and then you're still sort of short on the shot creation end of things. So I think you got to try to trade him. I just don't know if you are going to get what you need by trading him, So going all the way back I guess maybe that's part. If it is true, that might be part of the reason they're not, like, you know, packing his bags for him, because they just like the better like statistical play based on probabilities is to hope that he just is better, you know, which is like, I just don't know how likely that is with with this team. I feel like he's a total change of scenery guy, you know what I mean? Do you have anything different? I think you gotta move him. I just don't know how, And that's the how is the problem, because who would be in the Jordan Pool business. I know a lot of people said Orlando, and I'm just like I kind of rather roll forward with false sugs and Carl Anthony and invest in Jordan Pool. Well, and who wait for Orlando getting the Warriors? Who who are the Warriors getting from Orlando that they you know that they want. Also, it's also a fantastic point. It's just like what if you went after in Oganna Nobi trade that's the one would he interest Toronto? And then it's like, Okay, well you still haven't Ogna will be great fit for the roster, don't get me wrong, but you still haven't fixed the main issue with this team. Then well not the main issue, but one of the issues where now you sacrificed Wooden Furies another layer shot creation because o Giana Nobi's not going to give that to you. Maybe you'd trust Wiggins to provide more of it. I don't know. And then I think when you start to get into some of these names and it might even include o Gianna Nobi, and you have to make the math work there, YadA YadA, YadA. Like the Warriors aren't getting out of that deal giving up just Jordan Pool. No, then you're gonna have to extand inn Andobe next. I mean, well, if he even signs an extension, then you're gonna have his free agency. So like that's Anna and Obi to me is the guy. And I think you would consider pooling cominga which you would not, which would have been unheard of a year ago. But I think just I think there's enough smoke now about certain guys on the Warriors griping about playing time and maybe not being as professional as they need to be to know that, Like it's those two guys and maybe a couple others, and it may just be like past the point of fixing, you know, so I think So if it's pooling cominga for Annonobi, I think next year's team looks really scary, very and awesome. But you don't have a shot creation after Steph like at all, and you can't even might lose Annanobi. You can't swing the sign and trade like duels like have Fred van Fleet involved, because you just can't complete a sign and trade because of your cap situation. Yeah, they're just in such a tough it would be I guess pool and cominga for like, how many other Raptors players do they have to take? Probably if you're not gonna tell, maybe you could take Gary Trent Junior if he opted in, But I'm assuming he's like, you have to take on my Chris Bouchet and I think one other guy to make the math work there there's in such a tough spot. I'm with you. I would move Jordan Pool. I think the most likely outcome though, is that I think I said run. Maybe in the moment, like being on a radio show or podcasts, I'm like, oh, Jordan Pool will be traded. I would trade Jordan Poole. Yeah. I don't think that it's super plausible for you to trade Jordan Pool even and you wouldn't trade You're not at the point where it's, hey, these birds are like, we'll just take him into our cap space. You're not You're You're not at that point, are you? No? I don't think so, because I think you're you're if you're trading him now, you're selling low, but like that's too low because I just you gotta. I mean, you could even he should realize, like going into next year, if you would like to get out of here, you just gotta play better and act, you know, act like you care on defense, and you might just you know, he can rebuild his value that way. It's just it's harder to trade a guy that looks as bad as he looked for in all the games that mattered. I would say too, though, the Nuggets basically played eight guys in the finals more or less. And if you count Pat Gary Payton the second as a sixth guy that the Warriors trust, and then you're just you're two away, you know, if you lose pool here two away? I just and I mean Moody might be there too. Moody might be guy. Yeah, he's into trust. So they's I mean, that's still there's just no big guys even fours Kaminga is the guy that you hope takes a leap, but that I'm starting to feel less confident about that. So should we talk about minimum guys? Do you have any minimum candidates? Well? Had too. What I think are quick questions for you? Do you well? I guess they're the same question I was gonna frame it. So, do you think their biggest acquisition is going to come? Their most noteworthy acquisition will be they signed so and so to a minimum contract or is there a higher chance because now Bob Meyers we talked about this on the previous pod not there anymore. Could like Kirk Lakeub and Mike Dunlevy Junior want to leave their imprint on this roster with themselves and then decide, like, now that Bob Meyers is gone, does it increase or decrease the likelihood that the Warriors make a bigger swing, which would again has to come on the trade market. I would say it increases it just sort of by definition. But both lake Up and Dunleavy or very much part of like a brain trust that was very collaborative with and like Myers influenced, So I would imagine a lot of the thinking is pretty similar. I don't think there's like a you know, it's not like either of those guys is like it just a gun slinging transactor, just like waiting for Meyers to get out of the way, so they could you know, go crazy. So I think it makes it more likely, and I agree that if the Warriors do something of consequence, it sort of has to be via trade because the options for them in terms of signing guys are so as we'll momentarily discuss kind of uninspiring. But I don't feel like if I'm betting on a pool trade, for example, while agreeing with you that they should and I would try, I think it's probably less likely. You know, it's under fifty percent that they trade him, even if it's like the clear move that everyone agrees like should be their priority. So any minimum guys stand out to you that are well, I don't even know if they would be minimum guys, but guys that they could realistically target and hope, sure, I'm doing some barrel scraping here. So George Hill thirty seven, like, just give him one more chance. This is you know, if he can play ten minutes yet fifteen minutes, that's something Aaron Holiday probably is going to get more than the minimum. But he's a younger. It's close, right, it's close. He can make open threes, he's a good on ball defender. He's undersized, but like you're just again, you're just like someone that's not going to kill us in the you know, twelve minutes that Steph doesn't play. Justice Winslow was kind of interesting to me as like a reclamation, you know, the type of guy that like quote unquote knows how to play, wants to pass like that kind of thing. It's sort of also in like the auto porter mold of let's get this guy that has never stayed healthy and hope that we get the healthy season out of him. But other than that, yeah, like you could just go scan the list of guys that are that made the minimum this past season and are hitting free agency, and you know you might just pick and choose because the other thing is the Warriors don't have huge minutes really to offer these guys. All things being equal, you might take the minimum somewhere else if you thought you might get a rotation role that would not be promised. I don't think here, yeah, which is like I thought about would Dario Scharch fall into the minimum rage? I think he was too good for that. O'sheaber set like trying to think of higher end names that might fall into that, and I just without a minute's promise from the Warriors, I don't even know how you can hope for that, And like, yeah, I mean you're scraping the bottom about like do you try? And you know what's like, what's Austin Rivers doing? Like how much this is he cost is that someone who could help. It's gonna be rough. I earned holiday as a good name I didn't think of. And he'll give you some extra rim pressure too, right because because as of just a piggyback on that, Like you just saw Jamichael Green sign a minimum there and then get he granted he had an injury, but Anthony Lamb a Two Wig Guys was playing over him basically all year, and you know, Tied Jerome played a ton as a as a two Wig Guys. So it's like Steve Kerr is not necessarily gonna play the minimum guy that you sign with the expectation of a rotation role. Like that's just not not necessarily a promise. What about Joe Ingles, I think he might go for more than the minimum, but he's someone that you could that's a really I like that because he can run a pick and roll and he can make open shots, and that's like they don't need a whole lot more than that out of it if you're not getting a point guard someone like that. That's why Winslow was kind of interesting, is like maybe you get some shot creation someplace else. Yeah. I like Ingles a lot. I think they take if you said the Warriors got ingles at the minimum. That's about as good as you could hope for. That's very much. Okay, guys thirty five years old. If they say he's gonna play like maybe he thinks he can win a title. I don't know why he thinks they have a better chance than Milwaukee necessarily. But are we ready to move on to the LA Clippers? I think so. Please tell me about their their breakdown. So key free agents, maybe Aaron Gordon, he has a twenty point nine million non guaranteed salary. It guarantees on June twenty eighth. We have to have a discussion about him about whether it makes sense to guarante him, use him as a trade hip. Maybe then Mason Plumley and Russell Westbrook, Who's who's ann bird free agent? So they can only offer him, you know, one hundred and twenty percent bump key extensionaligeable candidates. I won't get into the numbers. I just find it. I wrote it down here because i' found it funny that their extension knowledgeable again, Paul George and Kawain Leonard. It feels like they just signed extensions, so those are their key extensionaledigable candidates big their cap situation, they're above the second apron, they will only have the minimums to offer unless they go on an epic salary dumping spree. Uh. They they typically don't have any notable any notable trade exceptions, but they do have a two point one million one from the Reggie Jackson trade that expires on February ninth. That's not even like the minimum anymore for certain veterans aren't like veterans at like above three on the new cap climate. Biggest needs I have point guard, slash ball handler. They could use another big, someone who spaces the floor at the five, even if they're gonna play bigger or skew smaller. Where are you? What are your what are your thoughts about this team heading into the offseason? I mean, what about John wall Is he available? Could they bring him in at the point man? I love that signing. I thought it made total sense. Last year it did not I would it. I was like they as I found a little bit surprised. They need to use their entire mid level. But you know, he was freshman, he barely played for like three years. That was I bet you they would take him for the mid level this year, just because they don't have the mid level and they might want that back. We gotta start with Eric Gordon because he kind of informs a lot of this. So his his twenty point nine million guarantees on June twenty eighth, So like we're kind of already up against it. We're not gonna It's not the type of thing you can wait till the next league year. Are you thinking you guarantee that and use him as a trade ship to bring back someone that you could get up I don't have the numbers in front of me, but someone make up to twenty four twenty five. Is that roughly what you could expect with that? I that's what I would do. I don't know they're going to do that, because you know, we talk about Steve Bomber being willing to pay anything. But if you're whether you're keeping Eric Gordon or during him into someone who makes as much or a little bit more money, your luxury tax bill is going to be I mean, like through the roof. I think right now there, if they bring back Eric Gordon and don't and don't add anybody, they're looking at like a tax bill that's gonna be like tax and salary, that's gonna be like in the five hundred million dollar range. I think, like it's it's pretty upstre Oh that's with there's the cap holl for Mason Plumbley in there, so it won't be that egregious. But we're talking about a team that's gonna run you, you know, maybe the four fre million dollars range after factoring in the necessary taxes and the player's salary. But if you don't do that, if you let the guarantee day laps or whatever, I just don't know how they build or they add to this roster. I guess you could always just you could trade. I mean, he's not your only salary. But like so I asked, because I'm inclined, I would I would guarantee it, and then I would just would him a view him as a trade chip and they'll use them. I mean, like maybe help you too. Still maybe so maybe so if you were, if you were a little more of a point guard, you might really have your solution. But he just not since his early Clippers days, was there any real hope that that was the case. I'm trying to think of. Like, so if you're retaining Eric Gordon. There's a lot of time to talk about Eric Gordon, but he is like low key kind of important. If you're retaining him as an expiring you know, twenty was it twenty point nine million dollars salary? Where are the teams? So you want to trade him to a team that just wants to cut money or has a bad contract that they're happy to give back that has a couple of years on it. So like I wasn't even I was even thinking, like do you use him and you're attaching stuff to him where you have well we trede a future first, you have the number third, Like is this a team that you've got thirty and forty three or forty eight in this draft? I think thirty and what do they got forty eight? So let's just say John Collins. Not that that's what they need necessarily, but like, if the principles involved are Eric Gordon and John Collins, the Lake the Clippers have to give up? What to sweeten that? Because you are getting Atlanta below the tax which they care about. I think they, well, this is the other thing you gotta you gotta trade him now right. You can't wait till after the guarantee date, because what you want, is the acquiring team is the ability to waive him or to let to not pick up the guarantee, right Like, that's that's the way this works. If you're a team that's acquiring him, to just cut a bunch of money and maybe have like a pick attached or something like that. Is that scenario where you're Collins from Atlanta or like Lowry, you know, from Miami or something something is I think he probably makes too much actually, but something like that. You have to include more money in there. Yeah, I mean that's for sure. I might even just yeah, wouldn't this doesn't he think if you're going to take back that amount of money though, wouldn't he have to be guaranteed? That's the thing I can't. I can never remember the timing of that. You have to trade Hi. Basically he's an expiring contract next season. I don't think it would work. It could work if that team has cap space because you can use his number, but so they need to guarantee his contract if they're going to move him. And ye, but John Collins is the perfect example in theory because it's not just about Okay, you trimmed some salary in the short term, but you're also trimming a bunch of long term salary because Eric and look, maybe Eric Gordon takes a buyout that saves you some money off the top of that. I don't know why you want such a big dead cap number on your books. So my guests would be you have to like Sweeten regardless, and so what would you does Eric Gordon at number thirty get you? John Collins at this point is that I don't know. I mean, that's technically a first. You know that the box couldn't move him for anything. It's hard. I'm just spitballing because I think Gordon is like an interesting piece. If you're looking for ways for the Clippers to do something. They could also trade Norm Powell. They could trade Robert Covington. There's still like Morris is expiring as well. Yeah, there's ways to go, but Gordon seems I don't know, Maybe that's not they have enough. Do they have enough if this team is willing to move him, do they have enough assets to get Miles Turner? They have the expiring money that we assume the look, they could send them a combo forward too, which the Pacers might be interested in they have the number thirty pick. I don't know, if you give they have Terrence Man, they could give up a future first round pick. I'm not sure because I don't know how much expiring money appeals to the to a team like the Pacers, because they're already their books are like looking pretty good going forward. If you had more draft capital, then I think you're probably having a more serious conversation. But I just don't know. Well, it's hard to know because maybe the Pacers want to, you know, be like playing or better status this year, and they're willing to do that. They're willing to take on some veterans. The expiring is like a nice bonus factor. Yeah, I don't know what about Chris Paul, Like there's all this stuff like could they like Powell and Morrison Linington or Powell and Coving, Like is there is that like two pie in the sky. I mean I think that's a possibility too. Yeah, yeah, I guess that would make sense for them. You want to have a point guard. I think it's obviously makes a lot more sense if he was waived and you were picking him up at the minimum. But sure, yeah, I had to fit with Kawai and Paul George. I go back and forth. Because Chris Paul is so ball dominant, you don't necessarily want that. And even when Russell Westbrook was on the court with those guys, there was some iffiness. But like Chris Paul is technically a better shooter. He shot like fifty percent on catching shoot threes this year, he just didn't take many of them, and that fell off a cliff in the playoffs. I'm also of the mind it at this point, it's, well, can you count on both Kawai and Paul George being available enough that you have to worry about the awkwardness of that fit? And the answers, no, No, you cannot if you don't have think you have any draft equity. I consider it, especially for Phoenix as a team, and we'll get to them, like they clearly want to just break up Chris Paul and or deandret and into multiple contracts. So yeah, that's an I didn't think about them as a trade candidate for CP three, but that actually, if you're looking for someone to take on his full salary, I could see it. That's not a bad idea. You mentioned Westbrook, like, so they don't have bird rights, so basically they can offer him. I've seen different numbers, but three point eight is the highest I've seen, which is not gonna cut it, probably compared to what he might get from who knows where else. That's just like so low they should do. Should they want him back at three eight, because I think they should. Yeah. Absolutely. What are the odds they get him back? I don't know, because if he signs resigns with them, I know he wanted to be in LA still after leaving the Lakers, but you would have to think it would be a with Whom Jackson situation where there was the wink wink agreement of we're gonna just resign you to a bigger deal with early bird rights next year, and that would give me like a little bit of pause if I'm a Clippers fan at least. But he was good for them, and just like he gave him some rim pressure, the turnovers remained out of control. Sometimes he was hitting his threes. He played really well defensively in the playoffs. But I would I would like to say that not every game is gonna be against Kevin Durant to where he has that sort of revenge juice flowing, but you should ask for what you can pay him. You should absolutely want him back just for the innings that he can eat up for you. When Kawai and or Paul Georgia had it a lot I did. I filed today a piece on landing spots the top free agents should avoid, And for Westbrook, it's everywhere but the Clippers, just because like that, Like, he's been on five teams in five years and everyone has soured on him more or less. And this is the only place you've been in a half a decade where they're like, we are into the Russell Westbrook experience. Let's have more of this, Like and you're in LA he should right. I mean, you don't want to count the guy's money, but he's made plenty of it. I think like it makes sense for him because he's gonna have a role and it seems like the team actually values what he does, which, like literally anywhere else that may not be the case. And this is all assumes he plays like he did for most of his stretch there, which is a big if. Like, you know, that's probably probably naive to think that he's gonna you know, defend and move the ball as well. As he did, but still he should want to be there. Is there? I don't want to spend too much time on this, but before we get into minimum targets, is there any chance whatsoever that the Clippers go in the complete opposite direction that everyone's thinking, and maybe there's some selling magic going on here? The ANSWER's no, right, I don't think so. They don't they have a new arena to open. Yeah, I think that's the twenty twenty four. You want Kauai and point you want? This seem to be good at least for that, And so anyone who's like fantasizing about Paul George and Kwai trades, I can't even I can't even fathom what I would give up for Kawhi Leonard At this point, it could be hard to evaluate. Are there any minimum guys that stand out to you for this team? I have a couple. If you want me to start it off, yeah, go ahead. I got a couple too, but they're very minimum. I don't know this is ambitious. Some of these are ambitious. I have Dennis Shrewder. I feel like he might have played his way out of minimum territory. Ditto for Bismack Beyondo if you wanted to kind of fortify the front court. My guess is that they're kind of just looking at a you know, bottom of the barrel that is like or closer to the bottom of the barrel than those guys. So could you go you're looking for size like and Alex lenn or if you want size that gives you four spacing? Do you are you the team that tries to, you know, roll the dice again on Myers Leonard looking at like the point guard situation is just I don't know if you can't get rushed back. Do you assuming his team option gets declined, do you take a look at Derek Rose? What is Gorn Dragic gonna get this offseason? I would assume he would still kind of be in minimum territory. Do you try and you know, rejuvenate Kemba Walker's knees? Like, didn't I didn't even think about him. You know, it's bad when you scroll down the list of free Asian point guards and you're like, oh, Reggie Jackson, that's not bad. Go wait, wait a second, that is bad, and that's why he's not there anymore. I was convinced for a moment, by the way, when I had Kemba's name circle. I'm like, wait, did you already play for the Cliff? I think, like Corey Joseph, you know, are we are we in a tie? Jerome something he can score a little bit, like, I mean, we're talking guys that were on two ways. If we haven't mentioned DJ Augustine yet, it's a time for DJ Augustine third renaissance. No, I don't know. I think point guard has to be it. I just like they've run through so many it's like we're going back to the Patrick Beverley. Well, he's probably getting more than the minimum anyway, Javon Carter, if he declines his player option, he's getting more than the minimum. I'm sure getting more than the minimum. Yeah, Junior might be getting more than the minimum too. That's not something then afford anymore either after this season. He just had I agree. Yeah, I mean there's I don't know where you go hell netto like that's a third stringer that you're gonna play it as a starter or I guess behind Russ. I don't know if we're assuming Russ is back, I guess that's probably more palatable. But yeah, Derrick Rose is interesting, Like you said, but it's, uh, we're scraping the barrel here. For we started out with the two like most apped out, taxed out teams that just can't sign anybody. I would say, I think there's probably a greater than sixty percent chance that they end up trading a first round pick attached to some salary to make an immediate upgrade before the season starts. I think, well, can they do anything in me, I'm gonna put you on the spot, like that can get them back their mini mid level? Are they just way too far gone for that? Like not even close? Right? So let's so if we let's assume that part of that then would involved they'll get rid of Eric Gordon. Uh mind, Yeah, I'm on the wrong team. I'm like, oh, wait, they they could get there if well, I guess Gordon's is not. So I have them at one eighty three million is without plumbly, Yeah, without no plumbly And so you're already over So yeah, you could dump to open up the you you could dump, but I just that's a if. So to lose Mason Plumbly, Eric Gordon and then player x Y, who's the mini mid level getting you? That? It's is that all to keep ros right, because then because you're talking, it's got to be Batum or Covington. You wouldn't do it with for zubots Martin, for mark Is Morris. But I don't know, like what the but the A lot of your MIDI mid level worth more like not even close. Yeah, no, so I don't I don't think they would do that, okaying out on them? No, that's it for me on them. Shall I take us through the Lakers here? Yes, sir, all right? Key free agents Austin Reeves. That's gonna be a fascinating one. I think DeAngelo Russell unrestricted, Malik Beasley, there's a they got a team option on him. Lonnie Walker the fourth, probably losing him. Non bird rights there, Rue Hotchemer has restricted Dennis Shrewder we talked about. They have non bird rights there. Mo Bamba non guaranteed, probably not bringing him back. I wouldn't think Jared Vanderbilt, also non guaranteed, would be very surprised if they did not bring him back. Not only real extension U candidates here that are realistic. I suppose. I think maybe Anthony Davis might be eligible for one, but I don't think that's happening. So they've got a trade exception two point nine million for Patrick Beverly and Damien Jones. I'm not sure. I'm looking at your dock. Not important there, but they kind of overlap. I guess that makes sense because they were in the same trade. What do they need it? Everything depends because you don't know which route the Lakers are gonna go. Are they going to renounce all their guys and sign a star or are they gonna bring everybody back, which would make their needs like far fewer, I guess, but two way wings always help. Might need a point guard assuming they lose Shrewder, and they could always use some shooting. This was a team that when it struggled in the playoffs, the offense was the problem. So you might want to just skew all of your free agent and trade speculation towards guys that are going to chuse the offense and you can just trust Davis and whichever of the core remains to defend there. I'm seeing what I did to you with my doc now where I have Patrick Beverly Damien Jones listays their best spending tools. Well, they're both trade exceptions, but they looked like a copy and paste because they're both two point nine million and they expire the same day. But that makes sense when you're traded in the same deal. Yeah, and their cap you've described it as their cap situation is just it's fluid, so like their best spending tool. Might it's gonna be probably the mini mid level would be my guest, just because I think you bring back everybody, but if they wanted to, Yeah, you can keep Vanderbilt reeves his cap hold and get to like renounce everybody else, wave mo bamba and you can get to like dirty million in cap space. I just don't know what who that's getting you. Who is then worth obliterating all of your depth? I do wonder, though, does D'Angel Russell's performance in the playoffs make it any more likely that they explore it? And even Molik Beasley, because I think a lot of people now believe they're going to decline his team option, which everyone thought. I know, I was wondering, do you just pick it up? Do you guarantee Obama just to have that salary to use as a as a trade. I still just fall on the side of they value ruey. I don't think you could just let D'Angel Russell walk, and so I think they're going to be operating as an over the cap team. I think they sort of have to some of the same logic we talked about with the Clippers of is it worth giving up X, Y and Z to get this one piece? And it's like, I just this is much. This is a much higher stakes version of that, because you're talking about like you I can't remember if you said it on this pot or the last one, but anyway, they won seventy percent of their games after the break. They have the second best record in the league. Bringing the bringing this whole thing back or as much as you can realistically giving some of the non bird stuff they have on some guys seems like the play. But then there's Kyrie Irving, even though the Lakers have tried to like speak that out of existence for you know, several weeks, or sign and trade for Van Vleid or whatever, there's like, there's other options out there. I just think I think the move is you bring back as much of this core as you can and hope that the tax pyramid level gets you another guy that you can play, you know, big minutes in the playoffs, right like that's otherwise it's just you're giving up too much. And even again then like even sign and trades just limit you because then you're then you're hardcapped. And that's even the same thing where it's like, Okay, maybe you get to a point where you could spend your non tax payramidlevel exception, but there's a chance that if you complete design in trade, it comes at the expense of, well, we can't use our MIDI level exception because we're hard captain. Way too close there, I'm with you, and so just use the mini eml E. And by the way, which is like they should be fine with it, but if they wanted to bring back everybody, like if you guarantee Molik Beasley's deal, and I guess let's just say you get rid of Bamba, but like, depending on how much it costs to keep Austin Reeves, DeAngelo Russell, Ruey Hachimura, you're running into the apron concerns anyway, And so there's like I still think they should be able to access the mini emil E. There's a chance though that if you want to bring back everybody that you can't even do that. So I are there any like and I don't know. First of all, I don't know who the de'angelo Russell suitor would be that comes in and outbids of Lakers for him, and I would expect Ruey to be back. Austin Reeves is interesting because he can get that four year deal. That's basically it would be like poison pilled set up where it's it's a little over one hundred million, I think at this point is what it scales too. I think they would match that, so I don't even think we need to. Well, is there a team that you could see coming in and forcing the Lakers to go matching that offer? I think there's probably a couple, right, I think there's a lot of teams. I was like, I was gonna well, I feel like I know your answer now, but I wasn't gonna ask you, like, do you have any hesitation about matching the four for ninety eight or four for one on one that he's I think it's gonna get. You have to average it out, and that's twenty five million a year for who's clearly a starting level rotation player on your team. Yes, I don't have hesitation, but it's a lot of money depending on how you I think you get the option of how you want to spread it out, like you need to. You need to divvy that up so that you're not working with like a thirty five million dollars capit in year because his max salary in the first year of the third year is the poison pill, which would be the first year that the max salary kicks in. Right, Yeah, it's like thirty six I have right here. It's thirty six point nine million estimate to be at right now, that's wild. Thirty six point nine million is gonna be the twenty five percent max in a couple of years. We've come so far, so I think I think they match it. It really to me is just can they make moves on the trade market with something. That's why you would keep Beasley and Bomb I think, or you can hope that, oh it's D'Angel Russell kind of tradeable once his restrictions are up in the middle of next year. I actually don't think. I feel like people are maybe over complicating this offseason for them a little bit to where it's just they don't really have all these options because the cap space isn't even gonna get you Kyrie you'd have to do a sign and trade there that's gonna completely emaciate your depth. And it's just like you're gonna bring everyone back. You don't even have the well not everyone, because Lonnie Walker is gonna leave. He's a non bird free agent. You don't even have the mid end salaries to be like, hey, we're gonna trade number seventeen like attach it to someone. And that's why in theory, you would bring back Beasley at the sixteen plus million or bomba because it's okay, well, what can number seventeen and this money get up? I think that's probably the biggest move the Lakers end up making. That might get you Collins. If we're gonna you know, like if you had roughly twenty seven twenty six, if you're combining Beasley and or more than that, Yeah, twenty six ish and number seventeen, it's not bad. You know, you threw the Hawks are taking on money in that deal though, which they don't want to do, so well, then maybe they work a buyout or something, work buyouts or something. Yeah, I don't know. I keep just trying to find ways to get the Hawks on. But you're right, that's like I would think that. I bet you Lakers fans would be like, I absolutely do not want I'm not gonna get number seventeen for John Collins. That's my bet. Okay, I think I probably would because I still think John Collins is really good. Yeah, but well, I don't know about really good. But he's a good buy low right now, even though he makes twenty five I have faith. Can I ask you d'angela Russell question, Yeah, what are you as the Lakers comfortable with paying him years and dollars, Whether you've view him as like he's gonna be our starting point guard, or this is a number we can trade him for a neutral value APT I think it's like four for one oh four, like twenty six nine a year or something like that. I was pretty high on the acquisition, but after watching him, I don't know if it's okay. It's a different if he goes through a training camp and has more practice time. But I eviscerated the Wolves for there my content trap. I was just I was so wrong on that front, and knowing how he fell out of favor during the highest stakes moments in the playoffs, that changes my calculus. But you're kind of in you're kind of in the bird right trap with him anyway, because who are you gonna get? I guess if you think Dennis Shrewder would come back for the minimid level and you're just content to roll on. But like Deanzel Russell was kind of the like the main centerpiece of that trade that you I mean, Jared Vanderbilt was good, you were I thought Malik Beasley shooting was actually going to translate, but like that was the oh okay, Like look at what Deanzel Russell could do is a like pick and roll player and someone who's gonna space the floor and look how young he is, and he'll alleviate some of the ball handling responsibilities for Ron and for that to just be where we're at now, I don't know. If it's over twenty six million a year, I start to get a little queasy. I agree. I don't know if we talked about this, but there was the report at some point before the Lakers were eliminated where there was talk of maybe they'll maybe we'll bring him off the bench, and it was essentially like they don't want to do that because they're concerned they're going to lose him. You know, like he's gonna check out and we're in the middle of the conference I think it was a conference finals or about what it was late in the playoffs when when this report came out. And I was already sort of out on Russell as like a true star. But that was like that did it? Like you're really like, this is a concern you have with your starting point guard in a deep playoff series that if we have to make a tactical switch for the good of the team, he's gonna like opt out of giving a shit like that. That's like, I mean, that's wild. Now, granted, you have to preserve the asset, so I do think you can't let him leave. It's not like, well we're done with this guy. You need to preserve that twenty to thirty million dollars you know, salary slot basically. But man, I just I'm not sure how you recover from that, Like if that's true, like with your teammates, with the certainly the fans, like he's gonna have to make a ton of you know, timely threes to like offset that type of thing. It was a small report. I'm probably making more of it than it deserves. But like That's such a telling thing for a guy that ill tale where they're afraid of losing like that was. That was pretty telltale. A big deal. Yeah, so I agree, you gotta have them back, but there are definitely numbers I would be real uncomfortable with. But even years, like I don't know if I want four, like two in an option, great, like that's tradeable, we could do that. I don't know. I'm trying to even think. Is there for some reason if Kyrie left for Houston, maybe you could sign and trade Danzel Russell to Dallas because they would be just so hard up for anything at that point. But I was trying to figure out because the Lakers could very easily sign and trade him somewhere. I'm just like, what team is going to you know, Like I thought about Chicago for a minute and then I stopped thinking about Chicago after that. Get back? What's that? Get Caruso back? I don't think, Yeah, I would be shocked or even got that much. I just I don't know what, Like, what is the team that would like consider rolling you? Would you sign and trade him for Kyle Lowry if that was something that Heat wanted to do. I think the Heat if it would not touch the Angelo Russell, Okay, I think he is like the anti heat culture player was be my assessment there, And I'm like, Orlando, can you do or like, anytime you talk about guards, we have to talk about Orlando's not touching him. They don't want him. Yeah, Like there's no I mean, then you talk about caps, I just I don't know. I mean the thing is like, is one of these caps space teams interested at a number that the Lakers would have to walk away at and sign, you know, sign and trades not on the table, Like it's hard to see San Antonio, Indiana, Houston. I mean Houston talk used is a wild card, but there's no way. There's no way. Yeah, Utah doesn't feel like a great fit. Yeah, I don't know. So I think we'll be back. Let's play let's play this game man with the Lakers. Where will they be back next season, D'Angelo Russell, I think so. Malie Beasley, m M yeah, Mo Bamba, he's my least likely to be back. I think if they do decide, even though that salary slot matters, I think probably he's he's got a full non guarantee at the end of this month, So I think I'd say I'd say, no, I gotta pick somebody to not be back. Lonnie Walker the fourth also not back. What do you remember what the numbers are on him? They can't either have non bird or partial bird on him. They have the number. So the biggest salary that they could offer him to start next year is like seven point eight million, which basically like the minimid level at that point. That might even be less than the minimated level. I haven't seen a lot of sites have like, I don't know whatever it's seven point eight million dollars or the mini more of them. I think you could get multi yeared stuff from somewhere that the Lakers might not be interested in. Jared Vanderbilt, he's got to be back. Yeah, they only topics if they trade him, because if they waved him, that would be an all time flub. Troy Brown Junior, Uh one point nine? Is this cap hold? I'd say I'd say probably not. He wasn't playing much, right Wynan Gabriel, M Probably not. I think you just go find a minimum guy. Austin Reeves. I think he'll be back, Yeah, I think he'll be making twenty five million a year. On average. Are there any like free agents you've thought about for them that stand out that could fall into the mini mL E range for them? Yeah, I mean some of them are a little ambitious, like Gabe Vincent. I think he probably gets more than the mini Truder has to be one of them. I didn't even name him, right, you think he's back like that might have to be a minimlo, he candidated at this point, well, with the promise of more potentially because he's gonna have a decent number of offers. Oh you think, well, I just have. I just remember thinking during the playoffs, like we I think we talked about this, like with the Hawks. He was just such a spark plug offensive player when he was younger, and then suddenly he's like, they're one of their best on ball defenders. For the Lakers, It's like, if you could get like the combination of those two things, that guy can play like he's he's a useful piece. I actually would be surprised if he got more than the mini Emli. Yeah, you're probably right. Would you use your minimli on him? If you're the Lakers? I think he might be And this I'm sorry to interject on that I just forgot to tell him in that last exercise. But if you're going through the players that they could maybe target, I'm like, he might be the best guy that they could get with that tool. Do you think you could get Seth Curry for the mini minim emili? I think he just made eight coming off last year, and so they think it probably could because he has the injury concerns from last year at a bunch of them, and also he just wasn't even in right and that's rotation basically after the KD trade. But if you want someone to just I mean, the best version of him is gonna provide you spacing like few other guys you know, So if it's like him or Shrewder, but do you yeah, By the thing is, do you want that in another smaller player who's not going to play a ton of defense like you very much need wings if you're gonna skew offense only? I think if you bring Russell back, someone like Curry makes way less sense. That's a great point because they're you know you you certainly can't play them together against any half decent playoff lineup. I don't think Devincenzo I said what about Nikuil Alexander Walker. I'm putting him everywhere because I think he's one of those guys I keep. He's my he's my like buy low Darling of the I don't know if you're really buying low because he's had some moments, uh in the playoffs, but uh, that's someone I'm just like, I would like some stock, please if I can get some. I just don't know if I want him on that team with Like, what would his role be if you have D'Angel Russell. That's another guy where it's okay if it's Shrewder if Russell's gone, and you're gonna be able to get shrewd. And but even Nikill Tanner Walker, he's a restricted free agent two, so that just makes it it's king complicated. Yeah. I mean, if I'm the Wolves, I don't think I let him get away because of the defense that he showed in splashes, like just as an on wall stopper, and then he's become a good shooter and he's not you know, he's toned down some of his life. He was one of the most unabashed chuckers like I've ever seen early in his career, and he's toned that down, but yeah, that's all I got for them. I mean, what about the bigger options too, We said Kyrie's unlikely, someone like Van Vleet unlikely. You know, I think you have to look at the mini MLI as their best you know option. Yeah, and that's like I thought about Tory, Craig, Joe and McDaniels for this team, like just trying to get some wing type players. Yeah, in here I thought about Jay Crowder for a hot minute, but I feel like that won't go over well with him and Lebron, Like, could they be a team that's like does Danny Green? Like, is he still gonna be playing to you? Just get him to have Danny greenback on your team and he was there when you won a title last They're just the mini Emily options feel like they're very much wearing thin And I don't even like, I think, to bring this back to my initial point, I think Dennis Truer might be the best player that they could realistically get with that many MLI. I mean, even like a Trey Lyles would be kind of interesting for this team. Yeah, some diversification on the front line, that's another name. Yeah, I don't hate that. I think. Where did I try to send him recently? What was my I forget we talked about this. I was trying to get him. Oh, I think Philly. I think I wanted him to Trey Lyles and Dante de Vincenzo. Right, was that the name you paired him with? Somebody? Yeah? Do you have anything else on the Lakers? Nope? That's all I got? Shall I take us through the Suns? Bring it all? Right? So key free agents? Maybe you've heard Chris Paul, which is not as simple as just being a free agent. Yeah, so he's just yeah, just put a pin in that. We'll talk about Chris Paul, Plenty, Josh Akogi, Tory, Craig Bismack, Bambo Jack Landale campaign has a non guarantee or partial guarantee. I think two and a half of his six and a half is guaranteed. No real extension. Eligible candidates, their cap situation and spending options are very fluid. It depends on what happens with Chris Paul, how they if they wave him, how they wave him, if they trade him, all kinds of stuff there, there's the DeAndre eight and trade potential. I think that we should probably discuss as well. That could affect what their options are. If they do bring everybody back, they're a second Apron team most likely, because that involved guaranteeing all of Chris Paul's thirty point eight, and you'd have Aiden's thirty two point five on there. There are ways to unlock the mid level depending on how they handle Chris Paul. The mini mid level may be there too, depending on how they wave him. There are I think there are ways. You've got a trade exception for Darius Arch for five million bucks. I'm trying to think what else sort of asset wise and table setting wise to hit here. I think they can get if you if you wave all pain and Ish Wainwright was I think as a team option, so you not wave him but basically get rid of him. That's another way to get the full mL. I think it would be super close. But yeah, so what do they need depth they have? You know that crushed them in the playoffs. Duran and Booker just couldn't play fifty minutes a night, it turns out, and be effective wing defenders. This is a team that you could sort of pick and choose almost anything in terms of like what they need to fill out the roster beyond their top four guys or maybe top two, depending on what they do with their third and fourth best players. So can you If you can't, we can work collaboratively on this. Take us through the Chris Paul sort of options, like what what could this look like for the Suns with respect to waving him, waving and stretching trading, like what what are what's our sort of choose your own adventure set of options here? So I think if you wave CP three, which is just your are paying him the fifteen point eight million, and you're taking that dead cap it, you're not stretching it, you can open up the mini mL And some people speculated that if you do that, you could then use it on CP three to bring him back at the lower number, And it's like, well, then you've kind of scuttled your best spending tool on keeping the same player just to save right. In general, I can't see them going that route. I just don't see what the sense would be behind it. You also mentioned that you could wave him, get rid of campaign, get rid of fish rain right, and you might be able to open up the bigger mLAN. At that point, it's like, well, what are we doing. You're taking out two rotation players. If you're gonna get rid of him and it's not happening via trade, I believe waiving and stretching him because you can stretch him over five years. I got this wrong on the podcast because I forgot he had that second non guaranteed year. You can get the bi annual and then the full mid level. And so if you think, you know, and this will step on the toes of we probably won't even need to do like formal free agent targets for this team because they'll be talked about this scenario. But if that gets you Bruce Brown and then someone you use your bi annual on, do you think that's worth it to give up CP three? And I just I don't know, man, because you're weighing that, sorry to cut you off, you're weighing that against trade. What you might get in trade for Chris Paul. It's, you know, like that's another avenue you could extract assets from him. I would say, though, if you're the problem is that because they don't have any other assets to attach to Chris Paul. That thirty point eight million dollars number is we talked about the Clippers as maybe a team that would be open to it. Who are the teams that would be open to it? And a lot of those teams, who are the teams that are won open to paying him the full boat? And then two they're sending you back two or three players to do it rather than just this one lump sum contract that you're gonna have less of an interest in. And it's just like if Kyrie left Dallas, would they do Tim Hardaway Junior and Maxi Kleiba for Chris Paul? And I don't I don't know that they would. They might want Thomas Burton's and are instead, And if I'm Phoenix, I don't want to do that. Chris Paul is still the way I look at this. Chris Paul is. So it's still good and I think important to what the Suns can do. But they are so top heavy with their salaries that they have to explore breaking him and DeAndre Atan up into these smaller contracts. It's just so complicated because I think you look at DeAndre Aton, who's owed three years and one hundred plus million, he's going to be the better asset, I think because he's younger. Yeah, but like Chris Paul is by far, like he Isn't he a more valuable player right now? Maybe not by far, but like DeAndre Eton's season was that upside fucking down. I think the what gives Paul the edge is that you would not have a real hard time finding a center like that's eighty percent as productive as eightan is for five million dollars, you know, grateful you could not find a player that is eighty percent as good as Chris Paul for five million dollars. Like that's just it's just the demands of the position and the scarcity of the type of talent that Chris Paul is. Like it sounds crazy. Will may disagree, but I'm I am with you. I think Chris Paul is the guy that you know has just more value right now. Now you start talking about like you know, he does have another I forget what the particulars are on his twenty four twenty five. I think it's isn't fully non guaranteed? Yeah, it's fully Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of intriguing. But yeah, anyway, sorry I jumped in there. Yeah. So let me ask you though, because this is on the same topic, if you could split Paul or eighton into like two and a half rotation players, which one makes more sense to go that route with? Ah, I think it's Eighten. I think you're right, just because maybe I'm just waging too much. I think that you can trade eight and on his own and maybe get more and so with Paul, I just don't see the like. I don't like I could see teams to be interested in Paul, like even let's use the like if the Heat want him as an example, they're gonna try and send you, I guess Duncan Robinson and Victor Oladipot does that count? Is breaking it up enough? Or are they going to try and send you Kyle Lowry in which case that's just the one lump sum player the Clippers. I guess we talked about it between Roco and I don't think they would give up a tune, but having Marcus Morris that would be super awkward seeing him back in Phoenix anyway, So do you rule him out Eric Gordon's salary? Of course? Yeah, I do. You think it's eighten too, So it's as I'm thinking about it more, it's like, I think I think Paul is more valuable to the Clippers, I mean, to the to the Suns, but Aten could would have more value on the market. So it's like, you know what I mean is that are those two ideas are like very much opposed to each other. So I think Aten would be more likely to get you the pieces that you would want, which is also the reason you should trade him instead of Paul, because I think Paul just matters more to the Sons, like you know, because of the role that he plays and all the stuff I mentioned before. So I think you move Eiden if you got to move on, I think Aton is your first choice. Plus you still, you know, you don't want to overlook the fact that you have all these other options for dealing with Paul and his contract and stuff that doesn't involve the trade. I'm just trying to think though of like the DeAndre and trade market itself. We've already established that the Pacers wouldn't trade Turner straight up for him? Would the Spurs trade Kelton Johnson for DeAndre ayten? Oh? Well, is women Yama the four? I guess maybe? I mean, I I don't know, Kelton Johnson's deal is so much better, but Aden's probably a better player than Keldon Johnson, I think, or at least the best version of Aiden I think is better. And I'm gonna need, you know what, I might need more than just Kelton Johnson if I'm the Sons, and I don't know if the Spurs is willing to do that, you know, I mean you could be Kelton Johnson and Zach Collins could be like the deal. Yeah, that's kind of fun. I kind of like that for the Sons a little bit. I thought about like Dallas with number ten, Tim Hardaway Junior and then it's Davis Burton's or Maxi Kleiba. I think you would fight like helldon get not actually clel. But but I don't know if the Suns are gonna want Thomas Barton's No, Yeah, let's see where how can you where can you move Aiden? Are there any of the cap Space teams that you could that is not gonna want him? Indie again, they have Miles Turner, They're already Detroit has enough bigs. I think you never know with them. Houston they got Singoon, I mean they're not and Jabari Smith Junior. Yeah, yeah, because I would I wouldn't mind someone like, you know, Jayshon Tad and like and Ortari Eason on the Suns, that would be fun, Like why are you acquiring DeAndre Aden when you have Shingoon and you're probably gonna in the center too. We know Brooklyn's not interested in him because he didn't even come up, And like the Kevin Durant they have Nick Claxton. That's tough. I don't know where you but would you agree that what what what percentage odds would you put on Eton being traded this offseason? Oh? Man, I kind of feel like I don't. I kind of feel like he's not going to be traded because it involves selling too low on him. And Vocal came in and was already kind of talking about how excited he is to coach him and there is a higher end outcome where it's maybe you reboot his value and then moved like we've seen him be the co anchor of a defense that reached the NBA Finals not too long ago. Yeah, and this is this someone who just got paid and was satisfied and then slipped off as the year went on. This season, Oh, he had like some higher peaks in the middle and then sort of fell off. I think he's young enough to where you can hope that he'll rebound. I don't think he's gonna get traded. What about you? I would have felt better about saying over fifty percent before we just went through like a third of the league and said no, no, no, no no. So yeah, I think I agree. I still think he's the guy you should try to trade because in theory, he has more value than Paul I guess, but I'm sort of feeling like I need to walk that back, Like I just don't see where the clear the clear trade is. I think there's a better Like you're not trading Chris Paul and getting Keldon Johnson would be like there's maybe a chance that you could trade DeAndre and you get a package of like, oh, number ten, Tim Hard. You're not getting that package for Chris Paul. Would you trade? Would you trade it into the Wizards for Porzingis? Well, then so you're just saying, Okay, we value Porzingis is floor spacing, rim protection, healthy down because you're the number is going to be the same, Like KP's technically making more than him when you look at his player option. Yeah, would I do it? What's that? Don't I don't know? That mean I feel like that'd be a fun trade. I feel just like, man, you talk about a frail front line looking like look how skinny, like you know string Beanie at KP and Kevin Durant would be you would would you do that deal? I don't know. I just I doubt it because the injury history with Porzingis and this is like assuming he probably is just opting in and then you have his free agency coming up, so you're just getting off money potentially if you don't keep him. You do have to keep ish Wayne Right on the roster if you have Durant and Porzingis as you're four five, because you just need to just have a larger average body with on the team. And Right would take care of that because he's the widest human in the NBA. So we think Deandretan's back in Phoenix next year to start at least. Yeah, do you think Chris Paul is That's such a hard question. Do I think Chris paul is back? Or here's the here's the pre is there is there a scenario like if it's I'm trying to think of who would they could even get for the bi annual. But like if you signed let's just say, is Bruce Brown, and man, oh god, this is this is so tough. Is Bruce Brown? And I'm trying to be like fairly ambitious Bruce Brown, plus who is worth waving and stretching Chris Paul and the who has to be bi annual exception guys, Bruce Brown's got to be the mid level guy, right, Oh yeah, yeah, you're not getting Bruce Brown for the bi annual. I mean probably no. Let's say, okay, Bruce Brown and Dennis Shrewder is like the end outcome, and that's like, I don't even think Suns fan would want Dennis Shrewder on a team that has campaign, but like that might be. I don't even he might get more than the biannual. So I'm just like, I'm just trying to map out the scenario where it makes sense to wave and stretch Chris Paul to where you're getting enough back and like, yeah, no, this made it. This made a bunch of sense. The only way it makes sense, And we just talked about how you basically cannot do this is if you waved and stretched him and somehow got off of Aton's contract for nothing, you know, for like picks or something, because then you have way more flexibility, you'll have the fullman level, You'll have you know, cap space that I can't calculate because I just made this up right now, But that's not gonna happen. So yeah, I guess he's on the team, right, Maybe it's at a reduced salary. Maybe they do do the weird I don't. But if they stretch him though, they can't resign it, it's like, or what about Bruce Brown and Josh Richardson? Is that enough to be like, hey, we wave, we waved stretched Chris Paul and that's that made sense? Probably not right, I don't think so. I don't wait you though, So that means then that the way forward is all four of the main principles are back and you're just hoping to hit on minimums. Is that where we are? And well, because they could, can they access the mini mL as currently constructed. I've been considering all their their cap scenarios in my head and sheets are all over the place. But it'd be tight. But if they bring back Chris Paul, no way, they're at one seventy one one. Yeah, but that's if you keep campaign, which they probably will. So they could maybe use They could use it. It would be it would be tight, but they have to stay under one seventy nine and a half. It'd be tight. Yeah, you know what they could they could use it. They'd have to fail to rest the roster with minimums. But like, and look that gets a little bit weird because they kind of need business bembo and do they want to bring back a T. J. Warren or whatever? But like, if they could get a Josherson for the mini mL E, I would do it, Like I would, Yeah, well, I think he's worth the minimally and then Shrewder, I think we both agree, Mike. I mean he's probably getting more than him. Right, You've got and in this scenario, you have pain back I think too, because if you cut him loose, you're still paying two million of his six point five. So it's like, I don't know. And if you're looking like back in the minimums for this team, uh, like what what does you to want you to want an abby go for this offseason? Javonte Green coming off the knee injury, that's a pretty valuable player. Uh, and you could talk about Josha Kogi get him back, Damian Lee, like or with those guys come back. But man, it just gets it gets so tough. I don't mean like I would think wants an abbies earned more than a minimum. I mean you never probably, but like that would be if you could get him for the minimum, you would feel pretty darn good about it. Yeah, for sure, I think so form or no I would, I would. Crowder seems like a minimum guy now, right, like if he's if he's lucky at this point, don't you think you think he's a you think Jake Crowder is a mini emil E like seven, you pay him seven a year. I would just be shocked if he went for like he has to be at least a bi annual guy or something. Right, No, he just didn't play. And then I feel like the whole I think the way he handled the Phoenix exit is like there be a some percentage of executives that are just we're out of the Jake Crowder business. But the mini mL E contracts are so short term now like the back of two years that it's just like I think he gets it. Let's let's keep track of this over over under seven minute, over under full miniml E for Jake Crowder I'm saying under you could say over all, right. I'll note that I did have Josh Richardson as a mini mL E candidate for the Suns where they if they're able to use it. Strus Uh is another guy that I wouldn't mind there if, but I think Strus probably is going to price himself out of that. I think you get your stretch and waving, Chris Paul, But yeah, what give me on the Suns are gonna so of the team, Well, there are a lot of teams that are gonna have interesting off seasons in this conference. We still have one left, but the Suns are right up there. Considering they've already like cannonballed into the news cycle in mid in early June, that's pretty amazing. I don't think they're going to decline his team option, and this is a deep cut, but Lyndy Waters the third would be interesting in Phoenix as just sort of this motion shooter who might be better than Landry Shammitt at this point. So that is that a minimum guy. Though. I don't think the Okasey's declining his team option, but I had him circled for a couple of teams that needed shooting. I don't. It's Seth Curry's not a minimum guy, right, And they also I feel like they need a little bit more size. Yeah, I mean I'm thinking like I'm just looking down here, like there's like the Cavs. I was looking at Lamar Stevens just as like a replacement for an Okogee type or Waynewright type. But I mean the Calves have one point a million dollar team option. They'll take a friar on Daddy is young when the after the Raptors presumably wave him. Yeah, that make that's one that makes sense because you just bring in a veteran that you know could maybe give you some minutes at the five behind eight. And if you don't manage to bring back you know, their Landale and the Byambo, the Landale Beymbo one two punch that people will remember for years. So there's and it makes it so tough for we don't know they're spending range. I think they're gonna end up like I think they're just gonna end up using in the mini Emly or it'll and anything they do, it'll happen via trade, Like Chris Paul is back unless he's moved via trade. Because I just don't see the scenario you come off super cheap if it ends up being to me waving and stretching Chris Paul to sign use the bi annual in the mid level. Okay, great. I just don't know that the sum of those acquisitions are going to be as valuable as Chris Paul. Yeah. I think that's right. I think we've got a lot of those scenarios so far. Of the it's just not worth it to do this with player X because you can't, you know, recoup that value with other guys. The Kings here, Yeah, I don't know how did this turn into we did the Atlantic Division in such like a swift page? What the hell happened? All right, we'll do the Kings quickly. There's not that much here. Yeah, so the Kings. But they do have cap space if they want though, So that's that's super fun. The Kings offseason vitals key free agents Harrison Barnes, Trey Lyles, who they have early bird rights on, Alex len He of random playoff minutes, and Terrence Davis extens knowligible candidates dearon Fox is actually extension knowligible, but I don't think he's gonna sign a two year extension, so that doesn't matter Domasa bonus four years in one hundred and twenty nine point eight million, he would be eligible for it. We definitely should get into that whether he would sign it, you offer it, would he sign it? Uh. Their cap situation, they get to twenty plus million in the room if they renounce everybody including Barns. They also have like if you can find someone to take on rare Shaun Holmes is money one of the cap space teams, you can get to thirty plus million, and I think that would put you in some interesting conversations. They don't have any notable trade exceptions. Their biggest needs wing defense, back up front, court depth, and so let's start here. Well, let's start with Sabonis. You offer that extension, I think you do. Does he take four and one thirty If that's the number? I think he should or well, it's not should because I think he probably can get more than that. I wouldn't pay him more than that, but I think he should reasonably believe that because that's what we're at. Four for one thirty, you're at like thirty two a year, thirty thirty two and a half. I think that yet it's just because his max salary in that year is so he's silly to be a free agent in twenty four twenty five forty two point nine and the max you could extend him at is about twenty nine. That gap is so far away, But I'm kind of with you, Like four and one thirty feels like the right, even maybe a little bit higher. Yeah, perhaps that's what he's thinking, Like, well, I could get four one fifty And if it's just that difference, okay, fine, you offer it, though, like if you're the Kings, you offer it. If he turns it down, you deal with it and figure it out over the summer. Yeah. I agree that that is a true and that's one that the new rules have made much more plausible than they used to be, because, yeah, because it used to be one twenty and that never seemed like enough. Now, do you anticipate them acting as a cap Space team or would you do you think it's more likely that they just bring back Harrison Barnes. Well, so I hadn't thought about the Holmes component of this because I because for a while it did seem like it made more sense to bring back Harrison Barnes. Unless you thought, and I'll just we'll just get into it early, you know, can we is A is A is an offer sheet for PJ Washington in the twenty million a year range? Like, is that is that enough? Is that worth it? Is he enough of an upgrade to justify that? I don't know, but if you can get to thirty by trading homes into someone's space with a pick or I don't know who you attached young asset wise, they don't really have a lot of those that they would be willing to move, then it's interesting. Then I could imagine you, you know, your suite of options gets a little broader. I guess probably, I think you the more likely scenario is that Barnes is back, I think, as opposed to replacing him with someone younger that makes similar money. I don't know what do you think? Because that's like a real pivotal issue for them this offseason. Yeah. I mean, if it didn't seem like the Blazers were content to just kind of fuck up their world and like fake build around Damian Lillard whatever you want to call it, now, I would be going for the thirty million dollars route and trying to get Jeremy Grant, who's the perfect fit. Do you think he's that much better than Barnes, Like he's he's you know, defensively better. Yeah, defensively yes, I think without question. And so I mean this is the So this is what I would do if I'm the Kings, and we should look they'll have there if they operates over the cap. I think we start looking at, okay, well who can they get for the mid level? And so we want to go through targets quickly before I would map out what I would actually do with them. Just like I'm not saying these guys would all need the full mid level, but Bruce Brown on this team, I would full mid level the shit out of him if that. Like Josh Richardson maybe not a full mid level guy, but he would make a bunch of sense. You could go the route of I mean, like there's not a lot of like bigger wings like Tory Craig makes sense, Jake Cratter makes sense. But would you full You're not gonna full mid level either of those guys. I did think about Dylan Brooks. Would they be a team that should look at Dylan Brooks? Again, I don't know if i'd give him the full mL E, and you do have Davion Mitchell, who's already kind of shrinks the floor for you offensively, and Dylan Brooks is arguably more damaging because he's going to take more shots in all likelihood. But they're a team where, you know, if you think you can trust the spacing, but Dylan Brooks the bonus and Fox maybe that get the little iffy. I don't know, that's the guy I think. I hadn't really, I'm like on the fact that the guy that's the guy I am not, you know, I think Dylan Brooks is certainly for the Grizzlies charitably was doing as much harm as good by the end there. But like this King's team just does not have a two or three or even a four that can guard anybody. And then Dylan Brooks checks all three of those boxes. So like, if it's the full mL E, that's tough because he because of the Yeah, the spacing is brutal with Sabonis and him, But man, like, how where are you getting a better value? Because he's like, he's one of the best defensive wings in the league period. Where are you going to get that for twelve million bucks? Like I don't. I just don't know. And like Mitchell has value, but he does shrink the floor and he's really a one position defender, Like that's just not the same level. So if you move him or just he doesn't play anymore, that's probably okay. Man, I can't believe I'm all in on Dylan Brooks to the King's I did not. I almost didn't even mention him, So I can't believe that you're all about him there. Yeah, I mean, if you want a little higher end, is this a team that makes that you already mentioned PJ Washington that was a good one. Is this a team that makes sense for Kyle Kuzma, Like, if you were going to dump up your cast space a little bit, would you prefer him over Barns. I think I'd still want Grant. I think, yeah, I'd want Grant over Kuzma. End Barns. Would you want who's my over Barns? Is the money equal? Because I think us actually much more. I think the appeal of Barnes is that, you know, what, is he coming off a season which he made what was he at twenty two? He made last season he made eighteen? You'll probably get him for a similar number where I think that Jeremy Grant and Kuzma are both getting twenty plus million. What do you think about this is we're not talking full mly obviously, but what do you think about my matist table, like just come in and guard people? Yeah, I mean, look, he was hitting threes in Portland after he got traded Isaia. I'm just going lower end because like the MLA targets, you know, it's it's there. I don't know that there's I think Bruce Brown like might be if we're looking at someone who can play the two three, I don't know that anyone aside from Bruce Brown with regards to this team. I mean Josh Hard, but he's gonna get way more. Yeah. So because it's real, yeah, and so like in terms of actual like I don't know who's who's who would sign for and then it's actually worth the full mid level. Bruce Brown is like the best player I keep coming up with, and I might just be selling him. Sure, he might be more than a mid level guy. I did think I wouldn't give him the full mid level, but he's just young and the rim pressure he provides how many Diallo could be kind of interesting. Yeah, I'd prefer Dylan Brooks or Bruce Brown, would make that clear. But I think, what do you think about Kelly Ubre. I think he probably expects more than the mid level. I would not pay him more than the mid level. But that's just so like that's a little too offense for me. I would prefer to figure. I'd rather jumped through the extra hoops to be like, let's go for Kyle Kuzma, who's not as gonna give you as much defense as a as a Jeremy Grant, And Kuzma's probably become a little bit overrated defensively. Matt Regard, but why are you giggling because I've already given it away. Do you think the Pelicans are gonna pick up herb Jones is one point eight million dollar team option. He'd be a nice fit. You would actually be a nice fit. But the Pelicans are gonna pick up his team option. Naji Marshall would work for this team too. There you go, we got there. But so my opinion of the Kings is that anything they do the most, I think they end up bringing back Harrison Barnes. They'll use their mid level and it might they might break it up on multiple players. By the way, the middle level we never in those terms. That's always on the table. You don't want an Abby, that's I'm gonna throw him. You put ni killogs, they under walker everywhere. I put Wanton an Abby everywhere. I think he would be a good fit for this team. Did I mentioned Tory Craig, Javonte Green, Jalen McDaniels. Those are all guys. O'she Brissette. If you could count him to make any threes, that'd be a really big deal. We're not a really big deal, but to be a good flyer for this team. I did think about them. It doesn't make any sense. But I thought about naz Reid for a minute. He'd be super fun, but he just doesn't make He doesn't make sense for the King. Yeah, I don't know if they can go for that. So I want to see them because and it gets a little tricky because of their pick commitments. They a lotto protected pick to Atlanta, but they're good enough to where you can trust it conveying and so if you're a team and they start putting, yeah, you can go this year's pick on the table. In addition to other picks, where it's so what do they have this year? There at number twenty four this year, and then they could trade twenty six, twenty eight and thirty. In theory, they are an Ogannaobi team. For me, they need to I'm not saying they give up everything I just named. I think you could get it. Would you give up Keegan Murray for o Giannaobi? I think it's an interesting discussion. They are a team where if you put Ogan and Obi on them, I just feel like he completely like it's not it doesn't They just finished third in the West, so it's not like he reinvents them, but it really just buoys their stock inside what should be I think a Western conference that will be a little bit more hell fire and it was this year. Next year, yeah, I mean, I said half jokingly, Brooks is the guy, but like obviously o g is the guy. The guy like that because you're on a team that has gets ridiculous shot creation from a center and has an All NBA point guard. So it's like Annaobi's biggest flaws is an inability to create his own shot sufficiently and like pass, so not a problem. You just go guard. You just go guard the best guy. Well, you know, if he can swing it around, but if he has to dribble and make a decision, it's just like it does not it does not end well. Yeah, I mean, so how many picks? How many of those firsts are you giving up for? And like is it picks Anne Murray? Because they love Murray? Like that's you know, And then then it's gonna probably cost you the two distant first and maybe this year's first ROGI had Anobi and you know what doing it? Yeah, I mean he's gonna be a he's gonna be a free agent, which makes it so tough. It's gonna cost two first I'm doing it, yeah, because because there edit those first probably won't be that good, you know, if the Kings seem relatively stable, which is a wild thing to say in the wake of twenty plus years, but if you're in Toronto, you're like, we just got let's say it's twenty six and twenty eight frant like Toronto might they have to think about it, right? And then salary, which well that gets a little weird, but like Rashaun Holmes almost gets you there because he's close enough to Ananobe's number. That's that's right, And and like Toronto must know that there's I mean, this cuts against the Kings wanting to do this too, because it's the same argument. But Toronto must know that this. You know, we're gonna we're looking down the barrel of free agency and this guy is gonna get a ton of offers and we may just not want to spend that much, so better to get some assets now, and we just don't have to deal with that. I think he's the guy. Yeah, I think he's the guy. I think you've cracked it because they're not getting Mchael Bridges. Who's another guy you have listed here are? Yeah? I mean that would be that would be every pick and Keegan Murray. And I don't know that they would even say yes to that, right right? I would Would you do it if you're the Kings, it's like three firsts in Murray for Bridges. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think I do it. I don't think they do it because that's because I think they believe in Murray. I think the problem with that, yeah, is because we know that one of those first round picks is twenty three, twenty four whatever was that's not that's whatever, So then you have to weigh though. Okay, those two future first plus key emurrays just a lot. Yeah, yeah, do you want to take us out of here and we're gonna I never want to do ninety minutes on one division again. This was absurd. You gotta have a timer that actually like beefs so we can't ignore it. Yeah, everybody that stayed with us, I mean Kings fans thinks, because you're probably the only ones that made it to the end of this ALPHABETA could Pacific division lists. You can follow us on our socials at Hardwood Knocks on Twitter and TikTok at Hardwood Underscore Knox on Instagram, rate reviews, subscribe on Apple that always helps us out. Subscribe on YouTube. If you're watching this right now, please just move down a little bit and click that thing that's helpful. Tell your friends and enemies and I will shout out by Also, buy some March It's going to be linked in the description and you can wear it or drink from it as the case may be. 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