WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:28.239 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and 2 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:33.399 we have an interesting show for you tonight. We have Scott Duchhane. He's 3 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:40.439 going to be talking about the possible living sky. Are UFOs organic? Could 4 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:45.119 they be living creatures? Could some of them be? It's going to be 5 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:50.240 fascinating, I think, And so I want to thank everyone that helps out 6 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.000 with the show, supports the show. Anyone can do that. You can 7 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:58.000 find that information on our website podcast ufo dot com. We have a new 8 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:03.760 blog a We have a blogger in Tasmania and he wrote a blog about the 9 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:10.359 UFO world and his thoughts on that living there all his life down in Tasmania. 10 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:15.680 So that is uh on our website as well. Um, and let's 11 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.799 see we are I should say I am in a new studio. I moved 12 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:29.159 last week and so I've noticed the internet has had a little bit issue here. 13 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.519 UM, so I'm hoping it's not going to affect the show tonight. 14 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:40.519 I'm trying to get that worked out between now and next week and fix anything 15 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:46.680 that's going on with that. If there are issues, and I think that's 16 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.760 about all I want to talk about. I'm going to let Alejandro, go 17 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.680 from here. How you doing, Alejandro? Good? How are you? 18 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.519 I'm exhausted, but I'm good really, yeah. Yeah, from all that 19 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.519 moving, I don't know that I've ever heard of someone taking as long as 20 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.560 you did. And I know that it wasn't because you were messing around. 21 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:12.360 You were hauling stuff the entire time. Yeah, some days from six in 22 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:16.919 the morning until one in the following morning. It was really molly. Yeah, 23 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:21.759 when you have a big place, you tend to put things in places, 24 00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:25.639 and then you you had no idea that you had things. So oh 25 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:31.280 yeah, I can only imagine. It's hard enough to move from, you 26 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:35.400 know, fifteen hundred and two thousand square foot place, but at place two 27 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:38.319 to three times at I can I can only imagine. Yeah, yeah, 28 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:43.840 I just want to put everything in a big pile and burn it. But 29 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:49.240 anyway, So what's going on in the UFO world? So UFOs, Yeah, 30 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:53.240 there's quite a big going on at least, you know, there's a 31 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.319 lot of news around and a lot of people have seen this, and we've 32 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.039 talked about this. In fact, we've been one of the few outlets to 33 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:02.039 talk about this. But to the Stars Academy of course, ran by Tom 34 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:07.560 DeLong, an organization looking into the UFOs and paranormal Some of the other members 35 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:14.080 are people in intelligence and scientists, and of course Luelzando who used to run 36 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:22.039 the DoD project investigating UFOs. So there was an SEC filing that came out, 37 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:27.120 and it's because they're a public corporation. They're kind of a new type 38 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:31.439 of corporation where it's it's kind of a crowdfunding base type of thing, where 39 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:37.120 you know, you can buy shares to be part of this company. Well, 40 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:42.240 a filing came out that said they were thirty seven thousand or million dollars 41 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.439 in debt, and so people started assuming and you saw these videos popping up, 42 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:51.879 especially with conspiracy people and stuff. Oh, you know, to the 43 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.599 stars is Owes all this money they're going under This was just a big scam 44 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:00.159 to steal people money from people. There were even some people saying that they 45 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.479 must have spent this thirty seven million dollars or no, they weren't saying they 46 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.240 must have. They were saying, this is what happened. They spent this 47 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:14.080 thirty seven million dollars building an alien technology spaceship and now they don't want to 48 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.680 share it with anybody, and that's where the money must have went, and 49 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.439 all of this sort of thing, Well, what's money about that is if 50 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.040 they had built a spaceship like that, it probably would have got more than 51 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:28.199 thirty seven million dollars. But as you know, I've been trying to point 52 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:31.480 out to people, if you look at that filing, it was for equity 53 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:38.480 stock compensation, So it's kind of a paper thing. It's not real money. 54 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:42.000 It's not money that they spent. It's and I'm not going to say 55 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.480 I understand it, but it's kind of been on the internet, and of 56 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.800 course I've addressed it and we've talked about it, I think, on the 57 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:54.839 show. But it went big in the last couple of days, especially when 58 00:04:54.879 --> 00:05:00.839 Ours Techniqua wrote a story about it and that got picked up by Ashable and 59 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.600 some other news outlets, so it kind of got out there. But arts 60 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:10.160 technique I kind of took the perspective and the verbice that you heard from kind 61 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:15.959 of the conspiracy theories and from the social media out there, and obviously the 62 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.800 Two the Stars people got a little upset, in particular Tom DeLong. He 63 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:24.480 posted a couple of things on social media saying, you know, this guy 64 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:30.319 got it all completely wrong and they need to retract that, and that got 65 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.800 deleted yesterday. But there's another response that's kind of a little more formal and 66 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:41.600 explanatory that came out from two the Stars today. Now I am not and 67 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.360 I've sought the help of some people who know about accounting and corporate accounting, 68 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.079 but they've who've tried to explain it, and I know too. The Stars 69 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:55.199 tries to explain it here, but it's over my head and I think it'll 70 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.720 be over a lot of people's heads. But essentially, what he's saying is 71 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.000 that it's not real debt. I mean, what they've been doing, Like 72 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.199 a lot of early companies, they'll pay their people in stock. So a 73 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:12.720 lot of these people are practically essentially volunteers, which isn't too surprising because of 74 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:15.319 course, if you look at Mutual, UFO Network, any of these organizations 75 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:20.319 out there, they're all volunteers. But this these guys are getting paid in 76 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:25.040 a stock so that if the company does well, you know at some point 77 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.800 this stock will be worth something. And so that's what that number relates to 78 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:34.680 as actual stock. It's not money they owe or anything. Now, they 79 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:43.399 didn't address part of that SEC filing which just say something to the effect that 80 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:49.079 this could be an issue for their viability going forward. In fact, it 81 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.439 calls it a growing concern, and it says these factors raised out about the 82 00:06:54.439 --> 00:07:00.879 company's ability to continue as a going concern. So obviously it's it's uh, 83 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:04.720 something that is, you know, internally, something they're working on. But 84 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:10.560 it's not what it was, you know, it's not debt like they said 85 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.199 it was. And in fact, To the Stars has reached out to many 86 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:19.120 of the news outlets who have posted corrections to their stories. Our technique, 87 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:24.000 I guess has not done that yet, but many other outlets have, so 88 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:30.319 you know, it's it's not what it's been portrayed out there. And of 89 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.879 course a lot of people jumping the gun before they got information, and as 90 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:38.319 we've said, you know, we'll wait for more information, and it appears 91 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.639 to be what we thought it was. It's not like, you know, 92 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.600 this this huge debt like people are trying to make it out to be, 93 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.240 nor have they built an alien spacecraft or anything like that. In fact, 94 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.560 we know what they're up to because they're posting videos about what they're up to. 95 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:58.519 They're up to um, you know, looking into these materials and apparently 96 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:03.720 they have some material that they believe have been retrieved from UFOs or anomalous occurrences 97 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.439 which are showing some promise. Apparently that they are doing some scientific studies and 98 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:15.519 have found some of this stuff to be genuinely anomalous. And I know, 99 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.279 over time, and I don't think it's going to be the two distant future, 100 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:22.160 they want to share their findings, so it'll be great to see that 101 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.920 information once it comes out. But of course that sort of work that they're 102 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.120 doing, the lab testing, while it's expensive, isn't millions and millions of 103 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:37.120 dollars. And in fact, in this filing you can't see those numbers. 104 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.240 I mean, everything they're doing, all these numbers are there, and you 105 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:43.919 can see that these operating costs have cost them, you know, one hundred 106 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:48.559 thousand or so dollars, So it's been expensive. But that's what precludes this 107 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:54.480 testing to happen in this field often is that it is expensive. And you 108 00:08:54.519 --> 00:09:00.000 know, expectative for an average person is in the thousands to tens of thousands. 109 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.000 Normal person out on the volunteer can't afford to pay that to get this 110 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.240 step analyzed. So it is I feel beneficial that they're doing this, and 111 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:11.320 we'll see what happens with the material. At least we'll learn more about some 112 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.720 of the materials out there that have been suspected to be anomalous. So that's 113 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:20.679 some news that's out there because those stories have been running. And you know 114 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.559 how it is with the news cycle. Once the wrong story gets out, 115 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:30.960 that is the predominant story, and typically corrections, you know, they either 116 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.000 don't get out there, you never hear about them. So that's that's the 117 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.799 story that people remember and uh right and fall back on. Now. Um, 118 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:41.960 so this was a public filing? Is that how this get out? 119 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.320 Exactly? It's a public filing. It's something that they have to do. 120 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.919 This filing, let's see, was posted on June thirtieth, twenty eighteen, 121 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.440 so it's been out there for a while before people kind of ran across it. 122 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:01.320 But of course this is the Securities and Exchange Commission, and since they 123 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:03.919 are a corporation that are dealing in shares, that's why they have to, 124 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.279 um, you know, follow the rules and regulations and some of that is 125 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.279 to disclose and to write these reports. So there is one actually from last 126 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.080 year you can go find as well. Um, but yeah, this was 127 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:22.879 the latest update. Now when they when they do something like this, Um, 128 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.679 you said that Tom Tom made some type of statement. Did he just 129 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.399 did he clear it all up and say, hey everyone, everything's okay, 130 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.519 you know, stop worrying or anything. What was essentially of what he wrote, 131 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:43.240 the gist was explaining, I guess to begin, this is kind of 132 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.000 an introduction. We appreciate the professionalism and most media channels who have taken the 133 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:54.720 steps to update their articles and inform their readers of their mistake, and you 134 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.919 know, gets into how essentially just saying, this isn't debt like people keep 135 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:05.039 saying like many other startups. You know, we're paying our people in stock 136 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:11.039 and so this is a stockholder equity deficit number that looks like this big number 137 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:16.120 that we owe, but it's not. If you look at the details the 138 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:22.519 notes under on that same SEC filing, you'll see more information about that. 139 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.759 I've looked at those notes. I just don't understand accounting speak, so I 140 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.279 don't get it. It's it's often like talking about multiple dimensions and the science 141 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.679 behind that. That's when that's way over my head too. So so that's 142 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.360 essentially what he was saying. He said, you know Tom DeLong that was 143 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:41.840 from to the Stars. Tom Deloon personally said, I want to mention that 144 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:48.559 I appreciate, you know, those who have reached out and those journalists who 145 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:56.679 have been correcting things. But that's about all I've said. So they didn't 146 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.960 speak to that point of whether or not you know, the stay of the 147 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:05.799 company. You know, I don't think that doesn't appear they want to make 148 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:09.759 a comment on that as of yet, but I haven't reviewed all the corrections, 149 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.360 and maybe one of those corrections will speak to that. Okay, great, 150 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:18.039 we have just a couple of minutes. Anything else. I guess that's 151 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.840 the big news that people will see out there right now. Otherwise, you 152 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:28.399 know, really, yeah, that's the biggest thing out there. Otherwise, 153 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.320 I would say there's lots of news out there about Project blue Book because the 154 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.919 New York Comic Con a week or so ago, and those are some really 155 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.279 neat stories out there. So I would recommend people take a look at that. 156 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.519 You know, Excitements growing for this television show that will be coming out 157 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.200 January one about Project Blue Book and doctor j Allen Heineck. Oh it's January 158 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.360 one. Wow, So they're really promoting this ahead yeah, I think it's 159 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:58.679 January. I'm pretty sure it is. Now you're making me question, but 160 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:05.120 well, anyone, anyone can look that up. All they have to do 161 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.639 is see yeah Google that it's coming out very soon, is what we need 162 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:13.399 to know. Yeah, right, all right, and January's coming up really 163 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.600 quick. You know, the holiday's come, you know how it is after 164 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.879 Halloween all of a sudden, it's Thanksgiving, then it's Christmas and you're like, 165 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.360 whoa where did those three months go? You know, about three or 166 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:24.519 four days ago, I had to go to home depot for something and I 167 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:30.720 walked in the door and it was Santa Claus and Christmas trees and man, 168 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.600 it's October. Oh my gosh, you're kidding. No. I took a 169 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.159 picture of it and put it on Facebook, and it's like, you know, 170 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.399 I was joking with the girl there, I said, is this for 171 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.679 next year? You know you're doing it earlier and earlier all the time. 172 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:50.399 Anyway, Yeah, I mean it's Halloween. We need our costumes still. 173 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:56.559 Yeah. Well anyway, all right, well thanks Alajandro and all right, 174 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:01.159 thank you. We'll be talking next week and everyone up, don't forget to 175 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.440 check out All hundred's live stream show, especially you people that like to watch 176 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.480 on YouTube. Now it's every Thursday, and go ahead, give them the 177 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:15.840 picture. It's called UFOs. Seriously, it's every Thursday at six pm Arizona 178 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.200 time, which is currently aligned with Pacific and yep, you can just go 179 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:24.840 to the open Minds TV YouTube channel and go check it out there. Yeah, 180 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.600 and you won't be aligned too much longer. We go into we change 181 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.240 on daylight savings time fairly soon, I think, how we do? Yeah, 182 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.360 I always forget when that is. Yeah, so we change and yeah, 183 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.720 yeah, Arizona does. And that's what's nice about Arizona. We don't 184 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.000 do that, but it still cause it's trouble because everybody else does. But 185 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.480 of course on there you'll be able to ask questions live and I try to 186 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:48.840 answer questions, and then I go over all of the UFO news for the 187 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.240 week, of course, which you can see at open mind stat TV. 188 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.240 Excellent. All right, I'll talk to you next week. All right, 189 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.519 tuck to you next week. Have a great show. All right, thank 190 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:05.799 you. So our guests. Our guests this evening is Scott Duche and he 191 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.639 has a couple of books, The Sky Is Alive, The Living Sky and 192 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:16.080 we're going to be talking about all that and so much more fascinating topic. 193 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.039 Welcome to the show, Scott, Thank you, Martin, thank you for 194 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.360 having me. Yes, and we have in the background you have some posters 195 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.559 going. When we pop up on full screen, we'll be able to show 196 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:33.559 the people watching YouTube that. So I thought this was fascinating because I remember 197 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:41.320 what your your subject is because I've watched a video one time. I remember 198 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:46.039 it clearly. It looked like a jellyfish and it looked like something living. 199 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:52.039 And a few people have talked about, you know, experiences where they were 200 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.240 thinking things were alive. That's a whole other subject I'll talk to you about 201 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.840 as we get into it a little bit more. But what what caused you 202 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:07.759 to look into this and also what made you take this approach that I don't 203 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.039 think anyone else has ever taken. Well, actually, it's not my idea 204 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:18.879 totally. I've taken it sort of some logical conclusions or some logical next steps. 205 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.799 But I'm sure a lot of folks who were interested in UFOs are familiar 206 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:26.440 with the name Kenneth Arnold. You know, he's the gentleman who's sighting in 207 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.200 nineteen forty seven, sparked the whole term flying saucer. Well, he studied 208 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:36.879 UFOs the rest of his life, and he came to the conclusion that they 209 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.519 were some kind of natural flora or fauna of the atmosphere, that they were 210 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.879 living things. And it's kind of a mystery to me why more people don't 211 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:51.000 pay attention to everybody sort of lionizes Kenneth Arnold. But nobody pays attention in 212 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.279 those conclusions that he had. I know there's been interviews with his daughter where 213 00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:00.440 she talks about some of his conclusions. But he talks to pilots many islets 214 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.000 during his research, during his study of UFOs, and a lot of them 215 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:10.400 told him stories of lifelike UFOs that are approaching planes. So what you described 216 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.599 earlier, people saying, oh, it looked like a jellyfish. Oh it 217 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.559 moved, and you know, that's a very common thing. In fact, 218 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:22.160 that's what sort of led me into the that whole area of study looking at 219 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.960 you know, once we started finding that you can have visual evidence of UFOs. 220 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.400 Me I've always been fascinated by scary stories, and once we started having 221 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.559 videotapes and DDDs, I decided to look closely and a lot of the UFO 222 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:42.759 evidence. So you had people who didn't have access to a camera before, 223 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:48.039 all of a sudden recording these things. And now everybody with a phone has 224 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.960 a camera, so all of a sudden, you're seeing, you know, 225 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:56.920 thousands and thousands and thousands of recordings of these objects, and you look at 226 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.720 them, and so many of them. Well, first of all, as 227 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.039 sure, you're well aware, most of them are blurry or indistinct or you 228 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.079 can't tell what it is. But the few where they are clear, they 229 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:11.000 don't really look like mechanical craft. But a lot of them look like what 230 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.920 we call, you know, the kind of organisms that we see living in 231 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.599 Earth's oceans. And that's so it sort of started me down that avenue is 232 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:26.880 looking considering the possibility that our atmosphere might be a habitat it's similar to Earth's 233 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.160 oceans. And the more I've looked, the more I've found. It's just 234 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.079 a fascinating topic, and there's all kinds of evidence out there, all kinds 235 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:38.000 of visual evidence, And the best thing about it is that it provides a 236 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.839 clear path for study going forward. We're not just looking at things in the 237 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.119 past and saying, oh, what was it? What was it and arguing 238 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:49.279 about what it was. There's actually different specific ways we can go forward and 239 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.680 study this and try and find out if this is really a provable hypothesis. 240 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.440 Well, a couple of things I thought of in this whole topic of yours, 241 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.920 and one of them is are these things actually supposed to be floating? 242 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:11.920 Or how do they maintain you know, uh, weightlessness you know less scenaire 243 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.880 as they say, um, you know and then navigate and all that. 244 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:21.400 That's a good question. A lot of people ask that, they go how 245 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.880 do they stay up? You know, why don't they just fall out of 246 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.519 the sky? And to really understand the topic, one of the reasons that 247 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.440 it's, uh, it's kind of simple, but it's kind of revolutionary in 248 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.480 a lot of ways. But one of the challenges to understanding the topic is 249 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.640 you have to understand several different things. First, you have to think of 250 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:44.599 the atmosphere. You have to understand a little bit about Earth's atmosphere, and 251 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:48.039 then you have to understand a little bit about the UFO problem. You know 252 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.640 what what we see with the question of UFO is why are you know, 253 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.759 the whole nature of the phenomena? And then is where it take sort of 254 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.519 a wrong a sort of a left turn, and you have to look the 255 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:07.160 type of organisms that we find in Earth's other fluid environment, the ocean. 256 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.720 But let's go let's start with the atmosphere. We think of the atmosphere. 257 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.960 I heard somebody once say that goldfish don't know what water is because they swim 258 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:21.039 in it all the time. And now we don't think of the atmosphere as 259 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:26.119 a habitat because we just take it for granted. But it's this giant environment. 260 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.759 It's this vaporous cloud that surrounds the planet. It's huge. It has 261 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:37.079 five million times more volume than Earth's oceans, and we tend to think of 262 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.599 it it is just empty space, but it's not. There's huge amounts of 263 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.880 water and minerals and energy just coursing through the atmosphere on a scale we can't 264 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.920 even imagine. So closer to the Earth, the atmosphere is more dense, 265 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.319 and as we rise higher, it gets less dense, until at the edge 266 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.039 of space. There's not really a hard line there. It's just kind of 267 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.559 some kind of transfer back in fourth between the edge of space and Earth's atmosphere. 268 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.400 So things moving through the atmosphere don't have to float, they just have 269 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:12.160 to be less dense than what's immediately below them. So it's like asking, 270 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.559 you know, why don't fish to sink to the bottom of the ocean. 271 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.799 Well, they maintain their buoyancy through that fluid environment. And that's what I'm 272 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.559 proposing, is that the types of organisms that we seem to see in the 273 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:30.039 atmosphere or the kind that can maintain that sort of buoyancy. Now, I 274 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.240 understand you just said that there's five million times more volume in the atmosphere than 275 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:40.319 all the oceans, But don't you I mean, it seems to me that 276 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:45.039 if there was actually something up there, wouldn't it be detected more often? 277 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:51.000 Or is it just that it's so vast? I mean it all kinds of 278 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.839 things come to mind. How do these things breed? Where do they hang 279 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:59.279 out? For the most part, what do they eat? Do they eat 280 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:03.119 birds? No? I mean, well that's a good question. Actually that's 281 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.160 a good question. Those are great questions, and part of it comes down 282 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:11.039 to another challenge about this hypothesis is accepting I mean, we tend to think 283 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.599 we're humans, tend to think that we're the grand Puba of the you know, 284 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.480 the food chain that we're at the top of the food chain. But 285 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.559 if you think of our planet's environment and the different habitats that are there, 286 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.359 you know, it's two thirds three quarters of the planet is oceans. We 287 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:33.640 can't live in the oceans enveloping the whole planet, or the atmosphere. We 288 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.759 can't live in the atmosphere. Our habitat is just this tiny skin on the 289 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.759 surface of the land. We can't live below the surface of the land. 290 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.400 We live on the surface of the land. So if you think about our 291 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.799 perspective, that's our perspective right on the surface of the earth. Now, 292 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:56.680 if you think in the past, we've only been having powered air flight for 293 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.720 a little over one hundred years, So we don't. We tend to think 294 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.440 that we understand what's up there, but we really don't. Now, there's 295 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:15.200 a possibility that there is an entire realm of life that's too fast, too 296 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.160 smart, and possibly you know, too indistinct, too good at disguising itself 297 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.960 for us to perceive. And you ask, why don't we see them all 298 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.640 the time? Well, we do, as you're aware. One of the 299 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.480 mysteries of the UFO phenomena is how many people see them, and people see 300 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.960 them all the time, and that was to me one of the one of 301 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.480 the bits of kind of evidence is sort of cemented in my mind that this 302 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.160 was a real possibility. I said, Okay, let's test this hypothesis. 303 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.519 You know, if these are living creatures, you know, if they're up 304 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:51.880 in the atmosphere, wouldn't people see them? And I thought, well, 305 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:56.279 what's the most credible evidence that we can find. I said, let's go 306 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.240 look at the NASA program. Let's see what you know the astronauts have seen. 307 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.440 Let's go look at what the Shuttle and the space station I've recorded. 308 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:10.920 And what I found just boggle my mind. You were probably aware of some 309 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:15.160 of the footage it's out there, some of the Shuttle footage. It's out 310 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.279 there that's been reported, as you know UFO sightings and unexplained objects. But 311 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.319 if you look at these things, they are just hours and hours and hours 312 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:30.000 of unexplained objects moving through the atmosphere. Talking about from the sorry, from 313 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.039 the capsule windows. We actually have to go to break here. So I'm 314 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:38.119 gonna have to Okay, we'll have to come back to this, but so 315 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.160 let's just come back to this up. I'm going to ask the question, 316 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:48.039 are these things that they have filmed right outside, right outside the window basically, 317 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.039 and okay, so hang in there everyone, We're going to go to 318 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.799 break right now. So we'll we'll go back to that looking out the window 319 00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.559 of a capsule or whatever it is, space station or all that. Um, 320 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.200 yeah, it sounds great. Yeah. So, um, anyway, 321 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:10.319 you you actually, um, I didn't ask this in the in the main 322 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.880 part of the show, but what actually got you interested in the topic of 323 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:19.880 UFOs to begin with? Uh, Well, my brother used to read me. 324 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.640 I don't know if you remember Frank Edwards Stranger than Science. Do you 325 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:29.599 remember those books? Yeah, he used to read those two uh to my 326 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.079 sister and my brother and I and scare the pants off of us. And 327 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.359 so of course I wanted to find out, you know, what's really going 328 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:40.960 on, you know, so you can blame Frank Edwards. And then of 329 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:45.640 course I started researching the reading the greats like John Keel and Ivan Sanderson, 330 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:52.000 And in fact, Ivan Sanderson wrote a whole book, uh, postulating that 331 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.319 UFOs might be living creatures. So yeah, like I said, it's not 332 00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:57.720 it's not my original idea. My idea is just to say, oh, 333 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:02.599 they're they're kind of similar to the organisms. It's not a stretch of the 334 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.160 imagination. I think they might be very similar to the organisms we find in 335 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.160 the oceans. But yeah, that's you know, the whole idea, The 336 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.039 scary story aspect of it is what got me interested in it. And have 337 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:21.440 you explored other topics as well, You've written other books. Well, yeah, 338 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:29.759 my career it was actually producing educational booklets for different organizations. So that's 339 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.119 one of the things that sort of led me into this area as well. 340 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:36.480 I studied, I did a lot of work for conservation agencies where I studied 341 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.960 living things, habitats, natural resources, how all those things interacted to create 342 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.480 an environment to make life possible. And so it got me thinking about the 343 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.279 resources in the atmosphere, and that's sort of I thought, oh, gosh, 344 00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:53.720 you've got all these resources in the atmosphere for a habitat. I wonder 345 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.359 what's there. And sure enough, everywhere we look, you know, we 346 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.920 find more things. And that's something we can talk about to some of the 347 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.160 areas in the atmosphere where we find things that seem to look like living things. 348 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:11.640 Yeah, I've heard I've heard of scientists say that the atmosphere around Earth 349 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.079 is like the skin of an apple. It's not right, it's not in 350 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.720 comparison to the earth. We don't have a lot of it, which right, 351 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.519 And that's a that's what's it's kind of In fact, that's one of 352 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.880 the things that's kind of important about why we need to study this is because 353 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:33.039 you know, if these things, I mean, we can talk when we 354 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.359 get back to from the break, we can talk about some about sprites. 355 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:38.839 I don't know if you've heard anything about those. Yeah, yeah, I 356 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:45.359 watch the documentary on that before they right, reverse lightning actually goes up, 357 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:53.039 which right, yeah, well they Well, I'm one of my one of 358 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.000 my contacts sent me something recently about an astronaut who was I think it was 359 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:03.000 sts Shuttle Mission one fifteen where he just was interviewed by someone and he said 360 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.759 that the things that they saw their looked like they were organic and it was 361 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.440 that was interesting because for an astronaut to say that, it was kind of 362 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.720 a big that's a big deal, right, Yeah. Yeah, there's been 363 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:19.599 a few that have said some pretty interesting things. Yeah, and according I 364 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.680 don't know, you're familiar with Martin Stubbs, the fellow that recorded a lot 365 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:32.559 of this footage He was a Canadian public access television director and in the early 366 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.440 days, a lot of the shuttle feeds down from you know, the shuttle, 367 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:44.079 they were unsecured, and so he was there with the public access television 368 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:47.519 station in Canada and he would just record, you know, just keep changing 369 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:51.279 the tapes out, recording all the stuff from the shuttle. Hang. I 370 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:52.839 just mean, I think we're about ready to go back, all right, 371 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.920 welcome back. This is Martin Willis, My guest is Scott. To Shane 372 00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:02.519 and Scott. We were talking just before the break about what people had been 373 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:11.279 filming outside of the window NASA spacecraft or actually the space station as well, 374 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.240 I believe, but if correct me if I'm wrong, But a lot of 375 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:21.640 the footage. Are you talking about this footage that people caught, that was 376 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:27.359 transmitted or that someone can actually get the files? Now? Oh yeah, 377 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:33.279 there's a whole range of different pieces of footage. They have been caught over 378 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:40.039 the years of the decades of exploration. As a matter of fact, you 379 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.279 know, you don't have to look very far to find this evidence. The 380 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.920 first time we put a man into orbit, John Glenn, he reported the 381 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.519 famous firefly incident where he saw these objects, these luminous particles all around his 382 00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:57.160 capsule as he moved there through you know, around the planet, and he 383 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:03.160 saw them near dawn each time as he came into the dawn area of the 384 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.519 atmosphere. And after that, you know, if you think about the astronauts 385 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:12.319 orbiting the planet, I mean, their first impulse, their first concern is 386 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:18.079 safety to do everything correct or they can get back down safely. So when 387 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.839 we had a chance to remain in orbit for longer times with the space station, 388 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.079 and we're during the Shuttle program, they had a little more time to 389 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.279 focus on the things that were outside the craft. And when they started looking 390 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.279 outside the craft, they actually recorded some amazing stuff. Some of it was 391 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.279 by design, but some of it was by accident. They used some different 392 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:47.000 cameras that would reveal things that weren't visible to the naked eye. For example, 393 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:53.319 the Shuttle mission thirty nine, and they call him STS STS thirty nine 394 00:30:53.359 --> 00:31:00.200 in nineteen ninety one, they used a type of camera called Cyrus, which 395 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.279 is an acronym for a camera that allowed to look into the infrared spectrum. 396 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.640 But when they trailed it, when they pointed it outside, they saw this 397 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:15.440 whole swarm of things moving by the camera. They look like pulsing squid, 398 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:21.839 which are one of the types of organisms that are very prominent in Earth's oceans, 399 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.759 and they're perfectly suited from moving in in a fluid environment. And they've 400 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.240 also been reported flying. So we know that squid fly, and we know 401 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.279 they'll come out of the water, and we know that some of them are 402 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.519 bigger than we even imagine. Now is it a big stretch to think that 403 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.440 some of them move up through the atmosphere. Well, this particular piece of 404 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.279 footage from STS thirty nine actually shows what seemed to be a swarm of these 405 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.960 things moving by the capsules. They all right, everyone, that's it for 406 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.599 the free part of the show. Thank you so much for listening. We'll 407 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:55.759 be back next week with Nick Redfern and he's going to be talking about his 408 00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.359 new book. When doesn't Nick have a new book? Anyway, Thanks for 409 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.480 listening, and if you'd like to listen to the full two hour shows, 410 00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:06.920 all you have to do is help us out for two dollars or more a 411 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.960 month and all that informations on podcast ufo dot com. Thanks again for listening, 412 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:28.440 and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.