1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,839 Southern Fried True crime covers cases that are not suitable for young listeners, and 2 00:00:05,919 --> 00:00:12,359 there may also be some explicit language used. Listener discretion is advised for those 3 00:00:12,359 --> 00:00:17,000 who missed the last episode. Here's a quick recap. On September eleventh, 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,199 nineteen ninety one, in the small town of Jasper, Alabama, a couple 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,760 named Earl and Carrie Lawson were sleeping peacefully until they were awoken by a phone 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,879 call. It was in the darkest hours of the night before dawn breaks, 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,039 and those kind of calls are never good. Earl's father had recently been ill, 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,840 so when the woman on the phone claimed to be a nurse from the 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,759 local hospital, they believed her. She said his dad, Earl Lawson Senior, 10 00:00:43,079 --> 00:00:45,920 might not even make it through the night and they needed to rush to 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,960 Walker Medical Hospital right away. The couple threw on some clothes and rushed out 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,799 the door, jumping in their Ford Explorer in the car port. Suddenly, 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,000 a masked man appeared with a gun. Earl Lawson realized immediately that the phone 14 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:03,840 call from the nurse had been a ruse. The assailant made Carrie bind Earl 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,040 with duct tape and then forced her back into the Explorer, and then he 16 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:14,319 raced off into the night, abducting twenty five year old Carrie Lawson. Earle 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,560 managed to break free from the duct tape, but his keys were still in 18 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:21,319 the explore, so he kicked in his back door and called his dad and 19 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:26,159 nine one one. Then he called Carrie's parents. He later said it was 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,879 one of the hardest things he ever had to do in his life. Their 21 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,319 families were shocked to discover this was a kidnapping for ransom. It seemed like 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,760 something you only saw in movies, but it was very real and they were 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,319 terrified for Carrie. In the last episode, I told you all about the 24 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:48,680 parade of mistakes the FBI made in this case. Now we're getting into the 25 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:53,719 repercussions of those mistakes and even more bad decisions as Carrie Lawson's life hung in 26 00:01:53,719 --> 00:02:00,879 the balance. Welcome to Episode two nineteen, The Kidnapping of Carrie Lawson, 27 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Part two. In the last episode, we learned about the first failed ransom 28 00:02:07,919 --> 00:02:13,919 drop, the agonizing phone calls with Carrie, the myriad mistakes made by the 29 00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:19,680 FBI, and finally a successful ransom drop. Only after he got the money. 30 00:02:20,199 --> 00:02:25,639 Carrie's family and law enforcement never heard from the kidnapper again on September twenty 31 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,479 eighth. She had been missing for seventeen days, and authorities released audio tapes 32 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:36,319 of the calls with the kidnapper to the public. They played on radio stations 33 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:42,400 and TV news repeatedly in the hopes that someone would recognize the kidnapper's voice. 34 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,000 More than one hundred people called in with tips. According to an FBI expert, 35 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,560 the man had not just a North Alabama accent, but a Jasper accent, 36 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,120 and he turned out to be right. A caller recognized the voice of 37 00:02:57,159 --> 00:03:00,439 a man named Jerry Bland on the radio station and called the tip line. 38 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,680 He was certain it was Jerry Bland's voice. Jerry Bland was born right there 39 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:13,719 in Jasper in December nineteen forty one to parents Albert and Loreene Bland. Jerry 40 00:03:13,759 --> 00:03:17,879 also attended Walker High School now known as Jasper High School, the same school 41 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:23,520 Earl Lawson Junior had graduated from, but Jerry would have graduated around the spring 42 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:28,879 of nineteen fifty nine, twenty four years before Earl, so they had never 43 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:34,599 crossed paths. Records weren't clear, so we weren't entirely sure. Jerry Bland 44 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,840 got his diploma, but we do know he enlisted in the army after high 45 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:44,439 school. He completed basic training at Fort Jackson in South Carolina. After his 46 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,639 military service, Jerry began working as a stripmon operator in the late nineteen sixties, 47 00:03:50,199 --> 00:03:54,319 then working for B and D Industrial Mining Services through the seventies and eighties. 48 00:03:55,199 --> 00:04:00,159 In nineteen eighty seven, Jerry helped found two mining companies. One was 49 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:06,960 called BKW Enterprises. It operated out of Bessemer, Alabama. Jerry started the 50 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,039 company with three partners, including his brother, but Jerry was bought out two 51 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,079 years later in nineteen eighty nine, which seems to mark the beginning of his 52 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:23,040 downward spiral. Selling out was a terrible decision. Jerry was married to a 53 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:28,319 woman named Sheila. They had two daughters together. At the time of Carrie's 54 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,560 kidnapping, they lived in a North Jasper home. Around nineteen ninety, after 55 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:38,439 Jerry sold his company, he and Sheila moved from a very nice, expensive 56 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,279 home in the same Heritage Hills subdivision where Carrie and Earle had built their home, 57 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,639 to a cheaper home in Jasper. They were experiencing financial struggles. Jerry 58 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:55,160 had made some poor business decisions, but he also had an expensive substance abuse 59 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,839 problem. His drug of choice was cocaine, so by the time nineteen ninety 60 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:06,399 one unrolled around, Jerry really needed money badly. After investigating Jerry, finally 61 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,319 the pieces were starting to come together. For the FBI. Multiple people said 62 00:05:12,519 --> 00:05:17,639 Jerry's voice matched the kidnapper's voice and the recordings, but still a question remained. 63 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Who was the woman who had helped Jerry, who had pretended to be 64 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:27,839 a nurse when calling Earl and Carry that night. The FBI was already looking 65 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,680 at Jerry's female associates when a woman named Karen was identified on a recording that 66 00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:36,839 the police didn't make. I'll get to that in just a bit. The 67 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:43,040 woman on the recording was Karen Lancaster McPherson, Jerry's close friend and cousin by 68 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,839 marriage. Karen Lancaster was born in the fall of nineteen sixty one. She 69 00:05:46,959 --> 00:05:53,959 came from a blue collar military family. Members of Karen's family described themselves as 70 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:00,399 dysfunctional and the working poor during her childhood. Karen's father was a Special Forces 71 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:06,120 serviceman. He was deployed to Vietnam twice, and he was also an alcoholic. 72 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,480 Karen's mother, Ida Cleveland, said Karen's father would often talk down to 73 00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:16,600 her and her children, Ida explained to Ale dot Com. He told them 74 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:21,000 they would never be as good as he was. Karen was the fourth of 75 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:27,560 five children. Her family told newspapers that Karen and most of her siblings had 76 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,160 developed substance abuse issues. As an adult, Karen was a truck driver for 77 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:38,399 Deaton Trucking. She married young and had one daughter before her divorce. In 78 00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:42,240 nineteen eighty eight, twenty seven year old Karen married a thirty six year old 79 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,839 truck driver named Ricky Lynn Macpherson. Ricky had also been married before, but 80 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,800 he had no children. He Karen and her teenage daughter lived in a house 81 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:58,079 in Coleman, Alabama. Karen was on disability from a worker's compensation claim. 82 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,920 She fell and hit the railing on a truck. In the process, Karen 83 00:07:01,959 --> 00:07:06,160 injured her knees and legs. Due to her on the job injury, she 84 00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:12,639 became partially disabled and lost forty five percent of our earning ability. As a 85 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,120 result, Deton had to pay her benefits into the mid nineties. By nineteen 86 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:21,959 ninety one, Karen was a housewife, and, as I alluded to earlier, 87 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:28,759 she had become close with her cousin by marriage, Jerry Bland. According 88 00:07:28,759 --> 00:07:33,240 to Karen's family, Jerry had bypassed surgery and needed help. Karen shipped in, 89 00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:41,319 and apparently the two became pretty close friends. Karen's family would later claim 90 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:46,519 that Jerry preyed on Karen. Her mother and eldest brother told reporters that Karen 91 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,720 was easily manipulated. They also said Karen had a bad habit of overlooking men's 92 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:57,120 flaws, so Jerry, who was said to be charismatic and charming, took 93 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,439 advantage of that. There are even rumors that Jerry threatened to harm Karen and 94 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:07,079 her family if she didn't help him with this subduction plot, but frankly, 95 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,160 there's no hard evidence to show that's true, just the claims of Karen's family 96 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:18,040 members trying to mitigate complicity in Carrie's kidnapping. Karen's oldest brother, Frank, 97 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,720 told Ale dot com that he believed Jerry was trying to approach him about the 98 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:28,959 ransom scheme. First. Weeks before Carrie was taken, Jerry allegedly invited Frank 99 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,120 and his wife to a pool party. Frank thought that was odd. Jerry 100 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:39,039 hardly ever invited him over he had a business opportunity he wanted to run by 101 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Frank, but apparently they didn't get to it at the party. Frank, 102 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,720 who was a US Marine, soon took an overseas assignment. He was in 103 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,279 Singapore at the time of the kidnapping. Ultimately, it's unclear how Jerry convinced 104 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:58,480 Karen to cooperate with his plan to kidnap Carrie Lawson, but it is widely 105 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:05,320 accepted that Jerry was the mastermind behind the kidnapping, though, as you'll hear 106 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,879 in a minute, Karen is not without blame. I'm going to pause now 107 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:20,960 for a short commercial break. Let's circle back to the timeline of the investigation. 108 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,799 On Saturday, September twenty eighth, Carrie had been missing for over two 109 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,639 weeks. The kidnapper slash. Jerry's phone calls had been released and the FBI 110 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:37,799 had tentatively identified him. Karen would soon be identified too. That same Saturday, 111 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:45,000 the FBI got a warrant and searched Jerry's home and truck. Right away, 112 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,759 they discovered cash in his truck. It was eighty four one hundred dollars 113 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:54,480 bills using serial numbers. The FBI verified that this was in fact part of 114 00:09:54,519 --> 00:10:00,480 the ransom money. They also found several guns in the house and all amount 115 00:10:00,519 --> 00:10:07,840 of marijuana, but the agents did not arrest Jerry. Instead, the FBI 116 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:11,480 secretly saveiled Jerry's house over the weekend. They saw that Jerry's wife and two 117 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,440 daughters were in the home. The mother and daughters were sleeping on a mattress 118 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,399 in the living room, but at some point they left and Jerry was all 119 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:26,879 alone. Then that Sunday, September twenty ninth, a child found a cassette 120 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,200 tape near an apartment complex swimming pool in Jasper. It was turned into the 121 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:39,240 authorities as abandoned property. According to the Birmingham Post, Harold Jerry's wife, 122 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:45,240 Sheila, made the tape. Sheila thought Jerry was cheating on her and she 123 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,399 was trying to catch him in the act. Instead, Sheila had inadvertently recorded 124 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:56,200 Jerry and Karen macpherson planning to kidnap and kill someone for money, not Carrie 125 00:10:56,279 --> 00:11:01,519 Lawson. Though initially the plan was to abduct a lie local wealthy coal executive 126 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:07,320 named Ellis Taylor. The Daily Mountain reported that Karen and Jerry had also been 127 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:15,360 considering targeting former Alabama First Lady Lisa Taylor. Wallace. For whatever reason, 128 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:20,840 Jerry and Karen pivoted to Carrie Lawson instead. Carrie's family assumed Jerry knew of 129 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:28,519 Earl Lawson Senior's successful auto parts shop. Karen McPherson's family said that Jerry told 130 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,879 her he chose Carrie because he knew Earl Lawson's daddy was rich. I don't 131 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:37,720 think it's a big mystery. Jerry Bland was aware of the prominent Jasper families 132 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,879 and seemed to have done his research. But I reckon if he had known 133 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:46,759 more about Carrie's background and that her folks were millionaires, he might have asked 134 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:54,519 for a bigger ransom. Regardless, law enforcement knew Jerry was involved, they 135 00:11:54,600 --> 00:12:00,080 knew Karen was involved. They searched Jerry's home and were watching it closely that 136 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,639 on Monday, September thirtieth, they searched Karen's home. There, agents found 137 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,480 thousands of dollars in cash with the serial numbers corresponding to the ransom money, 138 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:16,360 just like they had found in Jerry's truck. Shortly after, Karen verified to 139 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:22,799 the authorities that she had indeed helped Jerry kidnap Carrie Lawson. She told investigators 140 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,720 that her job was to act as the nurse who lured Carrie and Earl out 141 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:33,879 of the house. She had also dropped Jerry off at the Lawson home afterward. 142 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:39,000 She was in charge of supervising Carrie for several hours while Jerry organized the 143 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:45,360 ransom exchange, But much to the FBI's dismay, Karen said she didn't know 144 00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:50,840 where Carrie was now. Karen claimed that the last time she saw Carrie was 145 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:56,360 two days after the kidnapping, September thirteenth. Now it was the last day 146 00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:01,639 of September, and while Karen said car was alive the last time she saw 147 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,840 her, that had been weeks ago. Anything could have happened since then. 148 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:11,320 According to Karen, Jerry told her that Carrie had escaped when he left her 149 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,320 alone for a while, but the authorities were pretty sure that was a lie. 150 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:22,960 Still, investigators were feeling optimistic. District Attorney Charles Baker told the Birmingham 151 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,320 Post Harold that on Monday night he thought they had Jerry nailed to the wall. 152 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,559 At this point, Jerry knew he was in trouble, among many other 153 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:37,080 things. It doesn't sound like the FBI was subtle about staking out his house. 154 00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:41,960 As a result, Jerry's family had helped him find a lawyer, so 155 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:48,360 Da Baker and Jerry's lawyer were negotiating terms. The FBI wanted to dangle a 156 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,159 carrot in front of Jerry so that he would tell them where Carrie was. 157 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,279 For hours on Monday night, Baker, Carrie's husband, Earl, and ten 158 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,799 other lawyers discussed possible charges for Jerry. They didn't want Jerry to respond violently 159 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:09,840 when the agents entered his home. They also knew it was a real possibility 160 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:13,759 that Jerry could harm himself, an officer, or both. The group of 161 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,720 lawyers decided to convene a special grand jury at nine am that Tuesday morning, 162 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:24,720 October first. By then, Carrie would have been missing for three weeks, 163 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,440 twenty one days, and five hundred and four hours, countless minutes and seconds. 164 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,360 For her devastated family, there was really no hope that she was still 165 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:41,440 alive. So the DA was going to try to indict Jerry Bland for capital 166 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:48,240 murder, but they waited too late to arrest him. On Tuesday, October 167 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:52,159 first, nineteen ninety one, at about four thirty am, the FBI agents 168 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:58,519 watching fifty year old Jerry Bland's house heart a gunshot, but instead of rushing 169 00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:03,759 the house, the officers waited until daylight to enter Jerry's home. When they 170 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,720 did, they saw that Jerry had died by a self inflicted gunshot wound. 171 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,559 He had pointed a thirty caliber Winchester rifle at his heart while sitting on the 172 00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:16,279 bed in an upstairs bedroom. The bullet exited out of his lower back, 173 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:22,600 hit the bedroom wall, and then slammed into the house next door. Luckily, 174 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:28,240 no one else was harmed. For the record, several newspapers reported that 175 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,360 Jerry shot himself in the head, so there were conflicting reports. For some 176 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:37,399 reason, Jerry wrote a letter before pulling the trigger. The full contents of 177 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,639 that letter have never been released, but we do know a few facts about 178 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:46,039 it. It was addressed to Jerry's lawyer, Michael Shores. It was two 179 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:52,639 pages long and handwritten, and there was no mention of Carrie Lawson or any 180 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,480 hints about her whereabouts. Instead, Jerry wrote about two men and the town 181 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:04,720 of Hayley. According to Michael Shores, these men and Hayleyville were somehow involved 182 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:10,120 in a drug deal that Jerry may have been involved in. In the note, 183 00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:14,440 Jerry claimed that the cash in his pickup truck was from that drug deal, 184 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:18,639 which was a lie since the cash in his truck was a portion of 185 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,759 the ransom money. The FBI had already confirmed the serial numbers and were sure 186 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:30,159 this drug deals story by Jerry was never confirmed or resolved in any way. 187 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,799 We have no idea what Jerry was talking about. Some suspect that Jerry was 188 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,919 trying to cover for an unknown third party who was involved in the kidnapping, 189 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,919 but there is no credible or authoritative support for this theory. I have a 190 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,840 theory about this that I'll get into later. By the end of it all, 191 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:56,120 approximately ninety eight percent of the ransom money was recovered. Jerry had spent 192 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:02,000 about eight thousand dollars on various items around Jasper, including a TV satellite dish, 193 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,680 and as you know, there was some money in Karen's house, so 194 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:11,039 where was the rest. Well. Following Jerry's death, the authority searched his 195 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:17,359 house again. This time they found approximately two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in 196 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,039 the attic. Law enforcement has suggested that this money wasn't in Jerry's house the 197 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,920 first time they searched it, though some doubt that that is true. The 198 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,759 FBI was already facing so much backlash for this case that they may have been 199 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:37,480 motivated to mislead the public to mitigate the fallout. But I mean, for 200 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,680 real, who was going to sneak into Jerry's house and hide the money while 201 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:47,880 the FBI were watching him or right after his death? How would that work? 202 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,799 It would actually make the FBI look even worse. And let's talk about 203 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:57,079 the FBI for a moment. As you might imagine, Jerry Bland's death was 204 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:03,559 devastating news to Carry's family. The one person in the entire world who knew 205 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:11,720 where Carry was was now gone. His suicide was entirely avoidable, ridiculously avoidable. 206 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:15,519 They had his voice on the ransom tapes. They found marijuana in his 207 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,680 home, he had over eight thousand dollars of the ransom money in his truck, 208 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:25,920 and they had found multiple guns in his house and knew that the kidnapper 209 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,759 had held the lossons at gunpoint. Come on, police and agents did not 210 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,960 need an indictment to enter that house. I just gave you a whole list 211 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,759 of probable causes for an arrest or exigent circumstances, or reasonable suspicion. Take 212 00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:45,720 your pick of what to call it beyond that if the FBI were worried about 213 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,359 federal charges, they could have sent Jasper police or Walker County in on state 214 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,319 charges. And it's not like the FBI didn't know all of this. Carrie's 215 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,039 sister, Margaret later told al dot com. I can remember one of the 216 00:19:02,079 --> 00:19:06,319 Feds saying, look, he had marijuana in the house. Let's just arrest 217 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,359 him on a drug charge, get him in jail. I remember someone saying 218 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,680 he could kill himself. She has also said that even though the FBI was 219 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,599 in charge of the investigation, they had been planning to send local Jasper police 220 00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:26,039 officers in to arrest Jerry, And she said that the FBI was only watching 221 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,680 the front of the house. The back was wide open. I haven't found 222 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,279 that anywhere else as a fact. But I also don't believe she was lying 223 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:38,119 about it. Why in the world would she. Someone had to have told 224 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,680 her that. But stories have a way of changing over the years, of 225 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,480 becoming more exaggerated, especially when we're talking about the colossal failures of something as 226 00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:53,839 big as the FBI. By the end of it all, Margaret believed the 227 00:19:53,880 --> 00:20:00,240 situation was poorly handled, which all things considered, was a pretty nice way 228 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,640 of saying it. I'm going to pause now to hear a word from our 229 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:14,680 sponsors. Support for today's episode comes from Honeylove. It's time to upgrade your 230 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,559 uncomfortable shapewear, whether you've got a wedding to attend or want to look your 231 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,960 best at a fabulous summer party. 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Earnin is 273 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,240 a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank products are issued by Evolved 274 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:32,359 Bank and Trust member FDIC. Carrie's sister, Margaret also seems to have been 275 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,319 drawn into some of the conspiracy theories. She said, I still don't know 276 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,400 why they didn't arrest him. The whole Jerry Bland suicide is very suspicious and 277 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:48,519 it's very possible somebody else killed him. It's hard to blame her. She 278 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,920 and her family were left with so few answers. I personally think it's doubtful 279 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:59,519 that someone else killed Jerry Bland with police watching his house, but I do 280 00:23:59,599 --> 00:24:06,480 understand the suspicions. Carrie's father, David Smith said to the Birmingham Post, 281 00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:10,759 Harold, this is not one of the FBI's better cases, and I'm sure 282 00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:15,160 no one knows that better than they do. The FBI rarely speaks about cases 283 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:21,240 to the public, but this time public perception of their work was so bad 284 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,960 that they did comment. FBI representatives claimed that since Jerry had not crossed state 285 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:33,680 lines while kidnapping Carry, this was not technically a federal crime. The federal 286 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,400 agents were supposedly waiting to arrest Jerry after the state had charged him, but 287 00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:44,519 reports from the Birmingham Post Harold suggest that the FBI wasn't waiting on anything of 288 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:49,519 the sort. These BPH articles suggest that federal agents thought Jerry was going to 289 00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:55,400 exit his house and lead them to carry, but obviously Jerry didn't do that. 290 00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:00,720 It should be noted that the BPH articles do not directly quote an FBI 291 00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:07,400 representative or agent, even as an unnamed source, but it certainly makes sense 292 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:14,640 they were just sitting and watching. It's unclear what exactly happened. It probably 293 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:21,359 always will be. However, the criticisms of the FBI's decision making throughout Carrie's 294 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,759 case are incredibly far reaching. In nineteen ninety three, Washington Post reporter Ron 295 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:33,039 Kessler wrote a book entitled the FBI Inside the World's Most Powerful law enforcement Agency. 296 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,200 In this book, Kessler claimed that Carrie Lawson's case was one of the 297 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:45,200 agency's biggest failures. The FBI agent in charge of Carrie's case, Alan P. 298 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:49,359 Whittaker, said, in direct response to Kessler's book, It's obvious we're 299 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,759 not happy with the result of the kidnapping investigation. Do I think it was 300 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:57,920 one of the agency's biggest failures. No, I don't, but it wasn't 301 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,960 one of our shining sexsesses. But Agent Whittaker retired in May of nineteen ninety 302 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:10,079 three, just eight months after Jerry Blend's death by suicide in October of ninety 303 00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:15,559 two. Before retiring, Agent Whittaker had served twenty eight years with the Bureau, 304 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,480 and Kessler wrote in his book that it's likely FBI Director William Baker pushed 305 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:29,400 Whittaker into retirement due in part to the mishandling of Carrie's case. Agent Whittaker 306 00:26:29,599 --> 00:26:33,559 denied those claims. In interviews with the Birmingham Post Harold He said he retired 307 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:40,319 for unrelated reasons. Earl Lawson seemed to be the only one who really defended 308 00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:45,200 the FBI. He told al dot com that for sure, mistakes were made, 309 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,039 but quote, those guys gave two hundred percent every day, every minute 310 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,000 they cried with us. If mistakes were made, it wasn't because of a 311 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:59,720 lack of effort. They cared and tried their very hardest. It was personal 312 00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:07,200 to them now. Carrie's husband directed his ire at Jerry Bland. He said, 313 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,000 I couldn't help but think that anybody would tell or leave a note about 314 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:18,079 where she was. The fact that Bland killed himself without doing anything is incomprehensible 315 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,759 to me. Following Bland's death, the search for Carrie Lawson was renewed. 316 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:30,720 Law enforcement and volunteers focused on locations where Jerry was familiar and had worked, 317 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,720 especially places related to the coal mining business, since coal mining had basically always 318 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:42,359 been Jerry Bland's career. They also scoured the areas near various pathons that Jerry 319 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:48,240 and Carrie had used. In the end, nothing was discovered that led to 320 00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:53,119 the recovery of Carrie's body, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Searchers 321 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:59,880 used horses, pickup trucks, and ATVs to sweep miles and miles of land. 322 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:06,319 Divers comed through rivers, people walked through overgrown, snake filled rural areas 323 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,599 of Alabama. The University of Alabama, ore OTC, and the National Guard 324 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:18,519 joined the search in early October. For about six weeks, thousands of people 325 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:23,559 tried to find Carrie. According to those present, multiple bodies were discovered in 326 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:29,400 the search process. The names of those poor souls were never released in the 327 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:36,200 sources we found, But the searchers never found Carrie. Her whereabouts or her 328 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:41,640 remains were etched into the top of everyone's minds, especially her families. Her 329 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:47,599 mother, Harriet Smith said to the Birmingham Post, Harold, there's not a 330 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,079 single minute when we are not thinking about this situation. She also told the 331 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,519 BPH that when her other daughter, Margaret, got married a year after Carrie 332 00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:02,240 was abducted, she couldn't help but look for her daughter's face and the bridesmaids 333 00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:07,400 as they walked down the aisle. I knew better, she said, but 334 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,960 these things cross your mind. That's why this thing needs closure, because we 335 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:18,680 can't stop. We can't quit until we know. I don't think anyone can 336 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:23,960 understand the deep sorrow and never ending ache felt by parents who cannot lay their 337 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,319 children to rest, except for other parents who have lived through this horror. 338 00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:36,680 By October twenty second, nineteen ninety one, the search for Carrie had officially 339 00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:41,599 ended. The FBI was closing the investigation, but over the years there were 340 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:48,759 additional targeted searches. In early November of ninety one, about fifty people conducted 341 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:53,960 a shoulder to shoulder search in the deer Lick Creek area of Tuscaloosa County. 342 00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:00,079 They wanted to ensure that Mitchell Neely mindes were clear. Jerry knew these minds 343 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,000 had traveled to them before for business and had been near there during some of 344 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,359 the phone calls he made while he was holding Carrie. That is an incredible 345 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:17,880 lead, which led to heartbreaking frustration when searchers found nothing. Then five years 346 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,359 later, in nineteen ninety six, a construction crew emptied a pool at a 347 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:27,519 different closed surface mine in Tuscaloosa County. They used an excavator to rip up 348 00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:33,720 the bottom of the pool, but searchers were again disappointed, as if Carrie's 349 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:37,920 family did not have enough to endure. In March of nineteen ninety two, 350 00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:45,200 a man named Perry Jerome Black pled guilty in federal court for extorting Carrie's family. 351 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,279 Harry, who lived in northern Alabama, had called and sent letters to 352 00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:56,319 Carrie's husband and her parents. He claimed that he had information about where Carrie 353 00:30:56,359 --> 00:31:00,839 was, but he demanded money to tell them that information. Harry was sentenced 354 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,839 to seventy months in prison and three years of probation, so he got almost 355 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:14,640 six years. This was only one of several extortion attempts the Lawson and Smith 356 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,400 families were forced to navigate. Details of these other attempts were not provided in 357 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:26,319 the papers, but Margaret, Carrie's sister, also confirmed there were several attempts 358 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:33,440 and that it was agonizing for her parents. Eight months after Carrie was kidnapped, 359 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,119 her husband, Earle, moved away from Jasper. Earle said that it 360 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,920 was difficult to try and live a normal life when every person in town always 361 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:48,480 wanted to talk about Carrie's abduction. He remarried and had three children. By 362 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,279 his own admission, Earle doesn't talk about Carrie's case often, but he will 363 00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:59,759 always remember how kind people were to him and Carrie's family throughout the ordeal. 364 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,480 He recalled to al dot com how many people who didn't know Carrie, or 365 00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:10,720 the Losses or the Smiths at all still took the time to help look for 366 00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:17,079 her. Unfortunately, there are other people who still whisper that Earl had something 367 00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:22,279 to do with his young wife's kidnapping. They whispered it at the time, 368 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:28,640 and even more when he moved away from Jasper and remarried. I can't imagine 369 00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:34,799 living that way. I completely understand why he moved. It doesn't mean he 370 00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:40,039 didn't love her Like everyone else, he believed she was dead and he needed 371 00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:45,319 to be able to get up and go to work every day without being consumed 372 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,160 by this tragedy. He had to try and move on with his life. 373 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,200 That's not a crime. He tries not to think about it, but told 374 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:59,880 a reporter that the continued rumors have always hurt him. Of course it bothered 375 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,880 me, he said. It still bothers me, and it bothers me that 376 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:08,599 my kids have to read stuff like that. I have already mentioned some of 377 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:15,200 the comments of Carrie's sister, Margaret Smith Cubson. Some were made to a 378 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:21,640 podcaster that show has since pod faded, not putting out any episodes since twenty 379 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,960 twenty, but the host said some concerning things on her show, including calling 380 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,160 Carey's husband Earle shady mc shaterson, which I think is very problematic. But 381 00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:37,000 to be fair, Margaret herself refused to outright say her ex brother in law 382 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:44,119 was not involved in Carrie's abduction. She said no comment when asked, but 383 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:50,880 she did allude to suspicious things about Earl's law firm. David Smith, Carrie's 384 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,640 father, also hinted around about this conspiracy, though he never outright accused the 385 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:02,160 Lawsons or the firm Earl worked for. There has never been any proof that 386 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:07,119 Earl Lawson had anything to do with his wife's subduction, and I honestly think 387 00:34:07,159 --> 00:34:12,760 we need to let that particular conspiracy theory die. I mean, really, 388 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,800 what would his motive be. Margaret said that Carrie had a life insurance policy, 389 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,079 but that their father, David was the beneficiary, and he wound up 390 00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:28,599 putting all of that money into private investigators and other resources trying to find his 391 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,880 daughter. Earl Lawson Junior came from a rich family. He had a great 392 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,960 career at a prosperous law firm. For that matter, why would his firm 393 00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:44,599 be involved in this, as has also been hinted at. I understand the 394 00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:50,000 pain of Carrie's family and their need to cling to certain theories, but I 395 00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:53,840 think the whispers about Earl are very unfair and hurtful, and I want to 396 00:34:53,840 --> 00:35:00,400 make sure that's clear on this show. I'm going to pause now offer a 397 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:10,760 short commercial break. I should also briefly discuss that there's a lot of stuff 398 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:16,559 on the internet about corruption in Walker County and nefarious goings on. You can 399 00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:21,639 even find Reddit threads about the county, and I told you the urban myth 400 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,039 about Walker County being the place to find a hit man. Frankly, most 401 00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:30,800 of this stuff comes from the comments section, and we all know how reliable 402 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,360 those can be. But Carrie's case is mentioned a lot in these forums. 403 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,320 Even though the FBI was far from perfect in this case, it's ridiculous to 404 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:45,800 believe they actually conspired with local authorities to cover up the truth about Carrie's abduction. 405 00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:52,639 Everyone wanted to bring Carrie Lawson home. Her sister Margaret even went out 406 00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:57,079 of her way to praise the Jasper Police Department, even though she was rightly 407 00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:02,239 critical of the FBI. Two years after the abduction, in September of ninety 408 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:08,000 three, Carrie Smith Lawson was officially declared dead. Her grave is in the 409 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:15,199 Saint Luke's Episcopal Church Cemetery in Cleveland, Tennessee. Her father was buried in 410 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,599 the same location when he passed away at the age of eighty three in twenty 411 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,400 seventeen. Her mother, Harriet, passed away at the age of seventy two 412 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:30,800 in two thousand eight. Margaret told al dot com how not finding Carrie quote 413 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:38,000 devastated my parents. I honestly believe the trauma exacerbated my mother's Alzheimer's and it 414 00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:45,400 certainly broke all of our hearts. Margaret also said that her father had spent 415 00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:50,519 hundreds of thousands of dollars attempting to find Carrie. She said it was hurtful 416 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,320 that her father had to worry about money in his final years after putting almost 417 00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,440 everything he had into trying to find his lost daughter. She made up clear 418 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:05,079 that he was not destitute, but he certainly didn't enjoy the kind of retirement 419 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,320 he deserved. For more than a decade, Carrie's family hired more than seven 420 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:16,480 private investigators to look for her. One in particular, named Woodrow Wilson's self, 421 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,639 who went by Red, became very close with the Smith family. He 422 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:29,519 was a former Birmingham police officer and District Attorney's Office investigator. Red continued searching 423 00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:32,679 for Carrie until the day he died at the age of ninety one in two 424 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:38,559 thousand and nine. Using information that Red found, Carrie's family tried to get 425 00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:44,440 the FBI to reopen the case in the year two thousand. They were unsuccessful 426 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,159 However, in two thousand and two, a tip led the authorities to look 427 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:55,039 near a Tuscaloosa County community called Samantha. Crews used tobacco to look for Carrie's 428 00:37:55,079 --> 00:38:02,360 remains, but still she was never found. Although Jerry Bland is dead and 429 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:08,039 gone, perhaps slamming shut the door of ever finding Carrey's remains, there is 430 00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:15,079 one person that family friends in the community can focus on. Back in November 431 00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:21,079 of nineteen ninety one, thirty year old Karen Lancaster Macpherson, Jerry's cousin, 432 00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:25,320 and the fake nurse, led guilty to first degree kidnapping. In doing so, 433 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:32,079 Karen avoided the possibility of facing the death penalty for capital murder. Instead, 434 00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:38,559 she received life in prison with the possibility of parole, but the presiding 435 00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:44,960 judge, James C. Brotherton, explicitly stated that he did not want Karen 436 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:51,280 to ever receive parole. He said the court permanently objects to it. District 437 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:58,199 Attorney Charles Baker told reporters that the judge's statement reflected the community's feelings. Baker 438 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,519 basically said that when j Mary died, everyone redirected their anger at Karen. 439 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,880 Karen's family would later say this was unfair. Karen was not the mastermind of 440 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,159 the kidnapping plot. Jerry was. Karen's defense attorney stated that nobody questions she 441 00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:22,199 didn't want to harm anybody, but Carrie's family believed and still believes, that 442 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:30,199 Karen should take responsibility for her actions. Karen spent hours with Carrie without Jerry. 443 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,760 What was stopping her from helping carry escape? If Karen was truly blackmailed 444 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,280 into kidnapping Carrie, as her family has suggested, she could have gone to 445 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,480 the authorities after Jerry let her leave and he took back control of Carrie. 446 00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:50,480 Instead, Karen took whatever her cut of the ransom money was and she kept 447 00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:55,039 quiet. This amount was not disclosed, but based on quick math, it 448 00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:00,079 was likely around forty thousand dollars. I'm just thinking that Jerry had about two 449 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:06,000 hundred and sixty thousand accounted for in his home, truck and what we know 450 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:12,000 he had already spent, but this is just a guess. Within a year 451 00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,800 after Carrie's abduction, her family made a legal agreement with Karen. If she 452 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:22,119 would provide one hundred percent of the information she knew about Carrie, the Smiths 453 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,280 and the Lawsons would not oppose her parole after she served ten years in prison. 454 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,280 Her the agreement, Karen had to take a polygraph test, undergo hypnosis, 455 00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:37,840 and be analyzed by a voice expert to determine if she was lying. 456 00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:43,039 Karen agreed and met with Carrie's father, David, to tell him all she 457 00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:49,239 knew. David Smith expressed to al dot com how difficult the four and a 458 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,639 half hour long meeting was for him. He said, I had to just 459 00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:57,280 sit there and listen to her. I couldn't grab her and choke her or 460 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,000 anything like that. Ultimately, this was all for naught. A voice analyst 461 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:07,480 listened to an audio of the meeting and believed Karen was lying. That same 462 00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:13,920 night, Karen's lawyers called the Smiths and lawsons she wanted to recant everything Karen 463 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:21,480 had said. Nothing she told David was true. Since Karen's initial incarceration in 464 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:24,719 nineteen ninety one, she has tried to withdraw her guilty plea and seek a 465 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:30,599 retrial. She has been denied. Karen has sought parole four times. She 466 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:37,239 has been denied all four times. One or more members of Carrie's family have 467 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,920 been present at every parole hearing. As of twenty sixteen, Earl Lawson Junior 468 00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:45,639 has not yet attended any of the hearings, but he did write letters to 469 00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:51,920 the court opposing Karen's release. Earl said to AL dot com she could have 470 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,679 released her. She could have done a million different things, and she chose 471 00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:00,000 not to. I don't know how a human being does that. Today. 472 00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:05,920 Karen is about sixty three years old. She continues to serve her life sentence 473 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,440 in a Birmingham prison her the Alabama Department of Corrections. She has served almost 474 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,320 thirty three years so far. Her last bid for parole was denied in twenty 475 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:21,599 twenty two, and her next parole hearing is March first of twenty twenty seven. 476 00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:27,679 In twenty sixteen, her brother, Frank Lancaster told AL dot com, 477 00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:31,159 I don't disagree that my sister deserved to be punished. Twenty five years of 478 00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:36,199 her life are gone. The man who killed Carrie himself is dead. My 479 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,079 sister had a minor role in this. I know my sister, and if 480 00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:44,119 she had any inclination that there was going to be harmed unto Carrie, she 481 00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:47,639 wouldn't have done this. He went on, what more can she give? 482 00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,079 They've had their eye for an eye, their pound of flesh. This is 483 00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:59,480 no longer about justice, It's about vengeance. I have to admit that's a 484 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:07,039 powerful argument. I couldn't find any petitions opposing Karen's release online, or for 485 00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:12,159 that matter, supporting her release. But I'm sure if you wanted to set 486 00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,159 a reminder to write a letter to the Alabama Board of Pardons and Paroles, 487 00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:22,599 Carrie or Karen's family would appreciate it if that's how you feel. I feel 488 00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:28,880 conflicted about Karen. She certainly deserved prison time for her actions. If you 489 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,639 are involved in a felony conspiracy, you are charged with murder right along with 490 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,920 the actual killer. So it's not like her sentence is all that unusual. 491 00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:43,840 Margaret, who is a lawyer herself, points that out. The difference here 492 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:51,960 is parole. Everyone but Karen's family opposes her release beyond her own actions, 493 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:57,360 which are indeed very murky. Lying to a grieving father's face is cold blooded. 494 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,679 I can see why Carrie's family wants to just throw away the key. 495 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,000 I would too if this was my sister. But after thirty three years, 496 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,760 I really believe that if Karen did know where Carrie's body was, she would 497 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,840 have told the truth by now, she's already in prison for life and can't 498 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,760 be tried for capital murder because of her plea deal. Maybe she was more 499 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,559 complicit in Carrie's murder and just can't admit it to herself or anyone else, 500 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,800 and we only have her word and the note of a dead murderer to pen 501 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,400 her innocence on. I also can't help but put it in perspective with the 502 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,639 last case I covered, the murder of Charlotte Childs. That killer admitted to 503 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,639 viciously beating his ex girlfriend to death, and after twenty seven years, he 504 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:51,840 is a free man. I hated that deal, even though I understood and 505 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:58,320 respected the family's decision. If Karen McPherson had told the truth and tried to 506 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,719 bring Carrie home so her family could lay her to rest, she also would 507 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:07,400 be walking free today. She would have left prison at forty years old with 508 00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:12,719 plenty of life left to live ahead of her. That was Carrie's family's decision, 509 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,239 But Karen lied and recanted. She had her chance to do the right 510 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,320 thing, so we can never know what really happened. If Karen does know 511 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,639 anything about what happened to Carrie, she's obviously taken it to her grave. 512 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:40,079 I'm going to pause now for a final commercial break. Many, including some 513 00:45:40,119 --> 00:45:45,679 of Carrie's close family, believe that Carrie's remains are buried in a coal mine 514 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:51,199 somewhere. Some also believe that there were more people involved in the kidnapping than 515 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,800 just Jerry and Karen. Why did Jerry refer to they when talking about who 516 00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,800 was holding Carrie? Why did he write about two un known men and his 517 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,920 suicide note? In nineteen ninety two, Carrie's father David told the Birmingham Post 518 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,440 Harold, there's more people involved. There's some stuff I can't talk about now, 519 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,679 but one day it's going to come out. However, to date, 520 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:21,400 nothing has ever come out, and any rumors of additional suspects have not been 521 00:46:21,519 --> 00:46:25,920 verified by authorities. In short, based on the evidence available to the public, 522 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,400 it appears that only Jerry and Karen were at fault. Maybe the Smith 523 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,360 family or their private investigators know something we don't. I just feel like something 524 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:43,840 would have come out by now. And I know Ogham's razor is a trope, 525 00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:49,719 but it is a useful one. The simplest explanation is that Jerry Bland 526 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,679 needed money. He was born and raised in Jasper and knew the prominent loss 527 00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:59,400 and family had money. He had also worked in coal min's his entire adult 528 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,800 life. He knew where stripmans were all over Walker County and surrounding areas. 529 00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,000 I bet a guy like that knew a lot of places to hide a body, 530 00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:15,159 and maybe he never meant for Carrie to die. Frankly, everything about 531 00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:20,559 the ransom that could go wrong did go wrong. It wasn't an easy one 532 00:47:20,639 --> 00:47:23,800 night deal like he had planned. He spent time with her, having to 533 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:29,280 take her to paythones and hold her until he got the money and she had 534 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,320 seen his face. We don't know everything that was in his suicide note, 535 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,679 except that it would seem he didn't want Karen blamed, and if anything, 536 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,840 I believe shame was a big factor for the rest of it. It was 537 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,639 easier to blame it on random drug dealers than admit to what he did to 538 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:53,719 carry I think that's why he didn't tell where he hid her body. I 539 00:47:53,760 --> 00:48:00,039 think if police released the entire contents of Bland's suicide note, the pub the 540 00:48:00,039 --> 00:48:05,440 book might be able to see the ramblings of an ashamed guilty man. Or 541 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,159 maybe they could decide for themselves if any of the rumors are true at this 542 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:15,199 point, why hold it back? If anything, Things like this are why 543 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:21,039 folks whisper about corruption in Walker County. There's a lack of transparency here that 544 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:28,480 fuels the ongoing suspicions that Margaret and others still have. That is my theory 545 00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:32,440 that I mentioned about the possibility of a third party or more being involved in 546 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,039 Carrie's abduction and getting away with it. I don't believe there is a third 547 00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:43,159 party. I think the third party here is the guilt and shame of Jerry 548 00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:50,360 Bland and so now, regardless of any conspiracy theories, the actual search for 549 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,679 Carrie continues. If you have any information that could lead to Carry's whereabouts, 550 00:48:55,039 --> 00:49:02,480 contact the Birmingham FBI office or head to to do FBI dot gov. As 551 00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:08,000 of twenty sixteen, Carrie's family continued to offer a one hundred thousand dollars reward 552 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:15,000 for any information leading to Carrie. I'm not sure if the reward is still 553 00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:19,880 active in twenty twenty four, but reward or not, if you know something, 554 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,519 say something, do the right thing. People in this case refused to 555 00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:30,360 do the right thing and a family suffered greatly for it. Carrie's Alma mater 556 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:36,840 Cleveland High School has a Carrie Smith Lawson Scholarship Fund. The members of her 557 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:42,400 nineteen eighty four graduating class put this together to award a female senior two thousand 558 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:47,480 dollars. The winner of this scholarship must demonstrate the same positive traits that Carrie 559 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:57,119 embodied sterling character, a determination to excel, and a caring disposition. It's 560 00:49:57,199 --> 00:50:01,320 been thirty three years. Carrie's parents grieved for her for the rest of their 561 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:07,039 lives. Her sister, Margaret, continues to miss Carrie every day, but 562 00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:10,079 she does stress that life must go on. She must continue to get out 563 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:14,679 of bed every day and try to put carry out of her mind as she 564 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:19,400 takes care of her children and goes to work and church and just lives her 565 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,280 life. She has to, she told al dot Com in twenty sixteen. 566 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:30,639 What has been taken from me personally is immeasurable. I have four sisters in 567 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,960 law, and I'm close with them, but missing a sister is so difficult. 568 00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:39,639 That is the only person who shares your story. You lose your future 569 00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:46,119 and also your connection to the past. It was difficult for me to even 570 00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:51,519 read that quote. I have a sister, She's my only sibling. I 571 00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:55,960 cannot even imagine Margaret's grief. I have a lot of admiration for Margaret. 572 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,519 It's hard to get up every day and go on with your life after such 573 00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:06,000 a tragedy, especially one with no real closure. But she is strong and 574 00:51:06,079 --> 00:51:10,000 I love how she chooses to remember her sister as just a regular human being. 575 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,599 She said, her legacy is kindness and how you make an impact on 576 00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:22,320 people just by being thoughtful. She wasn't a spectacular student, she wasn't a 577 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,400 beauty queen. She wasn't someone who leaves their mark by being famous. But 578 00:51:27,559 --> 00:51:31,039 everyone that knew her felt like they were loved by her, and that was 579 00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:43,000 extraordinary. Southern Fried True Crime is hosted and produced by me Erica Kelly. 580 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,159 Today's episode was researched by me and Andrea Marshbank. As usual, any editorial 581 00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:52,360 comments and opinions are my own. Southern Frid's original music is by Rob Harrison 582 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,360 of Gamma Radio and the original graphic artist by Holy Horner. Today's episode was 583 00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:00,840 edited and mixed by Brandon scheck Schneider of Southern Gothic and Erica Kelly. Thank 584 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,960 you to listeners. Nocturnal Druid Reagan Williams and Amanda for suggesting Carrie's case. 585 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,239 I honestly was surprised it isn't more famous. Carrie's story needed to be told. 586 00:52:10,639 --> 00:52:15,639 If you have any suggestions, please go to my website, Southernfred Truecrime 587 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:22,079 dot com and click on the listener's suggestion tab or email SFTC Research at gmail 588 00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,639 dot com. This is the best way for me to get those little known 589 00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:30,079 cases. Y'all always send me. Please remember that I do not accept suggestions 590 00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:34,440 on social media private messages, but please come join our Facebook group, Southern 591 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,159 Fred Truecrime Fans Discussion Group, where we swap recipes, worship Dolly Parton, 592 00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:40,719 and share memes. We do, of course discuss true crime, not just 593 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,159 Southern Fried, but all kinds, but it is still very much a Southern 594 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,440 lifestyle group. 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