1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:43,200 in crime, Bill Thomas. Thank you so much for coming. We're so 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,600 excited to have you here for this live podcasting event. This is a very 11 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:51,479 first time we've hosted a podcast, let alone one that was also live recording 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,359 at the same time, so we're excited about it. I don't know if 13 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:58,880 you're familiar with the Mind over Murder podcast. How many people listen? Wonderful 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,600 yay, So I'm guessing you might know two of these people up here and 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,079 maybe more. We wanted to welcome Kristin Dilly and Bill Thomas along with their 16 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:17,159 guest Joyce Call Canada, who's the sister of Keith Call. This is definitely 17 00:01:17,159 --> 00:01:19,040 a different format for them, but they're gonna start with the presentation and then 18 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,319 there will be questions and answers afterwards, So hold your questions until then and 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,040 you'll be able to hang out on this awesome mic for those questions. Without 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,159 further ado, I'm gonna hand it off to Kristin and Bill and we'll go 21 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:34,120 ahead and start with our traditional opening. So thank you so much to everybody 22 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:38,120 you're listening to the Mind of a Murder podcast. I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm 23 00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:42,680 Bill Thomas, and we're here for a live podcasting event at the Yorktown Library 24 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:46,319 and this is definitely a first for us. Thank you to everybody who came 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,760 out tonight. We appreciate you so much. Give yourselves a NDI applause. 26 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,760 We're coming out with us. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 27 00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:57,799 So we're gonna go ahead and start with a little bit of a presentation. 28 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:00,000 We know not everybody comes to the case with the same amount of information, 29 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,200 so we will go ahead and talk a little bit about us as a podcast, 30 00:02:05,239 --> 00:02:07,879 and then we'll get into case specific details. So a little bit about 31 00:02:07,879 --> 00:02:14,000 Bill and I. We are obviously true crime podcasters and victims' advocates. Bill 32 00:02:14,159 --> 00:02:17,639 is the brother of Kathy Thomas, who was the first victim along with her 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:23,280 girlfriend Rebecca Adowski, in the Colonial Parkway murders. And I am an advocate 34 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:25,479 who in twenty sixteen cold called Bill and said, Hey, I think I'd 35 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,000 like to write a book about your case. And he said that's a little 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,599 weird, but okay. So and after extensively vetting me for a couple of 37 00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:37,039 hours, he was like, yeah, I think she's fine. So we 38 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,280 have been working together on this podcast since January twenty twenty. We're in our 39 00:02:39,319 --> 00:02:44,879 fourth successful season with more than one point five million downloads to date, and 40 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:53,159 I don't know how that happened. We are dedicated to exploring and discussing all 41 00:02:53,199 --> 00:02:57,919 of the facets of the Colonial of Parkway murders, case forensics, investigation, 42 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,719 suspects. We rile up the FBI occasionally. They don't seem to enjoy that 43 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,680 very much, but we get some fun out of it. Right. Fun 44 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:09,159 might not be exactly how I put it, but our goal ultimately is to 45 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:14,080 be advocates for the victims and their families, like Bill and Joyce. And 46 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,319 we want to thank you guys again so much for being here tonight for our 47 00:03:16,439 --> 00:03:21,520 very first live event. This is very new and a little terrifying, but 48 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:23,680 we're just going to do our best. Yeah, because usually when we're doing 49 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,639 the podcast. Now, I live in Connecticut, Kristin lives in Williamsburg, 50 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:30,759 just down the road. I guess that might be up the road anyway, 51 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:37,800 which every direction over there. Normally when we're doing Mind over Murder, we're 52 00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:40,879 just looking at each other, and for example, if we have Joyce on 53 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,400 as a guest, so there might be two people on the screen in front 54 00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:50,240 of you. We're doing it remotely, and we know we're talking to ultimately 55 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:53,639 millions of people, but you try not to think about that, and you're 56 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:59,400 mostly focused on the conversation and maybe your notes in front of you and talking 57 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,000 to your guests. Kristen said earlier, we've never done this with a room 58 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:06,159 full of people, so this is all on experiment. I do teach in 59 00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:12,000 front of teenagers on the regular, so you guys are a much less demanding 60 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,040 audience. Thank you for that. You're not as tough as a room full 61 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,560 of teenagers. We hope that you enjoy the presentation this evening, and we 62 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,000 are happy to take your questions afterward. Also, so far, I don't 63 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,600 know a lot about the teenagers you teach, but based on what you've told 64 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,759 me, these folks seem better behaved generally. Yes, yes, absolutely, 65 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,800 thank you very much for that. By the way, so obviously we've done 66 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,920 some brief introductions already, Phil, Joyce, and Kristen, and we want 67 00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:43,439 to spend a little bit of time before we start letting Bill and Joyce talk 68 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:46,000 about their loved ones. Bill, can you give us a couple of words 69 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,879 about Kathy to start us off, please. The Colonial Parkway murders begin sadly 70 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:54,920 with the murder of my sister Kathy Thomas, who's three years stronger than I 71 00:04:54,959 --> 00:04:59,680 am, along with her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski, whom we had not met at 72 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,959 the time time of their murder. We were supposed to meet Becky, her 73 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,800 new girlfriend, at Thanksgiving that year, and those of you that know anything 74 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,199 about the history of the case know that Kathy and Becky died in October nineteen 75 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,279 eighty six. A little bit of bragging about Kathy, she really is an 76 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:20,560 amazing pioneer. Let me give you a few facts about Kathy. None of 77 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,120 this is as a result of anything I did. This is my sister's doing. 78 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:29,160 She was graduate of the United States Naval Academy in the second class with 79 00:05:29,319 --> 00:05:32,800 women. At a time when I wouldn't be exaggerating at all to say this, 80 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:40,600 the Navy was extremely unwelcoming of women heading towards command. The Naval Academy 81 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:45,480 wasn't much better. So there was a tremendous amount of flat out harassment and 82 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:48,079 they were made to feel incredibly unwelcome. And this carried over by the way 83 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,600 into the fleet. So when I meet young naval officers, both women and 84 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,920 men, now I love hearing no one's saying it's perfect. The military is 85 00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:01,120 always going to be a challenge in career choice. It sounds like things have 86 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,519 come a long way. Clearly, we all know, especially the women in 87 00:06:04,519 --> 00:06:09,240 the room, that we have a lot more work to do. Kathy and 88 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,160 her classmates are an amazing group of women and men, but those women in 89 00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:17,839 particular really stand out. Kathy's graduate of the Naval Academy. My father, 90 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,199 Joe Thomas, graduated from the Naval Academy as well in fifty three. My 91 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:29,680 older brother Richard graduated from Annapolis in seventy five. They're the first father daughter 92 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,600 son graduates of the Naval Academy. It's happened a bunch since, but somebody 93 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:39,959 had to be first, and it was Kathy. She graduated and she served 94 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,000 in the Navy for five years. She served aboard the submarine tender, the 95 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,000 l Y Spear, which was homeported here in Norfolk. She made a decision 96 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,839 to leave the Navy after five years. If you go to Annapolis or any 97 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:56,600 of the service academies, they educate you for four uo the services five. 98 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,720 She made a decision to leave the Navy as a result of being investigated for 99 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,959 being a lesbian, which she was, and she felt like this wasn't the 100 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,279 right time or the right place for her, despite the fact that she had 101 00:07:10,319 --> 00:07:13,959 helped to have a long navy career like my dad had and my older brother 102 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,240 Richard did. She was working as a stockbroker in Virginia Beach at the time 103 00:07:17,279 --> 00:07:21,399 of her death, and she's survived by me. I'm her middle brother, 104 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,680 my older brother Richard, and our younger brother, Jack Thomas. We also 105 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,040 have a half sister through the wonders of DNA, the amazing things you can 106 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:34,160 discover on ancestry dot com. You have a half sister, you don't know 107 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:43,319 anything about Stephanie as well. And then Joyce, funny, you spend a 108 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,079 couple of minutes and tell us a little bit about Keith. You can see 109 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:51,199 on the screen right back there, Keith to your microphone. Joyce, by 110 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:57,800 the way, loves public speaking. It's her favorite thing. Keith was my 111 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,439 younger brother. He's seven years younger. There was five of us in the 112 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:07,439 family. He turned nineteen on March eighth, and he was murdered on April 113 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,000 the tenth, so just a month after he turned nineteen years old. He 114 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,319 was still a kid. I still called him a kid. He was attending 115 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:20,279 his first year at Christopher Newport College it was then Christopher Newport University, and 116 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,480 he was going for computer science. He liked computers, even back then, 117 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:28,399 in nineteen eighty eight, before they were the thing. He was really into 118 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:31,759 it. All in all, I didn't get beat up by Keith like my 119 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,519 younger brother Doug did. Here so said he. All in all, Keith 120 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:39,960 was just a regular good kid. I know, he wasn't perfect, but 121 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,679 he went to school he was going to school, he worked part time, 122 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:48,799 he graduated from high school. He was happy, He enjoyed harassing the youngest 123 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:52,759 brother here, Steven a lot, and just he had his whole life ahead 124 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,559 of him. So it was five of us in the family, so it 125 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,759 could be a little chaotic at times. And I don't know. He just 126 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,200 left one evening to go out with a friends and never came back home. 127 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,240 That was it. That's what happened. Thank you, Joyce for telling us 128 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,720 about Keith. Does bring us to our overview of the Colonial Parkway murders. 129 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:15,679 Now, because many of you have said that you are fans of the podcast, 130 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,639 Thank you, You're probably very familiar with the overview that we're going to 131 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:20,960 give you, but we are going to get into some territory that you may 132 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,480 not be familiar with. So if you're familiar with the case already, just 133 00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:26,360 hang in here with us for a couple of minutes so as you can see 134 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,720 on the map behind us, and it's also on the screen right behind you, 135 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,720 by the way, in case you don't want to look over our shoulders. 136 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:35,639 The Colonial Parkway murders essentially are a series of four double homicides from nineteen 137 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,279 eighty six to nineteen eighty nine, with recent events unfolding the way that we 138 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,039 have also learned that there is another case with relation to the Colonial Parkway murders, 139 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:48,120 and that is the murder of Teresa Howell in nineteen eighty nine. So 140 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,120 at some point or another, we're going to have to update this map. 141 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:54,879 Yep. So the Colonial Parkway murders victims are as followers, and I would 142 00:09:54,879 --> 00:09:58,559 like to put them up here on screen so that you can see them. 143 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,600 Anna, Maria Fell, Rebecca Dawski, Cassandra Haley, Kathy Thomas, daniel 144 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:09,759 Lewler, David Nobley, and Keith Call and Robin Edwards something. Let me 145 00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:13,200 add something here to. We have postcards here which we want to encourage you 146 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:18,320 to take, particularly the postcards about Alan Wade Wilmer. Will we talk about 147 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,879 him in a minute. The photographs of the victims, and that map which 148 00:10:22,919 --> 00:10:26,360 we actually reference all the time. All of them are there available. So 149 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:31,559 if you flip over the postcard, there's the map on the backside with all 150 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,120 of the detail that you're seeing there. And A we really appreciate your interest, 151 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,120 but B we know we're going to hit you with a lot of information 152 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,480 tonight before we get to the questions and answers. So that's what those are 153 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,080 there for, so please feel free to take them, especially the Wilmer postcard, 154 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:54,000 which we just had printed up specially for tonight. Bill. You're typically 155 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,480 tend to do the best summary of this, so do you really quickly want 156 00:10:56,519 --> 00:11:01,080 to go through a quick summary of the four cases? Will continue, okay 157 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,840 with the Colonial Parkway murders. What I've said for years is you have strange 158 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,919 sequence of events. It's four couples, a lesbian couple and three straight couples. 159 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,200 It's actually a three year period from beginning to end nineteen eighty six to 160 00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:20,240 nineteen eighty nine. You've got a situation where you have two FBI cases, 161 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:26,480 Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, and the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley. 162 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,519 Both of those incidents happened on the Colonial Parkway. As best we can tell, 163 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,320 as as we'll get into some conversation with Joyce about this, We're not 164 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,960 even one hundred percent certain that Keith and Sandy ever made it to the Parkway. 165 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,440 All we know is that his car was found on the parkway. So 166 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:50,320 incidents one in three the odd numbers are FBI cases Incidents two and four. 167 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,759 The even numbers are Virginia State Police cases the murder of David Lee Knobling and 168 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,399 Robin Edwards, And of course we had the very exciting news, which we'll 169 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,960 talk about in more depth in a few minutes. That case is now effectively 170 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:11,360 solved, with the exciting development that finally, through DNA testing, identified Alan 171 00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:16,840 Wade Wilmer Senior as the killer of Robin Edwards and David Nobling. Skipping ahead 172 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:22,320 to incident number four, Daniel Lower and Anna Maria Phelps. They are traveling 173 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:31,000 along Interstate sixty four over Labor Day weekend and they are found probably stabbed to 174 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,320 death at a hunt club off Interstate sixty four. Kristin and I we spend 175 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:41,960 a tremendous amount of time discussing this case with other family members. For us, 176 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:46,399 incident number four was always the one that stuck out that we felt didn't 177 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,600 fit as well as the others. It's not near water, and the way 178 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:56,240 that the bodies were treated it always felt very different to us. We'll have 179 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,000 to see where things go. Hopefully in the coming months we're going to see 180 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,200 more developments in this case and from talking to our friends and law enforcement who 181 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,000 were working in this case very actively, were very hopeful that we'll see further 182 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:13,240 developments in the Colonial Parkway murders incident number four at least for quite some time. 183 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,840 And I'm perfectly content to be wrong here, but Phelpslower was the case 184 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:22,320 that always felt like it didn't quite fit. Let me stop there, because 185 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,320 there's so much more to talk about. There is a lot that we want 186 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:30,919 to unpack. So let's move ahead to January eighth, which if anybody here 187 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,320 was following local news at that time, I'm sure you were aware of what 188 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,559 happened. Then on January eighth of this year, the FBI and the Virginia 189 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:46,039 State Police announced the first significant case break, and I would say it's thirty 190 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,480 seven year history, correct, And they did name Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, 191 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,279 sixty three, of Lancaster County, Virginia, and said that he had 192 00:13:54,320 --> 00:14:00,759 been connected via DNA to the murders of Robin Edwards, David Noveling, and 193 00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:03,799 then a name that we had not heard before, Teresa Howell. And we 194 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,639 will get to Teresa in just a couple of minutes. So Teresa marked the 195 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:13,879 first time that a single homicide victim was definitively connected to the Colonial Parkway murder 196 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,120 series. Phil Joyce, what would you guys like to talk about with regard 197 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,639 to the January eighth presser? What was that day like for you? All? 198 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:26,399 Shocking? Shocking? Yes? Absolutely, yes, you know, it 199 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,559 was to me so real because when this happened to our family, when it 200 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,960 happened to Keith, it was just like, and I think I can speak 201 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,960 for most of my family, everything was normal as normal could be in our 202 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,159 family. And then just one day the phone rang and they said we found 203 00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:48,440 Keith's carr And then when we got this call on January to eighth, or 204 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,919 a couple of days before, and it was just We've always been hoping for 205 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:58,240 it, but I was just a shocked. Although I've always had a feeling 206 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:01,440 in my heart that when we do find out what happened that it's just going 207 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:05,320 to be it's going to be like that I won't be expecting it. So 208 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:09,559 it was a lot of emotion, a lot of emotion. It was also 209 00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:15,200 very frustrating because those of you that listened to the podcast, and I'll reiterate 210 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:20,600 this, I was really thrilled to find out that we had answers for the 211 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:28,480 Edwards Nobbling and Howell a new name to us families, because it's fairly easy, 212 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:31,080 I think, for all of us to put ourselves in the place of 213 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,519 any of the Colonial Parkway murders families or any family that's lost a loved one, 214 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:39,120 because we've been through it and this is what they call it, the 215 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,039 club that no one wants to be asked to join. But I was very 216 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:50,480 frustrated at the same time because full disclosure, Kristin and I knew this was 217 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,840 coming. We knew in October we had heard from media sources that there'd been 218 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,600 a significant development in the Colonial Parkway murders. Now I'm not going to out 219 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:03,120 those media people, but they reached out to us and said there's going to 220 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,200 be a significant announcement in the Colonial Parkway murders. So in October, Christin 221 00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:12,080 Dilliy and Bill Thomas knew Alan Wade Wilmer's name, we knew the names of 222 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,519 his brothers, We knew where he was from. We actually had a fair 223 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:21,639 amount of information that was then presented to the public on January eighth. But 224 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,720 I was very frustrated and still am that the FBI and the Virginia State Police 225 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,320 didn't answer questions from the reporters that were there in a very straightforward manner. 226 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:40,639 So it's frustrating and even maddening to know the facts of a case. And 227 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,840 although it's good news, no one's dancing a happy dance here. But when 228 00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:48,600 you've been looking for answers for over thirty years to find out who killed your 229 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:52,720 loved one, your signing, your daughter, your brother, your sister, 230 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,919 that's a significant moment. But at the same time, when you know the 231 00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:02,039 details of the case and you hear questions and I knew the answers to those 232 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,240 questions, and the Virginia State Police spokeswoman, and I'm not blaming her personally, 233 00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:12,039 she literally refused to answer the question, which was asked twice, When 234 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:18,920 did Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. First move on to your radar. I don't 235 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,440 think that's an unfair question. I really don't. And it was asked twice, 236 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,440 and they refuse to answer the question twice. And as the brother of 237 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,799 a murder victim, I think that's outrageous, and I still think it's outrageous 238 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:34,720 three months later, and I'm still mad about it. Is you can probably 239 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:40,720 tell? Is it time? For Bill to go on one of his ranswers. 240 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,480 I think that was one. I want to make sure. I have 241 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,799 a feeling there's going to be more thought. But what I'll see, we'll 242 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:52,920 see. The one thing that we did learn that was new information to both 243 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,039 of us and probably Joyce. I imagine this was new to you as well. 244 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:02,880 Correct the identification of Teresa's Howell, who disappeared from outside the Zodiac Club 245 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,160 in Hampton on July first, nineteen eighty nine. Teresa was identified after a 246 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,880 missing person's report was filed on her behalf only fourth, nineteen eighty nine. 247 00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:18,000 We had no knowledge of Teresa's case at the point we learned it right along 248 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:23,279 with everyone else. That was particularly interesting information. We have been in touch 249 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:26,880 with Teresa's family and we were eager to learn more about her and share more 250 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,000 about her with all of you. Joyce, is there anything you want to 251 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:37,359 say? I know your family was briefed two days before the press conference privately, 252 00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:42,240 so the Colin Haley families were briefed privately beforehand. Is there anything you 253 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:48,039 can or are willing to say about that private briefing? I was thinking of 254 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:52,039 the actual face to face when we went in. One thing I will say 255 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:57,799 is that they suggested fairly strongly that Alan Wade Wilma Alan Wade Wilmer was one 256 00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:03,319 of the first suspects our brother's case. We had heard my father talk about 257 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:06,799 it. We were all young back then, so I remember even hearing my 258 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,759 father talk about it. They didn't have a name, He didn't have a 259 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:14,039 name, but they were talking about the watermen. And then to find out 260 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,960 that they had this guy from the very beginning was pretty overwhelming, And in 261 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,920 the meantime, a lot of my parents have died they didn't get to find 262 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:29,200 out. So he's still not linked by DNA yet, but we're working on 263 00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:34,079 it. They so strongly suggested that he is connected, and I think one 264 00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:37,759 of the things that's troubling about the January eighth press conference, which is two 265 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:42,720 days after they met with the Colin Haley families. So after telling the families 266 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,720 we believe this man is responsible for the disappearance and likely homicide of Keith Collin 267 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:53,119 Cassandra Haley, they won't say it publicly, and it's three months later and 268 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,680 they still haven't said it. For those of you that follow the news locally. 269 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,319 After Blaine Pardo, who wrote the book on the Colonial Parkway borders a 270 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,759 special kind of evil. Myself and other local media people called them out on 271 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:15,039 it. They did quietly admit that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was suspect number one 272 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,839 in Keith Collin Cassandra Haley's murder. But why does it take the families and 273 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,359 media people calling out the FBI and the Virginia State Police to get them to 274 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,039 say something which is factually correct he was the leading suspect. Now they haven't 275 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:37,039 said definitively to Joyce and her family that they know for a fact that it's 276 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,480 him. He was questioned, he was interrogated on more than one occasion. 277 00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:45,400 He was given we believe it may have been two polygraph examinations, and he 278 00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:52,319 passed one and the other one was the neutral. Neither we can't tell if 279 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,400 he's telling the truth or not telling the truth result and ultimately they let him 280 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:02,839 go. And it's really frustrating to know this story. I heard this story 281 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,720 in nineteen eighty eight. At the time that it happened, his name was 282 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:11,599 never attached to it. But we were told by the FBI that they had 283 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,079 questioned this man, and they had given him a polygraph, and they let 284 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,799 him go. It's only a few months ago until we find out what his 285 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,839 name is, and the fact that he died in twenty seventeen. No one's 286 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,559 making this story up. My father told me this story in nineteen eighty eight 287 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,119 because he was in touch on probably a weekly basis back then with the FBI 288 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,759 agents who were in charge of the case. I think it's also a good 289 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,920 point to mention it is a as a direct result of the fact that he 290 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:48,160 was polygraphed and let go. Teresa Howell died a year later. Let's not 291 00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:52,119 gloss that over. They let him go and as a result, she died. 292 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,519 I think it's really important that the FBI get transparent about this. As 293 00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,640 a result of their negligence, someone died. When you get the sense that 294 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:08,640 they're not happy with me in particular, let's be frank here. As I 295 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:14,279 said in a television interview with one of the stations earlier today, this can't 296 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:21,119 be about reputation management. We understand it's been thirty seven years since the start 297 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,279 of the Colonial Parkery murders. We get the fact that we didn't get here 298 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,599 without problems and mistakes. But mistakes happen. The focus has to remain on 299 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:37,400 solving these cases, not about preserving the reputation of the FBI and the Virginia 300 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,240 State Police. I think, as a citizen, I live in Connecticut, 301 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:45,440 I don't live here in Virginia. I think it's outrageous. You can't be 302 00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:52,400 more concerned with how your agency looks than you can about being honest with people. 303 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:57,960 And I'm talking about the citizens of Virginia, not necessarily just the family 304 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,960 who are talking to you this evening. Solving a case needs to be the 305 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:15,440 principal focus of an investigation, not covering up your mistakes. Now, this 306 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,960 is where the teacher in me is going to say, please refer to your 307 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,680 handouts. It's the number of you pick up that postcard. Bill, let 308 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,680 me have that postcard please, if you would. We have a whole bunch 309 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,319 of tas. We have a ton of them on that table over there. 310 00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:32,079 This was created by Bill's partner, Pamela Arnwass. I want to give Pamela 311 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,519 mad props for doing this. This is amazing. And on the back we 312 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,960 have all of the information that you see right here on the screen about Alan 313 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:44,440 Wade Wilmer Senior. We also, on the other side have lots of information 314 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,319 about the truck that he was driving, the boat that he regularly used for 315 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:55,000 his work as a waterman, and then we have a series of photographs of 316 00:23:55,079 --> 00:24:02,640 Wilmer throughout the years. We encourage you if you have any information whatsoever about 317 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,680 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, the people that he worked with, the places he 318 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:11,599 hung out, or any other information, please take that to the FBI. 319 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,599 Let me give you an example. I got to Joyce and her husband Steve's 320 00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:19,960 house in Glosster on Saturday night and they had some friends over and they introduced 321 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,480 me to a guy, David. His name is and he is a tugboat 322 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,680 captain. Really super nice guy. I'd never met him before, but he 323 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,039 knew why I was here working with Joyce and Kristen on the podcast. He 324 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,480 stuck out his hand and he said hello, and if we get to talking, 325 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000 he knew Alan Wade Wilmer. This guy who, by the way, 326 00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:42,240 totally looks like the tugboat captain that he is, big, burly guy with 327 00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:47,000 a beard. He started out as a waterman and he used to dock his 328 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,640 boat at the same marina that Wilmer docked his boat, and he actually had 329 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,039 some insight. We're not investigators and we're not experts. Our goal then is 330 00:24:57,079 --> 00:25:03,319 to get David and anyone and also has any information about Alan Wade Wilmer. 331 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,039 Senior. Law enforcement has a significant challenge. Now they're needing to rebuild this 332 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:12,200 guy's life and build out a timeline thirty something years later and he's been dead 333 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,960 since twenty seventeen. This is going to be a significant challenge. But if 334 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,759 people like David remember, even though it might be only one or two things, 335 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:26,759 it might place Wilmer at a particular place and time. In other words, 336 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,880 he used to dock at this marina. This was back in and this 337 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,359 guy remembered a lot. That's the kind of guy that we want to not 338 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:38,400 just have him tell his old friends or someone that he just met for the 339 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:45,039 first time, but ultimately connect with Virginia State Police or FBI and give them 340 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:49,559 that information. It could be very helpful to moving this investigation forward. You're 341 00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:53,480 listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our 342 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:06,039 sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. No tip is too small. 343 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,480 Anything that you may know, you don't know what significant. The FBI may 344 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,720 find something very significant that you think is maybe just a little detail. So 345 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,720 please, no matter what you know, no matter how small it is, 346 00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:22,480 please send that information into the FBI. The email and tip lines are right 347 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:26,880 up there. They're also on this informational postcard. We printed up four thousand 348 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,880 postcards for tonight's meeting. We really want you to take a stack of these 349 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,759 postcards because someone you know probably gonna be an old timer like my age, 350 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:41,480 or maybe even older, if there is such a thing, They may know 351 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:47,599 something and we really need the public's help here. Feel free to take a 352 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,039 bunch of postcards. So we had alluded to the fact already, the one 353 00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:56,279 of the things that was unset at the presser is the fact that Wilmer was 354 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,160 suspect number one in the disappearance of Keith call and Casey Andrew Haley. What 355 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:03,160 we have not mentioned yet but would like to get into is the fact that 356 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,440 he did have a known history of harassing couples on the Colonial Parkway. We 357 00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:12,920 have had people reach out to us with chips again and again alluding to this 358 00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:18,599 very startling history of harassment. Do you want to go into that a little 359 00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:21,480 bit? And then, yeah, First of all, we've had some fantastic 360 00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:25,160 conversations with a number of people, and then of course there's all my new 361 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,640 friends from Lancaster County, Virginia, which is new to me. We've learned 362 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,720 a lot in the last three months. One of the things we've learned, 363 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,240 though, is very disturbing. A number of people have come forward, and 364 00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:40,000 of course we are urging these people to talk to law enforcement, because talking 365 00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:44,119 to Kristen and Bill or Joyce is great, but ultimately you need to put 366 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,839 this information in the hands of the investigators. A number of people have come 367 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,880 forward and said they were harassed by a guy who matches Wilmer's description. Remember, 368 00:27:53,920 --> 00:28:00,240 this guy's five foot five five inches tall. He is definitely short than 369 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,880 the average. He's a big guy. He's pretty buff actually, but he's 370 00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:08,599 very distinctive. And we have very good photographs thanks to the Virginia State Police 371 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,519 and the FBI with age progression, that show what he looked like over the 372 00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:17,519 course of his life. What some of these people are telling us is particularly 373 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,880 Two news stories came forward to me. People that were parking down near the 374 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:30,039 Yorktown the Victory Monument Victory Monument. They were harassed by a guy who came 375 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,880 up very aggressively. He behaved like a cop, but he was dressed like 376 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,240 a mechanic, like in a jumpsuit. Banged on the window, demanded that 377 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:44,440 they roll the window down, demanded driver's licenses. Interestingly, not registrations, 378 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,519 which are those of us that have been pulled over like me. No, 379 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,480 they asked for your license and your registration. For some reason, he would 380 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:55,240 only ask for driver's licenses. But remember now we're talking about young people. 381 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,279 That's when I was getting stopped by the cops too. He demanded driver's licenses, 382 00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:02,559 and he actually he had managed to get the driver's licenses in most of 383 00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:04,920 these examples. And then he goes back to his truck and guess what, 384 00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:10,799 he's driving, the same truck that he is in this picture, this very 385 00:29:10,839 --> 00:29:15,640 distinctive blue green truck, which is how he originally got onto FBI's radar. 386 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:19,680 He terrified these couples. Now these couples live to tell the tale because here 387 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:25,039 they are talking to us and law enforcement all these years later. What's very 388 00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:29,720 disturbing to me is, I believe there's a very distinct pattern here. I've 389 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,759 heard about it from the investigators over the years, that this guy was out 390 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,599 there doing this any number of times it doesn't mean it always resulted in a 391 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:44,839 double homicide. What's disturbing is if he has this known history of harassing couples 392 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:48,200 on the Colonial Parkway, it's a shame they were never able to put that 393 00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:52,680 together. That was the same guy who was ultimately responsible for the murders. 394 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,200 What do we still want to know about Wilmer? A lot? So much. 395 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,279 We really want to know how did he these victims? What sort of 396 00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:07,640 emotional need was he fulfilling with his victim choices? How did he ultimately approach 397 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,319 his victims? Was it on foot? Was it in the distinctive truck? 398 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:15,079 Was it on his boat? Was he sailing up to people for example, 399 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:21,359 or docking outside of Ragged Island and waiting ann We want to know what locations 400 00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:23,599 Wilmer was frequenting when he was visiting this area. And again, that is 401 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,200 something that those of you who knew him can help us with. For those 402 00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:32,920 who did know him, did he exhibit behavior that alarmed his friends and family? 403 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:37,480 Question that probably we will never get an answer to from VSPRFBI. We 404 00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:41,119 can dream why was Wilmar allowed to go free even after passing that polygraph? 405 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,599 If he was a prime suspect in the disappearance of Keith Collin Cassandra Haling. 406 00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,599 I think there's a typo in that question. I think that originally read why 407 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,839 the hell was Wilmar allowed to go free? We would really like to know. 408 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,000 I could be wrong. I'm sorry, you're right, although the language 409 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:03,319 might have been stronger than that originally. That's Joyce. Actually, Joyce has 410 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:12,480 a very edgy side, always the quiet ones. It totally is. Seriously, 411 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:17,000 we are very concerned about whether or not there might be cases out of 412 00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,359 state that he might be connected to. Several of our listeners have brought to 413 00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:23,880 our attention the case of Imber Lungren in North Carolina and the suspect sketches and 414 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,759 the truck that the suspect in that case was driving looks very similar to Alan 415 00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:32,759 Wade Wilmer Senior. Was he moving out of state to do this? And 416 00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:37,920 what other local cold cases might he be potentially connected to? And we want 417 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,119 to talk about that in just one second, Joyce, anything you want to 418 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,680 add questions that you have no bill, how about you? I think that 419 00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:49,200 last question, I think there are a number of other cold cases. I 420 00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:56,279 don't think that Alan Wade Wilmer who was officially a serial killer by FBI definition. 421 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,160 He killed three people that we know of in two separate incidents, and 422 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:07,079 that makes him officially a serial killer. I think he's responsible for a number 423 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:12,400 of other unsolved rapes and murders if law enforcement does its job, and I 424 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:19,480 underline if I think that he will be linked to a number of other unsolved 425 00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:24,599 cases. The two that I think the law enforcement officials in this area really 426 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,319 need to be closely looked at, and we have said this before on the 427 00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:31,279 podcast a number of times. I think they really need to be looking at 428 00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:36,480 the case of Brian Pettinger, aged twenty five, and Laurie and Powell, 429 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:42,319 age eighteen. The reason that I say this is because both of those murders 430 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,359 were bookended around the Edwards noveling murders in nineteen eighty seven, which we know 431 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,240 he's good for, and the Call Haley disappearance in nineteen eighty eight, which 432 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:58,720 he circumstantially is connected to. The particulars of Brian and Laurie's cases are something 433 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,319 that we have outlined before on the podcast, and so we will put links 434 00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:07,200 to those episodes on our show notes for our episode when this goes live and 435 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,880 We will also release those as bonus episodes so you can catch up. But 436 00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:16,200 I think that if you were looking at cold case murders from the mid eighties, 437 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,200 the first place that you need to start is Brian Pettinger and Lauri and 438 00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:23,640 Pella. And we would ask anyone who knew Brian or Laurie, if you 439 00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:28,519 have information that you think may be helpful, please reach out to the FBI 440 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,960 or the VSP or any other law enforcement agency that you think may be helpful. 441 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:38,160 You could spend an entire podcast which we have talking about the possible connection 442 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:45,480 of Liberty Security, this oddball security company that seems to be connected to a 443 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:52,319 number of unsolved murders. Brian Pettinger and Laurie and Powell both worked for Liberty 444 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:58,279 Securities. It's still a real head scratcher. Could there be a connection to 445 00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:01,799 Liberty Security? And that does take us directly into the next thing. There 446 00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:06,319 are people who have asked us, Okay, so is this all Wilmer or 447 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,960 are there other potential suspects in this case? And we do think that the 448 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,079 late Ron Little of New Zealand is still a suspect who deserves some attention, 449 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:21,960 largely because, as Bill was just saying of his connection to Liberty Security also 450 00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:27,039 called advanced security. He has known connections to Brian Pettinger, Lauren Powell, 451 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,599 Robin Edwards, Keith and Sandy so I think it is very important that law 452 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:37,199 enforcement continues to look at that connection. In addition to his criminal history here, 453 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,199 he also has a significant criminal record in New Zealand. I know you're 454 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,360 doing some work with the folks at New Zealand on that, correct, Yeah, 455 00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:49,400 the television producers from New Zealand are coming to meet with me this Saturday 456 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,440 and Sunday to talk to me because they were interested in exploring Ron Little's connection 457 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:59,440 to the Colonial Parkway murders, Powell, Pettinger and then a series of unsolved 458 00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:02,280 murders in New Zealand. And by the way, I know it was the 459 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,679 eighties, but tell me you like that photograph that is they're just it just 460 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,119 says I'm creepy, aren't I? And it's not just the hair, it's 461 00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:19,119 the glasses. He's got those, the Jeffrey Dahmer glass. There's also a 462 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,320 video clip of Andy Fox from w A. B Y interviewing him and he's 463 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:30,039 got this cropped pink pink Michael like Michael Jackson style leather jacket, and you're 464 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:32,920 like, dude, I know it was the eighties. I was there, 465 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:42,599 but come on, do you and ho hold I wasn't the eighties? Sure, 466 00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:45,519 go ahead and tell us Kristen dilly oh, I would say single digits. 467 00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,760 Maybe at least you were born. I was worried you were going to 468 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,840 say I wasn't even born then, e one eighties baby right here, Joeyce. 469 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,719 How soon into the investigation was your family aware that Ron Little was that 470 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,639 his name had come up, or that liberty security had become an issue of 471 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,559 concern. It's been so long ago, I don't remember any exact times, 472 00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:12,280 but I know it was fairly soon. His name has been linked ever since 473 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,960 I can remember. Really, Hilman others, I think he's worth a look, 474 00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:21,440 And I would argue too, given what has recently come out about Wilmer 475 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,039 in the polygraph, I would say that anyone who has previously been cleared by 476 00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:28,599 a polygraph, let's give them a second look as well, just in case. 477 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,280 One of the questions that we've been asking ourselves recently, and I'm going 478 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,679 to let Bill do most of the speaking on this, I think is should 479 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,519 we even still be using the term Colonial Parkway murders, because one thing that 480 00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:45,599 we have noticed is that law enforcement is making a notable effort to divorce the 481 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,559 Edward Nobbling cases from the rest of the Colonial Parkway Murders series. They are 482 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,199 now referring to them as the Isle of Wight murders, and we have never 483 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,239 heard them called that. I've been involved in this case for thirty seven years. 484 00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:04,119 No one ever called Awards noveling the Isle of White Murders. This is 485 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,039 like they just made this up. So that has led us to wonder what 486 00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:14,320 is it that they are trying to accomplish by divorcing that case from the rest 487 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,880 of it. And so we have had to ask ourselves, do we need 488 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,280 to still be using the term Colonial Parkway murders or should we be calling it 489 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,559 something else? Should we be dividing it up into specific individual cases. Should 490 00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:27,800 we be going with Isle of White Murders? Bill? What are your thoughts 491 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,519 on do we use this name? Do we continue to use this name, 492 00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:32,480 which is a media construct, by the way, not a law enforcement construct. 493 00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:37,559 Yeah, My recollection having lived this is that they obviously weren't called the 494 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:45,079 Colonial Parkway Murders from the beginning, local television and newspapers and news radio started 495 00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,519 referring to this case as the Colonial Parkway murders. It is confusing, and 496 00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:53,079 I've said on Mind Over Murder that sometimes I think that the name the Colonial 497 00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:57,920 Parkway Murders maybe the biggest rabbit hole of all, because we talk about all 498 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,719 the different complicated rabbit holes you can go down. In this case, I 499 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,440 think it would be very confusing to start referring to this case by some other 500 00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:09,840 name. Our friend Keith has said he wonders if the whole thing should be 501 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:15,000 called the rout seventeen murders. I think on some level that ship has sailed. 502 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,960 I do agree that the name is a little confusing, because even the 503 00:38:19,079 --> 00:38:24,440 four double homicides, only two happened on the Colonial Parkway. Two clearly did 504 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,480 not happen on the Colonial Parkway, one at Ragged Island and one up on 505 00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:32,960 Interstate sixty four, probably starting at the rest area. I know it's a 506 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,480 little bit of a confusing name, but it seems odd at this point, 507 00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:43,519 thirty seven years later, to erase the whiteboard and start over again. I 508 00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:49,039 do push back on the idea that at the January eighth Press conference, all 509 00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:52,599 of a sudden, we're calling the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling the 510 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:55,400 Isle of White murders. Like it or not, it's part of this series. 511 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,840 And by the way, now it appears more and more every day with 512 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:05,639 Wilmer's identification that this is a series of murders and Wilmer is responsible for at 513 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,159 least some of them. He could be responsible for all of them. I 514 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:13,519 just think it is more to our advantage as families have to keep the name 515 00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:17,559 Colonial Parkway because that's what everybody knows it as how many of you in this 516 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,960 room, we're already familiar with the Colonial Parkway murders case long before you heard 517 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:28,079 our podcast. Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, So we would like to put 518 00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:31,159 forth some action steps that we'd like to see law enforcement take. We're not 519 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,400 pushy, and they have to do this, and we know they love this 520 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,639 when we start telling them what to do. Yes, they don't like the 521 00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:43,199 fact that they think we are telling them how to do their job. We're 522 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,760 not, As we have said a number of times, we are not investigators. 523 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:51,760 I am an overworked, underpaid educator. Can't we have them focus their 524 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,440 ire on you for a while? Sure, absolutely, we can make that 525 00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:59,239 happen. Okay, I think that. Okay, that is exactly what I 526 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,480 mean. Just in case when you're telling friends about this and they should why 527 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,159 they should come. On May thirteenth, make a point of saying Kristin Dilly 528 00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:10,320 made a number of really good points about what she would like to see that 529 00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:15,519 law enforcement do next. Absolutely, you should get me in as much trouble 530 00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:19,000 as possible because you why not taken the brunt of it from the FBI. 531 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,800 Either that or we can blame Joyce. Oh, nobody would believe that she's 532 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,079 too nice. She's too nice. We love Joyce. So we have four 533 00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:30,239 action steps that we'd like to see law enforcement take now, and again we 534 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,800 are not telling them how to do their job, but we are recommending strongly 535 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,920 that these are things we think you ought to do. I think we're going 536 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,760 to change the slide from May thirteenth. This is going to say Kristin Dilly's 537 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:45,679 recommended action steps, go ahead, tell us I love working with this guy. 538 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,880 I do. We do think that they should take a second look at 539 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,400 those area cold cases from the eighties, in particular Lori and Pellambryan Pettinger. 540 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,480 As we've said there's also Donna Cannady and in Chesapeake and blenn Ann Ashburn down 541 00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,559 on the North Carolina line over Kuratak, any number of different cases that we 542 00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:05,199 want them to take a look at. So we are recommending, not ordering, 543 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,360 that they take a second look at some area cold cases. We would 544 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:13,079 ask that they test or retest all of the remaining evidence in this case with 545 00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:17,400 the best DNA labs, especially the ones that specialize in small samples and integrated 546 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,119 DNA, because the DNA in this case is not in the best shape unfortunately. 547 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,760 The big sticking point for us, and I'll let you talk about that 548 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,559 or fulminate about that in a second bill is number three, submit Alan Wade 549 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:39,599 Wilmer Senior's DNA into the CODIS system. Thank here he needs to be ruled 550 00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:44,480 in or ruled out in other local cases, and the only way to do 551 00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:47,800 that is to get him uploaded to CODIS. And I know you can explain 552 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,880 in just a couple of minutes why he's not in COTIS, but I like 553 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,079 that round of applus so let me floating on that for one. Actually go 554 00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,360 ahead and explain it, okay, according to the rules, and we're told 555 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:07,760 it's actually not a law, but a policy. The Commonwealth of Virginia's policy 556 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:13,280 is that if you've never been convicted of a felony, and Wilmer had not 557 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,360 ever been convicted of a felony, your DNA cannot be loaded into COTIS. 558 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,519 Now. I'm just the brother of a murder victim here, but I find 559 00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:28,239 it baffling that a man who is being identified by the FBI as a confirmed 560 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:35,440 serial killer, he's been dead since twenty seventeen. I can't believe we can't 561 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:42,119 find a way put Alan Wade Wilmer Senior's DNA into the CODAS system. We 562 00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:45,199 have a number of people that are pulling for us, shall we say, 563 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,119 Some of them are retired law enforcement. Many of them have worked this case 564 00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:52,199 in the past. More than one of them has said to me, Bill, 565 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,800 they don't want to put Alan Wade Wilmer Senior's DNA into the CODAS system 566 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,199 because it will light up like an f and Christmas tree, because he is 567 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:06,159 likely going to be linked to so many other unsolved murders, and he could 568 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,760 even be linked to some allegedly solved murders. There could be people who are 569 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:19,079 currently incarcerated for cases that they were convicted on and Wilmer could be actually the 570 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:25,000 responsible killer or rapist. So I'm having a real hard time finding an excuse, 571 00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:29,480 which is what this really is, as to why we can't find a 572 00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:35,119 way to put Wilmer's DNA into CODIS. I don't think violating a dead man's 573 00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:39,280 rights is really a problem, And I am the last person on the planet 574 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,760 that would ever want to see an innocent person go to jail. Alan Wade 575 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,119 Wilmer, Senior is not that guy, and I call on the FBI and 576 00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:52,760 the Commonwealth of Virginia to work together to find a way to put Wilmer's DNA 577 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:59,280 into CODIS so that we can find out exactly how many cases he should be 578 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:07,920 properly linked to. I agreed, because, as you said, Bill, 579 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,840 the question really does come down to this, why do the civil rights of 580 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,360 a serial killer trump the rights of the family members of a murder victim to 581 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,320 find answers. The other thing that we would like them to do is to 582 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,880 look for single and double homicide cold cases in surrounding states, not just Virginia, 583 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,639 North Carolina and Maryland, for example, places that are easily accessible by 584 00:44:27,679 --> 00:44:31,440 boat. So the law enforcement agencies that are no doubt listening to this podcast. 585 00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:36,280 These are just recommendations. We are not asking you to do your job, 586 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,440 but we are actually Oh and I know we've said this on the podcast, 587 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,079 and this episode will air next Monday, a week from tonight, so 588 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:49,239 it's April fifteenth. It'll actually go out worldwide. We've forgotten our manners. 589 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,159 I think we want to thank the FBI and Virginia State Police analysts who listen 590 00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:58,039 to our podcast every week and wish them all the best and thank them for 591 00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:01,280 taking the time to listen to the podcast. Keep working it and keep smiling. 592 00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:06,239 We have lots of faith in you. You said you work and antagonize 593 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,519 the FBI. I didn't have an eye. This is the dialed down version. 594 00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:16,760 Before we move to our question and answer session, we do want to 595 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,800 talk about why we keep telling the FBI to do their jobs, and that's 596 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,639 not really what this is. Honestly, we're joking a lot about this. 597 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:30,559 The reason that we do this the family members of the victims and me, 598 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:31,840 who is a I hope you guys think I'm a friend. You think I'm 599 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,480 a friend? Right? Good friend? Oh? Good, okay, someone 600 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,840 who is a friend to these families. The reason why we do. Advocacy 601 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:45,920 is because while we truly appreciate law enforcement for the great strides that they make 602 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,880 in this case and I'm not joking, I'm not tweaking it that I really 603 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,280 truly do mean we are appreciative of that because without their efforts St. Edwards 604 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,320 and the novelin and how families wouldn't have answers. There are still families without 605 00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,760 answers, and there are potentially more families out there who have been victimized by 606 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,519 Wilmer and other suspects who may come up in this case, and so all 607 00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:09,320 of those families deserve answers as well. Advocacy the kind that we're doing allows 608 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,199 families to take action, and it allows them to take action in a situation 609 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,440 that I know you both can speak to, this can leave them feeling powerless, 610 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:23,639 helpless, and confused. Advocacy allows us to do something, and so 611 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,400 that is why we are up here tweaking the FBI and the VSP. It 612 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,519 allows us to do something. I just want to speak to that well. 613 00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:37,079 I think it's very important because Joyce would won't admit this, but the Call 614 00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:39,079 family in particular, and there's a number of members of the Call family in 615 00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:45,280 this room tonight have been unbelievable advocates for well over thirty years. That f 616 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:52,599 Fact of Life headline refers to an organization that they established to help the families 617 00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:58,119 in the Colonial Parkway murders and other unsolved murders here in Virginia years ago. 618 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:06,400 They lobbied for new life legislation. They fought for increased budgets, worked tirelessly 619 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:12,320 to see this case in the early going get the kind of coverage and publicity 620 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,039 that it needed because the calls and the other families knew that you needed people 621 00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:22,239 to be talking about your case and cold cases. As the months go by 622 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,119 and new things happen every single day, some good, some bad, but 623 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:32,559 people start to forget. I have to acknowledge their incredible work. Yeah, 624 00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:43,760 let's have am out of a plus for the call family. Do you want 625 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,079 to speak to them or did we embarrass you too much? Embarrass me? 626 00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:51,760 But I will say that my dad and my aunts and a lot of people 627 00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:57,000 when this happened back in the eighties, like the Noblings and a lot of 628 00:47:57,039 --> 00:48:00,039 them had got together. Because I was very young then and my brothers were 629 00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:04,480 young, they didn't know what else to do. There was nothing to do. 630 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,239 So they kept it going that way, and they would have meetings every 631 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,400 week and they would have speakers, and they would write letters, and there 632 00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:15,119 wasn't cell phones or anything back then. They spent a lot of time doing 633 00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:17,920 all that and it was hard on my family and all the other family members. 634 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,360 And I remember watching it when my father died. He died very young. 635 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,719 He died in nineteen ninety six. Some years went by, nobody was 636 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,880 doing anything. I can just remember sometime laying in the bed at night saying, 637 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,840 I don't know what to do. What am I going to do? 638 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,639 Because I didn't I was never brought up in law enforcement. We were just 639 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,360 thrown into this. It just happened. I had no experience in this. 640 00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:45,719 And that's when I was like Facebook was just starting to come out, and 641 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,639 I'm like, I can start putting it on there. That's when we started 642 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,239 drumming up a lot of support again, and that's how I met Bill. 643 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,320 It's just what do you do. I don't know what to do. Just 644 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,000 reach out. The Cole family does run whatever happened, Richard Keith Collin, 645 00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:04,880 Cassandra Haley on Facebook, We do encourage you to join that if you have 646 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,199 not done so already. They also run the Colonial Parkway Victims Gone but Not 647 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:13,559 Forgotten page, and then Phil and I of course run Colonial Parkway Murders and 648 00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:16,559 the Mind of a Murder podcast pages. So a lot of times, as 649 00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:22,920 Joyce was just saying, advocacy through social media is the best alternative that we 650 00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:25,840 have because we can't go out there and beat the bushes and search and do 651 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,480 various other things. This is what we can do, this is what we 652 00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:32,280 have, So this is why we advocate. Let me add something here. 653 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,960 I believe actually that the Call family who started the whatever Happened page, I 654 00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:44,519 actually believe you may be, to my knowledge, you are the first family 655 00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:52,119 group to use social media to solve an unsolved murder. You'll notice even the 656 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:57,079 page doesn't even mention the word murder. My sense of it was that Facebook 657 00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:04,320 was even a little uncomfortable they use social media before anybody else. I actually 658 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,679 think they may be the first families in the country to do this, and 659 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:12,280 that is incredibly important and innovative and leads us to where we are today, 660 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:21,400 which is getting closer to answers. Now Joyce is thoroughly embarrassed. Yeah, 661 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:23,880 sorry about that, Joyce. So We do have one other piece of advocacy 662 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,800 work that we do, and that is going to crime con. Crime Con 663 00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:35,320 is incredibly, incredibly influential in making sure that the families of murder victims have 664 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,880 the voice that they so desperately need. And we want to thank Kevin Balf, 665 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,920 Kelly Maclear, and the folks at crime Con for helping us keep this 666 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:49,039 case in the spotlight because we've made appearances with Joyce in twenty eighteen, twenty 667 00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:52,159 nineteen, twenty twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, and we will 668 00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:55,679 be at crime Con Nashville in just a couple of short weeks for our what 669 00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,400 is it fifth or sixth crime constertalstract A lot of them, there's been a 670 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:05,639 lot of them. But another way that we can advocate is going to crime 671 00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:09,199 Con and making sure that our story is known and that the families have a 672 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,960 voice. So we do ask if anybody is going to crime Con in Nationville, 673 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,679 please do join us. We are once to get on creators wherever you 674 00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:22,239 can pick up all of that lovely, lovely postcard and signogen sticker action. 675 00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:25,559 All right, I think we're getting down to the Q and A portion, 676 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,760 but we do want to mention. One thing that always seems to come up, 677 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:36,239 and that is this concept of closure. People use the term closure and 678 00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:37,679 it is You've said it before, Bill, and I agree with you. 679 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,639 It is kindly meant. It truly is. But I think it's important for 680 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,719 everyone to understand that there is no such thing as closure for families who have 681 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,440 lost someone to violent crime. There can be answers, and a lot of 682 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,480 times those answers are incomplete or unsatisfactory. Knowing who committed a crime does not 683 00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:59,480 mean that you understand why it happened to that loved one. And sometimes, 684 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,679 if you're lucky, there is justice, but even that I'm sure is cold 685 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,800 comfort. So the Edwards, the Nobling, and the Howe families, and 686 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,679 hopefully very soon the Calls and the Haleys will have answers, but they do 687 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,400 not have closure. And because Wilmer has died, there is no way to 688 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,440 see justice done in this case. We do ask that you reframe the word 689 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,440 closure, because it really is not possible for someone who has lost a loved 690 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:28,760 one to have closure, And just as a way to close this portion, 691 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:35,119 I want to keep in mind where these victims should be today as of twenty 692 00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:38,280 twenty four. Had they lived, Robin Edwards would be fifty one years old. 693 00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:43,880 Anna Maria Phelps would be fifty three, Sander Haley would be fifty four, 694 00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:47,880 Laurie and Powell would be fifty four, Keith Call would be fifty six, 695 00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:52,960 Daniel Lower would be fifty six, David Nobling would be fifty seven, 696 00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:59,639 Becky Dalski would be fifty nine, Brian Pettinger would be sixty one, Terry 697 00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:04,239 Hall sixty four, and Kathy Thomas would be sixty five years old. These 698 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,559 victims deserve to live, and now they deserve the only kind of justice that 699 00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:08,840 we can get for them, and that is to know the name of their 700 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:13,559 killer. So we implore the FBI and the VSP please do everything that you 701 00:53:13,639 --> 00:53:17,639 can to find answers for these families. So maybe some of the folks that 702 00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:21,719 are here tonight, if they have social media, they can do that and 703 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,480 maybe there might could lead to smart tips. We would love that. We 704 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,360 would love that, Thank you very much. Yeah, absolutely, please do 705 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,599 feel free to take those, share those, post them everywhere. Our goal 706 00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:36,960 is to get as much information out about the case and about Wilmer. I 707 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,320 think we're going to wrap it up that is going to do it for this 708 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:43,440 episode of Mind Over Murder live at the Yorktown Library. Thank you so much 709 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:57,440 for joining us. We'll see you next time. Please take postcards, That's 710 00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:02,199 why we printed them, and thank you. Thank you all, and thank 711 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:07,079 you to Beth and the library staff. They did an incredible job. Thank 712 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:14,840 you very much. Gods so much. Join us next time on mind over 713 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:21,000 Murder as we continue our live mindover Murder podcast event from Yorktown, Virginia. 714 00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:28,199 We'll be taking questions from the audience in a no holds barred discussion of questions 715 00:54:28,199 --> 00:54:31,760 and concerns regarding the Colonial Parkway murders. We look forward to seeing you next 716 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:45,920 time on mind over Murder. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero 717 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,920 and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilly. 718 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:58,360 Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. 719 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,880 Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can 720 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,079 follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our 721 00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:12,559 page on the Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow 722 00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:16,840 Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five. Six Thank you for listening to 723 00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:19,480 Mind Over Murder.