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Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind with
your hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian bag And

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we're back with another episode of Sword
and Scale Rewind. This is episode one

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hundred and sixty eight. My name
is Matt Fondelier, one of the writers

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and producers for the Sword and Scale
Universe, but above all else, just

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a huge fan of the show.
That's why I'm here to talk to you

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guys about my love of Sword and
Scale. But I'm not doing it a

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love own. That's right. I'm
not reacting to my own sentences. There's

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someone else in the room with me. Hello, Match, it's nice to

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see you. Thanks for having me
to your podcast. Real great to have

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you back here in the booth after
so many games out. It's ten past

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seven. That's right, the two
of us are breaking down every episode of

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the craziest true crimes show ever produced. I don't know how it happened.

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I was just I was just walking
around normal one day and then you called

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me up, and now everything's scary. Everything is scary now, that's right,

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that is very true. I'm sorry
you brought so much fear into your

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life. You didn't pitch it like
that, would you like to come in

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and I'll not be able to open
your door with out crying. I got

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a deal for you. Come into
the studio once a week and you'll never

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sleep again. What do you think
are having a hard time getting to sleep,

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Well, let's make it even tougher. Yeah, now, but you

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will look at your ring doorbell constantly, that's what I find. Yeah,

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well, we try to Uh,
I'm not gonna say we try to make

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people feel better about the murders,
but we try to react to it and

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just be real about it. You
know what, I don't know. I

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think what a lot of times with
these shows, these episodes, I think,

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yeah, yeah, I am right
about what I think. And yeah,

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it are the people. They are
the people that you do think it

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is. The worst monsters are real. The worst monsters are real. But

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the worst monsters aren't really hidden behind
a veil of innocence. Yeah, most

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of them are out there. But
on this one things get a little bit

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twisted. The angel turns into the
devil. Yeah, yeah, I didn't

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like this one at all. Well, you're not alone. A lot of

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fans didn't like this one. Age. It's it's when he says there's two

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different types of cops. Right off, the topic goes there's the police officer

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of the sea HP that we've all
dealt with, and then there's the detective.

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Yeah, it's true. I wonder
if detectives should be something completely different

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than in the police m Like,
if it should be a completely separate unit.

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I see, like not yeah,
well yeah, okay, you know

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it's not no longer Long Beach police, right it's Long Beach or I don't

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know, it's yeah, it's something
different that way, because they after you

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hear it, you kind of go, well, maybe the police need to

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be police, but not by police, yeah, because right now they're police

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by themselves. Basically. I see
what you're saying, because it does seem

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like the trajectory of becoming a detective
means that you start out with the like

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basic training of a police officer.
You might be like a you know,

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have a beat where you just kind
of work the streets for a little bit

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and you have to kind of prove
yourself, and then as you make your

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way up the ranks, then you
can be trans for to become like a

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detective or something like that. And
I think what you're saying is maybe the

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path to becoming a detective should be
something totally separate from becoming a police officer.

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Yeah, yeah, I could kind
of see that the detective being a

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detective, especially after listening to like
an episode like this, Being a detective

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is like being a poker player.
I hadn't really thought about before, But

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you are encouraged to bluff and to
use to lie certain types of mental strategy

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to like overcome the opponent that you're
playing against, as opposed to like a

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police officer, whose job should be
more like to like hold somebody's hand through

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a scary s Yeah, yeah,
I can see that. But you know,

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they guess, I guess the whole
thing is all comes down to being

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trained in the law. I guess
maybe you could be on the path to

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becoming a lawyer and then maybe become
a detective because you're learning about the ins

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and outs of the laws and what
are like case precedents. Well, I

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don't know, it's interesting, you
know, the college courses to become a

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policeman, maybe they're different to be
a detective. You know, maybe,

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But I also think it's something we
might have to change the laws a little

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bit, like you shouldn't, you
know, it's it's it's sad that in

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this this case, you go,
well, why were they so why were

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they so determined to get this kid? Yeah? Like that's what didn't make

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sense to me. That's where the
rub was to me. And then I'm

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like, well, what if it's
somebody that's annoyed with me? So at

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some point you know what I mean, and they just keep harping on it

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until because I'm just like, well, why aren't you looking at other places?

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Yeah? Well, what was really
maddening. And of course we're going

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to get into all the different details
of this episode, but there was another

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kid who seemed like a way more
suspicious suspect or whatever, and they're like,

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now, we're not going to talk
to him because he's a ward of

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the state and that means he has
a lawyer, and so therefore we are

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not even going to try. Like
that was pretty despicable to me. I

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couldn't tell if they're just being douches
or they were lazy, or they're just

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incompetent. I imagine it's the incompetency. I what struck me just now when

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you said it is like again going
back to police officer versus detective police officers

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have like, let's say, a
quota of speeding tickets that they have to

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give out and so people, which
is weird. It's really weird. But

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if you live in Los Angeles,
you kind of know the end of the

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month, you've got to be extra
careful because all those officers are all trying

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to make their quotas. And so
just now, when you were like,

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why would they like why are they
just trying to break this kid? In

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my mind, I was like,
and I can't possibly be true, but

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I'm like, maybe they have quotas, like they have to arrest a certain

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amount of people. Like it seems
ridiculous, but you know, it just

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didn't. It's before the guy,
you know, the guy that got killed.

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It was weird that they really really
wanted a suspect for that. I'm

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like, really, the guy that
just got a prison, you really absolutely

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need a suspect for him. Yeah, like he's got okay, the one

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who's like attempted suicide before, and
yeah I did in the area where he's

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tried to commit suicide before. Maybe
that's what happened. It's just it.

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I don't know. I was but
but then it's a smaller town, so

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you go, which was something that
really wasn't pushed. How how how bad

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were these police? Like were they
you know? Or were they? Were

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they andy? And and you know
don nuts were they where they you know?

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Or or were they were they corrupt? Or were they just they because

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afterwards you must think they would had
to go back and look at a ton

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of cases. Is that these guys
had done right? Yeah? I would

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think so, and just like re
examine all that that's just such a huge

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headache like which but also come come
back to the quota thing. Well,

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if you're if you're fudging your work, what's the point of reaching the quota?

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So yeah, and I think a
lot. I'm yeah, you're absolutely

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right. If you're just going to
fudge the number anyway, what's the difference.

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But we just lets like the world
that we live in. It's like

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we live in this like corporate thing
where every month has to be better than

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the previous month. And I've always
thought for years like that system. Yeah,

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like a certain point it's like,
Okay, we have to sell two

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more units in last month, but
we're selling millions more than we were six

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months ago, Like what are we
talking about? Yeah, it's exhausting.

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It just never ends. You should
you should uh uh not not not be

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happy, you can not be not
satisfied, but and and want more without

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being greedy, you know. And
I feel like the greed sometimes is just

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and this is completely different. We're
going on f on a different thing like

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that. I don't think there should
be a quota to the police department.

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No, And I think even the
stop sign thing and and those those guys

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having a quota is bullshit. It's
totally it's it's just like that's no.

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No. I don't know if it's
like this in other places, but in

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Southern California, when I've done nothing
wrong, I my blood will chill if

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I see an officer in the rearview
mirror, because you just don't know if

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they're gonna pull you over for some
well I would hope that would get me

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out of it somehow. But but
I am talking like that. It was

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a good yeah, But I mean, you'll just I'll be going the speed

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limit and then I'll see a cop
and I'll just go, oh god,

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oh no, was I was?
I not going to speed limit, Like

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they haven't even put the lights on
yet. But it's just so common out

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here to get pulled over for any
number of things, and yeah, it's

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just all that's all the quotas and
stuff. I'm just like, don't you

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have crime to take care of?
I remember one day I was riding my

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bike in Belmont Shore where we live, and I was going up the wrong

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way of one way one a way
street on a bike on a bike,

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and the cop pulled me over.
Was he on a bike? No?

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Great, but he pulled me over
and he's like, what are you doing?

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Ride my bike? Going to the
gym? He goes, you're going

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the wrong way, and I go, yeah, I'm a bad man.

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Wow, that's good, and I
was. I knew I was annoyed because

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two blocks away there's a jack in
a box where they sell heroin. Yeah

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exactly, and you're bugging me riding
the wrong way, like that's those are

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the things that get me going.
I was like, Okay, I know

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they're selling heroin. They call that. You know they're selling heroin, And

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why are you bugging me for riding
my bike there? You know? Yeah,

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I prefer I prefer being able to
see the traffic come at me when

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I'm riding my bike. Yeah exactly. So also we're talking about like a

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wide street, a wide city street. Here, we're talking about like a

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neighborhood street too. I'm not ridiculous
by the way that that jack in the

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box where they sell the cocaine or
the hero when do they call it crack

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in the box. That's a good
name, the crack in the back,

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I should say. Also, it's
the sleepiest little it's the sleepiest little jacking

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about it. Yeah. By the
way, uh Fenton al the worst business

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model ever, right, yeah,
kill kill anyone who drives it. Yea,

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it doesn't make sense you want to
sell it more than once. That's

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why they cut it with baby powder
before, because people would you get more

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out of it? Yeah, anyway, just started bringing up business model.

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No, that's good, that's good. I did want to say for our

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one fan out there who explained to
me that he never listens to the Sword

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and Scale. He just listens to
art show and he might be wondering,

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why don't people like this episode of
Sword and Scale. And I want to

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explain to that one listener, you
should play in the beginning. I could,

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I should go editing that whole opening
clip. Don't try to cops,

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that's right. This is the Don't
Talk to Cops episode, and the narrator

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of our beloved show, Mike Budet, explains that you should never talk to

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cops. If you were guilty of
a crime, don't talk to cops.

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If you're innocent of a crime,
don't talk to cops. Make sure you

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have a lawyer, because a cop, especially a detective, they're not interested

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in your best interests. They're interested
in cracking their case. And so this

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is a story of somebody who talked
to cops and they were innocent, And

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this entire episode is you want to
punch the wall because these detectives are just

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really taking advantage of this kid who's
wailing and crying and clearly had nothing to

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do with this crime. And it
never stops. But what was making people

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so upset was Mike saying don't talk
to cops. And people, I think

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this episode was first released, it
was during the sort of like Black Lives

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Matter, lots of riots and this
idea of defunding the police. All these

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social issues were kind of happening while
this episode came out, and so I

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think people took great umbrage with the
fact that you're saying, don't talk to

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police officers, like, we're trying
to restore some balance between policing and our

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community, and if you're telling people
not to talk to those police officers,

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you're just causing further pain to those
communities. It's funny how he stirs up

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both of the left and the right. Yeah, he just like, hey,

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what's that little tiggle to the bus? No, No, we're a

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little tiggle to the bus. Well. I mean I would argue that I

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kind of will get upset when they
hear the truth. They do, but

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he also doesn't sugarcoat the truth.
Yeah, and sometimes he uses a way

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that that is good for the show, right, but it's not. You

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know, I kind of I kind
of think from when I heard him say

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it, I was like, oh, I should know my rights. Yeah

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exactly. I think that was sort
of the root of what he's talking he

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was talking about. Yeah, but
the way he says it, he says,

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don't tie to the cops is dead
and people are like, well,

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you gotta talk to the instead of
him saying, hey, take a Civics

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class. You a fucking doorbell?
Yeah, yeah, which is which I

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I didn't. I didn't know because
I'm not from here. I didn't take

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a civics class, so I didn't
know. I am from here and I

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did not take a civics class.
It's not taught. That's the whole idea.

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Or a civic class gone unless you
are like specializing in it, or

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you happen to go to like a
really nice high school or something. But

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yeah, they don't. I took, like everybody should take a civic class.

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Took like government classes in high school, kind of learned about the history

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of the government and how that's histories. Yeah, but I never learned the

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ins and outs of your rights as
a citizen like they just. And I

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went to a pretty good high school
too, but they did not teach anything

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00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.799
like that. Maybe just touch unsl
golf bows on a good damn golf course.

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Callback callback go a different episode.
Okay, would you have known that

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before this episode? No, And
in fact, I have a deep internal

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struggle with it. Still I understand
logically what Mike is trying to say.

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Yes, having said that, if
I came home to find a murdered loved

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one that I know I had nothing
to do with, I would feel really

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weird, saying I gotta call my
lawyer. We've talked about this another episode

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00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.759
we've talked about just a few weeks
ago. You would say it different.

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You would say I've got to call
a lawyer. Yeah, you would not

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say my lawyer. That's true.
My lawyer is on speed dial because I

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deal with as all the time.
Like, that's that's different. Let me

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call my dad. Yeah yeah,
But I like, and this is all

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part of the opening of this episode, the idea of like pleaing the fifth

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that is meant to protect the innocent, but in this world that we live

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in, the only people who plead
the fifth are like, guilty, shit

219
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better, you don't want to say
it. And so along those same lines

220
00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:30.080
again, I understand intellectually that I
should not be sitting to an interrogator and

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like telling them my story without having
somebody next to me who knows it better.

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But it again, it feels weird
to me. I would be like,

223
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why do I need a lawyer for
I can totally tell you that I

224
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:45.639
was doing a podcast with Ian Bag
why I bring you know, I'm totally

225
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.120
with you. But after this,
yeah, I'm like, Okay, I

226
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.960
guess I have to. Yeah,
you just it's support used to should but

227
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it just makes you seem guilty.
That's what's so weird about It makes you

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seem guilty even though what you're saying
is no, listen, I'm only innocent.

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I don't want anything to be confused
about it, and thus I'm getting

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00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.799
an attorney. But it just totally
sounds like you're guilty. It's a weird

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system that way. So this episode
reminded me of a neighbor we used to

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have who we learned we knew,
we knew his wife had died. We

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learned that he spent a year in
jail while they thought he had done it.

234
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So when I heard this, I
kind of because I'm to come on

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00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.279
our podcast. Yeah, well I
think he did it, but it's one

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of those things to come. This
might have to we might we might have

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to. But I don't know where
he is anymore, because I'm pretty sure

238
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:47.200
he was bolted Jane, where he's
going he ran. But but when I

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00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.880
heard this, I was like,
I wonder if that's how he got like

240
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.759
how he got trapped. Yeah,
yeah, whether he he screwed up and

241
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.880
said something and that little bit more
than he should have, and just that

242
00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:02.039
little nugget was like, well,
you might have done something, even though

243
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.440
he didn't. Yeah, it's this
episode really messes me up. It was

244
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.960
I was not happy about this episode. I was not happy. This is

245
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.880
not happy. Go lucky when when
I feel like this could affect me,

246
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even though the other ones could affect
me, but the other ones seem really

247
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distant. But with that that had
happened to the neighbor and just to hear

248
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something that I didn't have the knowledge
to do, Yeah, if that had

249
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.079
happened to me. So do you
think now? If I mean again,

250
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.480
play play play? Should this never
happen to you? But if something like

251
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.279
the scenario, would you do this
thing? Now? Where you just go?

252
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.680
I'm not going to talk to you
until I have an attorney present.

253
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I think I should have a lawyer
with Yeah, yeah, if you need,

254
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if you need to. If I'm
not coming in as a witness,

255
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I'm coming in as as a person
of interest, I'm going to need somebody

256
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.920
with Yeah. Even though I know
I didn't do it. I I've heard

257
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.720
Mike Budet Yeah, and I need
to. Yeah. You know what's funny

258
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.880
too, is I'm just realizing one
of the episodes that I worked on that

259
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:18.160
is on plus for that one,
um, there was actually hold on now

260
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.839
i'm thinking about it, the episode
might have been one of the main ones

261
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:23.279
that might have been un negative.
Yeah, it's like one of the it's

262
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:27.440
it's way down the line. But
this was a story about a girl who

263
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:34.079
murdered her mom and stepdad, and
when she got into the interrogation room,

264
00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:40.559
she was very like pop culturally minded, and so they sat her down and

265
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she was like, Um, I've
just seen it in a lot of TV

266
00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.839
shows that that I should have a
lawyer president. So I just think I

267
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.240
just think you'd be best if I
had a lawyer president. And they you

268
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:53.759
can just hear them going, sure, okay, fine, fine, fine,

269
00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:00.319
But then they continued to question her
for ten hours, but she was

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00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.920
just like talking about like her interests. But you can just hear them trying

271
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:08.640
still trying to talk to her.
They're not really like directly questioning her,

272
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.640
but maybe you get a little nugget
nugget of info because anything you say in

273
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.799
that chair is going to come back. How do they get away with that?

274
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.440
Though, even though she's lawyered up, because they're like they weren't asking

275
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:25.559
her necessarily about the case. They
would kind of ask her about like they

276
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.759
like, for example, they gave
her a pad of paper because she liked

277
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.559
to draw. And so this girl
starts like drawing her like anime characters,

278
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.599
and they would say like, oh, tell us about that. What is

279
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.480
that you're drawing? And then she
starts describing the anime and you're like,

280
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.519
oh, she's talking about her relationship
with her mom, Like you could just

281
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.599
hear that that's what she's saying.
She doesn't know it because it's just she's

282
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:47.680
just drawing, but they're doing little
things like that. Anyway, I popped

283
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.880
into my mind because I'm realizing,
even if you say I would like an

284
00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:53.759
attorney present, You're not just going
to be sitting there quietly, I don't

285
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.839
think unless you are really just clammed
up and just like nope, say a

286
00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.799
word, Like everyone still talk to
you. Have you ever you've watched the

287
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.920
first forty eight before? Yeah,
yeah, makes sense now that when you

288
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:08.039
see some of those those uh people
that have been charged with murder and stuff,

289
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:11.200
and when they call, they'll just
lie down on the floor. Yeah.

290
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.799
Now, yeah, now you know
why, because I just not gonna

291
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.920
I'm not answering any I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna entertain even a fraction of

292
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:22.039
a second. Right, Yeah,
you mentioned earlier that civics classes and the

293
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:26.000
fact that they're not taught in school. Here's my thought. You tell me

294
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.799
what you think. Okay, this
is my idea. We're not doing a

295
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:37.960
civics class. We're doing a covert
operation for all graduating seniors individually. Each

296
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:42.039
member of the graduating class will be
fake arrested. Right, you'll just be

297
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.200
at the mall with your friends.
I'd excuse me, mister bag. You

298
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.119
need to come with us, and
you will then get a first hand training

299
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.160
experience for what it's like to be
arrested, what's like to be accused of

300
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:57.160
a crime you didn't commit. Okay, go through an interrogation, and then

301
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.960
at the end, it's like that
movie The Game with Michael Dutt and say

302
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.200
that it was all a big joke. But now you've learned. What do

303
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.599
you think I was gonna say?
I was gonna say this sounds like the

304
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.880
Game, That's what I was gonna
say. And we know that went wrong.

305
00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:17.319
Well, so so hey, everybody
chairs at the end, except for

306
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:22.599
those three people that died. Yeah, all right, I do think think

307
00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.920
I do think those kind of those
those uh what do they called first person

308
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:33.720
games are good for learning. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Maybe

309
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.359
it's maybe it's a video game instead
of resting them. Yeah, well they

310
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.960
have that game too. It's called
Grand Theft Auto. Actually, no,

311
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:41.480
hold on. This is reminding me
of another thing. There is a video

312
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:47.240
game I played at once. It's
called La Noir. It's kind of like

313
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.759
a Grand Theft Auto game, but
takes place in the nineteen forties, and

314
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:55.839
you are a police detective and part
of the game is interrogations, and you

315
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.759
actually interrogate the characters and then when
they'll like say, aligned you, you

316
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.079
have to like push a or b
whether or not you believe what they're saying,

317
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.839
and if you want to like grill
them a little bit harder. I

318
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.240
was terrible at this game because,
probably because the graphics were terrible. It's

319
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.839
hard to read human emotions. But
they get into it in this in this

320
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:22.000
episode as well, with the traditional
signs of when somebody's lying and how that

321
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.119
doesn't really fucking mean anything, it's
bullshit. I feel like I learned a

322
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.359
lot listening to this episode. It's
funny. My wife was this is another

323
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.559
one what we listened in the car
together and when it came up about the

324
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:38.119
lying things. She's like, bullshit, when you lie, you look out

325
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.480
the left, and I'm like one
of my lynes. She goes, I

326
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.400
know when you're lying immediately, So
I'm just like, well, she's calling

327
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.880
bullshit on this guy. I don't
know. I don't know how, but

328
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.480
I don't think. I don't know. I guess they say you look up

329
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.960
when you're thinking or something like that. That's why they can tell you're lying.

330
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.039
This guy sounds like he's in This
professor seems to know what he's talking

331
00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.839
about, and he's calling bullshit on
it. Yes, so well, the

332
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.759
really the case and it's been thirty
minutes of the show we still haven't even

333
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:14.759
mentioned like the actual story of it. It's because fucking Mike's send chills up

334
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:18.279
everybody's spine as soon as you heard
it. They're gonna arrest you for something

335
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.559
you didn't do. Get ready,
welcome to the Gulagi sons of bitches,

336
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:27.160
No chance of parol. You're done. But this guy, William Hurt,

337
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:32.559
not the actor. I was disappointed. That was disappointing to hear. He

338
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.279
is an eighteen year old who is
living with his mom, his two sisters,

339
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:44.039
and then like a foster brother who's
incredibly suspicious but paying no attention because

340
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:45.799
apparently it's a big red herring that
has nothing to do with the story,

341
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:55.839
and the mom has a like a
foster brother who is the man who would

342
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.960
become the victim in this story.
Now, he was apparently at the family

343
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:07.119
home playing chess with this kid,
William, and then he left, William

344
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.839
went to bed, and then the
guy who left was never seen again.

345
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.920
Well, I should take that back. He's never seen alive alive. They

346
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:19.759
found him exactly where in the river
where he had tried to kill himself a

347
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:25.519
couple of times. Yeah, which, and then his injuries were like a

348
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:32.079
broken neckbone and a fractured rib.
So the neckbone was in a weird place

349
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.440
like where your tongue meets the back
of your throat, So it's kind of

350
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.839
a I'm guessing it was quite the
fall. That would be, yeah,

351
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.559
exactly to me. That should all
just be indicative of somebody took a nasty

352
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.240
fall and they like broke their neck, like that's what I'm assuming in a

353
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.559
rib when they fell. Not he
was beaten to death by a group of

354
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.720
kids. They thought. They kept
saying that they everybody beat him to death.

355
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.799
But he didn't have he only had
the two injuries. Yeah, so

356
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.319
what is the kind of bulk of
this episode is the interrogation of this kid,

357
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:11.480
William, who for two hours is
telling the police officers the truth.

358
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.640
He's telling them exactly what happened and
that he went to bed and they are

359
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.960
just not buying it. And they're
not It's not that they're not buying it,

360
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.160
they're just even though they know they
know things are wrong that he's telling

361
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.200
them, they're just they're just they
don't care. They're dog on bone like

362
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:34.039
they're just they're ripping it apart.
They don't give a shit. Yeah,

363
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.960
because they're suddenly suddenly they're the perpetrators. Well, I want to play a

364
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:41.319
number of clips because that's what I
like to do on this ship. He

365
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:48.920
likes plain clips. This first one, the board clip leaving his first one

366
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:53.359
is I think it happens pretty early
on in the episode, but it just

367
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.519
gives you, I think, a
pretty good glimpse into the minds of these

368
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:04.640
detectives where they're just already on like
a denial roll. Like it doesn't weird.

369
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.920
Like I said before, I just
don't get why they why they just

370
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.799
think they're being lied to. Yeah, there's just like, Oh, that

371
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.720
kid that works at the ice cream
shops definitely guilty of murder. Yeah,

372
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.839
he wouldn't get me bubbledum him that
one day, he's gonna fucking suffer.

373
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.119
Now, granted, the corpse had
his eyeball scooped out with an ice cream

374
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.160
scooper. Okay, maybe we're onto
something here. We found on the side

375
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.519
of there were two cones filled with
ice with eyeballs, Yeah, one with

376
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.119
sugar. One was skinking. All
right, So here's this clip of these

377
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:42.839
cops already down this kid's throughout.
This kid's trying to is trying to tell

378
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.960
them about something that happened a while
ago. I guess it's been a month

379
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.680
or so that's passed, and the
cops are nitpicking everything that this kid's saying.

380
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.599
So in this clip, he like
forgot to mention that his mom gave

381
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.400
them coffee or something before she went
to bed. That's sort of the foundation

382
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:07.039
of this number One. Would your
mom never witnesses she told me about it?

383
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.000
You sure she wasn't there when the
container coffee came out? Well,

384
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.839
she gave her collee toomeber. Okay, remember I told you I wanted specific

385
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.200
details. Okay, that's something you
left out. I want you leave anything

386
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.240
else out. Yeah, I'm going
to tell you how it happened, and

387
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.519
then you're going to agree. Yeah. That's what this entire conversation becomes,

388
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.039
is just like no, you're gonna
smile and nod of what we say.

389
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:32.480
And you. I mean, for
me, I put myself in the mind

390
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:38.319
of William and he's he's trying so
hard to like help the police with what

391
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.240
they're trying to do, and just
not seeing that they're really closing in on

392
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:47.880
him, right, you know so
which But the thing that bothers me again

393
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:53.160
is is why why they want to
why they want to do this? Like

394
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.880
what if they're not good, they're
not good at their job. If you're

395
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.720
putting the wrong person in jail,
you're not good your job, yeah,

396
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:04.880
or you're putting the wrong person in
jail on purpose. Like there's there's only

397
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:11.160
two two things Like that's you're either
bad or you're working bad. Now,

398
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:17.920
like, well, I think this
particular talking man, I shouldn't be a

399
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:21.720
detective. I confuse them into the
ground with my worth. You madre you

400
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:26.680
man, you man, you're mad
man, man man Uh, these guys

401
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.839
are doing something that is a particular
kind of I don't want to call it

402
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.400
evil, but a certain kind of
wrongdoing, which is that they think that

403
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.240
they are doing the right thing,
but they're not. They're not, but

404
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.599
they are justified in the things that
they're doing, so they don't stop.

405
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.559
And what is a fault for that? At least? What's the theory in

406
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:55.359
this episode is this idea of the
read technique, which is this they call

407
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:00.039
it the Bible of interrogation, and
it's broken down into all these phases and

408
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.480
steps and so the argument of this
episode is that the re technique is at

409
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:11.200
fault because it's giving these interrogators the
confidence to think that they are doing something

410
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:17.359
correct, but it's not. You
know, they are there. It's designed

411
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:26.599
to make you anxious to deny things
as opposed to making it easier for you

412
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.680
to just water boardom. That seems
like the next logical step the way that

413
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.480
these guys are in. If you're
just if you just want him to say

414
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:40.160
what you want him to say,
Yeah, you're you're that's not gonna they're

415
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.920
not getting the truth. Well here's
the thought too. We a couple of

416
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.039
weeks ago and actually many weeks on
the show, we deal with these killers

417
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.559
who are so arrogant. And this
is a strange episode because it's the police

418
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.640
officers that I think are being really
arrogant. They're the ones who are just

419
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.759
assuming that they know what's best,
they know how to spot a liar,

420
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.000
and in their their mind, I
think theo in the episode is like,

421
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.519
we don't interrogate innocent people, so
the fact that you're sitting in this chair

422
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.519
means that you have something to hide, and the mentality of that is what's

423
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.680
kind of screwing all this up.
And that's why I don't think that they're

424
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:18.000
necessarily being bad or lazy. They're
doing what they think is what an interrogator

425
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:26.960
does. But there's something about them
wanting just one person when they don't have

426
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:32.319
any physical evidence. They don't have
any you know, they're just that was

427
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.440
the last place he was, the
victim was was at this kid's house.

428
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.279
Yeah, like that's all as they
have. Yeah, no physical evidence or

429
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.799
anything like that. So they're just
I don't understand why they're taking such a

430
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:52.960
hard run at him. Like that's
why I think I'm trying to figure out

431
00:31:52.960 --> 00:32:00.359
whether they're just clueless or absolutely evil. Yeah, I mean, and again

432
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:04.400
we keep bringing up this idea of
quotas, which again we don't know if

433
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.480
it's actually a thing quote or not. But yeah, I mean again,

434
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.160
I just that's kind of what instinctually
it feels like to me, like they're

435
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:15.160
just like, man, we gotta
get the we gotta close the books on

436
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.480
this case. Like we're we have
so many open investigations right now, and

437
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.119
you know, we need to get
this number down so that we don't look

438
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.599
like a loser police department that's not
doing their job right. And so they

439
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:30.000
got a couple of people who are
like tangentially related because one of the other

440
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.720
things that's crazy about this episode is
that they're doing this to the sister too,

441
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.960
which is not revealed until three chords
the way through the episode, and

442
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:37.880
you're like, what the fuck.
Yeah, like, wait, they're not

443
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.880
just doing this to one they're doing
this to two different kids, and who

444
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.279
knows what she's saying about, you
know, what they're getting her to say

445
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:49.119
about her brother and oh, well
she said this, so let's go back

446
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.039
to him. You know, they
just have a hole. You think they

447
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.359
would have pulled out when it came
back when they said and then you guys

448
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:59.319
all went and spent his money,
right, and he ended up having only

449
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:00.799
thirty eight in the bank. So
the worst than that, it was eight

450
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:09.640
cents. So that right there,
doesn't you know, like that's you've run

451
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:15.720
into a wall there, And and
I don't understand why that wall doesn't make

452
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.319
them stop. It makes them push
even harder, makes them push even harder.

453
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.400
That's the wild part. I had
another thought too, along these same

454
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.160
lines, Well, these guys fired
these cops. Well, I do have

455
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.319
a little bit of an update here, Okay, at the end, we'll

456
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:30.759
find out I can do at the
end, although I don't know specifically if

457
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.599
they were fired, but I'm gonna
just say that they're probably not working anymore

458
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:40.960
based on what I've read, So
they yeah, they yeah, we'll talk

459
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:46.160
about it when we got to it. What I was gonna say is they

460
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:52.200
are acting like they're interrogating some like
super villain. And one of the things

461
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.319
about the story that I found kind
of interesting is the notion of chess,

462
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:01.039
and that this kid played chess with
the guy before he disappeared. The kid

463
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:07.039
obviously likes to play chess. I
would think that if I was interrogating a

464
00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:13.480
criminal mastermind who was also a fan
of chess, that it would be a

465
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.960
much more difficult interrogation, Yeah,
that he would always be one step ahead.

466
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.119
But instead, that to me is
like a big clue that this kid's

467
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.000
telling the truth about things, because
the fact that he's a chess player tells

468
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:31.119
me that he has some concept of
logical thinking of of you know, action

469
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:36.639
and reaction. But the way that
he's talking should like explain to you that

470
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.199
this kid is not an evil genius. He's not an evil genius. And

471
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:44.760
he says many times, I don't
get what you want me to say.

472
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:47.039
You're trying to get me to say
something, but I don't understand what you

473
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.800
want me to say. I'll say
what you want me to say if you

474
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.920
just tell me what you want me
to say. Yeah, And they're like,

475
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.719
now you got to say what you
want to say. It's so frustra

476
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.039
it's so frustrating for the kids.
Like and we've had this, we've had

477
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:07.039
this talk before where the murderer has
been eighteen years old. Yeah, and

478
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:12.960
we've talked about you know, at
some point you got to take responsibility.

479
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.639
But when you hear that this other
kid talk, this kid talk, who

480
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.519
turns out to be the victim.
He's so innocent. Yeah, he's just

481
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.920
they're just you know, they're almost
taken down for his gump. You know,

482
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.960
it's just it's just annoying. Let's
play another clip here, that speaking

483
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:34.079
number two? Oh boy, is
that number two? I've been jumping all

484
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.039
over the place here, Um,
just kind of speaking to what you're saying.

485
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:44.719
Probably the detectives ask him like,
well, I just guess I'll just

486
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:45.840
have to play the clip. Let
me just play the clip. He's playing

487
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.440
the clip. Everyone's got the round. Clips are being played. You understand

488
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.039
we know more than what? Yeah, do you think I already know?

489
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.639
I was feeling you guys already know. Detectives, what do you think?

490
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:06.159
Well, I think you know what
happened to Mark, and I think you

491
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.159
know you don't know what necessarily what
happened, not like all what happened.

492
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.159
I know he goes some the exact
time of days he was there, and

493
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:20.280
some of the stuff that he has
done wasn't that last week. That's about

494
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.880
all I know. So what I
was trying to get to with that clip

495
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.800
is it's like, if you were
to read the words of what he's saying,

496
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.840
it would sound like he's taunting the
police, right, because they'll say,

497
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.199
like, what do you think we
know? Like, I think you

498
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:37.800
know quite a lot about this murder, because you guys are detectives, and

499
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.000
I'm sure you've got it all figured
out by now, Like that's what the

500
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:45.639
words look like on a paper.
But when you hear him saying it,

501
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:51.239
he's not taunting them. He's like
politely answering them honestly, like what do

502
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:52.880
you think we know? Well,
I mean, I'm you guys are detectives,

503
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.599
so I'm sure you guys know.
You must know, you must know

504
00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:00.000
instead of your detectives, you must
know. Like it. There's a different

505
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:01.440
prints when you hear it versus when
you read it, which is why I

506
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:07.159
don't trust Twitter. Yeah, don't
talk to Twitter. Yeah that should be

507
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:08.840
the other. When you say things
on Twitter, people don't always hear what

508
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:13.320
you said. Yeah, that's why
I say, if you read my Twitter,

509
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.079
read it in my voice. Yeah, that'll go a lot farther.

510
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.960
Yeah. Another clip here, This
one Uber three makes my blood boil.

511
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:28.840
Bloiling blood clip went to bed?
What's the next noise you here? Okay,

512
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:35.360
nothing at all? Nothing? Do
you have any kind of disabilities.

513
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:42.280
I did have quote, but mental
disabilities, not mental Now you make these

514
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.920
grace I engraduate Junior, who goes
with it. I won't tell you what

515
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:52.239
you got. The inconsistencies with some
of the stories you tell. I think

516
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.639
it was just that particular line of
questioning where they went like, you went

517
00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:59.079
to bed, you didn't hear anything. Do you have mental problems? Like

518
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.440
I just seem so rude to me
almost, I don't know it was,

519
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:06.280
it was, yeah, do you
have mental problems? Do you have any

520
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.840
disabilities? I got a club foot, any mental problems like that wasn't good

521
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.480
enough? Yeah, well, speaking
of the clubs, sure, I don't

522
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:19.599
have club sandwich foot. Oh delicious. The thing about the club foot is

523
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:24.519
by the end of this, he's
like talking about sleep walking or something.

524
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.679
Do you remember this part in the
episode goes, I got, well,

525
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.239
maybe maybe I have slept walk before, so maybe I did this in my

526
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.360
sleep I don't. I don't remember
doing it. Yeah. Then it's like,

527
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.599
but I couldn't chase him. I
had I have a club foot.

528
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.119
Yeah, I told you guys earlier. Yeah, but that at that point

529
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:46.719
the cops must just be so desperate
that to get him to say, like

530
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.840
he said so many times, I
never saw him after I went to sleep,

531
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.280
and they're like, we saw you
that you saw him after you would

532
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:55.719
probab sleep. How about the fact
that they said, we have photos of

533
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:02.760
you all in the car or right, So, so when you have to

534
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:09.000
do that and there's there's no photos
of it, it's you know, they're

535
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.199
saying, well, there's just you
know, they're kind of bending the truth.

536
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.320
No, they're fucking they're fucking with
him now. He's just like,

537
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:21.599
you do why do you have that
right? Well, I have sleptwalk before,

538
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.360
but I don't think I went out
with my family and drove around.

539
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:30.800
Yeah, and murdered someone. I
know. It's it's so strange that they

540
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:37.280
use lies to get information. But
again, part of what makes it such

541
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:42.559
a complicated issue is that if that
person really did do something horrible and they

542
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:46.320
don't want to talk about it,
I'm like, okay with the cops figuring

543
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:52.119
out a sneaky way get that person
to him too. But when when you're

544
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:58.800
making up a lie, like we
have photos of you driving around and there's

545
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:04.159
no photos of him drive having around, it's it's that's more than being okay,

546
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.199
well we know that you're in the
car. We have your fingerprints in

547
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.480
the car, right, Well,
maybe you do have my finger prints in

548
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:13.159
the car. I've been in there
before, you know what I mean.

549
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:16.719
That's that's okay. Well they also
tried to do that with him too.

550
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:20.800
They were asking him like, am
I going to find DNA evidence of you?

551
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:23.440
And he says something like like on
his hand or on his back?

552
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:27.400
Because I patted him on the back, I gave him a hug or something.

553
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:30.840
I know everybody I know a hurt
that might but why is it on

554
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.480
his bad Why did he giz on
his bad Yeah, I'm not not going

555
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:40.719
a DNA I got a DNA test. Now. We mentioned earlier the foster

556
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.400
kid who's also living in this house, Harley Wade, who had a tendency

557
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:49.559
toward violence, and when he first
moved in, he almost choked the mom

558
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.079
to death. I felt like that
would have been a big red flag to

559
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.239
return return that foster kid, like
what do you do? Maybe we don't

560
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.000
need the five hundred a month.
Yeah, But as mentioned earlier, the

561
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:06.760
fact that that guy was never interrogated
just because because he would have to have

562
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:12.039
an attorney with him. This is
another like damning statement for these officers that

563
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:16.440
are very they're very lazy police officers, and they're not good police officers.

564
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:22.280
And I'm if I'm coming across anti
police, I am not. I'm not

565
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:27.079
anti police. But the police aren't
one hundred percent perfect either. They're just

566
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:32.760
the same as everything else. There's
bad in everything. And when sometimes they

567
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.280
go up, you know, bad
ends up upstream and dilutes the rest of

568
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.199
the stream, you know, and
it makes it, it makes it murky.

569
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:46.079
So you have to you have to
realize that sometimes it's bad and it's

570
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:51.760
not. They're not there for to
protect. There there for their own mission,

571
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.480
own reasons missions. They're on their
own mission, Yeah, from Tom

572
00:41:54.559 --> 00:42:00.239
Cruise, to make everybody's scientologists.
That's right. I thought it was interesting

573
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.480
too when the when the kid said
that he saw some news alert on his

574
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.840
phone right that the police were like, well, you said that you you

575
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:10.599
knew it was a body or you
knew it was your uncle. How did

576
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.440
you know that? He's like,
as I saw it on my phone and

577
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.880
I just have thought, oh,
maybe that's my uncle who disappeared. I

578
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.760
haven't seen him, we haven't heard
from him again. We kind of were

579
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:24.559
going in circles here, but the
police just putting the words into his mouth.

580
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.840
I was kind of impressed at a
sixteen year old had of news alerts

581
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:31.599
coming up. Yeah, that's true. I was like, Wow, let's

582
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:35.679
play another clip. I don't know
what number this one is four, perhaps

583
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:38.920
number four. This is the one
around everyone clips are happening. This is

584
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:44.519
the one where I feel like they
finally broke him. They finally break this

585
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:51.039
kid and he starts crying and just
doesn't know how to tell them something that

586
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.559
they haven't already heard. Can I
ask, do you think it's he should

587
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.199
have been able to you know what? I maybe I do need a lawyer,

588
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.239
like he should have been able to
do that, you should be able

589
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.000
to Definitely, I'm glad you brought
that up, because that was another one

590
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:07.119
of Mike's points about this is that
the kid didn't know that he had to

591
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.559
stay right, or didn't know that
he could leaves what I meant to say,

592
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.840
and so he just just sat there
and just kept taking this punishment for

593
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.719
just hours and hours and hours.
But here is them breaking him and the

594
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.880
cop just such a fucking dick thing
to him. Pretty early on. Okay,

595
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.000
I'll start from the beginning. I'll
give me exactly everything that I know.

596
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.480
Is it gonna be the same shot
we've already heard? Yes? Possibly

597
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.719
that part right there. I'm gonna
tell you guys, is it the same

598
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:39.960
shit we already heard? Like?
All right, can I just go please?

599
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.559
Well, yeah, it's gonna be
the same shit. Yeah, okay.

600
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:51.079
Look, I want to know what
happened to Marcus. I think one

601
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:52.760
time you cared about it, all
right, and you still care about him,

602
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.719
all right. I need to find
out what happened there. We need

603
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:05.800
to know, we to know how
much you're evolved it. What do you

604
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.440
know if you're the one at harming
I'm not the one that armed him.

605
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.719
Do you know who? Oh?
I don't. I think you're leave him

606
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:21.079
some amount. I don't know.
I'm being serious. I don't know who

607
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:30.559
armed however, he left. I
don't they does. Yeah. I just

608
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:34.440
at the end of that clip where
you just hear the kid go like,

609
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:37.760
oh my God, like he just
can't fathom that this is happening to him.

610
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.360
I just feel so bad for him
at that. Yeah, you think

611
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:44.199
he's ever gonna trust a gap again? No, I don't think so.

612
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.239
They talk a little bit as well. We mentioned earlier that he worked at

613
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:52.039
an ice cream shop um and that
detectives had come to visit him there.

614
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:57.159
I thought this was interesting. They
noticed that his hand was swollen and had

615
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:01.159
scrapes on it, and then William
said that he punched a tree and that's

616
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:04.880
why he scrapes on his hand.
I just thought bad. But at the

617
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.280
same time, I'm like, ah, yeah, he's sixteen, right's yeah,

618
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:12.800
they're like eighteen by the time.
I don't know if he's eighteen at

619
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:14.719
the time of the trial or at
the time of this store. I think

620
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.159
he's eighteen when he gets interrogated one
of the sixteen eighteen. Yeah, but

621
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:21.079
you do stupid things when yeah,
at that age and you're just like,

622
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:24.159
oh man, there's that, there's
that that guy, that governor that's in

623
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:27.960
a wheelchair. They have the pictures
of the video him beating up a tree.

624
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.559
Yeah, so you know it happened. It happens people beat up trees.

625
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:32.599
But what are the weird time,
like just the time you're like,

626
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.719
fuck, really have punched a tree
three days before the exactly bad, terrible

627
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.000
timing. And I don't know,
did you ever work in an ice cream

628
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.559
store or have friends that worked at
an ice cream store. No, I

629
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:49.639
had friends that worked at the local
thirty and your hands get gnarled, really

630
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.440
screwed up, and they get like
like milky and uh and pruny. It's

631
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.519
gross. What are they soaking in
the ice cream? What they kind of

632
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:00.760
do? If you're working an ice
cream shop over the summer, you're just

633
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:06.039
constantly gonna dip that scooper in the
water and scrape it all out. Because

634
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.000
I said to my wife, and
I'm like, what the fuck's happening at

635
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.960
that ice cream shop? That he's
all scarred up? Yeah, well that

636
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.719
seemed like maybe I don't know what
they were talking about, the rods or

637
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.159
something, the wires around from from
the lids, right, Yeah, maybe

638
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.480
that's what it was. But I'm
telling you I had friends that. First

639
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.400
of all, you smell awful when
you work in ice creams. You start

640
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:28.280
it starts out with that waffle cone
smell, but eventually is just like that,

641
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.000
like, uh, spoiled milk would
probably be the best thing to describe.

642
00:46:31.559 --> 00:46:35.800
Bring that with you wherever you go. Oh man, gross, it's

643
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.039
way gross. Always work in a
yogurt chop, never an ice cream chop.

644
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:42.599
That's the key. You gotta get
that soft served baby can come to

645
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.639
you. They let him just weigh
it and send him on. My favorite

646
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:47.320
part is that they have the tip
machine on those yogurt things and like,

647
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:51.280
I just did all the work,
your sons of it. Yeah, let's

648
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:57.039
jump to the false confession because I
think it's interesting. You did it,

649
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:02.679
You did it did The story that
they eventually concoct is very bizarre, which

650
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.199
is that they he played chess with
his quote unquote uncle who then left,

651
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:13.760
and then rather than going to bed, which he claimed he did, the

652
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:20.519
officers get both him and his sister
to admit quote unquote that they got into

653
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.840
a vehicle after ending the chase game, drove along the road, saw him

654
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:30.800
walking there, stopped the car,
and then the crazy foster kid got out

655
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:36.920
and started laughing and then eventually started
punching and kicking and choking this guy.

656
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:42.159
And then the other kids also got
involved in this punching and kicking and choking,

657
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.840
and then they took the body that
covered it in a tarp and they

658
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.440
threw it in the river. But
then when you kind of learn about all

659
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:55.880
the different and it was like up
current. It was upstream from where they

660
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.599
claimed. Oh yeah, yeah,
I forgot about that. Yeah, all

661
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:01.039
these and then again all the like, oh we have footage of you,

662
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.760
we have the DNA, like,
none of that. They don't have any

663
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:10.000
of that, which going back to
are they evil or are they just bad?

664
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:14.840
I mean, yeah, just I
think they're evil. You just think

665
00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:19.519
they're straight. I think that.
I think when you just go after one

666
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:22.679
thing and don't have a group of
subspects at the beginning, you're in you're

667
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:25.760
this guy did it, This guy
did it. Yeah, you've got it.

668
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.800
You've got some sort of boner for
being a bad person. Yeah,

669
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:32.039
because you're right. I mean,
these guys, these cops couldn't possibly have

670
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.599
fully believed, knowing all these facts, that the kid did it. They

671
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:39.639
all just keep I know, they'll
just keep blowing up too, and they

672
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:43.280
never let the kid know that it
blew up. Well, maybe you're right,

673
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.880
maybe you're right. They never say
that to the kid once, where

674
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:50.119
like, well maybe you're right,
maybe you know you're right. Okay,

675
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:52.800
you aren't. You do your hands
are scraped up because of ice cream?

676
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:55.679
You're right? Yeah, but why
this and then he's able to do that?

677
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.800
Okay, all right? Then yeah, you could just tell from the

678
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:05.920
quality of his answers that he's speaking
the truth, and going back to the

679
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:12.719
sort of the science behind this whole
thing, the fact that false confessions happen

680
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:15.880
a lot. I had a lot
more than you think that they would.

681
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:21.719
And they don't just happen to people
who are maybe at a mental disadvantage or

682
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:24.079
they're a juvenile, like what happens
to normal people, which is something that

683
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:29.000
blew my mind because I thought it
was always somebody that had some sort of

684
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:32.440
mental disability. Yeah, I didn't
think any just normal person just agreed to

685
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:37.880
it. Yeah, which again it
just asking ourselves the question of I guess

686
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:44.880
now I would have to in that
scenario ask for a lawyer, but it's

687
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:51.239
still not clear really why, like
why did they confess? It really is

688
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.360
just to like be left alone.
Well, like I just feel like I

689
00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:58.679
would go to my fucking grave.
I would say that interrogation room for forty

690
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:00.440
eight hours, which you would never
hear me say that I did it because

691
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:05.719
I didn't. It's kind of the
same thing when people you're a victim,

692
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.199
you're a victim, and that you're
you're you're being beaten down, you're being

693
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.480
you so you're you just want just
leave me alone. Just just leave me

694
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:20.079
alone. Um. And there's it's
it's more than just you know, um

695
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.719
that that case, it's like,
um, there was a hockey player that

696
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:30.159
was raped by a video coach.
You know, they got drunk and he

697
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:32.920
took advantage of them, and then
the guy held above them. Hey,

698
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.920
I'm going to take your career away
if you tell anybody about this, like,

699
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:39.760
and people are like, why wouldn't
you beat him up? Because it

700
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:44.400
doesn't matter, It doesn't matter about
your size. But when people have of

701
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:49.039
power, of power, when the
cop that put that uh or that coach

702
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:53.880
hold that above you, you turn
into a weak person. Yeah, that's

703
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.639
true. And the cop is that
they're they're a person of power. They're

704
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.800
holding they're holding your life in their
hands. And you're like, oh,

705
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:04.400
if I do this, I'm gonna
you know, it's gonna be better for

706
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.760
me, even though it's not gonna
be better for you. But they've talked

707
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.880
you into believing it's going to be
better for you. Right now, that's

708
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.519
very well said. And that and
I'm not really in the way I said,

709
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:17.840
I just no. That was that
was perfect because it reminds me of

710
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:23.760
the sort of end of this false
confession, which is the kid asking the

711
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:30.719
police like, did what I just
say to you come close to what actually

712
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.000
happened? Like he's still a mind
in the ballpark yet him? Are you

713
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:36.840
guys making me play happy with me? Yet? Please? Like, even

714
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.199
in this moment of doing this false
confession, the kid, I think is

715
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.760
thinking his own innocence will prevail.
I'll say whatever you want, but you

716
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.639
guys know that I didn't really do
this. So if you want me to

717
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:51.280
say that and it will help your
case, then I'm gonna tell you that

718
00:51:51.400 --> 00:51:53.400
to help your case. But was
that close to that help? And that

719
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:58.039
guys are just like, yes,
it helped us perfectly right, And now

720
00:51:58.119 --> 00:52:01.679
that kid's screws just googles, yes, googles. Well, again, we

721
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:07.679
already went through this idea that all
of these aspects of the story could be

722
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:13.840
fact checked. The debit card having
eight cents on it, the location being

723
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.320
we've all been the eight cents,
we've all been there. Oh yeah,

724
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:22.960
we've all been there. But also
this idea and the like the doctor that

725
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:30.360
they the expert that is interviewed in
this episode also talks about how like how

726
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:36.760
convincing confessions are and that even when
you have the DNA evidence that might exonerate

727
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:44.079
somebody, the power of a verbal
confession will sometimes outweigh that DNA. Which

728
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:47.440
is so it just seems so backwards. You would think that the DNA this

729
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:52.159
is science, This is a scientific
proof that they were or were not there.

730
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:54.519
And they're like, well, they
said that they weren't there, so

731
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:59.840
that has to be what we've learned
that over over the pandemic. Science can

732
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:04.559
be out science out tied, but
it can be out and it can be

733
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:09.639
overthought. Yeah, and and well
you know words can mean more than the

734
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:14.960
science. Yeah. Well, we
got to hear a little bit about what

735
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:19.079
happened to each of the kids,
and they really were kids. They were

736
00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:24.760
teenagers that were involved in this story. Um, we know that the sister

737
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:29.800
who wasn't interrogated in this story,
her name is Andrea, which, by

738
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.159
the way, Andrea and Deirdre.
This goes along with my name and your

739
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.159
kids all with the same first letter. You know how many times I had

740
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:40.880
to go back and listen to this
fucking part of the episode and this name

741
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:45.440
sound exactly the same. Sorry a
little rant there. Just changed to everybody's

742
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:47.199
name so it's easier for the murder
shows in case something goes down. Yeah,

743
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:52.440
So Andrea was held for a week
and then the charges were dropped.

744
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.800
That's probably the best case scenario of
everybody. I think, is there a

745
00:53:54.880 --> 00:54:00.159
lawsuit available for that? In fact, there is, and that isn't the

746
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.159
updates. And I have the son
of a bitch, I digest what is

747
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:05.519
that? I'm gonna jomp I had
we gonna drop I had your Jemmy had

748
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:07.159
three sentences. So let me do
these three sentences. First, let me

749
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:13.679
shot it back Harley, which is
the the kid who was prone to violence.

750
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.639
Charges were never brought up to him, which is again, if if

751
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:22.719
we're gonna say that anybody, it
was probably that kids. It's probably the

752
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:25.360
guy that was named after a biker
gang. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

753
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:31.000
Deerdre who was the one who was
interrogated and then falsely confessed to a crime

754
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:35.320
she did not commit. She was
in prison for four months before the charges

755
00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:38.440
were dropped. And then our boy
William Hurt, he was in prison for

756
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:43.960
eight months and then once it went
to trial, he was found not guilty

757
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.280
on every single account, which is
just so embarrassing for your police department.

758
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:50.880
But here's my update, because at
the end of the episode, we learned

759
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:57.039
that the Hurt family is filing a
civil suit against the police. So here's

760
00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:01.239
the deal. In August of twenty
twenty, twenty twenty one, the Hurt

761
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:13.320
family settled that wrongful imprisonment lawsuit.
So the Hunt family maintained that the brother

762
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:16.800
was a paranoid schizophrenic he had threatened
to jump off the bridge near where the

763
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:23.480
body was found. The Court of
Appeals allowed the suit to proceed after determining

764
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:30.159
that the qualified immunity was not appropriate, and then the US Supreme Court refused

765
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:37.679
to review that ruling, and then
basically the civil lawsuit got pushed back from

766
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:43.920
twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one.
But ultimately the parties settled the suit before

767
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:49.320
I could get there, so it
is considered a significant victory for civil rights.

768
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:53.559
And the details on the settlement were
not shared, so it's kind of

769
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:58.840
impossible to know exactly what happened.
But again, if we're talking about a

770
00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:02.760
settlement here, my assumption is a
lot of money to the Hurt family,

771
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:08.840
and those officers responsible I'm assuming lost
their jobs, but that's me inferring a

772
00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:14.119
little bit. I'm no, at
least they were due to demoded they have

773
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:16.599
been. I mean, this is
a huge and also something that we should

774
00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:21.320
brought up with other police departments and
shown in training of the things that you

775
00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:23.480
don't do. Yeah. Well that's
kind of an interesting question too, is

776
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:30.880
do you think that the like the
read technique will just kind of remain or

777
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:35.840
do you think eventually we're going to
kind of learn other ways to interrogate people

778
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.559
that might not lead to I think
we're trying to lean against it, even

779
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:45.480
in when we're doing military like when
you know, when we're taking combatants of

780
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:49.360
the United States and we're trying to
get information out of them by getting rid

781
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:52.400
of we're trying to get rid of
the way we get the information out of

782
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:58.280
them, to make it different because
they realized you don't get the truth and

783
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.840
you don't get what you need by
you know, beating somebody there. If

784
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:05.760
they don't have it, they'll give
it, give you something just to get

785
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:08.079
you to stop beating them. Yeah. So I think it's it's going to

786
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.960
take a long time, but you
know, you know how people are.

787
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:14.960
We fought seatbelts, we fought smoking
indoors. You know, I mean,

788
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:17.880
we're we're a fucking mess. So
yeah, we don't we don't do it.

789
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:21.719
It's like, oh, yeah,
that is you're right, Yeah,

790
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:23.119
we shouldn't do that. Now we're
like, noah, when we should try

791
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:27.000
it out a couple more times,
We're not really sure. Yeah, so

792
00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.360
yeah, I would like to think
that there will be another type of interrogation

793
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:36.079
tactic. Yeah, I just agree
with the other before next time, before

794
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:39.519
next time I go to jail.
Yeah, I just it is the fact

795
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:44.119
that you can. It says in
the episode that it's very hard to tell

796
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:49.880
the difference between a coerced confession and
an actual confession. That to me is

797
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:53.599
kind of freaky. Yeah, it
certainly seemed to me listening to that audio

798
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:58.519
that that seemed like a coerced confession. But maybe that's just because that's it's

799
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:00.719
being broken down line by line and
Mike is sort of explain to us why

800
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:05.639
this is right or wrong. So
it's pretty clear. But it's weird to

801
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:08.039
me that you could sit a jury
down and show them two confessions and one

802
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:10.719
of them's real ones not and they
wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

803
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.800
So I don't know what that means, but they're I don't know, I

804
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:21.880
mean, and the like lie detectors. That was seemed like an interesting advancement

805
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:24.480
in technology to have a thing that
could actually tell you if someone was lying

806
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:27.800
or not. But we've all learned
that that's a bunch of bullshit too,

807
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:31.760
right, So I don't know what
the solution is. Sodium pentethal? Wow,

808
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:36.159
drug people up right, Yeah,
that's True's give them the happy drugs.

809
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:42.239
Yeah, daddy on, now we're
talking. We've got to amp up

810
00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:47.599
the electronic music. Give them some
molly and just what they say. Yeah,

811
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:52.440
what a great idea. And I
do I the way Mike said it

812
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.199
may not be the way that people
wanted to hear it, but you should

813
00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:00.719
definitely know your rights and be smart. Yeah, and I hope that this

814
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:08.880
episode taught people something taught me.
I definitely think about my own scenarios,

815
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:14.159
like my own panic scenarios, a
little differently. You know, I think

816
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.199
I would act a little bit differently. Yeah, you know, we none

817
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.960
of us want to ever be and
be in that situation. But if we're

818
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.079
ever in that situation, which you
know, could happen, you never know,

819
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:28.559
you know, knock on wood that
it never does. But you should

820
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:31.880
know, Hey, some people aren't
out there for your best interest. They're

821
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:37.360
out there trying to solve a crime, and yeah, and get done here

822
00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:39.159
if you really had something to do
it, you mean nothing to them.

823
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:44.920
Yeah, well they say don't talk
to cops, but they do say talk

824
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:47.800
to podcasters. That right, they
do, and we encourage you to reach

825
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.320
out to us again. I'm on
the Twitter at Matt fonde Leer. Ian's

826
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:55.400
on Twitter at sir Ian Bag Syrian
Bag. I'm also on the TikTok.

827
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.880
Are you on the TikTok? I'm
not. I'm putting my comedies on the

828
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:00.760
tiko. People have been watching me. What's your handle? How do we

829
01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:07.079
follow Ian Bag comedian great on the
TikTok? And yeah, and they send

830
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:10.719
me all sorts of things to look
at as either a girl dancing or it's

831
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:15.039
very interesting the TikTok. But it's
fun. So Ian Bag on there.

832
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:16.360
You should get a TikTok, which, yeah, all right. Maybe I

833
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:21.079
think I've put some sword and scale
stuff up there. Oh cool, So

834
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:23.880
I think there is a sword and
scale or somebody else is doing one.

835
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.880
It's not yeah, something's going on
with sword scale on there. Um,

836
01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:31.760
but yeah, yeah, it's good. Cool. Well, subscribe to our

837
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:36.079
podcast if you're not already Sword and
Scale rewind. We also have other shows

838
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:37.480
that we do. I do a
show called The Water Cooler, which is

839
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.360
a lot of fun. I have
a food segment called Chef on Delay,

840
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:45.320
which I've been working on for decades. Did you do anything for Did you

841
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:47.320
do anything for Thanksgiving? For your
food? Oh? Yeah, talked about

842
01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:51.360
the incredible spread that my family had, Not that my mom cooked, because

843
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:53.119
she don't cook. But we went
to a nice restaurant. That was good.

844
01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:55.880
That's good. Ian. You have
another show as well that you do.

845
01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:59.480
Hold on, I'm gonna talk.
This is a Christmas Yeah, this

846
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:07.400
is least in January. Did you
do anything for New Year's Yes? I

847
01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:13.159
did. I had a magnificent spread. Sorry, people, I'm a little

848
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:15.159
dumb. I would have I would
have I would have admitted him the crime

849
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:21.320
way earlier than that kid. Well
again, thank you guys for listening.

850
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:25.360
Please tell a friend and tell your
friends as well. Telephone, tell a

851
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:29.239
friend. Yeah, and tell your
friends this. Don't be a douchebag.

852
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:45.800
Yeah you tell them that. Yeah
yeah, Mashy sort of Scale Reward is

853
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:47.960
a production of incongruity media. If
you enjoyed the show, leave us a

854
01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:53.000
five star rating, had a glowing
review no criticism please it hurts our feelings.

855
01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:57.039
Be sure to tell your friends about
us, but not your family or

856
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:00.880
co workers because they'll think you're weird. Okay, that's it until next time,

857
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:02.039
don't be a douchebag.