Hello, and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your host Samantha Faye, and
I'm Gab Bowen, and today we're going to be discussing an ancient belief that
almost every religion and culture believed in at one point. It's called the binary
soul doctrine. Now, Lifetime listeners know me and know that I have kind
of a strange choice in my pleasure reading selections, and so I've been reading
this book by Peter Novak called The Last Secret of Death, Our Divided Souls
in the Afterlife, and it's kind of been blowing my mind. So I
called deb and we talked about it, and we thought it would make a
pretty interesting discussion for today's show. Do you still agree, tob after looking
at my notes? Interesting is the minimum word I would choose, getting ready
to do a yes, Absolutely, I agree. Okay, Well, let's
start with the basics. What is the binary soul doctrine. Well, thousands
of years ago, people believe that we had two souls, two parts of
us inside of us, existing and cohabitating inside of our bodies. It's similar
to our left brain, right brain, and unconscious conscious self. Basically,
the binary soul doctrine looks like this, we have two very different aspects of
us trying to live peacefully together. Upon death, one part of our soul
would either ascend to the heavens or reincarnate, while the other would be trapped
in another world. Most historians agree that this belief predates all civilizations. So
what does it mean, why was it hidden or removed from religious text and
teachings, and what can it tell us about our soul growth and purpose today?
So first, let's dive into how all the different cultures around world looked
at this concept of a binary soul. The Greeks called these two souls the
psyche and the Thumos. Egyptians called them the ba and the car Israelites referred
to them as the ru Wok and Nephish. In India they called the two
parts of the soul the Atman and the Jiva. The Chinese referred to the
hunt and poe Haitians called the souls gru Bonange and t Bonange. Hawaiian style
that the soul was comprised of the huana and the Una hippoly. The Dakotas
had the nagi and the niya wait is it the Dakotas of the lakotas well.
You know, I'm not quite sure where where you got your information with
this book you've read. There is a nuance of differences between the languages of
the Duck code of people and the luck Coode of people, and so it's
an interesting difference. But let's go with where you are right now, and
at some point later I'll come back and talk about that. How about that?
Okay. All these cultures described the two parts, or the two souls,
as having different qualities. One is analytical and objective, while the other
is inspired and creative. So again, it's very much like the right brain,
left brain, or the unconscious and conscious. The Egyptians said that the
universe began when twins emerged from the womb of space. They called Egypt two
lands and referred to the world as dual realities. They said the Egyptian gods
lived in the Lake of double Fire, and after death, judgment took place
in the Hall of double Truth. Upon death, it was hoped that the
Ba and Ka could unite to create the unified Aku. This third soul only
exists if the Ba and Ka can unite, so it's not actually a third
soul or a third aspect of us, but rather the promise of eternal life
and true happiness if we can unite these different aspects of ourselves. So let
me pause there for a second. Deb Are you with me so far?
I'm trying, Samantha, I really am. Yeah. When we were talking
about doing this, it sounded like a great idea, and then Samantha did
all this research and put this together, and my eyes glazed over. And
I think part of it is because, yes, of course, much of
the language that she's using here is very new to me. I've never heard
of some of this terminology. And then we get into bos and cause and
our cous and that's just difficult for me. However, I think, and
you tell me if I'm on the right track here in conceptualizing this, Samantha,
it's the idea that we have this internal duality conceptualized here is two souls
or right brain, left brain, or conscious and unconscious mind, and that
the goal in most of these cultures is to in some way integrate and bring
together that duality into one spiritual entity. Am I correct with you there?
Yes? And that that really is our purpose here on earth, is to
unite them while we're here and if you think about it, doesn't it make
a lot of sense? Because how often do you feel as though there are
this what's the famous story of the two wolves that the grandfather tells to his
grandson and they're battling it out. He says that each of us has two
wolves living in our soul. I mean, you just see this this concept
again and again and again. Now. Peter Novak, in his book The
Division of Consciousness, explains that the ba is our conscious self and the CoA
is our unconscious self. He says, like the unconscious, the CoA was
thought to be able to work in secret without its owner's knowledge, even able
to deceive or betray its owner. Like the unconscious, the cow could either
work for or against its owner. The Ba is always with us and for
us, but the cow it's a free agent. Egyptians also believe that the
leaves us each night when we sleep, to travel on its own, which
kind of supports my whole belief and soul travel right right, Think about there.
The story of Osiris. Osiris was divided into pieces when he died,
but when those pieces were brought together and restored, he lived again as a
divine and eternal being. Now what happens if this union doesn't take place?
Well, Novac tells us that if the BA and Cod did not reunite,
then the ball was thought to flit away freely and without concern, to heaven,
where it would still enjoy unlimited freedom and happiness, doing and going where
it pleased, and conversing with other Babs in heaven. Meanwhile, the ghostly
appearing co would remain behind, trapped in a feeble minded, cold, hungry,
needy, and vulnerable state in the tomb. The call was thought to
have many regular and pressing requirements after death, but without the animating mobility it
received from the intelligent BA, its needs went unmet and it would eventually disintegrate.
Now that blew my mind death, because I thought, what if this
is why we don't see reports of ghosts from like the eighth century, Like
you never see Oh you know, I was in Amsterdam and I saw an
eighth century Viking walking down the street, or spirits from the Black Death of
the fourteenth century wandering around the Tower of London. Did their cough finally disintegrate?
I mean, could this explain ghost It could? I mean, you're
absolutely right, I mean I don't remember the last time I met a ghost
from the sixth century, right, you know what I mean? And maybe
this is why people who have encountered ghost Haven't you ever noticed? Ghosts don't
seem to have a whole lot of personality, or a whole lot of common
sense, or any really valuable information to impart. They're either doing the same
thing over and over, like walking up the stairs, or they're just kind
of hanging around in a basement like a zombie. Maybe it's because it's there
their inactive, feeble part of their soul that has remained here. Okay,
I need to ask a question here while we're in Egypt, because I know
you're getting ready here in a minute to move to other theories in other countries
while we're in Egypt. It am I not correct? In that lovely symbol
and metaphor of what happens when we die in Egyptian mythology is that our heart
needs to be as light as a feather. Yes, and we weighed on
those scales right as we into the afterlife. Did he mention any of that
in his writing and how that plays into this theory? Yes? And I
think it's about that light as a feather happens when you're able to integrate these
two aspects of yourself into one, then you are truly light as a feather
because you're not weighed down by the conscious and you're not ruled by the unconscious.
And does that happen just at death or does it happen later? How
does That's a little fuzzy to be honest, Maybe you stated it and it
went over my head. But from what I read and interpreted, it seems
like it's the goal of our soul to do that here on earth, but
that very few of us can or have done it. But upon death there's
this. Now this is interesting too. There is a three day period where
these two aspects of our soul are together three days after we die, and
then they separate. And how many people have read and channeled and talked about
all we had Mariamnkowski on She says that too. I've heard that in so
many readings I've done, that you've three days before you have to go into
the light. How many times have we talked about that on the show,
well, a zillion times. And if you just look at the basic tradition
of funeralizing, at least in this country, for the most part, except
in the Jewish faith. I believe there's that three day period. You know,
we're in Christianity, particularly where where there's a weight between the death and
the time of burial. M Here we have this being repeated from thousands of
years ago. I just find that fascinating too. Dao is taught that the
soul is comprised of the yin and yang. At birth, these two parts
come together and work as a whole until death. The yang soul is active,
aware, masculine, driven, and dominant. The yin part is impressionable,
sensitive, feminine, informed by the person's environment. At death, the
yang soul returns to heaven, while the yin soul is imprisoned in a sad
afterworld. The yang soul can stay in heaven or reincarnate the inc Wait wait
wait, wait wait wait, I'm sorry, I gotta wait, I gotta
process this. Dallas Um says that the feminine aspect of us doesn't get together
to heaven. It's imprisoned. Apparently so, according to Novak's research, that's
what ancient dio is believed. Okay, all right, let's leave in his
research then, Okay, moving on. I'm sorry. The incas also believed
in this duality. Even their main god, Vera Chocha, was depicted as
an androgynous being symbolized as a two headed serpent. They believed in a hann
soul which was masculine, evolved and intelligent, and a her and soul,
which was feminine, inferior and subjective. After death, the han and soul
as sends to heaven while the hero and soul remains with the body. They
believed it was our purpose, the goal of our soul, to integrate these
two sides while on earth. So again we have this feminine masculine aspect being
repeated again and again in different cultures. Now, going back to the Egyptians,
they said that the cod needed to be fed by the Ba without the
Ba, which remember is in heaven. After death, the ka eventually dies
and they called this the second death. The Daoist also said this would happen
with the yin soul, and even the Toltecs taught that the her and soul
would also disintegrate after death. Now, the Greek said, we had a
psyche and thumos. The thumos is our emotions, feelings, urges, needs
and wants. The psyche is our spark of life. It is free and
immortal. If it leaves the body we die. After death, the psyche
goes on, while the thumos descends to Haiti. The vitas of the Hindus
taught that we are that we have an asosoul and a man and a mana's
soul. The mannas is our feeling, subjective emotional side. That asosoul can
reincarnate after death. Today, some modern Hindus teach about the atman and the
juva. The juva disintegrates after death. The atman, often called the inner
witness, is the eternal part. All of these religions teach that both parts
need each other. The eternal part needs the earthly part to give it form,
definition and boundaries so that we'll know where we begin and end. The
earthly or mortal part needs the eternal part for life energy intelligence. Okay,
I need a question here, so am I interpreting this correctly? That what
you've just said is that while we are here on earth, we need these
two parts of ourselves. Yes, and in a hope that they integrate.
But after we die, part of it just goes away and we're done,
yes, Okay, And then the divine spark inside of us. The psyche,
according to the Greeks, for example, goes on and can go up
to heaven or reincarnate. Okay, I think I'm with you now. The
Cahunas in Hawaii taught that the huang was smart, masculine and had free will,
but the unipoli was described as sensitive and the container of our memories.
When or if these souls unite is called amakua. So I just again,
I have to keep saying this. How many cultures have I mentioned now,
how many religions and they're all teaching the same thing thousands of years ago.
I'm not saying they're teaching that today. I'm not saying that. I'm talking
ancient, ancient times. And it's fascinating and I think, I mean,
we've talked so much on this show over the years about common ground among beliefs,
and you have certainly hit on a common ground belief process with so many
ancient cultures that I've never heard of. So this is fascinating. Okay,
Well wait, ready for this theory Novak presents in his book The Law Secret
of Death. He compares this to ghost and poultergeist. So he says,
just as the car or thumos or yenzol was said to be passive and mirrors
of the world around us. Ghosts are often seen doing mundane, repetitive tasks,
while Poultergeist, which he compares to the active masculine part of us,
are often depicted moving or throwing objects, but are never seen. So what
if the Ba, for example, which has free will and can move and
do things. And think, what if that becomes the poultergeist if it refuses
to go up to heaven or to reincarnate, and the car becomes the passive,
mundane ghost. Isn't that interesting? I know something to think about now.
Zoroastrianism, they believed in a main god, Mazda, who was said
to have created two separate and equal spirits to rule the world, spent a
Minu and Angramnu. They also believe that we were created with twin souls,
the Urvin and the Dana. The Irvin is our eternal, immortal part and
has the free will to make decisions and choices. The Dana is our image
and is developed or molded over time by our childhood environment, our words,
actions, and our choices. It also houses our memories after death. The
Irvin roams for three days, then it meets the Dana, who judges the
Urvan and decides if it crosses the bridge of the Separator, which leads to
heaven. So both halves would have to reconcile or unite before heaven can be
achieved in this belief system. I like that, Yeah, I do too.
I just don't like this idea of a part of us just poof,
like I had this image of it just kind of I don't know, disintegrating
or blowing away in the wind. In some way, I like this one
better. Well, I mean, I don't think any of us really,
I mean, who can sit for a long time and really contemplate our own
mortality? It is weird, isn't it realidious, Yeah, that's probably where
a part of that resistance I'm sensing in you is coming from. It is
difficult. In ancient Judaism, they taught about the soul, the Nephesh,
and the spirit the Rua. They said, the soul is active, conscious
and able to use language. The spirit holds our idea of self, our
personal identity. It houses our emotions, desires, passions, and memories.
The soul is eternal and immortal, if these two come together, they're in
harmony. We have nishama, which when translated means soul and spirit. However,
the Kabbalah says there are five parts to us, so it does get
confusing the words you've used. One of the words you've used in talking about
Judaism is rua, and that's very closely related to another Hebrew word. It's
ruash, and it means wind, it means soul, it means spirit,
and it is also a feminine word, and it is used many times in
the Bible, both in the Old Testament, in the Jewish books, as
well as in the New Testament more of the more Christian books to describe the
coming of some kind of spiritual energy that is feminine. And that word is
often connected with the word shaniki, which is one of the names of the
divine, feminine and Judaism. And so when you talk about that, I
got off on a whole other wheel of thinking about what this language might be
today, as so many folks are investigating and being connected to that notion of
rush, which is such a powerful word. I love it. It is
a powerful word, and it is intriguing and really illuminating to look at the
way definitions of words changed throughout time and translations. Isn't it Well, it
really is. If for example, recently, we just went through Pentecost,
which commemorates fifty days after Jesus's resurrection, and in the Christian tradition today,
that day was such a powerful day, the day of Pentecost, where the
followers gathered and they were frightened, and they were confused, and they were
scared, and they were hopeful. They had all this emotion, and because
Jesus had promised to hope, and hope came on a rush of wind ruash
in the form of what we now today call the Holy Spirit in the Christian
tradition. Very fascinating. Let's try to make sense of this for today,
rights for like, what does this mean for us today? Good Novak continuously
compares us to our modern teachings unconscious and the unconscious. He writes, scientists
have taught us that the conscious and unconscious our exact opposites. In many respects.
The conscious is active, while the unconscious is reactive and responsive. The
conscious seems to exercise autonomous free will, functioning under its own initiative and volition,
while the unconscious functions automatically and instinctively. The conscious is objective while the
unconscious is subjective, And the conscious is intellectual while the unconscious is emotional.
So can you see how our modern viewings and teachings and scientific understanding of our
conscious and subconscious mind directly correlates to these ancient teachings of two souls? I
can? I do? You're right? Okay? And then this quote is
from his other book, The Division of Consciousness. He writes, the conscious
and unconscious are so tightly intertwined in this dance that they give the compelling illusion
of existing and functioning as a single unit. Just as one's left and right
eyes produce two separate and distinct visual fields that are united and integrated in one's
mental experience into a single vision, so too, the two halves of the
psyche are so intimately integrated together and one's mental experience that they too seem to
be a single unit, a single experience, a single self. This illusion
of singularity is so persuasive that it has taken our most sophisticated scientific research and
analysis to penetrate. Each eye by itself only produces a two dimensional image,
but when integrated, they produce a new thing that never existed before, or
a three dimensional image. In much the same way, each of the two
spheres of human consciousness are alone greatly limited and inadequate, but when they are
integrated, they produce the fullness of human consciousness, a self aware individual.
I just loved that quote dead because I never really thought of it that way.
And I love a metaphor, and the metaphor of our left eye and
our right eye, and how alone they only see a two dimensional image,
but together it's a three dimensional image. That really made me go, Aha,
that is a nice metaphor. You're absolutely right. And again, I
love this idea of integration, whether we call it the Egyptian bay and Go
or from other cultures, or whether we call it, as Young would say,
the collective, the unconscious and the conscious mind. I love that idea
of integration and the ability to both think and feel, in other words,
to bring balance into our lives. I love that. Yeah, I do
too. And there's a lot of hope in these ancient and new teachings,
right because when he's describing these two aspects of ourselves, you can see the
positive and negatives of each, right. But then you think, well,
how can you bring those two into union? I mean, it just seems
kind of insurmountable, right, But then I think about new habits I've formed,
or old habits I've dropped, or old ways of thinking I've been able
to break, or new ways of more healthy, positive thinking I've been able
to create. Was only able to do that by working with my conscious and
my unconscious. Right, Like, I woke up this morning and I put
on my gym clothes, and I looked at myself and I was like,
girl, you're not going to the gym this morning. You got to talk
to deb I had made it a habit these last few years of that's what
I do most mornings, And so my subconscious kind of took over in that
moment. Now old me like back when my kids were little. Oh my
gosh, I had to like fight myself to get to the gym. Right.
It was like not something I ever ever wanted to do. But slowly
over the years, I've reprogrammed my unconscious and conscious too. Nope, this
is a part of our day now. And so this teaching gives And that's
a very surfacy, superficial example, but it's just one that pops into my
head today because I'm still in my gym clothes, because I will go.
But do you know what I'm saying, Like, we can we can work
with these two halves of ourselves, and we can, especially with awareness and
focus and concentration and true honesty. I do think we can bring them into
union for the important things in our life. Oh. I believe we can
too. I believe, in fact, it's crucial that we do. I
do too. I think it's the only thing that matters. Right well,
I don't know about the only thing that matters. It's not the only thing
that matters, but it's such an important thing to really have that active awareness
of who you are, what you're doing, why you're doing it. Otherwise
the subconscious will rule you, or your conscious will tamp down the subconscious who's
trying so hard to have its own voice heard too. This is why balance
is key to everything. All right, I want to talk about what the
Christians have to say about all of this, but let's take a quick break
and tell people what we've got coming up and give everybody's brain a chance to
rest. Deb Do you want to tell people what you have coming up?
I certainly do, Samantha, I am so excited. I am offering my
Unlocking the Mysteries of t Rowe course in June, beginning on Tuesday, June
thirteenth, and that course runs for three consecutive Tuesdays. There's an afternoon section
and an evening section, and it's taught on zoom, so you can join
from anywhere in the world. So if you are at a point in your
metaphysical journey where you are ready to explore the wonderful mysteries of Row, this
course is for you, and I so hope you'll join me, either in
the afternoon or the evening. Deadline for registration is Friday, June ninth,
at six pm Eastern time, and you can see that in so much more
details about what you're going to learn on my website, deboen dot com,
and I hope folks will subscribe to my free monthly newsletter that'll be coming out
in the next couple of weeks as well. Wonderful I've got my beer on
psychic class coming up. You can go to Samantha Fay dot com and click
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funky the last few months, so we really appreciate you doing that. It
helps more people to find us. Okay, are you ready to dive back
into this challenging discussion? Are you enjoying this deb I'm learning, Samantha,
and I'm always happy to be learning. Okay. All right, So,
until around the fourth century, Christians also apparently believed in a binary soul doctrine.
Doctrine. Take for example, this quote from Hebrews chapter four, verse
twelve. The Word of God is living, an active and more powerful than
any two edged sword, and cuts so deeply it divides the soul from the
spirit. But by the Fourth Ecumenical Counsel this was considered blasphemous, and from
then on soul and spirit were used synonymously. Now. Novak also mentions evidence
of an early belief in the binary soul doctrine from the Gnostic Gospels, which,
as you all know, are only discovered in nineteen forty eight. He
writes three lost Christian Gospels the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Truth,
and the Gospel of Philip return again and again to the issue of division,
mysteriously insisting that Jesus somehow divided into two halves when he died on the cross,
that all people were in danger of such a division, that the division
of the soul and spirit, or of Adam and Eve, was the origin
of death, and that making the two one was key to achieving eternal life.
Okay, we got to pause to your depth, because that also blew
my mind. I never thought about the story of Adam and Eve as a
metaphor for this binary soul doctrine. I don't think of it in that sense
that we're talking about today. But when I teach to Row and we get
to the Lover's key in to Row, and when we look at these two
figures who metaphorically certainly appear to be Adam and Eve, I spend a lot
of time talking about on the symbolism of that key, that yes, they
may be in fact two individuals, but they also may be two very different
aspects of the same individual. And I often, of course, we like
that to Young's animal and animous theory, or the notion of the conscious and
unconscious mind. So I've thought about it in those terms of Adam and Eve
becoming symbolic of parts of oneself. So yes, I thought of it in
that way. If you look at it in light of this binary soul doctrine,
Adam and Eve did have eternal life in that story, correct, until
they ate from the tree of knowledge? Yeah, because they were one.
I mean, that's another way to look at it. Is rather than thinking
of a man and a woman, which is kind of how the story is,
and we see the story, but instead if you can look at that
as aspects of the same entity, the same energy, then that what eternal.
What I don't know in what you've just read is I'm going to go
back to your quote here from Novak. Three lost Christian gospels, the Gospel
of Thomas, the Gospel of Truth, and the Gospel of Philip, return
again and again and again to the issue of division. I've read the Gospel
of Thomas. I have not read the Gospel of Truth or the Gospel of
Philip, and I don't remember that. But that's this is going to send
me back down that rabbit hole. I haven't read all of those three gospels.
I've read parts. I've read a lot of Elaine Pagel's work, and
so I've read parts of it that was new to me as well. So
more homework for us, right, right, But it just made me think
about this idea because you do see that in mythology. You see it in
a lot of ancient religious stories, this idea that we were eternal and then
something happened and we lost it and death was introduced. Right, That's always
made my head spin, like why why would you take that away from us?
I don't understand. Maybe this is one way that cultures explained it,
or maybe I don't know, Maybe there's some truth to it. I mean,
even was it Socrates who wrote about our split of parts? I think
so. And if you look at the founding of Rome, they have the
twin soul theory there, remember the twin brothers, remember, yeah? Or
if you look at the ancient Sumerian tablets, we have the two brothers who
created us? Yeah, what was it? And Lylan yet Enki can never
remember that? But yes, now. Peter Novak, as I said,
compares this binary soul doctrine to not only ghost and poultergeist, but also to
near death experiences. He writes the two stages of near death experiences, one
being a detached, objective and dispassionate black void, followed by a subjective relationship
oriented and emotionally intense realm of light reflects the distinctions between the conscious mind and
the unconscious mind. The darkness stage seems to be experienced exclusively through the conscious
half of the psyche, while the light stage seems to be experienced exclusively through
the unconscious, as if the two were operating independently during these episodes. This
made me think right away of doctor Eben Alexander's near death experience that he writes
about in Proof of Heaven. If you remember, he first sees himself in
this dark soil, and I gotta be honest. When I first read that,
I was like, well, this is creepy. And then I read
there's a book on people who had darker near death experiences, and many of
them talk about this first stage where they're in this dark hole. A lot
of NDE writers will kind of leave that out sometimes because it does scare people
and it makes us think of, you know, our images of hell and
whatnot. If you read Eban Alexander's book, he writes how it felt like
he was in the soil in the ground, and I believe he compares it
almost to like a butterfly, where he had to come out of this cocoon.
But it's been a while since I read it. And then he goes
into the light and then he has that relationship oriented, emotionally intense realm of
light experience that Novac writes about. So what do you think about that?
It makes me not be able to breathe, well, the thought of being
I mean, you know, we come from a town where somebody was buried
alive at some point, and our ghost legends where we live. So that
has always just flipped me out, the thought of that. Okay, but
we in doctor Eben Alexandra's book he wasn't afraid during that experience at all.
He said it actually felt comforting. I know you said that. I agree.
I hear what you said. I'm just you asked me how I feel
about it, and I don't feel good about it. But here's why.
I also know that that that time, perhaps even though there may be time
outside of time, and in this conversation of rest of stillness, it's another
way of interpreting that notion of that darkness, and I keep going back to
and I know I've said this on this show before. One of my favorite
poems is by a Unitarian minister who is now dad, whose name was Rick
Maston, and he wrote a beautiful poem called let It Be a Dance.
And one of the lines in the poem is without the dark, that can
be no light. So let it be a dance we do. I love
that. I believe that that balance is important, and I wonder if that's
a part of what's happening here is at dark time and balance, to have
that balance of darkness and stillness before moving into the light. I just throw
that out there as an option. Yes, no, I think that's a
great way to look at it. So what can we take from all of
this? What if these two parts of us do actually separate upon death.
That would mean that the consciousness would have send to heaven and having free will,
would most likely agree to reincarnate, But without the unconscious it would have
lost all of its memories, emotions, and lessons. Could this explain why
our world so often feels broken? Is this why we can't remember our past
lives? Or why I were even here in this lifetime? And if so,
doesn't that feel kind of unfair? Nobody also makes a lot of sense
because you and I both know of some stories where people remember when they come
back to Earth after having been across the vale, they have some memories of
past lifetimes. Most folks don't. They don't remember where, what they did
in their last life, or what they did across on the other side.
And this theory might explain why that is. Yes, and if you look
at past life memories, most people who recall their past lives died dramatically and
came back quickly. And I wonder if these ancient cultures said three days,
because I don't know, maybe time was different, or their concept of this,
this esoteric idea was different. What if the BA and the car,
you know, the unconscious and the the subconscious and then conscious. What if
you die tragically and you reincarnate pretty quickly, the COD never has time to
get inactive. It kind of always stays with the BA. So when you
reincarnate really really quickly, that's why you remember your past lives because the COD
didn't have time to disintegrate. That makes sense in some way to me.
I mean, I need to process that, but I think that's a logical
conclusion. Do you need a drink? Should I pour you a Gin and
tonic? Okay, folks, For people who are listening this is we're recording
this early in the morning, and the answer to that question is now,
thank you for I'm totally kidding, but you just sound like you know your
head is reeling from all of this, which is how I have been the
whole time I've been reading this. I still have to think about it and
process it and figure it out, so it'll be interesting to hear what listeners
think. I can't wait to hear what our listeners say about this. But
I want to hope, and I know we're not quite done yet, but
but I really hope that what our listeners get from this, even if you're
like me and you need to listen to it several times and process it and
think about it and question it and all those pieces that I hope we do.
Even if that's where you are, how wonderful that that's where we are,
because I love the idea that there's always a new way to look at
something, to live with an open mind, to explore and look at concepts
that might be absolutely new to us, and just not not necessarily particularly embrace
them, but certainly to at least acknowledge them and honor them in some way.
And that's where I am with this material at this point, Samantha,
Yeah, I think I am too. I just love reading about new ideas
and just chewing on different ways of looking at things we've been taught, you
know, And I think it is so important to take new ideas and not
accept them or reject them right away at all, just sit with them.
You know. I went to a party last weekend and I met a flat
earther. Have you ever met one? What a person who believes the earth
is flat? Well? I think I probably know people. They just are
probably not going to say it in front of me. Oh well this person
did and I had a lovely discussion with him about it. And I didn't
judge him or you know, try to. I just wanted to hear.
I'm fascinated by people who believe different stuff. It really does it Just I
find it intriguing. I want to know why, why do you think that
way? How is it serving you? And so we had a lovely discussion.
Whereas if I had been like that, it's ridiculous. Have you that
would have gotten me nowhere. So I'm just saying, let's just entertain these
ideas and just you know, see what other thoughts they bring up in us?
Right right? Okay, So here's something else that this has made me
think about. If the unconscious part of ourselves feels, according to some of
this research Novak has done, as though it has descended into hell, would
that explain why we have these notions of heaven and hell? Because without the
conscious part to provide intelligence, reason and action, the unconscious would slowly descend
into dim witted thinking, followed by memories, self judgment, and isolation.
Now that sounds like hell to me, right. Without the conscious to act
for it, the unconscious part of us would feel cold, hungry, and
lost. Because remember, the unconscious can't take action, right, It can't
get up and feed itself. Novac rates. If the unconscious was cut off
from the conscious mind after death, it would review and re experience its memories
and feelings and self judgments over and over and over, which explains the automatic
sleepwalking behavior of haunting ghosts. The unconscious would just keep re experiencing the same
traumas from its past, in an endless nightmare of emotions and memories now.
Peter Novak in his books also raises other fascinating questions like check this out.
When the conscious mind goes on to reincarnate, does the unconscious part of us
stay behind in its own heaven or hell? If so, then where does
the new unconscious for the next lifetime come from? And does the apparent fact
that the discarded unconscious from one's previous life seems still to be functioning actively,
registering and processing experience have anything to do with the already psychoactive unconscious of infants.
Do people have untold numbers of long forgotten past life unconscious souls still actively
involved in their own heavenly or hellish experiences deep within their psyches? Their early
Christianostics seem to have thought so, and made it a prerequisite for salvation to
reawaken these past life selves from their slumbers. So one more question I want
to throw out here. One of the things that I've been taught for many
years is this notion of a higher self? Where does that come into this
picture? Yeah? I don't know me either, but something to think about.
Well, you know Gordon Smith, the wonderful medium from Scotland. He
says that really, we're kind of like DVD copies, right, you know
how you could or a copy of a photo. You know how you can
make hundreds of DVD copies or photo copies of an original photo. The original
part of our soul, our higher self, stays on the other side,
and then kind of like copies of us, you know, like pieces of
us are what reincarnate. What if we can make room for all of this?
Right? Like, what if our higher self is always on the other
side and then we just reincarnate with these two aspects of ourselves. I don't
know. I don't either, but it Isn't it fun to think about it?
It is? But it also makes me think about like you can have
your soul, right, like, your soul has its own personality, its
own interest, needs and wants, as I think we've outlined here. But
then I think about, well, what about DNA? What about inherited stuff?
Like how does that come into play with this? I don't have any
answer, Samantha. All you've done this in this episode is filled me with
questions. Isn't that what a teacher is supposed to do? We've done a
great job, Okay, I want to throw in two quotes that have really
stayed with me. One is from the Aponishads, and it says, what
is within us is also without, what is without is also within. He
who sees difference between what is within and what is without goes evermore from death
to death. So that's an ancient quote, and it's explaining how this goal
is to unite these two aspects of ourselves. Now here's another one from the
Gospel of Thomas. When you make the two one, and when you make
the inside like the outside, and the outside like the inside, and the
above like the below, then you will enter the kingdom. Well, that
clears everything up. I have so enjoyed this episode, and thank you so
very much for all of the work and research you did to put this together.
And I hope that our listeners have enjoyed it. We'll listen to it
more than once because I know I'm going to have to and certainly post their
questions. I think it's a great idea. I think you're ending the show
so you can go have that gin and tonic. That's not true. I'm
totally kidding again. Well, I hope that listeners will at least give this
some time and reflection look forward to hearing, feedback, audit. Thank you
guys so much as always for listening. Please remember to be the light for
yourself and others. Take care of everyone. Thank you for listening to Psychic
Teachers, your podcast for seekers, light workers, mystics, and magical thinkers.
If you like show, please tell a friend or leave us a review.
Wherever you listen to your podcast. For more information, check out our
Facebook page Psychic Teachers, or our websites Samantha Fay dot com and deb Bowen
dot com. I have a new book out called The Awake Dreamer Lucid Dreaming,
astial travel and mastering the Dreamscape. You can find it wherever books are
sold. Thanks for listening and have a great week.