WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:09.519 Hi, You're listening to a student focused episode of the Sociology Show podcast. 2 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:15.679 If you're studying the subject at gcs A level, foundation degree or any other 3 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.600 discipline, then this podcast could be of help to you. If you have 4 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.440 a question for the show, then you can email the Sociology Show podcasts the 5 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:28.120 Gmail dot com and one of the teachers, lecturers, examiners, or experts 6 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:32.240 will answer your question for you. You can sponsor the show on the go 7 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:37.679 fund me page and subscribe on all the usual podcast platforms. If you're going 8 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:41.759 to class, going to the gym, or just chilling, put your headphones 9 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:49.359 in and let's be Sociology gets together. Ah, Hello and welcome to the 10 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:54.039 Sociology Show podcast. This is a student takeover episode, and the takeover is 11 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:58.920 actually from my own students from Basfic College in Brighton Hove down on the south 12 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.640 coast of England. And three of my students were very interested in sexism in 13 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.760 video games and misogyny in video games. They're inspired by some research by Anita 14 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:12.200 Sarkeesian and they wanted to carry out their own research to see if they found 15 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:17.319 similar findings in terms of how much misogyny is out there. How sexist the 16 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:21.599 video games are and the types of language and interactions people use when they're playing 17 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:26.200 online video games in particular. So the three students conducted this research are Harper 18 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:30.000 Winsleor, Jessica Thornton, and Layla Miller Jones. I asked them to put 19 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.359 together a podcast. I was really impressed with the depth and knowledge here, 20 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.400 and also they had a little bit of humor in there as well, and 21 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:40.120 it's a really fantastic piece of research. So without further ado, let's go 22 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:45.599 over to listen to sexum in Video Games with Harper, Jessica and Layla Enjoy 23 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.680 Hello, Oh my god, Hey Hi. So I'm Halper, I'm Jeff 24 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:55.879 I am Layla, and our sociology presentation in the form of the podcast. 25 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.959 Yeah, we contemplated in a video, but I came freshman. You won't 26 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:07.280 find yourself. Don't mind yourself, Harper looking gorgeous, gorgeous. Stop. 27 00:02:07.960 --> 00:02:15.560 Yeah. So basically we are doing so using the secondary data from Sarkeesia. 28 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:20.439 Oh my god, I'm so sorry. We are doing we are looking at 29 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:25.479 the culture of online gaming and the portrayal of femininity and masculinity in the video 30 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:30.919 game world. And I basically use this to form our research question, which 31 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:36.560 is how our regressive misogynistic values presented in the gaming world. Yeah, yeah, 32 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.400 I guess the hypothesis were kind of the mesogynistic attitudes were still very present 33 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.719 in the gaming world as they have always been, and we're kind of I 34 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:50.919 guess not yeah, not even trying to prove it, but just exactly what 35 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.280 that is. Look at you go, halfer um. So me and Jess 36 00:02:55.280 --> 00:03:01.120 both looks at some articles and like videos that Sarcasian did and mine was about 37 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:06.759 tropes versus women in video games, and she pointed out which I thought was 38 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:09.879 actually like it sort of shows like it traces back to where the first like 39 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:17.599 signs of objectification of women. What was when the first video game appeared in 40 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:23.919 a pinball arcade and it's called computer Space was released in nineteen seventy one. 41 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:29.479 I believe I think that's what you said last. Yeah, the objective of 42 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.479 the game was very simple. It was a rocket that was shooting down pixelated 43 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:38.840 sources. We obviously nothing to do with women at this stage of video games. 44 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:45.719 However, they the company advertised their game with women stood next to like 45 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:53.840 the arcade machines wearing revealing clothes which obviously is it seems to be the first 46 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:59.439 way that women were especially things. It was the first online game, it 47 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:03.039 was already using women's sexually like being women being sexualized to advertise it, and 48 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.599 it was sort of unnecessary because it's got enough game. It just seemed to 49 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:13.199 obviously the aim was to capture the male gaze, particularly probably young teenage boys. 50 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:17.079 So I wonder if that kind of maybe influenced the idea that like online 51 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:23.199 gaming is more of a male space, and yeah, idea maybe, Yeah, 52 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:28.000 yeah, definitely that's and obviously this game being released what like over fifty 53 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.720 years going now, it's from right the scarbas the traditional values have just been 54 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.120 kept and carried through to Ja. Yeah, no exactly, So I guess 55 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:41.680 that's what like why we became interested was because you can obviously clearly tell that 56 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.839 this hasn't although it might have changed based on video games evolving, the like 57 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.000 principles are still the same that behind it. So yeah, and as well, 58 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:56.160 because this topic was influenced by our topic three of globalization of globalization, 59 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:00.360 Yeah, it's interesting to see what other aspects of globalization can also be seen, 60 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:05.800 like the misogynistic attitudes kind of in the dial Yeah, definitely, it's 61 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:09.800 quite like I mean, I wouldn't say it's subtle, but like until you 62 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:13.040 like sort of scrape underneath the stuff, you don't really notice how by its 63 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:17.000 I feel like it's quite overlooked sometimes. Yeah, um, soul get onto 64 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:21.800 what we did for you guys. Overviewed the research by Sarkeesian. Yeah, 65 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:28.879 okay, so I looked at basically more recent examples. Sarkeesian basically found that 66 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.920 the damsel in distress trope has sort of seen a resurgence in recent years. 67 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:40.240 So the tribe basically provides like an easy default motivation for male heroes, um 68 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:44.839 because it allows them to prove their masculinity, um and like. As a 69 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.160 result, the game developers have like exploited images of victimized women and use their 70 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:55.360 trauma sort of as like a catalyst for the game's plotline, with even like 71 00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:01.279 domestic violence sometimes being presented as like an altruistic app and it can be seen 72 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:06.439 in like modern games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. Oh yeah, 73 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.959 that was one of the ones that we did, so I think that 74 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.800 was I think it was even released in twenty thirteen or Maine in twenty thirteen, 75 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.040 but Basically, Sarkitian said that the objective of this game was to buy 76 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.680 a prostitute, use it, and then kill them to claim your money, 77 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:28.879 which I think is obviously highly Yeah, I mean I don't I don't particularly 78 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.560 understand it, but I mean whatever, that's like, that's what I do 79 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.600 on my Friday evening is half oh my bad, sorry on my lifestyle. 80 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:41.120 Yeah, sorry, it's yeah, it's the lifestyle. Definitely, so my 81 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:46.759 I didn't because the two girls half just obviously did their initial research on Sarkatian, 82 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.160 it was a secondary data. I did the unstructured interview, which was 83 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:56.959 primary, our main primary. Yeah, definitely research that we did semi structured. 84 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:02.040 We had like questions, yeah, semist action, which we enjoyed because 85 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:10.240 I barking, I mean, yeah, undecided, but it kind of it 86 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:15.560 allowed us to elaborate with the participants and get them to explain what we asked. 87 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.680 And also because a lot not a lot of us, I didn't have 88 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:26.959 the biggest understanding that, so it kind of left me went in. Yeah, 89 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.199 we went. I think the bit we were interested in was the gender 90 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.639 identity and that kind of misogynistic attitude. Yeah, the idea of the whole 91 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:39.879 gaming world. Really, I let the gamers and the people that we interviewed 92 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:43.680 dictate or like open my eyes to that. I guess. So our sample 93 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.399 was ten people. They were a volunteer sample because we needed people who were 94 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:53.199 actually interested in online gaming who could give us useful information. I guess that 95 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:57.519 makes it quite high. And they wanted to exactly, and it meant that 96 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.120 what they were saying was pretty truthful and it wasn't just like a bunch of 97 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.920 people who didn't know what they were talking about, but also ethical as well. 98 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:11.160 Yeah, yeah, yes, a ten questions, ten people and even 99 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:15.879 numbers. Yeah, exactly, I'll summarize a couple of points. Yes, 100 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:22.040 I guess I've put together or I've basically just kind of selected the two most 101 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:30.959 different interviews or the two most interesting interviews. So the first person we asked 102 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.399 the question, do you think that animality makes people feel more comfortable? And 103 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:41.799 to say team defensive? We can't say it was so ethical. Can we 104 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:43.279 say if it's a girl or a boy? Or yeah, I think yeah 105 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:48.480 it was a guy, Okay, And he said that playing on FIFA specifically, 106 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.120 there was a lot of toxic masculinity within the community, which you could 107 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:58.480 argue would scare away women. Although there has been like a new adaptation in 108 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.679 the FIFA world which is very nice where women and now added and you can 109 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.799 create a team of both women and men. I've actually got something. Oh 110 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:11.000 my god, do you remember me telling you I do remember this way I 111 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:13.799 finish this? Ye? I mean just this point. Yeah. Yeah. 112 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:20.080 So he said there was lots of masculinity expressed within FIFA, partly because of 113 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.919 how competitive it was, partly because it had like a nature of toxic masculinity. 114 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.000 But I feel like, if that's such a good example of there are 115 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.799 games which literally have toxic masculinity embedded into the culture. But I've I've never 116 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.159 met a girl who's like, oh yeah, I've an avid FIFA player. 117 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.080 Ye met guys, because it doesn't seem very like you know. So I 118 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.000 thought that was quite eye opening. But oh my god, just died. 119 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.559 Oh. What I was going to say was, so I was talking to 120 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.480 I'm quite a shamed to say that he's my friend down, but I was 121 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:56.279 talking to my good friend like good friends as well, I know, And 122 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.840 I was like, I'm doing I'm conducted. Well, I'm not really conducting, 123 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.840 but I was just wondering if I could ask some questions to do with 124 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:07.159 gaming, because he games a lot, like and he said that the presence 125 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.200 of like women in FIFA is pointless, and he said some other stuff as 126 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.080 well. I wish it was on Snapchat, so I should have saved the 127 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:18.720 messages. Actually that would have been by the smart money lies. But I'd 128 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.000 like to summarize what he said. And I'm not obviously quoting him, but 129 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.639 he said along the lines of, like, there's no print in having women 130 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.000 in video games because they're doing it on purpose to seem more inclusive, whereas 131 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:33.000 in actual fact they don't actually care. Sort of thing that directly links onto 132 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.039 what I was about to say. Well, perfect, Oh my god. 133 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.639 Yeah. So the fifth question I asked in this interview was why didn't there's 134 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.799 an absence of female players in the gaming world. And this guy, the 135 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.279 first, like the first of the two people that I selected out of the 136 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.879 ten, basically said the big gaming companies don't mark it towards female players because 137 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.759 there's already like a market in an audience within young male players. There's no 138 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.320 reason they would need to, and because like so much of advertising is kind 139 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.360 of towards the male games. Anyways, you think they feel under pressure to 140 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.519 I just I feel I don't feel any pressure to know that I feel. 141 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.360 He just basically saying they don't mark it towards too the players, because they've 142 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.440 got a large amount they don't need to pretty much. He also said that 143 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.279 along the lines of I asked a question which was do you think the video 144 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.960 against influenced perceptions of women in real life? And he basically said his friend 145 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.120 didn't really seem to have a separation of online online and in real life, 146 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.639 and so he would set leg women a lot because on so many of the 147 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:39.279 games there are hyper sexual as women avatars. So do you think that makes 148 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.200 to like the idea of anorminities? That thought? So, I guess because 149 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.919 some people will say stuff online and not saying person. Clearly, this person, 150 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:50.879 his friend can tell the difference. You know. It's like that exactly, 151 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:56.320 And it's kind of yet all linking back to like the sexual avatars and 152 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:05.440 everything like from the first Yeah, so Sarkisian, sorry because somebody died. 153 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.600 I just had it my head. There was that and now I can't break 154 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:15.080 out. But you're gonna have to the other like what was the other stuff? 155 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:20.519 So the second guy who I selected I always like stuff Stock. I 156 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.440 love him. I don't know actually quite who he is, but I just 157 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:28.639 think he's awesome. He has part of an online group who go to like 158 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.440 gaming tournaments and play amongst each other like a following, like formal sort of 159 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.240 thing. I think, so that's a professional like win money and stuff. 160 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:45.039 Can't you. I think you win something or maybe you just win and that 161 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:50.639 boosts your popularity. Don't quite know, but it's fine. But basically, 162 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.240 he was really interesting to talk to you because his perspective was from his small 163 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.960 community, so it kind of showed that they were like zones within the gaming 164 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:05.240 world. So he basically said that on his team it was just people who 165 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:11.320 he played against who were just decent at the game. And regarding animnity, 166 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.399 he said, you can say whatever you want in theory. Yeah, being 167 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.639 a white, straight dude, it's not the biggest deal to me personally. 168 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:22.559 It's like what they're going to threaten me with quoting him directly here. But 169 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.639 you know, with other demographics I've seen it, it could be tough. 170 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.159 People would just relentlessly gang up on people for the smallest things because then anything 171 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.440 they can get away with it. And I think that links onto for my 172 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:39.120 research exactly. It's the real risk of animality is that you don't really get 173 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.679 many consequences for what you say, unless it's quite bad that you can't like 174 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.120 sort of well, I mean you could track it down, but if you 175 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.399 were tracking every sort I mean cyber bully or nine, that there would be 176 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.000 no one left. Also with that quite true with the anonymous space, it 177 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.559 makes people then more comfortable to say things in real life as well because they've 178 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.519 had that experience I've already like saying and starting to move into that territory or 179 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.919 it's kind of like, what's it like an echo chamber where if you find 180 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.720 like minded people you think, oh, that might be trying. Like that 181 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:13.639 can translate to real life and narrows that well, not exactly, that's very 182 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.639 true because yeah, it's not good. That's the best time I could come 183 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:26.279 up say like monotonal as well, when I saw it's not good. It's 184 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:33.000 just not good. But yeah, what did the other personally expected? It? 185 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.279 Was it a girl that was Yeah, so I've selected three. Yeah, 186 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.320 there was a first guy who had the toxic masculinity friend. Second guy 187 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:46.200 was part of a team. Yeah, he also for my seventh question, 188 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.519 which was do you see positive aspects of gender identity? He said that the 189 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.279 fact that people weren't focalizing on gender was the positive aspect of gender identity. 190 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.279 There was a lot, like in his world, there was. It was 191 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.720 a lot of it was guild based, so it kind of took the whole 192 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.440 emphasis of gender off of it, which he thought was a really positive and 193 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.440 progressive thing, wasn't it. It was even Haaraway or Robertson that did that 194 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:18.320 in the in the globalization unit, they talked about Harraway, which I guess 195 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.759 is a positive you could take away. But then it's not like that a 196 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.080 load is going to you know, it doesn't change the fact that people are 197 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.720 still going to be like a sorry, a pip just came out of my 198 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:35.360 mouth. Sorry, later, what were you saying? It's like, oh, 199 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:41.799 you know what, I'm not for My trainer thought, like, you 200 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.919 know what, So let me just go right back to the beginning. Let's 201 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:52.440 cut to the chase head. So what I am trying to conclude is that 202 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.039 although a woman can hide behind or was he the screen and have like a 203 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.600 gender neutral name or like a name that doesn't suggest anything about her gender, 204 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.720 she still she might still hear stuff, so it shows that you know, 205 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.799 you could not partake in it and like not have to show that you're a 206 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:15.080 woman. But if if there's men on like playing and they're being you know, 207 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.799 misogynistic, then it's still happening. Basically the fact that they have to 208 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.399 hide it as well, it just goes exactly so that someone who have not 209 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.080 included their interview in My three Chosen one. She spoke about the fact that 210 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.679 on the online gaming world, if you do show agenda as a girl, 211 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:37.480 you're either like a tomboy girl doesn't really associate herself with femininity or an e 212 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.639 girl who's hyper feminine, and there's not really much in between going on. 213 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:47.840 You're one of the guys or you're a plane female gays Like how you benefit 214 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.440 men versus how it's like benefits. Yeah, okay, so like you know, 215 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.639 you've now got these two categories that you know you can't like transcend. 216 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.440 You're either one or the other. Yea, you can game, but if 217 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:02.360 you're a tomboy and one of the guys or a egirls, and either way 218 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:06.599 you're still going to face abuse for both of them exactly. Anyway, Yeah, 219 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:15.079 for my third for my third participant or I guess interviewee. They said 220 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.240 that, So I asked the question, do you think there's an answerence to 221 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.160 female players in the gaming world, And their answer to this was, I 222 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:26.279 think some games are more predominantly female, but for predominantly male games, they 223 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:29.720 don't want female players in them, so they try to rate them so the 224 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.720 plays so that they therefore create female zones and males. Was a really interesting 225 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.960 way of putting it, like people in each zone are not going to recognize 226 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.920 the opposite side, or maybe in the male zone, you're just going to 227 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:47.000 think, oh, no female plays this game because they are actively avoiding or 228 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.000 the really basic hosogronistic games. Also, they're in like a tights or circle 229 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.440 if if you're thinking about like regressive values and going back to traditional ways, 230 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.880 sort of the separate spheres for men and women. It's kind of like reminis 231 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.680 sint of like nineteen fifties, like oh my god, domestic sperience kind of 232 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:11.319 desire. Ye, look at you guys, Oh my gosh, right, 233 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.119 do you have what else? Like? Yeah? Point for the eighth question, 234 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.680 I asked, I think gee, I asked us to everyone and most 235 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.680 people said, So I said, what do you think the roles of men 236 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.400 and women are or should be in the online gaming world. Most people just 237 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.240 said equity. Everyone should just be equal. There shouldn't be a kind of 238 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:33.119 dislike there shouldn't just be this disportion exactly. That's what I'm looking for. 239 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.960 But my interview said everyone should get a chance play the game they want, 240 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.960 and the female players should get to enjoy a male space, whereas right now 241 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.480 she does not feel there was that kind of equality, which I thought was 242 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.880 really interesting, especially from a female's perspective, because the other people were kind 243 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:55.440 of like, yeah, equity and didn't really see like they didn't point out 244 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:00.880 as much misogynistic attitudes although they were occupying male spaces, whereas I feel if 245 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.359 you're not, it's more visible yea. And relating to the what was it 246 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:08.839 recessive or aggressive? So for my last question that I asked everyone, I 247 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.960 was how do you I asked, how do you think that the rise of 248 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.200 Andrew Tato has influenced attitudes? This is in the game, and so the 249 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:23.599 first person I asked said, because Tate is influencing younger people, and younger 250 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:30.359 people still play video games, it therefore makes the online world even more toxic 251 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.000 and could discourage women. The second person I asked actually said, Andrew Tat 252 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:41.200 is just ananimate, is just an anomaly, and he has an impact, 253 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.279 but any younger people who he didn't play with. So my second person he 254 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.680 was part of the online gaming team, Oh yeah, so he I don't 255 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.039 think UM spoke to or kind of came to contact with a lot of younger 256 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:59.200 players. So it proves that what side the online gaming world occupy us. 257 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.039 And my asked participant who was a girl I thought I put out? She 258 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:08.480 said that she felt that Tate had had had a big impact in real life 259 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:14.279 than the gaming world, and said, yeah, there have always been sogynistic 260 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.839 attitude, but she argued that like Tate's kind of being on the side of 261 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.799 social media of pointing out like that his actions were wrong. She basically said 262 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.000 that, ever, since because he's so extreme, people began calling out my 263 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:33.599 sogynist behavior, which she said, like, that's a real big positives. 264 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:40.359 You said, shall I go through my m what's called grovern? Now? 265 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:47.160 Yeah? I said that my generalizability was lower because we only interviewed a small 266 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:52.240 age range. However, the people that we interviewed had kind of played amongst 267 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.359 people of many different age ranges. So although we only had access to people 268 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:02.079 within the sixteen to eighteen age range, because they'd interacted with people from all 269 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:06.680 ages, you can kind of argue that their answers could be higher. In 270 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:14.960 generalizability, I'd argue our representativeness was low because our sample was volunteer. Yeah, 271 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.440 a volunteer sample. We wanted that they wanted to do it there before 272 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.400 we're going to be enthusiastic. Yes, exactly. We had a range of 273 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.279 gender identities, which I think, Yeah, it was higher. Reliability was 274 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:30.400 higher because we recorded that. I recorded all of the interviews so he could 275 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.200 replicate it, and I wrote down all of my questions. Objectivity I was 276 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:42.240 reflected throughout and transferred directly from the audio document onto my piece of paper. 277 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:47.720 I guess I'm referring back exactly what they said and didn't cherry pick. Validity 278 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.279 was high Bill Report, and I feel that what they told us was truthful. 279 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.720 Yeah, I think it was very insightful, especially since we didn't going 280 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:57.920 into this week. I think that also makes it quite high a objectivity because 281 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.920 we didn't know, like what what was actually going on, what was actually 282 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:06.799 happening, like our values couldn't really we didn't have like second exactly, yeah, 283 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.160 because we didn't have any we liked at during which I think, which 284 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.119 was so good. Yeah, I loved it. And our ethics were high. 285 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:18.839 No deception because I advertised who would like to be Interviet sociologies. Yeah, 286 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.000 we didn't. We didn't cause it a harm far as I'm aware. 287 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.960 No one has emailed me like saying that I'm suing you. So that's great, 288 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:33.200 and they we didn't. It wasn't an invasion of privacy because they signed 289 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.680 up for it. Yeah, so I reckon. I think that in terms 290 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:37.920 of ethics was probably what was very high. I think, so it was 291 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:42.039 validited. What would you which one would you want to improve after go over 292 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.039 terms? Do you know? I think if we would do it again, 293 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:49.119 the generalized ability and representativeness, it would be so interesting to interview a wider 294 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.079 range of people. Yeah, I think even for us our study in the 295 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.200 future, but also just for us, just for us, just for us 296 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:03.559 again for us. Okay, So after Lena did her like main primary research, 297 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.480 which is sort of like the body of our works, like what we 298 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.599 wanted to find out, and like I guess I did, like really go 299 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:17.680 in depth about the progressive misogynistic values. I decided to do some content analysis 300 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.039 on TikTok and jess, what did you do well, I sort of did. 301 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.599 I was originally going to do participant observation, but that plan kind of 302 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:33.519 fell through, so I did sort of an unstructured interview conversation conversational type thing. 303 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.559 Yeah, with my step brother, he's like very into the gaming world, 304 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.880 and he's twelve, and he's very like immersing the world when my gaming, 305 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.160 and he's experienced a lot of the like misogyny that we've been talking about. 306 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.240 And yeah, I think it's a really imprabling angle to take it from 307 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.160 because obviously he's twelve years old. He's twelve. A lot of like even 308 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.720 if you go on to like the interweb and the social media of like clips 309 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.680 of people gaming, even a lot of them like older people. So I 310 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:07.279 think from like a younger person's perspective, who's kind of views being shaped shaped 311 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.519 not to talk about like that, but do you think that like perhaps online 312 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:17.440 gaming will sort of shape perspectives that he has a woman? I think it's 313 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:22.319 really dangerous and really scary actually that we decided I decided to do content analysis 314 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:27.599 on TikTok because TikTok was the platform that amplified Andrew Tat's sort of presence in 315 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.799 society, which obviously for a couple of was it moms maybe a couple of 316 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:37.160 weeks months, gained a lot of attention, like of media attention. Obviously 317 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.480 he's you know, and then that means that his arrest and staff was very 318 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.279 you know, publified. Yeah. But what I decided to do was look 319 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:52.240 in to female gamers on TikTok by literally just typing that into the such box 320 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.519 to see what came up. And the first three relevant videos were the ones 321 00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.400 where it was like female gamers were sat with their like head sets one and 322 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.359 whatever, and they were all like, I think two of the videos were 323 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.519 the women started talking obviously for the first time in this game, and there 324 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:12.720 had been a group of men, and it was both and then both videos 325 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:17.200 it showed the responses of the men, which were obviously not very nice. 326 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:19.599 And then the other one was just a girl sat down gaming like just like 327 00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:25.440 just talking behind like what she was doing. And I decided to use for 328 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:30.480 each of the videos. I scrolled through the first twenty comments and from there 329 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:36.519 I picked out which ones were seemed like negative, misogynistically like driven effectively, 330 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:40.079 and then I put it into the statistic that one out of six of the 331 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:45.759 comments that I read were misogynistically motivated, which obviously is you know, even 332 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.920 in the majority seemed not. And it's out of the top twenty as well, 333 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.359 So those are the most liked and the most were definitely. So I 334 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.720 think even though you know, a majority at one six is not obviously a 335 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.039 big sort of I don't know if it he detect scrolling and then more would 336 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.279 come up. I said, it's like, who has interacted with that? 337 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.880 Yeah, up to the top, Yeah, people that have liked it, 338 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.559 like replied to those comments. I didn't go through all the replies and stuff 339 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.440 because that would take a whole lot longer, but you would not be here. 340 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.279 I would not be here to tell the tale. But yeah, so 341 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:22.119 even though it's like, even though most of the comments were supportive, it's 342 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:27.960 almost like, you know, the fact that there were comments carrying these attitudes 343 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:32.400 quite a lot once it feels a lot to be fair, but obviously it's 344 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:36.519 way under half. But I think that the fact that there were sexist statues 345 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.640 just present anyway should not be like deemed like sort of an anomaly. I 346 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.559 think it should be. You know, these this minority group of people who 347 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.480 were being misogynistic, they need to be addressed and obviously educated about it. 348 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.519 But I'm going to quickly read out a few of the stuff that a couple 349 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:57.480 of the comments that I noted down, which was for context. Obviously, 350 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:03.559 this was on the video of a female gamer who posted the video of the 351 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:10.559 boys behaving sexistly towards her. So first comment that I saw was quite proud 352 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:14.000 of that community, even though I'm not part of it, which I thought 353 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.279 was a bit of a mixed message. But it just seems a bit partoynists, 354 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.359 but very yeah, you know, good for them, like yeah, 355 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.799 yeah, exactly, the boys trying to make it out that he's I don't 356 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:30.680 know, not a misogynist, but I think that's you know. Then the 357 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.640 next one said just said, my boys, we've got w homie, which 358 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:40.799 just means like they're supporting what this quote unquote home you said. Then we've 359 00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.920 got W players, Then we've got classic, we've got real stigma. That's 360 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.559 why we love CS which I think was the name of the game or like 361 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:56.519 the platform whatever than they were on w community. And this one I thought 362 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.640 was particularly interesting because it was quite invalidating, but it said it's like, 363 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.559 it's like this for everybody, not just for you. So I thought that 364 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.519 was, you know, either that's from like a female player, which is 365 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.559 which also shows that misogynistic attitudes are still very right within the gaming community, 366 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.240 or it's from someone who also has experience abuse, which would be there's other 367 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:19.480 demographics you are also experiencing abuse. Either way, it's got different connotations, 368 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.400 both of which, but either way it's not good. And then the last 369 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.079 one was pick me, so effectively that's feeding back into what you said about 370 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.960 a girl being like one of the girls boys sort of thing. So yeah, 371 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.160 you can't play without being deemed you know, not a girl basically or 372 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.359 hypersexualist exactly. And I just thought, you know, it's very apparently it's 373 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.039 happening. And I think also the fact that people are, you know, 374 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.599 commenting the stuff, that means that they're like happy to publicly share their opinions, 375 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.960 so even like and then also I'd say that it's like it means that 376 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.039 for the people that choose not to comment, how many of these people are 377 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.640 carrying the same views and just don't comment. So for the small group of 378 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.720 people that do comment it and do share opinions, you know, there's like 379 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.240 a whole majority of other people who have the same opinions, but haven't you 380 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.880 know, kind of shows how the lines between like the online world and reality 381 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.680 start to become blurred because they're now saying that publicly and it's no longer anonymous. 382 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.200 Yeah. Yeah, because also the user names were like people's full names 383 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.200 as well. I mean I didn't find it doubt on the names, but 384 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.160 because I would not share it, I got to stick to the ethics exactly. 385 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.839 But I mean, but you can find out about people just why they're 386 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.640 using names. And also I think as well, like although to remain ethical 387 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:41.200 we didn't name names, I think that um it technically shouldn't. Like it's 388 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.839 not really in uninformed consent or whatever, like, yeah, it's not necessary 389 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:52.680 because then they're happy for people to see it and share it anyway. Surely, 390 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.720 Yeah, Like clearly they like I mean, maybe they only have sub 391 00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.039 colleciously thought about it. But like you know, when you go to comment 392 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:02.960 something, you read out there for everybody to see, and there's like digital 393 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.279 footprint all of that stuff, which you know, so I'd argue we didn't 394 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.079 cross in the ethical bound I don't think we crossed everyical boundaries. I mean, 395 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:15.359 it wasn't an invasion of privacy whatsoever, informed consent. I mean, 396 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.359 we're sharing their comments that they've shared to a whole platform of like people are 397 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:29.160 potentially millions of people. Yeah. Yeah, And then wasn't deceptive and no 398 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.799 harm to the participants because we haven't named them. And then about the other 399 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.000 graver terms, I said that it was it was low in reliability. Don't 400 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.680 worry, I've got here, don't you worry, because the nature of TikTok 401 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.680 is that there's constant updates and like changes in the algorithm system, which means 402 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.920 that if another sociologist was to carry out on their own device and search the 403 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.039 exact same vid eye search into the search, but they probably wouldn't be able 404 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.720 to find the exact same videos with the exact same comments at the top exactly. 405 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:02.440 I also said that in terms of objectivity, my opinions didn't influence, 406 00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:07.960 like, you know, the results, because I qualied I literally copied and 407 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.720 paste of what was said. You know, there was no I mean, 408 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.279 obviously I just picked out the comments that seemed to show it was all was 409 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.640 from the top twenty from the top, tive, and then validity. I 410 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:25.640 said that it's not exactly high and validity because if everyone commented their opinions, 411 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.000 then it would be truthful. But because this is only you know, a 412 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:33.519 small group of people that are commenting their opinions, it's quite difficult to understand 413 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:40.119 everybody's like reflective of that and stuff. And in terms of like generalizedability and 414 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:45.559 representativeness, wasn't overly but I think in comparison to using qualitative data, obviously 415 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.839 I did get like a bigger Yeah, I got you know, sixty people, 416 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:52.119 predumably sixty different people as well. I'm pretty sure i'd like to see 417 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.440 any repeated names. So sixty different people's opinions seems you know, it shows 418 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.559 patterns, patterns and trans patterns, and we love patterns and trail. It's 419 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:05.960 kind of like you can do all your research and to these are the statistics 420 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.519 for this, this and that, but you've got people in real life actively 421 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:13.680 being misogynistic and going out of their way to do so, and then have 422 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.119 pulled up like an average of that. Yeah, which is so I think, 423 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:22.240 Yeah, it's yeah, the statistics, I guess show statistics don't lie, 424 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:28.079 they do not lie. But what linking back to the whole thing about 425 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:32.359 how this could be influenced by Andrew Tables these videos were. When I looked 426 00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.839 at the dates, they were all within the last I want to say, 427 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:37.279 six months, it was like five or six months. It was since the 428 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.039 beginning of the shiar definitely. Yeah, So I mean, I don't know 429 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:45.880 if that's reflective of Andrew Tates being in the picture, having his values like 430 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:50.079 posted online or whatever, but I mean it could be. It's so hard 431 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.079 to like tell if it wasn't wasn't like it's like because it was all on 432 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:57.519 social media. All of social media is intertwined anyways. Yeah, Like, 433 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:02.240 I guess you can think of different communities kind of accessing the same kind of 434 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.200 information not infiltrating it. It's nice to think that something on social media would 435 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:12.920 not infiltrate the online world, But you just don't know exactly, So that's 436 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.799 it's hard to tell. But I mean, we could potentially put it out 437 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:21.279 there that Andrew Tate had influence maybe one of these comments at least exactly. 438 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.960 But yeah, and then you spoke quite a lot about Andrew Table. Okay, 439 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:29.279 yeah, so that kind of links to the sort of like unstructured interview 440 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:34.640 slash conversation I had with my brother. So he's only twelve of us mentioned 441 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.319 before, and he was like very involved in the online gaming world, specifically 442 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.039 when Andrew Tape was popular, and he noticed like a significant like almost like 443 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:52.440 a direct correlation between Andrew Tait's popularity and how much misogyny was present sort of 444 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:59.720 online I mean on chats kind of with strangers, but also perhaps amongst his 445 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:04.319 friends group as well. It was very comical and obviously particularly in the online 446 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:10.760 gaming world. So basically what he was saying was that there was some like 447 00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:16.840 quite a lot of casual like traditional mistogeny present, so just comments like you 448 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.639 know, make me a satmwage or like go back to the kitchen, like 449 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:28.519 not even casual, actually blatantly sexist comments. I guess I'm non original used 450 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.000 in a casual setting, but not yet casual. But then it also got 451 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:37.440 more extreme. U not amongst his friends, but amongst strangers. He even 452 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.719 heard some like threats of sexual harassment, which obviously for a twelve year old 453 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:47.119 boy, that is very influential. I mean, it's quite interesting. If 454 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.239 you think about it links back to the first guy that I interviewed. He 455 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.960 was talking about he got into gaming when he was like seven or eight. 456 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:59.119 Yeah, and so it's so interesting, like like it was I think brought 457 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.519 up a lot on social media when at like the downside of Andrew Tape was 458 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:06.599 that a lot of his following was young men. Yeah, and they're so 459 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.119 influential that it's kind of it's so interesting that your brother. Yeah, it's 460 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:15.480 good that he was able to recognize that's that's wrong. At first they didn't, 461 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.679 so it's very It did definitely have an impression on him. He essentially 462 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.679 on his algorithm on his TikTok few page was obviously very different to what people 463 00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:29.840 like us would have been. And the clips he was seeing of Andrew Tape 464 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.760 were more kind of like started off as like motivational content, trying to like 465 00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:38.960 inspire young boys. Obviously that was masked to be like masking something very bad. 466 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.000 Yeah, but he saw it as kind of motivational, and he saw 467 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.559 stuff about Andrew Tape donating to charities. Yeah, it's so easy to like 468 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:52.480 manipulate certain facts because you could say that anyone has done any like bad person 469 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:57.079 has done a good thing, and they can just like over amplify this good 470 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.119 deed and completely like block out all the bad stuff. Because you were saying 471 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:01.960 about how like, you know, obviously the motivational stuff is like he's telling 472 00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:07.320 them not to smoke, not to yeah, stuff like this, which seems 473 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.000 on surface from a good perspective, it seems quite innocent as well. That's 474 00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:13.880 the kind of stuff that you would get taught in schools. Yeah, exactly, 475 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.719 so it seems quite authentic as well. Yeah, kind of almost a 476 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:21.159 bit of tenalistic. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's like almost like a 477 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.239 father figure for a lot of young boys, which kind of Yeah. And 478 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:30.039 then as the misogyny starts to slip in, he might get like the occasional 479 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:34.840 video with a casual fro away comment, but he wasn't getting the serious, 480 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:39.840 like harmful misogynistic videos that I would have been seeing half for a Laila, 481 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:45.079 So it kind of, yeah, began to influence his mindset. Um, 482 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.840 I mean probably to the point where he was saying misogynistic things. I mean, 483 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.880 obviously it's hard for me to know, and it doesn't make him necessarily 484 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:59.760 the bad person because this is what he's you know, been and that's that 485 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.079 kind of shows how much of an impression the media can have, and like 486 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:07.880 obviously with the globalization topic, like how much media is having an impact on 487 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:14.480 identity and relationships now, Yeah, especially when they're growing up on this generation 488 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:16.119 in this space. And it kind of goes back to what I was saying 489 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:20.920 that you can create your own echo chamber. You are inherently on your four 490 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:23.840 you pages and your algorithm. Yeah, curating an echo chamber for yourself, 491 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:30.079 Andrew Hay is essentially like gaining the trust of young boys. And then I 492 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.280 mean my brother said that ultimately he had to like part of the reason he 493 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:38.360 started gaming less and moving to other games, not Fortnite, because this was 494 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:44.119 mostly prevalent on games such as Fortnite, which obviously a much younger audience that 495 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.800 which is probably why you were saying from a lot of your interviewees that they 496 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:52.199 weren't really experiencing it as much because that was on a different platform. So 497 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:57.039 there was like FIFA and called duty and stuff one that a lot of people 498 00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:00.880 are reference and they're obviously a lot less impressionable than like a group of twelve 499 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:05.519 year olds. Yeah, so yeah, he kind of like distanced himself from 500 00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:09.880 that, but it really shows how I think it can have a massive impact 501 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:15.000 definitely, And like also like the whole thing about him, like creating I 502 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.239 don't really know the ins and outs, but like that Hustlers University thing that 503 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:22.599 he like made. Have you heard about that? I remember hearing. I 504 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.039 mean I know someone who I mean, I don't know them well enough, 505 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.480 but I know someone who dropped out of the college they went to and joined 506 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.159 the Hustlers University. I don't know where they are now, had contact with 507 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.679 them, joined Andrew Takes University, And it just shows how like impression of 508 00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.679 all this passion is because he's gained their trust, basically got them under his 509 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:46.000 wing and sort of can manipulate his ideologies into their everyday valleys. I mean, 510 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.800 it's not you know, some people can distinguish the difference between you know 511 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.760 well, like like you were saying, it just depends what your algorithms feeding 512 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.760 you. Yeah, definitely, And in relating it to like also video games 513 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:02.280 as well, Like it just shows how kind of blood the online world is. 514 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:07.519 And like I don't really know, it's quite getting out of it going 515 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.760 on the right lines because it's so easy to slip in, like casual sexism. 516 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:15.360 If you see someone getting getting this massive like following from it and like 517 00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:20.880 people not even well people obviously definitely batting an eye, but like they're following, 518 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:25.719 they're following still ridiculously like or I think it's like the idea of even 519 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.840 online you can penetrate like stereotypes and stuff. I remember one of the interviewees 520 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.800 was talking about. She was talking about and if you're revealed to be a 521 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.199 girl on like a male only or like a predominantly male game, you're presumes 522 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.400 to be bad at the game, or like they just don't want you cominent 523 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:46.639 stuff. It's like, oh, you're playing a woman. Yeah. It's 524 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:53.920 kind of like those ideals stem either from people's real life onto the online world, 525 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:59.039 or those views on the online world penetrate to your life. I feel 526 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.559 like that quote about like playing like a woman, it's like goes way way 527 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:05.480 back, like decades ago from where you know. It can be like if 528 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.960 a woman's playing the sport, you're playing like a girl, throwing like a 529 00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:13.199 girl, stuff like that. So it just shows how like interconnected past the 530 00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:16.519 way women were treated in the past in like other activities and then into this 531 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:23.159 like globalized like modernized present world of where video games are heavily used. So 532 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:30.960 it just shows that it is regressive and it also maybe provides like for young 533 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:35.559 boys, obviously the online gaming community can provide a sense of safety and security, 534 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.199 and maybe those regressive and traditional values provide that security in a sense. 535 00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:46.559 Yeah, like that's true. They feel connected to like it's just something. 536 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.679 I mean, I am like, it's like that's I don't remember what so 537 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.039 I just said it, but it's I'm going off on a tangent. But 538 00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:59.960 about religion, people connect to traditional values because it makes them Bruce thinking, 539 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.840 Yeah, that's what I'm trying to Yeah, that's a really good point. 540 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.480 Actually, I think that's Yeah. I feel like we need to wrap this 541 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.519 up. So I think we're going to be listening to fair. I could 542 00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:14.559 talk about us for ages, but I don't know, I go through like 543 00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:19.960 the Grover terms. Yeah, yeah, obviously I was very unstructured. So 544 00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.559 but I'd say that the main term that this focused on is raising validity because 545 00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:29.760 obviously built a close rapport, like yeah, he seemed to trust it as 546 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.800 well. He was very trusting and he was very open, open and honest, 547 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.480 and it was kind of like self reflection. Yeah, that probably was 548 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.960 quite like not just for like you, but probably quite insightful for him to 549 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:50.119 hear him. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Obviously generalizability is probably quite low. 550 00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:52.360 I guess you could say it's generalizable in the sense that it focuses on 551 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:55.639 a younger audience, whereas a lot of yours older audience. You can kind 552 00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:01.400 of expand it to different age groups. Um, but yeah, I guess 553 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:06.880 it wasn't particularly objective. It was kind of just more of an open discussion. 554 00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:12.639 Yeah, so not particually reliable, but definitely like valid insight. I 555 00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:20.559 think the validity line is really important, I guess because I guess, like 556 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.360 I mean with mit and I've just got a statistic, But because I don't 557 00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:25.199 know the people in the context thing, I can't question them about it. 558 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.719 Further, I can't ask what made them say that, what led them to 559 00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:30.840 this, like all of that, Whereas I feel like you've got a very 560 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:34.960 insightful like piece of information from him. Yeah, I think I think it's 561 00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:38.639 very interesting to me. I think it's a really nice comparison to what all 562 00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:44.400 of my interview he said. It's kind of the behavior that Harper witnessed online. 563 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:46.559 I think it really nicely rounds it up to kind of got different age 564 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:52.280 ranges, and it seems to be the same kind of values carrying through the 565 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:57.320 values for behavior being carried through no matter what age you are. Yeah, 566 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.920 it's interesting to see how like in the future this will like progress or like 567 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.159 what will or reagress it even like you mean hopefully regression, like want The 568 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.079 last interview I interviewed in them, including in this study, said that she 569 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:15.760 felt that takes Rise meant that people calling out misogyny. Yeah, because it's 570 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.400 kind of like all I mean with his new conviction, you can see how 571 00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:23.360 how it turns out for people out how deep rooted misogyny can be. Yeah, 572 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:29.280 so it kind of influences people to call out sexcessitudes and sexist behavior, 573 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:31.239 which is really good. It's definitely good. But you can't agree, you 574 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.639 just haven't. It could also encourage it, yeah, exactly, And like 575 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.639 if you want to be able to change, like to be able to change 576 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:42.559 so many people's opinions, and everyone has to voice their opinion because if if 577 00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.280 you get one comment, like on TikTok saying one like the first comments say 578 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.440 on a video being sexist, you didn't get a stream of comments after that, 579 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:53.440 and that just like fuels that people's believes and stuff. But yeah, 580 00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:57.039 I'd say I've said all I me to say, yeah, so should we? 581 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.280 So what was our inial question? Our initial question was how aggressive misogynistic 582 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:05.320 values presented in the gaming world. And I think that they are presented like 583 00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:10.880 I would say that over time, although the way that people may have come 584 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.760 about saying these things has changed. Obviously in the nineteen fifties or seventeen, 585 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:21.599 commenting on you weren't commenting on TikTok's but maybe you were, like when you 586 00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.519 found out that this space game that was released in ninety seventy one was released, 587 00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:29.639 you might I don't know, from in the casual she's got nice boobs 588 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.440 or something. I don't know, the locker room trap exactly exactly. I 589 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.079 like you gave us like an example. Yeah, I don't know if, 590 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.199 I don't know if I'm allowed to, I don't know. Well, I'm 591 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.760 proud, I'm a swarm for forty minutes. I'm so proud of you. 592 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.320 Thank you. Sorry, that makes me sound like I've got like a terrible 593 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:50.719 like I've got a bad range of like vocabuy, I just like I don't 594 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:53.119 know. I just okay, No I even know myself much anyway. No, 595 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:58.920 I feel like the way that I turn around the way that aggressive misogynistic 596 00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.719 values are presented, I feel like it really from what I found out, 597 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:07.360 it depends of what speed you're in world, which has got some hope that 598 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.559 you may just not encounter it at all. But that could mean you just 599 00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:15.079 get really lucky and get into a really nice world or that you've chosen. 600 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:17.920 I'm not going to go there because that's really misogionistic. I'm going to limit 601 00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:22.639 myself to this space. Yeah, so I do not have to endure sexism 602 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.840 on the daily or everything in time of play. So I feel like you 603 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:31.559 can actively remove yourself from the situations. But I would also argue that it's 604 00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:37.760 still very prominent, easier to become involved and easy to gradually kind of slip 605 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:42.360 into that world. Exactly. I've seen with many young gamers. I think 606 00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.719 the perception that you know, there's a misogyny or it's not really that, 607 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:51.719 but an online gaming is it's incorrect, it's incorrect, it's a flawed point 608 00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:57.000 of view. Yeah, definitely, I think it's it's differ a limited perception 609 00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:02.800 exactly, and I guess you could literal like, there's a part it's fine, 610 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.679 it's okay, it's giving us a little morale boots, it's like last 611 00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:10.559 leg the podcast. But yeah, I mean, I guess you could say 612 00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:14.880 that we're being like we could be seen as objective because we're all woman teenage 613 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.400 girls. But I mean, from our point of view, if we're seeing 614 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.960 sexism in society, then it's obviously an issue. Even if it's like a 615 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:27.400 minority of people showing sex statues, it's still very much presents. It's still 616 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.360 an issue, no matter it's more Jessica, what do you think? I 617 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.800 mean, Yeah, I agree with everything that's been said. I think the 618 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:39.320 idea of kind of maybe some of your interviewees maybe avoiding the misogyny, but 619 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.880 then also by just saying that, oh, I think these values should be 620 00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.199 equal, it's kind of taking an attitude of avoidance to the issue of feminism 621 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:53.760 and not really actually taking a reflective view of what's actually going on exactly. 622 00:46:55.039 --> 00:47:05.199 They're playing riddle kicks. I have no idea. Oh, okay to pause 623 00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.960 this, Okay, I know what I think we could say we should leave 624 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:12.639 at that. I remember when I like when me and just walking out for 625 00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:14.639 I was like, yeah, we like ten minutes when we're into it, 626 00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:17.440 like roughly ten minutes for fifty minutes later. I mean, because we also 627 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:22.079 like took a break and also ye didn't He's going to be like listening to 628 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.159 this sort of like the sped up version, two times version. We're very 629 00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:29.400 interesting people. I hope, yeah, hopefully listens. Hopefully you enjoyed. 630 00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:30.920 Yeah, if you, if you've got this bar, then thank you so 631 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:37.159 much. And I hope you enjoyed our research and found it interesting and sightful. 632 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:43.599 Oh great minds think alike. Anyway, see you later. Thank you 633 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:50.519 for listening. If you are a regular listener to The Sociology Show, then 634 00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:53.440 you could help with the cost of promoting and hosting the podcast. 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