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Hey, I'm Hancels Aaron from the
BFY tw podcast here with my buddy Stevie

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Hey, what's up? And Aggie
Hey, and we're here to first of

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all, categorically deny the rumors going
around that all we've been doing lately is

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copying other podcasts. This is categorically
untrue and we deny it completely. Having

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said that, please enjoy the rest
of the Beer in Front podcast. But

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when you're finished, maybe check out
our new project, Lagger in Back,

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00:00:26,559 --> 00:00:30,239
a show about new school laggers,
old classics, and the great state of

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Illinois. Pretty sure it's never been
done before. This is the special Pizza

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edition of Beer in Front. I'm
going to talk pizza from all around the

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United States. I'll talk about the
history of pizza from Napoli through New York,

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Chicago, Saint Louis Quad Cities,
everywhere else in between. I'll talk

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with folks that will tell you what
beers pair with pizza and so much more.

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I'm really excited about this episode,
So grab a slice, kick back,

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Relac, grabbing r C with the
slice of pizza, and you'll be

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good to go. This is the
pizza episode of Beer in Front, and

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it's coming up now welcome to the
special Pizza episode of Beer in Front.

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I'm your host, Dave's Alatorus and
Beer in Front as part of the Odd

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Pods Media Network. Tonight, I'm
talking pizza from all over. I'll talk

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about pizza from New York, Detroit, Saint Louis, Phoenix, Philadelphia,

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New Haven, Connecticut, amongst others. I'll touch on making pizza at home,

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the connection between our sicola and pizza, and I'll also have a few

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people on to talk about beer to
pair with your favorite pie. Chicago is

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known for many things. Over a
hundred years ago, it was al Capone

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and the stockyards. In the eighties
and nineties, it was Dicka and the

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Bears, Jordan and the Bulls,
the weather, corrupt politicians never go out

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of style here. But one of
the topics that gets brought up when I

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talk to people from outside the area
in Chicago pizza. The common perception of

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Chicago style pizza is the deep dish
style popularized by places like Loluemel Nadis,

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Geno's East, and countless others.
If you ask most locals, we don't

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eat that very often. For most
true Chicago style pizza is what we now

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call tavern cut. Tavern cut is
a very thin cracker like crust, and

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it's cut into squares, which causes
fights in some circles over who gets the

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outer crusted pieces. The small corner
pieces are like bitcoin a few years back.

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Good rule of thumb. If somebody
paid for the pizza, give them

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the majority of the outer pieces unless
you have permission. Other cities claim to

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have the best pizza, and I'm
going to leave that up for you to

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decide. Let me just say that
we don't perform or a gami with some

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giant slice just to eat it without
the grease dripping all over our clothes.

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We're far more civilized here in Chicago. The Detroit style of pizza is in

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my book excellent, and I'm going
to have one from time to time to

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mix things up. Mashed potatoes on
a New Haven style pizza from Peace is

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in my book, absolutely outstanding.
I fell in love with the pizza in

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Rome, so I'm not biased on
what we have here in Chicago, but

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I'm pretty close. Pizza is widely
believed to have originated in Naples, Italy,

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in the late eighteenth century. At
the time, it wasn't a restaurant

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dish. It was served by street
vendors as an inexpensive, easy to eat

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meal for workers on their way to
work or coming home. Tomatoes were a

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newer item in Italy at the time
and weren't used on pizza until later.

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The early Neapolitan street pizzas were topped
with garlic, salt, and lar Some

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included cocchio covella, a cheese made
from horses, milk and basil. The

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tomato was first discovered by the Spanish
while exploring and then conquering the Americas,

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It wasn't considered to be used for
food. Tomatoes were initially thought of as

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poisonous. It wasn't until the nineteenth
century that the tomato began to be used

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in cooking. Tomatoes were still a
curiosity, looked down upon by gour maze,

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which made the tomato cheap and an
attractive ingredient to street vendors making pizza.

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On a trip to Naples, King
Umberto and Queen Margharita became tired of

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complicated French dishes for every meal.
Local chefs rushed to make some local dishes

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for the royal couple, one of
which was a pizza made with tomatoes fresh

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basil and mozzarella. Queen Margherite to
love this and was named after her.

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This was important in pizza becoming a
truly national dish as opposed to a regional

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Naples One Naples is considered to be
the world capital of pizza. Even today,

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they have rigid standards as to what
makes a Neapolitan pizza. There's places

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in Chicago that serve Neapolitan pizza like
Spoccanopoly and Forno Rosso. Personally, I've

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been to Spaccanopoly and I could vouch
that that's a really good pizza. Pizza

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in Rome now that's delicious as well. It's a popular street food called altaglio,

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which is the translation as pizza by
the cut. It's served in rectangular

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slices and it's priced. Wait,
you tell the person behind the counter roughly

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how much to cut off. They
throw it in an oven to heat up,

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and off you go. People all
over the world stop at the Pizza

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Arium, which is close to Vatican
City that was opened twenty years ago by

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the world famous Gabriel Bunchy Bunchee has
a second location that opened in Chicago's West

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Loop in two thousand and seventeen.
You may remember him from an episode of

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Anthony Bourdain. Pizza altaglio has a
thicker crust compared to other styles. It's

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almost kind of like bread. It
has like air pockets in there, and

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they're topped with all sorts of various
ingredients, most of which are what's available

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from that day at local vendors.
Sources on where pizza was first known in

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America, I've seen New York,
Boston, and even Chicago listed. What's

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not up for debate is that immigrants
from Italy came to America at the turn

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of the twentieth century and started making
and selling their pizza in Italian American neighborhoods.

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At the end of World War Two, US soldiers who fought in the

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Italian Campaign, even up to General
Eisenhower, who were introduced to Italy's cuisine,

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brought home their love for pizza.
In the early fifties, Italian American

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stars like Frank Sinatra and Joe DiMaggio
started promoting pizza, which provided another boost

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to this centuries old new dish.
Later in the fifties, chained like Pizza

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Hut and Little Caesar's Open, and
followed in later years by places like Dominoes

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and other regional chains, which made
pizza accessible all around the country. In

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nineteen fifty seven, the first supermarket
frozen pizza was released, and today you

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have entire aisles in every grocery store
dedicated to the frozen pizza for home cooking

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and consumption. Looking at some of
the pizza that's out today, it hardly

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resembles what you would find in Naples
one hundred and fifty years ago. Many

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places will regionalize their pies with what
the consumer wants. You can get ham,

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pineapple, barbecue, chicken, taco, meat, et cetera on a

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pizza made with a crust of cauliflower. While it's not my thing, if

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that's what you enjoy, great pizza
can get a negative rap as an unhealth

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the junk food. I'm calling bullshit
on that. Now. While some chains

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load up on sodium and extra oils
and fats, you could find or even

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better yet, you can make a
pizza at home that is one hundred times

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better, tastier, and more wholesome
than any fast, thirty minute or less

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chain place. Hey, I'm Lauren
and I'm John, and we host the

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Beard All Podcast, the podcast where
we talk about two of the greatest things

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in the world. Beer and weird
al and a lot of other things.

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We're funny. Yeah, that's basically
what I told him to say. Good

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job with listen, yay, but
no, seriously, we try to care

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of here with weird ol song and
talk about both things and go for the

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conversation takes us. It's fun.
I promise you'll like it. Yeah,

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I mean if you like talking about
random things as well as you know fine

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craft beers and some wonderful craft music. All right, welcome back to Beer

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in Front the Pizza episode. Now
we're going to talk New York pizza,

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love it or hate it? New
York pizza or pizza in America started in

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New York. I read things that
one of the first places was Chicago.

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As much as I love Chicago,
I'm calling bs on that because people didn't

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get off the boat on Lake Michigan. They got up the boat at Ellis

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Island started there. So the one
thing I read was a place called Lombardies.

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And I before I ramble on here, I want to talk to my

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friend Brian Colburn over at my weekly
mixtape. You've heard him on the show

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before. We were talking the doors
on the nineteen seven. What do you

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want? Episode Brian, how's it
going tonight? It's going great, Dave,

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thank you so much for having me
back. Man. Pleasure to see

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you again. Oh yes, absolutely, I'm glad you're back. I like

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the new show. Can you tell
everyone about the new podcast? Short thing?

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My Weekly Mixtape is a spinoff of
Playlist Wars. Playlist Wars is still

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a show. Gomez and I are
still best friends. However, his kids

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are a lot younger than my kids, and during the school year, getting

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together and finding a good time where
we can record is nearly impossible. When

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he is doing bathtime and getting the
kids to bed, I'm sitting there twiddling

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my thumbs. And then as soon
as he's ready to go, my kids

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are getting back from practice, and
it's homework and it's test studying and everything

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else. So we decided during the
school year to kind of put the show

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on hiatus. However, both of
us are out doing our own separate shows

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during the school year, and then
in the summer we're hoping to come back

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together and get a bunch of Playlist
Wars episodes recorded. So what I'm doing

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right now is a show called My
Weekly Mixtape, and basically It is a

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little bit of the antithesis to what
we did at playlist Wards, where everyone

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built a playlist and we kind of
duked it out on the air. This

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show is a little closer to what
I did growing up as a kid.

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I bring a guest on and we
pick a topic, and we each bring

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a bank of songs, which would
be then let's say our cassette collection back

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in the eighties, and we go
back and forth building a mixtape. But

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the fun of this show is we're
not building it with just ten songs we

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have in mind and kind of just
rattling them back and forth. You gotta

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follow the other person's lead, so
you want to make the strongest mixtape possible,

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So it's not necessarily your top ten
favorites, but you're making a mix

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that plays. So let's say a
group of you are going to get and

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go on a road trip later on, and you're doing the best road trip

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mix. You're going to go back
and forth and try to build to make

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it thematically fit what the topic is, as well as songs you really like.

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So it's kind of a collaboration.
And I'm lucky enough to be able

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to have some of the artists that
I'm fan that I'm a huge fan of

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come on the show and we build
the greatest hits of their band from a

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fan and musician perspective. So I
have Kevin Baldus from Lit coming on,

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and we are doing the greatest hits
of Lit, the songs of Lit,

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only it's coming from half a member
of the band and half a fan perspective.

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So a lot of deep cuts,
a lot of rarities, a lot

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of stuff that he would love to
hear the band play, a lot of

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stuff I've never heard the band play. So it's a total different dynamic than

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playlist wars, and it's something that
if you like music discussion, I hope

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you'll stop buying give it a listen. Yeah, it's a good time.

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You could check it out wherever you
listen to podcasts, and I'll include the

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link in the show notes. Well, some of the st if I was

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reading on New York pizza. One
thing said it started in nineteen oh five

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at a place called Lombardies in the
New York area. The times I've been

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there, there seems to be a
mom and pop pizza place on every corner.

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What is it in your opinion that
makes New York pizza the best in

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the world. To be perfectly honest, it's pizza by the slice. It's

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the way it's meant to be.
You could literally be walking down the street

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and you could have had lunch a
half hour ago, and you catch that

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smell of pizza go and by,
and you're like, ah, another slice

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won't hurt, And you could just
grab a massive New York City slice.

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It's nice and crispy, but it's
not breakable. It's not fragile. It

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holds the sauce and the cheese so
well, and you could fold it up

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like a night like a piece of
paper. But it's not thin. They

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talk about thin crust pizza. It's
not thin like a bar pizza. It's

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not like a Chicago deep dish by
any stretch of the imagination. Now there

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are variations on it depending on the
mom and pop places you go. Some

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will make it a little bit thicker, some will keep it a little more

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bar like. And for me,
it's kind of finding a place that really

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hits it for you. For me, that would be Joe's Pizza. It

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just so happens to be every time
I have a friend visiting and we're going

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through Times Square and Broadway, it
just happens to be one of the first

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places that they catch. And it's
happened to me on multiple times, like,

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oh, you've been telling me about
this New York pizza. We always

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happen to be passing Joe's when that
happens. Sometimes you got to wait in

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a long line, but that's part
of what it's all about. And Joe's

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are massive, delicious slices of pizza
and they know exactly the perfect amount where

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you could fold it and it's not
crumbling the pieces, it's holding everything.

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But it's nice and thin and crispy
as well. So you can't go better

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than pizza. When you're talking about
the folding, is it something like when

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you get your New York driver's license
that they teach you that as well,

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like the proper way to fold the
pizza. Because the time I was there,

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I was nineteen years old, so
I didn't know anything, and I'm

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like, Saucy, how do you
do this? Honestly, that's one of

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the first things we do after bottle
feeding here in this area. As soon

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as you're done, you know,
with the bottle, and you have the

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cheerios and you learn how to do. We teach you how to fold the

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pizza the right way, because that's
something that it just becomes natural, like

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Friday night pizzas when you're on vacation. You know, I'm I'm from New

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Jersey, so I am on the
other side of the border here, but

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for me, there's also the beach, and you've got Wildwood, New Jersey,

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and you've got both Max Pizza and
Sam's Pizza, which are two of

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my favorites. And I don't know
necessarily if it's the greatest pizza in the

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world. It's really really good.
But when you're standing and you've got the

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ocean right in front of you,
and you're on the boardwalk and you could

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smell the ocean breeze, and you
got a pizza that's just a little bit

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oilier than you would get in New
York City, but also a little bit

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better to help you with that beach
hangover that you're already nursing at like five,

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00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:26,839
at six o'clock in the evening,
nothing goes down better than either a

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00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,880
pie of pizza at Max or at
Sam's. They're again, massive foldable slices,

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00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,960
and I think that they're scientifically proven
to cure the beach hangover a little

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better than a traditional pizza anywhere else. You got the doll, you got

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the grease in your stomach. Yeah, you're good to go after a slice.

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Yeah. And the thing about that
is one other thing about New York.

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In New Jersey is while there are
tons of pizza huts and Dominoes,

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00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:03,440
there are so many local establishments.
Pretty much every town has one. Some

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00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:11,200
people do prefer Pizza Hut or Dominoes, but it's always an on occasion thing.

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Depends on your level of beer that
you've had prior, because most places

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00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:18,759
know when you're at your buddy's house. If you say, hey, I'm

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00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:22,920
gonna call domino as soon as you
get like the they're going, no,

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00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:26,240
I got a guy. It's always
a guy. It's like almost like a

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00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:29,920
drug deal. I got a guy. Yeah, I got the guy.

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00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,480
You don't. You don't want Dominoes, you don't want Pizza Hut. We're

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00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,720
gonna go my guy in this town. Well, is that guy's name Ray?

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00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:44,079
Because one thing I noticed and even
breeding articles, there seems to be

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00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,079
a thousand raised pizzas in New York? Is it the same Ray? Does

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00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,599
he haves? He like Nick?
Cannon. Does he have a lot of

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00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,440
kids? What's the deal with Ray? I have no clue. I have

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00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:03,000
gone in looking for Ray. He's
never there, but he owns pretty much

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00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:07,960
every other pizza place. And I'll
tell you right now, I am not

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00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,799
a expert when it comes to the
history behind it. But I have heard

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00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:22,079
that there are different establishments that just
use Rai's pizza based on if the owner's

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00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:25,200
actual name is right. But I
don't know how legally they're able to do

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00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:29,359
that, because if I opened up
a Pizza Hut and let's say my last

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00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,839
name was Hut, they'd still sue
me for everything I had. So I

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00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559
don't know how all that works out
to be perfectly honest. And I'm sorry

234
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:41,000
I failed you on that regard.
So I'm sorry about that. Oh that's

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00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:47,240
all right, not a problem.
Are there like toppings that are you would

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00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:52,400
think are like New York exclusive or
is it pretty much Plaine Cheese Pepperoni town

237
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:59,440
that is very much a standard everywhere
you go. But one thing I absolutely

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loved about New York City was the
pinnay and vodka sauce slice. And it's

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00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,720
exactly okay, it's you got your
regular based pizza. You got vodka sauce

240
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,039
instead of the pizza sauce, but
it still has the pizza sauce seasonings mixed

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00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:22,279
in. You've got a layer of
the pinay across the slice of pizza.

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00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:26,799
Then you put a little bit of
tomato sauce and your cheese on top of

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00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:33,279
it. And yes, it's still
slightly foldable, and you most people will

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00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,680
try to eat it with a fork
a knife, but you will get called

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00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,000
out. You gotta just kind of
hold the plate. It's a certain scientific

246
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:45,680
way that you hold the plate a
certain way because folding a plate full of

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00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,720
pinnay and vodka doesn't work very well. So you kind of have to slide

248
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:55,359
the pizza off the plate and into
your mouth. And then it's it's definitely

249
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,920
because if you use the fork a
knife, people are gonna be like this,

250
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,720
look at this guy's pizza. Would
have forked knife, no matter what,

251
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,359
No matter if the fact tourist over
here, Yeah, no matter if

252
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:08,839
the fact that the slice weighs seventeen
pounds. Yeah. At my biggest I

253
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:15,079
would order always two slices, and
I never was able to. I always

254
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,920
got halfway through that second slice going
starting to sweat here like they are belly

255
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,480
bombs, but they're so savory and
so delicious. So I don't know if

256
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,000
it's a staple, but that was
one that really really stuck out to me.

257
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,440
Oh, I'm gonna have because I'm
lactose intolerance, so I'm gonna have

258
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,440
to take a pill before i have
that, But I think I would definitely

259
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,000
have to give that a try.
I'll take a whole bottle and it'll be

260
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,799
so worth the aftermath for the next
few days because you'll have tasted the glorious

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00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:49,519
greatness that is a penay and vodka
sauce slice. Because I was a huge

262
00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:53,680
fan of vodka sauce before. As
you know, I got older, things

263
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,359
happened, so I became lactose intolerant, so I'll have to take a couple

264
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,200
of lactate pills before I am that. But that sounds outstanding. It definitely

265
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,079
is. And let me tell you, if you've been out partying, it's

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one of those ends of the night
slices where it could go in one or

267
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,920
two directions, because either it's gonna
sop up every last bit and you're gonna

268
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,279
be it's like the hangover cure,
or you had just that whenever you get

269
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:26,279
to that like too many, It
doesn't matter if that one too many is

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00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:32,640
literally point zero zero zero zero zero
one, or if you're a million times

271
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,000
over too many. The end result
is still going to be the same.

272
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So you gotta time it perfectly because
the belt it is a thick, heavy

273
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slice. If you're unsure, go
with the regular slice because it'll still be

274
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a trick for any of your hangover
needs. Are there any other local spots

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00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,359
there? We were talking before and
you know, talking online, you're a

276
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,160
big Giants fan? Are there spots
like if you're going to a Giants game

277
00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:10,279
near was it MetLife Arena that you
go to? Or any other local spots

278
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,319
near you that you would recommend to
someone? Oh? God, anytime.

279
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,559
If you're looking to bring pizzas to
the game, you can go anywhere.

280
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:22,920
Honestly, I have dined at.
I can't countless establishments. East Rutherford,

281
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:29,319
Rutherford, Carl Statwoodridge Hasbrook Hites,
that whole section around MetLife Stadium. You're

282
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:34,720
gonna get fantastic pizza at any location. There's really no bad way to go.

283
00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:37,920
I mean, look, every town's
gonna have their preference, They're gonna

284
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:44,079
have their guy because if you go
to one pizza place all the time and

285
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,559
they see you going inside to another
one, it's almost like you're cheating.

286
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:52,759
So it becomes a bond and almost
a friendship with your pizza guy. So

287
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,880
honestly, I think if you asked
me and nine of my buddies from that

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00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,319
area, you'd get ten different answers
and we all fight them out. Bryan,

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00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:04,720
I thank you so much for coming
on. I need to make a

290
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:11,200
trip now to get this vodka sauce
pena slice because I'm all over it at

291
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,400
once again. Tell everyone where they
could find my weekly mixtape. I almost

292
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,000
slipped and called it the other one. But where they could find my weekly

293
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:22,839
mixtape, Well, it's very easy. You can just head to my Weekly

294
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:30,279
Mixtape dot com or just search my
Weekly Mixtape anywhere you listen to podcasts.

295
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,960
We're on all the channels. We're
on Apple, Podcast, Spotify, Amazon,

296
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,480
Google, Goodpods. YouTube. We
have a I have a feed specifically

297
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:44,359
up on YouTube that's just you know, still image with all the info.

298
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,279
But if you are at work and
some reason you can have YouTube on in

299
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:49,519
the background you want to listen there, you can do that as well.

300
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:53,640
And you can also reach out to
me directly at my weekly mixtape at gmail

301
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,640
dot com. Excellent, Well,
Brian, thank you again. You made

302
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,480
me hungry recording this right after I
got home from work. So I need

303
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:04,759
to find something to eat real quick. And I don't know if I can

304
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:10,039
make this pie on my own,
but I'm gonna try that Panay vodka sauce

305
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,079
pizza one day. Well. Now, I'm actually curious in Chicago because I

306
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,599
know how much of a belly bomb
that is on New York style pizza.

307
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,920
What you need to do is you
need to find your favorite Chicago pizza place

308
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,519
and see if they'll make a Chicago
style Panay. And like, I can't

309
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:32,599
even imagine you couldn't that would be
a half a slice. Yeah, And

310
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:38,720
like the deep dish that everyone associates
with here is a tourist pizza. We

311
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,880
don't eat it. We eat the
tavern cut slices that It's really thin.

312
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,960
It's cut into squares so you could
eat it without you know, you could

313
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,720
eat it with one hand. They
cut it that way so you could have

314
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:55,880
your drink in one hand and the
slice of pizza small slice in the other.

315
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,759
So I don't know how that would
work, but I might have to

316
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,960
try that on my own when I
make one from scratch. Here, there

317
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,599
you go, there you go.
It's definitely worth it, and it'll last

318
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,480
year probably, I mean his life. If you freeze it, you could

319
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:11,839
probably get six months of food out
of one pie. I mean, oh

320
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:17,440
yeah, I'm gonna have to do
it like on my Friday night, so

321
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:22,839
I'll be home on Saturday and Sunday
just in case. It's definitely worth it.

322
00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,039
Though, you'll you'll, you'll,
you'll say, you'll say to me,

323
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,720
Brian, this weekend has been absolutely
awful. But damn that was good.

324
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,000
That was good, all right,
Brian, thanks again once again.

325
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:38,079
You could check him out. It
might weekly mixtape and in the summertime you

326
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:45,000
could listen to him and Gomez playlist
Wars. Also his partner Gomez. You

327
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,799
could find over at the Sleevey g
Show. Brian, Thank you again,

328
00:27:48,839 --> 00:28:00,440
sir. We'll talk to you later. Thanks again, man. Well,

329
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,880
what goes better with Pizza than Beer? Coming on now is Jess and Vante.

330
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,240
Jess writes about the business of beer
and brew bound and is based out

331
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:14,559
of Salem, Massachusetts. Jess,
thanks for coming on to chat about pizza

332
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:18,240
and beer. Thank you so much
for having me. Dave. Pizza and

333
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,240
beer my favorite thing, so I
am thrilled to be here. Well,

334
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,680
before we get started, we need
to talk about something more important than pizza

335
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:33,079
and beer. Did you get Springsteen
tickets? Yeah? No, I did

336
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,799
not, So he's got the you
know, there's two parts of this tour

337
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,720
that he's currently on, which I
don't want to wish ill or put any

338
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,000
of this out into the world,
but the guys are getting old, so

339
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:48,799
I don't know how many years we
got. So the first round went on

340
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,880
sale last summer, I did not
get any. It was an emotional roller

341
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,039
coaster. And now we've got another
round of shows coming, so I'm really

342
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,319
hoping that this is going to be
my time, but we'll see. Yeah,

343
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:04,240
they just announced this morning we're recording
this on February fifteenth, that there's

344
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,799
going to be a Wrigley Field show
in August and tickets go on sale and

345
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,880
on Friday. So after seeing reports
about the ticket prices for the first leg,

346
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,960
I'm a little weary, but thankfully
Bruce announced this the day my income

347
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,000
tax check came in, so yeah, yeah that works. You know,

348
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:29,680
God, I think like ten years
ago in Boston they had announced a Fenway

349
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,440
Park show after they'd already announced shows
at Gillette, So everybody that had Gillette

350
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,240
tickets really wanted to go to Fenway. And I was able to get Gillette

351
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,279
tickets for like twenty bucks, so
keeping out, Yeah it was great.

352
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,079
Yeah. I have a feeling there'll
be more than one Chicago show, so

353
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:48,960
maybe after the first Wrigley show sells
out, that might be able to get

354
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,519
the second night. But yeah,
seeing some reports of five hundred to one

355
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,680
thousand dollars for a ticket, I'm
like, I don't know if I could

356
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,759
drop that. Yeah, it's insane. And I saw them with using the

357
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,240
dynamic pricing. I had seen tickets
for his Boston show, which is at

358
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,720
like TD Garden or like the Celtics
and Bruins play. I saw a pair

359
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,599
of going for like eighteen thousand dollars, and it's like, who's who is

360
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,680
doing this? Yeah, I don't
know. Yeah, eight that's a little

361
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:21,400
rough. Roy's gonna need to like
come over and play piano with the house

362
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,039
for that kind of money. Yeah. Well, can you tell everyone about

363
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:30,240
your background? Yeah? Absolutely so. I'm the managing editor at brew Bound.

364
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,960
We are a multimedia trade publication that
covers the beer industry. We come

365
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:40,839
at everything from the business lens.
So sometimes people will ask, Hey,

366
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:41,559
can I send you beer? And
I'm like, Hey, of course you

367
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,200
can send me beer, but you
know, I'm not going to write about

368
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,839
it. You know, we don't
do like product reviews. We write about

369
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:51,319
you know, business, you know, supply chain issues, distribution contracts,

370
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,839
new products. Not in the hey, this taste really great way, but

371
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,279
in the this is going to be
available in a four pack and a six

372
00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:00,279
pack way. So it's really fun. We do stories, We have a

373
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:03,960
weekly podcast, we do video shows. We have a series of live events

374
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,640
throughout the year. I have a
really great time. I know, I'm

375
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,559
really lucky to be able to say
I love my job. But before Brewn,

376
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,720
I was at the Boston Beer Company. I worked on the Sam Adams

377
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,400
marketing team. Excellent. Yeah.
Sam Adams was the first beer I had

378
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:25,240
on my show. It was the
first craft beer I've ever had, back

379
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:30,759
in eighty nine, and from that
point led me down this long road to

380
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:37,519
ruin here. My first craft beer
was a Sam cherry wheat at the fancy

381
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:40,720
beer bar in the town where I
went to college. So right there with

382
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:45,720
you now, you're in Massachusetts now, but you're originally from New Jersey.

383
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:52,319
Is there a difference in like local
pizza styles between the two places? Oh

384
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,640
my god, you have no idea. I don't mean to disparash the fine

385
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,920
pizzaolos of the Base Date, but
it really pales in comparison to just New

386
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,359
Jersey, you know, like we
just don't have like there are great pizza

387
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,440
places up here in mass but you
know, the in New Jersey, there's

388
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:12,039
you know, like on every corner
you can walk into a pizza place,

389
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,200
get you know, two slices and
a canidiet coke for five bucks and the

390
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,359
pizza is phenomenal. It doesn't really
exist here. We do have some places

391
00:32:19,359 --> 00:32:22,480
that are really good, but I'm
a little spoiled, and I think my

392
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,359
pizza Palett's probably a little little too
high brow. I manage, but I

393
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,920
make pizza at home a lot more
than I do order it. When you

394
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,160
make pizza at home, is it
more of like the New York New Jersey

395
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:39,160
style or do you just you know, come up with your own things.

396
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,920
That's a great question. It is
kind of more like my own things.

397
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,680
Like if I've got a bunch of
does going we'll you know, well,

398
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:50,279
we'll roll some out like nice thin
crests. But I also will do like

399
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:54,240
a pan and a cast iron yeah
so yeah, or like Detroit in a

400
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:57,799
cake pan. I don't have like
the special Detroit pan. I know that

401
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,079
exists, but I just don't have
that much sas. Yeah, I was

402
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:06,160
looking for some on Amazon in other
places, but yeah, those are you

403
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,559
made out of steel. I'm going
to need to talk to somebody in Detroit

404
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,920
to see if they could send an
authentic one over as opposed to some knockoff

405
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,200
on Amazon. I'm sure you could
find one. Yeah, when you're drinking

406
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,279
beer and you're not right now for
reasons. But in your opinion, what

407
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:30,799
style goes best with pizza, So
I think it really depends on the pizza.

408
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,839
But if we're talking like regular plane, and I know, I think

409
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,440
everybody else from not the New York
New Jersey area calls it cheese, but

410
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,400
a regular plane pizza to me,
I just want like a nice, like

411
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:46,559
standard American lagger, all right,
Just something with some bubbles that's going to

412
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,319
clear like the grease off your palette
and it's not going to interfere with the

413
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:55,720
flavors of the pizza too much,
nothing too poppy. If you're adding pepperoni,

414
00:33:55,799 --> 00:33:59,359
I kind of like to go Pilsner, which obviously there's a lot of

415
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:04,279
similarities year in style. I find
that with like Italian sausage, which we

416
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,880
do on pizza a lot at home. Anything that's like a nice like a

417
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,519
little bit of a multier backbone,
like a Marzina Vienna lager, a douncle.

418
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,719
But if you're using like fresh mutz, that's when I like to go

419
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,119
really light Hellis Kolsch. You don't
want to negate, you know what's going

420
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,480
on with like the really nice,
delicate flavors of the pizza. Now you

421
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:28,960
mentioned you make a lot of pizza
home, and I remember, and I

422
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,800
still have the recipe somewhere on a
hard drive. This was maybe fifteen years

423
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,559
ago, and maybe you were part
of it back then. But Samuel Adams

424
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:45,199
put out on their website like a
recipe for making the dough with Sam Adams

425
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:50,039
Boston Lager, and that was my
go to dough recipe and it was very

426
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,559
good and everyone loved it. But
yeah, I remember that. I So

427
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,639
I started at Boston Beer as a
tour guide when I was in graduate school,

428
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,960
working a Masters in Marketing. So
I remember that happening that I would,

429
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,199
you know, at the brewery given
tours at the time, and I've

430
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,559
tried it too. It's it's good. I have a hard time. I

431
00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:09,559
just remember having a hard time working
the dough once the year was at it

432
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:14,599
and that sounds like a meat problem. But do you still use it?

433
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:20,519
I haven't made it here in a
while and doing stuff for the show.

434
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:24,480
I've now gone out and purchased the
new Stone to make it at home.

435
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:29,239
So I'm gonna try it. I'm
gonna try a couple different I'm gonna use

436
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,800
John's recipe from Chicago, give his
dough recipe a whirl, do some other

437
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,559
ones, but I do want to
try that one because I remember using that

438
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:42,320
a lot and I was happy with
the results. Yeah, it's probably definitely

439
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,960
worth a shot, especially with the
reformulated Boston water. Yeah, I'm hopefully

440
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:49,880
I'm running out after we're done talking. I'm gonna see if I can get

441
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,400
my hands on that. Someone there
said it should be in the Chicago area

442
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:57,719
by the weekend, so hopefully it's
out now where I could grab it.

443
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:05,360
Great here in Chicago. RCA Cola
is synonymous with like your local mom and

444
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:12,480
pop pizza places. They marketed it
well back in the sixties and seventies where

445
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,639
you would buy a pizza at any
local place and you'd get a free one

446
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:22,400
Leader of our C. Is there
like a local alcoholic or not alcoholic beverage

447
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:28,760
that people think of when they think
of pizza. Oh, that's a great

448
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,800
question. Um, I don't.
I didn't know that our C was local

449
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,119
to Chicago. That's fun I don't
know if it's local to Chicago, but

450
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,639
maybe like the distributor here, Yeah, and I think they, you know,

451
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,199
sold it to the pizza places for
next to nothing and they gave away

452
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,159
a one leader, so no matter
where you ordered from, you would generally,

453
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:52,239
you know, you'd order pizza on
a Friday night and get a free

454
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,599
one Leader of our C and that
made people buy it. That's so funny.

455
00:36:57,039 --> 00:37:00,320
Yeah, I don't know. So
I'm I live in Sale, mass

456
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,960
as you mentioned, and we are
lucky enough that our local breweries notch which

457
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,840
specializes in check and German waters.
So that's that's kind of like. What

458
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,000
we'll do is my husband will hit
the brewery on my way home and get

459
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:15,199
a four pack of you know,
their standards their check pills, and that

460
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:20,760
is to me, the platonic ideal
for pizza night. But yeah, what

461
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,199
local spots will say someone's coming to
Salem. Do you recommend any local spots

462
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:30,599
like pizza places or even breweries you
know that people should definitely hit up while

463
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:35,679
they're in town. Yeah, great
question. So we spend a lot of

464
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:38,960
time at Notch and right across the
street there's a great Neapolitan pizza place called

465
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,039
Bambolina. Their Neapolitan pizza is really
good. And then during COVID they started

466
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:49,559
doing this pop up that you can
only order online called Puzuzu, where they

467
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:53,920
say that it's there their take on
like New York style, like East Coast

468
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,400
pizza, and to me, it's
pretty close. So one of our favorite

469
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,360
things to do is grab a pizza, bring it over to Notch and hang

470
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,679
out and have ears. So that's
fun. But if you're in Boston,

471
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:10,239
my favorite pizza locally is Pizza Ea
Regina, which is grown into a regional

472
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,800
chain, but their original location in
the North End, which is Boston's Little

473
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,039
Italy, is so so good and
their their oven is like a bazillion years

474
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:22,639
old. It came over from Italy
their other locations don't have this oven.

475
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,760
The oven is what makes the difference. And like on every table they've got

476
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,920
these you know, like I think
they used to be old wine crafts that

477
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,360
have you like the glass bottles with
the wicker on the bottle. Yeah.

478
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:37,400
Yeah, they've got these bottles with
like hot oil. It's like olive oil.

479
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,639
They've added like hot seeds too,
So I like to dip the crust

480
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:46,320
in that when I'm done with the
pizza. But my aunt moved to Bay.

481
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,480
I grew up in New Jersey.
My aunt moved to Boston, like

482
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:52,440
I mean long before I was born. But my dad when he would come

483
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:57,280
visitor, they would always go to
Regina. And I started dating my husband

484
00:38:57,519 --> 00:39:00,840
at the end of college, and
then a few years after I lived in

485
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,239
Jersey, he was in mass So
I've up and visit a lot of my

486
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,519
dad, but always say, oh, did you guys go to Regina?

487
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,800
Like every trip I took up here. And he passed away slightly before I

488
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,320
moved up here, but every time
I, you know, miss him.

489
00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:15,800
I dragged my husband down into the
city and we go to Regina and get

490
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,519
a pie and it's great. Oh, I'm gonna have to remember that next

491
00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:22,519
time I make a Boston run.
Yeah, let me know when you come,

492
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:23,760
because I'll tell you when to go
stand in line. There's a whole

493
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:30,800
thing, all right. I didn't
know there's rules. There's Yeah, there's

494
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,599
rules. Is it like waiting like
Austin barbecue, like you have to get

495
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:42,039
there specific times or yeah? Kind
of basically if there's if there's a Bruins

496
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,079
Rio Celtics game, you're kind of
out of lock. If you go like

497
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,440
during the game, probably a lot
better, but definitely I'll be trying to

498
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,920
go before. All right, got
it, sounds good. Note I have

499
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,119
that note stored up here. Yeah, yeah, I check the game schedule.

500
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,559
Now you write about the business side
of beer? What trends do you

501
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:07,400
see happening in twenty twenty three?
So one thing that really started happening in

502
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:13,199
late twenty one that really affected things
in twenty two was a change in policy

503
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,719
for Ball, which is the largest
can manufacturer. That caused a lot of

504
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,960
consternation. I'm sure you've heard through
people you've talked to a lot of consternation.

505
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:27,320
They basically made the minimum order quantity
for beer for like independent skews,

506
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,400
you know, like one label of
beer you had to order like just about

507
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:36,719
over a million cans perscue. So
that caused a lot of drama. They've

508
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,159
since they seem to be walking that
back a little bit. It also seems

509
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,920
that cans are getting easier to find, you know, with the pandemic which

510
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,519
forced everybody you know out of bars
and restaurants since picking up beer to go

511
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:51,840
from breweries and buying beer stores to
drink at home, all of the volume

512
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,960
that had been in kegs really went
to cans because bottles really have fallen off

513
00:40:55,039 --> 00:41:00,039
nobody then for a lot of reasons. So that has a lot to do

514
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:04,519
with what we end up seeing,
you know, in market. But let's

515
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:07,880
see what are we seeing happen right
now. I think a lot of breweries

516
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:13,079
are trying to breathe new life into
their flagship beers. You know. We

517
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:15,599
see with you know, we just
talked about Sam and reimagine Boston Lagger.

518
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:22,119
There's that rogue out of Oregon is
expanding their you know, their dead Guy

519
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,440
Maybach is like their their flagship forever. They're going to expand that to an

520
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:31,400
Ipa, which is interesting, and
you know, Fat Tire, Fat Tire,

521
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,679
I was like, I know that
I just wrote about this, Yeah,

522
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,400
fat tire exactly so, which makes
sense because the rotation nation churn and

523
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,239
burn that we've seen over the past
what like half decade, wholesalers are really

524
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:51,039
tired and they don't really you know, things are so trends move so fast

525
00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:55,159
lately that trying to keep on top
of like all these rotating shues is a

526
00:41:55,199 --> 00:42:00,280
lot of work. So it makes
sense to me that I think will be

527
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,920
some pushback came from the middle tier
back to these larger craft brands to say

528
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,960
like, can you just maybe invest
in your flagship a little bit and we'll

529
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,679
see what happens. We've got a
whole new crop of drinkers that are coming

530
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,719
into beer and their way in was
like hard Selter. That's wild to me,

531
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:23,400
So we'll see what happens. You
can really tell that the the little,

532
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:29,800
heavier, thicker bodied beers of the
past or some of them are getting

533
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,360
makeovers, some of them are falling
off, and we'll see hard Selter is

534
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,800
definitely on the down. I don't
think it will go away. I think,

535
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,360
yeah, there's a time and a
place, so we'll see. The

536
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,239
other thing that I'm sure you know
is Spirits based ready to drink cam cocktails.

537
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,440
Those that I don't think their growth
seems to have slowed a little bit,

538
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,239
like you can't keep up triple tog
growth forever. So yeah, no,

539
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,800
yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's
going to drop off a little bit.

540
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,519
But I don't think either selters or
ready to drink or going anywhere.

541
00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:07,679
It's not going to be like Zeema, where all of a sudden two years

542
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,960
later it's gone, yeah exactly.
But I mean, you know, Zema

543
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:15,880
walks however many years ago, so
that white clock could run so so so

544
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,239
that high noon could fly. Here
we are. Yeah, it's you know

545
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,960
even now like grocery stores. Here, an entire grocery store aisle is just

546
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:31,280
devoted to beer and craft beer.
And I didn't see that growing up.

547
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,480
You just had your little cooler with
your Budwise, you're your old style in

548
00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:40,360
Chicago, you know, whatever was
you know, popular than Schlitz and things

549
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,719
like that, it was never like
it was now where you could literally spend

550
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:51,119
a half hour just in the beer
aisle. Oh easily. Yeah, yeah,

551
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:54,280
it's a I think we kind of
hit a point during COVID where people

552
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,920
were just running into stores and running
out that they just grabbed like the first

553
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,840
thing they saw or some in you. And I mean it'd be interesting to

554
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,480
see if we go back to the
days of people, you know, standing

555
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,639
in the beer aisle and taking you
know, ten minutes to decide what they

556
00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:12,159
want to buy. I mean I
still do that sometimes, but I'm a

557
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:15,880
special case. Yeah, well,
jess I really appreciate you coming on.

558
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:22,360
Where can people find you your writing? Yeah, so we are at brewbound

559
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,519
dot com. We do have a
paywall for some stories, but not for

560
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:30,039
all. So if you're interested in
what goes on in the business of beer,

561
00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:34,920
definitely give that a visit. And
our podcast is the Brewbound podcast that

562
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,719
comes out on Thursdays where we get
your podcasts. And I am on Twitter

563
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:43,800
at Jessica and Fante Dave. This
was so fun and now I'm so hungry.

564
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:46,039
Yes, well it's you know,
it's early. It's what eleven twenty

565
00:44:46,039 --> 00:44:50,760
by you ten twenty over here,
And I actually had a piece of cold

566
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,199
pizza for breakfast. So my wife
and I went out for Valentine's Day dinner

567
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,559
last night, so I brought something. I'm like, you know, I

568
00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:00,480
am kind of hungry and I'm going
to be talking pizza, So I had

569
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:06,519
a nice Purshuoto pizza for breakfast this
morning, one of my faves. I

570
00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:08,920
make this great fagin purshute pizza,
and my husband doesn't like it, so

571
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,239
I can only make it when we
have company. So good, excellent.

572
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,480
Well, when I come to Boston, I'll hit you up for a slice.

573
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:22,039
Absolutely all right, Jess, thanks
again. I really appreciate it.

574
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:31,599
I'll talk to you down the road. Okay, thanks, all right,

575
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:37,199
welcome back. New Haven, Connecticut
style pizza is, in my opinion,

576
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:43,119
outstanding. I've only had it here
locally at Peace in Chicago, and I've

577
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,440
been known to knock off a mashed
potato pizza, but I've not had the

578
00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:51,320
real deal from new Haven. Joining
the show now is J. C.

579
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:57,559
Williams. Mister Williams has written pieces
for Cuisine Noir, Wine Enthusiast, and

580
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,320
read October. Jay, thanks for
coming to talk about new Haven pizza.

581
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:05,280
Dave, thanks for having me.
Glad to be here, Glad to talk

582
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,079
about Newhaven pizza anytime. Oh you
know, I'm getting hungry now and now

583
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:13,320
I want to head over to Piece
and grab grab a ma ash potato.

584
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,880
Yeah. Piece is wonderful. Yeah, before we get started on pizza in

585
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,239
the New Haven area. Can you
tell people about yourself? Sure. My

586
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,199
name's as you said, J C. Williams. Most people just call me

587
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,840
Jay Williams. I put the sea
in there because that's my middle initial and

588
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,000
for google reason, so I'm not
confused with multiple basketball players. I'm a

589
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:36,400
writer who also works at a brewery
in Connecticut, brewery called Not Hill,

590
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,920
which is not in New Haven,
but you know, we're still an hour

591
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,039
away from New Haven and whenever the
itch, it's me for a New Haven

592
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:47,039
pizza writer for like two years or
so. I was a copywriter before that.

593
00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:52,199
I'm trying to put together my own
beer and music scene, which is

594
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:57,000
still in it's like it's been in
the infancy infant stages for two years,

595
00:46:57,039 --> 00:47:00,199
so maybe the twenty twenty three year
a half. But yeah, I live

596
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,960
in a normal Connecticut with my lovely
wife, Laylish Lack, and our small

597
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:08,480
dog Pinky and a cat that doesn't
acknowledge me. Oh okay, well cats

598
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:14,880
are like that. Yeah, and
you just mentioned music. And before we

599
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:21,199
go off the rails here, how
do people on your pole yesterday? How

600
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:24,719
did they? How did that many
people vote for cheers and just for those

601
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,480
who are like listening, like,
what the hell is he talking about?

602
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,559
You ran a Twitter poll yesterday what
was the better or the best TV theme

603
00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:38,000
song? Good Times or Cheers?
And I was shocked at like Cheers at

604
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:43,159
the time. I look, was
it like forty five percent? I guess

605
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:45,440
I don't want to say people are
on Cultured, but I'm gonna say people

606
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,719
are on Cultured. I don't know. It's good Times like gets you from

607
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,800
the jump. They come and screaming
good Times. Everybody can get into it.

608
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,199
Cheers this kind of melancholy, and
it's like, if you're really into

609
00:47:54,199 --> 00:47:58,320
Billy Joel, you're probably like,
yeah, this is kind of like piano

610
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,679
man ish, like I can get
out. Yeah. Yeah. So I

611
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:05,000
think there's like has that and it's
more of an nostalgic itch for some people

612
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:10,360
versus Good Times, which is a
superior theme song and a song of overcoming

613
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,840
adversity as opposed to just the guy
whining in a bar a belt like,

614
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,280
oh I wish people knew who I
was. Where my socks are too loose,

615
00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:23,400
I've chapped lips with you know.
Yeah? Why is New Haven Pizza

616
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,119
the best pizza in the country.
It's a great question, people say it's

617
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:31,920
the water for me. It's just
the way there's this like holy trinity of

618
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,719
things that happen, like you have
like the acidity with the tomatoes, you

619
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,320
know, and there's not something crazy, it's just like crushed tomatoes when then

620
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:44,679
meets the cheese. But then it's
all some of its wood fire, some

621
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,960
of its coal fired, some of
its oil fired. But the crust gets

622
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,880
this delightful triar. So you have
this like holy trinity of tomato cheese and

623
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,840
like a little bit of smokiness,
and it just it just sings. It

624
00:48:57,039 --> 00:49:01,440
just sings, and the crust is
always perfect. It's like it's chewy but

625
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:07,360
still has like the crispy edges at
the end. But then like the as

626
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,760
you head towards like the pizza part, it's like so it's like a Doughey

627
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,920
pliableness and heaven. Now from what
I was reading, and I just know,

628
00:49:16,119 --> 00:49:21,519
you know, locally here they don't
use mozzarella on pizza. It's like

629
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:25,639
a Romano cheese. And one thing
I was reading said that you can order

630
00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:30,840
mozzarella, but if people order it
there do they get like the side eye,

631
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:36,360
like what are you doing? You
know? Ordering It's not that strict.

632
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:39,519
It's like when when you order a
pizza. So if you said I'd

633
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:44,760
like one small pizza, they would
just give you a pizza with like a

634
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,800
tomato and then grated romano on it. The would be no mozzarella on it.

635
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:52,400
So you just have to you have
to order a cheese pizza. There's

636
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,519
a word for it. It's like
regular playing or something like that. But

637
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:59,000
like, I would never do that
because I need mozzarella on my pizza most

638
00:49:59,039 --> 00:50:02,440
times. But all right, yeah, it's not like what is it?

639
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:06,320
What do you guys do that?
You guys have the role about Chicago style

640
00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:09,719
hot dogs with right, it's not
like that. Yeah, okay, so

641
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,079
yeah you're not gonna get like shunned
if you order mozzarella on your pizza there

642
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:17,639
right right now, it's not Yeah, it's just another ingre, just another

643
00:50:17,679 --> 00:50:23,960
top in now. The big one
is Frank Pepe's and that's been around for

644
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:30,960
ninety eight years. Is that still
like the go to place for New Haven

645
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:37,119
pizza or are there other spots that
do it as well or better? There

646
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,679
are other spots in New Haven?
So okay, so Frank pepe is like

647
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,280
it's kind of franchised out from all
right, it's just in New Haven anymore.

648
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,239
So like you can get in Massachusetts, you can get it in DC,

649
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:51,079
you can get it in like Yonkers, which is like a city like

650
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,880
north of New York City, but
it's like just outside New York City,

651
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:59,280
so you can get it anywhere,
and it's like if you're coming from out

652
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,519
of town. I personally like Modern
a pizza. It's also called the Beats,

653
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,800
but I don't like saying that because
if I always feel abnress. It's

654
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,199
like when my mother says, like
muzzareil and I'm like, we're not Italian,

655
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,800
we are clearly black. Anyway,
Um, I like Modern better.

656
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,639
I think they just do it better. Frank Pepe did invent the Pepes has

657
00:51:21,639 --> 00:51:23,880
invented the white clam pizza, which
is like in Frank, I believe they

658
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,119
use fresh clams. Modern uses can
clams. Doesn't make a difference to me.

659
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:32,800
I'm not a big seafood guy,
but like that's really good. There's

660
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:37,159
also bar So the big three in
New Haven. In the city New Haven,

661
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:44,559
Sally's, Pepees and Modern And like
Sally's and Pepes, the original Pepees

662
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:47,440
are like one block away from each
other, so like you can hit up

663
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,039
both if you wanted to like give
yourself a little mini pizza tour. Sally's

664
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:57,440
is also good. They got bought
up by like a hospitality group, so

665
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:04,440
they were known for a surly service. It nicely and I'm probably still that

666
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,800
I would really give you the full
picture. Like they didn't I don't want

667
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,719
to swear, but like they did
not care whether they didn't care if you

668
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,400
had or didn't either, if you'd
been waiting in the rain, whatever.

669
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,880
But now that they've kind of like
under if I have a hospitality group,

670
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:22,800
so there is hospitality, you know, if they're much nicer. They've also

671
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,880
started expanding out so that one's really
good. Then there's Bar, which is

672
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,719
where the mashed potato pizza comes from. I think that's I don't know if

673
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,159
Peace somebody from Peace went to Bar, but they are very similar. It's

674
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:38,840
like they're both group pubs. They
both have a mashed potato pie. Yeah,

675
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,199
those are the ones to look for. Then there are smaller ones and

676
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,559
the like kind of in the suburbs
of New Haven that are just like there's

677
00:52:45,559 --> 00:52:52,920
a roseland some parties which are good, but like I would say start with

678
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,679
the like Core three and then spread
out. If you're going to visit New

679
00:52:55,679 --> 00:53:00,559
Haven and eat pizza, now you
mean the clams on the pizza, we

680
00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:08,320
talk mashed potato. Are there any
other like toppings that are unique to the

681
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:14,519
area, because I've never heard of
either of those until like I went to

682
00:53:14,599 --> 00:53:19,559
Peace. Yeah. I think the
clam has to do with help me out

683
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:22,679
here, I'm not religious, lent
or you know where you can't. Yeah,

684
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,760
yeah, so I think that's I
believe that's the story. That's how

685
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,440
that got worked into becoming a topping. They also do like a fresh tomato

686
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:35,800
pie in the Summerer Peppies, where
it's just like whatever, the fresh local

687
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:43,559
tomatoes and then nope, no cheese
or just the graded the graded yea um.

688
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,679
But nothing really is super unique in
terms of toppings. That's still all

689
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,360
the same. Occasionally there's like,
you know, some of them, I'm

690
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,159
not sure you use like local sausage
all right, but it's still your basic

691
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:00,000
you know, sausage, pepperoni or
yeah, yeah, the ball like onions

692
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:04,320
or mushrooms or anchovies. Yeah,
yeah, nothing wild, not like oh

693
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,159
this is made with like whale belly
or anything. Now it's just yeah,

694
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:15,800
it's ingredients here in Chicago, Our
Sea Coola was known and they're still known

695
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:21,840
for it's synonymous with local pizza when
you call for pizza a local like mom

696
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:27,440
and pop place. They had deals
worked out in the sixties and seventies where

697
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,039
Our Seat cut the place. As
a deal you would get a free one

698
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:37,000
leader bottle of Our Sea, which
made you want to go drink Our Sea

699
00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:40,559
when you were done eating it is
there like a local beverage, whether it's

700
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:45,280
a beer or soda pop that is
synonymous with pizza. In New Haven,

701
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,880
yeah, there's a local soda company
and I think East Haven, which is

702
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,000
as it sounds east of New Haven, or they're in North Have I'm not

703
00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:57,280
sure. It's called Fox and Park. And so they just make a variety

704
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,519
of like kind of like the classic
fla. It's like great Birch beer,

705
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:07,719
ginger light cream soda like I think
they have a cola, but it's like,

706
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,639
you know, it's good, it's
nothing. I don't drink a lot

707
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:15,079
of soda anymore, not like when
I was a kid. I usually just

708
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:19,280
have I'll usually just have a beer
or a seltzer maybe if I'm get eating

709
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,119
pizza. A couple breweries did have
collabbed with pizza places to make like,

710
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,760
oh, we're gonna make a special
like Italian pills near to go with your

711
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,800
pizza. And I was like,
that was really smart and hopefully someone got

712
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:36,079
some free pizza out of it.
I remember here and Walter Payton, before

713
00:55:36,119 --> 00:55:40,599
he died, had a bruppub in
Aurora and they were really good. They

714
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:46,679
won some metals and they had it
was a pizza flavored beer and there was

715
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:52,159
a reganel and other stuff in it, and it was like kind of bizarre,

716
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,400
but you know, that was a
great brewpub here, and it was

717
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,719
like, well, it's pretty innovative. I think I saw the recipe for

718
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:05,079
that, and like the Charlie Papasian
Homebrewing book, I remember saying, a

719
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,760
tomato, I think it's tomato like
a regno basil. Maybe it's a like

720
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,840
an ale of some sort. And
I was like, oh, that's interesting.

721
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:15,360
I would never try to make that, but I'm glad someone's thinking outside

722
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:21,639
the box. You know. Yeah. I mean that was probably easily twenty

723
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,920
years ago, so that was before
the big you know, boom and everything.

724
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,920
But I remember going to like Walter
Payton's all the time. He was

725
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,599
a little farther away. But the
beers were good, good place to like

726
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,039
hang out, good food. But
I'm like, all right, yeah,

727
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:38,440
they're thinking it's yeah, something different. Yeah sounds all right. I would

728
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:45,039
drink that, why not? Oh
yeah. Outside of the places that you

729
00:56:45,159 --> 00:56:50,920
mentioned, and you mentioned quite a
few places for pizza, what other spots,

730
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,679
like what brewery should they go to
beside your own which you know breweries

731
00:56:54,719 --> 00:57:00,719
are there that maybe he's not distributed
all around that you think people should hit

732
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,360
up when they go to New Haven. I mean if you go to bar,

733
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,719
they have a brewpub there, so
it's right there. So I mean

734
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:13,280
that's the thing you can do.
There's also a place like like thirty minutes

735
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:19,199
out in Bridgeport, Connecticut called Brewport
and it's a similar concept where pizza beer.

736
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,599
There's New England Brewing Company that's really
good. That's like in Woodbridge,

737
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:29,679
which is just north of the city
of New Haven, and then Counterweight but

738
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,360
they used to be closer but now
they are like an hourish from the city.

739
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,480
So yeah, those are good spots
that are in the New Haven area

740
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,400
if you're in town and looking for
something to do and have a drink after

741
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:45,239
you eat your pizza. Before like
we did this, you mentioned going back

742
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:52,239
and forth on Twitter that you enjoyed
peace. How do you think it stands

743
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,960
up to New Haven or if you
had to pick one or the other,

744
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:00,559
you're staying local. I mean,
I think pizza is very good. I

745
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,440
it's a little different. I want
to say they used like cornmeal or something

746
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:07,880
like on the like on the bottom
of their pizza. It's good. It's

747
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:12,840
just you know, that's the one
thing that you know, it was nice

748
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,960
to them not to do a complete
copy of all to who you have pizza

749
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,760
put your own spinet, but I
think piece is great. And then you

750
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,920
can get the hot dogs sausage I
got, and I like, I went

751
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,000
to hot dogs like it's gotta be
like ten years ago at this point,

752
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:28,480
and I was like this stood in
line for an hour and a Friday,

753
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,559
I almost died as with one of
my best friends. I thought he was

754
00:58:30,599 --> 00:58:35,440
gonna stop being my best friend because
I did go wait an hour. No,

755
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:37,880
it was like had to be like
three hours for like it was the

756
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,360
Fridays where they had like the duck
fat fries, so there was like one

757
00:58:42,599 --> 00:58:45,079
block. But yeah, so that
was like an awesome time. And yeah,

758
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:52,199
last I think had to be eight
years ago, No, four or

759
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:54,719
five years ago that I went to
Peace. Like I got to Chicago,

760
00:58:55,440 --> 00:59:00,280
got like, took the train from
the airport, went straight to Peace and

761
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,599
I was like, yep, this
is good. They did it right.

762
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,360
But yeah, last time I was
in Chicago, I said, I didn't

763
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,000
get to try Tavern cut because I
hear that's what the real locals eat,

764
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,000
tavern cut pizza. I lose,
you knock that off my bucket list because

765
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,559
I've had Deep Dish from somewhere and
it was I want to say it was

766
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:21,559
who knows, And I know,
I'm sure I went to the wrong it

767
00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:23,880
wasn't. I'm sure everyone's gonna say
that's the wrong place you should have gone

768
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,639
to. People say pe Quads,
But like, it's fine, I'll get

769
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:30,639
to Deep Dish when I get to
it. But Tavern kind of feel like

770
00:59:30,639 --> 00:59:35,440
I should try. Yeah, No, that's yeah, that's a must.

771
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:38,280
And there's so many good spots,
you know, and they're all like local

772
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,119
mom and pop. So no matter
what neighborhood you you're in, you're going

773
00:59:44,199 --> 00:59:47,159
to find a good place that most
people don't know about unless they live in

774
00:59:47,199 --> 00:59:51,159
that neighborhood, right, Okay,
Yeah, that's pretty cool. I didn't

775
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:55,440
know it so widely available. Like, yeah, I think most neighborhoods in

776
00:59:55,559 --> 01:00:00,599
Chicago have, you know, their
little local mom and pop place that you

777
01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:04,920
could either go to or you could
like what I did growing up in my

778
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,440
family. We just called and they
delivered and it was just a little independent

779
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:15,159
place and it was always great.
Nice. Well, Jay, I appreciate

780
01:00:15,199 --> 01:00:19,679
you coming on talking about New Haven
Pizza. Where could people find you and

781
01:00:19,719 --> 01:00:23,519
find your work? You can just
follow me on at Shot of Insolence on

782
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:27,719
Twitter. That's usually where I am, even though Twitter seems to be trying

783
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:31,320
to die lately. But I'll probably
just still be there on the deck of

784
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,639
the ship as it sinks because I've
made a lot of good friends there and

785
01:00:35,639 --> 01:00:38,960
I've had a lot of fun conversations. Might as well go down swinging.

786
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:44,920
Yeah, absolutely, well on the
link in the show notes. So if

787
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,280
you want to find Jay on Twitter
or if you're heading to New Haven,

788
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,519
ask him a question about, you
know, pizza or whatever. But no,

789
01:00:51,719 --> 01:00:53,880
Jay, I really appreciate you coming
on. Thanks so much for talking

790
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:58,760
new Haven Pizza. Yeah, thanks
for having me again. I'm always happy

791
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:04,480
to talk about pizza. And is
happy to talk about pizza. Yeah,

792
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:07,039
all right, take care, we'll
see it on the road. All right.

793
01:01:07,039 --> 01:01:20,280
Thanks. I'm happy to have back
on the show, Floyd Freeman,

794
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:25,159
and we're going to talk about pizza
from the great state of Pennsylvania. Floyd,

795
01:01:25,239 --> 01:01:29,079
thanks for coming back, brother,
Thanks Steve, I'm happy to be

796
01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:31,039
here. Man. Hey, before
we get started, you know, it's

797
01:01:31,039 --> 01:01:35,400
a beer show, so we've got
to talk about beer first. I'm having

798
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,159
a beer that you did with Pizza
Boy. This is the New England IPA.

799
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,840
This one is really good. Can
you tell folks about this beer?

800
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:50,960
Yeah. So we've been doing this
one for a few years with Pizza Boy

801
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,719
and usually about once a year.
Sometimes it's been times a year. We

802
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,639
kind of switch it up a little
bit each time. This time it's heavy

803
01:02:00,639 --> 01:02:07,079
with citron mosaic, lots of oats. Yeah, we're going for the oat

804
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:10,559
bomb kind of thing, like New
England style. So it's a lot of

805
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:15,119
fun. Our buddy Garrett Does did
the artwork on the label back in twenty

806
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:20,440
one, so we just used it
again for this one. The label was

807
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:23,519
rotating as well, but we love
this one. He did originals for us

808
01:02:23,559 --> 01:02:27,760
too, Like there's one hanging on
my wall and everything. I'm like really

809
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,039
happy with this can label. Yeah, no, that's really cool. And

810
01:02:30,119 --> 01:02:35,719
the beer itself really good. I
get like it. Maybe it's just me,

811
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,599
but I get like a lot of
white grapefruit here really got a good

812
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:44,000
citrusy flavor. Yeah, absolutely,
that's I mean, I like, I

813
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:47,679
definitely lean towards the citrusy flavor when
it comes to the IPA. So it

814
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,079
was what we were looking for,
and it's fun. We'll tweak it again

815
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:54,719
next time. It's always gonna be
a little bit different, Okay. Pizza

816
01:02:54,840 --> 01:03:00,920
in the state of Pennsylvania, it
seems like there's two spots. There's Philadelphia

817
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:07,840
which has a Tomato Pie and Old
Forge, and they have like it looks

818
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,239
like, from what I've read,
like a couple different, like a red

819
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,480
pie and a white pie. Do
you have a preference of like which one

820
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:19,800
you like or is it just whatever
one's in front of you that time.

821
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:23,199
Well, I mean, there's never
a bad pizza, right unless you're in

822
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:29,760
California trying to eat a New York
style no offense. But I lived in

823
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,000
San Diego and I can remember trying
to New York pie. There. They

824
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:37,119
do their own style, which is
amazing in California. But but yeah,

825
01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:43,440
so I honestly like hand toss styles
and might go to that's really the common

826
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,840
one here in the Harrisburg region,
so I'm about. Old Forge is about

827
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,159
two hours north of me, and
then Philly an hour and a half east

828
01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:55,679
of me. In Philly, lots
of hand toss. There's lots of square

829
01:03:55,719 --> 01:04:00,599
pizza too, so that's really catching
on. One are the ones that I

830
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:04,280
really loved down there are Santuccis Um. They're actually a franchise at this point,

831
01:04:04,719 --> 01:04:08,599
but the family from what I was
reading, the family still has a

832
01:04:08,679 --> 01:04:12,800
hand in the shops and will even
be at the shops on occasion um.

833
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,880
And I'm happy that they are opening
one here in the right by me,

834
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,559
so I'm excited for that. That's
square pizza, and it's it's got the

835
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,719
cheese on the bottom with a sauce
on top, So that's the Santatuci style,

836
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:32,280
and then the pizza an Old Forge. Apparently there's like ten to twelve

837
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:38,320
of these shops in this little town. And they don't they call it what

838
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,280
do they call it, treys Treys
I believed hies. They call it a

839
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,840
pizza Trey um, and then it's
a little bit thinner. It's crispy on

840
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,440
the bottom, chewing in the middle
um. And they sometimes they'll use like

841
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:56,840
a blended cheese like mazzarella, even
maybe American or cheddar one that I grew

842
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,480
up with, and that that's from
like the Wilkes Barry Areas, that's close

843
01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:04,039
to Old Forge. It's called in
our domes. And it came in a

844
01:05:04,039 --> 01:05:09,199
box in the refrigerated section. It
wasn't frozen, and it was two sections

845
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:14,320
above the square pizza. And you
know, you'd either bake it or if

846
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:15,639
it's two in the morning, you
just throw it in the microwave and it's

847
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:21,880
delicious either way. Now, like
I was reading about like the white Pizza,

848
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:27,039
and it said like that's kind of
a cross between garlic bread and a

849
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:30,639
kale zone. Yeah, it sounds
I honestly, I'm sorry to say it.

850
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:33,480
I've never had the white pizza,
the version of the Old Forge.

851
01:05:33,559 --> 01:05:38,679
I've never had it. It just
doesn't sound like if I'm eating pizza,

852
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:42,920
I want the sauces like it sound. Yeah, it's like a sandwich like

853
01:05:43,119 --> 01:05:47,599
sandwiched in right? Is that what
I'm not familiar with it? I I

854
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:51,280
can't say, I've never been to
an old Forged pizza shop up there.

855
01:05:51,599 --> 01:05:57,679
We do have one down here called
Jigsies, and it's people from Old Forge

856
01:05:57,719 --> 01:06:00,519
that moved down to the Harris Bagelia
and open up this shop. But I

857
01:06:00,639 --> 01:06:04,559
only eat the red version because it
wasn't like it wasn't like I was going

858
01:06:04,599 --> 01:06:09,280
there every week. So you know, I just want the red. I

859
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:15,039
want the red sauce. You Yeah, not the Philadelphia style. Now that's

860
01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:20,119
like a tomato pie. And I
was reading it doesn't have or it rarely

861
01:06:20,239 --> 01:06:25,960
has cheese on it. What's like
that Philadelphia style? Like? Yeah,

862
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,920
so sometimes I sometimes it has like
a parmesan maybe sprinkled on it. Um.

863
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:35,400
But yeah, like just square pizza
with the tomato sauce. Um.

864
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:40,039
I mean you you they have it
around here as well. Um. Alsa

865
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:45,159
Hampton Pizza Boy as the version of
it. Most shops have that version.

866
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:47,559
I don't know how popular it is, but I know, you know from

867
01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:50,960
what I heard I just actually from
the beer distributor I go to here locally.

868
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:55,920
He was talking about how he just
got the the smato pie at Alsa

869
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,880
Hampton and said how good it was. Um, I don't recall ever having

870
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,400
it down to Philly. Honestly,
I'm sorry. I like I've had Like

871
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,480
it's usually the hand toss that I
get down there, or like I said,

872
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,920
the square style at Santato Cheese.
Another spot I like down there in

873
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:15,280
media outside of Philly is called pinocchios
Um and they have a killer beer.

874
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:23,239
Lists always have Cliny on draft,
you know, any Russian usually have any

875
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:28,280
stuff from Russian River on draft.
Is even like the other half and and

876
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:30,760
then half acre, you know from
your area, even with half acre,

877
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,440
like you probably have those beers on
draft there. Oh, I'm gonna have

878
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:39,480
to make a trip. That sounds
good. Yeah, it's a great Russian

879
01:07:39,599 --> 01:07:42,559
River gets out to you. But
they don't hit here in Chicago. Oh

880
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,599
yeah, right on the way.
Yeah, Phillies had Russian River. I

881
01:07:46,599 --> 01:07:53,119
think Philly was the first market outside
of California that Russian River sent beer to.

882
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,159
And a lot of that I think, well not a lot of it.

883
01:07:56,159 --> 01:08:00,280
It has to do with monks,
Yeah, the monks, so they're

884
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,599
friends. Vinny and the guys at
monks or friends, and he would bring

885
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:08,559
the beer down and that's that was
kind of like the first time that like

886
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,239
Hill Farmstead or even like the Alchemist
was sent down here. It was because

887
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:16,479
the Monks. It seems like that's
a huge reason and Phillies just had to.

888
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:20,000
It's always been a huge part of
the craft beer scene. Like you

889
01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:23,760
know, way back in the day
before it was cool, there was you

890
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:29,439
know, Monks was there. How
far is Monks away from like Citizens Bank

891
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:34,760
or the Link any place like that, Right in Center City? Okay,

892
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:39,760
So it's not a bad ride from
there. Like I I like to stay,

893
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,479
we always stay at Center City right
in the Rittenhouse Square area. Um,

894
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:47,119
there's lots of nice hotels. It's
a really nice area with some high

895
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:50,680
end it's a higher end spot.
There's lots of good good lots of good

896
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,520
restaurants there. And then Monks just
sits there. It's it's it's about a

897
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,760
block and a half from the hotel
that we like to stay at, which

898
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:02,319
is a Hiatt, and then we
usually just jump in an uber and roll

899
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:06,640
down from there down to the down
to the games. Um sits right off

900
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,439
broad It's like a block off Road
Street, So you just roll down broad

901
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,560
About. Yeah, I don't know, maybe it's like three miles yeah,

902
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,880
on Broad Street stadiums. Yeah,
but it's not a bad uber ride.

903
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,960
Just take that and go to the
game. So it's good. Yeah,

904
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:24,640
it's always entertaining to the ride down
there, especially after you have a few

905
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:30,640
blinies and you yeah, you're good. Well, I know you're a huge

906
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,800
Philly fan. You're a Phillies fan. What's the outlook this year? What

907
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,880
do you what do you think in
this year for the Phillies. Well,

908
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:42,520
I it's not typical of a Philadelphia
fan to be positive, but you know,

909
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:46,880
I know, um, you know, I I think they're starting pitching

910
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,000
is gonna be all right. It's
a tough division. Man that at the

911
01:09:50,119 --> 01:09:55,840
least with the Braves and the Mets
like it's stacked. So I want to

912
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,520
be surprised if all three go to
the playoffs. You know, it's it's

913
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,720
gonna be a interesting I'm I'm actually
have some confidence in the Sixers this year

914
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:08,479
because I didn't really expect anything out
of them. Yeah, well, you

915
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:14,359
know, Harden and uh Bead and
Maxie or if they can keep bonding here

916
01:10:15,079 --> 01:10:17,439
should be interesting. We just need
to get it. That team just needs

917
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,560
to get out of the second round. Yeah, they need they need to

918
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:26,560
get to the to the conference championship
and then anything can happen. I just

919
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,319
don't like I just don't like the
Boston matchup because Boston just always kicks the

920
01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:33,920
shit out of the Sixers. I
don't know what it is, and of

921
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:39,199
all cities, it has to be
Boston. The Boston team. Yeah,

922
01:10:39,359 --> 01:10:43,000
that Phillies thing was a surprise though, I was a huge surprise. I

923
01:10:43,039 --> 01:10:47,600
did not expect that team was not
looking good. Oh yeah a Memorial Day.

924
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,319
They looked like dead in the water. Yeah. And then the Cubs,

925
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,560
wasn't it. Right after the All
Star Break the Cubs swept them?

926
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,439
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's
like come on, yeah, I can't

927
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,199
I can't eat the Cubs. But
you know, it's like, come on,

928
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,600
man, those guys, you can't
beat the Cubs. You don't deserve

929
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:08,600
to, you know, you don't
deserve to get to the playoffs at this

930
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:14,199
point. But I had no expectations. So really feel fortunate and lucky that

931
01:11:14,279 --> 01:11:18,479
I was there at then All DS
Game three against the Braves where Reese Hotskins

932
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:23,239
hit the home run and spiked to
the bat, And then was there for

933
01:11:24,119 --> 01:11:29,520
and i'll cs Game five when Harper
hit the home run and Bob the eighth

934
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:33,039
in the World Series. So I
picked the right games, and It'll never

935
01:11:33,079 --> 01:11:36,319
happen again in my life. I
guarantee it. Nothing like that will ever

936
01:11:36,359 --> 01:11:41,279
happen again, especially with Philly sports
because it's you know, you've got to

937
01:11:41,279 --> 01:11:45,039
be pessimistic. I'm used to that
being here in Chicago. So but definitely,

938
01:11:45,119 --> 01:11:47,640
Yeah, we're gonna hook up later
this year. We're gonna go see

939
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:51,560
a Cub Philly game together this year. Yes, absolutely, yeah, and

940
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:56,039
June we're gonna go. Man,
I'm so excited for it. It's been

941
01:11:56,039 --> 01:12:00,439
on my bucket list forever and I'm
finally gonna make it happened. The families

942
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:04,399
psyched like we're we're pumped for it. Um, So we definitely are gonna

943
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:08,119
get together. You're gonna show You're
gonna show me some spots to get some

944
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:11,680
beers. Oh yeah, allowed to
get some deep dish since we're talking about

945
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,359
pizza, are we allow? Yeah? Well, well we'll hit a few

946
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:16,159
spots, we'll get a deep dish
and then we'll get a tavern cut.

947
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:19,960
I'm sure you've got more than one
pizza in you for the trip, all

948
01:12:20,039 --> 01:12:24,760
right? So and what so can
you tell me? Do you guys hit

949
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,439
up the big that you guys hit
up the deep dish spots, right,

950
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,439
it's not a tourist thing. It's
not like you know, there's there's tourist

951
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,560
spots. You know, you talk
about Pats of Genos in Philly, Like

952
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:39,760
nobody wants to go there for Philly
to get a cheese steak. You know,

953
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,520
they're not the best in the city
and they're tourist traps. So is

954
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,000
that kind of the same deal with
pizza like the Deep Dish in Chicago?

955
01:12:46,119 --> 01:12:49,399
Like, are there are there spots
that are better than others and spots that

956
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:54,800
are average and tourist traps? Yes, they are. You know, I

957
01:12:55,079 --> 01:12:59,520
don't want to dish anybody if somebody
likes a particular brand or restaurant, he

958
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,079
got less. You said that about
Passagenos, but everybody for everything. It's

959
01:13:03,119 --> 01:13:06,840
like well known that people say that
now. But I'll take you to some

960
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:12,560
good spots. But for like the
Thin Crust, it's mostly like your mom

961
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,800
and pop, small neighborhood places that
you know, for me are the best.

962
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,439
They just you know, knock it
out the deep dish. There's some

963
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:27,399
local chains that will hit up,
but like Thin Crossed for here, in

964
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:32,479
my opinion, your local little just
like neighborhood joint is usually bad. Yeah,

965
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:39,039
that's um, that's I prefer like, well, it's hard for me

966
01:13:39,039 --> 01:13:43,000
to say because I do love the
Square pizza, like the Thickert Square pizza

967
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,399
from like the Santo Cheese, which
I mentioned earlier. But I mean when

968
01:13:46,399 --> 01:13:49,600
I was younger and like a teenager
going down to Philly, like, there's

969
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:54,119
a spot called Lorenzo and Sons on
South Street. I had a buddy who

970
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:57,640
lived right on South Street. So
this was like, if you're not familiar

971
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,960
with South Street, it was like
the hub of like colterculture, and you

972
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:05,319
know, there's like cool shops and
bars and restaurants and you know, punk

973
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:09,079
rock stores, record scores, that
kind of thing. It's a lot more

974
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:13,119
commercial now. That was the spot
to hang out. And he literally lived

975
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:15,720
right in the middle of it on
South Street. And what you would do

976
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:20,000
after the bars let out that too, You'd go over to Lorenzo and Sons

977
01:14:20,119 --> 01:14:24,079
and get slices. And they only
sold cheese. That was it. Just

978
01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:28,279
cheese slices that were bigger than your
face. And you just obviously you roll

979
01:14:28,359 --> 01:14:30,600
that ship, you roll it up, you fold it, and that was

980
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,920
your hangover here. That was what
your fed your face with. And it

981
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:39,239
was so delicious, but I don't
think it gets the respect anymore that it

982
01:14:39,399 --> 01:14:42,920
used to, or it's kind of
more like a touristy thing. Yeah,

983
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,319
and I haven't they used to have. There were other there are other locations

984
01:14:47,319 --> 01:14:51,199
with Lorenzo and Sons too. Now
it's I don't know if it's franchised or

985
01:14:51,239 --> 01:14:56,800
not, but you could even get
it at Wells Fargo like a Sixers game.

986
01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:59,520
Okay, I don't know if they're
still there, because when I was

987
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,039
at a game a few weeks ago, I saw pizza, but it wasn't

988
01:15:01,119 --> 01:15:06,039
Lorenzo and Sons. But you know
that paper thin bigger than your face,

989
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:13,199
just like amazing. You know that
buttery, greasy mozzarella that like makes it

990
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,800
like just the grease puddles, and
you know it just makes the pizza so

991
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,720
much better. Yeah, and you
make sure you're not wearing the white jersey

992
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:25,720
that day, so in case,
Yeah, yep, all right, well,

993
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,319
Floyd, thanks for coming on,
brother. I appreciate it. Floyd

994
01:15:29,399 --> 01:15:33,239
your go to guy in Pennsylvania when
it comes to beer pizza. I'll include

995
01:15:33,239 --> 01:15:39,920
his handle on social media. So
if you're going to Philadelphia or Harrisburg and

996
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,800
you have a question about a spot, Definitely ask Floyd because he'll set you

997
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:45,760
straight. Floyd. Thanks again,
brother, I'll talk to you later and

998
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,560
I'll definitely see you Wrigley this year. You're welcome, Dave, thanks for

999
01:15:49,600 --> 01:16:01,479
having me. Man. All right, all right, welcome back. Now

1000
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:08,239
we're going to talk Detroit pizza.
Detroit style pizza is rectangular with a thick

1001
01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:13,640
crust that is crispy and chewy.
It is often called Sicilian style. It's

1002
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:18,079
traditionally topped with the Wisconsin brick cheese
that goes all the way to the edges

1003
01:16:18,319 --> 01:16:26,319
and caramelizes against the high sided,
heavyweight rectangular pan. This style of pizza

1004
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:32,039
was originally baked in rectangular steel trays
designed for use in the automotive industry.

1005
01:16:32,319 --> 01:16:39,039
It was developed in nineteen forty six
at Buddy's Rendezvous and Detroit, before spreading

1006
01:16:39,039 --> 01:16:44,239
to other parts of the United States. You could find Detroit style pizza everywhere.

1007
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,880
Back on the show now is Russ
Robinson. He's been on the show

1008
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:51,880
quite a few times. He's a
Detroit native. He's with infectious groove music

1009
01:16:53,199 --> 01:16:56,159
and we're going to talk Detroit pizza. Ross. Thanks for coming on,

1010
01:16:56,239 --> 01:17:00,239
brother. How's everything it's going it's
going. I'm always happy to be here

1011
01:17:00,279 --> 01:17:03,600
and this. I believe this is
going to end up being a controversial segment

1012
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:09,039
because I'm the Detroit guy representing the
Detroit Pizza Talk and I have opinions that

1013
01:17:09,119 --> 01:17:14,279
friends from my Detroit the Detroit area
have told me are wrong. So but

1014
01:17:14,399 --> 01:17:15,920
I'm I was the one to ask
to speak on this, not them,

1015
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,439
So all right, there you go. Yes you're on there. So you

1016
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:24,760
know, any Michigan downloads that I
lose, I will, you know,

1017
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,920
blame for this. Yeah, place
to blame for that, squarely on my

1018
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:32,239
shoulders. Sounds good for people that
aren't familiar with you or haven't listened to

1019
01:17:32,279 --> 01:17:35,439
the show in a while. Could
you tell everyone about Infectious Groove Music and

1020
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:40,640
yourself? Yeah? Yeah, So
we have two different arms of the program

1021
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,520
that we put out currently, around
the time that this episode is being published,

1022
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,079
we still will have a weekly music
podcast that comes out every Monday.

1023
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:54,960
If you're listening to this after about
May of twenty twenty three, the podcast

1024
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:59,960
itself will have been discontinued, but
you can still subscribe on any podcast play

1025
01:18:00,159 --> 01:18:02,359
form, and there will at that
time there will be at least one hundred

1026
01:18:02,359 --> 01:18:09,000
and seventy plus episodes available, so
there's plenty out there. And then halfway

1027
01:18:09,039 --> 01:18:13,239
through our podcast, we started a
YouTube channel where we put out like three

1028
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,319
videos a week that are very quick
hitting, like five ten minute videos instead

1029
01:18:16,359 --> 01:18:23,039
of like our long form like the
podcast is and the extremely short version is.

1030
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:29,520
I personally am tired of the whole
world running on sensational clicks, you

1031
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:33,520
know, overrated, this fail that
worst ever, so we don't do that.

1032
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:38,760
We talk about bands that we think
are underrated or that more people should

1033
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:43,800
hear, or that could that you
maybe not have even heard of yet.

1034
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:46,800
And you know, there's plenty of
stuff out there that we don't like and

1035
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,359
hardest we don't like in songs we
don't like, we just don't talk about

1036
01:18:50,399 --> 01:18:55,439
those, which, you know,
talk about the bands that we do like

1037
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:58,079
and us songs that we do like
and if other people like that, too

1038
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,840
cool. We do an amount of
commentary as well, things going on in

1039
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:04,600
the music world or whatever else.
So but it's real fun for us to

1040
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:10,520
just try and put more positive content
out there than I could run a show

1041
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,119
all day with artists I think are
overrated. I'd rather talk about underrated.

1042
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,399
It's almost like your show should be
called band in front, right, yeah,

1043
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,920
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Back to pizza, what I noticed

1044
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:30,000
and my experience with Detroit Sype style
pizza is just from the National Change Jets.

1045
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:35,279
But to me, that's almost like
it's thicker than your traditional thin crush

1046
01:19:35,319 --> 01:19:41,560
pizza. It's almost like a facatio
bread. Yeah. So there's two types

1047
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,399
of pizza that are busted way outside
of Detroit that I feel, at least

1048
01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:50,079
the one of them represents Detroit pizza
way better than the actual brand that you're

1049
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:53,479
supposed to go to Detroit to get, which is the one you mentioned,

1050
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:58,920
Buddies Jets, which is on nearly
every corner in America. Now, I

1051
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:03,399
think je is a really really good
example of what like if you just live

1052
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:05,720
like now, I've moved out of
Detroit. I live in the South.

1053
01:20:06,119 --> 01:20:09,600
If I were going to take any
of my friends from here and go,

1054
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:11,960
hey, let me show you what
is supposed to be Detroit pizza, I

1055
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,680
would all day long. I would
have them eat Jets, and I think

1056
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:17,920
that would be suffice. And then
the other is the Little Caesar's brand,

1057
01:20:18,039 --> 01:20:20,840
And I'm not talking about the five
dollars hunting ready, you know, round

1058
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:28,079
piece of cardboard, if you get
a like they do the same thing as

1059
01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:30,439
Jets. They have like two square
pizzas where the cheese goes to the edge.

1060
01:20:31,359 --> 01:20:34,560
You can get that from them,
and that's not a bad representation of

1061
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,359
Detroit pizza anyways. So you know, you can get either one of those

1062
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:45,199
nationwide. But yeah, it's Jets
is probably a little lighter crust like dope

1063
01:20:45,279 --> 01:20:48,840
on the crust than Little Caesars is
a Little Caesars is a little more dense.

1064
01:20:49,359 --> 01:20:53,119
But my big issue, and this
is the thing where you know,

1065
01:20:53,119 --> 01:20:56,520
people from Detroit are probably gonna be
upset. I personally, my whole life,

1066
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,439
I've never, like, it seems
like only in the last five or

1067
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:03,600
ten years have people started to refer
to it as Detroit style pizza. Like

1068
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:09,560
I've never growing up in Detroit,
no whatever, called it Detroit style pizza.

1069
01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:14,680
Yea. And to me, for
something to be from a city or

1070
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:15,680
a region or whatever, it,
I mean, it's got to have its

1071
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,840
roots there, right. And I
get that what you said about the Buddies

1072
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:24,039
pizza being originally put together with like
the pants that were meant for auto parts,

1073
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:29,239
But I mean that it's not an
invention of the style of pizza like

1074
01:21:29,319 --> 01:21:33,000
that came over from Sicily and they
just kind of worked it a little different.

1075
01:21:33,399 --> 01:21:35,920
So they, like I said,
when I grew up, no one

1076
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:42,399
ever called like we knew Buddies was
a local restaurant, but no one ever

1077
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,720
called it like Detroit style. It
was just pizza. Yeah, it just

1078
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,479
pizza. You know. It'd be
like if you were from Minneapolis, like

1079
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:53,239
you you're not like, oh,
Target is a Minneapolis style store just because

1080
01:21:53,239 --> 01:21:57,000
they're based there, you know what
I mean, Like you don't so And

1081
01:21:57,039 --> 01:22:00,640
that's the other thing too. I've
had Buddies a total of like three times

1082
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,199
in my life. And I may
may I might be user error, but

1083
01:22:03,279 --> 01:22:10,680
I do you remember about a year
or two ago when Pizza Hut tried to

1084
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:15,640
market a Detroit style pizza. I
remember it. I didn't have it because

1085
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:20,960
here in the city Chicago proper,
we don't have national pizza chains. We

1086
01:22:21,039 --> 01:22:26,239
have like one or two Dominoes,
there's a couple, there's probably more Jets

1087
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,800
than anything in the city proper.
So I remember them doing it, but

1088
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:32,920
I never had it. And the
big deal with it was it failed real

1089
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:36,319
hard. Like it was on social
media right, everybody was like making memes

1090
01:22:36,359 --> 01:22:40,640
about it and stuff. Well,
what they did was they modeled it after

1091
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:44,000
Buddies. Okay, so it's like, well, yep, then that,

1092
01:22:44,039 --> 01:22:47,000
to me is the entire nation telling
everyone that Buddies isn't as good as people

1093
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:50,199
say it is. You know,
like because they were friends of mine that

1094
01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:53,680
were like, dude, I thought
Jets was Detroit. You know, friends

1095
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,680
of mine across the country were like, I thought Jets was detroitell pizza I

1096
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:58,840
Sea. Well, They're like,
well, why is the sauce kind of

1097
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:00,800
on top with the Pizza Hut thing
like that's not right? And I'm like,

1098
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,439
yeah, I know, that's because
that's how Buddies, like Buddies does

1099
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:10,399
because Chicago, which by the way, is a real pizza style, is

1100
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:15,800
known for having the sauce all on
top. Eat Okay, what Buddies does

1101
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,159
is they'll put cheese and everything on
there, and then they put two giant

1102
01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:25,399
strips of way too much sauce across
the rectangle. And that's supposedly Detroit style

1103
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:30,039
pizza. And that's what Pizza Hut
did. And then it failed when that

1104
01:23:30,399 --> 01:23:34,399
like bakes, does it spread out
or is it just those two racing stripes

1105
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:38,600
there in the middle. If you
get an edge piece. You're just eating

1106
01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:44,399
cheese and bread. Okay, either
cheese and bread or entirely too much sauce

1107
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:46,439
and some cheese and bread. Yeah, all right now, And I will

1108
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:51,560
say the crust on Buddies leans more
towards the Jets side of things, where

1109
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:58,399
it's at like lighter style. But
and again, I'm sure this is controversial,

1110
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:00,439
but for me personally, if I
were ever going to concede and say,

1111
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,520
yes, there is a Detroit style
pizza for me, it's Jets before

1112
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:10,479
anything else. I think you're good
for your Jet sponsorship now, so we'll

1113
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,479
start running some Jets ads. Yeah, and Jets can get us an infectious

1114
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:19,199
grew podcast at gmail dot com for
our sponsorship. But I will say this

1115
01:24:19,319 --> 01:24:24,439
now and again, I don't think
this is too unique. I understand that

1116
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,319
a lot of pizzas have that,
you know, one inch crust around this,

1117
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,039
but to me, almost all square
pizza, at least every square pizza

1118
01:24:30,079 --> 01:24:32,760
I've ever seen, doesn't the cheese
always go to the edge. Yeah,

1119
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:39,199
I know, just because here in
Chicago, everybody assumes like deep dish deep

1120
01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:44,920
pizza is what everyone eat, and
it's very rare. We'll mostly eat really

1121
01:24:45,039 --> 01:24:53,159
thin tavern crust pizza where the sauce
only goes to maybe half to three quarters

1122
01:24:53,159 --> 01:24:56,760
of an inch away from the crust, so you just have the dry crust

1123
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,680
at the end and then your sauce, cheese and top what have you.

1124
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:05,199
Yeah, yeah, I just I
The biggest issue that I have is,

1125
01:25:05,239 --> 01:25:09,199
like I say, like I think, well, there's the thing where when

1126
01:25:09,239 --> 01:25:11,640
you grow up, I'm sure there's
a lot of people that don't think of

1127
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:13,560
anything as a big deal, right, Like, if you grow up as

1128
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,880
a kid in you know, southern
California or Orlando, you probably don't think

1129
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,159
Disney being right by you is a
big deal, you know what I mean,

1130
01:25:19,199 --> 01:25:23,479
And in the people that live thousands
of miles away would right. So

1131
01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:26,439
I've often thought about, like,
I don't know, well, maybe I

1132
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:30,199
just took Detroit style pizza for granted
my whole life, you know. But

1133
01:25:30,319 --> 01:25:33,800
it's it's literally everywhere, like everybody
does that style, you know, and

1134
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:39,600
somehow it just got labeled a Detroit
thing, you know. Like it almost

1135
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:43,359
feels to me like we're trying to
grip onto something like Philly cheese steak,

1136
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:47,079
or like Chicago has a claim to
pizza or hot dogs or something like that.

1137
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:51,680
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, for me personally,

1138
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,159
and I can't even put my finger
on what Buddies does wrong outside of

1139
01:25:57,199 --> 01:26:01,279
the whole You put it better than
I did the racing stripe of sauce sauce

1140
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:06,199
because I don't like, why why
is it all in one one spot,

1141
01:26:06,279 --> 01:26:10,920
you know. But Jets, on
the other hand, I will eat Jets

1142
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:14,199
all day. And my fiance's from
the South, She's never had Jets ever

1143
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,560
until about two months ago. We
only have we only have one down here,

1144
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,319
we have one location, but we
have one and we had them bring

1145
01:26:20,359 --> 01:26:23,800
it to us and she was like, wow, this is really good pizza.

1146
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:25,880
And I it's like yeah. And
I said, by the way,

1147
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,720
this is supposedly Detroit style and she
was like, but it's just square and

1148
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:30,720
I was like, I know,
just go with it. Yeah, yeah,

1149
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:33,159
yeah, yeah, just call it
Detroit style because everybody will get mad

1150
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:41,560
alleged you like Buddies and other like
local independent pizza places in Detroit, they

1151
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:45,399
use something that's called a Wisconsin brick
cheese, not mazzarella, and what I

1152
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:49,520
was reading, I've never had it. They say it's a cross between Cheddar

1153
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:54,920
and Limburger. Is that accurate?
I mean, how does that smell.

1154
01:26:56,319 --> 01:27:00,720
There's not much smell to it.
It's more of a tank in the taste.

1155
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:02,760
Yeah, I know your your smell
has a lot to do with the

1156
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,439
taste, but it's more of a
tang in there. And I will tell

1157
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:09,479
you that that is a huge difference. Like Jets, to my knowledge,

1158
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:12,439
doesn't use that. I think Jets
just uses regular use yea one hundred percent

1159
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:15,600
mozzarella according to their website. Yeah, and I know for sure Little Caesars

1160
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,880
doesn't use anything like that either.
Now you'll get places that will toy around

1161
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:23,000
with that every so often, like
uh, it'll just be a special But

1162
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:30,479
what's weird is outside of Jets and
Caesars and Buddies, every single like Mom

1163
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:34,239
and pop pizza place that's around Detroit, there's no one that specializes than anything.

1164
01:27:34,279 --> 01:27:39,359
They're all like also rans to Dominoes, like your regular you know,

1165
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:45,399
your regular circular pie. And now
with the way everybody orders online, you

1166
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,760
can throw those type of like different
cheeses at things if you want to.

1167
01:27:50,199 --> 01:27:55,399
But it's not like a standard thing
around town or anything. I know.

1168
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:57,880
I do know Buddies uses it,
but it just adds more of a little

1169
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:00,199
tang to it than anything. Okay. Now, the one thing that I

1170
01:28:00,279 --> 01:28:05,239
was reading that I did find cool
was that the alleged and if it's not

1171
01:28:05,319 --> 01:28:09,000
true, it makes for a good
story, so run with it. But

1172
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:15,520
the original square pans that were used
from Buddies, they're still around and they

1173
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:21,920
were used by a company called Dover
Parkersburg in the thirties and forties that were

1174
01:28:23,039 --> 01:28:28,720
used for automotive parts like you said
earlier, and even drip pands. Is

1175
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,319
that something you could own. I'm
sure you could probably find it on Amazon

1176
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:35,399
or something. But is that a
big industry there for Like people, if

1177
01:28:35,399 --> 01:28:39,720
you were making pizza at home,
would you buy one of these pans or

1178
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:43,239
just f that I'm buying a cookie
sheet? Yeah, everybody in Detroit that

1179
01:28:43,279 --> 01:28:45,680
I know of that's ever made pizza
at home does one of the things.

1180
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,600
They either buy the cookie sheet like
you said, okay, or they get

1181
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:54,039
the stone thing from Pampercheff. Yeah, you know that thing that people use

1182
01:28:54,119 --> 01:28:59,039
for that type of thing. Nobody
is doing any sort of thing like that

1183
01:28:59,039 --> 01:29:00,880
with the automotive part, sorry,
at least that I've ever met. Now,

1184
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:05,039
you reside with Lauren from beard Al
who's been on the show numerous times

1185
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:12,359
you both reside in Jacksonville. Now, is there anything like a local specialty

1186
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:15,399
pizza in Jacksonville or is it just
here's your pizza, go get it.

1187
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:21,359
So I don't I'm new enough to
Jacksonville to where I may, through the

1188
01:29:21,359 --> 01:29:25,239
course of this put my foot in
my mouth. I don't think this place

1189
01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:28,840
is Jacksonville exclusive. I think it's
more of a like, I think it's

1190
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,800
in a lot of Southern states.
Okay, there's a place down here called

1191
01:29:33,119 --> 01:29:40,720
Mellow Mushroom Pizza. Yeah, we
just had this afternoon and it was if

1192
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:42,439
you know, if you shook me
awake in the middle of the night and

1193
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:43,920
said, hey, we're going to
get pizza, I would be like,

1194
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,560
can we go to a Mellow Mushroom? You know? Like today we have

1195
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:51,560
a traditional round pizza, but it's
you know, green peppers, red peppers,

1196
01:29:53,399 --> 01:29:58,359
really nice slice chicken breast, aoli
sauce on it instead of red souce.

1197
01:29:58,399 --> 01:30:00,159
Like I mean, it was,
that's good stuff. And I think,

1198
01:30:00,279 --> 01:30:02,279
like I said, I don't think
that's a Jacksonville thing. I think

1199
01:30:02,279 --> 01:30:05,239
that's like Southern states. Yeah,
that's a Southern thing. Because I had

1200
01:30:05,319 --> 01:30:11,760
that years ago in Asheville, North
Carolina, and I have relatives that are

1201
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:13,640
there. They're like, oh,
let's go to this place for peatza.

1202
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:15,720
I'm like, oh no, that
was really good. Yeah, yeah yeah.

1203
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,760
And then the environment at the actual
restaurants, it's school. It's like

1204
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:25,319
a hippie culture yea restaurant, which
is cool. The one thing that I've

1205
01:30:25,359 --> 01:30:29,399
noticed in Jacksonville, because Jacksonville is
such a melting pot because it's one of

1206
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,039
the oldest cities in the country,
and you know, there's so many different

1207
01:30:32,079 --> 01:30:35,720
cultures here. I've seen and this
is across a lot of cuisines. This

1208
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:40,560
is not just pizza exclusive. This
is from the Chinese food I've tried here,

1209
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:44,800
the tai food I've tried here,
sushi. What I find is that

1210
01:30:45,039 --> 01:30:49,439
there's nowhere that is has a specialty
that they're really good at. Almost everywhere

1211
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:55,760
that I've gone is everyone is trying
to be jack of all trades and master

1212
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,880
of none, and that very much
includes pizza. For example. The only

1213
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:01,760
local place, like I know for
sure this place is a local because they

1214
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,960
have one location and it's like two
miles from my house. There's a place

1215
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:11,960
called EJ's. Certain fine, certain, certainly passable, pizza not bad by

1216
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,560
any stretch of the imagination, but
like on their menu they have like the

1217
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:20,239
square commalized one, they have a
thin crossed and they have a just a

1218
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:25,880
regular round like Domino style pizza,
and all three of them are just okay.

1219
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,560
Like, I wish there was places
here. I was just talking to

1220
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:32,119
Lord about this earlier today. I
wish there was places here that really specialized

1221
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:35,359
in one thing. And that is
one thing that I miss about Detroit is

1222
01:31:35,399 --> 01:31:42,680
that in Detroit you have you know, Mexicantown, Greektown, Deerborn Heights where

1223
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:46,720
it's very Middle Eastern, and you
have all these pockets and everyone knows,

1224
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,560
like, yeah, you can go
to the corner and get Mexican food,

1225
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:55,119
or you can go to Socialmiko in
Mexicantown and get Mexican food. You know,

1226
01:31:55,319 --> 01:31:58,640
yeah, same thing. You can
you know, you can go get

1227
01:31:59,119 --> 01:32:01,039
sushi or whatever, like you can
go. There's a place where you go

1228
01:32:01,119 --> 01:32:05,680
where they have the absolute best,
right and here I haven't come across that

1229
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:11,439
with any cuisine, yeah at all, because Jacksonville doesn't have like its own.

1230
01:32:12,159 --> 01:32:14,960
It's for example, if you went
to New Orleans, right, you're

1231
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,079
going to be looking for like creole, like you're gonna find you right.

1232
01:32:18,159 --> 01:32:24,039
Jacksonville doesn't have that, you know, so Detroit very much has that.

1233
01:32:24,119 --> 01:32:29,239
For every cuisine you can think of, there's the serviceable place, and then

1234
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:30,520
there's the one place that everybody goes. Oh, if you're looking for Tai

1235
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,520
food, that's there's the one to
go to, go into that section of

1236
01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:38,359
town where yeah, they're gonna knock
it out. Yeah, and I do.

1237
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:43,479
I absolutely miss that about Detroit.
Are there I mean you mentioned your

1238
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:47,800
disdain for Buddies. Are there places
in Detroit that if somebody were going there,

1239
01:32:48,399 --> 01:32:50,520
you'd say, you know, tell
them, no, you have to

1240
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:57,439
hit this place up for pizza.
Not anywhere that I can think of,

1241
01:32:58,199 --> 01:33:01,720
I mean, because almost everywhere that
I've had great pizza is something honestly is

1242
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:05,199
expanded enough to where you can get
anywhere else, you know. Now,

1243
01:33:05,239 --> 01:33:09,399
I would let me say this too, though, Buddies is not my cup

1244
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:13,319
of tea. Obviously, it's very
many other people's cup of tea because it's

1245
01:33:13,319 --> 01:33:16,239
been around for almost one hundred years. Uh and and and in a group

1246
01:33:16,319 --> 01:33:20,079
chat I have with my friends back
from Detroit, they regularly regularly remind me

1247
01:33:20,119 --> 01:33:24,600
that I'm wrong about Buddy's Pizza.
So if you're, you know, in

1248
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,079
the area, I would definitely don't
listen to me, Like, at least

1249
01:33:27,119 --> 01:33:31,199
go try Buddies for yourself. But
everywhere else that's around town that's gonna be

1250
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:38,119
authentic to Detroit is little Caesars or
Jets that you'd be able to get anywhere.

1251
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:42,640
Yeah yeah, and you're gonna laugh
at this, but one that popped

1252
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,119
into my head is in Greektown,
there's a Pizza Popolas. But that's a

1253
01:33:45,199 --> 01:33:47,560
chain, you know, so like, you know, I gotta go to

1254
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:51,039
Greektown in Detroit and have yourself Pizza
Populus. You can go to probably a

1255
01:33:51,079 --> 01:33:54,199
mall somewhere and get that, you
know, Yeah, you can get that

1256
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:58,199
anywhere next to the Sparrow. Yeah
yeah, yeah yeah. Now I realized

1257
01:33:58,239 --> 01:34:01,359
this is a pizza focused episode.
But I will tell you this, if

1258
01:34:01,399 --> 01:34:04,720
you're going to go to Detroit and
you're going to try any food that,

1259
01:34:05,119 --> 01:34:10,359
as far as I'm aware, you
can only get in Detroit is there's an

1260
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:14,119
entire chain of restaurants that are owned
by this company called The Union. So

1261
01:34:14,199 --> 01:34:16,560
now it used for years it was
just the one The Union in Clarkston,

1262
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:21,960
Michigan, and then they've opened many
successful places all around Detroit and they all

1263
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:25,760
specialize on different things. They've got
a couple of barbecue places, they have

1264
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,680
a couple of Mexican places. They
have a couple of like gastro pubs,

1265
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:31,079
that type of thing. But they're
all under the moniker of the Union Joints,

1266
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:35,640
and they make a macaroni and cheese
that's available at all of them.

1267
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:39,199
No matter if it's the Mexican place
or the gastro pub or whatever, you

1268
01:34:39,239 --> 01:34:43,840
can always get Union Mac. And
I will put my name on this all

1269
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:45,960
day long. As much as I
don't like buddies, I think Union Mac

1270
01:34:46,039 --> 01:34:48,960
is the greatest mac and cheese in
the history of the world, and I

1271
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:54,600
don't think there's anything even close to
it. So if anybody is going through

1272
01:34:54,640 --> 01:35:00,000
Detroit, my recommendation would be skip
pizza altogether. Just grab the nearest person

1273
01:35:00,079 --> 01:35:01,920
and say, hey, where's the
nearest Union Joint, walk in, sit

1274
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,920
down, order their mac and cheese, and then write David thank you letter.

1275
01:35:05,119 --> 01:35:09,640
All right? Do they like mix
it up with the different locations,

1276
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:13,920
like is it any different in the
Mexican Place than the gastrol pub or anything

1277
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:16,800
else? They offer different things like
at all of them, you can just

1278
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,920
get the basic cheese and noodles and
the custom top and all that stuff.

1279
01:35:20,079 --> 01:35:23,920
But like at the Mexican places,
they'll offer it with you can get it

1280
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:26,399
with cherizo and it if you want
to. The gastrol pub might have like

1281
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:30,159
chunks of ham and it uh one
of I forget which one it is,

1282
01:35:30,159 --> 01:35:36,000
but there's one where they have lobster
wore upscale places. But it's it's it's

1283
01:35:36,039 --> 01:35:41,560
hard to describe. They they serve
it in a crop to you, and

1284
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:45,039
so it's baked in there with all
these amazing cheeses that they use, and

1285
01:35:45,079 --> 01:35:50,600
then the entirety of the top of
it is m caramelized cheese over the top.

1286
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:55,199
So when you think Detroit pizza and
you think at the edge where the

1287
01:35:55,279 --> 01:35:59,680
cheese is caramel, right, that's
the So you got to take your fork

1288
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:03,439
and like tap through that crusted cheese
to get into the mac and cheese.

1289
01:36:04,119 --> 01:36:10,399
It is. It is to me, that's the defining Detroit food. Okay,

1290
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:15,359
I mean if I could get I
would have someone ship that frozen to

1291
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:19,159
me to Jacksonville through regular US Postal
service mail, and I would throw caution

1292
01:36:19,199 --> 01:36:21,880
to the wind and reheat it and
not care what it might have picked up

1293
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:25,199
in the mail system, like that's
how good it is. Yeah, I'll

1294
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:28,439
throw some dry ice in there.
I've got some like beer boxes that are

1295
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:31,640
well insulated. I'm sure we could
work something out. So yeah, that

1296
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:34,520
would be my recommendation, because I
didn't know. This sounds lame, but

1297
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:36,880
it's you know, if you if
you say, if I go to Detroit,

1298
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:40,520
where should I try the pizza?
My answer is going to be jets.

1299
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:43,279
What you can do on your corner, you know? Yeah? So

1300
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:45,680
I instead I would say, you
know, tap on anybody's shoulder and say,

1301
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,000
hey, where's the nearest union joint, because it doesn't matter where you

1302
01:36:48,039 --> 01:36:50,199
are. They are expanded enough now, it's where there's going to be one

1303
01:36:50,279 --> 01:36:54,319
near view. Okay, cool,
all right, well russ I, thank

1304
01:36:54,319 --> 01:36:58,560
you for coming back on the show. Talk in Detroit style, pizza and

1305
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:03,560
mac and cheese everything else where?
Can people find Infectious Group of Music two

1306
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:08,159
different ways, Whether or not the
podcast is still going when you're listening to

1307
01:37:08,199 --> 01:37:11,640
this, you can still go to
any podcast platform and just type in Infectious

1308
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:14,880
Group podcast and hit the subscribe button
and you'll again you'll have one hundred and

1309
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:18,079
seventy some episodes to take a listen
to, but all of the new content

1310
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:21,159
going forward will be all YouTube focused. So if you just go to YouTube

1311
01:37:21,199 --> 01:37:25,880
and type in Infectious Group of Music
and when it comes up, subscribe to

1312
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:30,039
the channel. You'll get three new
videos every single week. And we may

1313
01:37:30,079 --> 01:37:32,920
even up that after the audio side
of things goes away, but as of

1314
01:37:33,039 --> 01:37:35,760
now, I think you know,
three videos every week of five to ten

1315
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:39,479
minutes each is a lot of content
for people to take it. Yeah.

1316
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:43,640
Absolutely, I'll include the link in
the show notes if you're driving while listening

1317
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:46,560
to this, so I'll check out
Infectious Groove of Music Rush. Thank you

1318
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:49,479
again for coming on, sir.
I will talk to you later. Thanks

1319
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:55,720
for having me brother. All right, that's gonna wrap things up for part

1320
01:37:55,920 --> 01:38:00,800
one of the Pizza episode. Part
two will be released tomorrow and that will

1321
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:06,119
include Chicago and the rest of the
country. I'll talk to you tomorrow on

1322
01:38:06,399 --> 01:38:08,560
Beer in Front