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This week, we're covering a number
of topics, including the return of doctor

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Edwin Barnhardt, who was in Cambodia
studying the Angor Watt temple phenomenon known as

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the Zenus Passage. We have spoken
to him about that in the past.

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This work that he's doing reveals a
very advanced culture who were cosmologically focused and

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able to align their cities with planetary
systems as well as seasonal changes, in

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a very similar way that the Maya
aligned their pyramids, temples, and buildings

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to various planetary constellations. We're also
going to hear more about the satellite scan

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that was done by Filippo Benoni and
Cornado Malegna, who have revealed that the

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Cufu pyramid is very advanced and looks
to be what author Chris Dunn theorized in

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his book the Geeza power plant was
a functional machine. All this and more

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today on Earth Ancients for Saturday,
September twenty three, twenty twenty three.

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This is Earth Ancients. I'm your
host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how

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are you welcome to Earth Ancients.
Hope you're doing well today. We're speaking

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with ed doctor ed Barnhart today we're
catching up with him. I haven't spoken

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to Ed in a number of months. He's been traveling with his various tours

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ed tours around the world, and
we'll be joining him this coming November tenth

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through the seventeenth, will be in
Central Mexico. I talked about it every

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week, but it's going to be
a pleasure joining him, simply because he

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has not only excavated one of the
great Mayan cities known as Plank, he

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has also visited and worked on Bondenpeck
and Josh Chilen, among other ruins that

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will be visiting during that tour.
But I wanted to catch up with him

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on his Cambodia trip, and we
open our interview with his visit to ankor

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Watt, which is a camere,
an ancient camere site that apparently is revealing

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a tremendous number of anomalies, and
one of the big ones is And by

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the way, if you caught Ed
last time, I think he spoke about

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four months ago, we were talking
about the zenith passage. Is this kind

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of a solar or seasonal solstice phenomenon
where the lot where the sun is high

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over this that part of the world
and is caught in an inner tube,

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a chamber inside these temples and reflected
on these lingams, which are these carved

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symbols that represent male and female sexual
organs, but more so to the link

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of feminine and masculine energy. That's
basically what they are. But it's funny

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because we don't understand why they design
an entire complex at Anchor Watter And apparently

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there's something like a hundred temples,
and these are complex temples that are that

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kind of look like pyramids in a
way, but there there you can walk

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inside of them, where in the
Maya world you can't walk inside most of

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the pyramids. And Ed's gonna tell
us more about what he discovered regarding these

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Zenith Passage temples and the fact that
there are a lot of unusual phenomenon in

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the form of numerology, perhaps collecting
and using this sacred time of year within

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the temples. It looks like you
could stand and be bathed in the light

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that passed through these the shafts.
And so we're gonna learn about that,

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and then we're gonna go and we're
gonna do a We're gonna have a look

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at some of the other aspects of
Maya temples, Maya pyramids, and perhaps

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the correlation between the two. Although
we know that they did not of course

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orthodox He says this, they did
not exchange any information. This has always

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been a problem for me. Michael
Cole, who's like the foremost Mayanus in

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the world. He's passed away about
ten years ago. He wrote many many

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of the books he excavated to call. He excavated a number of places.

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He believes there is no such thing
as diffusion. Remember, diffusion is the

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term that we use when cultures are
exchanging science. They're exchanging engineering, architecture

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or whatever. I think when it
comes to cosmology, the study of the

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stars and things like this, that
there was an exchange of knowledge between the

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Khmer and the Maya. It does
make sense that other cultures, perhaps even

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the Egyptians and the Maya, where
we're exchanging data. The bottom line is

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that when we are dealing with the
current orthodoxy, they got to see the

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paperwork that says that they even if
it was in a geoglyph or rendering some

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writing, some scribbles, that wouldn't
be enough for them, and they have

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to see it matter of factly.
So this is what we deal with right

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now. And this is why Earth
Ancients is around to basically show an alternative

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view. And in some cases,
and I believe this is true, the

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indigenous perspective is probably gonna, you
know, give us the answers we need.

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And this is the oral traditions.
And if you remember back a few

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months ago, we had doctor Pauline
Steves from Canada who's an indigenous, a

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native archaeologist. She writes very succinctly
that these oral traditions are growing and when

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you begin to reference them and compare
them to various native groups around the world,

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they all kind of sink. And
as they sink, we can verify

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stories. The Great Flood is one
great example. Every culture has a story

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of the Great Flood. One of
the things that I've always been curious about,

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and it's been proven by a number
of different scientists, is that many

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of these mind cities line up constellations. We know that the Geeza Pyramids line

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up with the constellation of Ryan.
It's been a fact. It's been noted

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by Guatemalan archaeologists that places like Tikal
line up with specific constellations. I think

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it's a Lira constellation. I'm not
quite I don't quite remember, but they

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are able to show that this pyramid
lines up with this star, this pyramid

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lines up with that star, so
forth and so on. And to my

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mind, we probably see this in
ankor Watt and other places. And that

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shows that these ancient people were very
much aligned with these these ruins. And

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so this is something to be to
be condescent about. And I gotta tell

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you this. The beauty of ed
doctor Edwin Barnhardt is that he is very

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open minded. He's been on ancient
aliens more than I have. I think

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I've refused to be on ancient aliens. I just I have. I don't

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want to support it. As much
as I admire Eric van Donnigen, David

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Hatcher, Childress and William Henry and
the other hosts on that program, I

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know them all, I just am
uncomfortable. And I've been asked to be

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I've been asked to sit in and
all those programs a couple of times and

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no thank you, no thank you. So I want to mention this too.

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In part of our discussion, I
bring up this new discovery by the

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two scientists Filippo Beyondi and Corrado Malenga. Remember they requisitioned a European Space Agency

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satellite and the satellite was used had
a system on it called a SARS Tomography

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Scanner SAR. SAAR stands for Synthetic
Aperture Radar and this r These radars,

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these satellites are used for scanning volcanoes
of for geologists and you know, to

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learn if they are active, to
kind of be an early warning system to

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let people know they're about to burst
or about to bust and blow, which

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means there's lava flow. So that's
what they're using for. Filippo and Cornado

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actually requisitioned it and had the satellite
and this must have cost a ton of

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money unless they know somebody in at
the European Space Agency. They scanned the

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Kufu Pyramid, remember this, and
what they got back was a completely new

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rendition of the interior of that pyramid. Twenty two new rooms were found,

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a number of shafts, some going
as deep as it looks like more than

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one hundred feet under the base of
the pyramid, canals that circled the Kings

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and Queen's chamber, new stairways or
what looks to be stairways, and relieving

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chambers, and other intricate mechanisms in
this pyramid. That kind of gives credence

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to what Chris said. Chris Dunn
said about twenty years ago that the Cufu

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Pyramid is a machine, energy producing
machine. And by the way, he

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wrote the book The Geeza power Plant, I think it's almost twenty years now.

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Chris is going to be on the
show next year. He has a

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brand new book out coming out in
late December. And by the way,

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that book is his belief that the
Great Pyramid actually duplicated what Tesla Nikolai Tesla

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tried to duplicate in his Warncliff Tower, which is I believe. I think

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what he's thinking is that that he
could produce free energy in the atmosphere and

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you could run off of that.
Now, if that's true, that means

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the people who built that pyramid were
extremely advanced, thousands of years advance of

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ours of us. And this is
probably where the ancient alien guys come in

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and go, oh, we knew
it was aliens that built this thing.

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Well, no, come on,
now, remember there are multiple epochs that

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go over Right now, the belief
is over four thousand years in the past,

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so over that time period, you're
going to develop a very very advanced

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science here on Earth as an Earth
Lane, not from another world, not

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from another dimension, not from another
species of hominins or whatever. Or it

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could be Earth hominins, but not
not from ETS. I just I just

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I just don't find any evidence of
ETS. So I mean, it's easy

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to fall into the ET quagmire when
you see advanced technology like this. And

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Boni and Malanga, the two scientists
that that aligned this satellite, have just

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produced a new book. And I'm
trying to get Filippo Beyondi to come on

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the program he's in from Ireland,
Belfast, Ireland, and get him to

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talk about this book, because it
is not only revolutionary as you'll hear today

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from ed or on chaeologists here or
the ancients. Brings up a lot of

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questions. It brings up a lot
of confusion. And if it's true and

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we see the sophistication that reproduced in
say the Sun Pyramidican, some of the

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great pyramids at around Yucatan and Mexico, that's just that's a game changer.

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That's a game changer. And this, honestly, and I'm writing about this

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right now, is my belief that
is what This is what the original people,

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the Midsole Americans be at Maya,
Olmec whatever when they built these pyramids.

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This is what their goal was,
to create pyramids that were actual machines.

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So fascinating to think about. So
today's program is ankor Watt Pyramids and

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the Zenith Passage. And my guest
today is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. Doctor ed

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Barnhardt is in the house and that
means we're talking archaeology, but not just

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archaeology. I have to say this
about ed He is not sitting behind a

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desk and going you know what the
heck is going on. He's in a

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plane, his boots on the ground. Just got back from Cambodia. He

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is leading our tour November tenth through
the seventeenth. If you're interested in joining

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us, you can see the entire
itinerary. It is the Maya of Tabasco

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and Chiapis November tenth of the seventeen. I just mentioned that, and the

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entire itinerary is on Earth Ancients dot
Com forward slash Tours. I'd say we

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have one or two spots left,
but we'll talk a little bit more about

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some of the places we're gonna see
later in this interview. I wanted to

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have add on simply because there's a
lot of new data that's been coming out

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on pyramids and also my unrelated sites, and it's always fun to have them.

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Hey, Ed, good to see
how you doing. I'm great.

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Thanks for having me back. Cliff. Hey, I want to start with

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your recent trip to Cambodia and these
phenomenal photographs that were taken of a temple

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at angkor Watt, and you were
following up on your last tour with this

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zenith passage calculations. Now, one
of the things that you hinted on was

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that there has been numerology associated with
I guess it's a certain temple. But

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talk a little bit about how what
you discovered, first of all, and

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secondly, how the numerology affects these
beams that pass through the interior of these

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temples well as as we've discussed,
the core of my research is about zenith

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passage, the day or two days
of the year and the tropics where the

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sun goes directly over your head so
at noon you'll have absolutely no shadow.

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You know, the ancients would put
these long, tall sticks perfectly plumbing the

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ground to really try to get an
accurate observation of that moment of zenith.

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For Anchor, the dates are August
seventeenth and April twenty sixth, and so

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those two dates are the windows that
I can be there and actually record the

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sun in this position. Now,
at Anchor, what they do instead of

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putting up a bunch of straight sticks
in the ground called nomans, they created

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what's called a zenith tube. And
those zenith tubes are in the roofs of

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all of those beehive shaped temples that
you see. The interior of those is

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hollow, and up at the very
top at the capstone, there were originally

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these tubes that would go very deep, maybe three to five feet deep,

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and they'd be about maybe four inches
in diameters. So they were designed for

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only when the sun is exactly over
the top of them, would a beam

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of light come through that tube and
be concentrated into a beam of light that

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would hit the center of the altar
inside the temple. And literally hundreds of

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them around Cambodia built exactly the same
way. And so I've been pinpointing that

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moment I go in August seventeenth,
when it's super hot and wait for that

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day. A couple of the roofs
are broken up, so you can go

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a couple of days on either side
and see more diffuse light. But it

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still does the phenomena where you actually
see this kind of like Indiana Jones,

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like beam of light come down.
What I mean, why would they spend

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this uh the man hours to build
these temples? And when they're not talking

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small temples, these are very big
temples that are hollowed out to get this

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once in a year sunbeam. Why
who cares? It's a good question.

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Now, you know, my theories
center around the Hindu concept of the center

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of the universe. A lot of
their mythology talk about Mountain Miru being at

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the center of the world and in
the axis of the center of the universe.

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That's what those temples are said again
and again to be by both ancient

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and modern Hindu people, that those
temples recreate Mount Meru at the center of

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the universe. So I'm weak that
alignment that they're drawing out with the Sun

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being exactly at the center of the
sky and coming through Mount Meru is kind

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of spiritually activating it as the center
of the universe. Okay, so you

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build this temple, you get this
beam, you're aligning to this sacred historical

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notion. Is there something that's been
written? Is there imagery that relates to

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the position of the sun, energetics, esoteric knowledge that is kind of a

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tradition of the kimball or the chimer. Well, I'd say it's the it's

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the larger you know, Indo,
China and Southeast Asian world. That's kind

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of this combination of Hinduism and Buddhism. They kind of flip flopping back,

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but they're much like Judaism and Christianity. They share the same core story.

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They've just they're divergent religions of the
same tradition being the older one and Buddhist

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Buddhism being the evolution. But there
are you know, there's there's I have

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been searching both on the ground and
in archives for things that relate to these

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issues, and I've found interesting things
like old Chinese travelers talking about how individual

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communities would build up these little berms
and put a noman in there specifically to

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know the day of Zenith passage.
I found some what I what I was

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looking for this last time to document
was an actual building orientation. Almost all

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of the Khmer temple complexes are lined
up in cardinal directions, so north southeast

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west, they're right on those cardinal
directions. Virtually all of them are in

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the Maya area. We find these
buildings that are aligned to the day that

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the sun will rise when that later
on that day, it'll be right over

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your head at zenith. So I
was looking for that, and they're hard

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to find, but I found one. A section of co Care has a

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pyramid, so you have a really
bird's eye view looking over a temple complex

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through a pair of libraries and into
one of those big water features called Barai

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and onto a flat horizon where the
sun rises. So I actually found a

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purposely altered orientation of a whole complex. That's kind of making my argument in

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another way that yes, they are
indeed looking at zenith passage. And so

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I was there at dawn on the
top of this temple in the middle of

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nowhere to take this picture of the
sun rising right between its front doors,

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and I got that. Wow,
that's amazing. All right, give us

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heads up on the numerology. This
is somewhat esoteric language, but apparently what

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are your associates figured something. Now, go ahead, and what's that all

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about? Well, there, if
I if I'm thinking of the one that

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you're thinking of. There's a long, long carving on one of the walls

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of the Temple of ankor Watt that's
showing us the famous Hindu mythology scene of

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the churning of the Sea of milk, where the demons and the angels or

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the assuras and the divas are using
this big snake to froth up this sea

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of milk. And they're using a
big, a big island in the middle

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of it, and wrapped the snake
around and they turned back and forth until

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it froths up the milk. But
the number of people on either side of

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the island count up too. There
was a woman named eleanor Monika who counted

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them up and saw it as solstice
and equinox. The distances between there are

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ninety and eighty nine on either side. But I noticed that there were also

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some still larger but not as big
as the ones on the end figures.

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And when you count those up,
you get a count of one hundred and

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twelve days, which is exactly the
number of days between the first and the

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second Zenith passage. At Anchor.
So this was a weird little piece of

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numerology where they were actually encoding in
an older mythology the number one hundred and

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twelve, which is the number of
days between April twenty sixth and August seventeenth.

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Now to back that up, also, there's a temple complex in Java

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called Pronambanan, and a certain temple
complex within that city also has a outer

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compound that's oriented to its day of
zenith passage the sunrise, just like co

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Care that I documented just a month
ago, but in this case it has

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a little more. It has the
outer compound that is at eight degrees and

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it's at eight degrees south. There's
a whole math thing there that makes that

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work with why that's the day for
zenith passage to go directly over our head.

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But it also has a central temple
with two hundred and twenty four individual

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little temples around it. And I'll
give you one guess what the distance between

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zenith passage first one and second one
is at that latitude. It's two hundred

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and twenty four days. So they
actually have the numerology of the distance between

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the two zenith passages there, and
they have their outer compound oriented to see

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it at its sunrise. When was
that complex built Pronombanon. I don't know

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whether it was built at the start, but an interesting link between it and

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Khmer is that it was it was
probably To answer your question, I think

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it was built around the seventh century. But the very first king of Anchor

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of the Khmer civilization was Jayavarman the
second. He was crowned in eight o

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two CE, and he spent his
teenage years as a captive of the court

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of Pronombanon in Java. And then
when he got away and he went into

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the mainland and established the Khmer Empire, he created more of these kinds of

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zenith tubes based on what he saw
there. I believe that's why it was

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educated. Somehow he was educated.
I just found something that baked my noodle

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too. I shouldn't even tell you
somebody, I'm writing my paper right now.

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But I sat up in my bed. I had my son with me

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in Cambodia. I sat up in
my bed in my hotel room. I

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was like, holy crap Edwin.
Do you know that one hundred and twelve

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days is exactly four camer lunar months
of twenty eight days? This latitude is

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exactly four months between zenith passages,
and I thought, well, man,

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do I even do I have the
beginnings of why Anchor is where it's at.

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And then I went back and I
was sitting at my table just yesterday

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looking at what I described to you
that was two hundred and twenty four temples,

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and I thought it couldn't be,
could it? And I divided it

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by twenty eight. It's perfectly eight. Those two temple complexes are in perfect

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places where zenith passage is an even
increment of their lunar months. Anywhere else

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you go between the two, you
really don't get an even thing. Most

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of the even ones are out in
open water. So these guys were astronomers

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as well. I guess there were
astronomers, but they were tying astronomy to

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the land through the weird phenomena of
zenith passage being different at different latitudes.

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Everywhere you go. In Cambodia,
summer solstice is June twenty first, but

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it depends on your latitude what day
you have as zenith passage. So when

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I went up to co Care,
I had to go on August sixteenth,

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because it is thirty five kilometers farther
north, and so the day shifted by

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one, which was convenient because I
could go play my game and co care

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and then rush back down to Anchor
and see its Zenith passage. What is

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it about Cambodia that's so fascinating to
you? Ed? Is it the fact

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that they were pyramid builders? And
even though we know from a number of

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researchers that the designs are dissimilar,
they're not. You know, they're not

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similar at all, but there is
some there is some design features that might

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be similar. But what's what's your
what's your interest? Well, I mean,

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now that I've been there a bunch, I have a lot of tings

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that I find lovely about the place. But my inspiration for going there was

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that it is one of the only
major ancient civilizations to have grown up in

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the tropics. So I was already
for more than a decade searching for evidence

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about Zenith Passage in Mesoamerica, and
we kind of ran into a block.

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You know, what else can we
say about this? So I thought,

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Hey, if there are other civilizations
in the tropics, which there must be

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a bunch, let's go see what
they say about Zenith Passage and maybe it

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can enlighten us on our work and
move us further along in meso America.

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So I looked at the map,
and to my surprise, almost all of

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our ancient civilizations are above the tropics. The one over there that's squarely in

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it, well, you've got you've
got southern India, and then you have

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Southeast Asia. But all of Egypt
except for the very southern part, all

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of Rome, all of Greece,
all of Mesopotamia, all of those are

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north of the tropics, and they'll
never get a Zenith Passage. So I

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went to the Khmer civilization because they
were the only other one in the same

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latitude as meso America, and I
thought I'd go over there and learn something

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about At that point, I didn't
even know whether they knew anything about Seenith

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Passage. There was nothing in the
literature. The friendship dominated uh Khmer archaeology

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00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:18.079
for decades. Now that's kind of
changed, but they were focused on the

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architecture. They did not think about
the archaeo astronomy at all, So it

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was kind of a brand new field. Even today, there are me and

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00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.680
maybe maybe four or five other guys
that are even publishing or thinking about it

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at all. We need the book
ed, not the white paper. We

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need the book. So think about
that. Hey, I'm working on it.

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What what site in Maya Land has
a pyramid or temple dedicated directly to

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the zenith passage? Well, there's
evidence of it at well, I don't

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know whether directly dedicated to it.
We don't. We don't really know that

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00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.440
much about what these sempols are about. Honestly, we get the hieroglyphs.

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00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.720
But I can say that there is
a there's an alignment that's been known forever.

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At Copon, Blanka's palace actually has
two different alignments. The castillo at

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00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:26.119
uh at chichen Itza has two different
alignments, has one the main pyramid at

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00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:33.079
Chichisa No, the the observatory,
the caracole a caracole. Okay, It's

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00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:40.200
bottom staircase is aligned to its zenith
passage, and one of the only three

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00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.960
surviving windows up top is looking at
the day that the sun will rise,

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not at its latitude, but at
Copon's latitude. This is interesting, Again

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and again and again, I think
I should have been more specific in my

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00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:59.559
question to you. Is the Khmer
temples are open like uh, the drilled

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from the the temple top to the
to the Lingham below. Is there a

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00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.400
temple like that in my island,
not in my island or not that we've

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00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:13.200
found. Of course, you know
that a lot of them are super ruined.

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00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.920
There could be things that we don't
see, but they that's called a

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00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:20.640
zenith tube versus the moleman. And
so the three zenith tubes that we know

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00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:29.559
from meso America are one in montiel
Bond built into a staircase, one in

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00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:36.240
Joschicalco that's built that's cut into a
cave right right in the middle of the

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00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:43.880
complex. And then there's one maybe
two into Tibakan. There's a really Yeah.

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00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.079
I was waiting for you to say
Tikal has three or four because there's

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00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:52.640
somebody I wish. No, they're
they're temples are built completely different. They're

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00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:59.400
they're solid brew fuck top. But
the kamer Ones are they have an intentional

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00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.680
hole. Yeah, and like I
said, the man hours, the complexity

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of these temples, this is something
it's almost like the entire complex was built

337
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:15.279
for this Zenus passage event. If
you want to after this interview, I'll

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throw you a couple of images if
I haven't already that you can put on

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your in your show notes so people
can see these beams of light. I'd

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00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.480
like to use with your permission,
the gallery of images you posted on your

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Facebook page with your last tour group. And then there's one with a lingam.

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I don't know where I saw it, but that's like the most recent

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photograph. Real quickly add before we
move on, why the importance of a

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lingam? And what I mean?
The lingam to me is the representation of

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fertility somewhat. But why the beam
hitting this stone lingam? Is this for

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like the seasonal fertility, fertility rights
or something. What's going on there?

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00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.759
Well, I mean besides the perennial
issue of men and erecting large penises in

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00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:10.880
their home. I like how you
flat you just quickly go over, you

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know, in their in their position. I know this is first a podcast,

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but someday someone will see this,
this beautiful little model. Wow.

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Of there's the lingham, and then
the thing that it fits into is called

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a yannie, and that is thought
of as a vagina. So it's that

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00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.719
duality of men and women in the
fertility symbol. But also, as it

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00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:37.440
points straight up, guess what it
is. It's a Noman, and so

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00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:43.679
when the light shines down from the
tube right onto it, this area here

356
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:52.440
has no shadow inside the temple,
and so's it works with the Zenith passage

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00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:58.639
identification. It shows it is a
noman inside the temple. And the funny

358
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.800
thing about co Care and that big
pyramid I was standing up on top of

359
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.880
it is well known, though they
don't know where it is anymore, that

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00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:15.519
on top of that was a ten
foot tall lingham, the tallest one in

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00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:19.719
all of Cambodia, at the top
of the temple. On top of the

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00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.159
temple, that is a line to
Zenith passage. So on top of the

363
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:28.840
one that is a line to see
Zenith Passage sunrise. It has the largest

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00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:37.119
gnomen in the entire Khmer world or
had the lingams are are? You can't

365
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:42.199
help but just say they're sexual.
I mean a penis and vagina. What's

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00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.159
the what's the the cut that makes
it look like you could pour of water

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00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:51.360
or something out of it? Fluids? Yeah, what is that is that?

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00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.119
I think it's a practical thing because
when they leave that hole in the

369
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roof all year, the rain comes
in. I was thinking it hits at

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00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.960
the top of the lingham and comes
around and doesn't dig a hole in the

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temple and then it pours out.
Okay, I don't know. There's really

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nothing written about Lingham's that I've You
would think there would be something written,

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but I don't know. You know, I'm sure there is. That.

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My trouble is, you know,
I'm been a Mayanist for most of my

375
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life, and now I'm jumping into
this Buddhist and Hindu thing and there's only

376
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you know, five thousand years of
written documents or so. I'm sure I'll

377
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.920
get through of them before I die. Yeah, you got your work cut

378
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.719
out for you. There's so much
out there. I mean, I every

379
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.679
time I delve into it, I
find neat new things real quickly. Before

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00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:49.800
we leave Cambodia, They're intricate.
Construction and design of these temples is pretty

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00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:55.639
cool. What do you find appealing
and tell us real quickly the difference between

382
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a Maya temple and a Khmer temple. Well, you know, a lot

383
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:09.079
of the constructions that we think of
when we see the Maya world are these

384
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:15.079
pyramids that are solid on the inside. They have earlier phases sometimes, but

385
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:22.159
there's not there's almost never chambers and
things inside that pyramid like Egypt has and

386
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.480
the Khmer the same way. All
of these temple complex as we see,

387
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:30.519
you can actually walk inside them,
and they've got those vaulted empty roofs and

388
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.800
things. So that's that's a huge
different part of it that the architecture we

389
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:44.239
see in the pretty coffee table pictures. Those are the they're they're hollow and

390
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.079
you can walk inside. Most of
the Maya stuff is on the exterior and

391
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:52.840
on the very top, but the
Khmer stuff is much more elaborate and massive.

392
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.719
I mean, I I've been teamed
Maya my whole life. But the

393
00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:04.000
truth is that the great city of
Tikal fits inside just the compound called Anchor

394
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:08.840
Tom, which is a fraction of
the city of Anchor. The entire city

395
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:15.679
of Tikal is an ant compared to
to Anchor, so this scale is just

396
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.079
incomparable. We could talk about that
for a while. Hey, I want

397
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:27.199
to jump ship. We're talking about
pyramids. I sent you a paper by

398
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:34.719
two scientists, Filippo Beyondi and Cornado
Malanga. Before we started we were talking

399
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:43.440
about this paper. They were able
to requisition a Italian satellite and use a

400
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:50.639
process called SAR, which stands for
a synthetic opening radar, and they use

401
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:58.960
this radar to scan volcanoes to determine
the volatility if they're gonna blast, kind

402
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:05.280
of an early warning them. The
two scientists pointed it at the Kufu Pyramid,

403
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:10.559
the Great Pyramid in Giza, and
they came back with something phenomenal twenty

404
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:20.000
two new rooms, shafts, stairways, corridors, very very unusual CAD readings

405
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:24.159
based on the scans, and well, what do you what do you say

406
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.800
about that? I mean, I've
never seen anything like that. I think

407
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.159
one of the problems we both agreed
to is the fact that the image scans

408
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:36.760
that we see are pretty rudimentary.
They're pretty raw, they're not really cleaned

409
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.599
up. But other than that,
what does that make you? I mean,

410
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.880
what's going on here? Is this
an engine? I mean, Chris

411
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:49.639
Dunn says that the Great Pyramids an
engine, right, And I've I've read

412
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.719
a little bit of that, and
you know, you know, that's not

413
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.840
really my wheelhouse. I'm not in
You know a lot more about Egypt than

414
00:39:54.880 --> 00:40:01.559
I do, and certainly I don't
know a whole lot about satellite imagery and

415
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.559
SAR. But from what I can
read, there I mean, I think

416
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:14.320
there's been enough studies from various angles
to make it evident that there are undiscovered

417
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:22.039
chambers inside the pyramids there on the
Giza plateau. That doesn't surprise me at

418
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.199
all. But the presentation of the
data in that report, and I have

419
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:32.920
read a lot of technical reports,
it's very very technical language. I you

420
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.039
know, I really I get interested
in the methodology. Okay, well,

421
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.360
you know, how did you collect
your data? But that that section of

422
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:46.199
the report is very very obtuse.
It's hard to understand exactly what they're doing.

423
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:52.679
I know that it's cross thin sections
of satellite imagery, which is kind

424
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:58.239
of a different way to use satellite
imagery. But frankly, you know,

425
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.639
I don't understand all of their explanations. I noted that, you know,

426
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:08.159
it's it's still in the peer review
process, so the people that understand what

427
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:13.719
they're saying more than me can help
them make a clearer argument, so guys

428
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.079
like me and you can understand it
exactly. I got a pet peeve that,

429
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.480
you know, when important papers come
out like this, I wish they

430
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.480
wouldn't speak in such technical jargon.
I mean, they're supposed to be teachers,

431
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:30.079
they're supposed to be explaining it in
a way that the regular people that

432
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.320
are interested in it can understand.
But when I read that paper, you

433
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:38.239
know, thirty three out of the
thirty nine pages make my eyes cross.

434
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:44.719
I don't really get the get what
they're saying. And the images they're using

435
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:52.000
are understandably limited. They probably took
thousands of cross sections to create their final

436
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.719
model. Yeah, but the ones
they chose at least aren't really showing me

437
00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:01.639
what they say they're seeing there.
So the text and the images don't seem

438
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:07.360
to match up. I'm but but
you know, I may just not understand

439
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:14.760
it. Yeah, I totally agree
that the language is highly technical. In

440
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:17.840
fact, i'd say a third of
the paper I think it's thirty or forty

441
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:27.960
pages is equations and mathematical formulas that
were used to align the scan, and

442
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:32.000
and then this is all uploaded into
after the scan has taken into a CAD

443
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:38.039
system, when we get the resulting
three D images. I found it interesting

444
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:44.519
that there are corridors. There's always
been speculation, and we do now know

445
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:47.119
that at the g and the Geese
of Pyramid, the Geese of Plateau,

446
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:53.840
there are underground canals that have water
moving around, and I was curious on

447
00:42:53.880 --> 00:43:00.719
your thoughts. When I was with
Gonzalez, professor or doctor Gonzalez at twa

448
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:07.840
con we were in the tunnel underneath
the Serpent Pyramid. Water was a huge

449
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:13.400
part of that complex, and this
paper did talk about water in a very

450
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:19.480
fantastic way. Yeah, I want
to ask you this. In this book

451
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:24.719
I'm writing, the Maya Controversy,
you submitted a couple of interesting photographs that

452
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:30.880
had been taken by a satellite where
you see the water in canals from the

453
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:37.960
river leading to the body or the
area of this plum Serpent pyramid, and

454
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:49.760
then it goes down this well that
Gonzalez initially found into this tunnel. Now,

455
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:58.360
Gonzalez says that this is all for
developing the underworld, and this is

456
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:02.559
part of the ceremony anal aspects,
and of course he found seventy five thousand

457
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:08.920
artifacts in that tunnel. But I'm
curious, when we talked a couple of

458
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:19.599
months ago, your experience in surveying
not only Polanky but also visiting other sites

459
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:27.840
is that the water is a critical
aspect in the construction of not only pyramids,

460
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.599
but temples and waterways and things like
that. Talk a little bit about

461
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.079
the misole American perception of water and
why it is designed into these buildings.

462
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:45.039
Well, you know, we're talking
about Tao tu Wakan and the Maya Area,

463
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:49.920
which are two entirely different environments.
The thing that we're talking about a

464
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.400
Teo t Wican, if I can
start there, Yeah, appears to be

465
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:58.239
an aqueduct leading from the main river, the San Juan, that goes through

466
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:05.719
the middle of the site and leading
directly and only too that man made tunnel

467
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:12.519
that Gomez found under the temple of
kessel Quaddle. That is fascinating to me,

468
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.000
and it also is weird to me
that Ena clearly dug the whole thing

469
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.039
up and then buried it again.
They know it's there, and I don't

470
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:28.440
know why Gomez's reports never say a
thing about it. That's weird. But

471
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:34.760
so in tail Tubacan, their challenge
is to get water two parts of the

472
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:39.000
site that have no water for whatever
purpose, whether it's creating a watery underworld

473
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:45.039
or washing your laundry. Everybody in
that huge city needed water, and it

474
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:50.639
only came from the limited sources of
the river. Then you turned to Maya

475
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.639
area and Polanka, where will be
in just a couple of months. Here,

476
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:01.400
their challenge also is to control water. But there there where it's in

477
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:07.920
a rainforest and it's constantly raining.
Their challenge was to control it so it

478
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:13.119
wouldn't wash them off the foundations of
their buildings. How close it's Polanky to

479
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.119
the river though it's not that close, is it. No, it's up

480
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.079
on a hill above. But there
are there are rivers that run through polank

481
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:25.679
Gate from above down below with waterfalls, and and in tons of severe rainfall,

482
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:31.960
that water gets out of the banks
of those rivers and can join in

483
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:37.679
the middle. So they're about They're
all about water control features an entirely different

484
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:45.519
goal for their engineering. So we
see the plank Gate mastery of hydraulic engineering

485
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:51.000
exhibit itself in a totally different way
than we do Tao Tibacan, because the

486
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:57.599
two different climactic regions have different challenges. Polank As trying not to get engulfed

487
00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:01.519
by their water, Taotibacon trying to
spread their water out to a larger and

488
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:10.599
larger sprawling population. I want to
I want to go back to tawakon real

489
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:16.000
quickly. Uh. You said something
interesting, which is like, why would

490
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:22.199
Gonzalez fill the tunnel back in and
not exploring any further. I looked high

491
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:30.480
and low for papers that he or
his team would write on this water mark

492
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.079
that is very evident in this tunnel. I mean I saw it close up.

493
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:38.880
Uh why not talk about what that
purpose? What the purpose was?

494
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:46.079
Uh? He kept saying to us, uh that don't touch the walls,

495
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:53.239
don't touch the ceiling because there is
uh what's the what's the what's the raw

496
00:47:53.320 --> 00:48:00.039
form of mercury? Uh? Well, cinembar, the cinema bar all over

497
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.920
the wall and it's very poisonous.
Da da da da. My feeling is

498
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.960
because he also found literally gallons of
mercury in the the on the ground that

499
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:20.679
they vacuumed out, that the water
had this center bar in it, and

500
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:24.039
that's what they were painting the ceilings
with. I mean he even turned the

501
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:28.840
lights off and showed the ceiling with
his flashlight and said, this is what

502
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:31.960
you know. They had a torch
and this is what they would do.

503
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:38.920
The weird thing about that tunnel is
that they didn't initially go down the well

504
00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:46.880
shaft the Tewa Knutkins. I guess
you could call them open the back of

505
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:53.800
the tunnel as the access point.
They actually dug out the back area.

506
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:59.000
It had huge stones in it.
They went in the tunnel, and then

507
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:04.079
they began using it as a ceremonial
center, which makes me think maybe they're

508
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.400
not the original designers behind it.
Maybe an earlier people put that in there.

509
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:15.440
They found it and used it as
a ceremonial center. Now my question

510
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:22.239
to you is, when I asked
you about the purpose of the water,

511
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:31.760
you went ahead and actually showed me
these amazing canals that were underground. What

512
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:37.360
I mean, the simple explanation the
edge of the the you know, the

513
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:46.880
the orthodox Edgy terminology would be this
is a shamanistic design. But is that

514
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:52.639
is isn't that simple that they would
create such a complex, you know,

515
00:49:53.760 --> 00:50:00.000
water system to have in this temper
in this pyramid. I agree with you

516
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:05.400
that it is a heck of a
lot of work and it doesn't make a

517
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:10.440
whole lot of sense from a practical
point of view. And so, you

518
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:15.800
know, at least what I have
been taught and the best explanation that you

519
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:22.679
know, my field comes up with
is that they are recreating moments of their

520
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:29.800
creation story and cosmology. They are
recreating an environment that is the watery underworld

521
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:35.280
where the dead go and where the
gods of death reside. Okay, and

522
00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:40.119
so that's I mean that that does
not make sense to my Western world mind,

523
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:44.840
but it does make sense on a
level that these people think different than

524
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:50.400
I think or was taught, and
that when it comes to religious activities,

525
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:57.800
they are oftentimes very labor intensive,
very huge because the harder you worked,

526
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:02.840
the greater yours show of adoration.
You know. That's uh. Bill fash

527
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:07.239
famously said, you know, when
you're building things for the gods, it's

528
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:14.679
not supposed to be easy. Yeah, we're gonna take a short commercial break

529
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:19.559
and we will be right back with
my guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhart,

530
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.440
and he's talking about a wide variety
of topics, so we'll be right back.

531
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:06.480
My guest today is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. He has recently returned from a

532
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:12.840
tour of Cambodia and anglor Watt and
the unique structures of the buildings there.

533
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.840
If a scan like this star scan
is done on say the Pyramid of the

534
00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:25.599
Sun or Quits Aquatal Pyramid or even
the Moon Pyramid, and they've turned up

535
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:31.519
similar features like the Kufu pyramid,
what would that make you think? Well,

536
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:36.639
in that context, I'd think,
Oh, they just found a tune,

537
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.280
because that's almost invariably what's in meso
America. You know, the Kufu

538
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:45.840
one. We already have all these
neat chambers. I mean I've walked into

539
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:49.480
those chambers and climbed up that little
thing, so we knew there were some

540
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:57.239
and we know from other limited examples
in Egypt that the pyramids were constructed with

541
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:02.159
interiors in mind. In the Maya
and larger meso American world, we never

542
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:07.480
find that. The only thing we
find inside tombs that are chambers are buried

543
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:13.800
tombs. So if they find a
big cavity in the sun, we would

544
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.719
say that it would I would think, oh, did we finally find a

545
00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:21.920
Tao Tebalkan king, Because that's a
weird thing about Tao Tebakan. You know,

546
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.559
they don't they don't name who their
kings are. We don't seem to

547
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:28.920
have any of their tombs. We
don't know where they lived. That's a

548
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:35.840
that's a abiding mystery, one of
many about Tao Tebakan. That where the

549
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.880
heck is the ruling class that made
all this happen. Yeah, but let's

550
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:42.960
talk you're a mayaas let's talk Maya
for a minute. What you know,

551
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:47.920
Maya are noted as a pyramid culture. They are fixated on them. You

552
00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.199
know, they are engineered to perfection. We just before we got on,

553
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:58.440
we were talking about Richard Hansen in
Guatemala, who's at Elmador. Those are

554
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:06.000
some of the biggest is in North
America. Monstrosities, huge peas. Saying

555
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:13.400
that they're built to appease the gods, to honor the gods, wouldn't it

556
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.760
make more sense that they are they
have some other function that we just are

557
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.679
not aware of. Well, in
the case of the Maya, we have

558
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:25.599
the benefit of hieroglyphs that we are
still working on getting, you know,

559
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.719
all of them translated. But one
thing that is a clear pattern is that

560
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:37.519
when they do refer to pyramids,
the word for pyramid and the hieroglyphs is

561
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:45.039
tune wheats, which is stone mountain. So, and then the plazas out

562
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:51.039
in front of them are oftentimes referred
to as knob watery places, and the

563
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:58.119
steeler standing in those watery places at
the bases of the mountains are called tay

564
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:05.079
tune stone tree. So together they
really put together a picture that the Maya

565
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:12.800
are trying to recreate the natural environment
in man made form. And you know

566
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.719
a lot of the popele vu is
of course, you know this this creation

567
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:21.800
document that has given us a perspective
through which to interpret a lot of their

568
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.960
behavior. We know a lot of
that popele vu occurred in the Guatemalan highlands,

569
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:32.679
and they still refer to mountains there
and there today modern day keepers have

570
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:38.599
shrines on top of mountains that are
natural. So you know, a working

571
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:45.119
theory that I favor is that when
the Maya made their way down into the

572
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:51.719
flat lowlands of the Poten, they
lacked the mountains that were an essential part

573
00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:57.239
of their spirituality, so they built
them. Interesting, which are the pyramids?

574
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:06.639
That's gonna uh planky real quickly.
You're intricately involved. You've been there

575
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:10.840
multiple times, you surveyed it,
you hinted the last time we spoke that,

576
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:19.280
uh, they channeled and moved water
around. Do we see water running

577
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:23.599
underneath, say, the pyramid of
inscriptions where a pacall was found? Yeah?

578
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:29.119
We So there's actual running water underneath
that pyramid. Well, I kind

579
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:34.880
of think it's uh, it's plumbing, not not not a fancy spiritual thing,

580
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.639
but so it could be water to
man like uh cistern or something the

581
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:44.760
star water or what do we go? More like, there's there's a huge

582
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:50.199
amount of mountain right behind the temple
the inscriptions, and a lot of it

583
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:55.679
was was paved paid there. There
are four terraces leading up to a temple

584
00:56:55.800 --> 00:57:00.599
on top of the mountain be right
behind the crips. Nobody sees it today.

585
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:05.239
It all just looks like forest.
But I'm the guy who mapped it,

586
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:07.760
so I know there's a heck of
a lot of what you know what

587
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:15.800
modern city planning calls impervious cover.
They paved over where the water would normally

588
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:21.440
seep into the dirt of the mountain
side. Now they've created architecture that's going

589
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:27.840
to make the water rush over and
down onto the backside of the temple of

590
00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:32.960
the inscriptions, and so there is
where they put water features that would capture

591
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:39.320
that water and bring it safely under
the temple and then out under through underneath

592
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:45.360
the plaza so that it wouldn't erode
the backside of the temple and eventually destroy

593
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:49.800
it. So these are the are
these cement or are they mortar? Or

594
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:52.400
I mean what are they? Us? It's like the wastewater services in your

595
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.599
neighborhood. If they weren't there,
all the water would roll off the people

596
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:01.480
above your, above you and destroy
your house. So they really had their

597
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:06.480
hydraulics down, I guess, because
otherwise that city would be all over the

598
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:08.679
place. I mean, it's funny
that, you know, when it was

599
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:14.880
then we consider it an architectural marble. Here it's just that weird stuff that

600
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:21.079
the wastewater system builds us four monthly. It's your water and wastewater bill.

601
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:24.519
That's the same architecture, just you
know, a thousand years ago. I

602
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:28.800
mean, I've seen in other sites, uh, and I can't think of

603
00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:31.039
them right now. I think maybe
it was to Call or some other place,

604
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:39.840
really huge underground cisterns, these these
collection rooms that also have shafts where

605
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:45.519
the water was siphoned off. Do
you see that at a Polank, big

606
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:51.760
underground collections And there's not at Polank. There are other places, like you

607
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:55.199
know, especially up in the Pook
area from like ed Snaw and up into

608
00:58:55.320 --> 00:59:02.880
uschemal In those places which sisterns called
chiltons, Yeah, that oftentimes have very

609
00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:08.960
elaborate systems to fill them up through
the rainwater that falls there. But again

610
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:15.960
Plank A is in a position where
they have they have seven rivers running through

611
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:21.199
the city. They are never out
of water, and there's no way for

612
00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:30.760
the ruling class to uh withhold access
to water as a as a way to

613
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:36.239
gain political control over people. Everybody
in polank A has water. What the

614
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:42.320
city does for them in a public
works kind of way is create water control

615
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:49.519
infrastructure so it doesn't flood everywhere.
Aren't you out in California had a good

616
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.800
rain. I think you're pretty damn
familiar with this. This this flooding and

617
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:58.199
what you want your government to do
about it. Thing. Plink A was

618
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:02.599
much the same way. It's interesting. Pelegi is just one of the places

619
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:09.519
we're going to visit in November.
Close by is Bontompeck. I'm curious.

620
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:15.239
There's not a great deal known about
Bontompec other than these fascinating murals. But

621
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:22.280
what can you tell us about that
that location? Bonompeck is a treasure and

622
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.639
yes, you know it's really.
If it wasn't for the murals, I

623
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:31.159
think it would be another obscure site
that nobody ever visited. A little known

624
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:37.920
fact is there was actually a lot
of beautiful carving from there and for whatever

625
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.800
strange reasons, almost none of it
is on display at the site. There's

626
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:45.760
a bodega that has a couple of
stones in it that I was shown once,

627
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:49.800
but a lot of them are just
all over the world. If you

628
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:54.880
actually like look into the museum collections
around the world, there's a good thirty

629
01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:00.320
forty really beautifully carved monuments. Some
of them are small and some of them

630
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.880
are more steel as size, but
they're all over the place. But they

631
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:07.039
got kind of just sent out and
spread to the four winds. But the

632
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:15.760
music structure one has three rooms of
murals in them, and they are absolutely

633
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:21.960
the most incredible murals that we have
left in the Maya world. Let's talk

634
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.320
about them for a second. The
rooms are on top of what looks like

635
01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:31.840
kind of a pyramid shaped structure.
You have to actually climb up to get

636
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:38.239
to these little rooms. How did
they manage to stay in such pristine shape

637
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:44.000
after so many years? Were they
covered in dirt or mud or something?

638
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.519
No, you know, I still
think it's semi miraculous. I know the

639
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:52.159
explanation, but I don't think it
completely answers it for me. What the

640
01:01:52.519 --> 01:02:00.639
explanation that's put forward is that because
of cracks in the roof of that structure,

641
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:07.559
that temple one that were just right
that they dribbled down along the walls

642
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:17.400
thin coatings of of stucco or limestone
that kind of sealed the murals onto the

643
01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:22.119
wall. That it was. It
was basically like the drip inside of a

644
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:28.480
cave that creates stealagtites. That kind
of just sheets of water came down just

645
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:34.320
perfectly and cemented them to the wall, but in a sea through way.

646
01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:37.360
That's that's the explanation I've been told. I know, we've taken all of

647
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:43.800
that off now and it's still they're
still there. So you actually took that

648
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.760
cover, don't hold water. Yeah, they took they took that cover,

649
01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:53.039
and so what we see now actually
is very rich in color. I was

650
01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:57.400
looking at it the end of the
day. What are we actually we're looking

651
01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:04.840
at a procession In one wall,
there's pictures of slaves captive. Is it

652
01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:10.760
kind of a daily scene that we're
or is it signify something? Well,

653
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:15.519
there are actually three separate rooms,
and each one of them have a different

654
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:23.800
kind of event that's happening. Okay. Rue one seems to be primarily the

655
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:32.960
court scene of of Bonampak in the
seven nineties and seven ninety CE is when

656
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:39.800
the king that's there's a king named
Chan Mwan who's displayed in all three rooms,

657
01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:46.000
and in room one it seems to
be an air designation ceremony. There's

658
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:52.000
a little child being brought into the
room and there's a big band coming in

659
01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:57.760
and there's people from other cities that
are witnessing it, and the hieroglyphs say

660
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:03.519
it's an air designation ceremony that's occurring
in seven ninety two. Then the second

661
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:11.320
room is a battle that's happening,
and we know it's bonem Poc versus a

662
01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:16.840
site called socks c that was just
found like three years ago by Charles Golden,

663
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:19.960
and it's on the way to bonem
Pac. We can see it from

664
01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:24.679
the bus. I'll point it out
there it is. Maybe we'll even see

665
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:29.199
maybe we'll even catch Charles eating at
the We're gonna eat at the same breakfast

666
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:33.639
place that he stays when he's working
there. So it's the rainy season,

667
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:39.000
probably won't be there, but anyway, Sucksy and bonem Poc are fighting each

668
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:43.639
other and there's a huge battle being
waged on three of the walls. And

669
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:47.000
when you walk in and turn around
and look at the wall right behind you.

670
01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:51.880
When you step in, it's a
scene of after the battle where the

671
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:57.880
slave, where the prisoners are being
brought before the king, and some of

672
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.559
them have their fingernails ripped out out
and there's a head on one of the

673
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:05.920
steps. It's a real gruesome scene. But the details of the painting,

674
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:12.440
details of their faces are amazing.
That still kept fairly. It's so neat,

675
01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:14.840
and I, you know, I've
been going there for decades and when

676
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:18.159
I first went in there, you
could barely see it, and there was

677
01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:23.400
no road. I had to walk
like ten kilometers in to go see it.

678
01:05:23.480 --> 01:05:26.000
That's it, but I really wanted
to see it. Yeah. And

679
01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:30.159
then the second after that, Ena
had done this thing where they put acetone

680
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:33.679
on the wall and it really screwed
them up and they were looking worse than

681
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.440
ever, and I was like,
oh my god, we've ruined this beautiful

682
01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:42.800
thing. But then Ena redeemed themselves
by sending another crew in I'd say,

683
01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.400
you know, about eight years ago
now, and they did this new technique

684
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:49.880
and all of a sudden, the
colors pop back out and there are scenes

685
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:56.800
in the murals that I never saw
colors. I never saw it's really there.

686
01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:00.559
They're so beautiful looking now it's it's
amazing using what they've done. So

687
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:05.960
what what have they done to your
knowledge to preserve the rich color? Did

688
01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:11.119
they spray it with a coat of
something or do we know? I read

689
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:14.519
the paper, but I don't remember
the names of the chemicals, but there

690
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.880
was Okay, there's some very uh
like with with like Q tips kind of

691
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:28.280
process where they just they just spent
months conservators very carefully. I think it's

692
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.719
called the term. It's called like
descaling, like like when your pipes get

693
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:38.480
all hard, water makes them all
calcified. It was that kind of calcification

694
01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:45.159
and they just very painstakingly pulled the
calcification off and all the colors were still

695
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:50.920
under there. Interesting. It's funny
because I when I did my my little

696
01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:57.639
review of it, there was at
some point a number of frescoes there that

697
01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:01.719
have been I think the British took
some and the French took some, and

698
01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:06.920
there's very little left. But it's
they must have had a ceremonial It seems

699
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:14.400
like Bonnopex the ceremonial center, because
there's no pyramids of note like Oh there

700
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:17.440
are, they're just not visible off
in the woods. I've seen them,

701
01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:23.760
really big pyramid sections that nobody ever
goes to. You gotta go on the

702
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:26.679
there's a there's an old air strip, and if you go to the end,

703
01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:30.679
one end of the air strip and
go into the jungle. From there,

704
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:35.679
at a diagonal, there's a there's
a big pyramid. But as far

705
01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:41.639
as the settlement, like the actual
residential settlement, nobody's ever made a map

706
01:07:41.679 --> 01:07:44.800
of that, so we have no
idea how big the city is. I

707
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:47.480
suspect it's a heck of a lot
bigger than anybody knows. Real quickly,

708
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:51.800
on that note, why I mean
you do this fascinating, very important survey

709
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:57.079
of POLANKI, Why why haven't they
gone forward and done that with more of

710
01:07:57.079 --> 01:08:02.079
these smaller, lesser known side.
This is just the expense. It's the

711
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:09.239
expense. But it's also, unfortunately
just a political situation. Because Ena is

712
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:15.079
a government institution rather than an academic
institution, they spend more time politically one

713
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:20.039
up in each other than getting to
their job. Now that's it doesn't appreciate

714
01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:25.560
me saying that, but you know, you know things like you know Yashi

715
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:30.920
Lan's another one that we have no
settlement pattern survey at either one of those

716
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:35.840
two magnificent sites. And it gets
to be those are very famous, important

717
01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:41.840
sites. So when you get politically
to the position where you're the head archaeologist

718
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:45.880
there, you're not going to be
wasting your time getting mosquito bit up and

719
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:48.720
tore up in the jungle. You're
going to go straight into one of the

720
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:54.560
pyramids and find yourself a tomb.
It's it's hard to get. I'm I'm

721
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:59.680
a weird bird that I'm I'm trained
and educated enough to do it and roughneck

722
01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:03.920
enough to actually go do it well
or my people real quickly. Ena actually

723
01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:08.079
asked you to do it right.
Yeah, yeah, I mean so that

724
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:13.800
of course, that's a long many
decades now. But actually the World Monument

725
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:16.439
Fund asked me to do one on
yashi Lan, but Ena blocked me.

726
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:24.000
Oh oh, it was because the
U Samasinta is still They still want to

727
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:29.960
damn the U Samasinta and if they
do, yashi Lan goes completely underwater.

728
01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:34.199
Oh that's not good. Especially at
that time, Ena did not want the

729
01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:42.199
extra international press of a project finding
new and exciting things at yashi Lan when

730
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:46.720
they were quietly on board for flooding
it. Wow, so it's right on

731
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:50.840
the water. Let's talk real briefly
about Yashila. We're gonna be visiting that

732
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:57.560
as well on our tour November tenth
through the seventeenth. I was amazed that

733
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:02.760
this is another place that seems like
it's been and excavated by a number of

734
01:10:02.760 --> 01:10:06.720
different countries, Britain, French,
and I don't know who else, but

735
01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:14.640
they have and a number of amazing
lintels that are historic. And there's one

736
01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:18.600
that's very famous that's in the British
Museum that I saw, And I'm like,

737
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:23.560
damn, how am I gonna appreciate
this unless I go to Britain.

738
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:29.119
I was just there November, but
I wasn't paid attention to to Maya.

739
01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:34.560
I was paying attention to the Egyptian
collection. So what's important about that city?

740
01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:41.159
Is it just the fact that it's
uh strategically placed right on the water

741
01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:45.720
on the major river, or what
do we know about it? Well,

742
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:54.760
it certainly was a vital place for
trade and for roots, for for armies

743
01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:59.359
to pass back and forth through,
perfect place to cross the U Sama Senta

744
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:05.359
and this weird horseshoe of the kind
of horseshoe shape of the Usamacinta, so

745
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:12.439
it was a real control point for
trade down the river and crossing the river.

746
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:17.119
They had they had a huge suspension
bridge they built across the river that

747
01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:20.720
entire you know, an entire army
could walk across this thing in a day,

748
01:11:21.199 --> 01:11:25.720
where normally they'd have to figure out
some way to pour to everybody across.

749
01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:30.680
The bridge. Is one of the
architectural phenomenas of the Maya world.

750
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:34.039
All destroyed now, but if you
can still see the pylons of the bridge

751
01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:39.439
and wear it tied into either side. Yeah, but you know, on

752
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:44.199
another level, you know, for
me and you, I find Yashilan one

753
01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:49.760
of the most beautiful and romantic places
that the whole the Maya world has.

754
01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:55.479
The trip up the mist on the
river to get there, and then the

755
01:11:55.520 --> 01:12:00.640
way it's kind of just wedged into
a hillside, and there's nobody ever visits

756
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:02.720
there. When we go there,
we'll take an hour ride up the u

757
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:06.479
Samacina through the mist. In the
morning, we'll show up and I will

758
01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:13.520
be surprised if we see one other
tourists there. But it's so isolated,

759
01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:16.239
is it? Because you have to
take a boat and flow up the river

760
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:19.920
to get to it. Is that
why it's Yep, it's not easy and

761
01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:25.720
it's you know, I think a
lot of besides a couple of intrepid travelers.

762
01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:29.039
You either are in a group that
somebody knows how to get there,

763
01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:32.720
or it's, uh, it's kind
of spooky. People are like untrusting,

764
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:36.119
you know. The average Joe gets
to this little town a front terra corps

765
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:40.960
all and somebody says, getting my
boat and I'll bring you somewhere special,

766
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:47.359
Like, no, don't. Yeah, but I know the people there and

767
01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:51.319
I've got it all planned out for
have you. We have you to say

768
01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:56.079
no, don't get in that boat. Well that's when I've learned, like,

769
01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:59.840
don't be messing around with a crappy
motor boat. I always look at

770
01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:01.800
the motor like I don't like this
boat. I'm gonna go in your boat.

771
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:05.039
You're faster, you know, because
it takes a long time to get

772
01:13:05.039 --> 01:13:11.479
back and forth. Talk about this
couple of the buildings, Uh one,

773
01:13:11.960 --> 01:13:16.720
it looks like they call it a
maze. Yeah. I don't know why

774
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:23.119
the Maya would do this, but
it looks like it's for some ritual or

775
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:30.159
something. They create a building that
has weird turns and goes all over the

776
01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:34.600
place. What's that all about?
It's number one, It's it's fun.

777
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:40.239
The yeah, I saw that,
And there are so many weird little twists

778
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:43.680
and turns back there. You can
use your you know, your cell phone

779
01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:47.159
flashlight and get back in there.
And they are these huge spiders back in

780
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:50.640
there, the size of your head. It's really it's it's we're gonna have

781
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:55.039
to edit that out of there because
we have They don't they don't jump on

782
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.319
you. They don't jump on you
get a good picture of them, but

783
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:00.560
they look like they're like from an
alien world. They're really freaky spiders that

784
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.119
live in the darkness. Really,
but you know, to the purpose of

785
01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:10.560
them. A lot of people do
theorize exactly what you were just saying that

786
01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:17.359
these kind of dark underworld kind of
circumstances are places where shamans would go do

787
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:25.560
rituals. My old friend Alfonso Morallies
had written a whole series of papers about

788
01:14:25.640 --> 01:14:31.079
how shamans may go in there is
symbolically the kernel of corn and that like

789
01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:35.319
he had some ethnographies about people that
would go do that, and like the

790
01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:40.960
mites in their hair would mean that
they'll be pestilence in the crops and things

791
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:44.279
like that, and they'd stay under
there for a period of time and a

792
01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:48.520
kind of sensory deprivation, and then
emerge as the corn emerges from the ground.

793
01:14:49.840 --> 01:14:54.239
And maybe that's true, maybe that's
not for the past, we don't

794
01:14:54.239 --> 01:15:00.520
know. But architecturally speaking, these
labyrinths are not built from the get go

795
01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:04.479
to be a labyrinth. They are
a byproduct in most cases. For Shure

796
01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:10.960
Yoshi Lan, of an original set
of buildings that was just you know,

797
01:15:11.159 --> 01:15:14.359
had a number of rooms in it, and then as the maya loved to

798
01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:18.279
do, they build over them.
Usually they just fill in those rooms,

799
01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:23.920
but in a few cases, like
Yashi Lan, they decide to leave the

800
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:30.560
the that original building open and it
becomes kind of a basement or an underground

801
01:15:30.039 --> 01:15:36.279
of the new building. And so
there's buildings up on top that are on

802
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:40.680
the surface and have light coming in, and they're built on top of ones

803
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.960
that they intentionally leave open to be
kind of a lower story or basement.

804
01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:51.119
The palace at Point A is exactly
the same way. There is an underworld

805
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:58.960
of the palace and it is well
documented as the early version of the palace,

806
01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:02.680
and then subsequent kings built up over
it and instead of filling it in,

807
01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:10.359
they made it kind of the basement
of the palace. Interesting, fascinating.

808
01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:14.880
For those of you listening, Ed
will be leading our first ever tour

809
01:16:15.239 --> 01:16:21.600
to this location. It's our maya
of the of Tabasco and Chiapis. It's

810
01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:27.119
November tenth through the seventeenth. If
you want more information, you can go

811
01:16:27.159 --> 01:16:30.199
to earth Ancients dot com forward slash
chores. We have a couple of spots

812
01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:33.439
left. We're we're looking pretty good. But hey, we'll take a couple

813
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:36.319
more people. If you want to
join us, let me know. Also,

814
01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:40.199
if you want more information, send
me an email. Send it to

815
01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:45.319
earth Ancients the number four the letter
you at gmail dot com. If you

816
01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:49.039
have questions and I will answer them, or I'll forward it to Ed and

817
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:53.640
he can answer them to you for
you too, So I would be happy

818
01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:56.119
too. But by the way,
yes, we do really only have a

819
01:16:56.119 --> 01:17:00.039
couple of spots left. There's one
one particular part of the trip that I

820
01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:06.520
that I've just made sure is going
right. In Bonempock, the locking done.

821
01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:12.079
Indians have taken over the site.
They took it over like twenty five

822
01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:17.000
years ago. But you can't drive
your vehicle to the site. You have

823
01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:24.720
to stop about ten miles away and
get in locking dome vehicles and go up.

824
01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:29.119
And usually it's just what chever lock
and Done guy with his long hair

825
01:17:29.159 --> 01:17:31.119
and his robes hanging around, that's
going to drive you in his junkie van.

826
01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:34.359
But I was like, hold on, I'm showing up with Cliff,

827
01:17:34.399 --> 01:17:38.560
and I'm showing up with like,
you know, twenty plus people. I

828
01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:43.359
need to know that I have hired
people to bring us to the site.

829
01:17:43.399 --> 01:17:46.039
So I've got I already send people
out to the village and I have a

830
01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:53.319
guaranteed three vans and they'll hold you
know, Oh, that's interesting, depending

831
01:17:53.359 --> 01:17:56.760
on how many people graham in,
you know, the max thirty. Every

832
01:17:56.840 --> 01:18:00.640
time I see a picture of these
Indians that are wearing long white robes and

833
01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:04.479
kind of carrying staffs, like through
the low own the site. Ena takes

834
01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:09.520
a Ena takes a ticket in the
middle of the site. But the Lock

835
01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:13.239
and don bring you up there and
they guard the site. When we go

836
01:18:13.319 --> 01:18:17.800
to the murals, it's it's going
to be two Lock and Done guys that

837
01:18:17.800 --> 01:18:23.239
that very seriously guard them. They
and they have weird rules like take your

838
01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:26.560
hat off. Only one person in
at a time. Take your bag off,

839
01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:30.000
put it over here. I love
that kind of they're serious heart attack

840
01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:33.119
about protecting it. As long as
I don't have to drink any ayahuasca,

841
01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:38.319
I'm in good shape. No,
I that's that's a special charge. That

842
01:18:38.359 --> 01:18:41.960
could be a right. That's good. That's good to know. So that's

843
01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:45.479
gonna be fun November tenth through the
seventeenth. I'm looking forward to it.

844
01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:49.399
I have not been to that part
of Mexico and always wanted to see Polanky

845
01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:54.840
planky by itself as kind of the
crown jewel as we come to the end,

846
01:18:55.039 --> 01:18:58.039
and I wanted to ask you.
A book came out a few years

847
01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:03.199
ago on lenses and Robert Temple wrote
it. He wrote a book on various

848
01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:10.039
ancient lenses. He actually found that
lenses were carved back as early as I

849
01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:14.239
think he said ADBC could be eight
hundred, but I think it's ADBC.

850
01:19:15.319 --> 01:19:18.800
My question to you, and by
the way, the book is focused on

851
01:19:19.119 --> 01:19:26.359
museums that he traveled around the world
and found lenses and like lenses like in

852
01:19:26.439 --> 01:19:32.720
glasses, glasses and also for telescopes, right, okay, now here.

853
01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:38.720
My question has always been when we
see l Caracole, one of the big

854
01:19:38.800 --> 01:19:42.920
observatories of the Maya, and we
go to Maya Pan, and we go

855
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.479
to to Call and I'm sure you
can think of a bunch of other places

856
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:53.359
that have observatories. When we say
that the Maya didn't have lenses, it's

857
01:19:53.399 --> 01:19:58.680
becoming a problem for me simply because
of the details that they present in these

858
01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:04.680
codices of say Venus and the Moon. And I mean, isn't it possible

859
01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:10.680
what the Maya head of lenses?
Well, I mean, I guess we're

860
01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:16.039
gonna find itple I mean, we've
we in my estimation, we've excavated less

861
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:20.760
than one percent of the Maya world. Really, I would say, so,

862
01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:25.159
I mean that that is my estimate, and I would stand by it.

863
01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:29.840
And so you know, any any
responsible scientists trying to make hard conclusions

864
01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:33.720
based on a sub one percent sample
is an idiot. So there's a lot

865
01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:40.680
lots of things could be out there, But lenses are a non perishable thing.

866
01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:44.479
So that's the sort of thing that
we would find in the tombs of

867
01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:46.800
somewhere. I know, we you
know, we we actually excavated the tomb

868
01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:56.720
or the house of an astronomer in
site called Schultune in Guatemala and no lens

869
01:20:56.840 --> 01:21:00.000
there. I know, we have
obsidian mirrors, we have high right mirrors.

870
01:21:00.279 --> 01:21:04.439
Yeah, so that kind of reflection, yes, But to my knowledge,

871
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:10.000
I have never you know, we've
we've got we've got amber, we've

872
01:21:10.039 --> 01:21:13.680
got you know, I've seen things
made out of courts, but nothing that's

873
01:21:14.239 --> 01:21:18.600
nothing that's concave or even you know, even lens like at all. Yeah.

874
01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:27.399
Can you remember who excavated Chichi Nitsa
and actually began to consolidate el Karacole?

875
01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:32.680
Was it University of Pennsylvania or was
There were a number of parties,

876
01:21:32.720 --> 01:21:38.640
but I believe that the Carnegie Institution
Carnegie was the main one. Yeah,

877
01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:44.039
and there was the well, no, I was gonna say Augustus Leaplangon,

878
01:21:44.239 --> 01:21:47.159
but he did he didn't do mostly
the Temple of the Warriors and the ball

879
01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:50.000
court. He didn't mess with the
car Cole. I think the car Cole

880
01:21:50.119 --> 01:21:55.359
was almost entirely the Carnegie. Yeah. The thing that I the reason I

881
01:21:55.399 --> 01:21:59.159
asked that is I have found photographs
of when they first found it, and

882
01:21:59.239 --> 01:22:04.479
it's very, very dilapidated and fairly
I mean they had to guess probably a

883
01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:08.199
hell of a lot of them,
you know. And that's the big thing

884
01:22:08.199 --> 01:22:13.840
about reconstructing these buildings is that they're
so poorly so damage that you kind of

885
01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:15.680
had to figure it out as you
go, and you think it looks like

886
01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:19.920
it's true and there have been some
terrible jobs done, But I do,

887
01:22:20.079 --> 01:22:25.720
I do. I will say that
I think the car coal, at least

888
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:31.119
the things that I look at as
elements of confirming its identity as a as

889
01:22:31.279 --> 01:22:38.640
a observatory or connected to astronomy,
those were pretty solid. Like the two

890
01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:42.680
of them are the staircases that are
offset to one another, Yeah, and

891
01:22:42.760 --> 01:22:45.520
those are solid. I don't think
they're all rebuilt. Those those orientations are

892
01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:49.920
good. The other one is the
four doorways on the bottom. Those were

893
01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:54.159
pretty intact. I've seen the old
photos and those were intact. It's the

894
01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:59.680
upper part that's really screwed up.
Yeah, And there must have been a

895
01:22:59.680 --> 01:23:02.760
bun bunch of windows up there.
Now there are only three of them,

896
01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:09.159
and I think one of them was
reconstructed from a partial break and it's suspect.

897
01:23:09.560 --> 01:23:13.640
Yeah, but you know, when
you look at the air l caracole,

898
01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:17.800
you gotta walk up stairs and get
to the observatory portion was the base

899
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:21.600
filled with rooms and they just filled
it in or what because it looks like

900
01:23:21.640 --> 01:23:30.319
it would there could be a previous
phase inside that platform. I'm not sure

901
01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:34.319
about that, but it's solid and
then around like if you're walking up the

902
01:23:34.359 --> 01:23:41.079
staircase to the top to the right
side, there's a bunch of rooms that

903
01:23:41.159 --> 01:23:45.960
are that are a butt against its
platform, but don't go in the other

904
01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:49.319
side might have more rooms, but
it's in the jungle. I've never looked

905
01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:53.600
over there. It's a weird billion
years ago I had a chance to go

906
01:23:53.840 --> 01:24:00.640
into the bottom and see those two
curved shafts this big and he's on either

907
01:24:00.680 --> 01:24:02.640
side. Do you know what I'm
talking about. It's like, I don't

908
01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:05.119
know what I do. There's like
when you get to when you walk to

909
01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:13.520
the top of the stairs along the
observatory, the middle section, there's two

910
01:24:14.039 --> 01:24:19.760
pits on either side of the column
in the middle. Yeah, and there

911
01:24:19.880 --> 01:24:25.039
was a staircase that probably went up
that's not there and there there there,

912
01:24:25.079 --> 01:24:28.800
actually it is still there. There's
part of it was probably would Yeah,

913
01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:31.159
but I actually got to climb up
that staircase. That might never let me

914
01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:33.479
in at all. I'd ask and
they'd be like, no, get out

915
01:24:33.520 --> 01:24:40.359
of here. And then Japanese Public
Television invited me to do a documentary with

916
01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:43.680
them, and all of a sudden, amis like showed up with a ladder.

917
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:46.600
Yes, sir, here you go. Like the payment must have been

918
01:24:46.680 --> 01:24:55.840
good enough for them to allow they
liked the Japanese. Well we paid that

919
01:24:55.840 --> 01:25:00.319
that couple of times we took over
their country against US gringos. Well we

920
01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:03.359
paid twenty dollars a piece a group
of early tour a couple of twenty eighteen.

921
01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:08.359
They have the privilege of going up
there for half an hour. Well

922
01:25:08.439 --> 01:25:10.960
that's pretty nice. Yeah, nobody
ever gets to get up there anymore.

923
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:16.880
Well, Public Television Chichanitsa is now
completely roped off. All the buildings are

924
01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:21.479
roped off. It's really a sad
situation. It's yeah, and we've talked

925
01:25:21.479 --> 01:25:26.880
about it on other podcasts. It's
it is a sad situation. But you

926
01:25:26.920 --> 01:25:31.079
know, the ruins endure. They
do endure, and as always a wonderful

927
01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:38.000
pleasure speaking with you, and always
something to highlight. And I appreciate your

928
01:25:38.159 --> 01:25:41.359
your wisdom and your insight. You
got to write a book one of these

929
01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:44.199
days, my friend. I'm working
on a look at Look at My new

930
01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:48.399
scenario here. This is should mention
everybody that had picked up family at all

931
01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:55.760
and has moved from Austin, Texas. He's now a Colorado person and he's

932
01:25:56.239 --> 01:26:00.279
apparently enjoying it. So that's a
good that's a good side, perfect place

933
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:04.000
to start writing these books. Wonderful
ed as always a pleasure. Thanks for

934
01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:10.960
joining me and we'll look forward to
seeing you in November. Absolutely looking forward

935
01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:16.359
to it. Cliff, thanks for
inviting me again. I should have mentioned

936
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:29.119
before we had ed on that this
stars satellite scan synthetic aperture radar scan is

937
01:26:29.239 --> 01:26:34.079
quite frequently used for geological research and
most notably for volcanoes. I mentioned that,

938
01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:42.000
but I have been looking into it
for Mexican scans and I got an

939
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:45.520
email from Marco Vigato, who is
very much involved with ENA, which is

940
01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:54.920
the National Institute for Archaeological Research in
Mexico, and he's currently at meat La

941
01:26:54.960 --> 01:27:00.319
Wahaka, Mexico doing research on a
number of ancient sites there, most honorably

942
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:10.640
what appears to be an underground cavern
of extreme age that is very anomalous and

943
01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:15.560
they want to start looking into that
soon. But he would like to use

944
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:21.560
a SAR scan, not only for
meatla. But we both agree that scanning

945
01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:26.359
the Sun pyramid, if it's a
reasonable price, you know, if it's

946
01:27:26.359 --> 01:27:33.800
a few thousand dollars to point a
geological scanning satellite at a pyramid and have

947
01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:42.239
it uncover some similar data to the
Kufu pyramid, man, that would really

948
01:27:42.279 --> 01:27:48.199
really change our understanding for these early
meso American people. Now, I'm a

949
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:57.560
great believer that the Maya are descendants
of extremely advanced race and when they landed

950
01:27:57.720 --> 01:28:04.760
in Mexico or Migraine into Mexico,
they brought with them advanced cosmological data,

951
01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:12.079
astronomy, science, engineering, medicine, so forth, and so on that

952
01:28:12.199 --> 01:28:18.239
had been evolving over thousands of years
prior to their arrival. And so here

953
01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:26.760
we go. This is another group
pre Maya, which would probably fall into

954
01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:31.359
the last epoch of development, you
know, probably one hundred thousand plus years

955
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:45.199
of existence on the Earth and noted
research being done on energy and other sciences

956
01:28:45.279 --> 01:28:50.119
that are we're unaware of because they
developed in a whole different paradigm. We

957
01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:57.920
use generators from nuclear fusion. We're
just getting into solar power now. But

958
01:28:58.560 --> 01:29:08.479
I think that our predaces, the
earlier epochs used natural earth based geomagnetic energy,

959
01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:16.359
solar energy and other sources which were
less toxic to power machines and to.

960
01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:23.800
I believe there were flying vehicles and
there were also land based vehicles.

961
01:29:24.680 --> 01:29:27.840
The big question, of course is, you know, when we talk about

962
01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:35.000
that is what are these Maya roads
these highways as Richard Hansen likes to call

963
01:29:35.039 --> 01:29:44.920
them, And why would they develop
such a high regard for these suckbes,

964
01:29:45.039 --> 01:29:49.279
these white roads that the Maya built
and ran for hundreds of miles everywhere,

965
01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:55.560
not having the wheel and so forth. This is becoming a joke. You

966
01:29:55.600 --> 01:29:59.800
can't claim that you know and to
and to just to say that these to

967
01:30:00.199 --> 01:30:04.319
that have wheels on them are just
anomalies, that doesn't cut it. They

968
01:30:04.359 --> 01:30:10.119
must know something, so we're going
to help them. It's like same situations.

969
01:30:10.239 --> 01:30:17.439
The SAR scanning device is I believe
the same revolutionary technology as lighter and

970
01:30:17.479 --> 01:30:24.039
we all know about lightar what it's
done for archaeology. It's changed, it's

971
01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:30.000
changed their perspective on ancient cultures,
and so I think SAR scans will do

972
01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:34.279
the same. So we'll find out. I'll be reporting on that if something

973
01:30:34.319 --> 01:30:41.920
breaks and Marco or I find out
what's going on, and we can actually

974
01:30:42.039 --> 01:30:46.439
point one of these satellites at a
pyramid that we know is older. Let

975
01:30:46.479 --> 01:30:50.880
you know, one of the things
that comes to mind when we're talking about

976
01:30:51.079 --> 01:31:00.920
meso American pyramid science is the work
of the researcher John Burke, and in

977
01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:08.640
his book he basically goes around the
world, using very very sophisticated equipment and

978
01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:15.239
testing it sites pyramids, land masses, megalists, and buildings to determine if

979
01:31:15.279 --> 01:31:21.199
they're sitting on lay lines, which
number of early cultures did. I think

980
01:31:21.239 --> 01:31:25.479
this leads back to their I mean
really, I talk about this all the

981
01:31:25.479 --> 01:31:29.159
time when we go to Egypt and
we're at the hath Or Temple, or

982
01:31:29.159 --> 01:31:33.920
we're at the Kufu Pyramid, or
we're at probably half of the places that

983
01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:40.840
we visit on our tour, that
those places are from the earlier epoch,

984
01:31:41.920 --> 01:31:48.159
an earlier civilization that really worked with
geomagnetic energy, earth based gravitational energy,

985
01:31:48.399 --> 01:31:53.239
and that's and they sit on lay
lines. They sit on these arteries that

986
01:31:53.359 --> 01:31:58.960
are passing energy and it bubbles up
through the building and they were able to

987
01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:03.439
catch, capture it, intensify it, and in some cases use it as

988
01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:09.960
a form of technology. And this
is what the Kufu Pyramid is looking to

989
01:32:10.039 --> 01:32:14.279
be more and more ash And we'll
hear about that from Chris Den. It

990
01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:21.920
looks like they captured this energy and
probably added other elements and combusted them and

991
01:32:23.000 --> 01:32:26.960
there you go. Some form of
energy was created. And I'm a firm,

992
01:32:26.960 --> 01:32:30.560
firm believer. And I'm not going
to give away my book because I

993
01:32:30.600 --> 01:32:34.479
want you to buy it. But
this table tiba Kan the Quitzoquado Pyramid that

994
01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:40.079
we had a chance to visit on
our tour a couple of years ago with

995
01:32:41.479 --> 01:32:47.279
doctor Gomez, that is a machine. I'm a firm believer of it.

996
01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:56.399
It's a machine so lots to consider, lots of amazing possibilities, and it's

997
01:32:56.439 --> 01:33:00.840
exciting. It's really exciting. I
mean I I would not have ed on

998
01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:08.840
the program if he was not at
least transparent about his beliefs and his wonderful

999
01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:14.880
openness and willingness to see the data
report on it from his perspective and where

1000
01:33:14.920 --> 01:33:18.720
it shows promise actually acknowledge that rather
than saying, oh, you're you know,

1001
01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:21.479
you're full of crap. Yeah,
I don't believe that for a minute.

1002
01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:30.920
That kind of attitude is prevailent in
the academic world, and it's being

1003
01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:35.159
shot down more and more. And
I think when we get academics on the

1004
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:41.199
program, like doctor Karakuni, who's
an Egyptologist who, by the way,

1005
01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:43.279
we'll have on at the end of
the year. She's got a new book

1006
01:33:43.279 --> 01:33:50.880
out. When she says things like
Egyptology is dead, she's right because they're

1007
01:33:50.920 --> 01:33:56.640
out of touch. Zahihiwat Well,
I shouldn't be naming names. You know

1008
01:33:56.640 --> 01:34:02.760
who I'm talking about. The so
far figure the noted figureheads of that discipline

1009
01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:10.800
are just lost, and they continue
to be lost as more science comes into

1010
01:34:10.840 --> 01:34:17.800
play. They have no response to
this stars scan. They have no I

1011
01:34:17.840 --> 01:34:20.720
mean, they just shoot it.
They want to shoot it down. And

1012
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:26.840
this has been happening for decades.
When John Anthony West and Robert Shock met

1013
01:34:26.960 --> 01:34:33.920
for a geological review and Mark Lerner
was in the audience and part of a

1014
01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:39.840
response group, the only thing that
Larner could say is, you think there's

1015
01:34:39.880 --> 01:34:45.279
an earlier civilization, an earlier earlier
epoch. Show me the pot shards.

1016
01:34:45.640 --> 01:34:51.359
Well, at that point, the
great discoveries at Sakara had not been discovered.

1017
01:34:51.800 --> 01:34:58.079
Now we know there's thousands of pot
shards that show that this earlier epoch

1018
01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:01.479
was extremely advanced, as I actually
have a couple of those pot shards from

1019
01:35:01.560 --> 01:35:08.760
Sakara, and it's obvious that these
bulls, places, vases and so on

1020
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:15.680
were cut with lathes, high powered
lathes, and they're gorgeous, and when

1021
01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:20.720
they were first discovered over a decade
ago, you could buy one for a

1022
01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:26.359
few hundred bucks. Now you see
him on Southern bees for ten twenty thousand

1023
01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:31.399
dollars. A simple granite vase or
a plate or whatever. They're gorgeous,

1024
01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:39.279
but the words out there a phenomenon. So if we had had that that

1025
01:35:39.399 --> 01:35:45.079
material to show Learner, he would
have thought twice about saying, where's the

1026
01:35:45.079 --> 01:35:51.039
pot shards that reveal who this earlier
civilization is. It's a challenge, but

1027
01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:55.920
I guess that's what it's all about, is to help the old guard,

1028
01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:04.680
the Orthodoxy understand that their theories and
their statements about history are fading quickly and

1029
01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:10.399
they need to reveal they need to
understand what science is helping them with.

1030
01:36:10.520 --> 01:36:15.520
And this is another issue when it
comes to Egyptology, is the fact that

1031
01:36:15.600 --> 01:36:21.079
it is not necessarily a science.
So we don't want to get into this.

1032
01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:24.279
We don't want to bash people because
I have a lot of friends that

1033
01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:29.199
are anthropologists and archaeologists. But you
know, we've heard Gendeo, We've heard

1034
01:36:29.239 --> 01:36:35.039
other archaeologists who are pushing the envelope
of change. I think Ed's in that

1035
01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:45.079
ballpark two and now it's it's kind
of fun to be studying this and interviewing

1036
01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:50.880
people each week that are the movers
and shakers for these upcoming changes. And

1037
01:36:51.079 --> 01:36:59.800
in some ways we are rewriting history
now. A lot of the people that

1038
01:36:59.800 --> 01:37:03.760
are on this program or writing books
and talking about their discoveries. I think

1039
01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:13.239
Graham is Graham Hancock most likely is
the true historian because he pulls together and

1040
01:37:13.399 --> 01:37:21.279
he does it so eloquently different features
of a topic, quantify, qualify,

1041
01:37:21.359 --> 01:37:30.000
and so on the data and presents
it in a real revolutionary manner. He,

1042
01:37:30.680 --> 01:37:36.239
above anybody else, is in a
position to debate professors of archaeology and

1043
01:37:36.279 --> 01:37:42.000
so forth. And by the way, I believe that he was going to

1044
01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:47.319
be debating on Joe Rogan's program,
a noted tenured professor of archaeology that has

1045
01:37:47.359 --> 01:37:54.720
been canceled, and I think it's
being moved to early twenty twenty four,

1046
01:37:54.720 --> 01:38:00.960
But don't I don't remember what's going
on. I hate to see that because

1047
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:09.319
you got two opposing opinions showing,
you know, kind of pushing the topic

1048
01:38:09.399 --> 01:38:12.359
out there and showing their cards and
saying this is what I see, and

1049
01:38:12.359 --> 01:38:15.640
then the other persons what they see. I don't think I don't think that's

1050
01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:21.239
a good thing to do. I
think the better situation is to just let

1051
01:38:21.279 --> 01:38:30.279
it happen rather than fighting with you
know, decades of orthodoxy. Don't fight

1052
01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:32.279
it, you know, just show
this is what I'm finding, you know,

1053
01:38:32.680 --> 01:38:42.640
as these scientific products are bringing to
bear their technology and we're looking and

1054
01:38:42.680 --> 01:38:48.720
we're piercing the veil of these ancient
societies, light OAR, SAR, whatever

1055
01:38:48.720 --> 01:38:54.039
else comes up. You remember a
while ago I was talking about some MIT

1056
01:38:54.520 --> 01:39:00.319
kid creating a scanner to scan abilities
and stuff. SAR scanning technology is kind

1057
01:39:00.319 --> 01:39:04.239
of like that. It's like it's
just changing the name, is changing the

1058
01:39:04.239 --> 01:39:12.600
game. And so rather than fighting
and I really wish that Graham would not

1059
01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:18.000
debate anybody because it's just it's just
stressful, upsetting, and it can it's

1060
01:39:18.039 --> 01:39:23.000
embarrassing. I think it's embarrassing and
it doesn't need to happen. I'd rather

1061
01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:27.439
just have them post their work and
let the new talk technology and the new

1062
01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:32.239
breed of researchers come out and say, hey, we're going to change the

1063
01:39:32.359 --> 01:39:39.920
narrative. There is a new history
that is evolving. Here's the beginning,

1064
01:39:40.279 --> 01:39:43.520
here's the middle, and here's what
we think the end is. I have

1065
01:39:43.640 --> 01:39:49.800
to believe that it's part of this
epoch discussion. The earliest, the most

1066
01:39:49.840 --> 01:39:59.119
recent epoch that passed during this Earth
wide catastrophic event was very sophisticated and they

1067
01:39:59.199 --> 01:40:04.840
left hence everywhere. So that would
be the foundation for any discussion on a

1068
01:40:05.319 --> 01:40:11.399
previous history. So fun, fun
stuff to talk about. Hey, real

1069
01:40:11.479 --> 01:40:15.399
quickly, we have a couple of
tours coming up. You heard Ed mentioned

1070
01:40:15.680 --> 01:40:18.920
our annual trip to Mexico. That's
November tenth to the seventeenth. We have

1071
01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:21.760
a couple of spots left, and
as he said, we really do.

1072
01:40:21.960 --> 01:40:26.960
We're we're really at our limit,
but we'll take a few people if you

1073
01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:30.600
want more information on this or any
of our tours. Egypt's coming up real

1074
01:40:30.680 --> 01:40:35.800
quickly. That's April twenty eighth through
May nine, twenty twenty four, and

1075
01:40:35.840 --> 01:40:41.520
then we have Turkey. If you're
interested in any Earth Ancients tours. First

1076
01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:46.640
of all, be aware that our
tours are half the price of a typical

1077
01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:54.039
tour fifty percent off, and their
VIP they're just the best. Egypt,

1078
01:40:54.119 --> 01:41:00.800
most notably is very very very very
swank and they just take care of everything.

1079
01:41:00.840 --> 01:41:04.199
It's fantastic. If you want more
information, go to earth Ancients dot

1080
01:41:04.239 --> 01:41:10.680
com Forward slash Tours and check it
out. It is fantastic. Our tours

1081
01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:15.600
are fun, informative, and they
are enlightening. So come out and join

1082
01:41:15.680 --> 01:41:21.800
us earth Ancients dot com Forward slash
Tours. Okay, that's it for this

1083
01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:26.920
program. I want to thank my
guest today, doctor Edwin Barnhardt, coming

1084
01:41:26.960 --> 01:41:30.000
to us from his new digs in
Colorado. As always, the team of

1085
01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:35.039
Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and everyone
who makes this thing happen. Thank you,

1086
01:41:35.720 --> 01:41:39.800
and you guys rock all right,
take care of be well and we

1087
01:41:39.840 --> 01:42:30.960
will talk to you next time.
The time that the shish lit