What is up, Fellows Thermonuclear A after his I am Dan Valley coming at
you with another twenty twenty three twenty four NBA look Ahead. We're onto the
team that inspired the Thermonuclear af dagline, the Utah Jazz, and that means
I get to speak with my guy, Tony Jones of the Athletic. He
covers the Utah Jazz and the entire NBA for them does a fantastic job.
This is year three, Tony, of You're agreed to come back on and
so I tell when you make a third appearance, it's your fault. Like
the first two, I might have tricked you, but now you know where
you're getting into it. So I appreciate you coming back, but it's also
a little bit your fault because now you've agreed to it a third time.
But I mega appreciate it. Well, my thing is that you know what
I'm saying, like I need, I need, I need reasons for for
people to listen to me. So you know, your show was one of
the best out there. So you know, I figure if I come on
your show, that's that's going to be all to the good for me.
Well, that means a lot coming from someone as talented as yourself, how
are you doing? Not the off season anymore? I mean, did you
have a good off season? I had a short off season, a lot
shorter than than normal. But I thought that I thought, you know,
once you got out of the summer league, you know, I got a
chance to spend some time with the family and you know, do some of
the things that that actual normal people do. And I didn't have to chase
around the Donovan Mitchell trade this year. So that was that that was even
that was even better. Oh yeah, that was absolutely chaos last year.
I do remember though, when we were recording last year, I was so
low on what the Jazz were going to be. And so my first question
to you, aside from admitting that I think a lot of people are wrong
about them, how much, if at all, did like that first part
of last year. We're like, you know, you even lead into February,
first top five offense, your one game over five hundred, you even
had some like higher end stretches before that. How much did that alter like
the way the organization viewed their team or was going to treat this rebuild.
And even if it's just a matter of they didn't expect Lowry to be this
good, and that of course changes things to some degree. It didn't.
I don't think it also did a lot because and the reason why I said
that is because they still went and did what they thought was best for the
long term health of the organization. Right. So, you know, they
could have kept Conley, Mike Conley, They could have kept Malik Beasley and
Jared vana Bolt, three guys who are really helping the Jazz in terms of
getting wins and losses. And the Jazz could have made the playoffs last year
at the very least, they could have made the play in and they said
no to that. They shipped the veterans off, and you know, they
they handed the rings to uh to the young guys and and you know,
they got the lottery pick that they thought they you know, that was was
best for them. So you know, they you know, they they overachieved
to a real degree, but they had to scale back a lot in order
to be non competitive enough too. You know, there were guys sitting left
and right in Marching in April, and it was it almost became a running
joke because it was like, oh, well, you know, Jordan Clarkson
is now sitting out, this has to do the trick. That didn't do
the trick. Well, we're just not going to bring Collin Sexton back that
do the trick. I didn't do the trick. Oh well okay, let's
sit Lowry Marketing. That didn't do the trick. It was still competitive and
they you know, then it was Walker Kessler, you know, I mean,
you know, Chris, they were playing Chris Dunn and Lukasamonich and and
you know, real deep bench guys. By by the end of the season.
I mean, Johnny Jusan was getting was getting major minutes by the end
of the season. So you know, they they were, you know,
really really competitive. Obviously, they ca they got off to the ten and
three start. You know, I remember, you know, having a conversation
with Mike Conley and and you know he's saying, hey, if if they
really want to be bad, they're going to have to trade me. And
you know he said that in like October and then they could get out and
start ten and three. So you know, they they did what was best
for the long term health of the organization, you know, but it was
definitely a fun year and an interesting year to cover. Do you think they
were even in internally caught off guard by how good they were out of the
gate, and then like, could they have been caught in the middle of
them? Should we be like tearing this thing down a little bit sooner so
that we can you know, be in the actual Wemby sweepstakes or adjacent to
it, rather than competing for what is like, you know, tenth or
ninth or eighth, the eighth pick in the draft. Even before the season,
I don't think that they thought they were going to be bad enough to
be and truly sweepstakes. Ah, they knew and this this would this bore
out over the year, but they knew how good the coach was that they
were hiring, Okay, and they were I mean, Will Hardy basically blew
away the interview process, blew the Jazz away. He was he was de
pick. And the Jazz suspected that, you know, Hardy was going to
make them competitive enough that they weren't truly going to be in the Winby swoop
stakes, Like they weren't gonna be bottom five bad, bottom three bad.
You know what what it kind of ultimately took for them for San Antonio to
get Wimby, and you know, it just really bore out over time.
You know, they were competitive. Will was, you know, great in
terms of being schematic, but he was even better than that in the locker
room. Guys played really really hard for him. Uh he made a lot
of right choices, and you know, ultimately they were just too well coached
team to to to to just be that bad. So you know, I
thought that the Jazz had an inkling of that before the season even started.
One of my it's thought of like a generational what if, But like if
they had never made the trades, I'm just curious what would have happened with
the Coach of the Year voting in Will Hardy if you keep Mike Conley on
this ross Ricky bet roster and tis curious he finish high enough? All what
was he third? Or can't remember like what you have won? If this
team is stay together. So that's just that's just a random what if.
But looking at this offseason that they just went through, did they kind of
reinforce that they're still all about the bigger picture based off not even what they
did, but kind of what they didn't do or you didn't see them kind
of aggressively trace like Chase excuse me, like any conventional floor general or even
go after like more more wing type players. Well, they chased Drew Holiday,
so I don't know that. I don't know that, you know,
that's completely accurate. They wanted Drew Holiday, and you know, they they
were very interested in him, and interested enough to make a firm offer for
him. You know. The thing with the Jazz right now is that,
you know, they think that they are in a position to rebuild on the
fly. They don't believe that they have to go nineteen and sixty three over
the next five seasons in order to rebuild. They think that they can incorporate
their young players and you know, basically build around hour marketing and use the
assets that they have to be a significant trade threat, all while winning basketball
games. And you know, so you know, if if they make the
playoffs, or they make the play in this year, or they're in contention
for that this year, I don't expect to see them pull the plug on
that. And you know, I think that they see this as you know,
or rebuild where there's an avenue that they can be really competitive and you
know, maybe even you know, contention competitive very quickly, not this year,
you know, I think, you know, this year, I think
that you know, they have a roster that has a ceiling of six and
a floor of eleven or twelve, and that's going to be and it's going
to be solely dependent on I don't want to say solely dependent on, but
it's going to be really dependent on how how well how well a guard play
is. But you know, they don't believe that they're that far away,
you know. So I think that you know, the Jazz are going to
come out and try to be as competitive as possible. I think that they
want to win at as higher level as possible because I think that, you
know, I think the Lowry marketing his career, like he's going into season
eight and he's not been into the playoffs. I think that, you know,
that's a that's a significant goal for Lowry as an individual. So you
know, and they have, you know, more assets than anybody other than
Oklahoma City, and you know, and and I believe they intend to use
it and try to make a significant splash pretty quickly. So there they wouldn't
be a team that let's just say, if they're good enough, like,
they wouldn't be a team. You don't think that would shy away from making
a mid season move, or if the right, if they deem someone the
right on the trade market goes out there, we're Oklahoma City's telegraphed. No,
we're not doing that, Like that's just not going to happen. You
think Utah's a base I mean, if they pursued Drew Holiday, it seems
like they're way more open to going that route. No, they're not.
There're two things. I believe that they're not afraid to be a buyer if
that's the way the season goes. I don't think they're afraid to be a
seller if that's the way the season goes. And I don't I don't believe
that they're afraid to make a consolidation move in the backcourt at some point in
this season. So I do think that there are a couple of ways that
this season can go that that could dictate, you know, the Jazz making
as seismic shift in January or February. But you know, I think a
lot of it's going to depend on what the first twenty five first thirty games
look like. What do you make of the John Collins fit with this team,
and kind of what it does to the front court rotation and even just
the wing rotation where yeah, we saw Lowry play tons of three. We
know we can do it, but like now you've basically decided you can get
to minutes with when Lowry's at the four. But like now, Lowry is
just a wing. And so I'm just curious as to what your your thoughts
are on the Collins fit it and it's overarching impact on how the rosters sort
of run. Well, it's interesting. I mean, you know, I
think the Jazz looked at John Collins as a way to get you know,
somebody who they think can be dynamic for you know, basically for free.
They didn't have to give up anything. Rudy Gay was a missing piece and
Atlanta just gave him away after they got him. I can't believe it.
I'm shocked. Yeah, but you know he's going to be down missing piece
for the Warriors too. That's what That's the buzz that this is the time
we get. That's the buzz coming out of training Cab is that he's going
to be the one that get there. I actually think he has a chance
to make that roster. I actually, if I had to pick right now,
I'd be shocked if he didn't make it. I think he is going
to make a roster. But that Dan said, you know, John's fit
is is going to be an interesting one, right because you know, here's
a guy who at the apex of his career and he's still only twenty six
years old, but at the apex of his career he was a twenty ten
guy. He averaged twenty one points ten rebounds a game in twenty nineteen,
and then the production, you know, significantly fell to the point where it
was a significant fall this year. I believe he averaged thirteen points a game
last year. You know, so shot like negative from three or whatever.
He did not shoot well from three. He was a square pegging around hole
in that offense towards the end of his tenure there, and you know,
it was clear for a while that you know, he and that organization we're
headed for a divorce. So, you know, he's a guy who I
believe makes the jazz from very athletic, you know, between you know,
he's an above the rim guy. Lollry marketing is about and above the rim
guy. You know, So he doesn't put the ball well on the floor,
put ball on the floor well you know, so he's going to have
to, you know, in some some respects be depending on his guard play.
So that's going to be really really interesting. But you know, how
well does he shoot the ball? Can he get back to thirty five percent?
Can he get back to thirty six percent from three? If he doesn't,
then you know, then you have to wonder about some of the spacing
within the offense. Can he play a little bit of you know, small
ball five? Can he exist in that in that realm? You know,
it's it's going to be really interesting to see how well he's incorporated in Will
Hardy's offense, which emphasizes movement and you know, coming down off of pin
down screens, you know, doing a lot of stuff off the move that
he frankly hasn't done in Atlanta in a very long time, if ever.
You know, So it's he's he's definitely in a new spot, and he's
definitely in a in a different spot in his career on and off the floor.
Yeah, he's I'm still a big John Collins believer. I think a
lot of hand stuff still flew under the radar last year with his shooting,
and they just you kind of alluded to this Atlanta just continued continuously marginalized him
on offense. They saw what he did best, and they kept moving him
away from his strength. It made no sense. I think the shooting's big
just because this was a team that didn't set and because of its guard play
this year, there might not be too reliant on a ton of ball screens.
And even if you are, unless he is going to play some five,
like you said, he's not going to be like the primary screen setter.
So you need that shooting or at least the ability. He didn't really
have to move off the ball a ton in Atlanta, as you already mentioned.
So need the ability to knock down those shots or at least to get
moving because that's how he's going to generate his offense. If he's playing next
to Walker Kessler would be my guest, right right, So I mean,
you know it's gonna be you know, and and Will is such a smart
coach that they're gonna find ways to get him involved in pick and roll.
You know. For instance, they were playing Portland last night and he and
Taylor Horton Tucker ran two or three side pick and rolls with you know,
you know, the configuration is you know, Taylor and John on the side
with you know, Lowry spacing on the wing, Walker Kessler actually spacing in
the corner, and you know, Jordan Clarkson spacing you know, basically about
to break at the top of the key, so you still had the space
and you know, but it was it was a little different the way the
way they configured it, and you know, they scored off of it.
You know, Sailor actually made a really nice pocket pass and you know,
and they scored off of it. So it was it was definitely interesting to
see some of the scheme. That guy might be one of the most frustrating
players I've ever watched, where it's like he always does like two or three
things every night and I'm like, oh yeah, and then there's like another
seven or eight instances where I'm like, oh no. And so but that
related to that. So you mentioned Will Hardy a couple times already. What
have we learned about how the Jazz are gonna play stylistically at both ends?
And I know they changed a little bit of stuff defensively in the middle of
last season, and like just the roster churn, Like what can we expect
with are they going to look to. You know, they really shot up
their offensive pace last year after the trade deadline. Is that something we would
expect to stick? Is there still gonna be that commitment? I mean there
will be. Just what is their offensive rebounding rake going to be with Walker
Kessler and John Collins on the floor at the same time. Just what did
we learn stylistically about what Will Hardy wants to in part on this team at
both ends? Well, this is actually where I think the Jazz have a
real significant strength. They're very big. You know, Walker Kessler's seven foot
maybe even seven to one. Liary Marketing in the seven foot John Collins is
six' nine. But they're unique in the fact that they are not big
and slow. They're big and athletic. Liary Marketing is one of the more
athletic guys in the league, and so is John Collins. And I consider
Walker Kesler one of the most athletic centers in the league in terms of how
fast he runs the floor from in the end. So they played really fast
last night against Portland. You know, they got a lot of shots up,
they got a lot of possessions, they got the ball and bounds fast.
They pushed their sets were really crisp. They ran through their such they
knew what they wanted to do, you know, so they they were really
they were really fast, and it'll be interesting to see if they continue to
play that way, to continue to play fast, because if they can and
they don't actually kick the ball out of bounds every third possession, third or
fourth possession, they're going to be more athletic than a lot of the teams
that they face. And you know, they're a very collectively athletic team.
And it seems really crazy to say that about the Utah Jazz because for so
long, you know, basically for you know, ninety seven percent of their
existence, they've been plotting, and you know, they had a three percent
they had a three percent existence where you know, Darren Williams was like that
point guard in the league, and they played fast because Darren was just like,
listen, I'm not slowing down for anybody. But other than that,
you know, they they haven't been a fast team that played really vertically.
They've been a team that that kind of out executed you. And this team
is going to be fast and it's going to be vertical. So I think
it's going to be really interesting to see what the contrast to that is.
Speed can also help you offset maybe some of the concerns you have about the
guard play where it's okay, well, we have guys who will be the
lead ball handlers, but none of them are necessarily conventional table setters, and
so what do you sort of I had so many questions about the backcourt that
I include the outline people, what do you just make of this backcourt structure
right now? I think I guess the one place to start that's where like
is it feels like Kanta George is gonna play like a major role right like
in his rookie season. At some point would that be? Would that be
accurate? Well, I believe he's going to be in the rotation from night
one, and I believe that, you know, at bitch, some point
between now and opening night in twenty twenty four, he'll be the starting point
guard. If he's not the starting point guard by opening night twenty twenty four,
something went wrong like he's either hurt or he has not played anywhere near
to where to what the Jazz think be. And I believe that, you
know, the Jazz are putting him in a rotation with the expectation and the
hope that he gets to the point where they can start him. You know,
I don't want to say sooner rather than later, but you know soon,
you know, they don't they they think he They clearly think he's the
point guard of the future, and they're going they're going to give him minutes
right now. What is it like? Do you have any general impressions of
his game, even based on what we've seen in some leag What is he
bringing to this team out of the gate? I think that right now he's
the second best passer on the roster behind Kelly Olynik. I think that he's,
you know, positively dynamic off the dribble. I think he's very athletic
for a point guard. He's capable of playing above the rim. I think
he's a three level scorer. But I think the reason why I do agree
that he probably shouldn't start right now is that, you know, he's got
to learn how to He's got to learn two things. He's got to learn
how to run an NBA team, and he's got to figure out the NBA
from a defensive standpoint. You know, I believe that if you start him
at the point guard tomorrow, I believe that he can probably give you somewhere
between fifteen and seventeen points in five to seven and sists a night, probably
right off the bat. But you're gonna lose a lot of games because of
the stuff that he doesn't know. So, you know, if the Jazz
want to win games and they want to be competitive as competitive as possible,
it makes sense to spoon feed him those minutes. Try to, you know,
get him in the right spots to where his strengths offensively are accentuated.
But you're hiding in swarts defensively and otherwise, and just until he's ready and
until he really learns you know, the NBA game. To me, if
if I make an analogy, you know, it's probably like you have a
picture that goes through the batting order twice, and you see the batting order
twice, right, and the batting order sees the picture twice, and then
by the turn time around in the batting order, what happens you t you
off on that picture because you've seen the you've seen him twice now, right,
I think you know with with Keyante, you know, have him go
around the league once, have n't go around the league twice? Then maybe
by February January, late January or February, he's ready to take over the
roll. Is there like a chance that he's just going to be their best
off the dribble jump shooter out the gate When you kind of look at the
rest of the personnel on this roster, not most confident because we know that'll
be Jordan Clarkson. There's a chance, there's a non zero chance because he
you know, he does things that he does things offensively that you can't teach.
You know, the way he can snake, the way he can snake
a pick and roll, you know, take advantage of a big and drop,
you know, push him, put him with an aggressive dribble and then
pull up on the dime and make a three. You know, you can't
teach stuff like that. The way he can get downhill, stop on the
dime, get him in range, you can't teach that. Get to the
basket. He cuts without the ball, so he moves well without the ball.
So he's a little unique there because a lot of a lot of ball
in hand scores who have his profile don't really move well without the ball,
and Kyante actually moves well without the ball. And you know, he's a
much better passer than I thought he was a year ago at this time,
and he makes he's made better reads as the year is going on. You
can tell that his year at Baylor did his game a lot of good and
that he really took the coaching Scott Drew's coaching there, because you know,
I've been watching Kyante play, you know, probably since he was about fifteen,
sixteen years old, and you know, not you know when he got
the bailor, you know, he wasn't he wasn't the pastor that he is
now. He's just a much better passer than he was at this time last
year. So you know, he's he's he's a guy who's just really talented
offensively, and he's also got the mental headspace that you know he's going to
keep coming at you. He's a guy that can be two for fifteen and
still make five shots at the end of the game to beat you. So
you know, for him, you know, even with you know, all
of his natural talent and his natural ability, you know, it's just about
learning to think of the parts of the game that you can teach, and
you know, learning some of that stuff and getting stronger and getting his body,
you know, more NBA ready or more centric, because there's a big
difference in his body in Schoot Henderson's body right now, which I kind of
took note of last night. Take note. But you know, the skill
set is there, man, They're just things that he does right now that
the rest of the roster doesn't do. And so it's just him learning,
you know, the game before you give him the keys. How do you
feel about how reliant they are on Jordan Clarkson to continue making at least in
the beginning of the see the incremental improvements. Is sort of like a leadish
type playmaker. I thought he made strides last year. It wasn't pretty a
lot of the time, but he was making an effort, it felt like
to defer when he's getting downhill in ways that he was not in previous years.
What did you sort of make of that experience? And is a reasonable
expect that maybe he'll be more comfortable doing that stuff this season? Well?
To me, I mean, you look at the guy like Jordan Clarkson,
and that's that's the effect of Will Hardy's coaching. You know, Will ask
him to be a player that he's never been at any point in his career
that he's never tried to be and you know he did it and he pulled
it off. I mean, he was twenty points. I believe he was
around twenty points a game, five assistant game, four rebounds a game,
something like that. You know, I maybe, but you know, averaging
four or five assist a game. When was the last time we saw Jordan
Clarkson do that? I don't do even average. I should have looked up
even average ever over two before that in his career. The answer is never.
Okay, you know, but he continuously tried, like he didn't always
do it, you know. There and there were times like other guards on
the roster, you know that, you know, he kicked the ball into
the third row or threw it into the fourth row, or you know,
hit Danny Inge and the head would have passed or something like that. But
you know he there were also times where he made wonderful reads and wonderful passes
and you know, played unselfishly, all while keeping the balance of being on
the score that he is. So you know, the Jazz are going to
ask him to do more of that and do that this year. I think
it's one of the reasons why you know, they were comfortable with paying him
and you know, extending him, but you know, he was he was
a guy who I thought was a really pleasant surprise last year. What did
you make of the injuries? It is also shut down, but what did
you make of the first year of the Collin Sexton experience in Utah. He's
a guy that that you know, I think that he's had you know,
there are times where he's had real flashes, but I also think that there's
times state that you know, he's really struggled. And this is a big
year for him, right Like, I think he's got to prove that he
can play some point with some modicum of consistency and ability. And you know,
the Jazz Ah started him the first two preseason games. They brought him
off the bench against Portland. They play against New Zealand Breakers on Monday night,
uh, and I believe that that will be the last preseason game that
the regular rotation either plays in or plays a major role in. So it's
he you know, he's he's got a lot to prove from a playmaking standpoint.
I think that he's Utah's best player on the roster in terms of in
the in transition getting out in transition and in benning a defense and transition.
You know, he's somebody who's very difficult to garden spaces, very difficult to
guard one on one with his athleticism and his quickness. But he is you
know, he struggles sometimes and sometimes significantly so with the art of playmaking for
others. Can you know, just the ability to run a team, so
you know he's going to have to figure that part out. Yeah, And
I think you put it kindly when you're talking about his struggles as playmaking for
others, Like he can get tunnel vision, and I think it's really difficult
for him when defenses are more keyed in on him, because if they're not
worried about other creation threats depending on who's on the floor, that just makes
it a lot tougher for him. But he's someone I've always thought can be
more complimentary than people gave him credit for. I don't know if you set
up to use him in a complimentary capacity just because they need him, like
a lot of stuff that he can do on ball, like you mentioned his
speed, but just like as an off ball shooter, I think that's someone
who can fit into a larger context of a team in ways that people just
weren't really giving him credit for in Cleveland. And I know that his tenure
they're ended with injuries and whatnot and the emergence of Darius Carland, but I
thought he got a little bit of a bad rap. I'm hoping he stays
healthy just to get a better feel for what he is with with this team.
How do you think they like what is the like who else is going
to crop up in this back ord? Like? Are they gonna lean a
lot on Taling Horton Tucker Chris Dunn played really well to close the season or
or one of them more important than the other. It seems like they would
lean THHT just because he can play maybe more wing minutes, but like Chris
Dunn can defend everybody basically. So what do you sort of make of that
situation? Well, the funny thing was, so if you want to talk
about Tailing, I mean, you know, all the Jazz Twitter is gonna
like take a side here, because I believe he's by far the most polarizing
player on the team among the Jazz fan base, you know, And and
he's he's really interesting because I think that there's a real chance to he's the
opening night starter at point guard. Okay, yeah, it's coming in hot
man. I would not I mean, I don't think I would do it,
but I want to see it doing it. So the thing that I
think is really leaning the jazz or or making him a real candidate for this
is right now. Okay, Kyante is not ready to start, So there's
that. But if Kiyancee is not ready to start, everybody else has a
significant war, right. Yeah, Colin is small, and he doesn't you
know that he's he's got a long learning curve in terms of being a point
guard. Okay, Jordan Clarkson, you don't want the ball in his hands
to start every single possession, like you just don't like you you the possession
might not start, right. So, and I love Jordans and you know,
I think that he's the best perimeter score on the team, you know,
but you want him coming off screens. You want him doing Jordan clarks
and stuff, even if he's in the starting lineup. You know, Chris
Dunn, you worry about the spacing even though he's by far, just like
by far, the best defender out of any of the candidates. And he's
he also he's figured out how to score in the NBA, he's figured out
how to play offense in the NBA, and then you get the Tailing right,
So he's he's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're
gonna get, but he's if you put him at the point guard spot,
and I don't think a lot of people are realizing this, if you put
him at the point guard spot, he's probably got a physical advantage over ninety
of every starting point guard in the NBA. He's six foot four, he's
got a seven foot one wingspan, he's two hundred and thirty five pounds putting
in boldly, and he's very athletic for being two hundred and thirty five pounds.
Plays above the rim, he can finish, he bent, He probably
he's probably bending a defense off the dribble better than any of the candidates this
year in training camp and in preseason games. The problem with Tailing is he
might kick the ball into the third row every three possessions, and he also
dribble passing. We've a lot of much to be desired. And he also
might shoot twenty eight percent from three point ranch and that's not going to stop
him from shooting like he's not going to Like if you look at tailing and
you say tailing right, look, you're two for ten from your last from
three, Just get to the bucket. He might still go out there and
take a contest at three. Like he might do all of that stuff,
but he also might get you a triple double. And he also might just
be, you know, really hard to deal with off the dribble and getting
into the paint. He's going to touch the paint off the dribble at any
point in time. He's going to get to the basket. He's going to
do that in transition. He's going to do it in the half court.
The question is what does he do and do when he gets to the basket.
So if you're the Jazz, there are a couple of things at play.
You have a front court right now that's not very ball in hand.
In fact, you have a front court right now that's pretty much not balling
hand at all. You know, Lowry is Lowry is such a good basketball
player, and he's he's at a point where you know, it doesn't matter
who's around him, He's going to produce and he's going to get twenty five
and twelve. But John Collins isn't ball in hand. Obviously Walker Kessler is
not ball in hand. So you need a ball in hand backcourt. So
it kind of makes sense to start Tailing and Jordan Clarkson because those guys can
recack Havoc off the dribble, and you know, and your best player,
whether Derek and Havoc off the dribble and passing the ball or not, you
know, your best player is still going to go and get twenty five and
ten for you. So what you need is so you tell Taylor, listen,
just start the possession, just get the ball moving. And obviously,
if he gets the ball back in that possession, he's probably gonna call for
a screen. He's gonna go screen and roll, and he's gonna dance and
boogie and do his thing. But you're going to do it from having a
standpoint of having a six foot four, two hundred and thirty point pound point
guard as a rather a five for eleven, two hundred pound point guard,
or you know, Keante who's not really ready on night one to do what
you need to do. That's conduced with the winning. So if this happens
in you know, Tailing's the starting point Guard. It's it's definitely it'll be
a roller coaster, you know. And I still don't think that this is
settled. It still be calling, you know, it could still be Chris
Dunne. But I think that if it is tailing, that's kind of what
the thinking is. You mentioned Lowry and sort of it's a nice segment when
you're talking about the guard pecking order and some of their limitations. Lowry is
you said he's not a self creator. It's like sixty five plus percent of
his twos were assisted last year, over ninety percent of his threes were assisted.
Do you expect them to try and lean on him for more self creation?
And do you believe watching him a lot last year that he has that
extra year is not just a self creator, but maybe is also a passer
Well, I think it's seven foot and with his athleticism and with his skill
set in terms of shooting over the top, I think you could do a
lot of God, I don't really want to make this comparison, may I
think you could do a lot with Lowry. What Dallas did with prime Dirk
mas Van market and is better than darks of it. Now we're going to
see it, right, Yeah, but I but like the vision peak the
vision right, like you put him fifteen to seven fifteen feet from the basket,
you isolate him at the top of the at the top of the file
line, right you. And you know he's being guarded by threes, so
he's most likely going to be taller than them, or he's being guarded by
force to which he's most likely going to be quicker than them. And you
know, if you need a basket in the last five minutes, go give
me a bucket off of that, Go take one dribble and pull up.
You know. So I think some of that you could do that, some
of that in isolation, but you're only doing it in the last five minutes
of games. But the beauty of Lowry is that it just kind of doesn't
matter what you're doing. He's going to to make a cut or you know,
he's seven foot you know, he's going to catch the ball on the
wing and he's going to raise up and shoot. He's got an easy,
quick shooting motion that that's really low stress, and he makes forty percent of
them. Or he's you know, going to get it in transition. He's
he's going to score it that way, or he's going to get an offensive
rebound and he's going to score it that way, or he's going to get
fouled. And you know, I watched him against the Clippers last Tuesday.
The Jazz were kicking the ball into the upper deck and it didn't matter.
Still have He's still at thirteen and six at halftime, and the offense looked
tremendous. And on Saturday when the offense looked great, he had like seventeen
in ten in like twelve minutes. Like he's just really, really really good.
And you know, I think that he's primed for a really big year.
You know, but you know his next evolution is can we give you
the ball on the last five minutes and can you go score baskets for us?
You know, when the defense is loaded up, got you got a
primary defender, You got one guy sloughing off on your right, another guy's
sloughing off on your left. Can you make that diagonal pass to the corner
that leads to an open three, or can you you go and make a
game winner for us? You know, things like that. You know,
we've gotten down to that part with Larry Marketing. We know what's going to
happen in the first forty three minutes of a game. You know, he's
going to get you, you know, twenty two to twenty seven points a
night, and he's going to get you ten rebounds, and he's going to
do it. Most likely he's going to do it efficiently. Well, what's
going to happen in the last five minutes. So that's to me what the
evolution allower market it has to be this year. I do feel like,
just based off his shooting stroke, in his size, that if there's real
volume to it, which there's never really been for his game, in his
defense, that he should be a better pull up jump shooter than we've seen
at any point in his career. So I'm very interested to see that.
I think you mentioned about finding guys in the corners. I think that's why
John collins Is shooting is so important, because if you get to lineups where
Walker Kessler's off the floor and you're playing Collins and Olynic, maybe Taylor Hendrix
is involved, whatever, like the floor is so open. I really do
believe that the defensive attention he's drawing, and then just some of the flashes
he's shown, I actually think and I don't know if this is a popular
unpopular hot take, Like I think that's someone who can be an above average
passer for his position when it comes to just finding guys. And so John
Collins is hitting threes and like you have him and Olynic on the court at
the same time, or like I said, Hendrix, whatever, they're gonna
help off those guys because Lowry is drawing that type of attention when he's in
when you give him space. So I'm very I think he's going to be
fine. I've wondered if there would be pulled back on his efficiency, whether
he might struggle this year just because of the not having a con Ley there,
not even having a you know, a Molik Beasley three point volume outlet.
But just the more I watch him, I think that it's there,
and so it might just come down to, like if there are guys around
him hitting enough of those shots where they can space the floor. Yeah,
you're not gonna slow things down all the time for him, and you're not
gonna want him to run things from a standstill that much. But I think
he has that in him, and so I'm very I'm hopeful, but I'm
just so curious to see how often he gets to do it, and then
just what it looks like once he does. Yeah, for sure, Like
you know, you want to see you want to see the strides of his
game that you know have not typically been there in the last eight years.
And so you know, you want to see him evolve off the dribble a
little bit more. You want to see him evolve in the passing game a
little bit more. You know. I think the downside for Lowry is that
he's not sneaking up on anybody this year. Everybody knows he's good now,
you know. So he's going to see he's gonna you know, when he
when he plays the Los Angeles Clippers, he's going to see Paul George and
Kawhi Leonard. When he plays against Minnesota, he's going to see Jade McDaniels.
You know, when he plays against New Orleans, he's going to see
Herb Jones. You know, he's going to see all those He's going to
see the best of the best now. So you know, he's just got
to figure it out in some of the ways that he hasn't in the past.
But you know, the baseline that he has to work on is is
so vast, Like, you know, he's such a great shooter, he
does a miss free throws. He can score without needing to dominate the basketball.
He's going to have a physical advantage, you know on many many nights.
You know, he's going to have an athleticism an advantage on many nights.
You know, he do the baseline they're so vast that you know it's
it's going to be hard to see him not having a great season. But
you know what the question is, can he evolve from an All Star level
player to an All NBA level player? Can he be you know we you
know right now his profile looks like the second best player on a championship team
at age twenty six. Can he up his profile to where you're looking at
him and saying he can be the best player on a championship team? You
know, So that's where his challenges are going to come from this year.
Walker Castle are an amazing rookie season, one of the rookies that I missed
on. Just so impactful defensively. Do you see the way that he played
last year? Does it maybe change? Like could could the Jazz feasily when
you look at the personnel they have you mentioned athletics. Some of you mentioned
size, and they're still kind of going to be out of defensive deficit every
night at every other position other than Walker Kessler's right, How do you think
that changes at all? Like, will they look to be maybe be more
aggressive in front of him this year, try to look to force more turnovers
to kind of offset that deficit. And then knowing, Okay, we have
one of the best room protectors in the league behind us, and he's pretty
mobile, so that like is something that they could try, or just any
like, will he change the way this team defends this year in any way?
You know, I think because of him, I think that if you're
will harder, you can't be afraid to do a lot of things and try
a lot of things. You know, play a lot of drop and then
switch and then play some zone and you know, do a lot of the
things that you know you can do. And you have a robing room protector
like Walker, so you know his he causes a lot of trouble for for
teams because of how good he is around the rim on both ends, and
you know how hard he plays and how hard he runs the floor. Like
you you know, you really got to bust back against Walker Kesseler, because
if not, he's going to outrun your big and he's either going to get
a layup or he's going to make somebody else commit to him, which is
going to lead to other opportunities. Uh and and and delayed transition. So
you know, he's he's gotta you know, the thing with Walker is,
you know, the Jazz are gonna let him shoot threes this year. So
let's let's see how many he makes. I'm not expecting him to be brook
Low pez, but you know he's he's gonna shoot. He's gonna take some
shots this year. So let's see how many he makes. Let's see what
happens when, you know, teams start switching and they put smalls on him.
Can he take advantage of those matchups? I believe he can. And
you know, and let's see what happens when teams put shooting bigs on the
floor to try to draw him out of the paint. You know, can
he can he defend well enough away from the paint to make teams pay for
that as well. So those are some of the questions with him. The
thing I think that was most surprised. I mean, I missed on so
much about him. I just didn't see it when I was watching him before
he entered the NBA was sort of the step per step defense, like not
necessarily the switching, but like if he's like angled and all, like just
his ability to keep pace with these quicker ball handlers, which will me to
believe that, Yeah, if teams want to throw shooting bigs and he's on
them, I just feel like he can cover so much ground in such like
a coordinated way. It doesn't really bother me. All the questions on offense
that you mentioned for sure, like I want to see it, and if
he's going to shoot threes, I absolutely want to see that he did do
it. Credit I was looking before we recorded, he shot like sixty three
percent or whatever on non dunks and non alley oop twos. So like,
this is someone who has a little bit more offensive skill than he's probably shown,
and so I will be interested to see, like how can it broad
and can even like improve his quick passing, like if the Jazz are going
to have so much you know, body movement around him. Oh, Chai
Baji, what did you make of him as a rookie and what are you
watching most closely for in year two. I think he's gonna be in the
league for ten to twelve years. He's you know, he's he's got the
prototype of of being a real thren d guy. You know the thing,
I think the Jazz have to be careful with him because they have so many
miles to feed in the backcourt that you know, you don't want to see
him get lost in the shuffle, either in terms of minutes or you know,
just getting on the floor getting them involved in the offense. You know,
he's almost one hundred percent reliant on others making place for him, or
the ball finding him for open threes, or the ball finding him for transition
layups and dunks. But you know, there's just gonna be plenty of nights
where the Jazz are going to need him to guard the other team's best perimeter
player because there's nobody else, especially if Chris Dunn is not on the floor.
Yeah, so you know, he's he's a really good point of attack
defender. I believe that he's developing into a really good shot blocker, especially
trailing the fast break. And you know, if he can put that together
and then he can shoot thirty five to forty percent from threes. I mean,
you know, he's the guy that, to me, every championship roster
needs. You know, he's the Bruce Bowen, or he's the Danny Green,
or he's the Bruce Brown or the Centavious Calwell Pope, those six four
to six six long and athletic three and d guys that you know that make
a real impact on the championship roster in twenty five to thirty minutes tonight on
both ends of the floor. You know. So I think that if you're
the Jazz, you definitely want him around long term. I believe that there's
a world where, you know, to maybe two three years down the road,
Keyante George develops into a twenty to twenty five point per game score and
then o Chai Basi is the perfect too guard next to him, because it
gives you athleticism, it gives you length, it gives you size, he
gives you defense, and he gives you shooting and the ability to get out
in transition. But you know, this is you know, an example of
how many miles to feed that are in that Jazz backcourt. You know,
against Portland, they put a lineup out there that was Colin Sexton. It
was Colin Sexton, Chris Dunn, Kyante, George, Ohi Baji was playing
the four, and Walker Kesseler was playing playing the five. You know,
there's so many guys that deserve to play that. Will Hardy just was like,
Ah, screw it, Let's make a lineup of the guys that deserve
to play. You're gonna give me this many guards. I'm gonna play this
many guys. Just play them. And they just ran up and down the
floor for like ten minutes, and it was actually hilarious because it was like,
oh my god, you just had three seven footage on the floor and
now you got to chase three six three guys around, you know, But
it's just it's it's just an example of of how many guys that the Jazz
have to figure out roles for. I do hope we get to see a
lot of him with Kant. George is because I think George is probably their
best point of attack right now, and which I is so good at just
moving away from the ball and like all different directions and finding seams, and
I think that's the best. I don't know what to make of him defensively
yet, but I'm excited to see if he's gonna go up against that caliber
of assignments. Before we enter the cookie cutter portion of the podcast, any
feel for I'm assuming Bryce Senseibot just won't really play much and give him the
state of the back court right now this year. But I'm in love with
Taylor Hendrix and yet the front court is pretty crowded. Are either of these
guys gonna get you know, if the jazzer forget about the end of the
season, if they decide to pull back or whatever, But like, is
there any chance of them playing meaningful minutes in meaningful games? Bryce sens the
ball has yet to see a minute in the preseason. I was reading that
and it's I thought he was injured or something. He's not. It's fully
healthy, and he just hasn't seen. He hasn't seen any time. I'm
hoping to see him on Monday against News against New Zealand. Get him a
couple of minutes, a run, put him on the floor. Let's see
what it looks like like, you know, for better or for worse.
Taylor hendricks Man, It's funny because I just I just hope the Jazz.
I just hope Jazz fans have patience with him because he's not ready right now.
But he has the ability to develop into an absolute star level role player,
like you know, star level, to the point where even though he's
a role player, he can he might see a few All Star games.
He's he can guard threes, fours, fives, and I believe he can
even guard twos. He can shoot the ball. He's long and athletic,
and he's a guy that I think that you know, you just look for
like those uniforms, extend those renal corn six ten guys that can guard absolutely
everybody, And that's what I think that he can develop into. You know,
but he's not ready right now. He's not gonna be ready on Open
the Night. He's not gonna be ready in January. He might not be
ready in March. And you know, he's gonna spend possibly a lot of
time in the G League. And you know, I think that that Jazz
fans are going to have to reconcile themselves with that, just because he was
the ninth pick and and just be patient because you know, by year two,
year three, year four, he's got a chance to be really really
good and be really really impactful on both ends of the floor. I am
so high on him. I think that there are gonna be teams Orlando Indiana.
Why did we take Jarvis Walker? Why did we take Anthony Black I'm
so high the ground he could cover, It's like he teleports. I believe
in the shot. I don't think he needs like all these ball skills to
be, as you said, an impactful player. I will not be patient.
I demand to see Taylor Hendrick minutes right out of the gate because I
think he's gonna be an exceptional NBA player. Listen, I think I think
he can be Jaron Jackson Jr. Like you don't got to sell you know
what. I think he's gonna be better than Jaron Jackson Junior. A by
the time he's by the time he's how old is Jared now? Is he
twenty five? Uh? He's on a second contract. Let's see Aaron Jackson
Junior is twenty four. Geez okay, just turned twenty four. Wow,
So Taylor is nineteen five years from now, like five six years from now.
I believe that Taylor can be Jared Jackson Jr. Again. You know
he's not as big, not quite as big, but you know, I
believe he can be that defensive player of the year level guy who you know
can recap it inside and shoot forty percent from three. I'm sold you talked
me into it. Uh, all right, we're in the quick hitter cookie
cutter portion of the podcast. Are there any strengths or weaknesses flying under the
radar about this team or just stuff that we haven't talked about that you think
needs to be hit very quickly? Well, the point guard spot. I
mean to me that that's going to make a break Utah season in terms of
what they're going to be. If you know, I believe that they have
the kind of regular season roster that can win a lot of games, but
they don't have a playoff roster. And the Jazz know they don't have a
playoff roster. Like there's a world where they get a six, seven,
eight seed and they just get demolished in the playoffs because they don't have a
playoff lovel roster. And you know, we all know that there's we both
know that there's just so much difference between you know, a regular season team
and a playoff team. Yeah, and the Jazz have a regular season team.
They have a bunch of young whipper snappers that are going to get up
and down the floor every night, that are going to win a bunch of
games in January because nobody, nobody's gonna want to play in January. And
they're the antithesis of the heat is basically, yeah, exactly, they're the
antithesis of the heat. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see
how this roster develops this year, and you know what, if any changes
are made to this roster as the year goes on. I know there will
probably be a lot of shape shifting when you're looking at the rotation. But
when we're trying to figure out, like who are the ten guys that are
going to play the most this season, it does feel like there's a healthy
amount of locks. Jordan Clarkson, Akbaji Marketing, Collins Kessler, Sexton thht
And then I think you would have Keyante George Penzilton is a lock, which
brings us to eight. And then Kelly olynnok is he a lock? Like
that would be not? So then who's like who you think gets that?
Like, when we're looking, okay, these ten players played the most minutes
for the Jazz this year, who's that tenth guy? Please say Tyler Hendricks.
I'm gonna say Chris Dunn. I get it. I'm not happy about
it, but I'm gonna say Chris Dunn. Uh fair enough. Uh So
this is to some extent matchup dependent. But if we're fast running to the
end of the season, what will have been the jazz is most relied upon
crunch time unit. Hmmm, it's going to be Jordan Clarkson. Oh,
that's a good one, bower, He's in there right. Let's guess it's
gonna be Jordan Clarkson Liary Marketing. Oh, I was gonna have Walker Kessler.
Pensilvan is like, he'll be okay, No, Like, it could
either be Kell John, it could either be a Bajie or Walker. I
think it's going to fluctuate from night to night and some especially earlier in the
season. But Lowry is your biggest mark, your biggest lock. I believe
Jordan is your second biggest lock because you just got to have his scoring on
the floor. And I believe that Walker Kessler is probably your third biggest lot.
I believe that Kelly Olink is one of your busy biggest locks because he's
far and away the best passer on the roster, and he can also shoot,
and he also plays really well with Lowry. But like, you know
what, if you're playing a roster of point guard, whoever point guard is
Jordan Clarkson, Ochi Bajie, Kelly olink Loarry Marketing, you know something like
that, or it could be Walker Kessler and something like that. I did.
I wasn't gonna say. I think Oshai ends up being a lock,
like if he's not immediately just because of the skill set that he brings.
And if we're talking about Kris Don, there's just too much offensive trade off
when you're looking at we need to cater to defense. Then thhd's decision making
is just destructive at point. So so this team as we record this on
October fifteenth, they're over under is set at thirty five point five. It
actually went up a win in the past couple of days. Would you take
the over or the under on that. I'm gonna go ahead and take the
over, and I'll take the over because I just think that that will Hardy's
do good. I took me under when we did over under, just because
there's so few wins to go around. And that leads me into the question
of like what teams in the West right now? Would you sit here and
say, for the regular season, the Utah Jazz will definitely be better than
them. I came up with I came up with the three, and I
like, I have the Rockets, the Spurs, and the Blazers, and
two of those teams aren't trying to win. I'm just not high on the
Rockets. And then I struggled to like envision okay, like, well,
who are they beating out? After that, I'm going to say I'm going
to abstain a little bit and not say who I think they're better than or
not better than, but I will say that, you know, it's my
belief that you just play your eighty two and you figure it out from there
because you're not playing against you know, the San Antonio Spurs or the Potland
Trailblazers. You're you know, in so many ways, you're just playing against
your schedule. Like, you know, what does the first twenty games look
like? What does what do the dog days look like? When you get
into January and you get into the first week of February, first two weeks
of February, what does your post trade deadline look like? So This is
what I mean. Right, Like, the Jazz are ten and three to
start this season because they had a veteran roster led by you know, one
of the best point guards of the generation. So Game fourteen, the guy
who's one of the best point guards of this generation gets hurt sprains and ankle,
which is what Mike Conley does at some point almost every year, Like
you know, he gets he gets hurt a lot, so he misses I
don't know how many games he miss He missed twelve games, and the Jazz
couldn't get into an offense without him. So they come back to Earth and
then Conley gets back and they right the ship and they study themselves and they're
very competitive again. And then the Jazz pulled the plug because they're like,
oh, you know what, we're winning way too much right now out there.
Yeah, So what does this what is what is the eighty two game
schedule look like for the Jazz? Do they stay healthy? If they do
stay healthy, do they play as hard every night this year as they did
last year? You know, I just believe that outside of you know,
the first four or five teams right now, pretty much outside of Denver,
La and Phoenix, like I think those three are the best three rosters.
I'm a Clippers fan. You're a Clippers fan, oh, I said,
you said, La, you're really in on the Clippers. Huh oh,
Yeah, I'm so in on the Clippers. But I believe that the Lakers,
the Nuggets, and the Suns are you know, significant, I don't
want to say, yeah, probably significantly better than the rest of the West
in terms of construction. I would agree with you for Denver and Phoenix.
I don't have the same level of faith in the Lakers. I just Lebron
and the foot stuff last year, and like, you need Anthony Davis to
again be your best player and then for him to play in enough games for
that to matter. I just I like what they did this austly. I
like their I actually happen to think pretty much the other way. I don't
think this roster is actually dependent on Anthony Davis and Lebron in the regular season.
Now they're depending on it in the playoffs. If they're not in their
best in the playoffs, they're not going to win in the playoffs. But
you're that high on Cam Reddish, I'm that high on I'm that high on
that roster, Like I think that roster's got uncommon depth in versatility, actually
got depth, Yeah, for sure, for sure. You know, I
think that they can go a string of five or six games and D'Angelo Russell's
winning them three or four of them. If you know, your first two
are not playing, so but the older as that may, I mean,
besides like the first three or four or five, you know, everything else
is variables, right, Like you know, Denver's matchup proof. As long
as Yoke as your Murray playing, they're going to be at the top of
the conference. You know, as long as Booker and Durana playing, they're
going to be at the top of the conference. You know. But everybody
else, I mean, it's like, you know, how do you defend
night to night? How do you shoot night to night? You know,
how do you how healthy do you stay night to night? You know,
And it all affects their variants. Like I think that there's a world where
if Minnesota stays healthy, they're the fourth best team in the West. You
know, you're all me and you same wavelength, you guys. Tell me
I'm still I'm still in on the Wolves. Yeah, I'm in on the
Wolves this year, Like especially with an entire year, Mike Conley actually organizing
that roster, and you know, I think Anthony Edwards is amazing, So
you know, I definitely think so with the Jazz, Like you know,
I just don't look at it as who are they better than looking as what
what does the eighty two game schedule due to them do for them? And
how they handle it and and if they handle it, well, you know,
you look up and you're forty two and forty and you're forty three and
thirty nine, and you're you know, you're you're the A seed and you're
you're you're in the playoff playing if Lowry market and misses twenty five games,
or they don't play as hard night to night as they did last year,
or if John Collins shoots twenty four percent from three, you know, or
any number of variables, if they kicked the ball into the stands every third
possession, then they're thirty three and forty nine and they're looking at a lottery
pick? Is there before I get you out of here, anything or anyone
we didn't talk about that you think needs to be be covered. Man,
I was looking at looking at uh nah, I think we're good. You
don't what I mean, you don't like really spicy like Drell Brantley takes.
No, No, Dre Brantley takes. Let's see, there were people who
were all flutter about, not jazz specifically, but there was some social media
stuff about like how much Yurt can help a team in the NBA specifically being
a jazz any any strong opinions on Yurt depends on how well he shoots it
and how well he rebounds the ball. You know. I do think that
there's gonna be a world where he gets chances. I think that everybody's gonna
get a chance at some point in this uh. I think that everybody's gonna
get a chance at some point uh in the season. So it's just gonna
be a matter of, you know, what he does with his chances when
he gets when it gets there. But you know, he can really shoot
it, and I'm confident of that, and I think he can really rebound
it. So how does he defend in space? You know? And this
is the other thing, like who gets hurt? You know? And what
opportunities open up there? Tony, this was great. Are you able just
to tell our listeners where they can find you in all the terrific work that
you do. You can find me on t Jones on the NBA at on
Twitter. I'm never calling it x no, that's why. Hey, the
logo on the screen, if you see it's Twitter still, so you can
definitely find me there. You can find me on Instagram as well, and
if you were you know, you're really old school, you can find me
on Facebook. So yeah, I tried to. I told my daughter that,
my nineteen year old, I said, I gave you a birthday shout
out on Facebook? Did you see it? And she was like, no,
what is Facebook? She's like, I'm never gonna be on Facebook.
Dad. Uh. So definitely, you know, find me on any one
of those platforms and I'll try to do the best work that I can.
You do great work. The link to his Twitter and his Athletic profile page
will be in the podcast and YouTube description. So go subscribe to the Athletics.
You can read Tony's work. Subscribe to the Athletics. Please keep me
employed. Yeah, keep Tony employs that he'll gree to keep coming back on
this podcast. And also because Tony lets me send him memes in DMS or
spam his mentions during the season, My favorite thing to ask about what fans
do in your mentions. They'll say that I'll see the strangest shit that you
quote tweet, So I just respond and be like, what does this mean
for the chances of the Jazz acquiring Zion Williamson and then Tony rolls with it.
I always appreciate someone who's willing to be not so serious in those distances,
So go subscribe to the Athletics. Thank you so much for doing this,
Tony, and I'm sure, as you know by now, I'll be
festering you again in the future. Thank you, man. I appreciate you
having me. This is a lot of fun.