1 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,280 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Trishinsky, 2 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,079 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,480 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 4 00:00:28,719 --> 00:00:32,079 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to 5 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,640 the premium version of the Federalist dot Com as well. Monitored to be joined 6 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,560 today by Riley Moore, west Virginia's state treasurer, elected back in twenty twenty 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,439 and now a candidate for Congress for West Virginia second District. Thank you so 8 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,679 much, mister Moore for joining the show. Oh, thank you so much 9 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:53,799 for having me. So tell us us a little bit about I'm curious actually, 10 00:00:54,159 --> 00:00:59,000 because you've been exercising your power as the state Treasurer of West Virginia in 11 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:03,159 some fascinating ways. We're going to get into how you've tackled this enormous problem 12 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:08,599 of ESG, really innovative stuff. But now you're interested in running for Congress 13 00:01:08,599 --> 00:01:11,719 as well. And I know you've talked about how the and you are running 14 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:14,719 for Congress. You've talked about how Congress has the power of the purse. 15 00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:21,359 I mean, incredibly awesome and important power. Why go from one office to 16 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,120 the next. What is it that attracts you to this position? Is it 17 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,359 really the power of the purse and how you can sort of tackle some of 18 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:30,680 these issues that are so close to your heart through that office. Well, 19 00:01:30,719 --> 00:01:34,640 that's part of it, right, And that's what we've been able to leverage 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:41,000 here is our tax dollars to protect our economy, our jobs, our way 21 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,879 of life, our culture in the state of West Virginia. And I think 22 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,439 you could do that same thing in Congress. Certainly, that's part of the 23 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,519 reason why I want to run. But these are also difficult times. And 24 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:57,319 you know, it's easy to be a member of Congress and easy times, 25 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,879 but we need people to step up. And I think I got a proven 26 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:05,959 track record. It speaks for itself of accomplishment at the state level. I 27 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:08,719 don't want to take that record of success and bring that to Congress. Look, 28 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:14,120 I'm a conservative fighter, and not only now everybody always says I'm a 29 00:02:14,159 --> 00:02:16,560 fighter, but I'm also somebody who wins. And I think that's a big 30 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:20,919 distinction, right, is that we've got some wins that were chalking up here 31 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,400 in the state of West Virginia, particularly against the ESG movement that have had 32 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:32,039 national implications now for the last several years since I've been in this office, 33 00:02:32,159 --> 00:02:37,520 and I'd like to apply that at the federal level. I'm sure people would 34 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,800 say, well, you're one of four hundred and thirty five, how are 35 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,800 you going to do that? Well, Look, I was able to do 36 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,360 that as a state treasure in one of the smallest states in the country by 37 00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:52,960 forming coalitions, by continuing to be persistent and pushing forward. I think that's 38 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,719 what it takes to be successful in Congress as well. Now, you made 39 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,159 news this week and I'm really eager to get as some more details on this. 40 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:07,960 You sent notices just yesterday so Monday, to six financial institutions basically warning 41 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:15,800 them they might be added to the state's restricted financial institution list after kind of 42 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:21,800 categorizing them as people who are engaged in these boycotts of fossil fuel companies under 43 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,479 your state's law. Can you tell us a little bit more about the step 44 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,000 that you took, and I know you actually took steps leading up to this. 45 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,120 Maybe you could q listeners not from West Virginia in a little bit on 46 00:03:31,159 --> 00:03:35,759 how you've tackled this in your state, sure, happy to. And I 47 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:42,000 mean there's a long list of pieces of legislation I've put forward that have addressed 48 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:46,520 ESG not only on a state level, but also on a national level. 49 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:53,840 And what I would point your listeners to is really all the way back in 50 00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:02,039 twenty twenty one, I formed a coalition of fifteen states around the country and 51 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,599 we sent a letter to large financial institutions by administration saying, if you continue 52 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:12,360 down this path the ESG, the states are going to be left with no 53 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,680 option other than two acts. Now, people send letters all the time, 54 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:21,040 so I'm sure, and they ignore them routinely. But this time we sent 55 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,879 a follow up letter in may Or Parton in November, and we did take 56 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,759 action where we said, look, we're going to start changing our contracting procedures 57 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:34,639 here in our various states. And we started to do that, and I 58 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,519 decided to say, look, I don't think this is enough. I think 59 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,720 we need to take greater action because we had lived through this already in West 60 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,399 Virginia Obama War on coal. We lost tens of thousands of jobs, devastated 61 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,079 our economy. It's an existential threat to us here in the state of West 62 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,759 Virginia. But it does affect everybody in the country in terms of cost of 63 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,079 energy, your utility bills, I mean even things that show up at the 64 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,240 grocery store. They all travel on trucks and things like that, and price 65 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,959 of gas and everything else going up. Effectset rights passed through. So in 66 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,800 any event, November we started to take that action in twenty one. Then 67 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,120 in twenty twenty two, right at the beginning in January, I became the 68 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:26,920 first elected official in the United States to divest from Blackrock, and so we 69 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,000 pulled our money in the state treasury out of Blackrock. I'm happy to report 70 00:05:32,399 --> 00:05:38,959 now around this coalition that we formed, we've had nearly ten states that have 71 00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:45,519 also divested from Blackrock, different state treasures around the country. Then in twenty 72 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:50,720 twenty two, we came up with the after we divested from Blackrock, I 73 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:58,279 introduced what it's called the Restricted Financial Institution List Law, and that passed in 74 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:03,639 the twenty twenty two legislative session, and we took our first run at that. 75 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,399 We were the first state again in America to put out a restricted Financial 76 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:13,399 Institution list. Happy to say we've had eight states follow that as well. 77 00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:15,319 Texas has come in a lot of other big states. And that's the thing. 78 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,720 If West Virginia just does it on its own, it's great. You 79 00:06:18,759 --> 00:06:23,079 know, look, we're fighting for you know, our equities or interests here 80 00:06:23,079 --> 00:06:26,519 in the state, but to have a national movement any big national players like 81 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,319 Texas, and I'm so grateful to Texas, Kentucky and other states Oklahoma and 82 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,360 others that had stepped up and really helped move this forward. So in twenty 83 00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:42,079 twenty two, we ended up putting black Rock, Goldman, Sachs, JP, 84 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:46,279 Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, and Wells Fargo on the restricted financial institution 85 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,639 list. So what does that mean. That means if they currently had contracts 86 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:55,920 with them with US, those contracts were terminated. And that's with any entity 87 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,360 in state government, even the universities. I have the sole contracting authority in 88 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:05,560 the state of Westernvirginia, and then they are prohibited from bidding on any future 89 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,160 contracts with US. So we ended up terminating quite a bit of contracts with 90 00:07:10,439 --> 00:07:14,519 some of these financial institutions. I just mentioned JP Morgan Chase being one of 91 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:18,319 the bigger ones of those. But the great news on this was US Bank 92 00:07:19,079 --> 00:07:25,600 was actually the sixth financial institution that received a letter fifth largest bank assets in 93 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:32,639 our management in the country, and they reversed course and dropped their ESG policy, 94 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:38,959 and to this day they retained their contract with me here in West Virginia, 95 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:45,120 our ACCH contract that does about twenty billion dollars a year in transactions. 96 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,439 So now we've moved forward after we've done that, and we've taken another look 97 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,639 at this this first list that we had put out and folks that we now 98 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,959 prohibit from doing business with state government here in West Virginia. As I mentioned, 99 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,240 those are folks that we're either authorized to do business with or recurrently. 100 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,800 Now, any financial institution out there can bid on any of these contracts that 101 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:11,120 we have. And every state does this. I mean we don't unless you're 102 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,160 up there in North Dakota. We don't have a state bank, right, 103 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,199 I mean, there's basically no states do. So we have to bid these 104 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,519 services out with merchant service, ACCH, you name it, a whole bunch 105 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:28,959 of others things, you know, managing your cash management, cash flow and 106 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,320 all these other things. So City Bank and some of these others who could 107 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:41,120 bid on these, we have found that they appear to be engaging in boycott 108 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,080 to the fossil fuel industry. What does that mean that by policy they refuse 109 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,879 to do business with any fossil fuel company, So they are prohibiting access to 110 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:58,080 capital based on the industry that they're in. It's all political. It's not 111 00:08:58,279 --> 00:09:03,120 based on risk, it's not based on return, it's not based on capital, 112 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,799 it's not based on collateral and these other types of things. So for 113 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:11,600 us, if anybody who's sitting out there saying is this constitutional, absolutely it 114 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:18,039 is because we have a conflict of interest here. If I hand over tax 115 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:24,080 dollars generator from the fossil fuel industry here in West Virginia to an institution whose 116 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:30,799 policies are ESG in which they are trying to diminish those industries and then thereby 117 00:09:30,919 --> 00:09:33,440 diminish the funds at which they are managing, that is a conflict of interest 118 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,960 for us. I'll give you an example, severance tax, which is paid 119 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,799 when anything is taken out of the ground coal, gas, or oil. 120 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,480 Last fiscal years, roughly about a billion dollars. Well, the state budget 121 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,440 of West Virginia is four point seven billion dollars, so that's a pretty good 122 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:54,039 chunk of change for us. So that's where that conflict of interest comes into 123 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,639 play. There's several other things that we've done as it relates to ESG in 124 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,679 pass into law, and we've really been a leader on here in the state. 125 00:10:03,759 --> 00:10:07,039 But I've talked for a while, so I'll kind of pause and see 126 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,080 if you have any follow ups. So, no, that was extremely helpful. 127 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,399 We've definitely talked about ESG many times on the show before, but actually 128 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,919 that was a really useful breakdown, especially because there's so much media coverage suggesting 129 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,799 and actually it advances some of these nonsense studies and reports about how ESG is 130 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:31,799 actually a great investment, that it's better for people's portfolios. But it sounds 131 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,440 actually like you, based on your experience in West Virginia, and there's plenty 132 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,279 of research that shows the contrary, you found that to be absolutely not true. 133 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:41,399 And in an interview I wanted to ask you about this too. I 134 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,200 think you were talking to maybe it was Politico, and you said, I 135 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,639 was approached by coal operators who say they are facing problems maintaining their operations because 136 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:54,159 of the restrictions on access to capital. Folks will say that it's not happening. 137 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,600 It's absolutely happening. So it actually sounds like the way that you started 138 00:10:56,919 --> 00:11:01,120 dealing with this issue is because you heard that it was happening. Could you 139 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,399 tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I know it for a 140 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:07,759 fact. They can say whatever they want, but I know that some of 141 00:11:07,759 --> 00:11:13,120 these large banks and others were cutting off access to capital. Some of these 142 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,720 coal companies been doing business with some of these guys for a long time and 143 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:20,159 they said, no, we've got to decarbonizer our portfolios. Sorry, I 144 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,799 can't do this anymore. So I know it for a fact. But I 145 00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:28,360 do know this that we're winning because I've had coal companies now come to me 146 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:35,600 and say, for the first time in a few years now, we have 147 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:41,480 had some of these banks and larger financial institutions coming back to us and saying, 148 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,799 we'd like to talk about doing business again. So we are winning. 149 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:52,120 We are winning. And that is something that I really can't emphasize enough because 150 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,480 we talk about problems all the time and what's happening to us and how terrible 151 00:11:56,519 --> 00:12:00,120 this is is Republicans, Oh, what are we going to do? The 152 00:12:00,159 --> 00:12:03,440 left is so crazy? Yeah they are. And it's one thing to highlight 153 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,639 the problem, it's another to do something about it. And that's why I've 154 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:13,879 been exercising my authority that's been given to me by the voters of the state 155 00:12:13,919 --> 00:12:18,600 of West Virginia, because look, I can sit here and tell them that 156 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:22,320 they're being screwed, but guess what, they already know that they already know 157 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,519 that they would like to be to do something about it. So that is 158 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,200 what we've been doing here in West Virginia. And I certainly feel like we 159 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,200 are winning because we're starting to see some of the cracks and all this, 160 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,120 particularly if you look at the last proxy voting season and how Black Rocks State 161 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:43,120 Street Vanguard, how these guys I mean in single digits supported some of these 162 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,759 activist shareholder resolutions, like you rightfully pointed out, I mean ESG Securities. 163 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,200 Third joke, the asset managers, they love them because the expense ratio is 164 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,559 so high on it, so people are basically paying for the premium and feeling 165 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,000 good about what they're doing, and they're trying to tell them, man, 166 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,720 we got these high returns on this. Well, if you look in the 167 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:11,080 previous year, these like ESG et s, they're overloaded on tech stocks and 168 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:16,080 ESG does one thing and the capital markets is important to understand, they lack 169 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,879 diversity. There's no diversity, so you can't hedge, right. So as 170 00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:26,559 the tech stocks went down and they're overweighted on those and the energy stocks rally, 171 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:30,639 they missed that rally, right, and so people lost money. And 172 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,559 that is if you go back to the more modern portfolio theory that essentially created 173 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,919 ETFs to begin with, right, the idea behind these kind of like passive 174 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,960 investment vehicles that are out there, like you know that tracks E s and 175 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:56,000 P five hundred or something like that is to maximize or a pardon me. 176 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:03,759 The idea was essentially to have consist returns and minimize risk. Well, you're 177 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:07,200 not doing that, right, So it goes contrary to kind of the modern 178 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,440 portfolio theory. Really, so I think it's interesting that they're even able to 179 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,120 advertise these things in the way that they are. I mean, maybe that's 180 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:18,759 somebody gets elected to Congress. Take a look at the SEC and how they're 181 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:22,039 actually advertising some of these index funds and these other things. I mean, 182 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:30,320 I think it's very fascinating that we allow this to happen. History, economics, 183 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,039 the great works of literature, the meaning of the US Constitution. Did 184 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:37,360 you study these things in school. Probably not, or if you're like me, 185 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:39,840 maybe it's just time for a refresher. Even if you did study them. 186 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:43,080 If you listen to this podcast, you know I talk all the time. 187 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:46,039 I don't know that I actually studied these things with the best content in 188 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,840 the first place. Time and technology have changed a lot of things, but 189 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:54,519 they have not changed basic fundamental truths about the world and our place in it. 190 00:14:54,799 --> 00:14:58,960 That's why I'm genuinely so excited that Hillsdale College is offering more than four 191 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,120 free online courses in the most important and enduring subject You can learn about the 192 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,080 works of C. S. Lewis, the stories in the Book of Genesis, 193 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,279 the meaning of the Constitution, the rise and fall of the Roman Republic, 194 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:18,000 or the history of the ancient Christian Church with Hillsdale College's online courses all 195 00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:22,440 available for free. That's right, you heard me say that they are free. 196 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:24,960 I send these courses to my friends and family all the time. 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There's no cost and it's 206 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,840 easy to get started. That's Hillsdale dot edu slash Federalist to register Hillsdale dot 207 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:18,600 edu slash Federalist. Okay, So this is another thing I had, is 208 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:22,159 a burning question I had for you. You know, Larry Fink will talk 209 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,639 about how people like Larry Fink, Larry Fink himself have tried to sort of 210 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:32,480 disguise what they're doing, and I'm curious, actually, just from the outside, 211 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:36,480 it seems to me that what's really happening is they're trying to say they're 212 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:40,720 not investing in ESG as a way to respond to the public pressures against ESG 213 00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:45,600 while still doing ESG. But also at the same time that is a success. 214 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:48,759 You know, even that they're feeling public pressure, that's a success on 215 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,440 behalf of the anti ESG movement. You know, leaders in that movement like 216 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:56,279 you's the what's really happening here? Are they? Are they just getting a 217 00:16:56,279 --> 00:17:03,079 little bit more secretive and veil or is this really progress against ESG? I 218 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,319 think there's real progress against ESG, but it's certainly segmented. I'd say amongst 219 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,400 the lending institutions, the banks of this country. You do start to see 220 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:18,279 some movement on that. Some of these large asset managers like a black Rock, 221 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,119 I think they're trying to have it both ways, and they've been doing 222 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:27,680 that for a while. Right. Vanguard was the first to really take an 223 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:33,000 about face on this and really call out like, look, you can't just 224 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:37,400 be pushing ESG and also be a good fiduciary, right and that and that's 225 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,119 the thing, right, I mean that you know, they're perhaps the end 226 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:48,039 of the day, violating the fiduciary duty in some of this and the way 227 00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:52,839 that they're managing their money. Now, so you've seen some are trying to 228 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,960 change the language around ESG, do it in a different talk about it in 229 00:17:56,079 --> 00:18:00,160 different terms, right, I mean we've seen that they're the mass of languages 230 00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:07,160 and acronyms and all that. Yeah, yeah, you know, but look, 231 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,880 I'm acutely aware of that everybody is. Now. What I do know, 232 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,440 as I did state, is that talking to actual producers of fossil fuels 233 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:21,880 and things like that, there is progress there. Now. Look, obviously 234 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,599 you got the S and the G as part of this, and I that's 235 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,960 the other part of this kind of big fight. I think to them, 236 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,279 they were thinking the E would be the easiest part, right, but they're 237 00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:40,440 working on the social aspects and the governance and all this other. So that's 238 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,160 why it was so important for state like West Virginia, and we've had other 239 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:51,000 states now follow this to revise in law our proxy voting policy. Now that's 240 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:55,039 kind of a for people that don't follow what a proxy vote is, kind 241 00:18:55,079 --> 00:18:57,359 of a complicated issue, but essentially, at the end of the day, 242 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:04,519 the way this works is we got a pension fund thirty billion dollars, give 243 00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:08,279 or take, and we have tens of thousands of votes that get cast. 244 00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:14,319 Now we're not sitting there casting all of these votes. Use proxy advisory firms 245 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,000 and black Rock and some of these others. Though in how some of this, 246 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,240 and there's iss and Glass lewis involved in this, which, by the 247 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:25,480 way, control like ninety five percent of the market space on proxy advisory. 248 00:19:25,519 --> 00:19:30,759 That's a whole other problem. But we passed a law that said our proxy 249 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:37,960 votes can no longer be cast for any ESG measure on any publicly traded board 250 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,039 that is out there. That is a very important thing because when you say 251 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,440 Blackrock has and I don't know what it is as we sit here today, 252 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:51,960 you know nine ten trillion dollars assets under management. It's assets under management. 253 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:57,960 It's other people's money, that's not their money, and they're using that to 254 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,680 be able to leverage power. This is how through proxy voting they're able to 255 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:08,319 change the composition of boards. Like Exxon Mobiles is a great example, right, 256 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,119 that happened a few years back, and they were able to put activist 257 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:21,160 members onto exon mobile and they voted then to push to reduce oil production and 258 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,599 refinery by twenty percent and invest twenty percent in green energy. Well, I 259 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,160 guess we probably could have used that here more recently. So you know, 260 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,319 look, I'm not a oil expert, but I imagine for an oil company 261 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:40,039 is probably better to produce more than less. So that's where you get into 262 00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:45,559 this issue of voting in a manner that only takes kind of the pecuniary interest 263 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:51,599 in the consideration. That's a risk and return and that's what we got back 264 00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:55,319 to, and that's the standard that we're trying that we must be met with 265 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,599 our proxy votes. But that's really where a lot of this power lies is 266 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,079 in the proxy voting. Right. That's why it's so important to take back 267 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,400 control of your voice and your vote and your pension fund. That's why it's 268 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,960 important what they try to do there in Congress. But the Biden administration vetoted 269 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:18,920 it the Congressional Review Act and bring back the Trump rule that protected people's private 270 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:26,240 retirements for one case, right, things like that from ESG considerations. But 271 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,559 Biden was successful, unfortunately, And if I'm elected to Congress, I'm going 272 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:34,119 to do my best to ensure that we turn that back. But I do 273 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,599 think that there, as you rightfully stated, there's some changing and language and 274 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,599 things like that, but we are making progress though on a lot of different 275 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,839 fronts. Here US Bank, I said, I mentioned the example of US 276 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,240 Bank, but Bank of America, which if you'd asked me a couple of 277 00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:55,599 years ago is probably going to be one that was going to receive one of 278 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,119 these letters. Perhaps has changed their policy as well. Talk to them recently 279 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:07,960 and they've gotten criticism now from the other side. But the reason we're going 280 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,119 to win in this, I believe, is we're not asking for like Republican 281 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,039 esg. What we're asking is for the free market to remain free. That's 282 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,480 all we're asking for. We're not asking for special favors for you know, 283 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:26,000 fossil fuel companies or gun companies are in no special favors. All we're asking 284 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:33,440 for is for dollars to flow towards returns and not ideas. It's yeah, 285 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,240 you had a great quote where you so you're asking for banks to act like 286 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,759 banks. Yeah, okay, the left like somebody the water on this and 287 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,440 to make it sound like Republicans have suddenly become anti business, But of course 288 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,400 it's just as simple as acting asking banks to act like banks. Can you 289 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,359 talk a little bit about the backlash. It sounds to me like this has 290 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:59,440 been very popular policy in West Virginia would be very popular basically in any you 291 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,640 know, part of the interior of the country, maybe outside of you know, 292 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,319 Manhattan and Washington, d C. And LA and maybe Chicago. But 293 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440 I imagine this has been met with a lot of support from people in West 294 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,759 Virginia. I think you've spoken one interview about how some of the you know, 295 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,480 industry groups, banking industry groups, were not happy about it at first, 296 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,880 about some of the legislation that you worked on at first. But just 297 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,519 what's the experience of pushing back against the ESG been like in West Virginia. 298 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,960 Yeah, there was a bunch of lobbyists came in here and tried to stop 299 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:38,559 this unsuccessfully, but you know that that was that was pretty interesting to be 300 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,960 to be to be sure. I mean, we had big banks coming in 301 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,640 here and trying to stop this, and you know, you started seeing op 302 00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:52,400 eds from random people popping up all over the place. I'm sure you know, 303 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:55,880 black Rock or whoever had different lobbyists, and I see them hiring folks 304 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,599 all the time in different states. They were working hard in Texas, very 305 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:07,079 very hard down there to try to turn this back. Obviously though they had 306 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:14,759 a very strong Mike interlockerer down there is a called the Comtroller. It's Glenn 307 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:18,559 Hager. He does a wonderful job and yeah. I mean, there's kin 308 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,400 a lot of pushback on this, and then you get a lot of it 309 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,400 from I've talked about proxy voting from really kind of the institutionalized deep state that 310 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,519 exists even in a place like West Virginia, people that think they know better 311 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,519 than me, somebody who is elected by the people to represent their interests on 312 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:45,160 a board rather than some bureaucrat who's been there for thirty some odd years and 313 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,400 thinks they should have all the say in this. And that's the thing, 314 00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:51,960 is like, I mean, you just got to stand up, pushback, 315 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:56,480 fight against this, stand on your principles, and you know you're going to 316 00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:03,880 get some positive results. I think. Yeah. And the other thing is, 317 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,319 I mean, probably the biggest thing with ESG and just the state of 318 00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:14,000 West Virginia and ESG is such a fascinating case study of the hypocrisy of the 319 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:18,839 left right now, because I wanted to ask about how these sort of normal 320 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,559 fault lines, or what the act pretended the left acts like our normal fault 321 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:27,480 lines between the working class and conservatives of the working class and the business community. 322 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:33,759 In West Virginia, you're seeing up close you have the business community sacrificing 323 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:41,799 workers on the mantle of you know, virtue signaling about these very luxurious social 324 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,400 causes. And is that a dynamic that you hear resonates with people that is 325 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,960 frustrating to people when they see that play out. I mean, how does 326 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,279 all of this actually affect people working in coal in your state? Working in 327 00:25:55,319 --> 00:26:00,000 other industries in your state? Yeah, I mean our coal miners, yeah, 328 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,400 workers, I mean, any of those folks. I will tell you 329 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,960 this. I mean, here's an interesting story for you. The United mind 330 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,839 Workers of America, the union, the UMWA here in West Virginia. I 331 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,960 heard from tons of their members, I mean countless numbers of them supporting what 332 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,960 I am doing. Now that's not something very typical, right, have labor 333 00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:30,160 unions out here supporting what you're doing. But not only that, I had 334 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:37,920 pipeliners, welders who are pipe fitters and pipeliners all over the country. I 335 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:45,119 got several thousand thank you letters from union members, which is you know. 336 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,200 I called one of the guys up. I'm like, hey, the the 337 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,440 head of the union, so thank you so much for these thank you letters. 338 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,680 I've never really got a bunch of thank you letters from trade union before. 339 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,599 And he's like, well, we haven't written too many Republicans before, 340 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:08,920 So it's very interesting times that we find ourselves in and kind of a convergence 341 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,680 of mutual interest, particularly when you're talking about kind of blue collar work around 342 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:22,119 the trades, whether it's union or non union or otherwise, that all these 343 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,359 folks want to do is just go to work. They just want to go 344 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:29,279 to work. And the average coal miner in West Virginia is making like ninety 345 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,759 thousand dollars a year. That it is a very good living. They like 346 00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:36,880 these jobs. These are good jobs. We've been doing these jobs for a 347 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,119 very long time. They're safer now than they've ever been. And you got 348 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:47,440 to think in southern West Virginia, you got like an average house is sometimes 349 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,880 one hundred thousand less than one hundred thousand dollars a year, and that's basically 350 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,319 what you make in a year. That's pretty good deal. That's a pretty 351 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:56,759 good deal. And you're able to live, I mean, kind of a 352 00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:02,000 lifestyle here in this country that unfortunately no longer exists in many places where if 353 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,400 you do want to have just one parent working and one parent being able to 354 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,440 stay at home and raise the kids, and you know, it's a really 355 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:18,079 kind of idyllic scenario and situation that we've been able to maintain sometimes here in 356 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,559 West Virginia, but not all the time, right because some of these places 357 00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:25,720 they come take our jobs and they destroy our industries, which we saw with 358 00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:29,720 Obama. A lot of our guys end up working at Walmart and places like 359 00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:34,599 that, and I mean that is that's not living. It's just not you 360 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,480 know, God bless everybody who has to work there. But you know, 361 00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:44,039 you're going from coal miner making ninety thousand dollars a year to door greet or 362 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:45,880 at Walmart. That's pretty hard. That's tough, you know. And this 363 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,920 whole like we're retrain these guys, that's nonsense. They like these jobs. 364 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,119 We need coal. The world needs coal. You got China, Indonesia, 365 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:03,599 India building coal fired power plays at a breakneck speed right now, and they 366 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,880 need coal. Why would we not mind it and exported to them. It 367 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,960 doesn't make any sense at all. So it's all of this is self inflicted 368 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,839 wounds that we have here in this country. And you know, if I 369 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,519 get elected to Congress, what I'd like to see is not only that we're 370 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,480 energy independent, I want to be an energy superpower. Because we actually are 371 00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:26,960 one. We're blessed by God with a tremendous amount of natural resources here in 372 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:33,680 this country, where we could start to leverage those resources overseas and places like 373 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,759 that, where we have surplus energy that we are exporting, and instead of 374 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,599 constantly having to use our military to protect our interests abroad, we could start 375 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,640 using resources like this. And of course even you know, rarest minerals that 376 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:53,119 we have here in the States can usher in different different projects when it comes 377 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,880 to electric vehicles, renewables in general, you don't have to offshore all if 378 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,920 you know, even hypothetically I want to do a so called transition to renewables, 379 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,200 we have plenty of resources here in the States. And that's the last 380 00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:07,200 question I was going to ask you is, I know you spent a long 381 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:12,480 time actually working on national security issues when you worked in Congress. Can you 382 00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:18,799 talk just about the sort of overlap between national security and the push towards ESG 383 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,640 ways that it's maybe imperiled the security of people here in the United States and 384 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,920 our leadership on the world stage. Well, yeah, there's no doubt that 385 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,160 it has. And like I it's a long story, longer than this podcast 386 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,240 would allow. But you know, I started my career off as a welder. 387 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,160 I was working in a mining operation first, not coal, the trap 388 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,400 rock kind of open pit mind stuff. And so I've worked both sides of 389 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:51,920 this, and I did end up going to the Hill and being a staff 390 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,960 member there and had kind of interesting experience and perspective. But yes, I 391 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,599 mean, look, I'll give you a great example. Right now, you 392 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,759 have this war going on in Ukraine, and wouldn't it be something that it 393 00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:12,640 would be pretty fascinating right now if they would allow us to build pipelines export 394 00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:18,160 natural gas instead of right now the Biden administration is shutting down the export of 395 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:22,640 natural gas. We can't build any pipelines. We've been trying to build Mount 396 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,799 Valley pipeline over here in West Virginia, which you might be familiar with that 397 00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:32,720 with the whole Joe Mansion battle and the Senate over that thing that's been going 398 00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:37,920 on for fourteen years. Fourteen years. I mean it begs the question of 399 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,759 what has happened to this country. We built the Empire state building in a 400 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,559 one year and forty five days. We can't build a pipeline in fourteen years. 401 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,640 It is weakening us tremendously. And let's say you're somebody who agrees with 402 00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:56,799 this green energy and energy transition. The energy transition to me is nonsense, 403 00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:00,640 but fine if you agree with it, and you want solar panels and things 404 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,799 like that. We have rare earth minerals here in West Virginia. We have 405 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,000 them here. We have them here, We could do that here. You 406 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:10,920 want electric vehicles, you want to be able to make those batteries. We 407 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,960 have these things here in the United States many times, though, like in 408 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,359 West Virginia, it's co located in coal deposits and you can't get financing many 409 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:22,039 times to be able to extract the cold, to be able to refine the 410 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:29,119 rare earth minerals. We have everything we need in this country to be so 411 00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:34,759 much more self sufficient and then be able to project power in a different way 412 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,759 that complements our military projection of power, but it is not the sole manner 413 00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:44,759 in which we do that more often than not. Now that we were able 414 00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:47,400 to project kind of economic power, obviously, the reserve currents, we are 415 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,200 the reserve currency of the world, and that's great, but we do see 416 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:54,519 China and other countries, particularly China, trying to undercut that right now, 417 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,599 we need to be thinking of other levers of power that we can have out 418 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:01,240 here. I don't like using the term soft power. I guess you could 419 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,799 think of it like that, but this is really hard power. I mean, 420 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,480 Russia's over there, they cut the gas off to Europe whenever they want. 421 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,319 Wouldn't it be great if we're in a position to have that kind of 422 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:17,400 leverage so we're not constantly, always trying to always having to sacrifice resources and 423 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:23,680 manpower and potentially lives to be able to protect our interests abroad. Right Yeah, 424 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,839 absolutely, in the Middle East as well. Just there's so much power 425 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:34,559 here that we export elsewhere because of our dependence on them. Yes, yeah, 426 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,079 I mean you see that happen all the time. I mean we could 427 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,680 change I mean, look, oil, just like any of this. It's 428 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,839 a fungible commodity that goes in the marketplace, and it's going to change the 429 00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:46,119 manner in which it trades. But you know Opek over there wants to start 430 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,559 throttling in production. Jess what price oil goes up? Well, not if 431 00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:53,039 we flood the market, you know. I mean, we could be on 432 00:33:53,079 --> 00:33:58,880 the other side of this and really be in the driver's seat on a lot 433 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,960 more so on oil productuction, natural gas, call you name it. I 434 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,759 mean, it just makes all the sense in the world. You're going on 435 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,679 Tim Poole's show tonight, aren't you. Yeah, I am there you go. 436 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,760 Well, people can hear more of West Virginia State Treasurer Riley more on 437 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,079 till Timpoole's show. You can follow him on his social media And just want 438 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:24,719 to thank you State Treasurer Riley Moore, congressional candidate for West Virginia's second district, 439 00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:29,519 for joining Federal stradio hour today. Well, thank you so much for 440 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:34,599 having me on. I will be on Tim Poole tonight. It's a short 441 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,840 drive because I'm out in the eastern Pinon Handle. He's out in my direction, 442 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,920 which is actually pretty cool for us. So, but in any event, 443 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,199 tune in. Follow me on social media Riley Moore WV that's my Twitter 444 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,000 and Facebook. Check me out. And if you're from West Virginia, you're 445 00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:57,559 listening to this primaries May fourteenth, please vote. Yeah. Tim's got a 446 00:34:57,559 --> 00:35:00,599 wild compound out there. It's a heck of a play. Nice to see, 447 00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:02,960 so that'll be very interesting to watch. Again. You can can watch 448 00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,639 Riley Moore on Tim Poole. You can follow them on social media. I'm 449 00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:09,679 Emily Dashinski, culture editor here at the Federalists. We'll be back soon with 450 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,000 more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the prey A. 451 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,960 You got me right, well you