WEBVTT

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Your Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall
Street Window dot Com and listeners like you

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now Shelly August seventeen, twenty twenty
three, allegedly according to that thing we

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call a calendar, and this is
the show that you might have been looking

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for. So Sore's Day it is, and I'm live, but of course

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most of you catch it further on
down the stream and all that good stuff

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because you like the podcast. Anyways, if you are hearing us live,

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welcome to it, and if not, also welcome to it. Sore's Day.

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Who do I have with me?
Well, good thing, because this

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week I've got Mike Swanson, the
guy buy and Wallstreet Window dot Com,

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the author of The War State,
the author of Why the Vietnam War,

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a bunch of other books on Amazon. You can find two if you look

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up Mike Swanson, but those are
the ones I always focus on, one

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of them having a lot to do
with the military industrial complex, which,

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by the way, on the Sunday
Show, on Aaron's Show on Sunday,

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we actually played the entire speech from
Mike in order to go back over that

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and discuss it on Aaron's Show,
which I thought was odd, But that

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was at the request of the caller, so we did that. Anyway,

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the image that's a pretty long speech
looks like seventeen minutes. It's actually that

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long. That's not that long if
you think about it the whole thing.

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Well, no, Mike, it's
not that long. Think about how long

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speeches are today, and think about
the That was the amazing thing he is.

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Listening to it and listening to the
attitude and the style of speech was

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pretty wild to me. The first
thing I noted is, Gee, it

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doesn't sound like the American carnage speech
that Trump gave it as an inauguration doesn't.

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It doesn't sound like Biden, you
know, it doesn't sound like George

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w It doesn't even sound like slick
Obama, none of that. Right,

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It's delivered with a whole different It's
obviously from a different time, you know

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what I mean, even though the
problems a lot of them still remain the

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same. Uh. You know,
people worried about technological advances. What's gonna

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happen there? Gee, that's not
something from the headlines? Is it?

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Chat? GPT? What's it gonna
do to your job? Are you gonna

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be replaced by AI? Well?
You you bring that up. Let me.

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This is off that what I was
planning to talk about. No problem,

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that always happens. I'm here with
us, Mike Swatson's with me,

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by the way, that's who that
is the case. You guys didn't know

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Wall Street, Window dot com be
and the no go there. Sorry my

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gun. Oh so anyway, I
mean, this is the the technology is

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running out of control. It's more
dangerous than ever. And you mentioned chat

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gdp uh. You know. I'm
just gonna tell a little story that happened

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to I wrote, you know,
an article about someone running for office where

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I live and they're using to go
fund me page to finance their campaign or

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they were right, and their financial
campaign finance filings are out of order.

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And I wrote an article about that. But one thing about go fund me,

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it's not against the law to use
it if you're running for office.

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It leads to a big mess because
it's hard to properly keep track of everything.

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Okay, wait a second. What
you're telling me is that if I

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wanted to, like, say,
run for mayor in my town, I

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could go to go fund me and
set it up like hey fund me to

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run for mayor, and that wouldn't
be a problem. Generally speaking. No,

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I'm saying it's not illegal, it
would still likely lead to problems,

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which is what happened with the spocal
cator there, because you gotta properly keep

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track of where all the donations are
coming from, and go fund me charges

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fees. You have to keep track
of everything. Well yeah, see,

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now technically would that be a donation
or would that be somebody you know giving

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you money for a project like go
fund like? How does that stand lead

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Well, if you're a politician and
you set up a campaign page and go

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fund me, it would be a
political donation. And if you don't put

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that on your campaign finance for you're
violating campaign finance laws. So anyway,

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several months ago, someone told me
this person's using a Go fund me thing

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and it's illegal. That's what they
told me. And this is a not

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very knowledgeable person, a party leader, I'll put it that way. And

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I went and looked up try to
look it up the law, and I

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couldn't find where it's illegal, and
it's it would be a state by state

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issue too. Anyway, what I
did find articles saying it's highly discouraged to

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use it and by you know,
by registrars and voting officials, electrical board

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officials highly discouraged use it. And
this person where I lived used it and

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their forms are messed up and so
forth. But the jet, the chat

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GTP connection is that some people that
were opposed to this candidate after I wrote

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my article, were then sending me
messages saying it's illegal, it's illegal,

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it's illegal. And one of the
messages, the person was quoting Virginia state

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code, okay, the law of
Virginia, you know, state code,

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And in that it actually said what
they quoted me was that something like a

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politician using crowd and it's against the
law to use crowdfunding to finance political campaigns.

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That's what was they were sending me. And it had a link to

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the state you know, website with
all these codes on it. And I'm

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reading this and a lot didn't click
the leak, and when I went to

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the page, it didn't have that
quote on it at all. It was

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actually about a different topic. And
then I went back to the guy that

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said it to me and I said, well, I clicked the leak,

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that's not on the page. Where
are you getting this from? And he

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said, chat GDP, oh boy, so chat GPT showing a bit of

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a problem here with bad references.
Huh see, that's not People do that

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to me all the time, by
the way. They swear up and down

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that you know what, this proves
you're you're wrong about this or that,

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And they send me an article and
I read through the article, Mike,

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and this this is common actually right
now, and I don't know if it's

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coming from chat GPT. You might
be giving me a new insight into this

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because this happens constantly where they say, look, man, I'm going to

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show you something that proves what you
just said on your show last night,

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last week whatever is absolutely wrong.
You don't know what you're talking about.

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Okay, let me let me see. Maybe I'm wrong, right. I

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go look and yeah, I'm like, there is nothing connect like what you're

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saying here. I get that it
makes sense that it would be in the

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headline of this article or whatever,
but this is not proving your case.

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I mean, like literally, they'll
say that this person said exactly the opposite

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thing to what you just said in
an article. Right. For instance,

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I turn around and I say,
look, I'm not quoting this person,

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but essentially they said this in public. So I've got a hard time believing,

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right because I'll go, look,
it contradicts a previous statement. That's

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something I point out all the time
where somebody says, hey, look I

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didn't know this person, and then
it turns out they had a business relationship

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with them. How did you not
know them if you had a business relationship

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with them, especially if both of
you are signings paperwork together, you know,

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and they turn around and they say, no, you know I did

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business with this person. Here I
go, okay, so there's a contradiction.

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They send me an article and it's
got nothing to do with any connection.

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It doesn't show that I'm wrong.
It's it doesn't you know what I'm

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saying. It doesn't actually pertain to
it. It's loosely something like I mean,

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were the laws or codes on there
even close to something having to do

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with financing or crowdfunding at all?
Uh? Not on the real website.

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Not on the real website. I
mean, have they I don't have no

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idea how they came up with that. Well, what did the codes have

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to do with? Because they showed
you something technology is, well, it

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may not be reliable, it may
not be as reliable as people want it

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to be, you know. And
by the way, look, do you

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get YouTube commercials or did you like
get annoyed and picked the premium get the

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commercials? I'm not paying for YouTube? Okay, good, good, Yeah,

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yeah, I'm not giving Google a
damn dyne. I'll tell you that.

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But anyway, look, are you
getting the commercials about We've got a

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great business for you? I don't
know. I don't what's the business I'm

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not paying attention? Okay, Well, there's a couple of businesses. You

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know. Not only does Amazon have
a great business for you. You can

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do this thing you get past the
income blah blah blah. You've seen those

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right where. Look, all you
got to do is set this thing up

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and through an app, you'll make
you know, thousands of dollars every week.

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All right, there's that, And
then there's another one that comes on

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and says, we have this exclusive
thing through chat CHPT, through the through

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the AI stuff, and it's a
business model that you create through them.

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And we're not going to tell you
what it is exactly here, but you

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got to come and sign up for
a video or whatever, right, and

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we'll show you how this works.
And pretty much the AI does all the

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work for you, right, So
they tell you this and it's like look

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and then they say, oh,
look I just got ten thousand dollars.

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I'll show you my PayPal screen.
And they show you a PayPal screen with

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this balance, a brand new deposit
for you know, X thousands of dollars.

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Hey, look here's ten thousand one
day, and then there's like a

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camera effect and then it comes on
again. Look today I got to fourteen

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thousand dollars. And they say,
you know, look, we've got business

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opportunities for you. You can you
was the new AI. I know everybody's

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worried about their jobs, but you
can have a brand new business and not

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too many people know about it get
in on it. I get those all

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the time. So I get that
I'm getting a new I'm getting car commercials

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now because the car broke down again. But but but I mean I get

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you know, all that and fast
food, and I mean, I'm constantly

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bombarded by commercials on there. But
I find it funny that there's a lot

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of people out there saying that you
could make plenty of money with chat GPT,

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because this thing is a great force
multiplier. It's a great way to

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uh, you know, increase your
productivity, to have it do a lot

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of the hard work for you,
to create businesses for you, to help

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you through businesses. Like you've got
a business problem, like Mike. You

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know, we've been discussing you and
me and sometimes openly and sometimes privately on

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here, right, Uh that that
you've got a couple of business ideas.

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Well. What a lot of people
are saying is run it through chats EPT

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and see what chat GPT writes for
you. Well, that's stupid. I'm

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not saying it's stupid or it is
or isn't. I'm just saying I don't

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know if that works. I'm not
gonna try it, but I bet a

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lot of people are trying it.
I know the South Park people wrote a

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script with it, or part of
a script with it. Anyway, did

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you see that months ago? All
right? Well, they they got them

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set, They wrote half a script
and then they let chat GPT write the

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rest of the script on South Park. Okay, so I don't know,

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I don't know what to say about
it. Well, I'll step back for

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a second on that. What you
just you know, right, they let

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the chat GP write the script.
I started to get a feeling, like

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a few years ago that a lot
of these Netflix series and productions movies are

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almost computer scripts. They're so so
cookie cutter or something. Yeah, they're

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so formulaic. The formulaic. Yeah, that's the word for it that I

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felt. I started to feel like
they're just uh, yeah, the formulas

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are generating these scripts, and it
almost feels like even that good they suck.

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Yeah. No, it feels like
there's a lot of television production nowadays

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that already feels like because that's the
thing, you know that we got that

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strike going on with the writers,
right yeah, And to me, I'm

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wondering if it's because they know something
that we don't, which is that a

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lot of the alleged writers currently are
not real writers, and it's just somebody

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pitching an idea to an AI who
says, look, here, I want

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to write a bad guy this way. I want the world to be,

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you know, in this particular year
or whatever, and give me this city,

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like given, give a few pieces
of information, and then here go

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write me a script. And I'm
wondering if a lot of those scripts have

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not been just generated in that way, and yeah, you save a lot

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of money that way, if you
don't have to pay a scriptwriter, you

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pay a pitch guy to pitch,
to chat and GPT or one of these

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other ais. And you know,
look, you could give me five hundred

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bucks a week. I could probably
do that one hundred times and I'd sit

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here and do it. And I
guarantee you that would cost you a lot

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less than having people try to make
a living off of scriptwriting and if it

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works. See. That's the funny
thing too, is that Netflix at one

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point had something like one hundred and
six productions going supposedly during the pandemic,

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right like over one hundred productions they
were in some stage of working on.

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I'm sitting there going, how the
hell do they have that many people employed?

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You know, doing that just the
writing alone, I mean, forget

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about the actors, and who knows
if the actors are being generated. And

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it's really funny because you know that
a series Black Mirror, right, you

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remember that series? I didn't see
that one. What's that about? Oh

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you never saw a Black Mirror?
Okay? Black Mirror is all about how

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technology can get out of control,
or at least it was a lot of

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the strange things that we might be
doing with AI consciousness and copying people's consciousness

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and people being way too hooked into
the Internet and the virtual world and recording

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their lives and all kinds of things
like this. Uh from It's it's pretty

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outlandish and outrageous and a pretty good
series, and to be honest, I

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was entertained by it a lot,
but it's been very inconsistent in the last

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season that they just surprise put out
like like six episodes. Again. One

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of the things begins with somebody watching
and AI generate a script based on this

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person's life, who is just this
person who is like, you know,

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nobody's special, but they're they're just
like, you know, whatever her name

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is, she just sucks, and
they follow her through her life and they're

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literally generating her life into a Netflix
series, like as it's happening through some

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sort of AI that is just picking
up on one viewer and it's it's a

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very weird concept. But they recently
released this thing, and I'm going,

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I wonder if that's somebody trying to
tell us that, yeah, you just

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hand parameters to an AI and maybe
they are just generating scripts this way.

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I'm not saying they do all of
it. That way. But I mean

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it wouldn't be hard to imagine,
especially with the comic book movies and the

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fact that they're just reusing intellectual properties
over and over again. That right,

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look script, you know Genus mentioned
Star Trek. I read a book about

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the originals, you know how ten
years ago. I don't I read some

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book about the making of the original
Star Trek TV series. And which one

218
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because I read a few of them. Oh, I don't remember the name

219
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of it. The one by William
Shatner is really actually pretty bad. It

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wasn't by one of the actors.
Well, the one by William Shatner is

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really good. It's called Star Trek
Memoirs. And he actually goes and interviews

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a lot of people that were involved
in it, and Roddenberry's wife and all

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that, and gets a lot of
the behind the scenes stories and a lot

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of the lore, if you will, the stuff that we know about the

225
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development of the show and all that
is well built into that. If you

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want to get yourself an audiobook copy
of it, I'm sure you have an

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audiobook subscription or something somewhere. Get
that one by Shotton or Star Trek Memoirs.

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I think it was put out in
the nineties. It's very good talking

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about the original series and a lot
of the stuff that they did to get

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it done. Gene Roddenberry's history as
a sickly child to start with, and

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later on he's working as a cop
and he turns around and almost acts like

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he's going to arrest a studio guy
and drops the script in front of him

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for you know, that's how he
gets it to be a TV writer.

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All that stuff is contained in that
book. But go ahead, tell me

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about what you read about the making
of Star Trek. Well, one of

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the things I remember was it talked
about Roddenberry writing scripts, and he had

237
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a book and I bought it.
I don't again, I don't have these

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books sit in front of me,
but it said that Roddenberry bought this book

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about writing plays, and you know, maybe it's written in the thirties or

240
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forties or something. And I went
and bought that book and read it,

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and then I had basically make a
long story short for what I remember the

242
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most of I mean, you can
tell if you really think about it.

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The original Star Trek shows, they
all have a very similar structure to them,

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the way the story structured that the
beginning is very simple to see that,

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and and each beginning, you know, before the credits start, there's

246
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some crisis situation that's revealed. And
almost every single episode, I mean,

247
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yeah, you go back into the
world of Star Trek. Okay, something

248
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goes on where they're now going to
encounter an antagonist of some type. Yeah,

249
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there's trouble right away of some sort, some kind of problem needs to

250
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be handled. And now go to
the intro of the show, and then

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it goes you know, Okay,
they lay out the rest of the conflict

252
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in detail. You get to get
introduced to the antagonist a bit more.

253
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What is the solution? Okay,
the people involved in the crew have to

254
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get involved in the solution, very
Shenani gets insue, et cetera. Conflict

255
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resolution at the end lesson basically handled
by the crew. They discuss it fade

256
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to black. I mean, that's
pretty much the structure of the original Star

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Trek, right, yeah, yeah. And the thing about is we just

258
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described a structure you know that's really
yeah. I can't think of an episode

259
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that's not like that, right,
But the thing is, here's the formula.

260
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Here's a structure to every single episode, which is very similar, and

261
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yet you don't feel like you're watching
something that's generated by an AI bought.

262
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No, it's not plain. You're
looking for the wrinkles because is this a

263
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conflict that is, you know,
a straight up military problem. Are they

264
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being attacked? Is it a difficulty
with There's something they don't understand that's happening,

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Something weird is going on that might
cause danger. There were all sorts

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of different elements that came in that
came from these different script writers. Some

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of them were science fiction writers,
you know that wrote long form science fiction,

268
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right, you know, like Ellefson
and uh you know, there was

269
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an ASTHMOV script that was supposed to
have been adopted. Various writers went in

270
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.240
and out and did and added their
own little twist of these things, right,

271
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So you could definitely see there was
some form of dynamic in there.

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And especially when you get to the
third season, it gets really weird and

273
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they're just you know, swapping k
Kirk's body with a with a woman for

274
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some reason. Uh right, remember
that episode, like all of a sudden,

275
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he's a woman. Oh yeah,
and uh yeah, I mean that

276
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episode sucks. I mean it's almost
as bad as Fox Brain. You know,

277
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and the spots brain thing where an
alien stole spox brain. But somehow

278
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.920
they can keep him alive with these
you know, like a funky metal almost

279
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.039
headphones on the side of his head, right, and he's walking around like

280
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.880
a zombie because they got a remote
control on him. I mean either way,

281
00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:27.039
some of the premises were you know, a bit screwy, but yeah,

282
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yeah, look it was, but
it was formulaic. It was based

283
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.960
on a formula and it was also
based on a bible that that Roddenberry had,

284
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Right, here's what you can do
with these people, Here's where these

285
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people come from. Here's the rules
of the world, so to speak.

286
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.440
Right, all that stuff was built
into what he called a show Bible,

287
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which, by the way, later
on you could buy these things. They

288
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:53.039
printed him for the public too,
where it gives you all the background,

289
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:57.160
all the history, all that kind
of stuff, so that everything could be

290
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:02.920
consistent even when you brought in new
writers. Right. So that's how they

291
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.440
kept it in the same realm and
with the same structure, but very much

292
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based on what they call a teleplay, which meant that, yeah, you

293
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had a structure where you had a
you know, a protagonist and antagonist,

294
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a conflict, conflict resolution, and
each of these things will be broken down

295
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:26.119
into acts which were split up by
the commercials. Right, I mean that's

296
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just the way it was done,
yes or no, Yeah, that's right.

297
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Sure. And look, by the
way, when you when you go

298
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through these writing exercises, I mean, how many people have I heard from

299
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that wanted to write their first book? So they get a book on how

300
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.720
to write a book? Uh,
you know, whether it's a novel or

301
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.519
it's a nonfiction book. You can
find these things how to write a book,

302
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.079
or how to write a novel or
etc. How to write a play.

303
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:53.920
Those books continue to exist even beyond
Roddenberry getting his and the thirties or

304
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:00.119
from the thirties or forties and then
getting his role going in the fifties and

305
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.000
writing in the Golden Age television writing
for the Rifleman and the Lieutenant and uh

306
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:08.519
these other TV shows. Right.
So it's interesting to see that, and

307
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.119
of course it's it's part and parcel
of that. But you're right, you

308
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.680
don't get a sense though that even
though there is a formula, there's a

309
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:22.039
standard, there's a world established,
there are characters established which are supposed to

310
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.920
be consistent and all of that,
you still don't get the feeling that you're

311
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.720
dealing with a cookie cutter. Do
you well? That there was a movie

312
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.640
I mentioned it once, I know, on your show, but it's what

313
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:40.119
really soured me on this. Told
I've Netflix and all these things. It

314
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.119
was a Spike Lee movie. Okay. It came out in twenty twenty,

315
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.359
and it was called The Five Bloods
Five Bloods. Okay. Yeah, it

316
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.759
was a Vietnam movie. And the
story was as all these you know,

317
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:04.039
older actors all black. Deloy Lindo
was one, Clark Peters, Isaiah Whitcock,

318
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:11.119
Whitlock anyway, anyway, six or
seventies guys, and they're all Vietnam

319
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:22.400
veterans and they're going back to Vietnam
today and and they're looking for somehow they

320
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.920
there's a treasure of gold buried some
you know, one of the battles they

321
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:33.519
were at next to uh a falling
officer that they served with, and they're

322
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:40.440
going back to find this. And
so they're in Ho Chi Minh City and

323
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.039
going to bars and all this kind
of stuff to get up a team and

324
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:53.079
do this supposed mission. And I
couldn't watch it for like forty minutes.

325
00:23:53.079 --> 00:24:00.400
So this thing was nominated for an
oscar and I just couldn't take cliches.

326
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:07.119
It doesn't sound very entertaining. It
was awful. It was just complete awful.

327
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.200
So like, for instance, what
has to happen, Well, it

328
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:22.759
turns out one of these veterans has
has to go visit uh this what's a

329
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.759
woman that you know, a Vietnamese
lady that she was a prostitute of bar

330
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.440
girl or whatever you call. So
let me guess he knocked her up and

331
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:36.279
they got knocked of course. You
see how I'm guessing she has a black

332
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:38.440
child. You see, I'm guessing
these plot points already. Go ahead,

333
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:44.319
sorry, And and what do you
know? Well, now somehow she herself

334
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.920
is this wealthy, powerful woman that
helps them, you know, get some

335
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.720
resources for their mission. And then
when they do go out to do to

336
00:24:53.759 --> 00:25:03.680
find this gold, there's a old
hugheye hellicat that you know that they find

337
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.160
out in the jungle. And oh
and one of them steps in the land

338
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.880
mine that's still active. Oh wow, okay, I have to defuse it.

339
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.839
I just couldn't watch it anymore.
Okay, landmine cliche. They're trying

340
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.640
to get ahold of a helicopter that's
just been sitting in the jungle all this

341
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.680
time, but it's still intact.
Okay. The woman who was a bar

342
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.160
girl who was just trying to make
a living and sleeping with soldiers, she

343
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.960
has tons of money now so she
hooks them up. Yeah, okay,

344
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.240
yeah, all right, And I'm
getting the gist of this thing already,

345
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.559
and I could see how it sucked. Yeah. I never heard of this.

346
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.599
By the way, the last movie
that I knew about Spike Lee doing

347
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:44.119
outside of that HBO special on nine
to eleven, right, was was what

348
00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.880
the Black Clansman. Well, yeah, this this was not like that movie

349
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.759
I saw that one. That's not
bad. That's not a bad movie.

350
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.079
Black Okay, it's like the greatest
movie in the world. But but it's

351
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:59.640
okay, and it tells a real
story, right, which which I you

352
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:03.599
know, you know me, I'm
partial the true history when it comes to

353
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.720
watching movies, which is the next
thing that you and I are going to

354
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:08.359
get into in a moment. We
might take a quick break before we get

355
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:14.279
there. But but the thing is, I love movies that tell true you

356
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.039
know, based on a true story
or you know, biopics things like this.

357
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:21.240
I love that stuff. Uh,
do you do you you kind of

358
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:22.640
have a soft spot for that too, where you go to see history?

359
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.119
Okay, yeah, I thought so
you and I have this in common.

360
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.359
I mean, if you and I
live closer, we might actually go to

361
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.160
some movies together once in a while, because I bet there are movies you

362
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:36.720
and I would both want to see, Like like, if they do pull

363
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:38.319
this together, this fourth Star Trek
movie, you might want to go see

364
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.599
it. Anyways, forget about Star
Trek. We're off Star Trek. But

365
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:48.599
okay, the four Bloods, the
five bloods? How many bloods? Five?

366
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.319
Okay, this sounds terrible, And
I gotta be honest with you.

367
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.680
It's Spike Lee. As much as
he's celebrated by tons of people. Uh,

368
00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.839
he's done some very good movies,
you know, like Do the Right

369
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.079
Thing is a very good movie,
sure to me. But he's also done

370
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:07.640
some really bad movies. Uh that
that I look at and I go,

371
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.200
all right, well, this isn't
even cartoony. This is just terrible.

372
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.960
I thought he did an adequate job
with Malcolm X. Did you ever see

373
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.880
the long Malcolm X movie? Yeah, he did a good job with that,

374
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.079
right, And like I said,
Black Klansman's good but a lot of

375
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.160
his other stuff is awful, and
I mean just awful. And I know,

376
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.000
you know, at the time he
first came out, there was very

377
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.960
few you know, black directors and
very few black people that ran their own

378
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.279
movie sets. That's no longer the
case, but at that time it was.

379
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.680
He was kind of rare, right
in the in the nineties, you

380
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.960
know what I'm saying. But nowadays
this is not rare. And he's not

381
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.920
even really that good as a director. I don't know. Maybe maybe it's

382
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.440
just so I'm looking at his list
of movies. Is this five Bloods.

383
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.160
This is the last one he's made
just three years ago. Well, you

384
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.720
know what, and I paid zero
attention to it, and it looks like

385
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.799
I did the right thing. You
know, it just came and went,

386
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:18.400
yeah, good thing. But but
it was not. That's happening is because

387
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.960
of streaming and aline video. Things
come and go and they vanished. Oh

388
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.440
yeah, Like I'll give you a
good example of that. You know that,

389
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.960
Uh what was it? Everybody waited
for twenty years or thirty years almost

390
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:34.759
for what another Uh well it was
a Tom Cruise Top Gun, right,

391
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.519
Everybody wanted to see another Top Gun
movie, and uh, you get it.

392
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:42.880
It was only in the theater a
short amount of time and next thing

393
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.839
you know, it's on streaming.
Tell you something else funny is that I

394
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.960
don't care what anybody says. I'm
not going to see the new Indiana Jones

395
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.759
movie. Awful. It looks absolutely
terrible. And even when people are trying

396
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.240
to tell me it's good and trying
to talk to me about it, they

397
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:00.359
explained it to anything they explained to
me sounds awful, And I'm going,

398
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.720
how do you like this? This
sounds absolutely terrible. I get it's an

399
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.240
interesting idea that you know, you
have this, Uh, everybody loves I

400
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:15.799
mean not everybody, but commonly people
appreciate time travel stories right where somebody goes

401
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.880
back in the past, you know, the back to the future so to

402
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.240
speak. I mean, that's like
classic cinema to a lot of people,

403
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:26.119
right because you get to go back
in the past and correct something. Almost

404
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.920
anybody's got that wish because we all
live our lives with regrets. Boom.

405
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.200
That's the entire formula as to why
that's attractive and a good hook as a

406
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:38.839
movie. But this whole Indiana Jones
trying to go back, I don't want

407
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:44.200
Indiana Jones to go back into the
future. You know, I mean,

408
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:49.279
that sounds just incredibly stupid and pointless. You know, what are you gonna

409
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.640
do? I mean, unless you're
going to take Indiana Jones back to the

410
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.200
time the Ark of the Covenant was
constructed so that he can try and you

411
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.279
know, take it before we get
to Raiders somehow, or at least figure

412
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.680
out the rest of the mystery,
long before we get to the part where

413
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.599
the Nazis are getting their heads blown
off by the crazy mystical light show.

414
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.839
Yeah. I don't care. I
really, I don't care what any you

415
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.759
know, I thought we were done
with this Harrison Ford. It's just like

416
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:17.480
they want to squeeze the last little
bit out of him before he drops dead.

417
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:21.599
Let's get him back in his Han
solo. Let's get him back in

418
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:25.519
his Indiana Jones. Why don't we
just make another fugitive movie with him?

419
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:26.200
What the hell? I mean?
Yeah, he's really old, but this

420
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.319
time he can fly a plane maybe, I mean, come on, it's

421
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.359
just stupid. Anyways, Mike,
you know what I'm gonna do. I'm

422
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.799
gonna take a quick break because you
and I are already doing media analysis and

423
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.319
you didn't intend to talk about this
tonight, but we'll get into one of

424
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.880
your more intended topics after this short
break on Ocelli dot com, the Ocelli

425
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.000
effect here on a Thursday. Mike
Swanson is with me, and we'll be

426
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.160
right back to talk about it is
slightly more current events, although we did

427
00:30:52.160 --> 00:31:15.279
discuss chat chpt awhile. Anyways,
stick around Wall Street, Streetindow dot do

428
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:27.000
go silver, the stock market,
Wall Street, Greindow dot dot. You're

429
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:32.240
invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in
deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting

430
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:37.519
started Wall Street, Windows, dot
com, do dot com. Michael Swanson,

431
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:41.319
the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many

432
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.200
years, and now he gives you
the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street,

433
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:52.759
Street, Indow, dot dot go
there, now go there, now

434
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.480
go there? Now did he was
expressed like coiler schools? There anyone else

435
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:57.359
who happens to get on the air. Its only dot com. You'm not

436
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:07.240
necessarily replying views of which we are
not responsible for getting stupidity which might dwork.

437
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.279
Hey, look, I actually have
a little offer that I want to

438
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:14.279
drop to everybody who's on here and
anybody listening if if you don't mind,

439
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.440
mister Cooper, I'd like to take
a minute and make a little offer and

440
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.119
uh and ask of everybody watching,
listening and participating. No, all,

441
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:28.000
okay. Look, I am continuously
building my little network, and I've got

442
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.759
a twenty four seven radio station okay
online, it's got a bit of reach.

443
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:37.359
It's been interesting. I've had it
running steadily without interruption for I don't

444
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.720
know, five seven years something like
that. But here's the thing I would

445
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:45.599
love to get, because some people
are going to start paying to run things

446
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.680
on my radio station, but I
don't. I'm not looking for money here

447
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.240
today. Uh well, I mean, you know, I'll take it if

448
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:54.599
anybody's got something they want to give
it up, but you know, because

449
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:59.079
I could use it, but I'm
not looking for that right this minute.

450
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:05.200
My offer is simple, Actually,
if you have short audios that you would

451
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:10.079
like because you have a presentation of
tight five ten minutes worth of something that

452
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:14.680
you think is absolutely worthy of the
world hearing. Okay, Because I have

453
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.839
listeners all over the world to that
radio station. They're not in huge numbers

454
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.279
all at one time, but they're
constant twenty four seven. Every country you

455
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.680
could possibly think of tunes into my
radio station at one point or another.

456
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.200
It's not huge. It's not like, oh, I've got millions of listeners,

457
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.400
but we do have thousands, and
we have thousands of people that tune

458
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.599
in and catch get mad with Chris
Graves and catch the replays and catch my

459
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.680
show, which is the o'chelli effect, and they catch the replaces, and

460
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.079
they catch Aaron Fronz as the age
of transitions. Pretty soon they're going to

461
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:51.079
be catching the called Priestess on there
anyway. And I've got offers to other

462
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.480
people to join us, you know, working on it. But here's the

463
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.839
thing. I don't care if you're
a podcaster, or if you're a musician,

464
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:01.359
or if you're somebody who's got some
great thoughts, so you take the

465
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:06.160
world needs to hear. Do me
a favor, record them, make an

466
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:10.400
MP three and send them on over
to me. I want to start populating

467
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.880
the stream for the next little while
with stuff that I'm not charging anybody to

468
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:21.679
run. It's just good stuff.
Send me your good stuff, okay,

469
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:27.440
blind JFK researcher at gmail dot com. Just email it to me. All

470
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.639
right, you got music, Maybe
you're a musician, maybe you're a podcaster,

471
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:34.800
and you want to do an ad
for your podcast because you want other

472
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:37.599
people to listen. You haven't been
a guest on my show. Maybe you

473
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:39.079
have been a guest on my show. I don't care. Throw me together

474
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:43.360
a couple of minutes. Tell me
why people should listen to you. Tell

475
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.559
me why people should pay attention to
something else. Why should they pay attention

476
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:51.400
to what's going on in congress?
I don't care. Send it over to

477
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:57.519
me, Okay. I want to
populate this with anybody who's got good ideas.

478
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.679
Okay, it is outside of them
mainstream for the next little while.

479
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:06.039
We'll still run our replays, we'll
still run our regular shows, Okay,

480
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.000
but I want to see what happens
if I open it to everybody. I'm

481
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.639
not asking you to pay for ads. And again, you could do an

482
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.800
ad for your podcast. You could
do an ad for your rock Finn channel.

483
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:21.360
You can. I don't care.
Send me something that is of interest,

484
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.199
that moves information forward, that helps
to educate people, whether it's your

485
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.840
project, your song, your poem, your article, you want, your

486
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.119
your a writer you like to write, read me your article, send it

487
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:38.039
to me. Okay, do any
of this and send it to blind JFK

488
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:43.719
researcher at gmail dot com. If
you can't remember that, go to Shelley

489
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:45.599
dot com, click on the email
thing there. It might go to that

490
00:35:45.719 --> 00:36:00.960
email address, it might go to
infooto Shelly dot com. We're listening to

491
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:36.360
the Ocelli dot Com radio network Ochili
dot com Revelation to Conversation and the second

492
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.679
segment of the Ocelli Effect begins now
at o'ceelli dot com. But of course

493
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:44.079
you could be anytime, any place
listening to us via the podcast Mike Swanson

494
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.440
with me Wall Street Window dot com
being the no go to Wall Street Window

495
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:50.920
dot com now. Of course,
in the past few weeks, I'm sure

496
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.599
Mike has put out articles in his
emails that have something to do with,

497
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:58.719
I don't know, the rising cost
of just trying to survive here in the

498
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.960
US. I think the latest figures, which, by the way, as

499
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:06.039
per usual, underreported saying that what
it costs you about seven hundred more dollars

500
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:08.280
a month just to live. Yeah, yeah, I wish, I wish

501
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:14.239
because I probably could have dealt with
that. But as I go, things

502
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:17.079
are not going well. My income
goes down, my expenses go up,

503
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:22.280
and yeah, I know, Chuck, welcome to the planet Earth at this

504
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:27.039
time. But by tonomics are supposed
to save us, right, Yeah,

505
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.760
anyways, that's going on Trump being
indicted. What are we up to for?

506
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:35.800
I think we're up to four the
ridiculousness of what's happening in Georgia.

507
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:37.960
They're talking about plotting out trials that
are never going to get done because there's

508
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.320
gonna be all sorts of appeals,
resistance motions to separate all that good stuff.

509
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:49.239
All that stuff's coming up. And
everybody looking forward to the twenty twenty

510
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.159
four selection, aren't they. I'm
pausing for sarcasm, by the bye.

511
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:58.679
Anyhow, all of that is happening, true, but we're not going to

512
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:00.639
discuss that tonight. We would talk
about the markets. We could talk about

513
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:04.159
the movements, we could talk about
the lack of it. We could talk

514
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.360
about maybe it's a good time to
buy gold and silver. And I'm still

515
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.119
not going for this cryptos crap,
by the way, still not doing it.

516
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.119
I know I lost out on a
lot of money, but I also

517
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:16.280
lost out on a lot of headache. And oh, by the way,

518
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.320
I can't even find the key to
my crypto wallet anymore. Maybe you can

519
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.599
and maybe you're doing well, and
I hope you are, and by the

520
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.840
way, more than happy to accept
the donation at Ocelli dot com if you

521
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.800
want to help us out and keep
us on the air. But back to

522
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.360
a guy who does keep us on
the air, and a guy who does

523
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:38.760
help us out and also is generous
enough to give us his time on a

524
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:43.039
lot of Thursdays nowadays, a few
less than it used to be, but

525
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.039
every other Thor's Day at least we
get Mike Swanson. Next week, we'll

526
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.599
have Larry Hancock with us. By
the way, Mike, are you gonna

527
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:52.239
be around next week? Yeah,
I'll be here all right. So we'll

528
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.000
do a double show next Thursday.
Next Thor's Day, we'll do a double

529
00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:59.960
show with Mike and Larry, And
I've got an interesting discussion with Larry playing.

530
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:01.960
And who knows what'll be on Mike's
mind, because I just go with

531
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:06.920
what's on Mike's mind on a day
today when he shows up on a Thor's

532
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.599
Day. However, I am interested
in something Mike's view on a new movie,

533
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:15.400
because what did we hear about in
the news for a little bit when

534
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.039
they had nothing else to report and
they didn't want to tell us about cluster

535
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.760
bombs. They didn't want to tell
us about Ukraine, They didn't want to

536
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:24.119
tell us about Trump's indictments. Nope, just before the rash of Trump's indictments,

537
00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:30.599
they released Oppenheimer and Barbie to the
movie theaters. And apparently this was

538
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:37.079
all the rage and all anybody wanted
to talk about and Oppenheimer, it evokes

539
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.840
some interesting thoughts in my mind,
just the title alone. But Mike,

540
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.679
a historical piece. I just asked
you a last segment. Do you like

541
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:51.079
historical movies? Do you like things
that are based on real history, real

542
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:53.840
people, biopics? And I already
knew the answer. Of course you do.

543
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:58.119
Like I said, you and I
could probably go to some movies together.

544
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.639
Oppenheimer, I would have loved to
have gone to the theater with you

545
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.880
because I would have loved to see
what you thought and what I thought afterwards.

546
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.760
Even who knows, we could have
made a whole podcast out of that.

547
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.039
But instead, Uh, tell me
about it, man, what did

548
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:13.679
you think? Obviously you didn't go
see Barbie, and I'm not going to

549
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:16.400
ask you about that, because if
you went to see Barbie, Mike,

550
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:21.400
Uh, unless you have a niece, somewhere. I don't know about that

551
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.920
you had to take to the theater. I'd be worried for you. So

552
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:29.159
I know you went to see Oppenheimer. What's up? I mean? Is

553
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:30.840
this a good movie? I haven't
seen it yet. Is it a decent

554
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:35.280
movie? Is it something worthy of
me going and finding a bootleg weight of

555
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:37.119
you? Uh? Tell me about
it? What do you think? Oh?

556
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.840
Yeah, it was really it was
really a well done movie. And

557
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:47.719
uh, it's it's really worth watching. Okay, So historical background, this

558
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.519
is a key figure in developing the
Manhattan Project, right, which is all

559
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.760
about charge the Manhattan Project. The
scientists and charged the man at project.

560
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:05.239
Leslie Grows was a general who created
the pen He was in charge of building

561
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:09.360
the Pentagon, and when that was
complete, they put him in charge of,

562
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:16.679
you know, the Manhattan Project as
far as getting the resources, doing

563
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:25.400
the engineering and the military men and
Oppenheiger picked a team of scientists across the

564
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:30.000
United States to help, you know, figure out how to build the atomic

565
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:38.360
bomb. Now, two years ago
I went back and read a book.

566
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.960
You know a lot of people conspiracy
world always talks about it. But the

567
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.360
Carol quickly tragedy and hope book.
I had actually read it when I was

568
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:51.079
like twenty years old. When I
went back and reread it, I was

569
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.320
gonna say, you read it when
you went to college, right, yeah,

570
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:59.199
I was community college, but when
I read it. But anyway,

571
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:05.400
but reading it a second time,
he has a whole section of the book

572
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.480
devoted pages of the book, a
big, big, big portion of it

573
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:19.599
devoted to Robert Oppenheiher. In the
nineteen fifties, he lost his security clearance

574
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.559
due to accusations that he could have
been a communist. Okay, well,

575
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:29.119
yeah, let's let's pause for a
second here, because this is significant couple

576
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:34.199
of things. One, you have
various stages of Oppenheimer right where he's like

577
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:39.119
a secret hero in US history,
and part of the official story about how

578
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:43.480
the bomb was created, right,
the thing that helped us win World War

579
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.039
two, according to legend, and
the thing that was developed through the Manhattan

580
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:52.880
Project. Now I suspect, Mike
that that maybe that's not the whole story,

581
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.599
that maybe that's the official story they
share. I'm almost certain that this

582
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:05.119
was developed, you know, probably
with some some let's say stolen information.

583
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.440
This was developed you know, by
scientists, maybe in other parts of the

584
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:13.320
world. Simultaneously there were other things
going on, but there was an American

585
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.119
operation. This guy was at the
center of it, and clearly somebody was

586
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.400
in a sensitive position, if indeed
that story is even remotely true, right,

587
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.079
the official narrative. And then later, just like many many, many

588
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:31.360
others, is dragged into the McCarthy
era where it's like, right, and

589
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:36.920
so during the war, would I
say he's in charge of developing it.

590
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:43.960
He was more like a supervisor of
the other scientists. And with the movie

591
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:50.800
shows and I actually, after reading
the Quickly thing, I actually read the

592
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.199
book that this movie is based on. Right, So I had already read

593
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:59.039
it, you know, a year
or two ago, but because the Quickly

594
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:01.960
stuff is so interesting to me.
So to make a long store short,

595
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:13.960
before the US entered World War two, Oppenheimer was a left wing fella,

596
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:19.280
and he was he He didn't join
the Communist Party, but he would attend

597
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:24.719
beings that had Communists there, which
at the time, you know, in

598
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:30.320
the nineteen thirties, wasn't that out
of the ordinary. Well, there was

599
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.239
a lot of wild things going on
in the nineteen thirties, and not the

600
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:38.360
least of which was the American boomed. Uh, you know, the German

601
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:44.239
organization, right, and and there
was another, uh, the Silver Shirts

602
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:49.400
society there that guy in Hollywood created. There were literal Nazi parties in the

603
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:54.079
US. There were literal Communist parties
in the US. Uh. There was

604
00:44:54.199 --> 00:45:00.239
a wide range of things that you
would think wouldn't exist today at all,

605
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:01.559
right, because nobody would ever let
that get away, you know. I

606
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:06.159
mean we got extremists now, but
they're not like this where it's like,

607
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:10.199
hey, you know communism Nazism directly, But that existed in the thirties,

608
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.280
So I mean you had a greater
amount of access. I mean literally,

609
00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:17.199
by the way, the Nazis had
a rally at Madison Square Garden in New

610
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:22.360
York City in the nineteen thirties.
That's a true story. Uh, you

611
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:23.519
know what I'm talking about, right, the guy called Yeah, yeah,

612
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.639
people should look that up. It's
there's a video of it called Night of

613
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:31.360
the Garden. You just typed it
in on YouTube. So what happened to

614
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:36.000
the Oppenheiger? The basic story is
yeah, I'm just saying though, that

615
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:37.840
he had access to a lot of
things that would have been a lot more

616
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:43.840
wild politically than you might see today. And literally this is about people getting

617
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.119
together. It's not Facebook pages,
folks. I mean, yeah, yeah.

618
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:50.000
You go to homes, you go
to beings, you go to a

619
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.519
big hall. Uh you know,
maybe somebody rents out a high school gym

620
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:57.920
locally, or it gets bigger,
you might rent out a small indoor sports

621
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:04.159
stadium, a basketball arena. Whatever. People got together and actually had you

622
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:08.920
know, little rallies and discussions and
open forums and demonstrations and yeah, it

623
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.480
was it was a little bit of
a different time period. So this guy,

624
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:15.599
of course, he goes to a
couple of things that are more far

625
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:21.760
left than he is. Uh maybe, and uh yeah. So so this

626
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:24.639
is what made him suspect, I
guess, and he was. That's what

627
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:29.000
I want to get at. What
what triggered what really made him suspect.

628
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:37.960
So once the tomic bomb is dropped, he becomes, you know, celebrity,

629
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:43.400
his pictures on Time magazines, in
the media of the place. You

630
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.159
know, the scientists invented the bomb, so to speak. Well, he's

631
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:51.599
a hero because exactly, and World
War two quickly that that's always been the

632
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.480
big legend, right, is that
we dropped the bomb on Japan. Even

633
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:59.639
though by the way, the savage
bombing of Tokyo and another city. Well,

634
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:02.760
that's a whole lot more, whole
other topic. Well, but in

635
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:07.079
truth, I'm just bringing up some
context here is that the fire bombings that

636
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.199
were done by you know, by
a guy named LeMay by the way,

637
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:15.079
uh, you know, we're a
whole lot more devastating, caused a lot

638
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.079
more casualties, caused a lot more
death straight up than even the nuclear bombs.

639
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.920
But the nuclear bombs, the atomic
bombs excuse me, that were dropped

640
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:27.079
you know, big Man and Little
Boy or whatever the hell they called them,

641
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.320
those were the big headline that ended
the war, right, The Japanese

642
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.480
surrendered because we bombed them, and
although it was the most horrible thing ever

643
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:40.480
loosed on earth, it was necessary
to end this horrible you know. Speaking

644
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:46.360
about the bombings, the movie in
one sense is sanitized because they showed the

645
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:51.119
trinity test, that's the test of
the first bomb. But there's not a

646
00:47:51.159 --> 00:48:00.480
single image of the destruction of nagasakr
Hiroshima at all. You see, there's

647
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:07.000
a scene where Oppenheimer and some scientists
are looking at footage of this buttbably film.

648
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.760
You probably look at their their faces
and the flashing on their faces.

649
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.920
Yeah, yeah, but you don't
actually see the images. And I gotta

650
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:20.199
say, I got a book I
bought a couple of years ago that is

651
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:27.039
full of pictures of those two bombings
that had never been released before. And

652
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:35.559
what happened was after the bombings happened, the military, the US military sent

653
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.840
people there to take pictures and to
study, you know, what happened to

654
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.400
these people that survived basically, well
any whole other stories. Well, anytime

655
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:49.079
the military has used any sort of
weapon, especially if it's considered to be

656
00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:52.880
quote new end quote, they always
send people to study what the results were

657
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.719
once it's been used, right and
after action report what happened. So this

658
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:00.199
is normal, all normal, but
interest thing that they didn't show any of

659
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:05.519
that they probably showed the launching of
the Enola Gay right like where they showed,

660
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.119
they didn't do that. I see. These are my guesses because I

661
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:09.920
didn't see the movie, all right, but we'll go ahead. No,

662
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:17.440
they didn't show the picture to make
the arc of this Oppenheimer quick. So

663
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:22.280
after the war, after the after
World War two ends, he becomes very

664
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:30.639
fearful of a coming arms race and
there's an aborted you know, he tries

665
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:35.760
to encourage control of the nuclear weapons, not you know, just to prevent

666
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:39.559
an arm race, to have international
control of of the weapons. And there

667
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:45.400
were other scientists interested in that.
Of course it went nowhere, and then

668
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:52.960
several well, the other scientists they
wanted to develop the hydrogen bottom okay,

669
00:49:53.440 --> 00:50:00.440
and Oppenheimer was against doing that and
tried to work behind the scenes to not

670
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:07.760
develop the hydrogen bomb and to put
you know, limit the arms race basically.

671
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:13.599
And that's was in the Quiggly book, which was you know, I

672
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:17.480
know quite a lot about the Cold
War, and that was a story he

673
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:23.960
was making really important and significant.
And what the way he described it is

674
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:30.800
that, you know, obviously the
Air Force wanted the development of the hydrogen

675
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:37.440
bomb, and Oppenheimer was aligning himself
with some people in the US Army who

676
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:39.880
actually didn't. They were just assume, well, we can just use these

677
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:45.639
atomic bombs and they're like tactical nuclear
tactical atomic weapons, uh, you know,

678
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:51.320
use artillery or whatnot, and we
don't want or need all these massive

679
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:58.480
hydrogen bomb size explosions, and and
and and it was really the Air Force

680
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:07.079
that was driving that. So this
so they end up creating a scandal and

681
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:12.480
using this issue of communism, to
revoke his security license order to discredit him

682
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:15.639
completely. Well, it would have
been right, Yeah, it would have

683
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:17.880
been useful to undermine a guy who's
saying, look, let's stop and think

684
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:22.360
about this a little bit instead of
escalating the weaponry, because there are some

685
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:25.239
people that would say, look,
what we need now is this is where

686
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:30.599
the phrase the doomsday weapons come into
play, because there were people that said,

687
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:31.480
look, and we can figure out
a way to wipe out a city,

688
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:35.719
why not wipe out a whole country
in one shot. We can always

689
00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:37.920
hold that as a threat, and
we have it, you know, and

690
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.360
we have it even if we don't
have to use it, some people would

691
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.199
say. And then other people would
say, well, maybe we do have

692
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:45.400
to use it. We might have
to wipe some scourge off of the planet,

693
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:50.480
so maybe we'll need it to absolutely
obliterate an entire section of the planet.

694
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:52.639
And some people might have said,
hey, hold up, stop,

695
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:58.159
And those that wanted to benefit from
that, those that wanted that development,

696
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.039
that wanted the bigger bang, so
to speak, would have sought to undermine

697
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:05.920
him, especially if he was publicly
out there saying, look, this is

698
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.800
dangerous, this is a problem.
I mean, if the public wasn't made

699
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:12.719
aware at all. They probably could
have went about their business and developed whatever

700
00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:15.400
they wanted and people would have never
even known that they were supporting the development

701
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:20.199
of bigger and badder bombs, right, and bigger and badder things. And

702
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.719
so his efforts obviously maybe that this
is exactly what happened. They decided to

703
00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:30.400
discredit him. Now that's an interesting
story, not just because of Oppenheimer,

704
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:35.679
but it also shapes a huge portion
of the character of the Cold War and

705
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.519
what is to follow for the next
half a century. Mike right? Or

706
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:45.880
am I wrong? Oh? So
the way I described it to is very

707
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:52.360
detailed in the in the book this
movie is based on. Also, however,

708
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:59.000
I don't you know the people governess
movies' how long was that movie?

709
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:06.119
Two hours or it was it was
close to three. And you know what

710
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:13.199
this issue I just described about motivations
about weapons development as a reason to acts,

711
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:16.519
you know, to do this to
create the scandal. People watching the

712
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:21.639
movie wouldn't know that. I mean, I know enough of the details of

713
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:25.360
the history that I can see a
couple of things that they refer to real

714
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:30.440
briefly, just skip right by the
screen and know that's what they're referring to,

715
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:36.199
but the people watching the movie would
have no clue. The way the

716
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:43.239
way this is presented in the movie
is that it's a personality clash between Oppenheimer

717
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:51.840
and another scientist that you know,
is the main person that gets him off

718
00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:55.400
the you know, creates the scandal. But it doesn't say anything about who

719
00:53:55.400 --> 00:54:00.840
he's allied with, you know,
in any way that any one can understand

720
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:05.079
it well the way the movie head
so, the way the movie presents it

721
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:08.920
is that it's just this very personal
sort of conflict as opposed to yeah,

722
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:13.360
yeah, okay, well but that
makes sense because they might take that one

723
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:16.239
person that they're using there and try
and have them represent so to speak.

724
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:21.320
This is where you take a little
bit of creative license with a movie,

725
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:25.760
right You turn a character into a
composite or a representative of a bunch of

726
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:30.400
other people, and he could be
representing in an artistic way. Uh,

727
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:34.920
the the the pushback against the guy, which makes some sense to me.

728
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.199
Okay, but but if you're watching
this movie and you're not well read in

729
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.079
and you only have a vague understanding, and you're going to this movie to

730
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:44.840
learn something new, what you're telling
me is they're leaving a lot of stuff

731
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:47.599
out. Huh yeah. Yeah.
Another another issue is and you touched on

732
00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:52.800
it already and it's really not touched
on in the movie at all, or

733
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:58.199
I would say a misleading way,
okay, is the question of worth tomic

734
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:04.079
bomb dropping on Japan was even necessary
and the war? Yeah, that's a

735
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:13.679
supposed debate. Now now they accurately
quote Oppenheimer, they do show that there

736
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:19.000
are scientists that developed atomic bomb with
that ract. She didn't want to drop

737
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:23.400
it on Japan. They tried to
get a letter to the I think the

738
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:32.079
Secretary Defense, but uh, Oppenheimer
didn't didn't carry it to him. Well,

739
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:36.360
my understanding is Oppenheimer was on board
with using it, was he?

740
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.559
Or yes, okay, he was
on board for using it. Now his

741
00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:45.559
reason wasn't in the war though.
His actual reason was that if the weapon

742
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:51.159
is used, he thought people would
realize how terrible it would be and then

743
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:53.599
they would never want to use it
again and be scared of it. Yeah.

744
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:57.519
See, that was that was the
double edged thing that was presented.

745
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:00.039
I think Quigley's book presented that idea. The first place I ever saw it

746
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:06.000
is the idea that he had the
concept in hand, they'll see the terror

747
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.840
of this weapon and two things will
result. One people will say, well,

748
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:14.239
we better not do that again one
and two people will say, holy

749
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:19.239
crap, the US has this,
and that would actually ensure that people would

750
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.239
not screw with us, basically because
it's like, hey, look they got

751
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:29.119
that. Well that yeah, that
wasn't Oppenheimer's idea. That was the idea

752
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:36.039
of his mind slipping me now,
one of Truman's closest advisors, whose Secretary

753
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:39.920
of State at the time, that
was his real idea about why to use

754
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:46.079
it was that if we use it
against Japan, that would basically help us

755
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:54.199
shape how the post world will post
war world would be, in particular intimidate

756
00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:02.639
the Soviet Union. It didn't really
work, but that was one of the

757
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:07.039
main motivations for doing it. And
they do have a quote in the movie

758
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:10.400
where someone I don't remember what character, but someone says, this was the

759
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:17.639
first shot in the Cold War,
And that's an argument that I believe now.

760
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:23.480
As far as the idea that it
saved all these lives of American soldiers

761
00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:29.000
who would have had to invade Japan, that's actually that's not touched on in

762
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:34.239
the movie at all I know,
Well, that's weird because that's like the

763
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.880
longest standing, like you know,
historical reality that they've always presented is that

764
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:44.159
in order to prevent a full scale
invasion of Japan, which would have seen

765
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:47.119
a lot of dead servicemen on our
side, this is what was done,

766
00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:52.800
which always seems strange to me.
Once I learned about the fire bombings and

767
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:55.800
I said, wait a minute,
they caused the pot it this way.

768
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:59.880
The movie has one or two sentences
where they say that was the reason that

769
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:04.559
quote a character saying that I think
it was a secretary defense. But in

770
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:12.880
reality that's actually very controversial. For
example, General Lamy, I mean,

771
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:19.440
there's all these quotes of the top
military leaders saying it wasn't necessary. General

772
00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:22.320
LeMay was one of them, using
what you just said. He said,

773
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:28.280
we're just firebomb the whole place anyway. They're they're already defeated. People in

774
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:34.559
the Navy, I think that the
Nimitz made the argument that well, all

775
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:37.400
we gotta do is blockade them.
They're dead, they're they're just defeated,

776
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:43.480
they're all destroyed, and they'll just
eventually surrender. And then the estimates of

777
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:49.639
how many people if we did invade
Japan, how many would die would end

778
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:53.760
up happening? Was the estimates got
ratchet up up, I'm knopping up as

779
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:58.960
years went by, and it was
it's been a long time since I read

780
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:02.039
this stuff. But it was by
the time you and I were kids,

781
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.880
like twenty thousand people or something.
Yeah. But by the time you and

782
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:08.199
I were kids and we saw,
yeah, the original estimates were like twenty

783
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:13.000
thirty thousand people in Japan anyway,
and then the troops, our troops being

784
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.719
lost was another number. But by
the time you and I were kids,

785
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:22.199
our troops was like less than fifty
And then when when Truman retires, he

786
00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:29.400
starts saying it's a hundreds of thousands, half a million, and Jack raises

787
00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:32.159
the number up. So by the
time in our you know, I don't

788
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:36.079
remember what it was like to live, you know, my memories are the

789
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:40.400
eighties, you know, when we
were children, that was just commonly accepted.

790
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:45.079
That was exactly that was commonly accepted. If you and I watched the

791
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:49.760
TV show that described World War two, right, it would always conclude with

792
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:52.079
we used this bomb. Yes it
was terrible, but it had to be

793
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:58.039
done because right, that was like
if you watched the thing on just a

794
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.880
broadcast TV, if you watched PBS, if you read one of those ridiculous

795
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.039
history books, and we were in
school in grade school, even and they

796
01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:07.719
brought up World War Two, they
would always say this, this was necessary

797
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:12.960
so that we didn't have to invade
Japan. Right, That was the whole

798
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.960
thing. That was like the crux
of it. Why did we use nuclear

799
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:21.400
bombs, especially because it became so
scary when we equated it with the missiles

800
01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:23.320
and the arms race that was going
on in the Reagan era. Again,

801
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:27.880
you and I are still kids then, but this was the thing, right,

802
01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:30.000
like, why are we doing this? Oh, well, we need

803
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.960
it because this will prevent other people
from wanting to invade us. We need

804
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.320
to maintain being a superpower in the
world, because right, I mean,

805
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:44.440
that was the whole thing. The
bomb was a key issue. And look,

806
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:45.920
there's a lot of radical ways to
look at it, but it was

807
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:51.400
a given thing. It was like
common knowledge that this was done to save

808
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:53.280
lives. That yes, it was
horrible, but it would have been more

809
01:00:53.400 --> 01:01:00.679
horrible to do it another way.
Which that was just the I'm an idea.

810
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:06.280
I thought, maybe I'm wrong,
What do you think? No,

811
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:10.159
that that that was when we in
nineteen ninety five, I'm looking at the

812
01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:19.920
dates these things took place, but
that was the fiftieth anniversary of Hiroshima Nagasaki,

813
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.000
right yeah, And because I mean, I'm going back to look at

814
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:30.239
these things. And there is this
huge controversy about exhibiting the Noah Gay that

815
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:36.519
was the bomber that dropped it in
Washington see the Smithsonian National Space Museum.

816
01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:45.760
And the debate was whether it was
too harsh of a view of what we

817
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:49.760
did and anyway that this went on. You know, this, this was

818
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:57.559
a big debate just over this exhibit
because they were with this controversy. There's

819
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.880
a book written, i think called
it's called I Got It. I think

820
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:05.360
it's called The Decision to Drop the
Tonk Bomb. But it makes the argument

821
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:12.039
that it's very convincing because again it's
using historical record and quoting all these military

822
01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:19.199
people saying that wasn't necessary, and
just the very existence of the book,

823
01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:27.199
you know, I'm sure was deemed
an American and then so forth. Honestly,

824
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:32.800
I'm not. It's not a thing
I have an emotional tie to one

825
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:38.400
way or the other. I'm just
trying to say that this is a controversial

826
01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:46.000
question, and it's one you know, this Oppenheimer movie completely avoids. Now

827
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:52.000
that all that said, you know, anyone who makes a book or a

828
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:54.199
movie or whatever, you're not gonna
put everything in it. You've got your

829
01:02:54.199 --> 01:03:00.679
own teams that you want to hit
one and you can't possibly for every single

830
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:02.960
aspect. So I'm not I'm not
trying to You're not trying to say,

831
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:07.800
oh, they left us out just
on that basis, But I'm just I

832
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:13.199
could just I just know enough of
the history to say that the movie's not

833
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:20.360
controversial, you know, and probably
purposely not. However, what it accomplishes,

834
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:25.000
and I can tell that from reading
what people of saying about the movie,

835
01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:30.199
including just YouTube comments and people that
have watched it, is that what

836
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:37.239
the movie is done, which is
necessary, is it's helped to make many

837
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:43.719
people who go to the movie and
come out of it to realize that the

838
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:49.280
dangers of nuclear war are real.
And they I mean, I've read these

839
01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:54.079
YouTube comments, they said, people
I'm sure are younger than me, and

840
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:58.599
they come out like they you know, they write like they never even never

841
01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:01.000
considered it a possibility, like they
can never consider it was a problem.

842
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:04.519
Yeah, Yeah, exactly how did
you feel about it? Do you feel

843
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:13.880
as though it adequately just displayed the
dangers and the problems with the nuclear arms?

844
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:15.000
I mean, do you do you
think it made you go, ah,

845
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:17.880
wait a minute, you know,
this is something that we should always

846
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:23.000
consider. I mean, did it
it succeeds in doing that? And that's

847
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.280
why that's one resists. It's it's
a movie. Everyone should really watch it.

848
01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:31.840
It's it definitely, that's really the
message of the movie, and it's

849
01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:36.800
it succeeds at it. And and
that was the you know, it shows

850
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:45.079
it's it's a good movie. But
those risks are well those and they were

851
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.519
nineteen eighty three, I would say, absolutely, And we lived in a

852
01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:53.119
time when people were worried about a
mistake might cause this and that. And

853
01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:56.320
that's exactly I've told the story before. I wrote the letter to President Reagan

854
01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:00.519
about it and got myself an FBI
file opened. You know. But the

855
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:02.559
thing is I was not alone,
and I was, you know, twelve

856
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:06.000
years old at the time. Now
you were slightly younger, but you lived

857
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.800
in that age and you know that
that was one of those realities that was

858
01:05:09.880 --> 01:05:14.039
upon us. And it is strange
that younger people today don't even think about,

859
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.760
you know, nuclear war or nuclear
weapons. Somebody brings it up,

860
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:20.960
and it's like it's almost as foreign
to them as you know, well,

861
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:24.920
we might be worried that, you
know, Darth Vader is going to come

862
01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:28.199
down, you know, like that's
how far removed they are from that reality.

863
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:30.760
They don't even consider it. So
that's true. And if it adequately

864
01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:35.000
makes people question, uh, you
know, whether we have dangerous weapons on

865
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.519
the planet and they could be loosed
for bad reasons and we could end up

866
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:43.400
with a lot of death and destruction
and somebody might want to pull back the

867
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.519
hammer before they drop it. Uh, you know what, I can't object

868
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:50.519
to it. I gotta say I
think that that sort of consideration should always

869
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:56.599
be reintroduced, because, as you
just adequately mentioned, you know, people

870
01:05:56.639 --> 01:05:59.480
will forget if you give them enough
time, they'll forget about it. The

871
01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:02.400
reality of it won't be there,
they won't be considering it. And that's

872
01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:10.079
exactly when the worst things happen when
people assume no sort of interest in something

873
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:14.480
that's dangerous. Isn't that usually when
the dangerous thing rears its ugly had on

874
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:17.440
planet Earth? Or my mistake in
Mike I mean, really, isn't that

875
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:24.000
Usually when the big problem comes along
common sense, if you're not being vigilant

876
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:29.320
about something that's dangerous, that makes
many more opportunities for it to come and

877
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:31.400
take hold or come and take a
bite out of you. So that's something

878
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:34.760
that needs to be remembered. And
if that's what that Oppenheimer movie accomplishes,

879
01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:38.800
not a bad thing. So anyway, Mike, I'm taking you over the

880
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:41.400
hour a little bit. I'm sorry
about that, but I want to give

881
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.639
you a chance to say anything you
want. And closing here, we covered

882
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:47.559
you know, TV and movies in
general, and then this Oppenheimer movie,

883
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:51.519
the history of the Cold War,
the bomb, the questionable stuff about the

884
01:06:51.639 --> 01:06:57.920
use of it in Japan, and
again if you people don't know that Tokyo

885
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:05.280
was a firebomb before Hiroshima Nagasaki happened, and you don't know what that city

886
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:10.639
and another city that were bombed fairly
savagely, which by the way, we

887
01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:15.000
did this in Germany too, where
we fire bombed two cities in Germany as

888
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:17.559
well, just saying, but yeah, if you take a look at that

889
01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:25.079
and you realize that the death,
destruction and damage was actually more intense with

890
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:30.480
these coordinated fire bombings. Okay that
our good friend Curtis LeMay coordinated. Yeah,

891
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:33.119
you might want to get into that
history a little more and get a

892
01:07:33.239 --> 01:07:35.599
get a more of a feel for
it. Now. That's not to say

893
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:41.159
that atomic weapons are not dangerous.
That's not to say that that technology was

894
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:44.960
not dangerous, or that they didn't
even fully know what might happen when those

895
01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:48.079
two experimental pieces were dropped, because
you know, the story I've always understood

896
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:53.320
is that's the only two bombs we
actually had fully developed and ready to fly.

897
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:58.360
But that wouldn't be the case a
couple of decades later, and nowadays

898
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:00.599
we have them all over the place
and people are generally not even thinking about

899
01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:04.800
them any longer. But they still
exist. Once you build these things,

900
01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:09.679
they don't just evaporate, you know. They're not like the glaciers melting.

901
01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:15.039
They're still around and somebody's managing them. And you might want to consider that

902
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:18.880
there are terrible weapons. Plus,
you know all of our friends that have

903
01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:25.119
developed chemical and biological weapons of all
sorts that we're supposed to not be developing,

904
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:28.520
and everything else. There's a lot
of ugly, a lot of terror

905
01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:31.760
that can be released upon the planet
and the people in a matter of seconds

906
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:38.279
if need be. And these things
should all be considered quite well before anybody

907
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:41.880
decides to let them loose. But
Mike, anything you want to say in

908
01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.680
closing tonight, I'll think that pretty
much sums it all up. I just

909
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:51.199
say this movie's worth watching. I
don't really watches because in the movie theater

910
01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:55.840
anymore. I think this is the
first one I've seen in four years,

911
01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:59.880
and the one I saw before that
maybe not want to go for a long

912
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:02.239
They're just as much worth coming out. I got you. And you know

913
01:09:02.279 --> 01:09:05.439
what, I haven't seen much worth
coming out either, because it's a lot

914
01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:10.800
of regurgitated and repeated stuff. And
you know what's funny about that is you

915
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:14.159
might have actually given me the thought
as to why we've seen that for years.

916
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:17.439
Maybe they had these AI programs cutting
out the cookie cutters for the past

917
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:23.159
fifteen twenty years. You know how
more rich people get ahold of stuff before

918
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:26.279
the rest of us. Maybe they've
been using this in Hollywood for a while,

919
01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:28.760
and that's why all they had to
do is feed comic books into it,

920
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:31.520
and it's spit out, you know, ninety comic book scripts, and

921
01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:35.239
therefore they just went with it.
Maybe that's the point, and maybe that's

922
01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:41.960
why everything seems to be a so
formulaic and consistently unoriginal, because it is.

923
01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:45.159
But maybe I'm wrong about that too. I don't know. I'm not

924
01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:47.359
entertained, but I will tell you, Mike, you're gonna have to check

925
01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:50.199
out Strange New Worlds because that's a
Star Trek. I think you'll enjoy.

926
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:55.840
It's not as formulaic as the old
Star Trek, but it's reminiscent like the

927
01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:59.079
very cool and good parts of Star
Trek, even though you had to get

928
01:09:59.079 --> 01:10:01.520
over the cheesy nineteen sixties looking stuff, and you and I could do that

929
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:04.800
in the nineteen seventies when we were
kids because we didn't have a whole lot

930
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:11.800
of better options anyway, right on
TV. But I think you'll enjoy Strange

931
01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:16.279
New Worlds. But we've gotten your
view on Oppenheimer and the AI circumstance and

932
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:19.640
creativity and all that. So there
it is, B and the no go

933
01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:24.159
to Wall Street Window dot com.
Check out what Mike's got over there,

934
01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.960
and sign up for those newsletters because
interesting articles coming out every weekday. Mike,

935
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:30.760
anything else you want to say real
quick before you go out to hollers.

936
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:34.199
Just see you next week. Absolutely, and next week I'll have Mike

937
01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:39.920
Swanson and Larry Hancock with me.
So the Ocelli effect is done for tonight.

938
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:41.720
No matter who you are, where
you are, when you are,

939
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:45.039
I'm merely Ocelli, all of you, or indeed the effect. Good night,