WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. My name is Alejandro Rojas

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and I am here with Martin Spectacular. Willis. Oh that's a spectacular thing

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to say. And at first I
thought you were having some type of attitude,

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but then I realized it was it
was almost like Glee. Yeah,

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it's more gleeish than attitude issue.
It's more of fun silliness, which is

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kind of kind of my thing.
No one really uses the word Glee anymore,

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so yeah, I know, after
the TV show went away, everybody

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kind of shied away from that,
and yeah, that's what it is.

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Yeah, but let's get into it. So this is Open Mind GFO Radio,

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where we cover credible UFO news and
information. We take a journalistic view

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to bring you substantiated information, not
just speculation. We do speculate here and

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there, but you know, unfortunately
most of this field is mostly speculation.

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So I like to bring to you
the hard hitting news what's going on.

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So the first part of the show
is the news. We'll cover the news

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stories of the week. However,
especially with the great guests that we have

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and the interest in the guests that
we have today, you may want to

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skip the first twenty five minutes and
go straight to the interview. That is

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just fine, especially if you know
you're listening to this ten years from now

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and you want to just get to
the interview. That is just fine.

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So you can do that because and
I do say that because some people are

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like, man, they just talked
about the news beginning of when me hear

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from the guests, Well, that's
fine, skip ahead, but I do

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want to take a minute. And
my guest is so important this week,

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and some of you may not know
who he is, but I'm going to

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read his bios, so please,
sorry, Martin, this is going to

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take just a minute, but you'll
understand because he's so important. His name

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is doctor Eric Davis. Why is
he so important? Well, there's probably

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two scientists in particular, I would
say, who are really important right now,

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and that is doctor Davis and his
boss at EarthTech, doctor hal put

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Off. That's because they both work
for this Pentagon program. So we got

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these dirds, these reports essentially that
the Pentagon asked these these scientists to write

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about these you know, projects with
that were actually even though they're technology based,

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these guys have written these things kind
of based on the paranormal and we'll

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get into that in this interview,
but let me read this bio. Eric

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Davis is the Chief Science Officer of
EarthTech International and the Institute for Advanced Studies

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at Austin. Doctor davis research specializations
include breakthrough propulsion physics for interstellar flight,

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interstellar flight science, beamed energy propulsion, advanced space, nuclear power and propulsion,

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directed energy weapons, future and transformformational
technology, general relativitytivity theory, quantum

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field theory, quantum gravity theories,
experimental quantum optics, and SETI search for

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extraterrestrial intelligence. Zeno archaeology. We
actually had someone on to talk about zeno

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archaeology before, but doctor Davis's research
activities include megawatt class laser propulsion, fit

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systems, designing and performance metrics and
mission applications for the US Air Force Laser

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light Craft program. Quantum optics,
tomography, experiments to measure negative vacuum energy,

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studies on the multi layer quantum vacuum
structure and its applications. General relativistic

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time machines and causality, superluminal photons
in curved space, time, gravis stars

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and black holes, and quantum intanglement. Teleportation and non locality studies intraversible wormhole

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and warp drive space times for faster
than light propulsion, and visibilitability studies on

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laser inertial confinement, inertial electrostatic confinement
z pinch, and dense plasma focused fusion

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concepts for space propulsion. Much like
the stuff that you study, right,

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Martin, Yeah, you know you've
lost me way ahead of what was it,

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introvincible wormhole. I think you're way
off there, but I would be

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too. I think you lost me
back at vacuum or something. He currently

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serves as an adjunct professor in the
Early Universe Cosmology and Strings Group at the

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Center for Astrophysics, Space Physics,
and Engineering Research at Baylor University in Waco,

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Texas. He earned his PhD in
astrophysics from the University of Arizona in

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ninety one, the year I graduated
from high school. Doctor Davis is a

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Fellow of the British Interplanetary Society,
Associate Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics

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and Astronautics, and a member of
the New York Academy of Sciences, Directed

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Energy Professional Society, the American astronom
Astronomical Society, and the Association of Former

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Intelligence Officers. Wow. So a
lot of stuff. And the reason I

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bring all this up is because you
can hear this is mainstream science. These

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are credible organizations he's associated with.
But what we're going to be talking about

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is wild and crazy stuff. So
to hear you know, this, this

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wild stuff we're talking to him about
with UFOs and paranormal and and you know,

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voices coming out of nowhere related to
the Skinwalker Ranch paranormal stuff. You

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know, That's why I wanted to
bring up the background. So in an

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interview I did, in fact Martin
with John Alexander. Alexander had talked about

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how Eric Davis was a somehow a
magnet for all the paranormal stuff going on

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at Skinwalker Ranch, and so we
talk about that in this interview. Wow.

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Yeah, I can see the background
like that Holy mackerel. That is

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something else. And I saw that
he had an interest in UFO's way back

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as an old article. I just
read why he was talking about why the

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science community won't take you know,
UFO seriously back in twenty thirteen. But

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he's so he does light travel of
science and research, right, and I

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mean space time, time warping time
travel, all of this sort of stuff.

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So yeah, so when they're talking
about with to the Stars, you

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know who works with Earth Tech and
doctor Davis in developing these technologies, and

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we do discuss this, you know
that they're they're essentially getting some clues about

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how the technology works from just observations
of UFOs. You know, this is

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something they're really doing, that they
really think they can do, and they've

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got these people the right people to
do it right amazing yep. And you

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know, we'll talk to doctor Eric
Davis about this idea because there's this idea

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and I'm sure you've heard it out
there and I'd love to hear your point

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of view that all of this,
you know, to the Stars and this

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Pentagon project, all of this coming
out is part of a disclosure effort where

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the government or some kind of secret
keepers are trying to slowly release information.

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But Aleizando and the others we've talked
to say that's not the case at all.

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And you know, if you follow
the history of how this has all

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happened, you know Tom DeLong does
not work for the government. He did

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this all on his own. He
was able to then entice you know,

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Alexander to join his program, but
Alexander retired. He wasn't planning on getting

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this information out, so he decided
this on his own. Otherwise, guys

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like Eric Davis and Hall Putoff who
have worked on all of this stuff with

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Big Low and the Pentagon, they've
been doing this for literally decades, you

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heard, you know, for decades
they've been working on UFOs and paranormal and

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trying to get the mainstream to pay
attention. So this isn't something new.

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This isn't something where some secret hand
came to them and said, oh,

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we're going to get you to do
this, this and this. No,

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this is something they've been fighting for
for decades and finally they're getting more respect

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and you know, more attention than
ever. And we'll get into that when

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we get into the news, but
we'll talk to doctor Davis about his thoughts

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regarding all that as well. Wow, sounds like a fantastic guest. I

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don't know why he's been off my
radar for my show. I mean,

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I definitely would love to have someone
like that. Yeah, I don't know

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what you're lad. I don't know
either, all right, Yeah, well,

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let's get into the news. How
about it. Well, yeah,

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we had a fantastic week for news, all starting from a political political report.

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Actually happen right after my show.
You text me a link back on

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Tuesday. That's crazy. I know
what both of our shows are on Tuesday,

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and this news came out. You
know, I had uploaded my show,

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and I'm sure your show was already
done, so our shows were wrapped

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up and then boom and then this
news comes out. This came out.

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Let's see, that came out at
right six minutes after my show started.

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I'm looking at the time. Funny. Yeah, that sounds right, because

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I got done doing the news with
you and then I found the story and

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then of course that was all the
rest of my day. Yeah. And

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from this one story, I'll talk
about it in a second, all kinds

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of things have spawned off, you
know, articles, every I guess you

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would call this going viral in a
way. And of course, just the

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just the title alone, you can
see why US Navy drafting new guidelines for

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reporting UFOs. That's the uh political
headline. And you know some people right

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away were arguing, well, uh, they're talking about things unidentified aircraft.

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Uh, you know, not UFOs
has nothing to do with it. I

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saw that argument right away, but
it doesn't it doesn't really say anything that

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makes that explainable one way or the
other. As far as I'm concerned,

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and and many people are. You
know, that's been the basis of a

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lot of uh, you know,
conversations another you know, for instance,

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the Washington Post has written a great
story story about why how angry pilots got

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the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings. I love that one, and so,

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you know, just pick one story. But let's talk about political first.

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I'm wondering, do you since you
have done a lot of research on

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this since it came out, why
why is it them that you know,

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broke the story? And how did
how did? How was it? Then?

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Do you know about that? You
know what? I don't know for

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sure. However, the author Brian
Bender has been interested in this topic for

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a while. So when the December
twenty seventeenth story came out that broke the

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Pentagon UFO program a tips story,
Brian Bender had a story out within the

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hour, so he must have been
working on this. He kind of caught

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onto this as well. However,
you know, I wrote a blog called

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why the Navy taking UFO seriously matters, And in that blog I also linked

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to another story that Brian Bender had
out where soon after the December news had

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come out, he held, because
he's the you know, like space editor

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for Politico, which was kind of
a new thing they were doing, they

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had a bit of a conference with
some of the space people involved with space,

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so they had people from the Committees
for Armed Services or the Committees for

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Science and Space. They also had
some of the National Space Council people available

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at this event, and he asked
a couple of these people, a couple

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of actual House reps that were on
the Space Committee. They said, well,

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and one of the people on the
National Space Council, and he asked

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them, what do you think of
this news lately with the UFOs. And

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actually one of them in the Space
Committee said, you know what, I

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found this really interesting. And I
even went to the head of our committee

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and said, hey, shouldn't we
have hearings on this? So they were

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all taking it all very seriously,
which was I think really eye opening and

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important what he did there. So
he's obviously had like his hand on the

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pulse of what's going on here.
So somehow he got this information first,

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and he you know, it's a
great story because he talks about a tip.

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He talked to Chris Mellon, who's
part of To the Stars. You

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know you've had him on the show, really important person related to all of

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this, and he brought in He
brought the correlations because and in fact,

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let me read the full statement.
I got a copy of the full statement

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from someone who sent it to me
and he has it in a He's done

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pr for different government organizations and was
able to get it. But this is

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from the Deputy Chief Chief of Naval
Operations. The political story had pieces of

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this statement in there, but not
the whole thing. But here is their

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full statement. There have been a
number of reports of unauthorized and or unidentified

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aircraft entering various military controlled ranges and
designated airspace in recent years. For safety

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and security concerns. The Navy and
the US Air Force take these reports very

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seriously and investigate each and every report. As part of this effort, the

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Navy is updating and formalizing the process
by which reports of any such suspected incursions

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can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the Fleet that

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will detail The steps for reporting is
in draft. In response to requests for

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information from congressional members and staff,
Navy officials have provided a series of briefings

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by senior Naval intelligence officials as well
as aviators who reported hazard to aviation safety.

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So of course they say they take
these things seriously. We know from

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the past that they've blown us off, lied to us. To be quite

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frank, I mean, unfortunately,
we can't put it any other way,

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especially when it comes to the Air
Force. I know this, and that's

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the gist of my story is that
you know, I've been writing about this

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and investigating and doing everything for decades
now, and every time you go to

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the Air Force, they say,
sorry, we don't have any interest,

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and they send you to that patent
statement that says, oh, we closed

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our UFO interest back in nineteen sixty
nine at the end of Project Blue Book

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because of the Condon report. So
now that they're you know, in this

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Navy statement, they saying, oh, we take this seriously, and we've

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been investigating these and we know a
tip has but we don't know who else

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has. So this is news to
us because that's, you know, counter

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to what you've been telling us in
the past. So it is interesting,

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but I think it's obvious that you
know, the gist of my story was,

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we know where this comes from.
I mean, Elizondo comes out in

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October with to the Star's announcement.
Some of the people in the media,

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and Leslie Kayan and Ralph Blumenthal deserve
a lot of credit. They saw this

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as important. They were able to
talk to New York Times and doing the

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story that came out in December.
The story became huge. A lot of

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the witnesses related to the Nima's case
that was in the New York Times article

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then started coming out and talking on
all the major news stations. Then you

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know, and I have links to
all these stories in my post here.

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Then we have politicians saying they want
these guys to come talk to them in

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different committees, including like the Senate
Armed Services Committee, and so they do.

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And so we have all of this
going on in the background. And

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finally, those guys must have been
able to really peak the interest of the

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politicians and the others that they talked
to, because this is happening. So

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Tom DeLong posted and he said,
this is a direct result of to the

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Star's Academy and our efforts, and
some people have said I don't see any

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evidence of that, but I think
there's plenty. I mean, I've been

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talking to we've talked about this.
People are like, why isn't two the

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Star is telling us what they're doing, because we're not their audience, you

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know, these are not this isn't
all totally a public facing things. Like

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lou has said, they're trying to
grease the wheels behind the scenes and get

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the people who should be paying attention
and should be releasing information and doing investigations,

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doing the work. And that's where
they've spent a lot of their time

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which we wouldn't see. But here
we're seeing the results of it. Wow.

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So interesting. I'm wondering now if
other you know, armed services will

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follow suit, you know, like
that. Of course, the Navy has

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you know a lot of air power, but you know, the Air Force

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number one, you know, you'd
wonder if they would follow suit on this.

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Yeah, those are great points,
those are really great points, and

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we don't know's It's very interesting.
I think that the Navy should bring up

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the US Air Force maybe because people
might be thinking, well, why is

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the Navy saying this, shouldn't it
be the Air Force. It's talking about

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this, So maybe for that reason. I wouldn't imagine though, that the

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Navy would bring up the Air Force
in this statement without first conversing at some

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level with the Air Force about what
they're doing. So it would make sense,

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I think that we would hear something
from the Air Force soon. Now

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we haven't seen what these these guidelines
are going to be. Some people say,

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oh, they're just going to lock
everything down even worse, and that's

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possible. These guidelines may say you
report your your siding up to command and

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then you're not to speak about,
you know, your sighting at all until

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we've got analysis, and that could
be it. However, I think what

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we have to realize is, like
they said, they take these these sightings

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seriously. And Nick Pope has talked
about this, for instance when the mod

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closed THEIRS, and we've talked about
this even when with the Air Force.

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Even though the Air Force is telling
us we don't care about UFOs, we

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know from documents they do care about
UFOs and they have been investigating them.

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So this is the truth. It's
just this is all the public facing end

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of things, so right, this
is a public statement. So what they're

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saying here essentially is we're now going
to look into this, We're going to

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take these reports, which makes it
incumbent upon them to have some sort of

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public relations regarding all this. And
that's what really this is kind of saying,

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is now we're going to start interacting
with the public a little more about

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this topic. Well, you know, it's always kind of still if you

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really think about it, the denial, because you know who wouldn't you know,

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who would be the number one,
you know, branch of the government

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that would want to make sure the
air is safe, and that would be

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the Air Force, you know,
I'm talking about the US of course,

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But for them to deny it and
like it doesn't mean anything, you know,

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Chicago, the O'Hare incident C seventeen, you know that one in particular,

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like, oh my god, that's
one of the busiest airports in the

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in the world and uh or at
least in the one of the busiest in

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the country. And for there to
be a UFO and then not to have,

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you know, for them not to
worry about it at all, you

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know, it's absolutely silly and doesn't
make any sense. Yeah. So yeah,

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so it's of course they're they're not. I mean, it just it

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never made any sense that they have
no interest because of the safety factors alone,

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basically exactly. And that gets into
one of these stories. So on

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the front page of Open Minds doat
TV, you'll see the original Politico article.

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You'll see my my blog kind of
shaping this for you all, hopefully

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and giving you some more insight and
links into some of the background. We've

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got the one you mentioned, the
Washington posts, the angry pilots, and

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I think that's a big part of
it, you know, these these pilots

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like Commander David Fraverer. I don't
think the Navy wants to disparage these people

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or do like what Nick Pope calls
spinning dirty tricks and kind of you know,

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discount these people favors an important guy, and I you know, I

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think they would rather say, Okay, we're going to listen to your report,

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as opposed to their previous policy,
which was to kind of make fun

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of the reports. But we've got
the Navy wrote something up. They didn't

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really add anything new to it,
but it's interesting. The Navy Times wrote

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about it. But this is the
last one I have here, which is

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from the war zone. Our buddy
Tyler wrote away, and that's a good

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one. It's called what the hell
is going on with the UFOs and Apartment

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of Defense? And he brings up
kind of what you're talking about. Of

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course, they would be idiots not
to be looking into this, and he's

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kind of saying, it's kind of
silly that they said they weren't paying attention

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to, you know, aircraft that
can do things, you know, we

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could see doing incredible maneuvers, and
not to pay attention to them. But

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the other thing that some people have
been a little concerned about is he said

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this very could possible be, you
know, a secret spy plane or drone

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of some sort, and some people
are like, that's impossible. If they

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looked at the SCU report, you
know, the characteristics show that it's beyond

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what we can do. But I
think this is a good sign because he

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also said, we cannot deny that
these craft exists. At these craft,

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they were witnessed by the best of
our best of all of our tech,

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by our F eighteen pilots. This
has to exist. This thing had to

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have done what these pilots said it
did, So what the heck is it

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he's saying, we have to face
the fact that there are these things out

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there. He's saying, now,
it could be a black project. But

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I like it's at least moving the
conversation forward to let's not ignore it because

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of the term UFO, let's take
a serious look and try to figure out

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what this is. And I think
it's he sees more information like that SCU

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report, more background into people like
Eric Davis. He's going to see that

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there's a lot more to this,
and even he realizes. So it's going

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to be fun. Rogueway is a
great journalist too. I don't think he's

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going to shy away from the tough
stuff right right. And one of the

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things, you know, I recently
had a mini debate with someone about the

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TikTok and they said, you know, they were sure that their their statement

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is they were sure that it was
a secret government project. And I said,

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well, you know, it doesn't
It doesn't really, you know,

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make sense that we can have a
craft that would hold together with the g

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forces that this thing was taking.
You know, we just don't have that

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yet. I mean, I can't
see how we could have that right exactly.

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So a couple other stories we're almost
at a time. I can't believe

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it. I know it flies,
but it's such exciting news. A poll

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on the so Noma Index. So
last week we talked about a UFO siding.

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They talked about that must have been
a popular article because now they did

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a poll how many people have sightings, and they had about twenty percent had

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sidings. They also had about thirty
five percent of people say there's no such

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thing as UFOs and it's a bunch
of WHOI but a couple other things.

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A in South Carolina a welcome center
for UFOs. Some guy in Wales took

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a UFO photograph. I typically you'll
notice, have not been including UK tabloids

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because they've got some really terrible stories
lately, real goofball stuff. But I

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did include this one. Joe Wood
because she's pretty famous, and I guess

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she's starting a TV show or a
podcast where she's going to be interviewing other

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stars, including dan Aykroyd, about
UFOs, and she shared some interesting sightings

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there. And then finally, I
do want to talk about this. I'm

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00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:36.319
sorry, that's Ronnie Wood's yeah,
former wife, Okay, I want to

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talk about this one. An interview
with this guy Sean Cahill who's going to

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00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.000
be on the Unidentified show on the
History Channel. And this is from the

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00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.920
Silva Record, so we had Danny
Silva on, so this will be from

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00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.759
the Silver Record. So some cool
stories there. And one last thing,

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00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:55.480
sorry, Martin, I do want
to talk about. Karen did extend the

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code for the International UFO Congress.
So as you're listening to the show,

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00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.200
you might want to go to Ufocongress
dot com get your tickets and for any

323
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:08.400
of the packages, use that code
save fifty and you'll save fifty dollars save

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00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.160
fifty. I'm going to try that
code everywhere. Hey, So that's September

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00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.480
fourth through the eighth coming up,
Yes, September fourth through the eighth.

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Thank you for bringing that up.
And we've got a lot of the speakers

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00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.119
listed, a lot of great stuff
and we have some exciting speakers yet to

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00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.880
be listed, so check that out. But thank you so much for joining

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00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.920
us with the news. Martin.
Oh, it's fun as always. You're

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00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.920
welcome. It's a it's a blast. All right. Well, let's go

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ahead and get into our interview with
doctor Eric Davis. Will be right back

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after this break. I am very
happy to welcome to the show for the

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00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.519
first time, Doctor Eric Davis.
Hello, how are you fine? I'm

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00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.880
doing great. How are you doing? I am doing very well. And

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I guess my first question, because
we have a lot to get into,

336
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is what do you think of this
news coming just recently that the Navy is

337
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:25.240
working up some guidelines on UFO reporting. Well, it's about time, and

338
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the Navy has always led all of
the service branches in many areas, and

339
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.599
this is just another example where they're
head of the curve, whereas the Army

340
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.519
in the Air Force just shy away. For example, the Navy is the

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00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:45.839
leader in directed energy weapons development in
the Department of Defense, so they have

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had the most accelerated schedule for developing
directed energy and deploying it on combat test

343
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vehicles, well, first doing experimental
prototyping and testing and then deploying it on

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a combat vehicle out in the Persian
So they're way ahead of where the Army

345
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:07.240
and Marine Corps and the Air Force
have been, and those services haven't even

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yet fielded any prototypical combat weapons that
can be fielded that have been fielded.

347
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They haven't done that. They're just
doing development and testing and they'll be doing

348
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prototyping inside the United States and they're
just lagging behind. And then with the

349
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UFO subject comes along here, Well, what do you know, it's the

350
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:33.519
Navy that's having all the problems with
the encounters that TIKTOC like UFOs or other

351
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.920
UFOs, and so they're the ones
that are going to take the lead to

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mandate a specific recording reporting protocol for
everybody that has such encounters. And you

353
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.000
think as far as the leadership is
concerned, are they concerned about possible unknown

354
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.119
or do you think that they mostly
feel that these could be foreign adversaries just

355
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:03.039
using technology we don't recognize. Well, the first hypothesis is it's a foreign

356
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:08.240
adversary that we don't recognize. But
then once you do the analysis of the

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00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:17.759
F eighteen fighter FLR videos and radar
from the surface warships like for example,

358
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.680
I'm speaking of the USS Nimics Terrier
Strike Groups encounter with the TIC TAC back

359
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.720
in November two thousand and four,
in the first week, I believe,

360
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for a hope for about a week
of encounters. And when you look at

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visual sightings, timing scope sightings that
were done from on board the ships using

362
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sophisticated observational scopes that they use out
in the ocean, and then of course

363
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the weapons systems radar and aviation radar, and then the fighters have their own

364
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:55.759
systems and so forth. When you
look at when first contact is made,

365
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:03.240
and then how rapidly the object moves
and changes out and hovers over the ocean

366
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:08.319
and zips off again, and it's
changing altitude by dozens of tens of thousands

367
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:14.000
of feet or dozens of times tens
of thousands of feet in a matter of

368
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.200
three to five seconds, you're not
basically talking about human technology. There's no

369
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:23.240
Russian, or Chinese, or North
Korean or Iranian or anybody else knowing,

370
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:29.240
no NATO or any other alliance or
non alliance country, not allied countries have

371
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.759
any sort of technology that can perform
the way these tic TACs were found to

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be performing. And it's really easy
to discern the difference between even an unknown

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man made object and this phenomenon,
because unknown men made objects have to obey

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the laws of aerodynamics and the engineering
that's associated with that. And excuse me,

375
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.720
when the tic TACs don't have any
observable controls, phasis, they don't

376
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:07.160
have any appendites, they don't have
any external engines and engine mounts and pylons.

377
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.000
What am I thinking of? I
can't think of the word that right

378
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:15.640
now, but that's how the engines
are connected up, and so control surfaces

379
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:22.400
are lacking and external propulsion is lacking. Uh, you don't see windows,

380
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and so you know what, what
is this? This isn't anything a drone,

381
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:33.519
even a drone wouldn't look like this. All drones have. All drones

382
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:41.960
have an engine propulsion system which is
very easy and obvious to observe, and

383
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:48.359
their UH and their structural fuselages are
are also very easy to discern and determine

384
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:55.880
when they adhere to the human designs
for aeronautical platforms that move through air.

385
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:03.440
The things we're seeing are not shaped
in the usual typical way that we humans

386
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.400
would shake them. So you you, you got to come up with another

387
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.839
hypothesis, and the only hypothesis is
something unknown, and it's got a good

388
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:18.000
chance that it's not human technology.
So thank you for that. But we'll

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00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.400
get into your background now and kind
of you know, related to this.

390
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.319
Now, you've been doing this and
a lot of your colleagues that you work

391
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:29.400
with, in particular, how put
off. Of course you've been working in

392
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:33.559
this arena for decades, But there
are these ideas out there right now that

393
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:37.079
this is part of some controlled disclosure, that you know, this has all

394
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.319
been planned, and if that was
so, that would mean that you were

395
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.200
part of some bigger plan. I
mean, is that something that you feel

396
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.480
is credible at all? Do you
see that? Or is this just kind

397
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:52.839
of the fruits of your efforts,
all of your efforts to bring kind of

398
00:31:52.880 --> 00:32:00.240
the credibility to these more what would
be considered fringe areas of science. Well,

399
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:06.359
it's two things. It's the cumulative
cumulative effect of all of our efforts,

400
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:10.319
decades of efforts of hard work.
But the release of this information is

401
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:19.839
driven strictly by the phenomenon asself.
All this nonsense about plans, disclosure or

402
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:25.079
confirmation, that's all conspiracy theory nonsense. And it's one of the first order

403
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:30.799
hypotheses that jumps into many people's minds
when they're uninformed about what's going on.

404
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:37.759
The United States government is such a
big and complex organization, multiple organizations,

405
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:43.279
i should say, interconnecting, interlocking, and you know, by by deliberative

406
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:46.759
reasons, parts of it are secret
and other parts are not secret, and

407
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.640
so parts that are secret, don't
talk to the non secret parts, and

408
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.720
even the parts that are secret don't
talk among themselves or within themselves because of

409
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:05.319
compartmentalization or certain or the differences in
classification, many different secrets out. So

410
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:09.559
there is no coordinated anything, because
I have to guarantee you that the United

411
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:15.119
States government is not that coordinated,
especially in the Donald Trump ere anyway.

412
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:21.640
Anyway, this is there's no such
thing as they coordinated or uncoordinated, or

413
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:28.400
planned or unplanned disclosure. That's all
been a salesman pitch that was invented by

414
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.960
a lot of the more vocal,
high profile celebrities in uthology. And that's

415
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:39.319
how they sell their books, that's
how they sell tickets to their special events,

416
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:45.240
and that's how UFO conferences sell tickets
to their conferences when these type of

417
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:51.559
people are invited as guest speakers.
This lies in the in the realm of

418
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:59.200
rational, scientific and bureaucratic thinking.
The UFO phenomenon has been encountering naval weapons

419
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:05.279
platforms repeatedly and has created the dangerous
environment for the pilots, for the human

420
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.119
pilots that are involved. And so
now it's becoming a great safety issue because

421
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:12.360
the numbers or the frequency, well, I should say the numbers in the

422
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.360
frequency of the encounters is pretty big, and it is not minute, it's

423
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.840
not rare, it's not once in
a while, it's more like, yeah,

424
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.320
it's it's pretty often, and it
isn't located and when geography, it's

425
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:28.760
spread across the globe and it's interacting
with the US Navy. So that's been

426
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:35.559
driving their desire to want to do
this new reporting protocol and put it out

427
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:42.119
there, which Political just reported yesterday. So and then as far as what

428
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:45.599
lou el Zander did after he retired
from the DoD IS, he was pretty

429
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:52.079
upset that this program, the aa
W SAP program, and it's not really

430
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:59.280
called the a TIP, aat IP. That's that's the Advanced Geo Space Threat

431
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.960
Identification Program that Harry Reid pulled out
from thin air and made it up on

432
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.159
his own and a letter that he
wrote to Deputy Secretary of Defense William Wynn

433
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:13.920
many years ago. And the actual
program is AAW SAP and I forget Advance

434
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:22.159
Sterio Space Weapons an Application program.
Yeah, that's that's probably so uh,

435
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.840
And it turned out ways I think
this is it kind of goes back to

436
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.159
your communication issue because it turned out. I think what it seems what had

437
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:37.719
happened is Harry Reid was aware that
Lou and his uh the guy running a

438
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:45.360
AAW SAP had been working on a
tip and using the term but that information

439
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:50.559
probably didn't get to you all because
you were hired by and working with AAW

440
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:57.000
SAP. Uh No, it's just
that Harry Reid wasn't fully briefed on everything.

441
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.000
That's how That's how Lou had said
that. That actually Harry, well,

442
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.320
yeah, okay, Well I'm not
going to contradict Lou. Then that's

443
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.639
fine. My view is, yeah, we we were working as subcontractors to

444
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:15.679
big lore O Space Advanced Space Studies, who had the contract to the Defense

445
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.039
Intelligence Agency, and so uh yeah, our worldview was a A W S

446
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.719
A P and then all of a
sudden we see a T I P pomp

447
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:27.760
up. Okay, So I'm not
going to contradict Lou. He knows more

448
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.480
about it at that level. I
didn't sit in his office and hear all

449
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:34.920
this jargon go flashing by. I'm
down. I'm one of the worker bees

450
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:40.400
who are expediting the mission. And
anyway, so no, there's no,

451
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:46.639
there's no, there's no conspiracy the
theory, there's no uh uh, there's

452
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:52.960
no long you know, it's like
the long awaited return to Jesus. Well,

453
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:57.159
everybody's had the long weighted disclosure and
it's like, no, this isn't

454
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:04.000
it. Uh Well, and I
were. However, However, officially the

455
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.119
United States Government of via the d
D of course, I'll reverse it.

456
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.320
The DoD has issued and official confirmation. So that's what they've done. They've

457
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.920
officially confirmed it. Now they have
done disclosure. What they've disclosed is,

458
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.000
hey, they have had encounters with
unusual craft that they cannot identify as human

459
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:29.199
made or unknown human made craft.
In other words, they don't the objects

460
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:35.280
don't follow the aerodynamic rules of engineering. Okay, they just don't, okay,

461
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:38.639
And that's driven by physics. And
they are not saying that they're breaking

462
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:43.239
laws of physics. So don't quote
me on anything having to do with well,

463
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.920
they're operating on a new physics we
have an invented or no, they're

464
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:50.679
breaking laws of physics. It is
possible they're operating on the physics we haven't

465
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.920
invented or haven't discovered yet. That's
possible. We don't know. So anyway,

466
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:02.239
the point is is that that these
things are operating, they go way

467
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:09.039
outside the envelope of our engineering and
physics technologies. And and I can guarantee

468
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:13.639
you that no laws and physics are
broken whatsoever. It's just that it's either

469
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:20.320
the existing laws that we have that
we haven't extrapolated it further enough, further

470
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:27.440
enough, or expanded it enough into
realms or areas of phase space where we

471
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:34.559
could discover new solutions to these existing
physical laws which would give us advanced propulsion

472
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.679
and power that would produce this type
of technology. Once you have an engineering

473
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:43.880
and a manufacturing technology to create these
things. So that's where we're at.

474
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.880
And these things don't look like anything
that we can manufacture on Earth, so

475
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:52.440
we don't have the manufacturing or industrial
technology for it. We don't have an

476
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.400
engineering for it. In other words, the blueprints and designs to get something

477
00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:01.840
shaped like shape like an air a
fighter sized piece of candy mount bent and

478
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:07.599
get that to fly through the air
stably and and do the wonderful things that

479
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:13.119
they do in the years reported by
the f A teen pilots of the associated

480
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:16.239
with the Nimus Carrier Strike Group right. And then of course, and then

481
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.800
we have the history offa of UFO
encounters that we've seen all you know,

482
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:23.679
we know about it. You know, Jacques Eilie has recorded all this in

483
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:31.719
his books Alan Heinek, Jacques Ailie, and Bob Emmenegger and his book associated

484
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:37.239
with his TV documentary UFOs it has
begun or UFO's past president in future which

485
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.360
you know, two different versions because
one was an updated version of the other,

486
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:49.840
and so all the other well known
UFO researchers in academia, industry and

487
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:55.360
government who had done all the investigations
and identified as many witness descriptions of UFOs.

488
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:59.599
When you look at these things,
which were really well exemplified in the

489
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:05.920
skimm artwork shown in Bob Emmeneger's book
from nineteen seventy four, it's clear that

490
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.760
these things have different shapes that are
not an aerodynamic They just don't follow the

491
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:19.840
human engineering physics principles for aviation or
aeronautical or renal space flight. I do

492
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.119
want to get into a few looking
at things. Yeah, and I think

493
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.440
that you've shown that well. And
I do appreciate you answering the question about

494
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.920
the you know, disclosure conspiracy.
And I am even a little embarrassed to

495
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.519
ask because I do not see that
present when looking into and researching any of

496
00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.880
this, I see a history,
a rich history of you all working on

497
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.840
this for years. But you know, it's something that comes up and readers

498
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.360
wanted to know. But I want
to get into your background and that history.

499
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:50.239
So when was it that you began
working on I'm not sure what you

500
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.719
refer to it, but kind of
what is considered kind of fringe science.

501
00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:00.119
I don't call it fringe science ull
it. I call it out of the

502
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:07.559
back science. French has a negative
connotation. It's not exactly an accurate word

503
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:12.119
to use. We just call it
out of the box, cutting out part

504
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:16.960
of that breakthrough, breakthrough science,
et cetera. I became the world I

505
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:24.039
became among the world's first few full
time paid professional scientists who were investigating UFOs

506
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:29.679
when I got hired by Bob Bigelow
to work at the National Institute for Discovery

507
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:34.320
Science in July of nineteen ninety six, and then I went to work for

508
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:38.480
him in Las Vegas, and then
I was joined by Colin Kelleher and doctor

509
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:44.800
who's got a PhD in bio chemistry, molecular biology, and knowology, and

510
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:51.800
he's got quite a background in immunology
and diseases mostly virology and cancers. So

511
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.880
and then we were joined by doctor
George Ohnette, who is the world famous,

512
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:06.280
world renowned Romanian veterinary pathologists who specialized
in avian and bovine diseases. And

513
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:12.880
we joined together with Colonel John Alexander
who has a PhD in pantatology and he

514
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.119
studies theft and he was interested in, you know, survival of consciouness after

515
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:20.960
death, and he was working for
Bob Bigelow at the time on the NID

516
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.840
staff, and so we all came
together and of course John had been working

517
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:30.079
for Bob for some time before we
got hired. The three of us got

518
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:35.639
hired in July of nineteen ninety six, and all of our work were good

519
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:40.760
chunk of our work was well recorded
and documented in Kelliher and Napp's book Hunt

520
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:47.519
for the skin Walker, which you're
familiar with, so especially our workout on

521
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:54.719
the nids Ufo Ranch up in northeast
Utah in the Utah Valley, and so

522
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:58.960
that documents a good chunk of what
we did at NI. It's not everything,

523
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.559
because that was about that book was
about the ranch, and we did

524
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:07.079
a lot more than just the Ranch. We often used the Ranch and Las

525
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:14.440
Vegas as are headquarters to go investigate
cattle mutilations and uf dotal and crypto terrestrial

526
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:20.800
sightings, and so it's just whereever
it was convenient. The Ranch is really

527
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:25.960
nice because it's closer to the upper
upper western side of the Midwest, and

528
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.159
Las Vegas is in the really you
know, closer to California. So we're

529
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:32.800
in the Pacific Coast area in Las
Vegas, so we can reach quite a

530
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:36.920
bit of places from there, but
we're still kind of far removed from the

531
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.960
from the actual Midwestern the East coast
areas. So it's just that Big Low

532
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.239
didn't want to expand NDS any further
than Las Vegas, and so we just

533
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:51.000
had those two jumping off bases from
which we could do investigations. So we

534
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.960
mainly stayed regional within that area.
And we had a one hundred number line

535
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.360
that was set up in the FAA
collaboration that was set up so that if

536
00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:04.400
anybody called UFO reports, they could
call her a hundred number and we could

537
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.920
do a preliminary interview with the call
or take information to make a decision on

538
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:14.960
whether it was necessary to send investigators
out to investigate their sighting and whatnot.

539
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.360
So anyway, I did that for
six years until my job got eliminated during

540
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:24.519
a downsizing of MIDS because of the
emergence of Big Loospace. Bob Bob Bigelow

541
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:31.280
was shifting his attention away from UFOs
because he kind of had about a five

542
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:38.440
year attention span on these types of
things and he figured we'd have all the

543
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:44.920
problems solved by then, and that's
not possible. There's a lot of scientific

544
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:52.039
problems, especially in phenomenology, which
can take more than a decade of research

545
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:59.000
and study and investigations, collecting data
and analyzing it and forming and reforming or

546
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:05.760
changing high until you finally converge on
the hypothesis or the theory that is doing

547
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:12.039
very well to explain all the data
and so well, I was just going

548
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.840
to wrap it up. So I
was there, and then I went to

549
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:19.280
work for the Air Force Research Lab
as a contractor to the Advanced Concepts Program

550
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:27.559
Office at Edward's Air Force Base,
California, and I did that from actually

551
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.599
I started working for them before my
job got eliminated, So from January until

552
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.159
mid two thousand and five, I
was working for them. But I started

553
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:39.880
working for how I put off as
a research physicist in November of two thousand

554
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:45.039
and four, and I've been working
for However since then. And I got

555
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:49.719
promoted up a few years ago up
to chief Science Officers, so well,

556
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.920
I became senior research physicists among the
other staff. Of the other physicists we

557
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:00.159
had who had been here about six
years early than I have, six years

558
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:06.719
longer than I have. Howe was
also on the staff as as as the

559
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.039
director of the Institute for vand Studies
at Austin, So he was the director

560
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:13.880
who's also a research physics sistant's own
right course, which you probably know.

561
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:16.880
And so there were three of us
physicists on the staff, and then we

562
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:22.199
had a couple of lab engineers who
would put our experiments together, and then

563
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.039
other support personnel and and so I
just rose up through the ranks and became

564
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.920
the chief science officer, which is
where I'm at now now in that history,

565
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:36.400
when you talked about Skinwalker, for
instance, I've talked with Colm and

566
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.639
with Alexander, and I guess the
first question we would be they both kind

567
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:45.480
of had this view that they were
outsmarted by the phenomenon. In fact,

568
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:51.480
you know, Alexander uses his term
kind of a precognitive sensiate phenomena. Would

569
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:58.199
you agree with that kind of that
estimation or thought, Yeah, that's pretty

570
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.679
much true. That's pretty much true. Yea. I was always one step

571
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.920
ahead of us, and John talked
about one person in particular that the phenomenon

572
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.199
seemed to center around, and from
what I gathered, that might have been

573
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:15.079
you. Is that true? Yeah, pretty much. But Colin Keller her

574
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:20.320
had witness and events, so I
wasn't the only one that had all of

575
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.480
the experiences. I had many experiences, and some of those I had with

576
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:30.599
Column. But then there were experiences
that Colin and I did not have because

577
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:35.159
we got to a point to where
we needed to rotate staff on and off

578
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.519
the risk because Colin and I were
fathers of very small children, very young

579
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:43.000
children in school back in those days, and so you know, we need

580
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.760
to stay home a lot more.
Otherwise our wives would get angry if we're

581
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.679
gone. Tu Lo. So George
Unette was relatively single. I mean,

582
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:52.159
he was still married and his kids
were grown, and his wife was working

583
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:58.119
as a professional scientist in another state
where they originally lived before he came to

584
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.639
Las Vegas. So he didn't have
any family duties in Vegas, so we

585
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:09.679
had him, and then we had
Canadian field investigator Chad Beacon, and we

586
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:15.440
didn't have Shelley Wadsworth involved with us
directly. She was indirectly involved because she

587
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:19.199
worked for Bob Bigelow as one of
his field investigators, and so she would

588
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.920
be more like a conduit of information, but she would do background stuff for

589
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:28.360
us or bring it to information our
direction and we'd act on it. So

590
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.079
we had Shelley Wadsworth, Chad Deacon, but of the people that went to

591
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:36.719
the ranch, it was basically call
him George, myself, Chad, and

592
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:42.480
the former ranch owner. And after
he left and moved away with his family

593
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:47.920
to another state, we got the
retired chief deputy of the Uinta County Sheriff's

594
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:52.639
Department to take over the former ranch
manager's job and he became the new ranch

595
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:59.639
manager and his work for us also
included him doing some investigations in the area

596
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.400
for US, so he became an
investigator as well. And then later on

597
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.519
down the road and its hired a
couple more investigators. We had John Valier,

598
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:09.800
who was a retired FBI special agent, and then Roger Pinson who was

599
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:15.440
retired from the San Diego Police Department, who had worked for the Nevada State

600
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:20.480
Law Enforcement. I can't remember which
it was. It was having to do

601
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:23.880
with the transportation police on the highways. I'm not sure if it was.

602
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:27.880
I don't know that he was a
highway patrol officer, but he was in

603
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.280
that capacity and then he left that
job and came to work for Rest as

604
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:37.239
a full time investigator. Roger,
before becoming a police officer, was actually

605
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:42.920
at the FOSSi. He was a
special agent with ALFOSI, so he's an

606
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:46.039
expert investigator like John Vlair. So
we had quite a bit of staff and

607
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:50.519
we were investigating a lot of UFO
cases. Not everything was on the ranch,

608
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:53.840
so we had periods of quiescence on
the ranch. So there were always

609
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:58.800
upcycles down cycles where there was where
the activity would get hot or it would

610
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:02.760
just get cold. And then it
reached the point by about two thousand it

611
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:07.400
started getting cold right and stayed cold
through two thousand and one, and by

612
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.960
early two thousand and two that's when
Bob decided to start Ashley. Starting in

613
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:17.239
two thousand, Bob started cutting personnel
because that's when the branch the phenomenon started

614
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:22.320
getting cold, too cold that it
didn't justify having all the all that staff.

615
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:28.639
Also, we didn't have that many
outside ufons cases called into our winning

616
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:30.599
you know the number, so we
didn't have a lot coming in, and

617
00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:35.679
the Essaya wasn't reported a lot to
us either, So it just got very

618
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:38.519
slow. And Bob is very frugal
about his money, so he's, you

619
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:42.119
know, he wants to cut back. He's building that earl space company up

620
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.280
and he needs me to do that
with So we had to cut our budget

621
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:47.480
to come up with more money every
time. So by two thousand and one,

622
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:51.679
two thousand and two, John Alexander
and Pete pick up an Eye,

623
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:57.199
and I think Chad Deacon and Shelley
Wisworth we all had lost our positions.

624
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:00.320
So and Jed, Shelley and Chad
weren't full time, so I got to

625
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:07.280
be clear that they were only paid
when they had an assignment, and so

626
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:12.880
they were like ten ninety nine employees. But Colin, George and John Alexander

627
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:16.559
and I were all full time employees
of NIBS, and John Alexander also lost

628
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:20.920
his job at the same time I
did in the spring, in the late

629
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:27.960
winter of I should say an early
two thousand and two, which was still

630
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.800
the winner, and then my job
actually terminated in the spring because I had

631
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:37.079
some unused vacation and sickly that I
could use up before actually was off the

632
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.880
payroll. So all right, we're
gonna take away quick break and then we're

633
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:44.400
going to come back because I have
a lot of questions about some of the

634
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:46.800
stuff that you've gone over, and
you're just a wealth of information which is

635
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:52.119
so helpful. But we'll be right
back after this short musical interlude, or

636
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:57.039
if you're listening on a station,
a commercial break with doctor Eric Davis,

637
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:20.960
So stay tuned. Welcome back to
Open Minds CUFO Radio. I am.

638
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:23.800
I have the pleasure of speaking for
the first time with doctor Eric Davis,

639
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:29.599
and you've gone over a lot of
really interesting information when it comes to the

640
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:34.159
UFO reporting. In two thousand and
nine, you know, Bass Big Loads

641
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:38.519
Advanced Aerospace Group had a partnership with
mof ON and I was actually the PR

642
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:42.400
guy, so I was coming up
with like the press releases for all of

643
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:45.840
this stuff. But now in hindsight, you know, I kind of scratched

644
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:49.039
my head and I think, wow, I was part of that program,

645
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:52.159
but did that reprogram receive some of
those A tip fundings. Do you know

646
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:58.599
did it? I didn't get that
question. Can you repeat it please?

647
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:06.079
Did the move on fast relationship partnership? Was that funding from asapp or a

648
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:12.920
tip? I believe so it would
make sense than anything that was nothing I

649
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:17.239
had any roland. So my recollection
is that I believe that that's the moufin

650
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:23.239
funding. What did them out of
that? So another question is related and

651
00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:28.000
I want to ask more about some
of this. But so Kick Green and

652
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.320
Gary Nolan are both kind of working
on these projects, kind of identify people

653
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:37.679
who experienced paranormal phenomena or even with
have remote viewing skills. Can we identify

654
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:42.360
in their DNA or parts of their
brains that make them more capable of these

655
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:46.199
things or more susceptible to experiences?
Have they come to you and taken samples

656
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:52.480
from you? There's a part of
that question that last Can you repeat that

657
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.239
last part of that question? So
have they you skipped out? Have you

658
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:02.639
been part of that experiment? Oh? No, I was a test subject.

659
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:07.239
In other words, I contributed blood. But no, I'm not a

660
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:09.880
part of that because I'm not a
medical guy. That's that's well, and

661
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:13.400
that's that was the sense I meant
that, were you kind of a test

662
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:17.920
subject because you had these experiences at
Skinwalker? And I guess were you ever

663
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:28.199
frightened? Did you feel threatened?
Me? Not really? What was carrowing

664
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.480
experience? I guess that you had, I know, was that experience?

665
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:36.360
Go ahead? I never really had
a harrowing experience. I think the dark

666
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:42.760
shadow experience was pretty star. I
would say startling experiences that. Yeah,

667
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.480
the dark shadow and the ball of
light that came before, the orb that

668
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:50.840
came before it, and then the
shooting incident that we had at a separate

669
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:52.119
time. No, I'm not aware
of that one. I don't think.

670
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:55.079
I don't remember it. Oh that
was in the book. Yeah, that's

671
00:54:55.119 --> 00:55:02.679
the one in the book where Jesus. That's over twenty years ago. Basically,

672
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:06.199
we were out in the field at
night. I think we were having

673
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.960
to do something to deal with the
pregnant cow that was giving birth and the

674
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:15.239
herd was getting a restless. So
the ranch manager thought, well, you

675
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.639
know, there might be a big
cat lurking around, and they usually like

676
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:23.840
to lurk when the cows are most
vulnerable because they're giving birth. So he

677
00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:28.159
was kind of concerned, and we
had to go look outside to find out.

678
00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:30.360
We had to get in his pickup
and go drive around to find out

679
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:32.480
if there was any big cats out
there, and then take a look at

680
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:37.039
what the cows are doing and find
out about that pregnant count. I believe

681
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.000
that was the case, about the
pregnant count. I may be wrong about

682
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:42.519
that, but that's what I thought. That's what I'm thinking in my mind,

683
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.639
is I thought we were worried about
a pregnant cow. Right. In

684
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:49.920
other words, I do know that
we were worried about the cows overall being

685
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:54.119
stirred up by something. And so
we're in the near We're in the near

686
00:55:54.199 --> 00:56:00.119
pasture, closest to the range to
the to the manufactured home that had installed

687
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:04.960
for the staff to live, and
we call that the observation house, and

688
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:07.400
right next door to that is the
house where the previous owners lived. And

689
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:13.760
so anyway, so we were out
that night. I don't remember now what

690
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:15.920
time in the night it was.
It was a kind of late, it

691
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:19.000
was definitely dark. I remember what
time of the year it was warm.

692
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:22.239
It could have been spring or fall. You know, I'm not that good

693
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:24.519
about boat bying issues. I think
it might have been the spring, because

694
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.000
if one of being born, I'll
probably be born in the spring or a

695
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:34.159
late winter. But it was in
warm season. So I'm we're driving around

696
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:37.800
in the near field, near pasture, and there's a certain tree on a

697
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:43.320
corner where the scent where the bob
wire fence makes a ninety degree turn from

698
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:50.000
going west to going north, I
believe, and I may have my directions

699
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.639
turned around, so but nevertheless,
it's a corner tree. It's a big

700
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:59.159
Russian olive tree, and I think
this is you know, it may have

701
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:01.760
been the beginning, because I remember
there were no leaves in the tree yet,

702
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:05.519
so it might have been the end
of winter beginning the spring. But

703
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:09.559
it was still, you know,
not cold. So I noticed two really

704
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:14.519
large, growing yellow eyes. They
looked like the eyes of a big cat,

705
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:16.760
the predator cat. The only problem
is they were too big, they

706
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:21.000
were too far apart, and they
were up near the top of the tree

707
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:24.679
man you know, in the in
the in the main bulk of the branches,

708
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:29.199
but close to the top, somewhere
in the top one third of it.

709
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:31.639
And they're just blinking, and I'm
thinking, what the hell is that.

710
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:36.360
I've never seen a cat that bigger, with eyes that white and big,

711
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:42.039
and I'm thinking, now, that's
no cat. So so I called,

712
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:44.719
you know, Colin Kelleher was with
me, and so was the ranch

713
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.000
manager. So I called their attention
to it, and they saw it.

714
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:51.599
And then the ranch manager thought,
oh my god, that's the cat.

715
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:53.239
You know, he immediately jumped to
conclusions it was a cat. He had

716
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:59.360
his rifle and in his spotlight with
him. So we drove toward it.

717
00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:05.159
And what I remember is that the
light the eyes disappeared and it looked like

718
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.920
something fell from the tree and hit
the ground. And then I didn't see

719
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:12.280
anything after that. It's it's just
like the eyes closed up up in the

720
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:17.400
tree and it might have and I
thought something was falling and hit the ground,

721
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:21.199
and I didn't see anything run away, But there's nothing there. So

722
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.400
we parked the pick up in front
of the raft. To the left of

723
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:28.760
that, in front of the fence, and behind the fence is all this

724
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:31.920
thick foliage, I mean, Russian
olives and all kinds of other trees and

725
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:36.639
shrubs and bushes out there, overgrown
grass and whatnot. And now that I

726
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.079
think about it, yes, it
was near the end of winter. It

727
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:42.280
was it was wintertime. As a
matter of fact, now that I think

728
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.559
about, it wasn't really that warm, and I remember because we had snow

729
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.159
on the ground in piece not it
wasn't snow covered. It was just patches

730
00:58:50.199 --> 00:58:53.480
of snow that was left over from
an earlier snow, and the ground had

731
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:59.119
warm depth enough that a lot of
it melted off and only cool part only

732
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:02.159
parts of it that were in the
shade all the time were the only patches

733
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.519
that stayed intact, but slowly molding
away as the temperatures were warming up.

734
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:10.400
So I think we were in this
winter spring transition. So uh So,

735
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:15.239
anyway, we parked the truck.
Terry got out with this rifle and handed

736
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:20.119
me the spotlight. I got out
and he told me to aim the spotlight.

737
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:22.119
We're looking along the fence line and
the trees to look for this animal

738
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:24.920
because he's worried. It's a big
cat and he's got to shoot it.

739
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:30.760
Problem. We didn't see the thing
with the glowing big eyes, but we

740
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:36.480
saw something whose body profile we saw
right in front of us on the other

741
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.199
side of the wire. You couldn't
see the rear end, you couldn't see

742
00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:43.559
the front. You just saw the
middle of this body that looked fairly big.

743
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:47.679
To me, it looked like a
big cow, but to Terry,

744
00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:52.039
it looked like a bear. And
we were at point blank range from it.

745
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:54.679
So he just shot some fire.
He just fired some shots at it.

746
00:59:55.119 --> 01:00:00.480
It didn't flinge, and it just
walked off into the shrubs and we

747
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:04.760
couldn't see the hind end of this
thing. So we yeah, So all

748
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:07.239
three of us got our way through
the barbed wire. We had to splat

749
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:09.400
the bob wire park to get through. We got in and there's a clearing

750
01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:14.519
behind all the shrubs and trees,
and we followed the clearing, thinking well,

751
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:16.840
that's the only place is going to
go. And there's no footprints in

752
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.320
the ground, on the ground at
all, nothing, there's no blood,

753
01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:24.039
there's no broken twigs or anything.
Then we finally ran into the little patches

754
01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:28.599
of snow, and in the patches
of snow, there's no footprints and no

755
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:34.360
blood drops or trails of lots of
blood that you would expect from an animal

756
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:40.039
that's been shot several times, and
nothing except one single deer hook print,

757
01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:44.840
just one single deer hookprint, not
two, not three, not four,

758
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.960
just one. And it was pointed
back in the direction of the pickup not

759
01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:51.880
in the direction that we would expect
if it was running away from us.

760
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:54.400
So that was odd. And we
didn't see any other footprints. And I

761
01:00:54.440 --> 01:01:00.639
mean, this ground is a bit
muddy from the snow melt, and and

762
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:05.199
so and this is and this print
was on the patch of snow. So

763
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.559
anyway, we gave up because we
looked all around, we couldn't find anything.

764
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:14.840
So we reported it to Bob Bigelwell
later on and the next the next

765
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:20.800
morning, Bob got his master hunter
tracker who's the ranch manager for his private

766
01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:23.280
ranch. And I won't say what
state that is. He I think he

767
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:29.719
manages Bob's personal vacation ranch in another
state. And Bob flew him in on

768
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:35.079
his jet to our ranch and actually
went to the airport at Vernal, Utah,

769
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.840
and you have to drive twenty three
miles to get to to get the

770
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:44.440
forts to shame. So that guy
showed up and he's an expert hunter tracker.

771
01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:47.719
So he started working in a five
mile radius starting from the shooting spot

772
01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:52.639
and just tracked that thing everywhere.
He just could not find a single sign

773
01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:59.119
of a large animal that had been
shot multiple times, and no carcass,

774
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:04.679
no nothing, noo, no footprint, no hoootprints or yeah, no hood

775
01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:07.760
prints is what you would expect.
So that was the That was the one

776
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:12.519
experience, and then I had a
couple of crazy experiences. Actually went in

777
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:15.480
the same just two separate buildings.
It's the second home. It's the homestead,

778
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:21.400
the crumbled down nineteenth century homestead where
I had the dark shadow incident and

779
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:27.039
the orbit incident. Would Colin Kelliger
and I went into those homes doing some

780
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:32.639
field readings with the radiation guide encounter
and the and the trifield meter, looking

781
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:40.360
at the field situation electric, magnetic
and radio and whatnot, and then and

782
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:45.199
then looking at the nuclear radiation.
And of course it's nothing out there as

783
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:49.280
quiet, and I stepped into one
of the homesteads and I got attacked and

784
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:52.440
what looked like bats to me is
are swirling around like they were angry,

785
01:02:53.159 --> 01:02:58.760
and I just ran out of there. I would say, yeah, I

786
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:01.760
got frightened, but that that was
so I kind of have to backtrack in

787
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:07.079
my earlier statement that I had.
You know, I was you know,

788
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:10.800
the experience I'd previously described, well, I didn't consider to be frightening,

789
01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:16.280
but this frightened me because I got
my heart rate going, and I had

790
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:19.360
to run out of there because I
didn't know what to do, because I

791
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:22.519
got what I thought, We're back
swirling around. Well, that happened a

792
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:27.639
second time, and I don't remember
now whether it was the same incident or

793
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.920
whether I went in a separate time, a separate day and had the same

794
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:35.079
thing within the second house. There's
two little old houses next door to each

795
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:37.000
other, and so I went into
the second one, had the same experience,

796
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:43.719
and these are taking place in the
living room areas and what I upon

797
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:46.519
reporting it to call and we go
back in another the next day. Take

798
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:52.280
a look when we got full sunshine. And I think this happened late afternoon,

799
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:54.960
early evening, so I don't have
full sunshine going on. And I

800
01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:59.119
think actually they were they were just
after dusk. Gosh, now that I

801
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:03.760
remember the vents words staff or dusk. So we found a sparrow nest up

802
01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:08.320
on the corners of the wall and
the ceiling, more than one. There

803
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:13.679
were several sparrow nests, and sparrows
used mud. They take in mud in

804
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:15.920
their beaks, and I don't know
if they actually swallow it. They probably

805
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:20.760
swallow it and then they regurgitated to
make these little mud huts up in the

806
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:25.800
wall in the cornerary to protect their
eggs. And that's what they were.

807
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:28.599
They weren't backs. They were sparrows, and they scared the trap out of

808
01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:35.719
mere. Yeah, but you know, we attribute that. Actually, if

809
01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:40.880
you want to look at another scientific
basis holistically, you don't want to say

810
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:44.840
I just walked in and scared the
shit out of a few sparrows, mother

811
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.480
sparrows that were protecting their eggs.
What it could have been is that,

812
01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:51.599
yeah, they were there, and
I think the common denominator would be,

813
01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:54.760
yeah, that's what I did.
I scared them, so they decided to

814
01:04:54.760 --> 01:05:00.880
go on the attack by flying around
me. The problem is is that it

815
01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:05.159
may have actually been a part of
the phenomenon that I would have stepped into

816
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:09.840
there and gotten attacked. Now,
I wasn't disturbing This is the funny thing.

817
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:12.920
I wasn't disturbing anything. I did
not poke those things. I did

818
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:15.760
see them, I didn't poke them. I wasn't making noise. I was

819
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:20.400
actually walking around quietly and just using
the meters, taking a look at stuff.

820
01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:25.159
And all of a sudden, these
black things, these winging black things

821
01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:30.920
that I thought were bath were just
rushing my head in circles. And I

822
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.239
just don't know. I just John
Ala Xander has a has a good background

823
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:39.320
Colin Keller, who does in that
than I do on explaining that part of

824
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:42.719
that part of the event. But
that would be and Colin has written about

825
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.159
it in the sense that he can
come up with an explanation that it was

826
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:49.840
the phenomenon, It was the act
of the phenomenon that that had happened to

827
01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:54.840
me, and me only whereas other
people have been in those two houses and

828
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.679
never had that problem like I did, and it seemed that that problem only

829
01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:03.639
had followed me twice. So do
you feel that I had another? I

830
01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:05.599
was just going to ask you,
do you do you feel that you were

831
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:09.559
a magnet for the phenomena? And
if so, do you know why do

832
01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:14.159
you have any ideas well? That's
the hypothesis we have on people like abductees

833
01:06:14.440 --> 01:06:19.280
or people who are not abductees but
have uh more than the usual statistical probability

834
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:24.679
of close encounter experiences of the worst
or the of the mediocre, of the

835
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:29.760
or of the worst kind uh people, you're you you can actually psychically act

836
01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:33.840
as an antenna for the phenomenon and
it turns out that the studies that Kit

837
01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:40.280
Green and Gary Nolan have done along
with columself, is that they have discovered

838
01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:45.679
that the bio well, uh,
they're not physicists. I can put it

839
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:48.480
in the terms of biophysics. I'll
just say the biology or the bioimmunology or

840
01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:54.719
the bioscience of the immune system is
that your immune system, which I don't

841
01:06:54.760 --> 01:06:59.239
know how many of Americans people know
this or aware of it, depending upon

842
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:02.920
their degree of that you cation,
uh, is that your immune system is

843
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:08.320
a separate organ in your body.
It's not just a system of chemicals.

844
01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:13.679
Your immune system is an organ and
it regenerates itself like some of your other

845
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:19.320
organs. And also it's super sensitive
and genetically. Gary Norman and Tom Kellner

846
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:25.840
discovered that the immune system records every
single event that has ever happened in your

847
01:07:25.880 --> 01:07:29.800
life. So it's like the Library
of Congress that every that records everything that

848
01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:32.199
occurred since the day you were born, probably even before you were born.

849
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:38.360
And one of the things that records
are the insults that your body has taken

850
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:44.719
due to environmental exposure or injuries or
diseases, and it keeps a perfect record

851
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.159
of that stuff and so they hypothesize
that you know, this is this is

852
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:53.519
really greater. It's it's acting like
a brain, and it's responding like a

853
01:07:53.559 --> 01:07:58.599
brain in a in a psychic way. So although it's tied into your you

854
01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.039
know, your real brain, but
it does behave as if it has its

855
01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:04.360
own line. So anyway, their
hypothesis is and I don't remember all the

856
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:08.039
discussions that we've had on this because
that was many, many years ago,

857
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:13.440
but the gist of what I know
is that the immune system works like an

858
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:17.279
antenna. It absorbs everything in the
environment around you, and that might be

859
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:21.319
the reason why the phenomenon is interested
in you, because there might if it

860
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:26.920
may know that you've got some genetic
pre disposition that is interested in the most.

861
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:30.039
And that's what Gary and Kit's work
is all about, is why are

862
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:38.640
certain people highly sensitive to being this, having this genetic disposition to phenomenon encounters?

863
01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:45.239
And then they go into the caut
eight containment studies using fMRI scans and

864
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:49.039
whatnot, and so you know the
rest of that story. So it seems

865
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:53.720
that there are people that are more
sensitive than others. And it is just

866
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:57.960
as an industrade old fashioned brain psychic
sense, you might need to throw the

867
01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:01.319
immune system into it, because the
immune system does behave like an antenna that

868
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:08.439
sex and information records it and it's
got knowledge and it may be communicating in

869
01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:11.720
its own way that we you know, we haven't fully discovered everything that it

870
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:15.520
does to my understanding, and so
it's still understudy. And genetics is very

871
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:19.439
complicated. Genetics is not straightforward,
and it's not linear. It's a very

872
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:27.880
non linear, nons straightforward, a
very counterintuitive thing that produces life in this

873
01:09:28.039 --> 01:09:31.359
you know, at least on this
planet, and as far as we know

874
01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:34.279
where there's still much more to be
learned. We haven't learned all there is

875
01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:38.439
to know about it or to find
out about it. We're still making those

876
01:09:38.439 --> 01:09:42.079
discoveries. So the same goes to
the immune system, because the immune system

877
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:45.960
is a function of genetics. Of
course. So when you refer to abduction,

878
01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:53.239
do you believe that people actually are
being taken physically taken by extraterrestrials.

879
01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:58.279
I don't think they're being taken by
extraterrestrials. We don't have proof that they're

880
01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:01.079
extraterrestrials. We know that whatever it
is is not human. Now there is

881
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:10.079
the hypothesis that they've been abducted by
a covert, clandestine, rogue, non

882
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:17.560
state operation that looks at people of
specific backgrounds with specific predisposition. Maybe it's

883
01:10:17.560 --> 01:10:21.800
a genetic thing too, and they
get abducted because they're being tested or examined

884
01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:28.399
or there's a purpose involved with that. That's a hypothesis I've been I've heard

885
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:32.159
among my colleagues, and the standard
hypothesis that comes from John Mack and David

886
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:40.880
Jacobson and Bud Hopkins work has all
been the extraterrestrial hypothesis that UFOs are from

887
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:44.479
another planet. They're coming down,
They're going to pick a few humans off

888
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:49.920
the ground to evaluate them, just
like you. Just like a cattle rancher

889
01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:56.159
who's breeding specific breed of black angus
or specific breed of Charlotte's cattle, wants

890
01:10:56.199 --> 01:11:00.000
to walk randomly into the pen or
into the pasture, now a particular cow,

891
01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:04.079
take it back. And like the
former ranch manager, the original owner

892
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:09.159
of the ranch at the time that
we in our era, the one who

893
01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:13.560
reported all of his family's problems with
that phenomenon and ended up working for Bob

894
01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:17.479
Bigelow when they left the ranch.
What he was was he was a college

895
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:28.720
educated very sophisticated animal husbandry expert,
and wasn't just his skill running a ranch

896
01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:31.640
raising cattle. It was his skill
in that he was able to do cross

897
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:38.279
breeding and hybridization breeding using the techniques
he learned in college. And that was

898
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:44.880
he could transplant embryos. He knew
all the process and procedures for developing bovine

899
01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:47.159
embryos and transplanting them in order to
get the best breed of cattle with the

900
01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:53.199
best meat quality for a market.
So he was that sophisticated. So he's

901
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:56.520
going to wander into the ranch and
just grab you know, this, this

902
01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:00.640
female there, that female there,
and take them into the to the labor

903
01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:05.159
or whatever. Yet at the ranch, that served as a spot for examining

904
01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:10.800
his cattle, his two cows,
his breeding cows. So you know that's

905
01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:14.399
that's similar in a way, it's
almost a similar function. The other thing

906
01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:19.119
I caution in your listeners is don't
assume that you can apply human ways of

907
01:12:19.159 --> 01:12:27.479
thinking about these things, because although
there's a metaphorical analogy to it, the

908
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.520
fact is is that anything that's non
human necessarily will not think like a human

909
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:36.079
because of the way they evolved,
the way their senses developed and the way

910
01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:46.520
senses right information into whatever neurological complex
neurological cognitive system organ in the in their

911
01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:51.319
bodies which we would call a brain. So they're not going to have the

912
01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:58.000
same ways or methods and frame of
mind and processes to think and rationalize the

913
01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:01.279
way humans do because of the environment
they came from. So we can't assume

914
01:13:01.319 --> 01:13:04.399
that. Now, if you're thinking
they're a row covert operation of some sort,

915
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:10.640
whether military or non state actors,
sure they're going to behave like humans

916
01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:14.680
do. They're going to operate like
humans do. But if you're going to

917
01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:19.039
take the hypothesis that this isn't human, then don't overlay human thinking and human

918
01:13:19.159 --> 01:13:24.159
framework or human frame of mind,
i should say, and human theories and

919
01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:29.680
human explanations and speculations on what they're
doing, because what they're doing, you

920
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:32.479
do not know. They haven't communicated
that to us. We have no idea

921
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:38.680
what that's about. We can speculate
endusly, so right, and that's a

922
01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:42.159
hard time. We're very cautious about
that. To hard part with speculation,

923
01:13:42.279 --> 01:13:45.159
especially with science, we don't know
what we don't know, and typically the

924
01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:48.239
answers are things we can't even speculate
because we don't know. Yeah, we

925
01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:51.079
know, we don't know one thing. They're there, they're doing something.

926
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:55.800
We don't know their origin because they
don't want to communicate that to us.

927
01:13:56.119 --> 01:14:00.039
Right, What about the crashes are
like, there's there's been some references.

928
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:04.039
I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to
alleged UFO crashes, but I think you've

929
01:14:04.039 --> 01:14:09.640
made some comments, maybe some others
would that have worked with a typic of

930
01:14:09.640 --> 01:14:13.279
make comments that there may be a
program to look into that, or there

931
01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:18.239
there may have been crashes you all
feel, Yeah, there have been crashes.

932
01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:25.239
The superpowers on the Earth have had
their share of crashes, and they

933
01:14:25.279 --> 01:14:30.000
have recovered the vehicles from their crashes. So that's why Shaku Lee and I

934
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:33.880
agree that even though these things behave
like a conscious, spiritual, psychic entity,

935
01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:39.399
they do have an advanced technology.
They have hardware, and there's a

936
01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:44.560
craft, and there's occupants or euphonots
that he calls them that Shaklee calls them

937
01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:48.720
euphonats. So there's euphonots running these
craft whatever they may be. And he

938
01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:55.600
likes to make an analogy of these
of these beings to the little people or

939
01:14:55.640 --> 01:15:01.399
the fairies of Europe and Ireland and
h Magonia. Remember that the passport can

940
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:05.359
go into one of his books and
that kind of thing, So that's fair

941
01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:15.800
enough. So anyway, so yeah, they have that technology. We do

942
01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:21.640
too, And it's a very super
sensitive topic because it's it's something that your

943
01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:27.000
listeners are probably going to be shocked
at. Probably less than one one thousand

944
01:15:27.079 --> 01:15:31.319
to one one hundred thousand of the
United States military and the government overall doesn't

945
01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:35.319
even know about it, or so
I got. I said that contradictory,

946
01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:41.039
I said, probably a minute fraction, a like, less than one one

947
01:15:41.079 --> 01:15:45.720
thousandth or one one hundred thousandth of
the people with the UH need to know,

948
01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:50.560
access, need to know, authorization
and security clearances to be involved with

949
01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:55.520
that type of work are the only
ones that know. The vast majority of

950
01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:58.600
the rest of the government really doesn't
know. And that's why one hand,

951
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.079
like the right hand doesn't know what
the left hand is doing virtually because of

952
01:16:01.159 --> 01:16:06.399
the stove piping that goes on in
compartmentalized programs, and you just can't knock

953
01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:11.399
on doors and say hey, here's
who I am. I've got you know,

954
01:16:11.439 --> 01:16:14.439
I don't have I've got clearances,
but not the right ones I don't

955
01:16:14.439 --> 01:16:15.800
have the need to know, but
I want to know, so can you

956
01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:18.520
tell me? And you're going to
be lied to because that's that's the rule.

957
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:21.920
You don't want to tell the enemy
anything. And this guy who's knocking

958
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:27.239
on your door asking you about UFO
crashes could be an asset for the Soviet

959
01:16:27.319 --> 01:16:33.000
Union or the Russian Federation or the
Chinese PLA or the mancome poops over and

960
01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:39.039
ran in North Korea and so forth. So you know, even if it's

961
01:16:39.039 --> 01:16:41.840
an American, you still don't want
to answer that question because you don't know

962
01:16:42.439 --> 01:16:45.479
who they are and you're not supposed
to be revealing that information. So it

963
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:49.079
takes a lot of hard tracking and
digging. You have to networking, and

964
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:54.359
it can take years and years and
years, and then you develop the security

965
01:16:54.359 --> 01:17:00.640
clearances and the authorization for need to
know that appropriately out appropriately allowed you access

966
01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:03.840
to that information. Then you find
out, hey, yeah, it's there,

967
01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:09.119
it's true. On the other hand, sometimes the information does come out

968
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:13.239
on its own, but it doesn't
come out in the way that Upology yet

969
01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:17.600
likes to fantasize about it. It
comes out only to specific people who have

970
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:23.359
specific talents and skills, who have
security cleerices. They may not have to

971
01:17:23.399 --> 01:17:26.279
need to know, but they could
have to need to know if they were

972
01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:31.399
presented with that requirement or if they
were presented by a crash recreeaval program and

973
01:17:31.399 --> 01:17:39.199
saying, hey, I want to
bring in gentleman XYZ. He's got the

974
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:41.399
security clearics, but he doesn't have
the need to know. I want to

975
01:17:41.399 --> 01:17:45.359
give him the need to know because
I need his talent to help us solve

976
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:48.720
this problem with the crash recrievble reverse
engineering studies. So then they will do

977
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:53.560
that other times. That's the official
way of doing it. That's how you

978
01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:59.439
officially get brought in. The other
unofficial way is again you build a level

979
01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:04.840
of trust on certain individuals and people
within the network who, after a few

980
01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:08.479
years of knowing them, you work
with them. They know who you are,

981
01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:12.720
they know what you're capable of,
they know your competencies, and they

982
01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:16.039
want to bring the topic up on
an informal basis with you. Sometimes not

983
01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:19.880
even on an informal basis, they
may want to bring the topic up outside

984
01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:24.960
the realm of the security apparatus,
but within a skiff. In other words,

985
01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:30.239
there's going to be no passing of
security clearances to establish that I am

986
01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:33.199
going to be allowed to be read
in on the crash recruitval program. But

987
01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:38.159
they'll bring me into a skiff and
want to talk informally in the skiff about

988
01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:41.960
it and say, well, this
is what we can tell you. That

989
01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:44.920
there's things that we can't tell you, and we can tell you those things

990
01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:48.119
if you can get the next level
of security and authorisation to get the need

991
01:18:48.159 --> 01:18:51.439
to know and then we can do
business with you. But before we get

992
01:18:51.479 --> 01:18:56.960
to that point, here's what we
can tell you without having to cross that

993
01:18:57.119 --> 01:19:02.239
red line of the need to know
and the property. So so you work

994
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:05.800
this stuff out over a number of
years, you built networks and you find

995
01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:09.479
the right people, and then you
know, you don't do it by knocking

996
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:13.840
on doors. You do it just
through the happenstance of having a contract with

997
01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:17.239
somebody or a subcontract and you're interfacing
with them, and then lo and behold,

998
01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:19.680
you find out they're the vice president
or the president of one of the

999
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:25.640
legacy alo space corporations and they happen
to be a PhD of some sort of

1000
01:19:25.640 --> 01:19:28.760
there, you know, some discipline, their own a stem discipline, all

1001
01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:30.560
on their own court. And it
just so happens if they were a guy

1002
01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:33.920
that worked on the crash recreeval program. All lo and behold, and then

1003
01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:38.439
they find out that you're working in
the UFOs. You're on the UFO subject

1004
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.600
for a government up woor a dood
program. And let's say, well,

1005
01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:46.520
that's wonderful. You're officially a government
contractor or a subcontractor and you're working with

1006
01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:49.800
another alspace company. Okay, Well, let's well and you're working on UFOs.

1007
01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:53.600
Well, guess what, we did
it too, and we don't do

1008
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:55.800
it now, but we did it
in the past. And here's what we

1009
01:19:56.960 --> 01:20:00.399
here's what we can tell you off
the record, and here's what we can

1010
01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:03.159
here. And you'll have to go
another step before we can tell you what

1011
01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:05.960
it is on the record. But
it has to be through that. Again,

1012
01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:09.920
you have to have the right clearances, you have to have the authorisation

1013
01:20:10.640 --> 01:20:13.119
for the need to know, and
then you can get the full story.

1014
01:20:13.239 --> 01:20:17.199
So it's a very complex process.
It just the way Steep Greer went about

1015
01:20:17.199 --> 01:20:23.680
it for his disclosure program that was
called the shotgun approach. The shotgun approach

1016
01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:28.279
moves. He was putting himself out
there during the nineteen nineties saying, talking

1017
01:20:28.279 --> 01:20:31.439
about crash appreevals, and I won't
go through his whole story. I'm sure

1018
01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:34.359
you've already covered it or other people
have covered it. But one thing led

1019
01:20:34.359 --> 01:20:43.239
to another, and he was like
a farm magnet tracking all these retirees from

1020
01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:47.560
various parts of the government US military
who had some knowledge about the UFO subject

1021
01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:53.720
and the crash appreeval subject in particular, and a big majority of them were

1022
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:57.000
crackpots, they were phonies. But
there was a small number of them that

1023
01:20:57.039 --> 01:21:00.720
were the real deal. And so
he successfully picked up up a very small

1024
01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:05.039
number of them and got some information. And uh, now as to the

1025
01:21:05.119 --> 01:21:11.039
veracity and quality of that information,
and that's another story, but he did

1026
01:21:11.079 --> 01:21:14.640
get some interesting information. Okay,
so can you share with us who you

1027
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:18.800
think the deal? Could you share
with us who you think might have been

1028
01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:21.520
the real deal out of his witnesses? No, no, no, no.

1029
01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:30.359
What I mean is the information the
information was not was was uh was

1030
01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.000
verifiable. In other words, once
people looked into it, they said,

1031
01:21:33.079 --> 01:21:36.920
yeah, this is realistic. Whereas
a good chunk a good chunk of his

1032
01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:42.119
disclosure witnesses, you know, you
had middle of the road guys. They

1033
01:21:42.119 --> 01:21:45.439
had some information, but it was
too prierful. It was just antidotal,

1034
01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:49.159
and then you had the guys that
were real liars. He's got a chunk

1035
01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:54.680
of liars out there that real that
he I don't know how much effort he

1036
01:21:54.760 --> 01:21:57.439
spent on vetting any of those people. And I'm not going to name names

1037
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:00.079
as to who they are, and
it's not important because that doesn't because the

1038
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:04.560
fact that they have no real information
means it's noise. We're dealing with signal.

1039
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:09.600
We're interested in signaling science, folks, not the noise. Chuck the

1040
01:22:09.640 --> 01:22:15.199
noise. So so he did have
a small signal of people that had verifiable

1041
01:22:15.279 --> 01:22:19.800
information, and unfortunately, that's,
like I said, it's the shotgun approach.

1042
01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:24.960
They came forward, they gave him
information that was freely given to him,

1043
01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:27.479
but it was after the fact.
It was nothing that could be acted

1044
01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:32.680
on. The people that gave him
information were They weren't directly involved with the

1045
01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:39.319
with crash reprieval at all. They
actually were either peripheral or they heard it

1046
01:22:39.319 --> 01:22:44.520
from somebody reliable. So the vertical
information was high quality, but they were

1047
01:22:44.520 --> 01:22:49.119
not first hand people, you know
what I mean, people with firsthand knowledge

1048
01:22:49.479 --> 01:22:56.039
or firsthand exposure to this whole subject. So he got pretty close, but

1049
01:22:56.119 --> 01:22:59.039
that's the shotgun approach. That's where
you're going to shoot the shotgun. Your

1050
01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:01.319
poets are going to hit all over
the wall, and there's going to be

1051
01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:04.800
a small part of the wall where
the pelts hit the right targets and all

1052
01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:09.239
the rest of the pellets pretty much
only just a few pellets hit the right

1053
01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:13.920
targets and all the rest of the
pelants just randomly hit a bunch of bad

1054
01:23:13.960 --> 01:23:16.520
targets. Well, the hard part
is that the target's invisible. We don't

1055
01:23:16.520 --> 01:23:23.560
know. Yeah, spread it right
of chock and spray, but we don't

1056
01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:27.560
know where the target is. Yeah. So here's the thing that you should

1057
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:32.840
know is that the crash aprieval program
is very small program. It is not

1058
01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:42.279
a massive, huge government infrastructure.
It's a very poorly funded program, and

1059
01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:46.520
it hasn't actually probably hasn't had any
money for a while. I do know

1060
01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:50.079
that the program was terminated in nineteen
eighty nine for a lack of progress in

1061
01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:54.640
reverse engineering anything that they had,
any of the hardware that they had,

1062
01:23:55.079 --> 01:24:00.479
and don't resurrect it every maybe so
often, so many years by, and

1063
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:03.199
they'll try it again, and if
I just don't succeed, the departmentalization and

1064
01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:08.640
kill it. Scientists cannot communicate with
other scientists to get help. It's like

1065
01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:15.479
I'm doing this this first semester differential
calculus homework problem. I'm doing the rocket

1066
01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:19.760
equation and I am stuck on the
boundary condition so I can come up with

1067
01:24:19.800 --> 01:24:25.520
the right solution that gives me the
right answer to the propellant mask blow rate.

1068
01:24:26.079 --> 01:24:28.199
And I'm having a hard time.
So what do I gotta do.

1069
01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:30.279
I'm missing something. I just don't
know what I'm supposed to do with this

1070
01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:34.199
and to be able to solve this
differential equation. So I got to call

1071
01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:38.800
my buddy who's in my class.
He see the math with and he's the

1072
01:24:38.800 --> 01:24:40.960
one that gets straight a. So
I'm gonna call him on the phone and

1073
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:42.880
say, help me with this.
This is what I got done, and

1074
01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:45.920
this is what I'm stuck on,
and he'll explain it to me. Well,

1075
01:24:45.920 --> 01:24:48.880
if you're in the crash retrievalent program, or any black program for that

1076
01:24:48.920 --> 01:24:54.319
matter, and you come up with
the roadblock, a technical roadblock, you

1077
01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:58.520
can't call your best buddy or any
expert that you don't know and just call

1078
01:24:58.600 --> 01:25:00.880
him cold and say, hey,
this is who I am, this is

1079
01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:03.840
what I'm doing. This is what
I'm working on. I'm stuck. What

1080
01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:09.039
do you suggest I do to get
past this roadblock? You can't do that,

1081
01:25:09.199 --> 01:25:13.119
Yeah, it's any Nick Pope had
talked about the same problem when they

1082
01:25:13.119 --> 01:25:16.479
did the Condine report. They genuinely
had some intelligence people who wanted to look

1083
01:25:16.479 --> 01:25:21.560
into the issue, but they had
no access. They couldn't talk to anybody

1084
01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:26.000
who had They weren't cleared for all
of these things they wanted to write about,

1085
01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:30.039
so they just had to speculate.
Yeah. So, and this isn't

1086
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:33.720
just unique to the Crash approval program. This type of problem is unique to

1087
01:25:33.760 --> 01:25:40.479
all of the black programs that the
DoD HASDHS has them, the Military Services

1088
01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:45.239
service branches has them, but Department
of Energy has their own versions. And

1089
01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:49.880
you know, you you the purpose
of a black program with a special access

1090
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:56.680
program security REP is you've got to
limit the information and exposure to the information

1091
01:25:56.840 --> 01:26:01.760
to as few people as possible in
order to produce the map security protection against

1092
01:26:02.239 --> 01:26:08.279
espionage by the enemy. And so
that limits who you can work with that

1093
01:26:08.279 --> 01:26:11.199
that also is cleared to know,
That limits the amount of experts that you

1094
01:26:11.279 --> 01:26:14.359
can have working with you. And
gosh, you know, if you're If

1095
01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:18.000
your small group of experts are stunked, you're screwed because you basically can't call

1096
01:26:18.279 --> 01:26:23.920
your buddies or somebody you know,
or somebody you know of who's an expert

1097
01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:27.800
better than you, or you know
a bigger expert on the subject at a

1098
01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:30.399
university either near you or at a
university across the country. You can't call

1099
01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:34.439
those guys. You can't even read
them in because you're not supposed to acknowledge

1100
01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:38.239
some of these black most of these
black programs, you're not supposed to be

1101
01:26:38.279 --> 01:26:43.399
acknowledged. So you know, for
that basis that you don't legitimately exist.

1102
01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:48.800
So you can't tip tip off the
university expert that there's a program by calling

1103
01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:51.880
him and saying I'm stuck on something. You just can't do it. If

1104
01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:57.960
it's really dire and it's the problem
that really the expertise is desperately needed outside

1105
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:02.079
of the cleared group, then the
program manager and the security officer will will

1106
01:27:02.119 --> 01:27:08.880
write a justification to go reach out
to the university expert and read them in

1107
01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:12.359
on the program, and they'll have
to be given security clearances and sign the

1108
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:15.520
NBA. You'll fill out the s
F eighty six and all those forums and

1109
01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:19.479
get the DD two fifty four filled
out, and then they'll be told,

1110
01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:24.000
you know, you you die with
this information. You can never talk about

1111
01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:30.279
it until after you die, until
after you it did. So that's how

1112
01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:33.439
that works. And it happens in
cruise missile programs. It happens mostly programs

1113
01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:40.279
involving covert clandestine operations, and they're
logistics. It happens with nuclear weapons development

1114
01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:45.920
and deployment, it happens with intelligence
operations, and it happens with technology development.

1115
01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:49.000
And the interesting thing is is today
there's a big move away from special

1116
01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:55.880
acts of programs. They're extremely costly
to maintain, extremely costly. Let me

1117
01:27:55.920 --> 01:28:00.039
tell you this. To cost to
maintain information, personnel, of physical security

1118
01:28:00.079 --> 01:28:05.600
for a special actions program can be
tens of times larger than the cost of

1119
01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:10.560
the program itself. So let's say
the program is building the B twenty one

1120
01:28:10.600 --> 01:28:14.760
bomber. Right, Let's just assume, let's say for the sake of argument,

1121
01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:19.520
the Farmer project is fifty billion dollars
total. That's probably not even reasonable,

1122
01:28:19.960 --> 01:28:24.399
but I'll just say that forgure,
the security for that is going to

1123
01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:26.920
be could be as much as ten
times higher. I mean, it could

1124
01:28:26.960 --> 01:28:29.479
be stretched out over a number of
years, of course, not all at

1125
01:28:29.479 --> 01:28:32.000
once, so it could be as
much as ten time hires because you've got

1126
01:28:32.000 --> 01:28:35.920
to maintain all kinds of security.
Now that's the typothetical. That's amazing.

1127
01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:42.159
So we're pretty much out. Okay, Yeah, so I want to ask

1128
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:45.960
you one last question, and it
has to do with the technology development like

1129
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:49.239
you had just mentioned. But essentially, you know the goal. I think

1130
01:28:49.239 --> 01:28:54.520
it's been your goal and house goal
and it's to the Star's goal is to

1131
01:28:54.680 --> 01:29:00.720
actually use what you've learned from the
observation of the phenomena to develop a technology.

1132
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:04.079
Do you think that's possible and is
that possible in the near time.

1133
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:14.119
It's hard to predict. It's really
hard to predict. It probably is long

1134
01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:17.479
term, not near turn more,
some of these projects that were like,

1135
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:21.560
for example, that's what the thirty
eight papers that the DEIA wanted in their

1136
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:28.720
tasking through Bigger Earlspace Advanced based Studies
contract was to take the physics that physics

1137
01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:33.640
and engineering of of twenty nine and
twenty ten extrapolated to twenty fifty. Are

1138
01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:38.720
we going to be able to have
the physics and engineering and a technology industrial

1139
01:29:38.760 --> 01:29:45.119
base that'll produce a vehicle that'll match
the tic TACs by twenty fifty, because

1140
01:29:45.159 --> 01:29:47.880
what if the tic TACs decide all
of a sudden to turn against us,

1141
01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:54.319
and they use their advanced weaponry whatever
they have, and start hurting people,

1142
01:29:54.399 --> 01:29:57.039
start destroying things. I mean,
we haven't seen that happen, but we've

1143
01:29:57.039 --> 01:30:01.880
seen hints of that during Bluebook's investigation. The Northern Tiers stack encounters with the

1144
01:30:01.880 --> 01:30:08.319
giant UFOs that shut down their warhead
navigation systems, and that happened multiple times.

1145
01:30:08.359 --> 01:30:10.800
That happened in the late sixties,
and happened in the mid seventies,

1146
01:30:11.319 --> 01:30:15.520
and so and so we know that
they're quite quite capable of rendering our nuclear

1147
01:30:16.079 --> 01:30:20.880
warheads and ICBMs useless, which is
pretty dangerous because if the Soviet Union had

1148
01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:25.760
decided to launch a war right then
and there, just coincidentally, the damn

1149
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:30.399
UFOs had rendered it impossible for us
to do a counter strike because our goddamn

1150
01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:34.840
ICBMs up in the Northern Tier were
shut down. So that's an example of

1151
01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:39.199
when it gets bad. And then
there's Kolaris. Kolaris is an example where

1152
01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:45.119
the box shaped UFOs that think called
Schoupas were actually killing some people and injuring

1153
01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:49.119
large numbers of people, and they
were using beams to do it. And

1154
01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:55.159
I'm sure you're familiar with the Kolaira's
case from the nineteen SEVENTIESICIC it was and

1155
01:30:56.079 --> 01:30:59.800
what that was, Project Plate.
That's what the Brazilians called Project Plate.

1156
01:30:59.840 --> 01:31:03.479
I've leaf, so the Brazilian Air
Force. So so that's you know,

1157
01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:09.920
the UFOs have not been benevolent.
They have not shown any brother leaf you

1158
01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:14.359
know, space, brother we love
and peace type movements towards us. It's

1159
01:31:14.399 --> 01:31:16.840
all been just hide and seek,
hide and seek. We use stealth as

1160
01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:20.159
much as possible so that humans don't
see us in the environment. And then

1161
01:31:20.199 --> 01:31:24.520
when we want to expose ourselves,
we expose ourselves, do our little fun

1162
01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:27.760
games and then take off and they
may be testing our technology. You may

1163
01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.600
be testing in the US Navy's capabilities
when they do this. And also they've

1164
01:31:31.600 --> 01:31:34.840
done it with the Air Force too, so you know, what are they

1165
01:31:34.880 --> 01:31:38.399
doing it for. Well, again, they're not humans, so they don't

1166
01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:42.520
think like humans. Right, They're
doing it for whatever. In case they

1167
01:31:42.560 --> 01:31:46.600
decide to become aggressive, we're screwed. Basically, we don't have aircraft that

1168
01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:50.920
can match them. We you know, we haven't shoed at them those you

1169
01:31:50.920 --> 01:31:59.000
know, the NEMUS was out on
a on a certification training to get certified

1170
01:31:59.039 --> 01:32:02.880
to go deploy the Persian Gulf in
November two thousand and four, and so

1171
01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:06.880
for the certification training, they just
have their fighters taken off the carrier deck

1172
01:32:06.920 --> 01:32:12.359
of nimics and flying around doing maneuvers. But they're not armed because they're not

1173
01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:14.920
supposed to be. You know,
you don't want them shooting at your at

1174
01:32:14.920 --> 01:32:17.800
their fellow planes. It's not a
red I think they might have had Red

1175
01:32:17.800 --> 01:32:21.399
Team blute things going on. Yeah, they might have just been doing routine.

1176
01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:27.680
Yeah, so, but you can't
have light ammunition right when they want

1177
01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:30.720
to do bombing and stray thing.
They do that out at the Nevada Air

1178
01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:36.239
Force Weapons Testing Range near the test
site, and that's where they can do

1179
01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:40.720
all the straying and bombing they want
with by wardenates. But when you're over

1180
01:32:40.760 --> 01:32:45.000
the ocean and you're near ships and
you've got your buddies in the air and

1181
01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:47.479
a Red Team bluteam cut configuration,
you don't want to you can't have live

1182
01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:51.000
wardness. They had no way of
shooting them down. They were asked if

1183
01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:55.399
they were armed, so they could
attempt to shoot one down or just least

1184
01:32:55.640 --> 01:33:00.279
send off the missile or fire some
guns to kind of scare the UFO into

1185
01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:02.399
responding, and they, you know, the pilot said, no, we're

1186
01:33:02.439 --> 01:33:05.399
not armed, we don't have anything. They couldn't shootn't done. So that

1187
01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:10.720
was a test that could not be
performed to determine whether you could shoot one

1188
01:33:10.760 --> 01:33:15.000
down. So so we just don't
know, but you got to worry about

1189
01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.920
it. That's what intelligence and military
doctrine are all about. It's about planning

1190
01:33:17.920 --> 01:33:23.800
for potentialities, and we have to
worry about something more advanced could be overwhelming

1191
01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:27.039
our military technology. And so we've
got to be able to extrapolate to twenty

1192
01:33:27.119 --> 01:33:30.039
fifty. Will our physics be there, will our engineering be there, Will

1193
01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:34.640
our industrial manufacturing technology be there to
produce tic TAC type technologies? And on

1194
01:33:34.680 --> 01:33:38.159
the flip side of that, boy, that would be wonderful if we could

1195
01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:42.840
get there, because commercially, it
would revolutionize transportation and energy on the earth,

1196
01:33:43.319 --> 01:33:45.560
you know, for all countries.
So our GTSA is looking to benefit

1197
01:33:45.640 --> 01:33:48.680
you know, that's a public benefit
corporation, so they're looking to benefit the

1198
01:33:48.720 --> 01:33:53.159
public with this. We're not looking
at making weapons. The military needs to

1199
01:33:53.199 --> 01:33:58.880
look at making the weapons and that's
why we had the thirty eight papers exactly,

1200
01:33:59.159 --> 01:34:00.920
so that it was a lot of
help. That was a lot of

1201
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:04.399
information. Thank you so much.
It's great that you talked Beast because there's

1202
01:34:04.479 --> 01:34:09.560
a lot of information to convey.
But it was an absolute pleasure to have

1203
01:34:09.640 --> 01:34:13.039
you on and I hope we can
have you on again one day. Oh

1204
01:34:13.119 --> 01:34:15.039
you're welcome, and thank you very
much. And I enjoyed helping you out

1205
01:34:15.039 --> 01:34:19.520
with your show. We were reconnecting
the future. Thank you so much for

1206
01:34:19.720 --> 01:34:25.880
Eric Davis coming on the show.
Really important to have him at this moment

1207
01:34:25.960 --> 01:34:29.960
in time because of all this exciting
stuff going on. And he's a key

1208
01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:33.720
player when it comes to all of
this, having worked for Bigelow for many

1209
01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:38.920
many years and then also involved with
the A Tip program some of this Pentagon

1210
01:34:39.000 --> 01:34:44.760
work, so his insight is absolutely
invaluable and we got a lot of great

1211
01:34:44.760 --> 01:34:47.359
news right there, So thank you
so much to Eric Davis. Also,

1212
01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:51.720
I do want to give you some
updates, so I did talk about earlier

1213
01:34:53.039 --> 01:34:57.800
before going into the first break that
you can still save on the International UFO

1214
01:34:57.920 --> 01:35:00.359
Congress. Go check out Ufocongress dot
Co. If you want to get some

1215
01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:05.159
tickets any of the packages, you
can get fifty dollars off still and they

1216
01:35:05.199 --> 01:35:10.720
are early bird pricing, so you're
gonna get absolutely the best deal right now.

1217
01:35:11.079 --> 01:35:15.920
Go use the code save fifty so
when you're checking out all up uppercase,

1218
01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:19.279
put save fifty and you'll be able
to get a hold of that deal.

1219
01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:23.039
Also, some people you know,
some of you, have mentioned that

1220
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:28.000
UFO that hovering UFO lamp that you
saw me do with UFO Live and stuff,

1221
01:35:28.119 --> 01:35:30.359
or you can see it behind me
in Martin Show. We do have

1222
01:35:30.439 --> 01:35:34.680
those at the UFO Congress store,
so visit the store also if you want

1223
01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:39.119
to see some of the cool stuff
we got there, including those very cool

1224
01:35:39.520 --> 01:35:44.560
lamps. Otherwise, I do want
to also give you an update on Patreon.

1225
01:35:44.600 --> 01:35:47.159
So I haven't talked about that much, but yes, please do.

1226
01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:54.199
I'm asking you all to please go
to Patreon and register for a dollar.

1227
01:35:54.399 --> 01:35:57.119
At least. You know, there's
three different cheer levels, but yeah,

1228
01:35:57.279 --> 01:36:00.399
the least one is a dollar.
And the reason I'm saying this is because

1229
01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:03.520
then I'm going to share with you
exclusive content. So last week we had

1230
01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:13.079
this really cool exclusive audio of Bryce
Able sharing a story about a former department

1231
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:20.319
or a secretary of Energy who apparently, at least allegedly had an alien experience.

1232
01:36:20.439 --> 01:36:24.560
So if you want to hear that
story, go to Patreon, and

1233
01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:27.720
you've got to be a patron to
be able to hear that. Otherwise,

1234
01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:31.600
I got some new audio. So
David Marler, he's famous for triangle shaped

1235
01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:36.520
UFOs. He literally wrote the book
on it, and he's done some amazing

1236
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:40.119
research. I've had him on the
show a couple of times. If you

1237
01:36:40.279 --> 01:36:44.680
haven't heard of him, look him
up. He's absolutely incredible. In fact,

1238
01:36:44.840 --> 01:36:47.920
his book is always in my list
of recommended books. But he was

1239
01:36:47.960 --> 01:36:51.359
at Phoenix move On lately, so
luckily we got to hang out and I

1240
01:36:51.399 --> 01:36:55.800
did a little bit of bonus audio
for you all with him. I asked

1241
01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:00.880
him what is his favorite triangle UFO
case and tell us about it, and

1242
01:37:00.920 --> 01:37:04.800
then also what is his reaction to
this news about the Navy making some UFO

1243
01:37:04.920 --> 01:37:10.840
guidelines. So David always has some
incredible insight and that is going to be

1244
01:37:10.880 --> 01:37:14.680
posted at the Patreon site, So
if you're a patron, you can also

1245
01:37:14.800 --> 01:37:17.439
listen to that audio. So some
special stuff, and I mean, come

1246
01:37:17.479 --> 01:37:20.720
on, it's only a buck.
A month and you get the special stuff,

1247
01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:26.800
several special videos and audios throughout the
month, and you also help me

1248
01:37:26.840 --> 01:37:29.359
out because I want to keep doing
this, i want to keep sharing UFO

1249
01:37:29.479 --> 01:37:33.079
information, and I've got to be
able to make some money doing it.

1250
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:38.199
Otherwise I've got to kind of transfer
my efforts into things that do make money.

1251
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:41.119
But that would be a great help
if you could just go in there

1252
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:44.000
and do that for me. Thank
you so much. You'll find the link

1253
01:37:44.039 --> 01:37:48.640
in the show notes. Otherwise,
I want to think that people who have

1254
01:37:48.680 --> 01:37:53.399
helped out this show to well,
I should give you an update. Some

1255
01:37:53.439 --> 01:37:55.600
of you have been asking when are
you gonna have it? Loui Elizondo on

1256
01:37:55.640 --> 01:38:00.439
when you're gonna have Louelizondo on,
All I can say is soon. Each

1257
01:38:00.479 --> 01:38:02.199
week he's hopeful, He's like,
oh, I think it's going to be

1258
01:38:02.279 --> 01:38:04.840
this week. I think it's going
to be this week. But we have

1259
01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:09.680
to wait for the History Channel guys
to kind of say, hey, greenlight,

1260
01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:12.800
it's time to go ahead, because
they usually have kind of a period

1261
01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:15.760
of time where they're like really pushing
the show, you know. And so

1262
01:38:15.039 --> 01:38:19.039
in fact, I've got a couple
of great stories with some new information including

1263
01:38:19.079 --> 01:38:24.960
an interview, a short little bit
of an update from Leslie Kane, the

1264
01:38:25.039 --> 01:38:30.079
person who helped write that original New
York Times article that broke the Pentagon news,

1265
01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:33.000
some clarification that I've put in a
story that's going to be upcoming.

1266
01:38:33.039 --> 01:38:36.520
So I've got a couple of really
great upcoming Den of Geek stories that update

1267
01:38:36.600 --> 01:38:41.199
you about a tip in the Pentagon
program. So you go into this History

1268
01:38:41.239 --> 01:38:45.680
Channel show knowing all you can,
and really, I don't think there's anybody

1269
01:38:45.680 --> 01:38:48.800
out there. There's not a whole
lot of people that is sharing public articles

1270
01:38:48.920 --> 01:38:54.239
to this depth about what's going on. The one person I can think of

1271
01:38:54.279 --> 01:39:01.079
who's really actually the best resource for
all of this is George Napp with KLAS.

1272
01:39:01.199 --> 01:39:05.039
So he's doing a tremendous job and
he's got some new information coming out

1273
01:39:05.399 --> 01:39:11.039
this week, which is important,
So do pay attention to George Nap as

1274
01:39:11.119 --> 01:39:15.439
well with KLAS. But otherwise you
got me. So I'm getting out information

1275
01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:18.520
all the time, and I've got
new news coming out this month and it'll

1276
01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:23.520
be related to all of this,
so always some cool stuff. So if

1277
01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:27.520
you follow me on Patreon, you'll
also be updated to everything that I'm up

1278
01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:32.520
to and all of this late breaking
information so you will be the most informed.

1279
01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:39.119
Huh. That's that's worth something,
right, So go check that out.

1280
01:39:39.439 --> 01:39:43.960
Thank you all so much for joining
us today. I want to thank

1281
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:49.199
Caleb Hanks with the opening and Closed
Music Systematics with the bumper music. Sorry,

1282
01:39:49.199 --> 01:39:51.640
I've got to sniffles. My nose
has been stuff, so I'm doing

1283
01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:57.079
the uzz and kind of out of
it a little bit at least, you

1284
01:39:57.119 --> 01:40:00.800
know, sound and funny and stuff. Not that I don't always sound funny

1285
01:40:00.840 --> 01:40:03.000
at least some of the feedback is, but oh well, what can you

1286
01:40:03.039 --> 01:40:06.640
do. But thanks for putting up
for me. With me this week,

1287
01:40:06.840 --> 01:40:12.560
and join us next week for another
great show, hopefully if it's lou If

1288
01:40:12.560 --> 01:40:15.800
not next week, it'll be the
week after. But even if it isn't,

1289
01:40:15.840 --> 01:40:18.920
I have a number of really great
shows lined up for us, So

1290
01:40:19.399 --> 01:40:25.520
stay tuned. We'll talk to you
next week. Until then, audio smooth,

1291
01:40:25.680 --> 01:41:15.920
chachos you mus