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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
JOFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with Martin Goofy. Willis me. Yeah,

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you're you're being kind of goofy this
morning. See look wow uh yeah

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uh, I like that about myself. Yeah, that's a good thing by

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far. Yeah. I don't want
to take life seriously at all anymore.

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That's it. I'm done. Really, is there something recently that has pushed

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you to this? Aliens are here? Oh wow? And what gave you

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that revelation? Well? I also
heard that a certain gentleman that I can

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probably just tell you this without identifying
him, is now stating that there are

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beings inside the sun? Have you
heard that one? That? What's that

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song that reminds me of? This
song? Is that children of the Sun,

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Children of the Sun, something like
that. And the people that you

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know, like follow him are like
okay with that? Really that's strange.

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Yeah. See, I didn't say
you were going to give that something like

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that was going to be your motivation, because if that truly does convince you,

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then I think you've got a problem. That that's that's You're weird.

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Oh oh I've got problems. Yeah, no, but to be honest,

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one of the most compelling people to
discuss, you know, possible alien visitors

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was when your guests, your last
guest, the Aerial School witness, I

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know, how so long. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of feedback,

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more than I've ever gotten for any
show I've ever done since I've started.

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Yeah. Well, we had you
know, Emily Trim and other witness at

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our conference. You were there,
I think, right, yes, I

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was. It was very emotional.
It was actually really good. Yeah,

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that was amazing. So you know, when they these guys were children having

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this strange experience where they see a
creature and then now being older, they

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can just I guess articulated a bit
more. But uh, it's just it's

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just so fascinating. Yeah. And
last week's the guest I had on my

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show, semmer CIDK. I'm telling
you, she was so well spoken,

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and I've, like I said,
I've had never had so much feedback from

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someone being on my show. And
you know, by the time you get

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done listening to her, it's like, wow, you know, I am

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totally convinced that, you know,
what she's saying is true. How cool?

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That's really cool. Interesting. So
my show today we should probably get

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into And of course we talked a
lot about Tom DeLong and stuff, but

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one of the cases in that press
conference was about this USS nimic, this

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Navy case. And one of the
experts on that case, or at least

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someone who's investigated that a lot,
is Robert Powell. Good friend. I've

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had him on the show a few
times before because he's so credible and interesting

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and he's done some cool stuff.
So he and I are discussing that Nimetz

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case and some other stuff on the
show today. Wow. I really like

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Robert. He's really, really,
very scientific, and he's in person,

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down to earth guy, and he's
done some really cool stuff in relation to

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this case. Really, I'm really
excited to listen. Yeah, you should

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be, Oh, you should be. Don't make me goofy. It's funny

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because you know, I can't help
but help, but be goofy. And

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maybe that's why we get along because
you're goofy too. But it's sometimes when

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the topics are serious, you know, like last time was Leslie Kane and

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this time it's Robert, and it's
interesting stuff. You know, there's a

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tinge of guilt because I know some
of them would like us to get to

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the serious stuff and maybe like to
skip the goofy, but they can fast

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forward. But I just you know
what, I couldn not be goofy even

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if I tried really hard. All
right, So Goofy the Goofy UFO show.

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So anyway, we don't get too
goofy though we have fun, but

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we of course cover some very serious
stuff, which is why you're here.

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Because you are the UFO news man. I'm you're supposed to bring us some

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good UFO news every week, and
I hope that you have something today.

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I am coming at you here from
the state of Maine. I have this

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great story. Nice well, I
forget how the announcers voice. I can't

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always do that too well. But
anyway, I love love this the story.

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This is Star Trek's creators Sun discuss
the UFOs and Aliens, and that

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is Gene Roddenberry's son Eugene. Wow
At what a great video that is.

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And I'm glad you liked it.
I really do. And that was by

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Jeremy Corbel. I believe actually this
interview and some of the things he says

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is he's very intelligent. By the
way, you can tell right away very

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well spoken, and he's you know, basically saying, you know that he

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believes that there is life on other
planets and that he helps us super and

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evolved and intelligent and have chosen not
to interfere with us. That's what he

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basically believes. That he doesn't think
they're going to interfere with us. When

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when asked if he was afraid,
also, I love this question. If

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you had one thing to say to
an alien, what would you say?

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And he basically says, how did
they get where they are today, assuming

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of course that they are more advanced
than us? And you know, he

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wanted to know this because it gives
us hope that we could also evolve one

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day as well, you know,
similar. But it's a great interview.

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I hope the listeners check it out. And it's uh was posted the other

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day and right on Openminds dot TV. I'm glad you liked it because I

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liked it too. It's fun.
You know, a lot of us,

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of course, are Star Trek fans, and it's always hit or miss when

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you post anything about a celebrity,
because there are those celebrity haters out there

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who love to say, what do
we care about? What? They have

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to say. But you know,
I think that especially how this guy has

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lived with Star Trek his entire life
and had aliens part of his life,

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I think that makes it really interesting. And he's very nice, and he's

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very encouraging, like he's saying,
you know, UFO guys, you know,

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get out there and do it.
And so that was really cool.

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I did like that video, and
so that's why I was really excited to

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kind of summarize it and post it. And he also says, you know,

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if just one of the UFO sightings, and there are so many,

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you know, they have to you
know, at least one of them has

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to be real. And if that's
real, then you know that's this is

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big. It really means something.
Mm hmm. Yeah. So, and

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also I think Star Trek, you
know, whether people like it or not,

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is very very It has been a
very important thing because it's actually encouraged

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so many scientists or people to look
into space. And you know, I

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heard I watched a documentary and on
that and Star Trek is big. It's

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really big in a lot of people's
pasts and have encouraged them to, you

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know, instead of going to something
else, you know, going into say

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astrophysics or something like that. You
know exactly astronomy, Yeah, exactly,

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which makes it really important. And
you know what I always find fascinating too,

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And I often ask the directors and
writers that I interview, some of

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which you know people have heard actually
a couple of times, probably on the

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show. Is it seems that every
well I think maybe you and I have

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talked about that, but every version
of the future that is portrayed, especially

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the distant future, always includes aliens. Hmm. Wow. Yeah, and

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so it almost seems like it's this
subconscious like, uh, expectation that we

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all have for the future. I
think it's pretty realistic myself. Actually.

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So another cool thing this was really
neat is uh And I guess we didn't

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talk about this because you were you
were surprised when you saw it posted,

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and I thought we had talked about
it, but I guess not. It

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is Newsweek, this special edition that's
out right now, Life Beyond Earth,

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question Mark the mis to find the
Answer. So you're like, Okay,

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it's Newsweek this it's going to have
some great articles about NASA and astrobiology and

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how they're looking for microbes in space
or something. But you open up the

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pages and you see a bunch of
UFO weirdos like me. That's right.

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So they covered a lot of actual
weirdos. I'm kidding, but a UFO

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research, they covered, abduction,
they covered. Actually, what was impressive

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is they covered a lot of topics. They only touched on a lot of

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them, but they covered a lot
of topics, mostly about UFO research and

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alien abduction and stuff like this,
mixed in with some stories like you would

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expect the NASA stories, the set
SETI stories and stuff like that. But

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they treated them all very well across
the board, and it was so cool

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that they did that, you know, mixed up these stories and took it

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all very seriously because of course,
the researchers they covered take it all very

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seriously, and many of whom are
very very interesting and I think have you

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know, interesting things to share.
So it was a lot of fun.

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It was really cool. People can
go to their grocery store. If you

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can't find it at your grocery store, then you can go to Barnes and

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Noble or something and they'll have it
there. But I've found it in the

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grocery stores out here. The Newsweek
special edition just on the newsstands Life Beyond

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Earth, and at one of the
last pages they recommend a few books and

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they recommend this podcast. I know. I couldn't believe it. How cool

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is that? Wow? That is
amazing with your logo and everything, talk

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about free advertising, the logo and
everything, and your subtitle that you put

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in there is Newsweek's special edition covers
UFOs and the search for Aliens in a

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Pod of Light. And that's just
exactly what it is. Which is so

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good to see something like that.
Yeah and weird. Huh. Yeah,

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it's I would have never expected it. Actually, definitely a very pleasure.

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Have you been able to pick it
up yet? I have not, but

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I'm going to get down to Boston
in a couple of days and pick one

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up. I'm in the main Woods, you know. So here's a story

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that I haven't covered. I didn't
even post it in my headlines, but

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I want to talk about it here
on the show because it's so funny,

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and that is this guy. There's
a ranch out here that is supposedly this

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you know, UFO ranch type of
thing and where there's aliens and stuff like

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that. And I'm going to bring
up this story and one of the reasons

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I didn't cover it or anything is
because it is a U. K.

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Tabloid story, and for the most
part, I haven't been covering those,

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even though you and I have been
actually speaking more positively of these people as

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of late, because they've done some
a few kind of interesting stories here and

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there. But here it is.
So it's in the Daily Mail, of

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course, you know they've got all
of their racy stuff there. But and

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people won't ask me about this guy. And you've probably heard the name John

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Edmonds. People do they ask you
about this doesn't sound familiar? Okay,

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So he's got this ranch out here
in Buckeye where he said he's like slain

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eighteen aliens with a Samurai sword because
they keep harassing him. And it used

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to be one. See my girlfriend
Karen, she actually went out there to

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investigate and meet the guy. And
back then, you know, his claims

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were totally different because they're made up
goofy stuff, unfortunately, and people believe

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the guy and it's sad that he
lies and everything, but obviously he is.

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So it used to be one alien, but now I guess he told

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the Daily Mail he's killed eighteen of
them because for twenty years, they've been

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attacking him at his ranch and his
wife Joyce. So his wife Joyce when

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of course she when my girlfriend went
out there and she's thinking of writing a

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story. I hope she does.
I'd love to post it on open Minds

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where she shares her experience. You
know, Joyce had said that she didn't

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remember anything or happening to her,
but now she tells the Daily Mail that

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she was molested by an alien in
her sleep. But one of the reasons

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his story is up is they're trying
to sell their ranch for five million dollars

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and their goofy alien story has gotten
some press lately. So originally they listed

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their property for one million dollars,
but they say because of their Internet and

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TV fame as of Light, they
raised the price to five million dollars.

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Now does this include the eighteen alien
carcasses? Well, I guess we would

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find out, because if you would
be able to find out is the alien

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are the alien experiences due to the
location or them personally? And you know

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what if this was real and then
they leave and they find out, you

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know, they get an apartment,
but they still have all these aliens attacking

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their apartment because it's them and not
the property. Well, you know,

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he started it. He's slain the
alien to begin with, mm hmm.

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But yeah, it's funny because Karen
had gone out there where it was after

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he had slain an alien, and
you know, there was there's no evidence

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he could point to, but he
provided a picture to them of his samurai

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sword in like this what looks like
a kind of a pool of blood or

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something. Yeah, not to my
girlfriend back there, but now they seem

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to have this as or as they
did didn't have it before, and uh

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so it's kind of funny, this
samurai sword. They feel like they've been

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using really wild, crazy goofrey stories
and it's kind of big out here because

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people will say, have you been
out there? You know, have you

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gotten into it? And of course, as my listeners would know, this

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is not something I would really take
seriously to begin with, unless there was

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some reason to. But yeah,
really really wild stuff, so people can

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might run across that story. Now, realistically, did he actually when he's

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he's slain these aliens? If he
actually did, wouldn't he like be pretty

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excited to show a body of a
real slain alien to someone I don't know

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what he says he does with the
bodies. Wow. So she says,

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I Karen here, and she said
he told her that they disappear. Of

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course they do. Yeah yeah,
that's yeah, kind of like the movie.

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That makes sense. Yeah yeah,
but I guess the blood used to

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disappear, but apparently it's not disappearing
anymore. Well, yeah, after you

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get up you know, over sixteen
aliens, it doesn't disappear anymore. Yeah,

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probably. Yeah, coating and all
that must be. Wow, pretty

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funny, pretty crazy stuff. So
people are going to run across this.

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And you know, for those of
you who have been wondering if I take

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John Edmond's case seriously, because I
get asked that occasionally and I do share

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that, I do not take it
seriously. And yeah, the story's changed,

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and for five million dollars you can
buy his ranch. But I have

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a feeling being in the real estate
market myself. And when I told you

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know, Karen, my girlfriend who
does real estate with me, she gets

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bummed when people don't use her at
that for real estate. And I was

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like, you're going to be bummed
because your buddy, John Edmonds is not

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only using you to list his estate, and he's asking for five million dollars,

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which is not going to get anyway. Well, you know, just

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having a little bit of knowledge in
real estate, I can tell you that,

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you know, even it has to
be someone like an a celebrity before

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or a real historic home before it's
going to make any difference in price.

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Yeah. By the way, were
these aliens possibly from the sun? Just

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trying to tie this all in together? Children of this? Uh? I

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heard they're pretty hot too? Yeah, sorry, that's cute. Yeah,

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sorry, Yeah, a little joke. I am goofy, so I had

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to think of something that was a
goofy joke, that's for sure. Yeah,

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joke should be not that I'm aware
of. I do not believe that's

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the case, even though it is
so hot here it feels like you're living

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in the sun. I do believe
they're from the sun. Yeah, isn't

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that weird? But you know,
getting back to the people in the sun

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thing, because there is I don't
know. It's difficult because if the person

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is who I think it is,
he keeps making these really bombastic claims that

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are really wild and out there,
and some of them, for instance,

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there's a guy who follows him and
says, oh you know, he got

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another UFO photo and deid to give
it away over mcdeial Air Force Base.

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They're balloons, you know, and
if these pictures would have been posted,

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like to our UFO newsgroup, we
would have all said it's a balloon.

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In one case it was long and
skinny. It was totally one of those

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solar balloons. And so they're balloons. And actually mcdeal Air Force Base.

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I think we talked about this,
wrote a story and made fun of the

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whole thing because they somehow ran across
that he was doing this, so they

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posted something on the website making fun
of it. And I don't know,

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there are groups, there's people like
him and others and their followers just really

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throw discernment out the window exactly right. Yeah, it's like they're almost like

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they're grasping for something. You know. It's really psychologically difficult to understand it

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is until you just put it in
the realm of religion. And because you

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know, a lot of religions are
very similar, a lot of new religions

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pop up. That's why I did
that talk about UFOs and religions at the

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conference, and it's one of them. I like, because the whole belief

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thing is intertwined. And you know, a lot of people will say,

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I don't like this, I believe
I know. Well, no, you

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do believe, and we do believe, and we can't just I think it's

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dangerous for us to make blanket statements
like that. You may know because you've

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witnessed something, and maybe you do
know because of your experiences, but the

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terminology of belief is still accurate because, for instance, if you ask a

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scientist about dark matter, they would
need to say I believe dark matter is

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real or I believe it's not.
It's still the proper terminology dark matter is

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when I bring up because we can't
prove there is such a thing as dark

253
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matter. We can prove that there's
something similar something going on, but dark

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matter might not be what's causing these
observed anomalies or phenomena, and so,

255
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yeah, believe it is a big
deal. We all believe different things,

256
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and we all may be right or
wrong. But yeah, when I guess

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your beliefs get so counter to reality
where you just kind of throw it,

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throw it out the window and you
want to call a balloon an alien spacecraft

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from the sun or something. So
what airbase did you say this was where

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it is located mcdeial mcdeal's kind of
a big deal. It's where they make

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But is that last Vegas? No, it is in Florida. Sorry,

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I was stalling because I was looking
it up. So I was stalling with

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those terrible jokes and puns and stuff
while I was trying to look up where

264
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it was. Tampa in Florida.
Yeah, okay, right, all right,

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yeah, how about that? Yeah? Well, interesting stuff. But

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otherwise let's see, uh for the
UFO news that is out there, there

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is some interesting stuff. There have
been some little events going on here and

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there. And you know what's funny, Travis always gets in the news,

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Travis Walton so often. And he
was just out somewhere showing off his movie.

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And it is so funny that they
cover him so often, right,

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I mean, isn't he in the
newsweek article as well? Yeah, he

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is in the newsweek as well.
But he's always out there somewhere. I

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mean, he's traveling doing talks in
so many places that the local news will

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often write a little story about a
UFO guy coming. And that's how he

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gets in the news so much.
And all these local papers and everything.

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Hm Wow. But you know what, we haven't even announced this. We're

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gonna have some really cool Travis Walton
stuff. Travis Walton, it's kind of

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a recurring thing at the UFO Congress, one of very few, but it's

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partially because we know him so well
and he's out here in Arizona. And

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you know, Karen, my girlfriend, did run his fortieth anniversary event,

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and she did a ton of work
in kind of unearthing a lot of witnesses

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no one has ever talked to before, and so we're going to be bringing

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one of or two of those to
the conference. One of those is the

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police officer that the guy's first talk
to, and this guy's awesome, straight

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shooter, pretty elderly he is,
he is, Yeah, so this will

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be fun. And then also Travis's
brother and he shares what it was like

287
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for the family and they have some
interesting stories. So we're out of time,

288
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but yeah, that's going to be
really cool. But thanks for joining

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us for the news again, buddy, Yeah, you bet you. And

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let's go ahead. After this short
break, we'll be speaking with Robert Powell.

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Welcome back. You're listening to Open
Mind UFO Radio and I am here

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once again. With Robert Powell.
Hi, alijndro It's good to talk to

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you again. Yeah, it's good
to have you back your frequent guests.

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But I'm a big admirer of your
work. Well. Thanks. We'll be

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talking about this USS Nimics project,
and the reason we're talking about this is

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because Tom DeLong, you know,
made this announcement for this organization he's putting

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together. And although Tom DeLong has
a lot of you know, wild kind

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of ideas that he's talked about,
the group he's put together are people who

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have worked in the government and what
they've said said in that press conference or

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what they've come out with some of
it which is really useful to us and

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new and different in particular this DoD
project to look at unknowns, but it's

302
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not so different than the story the
documents have put together, like the documents

303
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you collected for the book, right
right. I think there are some similarities

304
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there. And I do know two
of the individuals on Tom's group, Chris

305
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Mellen and how put Off, and
I have a lot of respect for both

306
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of those gentlemen, and they both
have what I consider a very conservative view

307
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of the UFO phenomenon, which is
similar similar to my view on the topic.

308
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Well, what I found interesting and
speaking with you know j one of

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the guys also in the group who
had a career in the CIA. Of

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course, Tom DeLong. The scenario
that he paints is, like I said,

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very out there, with abductions and
aliens and all of these things being

312
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included. However, on the flip
side, the picture that is painted by

313
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these gentlemen who were in the government, it's much different, and it kind

314
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of paints the picture a picture John
Alexander often puts forth, I think that

315
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your work in the book kind of
goes here, and it's something that I

316
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think that is accurate as well,
you know, other governments, it's somewhat

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similar in that they don't know a
whole lot. They know there's a mystery

318
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and that they can't solve, but
otherwise it doesn't seem like they know a

319
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whole lot more than that, right, And that's what I was trying to

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suggest when I was saying using the
term conservative for how Chris Mellan and how

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put off, I mean how I've
talked to in person several times, and

322
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Chris I've talked on the phone with
him over the course of two to three

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years, usually an hour at a
time. So I'm very familiar with how

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they see the phenomenon. And it's
just like you explained, Alejandro. I

325
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mean, it's no one knows a
lot about it other than it physically exists

326
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and it appears to be intelligently controlled. But other than that, there's not

327
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a lot of information in terms of, you know, what's the origin.

328
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You know, is there something in
the UFO or is it unoccupied? Is

329
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it? I mean, clearly it
rad radar bounces off of it, But

330
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is it a you know, a
physical entity that exists in our I'll just

331
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use the term space time or is
it something that's you know, not exactly

332
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here. I mean, that's all
in there. I'm speculating, right,

333
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So no one, no one really
knows much about it. So I'm when

334
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people start talking about aliens in the
government, I'm just not there. I

335
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just see it for the information that
we have, right, and I think

336
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that's important to build on the information
that we have. And that's what's an

337
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:52.480
interesting dynamic about this whole thing is
that you have Tom DeLong and and you

338
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.039
know, I really like Tom.
He's a nice guy. He's an interesting

339
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.920
guy. Here, He's passionate about
this field, and I think personally,

340
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.359
you know, getting this group of
people together that he got to group get

341
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together was very very important, and
getting us in contact with these people who

342
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I think they can help us further
our work. But what he's saying is

343
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just so much different than what the
other guys are saying that it's kind of

344
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like, at least for me,
a lot of people kind of get up

345
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in arms about what Tom DeLonge is
saying and doing, But for me,

346
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:37.119
we can't really do much with what
Tom's version of this whole phenomena is because

347
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:41.799
he's not really providing any substance to
back up a lot of the more wild

348
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kind of claims. Whereas with this
group of guys he's put together, these

349
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are guys who were in the government, who like us, have a genuine

350
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interest in looking at this phenomena in
an incredible way and right and are kind

351
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of in the same place as start
off with, which is kind of just

352
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like this scenario we just talked about, right, and I could understand people's

353
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.279
concerns, right, I mean,
if I did not know how, and

354
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I did not know Chris and I
had first seen this, right, and

355
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mostly you're hearing what Tom is saying, I would have been very skeptical of

356
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:29.680
the entire thing. But because I
do know Chris and how and know that

357
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those guys are very conservative scientifically,
especially how scientifically based individuals, I know

358
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that their intent is good. I'm
not as familiar, you know, with

359
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.039
the other guys that are on the
stage, Lou and Jay, so I

360
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:56.680
can't comment one way or another,
but I'm open to it because of what

361
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I know of Chris and how m
Were you surprised by Lou Elizondo's claims of

362
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:12.200
this unidentified threat project he was on
in the d O D. Yeah,

363
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I was somewhat surprised by that,
and I would like to hear more information

364
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:24.640
about it, because I guess my
thoughts on this is if he has right

365
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:30.799
he when he left the d D. I'm sure he had non disclosure agreements

366
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.640
he had to sign and government oaths
that he had to sign, so he

367
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:44.240
can probably release information that is not
classified. But I don't see how he

368
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:50.960
can release information that is classified.
So to that extent, I'm thinking,

369
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.119
Okay, well, how does he
establish the UFOs are real? Now?

370
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When I say UFOs are real in
my mind and there's no doubt that they're

371
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real because I've studied, you know, hundreds of cases and it becomes just

372
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:12.160
amountain of evidence. It tells me
that. But if you're talking to the

373
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public and you're trying to establish the
UFOs are real, and you're going to

374
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do it one case for example,
and you're going to have photographs and videos

375
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where there's no doubt about it,
well, I'm just not sure how he

376
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:32.279
could do that with information that's unclassified. But my view here as time will

377
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:36.839
tell. So if he can do
it, then I'm all for it.

378
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So I'm willing to wait and see
what can he present. What I think

379
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:49.440
is this scenario, and you can
tell me if you think differently, is

380
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that he worked at this capacity looking
at these unknowns, then he personally came

381
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:05.000
to the conclusion that some of these
are technology that are beyond ours and that

382
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:13.280
now that he has left knows of
material that can be declassified and shared publicly

383
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:22.280
that perhaps he feels bolsters his case, but that it's perhaps not an official

384
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:30.679
stance of this organization, right right, I think what you just said I

385
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.480
can agree with. I just don't
know based on that, how can he

386
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:43.920
convince the majority of the public that
you know, UFOs are definitely real.

387
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.920
That's what's going to be exciting because
hopefully we'll be He's going to be sharing

388
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:54.000
material apparently, and hopefully it seems
like this will be stuff we haven't seen

389
00:34:54.079 --> 00:35:01.079
before, perhaps nobody in the public
has seen. So that's because hopefully it's

390
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:07.199
very compelling that I think that's really
exciting. And just to clarify what I

391
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:15.920
said there for your audience, there
are a good number of people with science

392
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.880
backgrounds that I know that have studied
the topic in detail. Right, They've

393
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:27.480
reviewed hundreds of cases, and after
reviewing all those, there's no doubt I

394
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:31.719
believe in most of these people's mind
that the UFO phenomenon is real. But

395
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.519
it's if you follow what I'm saying, it's not like you can just throw

396
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:44.639
out one case and nail it down. It's more of studying the history of

397
00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:50.480
the phenomenon in all these hundreds of
cases that have radar data, visual data,

398
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:58.199
radar and visual data together in combination. That makes you know that it's

399
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:04.760
a physically real phenomen I'm gonna that's
intelligently controlled. Beyond that, that's all

400
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:08.559
we know, right right, And
he seems to be careful to not go

401
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.960
any further than that either. Oh
that's Lou that you're talking about. Yes,

402
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:22.039
okay, Yeah, And you know
when I talked I talked to Chris

403
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:28.599
and he did indicate that in the
next few weeks they should be releasing some

404
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:34.559
more interesting information. So I'm looking
forward to that, and I'm willing to

405
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.480
give them a chance to see what
they have. Yeah, exactly. And

406
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:43.920
I guess you know a lot of
people keep calling this Tom DeLong and Tom

407
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:47.039
DeLong, Tom DeLong, you know, over and over again. And Tom

408
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:53.880
was a facilitator of all of this, but you know, really Tom's pieces

409
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:59.480
are not when I'm most interested in
currently. I'm more interested what I see

410
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.760
is kind of something totally separate,
which is this to the Stars Academy with

411
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.480
how put Off and Chris Mellan and
Lou and all these guys were talking about

412
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:12.320
because they're similar to us. I
mean, there are guys with a passion

413
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:17.599
for this phenomenon who are looking to, you know, figure it out.

414
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:22.039
Yeah, I agree with you completely. I mean, with all due respect

415
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:28.039
to Tom DeLong, that's his Part's
not the part that interests me. It's

416
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:32.199
what the other guys can provide that's
of interest. To me. So one

417
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:36.800
of the things that they provided,
and this was a cool part of it

418
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.360
too, especially given who Chris Mellan
is, and maybe we should start off

419
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:45.880
with that was this Nimtz case that
he talked about, which was one of

420
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.760
the more exciting parts of the press
conference. But Chris, so, Chris

421
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:58.360
mellen first kind of came out about
UFOs when he joined this UFO Data organization,

422
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.440
which now you're a part of.
You can describe what that organization is.

423
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:09.800
Yeah, The UFO Data program is
a program whose goal is to develop

424
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:17.199
basically camera systems that use gratings on
the camera lens so that you can get

425
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:22.440
a spectrum of light, so that
if you detect an object at night,

426
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:27.559
the spectrum of that object tells you
a lot more than just a light on

427
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.320
a photograph screen. With the spectra, you can determine the different wavelengths that

428
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:37.280
are being omitted and whether or not
the light from the object matches a known

429
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:43.559
light such as a halogen light or
an aircraft light, etc. So that's

430
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:50.079
kind of what UFO Data is all
about, is developing a system that can

431
00:38:50.440 --> 00:39:00.480
capture real time spectral information and hopefully
optical information on unnums. Was the first

432
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:04.920
time you heard about Chris Mellen working
on all of this, well, I

433
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:09.039
think the first time I talked to
Chris was probably two or three years ago.

434
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:17.760
But I can tell you something interest
interesting on the case that he mentioned,

435
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.480
which happened in November of two thousand
and four. I probably talked to

436
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:28.840
Chris four months ago Alejandro on this
case, because I've been working the case

437
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:34.480
over a year, and when I
talked to Chris four months ago, he

438
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.280
did not have much information on that
case. I mean, he was aware

439
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:44.320
of it, and he had indicated
that he knew that there were files in

440
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:49.000
the government on it, but he
didn't have any details like you heard him

441
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:55.840
give at the press conference. So
that means somewhere in the last four months,

442
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.639
one of the guys on the team
gave Chris it's some very interesting information

443
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:07.639
on that case. Some of the
comments he made in the press conference on

444
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:14.360
the case are his information that I
was not aware of yet. And I've

445
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:22.639
been working this case since gosh June
of last year, and I've submitted over

446
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:28.079
nine foyas. I've already done two
appeals on the foyas that were denied,

447
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:35.079
So I've got a lot of interesting
information on the case some information that he

448
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:40.760
did not reveal. But like I
said, the interesting thing is that he

449
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.360
has gotten this information from someone else. So to me, that's a positive,

450
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:51.079
right, that means there is someone
on the team that has access to

451
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:54.920
some good information. What's interesting about
Chris, of course having access to information

452
00:40:55.239 --> 00:41:00.760
is his background, not only of
course, as he worked in that and

453
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.840
the Department of Defense and he was
assesstant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence for a

454
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.039
period of time. So yeah,
so a big, big deal. And

455
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:14.119
beyond that, his background is the
Mellon family, which is kind of like

456
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:20.719
the Rockefeller family. I mean,
Carnegie Mellon. Is there name Mellon banking?

457
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:27.719
Uh So he comes from a very
interesting background, which I'm sure is

458
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.639
going to add to the conspiracy.
You know, theories that will begin to

459
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:36.480
that are probably already out there.
I haven't seen much, but I'm sure

460
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.960
there can. There will always be
those, but you know, I'm When

461
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.119
I first talked to Chris a couple
of years ago, I asked his view

462
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.599
on the UFO phenomenon, and it
was the same as mine. He I

463
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.159
mean, basically, he said he
feels that, you know, the government

464
00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:01.199
knows that it's real, that it
exists, but other than that, he

465
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:07.159
doesn't feel that they know much more
than what most of us who have researched

466
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:13.480
the topic in depth know about it. Mm hmm. And that's what Jay

467
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:15.400
had told me, which was the
other guy who had a career in the

468
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:22.360
CIA. And what's interesting is Rockefeller
was into UFOs, one of the Rockefellers,

469
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:24.400
I should say Rockefeller. Of course
is many people, so you can't

470
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:30.119
just say Rockefeller, but Lawrence Rockefeller
was into the paranormal, did a lot

471
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:34.280
of funding of UFO projects and things, and he had a similar stance.

472
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:37.760
He had access to a lot of
people. But you know, most of

473
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:42.639
his research was based off of the
same sort of documents that you and I

474
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.559
have looked at, so like the
Condon Report, let's say, or the

475
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:51.800
French report that that was, I
mean, I can't remember the name right

476
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.320
now, but some of these other
great UFO reports that have been put together,

477
00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:00.920
and then he put together his own. But it was similar situation in

478
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:05.840
that they really feel there's something to
all of this, but even with all

479
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:09.760
of their connections, they don't necessarily
or at least have not discovered any sort

480
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:17.920
of secret, super secret MG twelve
type of organization in the government, right,

481
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:23.039
And the way I look at it
is I believe that there are times

482
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.800
the government hides information, right,
and that there's things the government knows that

483
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:30.679
they don't tell the public. Just
like you said, I don't believe that

484
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:37.239
there is a government organization that,
through time has continued to research it.

485
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:42.119
Take for example, this case from
November two thousand and four. I know

486
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.960
those documents exist, and I know
that the government has probably classified them and

487
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:54.679
put them somewhere right, But other
than having done that, I don't think

488
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:59.800
that there's a government agency that says, Okay, we've got these documents.

489
00:43:59.880 --> 00:44:05.199
Now, there was a case in
nineteen fifty seven with RB forty seven Bomber,

490
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.320
Right, and how does this relate
to that, And how does this

491
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.559
relate to that case that happened in
Stephenville, or how does it relate to

492
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:19.679
any other case. I just don't
think that there are these feelers that are

493
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.199
analyzing all that information. I think
it's more silo based, right. It's

494
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:28.719
like, Okay, this happened to
the Nimits and the US is Princeton,

495
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.840
let's investigate this. Okay, here's
what happened. Now. This is hard

496
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:37.760
to believe let's stick this over here
and we'll forget about it and go on

497
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.000
with our lives. I think that's
how they operate. Do you think there

498
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:46.079
should be at least a Nick Pope
out there? And what I mean by

499
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:52.480
that a UFO desk that the government
has where they are coalescing this information.

500
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:57.119
Yeah, I would think so.
I mean you were indicating that's kind of

501
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:02.480
what lou was doing. And differently, over history, there have been organizations

502
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:06.679
that did that off and on,
right, I mean, that's what Project

503
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:13.800
Bluebook I supposedly was about. So
I think that has been done on and

504
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.159
on, and you know, I
argue with myself sometimes about you know,

505
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:23.800
surely there's someone out there that's that's
really analyzing all this information, right,

506
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.719
because just from a scientific logical viewpoint, you would think, okay, there

507
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:34.519
has to be. But then the
other side of me says, no,

508
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:39.840
I can't find any indication there is. It's almost like, and this is

509
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:44.840
just okay, here I'm speculating,
but this is almost like, Okay,

510
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:50.960
we're the top of the totem pole. And deep inside me, I don't

511
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:54.480
want to hear anything that says we're
not the top of the totem pole.

512
00:45:54.920 --> 00:46:00.800
So if my subconscious hears that I'm
sticking it over here and let's go on

513
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:06.400
with our life, it's almost you
know what I mean, It's almost like

514
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:14.320
a societal issue that goes beyond a
government that tries to hide information or an

515
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:24.480
individual. It's almost like is a
human race. There is a deep barrier

516
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:31.000
to considering here. Here's a good
example. Take Setting, right, which

517
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:38.800
is a scientific organization to study extraterrestrial
life out in the universe. If you

518
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:45.400
ask, okay, is there extra
intelligent life you know out there? And

519
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.400
you'll get answer from the scientists to
say, yes, we believe there is

520
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:53.599
intelligent life out there. And you
could ask is it more intelligent than us?

521
00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:58.920
And I think you're going to get
the same answer from most scientists,

522
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:04.480
right, which is yes, there
is life that may be hundreds to thousands

523
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.880
of years more intelligent than us.
Then when you ask the next question,

524
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:15.599
Okay, if that intelligent life is
out there that's more intelligent than us,

525
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:22.519
who's going to find who first?
But the answer clearly has got to be

526
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:27.880
the more intelligent life forms going to
find the less intelligent life form first.

527
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:32.400
Right. But when you read all
the science articles and everything, it's all

528
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:39.679
geared towards that it's us that finds
them, right, And so when you

529
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:45.519
ask them this final question to someone, for example, in Saty, and

530
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:50.639
you say, okay, if they're
much more advanced than us, then clearly

531
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:54.239
they know we're here right Just like
right now with all these extra solar planets,

532
00:47:54.639 --> 00:48:00.360
we're only a few decades away of
knowing which of those planets in their

533
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:07.280
atmosphere have the gases to indicate that
there's life. So why can't they get

534
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.039
here? And then, of course
the answer is always well, we can't

535
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:16.199
travel at the speed of light,
and therefore no one else can, so

536
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:21.159
there's no way they can get here. Yet. Last month, I just

537
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:25.800
went to a conference where you have
people from NASA, the United States Air

538
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.760
Force, and major universities, and
the topic was how can we send a

539
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:37.360
spacecraft to Alpha Centauri at twenty percent
of the speed of light and get it

540
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:39.960
there in twenty years? So you
see how it's like, on one hand,

541
00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:43.679
we can talk about we might be
able to get there, but if

542
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:47.199
you talk about a race thousands of
years more advance than us being able to

543
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.280
get here, it's like, okay, that's taboo. We're just not even

544
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:58.559
going to entertain that thought. Yeah, that is an excellent, excellent point

545
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.679
because it is almost like cognitive dissonance. It's almost like you know, you

546
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.320
have on the one hand, they
believe there's advanced civilizations out there, but

547
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.079
on the other hand, we're gonna
find them before they find us. That

548
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:15.360
doesn't jive, that doesn't make sense, So we are it's a great place

549
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.679
to break. We'll come back from
the break and we will talk about the

550
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.440
Nimtz case. But I think that's
an excellent point. We're here with Robert

551
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.239
pall're listening to Open Mind GFO Radio. We'll take a quick break. Some

552
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.719
of you listening on KGr A will
hear some commercials, so be sure to

553
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:37.960
patronize these lovely people who help KGRA
stay on the air. And for those

554
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:40.800
of you listening to the podcast,
you'll fit here a few seconds of music,

555
00:49:40.880 --> 00:50:15.760
but we'll be right back. Welcome
back. You're listening to Open Mind

556
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:21.039
GUFO Radio. I'm your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with

557
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:25.599
Robert Powell. Hello, Robert,
I Alejandro, Well you just made some

558
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:31.119
excellent points, Thanks so much,
and to kind of set the stage here.

559
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:36.679
But and and that's what's interesting even
though you know, people may disagree

560
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:42.000
what they do with the information.
Uh, you know. And it's one

561
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.760
of the things that John Alexander says, who worked in intelligence for so long

562
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:50.119
and tried to look into this,
that these UFO things are hot potatoes,

563
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:53.800
and and you know he's he doesn't, you know, mix words. He

564
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:59.000
says, Essentially, the UFOs issue
is dropped by the government and it shouldn't

565
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:02.280
be because out of ignorance and incompetence, and these are the sort of words

566
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:07.039
he uses that which is frustrating,
especially to him and others, because it's

567
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:13.079
an important thing, especially when you
have cases like the Nimetz case. So

568
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:20.239
maybe you could start off with when
did this happen and where and to whom?

569
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:25.920
Okay, So the Nimetz case occurred
on November fourteenth of two thousand and

570
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:34.119
four, and it happened with a
carrier Battle Group eleven, which is made

571
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.559
up was at the time, it
was made up of the USS Princeton,

572
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:46.880
which is a guided missile carrier sorry
frigate, and then you have the Nimets,

573
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:51.920
and then you have F eighteen's from
both the Marines and the Navy.

574
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:57.880
I think the Louisville was the submarine
assigned to that carrier group, and there

575
00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:04.639
are other smaller ships assigned. So
this group was practicing about seventy to one

576
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:08.880
hundred miles southwest of San Diego,
so just a routine, you know,

577
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:14.840
exercises. And while they're out there
in the ocean, the us IS Princeton

578
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:20.639
for a number of days had been
picking up on their radar some object that

579
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.119
was moving. It would be up
at eighty thousand feet and then suddenly it's

580
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:30.400
right near the ocean surface. So
it was moving vertically at a very rapid

581
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:38.119
speed. And the us IS Princeton
had at that time what's called spy Dash

582
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:44.519
one radar, which was the most
advanced radar that we had, and it

583
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:52.360
basically operates by scanning across all sorts
of different frequencies simultaneously in order to maintain

584
00:52:53.119 --> 00:53:00.559
a contact with an object. So
on November fourteenth, this object shows up,

585
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:08.519
and so the Princeton first calls a
marine F eighteen and when they call

586
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:13.920
the aircraft to go check this out. And when they call that, there's

587
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:20.280
also an airborne aircraft one of the
kind of similar to an a wax,

588
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.800
but the Navy uses what they call
the E two C but it's a it's

589
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:30.039
an A wax, so they're in
communication with the A wax. The A

590
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:34.079
wax says, yes, he sees
the target, but it kind of comes

591
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.360
and goes, so his radars are
not picking up picking it up as well

592
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:45.280
as the Princeton. So the vector
this marine F eighteen to the location.

593
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:51.960
So he's headed there, and as
he's going to the location, he gets

594
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:57.119
a call from the Princeton and tells
him to leave the area because they have

595
00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:01.000
now contacted two F eighteens from the
NIM and they're on their way. So

596
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:08.920
two super hornets are headed there.
So he leaves the scene, and apparently

597
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:14.960
as he's leaving, he also sees
in the water. He doesn't see the

598
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.000
object and the objects in the air, but in the water. He noted

599
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.119
that the water was crystal clear,
you know, it was almost like glass.

600
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:27.119
But he sees a bubbling as if
you know, a ship was sinking.

601
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.840
It was his best description of what
it looked like. But he vectors

602
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:35.519
away because the FA teens are coming
in. So the two FA teens come

603
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:40.239
in and in their conversation with the
Princeton, that Princeton asked, Okay,

604
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:44.440
do you guys have anything on your
radar, they reply back, no,

605
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:47.280
there is nothing on our radar at
the coordinates that you're sending us to.

606
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:53.360
So meanwhile they continue towards those coordinates
and as they approached it, though,

607
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:58.360
then they visually see this object.
And it's not clear if there was one

608
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:04.559
or two objects, but the object
is described as a tic tac. And

609
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.239
for your listeners, who recall those
little candy tic TACs that come in a

610
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:14.440
little plastic jar, and they they're
kind of a white, long elongated oval,

611
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:17.880
so that's how he described them.
So the two FA teens are approaching

612
00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:23.760
and as they see the tic tac, the tic tac has no wings,

613
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:30.440
has there's no method of propulsion,
but the tic TAC's front begins to turn

614
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:36.559
and point towards the FA team.
So the pilot considers that an aggressive maneuver.

615
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.199
So one FA team goes up to
a higher altitude. The other F

616
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:45.239
eighteen engages the tic tac, and
by engage it, he is trying to

617
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:52.199
get behind the tic tac so that
it's in front of him, and so

618
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:58.599
he does some type of I'm not
familiar with the maneuvers that native pilot shoes.

619
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:02.280
He uses this maneuver to try to
get behind the tic tack, but

620
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:09.639
the tic tac goes behind him,
is sitting behind him, and these you

621
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:16.119
know, maneuvers go on for a
number of seconds, and then the tic

622
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:20.960
tac just leaves and it's either one
or two tick tacks, but the tic

623
00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:25.280
TACs lead the scene. The FA
teens can't keep up with them because they

624
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:30.639
left so such a high rate of
speed. They head back to the Nemens.

625
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.159
They're on their way back to the
Nimens and then the Princeton calls them

626
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:40.760
and says, those targets are back
exactly where they were when you first encountered

627
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:46.679
them. So the two FA teen
pilots say, we do not have enough

628
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:51.960
fuel to go back and engage them, so we're going to continue to the

629
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:59.119
Neimts, and supposedly the Nimets then
sends two other FA teams to that same

630
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:04.119
location. Now at this point,
I don't know exactly what happens there,

631
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:12.079
and there's video taken, and my
best, as far as I can put

632
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:15.480
the pieces together, is I think
the video was taken by the two F

633
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:23.079
eighteens that came after the first two
faighteens encountered the object. And there's a

634
00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:30.760
there is an IR video that's been
leaked to the internet. I've been able

635
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:35.280
to verify it is the type of
video there's an F eighteen during that era

636
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.559
would have used. But whether or
not it is actually the video, I

637
00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:46.000
don't know, But that's not what's
important to me. What's more important was

638
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:54.039
the description given by the pilots when
all of this happened. And this descriptions

639
00:57:54.119 --> 00:58:01.840
basically was released by another on a
Navy blog site. So this is not

640
00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:07.079
on some UFO site where I first
found this information. It's on a Navy

641
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:14.400
blog site by a naval aviator who
normally writes about jets. He doesn't write

642
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:20.480
about UFOs, but he does have
this one story, so that's kind of

643
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:27.800
a summary of that event. And
so all total, there are five Navy

644
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:32.039
assets involved. There's the nimits,
the USS Princeton, a total of four

645
00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:39.840
Navy F eight teens, and a
Marine AT eighteen, and a Navy airborne

646
00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:49.599
Electronics aircraft similar to an a wax
so I. In December of last year,

647
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:54.480
I submitted nine foyas, which that's
the Freedom of Information Act request which

648
00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:04.000
a government organization is supposed to answer. Your request for information is long as

649
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.760
it's not classified, and if it
is classified, they're supposed to tell you.

650
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:14.639
So I send these requests for information
on all five of these naval assets,

651
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:21.239
and I send it to nine different
navy and marine sites. So by

652
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:28.679
April I have received a denial from
every one of those, and the denial

653
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:34.800
basically says we have no information responsive
to your request. They didn't state this

654
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.239
is classified or anything. Basically,
they just said we went and looked for

655
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:45.079
the information, we can't find any
information. End of story. So then

656
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:49.000
what you're allowed to do with the
for you is you're allowed to appeal it,

657
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.960
but you appeal it to the same
organization that you first sent the request

658
00:59:54.039 --> 01:00:00.639
to. It's kind of like the
fox guarding the the hen house. So

659
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:08.599
I appeal it. Now the appeal
goes to the at the Judge Advocate General,

660
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:15.119
which most people have heard the phrase
in the Navy jags, right,

661
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:23.519
So that's that's the Judge Advocate General
group, which basically are attorneys that work

662
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:32.519
in the Navy. So the very
first appeal, they denied the appeal and

663
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:39.000
the reason was that as long that
and they cite federal court cases, as

664
01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:45.880
long as they made a reasonable attempt
to search, then that is sufficient.

665
01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:51.239
That's what the courts have ruled.
So then I sent a second appeal,

666
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.880
but this time I did something a
little different. I wrote an email to

667
01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:00.239
the guys I sent the appeal to, because it's the same guys that got

668
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:07.199
the first appeal right. And so
I said, Okay, your argument that

669
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:14.199
as long as we did a sufficient
look for information sufficient, I said,

670
01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:20.039
that's reasonable. But I said,
in this second appeal, what I'm arguing

671
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:27.760
is, you're talking about five different
naval assets that occurred on a given date,

672
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:32.679
and you're telling me that on all
five naval assets you can't find any

673
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:38.519
records. And I said, whether
or not a federal court judge would buy

674
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:43.119
that argument, I said, I
don't know. But I said I don't

675
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:49.000
know that our congressman will buy that
argument. And then I copied my congressmen

676
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:55.519
and senators on that second appeal.
Okay, so guess what happens in the

677
01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:00.599
second appeal. They still don't give
me the documents, but they do try

678
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:05.199
to give me something right. In
other words, they're wanting to give you,

679
01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:09.599
give me something right. And let
me let me make a note here

680
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:15.840
to your listeners. I don't think
the JAG attorneys or the foyer officers you

681
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:22.039
know that search these documents for me. I don't think they're trying to hide

682
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:29.519
anything. They're just doing their job. And the reason I say that is

683
01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:35.400
because what I think happens is with
the military is you have documents, right,

684
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:40.199
and remember this is happened thirteen years
ago, So those documents get archives

685
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:45.000
somewhere, right, and they just
don't want to have to deal with trying

686
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:52.199
to dig up these documents. And
they may not even if they worked harder,

687
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:55.440
they might still not get the documents
because these documents could have been classified,

688
01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:00.599
or they could have been shipped to
some special location you know, who

689
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:06.239
knows. But at any rate,
here was the neat part. So the

690
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:13.480
JAG guys call make some phone calls
down to the one of the Marine groups

691
01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:19.920
that was involved in this, and
they send me back the emails of their

692
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:27.559
conversations with these Marines officers. So
one of the neat ones was a This

693
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:32.440
was a Marine lieutenant colonel and he's
replying back to a JAG officer who's saying,

694
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:37.199
you know, we've got this Foyer
request. Do you guys have any

695
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:44.760
or know of any information on this? And this lieutenant colonel goes tic TACs.

696
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:50.519
Oh yeah, I know about tic
TACs and he goes, he says,

697
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:53.519
he goes, uh, there were
a bunch of officers involved with this,

698
01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:58.880
and officer X an officer. Y, I've got their names, but

699
01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:02.599
I don't want to say them.
You know, I'm not going to mention

700
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:08.599
their names. He goes offer officer
X an officer why they saw the video?

701
01:04:10.119 --> 01:04:14.880
And so, you know, I
was like, wow, why did

702
01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:17.519
the JAG guys send me this?
You know, And I'm just thinking,

703
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:24.360
well, either number one, they
just didn't realize what they were sending me,

704
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:30.920
or two, maybe they just thought
this is really interesting themselves and maybe

705
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:35.239
we'll give him a bone and see
if he can get some more information or

706
01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:41.639
something. So that was interesting.
And then I got another They sent me

707
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:45.800
another email, and this was from
a major in the Marines. And this

708
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:50.519
major goes he said, well,
we don't have these documents anymore, but

709
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:56.320
these documents would have been archived,
and they said you should be able to

710
01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:00.719
get a point of contact who can
help you find these doc documents in the

711
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:05.159
archives. Wow. So it's you
know, so it's like, okay,

712
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:11.760
so now I'll appeal. The appeal
right is too and I'm in the process

713
01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:15.960
of writing up the second appeal now
based on that information because he said they

714
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:18.599
should be able to find him exactly
they should be able to find them.

715
01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:24.199
And in the other email, bad
sin Make tells me this event occurred.

716
01:05:24.519 --> 01:05:28.639
This is a real event. You
know. What's funny is you know I've

717
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.360
ran across this before too, where
you know, Okay, you're a UFO

718
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:35.679
guy and luckily typically and you're probably
the same because you come across as grounded.

719
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:39.800
You're able to build somewhat of a
rapport with the person you're working with

720
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:43.119
if you can talk to them directly
or even online. You can a bit

721
01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:46.760
by the way you approach them,
and you can tell there says, oh,

722
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:50.800
it's you know, a UFO guy
with a UFO request. But though

723
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:55.800
if they come back with something interesting, it seems with some of these people

724
01:05:56.199 --> 01:06:00.880
it's the first time they've considered UFOs, I mean exactly. Yeah, So

725
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.079
it's like they so they're just as
shocked as you are that early crap.

726
01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:09.159
This guy. These guys are taking
it serious. Yeah, And I'm in

727
01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:11.920
the back of my mind, I'm
like, I wish I could sit down

728
01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:15.119
with these JAG guys just out of
curiosity, because I bet they're going,

729
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:18.280
Wow, this is really weird.
But what did happen on November fourteenth?

730
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:21.920
I think they would like to know
also mm hmm. You know, but

731
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:26.920
at the same time, they're not
going to push it too hard because that's

732
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:30.079
not their job, right, Yeah, They've got their jobs to do.

733
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:36.280
So that is really really fascinating because
it shows too that this was a big

734
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:42.280
deal to these guys that they still
remember it. Oh yeah, it's like

735
01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:46.760
I think it's embedded in your memory. Mm hmm. So hopefully that video

736
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:53.760
does come out, And do you
have hope in your experience? Do you

737
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:59.199
think that video is around and you
think there's hope to get it? Well,

738
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:00.840
like I said, there's one that's
leaked on the internet, but whether

739
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:06.039
or not that is truly the original
video, I don't know. So in

740
01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:12.079
terms of getting it, the only
way I think that we can have success.

741
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:15.239
And I talked to Chris Mellen.
This was his suggestion. I like

742
01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:20.239
the idea. And this is what
I'm doing on a face, you know,

743
01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:27.960
on the Facebook site for the Scientific
Coalition for Youthology, which has a

744
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:33.320
public Facebook site, is I'm putting
these stories there. And what I'm going

745
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:38.519
to ask when I get to the
end of these stories I've been putting on

746
01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:45.480
the Facebook site. Is for individuals
who feel that there's some likelihood this case

747
01:07:45.559 --> 01:07:54.920
is real to contact their congressman and
the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee and ask that

748
01:07:55.079 --> 01:08:01.719
they request a debriefing from the Navy
on this case. Now that debreaking will

749
01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:08.639
be a have to be done in
secret, right, that that won't be

750
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:15.400
something that would be a public debreefing. But once those congressmen start hearing the

751
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:17.479
case, I think, you know, they will start asking more and more

752
01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:23.840
questions that I think it would eventually
come out. That's exciting. Of course,

753
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:26.720
who comes to mind. I'm here
in Arizona is John McCain. And

754
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:32.079
it almost feels like John McKean is
he knows his times limited, and he's

755
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:40.640
it seems like that has given him
him some more bravados and more Uh.

756
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:45.880
He's kind of has Sarah Payla put
it going rogue again in that he's doing

757
01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:50.000
his own thing. He's doing what's
important to him absolutely and in the nice

758
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:58.239
thing, Alejandro is guess who is
the head of the Senate Armed Services comedian,

759
01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:01.479
right, it's John McCain. So
it's and this is how those things

760
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:04.920
work. It's got to be a
perfect storm type of situation, right,

761
01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:12.239
and he's an ex Navy pilot,
So if we can just somehow get him

762
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:18.640
to review the documents, I think
it will ring truth for him. Well,

763
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:24.960
it's an exciting case and another example
of some work very well done on

764
01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:30.239
your part, so really really interesting
stuff. Now we're almost out of time,

765
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:35.560
so I guess in this last minute
you mentioned SCU So you used to

766
01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:40.880
be with Muffan. You are like
the director of research. That's where we

767
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.880
first really interacted the most was when
we were directors together there and then you

768
01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:50.279
had the Scientific Board. But now
you're working with this Scientific Coalition for Ufology.

769
01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:55.600
They're the guys who did the Homeland
Security investigation, or I should say

770
01:09:55.640 --> 01:09:59.039
you or we because I'm a part
of the group. I didn't do the

771
01:09:59.119 --> 01:10:03.399
investigation you all did or some of
the others. But and so that's expanding,

772
01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:10.760
and that's kind of where a lot
of your work is being done is

773
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.479
with this new Scientific Coalition for Ufology. Right, That's that's correct. So

774
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:24.920
that's kind of a new group where
the members are mostly either investigators, you

775
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:29.880
know, out of either the military
or law enforcement, or the members are

776
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:35.119
have science backgrounds. So we have
a lot of chemist, geologists and physicists

777
01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:40.880
that are part of this group.
I think we have almost twenty five people

778
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:44.640
in the group currently. Yeah,
so cool stuff. So, and we're

779
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:51.479
working closely with like UFO Data and
KUFOS, the group that Jal and Heinek

780
01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:59.199
started up, and and others because
we all have like you and I have

781
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:02.800
both worked with the Chilean government people
people. You've worked a lot with the

782
01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:09.119
people in France. So yeah,
high hopes and a lot of great people

783
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:12.880
who are doing real work in the
group. So it's exciting and we'll be

784
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:16.680
sharing more information this a little later
this week on the group. Yes,

785
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:21.680
I'm looking forward to that. Well, thank you once again for coming on

786
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:29.600
the show. Fascinating Steph and thanks
again. Yeah, great talking to you

787
01:11:29.640 --> 01:11:32.319
as always, Alijandro, have a
great week. Thank you so much to

788
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:36.960
Robert Pale for being on the show
again. That was great. He's always

789
01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:43.119
here to share wonderful information. And
there actually is some news. So Jeremy

790
01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:48.680
Corbell interestingly enough just posted that he
confirmed that one of the videos that was

791
01:11:48.760 --> 01:11:55.760
leaked that Robert was referring to of
that tic TAC object was confirmed that it's

792
01:11:55.840 --> 01:12:00.039
real. So he's got this video
up at his site extra extraordinary. Believes

793
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:04.479
you probably remember that from when he
was on the show recently. But I'll

794
01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:08.960
also put that up on my Facebook
so you all can see that and I'll

795
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:13.199
tweet it. So really really interesting
stuff and you can see, you know,

796
01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:15.680
the tic tac shape and that.
But thank you to Robert for being

797
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:21.279
on the show and sharing his information. An excellent researcher. I highly recommend

798
01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:25.680
everything that he works on. Go
find that UFO and Governments. I think

799
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:29.560
you can find it on Amazon,
but you can google it and find that

800
01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:34.800
book. A ton a ton of
information in that book regarding UFOs. And

801
01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:41.920
also he referred to the Scientific Coalition
for Ufology. Like I said, we're

802
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:45.199
going to have more up on that
later this week at Openminds dot tv.

803
01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:50.119
But I'll put the link there on
his page for that. It's explore SCU

804
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:55.760
dot org. Another great organization that's
going to be doing some really good work

805
01:12:56.079 --> 01:13:00.159
here in the near future. So
good stuff. I want to think mart

806
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:02.760
and Willis from Podcast UFO for joining
us at the beginning of the show.

807
01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:09.319
I want to thank Caleb Hanks and
Systematics for the music during the show.

808
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:15.800
You can see more about Caleb Hanks
at the UFO Radio website and more about

809
01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:19.479
his work UFO Congress. We have
more speakers listed, really really cool stuff.

810
01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:25.600
We're super excited about that. And
remember at the UFO Congress on Demand

811
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:30.199
video page, we are posting videos
from the lectures that you can go for

812
01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:35.159
just a few dollars a month and
watch tons and tons of incredible lectures,

813
01:13:35.439 --> 01:13:40.760
including from people like Robert Powell,
Jeremy Leslie Kaine, who we had on

814
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:45.000
the show last week. Really really
good stuff. And as usual, we're

815
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:48.920
going to have rare appearances from people
that you probably won't see anywhere else.

816
01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:55.199
Luckily, we have a lot of
great friends and a lot of great associations,

817
01:13:55.520 --> 01:13:59.359
so we're able to bring speakers that
others aren't. So check it out

818
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:02.960
at UFO Congress dot com. Otherwise, I'll talk to you next week.

819
01:14:03.439 --> 01:15:00.239
Until then, Adios, Move Churches, Mos