Hello, and welcome to Open Mind JOFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Goofy. Willis me. Yeah,
you're you're being kind of goofy this morning. See look wow uh yeah
uh, I like that about myself. Yeah, that's a good thing by
far. Yeah. I don't want to take life seriously at all anymore.
That's it. I'm done. Really, is there something recently that has pushed
you to this? Aliens are here? Oh wow? And what gave you
that revelation? Well? I also heard that a certain gentleman that I can
probably just tell you this without identifying him, is now stating that there are
beings inside the sun? Have you heard that one? That? What's that
song that reminds me of? This song? Is that children of the Sun,
Children of the Sun, something like that. And the people that you
know, like follow him are like okay with that? Really that's strange.
Yeah. See, I didn't say you were going to give that something like
that was going to be your motivation, because if that truly does convince you,
then I think you've got a problem. That that's that's You're weird.
Oh oh I've got problems. Yeah, no, but to be honest,
one of the most compelling people to discuss, you know, possible alien visitors
was when your guests, your last guest, the Aerial School witness, I
know, how so long. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of feedback,
more than I've ever gotten for any show I've ever done since I've started.
Yeah. Well, we had you know, Emily Trim and other witness at
our conference. You were there, I think, right, yes, I
was. It was very emotional. It was actually really good. Yeah,
that was amazing. So you know, when they these guys were children having
this strange experience where they see a creature and then now being older, they
can just I guess articulated a bit more. But uh, it's just it's
just so fascinating. Yeah. And last week's the guest I had on my
show, semmer CIDK. I'm telling you, she was so well spoken,
and I've, like I said, I've had never had so much feedback from
someone being on my show. And you know, by the time you get
done listening to her, it's like, wow, you know, I am
totally convinced that, you know, what she's saying is true. How cool?
That's really cool. Interesting. So my show today we should probably get
into And of course we talked a lot about Tom DeLong and stuff, but
one of the cases in that press conference was about this USS nimic, this
Navy case. And one of the experts on that case, or at least
someone who's investigated that a lot, is Robert Powell. Good friend. I've
had him on the show a few times before because he's so credible and interesting
and he's done some cool stuff. So he and I are discussing that Nimetz
case and some other stuff on the show today. Wow. I really like
Robert. He's really, really, very scientific, and he's in person,
down to earth guy, and he's done some really cool stuff in relation to
this case. Really, I'm really excited to listen. Yeah, you should
be, Oh, you should be. Don't make me goofy. It's funny
because you know, I can't help but help, but be goofy. And
maybe that's why we get along because you're goofy too. But it's sometimes when
the topics are serious, you know, like last time was Leslie Kane and
this time it's Robert, and it's interesting stuff. You know, there's a
tinge of guilt because I know some of them would like us to get to
the serious stuff and maybe like to skip the goofy, but they can fast
forward. But I just you know what, I couldn not be goofy even
if I tried really hard. All right, So Goofy the Goofy UFO show.
So anyway, we don't get too goofy though we have fun, but
we of course cover some very serious stuff, which is why you're here.
Because you are the UFO news man. I'm you're supposed to bring us some
good UFO news every week, and I hope that you have something today.
I am coming at you here from the state of Maine. I have this
great story. Nice well, I forget how the announcers voice. I can't
always do that too well. But anyway, I love love this the story.
This is Star Trek's creators Sun discuss the UFOs and Aliens, and that
is Gene Roddenberry's son Eugene. Wow At what a great video that is.
And I'm glad you liked it. I really do. And that was by
Jeremy Corbel. I believe actually this interview and some of the things he says
is he's very intelligent. By the way, you can tell right away very
well spoken, and he's you know, basically saying, you know that he
believes that there is life on other planets and that he helps us super and
evolved and intelligent and have chosen not to interfere with us. That's what he
basically believes. That he doesn't think they're going to interfere with us. When
when asked if he was afraid, also, I love this question. If
you had one thing to say to an alien, what would you say?
And he basically says, how did they get where they are today, assuming
of course that they are more advanced than us? And you know, he
wanted to know this because it gives us hope that we could also evolve one
day as well, you know, similar. But it's a great interview.
I hope the listeners check it out. And it's uh was posted the other
day and right on Openminds dot TV. I'm glad you liked it because I
liked it too. It's fun. You know, a lot of us,
of course, are Star Trek fans, and it's always hit or miss when
you post anything about a celebrity, because there are those celebrity haters out there
who love to say, what do we care about? What? They have
to say. But you know, I think that especially how this guy has
lived with Star Trek his entire life and had aliens part of his life,
I think that makes it really interesting. And he's very nice, and he's
very encouraging, like he's saying, you know, UFO guys, you know,
get out there and do it. And so that was really cool.
I did like that video, and so that's why I was really excited to
kind of summarize it and post it. And he also says, you know,
if just one of the UFO sightings, and there are so many,
you know, they have to you know, at least one of them has
to be real. And if that's real, then you know that's this is
big. It really means something. Mm hmm. Yeah. So, and
also I think Star Trek, you know, whether people like it or not,
is very very It has been a very important thing because it's actually encouraged
so many scientists or people to look into space. And you know, I
heard I watched a documentary and on that and Star Trek is big. It's
really big in a lot of people's pasts and have encouraged them to, you
know, instead of going to something else, you know, going into say
astrophysics or something like that. You know exactly astronomy, Yeah, exactly,
which makes it really important. And you know what I always find fascinating too,
And I often ask the directors and writers that I interview, some of
which you know people have heard actually a couple of times, probably on the
show. Is it seems that every well I think maybe you and I have
talked about that, but every version of the future that is portrayed, especially
the distant future, always includes aliens. Hmm. Wow. Yeah, and
so it almost seems like it's this subconscious like, uh, expectation that we
all have for the future. I think it's pretty realistic myself. Actually.
So another cool thing this was really neat is uh And I guess we didn't
talk about this because you were you were surprised when you saw it posted,
and I thought we had talked about it, but I guess not. It
is Newsweek, this special edition that's out right now, Life Beyond Earth,
question Mark the mis to find the Answer. So you're like, Okay,
it's Newsweek this it's going to have some great articles about NASA and astrobiology and
how they're looking for microbes in space or something. But you open up the
pages and you see a bunch of UFO weirdos like me. That's right.
So they covered a lot of actual weirdos. I'm kidding, but a UFO
research, they covered, abduction, they covered. Actually, what was impressive
is they covered a lot of topics. They only touched on a lot of
them, but they covered a lot of topics, mostly about UFO research and
alien abduction and stuff like this, mixed in with some stories like you would
expect the NASA stories, the set SETI stories and stuff like that. But
they treated them all very well across the board, and it was so cool
that they did that, you know, mixed up these stories and took it
all very seriously because of course, the researchers they covered take it all very
seriously, and many of whom are very very interesting and I think have you
know, interesting things to share. So it was a lot of fun.
It was really cool. People can go to their grocery store. If you
can't find it at your grocery store, then you can go to Barnes and
Noble or something and they'll have it there. But I've found it in the
grocery stores out here. The Newsweek special edition just on the newsstands Life Beyond
Earth, and at one of the last pages they recommend a few books and
they recommend this podcast. I know. I couldn't believe it. How cool
is that? Wow? That is amazing with your logo and everything, talk
about free advertising, the logo and everything, and your subtitle that you put
in there is Newsweek's special edition covers UFOs and the search for Aliens in a
Pod of Light. And that's just exactly what it is. Which is so
good to see something like that. Yeah and weird. Huh. Yeah,
it's I would have never expected it. Actually, definitely a very pleasure.
Have you been able to pick it up yet? I have not, but
I'm going to get down to Boston in a couple of days and pick one
up. I'm in the main Woods, you know. So here's a story
that I haven't covered. I didn't even post it in my headlines, but
I want to talk about it here on the show because it's so funny,
and that is this guy. There's a ranch out here that is supposedly this
you know, UFO ranch type of thing and where there's aliens and stuff like
that. And I'm going to bring up this story and one of the reasons
I didn't cover it or anything is because it is a U. K.
Tabloid story, and for the most part, I haven't been covering those,
even though you and I have been actually speaking more positively of these people as
of late, because they've done some a few kind of interesting stories here and
there. But here it is. So it's in the Daily Mail, of
course, you know they've got all of their racy stuff there. But and
people won't ask me about this guy. And you've probably heard the name John
Edmonds. People do they ask you about this doesn't sound familiar? Okay,
So he's got this ranch out here in Buckeye where he said he's like slain
eighteen aliens with a Samurai sword because they keep harassing him. And it used
to be one. See my girlfriend Karen, she actually went out there to
investigate and meet the guy. And back then, you know, his claims
were totally different because they're made up goofy stuff, unfortunately, and people believe
the guy and it's sad that he lies and everything, but obviously he is.
So it used to be one alien, but now I guess he told
the Daily Mail he's killed eighteen of them because for twenty years, they've been
attacking him at his ranch and his wife Joyce. So his wife Joyce when
of course she when my girlfriend went out there and she's thinking of writing a
story. I hope she does. I'd love to post it on open Minds
where she shares her experience. You know, Joyce had said that she didn't
remember anything or happening to her, but now she tells the Daily Mail that
she was molested by an alien in her sleep. But one of the reasons
his story is up is they're trying to sell their ranch for five million dollars
and their goofy alien story has gotten some press lately. So originally they listed
their property for one million dollars, but they say because of their Internet and
TV fame as of Light, they raised the price to five million dollars.
Now does this include the eighteen alien carcasses? Well, I guess we would
find out, because if you would be able to find out is the alien
are the alien experiences due to the location or them personally? And you know
what if this was real and then they leave and they find out, you
know, they get an apartment, but they still have all these aliens attacking
their apartment because it's them and not the property. Well, you know,
he started it. He's slain the alien to begin with, mm hmm.
But yeah, it's funny because Karen had gone out there where it was after
he had slain an alien, and you know, there was there's no evidence
he could point to, but he provided a picture to them of his samurai
sword in like this what looks like a kind of a pool of blood or
something. Yeah, not to my girlfriend back there, but now they seem
to have this as or as they did didn't have it before, and uh
so it's kind of funny, this samurai sword. They feel like they've been
using really wild, crazy goofrey stories and it's kind of big out here because
people will say, have you been out there? You know, have you
gotten into it? And of course, as my listeners would know, this
is not something I would really take seriously to begin with, unless there was
some reason to. But yeah, really really wild stuff, so people can
might run across that story. Now, realistically, did he actually when he's
he's slain these aliens? If he actually did, wouldn't he like be pretty
excited to show a body of a real slain alien to someone I don't know
what he says he does with the bodies. Wow. So she says,
I Karen here, and she said he told her that they disappear. Of
course they do. Yeah yeah, that's yeah, kind of like the movie.
That makes sense. Yeah yeah, but I guess the blood used to
disappear, but apparently it's not disappearing anymore. Well, yeah, after you
get up you know, over sixteen aliens, it doesn't disappear anymore. Yeah,
probably. Yeah, coating and all that must be. Wow, pretty
funny, pretty crazy stuff. So people are going to run across this.
And you know, for those of you who have been wondering if I take
John Edmond's case seriously, because I get asked that occasionally and I do share
that, I do not take it seriously. And yeah, the story's changed,
and for five million dollars you can buy his ranch. But I have
a feeling being in the real estate market myself. And when I told you
know, Karen, my girlfriend who does real estate with me, she gets
bummed when people don't use her at that for real estate. And I was
like, you're going to be bummed because your buddy, John Edmonds is not
only using you to list his estate, and he's asking for five million dollars,
which is not going to get anyway. Well, you know, just
having a little bit of knowledge in real estate, I can tell you that,
you know, even it has to be someone like an a celebrity before
or a real historic home before it's going to make any difference in price.
Yeah. By the way, were these aliens possibly from the sun? Just
trying to tie this all in together? Children of this? Uh? I
heard they're pretty hot too? Yeah, sorry, that's cute. Yeah,
sorry, Yeah, a little joke. I am goofy, so I had
to think of something that was a goofy joke, that's for sure. Yeah,
joke should be not that I'm aware of. I do not believe that's
the case, even though it is so hot here it feels like you're living
in the sun. I do believe they're from the sun. Yeah, isn't
that weird? But you know, getting back to the people in the sun
thing, because there is I don't know. It's difficult because if the person
is who I think it is, he keeps making these really bombastic claims that
are really wild and out there, and some of them, for instance,
there's a guy who follows him and says, oh you know, he got
another UFO photo and deid to give it away over mcdeial Air Force Base.
They're balloons, you know, and if these pictures would have been posted,
like to our UFO newsgroup, we would have all said it's a balloon.
In one case it was long and skinny. It was totally one of those
solar balloons. And so they're balloons. And actually mcdeal Air Force Base.
I think we talked about this, wrote a story and made fun of the
whole thing because they somehow ran across that he was doing this, so they
posted something on the website making fun of it. And I don't know,
there are groups, there's people like him and others and their followers just really
throw discernment out the window exactly right. Yeah, it's like they're almost like
they're grasping for something. You know. It's really psychologically difficult to understand it
is until you just put it in the realm of religion. And because you
know, a lot of religions are very similar, a lot of new religions
pop up. That's why I did that talk about UFOs and religions at the
conference, and it's one of them. I like, because the whole belief
thing is intertwined. And you know, a lot of people will say,
I don't like this, I believe I know. Well, no, you
do believe, and we do believe, and we can't just I think it's
dangerous for us to make blanket statements like that. You may know because you've
witnessed something, and maybe you do know because of your experiences, but the
terminology of belief is still accurate because, for instance, if you ask a
scientist about dark matter, they would need to say I believe dark matter is
real or I believe it's not. It's still the proper terminology dark matter is
when I bring up because we can't prove there is such a thing as dark
matter. We can prove that there's something similar something going on, but dark
matter might not be what's causing these observed anomalies or phenomena, and so,
yeah, believe it is a big deal. We all believe different things,
and we all may be right or wrong. But yeah, when I guess
your beliefs get so counter to reality where you just kind of throw it,
throw it out the window and you want to call a balloon an alien spacecraft
from the sun or something. So what airbase did you say this was where
it is located mcdeial mcdeal's kind of a big deal. It's where they make
But is that last Vegas? No, it is in Florida. Sorry,
I was stalling because I was looking it up. So I was stalling with
those terrible jokes and puns and stuff while I was trying to look up where
it was. Tampa in Florida. Yeah, okay, right, all right,
yeah, how about that? Yeah? Well, interesting stuff. But
otherwise let's see, uh for the UFO news that is out there, there
is some interesting stuff. There have been some little events going on here and
there. And you know what's funny, Travis always gets in the news,
Travis Walton so often. And he was just out somewhere showing off his movie.
And it is so funny that they cover him so often, right,
I mean, isn't he in the newsweek article as well? Yeah, he
is in the newsweek as well. But he's always out there somewhere. I
mean, he's traveling doing talks in so many places that the local news will
often write a little story about a UFO guy coming. And that's how he
gets in the news so much. And all these local papers and everything.
Hm Wow. But you know what, we haven't even announced this. We're
gonna have some really cool Travis Walton stuff. Travis Walton, it's kind of
a recurring thing at the UFO Congress, one of very few, but it's
partially because we know him so well and he's out here in Arizona. And
you know, Karen, my girlfriend, did run his fortieth anniversary event,
and she did a ton of work in kind of unearthing a lot of witnesses
no one has ever talked to before, and so we're going to be bringing
one of or two of those to the conference. One of those is the
police officer that the guy's first talk to, and this guy's awesome, straight
shooter, pretty elderly he is, he is, Yeah, so this will
be fun. And then also Travis's brother and he shares what it was like
for the family and they have some interesting stories. So we're out of time,
but yeah, that's going to be really cool. But thanks for joining
us for the news again, buddy, Yeah, you bet you. And
let's go ahead. After this short break, we'll be speaking with Robert Powell.
Welcome back. You're listening to Open Mind UFO Radio and I am here
once again. With Robert Powell. Hi, alijndro It's good to talk to
you again. Yeah, it's good to have you back your frequent guests.
But I'm a big admirer of your work. Well. Thanks. We'll be
talking about this USS Nimics project, and the reason we're talking about this is
because Tom DeLong, you know, made this announcement for this organization he's putting
together. And although Tom DeLong has a lot of you know, wild kind
of ideas that he's talked about, the group he's put together are people who
have worked in the government and what they've said said in that press conference or
what they've come out with some of it which is really useful to us and
new and different in particular this DoD project to look at unknowns, but it's
not so different than the story the documents have put together, like the documents
you collected for the book, right right. I think there are some similarities
there. And I do know two of the individuals on Tom's group, Chris
Mellen and how put Off, and I have a lot of respect for both
of those gentlemen, and they both have what I consider a very conservative view
of the UFO phenomenon, which is similar similar to my view on the topic.
Well, what I found interesting and speaking with you know j one of
the guys also in the group who had a career in the CIA. Of
course, Tom DeLong. The scenario that he paints is, like I said,
very out there, with abductions and aliens and all of these things being
included. However, on the flip side, the picture that is painted by
these gentlemen who were in the government, it's much different, and it kind
of paints the picture a picture John Alexander often puts forth, I think that
your work in the book kind of goes here, and it's something that I
think that is accurate as well, you know, other governments, it's somewhat
similar in that they don't know a whole lot. They know there's a mystery
and that they can't solve, but otherwise it doesn't seem like they know a
whole lot more than that, right, And that's what I was trying to
suggest when I was saying using the term conservative for how Chris Mellan and how
put off, I mean how I've talked to in person several times, and
Chris I've talked on the phone with him over the course of two to three
years, usually an hour at a time. So I'm very familiar with how
they see the phenomenon. And it's just like you explained, Alejandro. I
mean, it's no one knows a lot about it other than it physically exists
and it appears to be intelligently controlled. But other than that, there's not
a lot of information in terms of, you know, what's the origin.
You know, is there something in the UFO or is it unoccupied? Is
it? I mean, clearly it rad radar bounces off of it, But
is it a you know, a physical entity that exists in our I'll just
use the term space time or is it something that's you know, not exactly
here. I mean, that's all in there. I'm speculating, right,
So no one, no one really knows much about it. So I'm when
people start talking about aliens in the government, I'm just not there. I
just see it for the information that we have, right, and I think
that's important to build on the information that we have. And that's what's an
interesting dynamic about this whole thing is that you have Tom DeLong and and you
know, I really like Tom. He's a nice guy. He's an interesting
guy. Here, He's passionate about this field, and I think personally,
you know, getting this group of people together that he got to group get
together was very very important, and getting us in contact with these people who
I think they can help us further our work. But what he's saying is
just so much different than what the other guys are saying that it's kind of
like, at least for me, a lot of people kind of get up
in arms about what Tom DeLonge is saying and doing, But for me,
we can't really do much with what Tom's version of this whole phenomena is because
he's not really providing any substance to back up a lot of the more wild
kind of claims. Whereas with this group of guys he's put together, these
are guys who were in the government, who like us, have a genuine
interest in looking at this phenomena in an incredible way and right and are kind
of in the same place as start off with, which is kind of just
like this scenario we just talked about, right, and I could understand people's
concerns, right, I mean, if I did not know how, and
I did not know Chris and I had first seen this, right, and
mostly you're hearing what Tom is saying, I would have been very skeptical of
the entire thing. But because I do know Chris and how and know that
those guys are very conservative scientifically, especially how scientifically based individuals, I know
that their intent is good. I'm not as familiar, you know, with
the other guys that are on the stage, Lou and Jay, so I
can't comment one way or another, but I'm open to it because of what
I know of Chris and how m Were you surprised by Lou Elizondo's claims of
this unidentified threat project he was on in the d O D. Yeah,
I was somewhat surprised by that, and I would like to hear more information
about it, because I guess my thoughts on this is if he has right
he when he left the d D. I'm sure he had non disclosure agreements
he had to sign and government oaths that he had to sign, so he
can probably release information that is not classified. But I don't see how he
can release information that is classified. So to that extent, I'm thinking,
Okay, well, how does he establish the UFOs are real? Now?
When I say UFOs are real in my mind and there's no doubt that they're
real because I've studied, you know, hundreds of cases and it becomes just
amountain of evidence. It tells me that. But if you're talking to the
public and you're trying to establish the UFOs are real, and you're going to
do it one case for example, and you're going to have photographs and videos
where there's no doubt about it, well, I'm just not sure how he
could do that with information that's unclassified. But my view here as time will
tell. So if he can do it, then I'm all for it.
So I'm willing to wait and see what can he present. What I think
is this scenario, and you can tell me if you think differently, is
that he worked at this capacity looking at these unknowns, then he personally came
to the conclusion that some of these are technology that are beyond ours and that
now that he has left knows of material that can be declassified and shared publicly
that perhaps he feels bolsters his case, but that it's perhaps not an official
stance of this organization, right right, I think what you just said I
can agree with. I just don't know based on that, how can he
convince the majority of the public that you know, UFOs are definitely real.
That's what's going to be exciting because hopefully we'll be He's going to be sharing
material apparently, and hopefully it seems like this will be stuff we haven't seen
before, perhaps nobody in the public has seen. So that's because hopefully it's
very compelling that I think that's really exciting. And just to clarify what I
said there for your audience, there are a good number of people with science
backgrounds that I know that have studied the topic in detail. Right, They've
reviewed hundreds of cases, and after reviewing all those, there's no doubt I
believe in most of these people's mind that the UFO phenomenon is real. But
it's if you follow what I'm saying, it's not like you can just throw
out one case and nail it down. It's more of studying the history of
the phenomenon in all these hundreds of cases that have radar data, visual data,
radar and visual data together in combination. That makes you know that it's
a physically real phenomen I'm gonna that's intelligently controlled. Beyond that, that's all
we know, right right, And he seems to be careful to not go
any further than that either. Oh that's Lou that you're talking about. Yes,
okay, Yeah, And you know when I talked I talked to Chris
and he did indicate that in the next few weeks they should be releasing some
more interesting information. So I'm looking forward to that, and I'm willing to
give them a chance to see what they have. Yeah, exactly. And
I guess you know a lot of people keep calling this Tom DeLong and Tom
DeLong, Tom DeLong, you know, over and over again. And Tom
was a facilitator of all of this, but you know, really Tom's pieces
are not when I'm most interested in currently. I'm more interested what I see
is kind of something totally separate, which is this to the Stars Academy with
how put Off and Chris Mellan and Lou and all these guys were talking about
because they're similar to us. I mean, there are guys with a passion
for this phenomenon who are looking to, you know, figure it out.
Yeah, I agree with you completely. I mean, with all due respect
to Tom DeLong, that's his Part's not the part that interests me. It's
what the other guys can provide that's of interest. To me. So one
of the things that they provided, and this was a cool part of it
too, especially given who Chris Mellan is, and maybe we should start off
with that was this Nimtz case that he talked about, which was one of
the more exciting parts of the press conference. But Chris, so, Chris
mellen first kind of came out about UFOs when he joined this UFO Data organization,
which now you're a part of. You can describe what that organization is.
Yeah, The UFO Data program is a program whose goal is to develop
basically camera systems that use gratings on the camera lens so that you can get
a spectrum of light, so that if you detect an object at night,
the spectrum of that object tells you a lot more than just a light on
a photograph screen. With the spectra, you can determine the different wavelengths that
are being omitted and whether or not the light from the object matches a known
light such as a halogen light or an aircraft light, etc. So that's
kind of what UFO Data is all about, is developing a system that can
capture real time spectral information and hopefully optical information on unnums. Was the first
time you heard about Chris Mellen working on all of this, well, I
think the first time I talked to Chris was probably two or three years ago.
But I can tell you something interest interesting on the case that he mentioned,
which happened in November of two thousand and four. I probably talked to
Chris four months ago Alejandro on this case, because I've been working the case
over a year, and when I talked to Chris four months ago, he
did not have much information on that case. I mean, he was aware
of it, and he had indicated that he knew that there were files in
the government on it, but he didn't have any details like you heard him
give at the press conference. So that means somewhere in the last four months,
one of the guys on the team gave Chris it's some very interesting information
on that case. Some of the comments he made in the press conference on
the case are his information that I was not aware of yet. And I've
been working this case since gosh June of last year, and I've submitted over
nine foyas. I've already done two appeals on the foyas that were denied,
So I've got a lot of interesting information on the case some information that he
did not reveal. But like I said, the interesting thing is that he
has gotten this information from someone else. So to me, that's a positive,
right, that means there is someone on the team that has access to
some good information. What's interesting about Chris, of course having access to information
is his background, not only of course, as he worked in that and
the Department of Defense and he was assesstant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence for a
period of time. So yeah, so a big, big deal. And
beyond that, his background is the Mellon family, which is kind of like
the Rockefeller family. I mean, Carnegie Mellon. Is there name Mellon banking?
Uh So he comes from a very interesting background, which I'm sure is
going to add to the conspiracy. You know, theories that will begin to
that are probably already out there. I haven't seen much, but I'm sure
there can. There will always be those, but you know, I'm When
I first talked to Chris a couple of years ago, I asked his view
on the UFO phenomenon, and it was the same as mine. He I
mean, basically, he said he feels that, you know, the government
knows that it's real, that it exists, but other than that, he
doesn't feel that they know much more than what most of us who have researched
the topic in depth know about it. Mm hmm. And that's what Jay
had told me, which was the other guy who had a career in the
CIA. And what's interesting is Rockefeller was into UFOs, one of the Rockefellers,
I should say Rockefeller. Of course is many people, so you can't
just say Rockefeller, but Lawrence Rockefeller was into the paranormal, did a lot
of funding of UFO projects and things, and he had a similar stance.
He had access to a lot of people. But you know, most of
his research was based off of the same sort of documents that you and I
have looked at, so like the Condon Report, let's say, or the
French report that that was, I mean, I can't remember the name right
now, but some of these other great UFO reports that have been put together,
and then he put together his own. But it was similar situation in
that they really feel there's something to all of this, but even with all
of their connections, they don't necessarily or at least have not discovered any sort
of secret, super secret MG twelve type of organization in the government, right,
And the way I look at it is I believe that there are times
the government hides information, right, and that there's things the government knows that
they don't tell the public. Just like you said, I don't believe that
there is a government organization that, through time has continued to research it.
Take for example, this case from November two thousand and four. I know
those documents exist, and I know that the government has probably classified them and
put them somewhere right, But other than having done that, I don't think
that there's a government agency that says, Okay, we've got these documents.
Now, there was a case in nineteen fifty seven with RB forty seven Bomber,
Right, and how does this relate to that, And how does this
relate to that case that happened in Stephenville, or how does it relate to
any other case. I just don't think that there are these feelers that are
analyzing all that information. I think it's more silo based, right. It's
like, Okay, this happened to the Nimits and the US is Princeton,
let's investigate this. Okay, here's what happened. Now. This is hard
to believe let's stick this over here and we'll forget about it and go on
with our lives. I think that's how they operate. Do you think there
should be at least a Nick Pope out there? And what I mean by
that a UFO desk that the government has where they are coalescing this information.
Yeah, I would think so. I mean you were indicating that's kind of
what lou was doing. And differently, over history, there have been organizations
that did that off and on, right, I mean, that's what Project
Bluebook I supposedly was about. So I think that has been done on and
on, and you know, I argue with myself sometimes about you know,
surely there's someone out there that's that's really analyzing all this information, right,
because just from a scientific logical viewpoint, you would think, okay, there
has to be. But then the other side of me says, no,
I can't find any indication there is. It's almost like, and this is
just okay, here I'm speculating, but this is almost like, Okay,
we're the top of the totem pole. And deep inside me, I don't
want to hear anything that says we're not the top of the totem pole.
So if my subconscious hears that I'm sticking it over here and let's go on
with our life, it's almost you know what I mean, It's almost like
a societal issue that goes beyond a government that tries to hide information or an
individual. It's almost like is a human race. There is a deep barrier
to considering here. Here's a good example. Take Setting, right, which
is a scientific organization to study extraterrestrial life out in the universe. If you
ask, okay, is there extra intelligent life you know out there? And
you'll get answer from the scientists to say, yes, we believe there is
intelligent life out there. And you could ask is it more intelligent than us?
And I think you're going to get the same answer from most scientists,
right, which is yes, there is life that may be hundreds to thousands
of years more intelligent than us. Then when you ask the next question,
Okay, if that intelligent life is out there that's more intelligent than us,
who's going to find who first? But the answer clearly has got to be
the more intelligent life forms going to find the less intelligent life form first.
Right. But when you read all the science articles and everything, it's all
geared towards that it's us that finds them, right, And so when you
ask them this final question to someone, for example, in Saty, and
you say, okay, if they're much more advanced than us, then clearly
they know we're here right Just like right now with all these extra solar planets,
we're only a few decades away of knowing which of those planets in their
atmosphere have the gases to indicate that there's life. So why can't they get
here? And then, of course the answer is always well, we can't
travel at the speed of light, and therefore no one else can, so
there's no way they can get here. Yet. Last month, I just
went to a conference where you have people from NASA, the United States Air
Force, and major universities, and the topic was how can we send a
spacecraft to Alpha Centauri at twenty percent of the speed of light and get it
there in twenty years? So you see how it's like, on one hand,
we can talk about we might be able to get there, but if
you talk about a race thousands of years more advance than us being able to
get here, it's like, okay, that's taboo. We're just not even
going to entertain that thought. Yeah, that is an excellent, excellent point
because it is almost like cognitive dissonance. It's almost like you know, you
have on the one hand, they believe there's advanced civilizations out there, but
on the other hand, we're gonna find them before they find us. That
doesn't jive, that doesn't make sense, So we are it's a great place
to break. We'll come back from the break and we will talk about the
Nimtz case. But I think that's an excellent point. We're here with Robert
pall're listening to Open Mind GFO Radio. We'll take a quick break. Some
of you listening on KGr A will hear some commercials, so be sure to
patronize these lovely people who help KGRA stay on the air. And for those
of you listening to the podcast, you'll fit here a few seconds of music,
but we'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Open Mind
GUFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with
Robert Powell. Hello, Robert, I Alejandro, Well you just made some
excellent points, Thanks so much, and to kind of set the stage here.
But and and that's what's interesting even though you know, people may disagree
what they do with the information. Uh, you know. And it's one
of the things that John Alexander says, who worked in intelligence for so long
and tried to look into this, that these UFO things are hot potatoes,
and and you know he's he doesn't, you know, mix words. He
says, Essentially, the UFOs issue is dropped by the government and it shouldn't
be because out of ignorance and incompetence, and these are the sort of words
he uses that which is frustrating, especially to him and others, because it's
an important thing, especially when you have cases like the Nimetz case. So
maybe you could start off with when did this happen and where and to whom?
Okay, So the Nimetz case occurred on November fourteenth of two thousand and
four, and it happened with a carrier Battle Group eleven, which is made
up was at the time, it was made up of the USS Princeton,
which is a guided missile carrier sorry frigate, and then you have the Nimets,
and then you have F eighteen's from both the Marines and the Navy.
I think the Louisville was the submarine assigned to that carrier group, and there
are other smaller ships assigned. So this group was practicing about seventy to one
hundred miles southwest of San Diego, so just a routine, you know,
exercises. And while they're out there in the ocean, the us IS Princeton
for a number of days had been picking up on their radar some object that
was moving. It would be up at eighty thousand feet and then suddenly it's
right near the ocean surface. So it was moving vertically at a very rapid
speed. And the us IS Princeton had at that time what's called spy Dash
one radar, which was the most advanced radar that we had, and it
basically operates by scanning across all sorts of different frequencies simultaneously in order to maintain
a contact with an object. So on November fourteenth, this object shows up,
and so the Princeton first calls a marine F eighteen and when they call
the aircraft to go check this out. And when they call that, there's
also an airborne aircraft one of the kind of similar to an a wax,
but the Navy uses what they call the E two C but it's a it's
an A wax, so they're in communication with the A wax. The A
wax says, yes, he sees the target, but it kind of comes
and goes, so his radars are not picking up picking it up as well
as the Princeton. So the vector this marine F eighteen to the location.
So he's headed there, and as he's going to the location, he gets
a call from the Princeton and tells him to leave the area because they have
now contacted two F eighteens from the NIM and they're on their way. So
two super hornets are headed there. So he leaves the scene, and apparently
as he's leaving, he also sees in the water. He doesn't see the
object and the objects in the air, but in the water. He noted
that the water was crystal clear, you know, it was almost like glass.
But he sees a bubbling as if you know, a ship was sinking.
It was his best description of what it looked like. But he vectors
away because the FA teens are coming in. So the two FA teens come
in and in their conversation with the Princeton, that Princeton asked, Okay,
do you guys have anything on your radar, they reply back, no,
there is nothing on our radar at the coordinates that you're sending us to.
So meanwhile they continue towards those coordinates and as they approached it, though,
then they visually see this object. And it's not clear if there was one
or two objects, but the object is described as a tic tac. And
for your listeners, who recall those little candy tic TACs that come in a
little plastic jar, and they they're kind of a white, long elongated oval,
so that's how he described them. So the two FA teens are approaching
and as they see the tic tac, the tic tac has no wings,
has there's no method of propulsion, but the tic TAC's front begins to turn
and point towards the FA team. So the pilot considers that an aggressive maneuver.
So one FA team goes up to a higher altitude. The other F
eighteen engages the tic tac, and by engage it, he is trying to
get behind the tic tac so that it's in front of him, and so
he does some type of I'm not familiar with the maneuvers that native pilot shoes.
He uses this maneuver to try to get behind the tic tack, but
the tic tac goes behind him, is sitting behind him, and these you
know, maneuvers go on for a number of seconds, and then the tic
tac just leaves and it's either one or two tick tacks, but the tic
TACs lead the scene. The FA teens can't keep up with them because they
left so such a high rate of speed. They head back to the Nemens.
They're on their way back to the Nimens and then the Princeton calls them
and says, those targets are back exactly where they were when you first encountered
them. So the two FA teen pilots say, we do not have enough
fuel to go back and engage them, so we're going to continue to the
Neimts, and supposedly the Nimets then sends two other FA teams to that same
location. Now at this point, I don't know exactly what happens there,
and there's video taken, and my best, as far as I can put
the pieces together, is I think the video was taken by the two F
eighteens that came after the first two faighteens encountered the object. And there's a
there is an IR video that's been leaked to the internet. I've been able
to verify it is the type of video there's an F eighteen during that era
would have used. But whether or not it is actually the video, I
don't know, But that's not what's important to me. What's more important was
the description given by the pilots when all of this happened. And this descriptions
basically was released by another on a Navy blog site. So this is not
on some UFO site where I first found this information. It's on a Navy
blog site by a naval aviator who normally writes about jets. He doesn't write
about UFOs, but he does have this one story, so that's kind of
a summary of that event. And so all total, there are five Navy
assets involved. There's the nimits, the USS Princeton, a total of four
Navy F eight teens, and a Marine AT eighteen, and a Navy airborne
Electronics aircraft similar to an a wax so I. In December of last year,
I submitted nine foyas, which that's the Freedom of Information Act request which
a government organization is supposed to answer. Your request for information is long as
it's not classified, and if it is classified, they're supposed to tell you.
So I send these requests for information on all five of these naval assets,
and I send it to nine different navy and marine sites. So by
April I have received a denial from every one of those, and the denial
basically says we have no information responsive to your request. They didn't state this
is classified or anything. Basically, they just said we went and looked for
the information, we can't find any information. End of story. So then
what you're allowed to do with the for you is you're allowed to appeal it,
but you appeal it to the same organization that you first sent the request
to. It's kind of like the fox guarding the the hen house. So
I appeal it. Now the appeal goes to the at the Judge Advocate General,
which most people have heard the phrase in the Navy jags, right,
So that's that's the Judge Advocate General group, which basically are attorneys that work
in the Navy. So the very first appeal, they denied the appeal and
the reason was that as long that and they cite federal court cases, as
long as they made a reasonable attempt to search, then that is sufficient.
That's what the courts have ruled. So then I sent a second appeal,
but this time I did something a little different. I wrote an email to
the guys I sent the appeal to, because it's the same guys that got
the first appeal right. And so I said, Okay, your argument that
as long as we did a sufficient look for information sufficient, I said,
that's reasonable. But I said, in this second appeal, what I'm arguing
is, you're talking about five different naval assets that occurred on a given date,
and you're telling me that on all five naval assets you can't find any
records. And I said, whether or not a federal court judge would buy
that argument, I said, I don't know. But I said I don't
know that our congressman will buy that argument. And then I copied my congressmen
and senators on that second appeal. Okay, so guess what happens in the
second appeal. They still don't give me the documents, but they do try
to give me something right. In other words, they're wanting to give you,
give me something right. And let me let me make a note here
to your listeners. I don't think the JAG attorneys or the foyer officers you
know that search these documents for me. I don't think they're trying to hide
anything. They're just doing their job. And the reason I say that is
because what I think happens is with the military is you have documents, right,
and remember this is happened thirteen years ago, So those documents get archives
somewhere, right, and they just don't want to have to deal with trying
to dig up these documents. And they may not even if they worked harder,
they might still not get the documents because these documents could have been classified,
or they could have been shipped to some special location you know, who
knows. But at any rate, here was the neat part. So the
JAG guys call make some phone calls down to the one of the Marine groups
that was involved in this, and they send me back the emails of their
conversations with these Marines officers. So one of the neat ones was a This
was a Marine lieutenant colonel and he's replying back to a JAG officer who's saying,
you know, we've got this Foyer request. Do you guys have any
or know of any information on this? And this lieutenant colonel goes tic TACs.
Oh yeah, I know about tic TACs and he goes, he says,
he goes, uh, there were a bunch of officers involved with this,
and officer X an officer. Y, I've got their names, but
I don't want to say them. You know, I'm not going to mention
their names. He goes offer officer X an officer why they saw the video?
And so, you know, I was like, wow, why did
the JAG guys send me this? You know, And I'm just thinking,
well, either number one, they just didn't realize what they were sending me,
or two, maybe they just thought this is really interesting themselves and maybe
we'll give him a bone and see if he can get some more information or
something. So that was interesting. And then I got another They sent me
another email, and this was from a major in the Marines. And this
major goes he said, well, we don't have these documents anymore, but
these documents would have been archived, and they said you should be able to
get a point of contact who can help you find these doc documents in the
archives. Wow. So it's you know, so it's like, okay,
so now I'll appeal. The appeal right is too and I'm in the process
of writing up the second appeal now based on that information because he said they
should be able to find him exactly they should be able to find them.
And in the other email, bad sin Make tells me this event occurred.
This is a real event. You know. What's funny is you know I've
ran across this before too, where you know, Okay, you're a UFO
guy and luckily typically and you're probably the same because you come across as grounded.
You're able to build somewhat of a rapport with the person you're working with
if you can talk to them directly or even online. You can a bit
by the way you approach them, and you can tell there says, oh,
it's you know, a UFO guy with a UFO request. But though
if they come back with something interesting, it seems with some of these people
it's the first time they've considered UFOs, I mean exactly. Yeah, So
it's like they so they're just as shocked as you are that early crap.
This guy. These guys are taking it serious. Yeah, And I'm in
the back of my mind, I'm like, I wish I could sit down
with these JAG guys just out of curiosity, because I bet they're going,
Wow, this is really weird. But what did happen on November fourteenth?
I think they would like to know also mm hmm. You know, but
at the same time, they're not going to push it too hard because that's
not their job, right, Yeah, They've got their jobs to do.
So that is really really fascinating because it shows too that this was a big
deal to these guys that they still remember it. Oh yeah, it's like
I think it's embedded in your memory. Mm hmm. So hopefully that video
does come out, And do you have hope in your experience? Do you
think that video is around and you think there's hope to get it? Well,
like I said, there's one that's leaked on the internet, but whether
or not that is truly the original video, I don't know. So in
terms of getting it, the only way I think that we can have success.
And I talked to Chris Mellen. This was his suggestion. I like
the idea. And this is what I'm doing on a face, you know,
on the Facebook site for the Scientific Coalition for Youthology, which has a
public Facebook site, is I'm putting these stories there. And what I'm going
to ask when I get to the end of these stories I've been putting on
the Facebook site. Is for individuals who feel that there's some likelihood this case
is real to contact their congressman and the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee and ask that
they request a debriefing from the Navy on this case. Now that debreaking will
be a have to be done in secret, right, that that won't be
something that would be a public debreefing. But once those congressmen start hearing the
case, I think, you know, they will start asking more and more
questions that I think it would eventually come out. That's exciting. Of course,
who comes to mind. I'm here in Arizona is John McCain. And
it almost feels like John McKean is he knows his times limited, and he's
it seems like that has given him him some more bravados and more Uh.
He's kind of has Sarah Payla put it going rogue again in that he's doing
his own thing. He's doing what's important to him absolutely and in the nice
thing, Alejandro is guess who is the head of the Senate Armed Services comedian,
right, it's John McCain. So it's and this is how those things
work. It's got to be a perfect storm type of situation, right,
and he's an ex Navy pilot, So if we can just somehow get him
to review the documents, I think it will ring truth for him. Well,
it's an exciting case and another example of some work very well done on
your part, so really really interesting stuff. Now we're almost out of time,
so I guess in this last minute you mentioned SCU So you used to
be with Muffan. You are like the director of research. That's where we
first really interacted the most was when we were directors together there and then you
had the Scientific Board. But now you're working with this Scientific Coalition for Ufology.
They're the guys who did the Homeland Security investigation, or I should say
you or we because I'm a part of the group. I didn't do the
investigation you all did or some of the others. But and so that's expanding,
and that's kind of where a lot of your work is being done is
with this new Scientific Coalition for Ufology. Right, That's that's correct. So
that's kind of a new group where the members are mostly either investigators, you
know, out of either the military or law enforcement, or the members are
have science backgrounds. So we have a lot of chemist, geologists and physicists
that are part of this group. I think we have almost twenty five people
in the group currently. Yeah, so cool stuff. So, and we're
working closely with like UFO Data and KUFOS, the group that Jal and Heinek
started up, and and others because we all have like you and I have
both worked with the Chilean government people people. You've worked a lot with the
people in France. So yeah, high hopes and a lot of great people
who are doing real work in the group. So it's exciting and we'll be
sharing more information this a little later this week on the group. Yes,
I'm looking forward to that. Well, thank you once again for coming on
the show. Fascinating Steph and thanks again. Yeah, great talking to you
as always, Alijandro, have a great week. Thank you so much to
Robert Pale for being on the show again. That was great. He's always
here to share wonderful information. And there actually is some news. So Jeremy
Corbell interestingly enough just posted that he confirmed that one of the videos that was
leaked that Robert was referring to of that tic TAC object was confirmed that it's
real. So he's got this video up at his site extra extraordinary. Believes
you probably remember that from when he was on the show recently. But I'll
also put that up on my Facebook so you all can see that and I'll
tweet it. So really really interesting stuff and you can see, you know,
the tic tac shape and that. But thank you to Robert for being
on the show and sharing his information. An excellent researcher. I highly recommend
everything that he works on. Go find that UFO and Governments. I think
you can find it on Amazon, but you can google it and find that
book. A ton a ton of information in that book regarding UFOs. And
also he referred to the Scientific Coalition for Ufology. Like I said, we're
going to have more up on that later this week at Openminds dot tv.
But I'll put the link there on his page for that. It's explore SCU
dot org. Another great organization that's going to be doing some really good work
here in the near future. So good stuff. I want to think mart
and Willis from Podcast UFO for joining us at the beginning of the show.
I want to thank Caleb Hanks and Systematics for the music during the show.
You can see more about Caleb Hanks at the UFO Radio website and more about
his work UFO Congress. We have more speakers listed, really really cool stuff.
We're super excited about that. And remember at the UFO Congress on Demand
video page, we are posting videos from the lectures that you can go for
just a few dollars a month and watch tons and tons of incredible lectures,
including from people like Robert Powell, Jeremy Leslie Kaine, who we had on
the show last week. Really really good stuff. And as usual, we're
going to have rare appearances from people that you probably won't see anywhere else.
Luckily, we have a lot of great friends and a lot of great associations,
so we're able to bring speakers that others aren't. So check it out
at UFO Congress dot com. Otherwise, I'll talk to you next week.
Until then, Adios, Move Churches, Mos