Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is a UFO
news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your
host, Alejandro Roja. Ban ban Bong Bong Bong boom Bong. I love
that song. There is a guy, Systematics is his name, and he
was a listener of the show and he was around. This was at the
beginning and when it was UFO Think Tank and he gave us that audio.
He does all kinds of cool songs. He's like, use any of my
songs you want. He used to have a MySpace with his music up and
stuff, and he had a YouTube and it's all disappeared and now people are
asking me where's that music come from. That's great, man, but yeah,
the guy is not around anymore. It is really cool music. And
if you're out there, Systematic, thank you so much for letting us use
it because I love it. But you know, especially this one dude quick
calling me and asking me, I can't get you the info. Sorry,
dude. This is open Minds Radio and I am all a hundroohas. Thank
you so much for joining us and talking some UFOs with us. Well,
you're listening, but you may be talking at the radio, which is just
fine. You know, if you're driving down the road and you're like,
no, hey man, that's not real. Hey, you guys are boneheads.
That UFO is real. You know, talk to us even if we
can't hear you. It's fun. And I think somehow, on a subconscious
level, we do hear those things, you know, even if they don't
speak with their voice, and just mentally, I think somehow subconsciously your message
gets across. Uh. And you know that's great. We're all one brothers
insist us. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a great show
tonight. Our guest is Paula Harris. And I know I'm not saying that.
Right's an Italian name. Everybody says Paula, so I mostly call her
pauland she's mine with that because this Americans have a hard time saying Paola.
I think it's that like pow La Paola Harris. But anyway, she's on
the show and we're going to be talking about her Women's UFO conference that is
coming up in May. Pretty exciting. A lot of the women in her
conference have been on our show and our women that I know and ador and
they're great people, and so that'll be a lot of fun. Also,
we're going to talk about a woman she interviewed recently named Kim Arnold. She
wrote an article on her interview that's going to be an Open Minds magazine and
that's very exciting. And this is a woman who is the daughter of Kenneth
Arnold. And if you've watched a UFO documentary on television, then you know
who Kenneth Arnold is because they all start off with Kenneth Orle the beginning of
modern UFO research with his citing in nineteen forty seven, and he was a
pilot that had a sighting of a UFO and he said it looked like discs
that were skipping on water. And so some brilliant rider back then did it?
Did did it? Did it? Did? Did flying saucers seen by
Kenneth Ardold? They named him flying Saucers, even though they weren't necessarily saucer's
sake shaped. What he saw kind of more of a round horseshoe type of
thing. But one thing that we do not know that Paula was able to
uncover in this interview is that he had several sightings and I didn't know that.
I don't think anybody knew that until recently. So we're going to talk
to Paula about that. We'll talk to her about more UFO stuff because she's
always out there in Europe doing tours and involved with this whole subject. So
it's going to be a lot of fun so and I think it's something that
you're very much going to enjoy. I certainly had a good time talking to
her when we recorded this earlier so on the show. Yay. However,
before that, I do want to make a mention, of course, about
the UFO Congress. This is this little congress thing. I don't know if
I told you about this before. We're going to have this little conference out
here in the Phoenix area, in the Pashi Scottsdale area. In fact,
PGA is going to be out there next week. That's how fancy this area
is. All the richie riches, and I'm sure some of them are going
to hang out for this UFO Congress. Who wouldn't. So we're having this
cool UFO conference with lots of cool people, Stephen Greer and Whitley Strieber and
our good buddy from Factor Fake Van Hansen, my good buddies who we had
on the show recently, Bryce Zabel and Lee Spiegel, and then lots of
our other friends are going to be there. Stan Romanik, you guys saw
him last year, you loved him. He's going to be there signing books.
Paula, our guests tonight's going to be there also signing books and selling
books. So it's just going to be a lot of fun. A lot
of people are there and you can come meet and mingle and talk and so
go to Ufocongress dot com and register because time is running out. It's going
to be February in like two days, and this conference is February twenty seconds.
You really have to move quickly to make your plan, to buy your
plane tickets and figure out, you know what your in law or your parents
wherever you're going to send your kids and your dogs and stuffed so they can
be taken care of while you're gone, so you don't have long to take
take advantage of all this thing and then come to the Congress. So you
better get on the ball. People, it's going to be a lot of
fun. One of the people you're going to be able to see, there
is this extraordinary fella who follows UFO news and he writes about it practically every
day. This guy is remarkable, and almost as remarkable as his vast UFO
knowledge and the great job he does on following the news is his hair.
He's got kind of this. Sometimes it's a real mohawk. Sometimes today it's
more of a foe, but it's stick up stick scept in the air.
Very exciting and I love it and you're gonna love it too. So come
to the Congress and meet our news correspondent Jason McClellan, who is actually here
with me today to talk some UFO news. Jason, how are you?
I am always wonderful, Alejandro, how are you good? Good good?
I'm glad you approve of my hair, so I love it. If you
spend a lot of time talking about my hair, it's so fun, it's
awesome, excellent. I'm glad it gets the point across. Well. Greetings
everyone, This is your Open Minds News Brief for Monday, January thirtieth,
twenty twelve. And as Alejando mentions, the UFO Congress is right around the
corner and if you are going to be there, please do come up and
say hello. Alejandro and I love meeting listeners. It's fun to meet people
in real life, so please do come up and say hello. Even if
we're busy, we may say hey, Hi. Yeah, don't be offended
or think that we don't like you. If we kind of it seems like
we brush you off. We are going to be very busy, but still
we would very much like to meet you. And I had the pleasure of
meeting a handful of our listeners out in LA this past weekend from the good
buddies at the Simpsons. Yeah, that's awesome. You got to tell the
story a little bit. Well, I went out and had a great weekend
in California and got a chance to stop by the Simpsons office and say hello
to a lot of our listeners there. We've got a big, big crowd
at the Simpsons, so we definitely appreciate those guys, and it was fun
to meet them and spend a very brief time interrupting their busy work to talk
about UFOs. But it was a blast, and we're Simpsons fanatics worshippers.
Yeah, so it was a super treat for me and I left Futurum.
I'm crazy about it. Well, I'm sure they'd like to hear that.
Yep, we have it all right. Well, let's get into some UFO
news. Well, here's an interesting story from last week. American author Henry
Miller apparently had an interest in UFOs. It turns out that the famous author
became fascinated by the UFO subject when the so called flying Saucers first emergent and
popular culture in the late forties and early fifties. He referenced Donald Keyhoe's work
in two of his books. Miller even describes his own UFO siding in his
book, Big Sir and the Oranges of Heronomous Bosh. And this is an
interesting story that our colleague Antonio June has dug up and put together a pretty
cool article on our website right now Open Minds TV. So check that out.
That's kind of interesting. And Alandro, when I hear Henry Miller's name,
it reminds me of Seinfeld. You and I are also big Seinfeld people.
And this reminds me of the episode with the library cops after Jerry because
Jerry has the overdue Henry Miller book topic of cancer. You know what's funny
to you? Hear a lot about Henry Miller. Henry Miller, and he's
kind of like the quintessential author. But I don't think we had to read
any of his books in school. Well, I don't think I was an
avid reader in school, and I don't think I think read one. I
think a lot of schools banned his works. Oh okay, because they're they're
so naughty. Oh they're naughty book, Yes, very naughty books. So
they they're they're on a lot of schools bandless. Yeah, even more intriguing.
That's why Jerry wanted to read it and then George wanted to borrow it
because they were so risque and so exciting. All right, Yeah, like
their favorite movie Rachel Rochelle, that's right, Rot Journey from Milantomous from Milanto
myth. Wow. Interesting, that's really cool that he's into he was into
UFOs. Yeah, and you should have seen Antonio when he when he made
this discovery. He was so excited. It was like a school boy.
Guess what I'm going to write about? But yeah, so he's got that
that article on the website right now, so check that out. And it's
always interesting when we we have stories that I mean, he's not necessarily a
celebrity, but he's definitely a well known, you know, person in popular
culture. Yeah, and uh, you know, in the literary circle.
You don't see UFOs a lot in that literary circle. It's more in the
science circle, right, or even if they do have an interest, I
just don't hear about it as much. I guess you are right. So
great discovery by Antonio. Way to go, Antonio. Well here's a story
I enjoyed from last week. It's kind of a funny situation here. Well
we need san fomolt Et, professor at the Moscow Bay Space Research Institute and
member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, recently published findings in the Solar System
Research Journal claiming that photos from Russia's nineteen eighty to Venera thirteen landing probe shows
life on Venus. According to the Telegraph, the scientist claims that multiple objects,
specifically a disc shaped object and an object with a scorpion shaped body,
appear in the photos, and they appear to quote, emerge, fluctuate,
and disappear. He explains in his paper, quote, what if we forget
about the current theories about the non existence of life on Venus, let's boldly
suggest that the object's morphological features would allow us to say that they are living
in quote, but according to MSNBC quote outside and analysis suggests he is breathing
life into an assortment of camera lenses, camera lens covers, and image blurs
in quote. One person who doubts the Russian scientist's conclusion is Jonathan Hill,
a research technician and mission planner at the Mars space Flight Facility at Arizona State
University. Hill processes many of the images taken during NASA's Mars missions, so
he's familiar with examining photos from landing probes. It is his opinion that the
disc shaped or crab like objects the object is simply a mechanical component. He
supports his theory by explaining that the same object is visible in a photo taken
by an identical Venus landing probe that landed nearby. Hill postulates, if those
objects were already on the surface of Venus, what are the chances that Venera
thirteen and fourteen, which landed nearly one thousand kilometers apart, would both land
inches away from the only ones in sight, and they would be in the
same positions relative to the spacecraft it makes much more sense that it's a piece
of the lander designed to break off during the deployment of one of the scientific
instruments. According to MSNBC, it is NASA's opinion that the crab like objects
in the photos are quote, camera lens covers that popped off the narrow probe
after they landed, and the scorpion shaped body is simply digital noise in the
photos. And you wrote about this too, Alejandro, what do you think
about the claims made by this Russian scientist, Well, the claims he has
yet to sufficiently obviously make his argument. However, he says, you know,
he made this discovery in the eighties, which was when this probe was
on Venus, and that he was too shy to talk about it because he
thought, you know, nobody's going to believe this. So it's only recently,
with all of the planets out there being discovered that could harbor life,
that he felt more secure, Hey, maybe this will be looked at in
a better light than it would have back then. He's released his material,
he says, he's got more material and he's going to write some more.
So I think he still needs to because it does look you know, it's
hard to make get things out from what he's saying. But you know,
to his point too, some of the he's talking about things that are moving
around for twenty five minutes, so not something that is just laying there or
perhaps you know, being blown away by the engines of the land or as
it lands. So I guess it's yet to be seen. I think some
of the arguments are really kind of ridiculous. Here. You have these scientists
coming and saying it's a good point to make that the temperature on venus is
is very hot, like eight hundred degrees spahrenheit over five hundred degrees something like
that, so it's extremely hot, so it's most likely like couldn't live there.
But they're saying, you know, some of these scientists are coming out
and saying, oh, it's impossible. I haven't seen the video. It's
impossible because it's too hot there. Well, how do we know. We
don't know. I mean, you can't discount these things until you yourself look
at this video, Like like the guy you talked about, Johnson, the
guy from ASU, Jonathan Hill, right, yeah, at least he looked
at it, you know, and and studied it to see what he thought,
so he has a more credible opinion and a more educated one since he
actually looked at the images, but just to blow it off alone because it's
too hot, you know, too hot, too cold, whatever. We
don't know much about where life can can grow, and we found it in
so many places where we didn't think we would. That at least those arguments,
you know, fall a little short. At least they give the guy
the respect to take a look at his work before you make an opinion.
Yeah, these hasty, just flippant dismissing without bothering to take a look.
It's it's really insulting. Yeah, And of course, how exciting would that
be if we do find something? I mean, even you know, Paul
Davies, Davies right from as you was talking about or from uh, yeah,
the possibility of looking at pictures we already have of my moon to find
evidence of life. So maybe there is data we already have collected that does
demonstrate something, And how exciting, How cool would that be? That'd be
so cool And I would love to look at those photos, but you know,
I'm not a trained person looking at those photos, and I think it
would waste a lot of time. Having somebody who has no idea what they're
looking at or looking for to look at the photos. But and again that's
a good, good reason to have this guy from ASU who has looked at
Mars images. You know, at least that that's more to go on.
He knows more what he's looking for and knows more of the typical glitches that
are seen in photos. Right, you know, NAS like they've done that
a lot recently, explained things is camera glitches, and well that's probably the
case. You know, that's also jumping to a conclusion all all the times
I think there could be something. I mean, you've seen some of these
photos from the rovers and they're not always in focus. Even the rocks on
the ground are kind of blurry and stuff. So to say something that you
see sort of farther away that's kind of blurry, is, oh, that's
an image glitch. Might jump to conclusions a little fout there, but well
we're rooting for you, doctor Kisano Malati. There you go. We need
to learn how to say I think we need to learn Russian. Yeah,
because Russian Russia has been in the space news a lot later. I know
there, I don't know you would almost say they're the space for four runner
right now. They're certainly putting the pressure on. They're giving us our rides
to the space station. So yeah, well because of that, let's see,
let's go into the next story. Space travel, space exploration, and
the search for extra trustrial life were hot topics in twenty eleven, and it
is my prediction that these topics will be discussed even more in two thousand two.
Well. Current space exploration projects, planned missions, private space companies,
and the emergence of the space tourism industry are all contributing to the new space
race as countries around the world are pushing to put more people in space and
on celestial bodies. The space topic was brought up at the recent twenty twelve
Republican candidates debate in Florida. When asked about the space race, nude Gangrich
stated that he would like to see the US go back to the Moon permanently,
implying the colonization of the Moon, and he thinks a priority should be
quote getting to Mars as soon as possible end quote. He also shared his
opinion that quote building a series of space stations and developing commercial space is something
the US should do mitt Romney also stated that space travel should be a priority
for the country, and the day after that debate, Nude Gangridge went on
to say that the Moon should be the fifty first state of the United Ray
we claim the Moon, I'm sure the rest of the world would love that.
Yeah. Paint the whole thing red, white and blue leg flag so
when we look up there it looks like the American flag. Yeah, I'm
sure that's his plan too. And the thing is this is low laying political
fodder. I mean, it's easy to say, right now, we need
to go to the Moon, and you know, I'd say that that's great,
But of course, how do you make that happen when budgets are so
tight and at the same time you're screaming to cut funding on everything. So
it's great fodder for them, because of course it is. But Obama has
not done much with space travels, right He's basically said he's doesn't interest him,
and he's done more of a Republican thing. He's privatized it. Right.
Well, And I will say this, I am not ashamed to say
that I'm not a fan of newt I'm not a fan of myth. But
they both do make good points, and you know, with their support of
space exploration and going to the Moon and going to Mars. They both agree
with that point that the key to doing that is not using public funds but
privatizing spaceflight, using that giving private companies incentives to develop the technology to get
us there, which is essentially what's going on exactly. So yep, so
we'll see what happens. But yeah, Nute says that if he's elected in
his second term in twenty twenty, you will have a base on the Moon.
And it does. I mean, the based on the Moon makes a
lot more sense in the International Space Station and a lot of scientists were saying
that at the time because that's someplace that's easier to maintain, cheaper, and
it's a launching point. It's a better place to launch on missions tomorrow or
places from right. Here's an interesting entertainment story from last last week. Fran
Dresher claimed she was abducted by extraterrestrials. The actress best known for her annoying
role as the title character in the nineties sitcom Than Nanny. She recently told
the Huffington Post that both she and her ex husband were abducted by extraterrestrials before
they met each other, and she claims the situations in which they were each
abducted are similar. She explained that her abduction occurred when she was in junior
high and she was a teenager. She was driving down the road with her
father. Her ex husband, also in junior high at the time, was
abducted while driving down the road with his father. Dresser stated, quote,
a few years later we met and we realized we had the same experience.
I think that somehow we were programmed to meet end quote. She even theorizes
that an alien implant could be how the extraterrestrials programmed her actions. She claims
that her ex husband has one too. She explained, quote, we both
have the same scar. It's in the same Uh, it's the exact same
scar on the exact same spot. That's where the chip is. It's an
interesting story, And when it came out, I think a lot of people
thought she was joking around, but she is one hundred percent serious. Yeah.
She told this to the Huffington Post reporter. He says, what's his
name? Rob? Nasty or nasty but nice? Rob? Thing like that
name, And according to this guy. She was very serious, So,
I mean it was kind of just three sentences that she said in this interview
that he highlighted and now has become a story about her, and she seems
to be really believed this happened. So very interesting. It is interesting,
and I haven't heard confirmation from her ex husband. I know he's commented on
the scar before and he disagrees with her about the scar, and there's something
about but right, he didn't comment on the event, which she says took
place when she was in middle school and him somewhere else, another party they
didn't know each other time frame, had a similar experience. So yeah,
I wonder if I'll ever speak about it, And what does it say that
he's not Could it be that he just doesn't want to talk about it and
he does think something happened. Maybe, But you know this, this was
in the news last week and it continues to be in the news this week,
So I wouldn't be surprised if he's sort of pressured into giving a response
for addressing the issue because people will ask about it. Yeah, that's for
sure. So well, here's a fighting story. A man in Scarborough,
England saw ufl last week and it freaked him out. Billy Kirk saw a
strange ball of light over his home that he described as a stationary white light.
Kirk explained to the Scarborough Evening News quote, I'm still in shock.
I can only describe it as a big ball of light. I was scared.
I just ran in the house and said to my girlfriend, I'm not
going back out there. I didn't know what to think. I've never been
a big believer in things like that, but I can't explain it. It
definitely wasn't the Northern lights, an aircraft or a Chinese lantern. I thought
of everything. I didn't want to say anything at first, but I thought
it should be reported. It could be a danger to our airspace and day.
I think the Scarborough Evening News did a recreation and illustration of what the
object was like in relation to him, has him standing outside in his yard
and there's this ball of light kind of zooming towards him. Freak me out.
Yeah, crazy, I mean, and it just shows because I'm I
mean, you got to take it when with a grain AsSalt when it's on
the front page of the Sun, But I mean just shows. And we'll
talk to with Paula about this a little bit. How interested they are in
Europe about Yeah, you know this subject on and let's do one more,
Alejandro. This is another sighting story. Mysterious lights were seen in the sky
above Utah County and Utah on Friday night. The lights were identified on Sunday
when local resident Andrew Smith came forward to claim responsibility. The illuminated UFO was
a creation of his that consisted of helium fueled garbage bags and flashing LED lights
attached to a wire frame. According to KSL Channel five in Utah, Smith
created his UFO as part of a contest to promote a website, and Smith
even claims that he's been launching similar craft for ten years. He explained,
quote, I don't think it's fair for me to do this in good fun
and then sits back and let everyone be in the dark and not know or
not let them know what's really going on. Of course, even if you
tell them what it was, a lot of them still won't believe you.
And that's a true statement there. But this is an interesting one. It
was creating a lot of buzz in the Four Corners area and I even saw
this on a news report in Colorado who were reporting on the mysterious lights Friday.
So yeah, this guy came forward and says, yeah, I do
it all the time, and that's great. I mean, sure there's gonna
be people who aren't going to believe that he hoaxed it, and that's happened
with every hoax in the past. I mean there are even some of the
big hoaxes, like the most popular UFO video on YouTube, the Haiti one,
which the guy has come out and admitted he hoaxed, and some people
still believe that it's real. And I wouldn't go so far as to say
this guy hoaxed anything because it doesn't seem like he's trying to fool people,
because he wants to come forward and let people know what's going on. Stuff
doesn't exactly look like a UFO. I mean, it's really colorful. And
I'm using the term not that he maliciously did anything, but that he created
just to make the point that it's still good that these guys come out and
let people know, because not everybody is not going to take his work for
Although a lot of people will say, oh, okay, great, thank
you. You know, I didn't know what it was I saw, and
most of the UFO witnesses that I've talked to as a move on investigator and
everything, they just want to know what it was. You know, they
don't necessarily have a preconceived notion that hits an extra tresh rule and that's what
it had to be. They want to know what it was. And when
they get an answer and they figure it out, often they're very happy.
Yeah, exactly. And you know a good example of something like this is
the New Orleans NFL video from last year. You know, that's something that
you know. Lis Biegel from the Huffington Post was contacted by the NBC photographer
who took that footage of this weird object moving behind the cathedral, and he
provided footage showing how he creates this time lapse video and has the original footage
of the airplanes's flying by, and said, when I was sitting there waiting
for this half hour process to finish, I was watching the airplanes fly by
coming in for a landing at the nearby airport. But they were plenty of
people who didn't didn't want to accept that explanation even though the proof was right
there. Yeah, tough, tough, you can't you can't make everyone happy,
but that's the way it is. Yeah, you know, we're we're
looking for the truth here. We're looking for the credible stuff that we know.
And and you said it before, I mean, yeah, we're we're
kind of disappointed when you know, it's not something as exciting as we thought
it would be. But you know that's what we're after. We're after the
truth. You know, we don't want to be fooled and be excited about
something that's nothing. I mean, we want we want to find what the
real answer is. I don't want to be staring at a balloon that I
think is a ETE trying to figure out the technology behind the sutraterreastural craft and
when it's not, I'd rather be told it's not. Now I'm not wasting
my time. I'm writing at stuff that is more credible. I'm right there
with you, buddy. Well, Alejandro, that is it for the news.
Remember, guys, you can check out all these stories and so many
more at openminds dot tv your source for UFO related news, And if you
have a news tip or anything else you'd like to say, you can always
email me at Jason at openminds dot tv and you can follow me on Twitter
at Acentric. All Right, guys, I am Jason McClellan, your Open
Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you Elehandro. Thank you,
Jason. Another great UFO briefing by Jason mccleollan. Also, remember you
can see these at UFO DailyNews dot com. That's where I have my website,
and I got some of these news stories up as well. We're both
kind of out there covering everything and tweeting on this stuff too, So don't
forget to follow our other social networks, which many of you do, are
Facebook and our Twitter, and Twitter's a lot of fun. I gotta say,
I wasn't into Twitter, and I thought, ah, you know,
what do I care what people are up to? But then I find,
you know, some people use it as like a newswire and they send out,
you know, stories and stuff, and you can keep up to speed
that way and a very quick manner, and you don't have to go use
your phone. You can go to the Twitter website and look what people are
talking about. And it's a lot of help to keep up with some of
your favorite authors and other people out there who are letting you know, Hey,
you know I'm going to have this interview here or I'm going to be
on this television station there, so that you can keep up to speed with
what's going on. So it is a cool thing. People check out Twitter,
check out Yolfo Daily News, Open Minds, tv Acentric and Maureen has
a new and Space geek Life. Right Space geek Life. Yeah, that's
her new and so you can check out our twe Twitter there too, so
we're all tweeting. We're twitters. Someone who has a website and an active
Facebook, but I don't think she has Twitter yet. I should talk to
her about that is Paola Harris, who is our guest and I she's a
UFO researcher, has been for years, started working with j Allen Heinek,
who of course is a I'm a huge fan of this guy and we talked
about him often, and I asked Paula about that. So let's go ahead
and listen in on Paula Harris. I am happy to have a good friend
of mine from Boulder, Colorado. Although when I met you, you used
to spend a lot of time in Italy. The UFO researcher Paula Harris,
Hello, Paula, I Alejandro. I have like one foot in here and
one foot in Europe. I have the best of both worlds. Yeah,
that's awesome. And Europe has been really busy on this subject. Yeah,
there's a lot going on in Europe. They've had a lot of fightings and
I'm working on two cases there, and believe it or not, one contact
EA case and I'm always on the phone with him because a lot of interesting
things are happening. And I wish I could just like fly across the ocean
when these things happen. Because just in general, and you and I have
talked about this, this subject matter gets to be a lot more open in
Europe sometimes than it is here. It's covered on the news, on the
six o'clock news, it's covered on it's covered in the newspapers and stuff like
that, and here I very rarely see uf both stories on any of the
news channels. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a lot because
I cover I pay attention to all of the media. But really it's across
the whole country. If you took one city, like let's say Denver in
particular, you know, maybe a few stories a year that's it. So
across the country, there's a lot when you put everything together, but still
each individual media organization only has a couple of stories a year or something like
that. I guess I'm talking about television mostly because Internet filled pose stories.
Yeah, you know, on the Internet. I mean I think anymore,
there's like there could be like an occupation called surfing the net because there's for
UFO stories because so many are on Internet and they're put on by regular people.
I mean people that are everyday citizens that can upload their video and they
can upload their experiences. But what I'm talking about in particular is mainstream media,
oh yeah, news, top radio or television children. And in Europe,
I feel that that's probably much more open than it is here because I'm
always looking at see'll cover some kind of UFO story. Got cham Yeah,
I want to talk more about Europe in a little bit, but I wanted
to start off with some of what you're working on lately. And something that's
really exciting that you're working on is your own conference in Texas coming up in
may or your speakers this is unique, the first time ever are all going
to be women. Yeah, you know, I was trying to think of
what I could create that would be completely different, that would be a different
kind of sun the area than the regular UFO conferences that I've spoken at her,
that I've attended, And it just came to me that And this is
how it starts. That Angela Joiner, who's a journalist, to cover the
Stephenville Likes, really risked a lot for truth. She risked a lot because
she was working for the Stephenville Tribune and and really became interested in the UFOs,
and you know that caused a problem with her job. So I thought,
look, if I worked with Angela to have a Stephenville Likes panel,
we were to give her an award for excellent journalism, and we would have
the speakers be mostly women. In this case, all women, even though
we have a panel of four men who are the chief Stephenville witnesses, and
we have on Friday night the screening of the Him Hand by James Carmen from
York. Now you know he won the EB Award last year for Best Film.
So I have men at this conference, but what I'm doing is highlighting
women, and I think that's a balance that kind of carries the balance for
the regular UFO conference that is basically top heavy with men. There are so
many really deserving, excellent women. Now, one thing you might notice when
you see the banner for us is that there's no gadgets, and there's no
cartoons, and there's no filliness because we want it. We're calling it a
symposium, a dialogue, and we're using very serious background on it because it
will be like a dialogue, and people like Lynn Keytai, Doctor Lynn Keyty
is going to be one of our speakers. We'll talk about the effect of
the Phoenix flight sightings on the mass public, and it's kind of the same
effect that Stephenville had on its town down there, because it's kind of changed
their worldview. So it'd be interesting we have Phoenix lights and Stephenville lights.
And then we have Carol Rosen, who is an excellent speaker who wants to
talk about the space based weapons and banning them in space, and she's very
serious and passionate about what she has to say. And of course Lisa Romanac,
who's going to be speaking for the first time in public about her role
as the wife of a contactee, and I know you know her very very
well. The name of her book is the other side of the bed and
she'll talk about what she's had to go through. So this is really exciting
speakers. Yeah, this is going to be a lot of fun. I
mean, these are all people I know and are great people, so it
ought to be kind of cool. And I think it's important, like you
said, to add some balance and also to see that perspective, to see
it through different eyes. I think it's important. What you're doing, well,
thank you. And it's just creative. It's very creative. And I've
told the women and this is going to be fun for everybody because Texas is
a wonderful place. I've been down to Stephenville and Glen Rose in that area.
It'll be a big like Texas party. We're going to have a Texas
barbecue on Saturday night and then Steve Allen, who's the principal witness of the
Stephenville Light, is one of our supporters and he's going to take everybody to
the old ranch. She said it has a very very unobstructed view of the
sky where he saw this craft, this mile long craft, and we're all
going there for a SkyWatch Saturday Friday. We're going to have a cocktail party
and I'm asking the ladies all to wear a red cocktail dress. Is going
to be called a lady in red party. So and that's where James Carmen
will also be, you know, screening his solm. So I'm trying to
make it fun for people, So I welcome men. In fact, half
men have registered so far, uh you know, half and half women and
and and to make it something fun but also something extremely intellectual and important.
Yeah, it looks like it about what half an hour out of out of
Dallas or Fort Worth is at the best place where people are flying into and
then driving out. Yeah, well it's one hour actually out was fort Worth.
And you know, if they had people are having questions about carpooling,
they can contact my companies called star Warks USA. I formed the company specifically
for this, for this event, and I'm hoping that it will it will
just give a breath of fresh air to uh, you know, the dialogue
on UFOs in a place that's fairly conservative about UFOs and that's Texas, so
it's going to be really interesting. I'm you know, these Stephen will lights
for me though Alejandro as a journalist is very very important because I just intered
you, Steve Allen, and the fact that someone like him, who's the
pilot and businessman, can really, you know, be affected by this.
In my interview, I asked him, I said, you know, what
would you say to the people because you didn't expect us to be real?
And he just said to me that he had asked President Bush, who lives
down you know, down the road in Crawford, Texas. His words were,
the gig is up, the cats out of the bag, would you
please tell us what's going on? So I really liked it when the average
you know, a citizen it wants disclosure like Steve does. Now, Now,
how far away is your conference from Stephenville. It's about thirty miles from
back from Stephenville. And that sighting was actually between glen Rose and Stephensville on
the Oldom which it was between Yeah, it was on a ranch. Uh.
And Mike Oldham has has agreed to have us there on Saturday night.
And you know something I didn't. I didn't realize that the phenomenon is still
going on. The people are still seeing orbs and and and lights in the
sky. Yeah, in the in those towns. Interesting. Now, maybe
Steve Allen, you said, he actually talks to President Bush. No,
he he he went on, Uh, he's been on radio, he's been
on he's been on radio, he's been on television, and he's been in
the media. And his words to Bush are you know, but this is
when you know Bush was in the White House, you know. He he
basically said, it's time for truth. You got to tell the truth and
this you shouldn't be hiding this from the people. He believes he believes that
whatever uh you know, political structure is in place, should be telling the
truth to people. And and that isn't always. And that really surprised me
because I thought that this phenomenon would kind of scare him and and and he
really thinks that, you know that whatever it is, it's harmless. He
said, whatever was it was in that craft was aware that I was there.
He said, it knew I was looking at it, and it wasn't
doing any harm. And then he described that the two f sixteens that came
out of nowhere and work good. Well, why don't you go ahead and
explain who Steve Allen was and what happened to him, what he experienced during
the sightings. Well, he explained to me in the interview that it was
one night that you know of. It was January eighth, nineteen ninety eight,
and basically they some friends of his and Michaelsham asked him to bring over
some beer because they have a dry county over there, and Steve lives in
a wet county. I guess in Texas, you know there's dry counties and
wet counties where you can have alcohol and not. So Steve got the beer.
He went over to the ranch. He said, it was an unusual
sunset. He said, there was this really strange looking cloud in the sky,
very unusual. And he said he turned around and in the sky he
saw this these lights these he said, it was like almost a transparent kind
of huge crafts sitting there with these orbs around it, these these lights around
it. And he said they all saw it, and he said he was
kind of dumb struck by it. It really surprised him because he's a pilot
and he knows he's never seen anything like this, so he knew that it
was not an airplane. He couldn't figure out what it was. But within
minutes, he said, two f sixteens came and this thing just shot away
and and then it came back and they could see it in the sky a
little bit farther. He had some interesting artist renditions of this. He is
curious as to what it is. When Angela Joyner did the story with him,
he did something pretty amazing, Alejandro. He had his telephone number put
in the newspaper, something that it's very courageous to put your telephone number in
the newspaper. Because I asked him, why did you do that? And
he said because, he said, anybody that sought or took a picture of
it would verify what I saw. And he said, so unusual that I
needed verification from other people. He said, I needed somebody else to say
they saw it, you know, in the township, or maybe somebody'd give
me a picture of it. So that's when you know, it just opened
up a can of worms. And people called him, including Leroy and Gayton.
It was a constable and he had to talk Leroy into coming forth because
Leroy had told him I'm a public officialist and proper and uh, and Steve
said, yes it is. You have to be honest. You saw it
with you, I think he thought with his sons. He said, you
have to talk, you have to speak up. So it was a matter
of convincing these guys to speak up, you know, in a place like
that too, in a quite conservative country. It it's uh, your thought
of this crazy if you if you report things like that. So it changed
the whole entire town. It changed everything. Uh, and they're still wanting
to discuss this. So I'm excited that the four uh, the actually three
Ricky Sorels, liro Gaiton, UH, Steve Allen, and then UH Robert
Powell, who did the radar reports for Mouffon, will be in that panel.
Uh, Mouffon involved. And when Moufon got involved and got some solid
in fact, Steve Allen gave me the pages of radar reports, a lot
of them blacked out about the real incident. Then then we have something in
concrete. We have Moufon moving in and and I'm gonna have something else,
uh Alenjandro at my conference, the Moufon Texas will be sponsoring us by driving
in the UH. The women speakers move On Phoenix with Stacey Wright and Jim
are sponsoring Linka TI move On Denver will be the ones giving the award to
to Angela Joiner and move On Arkansas will be down there covering the story.
So I have four move Ons from four different states that are really interested in
networking. Oh that's very cool. I didn't realize that. And I think
that sort of thing is another thing that's a really important. It's teamwork,
you know, all of everybody working together on the sort of events. Well
yeah, but that's my vision. That's why it came about. I really
think that they don't know each other, these MoveOn groups, so when they
get together to to uh, you know, work on something together, like
they're working on in the conference, uh you know, and people like Moufon
uh Denver is going to give the you know, the award to Angela Joiner.
I mean, I think that that's just incredible and move On Texas has
done so much and with Robert Powell doing the radar reading, it gives mouf
On a real important stance in this and they are a great organization. Yeah.
I thought that when it all happened personally, that Angela Joiner should have
gotten award from MoveOn. And it's great that they're participating in this because she
was so important in getting this story to be as big as it was,
and also she was key She was the one who really got a move on
on Larry King when she was on there. She even said, you know,
you shouldn't have me. Everybody's already interviewed me. You need to have
these move on guys Robert Powell and Glenn Schaltz who did this Radar report,
And they said, no, we still want you, but okay, we'll
have them too. So she was really great, a big help back then.
Well, she also believes the network see women women believe in networking is
it's because, you know something, if we could all work together. There's
always been my thinking. If we could all sit at the table and share
our research, we get to the secret a lot faster than hanging on to
it or the infighting or the jealousies or whatever it is that there is in
the field. If we could all just have like a big, you know,
study group, we get to this this secret and this mystery, it
would be able to solve a lot more of it a lot faster. So
my thought is always networking. And I'm excited about having these fre move ons
coming down. They're all from different parts of the country. Uh, and
be part of this conference. Yeah, that's really cool. I didn't realize
they were doing that. I wanted to ask you your opinion as far as
women and uphology. I mean they are often you know, there are sometimes
when there will be conferences where there are no women speakers. But it does
seem like are there less women researchers in UFOs or do they just have different
interests? What do you think the difference is? Well, you know,
quite honestly, I think it's hard for a women to be in this field.
I was told early on in this field that I stopped getting involved in
my nice little stories. I was told this by a top level researcher that
I didn't that women get intally involved and they're not objective. I think I'm
one of the most objective, and that's in most people on the whole planet.
The thing is is, for the longest time, it's been in the
male dominated field, and I don't think they think necessarily of including women all
the time. One of the greatest tragedies of all Alejandro, and it's on
my Facebook right now, is the fact that we never invited Georgina Bruney here.
Georgina Bruney was a top level researcher in England. She's a friend of
Nick Pope's. Nick talked to me at Lent about her how excellent she was
in the Rendel Shan Forest Betwater's case. She had the nerve to go up
to Margaret Thatcher, you know the movies up now, the Iron Lady.
She had the nerve to go up to Margaret Thatcher to party and say,
I know, Bette Waters Rendel's from Force. Something landed there and I know
that's the real case. And Margaret Thatcher turned around to her and said,
well, you better get yours facts straight and you better not tell the people.
So Georgina Brooney wrote a book called You Better Not Tell the People Now.
We never invited her here for any conference here. She's a major player,
and she passed on two years ago. I think it was about two
years ago, so she's no longer with us. So on my Facebook,
I have a tribute to her because she's a woman that I think we should
have had to speak here, and a lot of our conferences we don't share.
I know, we had Sen Sakarara from Turkey here quite often and I
admired her. And the only reason I mentioned these women from other countries is
because you know, I think that that upologies should be international. Of course,
we have the excellence of Linda Moulton Howe and Leslie Kane here, and
you know, they speak often that there's a lot of other women in the
field that do not get the opportunity to speak as much and are not necessarily
included with the what you call the in groups sometimes. Yeah, I mean
I find it interesting that for me, when I think about my mentors in
this field and people who I really appreciate and have worked closely with, it's
mostly been women. There have been, you know, a couple guys,
but it's mostly women right now. Even that I you know, that might
go to people and stuff like that. There are a lot of influential women
in the field. And do you think it's partially I kind of hope that
as the field changes right now, I don't think it would be inaccurate to
say that it's dominated not just by men, but older men and who come
from an era of such as you know, the mad men kind of era,
the era where you know, there there was good old boy type of
things were the way business was done. And hopefully as time changes, you
know, with people like my generation, we're not used to that, we're
used to working with women and and you know, having women as bosses and
and working together and hopefully that'll change over time. Yeah, let me add
because you and I worked together. You were my webmaster many years. Uh.
And and I'm grateful to you. If I hadn't had you, but
you, what you did was help helped me get the information out by working
my website and working with me and I we did a couple of conferences.
In fact, you used to do a conference in Denver, uh every year,
and and and you invited me. I mean, but you're but you're
not the average. Uh. You followed you so you you don't have that
bias. You never did and and I don't know what to say. First
of all, let's talk about ufology as a it's something more than a hobby.
Okay, it's as a passion, a mission, or or any kind
of career. I it's really a thing that doesn't produce any money, It
doesn't give you, It certainly doesn't give you too much feedback. It's very
difficult to work together because there's a lot of differences in the field. I
mean, the amount of debunking is going going around is incredible, and it's
being done by our own people. We don't even have to look at the
fill classes. I mean, ufologists are debunking other ufologists work. It's and
it's and sometimes it's very unpopular with your family. A lot of a lot
of people I know that are in the UFO field, their spouses or their
families are not exactly excited about their doing this. It still presents ridicule.
When people ask me that an author and I've written, you know, five
books, and I'm a journalist. They'll say, well, what do you
write about? Part of me just hesitates before I tell them, you know,
part of me goes, I don't know if I should tell him,
so I sometimes I say, you don't want to know. But what verily
happens is I say to them, okay, I write about uf bodels and
they go, oh, that's so great, that's so cool. But I
don't expect that action when I tell them. So it's unpopular. So there's
a list of negatives around working in the uf A field. And I don't
think women are like men are. Maybe the younger men too aren't as excited
to jump into it as people were in the past. I mean, are
icons of ufology the researchers that have been around for a long time have made
a name for themselves, but the newer, younger generation is very difficult.
Yeah. Well, and when I say, hey, you know my mentors
are women, I certainly count you among them. I mean, yeah,
you were. It was wonderful when I got to live in Denver and we
got to work so closely together, and I got to learn so much from
your work and always been happy to help. Well, what was the name
of the event they used to present every year at the area campus where you
had Jeff Colorado UFO briefing the briefing absolutely, in fact, the picture of
the brief used to do it on the sphears of Capital, right, Yeah,
my very first one. We got a free speech license and did it
right at the Capitol. And the guests you had were amazing. David Sereda,
you had Leo Sprinkle, you had Goodness Ryan Wood, And here are
these people standing on the steps of the Capitol talking to the general public.
I mean, you've had an incredible vision there. Then you went indoors.
But you're the first one who had Jeff Peckman speak. I mean, you're
responsible, and let's face it, Jeff Peckman did more for the cause as
far as actual activism than almost anybody I know. I mean, he was
able to get thirty you know with it. I think it's seventy two thousand,
thirty six thousand, seventy two thousand voters to vote yes for an extraterrestrial
ballot initiative. I mean, that's unheard of thirty six thousand people pressing the
button for yes. So, you know, and you started with that at
the briefing, and Jeff Peckman's mission started there, you know, about getting
this into the offices of our elected officials. And see, that's I think
that's the way to go because it doesn't put it in the fringe element.
It doesn't make it crazy, and so it doesn't make it something that we
shouldn't be looking at. I think we definitely should be looking at this.
This is something an ongoing phenomenon that changes our entire worldview, like it did
Steve Allen's down in Stevensville, Texas. What if you think about you,
was he really into UFOs at all before he had a sighting? Not at
all, Not at all. No. I mean it's like with Angela.
Either Angela wasn't It's like, once you touch this subject, you become obsessed
by Then you want to know more. You want to know how long it's
been going on, where these things has been happening, what the cover up
is all about. So I think he's very in a very responsible way,
asking who knows about this? Who? In other words, how is it
being hidden? And he's convinced somebody knows, like we all know, somebody
knows. And I hate to say the government, because the government, I
honestly believe this government, the elected officials, do not know anything about anything
about this. The last thing they want to deal with is UFOs. I
think that the who knows about this is that select group that manages it.
And what do you all of the black ops people or the military industrial complex
or the intelligence community, it's that group that manages the information about this that
knows. I don't think your average congressman, senator, maybe even the president
is even aware of the intricacies of this cover up. Right. Yeah,
it's funny that you go there, and it's interesting that you because a lot
of people who have been in this field come to the similar conclusions. I
had Grant Cameron on last week. I've had him on often as well.
But that yeah, the politicians in it. We see this over and over
again, even with Barry Goldwater or Bill Clinton. They want to know something,
but they just can't. They're not told anything, and they're not in
the loop. They're not in the loop. And those people that have been
asked to be in the loop, like the Barry Gowers and Stephen Schiffs and
and different governors that may want to know, they only know because they happened
a living states where something has happened, and then they open like the can
of worms or the Pandora's box, and then that they are told to keep
quiet because they don't need to know. It's a matter of a need to
know basis. So what I'm looking at as a journalist anymore is I'm looking
at which countries outside of the United States are doing the most. And I'm
looking at France always because France started with the Committal report, but I'm convinced
they're working on another report, and England, and you know, they're slowly
releasing more information. Of course, at the UFO Congress you have i think
a military man from Chile, which is going to be very interesting, you
know. And so Chile is looking at Brazil. Brazil is now has some
files released. These are government files. I mean, people can't play the
game of do you believe in UFOs because not religion, duly believe that some
governments are releasing files that report UFOs the air because military have come up against
them or commercial airlines have come up against them. Yes, are they real?
Absolutely? The trouble is we got sure what's inside and where they come
from. Now, when you bring up Europe, I did want to talk
about that and get your perspective because you, like you said, you spend
a lot of time out there. You're kind of like a superstar in Italy.
You know, you've traveled around Europe talking about UFOs, and it seems
like what's interesting is there are very different perspectives when you go country by country.
You have France, that's probably it's the poster child for taking this subject
on, probably the way we wish that everybody would. They're doing real research.
You have England, which is kind of released some papers, but they
still kind of make fun of it. And then you have like Germany who
says, you know, they're really no, we don't care about UFOs,
We've never investigated them, and giving this guy recently trouble who who is trying
to get this file release that shows, yes, you did, at least
at one time investigate UFOs and it's a file he knows exists. So you
have from country to country. Are the people like that, from country to
country with really different perspectives? Yeah, I really do believe that they're you
know, there is a different perspective. But you know, in the overall
in twenty twelve, where we are now, where there's so many other concerns
and countries have so much, so many problems with economics and you know,
the rising price of gas, and people are hungry, and they have all
kinds of other problems. The governments of these countries do not want to touch
UFO with a ten foot poll. They do not. However, however,
I have to say, you have a speaker in your conference that I'm coming
purposely to hear, and that's least Egal. Because at one time, if
one country as small as Grenada could get a resolution into the United Nations,
and Lee Spiegel was very important in getting that together. Uh, you know,
with Alan Hyak, Jacquelin and Gordon Cooper in the seventies, if he
could actually do that. I mean, he could actually push that through to
at least a dialogue part, even though it didn't get to be voted on.
Then maybe some little, itty bitty country out there will push it through
to the United Nations level, a country that is not, you know,
worried about starving people or the economy or their banks or any other thing.
Maybe a smaller country might do it. And if that happens, then then
we might open this up to the world and have an intelligent discussion. And
I really love Lee Spiegel's attitude and activism in his in his way of approaching
this, because it's a legitimate way. It's a planetary way. This is
not an American problem, this is not an Italian problem or British problem.
It's a planetary problem and we planet should deal with that. So he writes
for the Huffington Post right now, and I really think that his vision is
one where you know, I'd like to put my energy into. I mean,
you know, we can't work for individual countries, and there's so much
going on right now, people aren't necessarily tuned in. But if it would
get to the United Nations, it might be an answer, right Yeah,
And it seems you know, yeah, I at least be go. I
love that guy and I've had him on a couple of times now, just
recently even and we talked about, you know, how the whole UN thing
came about. And actually I have an article coming up in our next Open
Minds. You have one in there too, where I do an interview just
focused on that, because it's incredible, you know that they were able to
make that happen and people forget. You may remember a couple of years ago
when there was this room of the UN having some meetings in a back office,
and people were getting real excited. But it was like for those of
us who knew about this other U initiative that happened in the seventies, that
big deal. You know, there were people in the seventies bringing this to
the floor, talking to the General Session about UFOs in the past. Well,
you know it is. I mean, even though I truly believe that
the phenomenon is benign, it is a matter of national security. You're going
to need to tell your pilots that they may have an incident and what to
do when they're out there. You can't have the pilot like Jean Jacques du
Blac have a huge UFO over parents and not know what to do because he
has all the passengers in the back. I think that's unethical, and not
only that, it could be a matter of national security and that they're in
other countries their space, so we could look at that should be alone something
they would open it up. But Alejandro, there was another situation nineteen eight
at the sun Medino conference in Italy where Colonel Carso was there. I was
there. I was present, and we had representatives from every country including Yeah,
we had us double Day from France, Michael Husband from Germany. We
had Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs, we had Yvonne Smith was there. Ivann
is one of the only women that has really traveled the world with this UFO
situation. And Colonel Corso was there. And because some Merino was an independent
republic, it has hardly any army, it didn't have any stake and you
know, being criticized it was such a small country. There was a resolution
paper sign there that Solo signed and all the people present signed to bring it
before the General Assembly. So did they end up doing it, No,
because I guess somebody now had an election and the the prime Minister of sun
Minno. After that the governor of the Prime Minister I didn't agree, didn't
agree with Cassalis, who is the one at the time who was there.
And so the thing is that's interesting is that another we tried to do it
through another small independent republic, and it never got off the ground because it
has to be introduced by a country that is not going to be either embarrassed
or have a stake in it. So, I mean, that's an interesting
perspective and I'm glad you're writing about it because that is a possible way to
go. We need to go past the sighting stage. You know, we've
got enough sightings to prove that it's real. We need to go now to
more and more of an activist political stage, having more insight into European kind
of activism in this field. Do you think there's any breaking country. Do
you think we're going to hear something from another European government or are they just
too busy with their economic woes right now? I think you're going to see
another Cometa. Do you think France is not going to give this up?
France is interested, and I mean, you know you've heard Stephen Gersey a
big Ga Country has contacted him. Well, it's obvious he's made so many
illusions to France. We know it's France. They I don't think France wants
to be caught unprepared for any kind of of what do you call it,
not landing, but any kind of phenomenon that may happen. You know,
in the end, this is all in the hands of the ETS. If
they just decide to show up over an airport or show up over a city
and there's a bunch of them, we can't do anything about it. That's
that's what's so funny about this. So far, they've decided not to play
that, not to do that, not to not to manifest in unmass anywhere.
But I mean, should they decide something should have been should be put
in place, something in shooting them down. I mean something that would be
uh you know, diplomatically okay, should be put in place. And I
think France is probably the only country that is looking into this with any kind
of seriousness about what could be put in place, and even if it never
happens, at least, you know, people are prepared. And I think
that's that's why I really, you know, wanted to Originally I wanted to
go into exo politics for that reason, because it was kind of a political,
strategic, galactic protocol type of thing. I've kind of backed away from
it. Now. I have a brand new book that I've released called UFOs,
How Does One Speak to a Ball of Light? It will be released
February first, and I will have copies at the International UFO Congress and Phoenix,
and I have nine protocols of this type in that book, because I
think we should be prepared. I think we should be prepared on all levels,
also on the level Alejandro to when we're looking up in the sky to
try to make a difference as to what's our stuff for their stuff. I
mean, you know all that controversy now about the Belgium UFO that it was
some kind of back engineered technology. I'm good grief. If that starts happening,
we're really in trouble. We'll be shooting at our own stuff. Right.
It's like it's like complicated for me. It's not only complicated, it's
serious. We don't know. I don't believe in shooting at UFOs, even
though poor Milton Torres was you know, was apt to do that in the
Air Force over England in nineteen fifty seventy was asked to shoot lock on and
shoot at the UFO. But and this came out of the British files.
But I mean, anymore, it's so complex, the feel that if we
don't look at what's going on, we'd be making a whole bunch of mistakes
and putting ourselves in jeopardy. So one of the things that I really believe
in is an intelligent, also informed kind of academic dialogue about UFOs, none
of the silliness anymore. Well, that's another aspect of European euphology. And
maybe one of the reasons why they've kind of adopted the exopolitics idea is because
you have stated over and over that it's taken much more seriously the whole UFO
thing out there, that their UFO conferences don't have little green blow up aliens
or some of the stuff that we have at our conferences out here. Yeah,
but can you imagine. I mean, I've seen hotels where there are
some very serious researchers, some top notch people, some anthropologists, some scientists
who are speaking, and outside there's all these gadgets and these T shirts and
so forth. The general public that walks by that is not going to take
this subject seriously. You know they're going to start laughing. We don't have
that because we don't have the commercial aspect. America has a serious commercial aspect
around everything. It's not just about little aliens. I'm trying to avoid that.
In Texas. I don't want I don't want any little aliens or uf
alls hanging from the air or anything like that. I don't want any of
that. People are welcome to sell their books and to you know, and
to dialogue with the speakers and so forth, but I don't want that part
because in a way, I think there's a lot of things that have happened
with the UFO phenomenon that it's quite serious. It's not funny, and in
order for the general public to take it seriously. And Europe who comes to
these conferences, but you know in Europe they don't charge that much. Most
of them are free. And this is another situation. So you can get
a lot of more people, and you get professors, and you get astronomers
and meteorologists, and you get a lot more teenagers and university kids. I
mean, one thing I don't see anymore is young people. I mean,
I really think the real challenge for us in ufology is how to get young
people interested in this so that they study this like they want a science project.
I mean, how do you do that? That is a real interesting
challenge for all of us that I really do care, because you know,
I'm an English teacher by trade of a master's in education, so of course
I'm interested in the younger generation. How do you how can you have a
dialogue with these guys when you can't even get them to come into a conference.
And I want to tell everybody PAULA Harris dot com. I don't know
if it's p A O L A H A R R I S dot com
or also they can go find out more about the conference. It's star Warks
USA dot com. Will repeat those URLs again later, but I want to
make sure that we repeat them a few time so people know where to go
star Works USA dot com to go register for the conference because it is going
to be something exciting and new and different. It's May eighteenth to the twentieth
at Glenrose, Texas, so it's going to be something exciting. I really
hope I can make it. I'm not sure if I can yet, but
I'm trying to arrange it so hopefully I will. I probably will be able
to make it, but I really want to get there see you. Yeah,
because it'll be something a little different, and it'll be we'll be going
over the Stephenville case in detail, and it'll be you know, I think
there'll be a lot of information for everybody. Also the fact that and you
just had her. Tracy Austin Peters is going to be my moderator and she's
real exciting. I always call her the movie star. She's the woman that
has a lot of charisma that we'll be able to introduce everyone. And we
have a speaker, a new speak her Karen Grisham Nicol who is She is
an intuitive counselor hypnotherapist who has worked in Europe in Brazil. She was a
also counselor for Filini, the movie director. Uh Yeah, and worked in
Italy quite extensively. Uh She worked with on counseling and hypnotherapy with a group
of miners in in uh in Virginia that had had UFO contact in the mines
in the mines there and she was there a month and she will talk about
that and She's just a very sensitive lady that has a lot to say about
contact. And she'll be on Sunday and she believed it or not. Was
born in Glen Rose, Texas and lives in Dallas. Really yeah, she
lives in Dallas, and she kind of she came out of the woodwork.
I was really shocked. She she told me that about all of the people
that she's talked to over the years, a lot of Hollywood people. She's
an excellent, you know, intuitive but she's also a have no therapist that
deals with contact scenario and you know, and and and I think that bringing
in these new people, these people that have so much to say, uh
and and having questions and answers from the audience will really be exciting. And
that's what we plan to do with her. That sounds like fun. Another
thing I wanted to talk to you about is your article that I kind of
mentioned earlier. You're going to have an article in the next Open Minds magazine,
and I think this is something great that you've done. You were able
to interview Kim Arnold, Kenneth Arnold's daughter, and she gave you some interesting
information about the UFO case. That really is the one that's credited for kind
of beginning contemporary UFO studies. Yeah, you know, I had heard what
had happened, and this is all, you know, coincidence, and you
know me for that, all the coincidences in my life, right. But
but I was on coast to Coo and Kenneth Arnald's granddaughter Chanel called in,
said she was Kenneth Arnald's granddaughter. Of course George Nurry's wanting her telephone number
immediately, and a year later she gets hold of me. She says,
my mother is Kim Arnold, and I will give you her telephone number.
So I called her right away and it took We've had a dialogue for four
years now, Kim reminded me it was four years. But the last four
months I've really tried to convince her to come forth and speak. And the
reason why she didn't want to, even though a lot of people knew about
her, was because her father had been hassled so much in his lifetime that
he in his old age, was very disillusioned, almost embittered by the UFO
community. And it made a big circus out of this and her father,
who was a real accomplished pilot, when he saw the nine UFOs between Mount
Rainier over the Cascade Mountains, between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. You know,
was very very It just blew him away because it changed his worldview too.
He was very honest about what he saw in king Forth and you know,
even I think in his book, in the book The Saucers Have Landed
with Palmer that he wrote with Ray Palmer, he says that the FBI made
him, you know, offered to or he offered to take a mental test
and a physical test because for his own credibility. People came after him for
the credibility factor. So he, like Steve Allen, was waiting for somebody
else to report it. And this Captain Smith of United Airlines also reported seeing
nine saucers on when he was on a commercial flight and his crew saw so.
Kenneth Arnold and Smith were the two investigators of the Maury Island case up
in Washington. Kenneth Arnold was waiting for other people to come forth to say
they saw the same thing, because you know, I know how that is.
You probably think you're going crazy. You're the first one to report something
like this. Now, when the general public or the news media asked him
what it looked like. He said, it looked like a saucer skipping over
water. Well, you know what happened after that is the news media descended
on his house, made his life miserable. He was married to Doris and
had four daughters. Kim is the third youngest, and she basically remembered unpleasant
memories about all of this. And I had come to sure that her father
was a piece of Ufo history. That she had to come forth and talk
to the to the people about what her father thought, because I'm curious what
her dad thought. Her father had I think a total of eight sightings.
The third sighting he had, he was in the plane by him the south
the craft. What he saw was something morphing right now near the class uh
the craft. She said that he even at that time, you know,
uh, I think put the window down, she said, and tried to
look at it. And it was more things, she said, into uh
a light that had like a pulsation to it. That he came to the
conclusion that whatever was was alive. Now, this is what interested me.
That it had a pulsation like a human heartbeat, and that it was intelligent,
and that it was alive. So Kim's feelings and her mother's feelings and
her family's feelings were that these were almost like disembodied entity, that these these
craft were alive, that they weren't just you know, metal, And this
was something that a lot of other witnesses in the past had talked about,
including Michael Wolfe, about the craft being part of the pilot and there being
one and they're being alive, you know, being community, that it was
a biological craft instead of a metal craft. And so this interested me and
think in the interview that's in Open Mind, Word Forward, Kim Marnle will
tell the public what her father believed about these craft and the fact that he
had more than one sighting that and that's the piece that people didn't know he
had more than one sighting. That's really interesting. Did she say, you
know, was that morphing citing the the other one that had the most effect
on him? Was there another one that was really shocking to him? What
was that one? She said? The second one were nine orbs that looked
like yeast flying, but they were gold. They were full circles. So
he had different kinds. He had the chevrons kind you know, the nine
chevrons that were like V shaped in the beginning. Then the d the second
one was the gold orbs that he had seen, and the third one were
these two that seemed to morph in front of the ship. Now, she
said, and this is really interesting too, that there was a lot of
paranormal stuff going on in her house. After she said there were an actual
global light came into their house. Really, yeah, she talked about that.
She said, now you know from Stan Romanac that a lot of stuff
like that happens to him and other people who believe they've been up that have
experienced that sort of thing. Yeah, so I think it was no accident.
Cannethaniel was involved in all this, and that the residuals were that he
had this this beam of light or this ball of light come into its house
and they saw it go from room to room. So, I mean,
you don't know what that stuff is. I mean, I imagine it's an
intelligent ball of light of some kind. She never talks about aliens. Her
father never talked about aliens, but was interested in other people's stories. In
fact, she said her father had like boxes of clickings of UFOs if almost
the same thing as like you become obsessed with it, so you still are
taking in all the information you can. And by the way, he's not
the only one that used to be like that. You know. I knew
Monseignor Balducci is about and I would go over his house. He had boxes
boxes of UFO clippings, and he had all of the categorized and he had
everything from the paranormal. They were all shoved together, the paranormal and the
UFO stuff. Very curious. So people that have any kind of experience like
this, it changes their life forever, as you very well know. Yeah,
I mean, I believe you've said this too, and I feel that
way. I know Angela Joyner feels that way. Never would have imagined,
you know, decades ago, before getting into UFOs, that we'd be dedicating
our lives to this subject. Just it seems so foreign a thought, you
know, especially when I think of myself in college and I remember this one
guy had all these UFO theories. I had no inkling to throw my life
into this. It's just crazy that I've done that. Then it's like,
how did this happen? Well, you know, I almost think we signed
up somewhere, but I don't, Yea, we signed I don't know where
we signed on the dotted line. I'm trying to think where that happened.
For me, it began with with Allen Heinech. So every time I see
a picture of Alan, or every time I see Alan and close encounters come
out with that pipe, or any time I think about Alan, it's just
so emotional for me. It's just it's like, in a way, I
just am tearing out what he started, like you'na did. You're gonna love
this article by Lee Spiegel then, because he did give us some pictures from
the un initiative that include Heinech, and there's some pictures I don't think people
have seen before, and there some really neat pictures of just them on the
general Assembly floor, you know, talking about this stuff. So you're gonna
love those pictures. I also always I don't want people to forget about Heineck
either, because he was so important in this whole thing. Yeah, he
didn't live long enough to see any kind of resolution. I remember he used
to say, I wish I knew what was going on. I wish that
they would tell me, because he believed somebody knew. Yeah, it's funny
because Don Schmid wrote a story for the magazine recently about Heinek, and the
last part was about that emotional piece where Heinick didn't get to see this all
come to fruition and everybody gets emotional when they read that. People get really
sad. Well, Yeah, because you know, he dedicated his life to
He was very open and by the way Alei Hunter, he was perfect,
perfect researcher. He never made value judgments. He never he never belittled anybody.
I never heard him criticize anybody. He was a great listener. He
just sit there and look at you with that pipe and he wouldn't say anything
for like hours and he was just listening and perfect, perfect way of dealing
with things. Were all too often researchers, they make a judgment before they
even get through the whole story. And just in case there are some listeners
who aren't aware. You worked as his assistant for a period of time.
Yeah, from nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty six when he died, and then
you know, in nineteen eighty six, I was so devastated. I don't
want to do anything else in the ufology until I moved to Italy in ninety
two. And then that's when They found me because they knew I had worked
with Allan and that's when it really started over in Europe. But you know,
for people that want to see the ultimate movie about UFOs and the effect
it has on entire families and the effect that has on everybody, even the
government staging of the landing, they need to watch Close Encounters of the Third
Kind and they'll get to see Heinech himself as in this little came Yeah,
he comes out there. Alan told me that originally Spielberg had the aliens taking
the pipe away from him and playing with it, and that that was the
little piece that they cut out of the They gave it to him as a
gift and then I don't know, people knew that Spielberg was on Allen's Center
for UFO Studies. He was on his board of directors. Yeah. Something
I learned on this last interview with Lee Spiegel is that Jacques Vallet, Heinik
and all went out to meet Spielberg in California. He wanted to meet and
talk to him about their un initiative when that was going on. Oh,
there's a lot about Spielberg. Wait out now right. I did want to
mention one more thing about the Arnold. It's really interesting that he thought that
the craft was alive. Of course, Trevor James Constable was a prominent researcher
who talked about that the Space Critters about lots of these UFOs being alive.
And I don't know if you know this, but that one image that Jason
Clellan, you know who works for Open Minds, he got a really good
picture of what he thought was a living entity. He at the UFO.
He thought it was living the way it was moving around the sky like a
jellyfish. Well, so does h So did David Adair didn't He didn't.
He also say he was involved in some you know, hidden projects where he
said that the skin was biological. Uh, you know, it was biological
skin on on the craft. It was not made with metals. But I
don't know. Some kind of biology. And the idea that that the EB
or the extra threscial biological entity and the craft or one means there has to
be some symbiosis or some kind of connection, whether it be electromagnetic or whatever
that does the craft needs to be allowed to respond to the pilot. So
isn't that interesting? That's what that'd be a great new opening for scientists to
look at. Mm hmm, and it's I mean, it would seem as
possible. We're finding life everywhere as a matter of time, Even mainstream scientists
bill it to MA time do we find life on another planet? Why wouldn't
we be able to find it floating around out there in space? I know
there were some Star Trek I think episodes that had stuff like that, and
it seems entirely possible. Well, it is, and I think that we
you just don't understand. You know, we don't understand because we don't have
the science to explain it. But even the balls of light, the pulsating
balls of light around the Fts seventy five and you know that NASA mission,
Maybe that is just the high frequency of a metal craft. And when you
go to a high frequency, if here there is a ball of light,
it is really light, but it's a change of frequency. So we've got
a whole new science he where we could be looking at if we took this
subject seriously right and hopefully that will happen. Well, I'm excited to see
you in a few weeks at the Congress, Like you said, you're going
to be there selling some books. Can I add that I sponsored a Clifford
Stones's book which called Eyes Only, where he talks about his crash retrievals,
including the live and dead entities that he encountered. And I will be at
the table with Clifford, and I'll have my new book and Clifford's new book,
and Clifford will be there in person. Also, Oh great, So
you'll both be there and signing your books and selling your books the whole time.
Yes, we will. And Clifford's book is really an incredible book.
Everybody should have that book in their library. It is the truth about what
he lived. And he will be in person at the International UFL Congress,
will be probably at the book table, both of us. Cool. And
it looks like on your website and I'll tell people again it's p AO l
A H A R R I s dot com Paalaharris dot com. And it
looks like you have some information on Clifford's book at your website. Also,
yes, I do. And for me, these books be in everybody's library
because they are the words of the original person. I mean, we're just
the journalists, but these are the original people, and we you know,
we've got to get them all while they're still all alive and able to speak,
right, And then of course go to star Works USA dot com to
register for this interesting and fun and unique event coming up in May. Yeah.
If they do early bird registration, it's only seventy five dollars. If
they wait too long, it becomes ninety. So I really encourage early bird
registration for this, which is pretty good for three days. Yeah, that's
great. I mean that's a great price. Yeah. So, I mean
it's something different. We're going to have a good time and you know,
hope to see you there. Yes, I hope to be there and with
any luck, I mean they got some big skies out there in Texas.
Maybe people have their own experience, yeah, I hope. So all right,
great, thank you so much for being on the show again, Paulum,
Thank you, Alejandro. Good luck. And if you are intrigued,
you're thinking, who is this guy Clifford Stone? My goodness, this sounds
fascinating. Well, we did interview Clifford on the radio show about a year
or so ago. I think it might have been when we're still UFO Think
Tank. I know in fact it was, I think because I had him
speak at the Roswell Conference a couple of years ago the universary of the Roswell
crash. But anyway, look into the archives for Clifford Stone. You'll find
him there. Listen to the show if you want to know more about him,
and then if you're just like, WHOA, I need to meet these
dudes, then of course you can always register for the conference at ufocongress dot
com. Thank you all for joining us once again. Don't forget to visit
Open Minds dot tv and or no definitely end UFO Daily News dot com for
the latest, look for my Huffington Post blogs, and look for us on
Facebook and Twitter. It's been wonderful and we will see you next week. People,