1 00:00:29,559 --> 00:00:33,359 What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask 2 00:00:33,359 --> 00:00:37,359 Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you want 3 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:42,159 about the National Electrical Code and all things electrically related. Dude, we get 4 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,799 controversial from time to time, So do me a favor. All you gotta 5 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,399 do is go to Paul Abernathy dot com and over there you just simply put 6 00:00:51,399 --> 00:00:55,600 your name in your email address and put in your question and it will go 7 00:00:55,679 --> 00:00:59,640 into the queue, and if selected, it will be used on an upcoming 8 00:00:59,679 --> 00:01:03,239 PODCAS cast. But what I do promise you is that I will respond back 9 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,519 with at least an email if I do not select yours to be used on 10 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:11,200 a podcast. You know, the key thing for me is to make sure 11 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:17,560 that your questions get answered. Okay, so use that portal. It is 12 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,280 free, It is sponsored by Wicks. It doesn't cost you a dime. 13 00:01:21,359 --> 00:01:25,159 You're getting a consultant in your pocket and you're getting it for free. What 14 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,959 else could be better than free? That's right? What else could be better 15 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:38,280 than free? All right? So let's get into the first question that we 16 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,359 have that's been slated for me is oh, and I should remind you if 17 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,519 you are a Fast Tracks member or a part of our family, and you 18 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,879 use the portal, make sure you let me know upfront that you're a student 19 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,359 or a member, or a subscriber or whatever, so that when Darlene is 20 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:00,400 filtering thing about to me, I make sure that she takes yours first. 21 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:06,920 You take precedent over everything. We thank you very much for everybody that supported 22 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,960 us through the years, and know that we're not going anywhere unless I drop 23 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:15,840 dead tomorrow, you know, But Jesus hope that doesn't happen. So, 24 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,599 I mean, there's my haters out there that like that to happen, probably, 25 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,360 But at the end of the day, don't be a hater. So 26 00:02:22,439 --> 00:02:23,520 if you got any questions, make sure you let us know, and if 27 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,919 you remember, please let us know prior to it your question in the comment, 28 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:31,280 so that we know that yours can be elevated. That's the first thing 29 00:02:31,319 --> 00:02:36,639 that she looks for, all right, So the very first one we have 30 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,759 that she's got slated for me. It says Paul from the twenty twenty three 31 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:47,439 code. I have a gutter being fed from a panel ten feet below with 32 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:53,879 one inch emt okay, So mental picture, folks. They has a gutter. 33 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,840 It's being fed from a panel below it, so it's basically a trade 34 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:05,960 size one EMT running up to feed the gutter. Okay, it says, 35 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:10,840 I have a ground bus in the gutter, trying to limit how many grounds 36 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:15,319 are in the panel. Do I need to ground? Do I need a 37 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:22,599 ground in each conduit? If there is no chance of the conduit being broken 38 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:27,800 open and a junction box being added between the gutter and the panels, so 39 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,960 there's nothing they can guarantee that there's nothing that's going to be installed between the 40 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,120 gutter and the panel. I don't not sure how you guarantee that, but 41 00:03:35,479 --> 00:03:38,080 okay, so it says, thank you for your work and your podcast. 42 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:44,680 All right, I appreciate that question. So this is kind of a twofold 43 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:51,800 question here. Equipment grounding conductors are required for every brand circuit. Okay, 44 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,439 However, there are some allowances In two fifty two. It talks about when 45 00:03:57,479 --> 00:04:00,879 you have multiple circuits. So if you got your codebook, and those that 46 00:04:01,039 --> 00:04:06,439 do listen to this podcast and do break out their codebook, you would be 47 00:04:06,479 --> 00:04:14,439 looking at two f two c C talks about multiple circuits. So it says 48 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:20,240 a single equipment ground of conductor shall be permitted to be installed for multiple circuits 49 00:04:20,879 --> 00:04:28,439 that are installed in the same raceway, cable trench, or cable tray. 50 00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:34,839 It shall be sized from table two fifty one two with the largest overcurrent device 51 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:43,040 protecting circuit conductors in the raceway, cable trench or cable tray. Okay, 52 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,879 all right, So then the rest of the part that has to do with 53 00:04:45,959 --> 00:04:48,639 cable trays so that we're not gonna worry about it. Okay. So here's 54 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:56,439 the thing. When you run that raceway up to that gutter, and you're 55 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,439 gonna run multiple branch circuits in it, then you could run one single equipment 56 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:10,160 grounding conductor up there, okay, and it's sized based on whatever the largest 57 00:05:10,319 --> 00:05:15,560 overcurrent device is that's protecting the circuits that are in that raceway. Okay, 58 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,600 So you could you know, if it's a if it's a sixty amp is 59 00:05:21,639 --> 00:05:26,240 the largest one, right, then you go to two fifty sixty six and 60 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,879 size the equipment grounding conductor for that. And again, if it's sixty, 61 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,879 then it's Coppered's ten gage. So that's the largest you'd need. And so 62 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:40,360 if all the other circuits that are in that raceway are smaller, then the 63 00:05:40,439 --> 00:05:44,240 ten is already larger, so it's perfectly fine. If it's a thirty amp, 64 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,600 then it's still going to be a ten. If it's a twenty amp, 65 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,240 it'd be a twelve. So the tin is larger than the twelve, 66 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:53,120 so you'd be fine. That's under that provision. Now if you have separate 67 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,800 raceways that are supplying that gutter, which you kind of you know, didn't 68 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 allude that the way your question is you you basically said you only had one 69 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:08,800 trade size one EMT going up. And if that's the case, then you 70 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:14,800 are allowed to take one properly size for the largest overcurrent protective device and do 71 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:19,720 that. Now. I will remind you something since you're already designing this is 72 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:27,399 that, since you're running EMTs, an EMT in two fifty eighteen is already 73 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,519 listed as a type of equipment ground and conductor. In fact, if you 74 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,079 go look at it, and we're in the twenty twenty three edition of the 75 00:06:34,199 --> 00:06:40,720 NEEC always unless stated otherwise, or the latest edition. If you go look 76 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:46,519 at two fifty, don't one eighteen A four it says electrical metallic tubing. 77 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:55,040 So you don't have to put a wire type equipment ground a conductor in that 78 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,240 if you don't want to. Now most engineers will speck it out. I 79 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:03,199 get it. Just remember that you could use the EMT as your equipment ground 80 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,720 and that would essentially if you ran extra raceways, that would eliminate you having 81 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,399 to put the equipment ground of the wire type in any of those raceways, 82 00:07:12,759 --> 00:07:16,759 as long as everything is bonded together properly, right, follow all the rules 83 00:07:16,759 --> 00:07:25,120 for bonding Part five. So, but remember if you decide to put a 84 00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:30,560 wire type equipment ground in even though the EMT qualifies, if you decide to 85 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,279 put the wire type in, guess what, you still have to size it 86 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:40,279 properly. You get no break for undersizing the wire type if there's a EMT 87 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,639 for example. So a lot of people get that wrong. They think, 88 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,800 well, the EMT is there, if I put an equipment ground in of 89 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,040 the wire type, then it can be smaller than what's required by Table two 90 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:54,879 fifty one twenty two. That is false. Okay, if you're going to 91 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,800 put a wire type equipment ground in there and you're not going to be using 92 00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:01,800 the EMT. For example, is your low impedance effective ground fault current path 93 00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:11,279 which is permitted in the code and listed under again ten A four. You 94 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,920 still if you put the wire in, it still has to be properly sized, 95 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:18,439 so that's like a two fer. That's another myth that people tend to 96 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,680 think that you don't. Your best bet is to just not put the wire 97 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:26,879 type in. And it pains me to say that, but your best bet 98 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,480 is to not put the wire type in and just use the EMT and to 99 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,840 make sure you do everything properly. If you're trying to reduce the number of 100 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,440 equipment grounds, okay, if that's your sole goal in doing that, then 101 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,399 that would be you know, that's something that you could do. Okay, 102 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,720 all right, hopefully that answered your question. Obviously, If anybody's listening to 103 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,840 this episode and there's additional clarity that you need, you know what you can 104 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:54,039 do. All you have to do is take note of this episode number and 105 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,799 go to Paul Abernathy dot com and submit something in the portal. Give me 106 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:03,279 a summary of what you're asking, let me know what it pertains to in 107 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,480 the podcast if you're listening to it, so that I don't have to go 108 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,759 back and re listen, because I'm not gonna do that and ask your question. 109 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,840 And I'm more than happy to elaborate on it. I'll go into more 110 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:20,000 detail. Obviously, in a podcast, I can't cover every possible scenario. 111 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:24,279 And there's always a smart attic out there who wants to bring up the obvious 112 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,039 something that we may not have covered because they have nothing better to do in 113 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,360 their life but critique and never create anything original on their own. So I 114 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,440 get it, and it's okay. I don't mind it. It doesn't bother 115 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:39,279 me at all. All right, Let's go on to another question that was 116 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,840 submitted. All right, So that was a good question, So let's move 117 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:46,399 on to another question. All right. This one was submitted through the portal, 118 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,320 and it is Hello. Hello. First of all, thank you for 119 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,080 the podcast. You're most welcome, and thank you to everybody out there that 120 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,440 listens to our podcast. Again. It is available on all of your favorite 121 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,399 listening places, Spotify, Spreaker, Deezer, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, any 122 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,240 of them have us on it. I personally listen on Spotify and I also 123 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:13,360 connect my phone from Spotify to my Alexa devices. She's sitting over there, 124 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:16,519 so I don't want to set her off, but I do that as well. 125 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:22,120 I send it over there Bluetooth, but I also on your phone, 126 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,840 you can get our mobile app and you can listen on the phone, and 127 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:30,440 you can even send it to your car stereo. Again, we appreciate everybody 128 00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:33,960 that listens to our podcast, and we have over a thousand episodes. So 129 00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:37,759 I challenge you today go back and listen to some of the older episodes, 130 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,960 and if you've got any questions on them, remember just jot down the episode, 131 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,639 give me a brief summary, and ask your of the episode. Then 132 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,799 ask your question and post it over on Paul Abernathy dot com. I'd love 133 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:54,360 to relive some of the old episodes, all right, So this question says 134 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,159 hello, First of all, thank you for the podcast. You've helped me 135 00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:05,759 pass to residential licensing exams and a journeyman exam. WHOA, there you go. 136 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,840 Congratulations. We love to see it, I believe it or not. 137 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,000 I do live vicariously through my students and people that I associate with, and 138 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:22,240 I love to see success stories. I love it. He goes on to 139 00:11:22,279 --> 00:11:26,600 say, it's the twenty twenty three code and he's in Oregon. Okay, 140 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,159 so up in Oregon, all right, So he's asking a question, he 141 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:35,879 says in two twenty five thirty nine, D. It says for all other 142 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,279 installations, it says the feeder or brand circuit disconnecting means shall have a rating 143 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:48,279 of not less than sixty ampiers. Is this code saying that the feeder is 144 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,720 required to be a minimum of sixty ampiers or just the disconnect? Okay, 145 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,879 good question. So what we want to do is we want to go over 146 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:03,480 to two twenty five. I've got thirty nine D, and I remind folks 147 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:07,960 that this is going to be very similar, okay for what you would do 148 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:13,919 over in two thirty as well. Okay for those that wonder. So if 149 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,720 you if you're familiar with how to apply two thirty dot seventy nine, which 150 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:24,559 is the rating of the service disconnecting means, then this will be old hat 151 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,799 for you. Okay, all right, so let's kind of go look at 152 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:33,440 it. I'm going to go to two twenty five and go to thirty nine 153 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:39,639 D and thirty nine D on the first thing you want to notice because in 154 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:45,399 your question you're asking does this apply to the minimum sizing or the feeder or 155 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,879 this applied to the disconnect? Well, the title of it is two twenty 156 00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:54,519 five thirty nine rating of the disconnect Okay, so that's the that's the first 157 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,519 part you see in that it says the rating of the disconnect. Okay, 158 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:07,159 so obviously we're talking about the disconnect rating as well. Okay, So my 159 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:11,919 response to this would be, look in two twenty five dot thirty, it's 160 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,799 referencing the number of supplies that you can have to a detached structure. Okay, 161 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,919 so much like two thirty dot two does for services, So we can 162 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,759 have multiples right now, at the end of the day. The basic rule, 163 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,600 right is that you can have only one branch or one feeder to a 164 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,679 building, but there are some allowances, right that can let you have more. 165 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,240 So now the question really is in this one, it's like, okay, 166 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,799 Paul, does this apply to the circuit or does this apply to just 167 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,320 the disconnecting means. So let's read what it says in two twenty five thirty 168 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,159 nine. It says, and I think it almost went down a different rabbit 169 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,279 hole there, but that's a whole different question about the number of services or 170 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:03,519 the number of brand circuits or feeders to a building. That's probably another episode. 171 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:09,360 Anyway, it says a feeder or brand circuit disconnecting means shall have a 172 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,120 rating of not less than the calculated load to be supplied. So that's the 173 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:16,879 first part of it. So if I've got this detached structure, right, 174 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,519 and that's what two twenty five is, it's obviously outside brands or feeder, 175 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:24,840 so it's got to leave the dwelling or it's leaving the building. It's going 176 00:14:24,879 --> 00:14:30,519 to what it's going to another structure or another building. Those are defined terms 177 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:35,519 in the NEC and it's saying, okay, well, if feeder or brand 178 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:41,440 circuit, then first things first, the feeder the disconnect has to be sized 179 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:46,840 based on what the load that's being served. Okay, so that's the first 180 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,360 part. And how do you determine that? It says in accordance with Part 181 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,279 one or Part two of Article two twenty for brand circuits. Then also if 182 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,120 you're talking about for feeders, then you're going to use Part three or Part 183 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:03,879 four standard we'd call the standard or the optional method. Okay for that. 184 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,200 Now again it says where the brand circuit or feeder disconnecting means consists of more 185 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:15,159 than one switch or circuit breaker as permitted into twenty five dot thirty three, 186 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,639 which means you could have up to six grouped in the same location. Right. 187 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:26,480 Then it says combining the ratings of all the switches or circuit breakers for 188 00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:31,879 determining the rating of the disconnecting means shall be permitted. That's important, okay. 189 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,399 And it says in no case shall the rating be lower than specified in 190 00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:39,919 two twenty five thirty nine A, B, C or D. Okay. 191 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,159 So the first thing is one, we have to calculate the load to the 192 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,360 building, and you're going to size everything according to that load. Right. 193 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,240 The disconnecting means can be made up of multiple switches of multiple circuit breakers. 194 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,440 So unlike with services, where used to be that in a single enclosure you 195 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,679 could have a six disconnect rule. Were that went away, Okay, you 196 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,480 can't have in a single enclosure. You can't have six disconect rules for the 197 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:10,919 service, but you still can do that for the feeder. Why is that 198 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,159 because you're able to shut it off upstream, so there's no hazard at those 199 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,240 lugs because you could shut it off, So that six disconnect rule doesn't apply 200 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:25,919 to the feeder. That applies to the service. Okay. So first point, 201 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,799 So I could have up to six switches of circuit breakers. Okay, 202 00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:32,759 So that's important to remember, Okay, or I could have just one. 203 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:40,000 So when you look at ABC and D, okay, number one or A 204 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,679 is one circuit installation. Okay, So this is obviously one for brand circuit. 205 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,720 So if I had a detached structure we're building, it's okay to for 206 00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:56,519 the installation of supply only limited loads of a single brand circuit. The brand 207 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,759 circuit disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than fifteen ampiers. So 208 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:07,160 this is an example where I might feed a detached structure just maybe it's a 209 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,599 garage, and I would simply feed it and put it on. If it's 210 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,000 a brand circuit, I might hit something as simple as a snap switch that's 211 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:21,119 rated fifteen ampiers. That's my disconnecting means. That's it. I'm not putting 212 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,000 a panel in. I'm just putting a brand circuit in. And we already 213 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:29,039 had that allowance in the code for being able to run a single branch circuit 214 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:33,519 to a detached structure in Okay, So that's what we did, and so 215 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,799 fifteen amps would be perfectly fine for that. The next one was b It 216 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:44,640 says, well, two circuit installations all right, says for installations consisting of 217 00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:51,759 not more than two two wire branch circuits. The feeder or brand circuit disconnecting 218 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:56,880 means shall have a rating of not less than thirty ampiers. So thirty is 219 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,519 the minimum threshold. I could have not more than two separate circuits running to 220 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,519 the building. Okay, all right, so again in this case the disconnecting 221 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:14,720 means, should I have a rating not less than thirty amps Here's interesting though, 222 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,200 remember what we saw earlier about they could have up to six in the 223 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,480 same enclosure. This would qualify me if I had a panel and I had 224 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:30,720 two circuit breakers in each one was rated fifteen ampiers. Right, fifteen and 225 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:36,480 fifteen is thirty. That's what that meant in that charging statement. Okay, 226 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:40,400 let's go on. So the next one would be a one family dwelling. 227 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,960 For a one family dwelling, the feeder disconnecting means. And this is an 228 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:48,640 example where you might be coming in and now you're let's say your service is 229 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,640 in a garage. And this is a unique situation, and I've done a 230 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,640 few of these. The service to the house is actually in the detached garage, 231 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,160 and then it's a feeder that's leaving the garage in supplying power to the 232 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:04,599 dwelling unit. Okay. If that's the case, then you would be using 233 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,279 C And it says for a one family dwelling, the feeder disconnecting means, 234 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:11,720 shall I have a rating of not less than one hundred ampiers. Now that 235 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:17,799 is very consistent with what we saw in two thirty seventy nine. Okay, 236 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,519 so at least one hundred. Now interesting here is if it's a feeder to 237 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,000 that dwelling, then I could still utilize the six disconnect rule. I just 238 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:32,799 can't do that in a single enclosure in a service. Okay. Now, 239 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,960 don't get disconfused with the ability to have six separate enclosures, because that's still 240 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,839 allowed for services. And okay, so don't get confused. Don't let the 241 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,960 mind start wandering all over the place. And then the last one is all 242 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:51,759 others. Now, this applies to all others that's not covered here, and 243 00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:59,720 it says for all other installations, the feeder or brand circuit disconnecting means shall 244 00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:06,519 have it rating of not less than sixty ampiers. Okay, So think about 245 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:11,599 it this way. Sixty is the minimum size for your disconnecting means, but 246 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,200 you have to size everything based on what a load calculation you have to service 247 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:22,440 the load at that structure. Okay, but in all cases, the disconnecting 248 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:30,799 means, the rating of the disconnecting means cannot be what cannot be less than 249 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,680 sixty ampiers. So you're going to be sizing your conductors based on your load, 250 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,920 right, and you're gonna be protecting that feeder at its opacity by the 251 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:45,759 breaker that's supplying that feeder, right. So all this is is a disconnecting 252 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:52,240 means at that detached structure. That feeder is or is already protected. So 253 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:56,480 there we're just talking disconnecting means. So you've already sized your conductors based on 254 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,200 the calculated load. You've already sized your overcurrent device to protec that conductor that's 255 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,319 the feeder, and now we're just talking about the disconnecting means that is in 256 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,880 that detached structure. And this tells you that if it's not a B or 257 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,839 C, then it cannot be what it cannot be less than sixty amps. 258 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,359 Could it be more than that, yes, but it can't be less than 259 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:22,519 sixty amps. You with me, Okay? All right, hopefully that answered 260 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:26,319 your question on that one great question. By the way, I love getting 261 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:32,079 these questions, and I think we've done twenty one minutes in this recording. 262 00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:33,799 I think we have time for one more, So we're gonna get one more 263 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:38,880 into this episode here. So let me look for that for you, all 264 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:42,200 right, So let's pick it on up here to the next question that was 265 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,680 submitted, and I'm gonna remind you folks again. All you got to do 266 00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:48,880 is go to Paul Abernathy dot com. Dude, it's free, doesn't cost 267 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:56,240 you anything to submit questions to me. So this question says, I have 268 00:21:56,279 --> 00:22:02,240 a question about available fault current. Okay, so questions about available fault current. 269 00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:10,039 It says I recently had a contractor perform a calculation on a new one 270 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:17,319 hundred amp service for a digital billboard. Okay. It says the calculation came 271 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:23,359 out to ten thousand and seventy amps. It says the main breaker has an 272 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:32,039 interrupted rating of twenty two thousand amps. The brand circuit feeder breakers have a 273 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:38,119 ten thousand amp rating. Is this installation compliant because of the twenty two k 274 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:47,279 AIC rating? Or is the rating of the entire panel board ten k because 275 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:56,200 the lowest installed value on the branch circuit breaker? Great question? Okay, 276 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,400 great question, So let me answer this. Now, this individual I have 277 00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:06,039 emailed back. I already gave them a response. Okay, so I'll elaborate 278 00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:10,119 here, read you my response so that you kind of can get a feel 279 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:15,559 of this I put you know, the panel in question, is that panel? 280 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,079 The first thing you have to look at is that a series rated panel 281 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:25,039 and is it marked as such. If that is the case, then the 282 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,839 main would permit lower values onto the circuit breakers installed in that entire enclosure in 283 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,400 cabinet. So the first thing that you need to do is you need to 284 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,799 go look and see whether or not it's stated in the legend whether it is 285 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:47,960 a series rated panel board. Okay. Now, in those series rated systems, 286 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:55,799 the upstream device effectively reduces the ai C okay to the downstream device. 287 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,920 That's the whole process of it being series rated and evaluated as such. However, 288 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,359 this is not the case if it is not series rated. That's important. 289 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,480 So if it is not series rated, then what happens. Well, 290 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,960 if you have a panel that it is not series rated, then the circuit 291 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,079 breakers that are limited to ten K must not be exposed to a value that 292 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:26,359 will do what exceed ten K. So important to remember now, in a 293 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,519 series rated enclosure. Everything that gets done. Then it's designed to have a 294 00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:36,480 main breaker rating and it's designed to have other overcurrent devices that are installed on 295 00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:40,480 the bus. Okay, that's how they're designed. That's what the series rating 296 00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:45,680 is. Now, one of the things that I'll direct you to is two 297 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,039 forty eight six B and I'm in the twenty three edition of the e NEC. 298 00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:55,759 It talks about the testing and the series ratings of panel boards and such, 299 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:02,279 and will also have an informational note which direct reshe to one ten dot 300 00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:07,079 twenty two as well, and more specifically it talks about one ten dot twenty 301 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:11,599 two C. So if the if it is series rated and it is listed 302 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,759 in marked as such, then you're good to go, right, no problem. 303 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,920 If it's not marked series rated, then you must ensure that the AAI 304 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,240 C that it's going to be imposed onto those devices that have a lower AIC 305 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,119 rating are not exceeded. So that's important thing. Now, where could this 306 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,480 come into play? Okay, So this could come into play where I have 307 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,119 a panel with a main breaker only and then I have a panel right next 308 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,400 to it and we don't have any series ratings going on. Then you could 309 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,759 have the potential and This is something we talked about earlier when it was talking 310 00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:53,440 about SPDEs and that ten kai c that was that they wanted to get rid 311 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,119 of, and some of the manufacturers said no, no, no, no 312 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:03,960 no, because depending on its proximity, it could see available fault current that 313 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,839 is higher than that. So it's important that it has a minimum rating correct. 314 00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:14,119 So in this case, if you don't have any series rating is involved, 315 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,279 and your AIC rating is going to potentially exceed the rating of a device, 316 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,160 then that would be a problem, okay. But in a series rating 317 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,039 equipment and how that's installed, if you have a main breaker that's twenty two 318 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,599 KIC and you have a circuit breaker that's installed on the bus that's associated with 319 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,559 that breaker, and they are series rated, then it would be okay for 320 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:40,880 that ten KIC circuit breaker to be installed on in that bust because that whole 321 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,359 thing has been listed and it's all been evaluated as a series rating. So 322 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,039 make sure you check that out in your panel. Hey, do yourself a 323 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:52,440 favor, folks, go out to your panel right now if you're an electrician, 324 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,119 and open it up. Be careful and look at and see as is 325 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:03,200 your current panel series rated, and let us know over on Paul abernaty dot 326 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,359 com or in the comments to these videos or this podcast. I should say, 327 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,279 all right, folks, that's all I've got for this episode. I 328 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,200 appreciate everybody that listened to the podcast. Remember we still have a bunch of 329 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:22,599 goodies over on fasttracks system dot com. We have the minimalist wallets available. 330 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:26,759 We will customize these. We have some great blogs. Make sure you download 331 00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:29,559 our mobile app. It's free. Just go to our website you'll see the 332 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:33,000 link. Until then, if you've got any questions, do me a favor. 333 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,480 Go to Paul abernaty dot com. Till next time, Stay say folks, 334 00:27:36,559 --> 00:28:04,279 God bless mask. Nohing do