WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:34.200 Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to another night at the Roundtable. Gentlemen, 2 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:38.799 please introduce yourselves. Hi. I'm David Flora. I'm the host of the 3 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:45.399 Blurry Photos podcast. Oh hi, I also co host Hysteri fifty one in 4 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:50.679 Quiz Quiz Bang Bang. I also have five minute frights and that's me. 5 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.719 So it's any zinger from the zing this podcast. I think I can officially 6 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:59.039 say I have the best hair on this episode. You're the only one with 7 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:06.280 hair on Hey, Hey, I win things by default. Okay, yeah, 8 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.560 I'm visiting this podcast, and yeah, we talked about pop culture and 9 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:14.079 stuff. And I don't have a laundry list like David does, so yeah, 10 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.000 oh wait, no wait I do. I also do a Star Wars 11 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.799 podcast called Nights of Vader. There I got to I got too, And 12 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:23.879 of course I am Derek Kay's of Monsters among Us podcast. And we've assembled 13 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.959 here tonight's to review yet to another film. Now we've flipped the lights in 14 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:33.159 the theater on, we've dusted off the seats and pop some popcorn and sat 15 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:38.000 down to watch the Unbinding the new Kirk's brand new documentary. Gentlemen, let's 16 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.120 start off with initial thoughts, Uh, justin, David, you go first, 17 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:46.120 We'll see. We'll see what David has to say. I just wanted 18 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:49.599 to sea, Yeah, I just want to keep just on his toes. 19 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.560 Tonight, David hit us first and in justin, Just what did you guys 20 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.239 think? Initially watching this thing? I thought this was a very compelling story. 21 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:05.920 They told about an object that me or may not have been cursed it. 22 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.000 It kept my attention throughout. I thought it was beautifully shot, well 23 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:15.960 done, so I I enjoyed it. So for me going into this cursed 24 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:20.039 object stuff like that, it's not something I really put a lot of stock 25 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:27.599 in. As the episode, I mean sorry, As the documentary film continued, 26 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.159 I became more invested. Much like their Hell Your documentary, it kind 27 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:37.520 of draws you in and keeps drawing you in a little bit more with you 28 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:40.319 kind of figuring out more of what's going on with it. So, I 29 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:44.719 mean, I enjoyed it by the end of it. The start was where 30 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.080 it was like, oh, it's a possessed item. I'm like, okay, 31 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.680 because that's not high on my list of paranormal stuff, but I know 32 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.680 other people's are, so, Like I said, it drew me in and 33 00:02:53.759 --> 00:03:00.240 kept me captivated. So they really dangle that that lead out there in front 34 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.759 of you, don't they Every Every time you're okay, what's going on? 35 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.800 Now, there's another piece of information that seems to drop that's like okay, 36 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:08.759 Well it moves you forward in the story, and that's exactly how that's supposed 37 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:13.680 to work. I guess my thought was, I'm familiar with this story. 38 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.039 I remember hearing them talk about it. Man, I don't know, four 39 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:21.439 or five years ago on I want to say Bigfoot Collectors Club, that guys 40 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.039 over there have them on on occasion. Anyway, I remember hearing the story, 41 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:29.080 so for me, it was fun to actually get to see this idol 42 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.080 or what they ended up calling it. They called it the Krone. We'll 43 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:35.479 get into that here in a second. But what is that epigy idol? 44 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:39.319 Yeah, it's a little carved wooden carved goddess figure. There you go. 45 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:44.000 That nails it, And I guess we should segue this into some sort of 46 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:51.800 we should segue into some sort of synopsis, and I guess I'll try to 47 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:58.039 deliver it best I can without any spoilers, of course. So initially the 48 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.919 film begins with a group of hikers that in the Catskill Mountains and they uncover 49 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:06.240 this strange carving in a cave and they reach out to well, they reach 50 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:10.080 out to Reddit, I believe, and that's where the New Kirks kind of 51 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:15.960 find this information. And somehow, one way or another, the gentleman ends 52 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:19.800 up sending the effigy off to the New Kirks that they have it in their 53 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:25.319 possession. So the film essentially is kind of following the research of what this 54 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:31.000 thing might be, trying to recreate the item to save it, because ultimately 55 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.000 they want to take it back and put it back in the cave where they 56 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.120 found it or where it was found I suppose. So the whole thing is 57 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:42.600 just kind of the journey of this carving and you know what it's about and 58 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.920 where it ends up, and fair enough snops Us. They get around to 59 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:54.600 some Slavic folklore and mythology, and my ears kind of perked up at that 60 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:01.600 the name Baba Yaga came up. I don't know that it was necessarily necessary 61 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:08.079 to the figure itself, but it opened the door for them to find out 62 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.079 more about where this could have come from, or at least the idea of 63 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.279 and what the figure represented so I really appreciated the Slavic mythology, folklore and 64 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:24.439 stuff that they But you know that old mythology folklore, the mythology and the 65 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:30.040 folklore that they brought up in it, I thought that was really cool to 66 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.639 draw from. So I appreciated that. You know, Another thing I like 67 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:39.639 about it, and I'm a very visual guy. Just the area where this 68 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.680 takes place, the Catskill Mountains or like, I've never been there, but 69 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.120 it looks spooky as hell, and all this footage that they shot. And 70 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:47.759 of course they shot in like October or something, so it was like the 71 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.360 perfect time of year to shoot in a place like that. But frankly, 72 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.959 I might have to go visit, you know, Central New York or the 73 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.480 Finger Lakes or wherever the region is the cat Skills, I guess, because 74 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.560 it just looked amazing to me. Reminded me of Ohio beck Home. I 75 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:06.079 was about to say. The other thing that got me was the timeline of 76 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:13.600 this was interesting because if I'm correct, all this took place before they did 77 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.000 Hellyer. I think, because I had that question as well. I think 78 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:24.879 that Hellier started a little earlier with the emails and stuff. But this was 79 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:29.319 either right, on top of it or right with it when they because helier 80 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:33.759 came out and I think twenty nineteen you are correct, and they had mentioned 81 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:40.519 something maybe about receiving emails and stuff in twenty twelve even maybe Well it seems 82 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.240 like both stories were going on, you know, at the same time. 83 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.600 They were dealing with both at the same time. Well, the thing that 84 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.279 got me is Greg looked really young in a lot of the like a lot 85 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.680 of the footage. That's why I was like, is this just weird? 86 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.439 Does he look way younger? And I kept having to remind myself, this 87 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:04.040 is before a lot of stuff that we see like now from them and everything. 88 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:08.439 So that was just something that I just had to keep reminding myself that 89 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.639 this takes place before, like a lot of events take place before, and 90 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.759 I guess a lot of the filming they did took place before the events of 91 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.720 Hell Here, which, like, I'm not super familiar with the New Kirks 92 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:25.680 prior to hell Youer per Se. So like I said, it's just Hellure 93 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.399 was my introduction to them for the most part and from then on, so 94 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:33.120 I didn't know that they were this involved in the paranormal scene. And I 95 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:40.079 guess the convention scene too, with their little setting up the at the what 96 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.720 was it the Michigan, Michigan, Michigan. We should probably work our way 97 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:48.120 into talking about their museum a little bit. It's called the Traveling Museum of 98 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.959 the Paranormal and the Occult. Is that a Cincinnati, But it's a traveling 99 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.759 museum. I guess they have it all over the place. I've never seen 100 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.519 it, you know, I've never experienced it, but just looking at some 101 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:01.600 of the stuff that they had in the footage incredible. I mean I was 102 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.079 pretty jealous of some of the pieces that they had. Yeah, they've collected 103 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.079 a lot of a lot of cool stuff. Yeah, is it? Zach 104 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.839 Baggins is the other guy that does like the collection of like haunted items. 105 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:18.759 Yeah. Okay, he has a museum in Vegas. Okay, Derek, 106 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.160 you've been there, right there, you go wearing the shirt we have the 107 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.920 T shirt on synchronicity. Guys, synchronicity, What a great thing to have 108 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.679 in a complete audio medium. I mean, I'm wearing micir then no one 109 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.519 can see. Well, they've seen you too, so they so they know 110 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.039 I automatically win on the pet hair facial hair. I think I will never 111 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.279 beat Flora. So but but getting back to this, like, like I 112 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:48.279 said, it was just like something that was interesting with all that. And 113 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.080 I'm wondering because you guys are more clued into this, that that whole event 114 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:58.559 of when they like took it out at the convention and like everything went, 115 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:03.360 Hey, why that's when you guys had heard about before, because you guys 116 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.240 have your fingers vaguely closer to the polls of this stuff that I do. 117 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.279 I don't know, you mean this exact event or or something like it. 118 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.279 Well, no, no, no, the event of like the guy having 119 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.919 like a seizure, bleeding from the mouth, all this that that whole crazy 120 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.720 thing on once they drink was spilled. Now to let people that aren't going 121 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.399 to watch the film or whatever in on what we're talking about this effigy, 122 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.600 they put it in a box, and I guess that's their way of, 123 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.120 well, we'll get to why, we'll get to why they put in a 124 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.759 box on a second problem. Oh yeah, we probably should do that too. 125 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.960 But anyway, they put it in a box, lock it up, 126 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.759 and they took it with them in the museum, and I guess some guy 127 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.000 kept asking, Hey, I want to see it. I want to see 128 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:43.720 it. I want to see it. Finally they gave in, They're like, 129 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:48.080 okay, fine. They opened the box and I guess there was some 130 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.039 sort of energy that just went through the room. There was drinks that were 131 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.440 spilled, and then a guy down the end of the hallway had some sort 132 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:58.639 of seizure and just started vomity. Blood or something. I can't re there 133 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.200 was blood involved somehow, So that's that's what Justin's talking about there. I 134 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.240 was not familiar with it. I've never been to Michigan Pericon. They've yet 135 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.240 to invite me. I don't I don't go to Michigan very often for personal 136 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:20.600 reasons, for special sorts reasons, especially this time, especially this time of 137 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.519 year. Anyhow, I did hear other people talk about it online though, 138 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.039 that it did happen. So there are why they didn't have those those witnesses 139 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.679 in the film. I think that would have been powerful. Maybe they couldn't 140 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.279 get them or whatever. I know how that is. But I did hear 141 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.840 other people talking about being there and just how weird it was, that there 142 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.039 was something strange going on, So that is backed up a little bit there. 143 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:52.399 Yeah, so I guess we should get into like what this effigy that 144 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.480 they found or that was sent to them was doing or allegedly doing to the 145 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:05.159 people who came into possession of it, much like a divic box. Also 146 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.440 at Zach Beggins. Yeah, yeah, very true. Wait doesn't he have 147 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.200 the doll too? No? No, I don't think so. That's the 148 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.759 Warren's Museum. Okay, sorry, and he's got island or something. Yeah, 149 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:20.159 he does have dolls. I mean there are hundreds of them in that 150 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.320 building, but not the not Robert or Annabelle I think of the two famous 151 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.320 ones. But as far as the activity is concerned, once they had the 152 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.919 creature sent to them, the creature, once they hud the carving scent to 153 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.039 them, they would hear like strange sounds and I guess water was associated with 154 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:41.360 it. They would find wet footprints and like water dripping in different surfaces. 155 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.399 You know. They did some digging and it found out that there was some 156 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.080 David, you should take over here because this is definitely in your territory. 157 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.600 But it was. It was a little confusing because they brought up a goddess 158 00:11:52.639 --> 00:12:01.120 by the name of Mokash and they they said at one point she was goddess 159 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:07.799 of witches, I think, or something something paranormal like that of women who 160 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:15.840 practice magic. And I looked at that a little bit, and I couldn't 161 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:22.000 find a solid connection between this goddess and witchcraft, except for maybe divination. 162 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:30.200 Sometimes she was because she was a goddess of several things, fertility, something 163 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.240 like water right, well, they say moisture, but I get the sense 164 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:39.639 that it was like rains for crops. I don't know, it could just 165 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:46.279 be straight up wet or you know, moisture and but whatever. And so 166 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.639 they talked about that and the fate aspect of this goddess who was like the 167 00:12:50.679 --> 00:13:00.480 main mother goddess of Slavic mythology. Uh, there was this connection to knowing 168 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:05.879 the future a little bit because she spun the threat of fate, and the 169 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:11.360 divination aspect came from that angle of it. So I didn't see much else 170 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.559 in terms of witchcraft or you know, being kind of a patron of that. 171 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:20.080 She was a protector goddess protected women in particular and especially during childbirth. 172 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:28.679 So I think they tied the story of Mokosh into this by saying it was 173 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:33.480 Mocosh who was bound in this effigy and it could have been by Vellus. 174 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:43.519 I think the there's an underworld god who in one story captures Mokash takes her 175 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.159 up a mountain, and then the god Perun, the thunder god, who 176 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:52.919 was kind of the main who was like the Zeus figure, was the husband 177 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:58.159 of Mokash, and had to cut open the stomach of Vellas to get her 178 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:03.600 out because she had been kidnapped. Right, yeah, just like you do. 179 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:11.320 Who hasn't cut open a god's stomach before? So they then they brought 180 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.120 up this other creature called a kiki mora, which is kind of like a 181 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:20.000 There are a couple types, but their household spirits, from my understanding, 182 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.519 and one of them in particular, comes from swamps. And that's where you 183 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:33.799 get this dripping wet type of entity that leaves footprints and wears moss and grass 184 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:39.960 and stuff, and sometimes can kidnap children if as I as I read up 185 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.559 on it, if the household is kind of in disarray, if the woman 186 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:50.200 doesn't do her duties, if the man cautionary, it's abusive, Yeah, 187 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.759 I think so, And it can still children. So that's the thing that 188 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.039 they they eventually, I think, got around to saying, was coming out 189 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.639 of this thing when people experienced stuff. So it was a little confusing in 190 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.480 there, but I don't know, I appreciate the mythology of it. Yeah, 191 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:09.120 no, I was. I was pretty confused myself. I was unsure 192 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.159 if they were trying to say that Mokosh is that is that right, okay, 193 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:20.000 if if the carving was containing or possessed by Mokosh, or if it 194 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.320 was something similar, you know, or also if the carving itself was of 195 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.919 Mokash. So there was a I feel like I should have watched it twice, 196 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.679 honestly, but I didn't have the time for that. But I was 197 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.080 a little confused as to where that tie in was. So that's that's certainly 198 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:37.799 helpful that you re explained that. Yeah, I think it was of her, 199 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.679 Yeah, but it also contained her. But then there was this other 200 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:46.519 creature sorry, yeah, got involved was thrown in there at some point. 201 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.639 Well again, that was the gateway to kind of got them, you know, 202 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.519 to find this really because they didn't know what to look for. And 203 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.279 I'll give a little bit away that when they go to take it back, 204 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.080 they realized that it's a Ukrainian settlement there. Ukrainian Americans kind of live in 205 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:04.639 this area, so then that kind of like, oh, well, maybe 206 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:08.639 we should look in Ukrainian folklore, and that's sort of they backtracked into what 207 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:14.840 they did find. It's all very fascinating and like justin out of my wheelhouse 208 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.200 as well, like I'm not much into the mythology or cursed objects or anything 209 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.200 like that either, but it's certainly interesting. I want to ask go ahead, 210 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.399 justin no, no, go ahead, to go ahead. You might 211 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.480 be asking my question, but I'll say it if you don't, well, 212 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:33.480 I just wanted to ask what you guys thought of the Esta's method session that 213 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.960 they did. Now, for people that don't know the estas method is, 214 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.440 I can't remember who came up with it, one of the guys from the 215 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:45.360 film here, but basically, you put headphones in a blindfold on and you 216 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.200 do the radio scan what do they call a spirit box or whatever they call 217 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.840 those things. So you're just listening to a radio scan channel to channel like 218 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.960 every half a second or something, and then you shout out what you hear, 219 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.720 but you can't communicate with everybody else in the room and they're talking to 220 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.840 this. So anyway, they do this in a hotel trying to communicate with 221 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.400 the carving or what's held within, And I'll be honest with you, I 222 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.599 think the Estes method and the spirit Box, both of them are kind of 223 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.200 BS in my opinion. That said, that session was pretty impressive. The 224 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.160 way things lined up to me was pretty impressive. So I wanted to get 225 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:27.039 you guys's input on there, your thoughts. Like I've witnessed people doing the 226 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:33.079 spirit box before, ironically at Mothman and one of the bunkers, and it 227 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.039 was one of those things. I was sitting at a distance from it cause 228 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:40.279 I was like sitting like right near the door they were inside, and they 229 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.400 had it going and it was echoing all around in one of the bunkers, 230 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:48.759 and there was people that that would yell out periodically, Oh I heard this. 231 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.000 I heard that. I'm like, I heard nothing. So it's not 232 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.880 high on my list of like believability when it's just like just thrown out there 233 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:03.960 and having everyone interpreting. I think having one person focus on it is probably 234 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:08.359 a little bit more in line with something I think that isn't as BS as 235 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.559 just having it just to where anyone can hear what they want from it. 236 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.119 And I know, if I remember correctly, I think they used this in 237 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:21.759 hell here as well, this method, and it was kind of compelling. 238 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.640 And I do want to point out though we haven't described what this effigy looks 239 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.400 like, by the way, which I think should be noted. On what 240 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:36.319 this thing looks like. If you don't mind it, I'll describe it real 241 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:41.160 quick to the best of my abilities. It is this I want to say, 242 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.359 like about eight inch tall eight inch to a foot tall wooden carving of 243 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:52.640 a female. And it has a little noose around its neck as well as 244 00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:04.279 multiple nails driven into its eyes. So it looks very it doesn't. Yeah, 245 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.440 I was I was gonna say, it's not something super complex, it's 246 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.680 very simple. It's very I want to say, not trying to bury the 247 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:18.359 lead here, but it's something that would be of its like as David was 248 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.319 describing, I would believe like if you found something like this in a Slavic 249 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.279 you know, I don't want to say like burial mound or something, but 250 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:30.279 something to where like archaeologists would discover this in like an old settlement or something. 251 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.920 It's it's enough in line with that that it's believable in that point once 252 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.920 you find that out later. But like I said it's creepy too, because 253 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.640 it's not something i'd want to just have hanging out around my house. The 254 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.200 noose and the nails are separate. They were added to it. We should 255 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.920 say they weren't carved up, but that was the But that was something that 256 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.839 could have been what was it if I got it correctly, that was them, 257 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.519 not them as in the New Kirks. But whoever did was binding, 258 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:07.240 yeah, something into this effigy, into this object. So I just wanted 259 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.039 to give a quick description for people who might not watch this or or wanted 260 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.119 to see how accurate we could describe it. And we'll put a picture up 261 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.880 in the show notes where I will at least I can't speak for these jabrons, 262 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.640 but I'll put one up. I'll copy and paste from Derek, so 263 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:25.400 I will have it up as well. Share the link there you get, 264 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.039 David, I want to know what you thought about the ESDA method. I 265 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:36.240 agree with you guys how it was. It's compelling to watch. I can't 266 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:41.759 get there personally with believing that it works or you know, does anything. 267 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:51.599 I think I would be more impressed by it if the questioners and the person 268 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.480 doing it were in two separate rooms where they couldn't hear. And I know 269 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:02.079 that the people who use it on that we've seen have soundproofing headphones and all 270 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:07.079 that stuff, But personally, I would put more stock in it if they 271 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.039 were separate. Now I don't know the rules of ghostdom where if you're in 272 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:15.640 a different room with the object, will it even work if the spirit box 273 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.359 is in a different room. But it's like spectrum Wi Fi. It only 274 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:25.920 goes through one wall and that's it. But drywall just eats up the Esti's 275 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:33.039 method. So yeah, I I But I will say that in this and 276 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.160 in Hellure, to be honest, the narrative and the storytelling of it is 277 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:45.920 very compelling and gets creepy real fast. Yeah yeah, I'll tell you what 278 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.279 my issue is with it, and it's the the manipulation of it by the 279 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.319 spirits, I guess. So the thing is, it's just a regular radio 280 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.359 and it's programmed to skip every station. I don't know how many stations are. 281 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.440 It goes from eighty nine to one oh five or something like that on 282 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.720 the FM scale, and just at every quarter of a second, half of 283 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.440 a second, it'll hit that channel and whatever's there just goes. So for 284 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.079 me in the back of my head, they're just hearing or we're all just 285 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.200 hearing, you know, radio DJ saying half a phrase and then somebody else 286 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.200 is another half a phrase and you put it together. Now I see why 287 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.079 people pull words out of this. Where I'm having an issue is where how 288 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.319 does the ghost manipulate what's going to be on the radio? Because we already 289 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.240 know it skips in order. It doesn't just skip around randomly. It skips 290 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:40.039 in order eighty nine, nine, ninety point one, ninety point two. 291 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:42.240 It just skips all the way through and then loops back around. So there's 292 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:47.400 no manipulation to be had unless they can go to the radio station and force 293 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.400 a DJ to say a certain phrase. It just doesn't pan out for me. 294 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.079 And I understand people's enthusiasm because you get the results. There's actually something 295 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.240 there for you to hear. But I just have a hard time getting around 296 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.160 that. I haven't spent enough time around it or done enough research you know 297 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.559 about it. But for me, that was one of the least believable parts 298 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.960 of the film. But like I said, that session, there were so 299 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:17.559 many things that lined up. It was in my head. It almost has 300 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.640 to me. Two things like they know what's going on. It's scripted out, 301 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.160 which it didn't seem like that's what it was, or there was some 302 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.519 sort of strange communication going on there. That's literally what it seemed like. 303 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.680 And I again, I'm still skeptical, so in the back of my head 304 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.480 like there's no way this works, but that's how it seemed. I highly 305 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.640 encourage people to check that scene out, because I mean it was just back 306 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.559 and forth, just like a regular conversation, and to the point where I 307 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.480 forgot that Dana had headphones on and couldn't hear what was going on, and 308 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.440 it was just it was so fluid and so quick back and forth. I'm 309 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.200 like, oh, this is it caught my attention. I guess the best 310 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.119 way to say that I would be very interested to try that for myself, 311 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.640 to try that method. Yeah. Now, I I think that they would 312 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:08.119 say there might be a component to it of sensitivity, that it works better 313 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:14.480 with people who might be sensitive to other worldly things, and I don't think 314 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:18.559 I would fall into that category, but I would be willing to try it 315 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:23.200 and see how it goes. Sounds like another special episode for us coming up. 316 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:33.599 Yay, just radio static for a whole hour. So my question to 317 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.240 you two is this is what I was going to ask. So Derek did 318 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.119 not hit my question. But I guess at the at the base of this 319 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:47.759 whole thing is how much stocked you two? Not from this instance. I 320 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.079 mean, if you want to take this instance, sure put in cursed objects 321 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.680 or possessed objects. Hmm, Well I'll start. I actually have a quick 322 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.920 little story I used to go because I want to go with David. First, 323 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.519 David, let me know what. I used to work in an office 324 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.160 down in LA and there was like forty people in that office or something, 325 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.319 and it was we made films, and we made some pretty big films. 326 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:15.799 So there was a lot of money coming in and out. Didn't come to 327 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.680 me, but it went to somebody. So there were a lot of gifts 328 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.480 that were given out, especially this time of year, I mean box after 329 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.839 box. And when I first started working, there was a pa in. 330 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:29.839 My job was to deliver all these boxes and one of them came from a 331 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:33.960 foreign client. We did foreign sales there. I don't even know what country 332 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.960 it came from, somewhere in Asia and they sent I'm going to show you 333 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.000 guys, and I'll post pictures of this as well, but they sent this 334 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:49.759 little guy and it's just like this ah hack, no sculpting wizard looking guy 335 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.519 with a huge hat on. Now when you pull his hat, it's a 336 00:25:53.559 --> 00:26:00.160 knife. There's a knife his hat. So anyway, this thing passed around 337 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.240 twenty different offices. Nobody went. They were terrified of this thing. Everybody 338 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.359 was trying to get rid of it. And I found it in the trash 339 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.720 and I'm like, this is going home with me. So I took the 340 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.559 oat of the mailroom trash and I still have it, like ten years later 341 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.680 or whatever. I don't have a clue where this thing came from. It. 342 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.359 There's nothing written on it. It's just this weird looking little wizard with 343 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.880 like some fake hair. It's probably real hair, but hair sticking out. 344 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.759 And then when you pull on his head, he becomes a knife, like 345 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.559 a letter opener or something. So anyway, that's my brush with a cursed 346 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.640 object that has n't well. I've had really bad luck to pass five or 347 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.519 six years, so maybe it does bring bad luck, but uh, that's 348 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.720 my brush with cursed objects. And I have a handful of listeners that say 349 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.079 they're gonna send me something, but I've yet to receive it, And Sarah's 350 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.279 real happy about that because she got mad that I was willing to accept any 351 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.240 haunted objects. She's like, not in my house, but put out in 352 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.440 the recording shed. Well, I'm in the bay, but I can do 353 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.599 whatever I want down here. This is my layer. That's why he's doing 354 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:08.440 here and not upstairs. David, what about you. I don't put much 355 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:17.160 stock in cursed objects. I I the closest I think I could come to 356 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:22.440 that is people that are cursed just people that have bad luck. They're they're 357 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.119 clumsy, they break stuff or stuff breaks around them, stuff doesn't work. 358 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.599 They they find things missing a lot, like there are people that I've observed 359 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:38.960 that have had because you just described, I don't know, how's your microwave 360 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:45.680 doing. That's everything else is broken the microwave, your computer, Uh, 361 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:49.880 you have issues with so yeah, so it's almost late to this recording because 362 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.920 it would not start up. And that's you know, something that that has 363 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:59.720 been happening lately. But you know, the the objects and stuff I you'd 364 00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:06.799 have to to reproduce a lot in front of me to to get stuff to 365 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:11.480 to get me to believe this stuff. So for example, if you if 366 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.559 you have a voodoo doll something like that, or or a like some an 367 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:22.279 object from like ben In or West Africa. They they would often drive nails 368 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:27.839 into stuff for a variety of reasons. I don't think it was always negative, 369 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.960 but because it looked scary, right, that's what it looks. It 370 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.119 looks crazy, but it's but it's a way I'm I'm trying to remember exactly 371 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.319 what, because I've done a couple of episodes on that, and it was 372 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:48.359 it was a way too oh boy, try to make something manifest in a 373 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.759 way. And and I'm not talking like summoning a demon or something like that. 374 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:57.960 I'm just like a thought or if you want something to happen, almost 375 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.559 like a like the secret, like hanging it on your refrigerator or something. 376 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:08.559 In a way, it's sympathetic magic. It's it's a way to for you 377 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:14.799 to put your thoughts and once onto an object and hope that that object then 378 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:21.119 transfers to whatever real thing you want it to represent. And that's why you 379 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.480 would get, you know, a piece of hair or fingernail or something to 380 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:30.319 put in that object to make it be sympathized with the real thing. So 381 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.519 if it's a person, you know, you put that stuff in there, 382 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.079 and then it and and then if you try to hurt it, it's supposed 383 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.559 to hurt the person. Blah blah blah. That's a sympathetic magic, which 384 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.119 I just I don't put any stock. What about something like that. Are 385 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.519 you familiar with Otsy the ice Man? Yeah? Does that sound familiar for 386 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.440 well, for listeners that don't know and justin OTSI was just I mean, 387 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:02.519 he's a ten thousand year old human that was walking to French Alps or the 388 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:04.480 Italian Alps or I don't know, the Alps somewhere and he was in the 389 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.519 Alps and all the ice is melting. So he was found fifteen twenty years 390 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.079 ago. They chiseled him out. And every person that's come in contact with 391 00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:18.759 this mummy, this freeze dried guy has died or had something really bad happened 392 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.960 to them. And there's several deaths, I mean, like a dozen I 393 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:25.000 think associated with him. The guy that found him, the guy that dug 394 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:29.160 him out, the guy that drove the truck, the guy at the museum. 395 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:30.640 I'm making these up. I don't know what it actually is. I 396 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.279 can't I'm not that good. But there was a lot of people associated with 397 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.279 it. So I'm curious, like, what do you think of that where 398 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.400 there's there is like a track record if you believe what's being told at least 399 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:47.200 well in the same vein. That sounds a lot like the tut and Common. 400 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.279 Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like the Mummy, Yeah, 401 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:55.359 Diamond, James Dean's little bastard. But there's a bunch of them. 402 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:57.920 But the thing I was going to follow up with this after I said my 403 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.000 piece, which actually he's into Derek's thing is it's is do you feel like 404 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.720 this is something if you're investing in the mythology of it, it makes it 405 00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:12.839 stronger. Then it makes you kind of put the pieces together for it to 406 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.880 make it real. If if you get what I'm saying, you guys get 407 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.640 what I'm saying with this is that you're making it real by putting emphasis on 408 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.160 it. Yes, Yeah, Tulpa essentially is yeah, the philosophy you're talking 409 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:32.839 about or or for you know, psychology, it's kind of a placebo. 410 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.480 It would be. It would be kind of a real time confirmation bias type 411 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.279 of thing. Yeah, goodenough for you. Yeah, Like I said, 412 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:45.279 that's kind of some elements I got from this, because I would have loved 413 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:48.240 to have seen them bring somebody in they had nothing to do with this, 414 00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.640 no clue what was going on, and see how they reacted to it, 415 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.039 like giving them nothing to go off of, because, like I said, 416 00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.359 I'm somebody that doesn't super believe in stuff like this. So if you handed 417 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.279 me this dog, be like, yeah, that's a weird sorry this FGMYA, 418 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:06.559 that's weird. But I wouldn't have like because the guy when he was 419 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:10.720 like pulling the nails out at the end, was like physically being affected by 420 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.519 it to where he was like getting exhausted from it and getting like I think 421 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.839 he was crying at one point. But I'm like, I wonder what happened 422 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.519 if you just grab some random person off the street and told him to do 423 00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:27.759 it, if it affected them who has no clue, I'd put a huge 424 00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:31.640 emphasis on. Okay, I'm starting to believe this now because that person has 425 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:37.240 no parameter for it. Yeah. So but if you're somebody who believes in 426 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.279 it and feeds into it, maybe energy you give it gives that energy back. 427 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:47.359 Just something I kind of thought of while watching this. To go back 428 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.079 real quick to Derek's question about otsy and stuff, the Curse of the Mummy 429 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:59.079 from Howard Carter opening the tomb for twot in Common in twenty two. There 430 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:06.759 was a legend about nineteen twenty two. We buy that now, Yeah, 431 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.960 there was a legend that grew out of that about a bunch of people involved 432 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:19.599 or secondarily or tertiarily involved with this opening of this tomb that met an untimely 433 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:24.799 end after that happened, and well, I did an episode on it back 434 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.359 in the day, and it turns out that everybody. It sounds crazy when 435 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.720 you're like, yeah, five people died after the tomb was open, but 436 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.519 it was like five people over over like a decade or more, and they 437 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.000 were all like there was like, oh, somebody died in their sleep, 438 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.599 Oh, somebody contracted malaria, some you know, oh a bird you know 439 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:50.880 got sick and died or something. It was like, there's nothing actually to 440 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:55.079 this that isn't straight up coincidence. Yeah, but when you say five people 441 00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:00.920 died after this tomb was opened, I mean we could now say like billions 442 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.359 of people have died, you know, or whatever. I don't feel it's 443 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:08.079 sort of the Bermuda triangle effect, where you know, it sounds crazy when 444 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.480 you list all the things, but if you list the things just outside the 445 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.000 triangle's the exact same. I mean, it's it's just how the ocean is. 446 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:22.199 So yeah, that's that's the parallel I'm drawing. Huh. I said, 447 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:24.480 just just just something I pulled from this on the whole, Like like 448 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.679 if you brought me in, didn't set me up for any of this stuff, 449 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:30.559 didn't prime me for it, sat me in a room with it, 450 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:36.320 if I get the same responses from it, see, that's you're you're thinking 451 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.639 correctly, justin because that's a double blind test. That's scientific method. That's 452 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.320 what needs to happen with with that kind of stuff. Yeah, but that 453 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.239 I said that, that's just the thing I said. I find it interesting 454 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.559 seeing all these but I said I would just I'd love to see somebody who's 455 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.239 not primed for it. Like we can do this with a lot of other 456 00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:01.079 examples like the Martha lights or different and things that are supposed to just occur, 457 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.599 to see if someone who's not primed for or just just going into a 458 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.559 haunted house, Like if you don't prime somebody for it and they start responding 459 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.079 like someone prime for it, that gives me the intention of I'm believing this, 460 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.320 But I said, it's nothing against the New Kirks, because everybody in 461 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:23.199 this was primed to think of this thing as some cursed object, and the 462 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:30.079 whole like water smell, the whole like water appearing places. That is weird. 463 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.400 Yeah, but I said, it's kind of one of those things to 464 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:39.559 where I would want to experience that myself. Like if I got handed this 465 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:45.079 thing and then all of a sudden I got water footprints around my house, 466 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.239 I'd be like, Huh, that's new. That's how you do, that's 467 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:57.960 how you drink. Huh, that's new. Normally they're flaming footsteps. Well, 468 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.239 you know, it's a piggyback on what you're saying a little bit here, 469 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.679 justin every person's different, And as David touched on earlier, some people 470 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.480 claim to have sensitivities. And I'm not going to sit here and say I 471 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:13.480 believe, but I've seen some stuff that really makes me question, and I've 472 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.840 heard some things that really make me question. If I was there in the 473 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.440 room and saw this unfold, I'd probably believe. But because it came secondhand 474 00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.519 or came off the Internet or whatever, there's that separation that gives me a 475 00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:30.559 hard time. The point being that you could show this thing to one hundred 476 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:35.519 people and fifty of them could be affected by the other fifty just they're not 477 00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:39.840 open to that sort of thing, So you could David's right, double blinded. 478 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.480 It means the perfect test to take. But if you start getting complicated 479 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:50.679 and digging into the fine details of the human psyche, do some people have 480 00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.039 the abilities? And those are the people that connect to these things. So 481 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.079 I guess you then have to ask have you ever had like a psychic experience? 482 00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:00.199 Have you ever guessed the lottery numbers or anything weird like that? I 483 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.760 could see it getting complicated pretty quick. I wouldn't even go that far. 484 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.199 I just have somebody just come in and just experience like because then if you're 485 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.920 like I said, I mean, I don't want to go back to the 486 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:14.480 example of me with with the spirit box. But I said, sitting there 487 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:19.880 overhearing like the jumbled stuff and having hearing people y'all, oh man, it 488 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.400 just said this, and I'm sitting there like it just sounds like you're flying 489 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:28.320 through radio stations. Like. Like I said, it wasn't something I was 490 00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:32.679 willing to put belief in, so maybe I wasn't going to get belief out 491 00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:37.519 of it. Now speaking of like cursed objects and stuff, I will point 492 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.519 out this, and I will one hundred percent not deny this. I will 493 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.920 point I'm pointing this out free of everything I said. I'm skeptical on some 494 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.159 stuff. But there was a timeframe when we had our old me me and 495 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.800 my wife had our old car, and it was having issues one of the 496 00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:59.960 computers in the house, like there was like a ton of mechanical issues going 497 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.239 going on it like one time in the house and for some reason not trying 498 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.480 to plug plug. But I was listening to the end of the fray and 499 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:15.039 they were talking about gremlins and someone said like their their mother said like or 500 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.880 it was something talking about gremlins and like putting out a bowl of milk out 501 00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:22.400 I've heard that. And I sat there and I was like, you know, 502 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:24.119 what, what's the harm in doing this? Like, what is the 503 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:29.719 harm in me taking a bit of milk, putting it outside on the porch 504 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.679 bybe where all this stuff is happening and seeing if it goes away, you're 505 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:36.880 going to attract the dunes, is what's going to happen. That's what I 506 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.719 was gonna say, you just had the raccoons. I have a raccoon problem 507 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.519 right now, so you don't want it. They're here all. Oh no, 508 00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:46.360 this this this was years ago. And like I said, I did 509 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:53.039 it. Did it? Raccoons did exactly before they were a threat, back 510 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:59.320 before the raccoon invasion of six. But but no, it's it's just something 511 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.000 to where it's like, did I believe that that's what was causing all this 512 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:06.800 stuff? No? But I was like, what's the harm in trying this? 513 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:13.159 Sure? Like if I'm wrong, eh, if I'm right, maybe 514 00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.400 I get rid of these weird things that are bothering me. Like I said, 515 00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:21.159 didn't work out. No, that that that van abandoned dustin Pennsylvania like 516 00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.880 a few months later. So but it worked fine up until that point. 517 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.760 So maybe it was just I had to keep it in the right state. 518 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.360 But like I said, this this whole thing is interesting, and I think 519 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.480 and I said, the biggest thing I took away from this is belief in 520 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.599 the object, belief in its causing this or it's doing this. And I 521 00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:44.599 said, that's the thing is I feel like everyone in this was prime for 522 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.519 which is great. But I said, as someone skeptical. I'm very like, 523 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:53.079 eh when I've had the same response with this. So so another thing 524 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:57.199 I wanted to ask you guys was, you know, we talk about directors 525 00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.679 and that kind of thing, and this one was director directed by Kyle Jeez 526 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:07.079 and this one was directed by Carl Pfeiffer, who did the Heller serieses because 527 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:08.480 there were two of them. What did you guys think of that? You 528 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:12.320 know, the aesthetics of the film, like the way it was composed, 529 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.800 you know all that, the the technical details of filmmaking. I thought it 530 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:21.519 was well done. Yeah, I mean he took the green filter off from 531 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:28.320 Hellier, so I said, I thought it was shot very well. It 532 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:32.679 was something to where like I said, Derek said that going to the Catskills 533 00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:38.079 looks beautiful and everything. So it definitely emphasized like the atmosphere of a lot 534 00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:43.639 of areas they were in. So it does set set an atmosphere, I 535 00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.159 would I'll say that for sure, Like it definitely has a vibe to it. 536 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:52.119 Or you're you're going on this ride with them, and it's not hard 537 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:54.480 to put yourself in their shoes when you're experiencing all this stuff. They did 538 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.079 a really good job of conveying all that. There's a lot of slow motion. 539 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:07.639 But what I what I loved about there were there were quite a few 540 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:15.239 moments that were kind of hair standing up on your neck inducing. Yeah. 541 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:17.639 I had to look behind me a couple of times just to be like, 542 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.320 I'm not sure nobody's here with me. Like they they did a great job 543 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:29.320 of telling stories about how this thing was affecting people, and how it was 544 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:34.760 affecting them in their houses and what was going on, and it got so 545 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:39.199 creepy in a couple of parts. I really appreciated that. This doesn't have 546 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:43.559 anything to do with the directing. But something they did in the film that 547 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.880 I did appreciate was they were trying to replicate the carving. I touched on 548 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.079 this a little bit earlier, but they they did a three D scan and 549 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.239 tried to three D print it, and then eventually they end up just doing 550 00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:00.719 a silicon silicon mold of the effigy itself. I love that, you know, 551 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:06.800 I love that preservation. Whether it's cursed or not, this is part 552 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.400 of paranormal history now. So I love the fact that even though it's gone 553 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.800 and I don't want to give away where it went, but it's gone, 554 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.199 it still exists in a way, you know, they still have for the 555 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.199 most part, it's still here so people can lay eyes on it. That 556 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.480 kind of thing, because a lot of times we lose these pieces and once 557 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.599 they're gone, they're gone. And you hear old timers talk about all this 558 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.239 big Foot cast print that I had was the perfect print, could have proved 559 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.679 big Foot existed. But it's broken and gone now. So with with this 560 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.079 preservation method, that stuff can can continue on. So I do appreciate that. 561 00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:44.840 I'm not going to talk about how they did that because I think the 562 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:49.119 three D printing also had its own little interesting twist with it too. Yeah 563 00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.480 that that that was a moment that made an eyebrow on my head to shoot 564 00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:58.320 up real quick. So I was like, that's weird. Yeah, that 565 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.079 was a fun part. So yeah, well, like I said, it's 566 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.880 definitely interesting. Oh I was about to do my final thoughts, I was 567 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.480 like, nope, saving it, Well, we can do that. I 568 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:09.639 mean I think we could probably you guys, cool, if you're wrapping it 569 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:15.440 up, do you want to segue into that? Justin sure? After watching 570 00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:20.920 I feel like, hell, youer more pulled me in quicker on the premise 571 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:24.480 of what it was. This had I think a lot more interesting stuff with 572 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:30.480 developments they came across as the as it progressed, Like like I said, 573 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:35.559 you tell me there's a haunted object, and you don't have me pulled in 574 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:43.159 yet you build on that with certain aspects later and I get interested. Much 575 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:47.079 like David, I am someone who is a connoisseur of ancient mythology and stuff 576 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.960 like that. So it definitely rang a bell with me at when they got 577 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:53.199 to that point with it. Like I said, it pulled me in then 578 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.079 kept me in. Hell, you're what I said. It had me from 579 00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:00.320 the get go of wait, weird gobbling things out in the world. It's 580 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:05.239 oh man. So, like I said, it's definitely something that I would 581 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.639 recommend if you're well, hey, if you're listening to any of the three 582 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:15.679 podcasts that we mainly host are the other twenty that David host, definitely check 583 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.360 it out. I mean, it's it's definitely worth I mean a rent, 584 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.280 and I mean if you enjoyed Hellier this, this definitely has a lot of 585 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:27.599 that same weirdness in it. I cut the Hellier theme in there a few 586 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:32.280 times. Oh this song, someone I had a good ear. I do 587 00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:36.360 enjoy the hell your theme. That is something I did enjoy a lot. 588 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.119 I guess, I'll guess, I'll jump in here. It's very digestible. 589 00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:43.840 It's an hour and thirty six minutes or something like that, so it's not 590 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.840 like Hellier where it's going to take up a day's worth of your time to 591 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:52.320 get through all this. This is very quick and clean, and there's resolution, 592 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:58.039 or somewhat of a resolution. I highly recommend it. Keep your skeptical 593 00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.519 glasses on, of course, but it's an entertaining ride, so I had 594 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:05.880 a good time watching it. Yeah, I agree with you guys. It's 595 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:13.079 I appreciate that they did this in a film as opposed to like six episodes 596 00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:17.480 or something. I think it's cleaner that way. They get to the point 597 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:21.679 you go on the journey with them. There's a resolution, there's a little 598 00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:27.960 bit of an epilogue. I think it's again shot really well. I never 599 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:35.199 was bothered by any of the cinematography, any of the editing. Everything worked 600 00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:39.159 well for it. So I think kudos to Greg and Dana for putting this 601 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:44.400 together. It was a very smooth, very smooth film. Well, gentlemen, 602 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:47.239 thank you both for assembling here this evening to go over this film. 603 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:51.800 A lot of people right in saying we had to do this, so I 604 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.920 kind of dust it off the old round table mic and it's the same mic 605 00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.480 I use every week, but I dusted it off anyway, and here we 606 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.400 are. So thank you guys for stopping by, and thank everyone for listening, 607 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.079 and of course go check out this film. I don't know where you 608 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:07.599 guys found that. I found it on Apple, the Apple app. I 609 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.679 don't know what they think it's on Prime, So I found it on Prime. 610 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:14.519 Okay, well there you go. I think it was like four bucks 611 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:17.840 to rent or something, and it was definitely worth worth the money. Justin 612 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.519 you start for real this time. Tell everybody where they can find you and 613 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:28.440 anything you got going on. You can of course find Zignas podcasts or ever 614 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.760 you find Grace podcast. That's ce ng this. We do pop culture stuff 615 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.920 every week and sometimes the pair of Normal slips in there into that pop culture 616 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:42.679 because well it's part of that everything. So definitely check out the Zingnis podcast. 617 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:47.440 You can check out a Blurry photos wherever you get podcasts. I'll be 618 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:52.960 coming back with some episodes. I'm just finishing the writing of one right now, 619 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:59.119 got a couple in the bag, so I'll be not long absent much 620 00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:06.199 more that that all made sense grammatically. You can also check out Hysteria fifty 621 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:10.719 one if you'd like a little comedy with your paranormal Quiz Quiz Bang Bang Trivia 622 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:19.800 and Five Minute Frights is a narrative story podcast. That's where all the animatronics 623 00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:23.039 come to life and take you out right. It's it's the it's exactly that. 624 00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:27.639 There's a several games. They just made a movie of it. There 625 00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:30.400 was a better movie that was made a couple of years ago with a different 626 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:36.519 name, but that might be our next movie. We do five nights of 627 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.480 Ready. Well. You can find Monsters among us every Thursday. Wherever you 628 00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:44.480 get fined podcasts and you get bad podcasts, we're all in the same place. 629 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:47.960 I got nothing else going on. David Denies film. We don't have 630 00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.480 a date yet, but we're working our asses off trying to find the date. 631 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.719 We think it's gonna be March, So stay tuned and we'll try to 632 00:47:55.719 --> 00:48:00.960 get that date. Now that we've said that, it'll be'll yeah, because 633 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:02.719 they tell here's what happens. They tell us a date, we tell you 634 00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.760 guys, and then next time we talk to him like, oh, we 635 00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:07.880 didn't say that it's this date, and then they just keep pushing it forward, 636 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.519 so eventually it will come out, and you know, there's there's a 637 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.480 lot of processing and stuff, so there's actually a lot of work going on 638 00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:20.760 behind the scenes, so they're not just twiddling their thumbs anyhow, enough of 639 00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.119 that. If you want to see my little creature, my little carving that 640 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:28.360 I have, be sure to check out the show notes. Be sure to 641 00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:32.119 check out the unbinding from Greg and Dana Newkirk and thanks again, guys, 642 00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:36.599 had a good time. Also, stay tuned for my new I will not 643 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:39.360 stay tuned to this, but check out my new show Five Minutes with Flora. 644 00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:45.440 It's like five Nights at Friday's, but more terrifying always and he's also 645 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:52.280 an animatronic, right, I can. I every but