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Welcome to another episode of Art Discourse
today and privileged to have a very special

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guest, none other than doctor your
Own Brook. Welcome your Own. Yeah,

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it's going to be here. If
you don't know your Own, it's

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the chairman of the board of directors
of the other institute. But more importantly

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for this show, your Own,
I think is one of the biggest proponents

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of art, of proper art in
our worlds. I don't I can't think

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of many other public intellectuals that speak
so much in his show public lectures and

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panels about art and also giving us
practical advice on how we can apply ore

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to our own life, advice that
I also took from him where I got

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and printed my favorite paintings to hang
in my house. So I hope we

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all can learn from you today.
So let's just jump right into it because

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we don't have much time. So
first of all, you're on I know

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it's a difficult question, but what
is art? But but but please describe

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it in your words. We don't
need too many difficult definitions. What is

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art? I mean, definition is
important, so it's it's important to have

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a definition. But but artists basically, it's a it's an individual expressing his

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most his deepest beliefs about the world, his deepest understanding of the world,

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a deep understanding I belief that he
might not even know he has, but

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he might not even know he has, in a medium, in some kind

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of medium. And the medium can
be obviously, could be in color,

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painting, in three dimensional three dimensionality, sculpture in a whole, in a

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story, literature, in visual the
moves, and music, cinema. I

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mean, there's a lot of and
and they might be new art forms we

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don't even know about yet. Basically
to stimulate in the viewer and an emotional

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response to those fundamental, deeply grounded
belief that the artist has. So art

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is something that stimulates a response.
It stimulates an emotional response, not in

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everybody, but it in most people. Good art certainly does that in most

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people. And it is it is
that emotional response is ultimately driven by those

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very fundamental ideas uh and views that
the artist has manifest in his creation.

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So it most profoundly saying art is
about about ideas. It's about ideas and

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also also values. Right, there's
well, it's dangerous to say ideas because

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ideas takes it to it to a
particular level because you know, I rantoxic

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in the definition of art, which
is a selective recreation of reality based on

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an artist metaphysical value judgment. Metaphysical
value judgments are particular type of ideas that

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particular types of values. And you
know, for example that in modern day

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today, for you know, artist
viewed is almost exclusively political. Everything is

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political. Every piece of art has
some political meaning and political statement. But

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that's exactly and that's exactly the opposite
of It's exactly not the case. Real

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art might have a political statement,
but that's not it's crux, nuts done,

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it's essence, and that's not the
value it represents. What the value

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represents is these very very basic ideas
that we have about the world, the

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metaphysical value judge, which is a
hard concept to grasp, but these are

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these are statements about the very nature
of man, the very nature of reality,

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and our view of that. Right, So it's a value. So

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this is something that I, you
know, the artist wants. If you

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have a malevolent view of the universe, if you think life sucks and the

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universe is going to collapse and all
life on Earth will end in ten years

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because of whatever AI or or a
meteoroid, or climate change or whatever your

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choice of catastrophe is. If that's
what you're obsessed about, then that will

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reflect in your art. Even if
you do something that's pro capitalist and pro

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technology and everything, it'll come through
in the art. If it's good art.

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The ultimate theme will be something that
that reinforces that metaphysical view that you

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have about nature and the world and
life and whatever. You Whatever you're attempting

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to do politically, let's say,
defin capitalism, it won't. You won't

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be able to pull it up because
capitalism contradicts the very basic, this vade

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basic basic assumption. So art recreates
something in reality. It has to because

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it's the only way in which people
can understand it, and it art needs

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to be understood. It can be
just in the mind. I'm sure that

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when Kandinsky is putting blotches of pain
or dots of pain or whatever it is

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on a canvas, it means something
to him. I'm sure it means something,

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right. It probably just an emotional
outbust more than anything else. But

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it's not understandable to anybody else.
He's not communicating, and art is definitely

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a form of communication, and in
that it is communicating, it has to

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be identifiable, and in order to
be identifiable, it has to be recreating

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something that is identified as a human
experience. Now we'll get to music.

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Music is it's hard to We don't
really understand completely what it is the music

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is we're creating, although Iran had
some theories about that which I think,

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which I think makes sense. But
but every other art form it just has

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to be within our experience. And
blocks is of color. Yeah, I've

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seen blocks of color, but it
doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have any

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significance, and it certainly it's not
a reflective of any kind of metaphysical value

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judgment. It's not a reflective of
any kind of fundamental, basic idea conclusion

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that you have come to about reality. But if we have something more simple,

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like still life painting, for example, painting over flowers, what does

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that mean? Well, I mean
it depends on the the what is what

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is actually being painted? Right?
So you can you can put a vase

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of flowers in a very dark set, the flowers can be half dead on

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the way to dye. That would
say something. You could make the painting

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blotchy and blurry, and hot to
exactly figure out, you know, really

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an effort it takes to even see
that there's flowers. They Well, you

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could make it sharp and crisp and
alive and full of light. That would

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be something else. And I'm not
saying one is better art than the other.

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All of them aught, but they
all reflect different metaphysical value judgments about

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it. You could also just do
flowers. Most still lives that I see

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painted. You know they mean something, but it's just they're boring. How

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do you That's another thing about aut
It has to it has to interest you.

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It has to want you to look
at it. It has to want

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you to stay looking at it.
So it has to be interesting, So

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there has to be something of interest
in it. So to make flowers interesting

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and to convey something is a challenge, but I think it's it's doable.

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Again, the way you portray the
flowers and the context in which the light

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draw the drama lack of drama or
whatever that light is a dramatic means is

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going to determine what ideas of being
reflected by the particular painting. I think

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one interesting thing about painting, specifically
because I write about painting, is some

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works are so universal, like the
one behind me, for example, everybody

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has a specific feeling that he feels
when he sees that, and I can

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show you maybe later. There's a
very interesting picture of this painting in the

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museum where it's it's hanging and there's
a group of students and you can see

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how they are looking at that painting. Everyone he has his own face that

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he's pulling, is pointing to these
things, to that thing. So this

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is also about communication and it touches
us right when when we see something like

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that, it really touches us.
How do we explain that? Well?

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I think I think the painting that
is universal is going to be a painting

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of a subject that people can relate
to it. There has to be something

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there that is reflective of some of
the experiences that are more universal than other

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experiences. If he was an astronaut, it would be, you know,

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and he was looking at some thing
in space, and you could create something

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I'm sure just as impactful, but
it would be it would be hard for

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people to relate to because it wasn't
something they've experienced. Nature is something we're

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all experienced. Man alone in front
of nature is something most of us have

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experience, we know what that feels
like. So it I think it gives

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it a certain universality. And then
of course it's a genius of the artist

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to make it something interesting, right, because that also gives is it If

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it's boring, if it's uninteresting,
people are just gonna walk by it.

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They're not going to stop and look. So in this painting, the contrast

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between dark and light, it gives
a drama that gives you, gives it

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a silhouette almost is something that makes
you stop and look. They all kinds

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of, if you will, tricks
of the trade, you know, ways

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in which great artists know how to
There's at least one pyramid there. There's

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actually, you know, triangles are
very powerful. Uh, you know,

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geometry is in painting. There's there's
at least two that you know, and

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I haven't studied this painting, so
this is the first time I'm looking at

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it. There's the two right there, one obviously very you know, with

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the figure in it so very dark, and in the front, and in

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the mountain in the background, which
is reflective of the same shape. Again,

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it's interesting, right, there's perspective, there's something close, there's something

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far so all of that other kind
would add the figure, the figure himself,

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we don't see his face is so
we can imagine ourselves there as well.

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Yes, yes, I mean I
was just even without even talking about

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that a theme or about you know, just just in terms of the the

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way of painting a structure is going
to determine whether you stop and gaze at

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it and whether you don't. And
so a lot of it's universe, but

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a lot of it will says cultural. So for example, if you take

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a if you take a Leonardo da
Vincio, or you take a car a

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vidual painting of a saint or some
religious scene, and you stick it somewhere.

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You don't put the sign call a
vidual Leonardo da Vinci. You just

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put it up on a wall.
Someone today, Yeah, some people will

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stop and look at it. I
will immediately say that's either a Leonardo or

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influenced by him. I'm not sure
I identify the actual thing, but influenced

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by a lot of people will stop
and look at but a lot of people

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just walk by it. If you'd
put it up in the Renaissance, everybody

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would have stopped and looked at because
it was speaking into a theme and in

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a medium and with symbolism that related
to the culture, and which has made

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what makes it universal and timeless is
the fact that if you learn a little

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bit about the context, you're blown
away by it, right, you'll stop

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and watch it. But most people
don't. Some of most people will walk

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by it without thinking twice about it, whereas in the Renaissance they would have

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all stopped and they're all dimned and
recognized it. And this is the thing

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recognized it as a masterpiece because they
were already attuned to, you know,

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religious paintings, and this is different. And what makes it different. So

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the universality of it is some of
it's educational. Sometimes there are paintings out

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there that are great paintings that should
be universal, and people don't respond to

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them because they don't have the information
they need to know to respond to them.

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They did in the past, because
maybe it's a stoical context or something

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like that. Particularly with painting,
which is more. Painting is more.

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There's more of a story in painting
than the business sculpture, at least some

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painting sculpture. There's no story in
sculpture. Very there are a few sculptures

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of stories but most sculptures, you
know, the stories irrelevant with painting.

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Often you need to know what's going
on now, not here in the In

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the painting, you are behind you. You don't need to know anything about

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the story. A lot of portraits
you don't need to know anything about the

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story. But when they're multiple figures
and they're clearly interacting with one another,

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often the story it has some significance
and it adds to your appreciation of an

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artwork. So what do we have
we have? It needs to Art needs

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to communicate, It needs to be
within reality. It also relates to our

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culture. That affects how we react
to it. It's and it's all because

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of communication, right. You can't
communicate if it's not in reality. You

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can't communicate if you're not using tools
that are culturally understood. So it really

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is communicate. Captures a lot of
that, and it needs to communicate.

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But of course there's a lot of
stuff out there that there's a lot of

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art out there that communicates, but
it's shallow and and and and doesn't have

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any kind of deep meaning. It's
it's or it's communication is so in your

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face that there's no you look at
it. Maybe it inspires you for five

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minutes, and then every time you
look at it afterwards you're board. So

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I call that most of that is
often illustration or just not very good art,

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and it's it's just it's it's gimmicky, it's and and it doesn't it

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doesn't capture you, and it doesn't
keep your interest over the long run.

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One of the things that iron Run
talks about in their writings in The Romantic

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Manifesto is the connection between art and
epistemology and human cognition. She talks about

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that we think in visual terms.
When we get something that is concrete and

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visual to us, it can reduce
a wide array of abstractions. For example,

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if we have we can imagine in
our mind five elephants, but if

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we were to imagine one hundred elephants, it will be impossible. But when

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we see it in a painting,
we can understand how that looks like.

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So it's impossible to imagine a hundred
elephants. I think you can imagine everything.

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You can imagine a hundred elephants.
Sure, through a visual you create

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a visual in your mind. Of
through the visual you needed, there's a

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sension which is not a hundred.
It's it's many, right, it's there's

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not a hundred, it's many,
but it's I mean, what I mean

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is saying, is most of our
most important none most all of our most

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important ideas of really abstract. It's
not about a hundred elephants. It's about

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love, or it's about liberty,
or it's about even more importantly, it's

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about you know, the life is
worth living, and the universe is norble,

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and and a is a and you
know things that are very very fundamental

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and yet very very abstract. And
and what what it's very odd to hold

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that right. You hold it in
your mind as concepts. You hold it

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in your mind as propositions, and
that is that is a lot of work.

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Your mind is doing a lot of
work and holding that and then in

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then you have the whole proof or
the whole justification of that proposition, justification

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of that axiom, or justification of
that value. All of that is is

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conceptual. It's it's it's And what
odd does is it takes all that and

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it replaces it with a picture.
So you know the concept of hero,

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well, you replace that with a
story. You replace that which is whi

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which which you can you know you
read about and and you can hold in

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your mind as I don't know Ivanhoe. You know, I've got Ivanhoe in

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my mind. I know hero,
Yeah, I or or in the same

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with Uh, I don't know the
the clarity the clarity of of of of

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the universe. The universe is is
knowable, it's clear, it's identifiable.

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Yeah, you can hold my mind. Uh. You know painting by Vermeo

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where where everything is is clear and
knowable and and uh and uh and and

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reflecting back to you. So what
what odd does is it? It is

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it creates a condensation, a concrete
for a a massive abstraction, right,

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the role of the mind in human
life. That's a massive abstraction. But

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once you read out shrugged, then
it's act let's talk. Okay, I

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get it. It's it's it's it's
it's all those characters and out shrug and

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what they did. I get the
role of the mind in in in human

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life. Uh. And if I
don't mind myself particular way in which it

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manifests yourself, I can run through
a particular character. Uh. And and

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you know, if I need an
image of a determined hero facing amazing odds,

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I can think of a sculpture of
David or something like that. So

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there's it's a it's a quick condensation
that allows us to hold these abstractions and

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live with these abstractions without being overwhelmed
by them. So it makes it,

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makes it real, makes it real, It makes it real, but it

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it it. It reinforces there.
It reinforces what they mean to you,

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whether the true or not. Art
is not what's important. They reinforce what

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they mean to you. They reinforce
your view of them, and so it

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reinforces that, and it it confirms
it for you, not in the sense

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of proving them because it doesn't prove
them right in that sense. It doesn't

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make it real, but it confirms
it for you because it condenses kind of

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whatever proof or whatever conviction you have
around it in something concrete that you can

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actually see. Okay, so let's
move to another chapter in the Romantic Manifesto,

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which deals with a sense of life. Sense of life is for me,

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it's been I'm still trying. I
think I'm still trying to figure it

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out. And it plays a big
role in art. So to my understanding

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could be wrong. Applied to art. What an artist does with his sense

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of life. He has specific things
that he cares about more. He has

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specific values, He has a specific
style, specific ways in which he specific

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approach to life. You know,
he likes to have beautiful things around him,

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or he likes to have ugly things
around him. All of that manifests

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into a canvas or piece of marble, and that is artists the manifestation of

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that of his It's essentially an art
is the artist himself. He's showing us

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the most candid personal image of his
own conscious I mean, it's it's it's

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something like that, but it's look
at sense of life is a is the

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almost emotional, but it's it's it's
a it's a particular state of consciousness that

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you have. That that is underlize
everything that you do and underlize your style,

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the way you deal with the world, and the way uh you you

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interact with the world out there,
and the way in a sense, you

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interact with yourself. It's the kind
of the conclusion of given the values that

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you've chosen, given the metaphysical values
that you have, it's the kind of

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personality and character that is the result
of that. And it's an manifestation of

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that. So it's not something that
you consciously work on. It's something that

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is the consequence of all the things
that you might have consciously worked on or

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not consciously worked on. And therefore
it's it's it's a consequence of somewhat accident,

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and to some that it is going
to be a consequence of accident,

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because a lot of it is a
sense of life. A lot of it

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is a consequence of things that we
experience and conclusions we come to when we're

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young, and we can change it, but it's not it's not easy.

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And then what artist does is an
artist in that he is put in that

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he is painting based on his metaphysical
value judgments. That is that what is

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reflected in the art those metaphysical values
that are molding and shaping a sense of

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life. So has the art reflects
his sense of life. The art is

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an expression of the metaphysical value judgment
which operationalize in a sense in in in

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the sense of life, and every
artwork has a particular sense of life.

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You and the way you respond to
an artwork of a based on your sense

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of life, again, based on
the conclusions you have come to about the

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world and about the metaphysical value judgments. And yeah, that so it's the

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interaction between your sense of life and
the artist sense of life, which which

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you get. What you get is
the emotional response that you get. Is

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it always the case that a walk
of art represents the artist's sense of life

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or it could be that it doesn't
represent it. I think to some extent

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or another, it always represents this
in some question because I'm thinking like paintings

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of someone like Adolf Fitler. I
know he had very ugly but you know,

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realistic, boring, banal paintings doesn't
look like a painting by Adolf Fitler.

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A guy was you know it was
a monster? Yeah, but are

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they not particularly good paintings? I
mean that's the point. You know,

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anybody can anybody can, anybody with
a little bit of skill can paint something

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on a canvas. And but to
be meaningful, tot to, to to

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really be substantive as a painting,
it has to reflect a sense of life.

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So not everything that everybody paints is
a flection of sense of life.

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Over if I if I scribble something
in a piece of paper, it's not

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a reflection of my sense of life. Partially to a reflection of fact,

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I can't paint right, so you
know, and I do think you can

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say that, well, I don't
think you can read anything into bad aught.

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I don't think you can read a
lot into bad art. Bad in

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a sense of just boring, banal
meaning it. Yeah, it's if somebody

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goes to art school and they paint
because the teacher told them to paint in

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a particular way. He can't read
anything into that of this sense of life.

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Yeah, yeah, I see that. Okay, So so now let's

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talk about the inherent selfishness of art. We consume art on our own,

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almost unless we go to movies with
someone. But when we experience a painting,

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our experience with the painting is entirely
our own. Also with the movie.

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And you were talking in one of
your panels with on Car about there's

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a sense of duty that you have
to go to a museum and see all

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the all the artworks. And I, for example, when I go to

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the museum, I skip all the
I don't like the medieval art, for

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example, so I go right into
the type of art that I want.

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But most people they have to go
through the it's exhausting. So maybe you

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can elaborate on there. Yeah,
I mean, I think, I think

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we all, you know, honest
to be experienced. It's experience as a

300
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you know, as as a personal
it's a personal experience. And there's a

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men's sell fish pleasure that one can
get from experiencing great art. And you

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00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.279
know, particularly when you're new to
art, it you know, it can

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be over it can be overwhelming because
you know, people talk about museum fatigue,

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and the primary reason for museum fatigue
is that all of this art is

305
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.759
impacting you, even if you don't
know it's impacting you, it's it's it's

306
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it's it's doing something to your subconscious
it's doing something to your emotional state.

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And when you're overloaded sense solely,
when you've got so much going on,

308
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you experienced so many things, you
get fatigued. It's it's it's exhausting.

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And you don't know why exactly,
but but it's because you're walkings is exposed

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to a lot. There's a lot
of work going on in your head to

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deal with all of this. So
so you know, I I tell people

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focus on the things that you love, Find the things that you love,

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you know, and go straight there. But right as as you mature in

314
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your art appreciation, or as you
know more about art, or as you

315
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know you know more about what you
like or don't like, it makes a

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lot of sense to try to understand
and to expand the things that you like.

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Right, So, for example,
you know there's a lot of there's

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a lot of art that you need
context in or to fully appreciate, and

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so you know, you might skip
a lot of the Renaissance that's Jesus again

320
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:42.400
and again and again and again.
But when you know more about what's going

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on, when you know more about
art history, when you know more about

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the story that's being depicted, when
you know more about the style of the

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particular painter, then suddenly a lot
more becomes interesting to you, and a

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lot more becomes and then there are
all kinds of other reasons you might be

325
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interested. So I I drive my
friends and my wife crazy because I often

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go to the medieval sections and go
look, because I you know, I

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am actually interested in the way Jesus
is depicted in the Dark Ages and the

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Middle Ages and the Renaissance in the
modern world because I find it historically interesting,

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and and in different countries you see
different expressions. So there's a different

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way in which religious paintings are done
in the Netherlands and in Italy and Spain,

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they're just not very good painters,
and you know, so it's interesting

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to actually go and see this stuff. And whenever you see, you know,

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often when you see a really good
painting from that, particularly from early

334
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:47.880
on in Spain, it's almost always
an Italian paint who came to Spain to

335
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:52.240
paint, because you know, later
they have good you know, they have

336
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Velasquez and but but but there's a
lot of so trying to understand, you

337
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know, like people, most people
will walk by now the Da Vincian go

338
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:04.119
yeah, okay, you know,
there's a joke around them. Mona Lisa.

339
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:07.920
Why does anybody go see the Mona
Lisa? It doesn't you know.

340
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But the Mona Lisa is a brilliant
painting. It is a magnificent you know,

341
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:17.599
and it's a true masterpiece. But
I'm not sure just a casual viewer

342
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:19.279
could look at it and see it's
a masterpiece. You have to have some

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background info, so over time it's
worth expand. And plus, when we're

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young, we often like paintings that
we outgrow in a sense that they might

345
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.519
not be as complex, or they
might not be as interesting, or we

346
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:41.680
might develop a finer aesthetic. So
you've got to constantly learn and expand and

347
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:47.079
try to understand. It doesn't mean
you want to expose yourself to a bad

348
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:52.400
art, but if the experts out
there, if the artistorians are saying this

349
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.440
is a great painter, it's at
least worth going to explore why they think.

350
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.680
I mean, there's some paint is
I still don't get why considered great

351
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:04.119
painters. Goya and and Uh comes
to mind, and there are a few

352
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:12.480
others. But I think it's valuable, suddenly pre twentieth century to at least

353
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experiment with going to museums and doing
different things in museums and looking at different

354
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.160
and why it's it's nice to live
in a city that has a museum and

355
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.519
you can go there many times,
so you don't you're not like, I'm

356
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.039
visiting in London, I have to
see everything in the National Gallery tomorrow,

357
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.519
so I I But when I'm in
London, I have no problem going in

358
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.440
the National Gallery and just going to
see the five paintings that I know I

359
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.440
want to see. And then sometimes
like a few years ago and I did

360
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a show on this. I actually
went and started with the Dark Ages and

361
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just did the whole museum. I
did every painting in the museum, and

362
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:56.240
it was fascinating to see the progression
of art, like you got art history

363
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.640
and you got this, you know, and I know enough about art history

364
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.079
to be able to say what's going
on in each period and what's happening.

365
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:04.720
So it was fun, It was
it was It was a blast to do

366
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that. So you can go different
times and do different things at me in

367
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different museums, and different museums are
gonna be different. Some museums I don't

368
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.240
know. The other museum in London, the Tate, Tate Britain, Tate,

369
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the Tate British, which is one
of my favorite museums. But it's

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I mean, it isn't It isn't
right because one of the problems in the

371
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Tate is that they have the good
artwork, they all cram together, one

372
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.160
on top of the other, and
it's like you can't appreciate it because there's

373
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:42.119
too much. Your eye is distracted, there's no mental focus. And they

374
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:47.240
do the golden stuff there too.
Yeah, but you can ignore that,

375
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.839
that's easy. I'm much more concerned
about the fact that the good stuff is

376
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:55.880
displayed in ways that it's hard to
fully appreciate. So you know, different

377
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.640
visits you can focus on different layers
and different you know, there's the stuff

378
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.279
way up in the ceiling and it's
hard to even see. But but yes,

379
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.039
it's one of the museums I try
to go to in London periodically,

380
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:14.839
and they also have some good visiting
exhibits or temporary exits they have. They

381
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:22.200
have an unbelievable storage facility somewhere with
some amazing paintings that they never remember.

382
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.599
I wanted to see a specific turner
and they said it was in storage.

383
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.200
I remember that. Oh yeah,
ninety five percent of everything they have is

384
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.440
in storage. Yeah, it's particularly
the good stuff because they have they have

385
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:40.400
a bias against the good stuff.
Crazy. So another thing I would suggest

386
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:47.720
myself listen to lectures some YouTube youtubes
of museums. They have some really good

387
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:53.000
lectures by their local artist storians.
For example, I listened to one from

388
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.880
the National Gallery in London about John
Constable, who's always found very boring,

389
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.880
but when he started to really explain
what he was about his childhood, it

390
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.799
became much more interesting to me.
So I also like paintings. But yeah,

391
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:09.599
I still find the painting is boring. But but yes, but no,

392
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:16.039
there's a ton of lectures. Artist
stylians are generally good. Again,

393
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.440
if they deal with pre twentieth century, they're typically good. They know what

394
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.200
they're talking about. It's always interesting. When I was in Rome, I

395
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.640
got somebody to give us a tour
of the Carravadios and the different churches in

396
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:30.960
Rome, a private tour, and
it was phenomenal because you can look at

397
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.799
a painting and you kind of get
it. And I know Cavadua pretty well.

398
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:39.599
But actually are the what are the
breakthroughs here? What's new, what's

399
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.759
challenging? Why did you do this? Way did you do that? Interwoven

400
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.519
into his whole life, which is
which was a fascinating life on top of

401
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:51.559
it gives you a whole other dimension
and appreciation for the artwork. So yeah,

402
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:58.039
definitely definitely try to take courses in
art history and lectures on particular artists.

403
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.119
It's definitely worth it. But also
no no rush. If if you

404
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:05.079
if you're still trying to figure out
something specifically that you like, I think

405
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:10.880
it's okay not to have a rush
about it. Yeah, so I want

406
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.239
to talk to you about a bit
about heroes. Why do we need heroes

407
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:23.199
and why is it so central to
art well, because I think heroism is

408
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:30.960
something that is definitely something that we
need a competization for because it's something that

409
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:36.599
is often we're in our own lives, particularly in a grand scale, and

410
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.960
it's something that is for the most
part there for an abstraction. We don't

411
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:50.599
have personal experiences necessarily with it.
It's also something that's hard. It's not

412
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:52.440
easy to be a hero. It's
hard to be a hero. So it's

413
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.039
an extent that you want to be
heroic in your own life, you want

414
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:04.320
to pursue heroism, you know,
you need to have some kind of inspiration

415
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.719
to get you through it because it's
hard. So for example, having integrity

416
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.280
and you know which I think heroism
is a sub branch of as a virtue.

417
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.920
You know, requires effort and requires
focus and requires and to have a

418
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:24.920
model for that makes it makes it
easier. It's also the case that god,

419
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:28.039
I was going to make a second
point that it's slipped my mind.

420
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:32.519
So you know, heroes are people
who overcome incredible obstacles in order to attain

421
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:37.840
a particular particular value or particular goal, and a lot of us have that.

422
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:45.880
Most people live bland on heroic lives, and most people's conception of the

423
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.760
hero is pretty bland and stupid.
It's it's on a Schwarzenegger, you know,

424
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:54.760
or you know, it's it's a
basically physical it's all about physical effort,

425
00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:00.000
and it's all of physical courage,
whereas the real courage is a courage

426
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.559
of values, a coverage of integrity, of a courage of sticking to your

427
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:14.039
your your chosen values. And so
it's it's hot, and therefore we need

428
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.079
we need an image. Another thing
about heroes is an inspirational you know,

429
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.480
heroes represent what we would like to
be, what we would like to achieve,

430
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:27.119
what we would like to attain,
and having that image is incredibly emotionally

431
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:34.679
powerful. It reaffirms us, It
shows us that it's possible. Rand has

432
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:38.400
that quote. Yeah, definitely,
it shows us what is possible, and

433
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.079
in that sense, it reflects to
us what we are capable of, even

434
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.920
if we are never going to be
in a situation with that particular form of

435
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:53.800
heroism is required. So let's talk
about beauty. I know it's a it's

436
00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:00.159
a big subject, but for me, it's of paramount importance trying to It's

437
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.519
an advice I think I took from
you. I try to surround myself with

438
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.639
beauty wherever I am, also with
what I'm wearing, with my house.

439
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:14.519
For example, now I made an
historical move from andreid to iPhone. I

440
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.719
can I can now also do that
And and for me it was eating my

441
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:23.880
iPhone gig. Yeah, everybody's staying
that. So for me, I'm still

442
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:30.400
bewildered by that. It's so esthetic, it's so beautiful, and everything for

443
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:35.840
me is just it's it's improving a
lot of things for me. So just

444
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:39.679
it's a small thing, but it
shows what is it about beauty? Yeah,

445
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:44.760
I mean I think beauty is really
really important. It's really crucial.

446
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.679
It's a it's a difficult topic because
you know what they say, beauty is

447
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.920
an I have to beholder. Well
not really. I mean there's some the

448
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.280
universal principles around this, and I
think great designers understand this and know this.

449
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.840
And if you look even across cultures, there's certain things that are just

450
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:07.239
perceived as beautiful, but there is
there is some extent, there's a there's

451
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.880
a lot of optionality and beauty.
There are definitely differences in how people conceive

452
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.119
of what is beautiful, you know, and you can tell they by how

453
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:22.239
they live and what they choose to
surround themselves with. They I off,

454
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.679
would go to people's homes and they
think it's beautiful, and I just think

455
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:31.039
it's horrific. Part of it is
second handedness, part of it is trying

456
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:36.400
to be like everybody else or impressing
people. There's a lot of reasons why

457
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.239
people do what they do, but
it's also people do have different perceptions of

458
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:44.960
beauty. Exactly why where that comes
from. I don't know enough about you

459
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:49.320
know, what what the psychological elements
to construct beauty are. But there's clearly

460
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.960
something about, at least for me, about symmetry, about clean lines,

461
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:05.679
and about and about space spaciousness.
Uh, that that that I find beautiful.

462
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:10.800
I find particular kinds of furniture beautiful, particular kinds of architecture beautiful,

463
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.039
you know. So it's it's and
other stuff I can't stand, right,

464
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:22.599
It's like but uh, and and
again it's very contextual in a sense of

465
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:27.440
the culture. Right, So what
I find beautiful today, if I had

466
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.480
been born in the eighteenth century,
I probably would have a very different taste

467
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:37.000
right. So I hate eighteenth century
architecture, I hate eighteenth century furniture,

468
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:43.280
and I don't understand antiques. I
don't. I love the art and I

469
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.800
hate everything about it. Uh and
uh, you know, and I think

470
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:54.880
that there's something clean and about the
modern world that is reflect that should be

471
00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:00.559
reflected in architecture and in furniture and
things like that. But yeah, to

472
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:05.199
the extent that you have control over
it, why not make the environment in

473
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:14.440
which you live esthetically pleasing so that
you are inspired or you enjoy the space

474
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.480
in which you are living. The
space in which you're living has there's meaning,

475
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:22.800
it has, it's important, it
has a substance, and if you

476
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:29.280
can enjoy it because it's just,
it's one more element to helping you enjoy

477
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:34.119
life more broadly and helping you be
happy more broadly. So to the extent

478
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.840
that you have opinions about it,
to the extent that it's important, a

479
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:43.440
particular thing is important to you,
focus on it. I couldn't care less

480
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:47.079
what clothes I wore. Indeed,
ideally I wouldn't wear clothes at all.

481
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:52.960
It's it's you know, so it's
you know, I like to be you

482
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.280
know, it's my comfort is like, what is a magnitude more important to

483
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.119
me than how I look? So
so I go for comforts. You have

484
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.440
to figure out your particular, your
independent, particular hierarchy of values and figure

485
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:13.159
out what makes sense for you in
terms of and and And that's also part

486
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.199
of how you relate to a space. Right. If you're uncomfortable, it's

487
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:20.960
going to affect you in all kinds
of ways. So for me, wearing

488
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:24.440
a tie is like I can't be
completely myself because I feel like somebody is

489
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:28.000
trying to strangle me. It's just
a question of when they're going to hang

490
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:34.519
me from the nearest tree. But
I get that it's symmetrical, you know,

491
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.199
But it's in that sense it's nice. So it's you have to figure

492
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:44.039
out what and way, And then
of course when it comes to even your

493
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:47.840
environment, the space. You know, some people can afford small homes that

494
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.960
don't have a lot of space or
they can't. They can afford whatever furniture

495
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:53.400
they can pick up any use.
You know, I've been there, I've

496
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:58.320
done that, I've lived that life. But even then, you know,

497
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.440
the furniture that I we brought home
for whatever used store, used furniture store,

498
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:07.039
was always I mean we look.
If you look at the forty years

499
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:09.599
I've been married and the kind of
furniture we've had in every single place,

500
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:14.280
you'll see a theme. There's definitely
a theme to every software we've ever had.

501
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:16.960
There's a theme to kind of the
way we set up our wounds.

502
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:23.800
There are themes that carry through the
different periods. But that's me, right,

503
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:28.519
those are the things that are important
to me. I would only add

504
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:35.199
that I think it's a false dichotomy
between comfort and beauty, but I can

505
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:43.840
prove it to you later. So
let us talk about the supply. I

506
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:46.360
haven't spoken to you about it,
so maybe you don't have anything interesting to

507
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:52.039
say about it. But for me, yeah, that's what I thought.

508
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:55.039
So for me, it's a it's
a big deal because I like nineteenth century

509
00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:00.119
German paintings, so I go to
for example, I was in Leipzig in

510
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:06.599
Germany last week and they had a
very beautiful art museum. There a lot

511
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:10.840
of paintings about similar to this,
about the greatness of nature, you know,

512
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:16.599
things like that. What do you
think about that about German painting or

513
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:22.840
about the sublime as an idea in
painting? I mean, I think the

514
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:28.480
sublime is is a yeah, I
mean it's a it's a it's a fantastic

515
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.159
something to express in a painting.
Whether nature is the only way you can

516
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.760
do it, I'm a little skeptical. I have to think about what the

517
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:45.599
sublime means. But it doesn't strike
me as it requires beautiful nature when it

518
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.960
comes to painting paintings of nature.
I prefer the Americans to the Germans.

519
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.440
They were taught in Germany. The
American yeah, they learned their style,

520
00:43:53.519 --> 00:44:00.039
but then they show what they chose
in terms of their themes is grandeur and

521
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:06.079
and and drama. That I think
they think that, you know, beer

522
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:13.639
studd and people like that achieve these
magnificent, magnificent effects. But what is

523
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.800
the sublime. I don't know what
the sublime is exactly. I mean,

524
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:22.239
it's it's us really about God,
the notion that there's something greater than man.

525
00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:27.360
In that sense, it's a negative
idea, but it also I think,

526
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:29.840
but I don't think it has to
be greater than man. It's just

527
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.760
that there's that there's a grand year
to the world, that there's a grand

528
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:38.039
year to man and tower the world
and uh, and that you know,

529
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:45.760
we can and have the potential to
achieve that kind of grande that it's that

530
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:51.360
it's attainable. I think that's that's
what a rational view of sublime would be.

531
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.480
And I think a lot of paintings, a lot of the great paintings,

532
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:58.840
have that it. You know,
the theme has to be something that

533
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:04.519
transcends a particular story or a particular
narrative. It has to be something grander

534
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:07.119
and bigger than that. I certainly
think, although I don't know how you

535
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.280
would prove this or you would show
this, that a lot of music is

536
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:19.920
definitely reflective of this year there for
example. Sometimes yeah, but I think

537
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:23.239
a lot of music, I think
a lot of the romantic music achieves that.

538
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:31.320
You know, when when when you
know, there's a sort of sublime.

539
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:35.920
So I don't think it necessitates to
God, but it doesn't necessitate kind

540
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:42.079
of the sense of grandeur of the
world, of nature and of oneself.

541
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:50.320
So now let's move to more personal
issues. I wanted to ask you you

542
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:54.000
yourself. You you're a PhD in
finance, You talk about economics, feel

543
00:45:54.159 --> 00:46:00.719
about politics about I don't know what
does that have to do with art?

544
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:10.719
Nothing. I mean, art is
not something that so I think everybody should

545
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:17.199
be interested in on. So I
don't consider myself having any kind of special

546
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:24.280
anything with regard to art. I
just have identified that it's something everybody should

547
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:29.159
should take a serious interest in,
and I do. I think a lot

548
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:35.679
of other people don't or don't identify
it or don't I'm not known publicly to

549
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:40.440
have identified it, but I don't
think I'm unique in any regard. I

550
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:44.800
think everybody should have an interest.
Doesn't matter what you do, as long

551
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:49.039
as we all hold abstract concept as
long as we're all human. Really,

552
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.239
as long as we're all human,
art is a need. I'm then describes

553
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.360
it as a need. It's like
food. It's food for the soul,

554
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.679
it's food for your character, it's
food for your mind. So I think

555
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:07.280
everybody should be engaged in it and
should be interested in it. I talk

556
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:14.119
about art because I like it,
and because nobody else seems to not so

557
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.440
much because I feel like I'm qualified
to talk about it, because I'm probably

558
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:22.400
not, but it's or less qualified
than many others. I wish more people

559
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.360
were talking about it. There's so
much to say, and there's so much

560
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.880
to do, and there's so much
to think about it, and there's so

561
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:34.079
much to experience of it. You
know, I've taken it seriously for years.

562
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:39.159
So I've read books, I've listened
to courses. I've traveled all of

563
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:44.679
the world going to art museums,
I've taken tours. So I've just experienced

564
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:45.760
a lot of it. So i
have a lot of experience. But beyond

565
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.880
that, I'm not an artist.
I can't paint, I can't sculpt,

566
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:54.920
I can't write music I have.
I'm completely incompetent when it comes to any

567
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:01.360
art form in terms of production.
So I'm stuck with liking and and learning

568
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:06.199
as much as I can about it, and that's what I've done. I've

569
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:12.880
done that for when did I start, Probably, you know, forty two,

570
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.800
forty forty one, forty two years
ago. Let's talk about music.

571
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.480
Well, I know it's also a
big deal for you myself because I don't

572
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:24.639
know much about music. There are
some works that I really like. I

573
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:28.440
listened to a lot of music,
but I don't know. I don't know

574
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:34.440
much beyond that. So I've been
about music and also have some tips on

575
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:38.039
how to start listening to classical music. Yes, again, I don't know

576
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:42.639
anything about music. I can't read
sheet music, I don't know what a

577
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:45.519
chord is. I don't, you
know, just the basics. I do

578
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:50.239
not know, right, I know
what I like, and I know I

579
00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:55.199
know, I know, reasonable,
amma. But the history of music,

580
00:48:55.239 --> 00:49:00.800
because I read some books about the
history of music, which I found fascinating.

581
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.000
Again, I find it interesting to
connect the history of music with history.

582
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.280
I think those relationships between the history
of art and history, what's going

583
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.960
on in the world at the time, it's fascinating. So I find that

584
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:20.239
all interesting, so I read about
it. I think music is, of

585
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:24.199
all the art forms, the one
that can evoke the strongest emotions and can

586
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:30.440
evoke them and evokes them directly.
It doesn't require any kind of mental effort.

587
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:35.840
It requires some focus, particularly when
you're talking about classical music. It

588
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.440
requires some focus, but focus exclusively
on the music, not an antimpting it,

589
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:43.599
not understanding it, not what happened
before, not what happens after,

590
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:49.199
but just being in the moment and
really really experiencing it. And I think

591
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:53.679
that's what's really really necessary to have
a deep, under deep appreciation of music.

592
00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:06.519
Most popular music is not intended is
intended for instant gratification. It's it's

593
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.400
candy, it's it's sugar coated candy
and some of its sugar coated poison.

594
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:17.679
It's just there to be danced too. It's there to be listened to and

595
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.320
tap your foot, and some of
it's great, but it's there to be

596
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:28.199
experienced in the moment, and most
of it to forgotten. Is there are

597
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:32.880
some great pieces of kind of what
you call contemporary music, contemporary to what

598
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:40.760
period, but contemporary too different periods
in the twentieth century. But once everybody

599
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:45.800
figured out that everybody likes a beat
and people are willing to spend a lot

600
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:52.440
of money on being entertained by having
a beat, then forget about it.

601
00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.440
You know, all you get is
a beat. So modern modern popular music

602
00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:00.440
is just a beat. There's there's
almost nothing there. There's no complexity,

603
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:05.920
there's no sublime, there's no nothing
interesting. You hear a song once,

604
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:09.400
it could be like ten other songs. They all follow the same formula.

605
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:14.920
That gets that in some gratification.
It's like the fact that if you stick

606
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.840
sugar in every piece of food,
I mean a lot of food, people

607
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:23.639
will gravitate towards sugar because sugar is
just too it's it's it's addictive in a

608
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.679
sense, it's not really addictive,
but it's addictive in a sense. Addiction.

609
00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:32.159
The use of the term addiction,
of the of addiction is blown up.

610
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:38.920
I mean, but yeah, it's
it's too gratifying to let go of

611
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:49.320
and you lose the real, the
real depth and emotion that music has.

612
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.880
And again, a beat and a
popular music can get you to feel good

613
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.639
in the moment, but it doesn't
have any lasting effect. It doesn't affect

614
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:02.559
your psychopismology, doesn't affect your emotional
state, it doesn't affect your sense of

615
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:12.159
life. It's just it's just Classico
music as a real can have a really

616
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.199
profound impact on you, and it
can really evoke powerful emotions in you.

617
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.599
It can. It can also teach
you a lot about your own sense of

618
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:28.320
life and and about your own what
you like and what you don't, your

619
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.480
own values. Uh. Class ga
music does. It requires work because it

620
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:37.599
requires focus, and focus is something
that in modern society attention span. Another

621
00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:43.159
reason why music is so appealing popular
music is because it doesn't require attention,

622
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:47.519
and we have we've been again trained
to have very very very short attention spans.

623
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:52.800
You can blame iPhones if you want, but television, lots of things

624
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:57.119
cause us to have very very short
attention s plans and everything has to be

625
00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:00.960
visual. It's not visual, we
lose interests. And music videos were big

626
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:05.840
once upon a time because it was
you can focus on the music alone,

627
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:10.239
yet I actually see something because the
classico music has to have you know,

628
00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:14.480
has the potential for this, but
it does require real effort, and it

629
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:17.280
requires real focus, and it requires
real attention. It requires being in the

630
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:23.719
moment without letting your mind drift and
just experiencing something not for one or two

631
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:30.960
or three minutes, but for twenty
minutes, for an hour, and and

632
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:35.360
and letting that experience overwhelm you.
And that's how you get to the sublime.

633
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:39.000
You get to the sublime by by
really immersing yourself in it. You

634
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:45.599
know, I hate when classico music
is used as background music because it's not

635
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:50.800
something to be experienced in the background. That's that's contemporary music. Even jazz,

636
00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:52.760
I think could be used for that. But classgow music needs to be

637
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.639
really you need to devote time and
you need to devote effort to it.

638
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:01.840
But the rewards are stunning when you
do that. And then and then again

639
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:07.079
with music, the more you listen
to, the more you learn. The

640
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:13.199
more you can listen to, you
can you know. You can start out

641
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:16.719
by finding I don't know, Valganer
very very difficult to listen to, but

642
00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:22.360
you can train yourself, and by
listening to other composers, ultimately it makes

643
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:27.400
Valkaner easier. You can find you
can start out by listening to Bach and

644
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.719
thinking blurs, there's nothing there.
But as you learn more about music,

645
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.079
you find that you can appreciate Bach. I don't think he'll ever rise the

646
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:38.119
level of Beethoven, but you can
appreciate him. The same with the same

647
00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:45.000
with a lot of the great composers. Again, if you read a history

648
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:51.159
of if you read an history of
music, the people who identified as great

649
00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:54.639
composers are probably great composers. There's
probably something there that makes them great composers

650
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:59.000
esthetically. So whether you want to
figure it out or not is up to

651
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.800
you, but it's it's there's value
in figuring it out why they're considered great.

652
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.039
It expands you your breath in terms
of the music, even if you

653
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:12.320
never fully enjoy them. The only
period in which I think they started.

654
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:15.960
Ends of music are too dismissive.
And this is true of painting and sculpture.

655
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:19.559
As well, is the nineteenth century, where there were so many great

656
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:24.599
composers, so many great painters,
so many great sculptors, that it's easy

657
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:29.440
just to focus on a few names
and dismiss everybody else, even though the

658
00:55:29.559 --> 00:55:34.320
second third tier sculptors and painters were
better than first tier sculptures and painters and

659
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.679
maybe any other era. So the
nineteenth century is just there's so much.

660
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:40.119
There's so much literature, there's so
much painting, there's so much music,

661
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:45.960
there's so much art. Generally,
it's just this explosion of great arts.

662
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:51.480
And actually there's a great lecture there
about connecting that to capitalism and the enlightenments

663
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:55.159
and there maybe I'll do that one
day. That's a good idea. I

664
00:55:55.239 --> 00:56:00.519
have a suggestion, by the way, if somebody is interested to spand is

665
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:07.159
music playlist what I do. For
example, there's for example, I like

666
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:10.800
rothemine Off second piano Concerto. I
go to chat GPT and I tell him

667
00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:17.320
I love rothmin Off second piano Concerto. Recommend me other works that could be

668
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:21.719
similar to that, and it gives
you a whole list of great works.

669
00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:29.480
So it's not hard in classic because
there's so much there is it's difficult to

670
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:32.079
pick from so for so much it
makes it not anyway, you know,

671
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:36.119
there's so much it's it's but yeah, I mean, if you can use

672
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:39.239
chat GPT, that's great, but
there really is. I mean, I'm

673
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:46.480
still discovering pieces I don't know that
are beautiful. And yeah, there's there's

674
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:52.800
just and and the other thing about
music, but like painting and sculpture is

675
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:55.800
the really good stuff you can listen
to again and again and again and again

676
00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:01.280
and it doesn't get It never gets
born, never gets whereas most pop songs,

677
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:05.559
even the best, Like I can
listen to Pink Foid, I love

678
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:07.880
Pink Foid, Okay, I can
listen to an album once and then I

679
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:12.360
probably have to wait three years before
I listen to it again. Like it's

680
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:15.119
not something that I want to listen
to once one, But you put on

681
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:20.000
Beatovin and I'm into it no matter
when, right, and it doesn't it

682
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.280
doesn't change that fact. So and
if you get to the really mediocre popular

683
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:32.679
music once is too much. So
let's end with your favorite paintings. One

684
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:37.039
of your favorite paintings and one of
your have a lot of favorite paintings.

685
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:39.840
I don't have strong favorites. I
have a lot of favorite paintings. I

686
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:45.000
mean, I mean the painting right
back there. The the Astronomer by Vermeer

687
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:49.119
is one of my favorites, and
as is the even more and I like

688
00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:53.840
even better as the Geographer, which
is harder to find. I mean,

689
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:58.679
this is one of my favorite paintings
among many. I was looking for Frederick

690
00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:04.159
Clayton. This is Dick Layton.
It's a painter's honeymoon. It's just I

691
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:12.400
think it's a The whole organization of
the painting is to focus you on a

692
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:16.000
triangle. Again, there's always triangles
and great paintings, right, And that

693
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:24.440
is their their heads, their faces
linked together, drawing you down to their

694
00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:30.760
hands linked together, drawing you to
his hand painting. I mean, he

695
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:36.159
is, he is a painting,
But she is completely in on on this

696
00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:38.760
career choice, right. She's not
She's not fighting him over his choice to

697
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:45.039
be a painter. She's completely committed. It's it's clearly reflective of of of

698
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:50.800
of you know, of a real
bond between them, of real love.

699
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:57.440
Who expression is an expression of interest. His expression is of a certain intensity

700
00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:01.079
that comes from being a painter.
This scene is a beautiful scene it's beautifully

701
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:07.079
painted, it's shop it's in focus. But but you know that doesn't mean

702
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:10.000
it's flat in the sense that your
eye will go anyway. Your eye goes

703
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:14.159
where the paint and wants you to
go. It goes to to her face.

704
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:15.679
Looking at the drawing. If you
look at the whey that where does

705
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:21.119
the light shine. The light shines
on her face, on their hands together,

706
00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:27.920
and on and on his hand drawing
that and that again is a triangle

707
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:31.679
there the garment. If you look
at her dress and the light and the

708
00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:37.840
folds and the dress all moving your
eye upwards towards her face and her head.

709
00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:42.480
It's it's driving, it's driving their
eye, eye up. So a

710
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:46.320
good painting always has the artist has
always thought about where your eye is gonna

711
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:50.400
go, and where he wants your
eye to go, and what are the

712
00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:54.519
details he wants you to capture.
Whether you're capturing it consciously is subconsciously.

713
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:59.079
Most people just look at this painting. They're not seeing anything, you know,

714
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:01.480
beyond wow. I mean, look
at that. That that's beautiful.

715
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:06.119
But you must have got a place, right, You've got a sense of

716
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:09.519
a place. There's a not an
emphasis on three dimensionality, but there's three

717
01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:15.800
dimensionality here. Uh, you've got
you've got a sense of a rich kind

718
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:21.719
of background of you know, a
beautiful location wherever this is happening. That

719
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:29.480
tree in the background with with fruits, and that that golden wall in the

720
01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:31.880
back. But the real emphasis is
on them, is on the couple and

721
01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:37.719
and what painting means to them.
There's a real warm fere with the color

722
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:42.039
palette. It's really really warm.
Yes, yes, it's very it's it's

723
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:50.159
a very what do you call it, there's a term. But the color

724
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:52.880
palette is all the same. It's
all brown, right, I mean everything

725
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:58.079
here is a shade of brown.
Monochromatic. What's that monochromatic? You want

726
01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:00.599
this chromatic? Thank you? It's
very monochrome attic, and the whole painting

727
01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:05.679
is monochromatic. There's there's gold,
but even the gold is shaded towards brown.

728
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:09.320
Even the food is shaded towards a
brownish color. So it's it's very

729
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:15.440
monochromatic. And it's very difficult to
pull off a good painting with monochromatic because

730
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:19.239
it's it often becomes boring, it's
often uninteresting. But I think that their

731
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.840
theme here and the use of light
here is very powerful. You'll notice the

732
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:28.559
light is all coming in from the
top left hand corner, and and and

733
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:32.000
and and going down. No for
the top right, sorry, top to

734
01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:35.840
the right, Yeah, I think
that, like there's a window light left

735
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:42.719
as well. Yes. Now for
the sculpture, yeah, I mean this

736
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:47.079
is a good one on the issue
of heroism. This is at the louver.

737
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:51.920
This is a sculpture of Spotocus.
But nobody has to tell you it's

738
01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:57.400
Spotocus. You know, this is
somebody who's just broken the chains, right

739
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:01.679
if you if you look at his
right he's holding a sword, but on

740
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:07.760
his wrists is the remnants of a
chain. In his left hand he is

741
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:10.880
actually holding what is left of the
chain. So he's already freed himself.

742
01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.119
He's got the sword, he's fighting
back. He's got this amazing pose of

743
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:24.920
confidence and determination and readiness for action, which I like a lot in painting.

744
01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:30.639
I mean, yes, I think
if you think heroism, here's heroism.

745
01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:35.039
Here's a He is a man who's
slave, enslaved and rebelled against it

746
01:02:35.079 --> 01:02:39.400
and stood up to his enslavers and
ultimately gets killed. But who you know,

747
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:44.320
But that's in the distant futures.
Who kiss and it's not in right.

748
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:49.280
The outcome is not in the sculpture. I like the I'm thinking of

749
01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:54.519
the guys looking at he's going to
kick his ass like he's going to concrete.

750
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:58.679
Yeah, and there's a lot there's
a little bit of similarity here to

751
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:02.840
Michael Anzels David in terms of the
look and the angle of the head.

752
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:08.320
There's there's actually another copy of this
they just recently discovered, is in another

753
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:20.199
museum. I think in fans it's
breath taking. For me, it's I

754
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:25.440
still haven't gotten into sculpture, so
it's always interesting to see new examples.

755
01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:30.199
I wasn't aware of this one.
Yeah. And and and the thing about

756
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:35.280
sculptures, I think Leonard once said
the sculpture should always be nude. We

757
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:40.039
should we should don't put clothes on
sculpture because it's centralized. It's it's very

758
01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:45.599
very essentialized. There's only so much
you can convey in sculptures that it's all

759
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:52.920
very condensed into a figure. Okay, so we have I think we have

760
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:59.039
come to our conclusion. What is
our call to action to the viewers,

761
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:04.039
besides becoming a your own Brook Show
member, go experience art, Go go

762
01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:10.480
out there and visit museums, put
on stream up, put it on your

763
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.840
stream some classical music. But don't
do it while riding a bus and while

764
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:17.559
running around. I've often recommended,
you know, turn off the lights,

765
01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:25.119
light down on the floor, blast
the music to eleven and and put on

766
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:33.000
Beetoven's fourth Piano Concerto and and let
it take over. They're on Brooke.

767
01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:36.840
It's been a pleasure. Thank you
very much. This was fun. Thanks you