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will be hearing from them in just a in it, Adam, how are
you doing? You know, It's funny, I feel like I go through
this daily mental battle now where I'm like, I'm getting so excited that that
sports are close to being back in some capacity, whether it's baseball or whether
it's basketball. But then it's like, are these plans responsible? Like we
see these positive tests come out every day for these prominent athletes in addition to
the many people around the country who are continuing to test positive as this pandemic
rages on, and it's like, how do I feel about this? It's
it's like I go through this every day. Now I'm with you and I
think people have conflated the concern or the belief that pro sports shouldn't be returning
this year with oh, you hate the sport that you cover or watch,
and maybe you should think about a different line of work. There are some
people out there that I you know NBA specifically when you're talking about certain announcers
or analysts or writers, where does genuinely seem like they hate the league.
But in this case, I think everyone's just struggling the ball. Pierce,
Sorry, sorry, everyone's just struggling to grapple with or most I would say,
you're struggling to grapple with the idea that hey, we really want the
NBA back, but is it safe to do so. And if you believe
that it's not safe to do so, if you think that they can should
be kicked until next season, I would I think every I think that's totally
I think either stance is kind of totally understandable. But we don't need to
conflate this concern with a distaste for the sport that we cover. And look,
the stakes are high here because you can argue that we all need to
get comfortable to some extent living with this virus. And with the way we're
headed, I think that's absolutely true. But the question still is can this
be done safely? And there's something about sort of just finding out when the
rest of the country isn't doing so well looking at the COVID nine team numbers
that that's really unsettling, And that's that's not even a political stance. I
just think it's something to grapple with. We want sports back, but I
think it's fair to question whether it's it's safe right now to have them back.
And with the NBA specifically, I think there are are certain little things
about the plan to the plan, to the best of our knowledge at least,
that just kind of rub you the wrong way, whether it's you know,
it's Adam Silver, the commissioner of the league, having the ability to
move in and out of the bubble through a quote backdoor that he and Disney
employees are going to have access to, or the use of this ring technology
that can monitor people and see whether they're going to be more likely to be
infected and to have complications from the virus, when that might that kind of
technology might be better used with healthcare providers and healthcare workers and people who are
on the front lines working to combat this pandemic. It's just little things.
It's not knowing what the long term ramifications are going to be. Are we
going to see someone like Zion Williamson if he's infected, Is he can have
long term lung damage that might hinder his career? Could something even worse happen?
There are just so many unknowns that, you know, I so badly
want to watch these guys go play. I so badly want to watch the
w NBA, I so badly want to watch MLB, But with these unknowns,
it it still feels so irresponsible, right, And look, that's the
thing is the risk will always be there, and there's the element of you,
you're not going to know what happens until the league tries to play.
But the idea of not having basketball for the rest of the season would be
that with time when the season slated to start in December, let's say,
you would be in a better position to just handle it in general where it's
not so much of a risk to find out if it works. And that's
where it comes from, because both you and I are going to watch basketball
when it comes back, and it certainly seems like it's going to come back.
I just don't there there's some people that seem like they hate the NBA
who cover the NBA. I get it, but I don't think it's unfair
at this point to think that maybe it's it's too unsafe for the league to
try coming back. I also get the stance that how are you going to
know whether it's unsafe unless you do come back. Except for the fact that
when COVID nineteen is just still so prevalent in society at large, there does
feel there's this element of of irresponsibility. It feels like with the NBA coming
back, and even the optics of if these players are going to be tested
daily and regular citizens don't have access to that type of frequent testing, how
does that make you feel when the numbers are still so bad around the nation?
Right, I think we might see a little bit of hate watching to
some extent, just because people are frustrated that it's back, but also simultaneously
happy. It might be a little like they hate watched Lebron James when he
joined the Miami Heat in twenty ten. That is that is a great segue
into the top ten Miami Heat of the decade beginning with the two proud of
that one beginning with the two thousand eleventh season. Can you provide just a
quick reminder for anyone who's tuning into the first one of these podcasts how the
ranking system works. Yeah. So we always put out the fan vote where
we ask you, our listeners, our Twitter followers, everyone to fill out
who you thought were the ten best, most valuable, however you choose to
find it most important players of the decade for the franchise in question. Then
we compiled those results as one component of our three pronged system. I have
a ballot, Dan has a ballot. We combined those to find a composite
top ten, and that is the top ten with which we're working here.
So Udonis Haslam and Justice Winslow both appeared on top tens for one of those
three components. Haslam was number ten for the fans. He was number nine
for me. He did not appear on Dan's ballot. Justice Winslow was ninth
for Dan. Did not appear for either me or the fans, so they
both barely missed the cut, and we actually have a two way tie for
the number nine spot. The first of those is Jimmy Butler, Butler was
up at number seven for the fans. I did not have him. Dan
did not have him, and that was pretty much what I expected going in,
just because current player, current All Star. Even in the midst of
a really poor shooting season, he's continued to provide so much value with his
versatility on both ends, the consistent perimeter defense that he brings. He's really
been the leader on and off the court of this team is back in playoff
contention for the first time since twenty seventeen eighteen. Yeah, for him,
specifically with the Lakers, it was easier easier to include someone like Anthony Davis
in their top ten because of how high he actually ranked on the ladder and
not only some of the advanced metrics, but minutes played. And with Butler,
you're talking about someone who ranks outside the top twenty five and minutes played
for the Heat this decade because he hasn't even been there a full season technically,
and when they have other quality options that that's just why I personally left
him off. I still wouldn't argue with someone who would include him. He's
certainly proven that he can be the best player on a quasi contender, and
there were some questions whether that was possible after how his time in Minnesota ended,
and then you know Philly being good but not great with him, and
the fact that he's sort of answered those skeptics and made it so that the
Heat feel like a destination again, not that they really ever weren't, because
we know guys want to play in Miami, but now of a sudden we're
talking about why wouldn't Free want to go with the Heat. It's not only
a great market, but they have an up and comer in them at a
bio And now they have Jimmy Butler, who's this entrenched top twelve, top
fifteen player wherever you wherever you put him. So if you have an all
MBA type guy, a top twelve fifteen guy on your roster for any sort
of semi significant length of time, I totally get the impetus to include them
in this exercise within the top ten. I'm not going to criticize anyone who
includes him. I think seven might be a little bit too high. He
did rise as high as third on some ballots. Personally, I went with
Haslam as my back of the ballot inclusion just because of how much he's meant
to this franchise. I think that his value has gone well beyond the fairly
limited on court contributions towards the back end of his career. But he's been
that consistent locker room presence, that consistent veteran mentor that conscience of the franchise,
and he's just been so vital to that team that you know, there's
there's talk about an eventual Jersey retirement, even though he hasn't really touched an
All Star level in quite some time, so that was more of the sentiment
route. I do think that despite the limited time, there is an objective
case for Jimmy Butler. But really this franchise, which over the last decade
we saw the Heatles era where they were just so dominant and then they fell
off as soon as Lebron left, and they've been kind of this fringe playoff
team that's that's rising, and that's led to so many names that I think
you could justify including in some capacity, whether it's Shane Battier or Mike Miller
or Justice Winslow or Haslam or Jimmy Butler or Dion Waiters, maybe even Kendrick
Nunn because or Tyler Harrow because they they've been so good as rookies. There
there are a lot of options and it's hard to hold any against any against
any of the voters here. Yeah, and look, Joannis hasn't make sense
just because of the longevity. He survived more iterations than the Heat of the
Heat than Dwayne Wade. At this point, I went with Ray Allen as
my back in the ballot pick just because if you want to put him a
little higher, that's fine. If you wanted to leave him off, those
probably where I'd take issue. If you look at Shane Batty and Mike Miller,
two names that I considered. Looking at Shane Batty's defense when the Heat
won their first title, or looking at Mike Miller going off and in some
playoff games, I tried to consider, would the Heat have still won those
games, or those series or that title if those players weren't there. And
I came to the answer of yes for the most part. Batty, it
might be a little bit debatable. With Ray Allen, you can't come to
that conclusion because he hit one of the biggest shots in NBA history to put
the Heat in a position to force Game seven and win their second straight championship
and what happens if Miami doesn't win that title. There's just I feel like
there are so many ramifications that maybe people will say, well, it doesn't
matter Lebron ends up leaving basically a year later, but there might have been
just some offseason trades or some I don't even know if that was the year
that Lebron's first player option. I don't think it was. That was after
four years, so, but maybe you look at making some weird trades.
Is Chris Bosh all of a sudden on the move from there? What does
it just do to Lebron's legacy in general? That was such a huge shot.
It was tough for me to leave ray Allen off, even though I
didn't necessarily think that he deserved to be any higher, because I'm not sure
just looking at what he can do as a floor spacer. He was a
liability on defense, though one time I got to Miami, it feels like
I can put him any higher. But I definitely wasn't going to leave him
off this list either, right, ray Allen actually did appear in all three
components. He was tied with Jimmy Butler for ninth. He was he was
ninth for the fans. He was tenth for both you and I, And
really it was it was that one shot that did it for me. I
mean Game six of the twenty thirteen finals, and I think anyone who watched
that remembers exactly where they were when he back pedaled into the corner and hit
that three over the Tony Parker close out after an offensive rebound and forced over
time after you know, the yellow ropes had already come out, after the
heat, fans and attendance had already basically vacated the arena. I was.
I was watching it in the first apartment that I had out in Colorado,
and I remember remember that I was watching it by myself and yelled so loudly
that I woke up my next door neighbor, who came and knocked on my
door to make sure that I was okay. And it was just it was
just like one of those moments where you know, how could you not react
that way? And I think because it was so obvious that that wasn't just
like some fluke shot. It wasn't like, you know, Derek Fisher knocking
down a three point with point four seconds left in a playoff game. But
this was a moment that Ray Allen had uniquely prepared for. Now we've heard
the stories about him training with a drill that he made up where he would
lay down in the paint, face down, have to get up and backpedal
into the corner. He knew how to time his steps and how to orient
himself to make sure that he didn't step out out of bounds, to make
sure that he got behind the arc in that little tiny space in the corner.
And like just the legacy that that shot has and the impact that it
has, the ramifications that it has that you touched on. Like that,
that moment alone was enough to justify Allan's inclusion, even if done nothing else
for the heat. Shout out Chris Bosh for grabbing that off as a rebound
too, and shout out Greg Popovich for seving out to Tim Duncan. If
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you take us two? The number eight player I can Number eight is Josh
Richardson. He did not appear on the Fans Top ten. He just barely
missed out on that final slot to you, Donna Saslam, but he was
seventh for both you and I. I know you've always been a huge fan
of Josh Richardson's two way game, just that you know, he's been a
switchable defender. He's been a guy who can create his own shot or work
off the ball, and even if he's not quite ascended to the level of
stardom that we might have expected when he was an up and comer, like,
it's pretty obvious that he's been a valuable player. Yeah, I love
Josh Richardson. He's had some struggles in Philly, but just looking at him
as more of a complimentary player, someone who can defend positions one through four.
Really the heat more liberally through him at power forwards than we've seen with
the Sixers. They really tried to stretch the shot creation abilities, and look,
they're there. If you want to have him run situational pick and rolls,
hit some pull up jumpers, he can do that. But he's really
just best served as someone who can move off the ball. He's gonna hit
open shots, he still can attack close outs, and so he's a very
well rounded player. And what he does on defense, though I don't think
he's fully appreciated enough. He's never really in the mentioned as often in the
all defense conversation, and he could be there in any given year. This
year, don't think he stayed healthy enough. But Josh Richerson, I feel
like is if you're a really good team, if you're a championship contender.
We say this a lot about certain players, like a Patrick Beverley, just
feels like he'd be a universal fit for any really good team. Josh Richerson
is that type of of wing because it's not it's he he's even more.
He has more universality to his game than even Robert Covington, where I think
people look at him as this plugging play three and D guy, and he
is. But Josh Richerson also provides you with functional shooting on the offensive end.
I'm talking about someone who can actually move, shoot off the move,
or really you know, go through handoffs. He's gonna be able to score
off the dribble. And so when you're plugging play while also providing that functional
shooting, it's sort of like he doesn't do what JJ Reddick does. But
that's what JJ Reddick is is He's not just a shooter. He's a functional
shooter. And now you combine that with Josh Richardson's defense and you just have
one hell of a player. And so I've always been a huge fan of
his game, and I'm a little bit surprised actually that the fans, just
knowing how he sort of identified as one of those you know, heat diamond
in the rust, that they were able to mind. I'm surprised that the
fans didn't have him in their top ten. Yeah, I think it's easy
to forget how much time he's spent with the heat. I mean he's seventh
and minutes played. He checks the there in his box. But just because
of how he rose to the level that he's reached. You know, after
a four year career at Tennessee, he was only the fortieth pick in the
twenty fifteen draft. He didn't play that much as a rookie. He really
struggled as a sophomore. Only shot thirty three percent on three pointers, only
shot thirty nine point four percent from the field. But he just gradually continued
to improve. And I think in some of the less obvious areas too,
Like if you look at the playmaking strides that he's made throughout his career.
He entered the league as a guy who didn't pass that much. She was
trying to make the most himself of the possessions that he did receive, but
gradually improved his assist numbers, improved the trust that Eric Spoelstra had in him,
running pick and rolls, running transition possessions without making mistakes. I'm always
a huge fan of guys who can pass without turning the ball over, just
you know, those mistake free passers who still manage to remain aggressive. It's
not a lack of mistakes because you're not trying things. It's a lack of
mistakes because you're trying the right things. And Josh Richardson seemed to increasingly filled
that niche throughout his time in Miami. Yeah, and look, how about
the twenty fifteen draft. In the second rounds just looking at the players that
came out of it, Montras Harrell was there as well, Josh Richardson obviously,
Rishawn Holmes, Norman Powell, that was Pat Connaughton. Even we thought
Willie hernan Gomez was going to be good for for a hot second. There's
you would have to go back and look at this, but that feels like
one of the seeing these great players from out the second round. But I
wonder if if any recent second round has yielded so many quality, impact,
impact players in the same draft. I actually think we're about to have one
of those. I think that this twenty twenty draft. I think we're going
to see a lot of guys taken late who are going to have a lot
of experience playing at the college level, and teams are starting to value those
four year contributors more and more. There are just a lot of names that
I like who are are projected at this moment to go in that in that
second round guys like Xavier Tillman or Cassius Stanley or Killy and Tilly or Grant
Riller, Marcus Howard. You know, I feel like this this twenty twenty
draft, for all the criticism that it gets at the top, justified criticism
because of the lack of guaranteed star power. It's I feel like it's a
little deeper than people realize, not some of your too far off topic.
As someone who has watched sub sixty minutes of draft film so far this year,
knowing that it's not going to happen until what is it twenty twenty five
at this point or something, I feel qualified to say that I totally agree
with you. I think that's absolutely fair and you should go watch Grant Riller
highlights because he's one of my favorite players in the draft. Who do we
have coming in at number seven? At number seven? We have Mario Chalmers.
He was number eight on the fan ballot, He was number eight for
me, and you had him all the way up at number five. I
feel like people sell Chalmers short, if only because of the reputation that he
developed during his time in Miami which is just this punching bag, Like you
couldn't watch more than two games without seeing Lebron yelling at Chalmers in some capacity.
I think that superseded the contributions that he brought, like the three point
shooting, the ability to serve as that secondary playmaker despite running the point,
you know, the big shots that he made. He was never a glamorous
contributor, but he was a consistently good one. Grand book. He worked
his butt off on defense too, And that's part of the reason I had
him so high is he was able to contribute while just being Lebron James,
his punching bag essentially. Yeah, so I think that that the longevity even
that an anecdote that you mentioned, and then look at it's hard. He
played a ball dominant position by being anything but And if we're going to give
sort of Patrick Beverly kudos for that, I'm not comparing the two on defense.
If that's how anyone takes this. If you want to give players props
for playing these hybrid roles or playing a role that really isn't synonymous with the
position that they're supposed to play, it's not really easy. And so for
someone that they could really count on. He hit some big shots in the
playoffs, he played some big postseason minutes for them. It never he didn't
defend like he was six two. It always felt like he was a little
bit bigger to me, and so I had no qualms about when you when
you factor in the longevity as well, I had no qualms about putting him
at number five. He was all over the place in the fan ballot.
He didn't appear on about a quarter of ballots, but he rose his is
fourth on some. His most commonplacement was eighth, so he was he was
just all over the place, which I felt was was pretty appropriate. I'd
still have trouble moving him over the next two guys that we're going to talk
about, but I get it just because of his importance to those title winning
teams. Well, then who who's the first of those next two guys.
The first of those next two guys is Bam Autobio. He was sixth for
both me and the fans, and you had him down at number eight,
which really caught me by surprise because he's another guy I've I've always thought that
you were a really big fan of I look Beam and Baio was really good.
I question whether he alone can anchor a really good defense, just because
things can get spotty if he is your primary back line defender. But if
you give me a big that can move his feet like he can, I'm
going to fall in love with him. And just knowing what he could do
on offense, setting running sets in the half court, bringing the ball up
the floor, can be crafty with his back to the basket. My whole
thing is this is his first season with minutes, and so I'm going to
sort of defer to, you know, players like Richardson, even whitesider Mario
Chalmers, Dragic who have just more extensive resumes with the Heat, And you
can't penalize a player necessarily for their role. And it was very clear last
year that bam Adebayo should have been playing more minutes from the jump. But
while the advanced metrics love him, the fact of the matter for me is
that this is just his first season with serious minutes and he still falls outside
the top ten in total minutes playing. I mean, Norris Cole has played
more minutes for the Heat this decade than bam Adebayo. And look that's not
to just work against him. I'm just trying to justify why I put a
guy like Richardson, Chalmers and Whiteside in front of him. Can you make
an argument that he's been the Heats best player this year? No, I
couldn't, just because I don't think he means nearly as much to their offense
as Jimmy Butler, and Jimmy Butler means more to their defense as well too.
To me, maybe it's debatable. I myself couldn't begin to outline a
case for it, though, Yeah, I agree, I I think it's
somewhat close, even even if I would have Butler above him, just because
of that versatility that he brings in. And yeah, it's maybe within the
context of the team, it's easy to see how Butler is so much more
valuable. But in terms of like team construction, I think it's easier to
find a guy like Butler than it is to find a guy like Autobio right
now, just because he's he's like the future of the center position here right
like, he checks every single box that you're looking for in a modern center,
maybe with the exception of three point shooting, which it seems like he's
on the cusp of showing he's taken thirteen this year, he's only made one,
but he's he's taken a lot of longer twos. He's starting to tease
out those portions of his game. And you know, just seeing him operate
on the perimeter with the ball, running running breaks, running sets, and
then defending on the perimeter, it just it feels like he does everything that
you want in a modern day center, and that's that's hard to find in
every team it's right now, I would say bam and Baio is more of
an anomaly relative disposition at this point, and while Jimmy Butler might be more
common when you look at his style because that's how you aren't want used to
play, he feels like more of the overall anomaly. And if you want
to say Bamati Bio is more important the Heat's defense, I totally get that
and I'll accept that. But you know, when Jimmy Butler plays without bam
Adabaio this season, the Heat have an offensive rating in the ninety third percentile
and bam Adebio, if you reverse that, please, without Jimmy Butler,
Heat have an offensive rating in a thirty fourth percentile. And that might say
to me, it just feels like wings or primary ball handlers. The guys
who are going to face up and can score that way, they're always going
to have inherently more influence over the offense, and by extension, that's going
to make them more important. They can change in certain situations. I think
you can argue Karl Anthony Towns in Minnesota Bam Atibaio just isn't close to that
level offensively just yet. Like you said, he's sort of teased the outside
parts of his game, looking at his shooting. So if that comes along,
perhaps he gets there. But right now I think it's pretty clear that
Jimmy Butler is more important to the heat m. So another question kind of
related to Autubio and kind of moving on to number five. Does it surprise
you that Hassan Whiteside, who checks in at number five, appeared above Bomb,
Autubio and all three components. He was fifth to Bam, sixth for
the fan vote, He was fifth for me, to sixth for BAM,
and for you. He checked in at six, then Bam was at eight.
Does that surprise you that he was across the board above? It doesn't
surprise me across the board because one there's there's no longevity, and maybe that
matters more if I were looking at both what you and I were going to
do for the fans, and this isn't this isn't an insult to anybody because
I can be box score jaw dropped at any point two Hassan White size numbers
just stand out more. You know, if you're going to see someone who
averages seventeen points in fourteen rebounds and two blocks, it's just it's going to
stand out more a little bit. And so when you couple that with his
longevity and then all so how he's just he's another heat success story and that
he's not. He was drafted thirty third overall by the Kings in twenty ten
and it kind of flamed out of the NBA by the time he really got
to Miami, and so he's more of an underdog in that sense than bam
Adebayo was as a first round pick. I think that all matters in the
discussion. Do I think that bam Adebio is going to end up being the
better overall player, the more valuable player, Yes, I think it will
rather easily easily. And look, there are fair questions about how how valuable
us on Whiteside was through the Miami Heat at points, just because his demeanor
was often criticized, their offense was it happened a lot pretty frequently where it
was better with him off the court. And then how much, you know,
particularly towards the end, the defense sometimes almost went unchanged with or without
him on the court. And so if you're going to have someone who's just
this premier shot blocker and considered a rim protector, you would like that,
particularly on defensive side, the differential to be more pronounced and certainly at least
in his favor, not against it. And so just had he had a
very complicated relationship with his with his tenure. When you look back on it
when it was in the moment earlier on, I think you could appreciate it
because he was just giving you production you never expected. Once you signed that
contract in twenty sixteen, I think it was without twenty seventeen, I can't
even remember right now. Those off seasons blurred together. But once you signed
that big money contract, and it it must have been two thousand and sixteen.
He was a four year deal. Once you sign that big money contract,
you know twenty sixteen and seventeen that kind of felt for him like a
sweetheart year, but it was downhill from there where you didn't really see him
playing as much, where there were rumors coming out that he was unhappy with
his role, and then by last season specifically, it felt like the Heat
sort of knew that bam Adebayo was going to be the better player and was
their future, but you couldn't do anything with us on white Side until the
off season. And look, he had good years in Miami. I just
think bam Adebayo was gonna end up being better overall, and the sample size
that we've seen though, I feel like if you pretty clearly have to give
the edge to him. I really had no idea where Whiteside was going to
fall in the fan balloting, just because of that that complicated relationship that he
had between stats and winning, right. You know, we saw it early
on when he would get a triple double and talk about how his two K
rating needed to go up, like session shooting threes. Yeah, and there
were so many intriguing elements to his game, those elbow jumpers that he seemed
to make pretty consistently as he was carving out a bigger role with Miami that
that sort of went away later in his Heat tenure, the leading the league
in block shots per game with three point seven during the twenty fifteen sixteen season,
being a consistent double double threat, being one of the better rebounders in
the NBA, but at the same time he chased rebounds, he chased blocks
at the expense of defensive positioning, like he was like the poster boy for
the idea that blocks didn't necessarily equal good rim protection. It felt like he
was always a difficult player to evaluate because he was putting up such massive numbers
and showing up fairly prominently in a lot of analytical senses, but it didn't
always equate to winning. And he puts a cap on your offense a little
bit. And we've seen it in Portland where he can't do the same short
roles or those quick passes that use of nurkicch made, and so he's fine.
It's sort of this. I call him a rim jogger. Rim jogger
because it never really seems like he's blitzing towards the basket. But he's definitely
useful in that role. But if he wants to post up more, if
you need him to do more as a passer or someone who can hit shots
on these short roles. Those limitations they're just they're there. That's fine.
But if we were to look at their careers in totality when they both retire,
I think we end up saying that beam Adebayo had the substantially more impactful
career. You know what's what's surprising to me about Whiteside, though, is
the Heat are so good at getting the best out of players. Eric Spoelstra
is so good at using every single player under his purview in the right way.
And they did manage to turn Whiteside into something special, you know,
after he was a second round pick in twenty ten, after he'd flamed out
with the Kings, and they really resurrected his career. But at the same
time, like when was the last time we saw a player go elsewhere and
be more successful? And I feel like that's what's happened in Portland this year,
where you know, he still has some of those stat chasing tendencies,
he still pursues blocks in the wrong situation sometimes, but it also feels like
he's playing with more effort, with more intelligence, and with more desire for
the Trailblazers than he did with the Heat, And it's just so strange to
me because usually that's reversed when Miami's involved. Right, let's see how he
deals with maybe not starting though behind us off Nurkicch once the season resumes.
I think that's also fair to see. Interesting yea, yep, yep.
So trivia question related to Hassan Whiteside. Where does he rank in Heat history
for total blocks? And can you name h who's ahead of him? All
right, so there's somebody ahead of him. I'm gonna say he's third.
You're correct, Okay? Can you name both of them? Oh? Absolutely
not? Alonzo Morning number one with more than twice as many as anyone else
by one. Actually shout out to Zoe. I'm not going to get the
other one. He has one thousand, six hundred and twenty five blocks in
his career. Alonzo Morning, Whiteside had seven hundred eighty three shot can possibly
be on there? Kenny Shock is sixth? Good for Shock? I got
I got nothing. You're gonna have to spoil who the other one is for
me? Well, he's twenty nine blocks ahead of ahead of white Side despite
playing six hundred and twenty four more games for the Heat, and it is
the greatest shot blocking guard of all time. No, Dwyane Wade has more
blocks with the Heat than Whiteside. I feel like that's actually something that I
should have gotten. Yeah, I don't actually think it's that surprising, just
because he's always been a good shot blocker out of the backcourt and he spent
so much time with the Heat. I mean, Haslam is the only guy
who's even close in games played in Heat franchise history. Did you map out
this trivia question well in advance, No, it literally came up with it
as you were talking. All right, that's impressive, that's a fun one.
Yeah. Yeah. But let's move on to number four, and it
is a guy who ranks hold on, hold on, hold on forty seven
in blocks in Heat history. That one actually not bad, Top fifteen,
sixty one, top fifty, and that is Goren Dragic, noted shot blocker.
From this point forward, the components were unanimous. Dragic appeared in fourth
place for the fans, for me, for Dan, and that will also
be true of our top three. So I'll stop saying they're individual components scores.
But yeah, Goran Dragics one of the more enjoyable players to watch because
of his fearlessness attacking the basket, his incredible finishing ability. I feel like
that's the first thing you have to associate with him is just now, this
is a guy who's who's six foot three, who doesn't even play anywhere close
to above the rim, but he always seemed to convert shots on the interior.
Yeah, sixty five point six percent shooting for his career inside three feet
and that's while factoring in his disastrous rookie campaign where he shot forty two point
point three percent from from that close range. And I mean, if you
sort of remove that from the equation, he's at sixty six point three percent
inside three feet for his career. And it look it helps that he always
kind of had that maybe out so much anymore, but he's really slippery off
the dribble, and then someone who can hit those Yes, he can hit
those off the dribble jumpers, but he's also going to hit those stand still
threes as well, and it makes him very hug and play on the offensive
end. You do kind of have to worry about him on defense, though,
And that's where it would say more than kinda, so you have to
tell your personnel more specifically where it's He doesn't work in every lineup, but
if you were concerned just about offense, he absolutely could. Were you at
all surprised that he ended up being consensus for four. I thought after the
top three that maybe there would have been some some wiggle room or did you
just always expect going in for him to finish fourth. I thought it was
a pretty obvious position, and it really seems like he's kind of hovering between
tears where there was there was some flux in the fan balloting between the five
and seven spots with Whiteside, Autobio and Butler, but Dragic was basically alone
and fourth. On almost every ballot he was either fourth or fifth. But
because of the variety of players who people had above him in that fourth spot,
when he did appear at number five, you know he was never going
to be in the top three. He did appear there on one ballot,
but yeah, it seemed like that was just his preordained position, just as
offensive dynamo who can score from all three levels, has that smooth lefty stroke,
that slippery ball handling, but didn't do anything on defense and has been
there for a while. Yeah, he's been here more than half the decade,
which is which is just kind of bizarre to think about. It seems
like just yesterday that everyone was debating whether the Heat should give up two first
round picks for him, And then you look and you're like, oh,
that was I was in twenty fifteen. That was a pretty long time ago.
It was. Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard to believe that
it's been that much time since we had that three headed Eric bloodsoe Isaiah Thomas
goran dragic experiment in Phoenix that was doomed from the start because Phoenix. Yeah,
I think that's the best way to put it, because Phoenix and he
look, he was he had a monstrous twenty sixteen twenty seventeen season. I
know that he didn't make the playoffs that year, but it is a travesty
that he was not an All Star that year. Yeah, and that was
the season where they went bonkers in the second half right of the of the
year. So yep, huge part of that. But I'm deserving number four.
I just thought there might have been less of a consensus there. Yeah,
no, there was. There was definitely a consensus there, But there
was even more of a consensus for the number three spot, you know there
was there was some debate for the fans, not so much between you and
I for a number one and number two, but everyone had Chris Bosh in
the third spot, and for good reason. I mean, he was never
as important to those teams as Lebron James and Dwyane Wade were. But like,
were you really going to put him below Dragice, below Whiteside, below
Butler or Autobio, Like, come on, do you remember that people turned
against him by the basically the or at points during the heat tenure, where
was that he had to go or that he was somehow holding them back when
it was really the way he played, in the concessions that he made on
offense that really allowed them to exist the best way that they did to Lebron
at the four can't really happen unless you can have Chris Bosh at the five
and he does so much. Look at shooting numbers weren't great at the time
when he was firing threes, but if you don't have him sort of stretching
the floor, it makes a job of the offense a lot harder. And
then he was always just rock solid defensively, he was a pretty good rim
protector, and the fact that he could stand up against certain fives, but
that you were also using him at the four for the first two seasons.
Just a very good player, and I think a lot of what he did
end up getting lost in the haze that was Lebron James and Duane Wade.
Right and first and foremost, Chris Bosh is just a treasure of a human
being, just like he was always entertaining the memes that that resulted from his
time in Miami. The He's the reason with which he played. He's the
reason that I learned the word photo bomb exists right right, and he had
some incredible ones during his time at South Beach. But I mean, I
think he needs so much more credit than he gets for accepting that third wheel
role. He was an absolute star with the Toronto Raptors and just had to
complain letely change his game from the get go. During his final season with
the Raptors, he required assists on forty nine point eight percent of his made
shots. That number rose to sixty point three percent during his first season with
the Heat. Throughout his first playoffs playoff run, with Lebron and Dwayne Wade.
That actually elevated sixty five point two percent. He became so much more
of a complimentary figure and had to completely change the way he played on offense
and on defense. He hadn't played much center with Toronto. He had to
suddenly start playing center, as you mentioned, to make those lineups with Lebron
at the four work, and as Eric Spoelster said after the twenty twelve title,
like that is what took the team to another level. Direct quote,
is that really took our team to another level. Because of his speed,
his skill set, he could defend multiple positions, but as a center,
he became one of the tougher covers in the league. He really had to
sacrifice quite a bit and get out of his comfort zone and things that he
was used to in Toronto. I'm still not sure if that decision will alter,
timately help or hurt his long term legacy because he did have to sacrifice
those individual numbers, those individual accolades for the betterment of the team. It
allowed him to get championships, allowed him to write his name in the history
books that way. But that is a sacrifice that not many players of his
caliber were willing have been willing, will be willing to make. We saw
it with Kevin Love in Cleveland, where there was some strife there with his
transition that just didn't Maybe it's because social media and leaks weren't as prevalent then,
but that just didn't seem to exist with Bosh and so he deserves all
the credit in the world. And look that first year without Lebron, though
he only appears in forty four games, it was sort of this reminder of
how good he actually was. He puts up through his forty four appearances twenty
one point one points seven rebounds, two point two assists, is shooting thirty
seven point five percent from distance. That was his age thirty season, and
if not for the blood plot issues, who knows how he ends up closing
out that year. So he was really re establishing himself as one of those
premier All Stars. And that's his status that he surrendered when he signed with
the Heat. And you're absolutely right that not only would very few players make
that concession, even fewer would do so when they're just in the thick of
their prime. We're talking about his age twenty six season when he went to
Miami Bosch had to retire after his age thirty one season. I mean,
the retirement itself happened well after that, just because he wanted to make that
comeback and wasn't able to because of the blood clotting issues. But in his
final season, operating as more of a solo star, there nineteen point one
points and seven point four rebounds, still shooting the ball efficiently from every level.
If he had stayed healthy and played another let's say four or five seasons
in Miami, do you think there's any chance that we could have been talking
about him in one of the top two spots. Oh yeah, I would
say so, just because Dwayne Wade not only did he leave for a second,
but he also kind of had those just reduced production seasons where maybe Bosch
wouldn't have had those. I mean, now we're talking twenty fifteen. Twenty
sixteen is a world ago, so you're actually talking about what four three seasons
now of separation between that four seasons actually, so maybe he's kind of in
that same boat. It would have been tough to overcome the emotional attachment that
Miami has to Dwayne Wade, and rightfully so. But his case for the
number two spot. If he'd been playing at the level he did in the
first two years that Lebron left through this exercise or up until it whatever,
he probably have a pretty good case for number two. I agree, But
as it stands, Dwayne Wade was the pretty obvious and consensus number two.
I know you just said a second back that he spent a minute away from
the Heat. I refuse to acknowledge that that happened. I'm wiping his Chicago
Bulls tenure in brief, Cleveland Cavalier's tenure from the Chicago had Lifer. It's
Cleveland that you're wipe off the ledge. You will always be a Heat lifer.
He never wore another uniform. He's gonna go down in the history books
that way, because I want him too. For anyone that had him number
one, I'd just be a little bit curious what the justification is there.
Maybe it's the purely the longevity, because there's kind of this noticeable drop off
from him after that twenty ten twenty eleven campaign where he's playing fewer minutes.
As my phone goes off everywhere, he's playing fewer minutes. They had like
these maintenance programs in place where he was going to play in in fewer games
and he just wasn't at the same level. Still a really good player,
but Lebron would clearly be a cut or five above him. And I guess
when you look at the just the season spent their discrepancy where we're talking about
four seasons for Lebron and you look at Wade and Nowvis when you're at eight,
that definitely that has to matter. beIN's twice as many seasons there.
I just I still would question why there would be so many people who did
list them at number one. Yeah, I think it has to be the
import to the franchise. I mean, this is this is an organization and
a city to which he meant so much that you know, we briefly saw
Dade County renamed Wade County. You know, like that that that kind of
thing has to matter. The longevity has to matter, playing four thousand more
minutes, but they were at at a significantly lower level than Lebron's. I
mean, Lebron is number one. I think everyone knew that. But even
though he only spent four seasons with the Heat during this decade, like those
four seasons were incredible. The twenty twelve thirteen season in particular, I think
you can. You can make a convincing argument, and I believe we have
on some of these podcasts that that was the best season that he's played in
his entire NBA career, just where everything clicked, where he was seeing the
court so well, where he was taking threes and making threes. We're just
everything worked for an absolute juggernaut of a team. It would have been easy
when you're operating in a Big three alongside two other obvious Hall of Fame talents
in Wade and Bosh to kind of fade into the background a little bit more
than he did. But despite being but one member of that triumvirate, he
was so obviously the leader and the best player on a consistent championship contender that
for me, it was like, Okay, I'm filling up this ballot.
Let me throw Lebron into the number one spot, wading the number two Bosch
into the number three, not even going to give any of those a second
thought. Yeah, that twenty thirteen year from Lebron absolutely ridiculous. First Team
on NBA First Team, All Defense, League, MVP Finals, MVP just
really one of those queen sweeps and as just like everything you outlined for him,
that that year is the one that comes to mind for me more so
than any other one when you're talking about the best version of Lebron James.
And look, also, despite his spending significantly less time There's he's just by
far and away the Miami Heat leader in value over replacement player through his four
seasons with the Heat, and you just look at how how important he was
to what that franchise became. I know people say that everyone wanted to play
in Miami, but he sort of turned the Heat into this even greater hot
spot by by going there. It seemed to really open the floodgates. Four.
Well, why wouldn't you go to Miami. There's you're not going to
have to pay state state income tax, and it's a great place to live.
And you know, now Dwayne Wade isn't there, and that still sort
of carries out. And look, Dwayne Wade has played a huge role in
that. I don't want to get that twisted. And he played Miami.
Probably doesn't get Lebron with without Dwyne Wade, which is something else to consider,
and maybe that's part of the argument in favor of b Wade. Being
number one? Is that do you have Lebron with without Dwayne Wade there but
leader and win shares for this team too, even though we spent only four
years there, and it's by a mile sixty five point three to Dwayne Wade
forty six point three in the number two spots. So I didn't even think
twice about putting him him number one. So my one outstanding question for you
before we move on to the honorable mentions is in the next decade, where
do you think Janice is going to rank? That's rude. That would have
been better for the Raptors spot. I feel like maybe we'll do it again
there. Yeah, so Jannist will probably rank Jannie is staying in Milwaukee.
That was my hot take. I hope we just picked up a few bucks
listeners by me making that prediction. You ready for the honorable mentions? I
hope. So there really weren't any terrible ones here. Honestly, I thought
you're gonna say they really weren't any honorable mentions. No, we had a
twenty eight different people up here on the bellot, so outside the top ten
from the fan vote, we had Josh Richardson at eleven. Justice Winslow at
twelve, Mike Miller at thirteen, Ray Allen at fourteen, Shane Battier at
fifteen, Kendrick Nunn at sixteen, Dion Waiters at seventeen, freeway tie between
Kelly Olenock, Richard Lewis and Tyler Johnson at eighteen. We had Chris Anderson
the Birdman at twenty one, James Johnson at twenty two, Tyler Harrow at
twenty three, James Jones at twenty four. He was tied with Derek Jones
Junior, and then a three way tie between Duncan Robinson, lu All Dang
and Norris Cole, who all appeared once in the ten spot. Is there
like a I Don't Drink None fan page that follows NBA math on Twitter?
There might be, I mean, we did, We've had, We've had
like Shelvin Mack fan clubs and all sorts of random things happen. So that's
at one time, Orlando Magic Assist leader Shelvin Mack to you, that's right,
that's right. I need to give him more respect in all things.
Well, that'll do it for this podcast. Next time we're coming at you
will have the top ten Milwaukee Bucks of the decade. If you would like
to participate in that, we strongly encourage it. The pole is live at
NBA MATH. Go follow NBA MATH on Twitter at NBA Underscore Math. Also
make sure you're following Adam on Twitter Twitter at Framo zero nine on Twitter.
And until next time, I leave everybody with the shout out too. Miami
Heat Living Legends Eric Dampier, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous,
Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define one of
the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new
Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth,
only on Showtime