1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,120 Are you guys in the same room that that might explain some of those Yeah, 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:09,679 we are. Unfortunately, he said, ask not what your country can 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:15,279 do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Mister gorbachaw 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:21,920 tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast. Peter and Robert out time, 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,000 James Lodox. We've got Steve Hayward, Lucretia and John You the Three 6 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:31,320 Whiskey Teams, alets Averrizl's a podcast. I understand my predecessor's legal past today. 7 00:00:32,039 --> 00:00:35,600 So here's what I would say to mister Trump. Join me or I'll 8 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:40,840 join you in telling the Congress to pass this Bipartistan border security bill. We 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,920 can do it together. The United States is being overrun by the Biden migrant 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,640 crime. It's a new form of vicious violation to our country. Welcome everybody. 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,280 It's the Ricochet Podcast, Number something or other. I don't know. 12 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,679 I'm James Lylax, and I'm here to tell you that Rob Long and Peter 13 00:00:57,759 --> 00:01:03,039 Robinson have quit smoking years ago as far as I know, but they're out 14 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:06,799 and about in the world and in their stead we have, believe it or 15 00:01:06,879 --> 00:01:11,400 not, the Three Whiskey Happy our gang. That would be Lucretia. That 16 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:17,879 would be Steve Hayward. That would be America's foremost McRib enthusiast. John, 17 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:22,159 You welcome everybody to the Ricochet podcast. Good morning, James. Yes, 18 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:26,840 I'm happy to be back. Just like a happy meal. Absolutely yes, 19 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:30,799 that mick rib with its pressed animal flesh into a familiar shapes, washed down 20 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,840 with a shamrock shake. Oh, John's living high right, I'm hungry already 21 00:01:36,599 --> 00:01:40,439 already. Well, rather than sit here and discuss a fast food and its 22 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:42,439 implications of the American diet, we should probably go to the news of the 23 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:47,079 world, which is as ever bountiest. Where do we start? How about 24 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:51,079 the border? People are saying that, you know, this might be an 25 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,640 issue, This might actually be an issue in the upcoming election. And to 26 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:57,680 that end, we saw a couple of people vying for the job of president, 27 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,359 one already is the other was heading down to Texas. So who wants 28 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,840 to take this first? Biden at the border apparently, he said, he 29 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:10,439 said, it's long past time to act, folks. We need to move 30 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:17,080 on this. And that's great coming from somebody who obviously has been moving heaven 31 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,000 and earth in the last three years or so to make sure that America is 32 00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:24,759 safe from unwanted incursions to the south. So somebody take it first. Lucretia, 33 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,759 I'll hand it to you. What do you think of Biden and Trump 34 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,560 at the border? I'll take it and just comment on a couple of things. 35 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:36,280 That Biden went to the place in Texas which is probably right now the 36 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:40,439 most secure, but all of Texas is fairly secure, and that's because Biden's 37 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:50,039 refusal to act prompted Texas Governor Greg Abbott to send migrants to all sorts of 38 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,280 places that were virtue signaling how much they loved immigrants and how welcome they were 39 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,800 there. And of course it's destroying those cities. So they generally speaking Blue 40 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:04,159 seas, He's New York, Chicago, et cetera. And so Biden of 41 00:03:04,199 --> 00:03:08,759 course goes to visit the place that Texas has single handedly cleaned up and stopped. 42 00:03:09,319 --> 00:03:13,879 I think it went from thirty thousand a month ago to seventy five hundred 43 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:20,919 apprehensions today and or yesterday when this month when Biden was there, And so 44 00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:24,280 you know, Biden's just such a I can't use those words. This is 45 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,199 a family show. But to come and say that it's a long pastime to 46 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:34,039 act. Who does he think, who's fooling with that? You know, 47 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:39,120 My whole point is Trump went down to the other place, Eagles Pass, 48 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:45,120 and pointed out everything that Biden had done wrong. And everybody's saying Trump's winning 49 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:50,960 on the border. But it only matters because illegal immigration is now a problem 50 00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:53,080 for the whole country in many ways, whereas it used to be a problem 51 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:57,680 just for me and my folks here at the border. Stephen, do you 52 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:00,000 think that Trump has legitimacy that he had for years ago when it comes to 53 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,319 eight years ago when it comes to talking about the border, after all he 54 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:08,039 was the president. Yeah, well, of course. You know, illegal 55 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,159 crossings plummeted under Trump, and for a bunch of reasons. One is, 56 00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:15,719 I think the word went out that not a good time to try and cross 57 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:17,720 into the border to the United States, because Trump means what he says, 58 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,879 even in his actions such as building the wall didn't follow. And I think 59 00:04:23,879 --> 00:04:26,240 there's a lot too. I mean, I've been wondering for a long time, 60 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,720 how do people get the word and how are always caravans being organized to 61 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,000 get people from all over the world down to our southern border. By the 62 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,600 way, what border I mean, the joke here is that we have a 63 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:41,839 border. This doesn't just happen spontaneously. So I think Trump still has his 64 00:04:41,879 --> 00:04:45,480 credibility because even if he's chaotic and all the other things you can say, 65 00:04:45,959 --> 00:04:47,560 I think he can say that at least he means it when we know Biden 66 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:53,360 is plainly lying and just playing politics. And John, do you believe that 67 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,120 people are willing to just forget about what's happened in the you know, in 68 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,319 the last eight years and rollerdized with a guy who's talking the toughest on the 69 00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:06,680 matter. Well, James, thanks for having me back on the podcast. 70 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,519 Why haven't I been on more often? I'm still pissed off that you've been 71 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,120 blocking me from taking over your host spot. You know how badly I want 72 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,800 to be on the main Ricochet podcast. I would even give up two mcribs 73 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,199 to come back. Do you agree you're angry at me for blocking you for 74 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:30,360 taking my job. That's that's great, that's in the spirit of self interest. 75 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:38,000 Then an abdignation of the self, I give it all over to you. 76 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Oh no, don't do that. Oh no, oh my god, 77 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,759 No, I don't actually want to be responsible for this huge machine Jesus. 78 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,279 So here's one thing where I disagree with Steve and Lucretia. I think is, 79 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,160 yes, Biden has failed at the border. Yes, a lot of 80 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:57,079 the border policies are in the hands of the president, but I think it 81 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,560 is a federal function alone, and I find it actually I understand why Governor 82 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Abbot wants to send the National Guard to the border. I understand why he 83 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,199 wants to put up wire on the border. But I don't think states are 84 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,079 allowed to interfere with the federal government when it carry outs its functions for good 85 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,879 or ill. So if Texas or Florida thinks that Biden is right not enforcing 86 00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:23,879 our immigration laws strictly enough at the border, I don't think the answer is 87 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,879 to send in troops. I find that a dangerous path to start going down. 88 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,480 It reminds me, unfortunately, of the way some southern governors try to 89 00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:38,160 oppose the federal government's enforcement of Brown versus Board of Education, and the answer 90 00:06:38,199 --> 00:06:41,360 is at the ballot box. I find this actually the preferable answers. Don't 91 00:06:41,399 --> 00:06:45,920 send troops to oppose federal officers of the border. Try to get the issue 92 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,360 on the national election, try to get Congress to do something about it or 93 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:54,439 try to change the president who will do something different with immigration. So my 94 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:00,879 point, John, the most important thing that Abbot did was send illegal immigrants 95 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,120 to sanctuary cities across the country, which did, in fact make it a 96 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,680 much more national and a much more political issue than it had been before. 97 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:13,120 So are you opposed to that too, or is that just something too close 98 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,399 to immigration that a governor isn't allowed to do to protect his citizens. I 99 00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:19,879 mean, I think it's a cute political stunt. I don't think there's anything 100 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,240 illegal about it. If people want to take free bus tickets from the state 101 00:07:25,279 --> 00:07:28,800 of Texas and go somewhere else, that's certainly fine. But I don't think. 102 00:07:29,279 --> 00:07:31,600 But I think what Abbott is doing now is dangerous, which is to 103 00:07:32,519 --> 00:07:40,600 risk some kind of confrontation between the Texas National Guard and federal border officers. 104 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,680 I mean, I think the federal government should again, for good or ill, 105 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,360 whether you agree with the policy or not, should prevail. See John, 106 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:50,759 this is why you've been in Berkeley too long, and in the Department 107 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,920 of Justice before that too long. The argument that we have with you is 108 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:59,240 not really legal. Your points are completely cojent. In the abstract this is 109 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,120 a political It seems to me that you really can't say as a political matter 110 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,000 that a state is without any kind of remedy when the federal government is not 111 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:11,519 doing its duty. That's that's the root of our difference, and the fact 112 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,360 that all it is is a Supreme Court opinion that says that somehow the federal 113 00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:20,680 government has exclusive control. Who cares? The Supreme Court also said that blacks 114 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,120 were and human beings. Why should we care what the Supreme Court says about 115 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,279 it? In fact, the States ran immigration policy for decades before the Supreme 116 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:33,320 Court got involved. That's a matter of that's not settled in my opinion, 117 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:37,279 just because the Supreme Court said so sorry, I'm I'm a big fan of 118 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,679 observing all the rules and the niceties and keeping all of the institutions and norms 119 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,879 intact. I really am, because once you stray outside that and start coloring 120 00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:50,080 outside the lines, all of a sudden everything is open game. But I'm 121 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,159 not that but is not going to delegitimize what I just said. But there 122 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,200 are people who are inclined to say, Look, it's been sticking by the 123 00:08:58,279 --> 00:09:01,799 rules and playing nice that's got us in this position in the first place. 124 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,080 Nobody said anything about the fact that these cities would declare themselves to be so 125 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,039 sure, as Charles Lawton said, and you know Squasimoto that they refused to 126 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:18,360 interface with Ice and were proud of the fact. You had the sheriff, 127 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:20,960 I believe of Aspen Colorade who ran on the fact that he was not going 128 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,240 to get along with Ice because it wasn't you know, it was an instrument 129 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:30,960 of oppression. It was a means that undercut their legitimacy in the community, 130 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,519 et cetera. So when you have a government officials saying we are not going 131 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,039 to follow the law, we are going to ignore the law, we are 132 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,879 not even going to talk to the people who are tasked by law with enforcing 133 00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:43,200 the law at all, you have people to turn around and say, well, 134 00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:46,000 you know what, they were the ones they started it. They were 135 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,279 the ones who put us down this path by refusing to cohere to legal norms. 136 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,519 And that's what that's that's the dangerous part on both sides. But you 137 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,320 know they started it. But James, no, But I think there's a 138 00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:03,799 difference here. I'm sure that there is. I'm I'm just speaking of a 139 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,960 general free floating mental idea, but go ahead and do it, and please 140 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,480 for you know, explain the idea of the difference. No, no, 141 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,960 no, because you're James. You know. The reason I'm jealous of you 142 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,759 being the host here is I listened to the podcast every week and you usually 143 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,039 are the paragon of federalism. You are usually the paragon of let Washington screw 144 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:26,360 up and let's rely on our states to solve our problem. States should be 145 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:30,320 allowed to decide whether they agree with federal policies or not, and whether they 146 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,919 want to help the federal government or not. You could have some states, 147 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,879 unfortunately, I say, like California, which is we're not a sanctuary city, 148 00:10:35,879 --> 00:10:39,960 We're a sanctuary state. As a professor at the University of California, 149 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,879 I am not allowed. I'm forbidden by state law from telling Ice or whoever 150 00:10:45,879 --> 00:10:50,200 anybody in the federal government what I know about the immigration status of any students 151 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:54,039 or employees I meet. That is totally up to California. Texas have a 152 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,559 totally different rule. They could say, our state officials are going to help 153 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:03,200 the federal government if they want more enforcement, and immigration is still the federal 154 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,000 responsibility. Only the federal government can detain people and deport them from the country. 155 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:13,399 We don't want states enforcing federal law. But then after that, let 156 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,240 the states decide whether they want to cooperate or not, and the voters can 157 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,720 hold them responsible. If people in California don't want to see aliens coming across 158 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:26,840 the border and then committing crimes, then they can change their government. But 159 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:31,679 if we want to suffer the negative effects of illegal immigration, then that's what 160 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:35,480 that's what we've chosen to do. Don't disagree with that, don't disagree with 161 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:37,879 any of that, And it doesn't contradict what I said. I agree with 162 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:41,960 you that they have the right to do this, and if people don't like 163 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,159 it, that they should use the means at their disposal given to us as 164 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,039 citizens to change it. But that doesn't mean it's right. That doesn't mean 165 00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:50,960 that just because it's legal doesn't mean it is correct. And I think that 166 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:54,399 state's deciding not so. Actually, and now we really have a disagreement because 167 00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:58,720 I actually would I don't like seeing the law violated the border to the tune 168 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,679 of three million people of the year. I think we should have much more 169 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:07,320 legal immigration. I think having one million legal immigrants a year is just stupidly 170 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,360 crazy. We have a country of three hundred and thirty million people, we 171 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,440 have a labor shortage going on. I think we should have more legal immigration 172 00:12:13,639 --> 00:12:18,120 as part of a deal control the border. Don't let people come across illegally. 173 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,000 In the three million numbers, but we should have a lot more legal 174 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,559 immigration too. We can debate the numbers, and we can debate where they 175 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,360 come from and all of that stuff. I'm not in disagree. I'm a 176 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:33,000 yes immigration both thumbs up. But the way we're doing it right now is 177 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,279 absolutely insane. Because well, somebody once said they're not sending their best anyway, 178 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,360 so that so Actually the person I should be replacing is Rob because you 179 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,159 don't have a real moderate on this podcast. Rob always says something moderate and 180 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,480 you and Peter beat up on him, and then he just gives up and 181 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:52,720 rolls into a fetal ball. I'm willing to be aggressively moderate. There's a 182 00:12:52,799 --> 00:12:56,919 problem with what you're both saying, and what you're not recognizing is why on 183 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:01,919 earth the corrupt and despicable Biden met stration would be opening the borders the way 184 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,879 they are in the first place, or sanctuary cities would be welcoming illegal immigration 185 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:11,960 beyond their virtue signaling. And of course it's the demographics, it's the replacement 186 00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:13,720 theory. I can sound you can say I'm a bigot for saying that, 187 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:18,759 But now we know that many of these cities, many of these states are 188 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:20,919 looking for ways to get these people to be able to vote. So what 189 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:31,360 happens when the entire country has a plurality of illegal immigrants who love the Democratic 190 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:35,080 Party and the money that's being dumped into them, and on and on and 191 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,279 on and on, and there's no possibility for the people who were here and 192 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,919 created the prosperity that they're sucking off of to vote them out of office. 193 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,240 What do we do? Then? That's a problem, you guys. I 194 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:50,879 don't think anybody wants to face that because it sounds like you're being a bigot. 195 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:52,960 But I don't care. I'm not a bigot. I see the damage 196 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,399 done every day by illegal immigration because I live here. My house is eight 197 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,519 miles from the border. I think that right. I think there are a 198 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,759 variety of reasons that that can be attributed to a number of people, all 199 00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:07,000 of whom are on the left and progressive and have different reasons for it. 200 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,919 Some of them are Cloward Pivet, you know, crash the system somehow, 201 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,799 just overwhelm and crash it and change it. Some of them, yes, 202 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:18,240 do like the demographic differences because it helps them stay in power or get into 203 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:22,960 power. Some of them are ideologically predisposed to say, well, what is 204 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,960 citizenship really, Let's let them all in and then could give them the better. 205 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,039 It's privileged for us to not do so, I think, but we 206 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,879 can argue about the reasons for it. You've got the Chamber of Commerce. 207 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:39,559 It says they want cheap labor. We can have that argument later. I 208 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:43,080 think the primary thing to do is to look at the problem facing us in 209 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,480 the faith. You know, we can argue the rationales later, but do 210 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,279 something first. Steven, Yeah, I mean I think the politics those are 211 00:14:52,279 --> 00:14:54,679 pretty simple on the Democratic side, because you know, Democrats used to be 212 00:14:54,759 --> 00:15:00,360 kind of hawks on immigration as recently as the Clinton years and even after that. 213 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:03,159 But then they woke up one day and they looked at California, which 214 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,240 was pretty much a red state in presidential elections and even into the last decade, 215 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:11,960 and they realized what changed California. They think it was immigration. So 216 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,200 the switch flipped and they thought, oh if we can do the rest of 217 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,159 the nation that has changed the demographics of it. That will mean we can 218 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,240 get democratic majorities everywhere and run the country. I actually get And that's what 219 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,399 makes me worried about. I normally don't get worked up about about large numbers 220 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:31,039 of illegal immigrants voting illegally. But you know, if the Democrats really why, 221 00:15:31,799 --> 00:15:35,639 Well, for a bunch of reasons, I do. Now I'm coming 222 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:37,279 to the main point, which is I do now. If Democrats really believe 223 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,480 the rhetoric, and I think they do, that Trump is this existential threat 224 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:45,000 to democracy, then why wouldn't they try and cheat on a massive scale in 225 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,960 this election? And the easiest way to do it with all these bodies that 226 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,320 you're dumping into states around the country. But there's no proof so far, 227 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:58,399 is Sir Steve, from a reliable data, that voting by illegal immigrants has 228 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,919 actually change the outcome of any national election. Is there? Well, I'm 229 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,039 not sure about a national election. I think you can point to a few 230 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,720 congressional districts in California and you know here and there, not on a wide 231 00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:12,039 scale, but in some of those close elections where they're decided by a thousand 232 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,759 votes. I think they may have tipped the balance here and there. The 233 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,480 Democrats are going to win the popular vote in this next election. So I 234 00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:22,480 find this fear that's going to be illegal aliens who are going to change the 235 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:27,080 voting. I'm not defending having aliens who are not allowed to vote to vote, 236 00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:30,360 but I was going to say, if you're going to focus our attention 237 00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:33,600 and resources on making sure the election in November is free and fair, it's 238 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:37,399 not going to be legal aliens that are going to somehow steal the election for 239 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:40,480 Biden. Biden is going to win the popular vote, it's just the electoral 240 00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:44,159 college is going to matter. Well, you know, in the current polls, 241 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,720 Trump is actually leading in the popular vote first time ever for the last 242 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,600 six eight weeks now, So don't be so sure he wouldn't win the popular 243 00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:56,639 vote in a fair election. That's the aggregate nationwide popular vote, which yeah, 244 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:00,279 which is you know a bit about that. But I'm happy to take 245 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,799 bets. It will take bets from any listener. For one micrib the mik 246 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,119 rib that Biden will win the popular vote in the mbe really wants to win. 247 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:15,599 That's just a data issue. Oh well, nobody wants to win a 248 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:22,480 McRib what are you anti American lucretia. But the left wants the popular vote 249 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,920 to be the determining fact. They want to get rid of the electoral college 250 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,079 and just have it be a popular vote, so you know, the coastal 251 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,480 states can lord it over all the rest of us and we can take it 252 00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:33,880 and we can like it. So yeah, I mean, so there are 253 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,559 all these different reasons that people have for wanting to change with the immigration policy 254 00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:41,200 that we have, as we've heard here on the podcast. And it's not 255 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,799 just limited to the South, and it's not just limited to Chicago and New 256 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,119 York and the other cities that we see in the news. In Wisconsin, 257 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,599 there's a story that just erupt just started floating up around here Wisconsin. Whitewater, 258 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,720 Wisconsin. I had to smile when I saw the name of that town. 259 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,759 Took me back to the good old days of cattle futures and all the 260 00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:04,240 rest of it. Remember remember that boy, those just times like a golden 261 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:10,480 eye. I was all that investigation. It was awesome, It certainly was 262 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,920 anyway. So Whitewater, Wisconsin has a population of fifteen thousand, rather used 263 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,240 to have a population of fifteen thousand, not as a population of sixteen thousand, 264 00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:22,119 and the thousand people who have come there in the last couple of years 265 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:27,240 are mostly illegals, and they're mostly from Venezuela and from Colombia as far as 266 00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:30,720 I take it right, and what this has done is I'm sorry Nicaragua. 267 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,559 I'm sorry. I should be an NPR host Nicoagua. So they have a 268 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:42,039 problem because all of a sudden, they have to get more English as a 269 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:48,440 second language teachers. They have to figure out how to plug the police budget 270 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,440 because there's more calls. The town has a four hundred thousand dollars budget deficit 271 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:56,279 now because the demographics have been changed. Now Holly all got to Whitewater. 272 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,480 Why they all decided to go to Whitewater, I don't know. I don't 273 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,720 know if there was a caravan or a particular thing, or if there was 274 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,680 some local organization that was saying, let us do the virtuous thing and bring 275 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,680 them to our town. Don't know. But there's no doubt that changing from 276 00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:15,640 fifteen thousand of the demographics that they had before two an extra thousand nicaragum and 277 00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:22,480 Venezuelans alters the culture of a place, does it not. And we've been 278 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:27,359 lectured. It's seemingly a nauseum about colonialism and the way that there was absolutely 279 00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:33,920 no right for the West to go into these places and insert themselves and make 280 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,920 the cultural changes that they did. Is this not some sort of reverse form 281 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,319 of that? And I think the people defending this would shrug their shoulders and 282 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,839 say, well, maybe it is, but it turned about's fair play. 283 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:51,400 It's Whitewater, Wisconsin's turn. Now this colonial thing colonial is something I don't 284 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,400 know if I'm going to talk about Gaza and people accusing israelis now colonizers, 285 00:19:55,559 --> 00:20:00,640 that's this is ridiculous. So many came from Asia. Think the best thing 286 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:06,319 that happened to Asia is that the West showed up with technology and resources and 287 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,359 theories that made the area the most prosperous it's ever been in history. I 288 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,000 think it's crazy for people to say a Western civilization has been a bad thing. 289 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,079 But an answer to this question of a large number of immigrants showing up 290 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:25,039 in certain places all at once overwhelmed closer. Isn't that the story of America? 291 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,759 This has been going on for the whole history of the country. Yes, 292 00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:33,839 you have had large numbers of have you not read Lucretia about the waves 293 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,720 of immigration in the late nineteen or early twentieth centuries into the East Coast cities. 294 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,759 I mean talk about overwhelming. You have large numbers of Irish, Italians, 295 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,240 Polish all coming into these cities at the same time. And you read 296 00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:52,680 stories from back then about people complaining about police being overwhelmed about the rise of 297 00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:57,759 organized crime. But our society has been very good at incorporating them, assimilating 298 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:03,119 them, and they'd be American. Yes, yes, I agree that that 299 00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:07,200 is the story in New York and Chicago and big cities that have the resources 300 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,599 and the capacity to take it. Yes, And I'm for that. I'm 301 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:14,200 for that, and I was, you know, and I don't want to 302 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,319 cut everybody off here, and I'm going to shut up after this, but 303 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,000 I want to tell you something that I found in a newspaper from one hundred 304 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,599 years ago, February twenty fifth, nineteen twenty four. I talked about this 305 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,759 in the diner yesterday the Los Angeles Times. They were debating a bill. 306 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:30,240 The Democrats were opposing it, a bill, the Johnson Immigration Bill, Okay, 307 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:36,400 that they said would fan the flames against the populations from other places, 308 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,880 that would cause national that would cause religious national hatreds. Here was the statement 309 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,960 read on the floor one hundred years ago, in nineteen twenty four. The 310 00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:49,119 foreign born population of our country and those born here of foreign parents the Democrats 311 00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:53,640 comprise thirty three and a third percent of the total population. Of these, 312 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,680 at least twenty five percent are recent immigrants and constitute the young men and women 313 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,640 of today's laboring classes necessary to our industrial prosperity. That was one hundred years 314 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,240 ago. They're saying that thirty three percent of the total population is foreign born 315 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:11,359 or traces themselves back to form born. So yes, that is the American 316 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,720 story, and we can support that without saying that a small town in Wisconsin 317 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:21,440 is obliged by history somehow to suddenly turn around and expend all of its money 318 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,559 and energy on a population that suddenly just arrives. Yeah. Can I add 319 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:27,960 to that, James, that I think nineteen twenty four if that bills, 320 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,440 the one you're talking about is the immigration bill that halted immigration because people thought 321 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:37,240 we've had more than we can effectively assimilate, and we need a pause, 322 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,319 and I think we need that again. And then secondly, John, those 323 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,480 older waves of immigration are different than a lot of what we're seeing now, 324 00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,440 not all of it. But they all came from coming carem Europe. They 325 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,480 came from Judeo Christian civilizations. You know the Oshconazi Jews, and you know 326 00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,599 the Iris. All the people you mentioned are essentially just like us, except 327 00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:57,680 they had to learn English and I had to learn it quickly, and they 328 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,039 did because we didn't have a welfare state that coddled them and actually corrupted them 329 00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:06,599 in a lot of ways. If we went back to that situation, well, 330 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,640 I'll just end with Milton Freeman's famous line. You can either have high 331 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,519 rates of immigration or a generous welfare state, but you can't have both. 332 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,960 And we're testing those propositions. Before John gets to that Lucretia, you had 333 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,720 something they say. I was just going to say that John's attempt to make 334 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:26,079 some sort of moral analogy between that and what we have today. Most of 335 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,559 those people did not come illegally. By definition, when you let people in 336 00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:36,839 your country who are illegal aliens, they are lawbreakers. They are lawbreakers, 337 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,400 and why would we think that they would make good citizens? And when they're 338 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,319 willing to break the very first law when they walk in the country, even 339 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,359 if they're good people. They are breaking the law. My grandparents came here, 340 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,480 they immigrated, They went to a small town with lots of other people 341 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,720 from the same place they were, and not one of them ever accepted one 342 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,160 penny from the government, probably until Social Security, I'm guessing. But they 343 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,039 also learned English. They taught their kids English. You know, it's not 344 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,480 the same thing. And immigrants used to love this country. Did you see 345 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,839 in any of the newspaper accounts or you know, online accounts of all of 346 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:25,200 the immigrants walking across with sweatshirts and t shirts on that say f you America. 347 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,880 Why would we be letting people like that in? There is no analogy 348 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,240 between what you just said and what is happening today across the board. If 349 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,880 you want to talk about legal immigration fifty years from now, okay, but 350 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:41,519 no, right now. We need to stop anybody from coming here illegally and 351 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:45,480 then figure out what we're going to do about legal immigration. I guess that's 352 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,720 what James is saying too, so I shouldn't be repetitive. But oh no, 353 00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:52,400 that's we're all here for to repeat, you to repeat me and my 354 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:57,920 infinite wisdom tower, my towering, and like John, your response before we 355 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,319 move on to the next topic. Oh, I've made my points. I 356 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,279 actually not. So it's not so clear to me that the aliens who are 357 00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:08,960 coming in, and yes, I could say they're breaking the law when they 358 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,480 come in, are acting immorlly. They're violating our laws. They feel like 359 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:18,000 they have some greater moral reason to break those laws, which may be trying 360 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,880 to come for someplace where they have political freedom or economic opportunity. I don't 361 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,119 think I mean you you so, you know, for the listeners, Steve 362 00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:32,880 and Lucretia are professional moral philosophers. I am not. I'm just a pragmatic, 363 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,640 realistic lawyer. These guys they think about Aristotle and Plato, and they 364 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,039 spend hours and hours thinking about the just and the good and the beautiful. 365 00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:45,519 I don't. I'm just trying to come up with a practical solution. It 366 00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:51,839 shows John my practical solutions shoot at the border. You don't like that, 367 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:55,960 now, this is why that is not that that's like you're morally principled thing. 368 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,960 You're like, oh, they're and invading force. Cosey boy, then 369 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,079 why can't we shoot them. I don't think that's practical. I really don't. 370 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:03,480 I think that what the practical solutions. You have to figure out how 371 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,960 to control the border and then right filter who you want to come in, 372 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:11,480 and then who you want to be citizen, And you can't just I don't 373 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,000 think it's a good answer just say well, there's so many people coming, 374 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,000 we should just shut the border entirely, which I hear you and Steve saying, 375 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,880 which I think is not possible. And then we have a totally unguarded 376 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,319 border with Canada. Why don't people just come into Canada? Come right? 377 00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:26,920 We can't shut the country now, we have trade, we have portsometry, 378 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,200 so we just it's more of a practical problem about how to control a movement 379 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,400 of people and who want to come to the country. I think, good 380 00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:38,559 right, John, this is going to be the most awesome comment threat for 381 00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:44,359 this episode. I can't wait to read it. Why very reasonable? What 382 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,200 are you talking about? Why don't they come from Canada because they have to 383 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,279 pass through North Dakota a barren expanse that terrifies the hardest of hearts. Well, 384 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:56,119 when it comes to a matter of fact, they do they do. 385 00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,839 We just had a case here of some smugglers who actually got the people that 386 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,720 were smuggling killed frozen to death because they were coming from the northern place. 387 00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,240 So yeah, they're coming from all I agree, they're coming from the north, 388 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,680 They're coming from all sides. They're coming. Lord knows how many cargo 389 00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:14,200 vessels discard this gorge a metal box that has some people in it. Yes, 390 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,759 but it seems that we can do more. So we can all agree 391 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,240 then we've solved that issue, and that we should move on speaking of legal 392 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,480 justin moral and the rest of it to Donald Trump being kicked off the ballot 393 00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:30,240 again and in this working its way up the legal system. John I, 394 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:36,440 you being, of course, are Ricochet Supreme Court correspondent. Tell me, 395 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,440 finally I'm getting a good title out of you. Well, you known that 396 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,680 for years. It's something I've applied willy and or nilly. I mean, 397 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,680 you say it in the most cynical, mocking tone. I was trying to 398 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,559 be as genuine as I possibly could. I guess my true feelings just worked 399 00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:53,519 their way outside of my theatrical performance. See I knew it. But do 400 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,640 go on? So this is not as important as the immunity issue. This 401 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,599 uh, you know, decision to kick Trump off the ballot. It's a 402 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:07,039 loser if you listen to the oral arguments, read the briefs in the Supreme 403 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:11,039 Court case. The Supreme Court is going to hold very shortly that the president 404 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:17,319 cannot be disqualified. And then this case, this like all the other blue 405 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,160 state secretary's of States who thought they had some power to remove Trump from the 406 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,279 battle, that's just going to be over and done with. The much more 407 00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:26,559 serious thing is, you know, what's going on with Trump and the criminal 408 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:30,240 cases and the immunity case at the court just granted. But I think this 409 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:34,759 effort to disqualify him that was you know, uh and never Trump or pipe 410 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,720 dream. It had it was interesting, but it didn't have a chance at 411 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,640 this Supreme Court. And I think this Illinois judge will be quickly overturned. 412 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160 The community case you mentioned expY it, you know, to Dell pep a 413 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,240 little bit more about that. Well, that's actually really interesting. And this 414 00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:55,440 is actually one where I thought initially this long you know, hail Mary pass 415 00:28:55,519 --> 00:29:00,200 effort, but Trump is going to work. It's so the issue was is 416 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:06,960 the president immune from criminal prosecution after he's left office? Prosecution by the federal 417 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,000 government states is another issue. So this is you know, this centrally involves 418 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,920 a January sixth prosecution by the Special Council Jack Smith, and the other prosecution 419 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,119 for mishandling classified documents that's going on in Florida. So President Trump has lost 420 00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:26,319 at the trial court. He's lost on this at the d C Circuit, 421 00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:29,519 which is the most powerful appeals court, which is in Washington, d C. 422 00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:34,000 I think he's raised and arguments he's ultimately going to lose that a he 423 00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:38,799 has immunity and can only be tried for things which he was impeached and convicted 424 00:29:40,079 --> 00:29:45,680 for by the House and the Senate and so. But tactically he's really succeeded. 425 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,119 I mean, the courts have helped him here. Because the Supreme Court 426 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,960 has scheduled the oral arguments for the last week of April, the decision won't 427 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,759 come out till July fourth, around the July fourth weekend, which means I 428 00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:00,079 think it's really hard to get a trial and a verdict in time for the 429 00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:06,240 November elections. But at the same time, the trial will be going on 430 00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:10,960 during the election season, which might give Trump alney of opportunities to appear on 431 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,000 the front of the courthouse in Washington. Scene he's being railroaded by the Biden 432 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,400 administration. I have a question for John about the Colorado or where the Illinois 433 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:26,640 judge and the timeline about that. The Colorado case is also going to be 434 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,240 decided by the court sometime we're here in April. Is that or you don't 435 00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,440 know? Oh no, the oral arguments already, Kurt, So we're just 436 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:38,279 waiting for this. It could be any day. Now, buye to the 437 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,240 Illinois case where the judge. By the way, so this I have to 438 00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:47,839 do this. The Illinois judge who removed Trump from the ballot is so damn 439 00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:51,799 illiterate she should be shot on principles what I told Stephen John, because this 440 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,079 was her sentence just for the throw in with the illegal aliens and start firing 441 00:30:56,359 --> 00:31:03,920 exactly. Court shares the Colorado Supreme Court sentiments that did not reach its conclusion 442 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:11,640 lightly. Somebody explained to me what that means, because that's a judge writing 443 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,119 and that came from the actual anyway, Sorry, will that be if the 444 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:21,240 court rules in the Colorado case that they can't kick Trump off the ballot, 445 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:26,039 that will automatically cover this because she said she was delaying her decision. I 446 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:30,480 believe until today to give chance Trump a chance to appeal but he doesn't need 447 00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,920 to write if yeah, I fire for him, Yeah I fire him. 448 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,480 I wouldn't even bother because if the Supreme Court says, as I expect it 449 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:45,000 will, that states have no ability to choose who to disqualify or not based 450 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:48,680 on whether they participate in insurrection. That's up to the federal government to do 451 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,519 it. Then every state officially tried to do this, their action is just 452 00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:56,880 automatically blocked. Thank you. Yeah. But the the other case that you 453 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:02,640 referenced, John is the immunity. And look, I mean this is tricky 454 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:08,480 because I actually think there's a good, again abstract principal ground for broad immunity 455 00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:13,240 for presidential acts. The difficulty is, you know, Trump is out on 456 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:15,759 the margin of things and presents the court a big problem. I kind of 457 00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,759 worry that what we're going to get is something like we got out of the 458 00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:22,440 Bush v. Gore case in two thousand, right. You know, the 459 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,920 Court had to intervene in that case because things we were getting out of canned 460 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,759 and what they had a sentence in Bush versus Gore that said something to the 461 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,920 fact of, well, yeah, we're deciding this case, but we really 462 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,720 don't think it should be a precedent for anything like this ever, again, 463 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,960 which has always raised tackles. I've got a feeling in the court it's going 464 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:44,279 to look at this and wrestle with it seriously and then probably side against Trump 465 00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:46,200 because it's just on the edge, and they don't want to go so far 466 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,680 as to say it's complete immunity for any possible action, including shooting someone on 467 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,359 Fifth Avenue. In that famous phrase, why would you say he's on the 468 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,880 margins to begin with, Steve, what on the margins did Trump actually? 469 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,319 Oh? Oh, I agree with that that, I mean, so one 470 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:08,000 more level of deep then, so Trump was not actually being charged with insurrection 471 00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:13,400 by Jack Smith. One of the I'm not sure it's a formal count, 472 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,319 but one of the arguments they're making is that he knew he lost the election 473 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,240 and he was acting in bad faith. That seems to be a subjective judgment, 474 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,160 because Trump's argument is, no, I was doing all this in defense 475 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,759 of the constitution, because a fraudulent election subverts our constitution. That seems to 476 00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:30,400 me a pretty strong argument. If they weren't charging him with the crime of 477 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:36,319 insurrection or some other formal crime, or actually shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue then 478 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:40,160 I think I don't think I would stretch the immunity umbrella that far. But 479 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,640 that's a pretty weird circumstance. And I just paused there because between three of 480 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:51,640 these efforts intellectuals, I thought somebody was going to jump in, probably John. 481 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:58,119 But yes, I'm ready to be effervescent. Okay. So so I 482 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:04,119 don't think Trump immunity. I do think he has good claims when he's actually 483 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,280 tried to resist these criminal charges. Immunity means like you just can't prosecute Trump 484 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,559 for anything he did as president. I don't think that's consistent with what the 485 00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:16,400 Founders thought. I think it's a terrible idea that we now have what I 486 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,480 hope does not become a permanent practice of presidents prosecuting their predecessors, because I 487 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,320 think that does lead us on the road to Nicaragua. But I think that 488 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,119 the Founders said, I think pretty clearly that presidents after they leave office can 489 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:36,239 be prosecuted. You look at their discussion of impeachment and they basically say, 490 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,719 look, impeachment is for removing presidents who do bad things. Compeach, it's 491 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,559 not criminal. We're not actually trying and convicting and throwing anybody in jail for 492 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:49,119 impeachment, and then the founders would say, Hamilton would say, because you 493 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,920 can do that to them after they leave office, they can always be prosecuted 494 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,239 after they leave office. So I think one but the second thing is immunity 495 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,119 is just whether you can prosecute him doesn't mean that Jack Smith's going to win. 496 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,719 I agree with part of what Steve said. These prosecutions, these charges 497 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,039 for defrauding the US, which you would use for a defense contractor, or 498 00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:14,599 obstecting Congress, which you would actually that's what you would use for Hunter Biden. 499 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:17,440 You know, people who don't obey congressional subpoenas. Those crimes, those 500 00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:22,800 charges don't really fit what Trump did. They should have charged Trump with insurrection. 501 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:28,280 Jack Smith chose not to do that. He went out and don't. 502 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,119 I think Trump could actually make a very good claim once the trial starts that 503 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,119 he actually should be a quick that actually the charges should be dismissed because they 504 00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:38,639 don't apply to what actually happened on January sixth. But that's immunity. Trump 505 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:43,480 has gone too far with the immunity claim. He actually may end up harming 506 00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:46,679 the presidency in some way if the Supreme Court ends up issuing a case that 507 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,719 really narrows what presidents can and can't be sued for. James, I don't 508 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,440 want to belabor this. I just want to say that John slipped in that 509 00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:00,519 I think he should have been charged with insurrection, which is the most idiotic 510 00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:04,679 thing John has said in a long time. But let let's just go on 511 00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,880 and not take that one up. Thank you for pointing that out, which 512 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:15,320 I'm sure was hard for you to do. Lucretia, that is also the 513 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,159 shortest thing Lucretius said in response to one of my stupid things in a long 514 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:24,400 time too, that from the border to the national events, to across the 515 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,920 ocean to Israel. I mentioned before that there was of course, people are 516 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,639 always angry about colonization and the history thereof The latest thing we've heard is that 517 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,480 Israel is a manifestation, if not the nip Ultra, the epitome of colonization, 518 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,320 in that there's never been any Jews there before, but all of a 519 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,639 sudden forty eight a whole bunch showed up and kicked everybody out, and it's 520 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,519 illegal and genocide is going on. I've been hearing this my entire life, 521 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,320 it flares to the surface whenever there's an intefada or a second intefada, or 522 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,519 something happens, or this or that or the other. Now we have an 523 00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:02,280 event in Gaza which hit our mind, newspaper all the wires yesterday, framing 524 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,559 it as Israeli troops firing into a crowd and killing one hundreds of people, 525 00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:12,400 and to which one might say, I wonder if there's another take on that. 526 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,239 I wonder if this is another bombed hospital. I wonder if when they 527 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,920 say witnesses say, or health authorities say, if there's going to be a 528 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,719 little asterisk, that say, oh, and by the way, the health 529 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,119 authorities are the mosque another one there was not, And I tracked the headline 530 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:31,079 throughout the day as it got massaged and changed. As it sounds now, 531 00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:39,199 I think the thing is hundreds die in food riot as Israeli's fire or something 532 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,519 like that. The primary purpose is to let you know that the IDF fired 533 00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:46,599 a whole bunch of bullets during this food distribution and a lot of people died, 534 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,159 and that's basically their fault, and it's their fault anyway, because they 535 00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:52,800 invaded Gaza. Well, it's their fault anyway. Because they're there in the 536 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,519 first place, and the end, the Gosens are hungry, and the Gossens 537 00:37:55,559 --> 00:38:00,559 are hungry, which is the IDF's faulted because they should have done what in 538 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:05,199 response to October seventh. I'm not exactly sure. I guess they're supposed to 539 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,119 do this and no more and leave everything in place so it could happen again. 540 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,960 There was a joke I heard the other day that I'll probably end the 541 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,559 podcast with. It's a pretty grim one, but right now, I just 542 00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:19,239 want to hear what you guys have been hearing about this as the story evolves, 543 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,440 and it's like nobody ever learns that the first story out that comes the 544 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:31,800 first instance of these stories, the first iteration always being genocidal Israeli's pointlessly use 545 00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:37,960 overkill to kill a whole lot of people for apparently no reason other than bloodlust, 546 00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:42,920 is the first take, and after about three or four iterations of that, 547 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,159 it seems to come back to something where, oh, oh, that 548 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:51,199 didn't happen at all. I disagree with one thing you said, James, 549 00:38:51,800 --> 00:39:00,320 and that's nobody ever learns to even to speculate that that was not exactly the 550 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,920 intention. From the very beginning, knowing that, you know, the pro 551 00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:10,679 Palestinians that Rashid t leave in her ilk will automatically jump on this and use 552 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:16,519 it as propaganda throughout their communities. And I know you know that. I 553 00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:20,880 just it was just the way you said it. That's the whole point, 554 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,119 of course, is the IDEF is not responsible for a riot that killed hundreds 555 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:29,679 of people who were going after food. They had nothing to do with it. 556 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,119 And everything they're doing is legitimate in terms of fighting a real enemy. 557 00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:39,039 And this nonsense about colonialism, as you put it, it's as if Jews 558 00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:43,360 have not been there for what three thousand years at least that we know of, 559 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:50,480 and that Palestinians didn't even exist in practically since my lifetime. It's all. 560 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,440 It's such nonsense, and it's so frustrating that you can't seem to get 561 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,360 to any truth on the matter. But it's because I think the whole thing 562 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,039 is it designed to be propaganda. Well, when I said hold on, 563 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,039 I just one thing. When I say nobody learns, I mean nobody in 564 00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:10,199 the media seems to learn and to think and stop and question the sources. 565 00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:14,440 Because it's curious to me that you have a new generation of people in journalism 566 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,159 who believe that objective reporting is wrong. You can't be objective. First of 567 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:22,960 all, the individual can never be, but the institutions of journalism should not 568 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,960 be objective because that gives both sidism to evil. That if you say there's 569 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,480 another side to climate change or another side to Trump policies, then you are 570 00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:38,000 equivocating with evil, and there is no other side. But there's always another 571 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:44,039 side, it seems to them when it comes to reporting on Israel. That's 572 00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:46,119 the point of which the objectivity that, well, we're just being objective here. 573 00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:50,079 We're reporting what Hamas says, and report what Israel says. We're being 574 00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,760 objective. Steven, You're going to say, well, I was going to 575 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,960 say Hamas is very skilled at creating provocations that sometimes draw Israeli fire, but 576 00:40:59,079 --> 00:41:01,960 most often I think the Hamas people are doing the shooting themselves, because they're 577 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,440 that cynical and evil. Right, And the media falls forward, and you 578 00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:09,639 know, what's the old saying is that, you know, truth, falsehood 579 00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:14,119 flies around the world before the truth he has put its shoes on, and 580 00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:16,079 I think we see that here. There was another video that you might have 581 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:20,320 seen a week or so ago, James, that was shows that every once 582 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,119 in a while they screw this up and it doesn't work. And I don't 583 00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:28,199 think it was contrived, but it was a video of some Gosden marching his 584 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,960 look like five year old boy to for an Israeli tank and he's yelling at 585 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,880 them, you know, shoot shoot. I mean he was begging his Ralies 586 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,039 to shoot his kid. That's the way it came across. And instead the 587 00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:40,440 Israeli soldiers walked up and gave the kid a candy bar, so they didn't 588 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,519 get their propaganda moment out of it. But encouraging diabetes tooth decay, yeah 589 00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:55,079 right, God say I think that. Well we also should underscore I think 590 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,239 and this is he would not get this if you're found in the US media 591 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,960 or even with the BI administration is saying but unfortunately, civilians die in war, 592 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,760 and I actually think the Israelis are going well beyond what almost any other 593 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:13,119 nation other than US would do to protect civilians and fighting this war where they're 594 00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:17,320 warning people, trying to get civilians to leave the areas of fighting. Compare 595 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,400 that to Hamas right. They are using the fact that we believe in Western 596 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,840 civilization against us. They're not trying to defend their civilian population. They're trying 597 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,440 to put them out as human shields. They want Israel to kill as many 598 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:36,559 of their own civilian population as possible. So right, so Steve said, 599 00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:38,760 you know, Hamas is really good at propaganda. What they're really bad at 600 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,400 is actually fighting a real war. What they're really good at is throwing civilians 601 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,159 as cannon fodder in front of Israeli bombs and guns, because that's their real 602 00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:51,920 strategy, and so the only way to get through it. So you can't 603 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,599 let them succeed at it. I mean, this is the to get into 604 00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:59,719 the integrated laws of war. You're not allowed right to put civilians in front 605 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,400 of you, You're not allowed to shoot from civilian buildings, and under the 606 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,840 laws of war, those are the people who are responsible for any war crimes, 607 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,159 not you when you have to shoot against them, because otherwise you're going 608 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:15,280 to encourage. If Hamas succeeds, you're going to see twice as many civilians 609 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,559 next time. Piled on top of right, some more civilians sent out. 610 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,639 In the progressive intellectual cosmology, the palest Indians will always have them a higro 611 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,000 as we used to call it back in the eighties. The moral high ground, 612 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,360 and since they are the victims, and they are the oppressed, and 613 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,559 they are the colonized, than any response, any means necessary, is justified. 614 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,599 That's all there is to it. Anyway, Appreciate you, James, 615 00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:43,639 I have a question for you and for the other posts. We know how 616 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:50,360 incredibly far the IDF in Israel in general is willing to go to protect civilians, 617 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,119 to follow the laws of war, to do all of the things that 618 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:59,639 will try and win them some kind of credibility on the international stage, and 619 00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:05,239 it's always seems to be an abject failure for the most part. And I'm 620 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,239 wondering, if I'm Israel, how much longer do I even bother? How 621 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:15,320 much longer do I bother to worry about civilian casualties that are brought about by 622 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:21,239 hamas, by policies or actions specifically taken by a Hamas. I wonder that, 623 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,320 you know, it's sort of a little bit like my arguing about how 624 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,280 much longer Republicans are going to try to do the right thing. I'll leave 625 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:31,599 that aside, but in the face of fighting evil at some point, since 626 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:37,719 the international community will not force hamas to follow the rules of war, as 627 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:43,360 John was pointing out how much longer should we expect Israel to do that and 628 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,119 what would be the consequences if they stopped. I think there are two ways 629 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:51,280 to look at that. One when it comes to sort of the close up 630 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,159 fighting that they've been doing, I think that they will continue to adhere to 631 00:44:54,159 --> 00:45:00,159 the laws of war because to do otherwise would be never mind the rest to 632 00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:01,320 the world. They know the rest of the world's opinion is going to be 633 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:07,199 what it is. It would need some leftist in France waving his finger at 634 00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:08,639 them. I think it's a matter of self conception. I think they have 635 00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,960 a self conception of themselves as a decent society that is not going to stoop 636 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,880 at the levels. And while it would be easier to drop a daisy cutter 637 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,079 or a mob but you know, every ten feet in Gaza, job done 638 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,480 over pressure, working in the tunnels, dust off your hands and go home. 639 00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:25,800 It's not their self conception themselves, and I think a sense of national 640 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,039 shame would attend. I may be completely naive about that. On the other 641 00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:34,679 hand, I don't think that when it came to using a nuclear weapon to 642 00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:38,079 respond to taking out of Tel Aviv, when the Iranians get one and one 643 00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:44,480 over. I don't think that they would say, no, we really can't 644 00:45:44,559 --> 00:45:47,079 hit Tehran. It's just not in US. I think those are two different 645 00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:51,639 situations, and in the first, I think that they will continue to stick 646 00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:57,280 by the rules of war. In the second situation, the temple columns get 647 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,639 pulled down. Yeah, I mean I think, right, I think that 648 00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:05,440 an eye for an eye, right, that would be the situation with a 649 00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,320 nuclear exchange with Dran. But Lucretia, I don't think that they need to 650 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,519 go scorts to Earth. I mean, I think they can conduct their operations 651 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,159 within the laws of war. And I think that also public comports with Jewish 652 00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:19,920 teaching. But I'm no expert. What I think is but equally interesting a 653 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,719 parallel question is I think Israel has decided we're not going to listen to Biden 654 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,559 and the Europeans. We're going to finish the job on our own terms. 655 00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:30,000 And I mean that is quite significant because if you go back to George W. 656 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:32,880 Bush, and I know it was a minor war compared to this, 657 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,159 but when Israel went into Lebanon two thousand and five, I forget the year 658 00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:43,719 to fight back against Hesbula Apparently George Bush, very pro Israel, told them 659 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,719 that really you have to wrap this up in thirty days beyond that, and 660 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,960 you know, we know Ronald Reagan held back Israel in nineteen eighty two in 661 00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:53,400 Lebanon, and then of course, you know, we regretted that the sequel 662 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,519 to that, of course, but everything that I understand, and the Wall 663 00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:00,159 Street Journal had a great story about how a recent funk between Biden and Net 664 00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:05,920 and Yahoo ended with Biden either yell agant Net and Yahoo or a cloud, 665 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,719 I'm not sure, but he hung up the phone angry. Is the report 666 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,719 that's going passed along, So I think Israel's decided and they're united by That's 667 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,119 the other thing you hear is that the Israelis are overwhelmingly united on finishing the 668 00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:20,960 war completely on their own terms, and the rest of us can just lump 669 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,039 it, except that they rely on us for I mean, this is what's 670 00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:28,880 really going on. Hamasa's propaganda is really just aimt at the Biden administration to 671 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,719 cut off funding and material to Israel. I mean, Israel can't succeed in 672 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:38,599 the end unless we help them. They they need us for money, fuel, 673 00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:44,760 weapons. I mean, the right thing is if Israel does want to 674 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,199 finish the job and we cut them off, I think net Nyah who will 675 00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:52,079 still continue the offensive, It'll just be without precision guided missiles and high level 676 00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:59,000 intelligence, will be much worse for the Palestinian population in Gaza. One more 677 00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:01,719 question for you guys. Sorry about this, James, but I'm actually curious 678 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,239 because that's what the question. Who's the host here? I want to know 679 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,000 we're all trying out for your job, John, who wants to be those 680 00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:12,880 now? Lucretia is asking you question? You give us five hours to just 681 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,760 talk about these things. I wouldn't have to do it on the podcast. 682 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,920 But I have a question and it's a serious one and it's about Michigan. 683 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:27,159 So if if the Biden administration is worried about the electoral consequences of it support 684 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,480 lukewarm as it is for Israel in places like Michigan where there is a strong 685 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,639 I don't know, Muslim vote whatever it is, Uh, what does that 686 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,760 actually mean for the larger political electoral landscape. I mean, they're obviously not 687 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,599 going to vote for Trump. Will they just stay home? How does that 688 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,199 work? Where? I don't know? They may you see a story they 689 00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,000 may they may hold their nose. I means, as the party goes more 690 00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:55,719 and more to the progressive side of things, you may have people who put 691 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,159 more pressure on And as John is liked, isn't you know, like to 692 00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:01,800 remind us at the beginning, the show us the means of the ballot change 693 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:08,480 national policy. I don't know why Joe Biden is particularly as pro Israel as 694 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,199 he is. I don't think the man has a thought out position in his 695 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,000 head. I think he's an empty windsock, and it's been so the duration 696 00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:16,519 of his career, and that we're seeing now as sort of a remnant, 697 00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:22,639 you know, a twitching instinctive support of Israel and realizing it's probably a good 698 00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,199 thing. But as the party moves left, you don't have to be for 699 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:31,079 Michigan to have the progressive animus against Israel for being a colonialist Western state. 700 00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:36,719 Now, the good thing is we're not talking about the day is when the 701 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,639 squad is descended. The good thing is I think these ideas are on the 702 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,079 wayane. It's not as though they've been unchallenged in the intellectual marketplace lately, 703 00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:49,559 and it's not as though they haven't been ridiculed, And it's not as though 704 00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:53,039 the moderate sides I think of the Democratic Party is starting to look at the 705 00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:55,559 people that got in bed with and say I don't like this. I don't 706 00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:00,760 like this at all. So whether or not that sensible population rises to the 707 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,960 four or just ages out and dies, I can't tell you. That's all 708 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,079 I can say in my own confused and rambling away because I'm wrapping that up 709 00:50:08,119 --> 00:50:12,639 and moving along to something else before we end the conversation entirely because this one's 710 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,679 fun, I think I may get something out of you. You've all been 711 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:20,159 sitting back their milk toast, not putting yourself on the line. I mean, 712 00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:23,199 this is probably the only podcast where we've had two, count them, 713 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:30,599 two suggestions of shooting people, and I'm hoping for and looking, well, 714 00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:32,360 you know, this is your chance for a third year, unless John would 715 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,599 like to find somebody to shoot here or Steven. It has to do with 716 00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,199 a clip from MSNBC. And I can pronounce the last woman's name, Heidi, 717 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:45,079 Prisibila, Prisibyla. I'm not making fun of it. It's just one 718 00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,079 of those names that's all consonants. Except for the end. She made the 719 00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:52,320 following claim quote the thing that unites them as Christian nationalists, not Christians, 720 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,599 by the way, because Christian nationalists is very different. She said, is 721 00:50:55,599 --> 00:51:00,960 that they believe our rights as Americans, as all human beings, don't come 722 00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:06,000 from any earthly authority. They don't come from Congress, they don't come from 723 00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:12,199 the Supreme Court. They come from God, is what she said. She 724 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,960 came to this astonishing revelation that there are people out there who believe there is 725 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:22,880 a higher authority than the state. Now, my head's just full of bees 726 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,880 when I hear something like this. And you know, the thing is, 727 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:30,039 I think it's entirely possible to be agnostic and to not be one of those 728 00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:34,880 people who believe that. However you conceive of a deity handed down the tablets 729 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,199 or whatnot, you don't have to believe that to believe that there actually is 730 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:43,159 a higher authority than that constituted in the halls of Washington, d C. 731 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,840 That our innate rights of human beings are granted to us by our existence as 732 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:52,880 human beings and such. So what do you guys think of this quurse? 733 00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:58,239 This is a big notion abroad in the land. I can't even take that 734 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,639 one seriously, but I will answer in a serious way, which is to 735 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:07,760 say, the genius of the American regime, the American experiment, the American 736 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:13,559 Constitutional Republic, is that it was capable of making what you just said, 737 00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:19,000 James, that our rights actually don't come from us, from our own self, 738 00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:25,639 self willing, from Congress, from Washington. They are beyond human beings 739 00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:30,880 in some way. You know. The Declaration says nature and Nature's God, 740 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:37,320 and the fact that those rights exist because of our human nature is accessible to 741 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:43,039 us through human reason. Obviously, this I'll just say Heidi. Heidi has 742 00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:47,320 no capacity for reasons, so she doesn't see this. But I just want 743 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:52,320 to I just shout out to the American Constitutional Republic as it, at least 744 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,480 once was. That's what made it the greatest country in the history of the 745 00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,679 world, is our recognition that our rights belong to us as human beings and 746 00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,960 were not given to us by government. They were given to us by something 747 00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:08,440 greater than ourselves. You know, James, You're probably wise to wait till 748 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,039 the very end to pose this question, because the three of us have actually 749 00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:15,159 taught a law school seminar largely on this question, and have guest speakers about 750 00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:20,400 the whole religious liberty of business. I'll just say this briefly. You know 751 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,119 who else is a Christian nationalist if that's your definition. Well, Joe Biden 752 00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:27,320 once upon a time said, when he was yelling at Robert Borock by the 753 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,639 way, thirty some years ago, that he believes our rights don't come from 754 00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:34,679 government, they come from God. Bill Clinton said that I can think of 755 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,000 things. Franklin Roosevelt said that would get him run out of the faculty club 756 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:43,559 at any liberal university in America today if Democrats said them today. So this 757 00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:47,639 just shows appalling historical ignorance as well as a sort of a general what's the 758 00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:53,079 phrase crushing morosity on offer these days from places like MSNBC. Joe Biden said 759 00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:59,280 that when he had less hair, where's it fewer? Here? John? 760 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,280 Will go, you got one whiskey related question to go. But I want 761 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,960 your take on this law guy? Can you can you tell me in the 762 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,599 thirty seven seconds exactly some it all up for it? Well? Remember when 763 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,840 Justice Catangi Brown Jackson, Macretia's favorite justice on the Supreme Court, was right 764 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:22,360 up in her confirmation hearings, and basically I think Ted Cruz asked her, 765 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,280 do you believe in natural rights, and she said she refused to answer the 766 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:30,639 question if for a call, and so basically denied the Declaration of Independence, 767 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:37,320 which was the foundation for abolitionism and the foundation for Lincoln's view of why the 768 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,639 Civil War had to be fought to free the slaves. But in this seminar, 769 00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:44,599 and I don't want to bore people with what we argue about in the 770 00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:47,039 seminar, but you probably aren't surprised to learn that Steve and Lucretia pile on 771 00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:52,119 me and attack me, because the only amendment I would make to what they've 772 00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:55,280 said is and I think, actually, James, what you said is actually 773 00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,039 closer to my view maybe, which is I'm not sure whether you have to 774 00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:02,079 be a Christian to believe this, or even believe in a God. I 775 00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:07,239 think that you could be an atheist and still believe that each you know, 776 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,639 man and woman and whatever other sex is we're going to be creating in the 777 00:55:10,639 --> 00:55:16,039 future. Just throw that in Asia, but what every man, woman and 778 00:55:16,119 --> 00:55:21,480 child is equal in some fundamental way, and so they therefore start out in 779 00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:25,239 life with equal rights, and that we created the American government unlike Asian governments 780 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,840 in European governments. We created American governments to protect the rights. And so 781 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,800 that's why we want to we start out by limiting government, not thinking, 782 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,760 oh, the government gave us this, so we're so lucky, and so 783 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,880 the government can do everything. So I think that in the seminar, this 784 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,360 is really the question we fight over. Is is it the rights dependent on 785 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,400 religion? Are they given to you by God? Or can you I'm a 786 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,559 big fan of Hobbes, you know, does this just something rational? Equal 787 00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:53,199 human beings create when they leave the state of nature. I've always thought the 788 00:55:53,199 --> 00:55:55,639 say nature would be fun, but if we have to leave it, we 789 00:55:55,719 --> 00:56:00,880 leave it and enter society. That's how we may are right. So does 790 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,199 it's not dependent on Christianity in anywhere? Even being religious? What I said, 791 00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:08,840 right? So, I mean I learned this back in high school in 792 00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:15,039 North Dakota. It wasn't hard, but somehow over the last twenty thirty forty 793 00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:17,880 years we've transmuted this idea into something completely different, where the idea of being 794 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:23,400 born equal. Somehow it means that we all have equal capacities, and therefore 795 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:29,400 we have to have mechanisms by the state to ensure equitable outcomes and etcetera, 796 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:34,480 etcetera. Etcetera. Getting back to this very basic concept seems fundamental for preserving 797 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,199 the Union as we know it. And to see an MSNBC commentator say something 798 00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:43,119 stupid like that, and I just thought, my last thing is her view 799 00:56:43,199 --> 00:56:45,920 is not at all a minority view effect. I think her view represents what 800 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:52,119 most professors think, most professionals, a lot of college graduates, all those 801 00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:54,960 elites. I think they agree with her and disagree with you. Why John, 802 00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,920 you said it, but you didn't, you didn't really carry on. 803 00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:07,400 And that is because what a recognition of equal human rights, natural rights that 804 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:12,760 came to us from nature or from Nature's God. That means that not only 805 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,000 do we create government to secure those rights. But you said it, there's 806 00:57:15,039 --> 00:57:22,119 a limitation on government. What progressives do not want is anything that would limit 807 00:57:22,199 --> 00:57:28,960 their ability to use government to create whatever kind of society at the moment they 808 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:34,840 think is appropriate. And that's why you have to deny that rights come from 809 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:39,320 anywhere other than from the regime and power at the time, because otherwise it 810 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,559 limits them, It limits what is just, It limits all of those kinds 811 00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:47,639 of things. And that's the reason I think what you say is very true. 812 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:53,039 Everyone in who's an elite in power these days believes that rights are what 813 00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:57,840 we decide to give the American people. We end with this, since you 814 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,519 guys do the three whisks. I'm sorry, I said, God, oh 815 00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:06,840 I'm misgendered. And now now you're on the list. You are on the 816 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,480 list. Well to the recipient be the group of us who are on the 817 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:15,559 receiving end of lucretia. Since you three individuals or does that sort of is 818 00:58:15,559 --> 00:58:19,519 that wrong because you're more of a collective. Does that you've subsumed your individuality 819 00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,760 into a collective? Guys? Okay, all right then, guys, since 820 00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:27,119 you are the three whiskey happy hour, We're going to go out where each 821 00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,679 of you is going to name one whiskey for people perhaps to sample and sip 822 00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:37,000 whilst do they listen to your brilliance, John, I've become a big fan 823 00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:40,920 of American bourbons. And even though bourbon is best made in the South, 824 00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:45,400 my two colleagues here now that I'm a big fan of whistle Pig, which 825 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:49,719 has made somehow a bourbon made somehow in New England. It's good. It 826 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,039 is good. I like whistle Pig. Lacretia Lafroy Lafoy tan is my favorite 827 00:58:53,079 --> 00:58:57,159 go to whiskey, and Lucretia hates it. So there's another one. It's 828 00:58:57,239 --> 00:59:00,400 it's a It's a bit pity, isn't it. Yeah. I'm more of 829 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,039 a spade guy myself a bit, and I think it's like licking an ash 830 00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:08,880 tray. James. I, on the other hand, prefer a single malt 831 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:15,239 Scotch old enough to vote. Really, I'm pretty open about whether it's a 832 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,480 McCallen or a Glenn Livitt or something like that. But yes, and none 833 00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:23,400 of that stuff that smells like somebody put their cigarette butt out in the bottle 834 00:59:24,159 --> 00:59:28,719 or added a tincture of lyesol. No, I'm with you. I'm more 835 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,280 on that side myself a little. So, James, what's your favorite? 836 00:59:30,519 --> 00:59:34,679 James? You've never said that on your podcast. What is your favorite? 837 00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,280 J John It's almost as if I was responding to her comment and then segueing 838 00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,599 to my own choice in my own way. But thank you for reminding me 839 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:45,239 that I'm going to be a great. Most guys going to be great. 840 00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:49,400 I was just going to say that McCallan twelve is nice. I mean, 841 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,800 the eighteen could be considered a little bit too much of what it is in 842 00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:59,920 the twelve understates itself nicely, so it can't vote, at least not yet. 843 01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:01,920 I give them a couple of years. So what James is trying to 844 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:07,639 say is mccallun twelve was available at Costco's near you. McAllen eighteenth too expensive. 845 01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:12,000 I have a fine, full panoply of whiskeys which I will be consulting 846 01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:14,639 tonight, and I always start with the best and then work my way down 847 01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:16,159 to the you know, to the stuff that takes the varnish off the floor, 848 01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:20,079 because by the time you get to that, who cares. I like 849 01:00:20,159 --> 01:00:24,159 to experiment every week. I tried something the other day called Paddleford, which 850 01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:29,039 was the mash bill was high corn, and so I liked that, and 851 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,719 it was it was good. But I got to tell you what I've really 852 01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:35,800 become fond of lately is something called monkey shoulder. And that's ah, yes, 853 01:00:36,039 --> 01:00:39,239 I've had that. I hate all things related to monkeys. I just 854 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:45,639 don't like monkeys at all. I can't stand them because I remember Jonah Goldberg 855 01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:50,079 on a cruise accused you of being a monkey. Ohay, accuse me of 856 01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:52,239 being many things? Yes right, oh, yes, yes he did. 857 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,880 He accused me and then you pulled the best You did the funniest thing I've 858 01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:02,039 ever seen in my life, which is you pretended to you'urine I did. 859 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,480 That was that is like the funniest thing I've ever seen at all. It 860 01:01:06,519 --> 01:01:08,159 was a glorious moment. It really was, because he didn't know I was 861 01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:10,840 in the audience and we were doing we had the largest cruise shy at the 862 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:15,239 Oasis of the Sea and we were in the back of the skating rink because 863 01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:17,119 of the ship of course, of course has a skating rink with seats around 864 01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:20,280 it, and that's where we were having the night Owl. And he was 865 01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,599 doing night Owl with a couple other guys, with Rob I think possibly, 866 01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:29,119 and he was discussing something and he Robert Reich came into it. He's making 867 01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:31,679 a short joke and he made some remark about how Robert Reich had to stand 868 01:01:31,719 --> 01:01:37,760 on a soapbox in order to use the urinal and he said, like Lilac's 869 01:01:37,119 --> 01:01:40,920 I think is what he said. Somebody has the tape of this. Well. 870 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,440 I was up in the stands with Michael Walsh at the point here and 871 01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:49,239 I heard that and everyone laughed at that point, and I'm of the opinion 872 01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:52,079 that you ought never to make a joke of somebody else's physical appearance, unless, 873 01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:54,280 of course, everybody knows you're the dearest of friends, and you do 874 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,920 it back and forth and it's part of your part of your bantern, part 875 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,760 of your bit, which I thought people could assume this was the case here, 876 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:05,880 but I could not resist. I marched down the stairs, I walked 877 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,760 across the stage, at which point there's a little thrill in a rill is 878 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:12,719 people wonder exactly what's going to happen. And with my back to the audience, 879 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,840 I mimic getting up on that soap box in front of Jonah and mimic 880 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:22,760 the actions of hiking down one's fly and doing and then shaking and zipping up 881 01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,000 and walking off without a word. It was so awesome. He was so 882 01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:30,320 humiliated. It was beautiful. He was so humiliated. Everyone laughed and was 883 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,280 on your side. It was great. I've always wondered if you never forget, 884 01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:36,320 never forgave me for that at all. And I haven't the faintest idea 885 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,760 anyway. It's so monkey Shoulder, and I'll be very brief about it. 886 01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:44,119 Monkey Shoulder was so named because the guys who had to stir the mall to 887 01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:47,159 pair in the mash would develop one big shoulder that was larger than the others, 888 01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:50,239 and they called that the monkey shoulders. So if you can imagine, 889 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,039 these guys were walking around a big drape and arm. And one of the 890 01:02:52,079 --> 01:02:54,960 reasons that I like it is it's a blend made by Grants, which is 891 01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,800 my favorite go to Barbour whiskey. I love It's a nice sweet blend and 892 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:06,320 this is their nu ultra of their blends monkey shoulder. So there you have 893 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,000 it. You have Lfroud. If you want something that does indeed taste like 894 01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:14,960 somebody shoved to peep down the back of your throat, you've got your McCallum 895 01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:19,400 eighteen, which is an absolutely fantastic and expensive and shows you exactly how high 896 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,840 maintenance Lucretia is. And then like lucretia also class C and works in every 897 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,920 environment right. And then of course you remember John and said that he likes 898 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,920 the the the Evan Williams six months old. So there you go, folks. 899 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,320 That goes with the McRib. It goes with the McRib, goes with 900 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:39,679 the McRib. Those are your intellectual instructions for the week. Your geopolitical insights 901 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:44,239 your constitutional If you like this, well, then you're gonna love the rest 902 01:03:44,239 --> 01:03:46,480 of the three Whiskey podcasts as well. I assume that Peter and Robb will 903 01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,239 be back. I almost hope now, because this has been great. Gentlemen, 904 01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,199 ladies, guys, thank you for joining this the Ricochet podcast and you 905 01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,559 listening. If you like it, go to Ricochet and sign up and join 906 01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:01,039 if you will, and take advantage of all the other great podcasts in the 907 01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:05,360 Ricochet Audio Network. Happy March. We'll see you later, guys. Thanks 908 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:14,639 James, Thanks bye bye Ricochet. Yeah, join the Conversation