WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:45.079 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, 2 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:53.000 Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Oldfeller. Willis old who old 3 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.759 fella? And now I feel bad about saying that. You know, oh 4 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:02.439 that reminds me because someone had accused me of teasing you and making fun of 5 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:06.439 you and stuff like that. And I say old the lytric because you were 6 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:08.959 just talking about antiques and stuff like that, which was is a lot of 7 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.200 fun. I love that topic. And then I said this, and I 8 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.519 was like, oh, no, that person's going to think I'm being mean 9 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:22.319 to Martin again. No, actually I take that remark well, because I 10 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.280 do. I am a lover of antiques, which is kind of a Antiques 11 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.879 and UFOs don't really mix. But unless you're in a way I want to 12 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.239 try to engine aliens, I don't know, well, even nineteen forty seven 13 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:40.599 when all those you know, the government was looking into UFOs, that was 14 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:45.359 way before my time. So that's that's kind of antique ish to me. 15 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:52.599 It is fun anyway, having fun here in New Hampshire, getting ready for 16 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:57.079 an estate sale, so finding some real goodies, having a good time. 17 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.959 That's awesome. That's fun. And I should say, and I'm going to 18 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:07.280 take this opportunity to say that I certainly do not intend to disparage or make 19 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:10.599 fun of you at all, Martin. In fact, just the fact that 20 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.800 I have you on my show demonstrates that that very very very high level of 21 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.719 respect. I'm having fun, and I hope nobody feels like, you know, 22 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:27.199 I'm making fun of Martin or making them look badly. I'm certainly not 23 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:32.800 trying to, because I think the world of Martin Willis, And you know, 24 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:38.879 it's great to take the chance to say I think Martin Willis is super 25 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.680 duper awesome. And I really love talking UFOs with you, so it's a 26 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:49.599 pleasure to talk with you every week. So wow, I hope you never 27 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.039 have felt that I've made fun of you. I haven't meant to. No, 28 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.960 Yeah, no, all in good fun. And you know, I'm 29 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.000 speechless. That's very really And the awkward pauses and stuff that's fun, that's 30 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.280 charming. That's not a bad thing in my eyes. I don't feel it 31 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:10.400 as a bad thing. Yeah, on my own show, I was known 32 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:16.599 to do awkward well you know what about it takes a certain knackt it does, 33 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:23.240 and it's fun. These days. Yeah, So moving on, let's 34 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.919 see, Well, let me tell him about my guests. Oh, this 35 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.439 is an exciting show. People, you're gonna love this. My guest is 36 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:37.719 retired colonel doctor John Alexander. And some people may be going, oh, 37 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:42.680 man, that's a disinformation dude, man what But you know what is funny 38 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.520 and what we're going to be talking about is also exciting a topic that people 39 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:52.960 love, which is a skinwalker ranch. Oh, that's this ranch in Utah. 40 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:58.039 You know that was purchased by Robert Bigelow, who's a real estate mogul 41 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:03.080 out of Las Vegas who now is running Bigelow Aerospace and actually has a component 42 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:11.520 on the International Space Station. He's also very much a UFO enthusiast into the 43 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:16.720 topic. He's funded a lot of UFO investigations and paranormal type of investigations, 44 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:23.519 including investigating this strange ranch in Utah, which is a favorite topic of many 45 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.399 people. And John Alexander, who's been friends with mister Bigelow for a very 46 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:33.560 long time. We'll talk about how that friendship started in this interview was on 47 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:38.199 the ranch and part of that whole investigation. So we'll talk to John about 48 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.319 that. In fact, I have an interview on YouTube with him about the 49 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.600 ranch. It's one of our most viewed YouTube videos, and so I thought 50 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:47.480 that would be a lot of fun because there's been some stories about the ranch 51 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.360 in the news lately, and I thought it'd be fun to talk to John 52 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:56.800 about it. Right, and it's sold, right, it did sell. 53 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.680 Yeah, that's what those stories were. And funny enough, John even realize 54 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.839 that. But it has sold, so Bigelow does not own it anymore. 55 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:09.160 And these stories essentially were about people trying to get on the ranch and everything, 56 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:13.360 and these people are harassed by people. So I think they this story 57 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:18.199 headlines said something like paranormal turns into prosecutable because they're really getting upset at these 58 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:24.839 people trying to come onto their land and look for UFOs and weirdness. Yeah. 59 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.439 Yeah, I can see that that happening. And no trespassing is no 60 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:34.319 trespassing exactly. They can throw the lot at them for sure. Yeah, 61 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:41.920 they actually there are. I think they have to be breaking into home to 62 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:46.279 shoot well, I don't know, in different states. Yeah, yeah, 63 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:51.000 you're right. But John is also speaking at the UFO Congress, and that's 64 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:56.279 what's funny. People call him a disinformation is because he's he was in the 65 00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:00.920 army and in Army intelligence and he looked into UFOs and paranormal phenomena while he 66 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.000 was in there, and because he feels that the government doesn't have much in 67 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:11.800 the way of secrets, at least any organized sort of investigation. That people 68 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:15.720 think he's a disinformation person, But he's into a lot of different stuff, 69 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:20.240 as we'll find out in this interview and on his lecture at the UFO Congress 70 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:25.120 where he's going to talk about his own sighting and the other paranormal phenomena that 71 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:30.199 he feels are related to his sighting and this field, which I think is 72 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.920 going to be fascinating. So it's great, and you know what, to 73 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:39.160 his in his defense, all of these conspiracies people have, there's really no 74 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:43.519 proof to point to any of it. There's conjecture, there's a few, 75 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:49.199 there are some witnesses and you know stories. I think that we've got a 76 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:53.720 really good series going right now, and I'm really excited about our next UFO 77 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.040 magazine, Open Mind's UFO Magazine, we're going to be putting on YouTube because 78 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:03.360 we're delving into the files of where are these UFO investigations going? And I 79 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:09.879 think that's fascinating. There's some evidence in proof. But have you ever had 80 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:14.680 him on your show? I have, yes, and I really I just 81 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:17.560 remember it being a really good show, and I didn't I thought I was 82 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:25.959 going to get some flack about the disinformation aspect of our conversation that could be 83 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:31.639 construed someone could say it was but I didn't get the bad feedback like I 84 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:39.920 expected. Actually, so he's intelligent, very interesting man. Yeah, yeah, 85 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:43.959 a very unique insight and so I just I really love talking to the 86 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.079 guy, especially about Skinwalker. This topic is a lot of fun. So 87 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:50.959 I think you're going to really love this. But before we do that, 88 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:56.120 how about we get into some UFO news. I got a doozy today, 89 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:01.800 but you start us off, I will this and I'm sure hope we didn't 90 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.120 do this last week, but if we did, it wasn't posted on your 91 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:11.040 site yet. This is about a strange luminous UFO caught on security camera in 92 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:20.240 England. The story was written by Alejandro Rulehols and it talks about this odd 93 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.360 luminous orb and I agree, I would consider it that it had to do 94 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.080 with a camera that was like a security type camera and it was also motion 95 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.960 triggered. They think their cat Alpha might have triggered it. Actually, this 96 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.440 was this happened while they were gone, so it's about I think it's like 97 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.960 forty two seconds long or something like that. And what you do see is 98 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:52.480 you see this orb go through the rooftops or you know, by the rooftops, 99 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.159 and then it changes direction comes back. Now I know from having one 100 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.320 of these IP cameras myself that you and with a motion sensor you can get 101 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.960 some weird images from insects and things like that, but this certainly is no 102 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:13.039 insect and when it changes direction, it comes back it really that was the 103 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:18.159 part that was Wow. That was an amazing video and I strongly suggested the 104 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.840 listener check that video out. It's right on open Mind's TV under one of 105 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:28.120 the links called security camera. Something strang caught on security camera. Yeah, 106 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:33.559 strange luminous ufo caught on security camera in England. And yeah, this one 107 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.480 was weird. I think I mentioned it a bit on the last one, 108 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.480 but I hadn't written the story, so there was more information such as I 109 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:46.240 misspoke. It wasn't the cat, they said. I love this quote too, 110 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.159 They said it couldn't have been our cat Alfie as he was in the 111 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:56.159 cattery while we were on holiday. I guess I miss that. Yeah, 112 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.759 well that's because I agree. They have catteries over there. Yeah, that's 113 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:05.639 kind of a category. But they have doggeries too. I don't know. 114 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:07.639 It would be puppery. I would, oh, that would be good at 115 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:16.919 puppery for little puppies. That'd be cuter puppery. But what's great is now 116 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.039 I have. I also have which I didn't have is the investigation. So 117 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:26.759 John Turnbull was the investigator. He's the move On National director for Great Britain, 118 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:35.720 and he closed it as insufficient data. Although I think that I don't 119 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.399 know. I think you could argue unknown might have been good because he's essentially 120 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.799 said that he interviewed the people. He looked at the video. He said, 121 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.200 there's clearly a bright white object that appears to be under some sort of 122 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.440 control, and it comes back, changes direction and has sort of a trail 123 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:58.720 that it's leaving, so he can't classify it as conventional and since he is 124 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.960 un able to elucidate any further, he said, he closed it as an 125 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:11.399 insufficient data. So that is interesting. People have commented since, and some 126 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.039 people have commented that the object is so far away it's hard to tell if 127 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.759 it was a drone or not. And I suppose, I agree, if 128 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.879 there's anything it could be. It could possibly be some sort of quad copter 129 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.840 or something. But it is clearly behind the houses and then comes around in 130 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.039 front of them, which is pretty odd, a very odd video, I 131 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:39.879 think. Mm hmm, yeah, I don't know. It seems it doesn't 132 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.120 seem drone like to me, but that may be just my you know, 133 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:48.840 it's only one like, yeah, so I would agree with you. I 134 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:54.799 didn't get that feeling at first, but I suppose it's possible. Hm hmm, 135 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.480 that's right. So yeah, that's a good one. Good one, 136 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.559 dude, good one, all right, yeah, all right? Yeah five, 137 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:09.399 this is another good one. So I'm really excited about this one. 138 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:15.360 I pounded this out and did you know, was rushing to get this out. 139 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.399 Uh, this story and this is the wiki leaks. So if anybody 140 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:24.919 saw the debate this weekend, they were talking about some New Week WikiLeaks email 141 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.840 they were well, they weren't so shocking. One headline I read, which 142 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:37.879 was really funny, is that, uh that that the emails showed that Hillary 143 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.720 was boring or something. Because these were a lot of democratic, more democratic 144 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:48.159 emails that were posted, including emails from Podesta John Podesta. Now you and 145 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.879 I of course have talked about Podesta quite a bit because he is Hillary's campaign 146 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:58.320 manager. He used to work for Obama as an advisor. He was Obama's 147 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:03.200 transition manager when Obama took over the White House, you know, eight years 148 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:09.960 ago now, and so very prominent figure. He was also the chief of 149 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.799 staff for the Clintons, and he is very into UFOs, has been for 150 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.960 a long time, even during this campaign. He's kind of challenged people for 151 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.360 a while to ask Hillary about UFOs, and he talked about UFOs and some 152 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.879 of his tweets. He's a he's a tweeter. But his emails got hacked, 153 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.759 and now we know, we do know. I'm at least the law 154 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:37.519 enforcement is, you know, finally made it official that yes, it was 155 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:45.519 Russia who has been doing these hacking of the Democratic Party's emails, and so 156 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:50.919 they did release some of his emails, again mostly boring, and but there 157 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:58.559 are a suite of emails to him regarding UFOs. Most of these are pretty 158 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:03.000 boring, you know, just people either UFO references in the news, like 159 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.919 there's a reference to a missile test that you know, people mistook where UFO 160 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:15.440 meant thing about Kusinich, but also some guy talking about terrorism and some other 161 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.000 things. One guy this was kind of sad who was kind of getting he 162 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:26.480 was upset about German immigration. He stated Germany's immigration disaster deniers have as much 163 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:33.120 credibility as alien abduct These spirited away in a UFO with Bigfoot at the controls. 164 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.840 So that was one of the funny comments. There's kind of an odd 165 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:41.440 one. Of course, some people believe this. I think it's kind of 166 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:46.080 odd. Personally. There's some guy who's writing, Hey, Podesta and he 167 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:48.960 c C McCain and some other people, and he's like, you gotta tell 168 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.919 Hillary she's got the climate change thing all wrong. Oh yeah, I saw 169 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.879 that. You saw this. It's actually Nibaru or planet X, which comes 170 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.200 around every thirty six hundred years or so, and it's gravity is pulling on 171 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.840 our planet. We can't see it now because it's in the Sun's glare. 172 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.000 So I guess if the astronomers would just kind of cover their eyes from the 173 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.039 Sun's glare, they'd be, oh, look, there it is, So 174 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.039 maybe that would help. But that was kind of a funny one, but 175 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.399 one that is being made a big deal about, which is much less of 176 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.080 a big deal than people think. Is this one from edgar Mitchell. And 177 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:35.279 this is kind of funny because this demonstrates how the UK tabloids are so terrible 178 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.039 at reporting news. They're awful and they get it. They over sensationalize and 179 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:46.559 are just completely misleading and inaccurate. Their headline is revealed Hillary Clinton had secret 180 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:54.279 meetings with NASA astronaut to discuss aliens. Completely absolutely false. So and I 181 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.320 have links to the actual emails so you can look at them. What had 182 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:07.639 happened was there is an email to John Podesta requesting a meeting with edgar Mitchell. 183 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.960 Now it makes it look like the email is from edgar Mitchell. However, 184 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:17.679 if you look at the email address and you follow that, you find 185 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:22.840 that it's actually from a woman named Terry Mansfield. And she's somewhat I mean, 186 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.720 some of you might have heard of her. She's a UFO researcher. 187 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:33.840 Her website says that they educate humans about work with our nonviolent, obedient to 188 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.679 God extraterrestrial intelligence from contiguous Universe, whose mission is to work with our scientists 189 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.600 to bring zero point energy here for the purpose of extending life on our fragile 190 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:51.639 earth, so little fringe, you know, she's kind of and she says 191 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:56.799 they only fundraise with billionaires, so yeah, which is kind of interesting. 192 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:02.320 Anyway, that's who the email came from, either her or her colleague. 193 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:07.119 She works with, Suzanne, and so the email is requesting a meeting to 194 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.920 talk about zero point energy with edgar Mitchell. Now, the question was did 195 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.599 edgar Mitchell know they sent this email. He probably did. He's into this 196 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.720 kind of stuff, They're the type of people he hung out with, so 197 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:25.160 he probably did. But did Podesta reply. That's something we did not know. 198 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.319 And so that's why it was ridiculous that they assumed that there was some 199 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.160 sort of meeting, because it doesn't look like Podesta replied at all. And 200 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:45.559 interesting enough, Grant Cameroon, who you had on your show recently, he 201 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.440 actually did some research this morning and we've been talking on Facebook and he got 202 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.880 a hold of Terry Mansfield and they said, yeah, edgar Mitchell did ask 203 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.680 us to send the email, but we never got a reply and there was 204 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.559 no meeting, So no meeting actually happened. Wow. Oh, and I 205 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:08.359 know I guess they did talk with Badesta's aid a little bit, and so 206 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.880 there was a little bit of conversation, but a meeting never happened. Yes, 207 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.960 go ahead, Sorry, Oh that's all right. I was just wondering 208 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.880 whatever possessed you to call him Grant Cameroon. Ah, I'm glad you asked. 209 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.400 Now. I'm just joking around because Martin, of course you had him 210 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:30.880 on your show recently and you commented about how he calls me a la gendre. 211 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.119 That's right, I've had you know, I've been doing the show now 212 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.079 for years, or it used to be UFO Think Tank, but now it's 213 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:44.039 Open Mind GUFO Radio. And if you can go back even when I did 214 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:48.480 my first show with him, which is probably two thousand, at least seven 215 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.920 eight years ago, you can go listen, and he calls me a le 216 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:57.279 jandre. And even at that point, I had already known him for many, 217 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:02.519 many years and been in pretty close contact. I mean, sometimes we 218 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:07.160 talk more than others, but he's always called me that, and I kind 219 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.680 of laugh and I kind of tell him to say that that's kind of maybe 220 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:15.240 because he's Canadian and it's kind of French Canadian because it's ale Jandreau. Almost 221 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.519 sounds like a little French kind of flair there. Yeah, so it's just 222 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.799 very gracious of you. Yes, but I do know his name is Cameron 223 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.559 and not camera roon. Yes, was just being silly, silly there. 224 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.519 So there's not a whole lot to that one. I mean, Edgar Mitchell 225 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.480 wanted to meet with John Podesta, No big surprise. We all think that 226 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:38.279 would be cool. But here's what's cool. And the Washington and the Wall 227 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:44.680 Street Journal actually wrote about these. By the way, I should mention Shephard 228 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.680 Johnson did the research to find those other files for us at open mind So 229 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:53.400 thank you to Shepherd. But the Wall Street Journal did his story about some 230 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:59.240 of the other ones that are actually much more interesting. And these are from 231 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:04.119 Tom de Law. So Tom DeLong is a rock star. You know, 232 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:11.559 he was with Link two and you know, actually Jason and Maureen when they 233 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:15.799 were with Open Minds interviewed Tom DeLong and we've got that at open Minds. 234 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.799 But he's super into UFOs. A lot of people a few months ago made 235 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.920 a big deal because he was making a lot of claims about knowing all these 236 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:29.359 people and all this, you know, deep throat contacts who know about UFOs, 237 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:36.480 and he released in July of twenty fifteen a photo of him interviewing Podesta, 238 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.119 which many of us, like myself, Lispiegel others who have been dying 239 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:48.400 to interview John Podesta about UFOs were extremely jealous and thinking why Tom DeLong, 240 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.000 Why is he talking to Tom DeLong? But right we have yet to see 241 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.839 this interview. Tom DeLong says it's going to be part of a documentary he's 242 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:02.359 going to release, so we know he you to talk with Podesta. And 243 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.799 in these wiki leaks are a couple emails from Tom DeLong. One of them 244 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:11.680 is kind of an update about what's going on. It's a few months after 245 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.799 the interview in October. Tom DeLong is saying, here's the update. I've 246 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.960 been talking with Spielberg's people and some others about what we're gonna do. I'm 247 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.839 getting my books and stuff out, and then he says, I would like 248 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:29.480 to meet with you and bring two very important people that essentially have some insight 249 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.960 into UFOs. Doesn't look like Poedessa ever replied to this email. But the 250 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:41.880 more interesting email is from January twenty fifth of this year, and the subject 251 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:49.240 is General McCaslin and Tom DeLong writes he mentioned he's a skeptic. He's not. 252 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.039 I've been working with him for four months. I just got done giving 253 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:59.519 him a four hour presentation on the entire project a few weeks ago. Trust 254 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.240 me, the device has already been happening on how to do all of this. 255 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.720 He just has to say that out loud. But he is very, 256 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.759 very aware, as he was in charge of all that stuff. When Roswell 257 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.319 crashed, they shipped it to the laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. 258 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:19.359 General McCaslin was in charge of that exact laboratory up to a couple years ago. 259 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.559 He not only knows what I'm trying to achieve, he helped assemble my 260 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:32.519 advisory team. He's a very important man. So this General mccaslyn is Major 261 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:37.519 General William mccaslan, and he was the commander of the US Air Force's research 262 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:44.559 laboratories at Right Patterson Air Force Base. In fact, there's the Air Force 263 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.759 site doesn't say he was, It says he is. So maybe he was 264 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.400 in charge of it up until recently and they haven't updated it. But yeah, 265 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.079 he is actually a very important person. Right Patterson, of course, 266 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.839 is where Project Blue book was and all of the Air Force UFO investigations, 267 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.200 and people do feel, you know, maybe they took the raswell craft there. 268 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:14.240 So if this general McCaslin does have something more to say about UFOs that 269 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:19.319 he has not told the public, that is actually very very interesting. So 270 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:26.000 hopefully, you know, it could be that Tom did not want that name 271 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.440 to get out and the name of his contact to get out. I'm sure 272 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.359 somebody's hopefully going to be asking McCaslin what he had to say, and maybe 273 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.400 he'll have a comment, especially since the Wall Street Journal wrote about this. 274 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:45.079 But that seems to be the most promising or most interesting of all the wiki 275 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:52.200 leaks out there regarding UFOs. But from what I can gather, these are 276 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.640 all of the UFO related WikiLeaks that came out recently, and that last one 277 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:02.079 pretty interesting, huh, I'll say, yeah, that's great. Well, 278 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:07.240 that would be really something. It's funny it's someone like Tom DeLong, because 279 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:12.200 of his fame, may actually get some traction and get somewhere. Yeah, 280 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.440 I mean, according to him, you know, he's told a lot of 281 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:19.599 stories. He hasn't produced much to back up his stories, but he says, 282 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:22.480 you know, when he got into this. It was some people who 283 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.720 worked at Area fifty one that went to him because he's famous, and that's 284 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:33.640 what really got him connected with some of his great contacts with some I guess, 285 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.279 really good information. So yeah, you're right, it could be that 286 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:44.119 he really does have some really great stuff. But so far, all he's 287 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.400 released a book that's nonfiction that he says is based on some of the real 288 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.079 stuff, but we don't know what's really or not so pretty. No, 289 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.000 it is fiction. It is fiction. Yeah, it is fiction. H 290 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.720 right, right, Oh did I say nonfiction? Yeah, it's fiction based 291 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.200 on on fiction, according to him. So yeah, that I think is 292 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.920 an interesting email. I like the last one. Yeah awesome. You probably 293 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:15.039 like the Nibaru one, right, Yeah, that one really cracked me up. 294 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.880 Alrighty, So you got anything else, but I think I'm just about 295 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.720 done. All right, Well, thank you for taking the time out because 296 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:32.599 I know you're really busy today with your antiquing, but thanks for taking the 297 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.200 time to talk to some UFO news with us, buddy. Yeah, always 298 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:41.480 a pleasure. Okay, Well, let's go ahead and talk to retired Colonel 299 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.480 doctor John Alexander. I am very happy to have back on the show. 300 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:52.680 John Alexander. Hello, sir, I'll great to talk to you again. 301 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.640 Yeah, it's always fun and interesting to talk to you. Of course, 302 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:02.039 there's always a little bit of controversy, even you know, you'll be speaking 303 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.839 at the UFO Congress coming up, because you're known, as you know, 304 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:11.119 by some although practically everybody who's been in the military, people believe that there 305 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:18.839 there's part of some kind of disinformation scandal. Well we're getting a greater dose 306 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.119 of that with the current election cycle as well. Yeah, you know, 307 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:32.319 truth no longer matters. Yeah, Unfortunately, conspiracy theories kind of reign supreme, 308 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:40.640 especially the most dubious of them. But you know, although it kind 309 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.039 of it seems like a bit of one of the reasons people feel that way 310 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:49.799 is because you don't feel there's is there's so much a conspiracy of of you 311 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:56.119 know, hidden secrecy as much of a conspiracy of kind of ineptitude or just 312 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:02.200 inability to deal with UFOs and things like that. But it seems like you 313 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.680 kind of relish it a bit, you kind of like setting the record straight 314 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.079 to people. Great, you know, as you know, first line in 315 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.359 my book is UFOs are real, right, And what I'm going to be 316 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:22.240 talking about the upcoming conference is just the complexity that we have brought into and 317 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:27.200 trying to investigate these phenomena. And when you say you, oh, I'm 318 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.759 super excited about your talk because you're also going to be talking about one of 319 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:37.400 your recent experiences. And is this your first UFO sighting or just kind of 320 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:44.799 most spectacular. I'm not sure either, but it is the most recent. 321 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:52.359 I wrote in the book I had one, but very very minor as most 322 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:57.640 UFO sightings go. The significance of this is the proximity to the individual who 323 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.680 was there telling me, let's yeah, I think something might happen, and 324 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.000 there we are. So yeah, this had to be your talk, got 325 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:14.119 to be really exciting. I'm very excited about it. But today I want 326 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:19.480 to talk about the Skinwalker Ranch because you got to be participate in the research 327 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:27.440 of this mysterious ranch, because you're of your friendship with Bob Bigelow and participation 328 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:34.160 in his National Institute for Discovery Sciences. I guess to start off with this, 329 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:41.720 when did you first meet Bob Bigelow? Oh, that's that goes back 330 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:48.400 into antiquity. There was a conference some may remember, and the m I 331 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:56.400 t that John mac and the guy from m I t you were holding he 332 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:03.319 showed up there that was more like a handshake. And then it was a 333 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:11.960 few years later, I'm trying to think it, probably eighty nine and missed 334 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:18.119 in the eighty eight time frame, and I was hosting a small meeting at 335 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.359 my house, talk of people, some would be familiar to the community, 336 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:29.279 others not, but interested in in front of energy and the zero point energy 337 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:34.279 in particular, and Bob out of the blue just called me and said, 338 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:40.559 what are you doing. I've heard about you, and so then he flew 339 00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:45.279 over and we had a conversation. And about that time I left Los Alamos 340 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:51.759 National Lab and then went over to work for NIDS. When it gets to 341 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:57.039 the skin Walker, I was actually the first person from NDS to spend the 342 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:02.519 night there, and I was there the day that he actually bought the ranch. 343 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.759 So when did you first hear about the ranch then? And what did 344 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:18.000 you hear? Well, just some very generic rumors that there was a place 345 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:26.240 in Utah where very strange kind of things happened, and that the rancher like 346 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.839 Kerry is pretty well known now, but basically wanted to get out it was 347 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:37.400 harassing his family so badly and they were taking a lot of heat from the 348 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:45.759 local community. They were not Mormon and that area really you know, yeah, 349 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:52.160 they do discriminate, but they say a family was having a lot of 350 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.680 trouble. Well, they had had a recent incident. Most of these, 351 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.279 by the way, they are written up, and I'd some in my book 352 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:07.359 and UFOs. But Skinwalker Ranch by George Knapp and call him Keller her. 353 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:15.359 But this is one in which he had some young boys out there and dogs, 354 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:22.839 as most ranchers do, and these dogs kept jumping up and snapping at 355 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.400 these blue balls that were, you know, floating in the air around there. 356 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:32.839 What happened was I did it, and the balls kept floating away, 357 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:38.799 and the dogs follow them, snapping and at and totally disappeared, the three 358 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:47.680 dogs, and then it never came home. And then the following day Terry 359 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:52.000 went out looking because it was very unusual that the dogs wouldn't return to get 360 00:31:52.039 --> 00:32:00.000 fed if nothing else, and he found three puddles of look like fat on 361 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:05.960 the ground, and he believed that that was the remnants of the dog. 362 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:14.039 And they were very concerned that his kids might you know, encounter the same 363 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:21.039 thing trying to tease or follow balls and took them to be potentially quite dangerous. 364 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.039 Now, were was anything left when you got to the site then? 365 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:32.519 Were you able to see these these any you know, not from that particular 366 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.559 incident, but there are so many incidents and as you know, a number 367 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:44.440 that happened when our investigators were there. I would say, uh, be 368 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:50.680 honest, I was up at the ranch a number of times after that, 369 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:57.039 and frankly personally had not seen any particular incident, but there were people and 370 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.960 someonell know, Eric, who seemed to be ultra sensitive and a lot of 371 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:09.039 things happened around him. So not only do you have a geographic area that 372 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:15.680 has you know, a huge number of incidents that are just totally unexplainable, 373 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:24.440 but there does seem to be a certain personality dependence as well influence on the 374 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:32.680 area what happens when. So you probably were since you were the first there. 375 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:39.640 I'm assuming you got to interview the family. Oh yeah, we knew 376 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:45.079 them quite well, and as you know, NIDS had a science advisory board 377 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:54.680 that was highly respectable and they came in and you know, we're very gracious 378 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:01.319 and very open about the events that were going on there and totally did not 379 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:07.880 you know, no understanding of how these things could happen. It did indicate 380 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:13.519 that it did not originate with them. The strange things have been going on 381 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:20.840 there, and Bob had talked to the Native American tribes in the area and 382 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.880 this was sort of known as a place that they did not want to go 383 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:32.320 to, that bad things could happen there. So did you advise then, 384 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:39.639 did you recommend that Bob Bigelow purchased the land and do for their studies? 385 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:47.880 Well, no, that was his decision. That's where he makes decisions anyway. 386 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:55.840 But I thought that maybe we could, you know, since incidents happened 387 00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:02.480 at such a continuous rate, that offered the possibility of being you know, 388 00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:12.840 basically a field laboratory. Now the uh you know, NIBS was designed to 389 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:21.519 look at two specific errors UFOs A long continuation of consciousness beyond bodily death was 390 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:29.079 the other. So this fit in quite well and with the charter and the 391 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:35.280 things that Bob was interested in at that time, and so we you know, 392 00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:37.360 picked it up. You had a willnkin noledge. One of the things 393 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.960 I want to emphasize though, this was, in fact, I think continues 394 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:47.119 to be a working ranch. But it also has to do with this raising 395 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.239 cattle. So a lot of people like to say, oh, you know, 396 00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:54.599 wasted. I think the was around a quarter of a million dollars on 397 00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:01.559 it. Now you're you're picking up a working ranch that continues to have value. 398 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:09.480 So did you find the family convincing yourself? Oh, they were very 399 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:15.159 open and very convincing. And of course the thing beyond that was the number 400 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:22.920 of incidents that happened with our observers and others on site. So we're not 401 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:31.800 strictly relying on, you know, personal stories by an individual, many many 402 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:40.960 stories and large number of witnesses, physical evidence that pretty pretty hard to deny 403 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:50.400 and pretty hard to explain under any set of circumstances. When Bob purchased a 404 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.440 ranch, I would imagine, and you can let me know whether I'm right 405 00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:57.960 or not, there might have been Was there any hesitation? Was there kind 406 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.320 of like, wow, he bought this. What if we're going to put 407 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:06.480 all these resources into it? What if nothing happened at the beginning? Were 408 00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:13.599 people a little nervous that way? Oh? Not that I'm aware of things 409 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.639 now. Having said that, on one of the things about the ranch, 410 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:24.119 and I think why they really gave up the you know, continuous observation was 411 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:30.280 that there was a bit cyclical, if you will. In other words, 412 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:37.239 there would be periods of intense activity and then other periods where virtually nothing would 413 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:42.880 happen. So and the other thing, you know, one of the remember 414 00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:50.559 in my book, I wrote about what I call precognitive sentient phenomena, and 415 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:57.440 it actually came from our observation at the ranch. And I guess colloquially a 416 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:04.760 lot of folklore revolves around trickster in other words, that there's phenomena that happened, 417 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:09.239 but there's something behind it that seems to have you know, a tricking 418 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:19.000 kind of attributes to it. And this shows up throughout literature, you know, 419 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:25.000 for centuries. But the reason I was looking at it is, as 420 00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:30.679 you know, we instrumented. The ranch had various kinds of sensors. We 421 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:36.480 had video and doing you know, monitoring twenty four to seven, reviewing everything 422 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:44.679 that happens, and the phenomena had it seemed like the ability to function just 423 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:51.559 outside of wherever the sensors were, meaning that is the way again precognitive. 424 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:55.039 It seemed to know whatever it was and it was in charge, if you 425 00:38:55.119 --> 00:39:00.400 will, but it knew what we were going to do when we were presented 426 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:07.079 with various phenomena, and every time we said we would adjust to it and 427 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:09.920 say, okay, let's study that. And every time he did, it 428 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.719 would shift slightly like it was saying, oh you like that, try this, 429 00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:22.360 you know, and you get something totally unexpected, often for instance, 430 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.719 like just off camera or something of that nature. Can you remember an incident 431 00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:35.079 that was kind of an example of this, Well, there was a classic 432 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:40.039 one written in the book. In one in which we had four poles, 433 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.800 as I said, we had set up surveillance, and what happened you had 434 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:52.679 video cameras on top of twenty foot poles, all looking to the west, 435 00:39:53.400 --> 00:40:00.079 and in this case, the poles further to the east could see the poles 436 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:06.920 to the west. And what happened was that, okay, so in order 437 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:09.920 to install the cameras, you had wires that were you know, coming from 438 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:15.800 the camera down to the ground. You had probably half a roll of duct 439 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.039 shape on each of the poles, just holding the wires in. As you 440 00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:27.400 got close to the ground, you had PBC piping and U clamps that held 441 00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:31.320 the wires down and then they went underground because they're working ranch. You still 442 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:40.400 had cattle running around there. And this ran back to a house, the 443 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:45.840 housing where we stayed, and so you had time laps on the second, 444 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:51.920 the third between each frame, but again running twenty four to seven. And 445 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:58.960 this phenomenal incident that happens. We know that all of a sudden, camera 446 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:01.880 i'll just call it camera one, the one further to the west stops recording 447 00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:09.360 and the camera to the east behind it does not record anything. Now, 448 00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:15.400 not only did the camera stop recording, the wires at the top of the 449 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:22.000 twenty foot pole were pulled loose. There was a chunk about three foot of 450 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:30.719 wire in between that were missing. And then the PBC that held the U 451 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:38.000 clamps that held the PBC pipe had been pulled loose. And so we went 452 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:44.760 in and looked at the camera that was staring at the camera where the incident 453 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:52.239 had taken place, and coincidentally, the cattle had been milling around the pole 454 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:59.840 at that time. Importantly, absolutely nothing showed up. And what we knew 455 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:05.599 the reason the cattle location was important. We knew that anybody approached the cattle 456 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.840 or anything came in there, they would always scatter. In this case, 457 00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:16.079 they hadn't. And we know from the time that the wires were pulled loose, 458 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:22.360 when the recording stops and we knew where to look, Absolutely nothing of 459 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.760 any of the things that we described show up on the camera that was facing 460 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:32.559 it and should have recorded the entire incident. So, I mean, what 461 00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:37.079 are your thoughts on that? So, I mean, you did have video 462 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:43.480 footage of the pool, you just couldn't see the wires although nothing happened, 463 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.360 that's the point. I mean, we should have been able to see if 464 00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:53.320 somebody climbed up the pole and we had again twenty feet or so and pull 465 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:58.360 jerked it loose. You should have seen whatever went up there. You should 466 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:05.159 have seen whatever cut this uh you know, yard long chunk of wire out 467 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:09.119 of the middle. You should have seen something pull the U clamps on the 468 00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:15.519 PBC lose. Again, not only did we not see that, we also 469 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:21.480 did not see the cattle move. And they certainly if if anybody had done 470 00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:27.280 it, you know, or any normal thing had done that, they would 471 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:35.840 have scattered it didn't. Yeah, so pretty strange stuff. Now, what 472 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:42.119 do you remember, you know, when did once the investigation began nid's investigation, 473 00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:51.119 did strange stories then start coming very quickly? Did they begin experiential. 474 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.920 I mean, we had had strange stories. Again to pick up the ramps, 475 00:43:54.960 --> 00:44:00.159 they go back in our incidents exactly. So the investigators did they begin 476 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:06.760 experiencing things. Well, one of the things I want to emphasize, you 477 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:13.440 know, I had a go around with the Jesse Ventura and in his conspiracy 478 00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:17.559 shory show that he did about Skinwalker Ranch, and he asked me could I 479 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.840 get him on the ranch? And I said no. And the other thing 480 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:29.079 was, by the way, you'd be quite bored. My point here is 481 00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:36.880 that yes, a lot of very phenomenal incidents happened, but when you amortize 482 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:42.760 that over six years, it is not like, oh, something happens every 483 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:47.519 night. I understand that the people if they are still being harassed with the 484 00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:54.719 folks trying to sneak in and whatnot, So it wasn't happening on a continuous 485 00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:01.480 basis. The ones that did happen were very very dramatic and you know, 486 00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:09.079 literally unexplainable. But it's not like you said, out there and every hour 487 00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:16.800 some unusual thing or UFO pops in, or lights appear or various kind of 488 00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:22.760 apparitions or what I call creepy collars. So all of those things happened, 489 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:30.599 but again you spread that over the six years that the observations that are observations 490 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:35.400 alone. Some of the incidents had happened to Terry and his family before, 491 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:44.639 and some of the stories even predate Terry. So the anomalous lights, for 492 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:50.199 instance, did that occur? Were any of those being able to be recorded 493 00:45:50.360 --> 00:46:00.719 or seen by the NIDS investigators? There were various things that were seen the 494 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:07.440 I don't recall blue bulbs. I think we saw luminous lights on occasion, 495 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:19.880 uh, some of it. Uh. Eric recorded and reported an incident out 496 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:27.079 in the trees which were there was you know, Russian Allo's further to the 497 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:32.400 west and a building out there, and he talked about something moving through the 498 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:39.079 trees akin to what she saw in the Predator movie, you know, where 499 00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:45.039 what you really see is a distortion, not you know, firm details of 500 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:52.000 a specific object. Mm hmm. And and Eric, that's doctor Eric Davis, 501 00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:57.559 Is that correct if he chooses to be no, not. He's pretty 502 00:46:57.559 --> 00:47:00.639 well known man. Yeah. I think he's even done a few, not 503 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:07.880 many, but a few interviews regarding well he is. You know, he's 504 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:14.760 a legitimate astrophysicist, works for help put off now and does a lot of 505 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:21.119 work in anomalies, but a very credible guy. I would emphasize. One 506 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:27.800 of the things that was different about NIDS is that most of the observers that 507 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:34.920 we had up there all had at least one doctorate. In one case, 508 00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:43.480 guy had was a double doctorate at that UH trained, highly trained researchers and 509 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:53.119 you know, interested in the phenomena. Some of them fundamentally skeptical because you 510 00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:58.880 run up against trying to explain how any of these things could occur, and 511 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:05.400 it just devised explanation, well, what's interesting. And I saw this on 512 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.440 a mainstream show, but he also talked about this, I believe it a 513 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:14.039 move On symposium a few years ago, and we've talked to him about it. 514 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:20.599 I don't know that we have anything published on it, but Eric doctor 515 00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:23.960 Davis, who you're referring to, has talked about, you know, witnessing 516 00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:35.079 one of the most bizarre incidents at that happened during the study. And I 517 00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:42.360 was wondering if you could recall but biz is bizarre is relative in this case, 518 00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:46.519 is right? Orders of magnitude of bizarre. I mean the one I 519 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.000 described about the camera, I think it was one of the strangers where the 520 00:48:52.079 --> 00:49:00.719 damn thing was actually instrumented and yet recorded nothing. And I think it was 521 00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:09.519 Davis and talking about sort of a portal or something they had seen. Well, 522 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:15.360 we're a bit into conjecture at that point, but yeah, a lot 523 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.480 of us did sort of think that, and that part of the folklore is 524 00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:25.880 that there are and I'm not sure if you're talking about the one where something 525 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:32.199 came up out of a hole or there were other instances where holes were reported, 526 00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:38.760 like in the sky with things dropping down like UFOs and sounds coming out 527 00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:46.159 of the sky. That so portal, you know you will, in the 528 00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:53.280 New Age vernacular is pretty pretty generic. Yeah, I believe this was a 529 00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:58.599 story where something came out of the ground some sort of okay, yeah, 530 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:04.800 like the with that one, again, there were two observers just to lay 531 00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:13.320 it out. The ranch itself is mostly very flat open, but to the 532 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:20.079 north there's an escarpment that rises a couple of hundred feet, and so one 533 00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.679 of the things we would do is post people. In fact, what I 534 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:28.159 mentioned the first night that I stayed there, that's what I did was to 535 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:34.760 climb up on this escarpment where you could look down and see most of the 536 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:40.480 ranch. In this case, there was a dirt road that was running from 537 00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:47.039 east to west at the bottom of the escarpment. And one of the things 538 00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:52.000 that happened that I believe it was on two or three in the morning, 539 00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:57.239 and we're getting ready to close up shop and look down and I saw this 540 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:07.599 faint glow of light peered like slightly above the ground. The guess is I 541 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:13.000 think it was around three feet or so actually above the ground, and then 542 00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:22.000 the light sort of expanded to a wider circumference, and then all of a 543 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:30.000 sudden, something with a head and shoulders popped up out of that, pulled 544 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:36.119 itself out, jumped down as if on the ground, and went running off. 545 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.880 This was observed from a few hundred feet away. Again, they're up 546 00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:49.360 above looking down at the incident happened. This dirt road that I mentioned was 547 00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:54.400 very dusty, and one of the interesting things went down to where they saw 548 00:51:54.440 --> 00:52:02.159 it happen, and there were no footprints. Very very strange. And I'm 549 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:08.239 sure you felt, I would assume you felt that these reports were credible. 550 00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:17.559 Yeah, these are our guys. We're not talking about civilian reports coming in 551 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:24.719 and whatnot. These were people who work with us that happened to have been 552 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:32.119 one civilian researcher who came in from outside NIDS, but somebody we implicitly trusted, 553 00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:37.320 and they were using some pretty good night vision equipment at the time. 554 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:46.119 But again it depends on which events, but several of them had the one 555 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:53.880 I talked about with something moving through the branches of the olive tree and Eric 556 00:52:53.960 --> 00:53:00.840 perceived a message. And this is more like a telepathic inference that said we 557 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:07.480 are watching you. No influence as to who we are or what that meant 558 00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:15.480 or what happens. Do they do actions other than watching or what that might 559 00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:20.639 mean. I would say we, the best of my knowledge, never had 560 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:32.719 an accident in which humans were directly threatened or injured. Now, animals did 561 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:43.960 get injured, and there's a specific case of cattle mutilation that again defies explanation, 562 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:47.920 and if you want, we can discuss that one. Yeah, great, 563 00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.920 go ahead and describe that event. Yeah. Well, this one is 564 00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:02.400 truly amazing because it's calving season. This does start with Terry and they said 565 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:08.079 it's a working ranch. So it's a bright sunny day. Again, the 566 00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:13.000 landscape in this area is totally open, so you can see for quite a 567 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:16.679 way, so he goes in his truck and he finds a mother and a 568 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:22.920 newborn calf. And so the procedure is to weigh the calf, take data, 569 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:27.360 and then you put a tag in the calf's ear and with the mother, 570 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:34.079 so it's identified. You know what that relationship is. So he does 571 00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:40.719 that, and he drives a few hundred meters but again straight line, totally 572 00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:50.280 visible, finds another newborn calf, and he tags that and weighs that in 573 00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.960 some times, maybe between a half hour forty five minutes. And he comes 574 00:54:54.039 --> 00:55:00.920 back and the first cow is just beside herself, and cap one is dead. 575 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:07.800 And not only is it dead, the ear with a tag has been 576 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:13.960 sliced off. Looks like something extremely sharp had done that. It had been 577 00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:22.400 elucerated and exanguinated. And it was about that now the remains were about twenty 578 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:30.679 pounds less than what it had weighed twenty minutes ago. We sent We had 579 00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:36.079 Georgia Neett, who was a DPM among things, up to the ranch that 580 00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:40.039 day. We had protected the carcass to make sure nothing happened to it. 581 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:47.639 Again, there were a lot of slicing and one bone was moved out looked 582 00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:53.480 like some nicks from a sharp knife on it. But a one of the 583 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:59.719 things I had them do. People said, oh, simple, it was 584 00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:06.360 out and just you know, blood went into the ground. So I suggested, 585 00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:12.239 and they went to a nearby slaughterhouse and got a few courts of blood 586 00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:16.159 and came back in the area and we just poured it on the ground to 587 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:21.639 see what would happen. And weeks later you could go by and say, 588 00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:25.400 oh, that's where the blood was poured on the ground, at the point 589 00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:32.840 of the exanguinated calp no marks whatsoever. And we looked at, you know, 590 00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:42.400 every possibility of predation, you know, not the way big beer, 591 00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:47.599 big bears kill, not the way big cats, and there are a few 592 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:54.800 in the area, but there were no known predators that could have carried this 593 00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:00.920 out. One of the hypotheses was that it might be human, and you 594 00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:06.480 know, they probably still shoot cattle wrestlers. But the point is that, 595 00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:13.360 again, this is broad daylight, mid morning, totally open visibility. Nobody 596 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:16.360 on their right mind is you know, going to sneak across an open field 597 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:21.480 and cut up somebody's cap like that. Mm hmm. And I mean being 598 00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.480 ex sanguinated, like you said, the blood being taken, I mean it 599 00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:30.119 would have had to be collected and then removed right, which would have been 600 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:35.760 difficult. The point it was, it wasn't just drained where it went into 601 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:42.199 the ground, And that's why I had the experiment run pouring blood on the 602 00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:46.280 ground to see what it did look like and have pretty good comparative analysis of 603 00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:52.440 that. Mm hmm. So how did this, I mean, what was 604 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:55.559 your reaction to all of this? Did this change your worldview? Did it 605 00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:02.719 have I would imagine that this had to be pretty shocking for people. Well, 606 00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:09.320 that changed my not my worldview, No, But then I have a 607 00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:15.960 pretty broad worldview, and I've been involved in phenomena for decades and have seen 608 00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:22.199 some really really strange things in other locations. Certainly this was one of the 609 00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:30.800 more highly concentrated areas and ones in which you had this variety of phenomena that 610 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:39.920 were occurring and defying you know, scientific information and attempts to do research. 611 00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:45.079 Hence, that's why I said it was a precognitive sentient phenomena. It knew 612 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:50.840 what we were going to do. It seemed to know how we would respond 613 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:55.599 and what kinds of research we would attempt to do, and yet present things 614 00:58:55.719 --> 00:59:02.280 that were ineffable. And I mean this is a group of scientists, for 615 00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:09.000 the most part, very intelligent people that were outsmarted essentially by some unknown phenomena. 616 00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:14.599 Yeah, it's in charge. Whatever it is, it's in charge. 617 00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:19.199 Yeah, I mean that that may be well, was more scary aspects. 618 00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:23.679 Yeah, I would imagine like doctor Davis, for instance, wrote a paper 619 00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:30.719 on teleportation for the Air Force. I think a lot of people assume his 620 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:36.679 experiences with the ranch kind of influenced his his thinking, or at least opened 621 00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:42.920 his mind about you know, some some possibilities and uh, you know what 622 00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:49.159 physics is capable of. Did any of those scientists expressed, you know, 623 00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:59.199 a any emotional reaction or you know, just I would imagine, especially for 624 00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:04.559 someone who who isn't as familiar with paranormal as yourself, even myself, if 625 01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:07.880 I had experienced that, I mean, it would really leave a mark. 626 01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:13.239 Yeah, well, surely let the mark. I mean, there's no doubt 627 01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:19.159 about that. As you know, I've been seeing the stuff in voodoo in 628 01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:27.639 Africa and things that just cannot be explained as well a lot in South America 629 01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:37.639 and dealing with shamans and the Amazon, and various incidents in Brazil so I 630 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:42.159 would I got in mind that again, we had the Science Advisory Board that 631 01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:46.599 was world class by any standard. Now, of course we selected people who 632 01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:53.519 were open to the possibility of phenomena. Some of them were probably not as 633 01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:59.599 experienced with others like Jacques Bully, who is sort of fit in with a 634 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:08.920 sport to magonia but changing now it just fit in. It's a bunch of 635 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:16.920 pieces to a much much larger puzzle. So everybody was pretty professional about it. 636 01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:25.760 Nobody kind of very much. Nobody well no, but again this was 637 01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:32.760 a highly select body was being exposed to a number of phenomenon in other cases 638 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:37.440 that ND was looking into as well. I mean, if they had not 639 01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:43.199 been open minded about the phenomena, it would not have been invited to the 640 01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:47.360 board. So that kind of goes without saying. Now, I think if 641 01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:51.840 you went to the National Academy of Science and presented this, they tell you 642 01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:55.360 you were crazy. First of all, you wouldn't even get them to look, 643 01:01:55.400 --> 01:02:00.800 which is I think part of the problem is that and you have phenomena 644 01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:10.480 that seemed to lie outside normally accepted bounds, it's just a priori dismissed. 645 01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:15.880 But also, you know a lot of my bes looking at this on a 646 01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:22.559 global basis. Yeah, that's true in the West, but there are other 647 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:30.800 societies than those that are very Western oriented, highly well educated, who are 648 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:39.440 much more accepting of these various phenomena. So in all, do you feel 649 01:02:42.039 --> 01:02:45.719 as a group, the Scientific Board and Bob Bigelow and yourself, I mean, 650 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:52.239 because it was one step ahead, was the experiment of failure in not 651 01:02:52.280 --> 01:03:00.480 being able to record phenomena or how do you feel people felt about that? 652 01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:08.119 Well, I wouldn't. I could never say it was a failure, and 653 01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:15.559 that was because we did have so many observations. H it also means no, 654 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.039 we did not come up with the answer. And I you know, 655 01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.800 as you know, the last paragraph of my UFO book, which I think 656 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:27.679 is directly related, says that, uh, yeah, I don't think we're 657 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:31.440 at the point of asking the right questions. I think that what we have 658 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:39.280 is so terribly complex that it is beyond our imagination, and that when we 659 01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:45.199 attempt to, you know, do research projects, it's almost lappable. The 660 01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:51.360 other problem is it is very difficult to get the best in brightest minds. 661 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:54.840 I'm you know, you know, very familiar with the UFO community. I 662 01:03:54.880 --> 01:04:04.159 think many of them are very well meaning, but unfortunately often not qualified to, 663 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:11.360 you know, get into these scientific areas. That said, if the 664 01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:18.000 PSP is right, it wouldn't matter anyway. Well, and even though some 665 01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:28.280 individuals are capable and intelligent, any serious study requires organization and resources. And 666 01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:34.639 that's something that unfortunately doesn't seem to happen, especially when people are self guided 667 01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:40.079 and have just different ideas about how to go about the research. Well, 668 01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:46.000 it's that quite frankly. Funding is potentially another issue. I use a large 669 01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:53.920 Hadron collider as an example. Globally we've put over eighteen billion dollars into that 670 01:04:54.079 --> 01:04:59.599 looking for the god particle. I found the Higgs boson and then went from 671 01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:02.480 there and say, whoops, that wasn't it. And then we found peti 672 01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:08.880 quarks. But we have the mechanical model of the universe. It says if 673 01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:13.440 we cut things into smaller and smaller parts, we will eventually, you know, 674 01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:18.280 find the essential building block. It does not appear to take into account 675 01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:26.800 the role of consciousness or a multiverse. You know, we have multi dimensional 676 01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:32.360 universes that are interacting from time to time. Yeah, limited by what is 677 01:05:32.440 --> 01:05:40.519 known. Often, it seems, well, the problem from a scientific projective 678 01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:45.239 is in my view, the problem is that we start with the assumption that, 679 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:51.320 you know, it's a materialistic universe, and we do not in general 680 01:05:51.480 --> 01:06:00.880 accept even the possibility of spiritual interaction. And I think that's from mental mistake. 681 01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:06.199 By a spiritual interaction, do you mean kind of like an unknown force, 682 01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:15.960 but a force that is ever present I suppose at least in the human 683 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:21.199 body or well, there are several aspects to that. As you know, 684 01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:29.639 my doctor Villa worked in penatology and looking at near death experiences and again the 685 01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:34.960 continuation of consciousness beyond bodily death, and I think the evidence in favor is 686 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:45.480 extremely strong. But again, when I've traveled the world, you've come to 687 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:54.719 societies that talk about interactual with spiritual beings that guide entire life and interact with 688 01:06:54.920 --> 01:07:00.440 them sometimes on a very physical plane. Again, you know, Western world, 689 01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:09.880 we tend to disregard that without accepting the possibility you do run into and 690 01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:13.480 I don't want to get into religious arguments about you know, what does that 691 01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:18.079 mean? Is there a soul? And how does that fit into the process. 692 01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:27.639 But I think there are pieces to that puzzle that are associated and along 693 01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:31.280 the lines of what you referred to earlier with the ranch a sort of non 694 01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:42.679 physical intelligence or consciousness. Yeah, and the reason I used precognitive sentient is 695 01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.480 that, like I said, it was so smart that it knew what we 696 01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:55.239 were going to do, and polarly intelligent and clearly in control. Well, 697 01:07:55.280 --> 01:08:01.760 and some theoretical physicists do theorize on possible forces were not aware of, or 698 01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:08.239 even particles were not aware of that could make up and explain some of this 699 01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:15.960 and allow for non physical consciousness. And well, there are folks who are 700 01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:21.800 working particularly on quantum mechanics and trying to explain what that is. Much of 701 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:30.279 their frustration because they never quite get it. But again the base if you 702 01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:36.199 start with a premise that everything is material and you know, can be cut 703 01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:42.880 up into the smaller and smaller parts, that really limits your options when you 704 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:48.920 get to explaining the verritical observations that take place and in daily life. I 705 01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:55.640 mean, you know, near death experiences for instance, in the US, 706 01:08:55.680 --> 01:09:02.159 there are millions of people who have had these experience and it's only you know, 707 01:09:02.279 --> 01:09:09.199 kind of one example you have others. We used to teach psychokinesis no 708 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:16.199 physical way to explain the energy necessary to cause that to occur, you know, 709 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:21.239 from ghosts who you know, you know, pick your phenomena. There's 710 01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:27.920 some pretty hard evidence for all of those things. Speaking of, you know, 711 01:09:28.039 --> 01:09:33.760 measurements and things like that, were I mean, was there any success 712 01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:40.840 or or regularity to maybe such as the use of Geiger counters or E M 713 01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:45.840 F or or were you able to measure anything like that that you felt was 714 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:53.720 related to the phenomena. Oh yeah, the one of the applications we had 715 01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:57.680 with various A m F meters and things of that nature went out there. 716 01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:08.119 Yeah, you would find prey unusual fluctuation. I don't recall any radiological variation. 717 01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:15.439 That does appear in other phenomena as well. Classically the Bentwater case is 718 01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:21.560 a good example of that. But you, again, whatever it is seems 719 01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:28.880 to defy our ability to quantify it, and you did mention it. So 720 01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:32.039 I've got to ask, even though I don't have time to really get into 721 01:10:32.079 --> 01:10:36.319 it, but you did mention psychokinesis and training it. So are you saying 722 01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:42.880 that you've witnessed, you know, the ability of people to move objects with 723 01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:49.399 their Absolutely, that's probably a whole nother story. But yeah, I used 724 01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:57.720 to actually teach Jack howk had come up with the meaning. It got to 725 01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:03.199 be known as spoon bending parties, or we call PKMBO metal bending. And 726 01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:11.199 I was based on the work of Ury Geller, but we then had something 727 01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:16.560 that was teachable. And again the problem here was did it happen one hundred 728 01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:23.600 percent of the time. No, but there were examples where we had very 729 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:29.960 very dramatic experiences that happened, you know, in front of me and many 730 01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:35.439 many others and highly highly credible witnesses. And if you use the mechanistic model 731 01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:39.079 of world, one of the things you have to say is, Okay, 732 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:44.279 if if this metal bend, where did the energy come from? And I'm 733 01:11:44.319 --> 01:11:49.680 talking here about the kinds of things metal bending where there's no physical force applied, 734 01:11:51.960 --> 01:12:00.800 and you really cannot come up with a an explanation you able to do 735 01:12:00.920 --> 01:12:06.399 it? Ah? No, well I've done some things happen, But as 736 01:12:06.439 --> 01:12:12.760 I said, I was able to teach the process and observe others that had 737 01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:18.479 some pretty spectacular events occur. Wow, that's amazing. But I guess getting 738 01:12:18.520 --> 01:12:23.319 back to the ranch, some final questions. Do you feel that I know 739 01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:28.359 Bob Bigelow has sold the ranch, so it might not have I have no 740 01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:33.039 idea how expensive of an effort this investigation into the ranch was. But do 741 01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:40.239 you believe he felt it was money well spent in the end. Oh, 742 01:12:40.880 --> 01:12:45.079 I'm sorry, you'd have to ask him. I have no idea. I 743 01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:49.359 was not even aware they actually sold the ranch, so i'd heard. Yeah, 744 01:12:49.479 --> 01:12:55.800 there were other folks in there. Probably the biggest expenditure, however, 745 01:12:56.600 --> 01:13:02.479 would have been on salary for those of the working there. So I mean 746 01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:06.960 again, it was a working ranch and maintained part. You know, it's 747 01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:15.000 uh uh property value. So m hm. So and the family that he 748 01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:21.159 bought the ranch from, I understand stayed to work the ranch for a period 749 01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:26.279 of time, correct, a short period of time, yes, before leaving, 750 01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.800 and then I guess after that they were terribly harassed by the community. 751 01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:38.079 Things did not go well. Wife lost her job, and the bank directly 752 01:13:38.119 --> 01:13:43.359 related to that, the kids were getting harassed in school as the stories became 753 01:13:43.479 --> 01:13:48.680 known. So, yeah, public is it is not kind? Yeah, 754 01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:53.159 And I guess that's one side. You have people who say, wow, 755 01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:58.880 isn't that interesting, But the reality is that man level to bite you. 756 01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:01.319 Yeah. Yeah, these stories lately, there's a couple of stories that came 757 01:14:01.399 --> 01:14:05.159 up this week and that's why I thought it would be good to talk about 758 01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:08.960 this. Well, in the last few weeks, George Knapp, of course, 759 01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:13.439 who wrote the book Skinwalker or The Hunt for Skinwalker, has kind of 760 01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:15.520 put those on his Facebook, and that's how I became aware of them. 761 01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:20.199 It's by the week I saw that on his posts as well. Yeah, 762 01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:26.000 and one of those is about no I was going to say, I would 763 01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:32.600 really emphasize for folks that are interested to get those Georgia's call right and to 764 01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:35.560 not go to the ranch. And that was the whole point. It seems 765 01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:40.640 like that prompted these stories. Is that. In fact, the title of 766 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:45.479 the first one that came out on September twenty fourth of the two recent stories 767 01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:53.359 written by the UB media is Skinwalker Ranch activity shifts from paranormal to prosecutable because 768 01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:57.880 these guys are no longer experiencing or haven't experienced that, at least that they've 769 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:01.119 shared with the public, any paranormal experiences. The new owners, I mean, 770 01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:08.920 however, they're getting harassed by humans who keep trying to come on to 771 01:15:09.079 --> 01:15:14.399 the ranch or just walk around the ranch, and it's it's really been a 772 01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:18.399 difficult ordeal for them. It was unfortunately from the start. That's for the 773 01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:25.479 reason the general location was not well known, while while we were there, 774 01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:33.800 some people figured it out. But yeah, it's unfortunately that these quote researchers 775 01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:39.119 are, you know, just really screwing it up, and this is private 776 01:15:39.159 --> 01:15:44.600 property belong to somebody else. They have every right to maintain their privacy. 777 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:48.640 Yeah. So uh. In the end, I don't know if you have 778 01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:57.039 any comments about I find it unfortunate how much of this field treats Bob Bigelow, 779 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:02.199 because I really feel that his efforts were not in veina and not unsuccessful 780 01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:08.920 in that I've been able to interview George and Colm Kellahar and Eric Davis and 781 01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:15.840 others who are very, very credible people who did some great work and made 782 01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:19.880 a genuine effort to investigate this phenomena and all walked away, like you've expressed, 783 01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:26.399 saying, wow, whatever this is was a real intelligence that just outsmarted 784 01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:32.640 us, and that alone is very valuable I think for all of us looking 785 01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:38.039 into this topic. I mean, we wouldn't know about this phenomena at this 786 01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:43.760 ranch if it wasn't for Bigelow's efforts. But unfortunately, it seems his legacy 787 01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:51.199 is and is not often treated well by the UFO community. Well, sir, 788 01:16:53.680 --> 01:17:01.199 what's happened? You remember the my slides that I use and most of 789 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:05.319 my briefings, and it says you've got to have three things if you're going 790 01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:11.960 to play, And you'd better have a thick skin because you're going to be 791 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:15.920 attacked. You most understand conspiracy theory because you're going to be part of it, 792 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:20.239 whether you believe the conspiracy or not. And finally, for most people, 793 01:17:20.319 --> 01:17:24.239 you better have a day job because you're not going to make a lot 794 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:28.640 of money. Y out of amen to all three of those points, and 795 01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:31.880 amen to your entire book. I think it's one of the most important books 796 01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:36.399 in this field. It's definitely out of the top ten. I think, 797 01:17:36.520 --> 01:17:43.880 you know people need to understand just because you outline things like this, you 798 01:17:43.920 --> 01:17:47.880 know that are important observations of the field overall, and something you do need 799 01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:51.880 to understand when you're diving in because, like you said, you will get 800 01:17:53.000 --> 01:18:00.840 attacked. Yeah, the UFO community is not time there. They tend to 801 01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:03.840 be a bit cannibalistic. Yeah, you don't have to worry about tax from 802 01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:10.359 aliens or Bigfoot or any other paranormal phenomena. The attacks by the humans are 803 01:18:10.439 --> 01:18:14.840 the ones you want to look out for, right all right, Well, 804 01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:19.279 thank you so much for coming on the show again. Your website is al 805 01:18:19.720 --> 01:18:24.840 JOHNB. Alexander dot com where people can read more. They can see your 806 01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:29.760 book and how to get there, and also follow all of your adventures around 807 01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:32.279 the world. I was just thinking today, you're a person who they ought 808 01:18:32.359 --> 01:18:38.239 to make a reality television show about because you're all over the world doing exciting 809 01:18:38.319 --> 01:18:43.600 things. Lately swimming with the sharks. Yeah, we're just back from diving 810 01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:48.079 with the grade white sharks. Yeah, quite amazing, pretty exciting stuff. 811 01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:53.800 So thank you very much. Okay, thank you, I'll go. Thank 812 01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:58.319 you so much to John Alexander for being on the show. Remember you can 813 01:18:58.359 --> 01:19:03.039 find his book along with all of his information at John B. Alexander dot 814 01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:05.880 com and all of his adventures. He's all over the world. He's doing 815 01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:13.640 cool stuff. He's swimming with the sharks, he's talking to gurus and doing 816 01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:15.560 all kinds of crazy stuff. And he'll be talking about a lot of this 817 01:19:15.680 --> 01:19:21.279 crazy stuff at the twenty seventeen UFO Congress, so definitely come and check it 818 01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:27.840 out. So I personally love hearing from John, So thank you so much 819 01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:32.079 for being on the show, and the Skinwalker ranch is just such a fascinating 820 01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:36.399 topic, really incredible stuff, and it's really good. There's a lot of 821 01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:42.119 conjecture out there about Bob big Low his intentions and such, and I think 822 01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:45.079 it's best to get it from the horse's mouth, I mean, when it 823 01:19:45.079 --> 01:19:46.920 comes to move on. Sorry, folks, I was there, I was 824 01:19:47.039 --> 01:19:49.720 part, I was part of the board. I was one of the directors, 825 01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:53.800 not part of the board necessarily, but in the board meetings because I 826 01:19:53.840 --> 01:19:59.039 was a director with mofon when they created that relationship. And I've spoken with 827 01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:02.319 many of the people with NIDS and you know, it's a genuine effort to 828 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:11.159 investigate strange phenomena and I think that's fascinating and really cool. But it's great 829 01:20:11.279 --> 01:20:15.479 to hear from the people who have this inside information, and one of those 830 01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.000 is George Knapp. So remember if you want, if you don't know much 831 01:20:18.039 --> 01:20:21.920 about this ranch and you're thinking, what the heck this sounds crazy, go 832 01:20:23.079 --> 01:20:28.279 check out the book Hunt for the Skinwalker by George Knapp and Comb. Kellahart 833 01:20:28.359 --> 01:20:31.560 Comb is another guy I've spoken with, great guy. He still works for 834 01:20:31.640 --> 01:20:36.159 Bob Bigelow, So go check out that book. You can find it, 835 01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:40.640 I believe definitely find it on Amazon, but I think you can find it 836 01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:46.399 in many of the bookstores even to this day. So really really really good 837 01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:53.960 stuff. And of course come to the conference to listen to John speak. 838 01:20:54.279 --> 01:20:58.199 I don't know if I've told you all to you. I've posted practically all 839 01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:00.880 the speakers, so we have almost all the speakers listed. The last one 840 01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:10.760 is Erling Strand, who is a professor at the Oslo College and University. 841 01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:15.520 I think it's called in Denmark oust Guard or something like that. It's got 842 01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:18.880 I can't I don't remember the name right now, but anyways, it's this 843 01:21:19.079 --> 01:21:25.159 university that is doing actual investigation of the Hesdelin lights, which is one of 844 01:21:25.159 --> 01:21:30.079 the longest ongoing kind of UFO investigations and one of the few, if not 845 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:35.279 the only, by actual university. But erling Strand will be coming from Norway 846 01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:40.840 to come and speak about the Hesdelen lights, give you details, show you 847 01:21:40.960 --> 01:21:45.279 videos. I mean there are videos of these UFOs that have been captured by 848 01:21:45.439 --> 01:21:51.159 these you know, scientists and other investigators. So he will also be speaking 849 01:21:51.279 --> 01:21:55.680 at the UFO Congress. So we've got a great lineup, and of course 850 01:21:55.680 --> 01:22:00.399 I'll be telling you more about these speakers as time goes on. As you 851 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:05.640 heard me talk about with Mark earlier, I mean with Martin earlier. We 852 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:12.000 do have another UFO Magazine video coming out. This will be more about UFO 853 01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:17.000 reporting by the government, So more about official UFO reporting you probably don't know 854 01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:24.600 about, just evidence documenting that the government certainly has been interested in UFOs since 855 01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:28.800 nineteen sixty nine, despite what they've been telling the public, and it's right 856 01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:32.359 there in their own files. So how have they been reporting and investigating those 857 01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:35.640 We'll get into that in the next video, so keep an eye out there. 858 01:22:36.239 --> 01:22:42.800 We did also have Michael Klinis putting together these videos from our archives of 859 01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:47.560 strange UFO photographs, so you can check that out. Michael has some new 860 01:22:47.560 --> 01:22:53.119 ones, so go check our YouTube for all of this crazy and why all 861 01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:58.960 of this crazy and wild stuff, really really good stuff out there. Also, 862 01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:01.640 if you want to read more about anything that Martin and I talked about 863 01:23:01.640 --> 01:23:06.359 in the UFO News earlier, you can go to Openminds dot tv. In 864 01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:11.159 fact, those stories we talked about, including all of the links to all 865 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:17.319 of those wikileak emails from Podesta that we talked about, really interesting developments you 866 01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:23.359 can go find and also links to like the Wall Street Journal story and other 867 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:28.520 stories about all of this. So really, I gotta say you'll probably get 868 01:23:28.520 --> 01:23:33.279 the most information about Podesta and those links, those WikiLeaks at our site than 869 01:23:33.319 --> 01:23:39.600 any other site out there Openminds dot tv. That's right, folks. So 870 01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:44.600 remember also some of the past lectures from the International UFO Congress you can find 871 01:23:44.680 --> 01:23:48.239 on our website. You can subscribe to our video portal for a very low 872 01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:53.359 monthly fee and get access to tons and tons of lectures and videos. And 873 01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:57.920 that's also where you can find out information about the UFO Congress. You can 874 01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:02.479 register. You can also go to Ufocongress dot com. So we've got lots 875 01:24:02.479 --> 01:24:08.399 and lots of really cool stuff going on. We're just keeping busy making sure 876 01:24:08.479 --> 01:24:13.840 to continue to have a steady stream of information coming to you all, who 877 01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:19.760 we love so much. Thank you very much to Caleb Hanks for the open 878 01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:25.920 end close music. And finally, I want to thank you once again for 879 01:24:26.119 --> 01:24:29.720 listening to the show. I hope you have a wonderful week. We will 880 01:24:29.760 --> 01:25:28.079 talk to you soon. Audio's mood Dattos your emotionless sound glass