WEBVTT

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So now we're heading to Michigan to
where a commissioner wants to prevent Satanist from

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giving an invocation. Jonathan tell us
a little bit more about the story.

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Certainly, on April twenty third,
a minister from the Satanic Temple of West

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Michigan will be delivering the invocation at
a monthly meeting of the Ottawa County Board

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of Commissioners in Michigan. The Satanic
Temple applied as required by the procedures and

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regulations established by the Board for delivering
the invocation. They were subsequently given the

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invocation for April twenty third, So
the procedures were established by the board in

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response to a twenty twenty three lawsuit
by the local episcopal He filed the suit

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claiming religious discrimination against non evangelical churches. This after he had asked to do

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the invocation several times and was refused
back then. At that time, the

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board chairman, a evangelical Christian,
picked the speakers from a group of evangelical

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churches that he particularly liked and disregarded
all other churches and all other applicant.

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The lawsuit is still in the courts, but it did push the board to

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pass a new invocation policy. Now
anyone who wanted to speak had to make

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a formal request in writing to their
local commissioner, and then a staffer would

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then schedule their speakers, and so
the Satanic Temple got their date and invocation.

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Of course, this did not sit
well with one of the six extremists

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on the board elected in twenty twenty
two. They had an extremist takeo and

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who claims it's against the Christian values
of the county, whatever those are,

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and in a lengthy diatribe online he
seemed very determined to keep Satan out of

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the county, even though that's not
what's happened. The Satanic Temple straw man

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that he's building to deny access,
it's just awaiting somebody's match this after they

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past the resolution that the county was
a constitutional county or whatever thatpens. Yeah,

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well, it seems like that a
lot of times when we're having when

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we're actually talking about these particular stories, like people bring up the Constitution so

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much, but they just happened to
gloss over that whole thing about the establishment

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clause and Thomas Jefferson's whole thing about
separation, the wall between us, the

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state and also religion. But oh, we digress. So I know that

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the whole thing was mentioned about this
rotating roster, and I know, Eli

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you talked a little bit about that
in your notes well, about Ottawa County's

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rotating roster of leaders in the community
to deliver the invocation. But even as

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Jonathan talked about the county board chair, Joe Moss has his favorite can we

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talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, So it seems like just

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kind of like Jonathan really summed up
good or sum it up well, I

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should say the there was just a
handful of local religious leaders that Joe Moss

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was the board chair, the county
board chair, he was hand selecting these

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leaders. He wouldn't allow the opportunity
to a local Episcopal leader who sued the

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board in twenty twenty three, and
although the lawsuit is still in court,

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it did prompt a new policy to
where anyone who wants to deliver an invocation.

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This is the policy John talked about
that TST followed in this case,

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anybody who wants to deliver an invocation
at a county board meeting can submit a

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written request and be scheduled. Minister
of Satan Reverend Lewis Cipher applied and was

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scheduled attentatively, as John said,
for April twenty third, And that's when

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Commissioner Jacob Benema challenged TST with all
the authority of a Facebook post rambling about

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his objections to TST, to Reverend
Cipher speaking at the NK or giving the

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invocation. Now we already know how
much authority Facebook post have eli so you

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know, don't don't jump down history
too too much. You know, we're

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talking about the most popular medium for
flat earth and beer and mid conspiracies and

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so yeah, that's scary, that's
very scary. But I'm coming to you,

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Helen, to talk about more scary
things because you are a resident member

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of TST, and I'm pretty sure
that you have some pretty interesting thoughts,

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specifically about Commissioner Banema from Attawa,
from the Ottawa County Board. Please please

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be please, Okay, it's start
off Hall Satan by the way, my

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wonderful nonprofits viewers out there, and
to my fellow panelists. So this like

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these mofos I am over. I
know I say this a lot, but

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because it just seems to be a
running thing when we talk about the TSD

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that they're like, hey, we
want to participate in public stuff too,

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but you know, if you if
you are allowing religious groups to have space

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and you know, public forms and
in front of the city commission, Wow,

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we want to participate too. And
they're like, Nope, because you're

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scary, and I think the devil's
real, and because I have the beliefs

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of a five year old, so
I'm scared. So Nope, I don't

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like it because it makes me uncomfortable. And I'm like, okay, I'm

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like, I'm sorry that you know
you're you're suffering from a booo. But

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let's have a conversation. So Commissioner
Bonima, I think that's why I pronounced

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it, wants to pretend it isn't
what he thinks it is and trying to

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pretend that he's trying to repress,
not repress somebody's freedom to have the religious

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expression. And he just says,
like, the TSD is all theatrics now,

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Granton, Yes, but the reason
why is because of this exact thing.

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We're trolling you man, And the
reason why we're trolling you is because

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you haven't read the Constitution and don't
believe in the establishment. Clause and that's

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a problem as an elected official.
So you know, I think you,

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I think you need to like just
sit down and read the document that you

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promised to uphold. You know,
I think it's so interesting. I think

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it's so interesting when I listened to
like Christians who happen to be especially like

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evangelical Christians and being one back in
the day, even before when I was

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an Episcopalian back in the day that
they talk about the Satanic Temple being so

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theatrical. But I mean, have
you sat through your services? I mean,

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like if anybody can be can actually
claim Viata, it's definitely a Christian

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church, whether if you like my
Catholic upbringing right, like the Catholics like

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all the bells and smells and kneeling
and standing and also doing your chanting right,

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and and don't go to a Pentecostal
church because you might see somebody do

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a Simone Biles on you. You
know. But going back to a more

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serious topic, you know, in
the article Commissioner Bonima Banima, I promise

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you, audience that we're going to
have all types of pronunciations for this commissioner's

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name before the end of the whole
you dig. But one of the things

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that he claimed is that Satanists shouldn't
be allowed to deliver the invocation because it

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violated the supposed Christian values as our
panelists have said of the community. Whatever

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that means, I don't I don't
know, I mean like whatever. Plus

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he added that the Satanists are just
engaging in cheap theatrics, as Helen has

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pointed out, and pulling a publicity
stunt. Yes, I know that word

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publicity hooked on findings work for me. So Jonathan, I want to come

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to you because you also quoted him
as saying I advocate for maintaining peace within

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our community. So when you read
that, what were your thoughts? How

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this ingenuous? That was the first
thing. His pages long argument basically declares

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that the Satanic Temple is not a
religion, which it is under US law,

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and it's just doing a publicity stunt
and should be refused. That's not

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a grounds, that's a typical judgmental, intolerant, ignorant Christian hate to be

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so it is not even good pr
So whoever's doing their marketing needs to be

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fired, nor a valid argument either. So, because there's no subject obtor

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and It's not the least hypocritical,
is it. So let's go to what

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he actually said. I advocate for
maintaining peace within our community. I urge

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our board leadership to recognize the situation
for what it truly is, a mockery

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and a publicity stunt. I implore
them to rescind the invitation and to put

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an and then to this senseless charade. So denying members of your constituency equality

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with other churches is maintaining peace.
Who's p your church's peace? That's what

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got you into the first lawsuit.
You just want to start another one.

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How peaceful is that? You want
to end the Satanist invocation? Here is

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a clue. Just do away with
all religious crap at your county meetings altogether.

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How about that You think that might
work? That's my opinion on it.

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No, No, not end any
or invite any person to do an

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invocation or not actually doing an invocation
at all at the beginning of a county

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board meeting. That has to do
with government with elected officials. What Jonathan,

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you are an anarchist? Hey?
Our government secular? Get over it,

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your Americans and ought to support the
government exactly for who is not telling

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you what to believe and how to
run things. A government who is not

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telling maybe you want to support that, particularly in your capacity as a representative

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of that. The other thing I
have to just have to say this,

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and I might get a lot of
push ahead, but there is a majority

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sect of Christianity that might gain control
if you make this a Christian country and

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you ain't it. Scotus has six
of them and none of you. There

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are more than a few in Congress
too. Are you sure you want a

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Christian country? The guy you might
be bowing a need to might run around

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in a white stole and cass just
give that some thought. No, that's

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a that's a good segue as far
as like going back to this whole Commissioner

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Bonima Bonima Barana rama when he actually
wrote his Facebook post authoritarianism, as Eli

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so aptly put it. But you
know, we're talking about Christian principles,

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Christian values. We even talked about
that earlier in this week, about how

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others are trying to imbue this particular
edict on the rest of the country.

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And I know that Eli, you
talked about that as well in your notes,

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about these Christian principles that Bonama was
so aptly wanting to put towards to

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Ottawa County Board. Can you talk
a little bit more about that? Yeah,

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so Jakie Bones is just he has
another claim here about Christian values,

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right, and it's I have really
the same response. So we go to

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his official public relations memo, I
mean his Facebook post in which he says,

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the foundation of our community on these
Christian principles has contributed to its appeal

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and attractiveness. God's hand has guided
the development of our community. And I

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paraphrase, I did do dot that
a little bit, so I took some

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out, but nothing that changes the
meaning. And I struggle so fucking hard,

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just like I said on the last
segment, to understand what people mean

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when they say Christian principles. Do
you mean not killing, not being an

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asshole, empathy, sympathy? Is
there a single good moral value that can

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be uniquely attributed to Christianity and nothing
and to nothing else. We have observed

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morally unambiguous behavior in rats in nineteen
fifty nine, nineteen sixty two, twice

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in nineteen sixty nine and in twenty
eleven. In twenty fifteen, we saw

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it in pigeons in nineteen eighty six, and in several primate species, twice

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in nineteen sixty four, in two
thousand and six, twice in seven,

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in eight, ten, eleven,
and seventeen, and in countless other times

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in other species and in the same
it's not even close to half from the

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studies that have been done that have
observed behavior that we attribute to morality in

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non human animals. And I would
and do and will argue that animals are

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decidedly non Christians. So if Christianity
is the basis for these principles and these

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values, why are we observing them
in non Christian non human animals. What

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is the disconnect name for me,
a single Christian principle that I can't explain

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with just like, yeah, well, we're social animals and there was a

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social benefit to behave this way and
not being an asshole. So we all

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started behaving this way because when you
don't, people think you're a dick and

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they don't want to help you,
and now you're on your own and you

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die. Well, you know I
have to push back on you. Eli.

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I see my dog bowing down and
singing how great thou art every night

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when she wants yes, yes,
it's more like, how great thou dog

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food because I'm hungry. But regardless
of that, Helen, I know,

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I can really imagine your indignation when
you're reading this story, and especially when

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you are covering yet another time elected
officials using their Christian principles, as Eli

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talked about and Jonathan's well to basically
practice religious bigotry. So, you know,

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I would like to get more of
your thoughts, especially on the Satanic

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Temple's response of the behavior of Bonima
Bonama Baranorama fau Fembo. So I really

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do like the fact that the TSD
was like, yeah, we're not really

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going to back down because like you
said that we could and just and again

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like just because Banana rama Man was
like, well I don't really like this,

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and we're like okay, And their
response was to make sure that okay,

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if you're going to discriminate, then
you're going to get a lawsuit.

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You can't do that. And I
think this is a very good way to

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say, at president, not only
for the TSD, but like, what

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of a Islamic group wanted to do
a religious ceremony, you know, at

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the at this at the county commissioners
counting commissioners building holding most I can talk

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or any other any other group that
is recognized to have a religion in the

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United States, Like if you're Pagan, Muslim, Jewish, you know,

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whatever it is. If you are, you're meant to be protected under the

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Constitution. And I do want to
quote Bender bones An Un Dame Minister of

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the Satanic Temple of West Michigan.
I want to thank the County Board and

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the Ottawa Impact Organation for their declaration
of attempt to uphold the valids enshrined in

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our constitution. She told the board. It may our constitutional rights are most

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churched assets as United States citizens,
and even more so as Satanists. The

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First Amendment states that Congress shall make
no law respecting the established establishment of religion,

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nor restrict the free exercises thereof.
Now, I think these are all

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words that are very very important living
in democracy, and we should take those

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things to heart. Just because you
don't like something doesn't mean you get to

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restrict the light rights of other human
beings when we're protected under the lah.

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I am so sorry, Banana ramon
Man that this is upsetting you, But

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grow up. You're not five years
old, and just deal with it because

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we all have to deal with all
the Christian shit that we have to deal

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with. Deal with something that's making
you uncomfortable for half an hour, my

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goodness, and that's it. That's
my that is my sane as rant.

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Well, it's a good rant,
and I appreciate it, but you know,

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my thoughts are just like this,
guys. If the commissioners actually succumb

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to the pressure of Bottomah to exclude
the Satanic Temple from delivering the invocation,

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as we all mentioned, they are
facing a lawsuit, point blank, period,

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and the Tatana Temple can should be
able to deliver the invocation if it's

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something that's being offered for that particular
government body. And the thing that we're

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all really screaming is that we are
seeing these lines blurred between separation or church

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and state, and they need to
be clarified so that the boundaries of religious

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freedom in public forums can actually be
held up the way that the founders intended

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it to be held up. And
in essence, the situation actually underscores the

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importance of upholding constitutional principles of religious
neutrality in government proceedings WOW and the need

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to protect the rights of all individuals
to express their beliefs without discrimination or censorship.

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Q bigotry, duck here. Oh
David's not here today. Huh that's

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unfortunate. Quack quack, Yeah,
yeah, don't worry about it, quack quack