WEBVTT

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Hello. This is Deb hosted Deb's
data dojo and researcher for Calling Old Beings.

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This podcast is part of the Calling
Old Beings channel. I'm very grateful

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that you're here today to listen as
I speak to our special guest. The

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first guest today is Nathan, who
has been a co host with me.

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Nathan is co host of Collinigal Beings
and Luminal Frames, a podcast with XO

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Academian. Hey, Nathan, how
are you great deal? Thanks for having

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me on. Looking forward to chatting
with you. I'm very excited to see

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your channel and podcast grow. You've
You've done an excellent job, a very

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strong start. So really looking forward
to this chat tonight. I think the

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secret sauce is this is just a
fascinating thing to talk about, isn't it?

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Oh man, no shortage of cool
things? I know, right,

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there's so much to talk about.
Okay, So would you like to know

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who we have as our main guest
today? Absolutely? Okay, we have

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a very special guest and someone I
consider it to be a friend. We

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have mister James. I am Dollie. Nice. Welcome James. Okay,

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Hey guys, thanks for having me. Hi there so I'm gonna tell everyone

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about who you are. James.
James works to educate the public on his

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two YouTube channels, engaging the phenomenon
and meta perspective. He works with concepts

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of high strangeness see five, celepathy, meditation, and so much more.

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Welcome James, I'm glad to be
here. Thank you so much for having

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me on. Okay, so can
can you start at the beginning for us

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and tell us a little bit about
what brought you into working on high strangeness

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see five, all those fun topics, sry. I can give you the

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long of the start, which one
you want to find long? Yeah,

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the whole show. Well here,
I'll start off short and you leave me

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from there. I starting starting from
a very young age. I had experiences

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that fall within the realm of high
stranges. So you know, you're talking

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about interaction with entities, out of
body experiences, lucid dreaming and things of

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that nature, and they always stood
out to me. They were always very

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vivid, they were always intriguing to
me, and they happened frequently enough where

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I didn't I didn't see it as
like a one off. So because that

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happened at a very early age,
from a young age. A lot of

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these things I just took as part
of life. And with that being said,

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I you know, even as a
young kid, I would read books

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and you know, all different topics
from UFOs to you know, even meditation

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and different things like that at but
more so on the UFO side. One

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in around two thousand and seven,
that's I'm trying to think, I'll be

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I'm twenty years old at two thousand
and seven, So right when I'm around

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twenty years old, I had a
series of close encounters that were very profound

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and uh they changed my life and
they were transformed of in a way where

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I can no longer like be interested
in this stuff. It was at that

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point I had I felt the need
to get like directly involved right with engaging

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the phenomenon, so to speak.
So that that led me on a journey

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to you know, discovering CE five
and getting very directly involved with the C

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five movement and setting up some of
the first C five networks on the Internet,

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and getting involved with CE five field
work and actually being proactive and doing

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C five contact work out on the
field. Because prior to that, as

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far as I know, all the
experiences that had happened to me were passive

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or involuntary, meaning they just kind
of happened to me. I guess you

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could say, by chance, if
there is such a thing. But when

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I had heard about CE five it, I was thinking, like, I

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didn't know how to I didn't think
of that before. Why didn't I think

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to kind of like initiate that by
myself? So finding that was profound for

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me. And may I ask it, Did it feel like you've got some

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control of something that was a little
bit uncontrollable with it in a sense?

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Yes, in a sense, Yes, I say in a sense, because

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that's kind of like the very beginning
of my journey, in the sense of

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that becoming a thing, because you
know, C five and even being able

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to work with that framework to borrow
from liminal frames, you know, coupled

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with very intensive meditation practice and study. Uh, I think gave me you

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know, all that together and working
diligently at that is overall I think what

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gave me more of that sense of
maneuverability, you know. So I would

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say it's that was the beginning of
it. Yeah, Now would you be

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comfortable telling us what those entities looked
like at all? I'm just curious.

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I don't want to push if you
don't want to tell us. Yeah,

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these So if you're talking about the
ones early on, they were almost transparent.

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You know, people talk about shadow
people. This I guess could fit

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into that category, but there were
something luminous about it, and at that

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point I was, you know,
as a kid, I was terrified.

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And honestly, the real part about
that that was most shocking to me wasn't

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even seeing it it or them.
It was when I heard the voices in

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my mind or my body, I
guess you could say, because there's more.

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It's more than just like listening.
It's more than hearing. I felt

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it in my body too, but
so both of those together. But really,

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again, what really shook me,
I guess you could say was was

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actually hearing the voice to it.
So both were jarring. But again,

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if I were to describe the aesthetic, it was almost like shadow type that

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had a luminous, you know,
luminosity to it. But then again I

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saw it literally morph into an orb
So that's what those entities actually look like.

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I think we could probably do at
least two hours just talking about light

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beings and orbs and how they seem
to be involved with this phenomenon, Nathan

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Y. Yeah, interesting ideas about
what that might mean. Well, I

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was also going to say that,
you know, I can't, I can't

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one hundred percent day that this entity
and interaction is is one certainly directly associated

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with the UFO phenomenon. You know, in retrospect, I see correlations,

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but at that time, in that
age, I wasn't thinking, you know,

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UFOs, that's that's not for that
time. Yeah, it's interesting,

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James. When I became interested in
this, it was long after I had

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interest in other paranormal things. You
know, when I was younger, I

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was interested in spirits and you know, New Age concepts, and I didn't

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think I'd get pulled into this,
but I got pulled. So yeah,

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So I do think ultimately all these
things are connected. Yeah. I think

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that there's definitely at least some kind
of intersection to this or point of convergence

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as we can now you know,
shout out to exo academian there. Definitely,

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So, I mean, what are
the odds? Right, there's there's

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people that don't experience anything at all, right, like just nothing as far

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as they can consciously recall and admit
maybe some people you know, have passing

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things and they just don't pay much
attention and move on from there. But

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you know, what are the odds
that, you know, one person that

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has a UFO encounter also happens to
have several other types of encounters, whether

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it's a ghost thing or precognition.
And the funny thing is is that it

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seems if you have one of these
experiences, it's more likely that you're going

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to have the others. You know, the Free Study or you know now

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it's the Conscious Contact Research Institute c
CRI with Ray Hernandez did a bunch of

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research and you know that had some
PhDs and they took in data from I

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think at least four thousand people and
that's that's what the information showed. Well,

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one thing I definitely would like is
for us to figure out what the

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basic framework is for consciousness, like
what is the science behind that. We've

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had some back and forth discussions about
could it be evolution, Could we just

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have evolved to the point where we're
perceiving things that were already there is?

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Is it just a basic building block
that we're unlocking from our DNA somehow?

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So, Yeah, there's a lot
a lot to unpack with that. So

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I wanted to ask about the C
five in particular. I know a lot

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of people don't understand what C five
is, and there's some stigma because of

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some people that are associated with C
five. So I thought, maybe you

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could tackle that a little bit and
explain it a little bit to the people

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who are new to the concept.
Sure, which which part should I tackle

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first? The stigma or or the
background of what C five is. Probably

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start with what C five is.
Yeah, let's do that first, Okay,

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So well, I can actually weave
them together a bit. So you

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know, C five is close encounters
of the fifth kind, which is generally

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a human initiated contact event. So
I actually did a video today that describes

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the different categories and the degrees of
C five. So you know, generally,

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when we're talking about C five,
we're talking about a person or a

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group of people that are intentionally going
out to have a close encounter with UFO

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intelligence. And doctor Greer would again, doctor Greer founded the term CE five

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and with that the CE five protocols. So doctor Stephen Greer founded these protocols.

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He said he discovered them with UFO
Intelligence in the mid nineteen seventies,

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but then he officially founded C set
and the C five initiative in about nineteen

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ninety nineteen ninety one, and you
know, he kind of set down the

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groundwork of how he defined CE five. But really, if you look at

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CE five close encounters of the fifth
kind in a meta picture, so a

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larger kind of aspect of it or
framework would be contact. It's just intentional

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contact. So when when doctor Greer
created the CE five protocols, it was

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his methodology specifically of how to do
a CE five and his protocol was basically

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that you do some kind of meditation, You get into a deep calm,

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meditative state, and you do what
he calls coherent thoughts sequencing, and that's

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in his view. You know,
you're using remote viewing actually, and you're

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trying to use your inner vision to
see a UFO or UFO occupant or any

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kind of UFO intelligence and and vector
them in visually in your mind's eye to

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the contact site and to your exact
location. So that is as CE five.

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And the big stigma behind C five
many of you will know, is

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that it's it's doctor Stephen Greer.
Doctor Stephen Greer is kind of an important

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name in in ufology and in a
lot of regards actually disclosure and contact.

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But he rubs a lot of people
the wrong way. He's had his fair

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share of mishaps, and often that
reflects on CE five because he he's seeing

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as the founder of CE five,
even though in the past, you know,

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especially in the seventies, there were
several different people that were doing exactly

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well we would define a CE five, although they didn't use what doctor Stephen

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Greer would call the CE five protocols. So there's a distinction there that you

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know, you know, CE five
itself is not bound to the CE five

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protocols. The CE five protocols are
one way to achieve C five. You

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know, in the nineteen seventies,
nineteen seventy four, there was a group

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in Lima, Peru in South America
with six Dopaswell's and his friends and family,

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and they were doing just about the
same thing. They were getting into

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deeper states of concentration and using automatic
writing, and they would get communications and

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use this automatic writing and be told
to go out to a certain location at

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a certain time and date and mission. Rama and Sixto Pazwalls called this programmed

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sightings, and they had very high
success levels, even with local media going

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to the sites with them and recording
these strange objects that would appear at the

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time and date and location that these
program sightings, which are CE five's by

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definition, even though they're not using
the C five protocols. And again we

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have Dorothy ease At. You know, she was sitting at home doing her

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meditation one day and she heard a
communication she went outside and saw I craft

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And you know that there's a whole
story to Dorothy ease At as well.

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So I have always wondered if that's
how she did it, if she was

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because I think of it, honestly, I have that scientific minded concept that

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it might be like we make ourselves
at antenna, and I've always wondered if

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that somehow she was using what scientists
now call the biofield and omitting it.

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But it does seem like you have
connected it to remote viewing in a way

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that I haven't thought of before.
And I appreciate that because that was going

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to be a question later well.
Because actually, if you look at doctor

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Stephen Greer's materials for like the c
SETI Working Group Manual, which again I

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covered a video today talking about the
different degrees of C five and the different

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levels. But doctor Stephen Greer actually
calls his Coherent Thoughts sequencing, which is

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CTS for short, which is actually
the main gist of the protocol because the

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rest of it, you know,
the meditation is not necessarily uh, the

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protocol itself. That's just priming for
for using the protocol and for having field

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interactions with you UFO intelligence. But
he actually calls coherent thoughts sequencing r V

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two like remote viewing level two,
because you're not only having a remote view,

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but you're then using your consciousness and
awareness to vector that intelligence in so

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you're actually kind of going a step
beyond. So again, if you look

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in Stephen Grier's old training materials,
it says r V two. That's fascinating.

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Yeah, So I mean, where
do I begin here? I want

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to begin with consciousness. Yeah,
super easy, easy topic there. But

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the you know, James, we've
kind of talked a little bit about this

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before, but I want to get
your take on on your interpretation of what's

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going on with consciousness sort of generally. And I know that, I mean

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at least for me. I'll see
for myself, my understanding of this is

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very much in process, so I
don't feel like I've got you know,

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a firm, real firm sense of
what's happening here. However, I am

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kind of trending and leaning toward consciousness
being you know, sort of both non

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local but also really the bedrock of
reality itself. And I just wonder how

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you, you know, through the
journey that you've been on, interpret not

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only I guess, like the protocols, because when I think of a protocol,

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I think of that from the standpoint
of something that is very like like

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like laboratory experiment. Right, It's
like you know, you're you're doing a

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certain sequence of things to kind of
have a maybe not a perfectly predictable,

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but a fairly predictable result. That's
the whole point of having a protocol is

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you want to try to, you
know, achieve a similar kind of outcome.

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So you have that kind of like
materialist view of engagement. And I

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wonder how you think of that in
light of what may very well be something

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that's you know, kind of non
material at all, you know, and

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that is consciousness. So has your
understanding or relationship to consciousness, has that

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changed over time or you know,
how are you thinking about it now?

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I don't know how. I mean, I guess I am hopefully in a

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constant low of change, hopefully getting
things a little bit better. But yeah,

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consciousness and and well and really the
protocol too, and you mentioned the

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material and the immaterial or non material, so you know, actually the protocol

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itself, say see five protocols or
contact modalities, but specifically with the CE

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five protocol actually in the beginning was
very much a research and development thing.

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Uh. You know, even in
the early years if we're talking about c

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set, they they said they were
surprised at the success they were getting,

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how fast they were getting it.
So, you know, that's one thing

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I think consciousness. You know,
there's a there's a superb book by Lynn

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McTaggart called The Field, and you
know, talks about consciousness as the field

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maybe as an all enveloping you know
field MH. So you know, we

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we use terms like material and non
material given our current understanding, you know,

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as if there's certain things that we
we can't really measure, right and

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at what what what what? At
what point does it become material? Just

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if if we did discover a way
to measure consciousness right in some kind of

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unit, you know what, it
then become material that I'm just posing that

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kind of as an open question.
But I I do think that UFO intelligence

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is able to two technologically or or
maybe in some other way. I'm using

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technology from a way I can perceive
it. But the UFO phenomenon scene seems

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to be able to be able to
interact with with whatever consciousness is, right,

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I mean, on every level that
we can perceive it. So you

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know, you have things like the
telepathy and you know, if you've seen

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that movie The Arrival, the Newer
One right with Amy Adams, and they're

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interacting with these beings, I mean
the way that they are, you know,

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interacting even through synchronicity and time and
precognition. You know what does that

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say about consciousness? You know,
it's just to me, it's just makes

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me ask more questions. So I
think, yeah, yeah, I just

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have more questions. So this is
why I want to bring up a great

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place for those questions. That I
appreciate the Society for Scientific Exploration because they

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actually have peer reviewed papers in their
journal on consciousness and the science behind it.

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And I actually have one of their
channel things right here, so we

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could look at some of the titles
that they have together. So look,

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they got ESP practitioners astrology as a
subject of science remote viewing John Alexander's on

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here. The reason I initially had
heard about them was because put off,

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how put off it actually presented to
them, And I didn't connect this until

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later of who they were. Oh, this is one of my favorites.

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The human biofield, and this is
where I feel my heart is related to

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consciousness. I suspect that there's something
there, so let me go ahead and

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head out of that. So for
those who are not aware, what was

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formerly known as the aura is now
basically called the biofield. It connects in

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some way to what we also called
she or chakras or even if you want

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to take a religious bend, it
seems to be the spirit. And they're

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studying it in a scientific way.
They're actually taking measurements, they're using some

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systems. Other scientists are using some
systems to look at photons emitted from people,

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and the people studying the biofields claim
that our biofield, which you know,

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of course if you research, we
really do have sort of a radiation

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from our bodies some people call it
thermal radiation can go out about six feet

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and so I've been experimenting with all
of that. I find that fascinating.

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And I you know, when they
research people who meditate, for instance,

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they show the changes that are happening
in their brains and they can change like

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the energy changes are visible. So
what do you guys, just what are

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your thoughts about that? I think
it's cool. Yeah, for sure,

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I think it's cool. So actually, now this brings me to some things,

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like I think I'll say, you
know, in chigung, it depends

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what chigong teacher you speak to,
because some are more conservative than others.

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But somebody who's like a Chigung's cheegung
guy who's really about it and is not

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going to kind of dumb down what
they actually teach. You know, they'll

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tell you that practicing chigong will increase
your intuition and even psychic energy. So

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in Eastern traditions they very much correlate
you know, the bio field and energetics

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with psychic phenomenon and psychic powers,
you know, in in in all the

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traditions right just about. And you
know, chigung i can tell you from

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personal experience. You know, when
I was doing it, I used to

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do a lot more like chiegung,
let's say, because I did martial arts

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back many years ago. And I
would do like a regular workout, and

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then I would do something that was
kind of a mixture of yoga and chigung

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and I would do like C five
sequences during that that practice. And you

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know, a lot of times,
you know, either when I let let

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got out of the gym, or
when I was driving home, or when

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I drove home and step out of
the car, there was you know,

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a C five event taking place.
So they and actually I know certain people

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who branched off from Mission Rama.
They do events in Mount Shasta every year

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and one of the main things that
they do during the day is chiegung.

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So they teach and practice chigung as
a way to be able to help facilitate

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contact and ce fives. So I
think that those practices are very practical and

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that there is a correlation between you
know, what I would call priming the

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antenna not only for contact but for
other experiences. I had actually written a

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short piece I shared with one of
my colleagues privately, UH about you know,

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yoga and chigung and actually utilizing that
for contact and again priming the antenna.

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And I will say, although I
see the correlation there and I think

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that they are connected, I'll also
say, and you know there's things like,

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you know, chigung also has non
local aspects. So even though we

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think about you know, channeling chi
through our body and then using that for

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you know, enhancing your own psychic
potentials or whatever it may be, you

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know, there's also you know,
chigung healing at a distance where they're you

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know, they're people ten thousand feet
away receive a chigung healing and there's some

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kind of effect, and you know, a Claude Swanson wrote some like heavy

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duty, like textbook style books on
any kind of energy work you can think

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of, and all that stuff is
in his his volumes. I forget the

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the names of these volumes, but
Claude Swanson, he's got a few interviews

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on YouTube. He might have presented
at s S. And again I think

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that you know, you're kind of
when you're talking about that kind of stuff,

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you're going in the right direction.
I do think that there's something even

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more fundamental to consciousness. Even though
that's a pathway for for helping to better

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utilize consciousness, just like you know, meditation might be. You know,

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you can say meditation is one way, you know, chigung tai chi yoga

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and those things are kind of they're
very similar, but they're more physical.

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So I think those are all different
pathways that are. You know, you're

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you're, like we said, priming
the antenna for all kinds of you know,

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contact modalities. But I just I
just feel like, honestly, we're

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it's all gonna end up being connected. I think we're going to find out

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things like quantum entanglement aren't part of
it. You know, the quantum wave

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theory might be part of it.
You know, it's funny how the quantum

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theories are like sound a little bit
more woo than anything, but they actually

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are based on science theoretical at this
point, which most science is. But

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anyway, so I guess I feel
like when we're talking about you know,

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material versus non material, maybe that
non material is actually like you said,

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waves, you know that we're just
not seeing, we're not able to precede

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them, but they are physical waves
that exist and it's connecting us to something

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far far away. Or maybe they're
not that far away who knows, right,

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and maybe yeah, they be the
way in which we conceive of it

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from you know, you mentioned earlier, James, the word measurement from from

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from these sort of qualitative or quantitative
approaches, like you know, looking at

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things like distance or time or mass. You know, these are things that

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we have applied to the world around
us, but it's not perhaps those things

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aren't fundamental. You know that,
you know if you're familiar and I know

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I shared this with you recently,
Deb and I'm actually working my way through

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it now, so it's still new
to me. But the work of Bernardo

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castrob who's talked about who talks about
analytic idealism, which essentially says that I

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can kind of break down the premise
of it, but that's the our experience

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of the world isn't really the world
itself. And of course Donald Hoffman,

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I know you guys are familiar with
him and kind of the the way that

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he explains that the way that you
that we all kind of interact with the

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world is just is similar to the
way that we interact with icons on our

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desktop. So essentially, you know, the Castrip used the analogy of like

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you're a pilot and a cockpit,
and you have in front of you this

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dashboard of dials that represent what's happening
out in the air around the aircraft,

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you know, so you can you
can literally fly the airplane just by looking

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00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:28.720
at those dials. They they aren't
the actual air around you, but they

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allow you to fly the aircraft,
and you can you can fly by instrumentation

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alone. So he's using that analogy
to say that that's exactly what our lived

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experiences we are. We are operating
in reality through the set of dials.

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We're not experiencing reality itself. We're
experiencing it through the through these intermediary sort

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of dials and measurements. So that
kind of hints that there being something uh

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at the root of it, or
stranger than than that. You know that

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we just aren't, we aren't primed
to perceive. But but perhaps you know,

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things like meditation, these other practices
allow us to, I guess better

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tap into that because essentially kind of
what you're doing, think about it,

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and James, you're you know,
obviously will more versus this than I am.

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But by practicing meditation, you are, in a way trying to separate

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yourself from the dials of perception that
you normally operate in, and so that

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may be the key kind of to
tap into what's at least get closer to

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what that base reality might might be. Can I just say, I think

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that that's a great way of maybe
describing simulation theory, you know, That's

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that's what I think that's about.
Ultimately, Yeah, it could be.

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It could be all right, because
it could be that you're yeah, I

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mean, from the standpoint of the
the dials you know, are just sort

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of given to us by the simulators, right. But the other way to

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look at it is that we are
kind of co creating it like ourselves.

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So that matter and experience as we
know it, you know, which experience

356
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of anything is something that really is
derivative of consciousness, not the other way

357
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around. Right. So we're still
struggling by in researching consciousness to try to

358
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figure out how it emerges through the
material phenomena in the brain, and we

359
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really can't figure that out, and
so we're hitting a dead end there.

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And maybe it's because that's not actually
how it works. The brain may be

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an epiphenomenon of mind, so it
may flow the other direction. Yeah,

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And I don't know. I don't
know if it was John Wheeler or so

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that somebody had the terminology the participatory
universe. I don't want to call me

364
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for some reason, I'm thinking John
Wheeler might not be you know, who

365
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was at Princeton who had the pairs
lab, you know, researching the random

366
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number of generators and our influence on
basically the material through mind and if your

367
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lack of a better term, but
what you're talking about with you know,

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the perception of reality actually in Buddhist
practice, you know, vipasana ah is

369
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uh they call it insight practice and
insight training or or it's one of the

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pillars called, you know, wisdom
training. And you know, part of

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that is you're you're literally destructing reality. And it's not something that you're destructing

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or deconstructing, it's it's your observation
of it. That's that's the result of

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what happens when when you're doing the
practice as an almost like an aftermath is

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the deconstruction of reality by your observation, you know, getting you know,

375
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just literally observing reality on finer and
finer and finer and finer levels until you

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gain insight into you know, even
things that you're talking about. Well,

377
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and I want to pull this back
a little bit to science. There are

378
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some researchers that are studying how we
turn our genes on and off with our

379
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experiences, with our encounters in reality. So there is again another physical scientific

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indicator of the same sort of idea, right that basically, you know,

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certain things you eat will activate some
things, and certain things you experience may

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you know, shut off some genes. James is the one who taught me

383
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that you should eat fish oil.
Yeah, I mean, you know there's

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there's there's actual uh you knowlience behind
you know, consuming fish oil will will

385
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you know, turn on and off
different gene expressions, you know, So

386
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imagine what you know, thousands of
hours of meditation practice or chigung practice you

387
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know, might do. And again, even if you want to talk about

388
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the immaterial aspect of the you know, unmaterial uh seemingly things we can't see,

389
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like consciousness that you know, or
again if we're looking at it as

390
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something that's visible or not and chi
and you know, prana could have effects

391
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on our DNA and our gene expressions
and turning on and off codons or whatever.

392
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Yeah, I think that's that stuff
is definitely like the science of the

393
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future, right, both consciousness and
and things like that. The DNA,

394
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I think we're we're only just coming
to studies like that. And it's interesting

395
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because it makes me think of what
you said, Nathan. It's like,

396
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what if our consciousness is playing with
the dials and the dials are our DNA?

397
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Right, So where do you think
the consciousness initially comes from? And

398
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that's where it leads me to think
about people who have near deethic experiences and

399
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remote viewing experiences. They're going somewhere
else, So where is that somewhere else?

400
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Where do you think that is?
Guys? Where do you think this

401
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is from? Yeah? I mean
I struggle with that, right, it

402
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.719
is because it is kind of a
it is a I mean, it's it's

403
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a it's a question that we may
not be well equipped to answer. Right.

404
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So, you know, coming back
to something that James said about about

405
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the technology, you know, it's
it's possible that you know, kind of

406
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advanced states of consciousness their manifestations in
our perceived world look like technology. You

407
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know. So so what we were
what we would call oh that's technology,

408
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:17.639
is really just a higher degree of
fidelity and control over consciousness itself that that

409
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:24.840
we aren't really quite well equipped to
to to do. And it may be

410
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.039
that, you know, maybe the
bodies that we have and the material world

411
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.880
that we occupy is kind of a
I don't know, a barrier to being

412
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:37.199
able to exercise that or explore that
in a way that you know, would

413
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.719
be more meaningful. Maybe other non
human intelligences are are are better at doing

414
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.280
this or have been have been exploring
these issues for a lot longer, and

415
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.440
have you know, have have advanced
their understanding to where that they the barrier

416
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:52.079
between what we would call material and
consciousness, Like maybe that's completely arbitrary.

417
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.920
You know, maybe we we have
literally just kind of divided these houses,

418
00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.000
but it's all the same house,
you know, so it's all the same

419
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.159
place. I think ultimately we're still
going to struggle with the fact, you

420
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.880
know, what you're hitting at here
dev is like where does it come from?

421
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:10.199
What is the root? What is
the source? Uh? You know,

422
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:15.119
we are our minds aren't good with
like really large quantities. We're not

423
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.519
good at infinity. You know,
we don't really do well with that.

424
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:22.480
We don't really do well with that
at all. And so you know,

425
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:27.519
I definitely struggle with you know kind
of what that means, uh, you

426
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.000
know what happened? You know,
we everyone will always ask the question our

427
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.039
in our current scientific understanding, you
know, what preceded the Big Bang?

428
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.320
You know, which is our current
you know, leading hypothesis to the universe.

429
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:40.679
But you know, we are kind
of stepping over that threshold. Right.

430
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:45.159
This gets too, I think,
to the notion of ideas and how

431
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:52.239
ideas really push our interpretations of what's
going on and expand our awareness in ways

432
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:58.519
that that are it's kind of unpredictable, but they also fashion the world that

433
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:01.360
we occupy, you know. So
you know, James, your experiences that

434
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:06.480
you've had throughout your life, I
would probably say it's a safe bet that

435
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:10.119
you've you've looked at them over the
course of your life with different perspective,

436
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.000
Like as you have grown and gained
no experience, you've gone back to those

437
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:20.440
prior experiences and go, Okay,
maybe it's maybe it's something totally different.

438
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.960
And and what I wonder is maybe
that that's the point, right, So

439
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:31.119
maybe it starts out for everyone as
like kind of on a relatable floor right

440
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:35.719
to some degree, And that's not
not true for everyone's experience. But we

441
00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:38.280
we we start with an experience that
we're that we have a correlate too,

442
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:44.039
and then as we as we change
that that the correlates changed as well,

443
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.679
And maybe that's part of the process. Like it's it's supposed to change.

444
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:54.239
It's supposed to not be a static
interpretation of what's going on. I feel

445
00:41:54.280 --> 00:42:02.800
like it. The experiences that I
have had are almost like guiding post to

446
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:08.360
help me broaden the discussion with other
people. Like some of the things that

447
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:15.039
I have had happen all through my
life, you know, probably will just

448
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:22.199
help me educate other people with possibilities, almost like they were purposeful. And

449
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:27.840
maybe maybe that post to the control
theory could be. But it also influences

450
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.320
you, right, Debs. When
you when you share those experiences right that

451
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:37.480
are strongly felt by yourself, and
then others willingly share their experiences with you,

452
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.039
you are changed as well. Right, So it becomes this kind of

453
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.239
catalyst for change generally. You know, it's not that those become things that

454
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:50.079
never change. And you know,
it leads me to this question for you,

455
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:58.960
James, what do you think of
the concept of global consciousness, the

456
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:08.159
shared consciousness, collective consciousness, I
think that that may that I think it

457
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:15.800
may be a thing. So there's
a lot of ways to look at that.

458
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:20.800
Because you know, even if you're
if you're having say like a UFO

459
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:28.840
encounter, right, there's especially with
C five or other types of very close

460
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:35.960
encounters, you there seems to be
a you know, a consciousness connection between

461
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:40.760
yourself and and UFO intelligence, you
know, whether that's facilitated by the technology

462
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:46.880
or not. So that I mean
that takes it to an even you know,

463
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:54.840
broader level, right is it Is
it just a collective consciousness within without

464
00:43:54.960 --> 00:44:04.960
you know Earth or you know,
are certain levels of intelligences or all intelligences

465
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:14.039
able to connect in some way in
that way? You know, because again

466
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:19.119
there's you know, usually if you
think of like collective consciousness, it's thought

467
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:23.119
about as like the human unconscious collective. You know, what if it if

468
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:30.760
it goes even broader than that,
and it's you know, the vast intelligences

469
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:37.039
that say are up to a certain
level of intelligence go ranging to another.

470
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:43.639
You know, it's I would say, I probably think of it differently now.

471
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:51.039
And again when you begin to talk
about consciousness and then you get into

472
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:59.320
levels of differentiation, it becomes difficult, right, because yeah, I have

473
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.880
to say I can envisioning basically like
and I've spoken to Nathan a little bit

474
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:08.159
about this at some point, just
like the orbs being like little nodes on

475
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.800
a big web of consciousness that's connected, you know. And that's why I

476
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.920
brought up because he was talking about
how you change each other, right,

477
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:21.280
you change you judge's consciousness, and
we talked earlier about how that could even

478
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:25.199
change you genetically, and just you
know, we keep hearing about the orbs.

479
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:30.760
We keep hearing there all over the
place. We hear about orbs that

480
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:35.000
are you know, seem to be
symbolic of, you know, people who

481
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:38.440
have passed away. In other words, that's like the little embodiment of their

482
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:45.159
consciousness perhaps, and which makes sense
in the sense that we can see that

483
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.079
consciousness might have something to do with
the energy that's inside of us, So

484
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.519
it makes sense that it would be
something like energy. But I can just

485
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:57.280
sort of imagine it being, you
know, like just all over the place,

486
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.760
little nodes that we're and when you're
doing C five, perhaps you're just

487
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:07.559
triggering nodes, you know what I
mean? Does that make sense? Yeah?

488
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:10.920
Yeah, for sure. You're talking
on like a Alex Gray level of

489
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:19.039
art where he's like envisioning, envisioning
the kind of energetic the energetics or you

490
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:23.119
know, again what we would call
unmaterial or immaterial. Yeah. I mean

491
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:30.840
again, if you're if if consciousness
is fundamental and somehow interwoven into the fabric

492
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:36.079
of everything, uh, there would
be some pathway, right m h.

493
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:42.679
And it's interesting because people with near
death experience described like being pulled back,

494
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.880
click off onto that pathway, you
know, like through a tunnel, you

495
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.639
know, back to somewhere, which
is the place that I'm still interested in

496
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:57.280
that somewhere. And you know,
you hear about other people who have basically

497
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:01.320
remote view to a place where there's
lots of orbs, and mediums talk about

498
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:07.480
lots of orbs and these little palls
of energy. So I just I really

499
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.000
sense there's something to that. I
think there's something we just don't understand it

500
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.639
because you know, we're still trying
to figure all this out. I think

501
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.840
there might be something to that concept. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean

502
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:24.119
I love the ideas, and you
know, when you're just we're just saying,

503
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:27.880
maybe think about light itself. You
know, how we think of light

504
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:31.119
as a as a particle, a
photon of light, but it's all light,

505
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:36.760
you know, it's all so these
orbs are there, it's like there's

506
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:42.880
this there's this distinction but also connection, uh quality to them as well.

507
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.760
You know, we we It's funny
how a perception works, right when we

508
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:51.039
see things like that, we think
that they are distinct. You know,

509
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:57.519
we think that because they're bright and
they're around spherical that they kind of only

510
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.440
are there, right, they only
occupy that one point. But you know,

511
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:05.760
that could literally be completely wrong.
You know. It could be like

512
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:10.960
almost like if you were to think
about a sheet, right, and underneath

513
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.480
that sheet there's you know, a
child, and then there's a hole in

514
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:20.840
the sheet, you know, and
they're sticking their finger through the hole,

515
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:22.679
like you're just going to see the
finger, but there's a whole child there,

516
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:27.800
you know, underneath all of that, and so maybe that is what

517
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.239
is happening. We're just it's just
that little bit that we're really perceiving.

518
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:37.760
Well. It's also interesting that,
you know, during this one out of

519
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.960
body experience I had, and it
could be other out of body experiences I

520
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:49.840
had as well, but this in
particular one, it was actually the first

521
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:55.440
time I ever heard about yoga Nindra, and I was like, oh my

522
00:48:55.639 --> 00:49:00.760
let me, let me actually just
try this, right, And so there

523
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:07.239
was some video and I watched it
like two or three times and then did

524
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:14.079
a kind of version of yoga Nindra, which is kind of like a form

525
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:21.840
of very RESTful yoga. But it's
part of the practice is to be more

526
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.440
aware when you're even in the sleeping
state, that your consciousness is almost aware

527
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.400
still as well. And you know, when I I didn't know what to

528
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:35.239
expect or you know, honestly,
I wasn't expecting anything to really happen.

529
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:42.320
And as soon as I could assume
right that my body fell asleep, I

530
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.280
just remember, like you know,
doing the practice, and then all of

531
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:50.119
a sudden, I'm just a point
of awareness, right, so like an

532
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:54.920
orb. I couldn't see myself from
that point. I was looking outward from

533
00:49:54.920 --> 00:50:00.199
that point, but I was just
a point of awareness, like literally just

534
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:05.519
floating above my head, laying down
and looking straight ahead of me. And

535
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:09.039
I was just a point of awareness
that was there for the entire time that

536
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:16.280
was I was asleep, and it
was it was this weird perception of reality

537
00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:21.920
and it was like almost like a
time lapse. It was it was very

538
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:29.400
you know, surreal and lucid.
It was very It's it's hard to describe.

539
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:32.239
I guess, you know, it
felt like I was, you know,

540
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:36.679
in I guess you can say in
a point of being astral or something.

541
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:40.320
And these are just words I'm using
to try to describe something that's almost

542
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:47.280
indescribable from our current point of you
know, understanding. But I was this

543
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:52.280
point of awareness, just looking,
and I guess you can say at that

544
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:55.639
point of awareness could have been like
an energetic orb if somebody else were to

545
00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:00.639
see it or something. M M
right, And you know, I better

546
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:05.599
say it. We can tie in
also the Acasta field. I better say

547
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:09.599
it because Akashi Cryst will be mad
if I don't mention it. And that

548
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:15.760
might be where you were. You
know, we don't know enough to say

549
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:21.880
exactly what's going on with that other
level, and that could be the very

550
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:25.159
definition of the other dimensions. You
know, we don't know, and I

551
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:28.760
wish we did, do you know, mar James, can you tell us

552
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:32.199
more well? I mean, one
thing that they say about that is like

553
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:42.480
the acacak field is everywhere, right, every every the entire universe is folded

554
00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:46.639
within every fabric of it, like
a quantum hologram. I know, you

555
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:51.599
know doctor edgar Mitchell has talked about
that and other people, but that you

556
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:55.639
know, the conscious quantum hologram is
the idea that the entirety of everything is

557
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:02.719
folded within every part of itself,
you know, and we're just expressions of

558
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:07.679
that. Mm hmm. Yeah.
So that's that's the secret. Actually,

559
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:09.719
say, if you want to know
the secret to everything, I'll tell you

560
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:15.679
now. The secret to the universe
is love. There you go, Okay,

561
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:22.840
I was I was thinking you were
going to say forty two. Yeah,

562
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:27.599
love and forty two for those that
you know are dorky like me,

563
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.559
I know that means okay. So
I before we wrap it up, because

564
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:35.480
I do want to be mindful of
your time, I just want to get

565
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:38.760
to, you know, the thing
that is at the heart of our community.

566
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:43.599
Of course, a little bit more
on the UFOs. You and I

567
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:51.199
have spoken a bit about what the
communication is that we're getting when we try

568
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.559
to communicate, when we reach out
with our consciousness. We see five with

569
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:59.719
meditation, with becoming antennas. You
know, however you want to put it,

570
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:02.079
What is it that we're getting back? What is the impression we're getting

571
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:08.480
back. Are we talking about like
contact specifically? Yes? Or okay?

572
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:20.519
So that's very This is a very
difficult thing to discuss because it's so subjective

573
00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:27.119
and we have all these filters and
and my kind of point of view now

574
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:34.599
is that we have very flawed interpretations. And I don't mean that in a

575
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.239
negative way, but if you just
think of it from a logical perspective,

576
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:45.760
you know, there's some other form
of intelligence that's interacting with us, and

577
00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:54.199
we're trying to to kind of make
sense of these impressions or downloads or even

578
00:53:54.239 --> 00:54:01.519
communications that we receive from an intelligence
that we have no familiarity with. We

579
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:08.440
have no point of reference other than
that interaction itself, So that interaction of

580
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:16.039
itself is our point of reference.
And you know, I think that you

581
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:23.719
know, we you can have all
these impressions and what that impression means to

582
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:29.960
you. You know, I'm not
sure if that is the intended communication from

583
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:32.679
what the phenomenon is trying to communicate, or just how we're interpreting it.

584
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:39.199
I mean, there there are some
communications that I or impressions that I think

585
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.039
come through very direct and strongly,
but you know, I don't know how

586
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:52.440
well we're wired to have, you
know, this kind of like direct communication.

587
00:54:52.000 --> 00:55:00.480
So maybe all this contact over the
years is an evolutionary process of getting

588
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:05.360
clearer and clear on some of the
communications. Possibly. I mean, you

589
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:13.679
think in advanced intelligence like that would
just be able to directly communicate as clearly

590
00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:16.039
as it wanted to, and it
very well may be able to do that,

591
00:55:17.599 --> 00:55:22.440
but you know, maybe we're not
as as greatly equipped for that.

592
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:30.400
Maybe that's not even the intention of
the phenomenon, right, So I think

593
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:35.480
that's something that we have to kind
of look more into and try to understand.

594
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:37.800
I mean, because you know,
during one of my contact experiences,

595
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:46.039
there was a direct thing saying come
outside, and as soon as I had

596
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:55.000
heard that in my mind and in
my body, I instantly knew the whole

597
00:55:55.039 --> 00:56:01.360
thing of everything that was going on
in that content encounter, Right. I

598
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:06.000
knew I was going to go outside
and there was going to be a UFO

599
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:12.239
out there, and there was going
to be this contact event. And maybe

600
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.840
at that point I was just because
it was the day after I had something

601
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:22.559
akin to an NDE, and maybe
because it was that close to an event

602
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:27.599
like that that I was clear enough
to just receive an entire download with everything,

603
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:32.079
and then you know afterwards that subtly, you know, lessened a bit.

604
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:37.519
So where I have impressions now,
they're not as crazy direct as that

605
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:42.400
one, or is there is there
something more to it? I you know,

606
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:47.400
I think that this is precisely why
you know C five and contact work

607
00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:52.320
is so important, because you know, I think we're only at the very

608
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:59.440
beginning of a kind of research field
and to proactive contact and communication with non

609
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:04.880
human until eligence and UFOs in a
coherent manner. I hope we get there.

610
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.360
I hope we get there in a
peaceful way, because you know,

611
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:13.760
we're all concerned about things that we're
seeing about baiting and exploitation right now,

612
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:19.920
and obviously we don't want to agitate
the phenomenon, of course, so I

613
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:22.960
wanted to say that, you know, just if you get a chance to

614
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:28.000
see I did talk to someone who
really went into a deep dive on how

615
00:57:28.039 --> 00:57:32.519
difficult it would be to communicate.
It was to ask an alien project.

616
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.880
They did a great video on YouTube
and where it was like breaking down all

617
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:45.239
the different barriers that we would have
to overcome and potential pitfalls for communication.

618
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:51.280
So what you were describing kind of, you know, the impressions. I

619
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.599
was thinking, I think we have
to rely on some of our innate abilities,

620
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:59.719
which is where we go a little
boo, right. I was thinking

621
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:04.480
all those experiences when I was younger, which by the way, involved ghosts

622
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:10.480
and going to haunted houses. I've
really learned to detect where I might have

623
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:16.079
some more ability, okay, which
tends to be more sensory for me.

624
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:21.880
So it's, you know, very
much something I would feel, not something

625
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:25.800
I would see. And this is
something I want to talk to Priscilla about

626
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:30.400
one day too. I think that
you really have to rely on your own

627
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:36.639
personal ability. Like, so where
is your strength? Is it auditory visual

628
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.920
for me? Yeah, like that's
what I think. You're completely can I'll

629
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:46.679
tell you right now, it's like
a million kinesthetic. That's that's why I

630
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:52.639
made a video called Meta Contact.
You know, Meta m E T T

631
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:57.840
A contact because for me, you
know, rather than doing the CE five

632
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:02.519
protocols and remote viewing visualizing, although
you can use that on the side and

633
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:08.000
it's helpful for me, I just
get into a state of gratitude and connectedness

634
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:13.639
and that feeling of that and that
feeling of connectedness and for me, that's

635
00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:22.559
just contact is way more direct and
I get more impressions that way. Yeah,

636
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:25.679
And I'll tell you at some other
time about how I use it for

637
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.280
experiences, but it's definitely again,
I know what my skill base is,

638
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:37.760
so I use that. Yeah,
I love that. Yeah, I love

639
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:39.559
too. Like So I'm kind of
laughing inside when we're talking about communication,

640
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:43.719
because you know, if you've ever
been in a relationship with anyone, you

641
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.760
can point to plenty of examples where
communication has happened, but understanding is not

642
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:52.960
right. So I can point to
a lot of examples like that, you

643
00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:57.800
know, almost on a daily basis, and that just shows how hard it

644
00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:00.960
is, even with beings that are
on a similar, you know, on

645
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:07.079
a similar and very closely connected conscious
level, you know. So the fact

646
01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:12.079
that we would want to have a
communication and an understanding with a non human

647
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:15.159
intelligence, I think there are there's
some pretty extreme hurdles however, And you

648
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:20.400
know, XO and I talked about
this in episode two of Liminal Frames.

649
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:25.079
But the fact that so many of
the stories that you hear about interactions with

650
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.079
with non human intelligence, that the
fact that communication is happening at all tells

651
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:36.840
you something and is to me an
indication of what is actually more fundamental.

652
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:44.599
So there there must be something more
fundamental than our our lived experience in the

653
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:52.440
world on Earth that is shared across
intelligence in the universe, you know,

654
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:57.119
so that there must be a deeper
language. In other words, Well,

655
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:02.679
and that's the entire premise of Sea
five. And so you know, I'm

656
01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:07.960
gonna have to quote doctor Reer here
because he's the one who had has repeated

657
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:13.960
this so many times. Is that, you know, the ability to be

658
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:20.000
aware and awake is why SEE five
works. And he's basically saying, that's

659
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.960
the universal language, is consciousness.
And again, you know, not every

660
01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:29.280
C five is going to happen like
this, but there's some you know,

661
01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:37.039
contact experiences and close encounters where you
know, you know, just through the

662
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.119
interaction you see the fault of or
the failures of language when you have that

663
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:50.440
kind of direct connection that again is
you can only it's it's very experiential.

664
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:55.239
So for me to try to describe
it and in language is almost you know,

665
01:01:55.360 --> 01:02:00.719
defeating what it actually is. I
couldn't, I could never and it

666
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:06.159
can never. Yeah, I think
that's what I meant. It's it based

667
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:10.599
it's based on each individual's own abilities
essentially, and it's it's I need to

668
01:02:10.599 --> 01:02:16.599
point this out. Some people get
a very clear auditory message. Yeah I

669
01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:22.840
am. I have gotten one.
Whether or not that was related to a

670
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:25.840
piece, I don't know, but
that has happened once. Yeah, I'll

671
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:30.320
tell you just a really funny story
because it's the audit, you know,

672
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:35.719
the auditory. So primarily I'm very
kinesthetic, but I do you know,

673
01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:40.039
during C five it's almost like they're
teaching you different modalities, and it's it's

674
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:44.400
it's it's that's a whole other kind
of thing. Is especially if you're working

675
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:49.119
within a group. Uh, the
UFO phenomena interacts with you in different ways

676
01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:52.679
and it's almost like teaching you different
things. And that kind of gets into

677
01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:57.000
Valet's thing a little. Although Valets
would not tell you to do C five

678
01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:01.760
probably. But one day I was
doing a CE five with my friend Dave

679
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:08.039
and I heard I heard a name
and I have it written down somewhere.

680
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:12.599
I don't have it with me right
now, but I heard a name and

681
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:16.800
it was like very clear that I
had this name and I heard the name

682
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.920
in my mind. So I'm like, that's that's weird. I you know,

683
01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:27.800
maybe that's just my mind kind of
like making not making something up.

684
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:31.159
Maybe that's something that's just I was
doing my meditation CE five, and that's

685
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:36.800
just something my mind, you know, regurgitated. So but I wrote it

686
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:40.960
down, and after we finished the
meditation everything, I told my friend David,

687
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:45.239
I said, hey, this is
such and such happened, and he

688
01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:46.000
said, oh, you know,
why don't you look it up? I

689
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:49.639
said, yeah, that's a good
idea. So I went on Google and

690
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:53.280
I looked up the name, and
Okay, this could be a synchronicity,

691
01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:59.280
and it can be just a pure
dumb coincidence or could actually be pointed to

692
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:02.760
something. And that's that. I
looked up whatever this name was, and

693
01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:08.719
it was a name of a random
comic from like the nineteen forties that I

694
01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.519
had obviously never heard of. It
was not popular or well known or anything,

695
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:18.639
and it was it was a comic
about an extraterrestrial being. So I

696
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:24.519
and again this and it was never
one I've heard about after or before.

697
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:27.880
It was like some kind of random, I don't want to say, lame

698
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:31.079
comic, but it was a kind
of like I've never heard of it before

699
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:39.880
since and and I looked it up
and it was a comic about et and

700
01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:41.920
I was like, what, you
know, I was like, you know,

701
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:45.679
Epiphany, kind of like excited because
what are the odds of that,

702
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.880
right, you know? And it
was I've never heard that name before and

703
01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:56.400
I had never seen that comic before, so again, high strangeness, right,

704
01:04:57.239 --> 01:05:00.239
And it was often auditory thing,
and I'm usually not or auditory person,

705
01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:04.599
but I received an auditory kind of
impression. I went with it,

706
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:09.000
and I was just like, I
don't know what to make of that.

707
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:14.679
And we did have you know,
orbs in the sky that night. Wow.

708
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.599
Yeah. And I will say that, you know, in meditation,

709
01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:23.599
for those who are trying to explore
and to get closer to this concept,

710
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:30.119
I have had the weirdest experiences with
meditation. I've gotten some really strange messages.

711
01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:34.760
I've been pulled places that I would
not have imagined, you know,

712
01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:41.119
but you know, I couldn't I
couldn't begin to say what that is or

713
01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:44.840
what that's about. So one day, you know, of course, I

714
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.159
hope we unlock all those mysteries.
In the meantime, I am so glad

715
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:53.679
you came, James, and I
really want another time for us to sit

716
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:59.039
down and figure out some things that
I want to know, like light entities.

717
01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:01.800
We're going to have to talk about
that. You know, what you

718
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:05.079
think is your go ahead? Well, no, I was gonna say,

719
01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:09.599
And you know, it just came
to my mind. You know. The

720
01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:13.440
funny thing about that story I told
you too, now that I'm thinking about

721
01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:17.559
it, is you know, part
of that could be seen as you know,

722
01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:24.960
either the phenomenon communicated that to me
or is that something I intuited about

723
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:29.920
what you know, the intelligence I
was interacting with, right, just like

724
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:35.599
I had spoken to Eric Wargo and
he's written books about time loops and and

725
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:45.519
and also lucid dreaming and precognitive dreaming. And you know, I had a

726
01:06:45.559 --> 01:06:53.199
really intense contact experience that involved a
dream. And you know, one way

727
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:57.280
I looked at it was that was
the phenomenon kind of communicating with me in

728
01:06:57.320 --> 01:07:00.559
the dream state. But he actually
I showed him the video. I said,

729
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:02.880
what do you think of this since
you're kind of one of the guys

730
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:06.760
on the subject, and he said, it's that to me, it looks

731
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:12.519
like a pre cognition dream. Actually, So how do you you know which

732
01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:15.599
how do you determine which one I
was? And then how do you take

733
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:18.320
that apart or maybe is it possibly
both somehow? And so what I mean,

734
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:24.360
I think everything's going to end up
being connected. And honestly, if

735
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:28.719
you would put all the experiences in
a room together, I wouldn't be surprised

736
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.280
if if we had a lot of
pre cod dreams happening, a lot of

737
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:36.159
auditory messages happening, a lot of
sensory, a lot of visual you know,

738
01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:42.119
and a lot of feelings of you
know, connection to a different field,

739
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:45.159
so on and so forth. I
think I think ultimately we're going to

740
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:48.480
find out there's truth in everything that
we're looking at. I think there's something

741
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:53.760
that's a part of all the theories
that could be correct, which is why

742
01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:58.079
I don't really like to discount any
of them. I think there's an element

743
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:02.360
to all of it. But we
should be paying attention to agree. Yeah,

744
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:08.400
yeah, and the you know against
six Dopen as wells and Mission Rama

745
01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:13.519
in the eighteen seventies. We're using
automatic writing today. I mean that's not

746
01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.840
in the pop culture as much,
so we'd kind of say, oh,

747
01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:19.119
automatic writing, that's not the same
as remote viewing. But here this guy

748
01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:25.840
was doing automatic writing, which for
if people aren't familiar with it's you're basically

749
01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:32.239
just scribbling until you let energy flow
through you and it becomes coherent without your

750
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:39.880
conscious awareness. So something is writing, maybe your unconscious collective unconscious who knows,

751
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:46.319
and it was validated by very direct
UFO experiences. And then we know

752
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:51.880
yogis have been trying to perfect you
know, being at a different level,

753
01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:59.279
and they dedicate on their lives to
that. So I think we'll find a

754
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:03.960
lot of things really connected ultimately,
and I look forward to trying to solve

755
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:08.479
this mystery with you guys, because
that's all what I'm all about, truth,

756
01:09:09.079 --> 01:09:15.920
putting the puzzle pieces together, educating
people, getting people prepared. I'll

757
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:18.560
leave my questions about what you think
it is for another time, James.

758
01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:28.439
The conversation continues right again, Thank
you so much for coming. Before we

759
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:32.199
sign off, let's go ahead and
find out where we can reach you guys.

760
01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.560
Nathan, can you please tell us
where we can reach you? Sure?

761
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:38.520
Yeah, So the best way to
get a hold of me is on

762
01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:43.600
Twitter. I'm at a WAF soul
and then if you're interested in listening to

763
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:48.239
things that I say for whatever reason, you can find me on liminal Frames

764
01:09:48.680 --> 01:09:54.680
with XO Academian on his YouTube channel, which is XO Academian, and then

765
01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:00.560
on my other show, calling All
Beans with You, Deb and Jay and

766
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:04.239
Akasha, Chris and Kevin Flarius Kevin, where we talked to the community and

767
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:08.920
really try to get to the heart
of what's going on. And yeah,

768
01:10:08.920 --> 01:10:12.199
I'm open to any any and all
inquiries and questions. I'd love to talk

769
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:18.359
about this stuff, right and James, please tell us about your multiple efforts.

770
01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:29.560
Yeah, yeah, So for for
more UFO phenomenon related material, I

771
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:32.760
have engaged in the phenomenon, which
I mostly talk about, you know,

772
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:39.439
UFOs and consciousness and CE five and
that's on YouTube and it's on Twitter,

773
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:45.880
and it's on Spotify. And I
also have Meta Perspective, which talks more

774
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:53.039
about meditation and approaches to meditation and
consciousness, but it also is is getting

775
01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:59.720
into more again meta perspective, so
almost transcendental topics or how you know,

776
01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:08.399
beyond topics things of that nature.
And that's also on YouTube and Spotify and

777
01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:13.920
Twitter. Excellent, and I did
peek at that today just so you know.

778
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:20.520
Okay, everyone, you have a
good night. It was great talking

779
01:11:20.560 --> 01:11:26.560
to you. I'll look forward to
talking to you again. Bye. Take

780
01:11:26.600 --> 01:11:32.960
care. Thank you for joining me
as we work on shut in lights.

781
01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:40.880
I'm the phenomenon. I can be
reached at Study of UAP, s ufoconnector

782
01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:47.880
dot com, and the Calling All
Beings YouTube channel. I could be reached

783
01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:56.840
on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
Until next time, take care,