Hello listeners, and welcome to another Russell Magic branded episode here with your boy
Rocky Teeth, the gardener, Mark Gross and friends of the show. Just
incredible, mister Gardner, how you going, how's the weather and what's growing?
Well, I've got hot peppers, I've got sweet peppers, I have
let us. I have radishes which are actually looking really decent. Not as
good as my girlfriend's radishes, but that's not actually a code word. She
actually grows radishes. Guys. I've got tomatoes. I've got cherry tomatoes.
I have all kinds of things. I've got it both excuse me. I
have both a community garden and i have buckets out back of my place.
So I'm doing all kinds of gardening and I'm loving it and I'm really enjoying
it. I have a giant so that I'm about to cut down and dice
up and put in some salsa. But you know, most most salsa is
made by the best Latinos. And I think that we know a Latino that's
on the show today, and that would be mister p J. Palaco.
What's going on for always everybody trying to stay dry in Houston? Man,
We've been having some bipolar weather. It's just raining for twenty minutes and then
sunshine and then more raining than their storms for the lily. The last two
weeks, I've gone to the car Wars three times and it literally rained on
me that same anternoon every time it's been it's been actually similar in the East
coast. Yeah, very, it's all over the place, you know.
So yeah, I feel you on that one, man. But happy to
be back here on the show, guys. So it's good to hear from
you, good to hear your voices. Well, absolutely, bro So,
like you know, it's been schizophrenic weather down here today. Everything was coated
in pollen. We should be past pollen. My little silver car, Bob
the Bullet I named it after Bullet Bob Armstrong, course coated in yellow pollen.
It was just it was crazy. But anyway, so PJ, you
want to lead us off and talk about some stuff, and I think there's
something you need to get off chest. Yeah, you know, just really
quick. I just wanted to you know, this Mav was a good friend
of the shows and a friend of our of ours, friend of mine.
I was supposed to get some stuff out to him, which I did not
so I just wanted to let him know personally on air that I'd not forgotten.
It was my fault. I completely botched the deal, which basically means
I completely forgot about it. So I apologize and I will make good on
it. So MAV there you go. I'm sorry about that. We'll make
good all right. So today's topic is going to be lost storylines. There
are storylines that went nowhere and everybody just kind of scratched their head and said,
what so I know you were part of one. So PJ wytn't you
lead us off, buddy? Well, I mean there's so many great ones.
I mean, you know, you always in wrestling when you when you
start something, you always think like, wow, this is gonna be you
know, it says the opportunity to be something really great, and but one
I have and not a lot of people know this. This just it kind
of happened, you know, because of the nature of the business at the
time and what was going on in the wrestling world. And this is about
mid two thousands. I brought in Well, I was kind of a single
handed effort to bring Scott Hall to wrestle in ECW. It was kind of
like, you know, Scott had just kind of been let go from w
CW ors you know, contract was up, whatever. I know he'd been
going through some personal stuff, but you know, it was just a great
time to say, hey, you know, let's let's let's get you in
here. E CW was still even in two thousands, even though we were
going through financial difficulties, it was still a hot place, like as far
as the business went, like, you know, the actual storylines and attendance
and stuff that was doing well. Fan base was was hot. So Scott
came in and he worked with me. We had a one singles match in
Poughkeepsie, New York, which has a huge significance because that's the place where
Vince McMahon, you know, used to tape Monday Night Raw, you know,
and even Vince Senior used to take WW Superstars and Poughkeepsie in that building.
That was the building where him and one two three Kid where famously I
think Kid missed a dive and he almost killed himself, knocked himself out.
That was that building. You know, there's just there's just anyways that it
was. To me, it was like just kind of like a bucket list
thing. And and Paulie loved it. Scott loved it. I don't think
he understood what E c W was at the time, and the whole thing
was to get him back to do an entire program with him and myself basically,
you know, like I was the bastard son of the clique that I
was never really you know, mentioned or appreciated, and that was kind of
going to be the deal because realistically I was more of Scott Scott's frend than
anybody else's really, you know. But but anyways, it was just I
thought and Paul thought it was a great opportunity to kind of just further that
along, especially with Scott having such great you know, at that time,
you know, the nWo, even though it was a couple of years removed,
was still one of the hottest things in the business, you know,
so he still had all that all that stuff, you know, to to
bring to the table. So, you know, I just wish we would
have got a chance to do it, but unfortunately, a couple of months
later, ECW was no longer. So even if everything that went aligned,
I don't think we, you know, time wise, we could have pulled
it off. The way the business went, Well, my question for you
at that time. Is because Paul was in bed with Vince, so to
speak. Do you think that they would have brought anybody from WWE down to
work with you so for the storyline, if ECW stay in contact and stayed
financially stable. See, I don't even know, man, I don't think.
I know for a fact that Vince only knew E c W as far
as namesake. I know for a fact he did not understand the product.
I don't think he ever really watched the product. I could guarantee you he
didn't. It was just more of he knew ECW was a thing, and
he you know, he basically got a very rudimentary education on ECW, probably
a briefing prior to a meeting or something like that. This is what ECW
is, pal kind of a thing, But it never really got off the
ground floor with Vince as far as what it could be, as far as
an intellectual property, as far as you know what I mean, it was
it was always Paul Hayman's vision and and I think Paul made they kind of
did that for a reason to kind of like, you know, he'll always
have a spot in the game, so to speak, if he holds that
card close to the best. Well, I think that was that was a
brilliant move. But I saw, I'm going to bring up something that I
thought was like really really funny, and it was one of the worst storylines
of all time, and it had a finish. But it shouldn't have had
a finish. It should have just gone away. And that was Marc Henry
and May Young and the birth of the Hand. Yes, now that this
is you. Were you even in w W at that point or you?
I was not? I was Okay, I saw that from a distance.
Yes. See. The thing is it was a garbage storyline, and of
course you couldn't go anywhere with it, and nobody could believe that a woman
that old is going to be impregnated. I don't care if he's sexual,
chocolate or not. You're not going to be impregnated. Okay, your body
at some point shuts down, you go through menopause. We all know the
rules. Okay. But the fact that they didn't wait another month or two
when Rob was going to be a day before or day after April Fool's Day
to reveal it, it makes no sense that they just didn't have the vision
to say, okay, well, we can, we can unveil it at
this point and say it's a joke. Yeah, Instead they botched it.
So that's that's one of my because that there was no point to that whole
storyline. It was. It was a punishment for Mark Henry for some reason.
And there's about six or seven people I would never punish Mark Henry,
Kane undertaker, Paul Waite, that's about it. Like there's a lot of
people who will squash you like a bug. And you know all the stories
that that undertaker talks about, like Mark Henry picking up the tour bus overseas
and moving it on his back. Yeah, yeah, So why would you
punish that guy. I get the fact that he didn't go over the way
they wanted him to, but they gave him a really bad skill set.
They gave him a punch, slap, bodykick, body slam like. That's
that's why he didn't get over. That's why he never you know, became
what he was until the Hall of Pane and still it was. I don't
want to say too a little too late, because I do have a lot
of respect for Mark Henry and I think that he is somewhat of a locker
leader and a locker room leader, I should say, and I think that
he has a lot to give back to the business. And I really feel
that like he was just not approaching the right way. But that whole thing
with the hand, that was just the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my
life. It's close to Katie Vick, but it's not quite Katie Vick.
Ain't talk about rock. Why don't you take one? Well, I'm gonna
go. I'm gonna pivot a little way to a storyline, not necessarily one
that we didn't have it finished too because you know, creative or somebody walked
out or injury, but this one was actually due to a death, tragedy
struck And that was a storyline from nineteen ninety seven. This was a storyline
between Brian Pillman and Gods. The storyline took place in nineteen ninety seven and
was one of the more controversial and dramatic angles of that era. The feud
added a personal twist involving Terry Reynolds, who was the real life and on
screen ballet of Godas the storyline kicked off with Brian Pillman making new comments and
advances towards Marlina Pilman claimed he'd had past relationships with her and that's what started
and added the personal advantit animosity to the feud. They had a stipulation match
at SummerSlam ninety seven. They had a couple of matches, but then before
they could actually get the payoff to the storyline, tragedy struck and we lost
Pilman. I didn't realize how big of a deal it was when Pilman showed
up on WWTV, because I didn't learn til years later that he was,
you know, going in between companies, showing up on EASYWTV and ww and
that's a big deal. So for me growing up and then learning about it
later on, I realized how how much we really lost out on that talent,
and for both of these guys, that could have been a very good
payoff. So were either one of you? Weren't there either? Yeah in
ninety seven, PJ, were you? No? I was not, But
you still knew the guys, So did you have anything to add to that.
I had actually only met Brian in past and I didn't know him.
I was, I was, I was a huge fan. I don't know
why I assume all wrestlers know all wrestlers. I just yeah, I unfortunately
I was. But I'll tell you one thing. It's funny you say that
he was one of the reasons I loved the business, and he was like
one of my favorites as a mart when I was in market in high school,
you know, like Brian Pillman when he first came into WCW in like
eighty nine, ninety ninety one. That's when I graduated high school, right
before I went to wrestling camp. So I was a huge Brian Pillman fan.
So yeah, I only you know him so much. I wish I
would have got to know him, you know. So let me ask you
something, PJ. Do you think that just incredible versus loose cannon Brian Pillman.
You'd have to be You'd have to be the heal. Oh, we
sell out to ECW. Do you think you could sell out bigger than ECW
Arena? Oh? Of course, jeez, I mean we were. I
mean, you know again, it all depends. I mean, it's all
happenstance. But I remember, it's like anything else when the business is hot,
and it is hot right now. Even though you could argue with a
w's numbers at the at the gate it's it's very bad, but I mean,
I just can All I could say is when we were doing it as
ECW, we were we were selling three thousand tickets per event. I mean,
and I'm not trying. I mean, I know that doesn't that you
can't compare to a WWE or a w c W at the time, but
we were also running literably smaller venues, you know what I mean. We
weren't running twenty thousand seed venues. We were literally running gymnasiums which we probably
got for five or six hundred dollars on rental and selling you know, three
thousand tickets and stuffing fans in and which also made it look great on television,
you know what I mean. So I think that was the kind of
the charm of the whole thing. It made it feel underground, It felt
real, and and there was there was really something to that. Because it's
easy to go to a house show for WWE or a TV taping for WWE,
but ECW it was like it was something else to it, you know,
because it was almost like you're going to a productor you know, it's
like almost like you're as a fan, you're asked to do something you need
you. You're asked to kind of participate and partake in the madness, and
that's what kind of made ECW so cool. So it kind of all goes
hand in hand, you know, I get it. I just just kind
of curious because I believe that the two you could have definitely sold something we
did tickets. Man, Oh my god, that would have been a dream.
I mean, I I you know, I think for sure, but
I mean, but that's it. What I was trying to get at is
in two thousand and one, right before we closed up. No, I'll
go back June of two thousand, we did a heat wave and it was
myself and Tommy Dreamer. That was the show where the XPW guys showed up.
Yeah, and I remember we it was at the Grand Olympic Auditorium where
back in the day Pat Patterson Ray Stevens used to sell out that for the
territories. Back in the day, the Grand Olympic was like the Madison Square
Garden of LA back in those days. It's it's set about six thousand and
I remember Dreamer and I were the main event in the ladder match Stairway to
Hell. We sold out those six thousand seats. You know, so I
can only imagine what a guy like Pillman in the future, you know what
I mean, if you could kind of put what wrestling has become and you
know what I mean, I don't know, man, It just Sky's the
limit. You know, Sky would have been the limit for a lot of
them. And you could say that about you know, our VD Man or
a Van dam against against him as well. You know a lot of those
guys you could throw taboo in there against. You know, it would have
been amazing. I want to I want to sidebar real quick. You said
Ray Stevens, Ray the Crippler Stevens. I was a big fan of him
growing up. Now, Rock you don't know who this guy was. He
was a greasy looking little brawler with a one glove on and this guy would
beat people merciless in the rink, but he didn't actually hurt them. He
just made it look that good. He was the original Crippler before the falling
one Crispin Waugh. And this guy would have great matches, I mean,
just great matches. Did he tag with Adrian Adonis for a while he did?
Yeah, Well he's he's the reason the Shawn Michaels what we call the
flare and the Shawn Michaels bump. That was the Ray Stevens bump. Ray
Stevens came up with the flippy bump. Well on the Turnbuggles with his originals
calling card. Yes Stevens. Stevens, what was he five to ten to
two hundred pounds at most with a pot belly. But this guy would go
into the ring and he would make you believe that he was gonna hurt somebody
every son of a gun night that he was in there. He would just
do it. And I love Ray Stevens. So when I first started watching
wrestling in eighty four, some of the Coliseum stuff had come out, and
I would like, if I begged my dad and I was really good.
I got to, you know, rent some of that stuff, and I
would see Stevens and I would just like, like, this guy is so
good. He reminded me a lot of Blackjack Mulligan. Yeah. Similar.
He was just a small, a very small Blackjack Mulligan. But man his
his punishment the way he would he would choreograph it Rocky in the ring,
Yeah like he would. He would. He would twist your arm punch you
in the armpit, punch you in the teet, punch you in the neck,
punch you in the throat, like he built a story for what he
was doing. I love Ray Stevens, so I'm sorry I did that.
So Rock, what's your next? Your your your next? Forgotten storyline?
So I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna stick in ninety seven and
it's it's something that we never got an answer to. It's not necessarily a
payoff. But this happened at the ninety nine King of the Ring, the
Stone Cold ladder match versus Vince and Shane. Do you remember what happened at
the end of the match. I can say I do not well up,
so I do not. It was a ladder match. There was a briefcase
in it. Somebody raised the briefcase so Austin couldn't get it, causing him
the match. But we would never explained who raised the briefcase. There was
no payoff to it. Oh wow. And then it just like I said,
no payoff, nothing. It just kept on going with the story and
nothing came of it. So it's not something that people really talking about.
I don't think it's that popular, but like a storyline we didn't get because
it wasn't actually between two wrestlers that we were expecting about, which is something
that wasn't explained. So that was something that stuck out to me that I
found in my research. And then going on, I know, Michael this
one. We both had this one on our lists, and that was of
the GTV And on the very first instance that it showed, if you see
on the actual on the bottom bright left corner, it actually said g d
TV. Yes, yes, okay, so you already knew that I was
testing you, all right, go ahead and say that. So gd TV
was supposed to be gold Dost TV, and it was supposed to be like
reintroducing him to like do you remember And I hate to say this, and
I you know, it was a Vince Russo production. I know he's a
friend of yours, PJ. But it was GDTV val Venus at a year
and old next to the Big Show. Do you guys remember the scene?
Yeah? Do you know whe I'm going with this, PJ? No,
I don't, but go ahead. So it's it's filmed in black and white
and he's next to the Big Show and he looks over as they're urinating,
and he says, I thought they called you the Big Show. And then
the Big Show took his head and slammed it into the wall. Then they
had to match that night obviously of a Russo production. But what it comes
down to is that they were They changed it to GTV, and it was
supposed to be Vic Grimes, so the original and of course another venturer.
So he was going to be Key as a kilo of cocaine. That's what
they we all. He was supposed to tag with the Godfather, as I
mean, he attacked the Godfather, and it was supposed to be like supply
and demand or something like that. It look, I don't write this,
I just know it from history. Actually supplying the man was supposed to be
the Godfather in Valvenus, and that's they were going to get together because they
were going to go after Key at the same time at the same point.
So they did the gd TV and then it became GTV, and then when
Grimes got injured, they said there there there's no you know, point for
him to come back because all I could do is take insane bumps and he
wasn't that great in the ring. Now, can you testify to that and
tell me how good he was in the ring? I mean, I don't
know very much. He was very uh. And the look in wrestling,
it's it's kind of you know, it sucks that it has to be this
way, but unfortunately, why not maybe not? Unfortunately there's a reason everything
is the way it is. You know, you have to be well liked
by the people that you know. There were always gatekeepers in wrestling, and
I don't believe in gatekeepers in any industry, but in a way, was
there to protect what everybody had built, because you know what I mean,
in wrestling there has to be some kind of loyalty and some weird kind of
allegiance, alliances and allegiance because you know, it's a fake business, right,
it's not real. It's not like you could you know, in order
to hold your position, you just got to be really good and not be
defeated. That doesn't work it to you know what I mean, it's a
work. It's really much more like a bastardized version of Hollywood. Really,
we're writing scripts and we're acting it out in a physical manner, which I
hate to say that about wrestling, but it's reality. So you know,
I think that that part always has a part to play, But I think
Vic Grimes just never really was like, you know, I always made sure
that I was friendly with everybody. You had to respect the you know,
the boys, the talent, the promoters, the whole industry. You know,
you kind of had to pay your dues. And I understood that,
and everybody liked me. So that's why for me it wasn't hard to get
in. But a guy like Vic Grimes, he was just quiet. He
shunned everything in that way, which I mean he didn't do anything necessarily wrong
that would cause you know, like and in reality, like, you know,
did he what did he really do? Nothing? Just quiet. Maybe
people took that as being into himself and not wanting to you know what I
mean. Then jealousy takes over too, It's like, why is this guy
getting him? You know what I mean a break. I've been in the
business for twenty years. You get that kind of stuff, which is not
cool. So I think it's a lot of that. But he really was
not well known or even liked in the locker room, which I think has
a lot to do with the way he was perceived, which is unfair.
You know, to be quite honest, because he was a pretty good performer
in the ring, you know, as far as I could see. Interesting.
Interesting. I got a little bit more to add before we move on,
because for me, when this came out in ninety seven, I was
I was ten years old, so this was PG fourteen TV, So this
was big stuff for me, and I just want to give a little bit
more clearly understand, clearer understanding about what GTTV is to some of the listeners
who maybe weren't even born yet. So it was a storyline device that featured
hitting camera footage revealing personal and often controversial moments involving the superstars. Like you
mentioned, the one that we saw with vou Vida is a big show.
The two that I remember the most because one was romantic and then the other
one was comedy. Comedy one was Al Snow talking the Head backstage, hitting
camera in the locker room. He's just having conversations with head. To me
as a kid, that's funny. And then the one storyline that I actually
think got the most progression out of this was the relationship between Stephen McMahon.
Tests you got to see them backstage, you know, kissing and stuff,
you know, back in the dock and the docks wherever. So we got
to see that kind of unfold and that was something that we hadn't seen with
some of that backstage stuff that was that was new to the Attitude era.
So that was very cool for me as a as a young kid. Real
quick. As a sidebar, did you ever meet Andrew Martin? Pj Oh,
yeah, I worked with him unfortunately. Who how about stiff? Oh?
Boy was he stiff? Uh? Everything hurt? Every just looking at
him hurt Like he's such a he's such a nice dude, such a kind
soul. I really liked him as a person, but boy, just everything,
it just just everything was pain. Like I don't understand how somebody could
be that stiff. That's him and he wasn't meaning to be stiff, just
didn't have like you know, I could make it look like I knocked your
teeth out and you would barely feel my hand, you know, you wouldn't
know if you were hit and where he was the opposite, like he punched
you and you were like what the hell just happened? Like why? Why?
It's so hard? So I've always tried to figure that one out because
you know, they said that Vince saw him the next Diesel, they saw
the next Kevin Nash. But he's four inches shorter. Has absolutely and I'm
not speaking ill the dead. He just he had no charisma. He had
jack point nothing for charisma. No, No, he didn't. Unfortunately,
you know, he didn't. He was kind of you know, he was
a good looking dude, but he was kind of goofy. And it didn't
and I'm not saying that in the bad way, just his personality, like
I'm goofy too, Like if I'm Pete, like in the locker room,
I'm goofy. You know, I por create a different character. And then
I kind of got over where, you know, Test it was a little
bit harder for him, you know, because he was just you know,
you know, but he was a good dude. You know, I feel
bad for him, and he was a lot goal he dealt with a lot
of issues with depression and stuff, and you know, you know, you
always feel bad for somebody like that. But yeah, he definitely lacked in
that department for sure. Well you got to realize that rolls into a lost
storyline because he was supposed to be the boyfriend of Stephanee McMahon. But then
all of a sudden an affair happens and she's with Triple H. So what
do you guys think would have happened if Triple H never interjected himself or he
in China stayed together? I mean, DJ, you'd have more perspective on
this than anybody else. Yeah. I don't know, man, I just
you know, when it comes to when it came down to all of it.
First of all, I saw that. I mean, the China thing
was pretty obvious and out in the open for me, you know, just
again just being around seeing what I saw, sharing what we shared. You
know, I don't know, man, I just don't think Hunter at that
point was just destined to take the reins. It was just like for some
reason, man, it was like written in stone. I think he just
had that hyper focus in some weird way that this is going to be his
company, you know. I think he felt he was going to be working
with Vince for a very long time, and he did. I just don't
think anybody could have foreseen what was going to happen and what happened, you
know, and in some ways it was best for business. As famously,
they always say because in reality it was best for business and any think Hunter's
doing actually a great job. Unfortunately, it just took a lot of family
mess to to kind of clear all that up, which is wild if you
think about it, you know, the way it all went down. But
yeah, I mean it is still unfolding still, and it's gonna unfold still
for a long time. I still don't see Vincent. I still can't see,
and I mean it's all but written, but I still can't see Vince
McMahon in some way, not wanting to or trying to. I don't know.
Isn't that weird? Like you know, uh, do you know better
than we do? Bro? You know we do. It's wild, dude.
I mean Vince literally he was when we used to go backstage for TV
tapings before it was called Vince's office in the like there was like photocopy sheets
like all over the locker rooms, and Vince's office was called the Emperor's office.
So I mean he was literally the emperor of that ship. Like that's
he was the man. And now it's like he's you know what I mean,
it's just a couple of years, he's not even in the you know,
I mean, obviously. Man, I don't think his faculties are all
there at this point. I mean, I don't think they were ever there.
I think he lost his mind a long time ago. I mean,
you know, he's just a wild dude, and I think he lost his
stuff a long time ago. But yeah, I mean, you know,
it was bound to happen. I just wish it did. I kind of
wish it didn't happen this way, you know, because I think it also
does a disservice to his legacy because he did you know, he caused a
lot of bad for a lot of people. I know that, but he
also called bad things. We have to be honest with this. He's done
some bad things. Oh he's done some horrible things. He's done some horrible
things. But you know, he also was the you know, I don't
think wrestling would be what it is today if it wasn't prudent. So you
always wrestling. I kind of miss wrestling from nineteen eighty four, bro.
Yeah, I miss my territories. I miss like you know, wild Bill
Orwin, I miss Jake the Milk Van Milligan. You know, I miss
these guys. I know I know those and it was great times. You
know there's a great times, but I mean, would we have wrestledman,
You'll be a two night event, you know, in stadiums back to back,
you know, selling a hundred fifty thousand tickets in the weekend. You
know, it's it's wild. I mean, you never know. But you
know, at least look, at least it's in good hands. I mean,
at least the WWE now well is in good hands. You know.
It's just weird that it's not in the makeman's hands. You know, for
the first time ever, pro wrestling is out of the hands of like the
old timey promoters. It's actually like all now in television and you know,
real sports and like you know what I mean, it's like in corporate hands.
It's just wild. I never would have thought that, you know.
So I'm gonna throw one out here for you. This was a storyline that
died really fast because he jumped ship out of w w F and that was
Ultimate warriorsus the Undertaker. Oh oh wow, yes, to educate me on
that one. Uh, you know, Undertaker put the Ultimate Warrior in in
the casket. He didn't want to put over Mark Callaway, which I don't
know why you wouldn't want to put over the best big man ever. I
mean seriously, Like it's it's an argument between he and Kane. There's there's
no you know, and yeah, there's there's nobody else you could put in
that argument. But I don't think. I don't think. Then they took
him, and they didn't take I mean they didn't take him seriously, No,
Yeah, Undertaker took a lot of years, even after the Attitude era,
it took years and years of that my of like you know, the
Taker's still here by the way, you know what I mean. It's like
he is like time kind of was his ally in that way where he just
put in the most time and had the most iconic character, and with that
the myth grew, you know what I mean, and almost like it it
it made itself into its own existence, like you know what I mean,
It's like it wasn't even written, Like the Streak wasn't written. It just
kind of happened, you know what I mean, by accident, Like the
kind the building of the Undertaker really happened by accident. And he was like,
look, he's the top guy. So maybe like he goes into WRESTLEMANI
and he just kind of wins every time because he's he's going to be the
Undertaker. But we really don't have anything crazy for the Undertaker as far as
plans, so you know what I mean. It just kind of kept silently
building, which is great to his benefit, and then all of a sudden
you look back and it's like, oh, he's twenty and oh really okay,
you know what I mean, And it just kind of became something that
I don't think anybody could have planned, which is great. That's that's the
part of wrestling that is magic. It is those like little thing exactly,
you know what I mean. Seriously though, it's like those little things that
you could find in some basic storytelling that just happens that you're not really planning
for. You know, it's cool stuff. The best match of the Undertaker
never had Scott Hall at WrestleMania. Yeah, yeah, that would that would
have been the best match he ever had, not ever had, but I
think they would have put on a clinic. Yeah, yeah, for sure,
for sure. Scott was man. Scott was See. That's the thing
is Scott was big, but he's he always tried to work like he was
a smaller guy. You know what I mean, I don't think people give
Scott. I mean, Scott was a big dude. You know, he's
a very big dude, and that's that's a big guy, right, people
don't you know. You say it and it's like, yeah, but you
know taker's bigger or this guy's bigger. It's like, yeah, but dude,
guys like Scott Hall you don't see every day either. You know,
you don't go to the waffle house and see Scott Hall. You know,
gotcha, But you know in two seventy six seven, you know you don't
see that. I did tell you how I prank called him though, so
that was pretty awesome him and said vicious, which was pretty awesome. Oh
dude, I loved that. The way Sid was huffing and puffing. I
loved Sorry, Sid YOUDI if you're out there listening to myself, Yeah,
Sid, Sid, he's a good guy. But yeah, he said.
This is one thing I'll give about Sid is that when I was down in
Memphis living there for a long time, a lot of the people who were
like his son's age said that he was really good about giving back to the
community and giving back to people. So for you, Sid, good job.
Yeah, no, he was. He was always good like that.
Sid's a very good guy. That's one thing as a human being. He
was a very nice man and a very kind and giving man. You know.
He wasn't a jerk, you know, so a lot of people in
his tradition were. He was not. He was a nice man. We're
talking about the same Sid with the hairline temper. Yes, absolutely, yes,
all right, he was a good dude, at least the guy I
knew was good dude. I was good to you. But you're also one
hundred and fifty pounds stronger than me, so you know, I only weigh
one forty five. Topic. Now, let's get to let's get into some
brass tacks and baseball bats. Okay, guys, what are goofy storylines you
saw really disappear? Because we've been talking about this. I talked about like
I talked about him, Chucky and Rick Steiner. That went nowhere and that
served no absolute purpose whatsoever. And they did the whole thing to promote the
new Child's Play movie. But the fact is, Rick Steiner, why did
you pick Rick Steiner? It made no sense and it went nowhere. That's
kind of goofy, And I like honestly, what was that that that Goofball's
name that parodied j Jim Ross And Yeah, that guy needs to have his
face burned on a grill somewhere for what he I don't like that, dude.
Do you want to say why? No? I just I never liked
that he did that. Yeah, why clincher palette, p J. What
do you mean say why you don't like him? I did. I didn't
like the fact that he just was mean to do like. I didn't like
the fact that he was just like attacking j R. You know, because
to me, like JR is like all about you know, he's wrestling.
You know, if you don't like Jim Ross, it's like you don't like
pro wrestling, and you just kind of was like, I don't know,
I mean, it was a w W ploy. I get it, but
I just, you know, don't mess with you are kind of take it
personally. I feel like very agreeance with that. Do you believe that like
he points the finger at Russo and Russo points the finger at him. Who
do you believe was really behind it? Dense? I don't know. I
just think it's it's one of those things, dude. I honestly believe this.
It's just it all got carried on. It was all out of control.
Like even all the click stuff, all the stuff that was happening backstage
that we all pontificate nowadays and discuss and all this stuff. A lot of
it was just like just like adults acting like children, like just ribs and
being dicks to one another, excuse my language, just not being just not
being good humans. You know. A lot of that happened in wrestling,
and there was no reason for it. Just guys were jerks, you know,
and it was like that that. You know, if you were you
were a bully in those days, if you were a big star, you
could bully other people. And a lot of bullying happened in the business back
in the day, and that's really what would happened, you know, and
it's unfortunate, and you know, a lot of people couldn't even understand it
today. It's like, how could that happen? If I told you some
of the real stuff that ever happened to me, people would be like,
why did you just like file a lawsuit with w WA? Why did many
people file lawsuits? There was so much cruel stuff going on, hazing wise
and stuff in the early in the mid nineties. You know, it's just,
you know, just something that wouldn't be tolerated today, not even close.
But back then it was just like the way it was for everybody,
you know what I mean. So it's like, you know, what do
you do? What do you say? You don't say anything, you just
kind of go with it, right, And I think that's a lot of
what that is for real. You know, that's like this whole conversation reminds
me of an interview I saw with robout dan Dam when he was talking about
seem punk and he said like, yeah, seem punk is gonna start to
you know, seeing punk came to him. He's like, yeah, we're
gonna do like, you know, locker room meeting. And he's like,
you know, who the hell's c M Punk? Well, who the hell's
Rob van Damn? Really? Rob van Dam never struck me as anybody besides
a person who's given a title because of his skill set, which should have
been Saboo's title over and over again. And he never he had the chrism
of his stoner. Great, you're a stoner. I never saw in Rob
van dam what everybody else saw. He had a little bit of something.
But like when he talks trash about CM Punk, it's like he's had way
more longevity not wrestling than you did longevity wrestling, Right, Yeah, I
mean, you know, that's definitely a thing. And I could see both.
I could see both both ideals. I could see why Punk would say
what he says, and I can see why Rob would say what he says
about Punk. Because I could, I could see, I could take both.
I could take both sides and be and I can probably convince you I'm
right on either one, because it's like nobody's really wrong. It's just kind
of like a preference, you know, and uh, you know, and
I guess and but no, but I guess guys like Rob. I identify
with guys like Rob Moore because we were there for all of it. Like
I just feel like those extra five or six years that you have a guy
like see him Punk, where you literally started e c W and Rob was
e c W for a very long time. Let's I mean, that's that's
the truth. You can't deny that. You can't deny that he was a
special generational talent that very few people will ever retain. You know, that's
a less Man before he went undefeated. Yeah, yeah, no, no,
who was less? I don't know. I have no idea. Chris
Jericho really yeah yeah you no, you know, but anyways, yeah,
I mean, it is what it is, man, It is what it
is. So I think you already mentioned some other goofy things that or maybe
they may fall under goofy, but that was the birthday they handed from May
Young. The Katie Vic storyline. You have things that the face mcman kiss
my Ass Club. That one was kind of goofy. Terrible, terrible,
yeah, terrible, but one that I when I first saw it, I
was like, I don't know how they're gonna pull this off. But due
to real life, real life events, this storyline was canceled. And that
was the one in two thousand and seven, the death of mister McMahon.
So this one was, like I said, this one was canceled because this
one ran in June. Vis Man was appeared to be starting to lose his
mind a little bit, lose his marbles, and he was wandering around raw
and at the end of the show he steps into a limousine and it explodes.
What was it? Brian Kendrick smile at him and got fired. Well,
I guess well might not ever know that one. But this storyline was
actually canceled because of the real life events of the tragedy of the Crispin Wall
family. So this one they never got to see through. There was a
lot of media pushback on this one and the mixed reactions, and because of
what was going on, they just they just had to sweep it under the
rug. So but at death Angle on TV for the Boss, don't I
don't know how how they would have got to run that one. So that
one was just, like I said, that's gonna be a lost one on
us forever. All right, Peter, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you with
this one because I'm gonna say that like this, McMahon believed he could come
back and everybody would forget because he could create TV and create reality as far
as this wrestling company went. How do you feel about that? You know,
it's it's just always been the way for Vince. I think he again,
I think Vince is a is a weird, one, once in a
lifetime kind of character in this world, and you know you're not gonna have
There's a reason why there's not a lot of Vince McMahon's, you know,
because it's just you know, the wild dude, dude, you know what
I mean, a wild man. He's a wild person. He's done some
crazy things and a lot of those crazy things worked for him, and you
know, as as he got older, things kind of started to come back
on him, like you know, he he did for a long time.
Have I mean the w W WE. I mean when you go into a
w W building, I must say, it feels like a fortress when you
go into the locker room if you're not, if you don't belong there,
and you definitely know when you're there that it's Vince McMahon's. Just like again
the way they you know, they have the signs pointing to the Emperor,
meaning Vince's office. You know that was that was what it was. You're
in his kingdom and we all were just like begging or happy to be there
in any capacity. It really was like if you were there, dude,
you felt like because again you're making money. You know, everybody's getting hundreds
of dollars a day just to work, you know, induce sometimes nothing on
television, you know, people are you know, it was just you'd spend
one hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars just on extras and food and catering
for the boys at TV. And that's a lot. And that's what unfortant,
you know, it paid for a whole industry underneath itself, you know.
And I don't think a lot of people realize that as well. But
anyways, you know, Evince is just a wild person, and I don't
think anybody will ever be like Vince again, for good and for bad and
for good, you know, I don't think there'll be another guy like that.
That's very interesting information to have. I mean, like, I look
it like JCP. I mean, I know you watched a lot of JCP
when you're growing up, Rockies before your time, and a lot I watched
a lot of Bill Watts Mid South. To me, that was wrestling.
And so when I saw the like the cartoonish and everything in the way he
took over I I mean, I was nine, ten years old, but
I still like grasped onto what I wanted as wrestling as opposed to sports entertainment.
Right. It was a hard time. It was a hard time for
you know, a nine year old wrestling historian. But we're gonna move forward.
Okay, so hit me, hit me, all right, go for
it, brother, go for it. So let's talk about one. I'm
gonna move to the twenty tents here. I'm gonna pick one out. This
one involves a real life celebrity. This one involves Daniel Bryan. This storyline
involving Danny Bryant and Charlie Sheen and WWE took place in twenty twelve and was
part of the build up to the one thousand episode of Raw. Charlie Sheen
was a social media ambassador to celebrate the one thousand episode of Raw. He
was brought in as a special social media ambassador and he was He was there
on commentary and interacted with fans through social media and during the progress during the
broadcast, not the podcast. At one point it was teased that these two
would face off as Summer Slam twenty twelve. However, the match never materialized.
This one kind of fizzled out. I've heard rumors about Charlie's health and
then about him taking bumps, So this one was something. It was just
a publicity stunt aimed at leveraging his you know, his mainstream appeal to draw
some attention to w W programming, which is what they always do with a
celebrity. We see the year in and year out, when if you have
any feelings or even recall this, it was short lived. Oh didn't he
have to have? Wasn't the beginning of him like finding out he was HIV
positive? It might have been. I didn't do the actually health problems.
I just heard he was having some. So that was part of Yes,
Yes, I would say that. I would say I bet money on that
too. Uh pj I've got one for you, sure, Jenna Jamison.
Yes, don't just say yes like that. So she was on a couple
of pay per views with you, and then she disappeared. Then she was
all of a sudden showing up on Raw with thal Dinas, which he's no
you. But the point is, how is it to work with her?
And how is it like so weird that, like you guys kind of like
I mean, I'd get away with the saying bitch at each other and then
nothing happened. Yeah, it was just you know, it was just a
couple of skits. Like to me, it was never even an afterthought really,
it was just kind of like some dey shot, you know, nothing
really came of it. You know, Paulie was always trying to kind of
you know, get as much stuff in the can as far as footage and
interview and try to just parlay it into anything he could for some publicity.
So if you had anybody with some buzz, he would always kind of try
to pull that stuff, you know what I mean. But no, nothing
was ever, There was no real intention of moving forward with her in anyway.
So that's the drop one. But how how was she backstage? Was
she nice? She was super cool. She was a nice person, you
know, kind of quiet, you know, stayed to herself, really didn't
bother you know what I mean. Like a lot of people I think were
like more like that. They're just you know, very laid back and you
know, quiet and unassuming to be honest, most of most of them.
All Right, So I'm gonna drop another one on you guys. So the
first ECW pay per view, Big Dick Dudley comes out of nowhere and Joey
Styles yells it's Big Dick Dudley and he's out of jail. Now Big Dick
is not with us anymore. And I remember what Stevie Richards said, He's
like I got posters of him all over my room. It's no secret Stevie
Richards loves Big Dick. He can deliver a promo like no one else.
But the point is it went nowhere also, and it was like Big Dick
Dudley was the enforcer because Brian Lee wasn't there anymore. Now this is way
before your time, but can you say anything about like that storyline or anything
about like when you came in and you know, you met the Dudley boys
or anything like that. There was really not much to it. I think
it was so weird. Big Dick was just kind of like a Jersey guy
who was just like he was a big dude, and I think he could
get like drugs and ship. He was like that. He had the language.
He was just like a connected guy, you know. And he came
to the show he was a wrestling fan, and they're like, let's bring
him in for a spot, you know what I mean. And then more
and more he started to train and that's kind of how it went. You
know, a lot of that happened in EGWL and he had calves the size
of trees. Dude. Yeah, I thought he was a powerless dry I
thought he and nine when one were the same person for a while, they
look like the same person. They couldn't be that Tap of Philadelphia though.
Yeah, so here you go. All right, So to wrap this episode
up, let's do some speed question. Do you ready? Nope? DJ,
That means you all right? All right, we want to do a
show with Raven in the future. Are you in meat? Yeah? I
would love to, Okay, Next question, best choked slam in the business?
Oh, that's a good one. Current or all time? All time?
That'd be all time? Yeah, Undertaker better than Kane? Yeah,
Undertaker definitely. Okay, currently it'll be Damian Priest, but currently, but
all time Kine. Okay, I'm doing Kane. I go Caine, I
gotta. I got a soft spot in my heart for Kane because he and
Umtaker are really truly the same person. They really are. Okay, best
power bomb Ooh you know what I liked Sid sid the jack knife and Batista
bomb. Oh. I took all of those, so yeah, the bomb
was actually very easy to take. Are you serious? Really? Yeah?
Yeah? I love taking it, David. Dave loved it because I used
to always like, I used to sit way up with it, so I'd
give Dave like all day to like kind of sit down with it. We
loved. I loved working with him. I was like one of his first
matches in ww cery chemistry. Huh said, no, Schuyser, you know
that's that's great man. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great dude.
I loved working with him. He was actually I could I could see it
from there that he was going to be something. He was like just so
charismatic, so good, and it's super cool dude too. So yeah,
I always loved Dave. So since it's being more adopted nowadays, it seems
best spear best spear, Yeah for sure. Yeah, who has the best
ron Breker wears the shirt. It's his best beer in the business, so
he's putting it out there. But yeah, but I even though I don't,
I'm not like that familiar with it just from what I've seen. Obviously,
it's the same thing with anything. They're gonna public publicize it and you're
gonna have a certain opinion about it if they're pushing it. But if you
look at gold Goldberg obviously had a great one. But for for now,
I would say bron Breaker just because it's hot person. You never worked with
that you wish you would have worked with mm hmm Raid the Krippler Stevens.
No, I would say Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Great answer. I would
love to I would love to do I would love to play flair in in
a match with Ricky Steamboat because I could pretty much do that anyways. It
just incredible. Huh could you do it just incredible? Or could you do
it as PJ Placo the indible PJ couldn't do anything to Ricky Steamboat. I
would be two in my head. I'd have to be just incredible. How
do you cane Ricky Steamboat? Easy? You know we need to have Vic.
We need to have Vic Steamboat come out and try to help. And
that's who you came first. Uh no, no, it's true. I
mean Vic Steamboat was never rick Steamboat. But that would be fun just to
see. I mean, even at this age, you could make that work.
Probably, Okay, I got some go ahead, bro, honorable mentions
and you ask your asked questions? Cool? All right, honorable mention storylines
for things that were unsolved, Uh, just forgotten about no payoff anything.
And this is like I said, there's a laundry list, but things I
picked out the two thousand and six came versus Cane angle with the imposter Kane
being Louke Gallows. No payoff to that one. Uh, you had the
nexus Bury the Undertaker angle with the Barder life match against Kane for the world
title. NEXTUS came out and helped Caine Barry Undertaker with no reason, rhyme
or reason to that, no payoff, Dolf vacating the US title, leaves
the company, comes back and doesn't play. Yeah, that was dumb.
And then one thing that due to injury that didn't play out that I would
want your opinion on, and that would something that I would have liked to
see play out, and that was the new nWo with Kevin Nash, HBK
and Takers that we saw they were trying to recruit Triple H but never happened
because of the Nash injury. Yeah, that would have been great. I
mean, you know, any any kind of version with those kinds of names
would have been interesting. I'd like to see how that would have played out.
You know, It's just it's just a shame how you know, unfortunately
how quickly things were dropped as well, Like you know, just as much
as you can get a successful angle or something that pops on television. You
also like can blow something that could equally have been as big, you know,
in two seconds. Like there was just so much you know what I
mean, Like things just went so fast in those days. Like if it
didn't work in one week, you'd shut it down, which is a shame,
you know, because there was a lot of great stuff out there.
But yeah, that would have definitely been one of them, for sure.
And I think one of the more confusing story lines that we had in recent
memory, and that was during COVID, and that was the burnt Fiend storylines.
I guess everybody was sick and yeah to do and just that one just
was out there and I don't know how they were ever going to play that
one off. But anyway, I'm sorry for cutting you off, Guardner Gohad
and continue year actually actually justin I want to ask you something. What was
your interaction with Kenyon Chris Kanyon? Nothing? Really uh you know special.
Uh he was a good dude. You know, we had mutual friends,
but I never recall really having a much of a you know, a relationship.
You know, good dude, you know, but they didn't really know
him that well, a lot of people believed, well he believed to his
death that he wouldn't get signed or re signed or anything because he was homosexual,
which I mean, let's be honest, we've all heard the stories like
Jen's love to watch. Yeah, I listen, I don't. I'm not
trying to imitate and pretend that I know what he was going through. I
do know that it was probably maybe his perception because there was a belief that
slab room and people like Bradshaw were definitely amongst those, but it was just,
you know, you could say it was just people ribbing. And I
think Chris, you know, wasn't really built for that stuff. I think
he had had, unfortunately, you know, very complicated life. And you
know, I was ribbed hard too, and he was ribbed hard, and
it's not for everybody, and a lot of people can take that into a
very negative place. And you know, I don't know if that was the
case with Chris, but he was from what I hear, he was a
great guy. But I don't think him being gay had anything to do with
it. I mean, Pat Patterson was openly gay and he was amongst one
of the favorites in the locker room forever. You know what I mean,
I get it. It's it's one of those things that you know that I'm
gonna ask so and maybe it's me being naive, right, maybe it's me
being naive. I don't know. Perhaps, like again, I was a
bit just you know, removed from that. But I just you know,
but again, I'm not him. I'm not feeling what he you know what
I mean, only he could feel that, you know. And I'm sure
you know a lot of times there were there were negativities. I'm just not
sure. I just don't think the WW locker room was kind of you know,
I don't know. It could be. It could be. Listen,
the WW locker room could be a rough place. If you're George Clooney,
it doesn't matter who you are. And what I mean by that is you
could be perfect, you could be a stud, you could be anybody.
They're just gonna fuck with you no matter what. It's kind of what it
is, you know what I mean. And I think that's one of the
realities that people don't, you know. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot
of people can handle it unless you're given in the Candida's opinion of real life
I mean it's just I mean, it's you know, it's it's sad,
but it's true. I mean it was a bully mentality there for a long
time, you know, and I don't think anybody would argue with that.
But what are you gonna do? Right? If you say something, it's
on you. You're you're the bad guy for saying, for noticing, you
know. So if I felt like I was getting abused or shoot on,
I would just say something and it'd be like, it's your fault. What
do you You're the one that you know what I mean? So you just
learned to shut up? You know what it was? H yep, I
always do all right, feed as well. We're closing in. Uh,
let's go ahead and wrap up, tell people where to reach us, and
we may have to be pushing another another another part for this one, because
like I said, we really scratched the surface. I mean we we really
just picked out a few from each decade and we didn't even really. Yeah,
but we can definitely go further. So yeah, I'm gonna make my
notes and and but anyway, it's rocket teasers or seven on Twitter? Uh
you know, Gardner, I know we we pay phone tag a lot.
It's just life is growing, and so much more is on our plates,
and your life is growing, and love is growing, and and mind is
here with our women. And but it's more with work and in school.
It's just it's just pilot and piloting on it. But I'm so grateful for
the times that we are able to get together and even if it's last man
stuff. But we do a pretty quick trend around whenever we, you know,
have a topic that we can really sink our teeth into. So you
know, if anybody's listening, Yeah, something you want to talk about,
just reach out and we'll bring it to fruition. Iut I'm at one four
four captain. That is my handle on ex, Twitter, whatever the else.
And in PJ. We want to put your stuff out there. Yeah,
just just hit me up on X and on Instagram. Both are at
PJ Polago. That's all. Thank you for to taking care of stuff,
Thank you for taking care of math and uh, ladies and gentlemen, Russell
Magic brings wrestling magically to you because that's what we do, man, and
we want to care. We just want to have fun with wrestling. I
too. All right, good night, gentlemen, all right, thank you
pleasure and I'll see you guys very soon. God bye, La. Guys,
thanks for listening to the WWE podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your
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