Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers podcast, where we help new and beginning teachers
navigate through those crazy first years of teaching so you can maintain your sanity and
personal life. Here's your host, him Lapree. Welcome to the Teachers Need
Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want to just survive but actually
thrive in teaching. Have you guys heard of project based learning? It's a
word that I don't know if it's actually still buzzing around in teacher preparation programs,
but it's actually been around for a while. And maybe there's some other
terminology that we're using instead of project based learning or PBL. But maybe you're
wondering how do I even get started or implemented? Then this is the perfect
episode for you. Today I'm having a discussion with Nancy McHale, who is
an expert in project based learning and she's from field a project dot net,
and we're going to be talking about not only what is project based learning,
but also how to gets started if it seems a little bit overwhelming or you
don't know how it fits into your curriculum, as well as some ideas for
how you can even start project based learning at the end of the school year
so that you can keep your students engaged. Well, thank you Nancy for
that. They're being on the podcast today. I really appreciate you being here
and hanging out with me and my listeners. Thank you so much for having
me. So, just so that we know your background, can you tell
us about your teaching experience, especially, I'd love to hear about how you
went from teaching in the classroom to helping out teachers and even homeschool parents,
and I think that's really exciting. Absolutely so. I taught different grades kindergarten
through fifth grade, and after I had my person, I decided to stay
home with him for about a year, and then I started working at the
UNI versity level as a student teacher supervisor, and I worked with teachers and
help kind of coached them on teaching and supervising them. And I just loved
that part of it, just helping teachers kind of craft their own teaching and
watching them and observing them. And from there I started just giving workshops and
kind of building my rapport in that way and getting really focusing on hands on
learning. And after a few years of that, I went into helping homeschool
parents and now kind of shifting back to focusing on teachers and going to the
schools and giving workshops and consulting teachers. So I definitely love what I do,
and I love focusing on again project based learning and really just how we
can reach all learners and make sure that every student has ability and the chance
to learn and the best way that they know how. Now, for the
viewers and listeners that don't know what project based learning is, like they've heard
the lingo, could you explain it, especially to people who maybe aren't in
the education field. Absolutely, so. Project based learning is basically learning about
a topic but in a way where they where students have to solve a problem.
So the essential part of the project based learning is that there's an essential
question and that question is a problem that the students have to solve. So
and it usually has to do about the topic that they're learning, and they
go through they learn about the topic, they learn everything about what they need
to learn, standards wise about it, and then it leads them to answer
that final essential question where they solve a problem. And that solving the problem
can be building something or creating something or whatever it might be. And usually
it's collacative. They're working with other students, and throughout this process, students
are again collaborating their problem solving, they're analyzing their critical thinking. It really
allows for autonomy and independence. So there's so many benefits to project based larting,
and it again it just helps them problems solve and answer the essential question,
which makes it different than maybe just a you know, a standard learning
project or a research project. I love that because that also makes it not
only more engaging for the students, like you had said, but I think
as a teacher, the fact that we're applying our subject matter to the real
world. They can see like, this is how scientists are, this is
how you know, journalists what they do in the real world, things like
that, because you know, a lot of times the kids are like,
well, what am I going to use this for in the future, Like
why do I need math other than to count my Benjamin's? You know,
But when you show them like how to solve or real world problem, I
think that's really valuable for them to see the application. But I know that
a lot of teachers also wonder, like how can they make sure that they're
aligning the project because sometimes you know, we just want to do like a
fun project, But how can we make something that maybe even we're passionate about
align with our curriculum goals and especially the state standards, because everyone's a stickler
about aligning with the standards. So the way that I start when I plan
project based learning projects is by looking at the standard. So let's say I
want to teach about weather. So I created a project for kindergarten through second
grade about weather, and I just start look by looking at the standards,
and I actually derive my essential question from the standards. So in the science
standards there for kindergarten through second there is a standard about weather that asks something
to the effect of that students have to learn what can decrease heat in a
similar area. So I turned that into a question, and that's my essential
question for the project. So the question is what is a structure that you
can build a decrease heat in a similar area. So the students go through
they learn about whether they learn about the different types of weather, they even
can learn about seasons, any other factors about whether that you want to teach
or need to teach according to the standards, and then that will help them
all lead to the answering that menacental question, which is decreasing heat. So
that might be building a structure out of blocks or lagos or whatever it might
be. But there that they're going to answer that question derived from the standards.
Okay, so then instead of just doing like you know, lecture and
worksheets, they get to experience then the weather, I mean they already are
experiencing, and then they're like, oh, now I can actually apply it's
in my everyday life to what we're learning in class. Yes, and the
nice thing is that it's like you said, it's hands on. They're actually
experiencing it instead of just kind of filling out like like reading the textbook and
filling out a worksheet or answering questions about what they just read. They're able
to think through things and be able to solve problems and create, which is
a big component of projectly starting. Now, it doesn't mean that all worksheets
are bad or Obviously part of it is a research where they have to read
and take notes. Obviously that needs to be done, and I think it's
still very important, important skill that the students have to learn. But at
the same time, that's not all they're doing, the main part of it
is them creating, and that will lead to many other important skills that they're
going to need for the future. Right, Yeah, that's true. Like
the worksheets, they have their validity as long since something that's enhancing what they're
learning in the project. But another thing that I also think about, because
you know, we in the classroom, we have kids that have i EPs,
their specialized kids, kids who are reading like far below grade level or
you know, especially with what happened with the pandemic, they're behind in terms
of mad So I worried that they're going to struggle in terms of having a
hard time like managing the multiple parts that usually come with project based learning.
So how can I support those students without actually creating more work for myself Because
like sometimes when we when we teach just a regular lesson, we're teaching to
the middle, you know, But I feel like there's more autonomy with project
based learning. So how do I help those students that you know, have
a hard time even just putting their name on their paper? Right, That's
that makes so much sense, And that's a great question. So the nice
thing about project based learning is that it really allows for differentiation, because the
biggest part of the planning and the work for the teacher is there the planning
for it, the pre even before you even give it to the students.
So you plan for it, you set it all up, and then you
deliver it to the students. You give them instructions, you guide them,
and then you facilitate as a teacher once they have the project in their hands
and the directions. And while you're facilitating, you're going around the classroom making
sure students are on task, helping those students that need extra help, and
in addition to that, you can differentiate the type of work they're doing.
So let's say if students are researching and taking notes, that's maybe one of
the first steps in researching about the topic that they're learning. If a student
isn't able to do that, maybe you give them a worksheet where it's kind
of scaffolding them so that they're able to maybe feel in the blinks and you
can guide them on how to read one small passage and how that will help
fill in the blanks for this area, and then from there maybe increase in
writing a little bit more notes about it. So just kind of helping them
increase their skill level in that way. So you can always differentiate the different
parts of the project and the different steps of the project so that it can
reach all students. And maybe a teacher can have like two or three different
parts that are within the same type of work. So, like I mentioned
the researching, the advanced would probably be able to read and take notes,
whereas the lower maybe needs more scaff bilding more helps in some parts everyone can
do, especially probably the hands on for creating part. So it's really a
matter for the teacher to be able to facilitate and walk around and be able
to make sure that all the students needs are being met. Okay, I
don't know why. In my mind when I thought a project based learning,
I thought it was just here's the project and off you go. So the
way that you're saying that you structure it that's best for all the students is
a teacher led part and then the students then get to do more either group
or independent work. Then, So the way that I like to plan out
project based learning is so that it can encompass as much of the learning and
the classroom as possible. And what I mean by this is trying to incorporate
like cross curricular connections. So if I can have them right and meet those
standards in the project, then I'm going to do that. Or if there
if I can meet some reading standards by them reading nonfiction text, then great,
Like why not, right, they can incorporate art, you can incorporate
other many activities. So there's you know, there are I guess quote unquote
guidelines in project based learning, but you can definitely play around to and add
different elements to incorporate other content areas, which really makes it very cohesive and
makes it so that it can connect with students. Instead of them writing a
non fiction essay about a random topic, they can write it about what they're
learning about in the project. So that's kind of like how I like to
structure my projects is trying to incorporate other content areas so that it really supports
the learning for different types of content areas and it makes it more cohesive and
makes more connections for the students. That makes total sense. So now that
I'm getting a picture of how when you do this, when you're assessing the
project, are you assessing the individual parts along the way, or is the
actual grade the culmination of everything I assessed kind of the final project. Okay,
it really there's no right or wrong way. I feel like it would
probably be more beneficial to assess along the way and maybe have some markers,
as you know, to make sure that the students are meaning certain steps of
the project. If I were to do it differently now, I would set
it up in that way and then maybe have like a cumulative grade at the
end and assess the project obviously with the rubric and make sure that the different
components of the project were being met. I actually also really like the fact
that the way that you did it was mainly on the culminating project because from
the few projects that I've done, I don't do a lot of project based
learning, but this really has like my mind about it. It's kind of
a messy process, and because we have our learners that are at different levels,
you know, you're going to have some kids that surge ahead and some
kids that need, like you said, more scaffolding. So I can't help
but feel that the culminating project is going to really reflect what they can do
as opposed to you know, the worksheets are the small things along the way.
I think the only thing that I might assess along the way is if
there's a standard that I still haven't gotten evidence of, you know, what
they can do. But yeah, you know where we're at at the time
of this recording, it's end of April. I'm trying to think of a
way to do this that creates the least amount of work, because you know,
it can be a lot of work to actually great projects compared to greating
like individual assignment. And then have to keep kids engaged during this process because
some kids, you know, when you give them a project, you would
think it'd be exciting for them. Sometimes we give them a subject product this
is going to be really cool, and just have some students are like,
no, that's I'm not into that at all. Yeah. Yeah, I
think the key is keeping it relevant to them because whenever kids learn about a
new topic or concept, they want to know why why are they learning it?
Right? Yeah, I think it's a fair question because as adults we
ask the same thing, like why do we need to know this there?
Why do we need to do this right? Like we might know the answer
quicker, but for kids, we need to explain it to them and it
makes sense. So the more that we can explain the why part of it,
the more relevant and hopefully engaging they will be. So the you know,
one of the key components of project based learning is providing a real world
element in there. So the essential question should be based on a real world
problem or a real world factor, so that in itself can is very relevant
for students. And if we can help them make those connections between the work
they're doing and the relevance in either maybe their personal life or even the world
around them, they're going to be a lot more engaged because they'll know why
they're doing the thing that they're doing, rather than if they're just maybe reading
from a textbook and it's not connecting in any way for them, then that'll
be a lot harder for them to understand. So if they're going to be
faced with a problem that they have to solve, a real world problem,
then they're going to be a lot more likely to stay engaged. And especially
if they're creating something or building something with their peers, that's a lot more
engaging and hopefully keeps them engaged throughout the process. Speaking of engaging with you
at the end of the year, what are some ideas for projects that you
Yeah, so I would say, if you're new to project based learning,
but you kind of want to fit one or two in at the last the
end of the year, I would say something that's again enticing, engaging,
but a little lighter maybe and could probably go with many different topics. Would
be like a topic like engineering, right, so something where they have to
build a tool to solve a problem. Something like that would be something that
can fit in with a lot of different topics, even if it's just a
standalone project where you give them that essential question like what is a tool that
you can build to solve a specific problem and the teacher can come up with
that problem, where the students can come up with that problem. That's a
little lighter, that's more fun and so that and it's a real world problem
that they have to solve and they'll be able to create and do all the
things with project based learning. I have other kind of quote unquote fun projects
on my website, like a movie night project, so basically that goes through
and helps kids learn about the movie industry and the history of filmmaking and comparing
and contrasting different theaters and why are concessions so much more expensive than actual ticket
kind of thing, so it hasn't explore many different elements, and then they
create like a fun movie night or like a movie day in the class where
they have to create their own like you know, money and how much all
the concessions are going to cost and all of that. So it's the real
world application and so they can see and go through that process and it's also
again fun fun for them. That sounds amazing because the students probably really don't
know that they're practicing reading and writing and they're practicing math and things like that
and history. So I love that and the creating a tool. I'm sure
there are a lot of kids who would jump onto that. For me,
that kind of engineering is tough for me, but that actually then be a
good project media the student because that would help me learn that subject even more.
And I think that the more teachers can think of this as the actual
learning versus maybe like a supplementation to the learning, then it will become a
lot easier to implement. And I would just recommend for any teacher starting with
project based learning or wanting to start some component of it, is to start
small. So I know, I when I explained it, I explained many
elements of project based learning. But really, if a teacher wants to just
get started, I would say, pick one element, pick one part of
it, and start with that and then the next time add to it.
So it's not overwhelming, because you know, if you start little by little,
it will grow, versus if you start big and give up, then
you won't do it at all. So just a better time. And I'm
really here for any questions. If anyone ever wants to reach out, I'd
be happy to help, happy to chat about how to implement, how to
plan projects. I definitely want my listeners and my viewers to get their hands
on these projects. So where can they find you and your project based learning
resources? So all of my projects are at build a project dot net,
slash shop, and I'm on social media at Nancy mckill edu on Facebook,
Instagram, and yeah, you know, anyone has any questions, feel free
to reach out and I'm going to put Nancy's links in the description. Well,
thank you and Nancy for being on the show and I can't wait to
have you back again so we can talk more about PBL of the future.
Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much for having me. So I hope
that you found that conversation with Nancy really helpful. I'm putting her information in
terms of where you can reach her be in the show notes, so that
you can also get your hands on these educational resources that she's created. I'm
really really excited about getting started with this and doing more of it. I
really intend to all the time, but I never get around to it.
And this is definitely like reignited my curiosity to go forth and try it out.
So go ahead and check out the show notes for that. Thanks for
hanging out with me today, you guys, and I will see you next
time. Thanks for listening to the Teachers Need Teachers podcast. Love this episode,
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