1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:10,119 Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers podcast, where we help new and beginning teachers 2 00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:16,000 navigate through those crazy first years of teaching so you can maintain your sanity and 3 00:00:16,399 --> 00:00:27,480 personal life. Here's your host, him Lapree. Welcome to the Teachers Need 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,879 Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want to just survive but actually 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,880 thrive in teaching. Have you guys heard of project based learning? It's a 6 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:42,280 word that I don't know if it's actually still buzzing around in teacher preparation programs, 7 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,479 but it's actually been around for a while. And maybe there's some other 8 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,399 terminology that we're using instead of project based learning or PBL. But maybe you're 9 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:54,920 wondering how do I even get started or implemented? Then this is the perfect 10 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,280 episode for you. Today I'm having a discussion with Nancy McHale, who is 11 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:03,640 an expert in project based learning and she's from field a project dot net, 12 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,799 and we're going to be talking about not only what is project based learning, 13 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:11,359 but also how to gets started if it seems a little bit overwhelming or you 14 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,840 don't know how it fits into your curriculum, as well as some ideas for 15 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,840 how you can even start project based learning at the end of the school year 16 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,760 so that you can keep your students engaged. Well, thank you Nancy for 17 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,200 that. They're being on the podcast today. I really appreciate you being here 18 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,000 and hanging out with me and my listeners. Thank you so much for having 19 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,000 me. So, just so that we know your background, can you tell 20 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:38,640 us about your teaching experience, especially, I'd love to hear about how you 21 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,719 went from teaching in the classroom to helping out teachers and even homeschool parents, 22 00:01:44,719 --> 00:01:49,640 and I think that's really exciting. Absolutely so. I taught different grades kindergarten 23 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:56,040 through fifth grade, and after I had my person, I decided to stay 24 00:01:56,079 --> 00:01:59,640 home with him for about a year, and then I started working at the 25 00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:05,719 UNI versity level as a student teacher supervisor, and I worked with teachers and 26 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:09,360 help kind of coached them on teaching and supervising them. And I just loved 27 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:15,639 that part of it, just helping teachers kind of craft their own teaching and 28 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,800 watching them and observing them. And from there I started just giving workshops and 29 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,159 kind of building my rapport in that way and getting really focusing on hands on 30 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,840 learning. And after a few years of that, I went into helping homeschool 31 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:37,080 parents and now kind of shifting back to focusing on teachers and going to the 32 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:43,280 schools and giving workshops and consulting teachers. So I definitely love what I do, 33 00:02:43,479 --> 00:02:47,000 and I love focusing on again project based learning and really just how we 34 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:54,000 can reach all learners and make sure that every student has ability and the chance 35 00:02:54,120 --> 00:03:00,039 to learn and the best way that they know how. Now, for the 36 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,120 viewers and listeners that don't know what project based learning is, like they've heard 37 00:03:04,159 --> 00:03:07,000 the lingo, could you explain it, especially to people who maybe aren't in 38 00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:14,199 the education field. Absolutely, so. Project based learning is basically learning about 39 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,280 a topic but in a way where they where students have to solve a problem. 40 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:23,879 So the essential part of the project based learning is that there's an essential 41 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:30,080 question and that question is a problem that the students have to solve. So 42 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:36,280 and it usually has to do about the topic that they're learning, and they 43 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:40,680 go through they learn about the topic, they learn everything about what they need 44 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:46,719 to learn, standards wise about it, and then it leads them to answer 45 00:03:46,759 --> 00:03:52,479 that final essential question where they solve a problem. And that solving the problem 46 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:59,400 can be building something or creating something or whatever it might be. And usually 47 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:03,680 it's collacative. They're working with other students, and throughout this process, students 48 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:11,120 are again collaborating their problem solving, they're analyzing their critical thinking. It really 49 00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:16,040 allows for autonomy and independence. So there's so many benefits to project based larting, 50 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:23,079 and it again it just helps them problems solve and answer the essential question, 51 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,480 which makes it different than maybe just a you know, a standard learning 52 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:30,720 project or a research project. I love that because that also makes it not 53 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,439 only more engaging for the students, like you had said, but I think 54 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:41,439 as a teacher, the fact that we're applying our subject matter to the real 55 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,600 world. They can see like, this is how scientists are, this is 56 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:47,120 how you know, journalists what they do in the real world, things like 57 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,199 that, because you know, a lot of times the kids are like, 58 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:51,160 well, what am I going to use this for in the future, Like 59 00:04:51,319 --> 00:04:54,839 why do I need math other than to count my Benjamin's? You know, 60 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,519 But when you show them like how to solve or real world problem, I 61 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,839 think that's really valuable for them to see the application. But I know that 62 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:06,399 a lot of teachers also wonder, like how can they make sure that they're 63 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:11,439 aligning the project because sometimes you know, we just want to do like a 64 00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:15,319 fun project, But how can we make something that maybe even we're passionate about 65 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,920 align with our curriculum goals and especially the state standards, because everyone's a stickler 66 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,759 about aligning with the standards. So the way that I start when I plan 67 00:05:26,319 --> 00:05:30,240 project based learning projects is by looking at the standard. So let's say I 68 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:36,399 want to teach about weather. So I created a project for kindergarten through second 69 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:42,600 grade about weather, and I just start look by looking at the standards, 70 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,279 and I actually derive my essential question from the standards. So in the science 71 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:56,160 standards there for kindergarten through second there is a standard about weather that asks something 72 00:05:56,199 --> 00:06:00,959 to the effect of that students have to learn what can decrease heat in a 73 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,800 similar area. So I turned that into a question, and that's my essential 74 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:09,120 question for the project. So the question is what is a structure that you 75 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,480 can build a decrease heat in a similar area. So the students go through 76 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,800 they learn about whether they learn about the different types of weather, they even 77 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,040 can learn about seasons, any other factors about whether that you want to teach 78 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,519 or need to teach according to the standards, and then that will help them 79 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,040 all lead to the answering that menacental question, which is decreasing heat. So 80 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:36,160 that might be building a structure out of blocks or lagos or whatever it might 81 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:42,160 be. But there that they're going to answer that question derived from the standards. 82 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:46,000 Okay, so then instead of just doing like you know, lecture and 83 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,519 worksheets, they get to experience then the weather, I mean they already are 84 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,399 experiencing, and then they're like, oh, now I can actually apply it's 85 00:06:56,439 --> 00:07:00,160 in my everyday life to what we're learning in class. Yes, and the 86 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,519 nice thing is that it's like you said, it's hands on. They're actually 87 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:12,800 experiencing it instead of just kind of filling out like like reading the textbook and 88 00:07:12,879 --> 00:07:16,319 filling out a worksheet or answering questions about what they just read. They're able 89 00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:24,040 to think through things and be able to solve problems and create, which is 90 00:07:24,079 --> 00:07:28,879 a big component of projectly starting. Now, it doesn't mean that all worksheets 91 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,199 are bad or Obviously part of it is a research where they have to read 92 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:38,639 and take notes. Obviously that needs to be done, and I think it's 93 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,399 still very important, important skill that the students have to learn. But at 94 00:07:43,399 --> 00:07:46,240 the same time, that's not all they're doing, the main part of it 95 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:54,879 is them creating, and that will lead to many other important skills that they're 96 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:59,199 going to need for the future. Right, Yeah, that's true. Like 97 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,680 the worksheets, they have their validity as long since something that's enhancing what they're 98 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:09,120 learning in the project. But another thing that I also think about, because 99 00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:13,959 you know, we in the classroom, we have kids that have i EPs, 100 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,879 their specialized kids, kids who are reading like far below grade level or 101 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,240 you know, especially with what happened with the pandemic, they're behind in terms 102 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:28,680 of mad So I worried that they're going to struggle in terms of having a 103 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:35,519 hard time like managing the multiple parts that usually come with project based learning. 104 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,960 So how can I support those students without actually creating more work for myself Because 105 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,840 like sometimes when we when we teach just a regular lesson, we're teaching to 106 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:50,120 the middle, you know, But I feel like there's more autonomy with project 107 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,639 based learning. So how do I help those students that you know, have 108 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:58,000 a hard time even just putting their name on their paper? Right, That's 109 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,159 that makes so much sense, And that's a great question. So the nice 110 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,799 thing about project based learning is that it really allows for differentiation, because the 111 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,960 biggest part of the planning and the work for the teacher is there the planning 112 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,799 for it, the pre even before you even give it to the students. 113 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,919 So you plan for it, you set it all up, and then you 114 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,600 deliver it to the students. You give them instructions, you guide them, 115 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,639 and then you facilitate as a teacher once they have the project in their hands 116 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:35,200 and the directions. And while you're facilitating, you're going around the classroom making 117 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:41,000 sure students are on task, helping those students that need extra help, and 118 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:46,519 in addition to that, you can differentiate the type of work they're doing. 119 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:52,200 So let's say if students are researching and taking notes, that's maybe one of 120 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,320 the first steps in researching about the topic that they're learning. If a student 121 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,159 isn't able to do that, maybe you give them a worksheet where it's kind 122 00:10:01,159 --> 00:10:05,879 of scaffolding them so that they're able to maybe feel in the blinks and you 123 00:10:05,919 --> 00:10:11,559 can guide them on how to read one small passage and how that will help 124 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:15,840 fill in the blanks for this area, and then from there maybe increase in 125 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,600 writing a little bit more notes about it. So just kind of helping them 126 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:26,759 increase their skill level in that way. So you can always differentiate the different 127 00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:31,480 parts of the project and the different steps of the project so that it can 128 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,080 reach all students. And maybe a teacher can have like two or three different 129 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,720 parts that are within the same type of work. So, like I mentioned 130 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,120 the researching, the advanced would probably be able to read and take notes, 131 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:50,679 whereas the lower maybe needs more scaff bilding more helps in some parts everyone can 132 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:56,679 do, especially probably the hands on for creating part. So it's really a 133 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,279 matter for the teacher to be able to facilitate and walk around and be able 134 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:07,080 to make sure that all the students needs are being met. Okay, I 135 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,600 don't know why. In my mind when I thought a project based learning, 136 00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:13,279 I thought it was just here's the project and off you go. So the 137 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,200 way that you're saying that you structure it that's best for all the students is 138 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,919 a teacher led part and then the students then get to do more either group 139 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,960 or independent work. Then, So the way that I like to plan out 140 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:35,440 project based learning is so that it can encompass as much of the learning and 141 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:39,600 the classroom as possible. And what I mean by this is trying to incorporate 142 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:46,080 like cross curricular connections. So if I can have them right and meet those 143 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,720 standards in the project, then I'm going to do that. Or if there 144 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,080 if I can meet some reading standards by them reading nonfiction text, then great, 145 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,679 Like why not, right, they can incorporate art, you can incorporate 146 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,960 other many activities. So there's you know, there are I guess quote unquote 147 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:11,840 guidelines in project based learning, but you can definitely play around to and add 148 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:20,559 different elements to incorporate other content areas, which really makes it very cohesive and 149 00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:24,720 makes it so that it can connect with students. Instead of them writing a 150 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:31,320 non fiction essay about a random topic, they can write it about what they're 151 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,279 learning about in the project. So that's kind of like how I like to 152 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,679 structure my projects is trying to incorporate other content areas so that it really supports 153 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:48,000 the learning for different types of content areas and it makes it more cohesive and 154 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:52,480 makes more connections for the students. That makes total sense. So now that 155 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:54,840 I'm getting a picture of how when you do this, when you're assessing the 156 00:12:54,879 --> 00:13:01,000 project, are you assessing the individual parts along the way, or is the 157 00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:09,559 actual grade the culmination of everything I assessed kind of the final project. Okay, 158 00:13:09,799 --> 00:13:16,159 it really there's no right or wrong way. I feel like it would 159 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:22,440 probably be more beneficial to assess along the way and maybe have some markers, 160 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,919 as you know, to make sure that the students are meaning certain steps of 161 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,639 the project. If I were to do it differently now, I would set 162 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,799 it up in that way and then maybe have like a cumulative grade at the 163 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:43,919 end and assess the project obviously with the rubric and make sure that the different 164 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,399 components of the project were being met. I actually also really like the fact 165 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:54,639 that the way that you did it was mainly on the culminating project because from 166 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:56,960 the few projects that I've done, I don't do a lot of project based 167 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:01,159 learning, but this really has like my mind about it. It's kind of 168 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,279 a messy process, and because we have our learners that are at different levels, 169 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,039 you know, you're going to have some kids that surge ahead and some 170 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,360 kids that need, like you said, more scaffolding. So I can't help 171 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,559 but feel that the culminating project is going to really reflect what they can do 172 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:22,919 as opposed to you know, the worksheets are the small things along the way. 173 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,080 I think the only thing that I might assess along the way is if 174 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,039 there's a standard that I still haven't gotten evidence of, you know, what 175 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,879 they can do. But yeah, you know where we're at at the time 176 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:37,120 of this recording, it's end of April. I'm trying to think of a 177 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,799 way to do this that creates the least amount of work, because you know, 178 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,480 it can be a lot of work to actually great projects compared to greating 179 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:52,480 like individual assignment. And then have to keep kids engaged during this process because 180 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:54,240 some kids, you know, when you give them a project, you would 181 00:14:54,279 --> 00:14:58,200 think it'd be exciting for them. Sometimes we give them a subject product this 182 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:01,320 is going to be really cool, and just have some students are like, 183 00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:05,639 no, that's I'm not into that at all. Yeah. Yeah, I 184 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:11,559 think the key is keeping it relevant to them because whenever kids learn about a 185 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,159 new topic or concept, they want to know why why are they learning it? 186 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,039 Right? Yeah, I think it's a fair question because as adults we 187 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,879 ask the same thing, like why do we need to know this there? 188 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:26,399 Why do we need to do this right? Like we might know the answer 189 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:31,080 quicker, but for kids, we need to explain it to them and it 190 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,799 makes sense. So the more that we can explain the why part of it, 191 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,799 the more relevant and hopefully engaging they will be. So the you know, 192 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:48,000 one of the key components of project based learning is providing a real world 193 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:54,399 element in there. So the essential question should be based on a real world 194 00:15:54,440 --> 00:16:00,600 problem or a real world factor, so that in itself can is very relevant 195 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,759 for students. And if we can help them make those connections between the work 196 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:11,679 they're doing and the relevance in either maybe their personal life or even the world 197 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,440 around them, they're going to be a lot more engaged because they'll know why 198 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,399 they're doing the thing that they're doing, rather than if they're just maybe reading 199 00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:25,480 from a textbook and it's not connecting in any way for them, then that'll 200 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,960 be a lot harder for them to understand. So if they're going to be 201 00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:33,480 faced with a problem that they have to solve, a real world problem, 202 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:37,679 then they're going to be a lot more likely to stay engaged. And especially 203 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:42,919 if they're creating something or building something with their peers, that's a lot more 204 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,679 engaging and hopefully keeps them engaged throughout the process. Speaking of engaging with you 205 00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:52,480 at the end of the year, what are some ideas for projects that you 206 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,519 Yeah, so I would say, if you're new to project based learning, 207 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,799 but you kind of want to fit one or two in at the last the 208 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,480 end of the year, I would say something that's again enticing, engaging, 209 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:12,279 but a little lighter maybe and could probably go with many different topics. Would 210 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:17,400 be like a topic like engineering, right, so something where they have to 211 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,200 build a tool to solve a problem. Something like that would be something that 212 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,400 can fit in with a lot of different topics, even if it's just a 213 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:32,200 standalone project where you give them that essential question like what is a tool that 214 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:36,759 you can build to solve a specific problem and the teacher can come up with 215 00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:38,759 that problem, where the students can come up with that problem. That's a 216 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:44,759 little lighter, that's more fun and so that and it's a real world problem 217 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:47,559 that they have to solve and they'll be able to create and do all the 218 00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:52,440 things with project based learning. I have other kind of quote unquote fun projects 219 00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:59,440 on my website, like a movie night project, so basically that goes through 220 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,960 and helps kids learn about the movie industry and the history of filmmaking and comparing 221 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:12,039 and contrasting different theaters and why are concessions so much more expensive than actual ticket 222 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,599 kind of thing, so it hasn't explore many different elements, and then they 223 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,200 create like a fun movie night or like a movie day in the class where 224 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,559 they have to create their own like you know, money and how much all 225 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:29,440 the concessions are going to cost and all of that. So it's the real 226 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:34,559 world application and so they can see and go through that process and it's also 227 00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:41,400 again fun fun for them. That sounds amazing because the students probably really don't 228 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,480 know that they're practicing reading and writing and they're practicing math and things like that 229 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,599 and history. So I love that and the creating a tool. I'm sure 230 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,920 there are a lot of kids who would jump onto that. For me, 231 00:18:56,079 --> 00:18:57,759 that kind of engineering is tough for me, but that actually then be a 232 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:03,480 good project media the student because that would help me learn that subject even more. 233 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,880 And I think that the more teachers can think of this as the actual 234 00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:15,000 learning versus maybe like a supplementation to the learning, then it will become a 235 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:19,720 lot easier to implement. And I would just recommend for any teacher starting with 236 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:23,839 project based learning or wanting to start some component of it, is to start 237 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,319 small. So I know, I when I explained it, I explained many 238 00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:32,920 elements of project based learning. But really, if a teacher wants to just 239 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,920 get started, I would say, pick one element, pick one part of 240 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,039 it, and start with that and then the next time add to it. 241 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,000 So it's not overwhelming, because you know, if you start little by little, 242 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,519 it will grow, versus if you start big and give up, then 243 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,160 you won't do it at all. So just a better time. And I'm 244 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,720 really here for any questions. If anyone ever wants to reach out, I'd 245 00:19:57,759 --> 00:20:02,759 be happy to help, happy to chat about how to implement, how to 246 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:07,160 plan projects. I definitely want my listeners and my viewers to get their hands 247 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,160 on these projects. So where can they find you and your project based learning 248 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,759 resources? So all of my projects are at build a project dot net, 249 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:25,799 slash shop, and I'm on social media at Nancy mckill edu on Facebook, 250 00:20:25,839 --> 00:20:30,480 Instagram, and yeah, you know, anyone has any questions, feel free 251 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:34,440 to reach out and I'm going to put Nancy's links in the description. Well, 252 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,400 thank you and Nancy for being on the show and I can't wait to 253 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,319 have you back again so we can talk more about PBL of the future. 254 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:45,640 Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much for having me. So I hope 255 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,119 that you found that conversation with Nancy really helpful. I'm putting her information in 256 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,880 terms of where you can reach her be in the show notes, so that 257 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:56,240 you can also get your hands on these educational resources that she's created. I'm 258 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,920 really really excited about getting started with this and doing more of it. I 259 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,279 really intend to all the time, but I never get around to it. 260 00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:11,039 And this is definitely like reignited my curiosity to go forth and try it out. 261 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,480 So go ahead and check out the show notes for that. Thanks for 262 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,000 hanging out with me today, you guys, and I will see you next 263 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,799 time. Thanks for listening to the Teachers Need Teachers podcast. Love this episode, 264 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,799 head over to Apple Podcast or Google Play to subscribe, rate and leave 265 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:26,319 a review.