1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,799 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with no ads? Easy? 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,480 Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You get access to a 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,240 private RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 4 00:00:14,279 --> 00:00:18,440 we'll get you that and a special dot net rocks patron mug. Sign 5 00:00:18,519 --> 00:00:35,679 up now at patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey guess what. It's 6 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:39,359 dot ned rocks all over again. I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell, 7 00:00:39,399 --> 00:00:42,039 and we're here with Rocky Lotke. We're gonna be talking to him in just 8 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:46,320 a minute. But what's up with you, mister Campbell? What's new? 9 00:00:46,359 --> 00:00:48,920 Oh? When's the last time we shot a three show day? I know 10 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:53,000 it's been a while. Yeah, yeah, it's been fun. Usually I 11 00:00:53,079 --> 00:00:57,079 have a whiskey at this time of day, yeah, when it's the last 12 00:00:57,079 --> 00:01:00,240 show of the day, but I am staining from alcohol during the week. 13 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:04,719 There've been doing this since the first of January. That's smart. Yeah, 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,159 all right, I appreciate that. Where I have now been, you know, 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,879 in the new office, have actually put the crystal decanter filled with whiskey 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,319 in the office, so I don't even have to I'd have to get out 17 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,359 of my chair. Oh okay, if you had a drip tube, that 18 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,920 would be even better. I have a I think there's Shivus regal in there 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,239 right now, you know. After shooting that that windows weekly stuff people bugging 20 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,280 me about. Just make a YouTube channel at that. That's like one of 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,040 the things I could add to a channel like that is like, what's in 22 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:36,680 the decant you know, in your decanter? What's in my decandor? Like 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,879 decantors are out of style ever since bottles became cheap well, and for decanters 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,359 for whiskey are kind of like, nah, why do you do that? 25 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,280 Decanters are for wine, isn't it? Well? These it's really just a 26 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,400 thing you put. Once upon a time, there weren't bottles for whiskey, 27 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:55,120 right, and so you would take you would take your decanter your bottle while 28 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,120 out be clear, your servant would take your decander down to the whiskey purveyor 29 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:04,079 and they would fill it from the barrel and go back home on a like 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,039 a growler for whiskey exactly. That's the way it used to be. But 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,520 have bottles, in fact, we have fancy bottles, right, Yeah, 32 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:14,280 the things are good, all right? Well cool, let's start things off 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:23,439 right with a little better no framework. All right, man, what do 34 00:02:23,479 --> 00:02:27,680 you got? Well, you you don't have to know it, so you 35 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,199 better not. You're not better know it, and it's certainly not a framework. 36 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,280 Don't you should know this? Well? Yeah, play yourself. This 37 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:39,360 is seriously good music. Okay. So my better no framework is my band's 38 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,280 website, which I don't know as if I've even talked about my band's website, 39 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,879 Franklin Brothers band dot com. But I'm Franklin Brothers band dot com. 40 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,280 You can see our schedule, but more importantly, you can see a slew 41 00:02:52,479 --> 00:02:57,360 of live videos that we've recorded of the band, and we meaning me. 42 00:02:58,759 --> 00:03:04,479 The band uses a very cool technology for it's like all the latest stuff, 43 00:03:04,479 --> 00:03:08,080 but I've been doing it since like twenty twelve, where you have this headless 44 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:14,759 mixer right with inputs and outputs and headphone preamps and all that stuff. Everybody 45 00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:17,360 connects to it, even including the sound guy sound guy with an iPad, 46 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,159 all the musicians with iPhones or or you know whatever kind of phone, and 47 00:03:23,439 --> 00:03:29,039 they can dial in their own personal mix. Each person gets their own mix 48 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:34,120 that they can modify. With their phone, and so it takes monitors off 49 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,120 the stage. Everybody gets in ear headphones and we've been working like this for 50 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:40,680 a long long time. Nice. One of the sign benefits of using this 51 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:45,639 is I could just plug in a computer and it will record, you know, 52 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:49,919 thirty two tracks all the channels, all the channels, and for the 53 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,199 audio wonks right after in the signal flow, right after the preamp. So 54 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:58,400 you plug in the microphone, the preamp amplifies it and then it gets recorded. 55 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,000 So there's no effects, there's no nuhing thing on it. It's drop 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,680 yeah yeah, I know, minimal room yeah yeah. And so as long 57 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:06,560 as I get a good signal and it's not too hot or too low, 58 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,639 I can take that back in the studio and mix it and then sync it 59 00:04:10,719 --> 00:04:13,039 up to videos and stuff. So that's what I've done with all of these 60 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,680 videos. So it also cursed me, Like, no monitors means it's a 61 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,279 lot more room on the stage, yeah, hack of a lot more portable 62 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:23,279 rig like you can more yeah, more control is more. Yeah. It's 63 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,279 important that you don't get all the bleed from the monitors going into the microphones, 64 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:29,959 which makes it very difficult to mix the front of the house. Yeah 65 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,839 for sure. So anyway, I recently published a new video which is a 66 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:41,399 new mix of an older recording that we did, Jay and I did with 67 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:44,839 a few other people, some people horns from the band, some not. 68 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,120 Of the thrill is gone and so this is a song that BB King covered 69 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,480 it. He didn't write it originally, but he has the most famous version 70 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,480 of it from nineteen sixty nine. And the guy who played bass on that 71 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,480 with bb with Bebe, who actually kind of wrote the groove according to him, 72 00:05:04,519 --> 00:05:09,639 like he came up with that groove he played it with us. Wow, 73 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,240 Jerry Jamott, who's I mean a legend, a legend ye as Schofield 74 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:17,720 told me. He's R and B Royalty. Dude, how the hell did 75 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,879 that happen so well? And I mean we were talking before, But that 76 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:27,480 may the BB King version may not even be the best version that Jerry played 77 00:05:27,519 --> 00:05:30,800 on. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's true. Yeah, because he 78 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,279 also did the Aretha Franklin version. Well you're thinking of Son of a Preacher 79 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:35,360 Man. Oh no, I'm mixing up songs. Yeah, son of a 80 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,480 Preacher Man. Yes, so we also did Son of a Preacher Man. 81 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,480 You can find that. But me idiot. I had no idea that he 82 00:05:41,519 --> 00:05:45,319 did that with Aretha on Aretha frank And so we're playing in the band and 83 00:05:45,399 --> 00:05:47,360 night drummer says, hey, have you ever heard Aretha Franklin's version of that? 84 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,800 No, So we listened to it. It's great. And then I 85 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,399 look, Hey, that sounds like Jerry Jamatt playing bass. Sure enough, 86 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,560 it is. And I asked him. I asked him, Hey, do 87 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,800 you know son of a preacher? Do it? Do I do? I? 88 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,800 Maybe I do. Rocky, you can chime in here because the reason 89 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,040 that I'm showing this is because I remember you came to see my band at 90 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:14,920 Sailfest in New London one year. I remember seeing you from the stage. 91 00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:16,560 Yeah. Absolutely, My wife and I came all the way out there just 92 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,240 for that. Actually, it was awesome. That was so cool. There's 93 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:26,120 nothing better than a summer night and fireworks, yeah, with the water in 94 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,759 the background and the weather and the and yeah. And it was a fantastic 95 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,439 experience and you guys really knocked it out of the park. I was very 96 00:06:34,519 --> 00:06:38,879 impressed. Thanks. Well, I'm very proud of this band and we don't 97 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:40,920 make any money, but we sure have a hell of a lot of fun. 98 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,639 Fair enough. Yeah, anyway, that's my better No framework have fun 99 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,680 with that, and who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed a comment off 100 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:55,000 of Show eight sixteen twenty holy Man going back a little bit. This is 101 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,319 from January twenty nineteen with one Rocky Laka when we were talking about migrating dot 102 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,720 net standard back when that was a thing yecause of course he was doing it 103 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,600 with CSLA as well, so he had certainly some good opinions about it. 104 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:14,920 And a longtime listener Tony Drake, who's out of Melbourne, Australia, Melbourne, 105 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:17,000 and I would also point out one of my favorite comments of all time 106 00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:21,199 was the one that he sent us back in twenty eleven when we did that 107 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:27,800 code mash with the Java posse. Oh yeah, that was a lot of 108 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,079 bourbon was involved, as a lot of bourbon, had a lot of bourbon, 109 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:33,439 and I as if I recall correctly, those guys got hammered and we 110 00:07:33,439 --> 00:07:36,240 were kind of professionals. Oh no, because that was the thing. If 111 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,319 you make fun of the other guy's stack, you have to take a drink, 112 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,360 which is why, because I was thirsty, I led off with a 113 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,240 bunch of Java jokes, as you do but now I think a couple of 114 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:53,120 them were sleeping by the end of shows. Not the comment I'm going to 115 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,680 read. I'm going to read Tony's comment in relation to that dot Standard issues, 116 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,360 which is he said, I love the show highlights the slight man we've 117 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,319 gotten into. I want to say something as someone who is building a large 118 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:07,319 app with CSLA and loved it. Now working in KRE two to two with 119 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,120 dls oh Man KRE two and Standard two oh and four point seven to one, 120 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,680 which can use the DLLs from stead of two oh and an angular seven 121 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:20,560 SPA as the UI is hosted on Azure. I came from fifteen years as 122 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,560 a PICK developer in the nineteen nineties. I'm million SQL in dot net in 123 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:30,519 two thousand and five. I share those stories with the ADP PICK Basic something 124 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,879 like that. Yeah, I know with you, it's amazing how much change 125 00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:37,559 we do go through as software engineers. And I would love to have a 126 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,960 beer with Rocky and you both. I have no real friends who know the 127 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,720 pain we all feel of being in this odd, odd business. Imagine if 128 00:08:46,799 --> 00:08:52,480 making bridges involved redoing the theories in practices every five years and no, no 129 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,120 thanks, no, no, no, no, no, I don't think 130 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:58,360 it's better, Like you know the big When our software crashes, you just 131 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,440 reboot, which crashes. Beep per die. None good. If anything I 132 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,960 got for this podcast, it is stay current. So I feel smuged that 133 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,759 my current business solutions are moving one hundred percent to Core and keeping up with 134 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:15,320 the latest JavaScript frameworks and packages like autumn Apper and so on is the best 135 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,960 way forward. One thing you forgot to mention is how hard it can be 136 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:22,080 to realer in this old tech to keep it going. Getting a developer and 137 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,919 who's never seen WPF for wind forums, and while they know dot net, 138 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:30,120 it's all new, so it can't necessarily be easy keep on the latest or 139 00:09:30,159 --> 00:09:33,320 previous releases. My rule keep current. Yeah, good advice. I can't 140 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:37,279 argue that, Tony. True enough, and thanks so much for your comment. 141 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,639 I mean it was a few years ago, but not that many. 142 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,840 So a copy of music Code Buy is on its way to unit. If 143 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,240 you'd like a copy of music Cobe, I write a comment on the website 144 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,360 at dot at rocks dot com or on the facebooks. We publish every show 145 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,440 there, and if you comment there and a reading the show, we'll send 146 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,399 you a copy of music cope, and you could certainly send us a tweet 147 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,919 or an X or whatever the hell you call it. These days, I'm 148 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,200 at Carl Franklin, He's at Rich Campbell, but the cool kids are hanging 149 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,360 out. I'm massed on, I'm at Carl Franklin at tech Hub dot social, 150 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,240 and I'm Rich Campbell at masadon dot social. Send us a tweet. 151 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:09,279 I believe Rocky you're also on massadon, aren't you. I am. I'm 152 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:15,320 Rocky Lotka at fostadon dot org fostaedon. Hmm, very cool. Well, 153 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,720 this is usually where I introduced the guest, although Rocky needs no introduction. 154 00:10:18,799 --> 00:10:22,480 But just in case you don't know who Rocky Locky is. He wrote the 155 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,279 very first book on dot net with Billy Hollis that I ever read, ever, 156 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:31,440 ever, ever. I always think of Billy and Rocky as your inspiration 157 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,240 for Donna at Rocks full stop. Yeah. I mean basically, when we 158 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:37,399 would hang out in the behind the scenes, you know, in the speaker's 159 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:41,639 lounge at conferences and stuff, we'd be having these great conversations and I was 160 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,519 like, these have got to be shared. Yeah, yeah, so good 161 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:50,399 old friends that in a disturbing addiction to a couple of mechanics from Boston and 162 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,039 there you go, Dot Ross. I still listen to those reruns. Those 163 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:56,559 guys are retired, I know, well one of them died and past. 164 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,240 Yeah Tommy, yeah, car talk. But yeah, you're right. I 165 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:03,679 mean, I'm a public radio junkie and I always like this stuff. And 166 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,480 you kids got to remember that we've been doing this show. I've been doing 167 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:11,480 this show since two thousand and two, which is like two years before the 168 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:15,679 word podcast happened. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm the new guy. 169 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:16,919 I only did it. I was only a guest in two thousand and four. 170 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,679 So we're going to rename this show. Three old guys talk about the 171 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:28,080 old times. There, very old guys, that's true. We're all grayer 172 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,559 on this video. Oh my god. Yeah, So Rocky, what's up? 173 00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:39,519 What's new? Hey? I am talking to you from well Sunny Palm 174 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,360 Springs, California. What's up with that? Iway was expecting he has to 175 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,960 share snow stories because you're supposed to be in Minnesota. That's well, and 176 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,960 that's why I'm not in Minnesota right there. Very good. My wife and 177 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,600 I are like, yeah, let's get out of here before it gets too 178 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,559 bad, and quite enough of that. Yeah, are your kids grown and 179 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:05,720 gone now, Rocky, They are, ye ye. The oldest is well 180 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:11,879 married and they just bought their house, and the younger one just got engaged. 181 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,960 He just proposed to his longtime girlfriends. So very exciting and that's excellent. 182 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,840 One of them's a bass player too, right, Yeah, actually both 183 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:24,679 well, both of them are amazing musicians. But the oldest one plays bass 184 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:31,120 in tuba and the younger one well now primarily is the lead guitar in his 185 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,320 band, but he plays everything kind of he's kind of like you, Carl, 186 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:41,480 he's puts and I remember you and I had this conversation, probably with 187 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:48,279 my son actually, about how it's you know, he's got talent, right, 188 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,679 just kind of a natural talent, but that by itself doesn't do anything 189 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:58,559 unless you put in the work and you see people like him and you get 190 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:03,600 up on age and just to the rest of us, effortlessly, you know, 191 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,919 do tear it up. Tear it up. And people come up to 192 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,399 me, they say, how long have you been playing? And I say, 193 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,679 oh, about twenty minutes. No, you're right, you have to 194 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:20,480 do every day and people don't realize that they think, Oh, you know, 195 00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:22,720 that's why people think that people are born with this ability, like they 196 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:26,960 can just it just oozes out of them. And well it does after forty 197 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:30,360 years of doing the same thing every day, you know. I mean, 198 00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:35,759 I do think there's some innate, you know, talent or something that some 199 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:39,879 people have and others maybe have less of. But honestly, I'm not so 200 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,159 sure. I mean, when I started taking piano lessons when I was three, 201 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,879 it was really really hard, four or five or whatever it was, 202 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,960 it was really really hard. And you know, it was only because my 203 00:13:50,039 --> 00:13:54,799 mother made me practice. And I don't mean like you're going out of practice, 204 00:13:54,799 --> 00:14:00,159 honey, I mean you've been practice. I encourage you to read the 205 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:03,919 book Talent is Overrated I have, Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell yeah, and then 206 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,240 yeah, And it's because this was a couple of psychologists that were going to 207 00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:15,840 go define talent and in the process found out it doesn't exist. Interesting, 208 00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:20,399 Yeah, that you can always find other evidence of effort, an environment and 209 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,799 upbringing. Yeah. Oh god. Clara, my youngest daughter, who's twenty 210 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,240 one now, she said to me when I was in Spain visiting her. 211 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,080 She said, Dad, I'm really mad at you, like, why cause 212 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:41,039 you didn't make me practice. I'm like, well, this is a fine 213 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,240 how do you do? Right? It's like you didn't want to and you 214 00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:48,559 wouldn't and I did try. Yeah, yeah, didn't try hard enough. 215 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,679 But yeah no, I really you know, I would read the book Talent 216 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:56,480 is Overrated and just watch the journey these folks went on to try and quantify 217 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:03,480 talent and realize behind every remarkable set of abilities is a big pile of effort. 218 00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:05,480 Yeah. Absolutely, What did he say, ten thousand hours is what 219 00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:09,200 it takes. Well, that's another set of metrics. But it was the 220 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,679 big thing, you know. It was things like why are athletes consistently born 221 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,360 in January? Top tier athletes are born in January February, right, because 222 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,840 of the way the schools select their grades, so they tend to be biggest 223 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:24,480 in the class, which means they're quote talented, which means they get additional 224 00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:28,159 training. Yeah, there was a thing about hockey players in Canada. That's 225 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,279 right. It applies there for the same and for exactly the same reason, 226 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,960 because of the way the system works. But it's always the same case that 227 00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:39,840 you get into as soon as you dig in a little, because they were 228 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:43,519 perceived as talented, they got extra training, and the extra training is the 229 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:46,360 important part. Well, and this pertains to programming as well. I mean, 230 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,600 if you don't practice all that, if you're not doing it all the 231 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:52,759 time, after a while, you kind of atrophy and you forget things. 232 00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:58,399 And I'm also it's amazing how little practice we do. We tend to just 233 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:03,519 do do the work, and so you rarely I feel like you press. 234 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,320 You rarely press against the edges of your skill unless you do it intentionally. 235 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:10,000 Like the bypart of this is we're prone to pick the new library to not 236 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,399 want to build the app the same way again, even though it's you know, 237 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,240 talk about bad bridge building. It's like, well that bridge work great, 238 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,159 I'm never doing that again. I'm going to do it a totally different 239 00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,679 way this time. Fortunately, in our business, there's so many shiny new 240 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:29,120 toys that we can play with that it's not it's not a sacrifice. Like 241 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,679 I just just sorted a Quest three and only because Jeff Fritz told me that 242 00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:41,360 you can program it with Maui. Because it's an essentially an Android device, 243 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,960 you can write a Maui app and run it on your Quest three. So 244 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,679 I'm like, I'm all over that, honey. I got to buy one 245 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,799 of these. It's gonna cost one thousand dollars. And she's like, yeah, 246 00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:53,039 okay, whatever, it's for work. She didn't say that, by 247 00:16:53,080 --> 00:17:00,360 the way, she was like, what's it for? Don't you have one? 248 00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:07,720 Anyway, no quession. Let's talk about CSLA eight, Rocky. I'm 249 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:12,720 happy to talk about that. I'm having a blast speaking of, you know, 250 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:22,079 learning new things and actually I suppose doing practice. It's yeah. CSLA 251 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,880 of course has been around in one form or another since nineteen ninety six, 252 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,200 I want to say ninety seven. Yeah, And you know, it's just 253 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,839 for me at its core. Hopefully it provides great value to a whole lot 254 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:42,039 of people, but for me personally, it's the way that I get to 255 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,200 go out and learn whatever is new and shiny, right, and yeah, 256 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,640 you know, so, CSLA eight is primarily about dot net eight, and 257 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:56,440 really the thing that has changed the most between dot net seven and dot net 258 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:04,200 eight is Blazer and trying to figure out the depths of these changes that have 259 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:11,519 happened in Blazer and make CSLA continue to work. It's been quite challenging. 260 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:17,200 I gotta say, it's a It really forces a person to dig into parts 261 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,119 of dot Net and Blazer that I hopefully most people never have to look at. 262 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:25,559 Right now, do you do a new c SLA version for every version 263 00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:30,839 of dot Net? Typically? I try. And also for some years now 264 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:38,079 we've been doing semantic versioning, so we store up all of the breaking changes, 265 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,759 and you know, so nowadays once a year we get to release all 266 00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:52,599 the breaking changes. Yeah surprised, Yeah, exactly, you know. And 267 00:18:52,039 --> 00:18:56,119 so yeah, if Microsoft were to change their cadence, then we might have 268 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,359 to reevaluate, right, because you know, once a year is fine. 269 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,640 In fact, that's probably as fast as anybody would ever want. But there's 270 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,160 plenty of people pushing saying it's too fast. Still, Yeah, oh, 271 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:14,319 absolutely right, absolutely right. And you know, both both the dot net 272 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,200 stuff and and the c s l A, you know, every every breaking 273 00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:23,599 change has a real cost to everybody that uses you know, your framework or 274 00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:27,240 your tool or whatever it is, and trying to keep that in mind and 275 00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:33,519 minimize the impact is an important piece of any long term project, I think. 276 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,640 But how do how do you why do you need a breaking change at 277 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,279 this point? Is it really really an art re architecture or is it just 278 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,559 reflecting breaking changes in the framework, so they come in different flavors, I 279 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:52,759 guess sometimes, you know, and when dot net introduces generics or you know, 280 00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:59,599 Blazer absolutely requires that you support dependency injection or you can't play right then, 281 00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:03,119 or a sink and a weight, you know, these these are things 282 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,759 that you have to adopt, I believe, right, in order to remain 283 00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:12,920 modern and current. And yeah, otherwise why are you calling it eight? 284 00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:15,799 Yeah? Yeah, why are you using c s l A if you're not 285 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,480 using generics? Otherwise, why are you using CSLA? That's right? Yeah. 286 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:26,799 If if CSLA quits working, you know, with Blazer, then what's 287 00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:30,839 the point? And you know, so I so some of them, I'm 288 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,720 like a victim of you know what I mean? And yeah, right, 289 00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:37,519 yeah, no, you you should support Blazer. Blazer requires dependency injection, 290 00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:41,079 tada, you have to make major changes. You should try having a website 291 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:51,599 with one hundred Blazer videos on YouTube with accompanying repos of code and trying to 292 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,119 stay current on that. As a Dante PA probably get done by the time 293 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,079 dot Net nine comes out, ye right, right, but our horrible process. 294 00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:03,359 But I always have to say, you know, this is for dot 295 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,880 A if you want dot net seven, watch this video, go to this 296 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:15,599 repo. It's it's gonna get fun. The other big category is feature enhancements 297 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:22,200 or tech debt, right, that are not imposed by Mike, you know, 298 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:26,799 essentially not imposed by the platform. But you know, I keep learning 299 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:30,519 and the people that use c SLA, the community, you know, comes 300 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:33,880 in and says, hey, you know, why does it why does this 301 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,400 work this way? Wouldn't it be better if it worked that other way? 302 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,480 And you know, sometimes we'll go back and forth, have a conversation, 303 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,759 and sometimes the answer is no, it should stay the way it is. 304 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:48,200 But other times it's like, you know, you're right, the world has 305 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:52,839 changed, or we got we got it wrong when we built this piece of 306 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,839 this feature ten years ago. Yeah, yeah, or was it right at 307 00:21:56,839 --> 00:22:00,960 the time, Like I got to imagine, often you get suggested that this 308 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,559 would be a better way, and in the first couple of times it said, 309 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:06,759 you're like, nah, it's not sufficiently different. But then more time 310 00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:11,400 passes and the environments passed. It suddenly that weird idea two years ago is 311 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:18,799 getting rather mainstream now. Absolutely right, absolutely, and yeah and again, 312 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:22,440 you know, I try to minimize these breaking changes because there's a such a 313 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:29,440 huge cost to people. But sometimes, you know, independency injection and acinc 314 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,279 and a weight are two that were really tremendous. They had just you know, 315 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,319 because they're they're viral. As soon as you start using acinc and a 316 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:44,759 weight in your code, it spreads everywhere and a good way. Right, 317 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:49,759 well, it is a good way, but it forces all your consumers to 318 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:57,519 adopt it to right. And dependency yeah, yeah, and dependen the injection 319 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,519 is the same thing as soon as you aren't using it. You know, 320 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,400 a whole lot of things that were pretty common, you know, like using 321 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,920 static helper methods to do to simplify some coding. You can't use static methods 322 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,559 and dependency injection. They don't go together. And so yeah, one or 323 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:22,119 the other. Yeah, and uh. And then you also consider like Blazer 324 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,200 for example, just web programming in general, in async. You know, 325 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:30,559 a web request is a synchronous operation. If you think about it, I 326 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,880 send a request, I get a response. Something changes. But now with 327 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:41,400 frameworks like Blazer, little pieces of the UI can update independent of other pieces 328 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,440 of the UI. And you know, if when do you call a weight 329 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:52,240 invoke, a sync state has changed versus state has changed, you know, 330 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,880 when you know these questions, Like most people who come from a you know, 331 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:03,079 a Windows let's say program background and then get into the web me I 332 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,119 understand this stuff. It's like, why when do I do that? Yeah, 333 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,400 that's true. Although I think if you're coming from WPF into Blazer it's 334 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:18,799 a little easier because for a lot of WPF apps things have been async for 335 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,440 a long time. It's true, the very old stuff was probably still synchronous. 336 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,519 But you know, and Windows Forms that's the one, right if you've 337 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:32,599 got a Windows Forms code base and that's been your life, yea, all 338 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,559 the stuff. Yeah, you've been thinking syncrasy for a long time. By 339 00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:40,160 the way, Rocky, we I think we say this every time we talk 340 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,440 to you, but I did it. I'm actually not done yet. I'm 341 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,640 working on a Windows Forms project for a friend of mine who's got a little 342 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,920 software company dealing with machines and stuff. So he's reading from data from an 343 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,519 industrial machine that's doing something, spinning out some CSB data. I'm graphing it, 344 00:24:56,599 --> 00:24:59,920 doing some standard deviation and charting and all that stuff. And it's fun. 345 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:06,759 But it's really been amazing, Like how how much I missed Windows Forms 346 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:12,440 the designer and wind Forms is the anomaly. Yeah, right, like never 347 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,240 to seems to be never to be repeated. This one one great designer that 348 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:21,680 we are are prone to measuring everything against. And I always say the same 349 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,359 thing here is because it's pixel based and the world moved on from pixels into 350 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:33,400 you know, everything else sort of flow based, flow based yep, yep, 351 00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:40,160 yeah, and we could just go back to pixels. Well yeah, 352 00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:45,559 you know, but no, that's not even true. I mean Windows Forms 353 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:49,519 at the end, I guess at the end, what what end are we 354 00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:53,480 talking about? Yeah? Right, wait when it when it quit changing radically? 355 00:25:55,799 --> 00:26:02,000 Yeah, it was twousand and five. Yeah, had the reflow capabilities 356 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:07,559 and you could handle huge screens and little screens and all the things that HTML 357 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:14,200 and xamble were designed to solve. And yet somehow Windows Forms did it in 358 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:21,400 a way that was still dragons drop, still dragon drop. Yeah. That 359 00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:26,519 was old quote of yours about why w p F E was succeeding when w 360 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,400 PF was struggling because his w p F E a k a. Silver Light 361 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,519 was designed for the web and in the web development were used to lousy tools. 362 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:42,400 Yeah, so I'm curious as to what you did for Blazer in c 363 00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:47,559 s l A in dot Net eight, that was different for Blazer and dot 364 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,440 Net seven. Well, the big thing there's there's several but but the biggest 365 00:26:52,480 --> 00:27:02,240 thing in Blazer eight is this new blended model with different rendering, right. 366 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:10,240 So, yeah, and even the default template for a Blazer app. Now, 367 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,880 the home page is a server static page. Uh, the weather page 368 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:25,839 is a server static streaming page, and the counter page runs in web assembly 369 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:32,160 in the browser or server or both, or server or both. And yeah, 370 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,799 but it's the only page with interactivity, and in all cases it server 371 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,160 pre renders the counter page does, which isn't always obvious if you're especially in 372 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:48,759 a dev environment. But when you start trying to, for example, say 373 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:52,960 that I would like to have some sort of consistent state within my app, 374 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,039 you know, in prior to this point, your consistency state could always be 375 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:06,480 managed in a scope service, whether that was on Blazer, server or web 376 00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:11,960 assembly, because your code was always always running within a consistent DEI scope dependency 377 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:18,079 injection scope. Well, now on a server static page, every time that 378 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,240 page gets rendered, a scope is created and destroyed for the life of the 379 00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:27,559 page. Rendering that fraction of a second. And if your code is running 380 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:33,119 on WASM, you get a scope for the length that you're running in WASM, 381 00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:37,799 and if you're running in a server interactive mode, you get a scope 382 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,519 for the length that you're running in server interactive. But you think about that 383 00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:45,519 counterpage. It server pre renders, so a scope is created, it server 384 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:52,000 pre renders, then the scope is destroyed, then the page flickers because it 385 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,319 switched to WASM, for example, and a new scope is created, and 386 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:04,119 so any attempt on your part to maintain consistent state is just gone. It's 387 00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:08,480 very hard and until everything settles in. And I noticed this in the in 388 00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:12,559 the basic web assembly thing. You know, if you, for example, 389 00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:18,000 put a button on the homepage and give the homepage some interactivity, that you 390 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:21,160 could try clicking that button the first time you see it, but it ain't 391 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:26,160 going to happen until web assembly comes down, and then you're going to get 392 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:32,920 your on after render with the first render set to true and then now now 393 00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:37,079 you can use it well. And that's that comes just ignoring the CSLA aspects. 394 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,200 That's a UI design thing, right, and I think Microsoft in their 395 00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:47,279 template should have done a better job, like with the counter page of showing 396 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:52,960 how you that button. The counter button should have been disabled until it becomes 397 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,559 interactive, which you can do. But it's left. It's kind of like 398 00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:00,640 a math problem, right It's it's left to the left, up to the 399 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,880 reader to figure out how to do this thing. Right, We're still trying 400 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:10,279 to sort out how automode is useful right now. It really isn't because there's 401 00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:12,200 an outstanding bug. This is a bug that I found and I went to 402 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,480 report it, and I missed it by four hours. Somebody had added it 403 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:22,160 as a bug, and then Steve Sanderson jumped in and everybody and they confirmed, 404 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,480 yep, this is a problem. So if you're in automode, what's 405 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,480 supposed to happen is youmediately should get a server side rendered you know, Blazer 406 00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:36,480 server interactivity. So when I clicked that button on the homepage like that I 407 00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:40,680 was just talking about, you shouldn't have that. You should have that server 408 00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:45,920 rendering immediately, the server side code. But what ends up happening is it 409 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:52,039 works just like the web assembly template, which is that nothing works until web 410 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:57,119 assembly comes down, and then you get this brief moment of server interactivity, 411 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,920 and then when you refresh the page, you're in WASM. Yep, ye, 412 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,599 so that's a bug that they're working on it, buddy. That'll just 413 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,880 make it more complicated though, yeah, because it will go through three modes 414 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,240 instead of two. Well you already have three, right, well, but 415 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:18,480 a service side rendering for the very first page, and then you when WASM 416 00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:22,119 comes down, you finally get server, and then when you refresh, you 417 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:27,759 get WASM. This is the way it works. So the so I initially 418 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,480 I wrote a blog post actually because I worked through a solution, a solution 419 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:40,839 to this problem, which is if you ignore the WASM piece, it's actually 420 00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:48,400 not too bad because you can maintain an in memory cash. You have to 421 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,559 figure out some way to have a unique identifier for the user, which I 422 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,200 used a cookie with a guid right, pretty straightforward, and then you can 423 00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:04,079 look up the user's state over and over again. Every time the scope gets 424 00:32:04,119 --> 00:32:07,519 recreated, you go back and look up the state and grab it, right, 425 00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:14,880 so the user can have consistent state across all these spaces. And you 426 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,640 might be telling me, Rocky, you shouldn't have any global state. I'm 427 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,279 like, well, in a business app, you have to. In a 428 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,480 business app, you know, you've got to know the user's department or I 429 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,440 mean there's just all sorts of stuff that you have to have, right. 430 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:34,359 I solve this problem, rocky by using a cascating app state component and you 431 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,039 know, implementing that as a cascading parameter. And that seems to work really 432 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:42,720 really well, but doesn't bridge to WASM and then back that's the question. 433 00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:45,119 Yeah, it seems too. If you mute, if you mutate the state 434 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,480 on the WASM side, does it go back to the server, because I 435 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,079 are you talking about having mixed So if you have one page with server interactivity 436 00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:58,079 and one page with WASM interactivity, does it work across both? Yes, 437 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,519 I'm talking about that default template where or maybe? So here's the thing I 438 00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:05,720 think, Carl, is when you look at this new render mode, I 439 00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:12,200 find it very compelling because most apps have a lot of pages that just show 440 00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:17,559 data and then some pages that are very interactive. And so the ability to 441 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:23,519 have server static, static rendered pages that just do the show data part, 442 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,079 I mean, that's so fast and simple and awesome, and I want that 443 00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:34,119 and seamlessly. I want when the user goes to a page that's a data 444 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,680 entry page, I want that to happen. Right, you want the WASM 445 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:40,720 quick interaction effect well or server side I mean either way, but yeah, 446 00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:44,400 that's absolutely right. What I don't want is if you have a static home 447 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,079 page and then you go to one that's interactive and I want to have to 448 00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:50,359 wait for websimily to download. I want that to happen behind the scenes. 449 00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:52,799 That's what this is all about, right, Yeah, hiding the big hall. 450 00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:57,720 That's exactly what it is. Yeah, because I do think in the 451 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,400 end, especially for a large line of business apps, you do want WASM 452 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:06,279 because you want to be leveraging that client side memory and lowering the server lower. 453 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,639 So it's obvious what the solution is for the developer. Don't use like 454 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,199 per page or per component rendering. If you have state, well I would 455 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,280 pick one. I would pick web assembly, which you're going to have that 456 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,880 bonk in the beginning. But then after web assembly is downloaded, it's cashed 457 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,639 and all that stuff, and you've got your state or read my blog post 458 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:29,760 Carl, and just it works, and now I built it into CSLA. 459 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,639 That's that's the even better problem. Yeah, that's what we're talking. If 460 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:39,639 you're using CSLA, then all this this problem has been solved within the framework 461 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:45,239 and hopefully at some point Microsoft solves it inside of Blazer, right, but 462 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:50,800 in the meantime, you know, they the last I was seeing on any 463 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,880 of the stuff on GitHub for Blazer as well, we might consider doing it 464 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,199 for dot net nine and uh that stinks. So yeah, it's not going 465 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,679 to happen soon. And gentlemen, I got to interrupt for one moment for 466 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:10,280 it was a very important message. Then we're back. It's dot in a 467 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,960 rocks. I'm Richard Campbell, that's Carl Franklin. Hey, hey, and 468 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:17,800 over there is Rocky Lock hanging out in the sun. Because that's unfair. 469 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,559 I'm going to send some Minnesota snow to you Internet. Yeah, thank you 470 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,039 much. This is the reward for empty nesting that you can just go. 471 00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:35,639 You know, what we could do is work from Palm Springs and right, 472 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,679 as long as you got internet, life is good. Yeah, you make 473 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:45,760 it work. I appreciate the render modes and really overcoming these issues of how 474 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,920 do we make this perform where we'll still all those benefits, Like it does 475 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:52,440 feel like they're smoothing off the edges of the challenge of working with WASM, 476 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,480 which is just this kind of hefty initial load. Yep, yeah, I 477 00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:00,400 mean they're doing, they're moving in the right direction. I got to say, 478 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:07,599 it feels like the mixed render mode stuff in dot Net eight isn't complete. 479 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,880 No it's not. Yeah, it is V one of what they called 480 00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:15,559 universal right, yeah, exactly they were. There's the thing though, they 481 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:19,880 were so excited about saying, now you can just sprinkle interactivity wherever you want. 482 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,960 You want a little ASM over here, you want little server over there, 483 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,639 and that's all cool. But as Rocky is saying, reek's havoc with 484 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:30,960 dependency injection in any kind of state management. So I say, pick pick 485 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,400 one web assembly or server, make it global, and use that for now. 486 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,559 And and I totally appreciate that, Carl, I really do. But 487 00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:49,280 I want it all. So this is what I've been Yeah, I want 488 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,840 it all, and I want it now. So that, yeah, that 489 00:36:54,519 --> 00:37:01,880 that state thing was is one big issue. Another one is user identity being 490 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:09,239 consistent across all of these render modes, and there appears to be I don't 491 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,559 know if it's an intentional like feature thing, or if it's a bug. 492 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:20,719 It's we've we've got some discussion on the Blazer GitHub about this. But sometimes 493 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:30,039 well you can always use the authentication state provider in the UI, but it's 494 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:35,400 disallowed for some reason in library code. And so if you've got a DLL 495 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,840 with business logic, in that business logic includes needing to know the user identity, 496 00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:45,480 which is no, it says it's not allowed for use. And so 497 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,280 I actually have such a terrible message. It's terrible, isn't it all? 498 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,440 Right? It's like, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a runtime message 499 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,679 that comes up and says, yes, the service is not allowed in this 500 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,679 kind of text or something to that effect. Right, So you had to 501 00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:07,760 put some band aids around that so they can inject something that looks like a 502 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,400 principle just for the requirements. Right. Well, actually, what I did 503 00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:17,400 is I created an abstract way to get at the current user that either pulls 504 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,599 it from HTTP context or from the authentication state provider, depending on which one's 505 00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:29,039 actually available. I thought we weren't supposed to use HTTP context anymore. Well, 506 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,119 they changed the way that all works in Blazer eight. In Blazer six 507 00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:38,079 and seven you really couldn't use it because it wasn't consistent and or available. 508 00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:43,360 But now because of the way the server rendering stuff works. I want to 509 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:50,360 say, I can't tell you why but you can actually use it when in 510 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:57,719 the cases that you can't get at the authentication state provider, HTTP context appears 511 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,719 to always be available and stable. Wow, yeah, it's it's rocky lock 512 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,719 Alazer. Gentlemen, He'll be here for another twenty minutes. Try to feel 513 00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:10,280 Yeah, but also these are things you know we'll have to revise after nine 514 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,320 Oh, I hope these are. This feels like placeholder code. It's like, 515 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,639 for now, we will do this. Yes, it sure feels so. 516 00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:22,840 Really, what you're saying is that CSLA eight, if you're not using 517 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,880 it with Blazer in dot net eight, you're a fool. It sounds like 518 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,559 that. I like, I want to use this everywhere now. Well, 519 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,880 I mean hopefully CSLA continues to be super useful for your other code too. 520 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,440 But yes, I'm trying desperately to tackle these really big issues in Blazer eight. 521 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,719 But I think you're also bridging the path for folks who've built with CSLA 522 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,239 for wind forms. It's like, if you want to go Blazer, you 523 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,320 can. Yes, yes, not a huge leap. That is exactly right. 524 00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:57,599 Yeah, that's been forever. That's been the promise of CSLA, right, 525 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:04,159 is you can switch youI technology geez with minimal and zero hopefully zero, 526 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,679 but the most minimal change to your business logic and domain model and stuff. 527 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,119 Yeah, and I appreciate that like this, You've done all this work to 528 00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,159 make a good domain model for your business, you know, but you do 529 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,400 need to change clients. That's the demand. Although I got to think the 530 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,960 shifting CSLA to the cloud was not a trivial thing back in the day either. 531 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,760 Well, but CSLA was designed initially from the ground up to be a 532 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:37,800 distributed world or distributed tool, and so yeah, shifting to the cloud certainly 533 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:43,760 like things like kubernedes, we did all sorts of cool stuff that became possible, 534 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,599 but it didn't impact It had no breaking change, you know, Like 535 00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:52,559 right, you didn't take a dependency that needed a VM anywhere. No, 536 00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:55,320 no to make it hard, you know, make expensive to run in a 537 00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,800 cloud. Everybody's existing code. You just could choose to deploy it in the 538 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,679 cloud or not. And yay. Right, as an in app service, 539 00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:09,519 I presume app service and then ultimately containers and right, and then and then 540 00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:14,920 what we did do is add a bunch of cool features, for like routing 541 00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:20,360 to subgroups of containers that are running you know, you think about kubernetes. 542 00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:24,360 You know, you might have some pods that are running on machines that have 543 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,159 GPUs and other pods that are not and and so right, and so you 544 00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:34,679 want to wear cloth specific routing, and so CSLA supports that. So you 545 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,679 can say, well, this n you know, this particular object, this 546 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:44,239 class business class has to run on a server that has a GPU versus, 547 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,480 right, you know others don't. So yeah, and you don't want to 548 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,519 provision everything with GPUs because they're charged a ton for those these days, the 549 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:57,159 exactly are everybody does? That's great? Yeah, but you know that's really 550 00:41:57,199 --> 00:42:02,199 the cloud natification of c s l A. Yeah, natification. Natification. 551 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,199 I love that word. You told me last week to make new words. 552 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:15,119 I'm just following constructions, oh man. But I mean, isn't it amazing 553 00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:20,760 to think in those terms now that we literally need to route by workload requirement 554 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,000 for cost efficiency? Right? I mean most people don't, let's let's be 555 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:29,159 fair, right, but when you do, you really do. And having 556 00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:32,800 that capability right yeah. Yeah, And same thing with this diversity of client 557 00:42:34,039 --> 00:42:37,679 it's like more and more choices for working on on these clients and and the 558 00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:43,840 advantages that they have. Right, Well, apparently Carl was just telling me 559 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,599 that I can run CSLA on what was it an Oculus or what was that? 560 00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:52,480 Oh yeah, Quest three ques three right right right? Yeah, the 561 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,119 android Maui. Yeah, yeah, because CSLA works great in Maui too. 562 00:42:57,199 --> 00:43:00,679 So there you go, go c s l A on a on a Quest 563 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:06,440 three. That's now I need to go buy a Quest three. You're going 564 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:07,960 to be able to talk to she who must be obeyed about it. It's 565 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,480 a business expense. It's a business expense. And beat Saber, but you 566 00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:17,960 know whatever, all right, you guys don't hate play games like you talk 567 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,239 about the definitive VR game, Like the game it's Beat Saber. Just is 568 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,519 it all right? Beat Saber? Yeah? Oh yes, I think I 569 00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,760 played that. You've seen it, the two lightsabers cutting things apart as they 570 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,320 go by. Yeah, that's right. Like, look, it's hard to 571 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,360 find a good VR game. VR games are difficult. Most games don't adapt 572 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,360 well to VR, like first person shooters is VR is a mistake? Man, 573 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:49,719 that's like instant nausea, right, I mean, but somehow I my 574 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,679 current I got one of Oculus Rift or something like that. Yeah, it's 575 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:59,280 quite old now, but I got it because Elite dangerous the spaceship right right, 576 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,440 And I don't understand this, And you might know, Richard, why 577 00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:07,480 is it that I get instant nausea with like a first person shooter thing? 578 00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:10,840 Yes, but man, I can fly a spaceship for a long time and 579 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,239 I never have any issues at all, no problem. I mean I have 580 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,079 friends who are in the gaming industry who, when the VR thing came on, 581 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,079 worked on trying to fix games. The main problem with first person shooters 582 00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:29,400 is that you move way faster to first person shooter than is normal. Like 583 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:30,800 you literally, like for a Call of Duty, that kind of game, 584 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,920 you're running at thirty miles an hour because it's boring if you're not. And 585 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,599 as soon as you put that in your face where the perception of speed is 586 00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:45,239 more relevant, your body is deeply concerned. Like it triggers things where you 587 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,559 never have a sense of speed in space. It's not there. You're just 588 00:44:47,639 --> 00:44:51,760 drew. You know, you're just moving. It's on the directional view. 589 00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,800 It's not actually effects of acceleration. And that's what's making a nauseous is your 590 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:02,840 body believes it's accelerating that isn't getting the right signals to your balance center and 591 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,320 so things you're poisoned, and so it tries to make you throw everything up. 592 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:12,400 Hey, guys, I just found this while you guys were talking that 593 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,519 that whole issue that I brought up about auto render mode looks like that was 594 00:45:16,559 --> 00:45:20,000 closed. And I'm going to read from the lank and i'll give you the 595 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:25,199 link show notes. Yeah, so it says Auto render Mode Improvements improves the 596 00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:30,840 auto render modes so that components are more response and have a decreased initial time 597 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,719 to interactivity when web assembly resources are not already cased. So these are the 598 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:43,159 improvements. Removes the time out for loading the boot canfig This prevents server interactivity 599 00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,840 from always being used when the connection quality is poor. Introduces a limit to 600 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,559 the maximum parallel web assembly resource downloads when an auto component initiates the startup of 601 00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:57,400 the web assembly run time. This limit is set to one and overrides any 602 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,320 user specific limit and fixes an issue where the circuit sometimes remains open even if 603 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:06,320 web assembly gets selected for auto inner activity. So there you go, they're 604 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,199 working on it. Let's cool. Film at eleven. I'll go, I'm 605 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:10,599 gonna check it out and I'll tell you how it works. Well, like 606 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,639 Sanderson's doing the reviews, so I'm in confidence level high. Yeah. Well, 607 00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,360 you know, I got to I don't know who the person is who 608 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,320 did this particular work with McMillan, McKinnon, Buck mcmannon Buck. Yeah, 609 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,480 but I'm looking down the reviews and I gotta think. When you get a 610 00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:30,760 comment from Steve Sanderson about your code and the comment is looks great, Yeah, 611 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:37,639 that's gotta be a good dayne oh Man. Well and he's Sanderson thinks 612 00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:39,679 my work looks great. Well, and he said, you know when I 613 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,519 because he didn't, he wasn't confident that this was a real bug. So 614 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,679 I went and published it to Azure and did the things that he asked me 615 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,320 to, and he's like, yeah, that's a bug, guy, So 616 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,239 we have to get on this right away. Nice. Yeah, so I'm 617 00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,000 happy to have contributed to this. Oh and yeah, the contributor is actually 618 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,199 Microsoft employee too. Yep, So there you go. Awesome, that's real 619 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,320 time work for a recorded show. I know, right, well, but 620 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,039 that is the thing, right. The Blazer team, and this is part 621 00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:16,119 of why I'm so happy to be involved with and heavily invested in Blazer is 622 00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:20,480 because of exactly this, right. I mean, they're just it's a very 623 00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:25,119 active group, very responsive to get HUB issues. Maybe not always responsive in 624 00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:29,840 the way that I would like, but they're not necessarily agreeing with you, 625 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,039 but they are disagreeing with you in real time. And that's fine. You 626 00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:37,159 know. I do that with people that contribute or you know, come into 627 00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:38,960 CSLA sometimes too. They're like, yeah, blah blah blah, and I'm 628 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,320 like, yeah, that's you know, interest, I hear you, but 629 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,039 it's not the right thing or you know, you gotta admit though. I 630 00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:51,280 mean, you must feel like Yoda sometimes when people bring things to you, 631 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,880 a dark spot in the force, I see you. Well, you know. 632 00:47:57,039 --> 00:48:00,079 So yeah, just about a month ago, somebody contacted me and we 633 00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:06,880 did some work. It had a really complicated, well have set of business 634 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,519 logic, which is the I mean, CSLA should be perfect for that, 635 00:48:09,559 --> 00:48:15,239 and they built it with CSLA and this one page that was going through like 636 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,840 all these super complicated rules and it could take a minute or two to finish 637 00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:29,119 and which is ridiculous, right, And so we were looking through this whole 638 00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:37,480 thing, and part of it was that Blazer was refreshing the UI constantly because 639 00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:43,440 there were fields that were being changed, so we disconnected during this big process, 640 00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:46,960 disconnect the UI, right, and so there's no binding that sped it 641 00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:52,280 up by thirty seconds all by itself. Because the way that Blazer you monitors 642 00:48:52,480 --> 00:49:00,440 the background dom can it can And this is not unique to Blazer, Windows 643 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,920 forms WPF. We've had this sort of issue forever where data binding can be 644 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:13,440 overly aggressive. Right. But then the other thing is that pretty much all 645 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:21,000 these rules needed the user identity and they didn't want to cash the user identity 646 00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:25,039 because they want like they want admins to be able to go revoke your rights 647 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,960 in the middle of using the app. Oh yeah, the customers love that. 648 00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:32,559 And I'm like, well, but couldn't you cash? Couldn't you cash 649 00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:37,760 it for like just ten seconds? Right? Can you give me some warning? 650 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:42,320 So we ended up adding into CSLA and this is the thing, right, 651 00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,800 So CSLA eight now, and this was not a breaking change. It's 652 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:52,719 just like this transparent enhancement where you can turn on cashing for certain types and 653 00:49:52,760 --> 00:50:00,639 say I would like you to cash this user identity query and you know, 654 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:06,159 for ten seconds and what Basically we went from one to two minutes to run 655 00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,719 this page down to like two seconds. Wow, wow between the just for 656 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,679 a little bit of cashing, a little bit of cashing and stopping the UI 657 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,960 from data binding refresh constantly. Yep then right yeah, So I don't know 658 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,159 if that makes me feel like Yoda exactly, but it man, that is 659 00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:28,320 I mean talk about satisfying when we were done with that. I just that 660 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,519 gives you a warm, happy feeling, right, Yeah, especially for something 661 00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:39,000 around the survivors a perimeter create. Yeah, but I I love that sort 662 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,559 of shirt duration cash taking pain away too, right, Like we're not doing 663 00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:45,920 any voodoo cashing here. You're not going to wait for you deal with a 664 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,320 lot of expiring and so on. It's just hey, this is going to 665 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,079 get called a ton so if we hang on it for just a little while, 666 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,400 we're going to save a lot of external calls. Yeah exactly right. 667 00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:01,000 Yeah, in this case probablybably one hundred or two hundred. I mean it 668 00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:07,480 was just amazing. Yeah, yeah, great worker, great solution. It 669 00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:09,320 is kind of a workaround, like it shouldn't be necessary, shouldn't be called 670 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,360 that much. But this code you can fix. His code you can't fix. 671 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,320 Yeah, yeah, that's right. You know that's just bouncing act I 672 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:24,920 just got asked to do a project in Blazer in Automode, and I said, 673 00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:29,079 you know it's broken, isn't it? And the guy wrote back and 674 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:30,519 said, no, they just fixed it. So that's how I found it. 675 00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:36,039 So there, I'm really anxious now to use this project now that it 676 00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:39,480 works. If it works, do you think they fixed it in eight one 677 00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:45,039 hundred or whatever or two hundred whatever version just came out this week or yeah, 678 00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:46,719 I don't know. I don't know, but I know that Visual Studio 679 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,440 there's an update to Visual Studio which we'll bring down the latest stut net. 680 00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:55,079 So I'm hoping that it's fixed. That's a solution. Yeah. So I 681 00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:59,920 feel like all we've talked about for CSL eight is Blazer. Is there any 682 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:02,239 thing else that's important? I mean eight is faster than seven, but I 683 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,039 don't know there's much for CSOLA to do there. Yeah, that's the interesting 684 00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:08,519 thing is yes it is. You know, there's so many better things, 685 00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:16,320 but they're automatic. There were very few maybe no changes. I'm trying to 686 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:21,639 think. I mean, I've been cleaning up the code, you know, 687 00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:24,039 as I go in to do some of these other things. You know, 688 00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:28,480 a Visual Studio keeps coming up and going, hey, there's this new language 689 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,559 feature you should you know, Yeah, I think there's a lot of older 690 00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:36,960 C sharp in that code base that could be quote unquote modernized. Not that 691 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,719 it's broken, just that there's new language features and so. But you know 692 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:46,159 that doesn't break anything unless you do it wrong. Well, but see, 693 00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:52,519 I just I hit what do I hit? Control? Control period and let 694 00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:55,639 the refactor thing do the refactoring and nice, you know, but I do 695 00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,039 have to say there's a couple well one in particular, it keeps one I 696 00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:06,440 need to collapse simple if else things down into uh you know, the statement 697 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:09,400 question mark block. I don't like that either. Oh I hate that. 698 00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:15,559 You know, that is readable one step too far from readability for me. 699 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,199 And I agree there's a whole lot of old C programmers that are like, 700 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,679 no, that's the way to go that way, And I'm sorry, but 701 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:30,639 I disagree that's you know, you can I said this before recently, and 702 00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:34,280 this is something that I've done when I'm writing for a customer and I'm working 703 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,480 on their code and they don't understand it. You know, I would take 704 00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:43,599 like a link statement and ask chat cheapt to explode it into four nested four 705 00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:47,840 loops with comments and then leave that as a comment in the code, so 706 00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:52,000 somebody who wasn't familiar with that syntax could actually see what's going on and you 707 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,320 can understand. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Are you seeing chat chept 708 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,599 for anything basically what you're talking about? That sort of thing? Yeah, 709 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,920 you know, I mean it's I guess I use it constantly and don't actually 710 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:13,400 think about it because it's like intell a sense on steroids, right. I 711 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,719 don't often just ask for stuff, like, you know, go to chat 712 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:22,639 GPT. I rely on copilot that's built in just to be helping me out 713 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,519 and and it is helpful, it is. I sometimes ask chat GPT to 714 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:30,559 make copilot code better. You know, is there any way to make this 715 00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:37,079 better from a non coding perspective? You know, I play tabletop role playing 716 00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:45,639 games, and so I have been using well, actually I suppose it's not 717 00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:50,960 really chat GPT. It's more dolly, isn't it, but creating various graphic 718 00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:57,039 assets to you know, liven up my uh some of the gaming and and 719 00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:02,280 uh I have started dabbling though by by providing love that providing the historical background 720 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,519 of my world because we've been playing in the same world for you know, 721 00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:15,760 like thirty five years in real time human time, So upload the historical background 722 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,480 of the world and then asking it to like write poems or create a legend 723 00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:22,960 about this hero or wow. And it's fiction anyway, so it doesn't have 724 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:28,800 to be perfect any respect, save the feel. And I'd love that pretty 725 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,920 amazing. Actually, if you want to play a fun game and you don't 726 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,159 have anything to do for the next ten minutes, good five minutes, good 727 00:55:36,159 --> 00:55:39,639 at chat GPT, and ask it to create a picture of something food, 728 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:45,039 right, whatever it is, you know, describe some food and it'll give 729 00:55:45,039 --> 00:55:47,039 you a picture and then say, okay, now make it look more delicious, 730 00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:51,360 and see what happens. And do that three or four or five times, 731 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,400 even more delicious, even more delicious, and you'll be surprised at what 732 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:59,320 you get. Does it get better, does it get horrifying? No, 733 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,559 it gets It's just more of the same. So if there was a guy 734 00:56:01,559 --> 00:56:05,360 in New York who did this with a bagel, you know, give me 735 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,559 a bagels and locks or something like this to phrase marketing, Okay, now 736 00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:13,519 make it more delicious, and it just piled on the stuff and he kept 737 00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:17,840 going until it was like you know, a square meter of meat with two 738 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,320 to that's not more delicious, that's just impossibly filling. Yeah, it's fun 739 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,840 though, you know, you can do with anything. It's like they get 740 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,760 more hot Carnegie Delli disease. Yeah, you could just say make it more 741 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,239 and then your favorite adjective and see what it does and then keep going. 742 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:42,440 Yeah, then go excessive, Give me a puppy, make it cuter, 743 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,719 make it more cute, more cute, more cute. Seven story puppy is 744 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,360 cute as puppy of all. Oh yeah, the eyes will be as big 745 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,599 as plates by the time you're done. Well, this has been a lot 746 00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:59,320 of fun, Rocky, What's next? What are you working on now? 747 00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:04,000 Well, continue to work of course on on CSLA and that sort of thing. 748 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,920 And I'm working with uh, well, what was x Spirit We just 749 00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:20,599 renamed zbia and in that context primarily doing cloud modernization type work and get up 750 00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:25,840 migrations and all sorts of cool stuff like that, and so that's pretty neat 751 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,280 and but yeah, for for me, you know, I just continue to 752 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:37,360 really be enjoying myself with with Blazer and dot net eight and and oh, 753 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:42,320 I guess the other thing that I am working on and got a new person 754 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:49,280 to jump in and help. Is a humanitarian toolbox Project Nice. That is 755 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,079 a kid's I D kit that has gone through several iterations thanks to changing web 756 00:57:55,159 --> 00:58:01,280 and mobile technologies. Right right, the current incarnation is actually a Blazer MAUI 757 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:07,280 hybrid. Cool, and I feel pretty good about Mali program, liking it 758 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,360 a lot. So that's how I only do Mali apps now unless I have 759 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,920 to hybrid hybrid. Yeah, it's more consistent. I don't know what you 760 00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,559 think, Rocky, you're still in xama Land sometimes, yes, I well, 761 00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:27,800 I think for unless you're If you're trying to create something that is has 762 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:34,840 to be really like native iOS versus native Android feeling, then the Blazer hybrid 763 00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,880 is not the way to go. But if you're trying to create something where 764 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,920 you're mostly concerned about having consistency, I don't care if you're on an iPhone 765 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,000 or an Android. I want the app to work the same way and I 766 00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:52,639 want to be able to contain the cost, then I think the Blazer Mali 767 00:58:52,719 --> 00:59:00,440 hybrid is fantastic because it gives you a pretty darn efficient from a developer cost 768 00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:05,320 perspective, way to create an app that runs on and not really just iOS 769 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,840 and Android, but also it can be a Windows and MacApp also, and 770 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,880 so it's quast three. Yeah that's true. I hadn't even thought about that 771 00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:16,840 like that. Yeah, all right, we got to run. I got 772 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,880 another show to do here. So thanks again, Rocky. It's always great 773 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,239 catching up with you. Thanks for being you. It's a pleasure, I 774 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,519 mean, thank you all very much. Trade to chat with your friend. 775 00:59:25,679 --> 00:59:51,440 Okay, we'll see you next time on dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks 776 00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:55,119 is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full 777 00:59:55,199 --> 01:00:00,639 service audio, video and post production facility located physic in New London, Connecticut, 778 01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:07,199 and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit our 779 01:00:07,239 --> 01:00:10,000 website at d O T N E t R O c k S dot com 780 01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:15,880 for RSS feeds, downloads, mobile apps, comments, and access to the 781 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:20,519 full archives going back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand and 782 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:23,000 two. And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us in 783 01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:31,280 business. Now go write some code, see you next time. You got jamdavans and