WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm
Tanya, and together we are Crimes and

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Consequences, a true crime podcast.
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of

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Crimes and Consequences. I'm Tanya and
I'm Teleia, and we are a couple

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of lawyers in real life. You
like to say the F word a bit,

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yep, And we have a podcast, and we have a podcast and

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you're watching it right now. I'm
True Crime Daily. Were listening, yes,

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and we appreciate you all. And
before we get into today's episode,

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just like to remind everyone to hit
the subscribe or follow button or like on

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whatever app if you're watching on YouTube, if you could do that, that

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would be great. And now we're
going to get into the episode today.

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Have you heard about the Stay Family? No? I was thinking you were

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talking about the Mixed Day. No, isn't that Okay, isn't it?

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I think so? But nope,
that's not the right one. Okay,

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Nope. And then I don't know, all right, No, I don't

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know what to tell me I will
share with me. July ninth, twenty

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fourteen started off as just another beautiful
summer day in suburban Houston, Texas,

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Okay. The Stay family consisted of
seven people. There was mom and dad,

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Katie and Stephen. Katie was thirty
three and Steven was thirty nine,

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and their five children. Wow,
five five they got more than me,

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I know. Wow. Fifteen year
old Cassidy, thirteen year old Brian,

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nine year old Emily, seven year
old Rebecca, and the baby of the

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family, four year old Zarachree.
On this particular Wednesday, Katie and Stephen

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were out running errands and had left
the children at home with the eldest,

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Cassidy. At the helm Cassidy and
her brother's sisters. They were just hanging

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out around the house and they lived
in Spring, Texas. When the doorbell

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rang, Spring Texas. That sounds
nice, it does, Cassidy answered it,

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and when she opened the door,
there was a man dressed in a

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FedEx uniform. It's got a package, right. The man asked Cassidy to

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see her parents, and she said
that they weren't home, and she closed

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the door. The man laughed,
but returned a few minutes later. He

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again rang the doorbell, and again
Cassidy answered, telling him her parents weren't

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home. Hey, what part of
my parents aren't? Oh, I'm not

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kidding. I mean, it's kind
of creepy. She has to say it

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twice. When she opened the door, the man told her I used to

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be your uncle. What I was
married to your mom's sister. Cassidy was

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weirded out just by this whole encounter, and for good reason, because when

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she tried to shut the door,
the man forced his way into the home,

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and after he tied her up,
tied her up. Yeah, where

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were the other kids? They're there? He tied Cassidy up, he made

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her lay face down. He tied
all of the children up. Oh my,

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it made them lay face down on
the floor. And he said they

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were gonna wait for Katie and Steven
to get home. Oh, those poor

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kids, they must have been terrified. Well, yeah, I would have

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just shit. Katie and Stephen got
home and surprised, yep, surprise.

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And the man had a gun.
So that's why they're complying. In case

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you're wondering, you know, it's
not like he's like super overpowering them.

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He's got a gun, so he's
just scaring the shit out of them.

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And Katie and Stephen get home,
and he also ties them up and makes

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them lay face down on the floor. Was he an uncle, Yeah,

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he was an ex uncle. His
name was Ronald Lee Haskell, and so

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yes, it was true what he
told Cassidy that he'd been married to Katie's

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sister, Melanie. The reason Cassidy
didn't initially recognize him, in case you're

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wondering, like when he knocked on
the door, it's because Melanie and Ronald

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had lived in Utah for most of
their marriage, far away. Yeah,

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and you know, they didn't visit
much prior to the divorce. But when

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Katie and Stephen came home, they
recognized. Oh, absolutely, they knew

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exactly who he was. He shit. Yeah. At the time of the

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home invasion, Ronald was living in
California with his parents, and he moved

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there soon after he and Melanie divorced. And Ronald really held a grudge against

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Melanie for divorcing him. And when
he was at the stayhouse in July twenty

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fourteen, it was because he had
come up with a perfect plan to get

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back at her. Oh no,
he hurt the ones they love. He

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was going to murder her entire family. My he I know. And when

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he got to the stay house because
Melanie is not there, obviously she doesn't

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live there, he had one thing
on his mind. He wanted to find

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her because he decided he was going
to go visit her after we wasn't she

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in Utah? Nope, she had
moved back to Texas after the divorce.

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Okay, So while this family of
seven is laying on the living room floor,

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he demanded to know where Melanie was. He asked each family member,

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where's Melanie? And they said they
didn't know, even though they's true,

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No, that wasn't true, but
they didn't want right of course, right,

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I'm not going to give it up. And so when they answered that

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he didn't know, he started shooting
each of them execution style. You got

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five kids? You're telling me there's
five kids? Yes. He shoots everyone

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in the head, even four year
old Zachary Zaki was initially shot in the

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shoulder, which was a wound he
could have survived. And when he was

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initially shot, he ran over to
Stephen's body and Steven was already dead.

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But he's a little boy who's four, and he ran over there to try

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to like bury his head in his
father's shoulder. I mean, he was

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looking for some comfort. I'm sure
the poor thing was just terrified. And

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and that's when Ronald delivered another bullet
to the back of little Zachary's hide.

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I hate Ronald. Yes. After
shooting everyone, Ronald left and this is

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when he was headed to Katie and
Melanie's parents' home. He was determined,

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he's gonna annihilate the hole. He's
gonna annihilate the whole family. Absolutely,

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yep, this is what's on his
mind. He was determined just to continue

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this massacre. While he's questioning everyone
before he shot them all, he's telling

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them that this is what he's going
to do. He's saying, you know,

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after I'm here, I'm going to
your parents' house and I'm going to

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try to trackt Dow Melanie and I'm
gonna kill everybody. So he's telling them

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what his plan is and that they're
gonna die, right, and that they're

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gonna die. Before he left,
little did he know there was still two

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members of the Stave family who were
still alive. Oh, and there was

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the hud Yes shot yes, fifteen
year old Cassidy while she had been shot

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in the head, like you said, she had put her hand up to

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like that reflex, right, yeah, to try to protect Yes, but

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it usually doesn't work because it'll just
go right through. I know, like

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you don't think about it. And
it's like when people put their hands up

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when somebody's like coming at them with
a knife and everything. But when the

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bullet made contact with her body,
the placement of her hand prevented it from

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going like straight into her head.
It kind of severed her finger and kind

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of ricocheted a little bit, so
it really just grazed her head. Wow,

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And she played dead. And I
know we've talked about this. I

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don't know how you played dead when
your heart is going a million miles an

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hour and you I mean, I
would have panic attack. I know,

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I'll be freaking out right to fake
it, like I'm not sure my breathing

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would be out of whack, right, like you're just I don't know how

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anyone does it, but I know. But bless her heart, she did

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it. She did such a good
job at it playing dad that Ronald thought

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he killed her along with the rest
of the family. But she only suffered

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a skull fracture and thankfully she was
still alive, so knowing that uncle Ronnie

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was headed to her grandparents' home after
he When he left the home, Cassidy

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ran to make the nine one one
call. She was able to alert the

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police of what she had just witnessed
in her own home and that Ronald was

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headed to her grandparents home. She
gave the nine one one operator her grandparents

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address, and the police headed that
way, hoping that they could catch Ronald

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before he hurt anyone else. Yeah, get there in time, yeah,

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absolutely, thankfully. Using this information
that Cassidy provided, the police were able

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to confront Ronald at her grandparents house
and before he had the chance to exit

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his vehicle. He ended up,
though, taking the police on a twenty

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minute chase that involved about a dozen
police cars. How do you think you're

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going to get out of that?
I don't know. How do you think

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you'd think that eventually they're gonna be
like, oh wait, my gas is

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low and just stop chasing you.
Right. No, That's what I always

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think when people do that, Like, I always think I can't get away

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with that. Nobody gets away with
that now with all those cars. But

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he does, and the chase ended
in a cul de Sac in front of

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a house that was about three miles
from the stay home. During the chase,

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the police used a spike strip to
stop the car that Ronald was driving.

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So they do the spike strip,
and so that's when they're able to

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then block his car using two armored
vehicles similar to like the big ones you

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see on TV. You know,
So he's screwed. Oh yeah, he's

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caught. Yeah. One of the
armored cars literally blocked his little sedan by

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driving basically on top of it.
So he wasn't going anywhere. So that's

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the end of the story. Yea, and thank you for watching. Not

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quite. While Ronald was trapped,
he still had that pistol. It was

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a semi automatic pistol that he had, and he held it to his own

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head. So now they're having a
standoff. So during the standoff, which

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lasted about four hours, of course, the police evacuate all of the homes

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nearby, and they spoke to Ronald
on a cell phone. And after about

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four hours, like I said,
he surrendered without anyone else getting her.

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Okay, where's he gonna go?
I mean, he's, like I said,

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he's fucked. And Cassie likely saved
the lives of her grandparents that day.

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Who else survived though, I'm gonna
tell you, okay, Like I

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said, she wasn't the only survivor. Initially, seven year old Rebecca survived

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the shooting. What to say,
initially bec she succumbed to her injuries and

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passed away at the hospital. Because
you know, they did send an ambulance

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right away when Cassidy was on the
nine one one call, and they took

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both her and her sister to the
hospital, but unfortunately, Rebecca's injuries were

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so severe that she passed away.
Cassidy remained in critical condition at Children's Memorial

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Herman Hospital for a few days,
but she was finally released on July eleventh,

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once they thought she was well enough
to go. And her whole family

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has been slaughtered, right, her
whole family, and she's only fifteen,

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except for her grandparents. Except for
her grandparents. Oh my lord, I

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can't imagine living imagine living with that
either, like a survivor's guilt. Oh

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she must. I hope she's getting
help because this is just so sad.

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They were killed in front of her. It's one thing, you know,

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lose him in a car accident,
but she's got the memory of that horrible

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day. Well, you may be
wondering what could have possibly triggered this whole

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horrendous event. Life seemed to be
going great for Ronald and Melanie when they

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married on March fifteenth, two thousand
and two, in Orange County, California.

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When after they were married, the
couple moved to Logan, Utah.

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They had four children together. So
he's the dad of four children. Yes,

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he's the dad of four children.
However, at some point Melanie filed

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for divorce, which was finalized on
Valentine's Day in twenty fourteen, and that's

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when she had it to Houston to
move back to be close to her family,

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and her sister Katie Stay helped her. The reasoning behind the divorce was

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because Ronald he had some anger issues. Ronald's an asshole. Yeah, I

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can already know that. In case
you haven't realize he's got anger issues.

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No, I didn't catch any of
the Yeah during the mass shooting. Yeah,

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he would take his anger out in
Melanie and his children. He would

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physically abused them. Yeah. Of
course, Melanie bravely reported the domestic abuse

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and had a protective order put in
place. He was charged with suspicion of

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domestic violence, assault and committing an
act of violence in front of children in

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June two thousand and eight. Suspicion
of domestic life. And maybe that's something

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in like Utah that we don't normally
have suspicion. You either did it or

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attempted to do it. I think
the laws might be a little different.

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Okay. On one occasion, Ronald
pulled Melanie out of bad by her hair

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and struck her on the side of
her head in front of their children.

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When he was charged, he initially
told the police I only pushed her.

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That's the only thing that happened.
And he had no clue. He acted

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like he had no clue where these
allegations were coming from. Say, why

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would she say my husband that just
pushed her. Yeah, he just pushed

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her. I mean. He ended
up pleading guilty to the simple assault charges,

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but he pleaded not guilty to the
charges of domestic violence, and once

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the play was obtained, the rest
of the charges were dismissed and no jail

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time. He got no jail time
for the assault. Did they still have

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the no contact order? Not yet? Peel not ye'all. Nope, it

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didn't come until little later on July
eighth, twenty thirteen, the following day

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after the charges were dismissed. That's
when Melanie filed for the protective order against

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her then husband and didn't take her
long to file for divorce a month later.

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So after he did that to her
and she filed those charges and he

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went through the whole plea and stuff, did he live with her? No?

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No, she was like, I'm
done, Yeah, I'm not her.

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In October of that same year,
in twenty thirteen, Ronald and Melanie

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came to an agreement in their divorce. They agreed that the custody arrangements that

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they had for the four children,
they agreed on those. Melanie was going

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to have primary custody and Ronald was
given visitation rights the weekend, one night

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during the week. No, because
she was moving to Texas, and he

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got that's a big deal to be
able to move. Yeah, And he

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ended up standing to California. Oh, he moved in with his parents in

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San Marcos. For those who really
knew Ronald and Melanie said, the two

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of them did seem to have a
bit of a rocky marriage, but they

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just were really confused as to how
this whole thing snowballed into like a family

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00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.879
massacre. When they got the divorce, Melanie was just desperate to get away

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from him, and she would tell
her sister Katie everything, and Katie was

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determined to get Melanie and her four
children back to Texas so that she could

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be near family. And because the
parents are there too, right, is

210
00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.000
it your maternal grandparents. Yep,
it's Melanie and Katie's parents. So she

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did what any good sister would do. I mean, you would help your

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sisters. Absolutely, she helped Melanie
get away from this horrible man. And

213
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I'm sure there's more incidences of domestic
violence and shit, and I'd be surprised

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00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.799
if you didn't mention some stalking.
Yeah, he was just a piece of

215
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.960
shit. And you know, Melanie's
divorce lawyer was even fearful really for Melanie's

216
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.399
safety. Her attorney's name was A
Daniel Barker. He was just sickened when

217
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.360
he learned what happened to you stay
family, and he felt guilty because he

218
00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:28.039
felt like he should have at least
seen an inkling of what Ronald to do.

219
00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.559
I know, if there's already an
order in place, like for no

220
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.399
contact or a PPO. There's nothing
he can do, right, he said.

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00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.080
He tried to like rack his brain
trying to remember was there anything,

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00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.240
like any kind of clue maybe that
I missed? And he said, you

223
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.440
know, Ronald seemed like a decent
person, even though he did have a

224
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.559
feeling that there was some bad lurking
underneath at all, you know, like

225
00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.840
he was like a ticking time bomb, but nothing like a psychotic no,

226
00:15:54.159 --> 00:16:00.679
no, And he didn't think Ronald
was capable of doing something people you think

227
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.399
are You don't really think, oh
he's capable of wiping out a whole family,

228
00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.960
right right, Well, sometimes I
have in some of our cases.

229
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.600
Yeah you're like, ooh, I
don't know about this one. Yeah,

230
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:11.639
like, oh, we better follow
up with them, and I got to

231
00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.159
check them out and see where they're
at in six months. So he was

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00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.240
relieved when he found out that Melanie
was going to Houston and that Ronald was

233
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:22.000
moving to California, because he's like, okay, far apart. Yeah,

234
00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:26.039
there's states away from each other,
hundreds maybe thousands of miles away from one

235
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.559
another. So he's like, show, like everything should be fine. So

236
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what's he allowed to take the kids
to California with him. I don't know.

237
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.639
They're probably just liberal parenting time when
he's in Texas. I'm just being

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a lawyer being a lawyer. Yes, I'm sorry to Lee. I don't

239
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:45.279
know the details of their divorce judgment
judgment. I'm sorry to not look it

240
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.840
off. Well, that's fine,
I'll forgive you this time. That's one

241
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.720
thing I did not research. That's
what I'm guessing. Yes, that's what

242
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.919
I'm guessing too, because we are
family lawyers and we have done long distance

243
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.279
parenting time agreements and things, and
usually it's the parents that moves outside of

244
00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:06.839
Michigan gets maybe longer time in the
summer and they get maybe or if they

245
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.240
come in the state, they can
see the children. Yeah, exactly.

246
00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.519
So, well, he wasn't happy
with whatever it ended up being. He

247
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:17.400
was just bitter at Melanie. The
main reason he was mad was because Melanie

248
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:22.119
went public with the truth. Yeah, the truth of the abuse abusive asshole.

249
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.839
Yeah exactly, that's what he was
most upset about. And everybody knew

250
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.599
that he was a dick. So
I mean, it's just call it like

251
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:37.079
it is. Right. One week
prior to almost completely annihilating the Stay family,

252
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.960
Ronald's own mother, Carla Jean Heskell, she spoke to the police about

253
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her son. Carla told the police
that she needed file a restraining order against

254
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:52.839
Ronald because they had had a ferocious
argument. Is how she described it.

255
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.440
His own mom, his own mom. He lived with his parents. During

256
00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.799
the argument, Ronald had forced his
mom into the garage of the home.

257
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.799
After she was in the garage,
he tied her wrists together with duct tape.

258
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.039
What a tap more than an Oh? I got into an argument with

259
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.720
my mom. No, this is
bad. He then taped her to a

260
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.160
computer chair. What he tapes her
arms? He tapes you know, I

261
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.079
can just imagine him, like going
round and round the chair. Holy shit.

262
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.519
He left her there for four hours. He threatened to kill her,

263
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.640
like you're grounded. I know you're
grounded, so grounded, I know you

264
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:32.000
are grounded. Threatened to kill his
own mom. Taped her to a chair.

265
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:33.559
Yeah, duck tapered to a chair, and he threatened to kill her

266
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.039
along with everyone else in the family. Wow, I mean he screamed at

267
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:44.240
her. He choked her until she
passed out. What the And you want

268
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.799
to know what the reason for the
argument was. What she didn't make dinner

269
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:52.319
bread. No, it was because
Carla had told him she'd been in contact

270
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.680
with his ex wife, Melanie.
Okay, Melanie was a good person.

271
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.480
It's not surprising that her in laws
would want to keep INTI with her,

272
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.799
considering she's got four of their grandchies
exactly, it makes sense. But this

273
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.279
information is way over the top.
Ron I mean, Ronald, come on,

274
00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:14.559
this information just set him over the
edge. Who does that to their

275
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.680
mom? You know, not your
mama, And I mean, don't you

276
00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.839
want your mom to see your kids
and talk to them maybe because I'm sure,

277
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.240
like you know, if they're talking
on the phone, has lost it.

278
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.039
He's losing it. He's losing it. Absolutely. After the San Marcos

279
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.359
police got done speaking with Carla in
regards to her son, so he ended

280
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.799
up what letting her go. I'm
sorry, ma, I guess I don't

281
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.359
know what the aftermath was because I
would be terrified, right, I'd be

282
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.920
terrified, because, like you said, you were going to kill everybody.

283
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.880
And he choked her mm hmm yeah
until she passed out. So the police

284
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.880
didn't go searching for him, and
they can't find him because they want to

285
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.960
bring him in for questioning. They
check all the places where he normally hung

286
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.440
out. Wouldn't that be attempted murder? I don't know. Maybe we're choking

287
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.599
somebody till they pass out, that's
true, I'll get back to it.

288
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:10.440
Definitely kidnapping, yeah, something assault, assault with the tendt to commit bodily

289
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:14.519
harm. Sorry, I'm just thinking. Quits showing off for everyone to leo.

290
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:18.400
I'm just trying to I'm just trying
to sound smart, Okay. I

291
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.000
don't know. So. From the
outside, everyone that knew the Haskell family

292
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:26.279
thought they were just this perfect Mormon
family trying to live their lives in Utah.

293
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.799
Melanie was a great mom, Ronald
was a great dad who loved his

294
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.240
family. However, their secret life
was exposed and everything just came crashing down

295
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:38.680
when Melanie filed for divorce. Before
I tell you more, we're going to

296
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:52.240
take a break. She decided she
wanted to move to Houston to have a

297
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.960
better life for her and her kids. You know, they would be happy,

298
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.519
they'd be near family, and they
would no longer have to see their

299
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:03.079
mother and themself because he's beating his
children too. He physically abused right.

300
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.240
Another thing that probably set him off
was he was unemployed. At the time

301
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.680
of the divorce, but he was
court ordered to give Melanie child support,

302
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.440
son of a bitch, and for
four children. Who was to pay.

303
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.759
I don't have a job exactly.
You gotta get one, Yeah, how

304
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.920
it works. Guess how much he
was made to pay for four children twenty

305
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:29.680
a week almost It was seven hundred
and seventy three dollars a month, which

306
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.359
was less than two hundred dollars a
week. But you know, he had

307
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:34.599
no idea how he's gonna pay it. Maybe get a job, like you

308
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.759
said, No, that's an option. And you know he moved in with

309
00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.200
his parents. That just tells me
is like no overnights when he's got to

310
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.400
pay that much too? Yeah,
yeah, I just thought it was very

311
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.160
little for four for four children.
When he got to California, his parents

312
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.480
weren't that happy to see him.
I bet they were like, oh,

313
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:57.720
great with us, that's great.
Yeah, And he was suffering from depression.

314
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.359
The anger and the depression completely took
over his life after the divorce,

315
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:07.160
according to some They said he would
go on for days without eating or leaving

316
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.839
his bedroom at his parents' house,
and the anger became too much. That

317
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:17.400
day when his mother had defiled that
restraining order to put what does Dad douz

318
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:21.240
just be like, I know,
where was Dad when this all happened.

319
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.759
I don't know. His mom wrote
in her application for that restraining order that

320
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:30.079
if Ronald was to stay in the
house, he was going to absolutely harm

321
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.039
her. Again, she was convinced, but the application for the order was

322
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.039
later dismissed. What when she failed
to go through with it? But you

323
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.839
know what, even the prosecutor could
have went on the change. I know.

324
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:45.759
That's the thing like here here,
when somebody off a domestic violence charge

325
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.920
comes up, you don't have to
like if I was the one being abused,

326
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.599
I don't have to continue to pursue
it. Like the prosecutor will pick

327
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.160
it up. But then again they're
going to lose their star witness. That's

328
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.319
true, that's true, But it
was dismissed. Well, it's hard mom

329
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.839
with her son, I know,
but I mean, he was over the

330
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.599
top. I'm sure she was scared
shitless to live with him any further I

331
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.640
would be you never know, he's
gonna come get you, and he's threatened

332
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.000
to kill you already. Anyway,
Ronald was arrested for the murders of the

333
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.559
stay family on the morning of July
tenth, twenty fourteen, and he was

334
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:25.519
charged with six counts of capital murder
by the Harris County Sheriff's Office. He

335
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:30.000
was held without bond, and the
following day he made his first court appearance.

336
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.039
And oh boy, what a court
appearance. This is gonna be one

337
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.400
of those. Yeah. While the
charges were being read against him, he

338
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.599
began shakin. Yes, he's being
arraigned. Yes, he began shaking uncontrollably.

339
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:49.400
He ended up collapsing ah in the
courtroom, and nobody's quite sure why.

340
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:55.480
The deputies dramatic yes, right,
like I don't know if he really

341
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:59.519
passed out or not. Like it
sounds like exactly, sounds like he's putting

342
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.480
on some thee her. The deputies
were able to lift him up to his

343
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.640
feet after he collapsed, and then
he collapsed again. Yeah, that's my

344
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.039
interpretation of his collapsing. And so
once he couldn't remain upright, he had

345
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.279
to be escorted out of the courtroom
via a wheelchair. They gave him a

346
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.599
wheelchair to sit in. This is
an arraignment, I know, Like,

347
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.759
this is what you did. These
they're just charges, Yeah, they're just

348
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:25.440
charges. Till up. You did
it. Yeah, you did it.

349
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:32.319
He didn't collapse after you shot them
all. I know it's here. The

350
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:36.839
funeral for the murdered members of the
State family was held on July sixteenth.

351
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.599
Cassidy attended the service with her grandfather, Robert Lyon, by her side.

352
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.359
She showed up with a smile on
her face, but you know, inside

353
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:51.240
her heart was broken, but she
tried to remember like the good things about

354
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:55.079
her family. Four hundred people showed
up, so you know, there's hundreds

355
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.599
of people there, and she's saying
I love you to all of them,

356
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:02.839
and like signing. I know it
was language. She said, I love

357
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:07.759
you and sign language. So she's
there and these six caskets I'm rolling in.

358
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.279
She absolutely broke down. Yeah,
as she witnessed this, aw man,

359
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.799
I mean, her family, it's
I want to cry thinking about it.

360
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.599
I mean sad now, I know. And she did speak at their

361
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:26.359
funeral, and she remembered them like
she told little anecdotes about her family members

362
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.400
and things like that her brothers and
sisters loved to do. She tried to

363
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.559
really give everybody like a little glimpse
of what they were like in life.

364
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:38.240
And at the funeral, she was
comforted by her remaining family. It's only

365
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:45.359
fifteen, no, I know,
it's just so sad. So she did

366
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.200
tell everyone, you know, I
am doing a little better after my injuries,

367
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.279
and she was working her way to
having a full recovery. And she

368
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.599
did tell everybody quote, I know
that my mom, Dad, Brian,

369
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.279
Emily, Beck and Zach are in
a much better place and then I'll be

370
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.359
able to see them again one day. He is a better stronger person than

371
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.319
me. I know. I can't
the strength she had to be able to

372
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.880
do this. I don't even know
me at my age, I don't even

373
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.799
know if I could know. And
this is just hair. I need a

374
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.480
lot of Xanax or something. Many
families spoke at the service, and they

375
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.720
did a lot like what Kssidy did. They spoke about Like for Katie,

376
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.519
she just loved being a mom and
she just had like this great sunny personality.

377
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:33.319
And Steven always put his family first
and it was lovely for the circumstances

378
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.440
it was. It was nice memories
that they all had. Cassidy just wanted

379
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.200
her family to be remembered not for
how they died, but for how they

380
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:48.519
lived. Well. Okay, after
years of delays. Ronald's trial finally began

381
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.799
August twenty six, two thy nineteen
five years. Were they seeking the death

382
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.920
penalty? Oh yeah, that's why
hmm. The prosecution did everything they could

383
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.799
to try to conveny and it's the
jury that Ronald's murderous spree was based on

384
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:08.559
vengeance. Yes. The first piece
of evidence that the prosecution introduced to the

385
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:12.400
jury was Cassidy's nine to one one
call. On the tape, Cassidy told

386
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.400
the operator that her entire family had
been shot and that she needed immediate help.

387
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.200
The nine one one operator then asked
who the shooter was and she said,

388
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:25.960
uncle Ronnie. They make her testify, Yes, I knew it in

389
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.960
the courtroom or by zoom. No, it was in the courtroom. There's

390
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.440
pictures online of her testifying in the
little witness box. Another person who testified

391
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.960
was Sergeant Back, who was one
of the police deputies from Harris County.

392
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.920
He was the first to arrive at
the scene. He testified just how surreal

393
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.839
it was. Yeah, And after
he helped Cassidy, he checked the other

394
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.440
victims to see if anyone was still
alive, and that's when he discovered Rebecca

395
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.680
and he had a body cam,
and that video was shown to the court.

396
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.400
Imagine being on the jury. Oh
man, the odds top. I

397
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.799
know they were family. I mean
the jury was just stunned. I wouldn't

398
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.240
want to see it. They got
to see Cassidy. I mean, she's

399
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:11.720
terrified. They see the bleeding.
Yes, sure she's bleeding, because head

400
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.480
wounds bleed a lot. And even
if she was just grazed, I'm sure

401
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:21.200
there was tons of blood. It
was just right. Anyway, it was

402
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:26.000
bad when Melanie was called to testify, Poor Melanie. Oh, she must

403
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.839
have felt terrible, right Gil oh
man, I can't even imagine it.

404
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:36.279
And during her testimony, she told
the court that Ronald had warned her that

405
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:41.119
her family would be murdered if she
ever told anyone about the violence and abuse

406
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:44.680
that she was suffering at his hands. She told the court that as soon

407
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.079
as she heard about the murder,
she instantly knew it was Ronald. She

408
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.640
said, quote he carried through on
his promise to make me watch my family

409
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.480
die. Mmmm, that's how you
get people. Don't hurt them, hurt

410
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:03.200
the ones they love. Yeah,
that's just my weakness. My family worst

411
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.039
fears for something to happen to someone. I love right, he's an asshole.

412
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.319
I know. While she testified,
she rarely looked in his direction and

413
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:15.440
she never mentioned him by name.
She called him the defendant. She told

414
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.680
the court that during her marriage,
he forced her to be isolated from her

415
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:25.599
family. I mean, it's typical
abuse from family vis French troller, and

416
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.680
she was afraid of him. She
was terrified and it almost scribbled her.

417
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.279
During the trial, the prosecution presented
physical evidence from the scene, such as

418
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:38.759
bullet casings, and they showed the
jury very graphic photos taken of the victims

419
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.119
and the murder weapon. I mean, I can't believe he went to trial.

420
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:47.480
Hello, there's this high speed chase
with the police. I know,

421
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:49.640
a nine one one call it dentifying
him. I know, like you're being

422
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.119
blocked in. You get a four
hour stand off, and you think with

423
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.000
the death penalty on the table,
you think it was just taken a please

424
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.559
complea for life in prison, no
parole. No. His his lawyers,

425
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.799
his defense was that he was insane, insane at the time of though.

426
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.599
Wasn't just say heat a passion,
Yeah, insane, he was insane.

427
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.640
Yes. One of the pictures that
was shown was a bullet made its way

428
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.839
into Steven's wallet, like it,
he had it on him. So I

429
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:21.000
don't think Ronald was just shooting everyone
once. I think there was multiple shots

430
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.200
because, like I said, like
Zachary got in the shoulder, So I

431
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:27.200
think he shot everyone a couple of
times. I don't know. But even

432
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.799
though I didn't find any like articles
or anything that said that, but that's

433
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.000
what I think happened. It's my
opinion. I mean, you're not a

434
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.960
trained professional. I'm not a trained
professional. I'm not a forensic analyst.

435
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.440
But anyway, so we're yeardless of
all this physical evidence, the phone call,

436
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:48.000
the bullet casings, whatever tip mom. Yeah, like I mentioned,

437
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.039
the defense strategy was to show that
he was insane at the time of the

438
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:56.319
attack. The defense told the jury
that Ronald has since been sedated and treated

439
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:02.359
for mental illness. What mental illness, depression, anxiety. I think there

440
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:06.920
was no like, oh he's paranoid, something serious, you know, or

441
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:11.240
like bipolar disorder or something they went
untreated for years or something. No,

442
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.440
it was none of that. It
was he's just didn't he drive from California

443
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.160
all the way to Texas? Yeah, it had a long time to turn

444
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.559
around. Yeah, it took him
over twenty four hours to drive to Texas.

445
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.559
He had a lot of time to
think about this. His attorney,

446
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:33.039
Douglas Durham, stated that the State
of Texas had this insanity statue and he

447
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.079
was so certain the evidence was going
to show that Ronald was under extreme mental

448
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.119
incapacity. How can anybody do this
for revenge? Let me tell you,

449
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.720
he's gonna lose because State of Texas
reach, Texas don't play. Texas don't

450
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:51.480
play. Texas don't play. Texas
don't play, and they have a very

451
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:56.160
high standard to meet the for lack
of a better term, insanity defense.

452
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.359
Yeah, yeah, you're not.
You're not gonna win it. During the

453
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:04.640
trial, it came to light that
after Ronald drove from his parents home to

454
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.880
Spring, Texas, and like I
said, it was more than a day,

455
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:12.559
he stocked Remember you mentioned stocking stocking
in there. Yeah, he stocked

456
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:17.720
the State family for two whole days
before finally murdering them. Walleyside planned to

457
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:23.400
present witnesses to plead their case.
The most emotional testimony obviously came from Cassidy.

458
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.599
She was on the stand on day
two of the trial, and the

459
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.759
prosecution really did kind of a masterful
job because initially, instead of just boom

460
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:37.960
boomoom asking her questions about what happened, they had her tell about her family,

461
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:43.319
oh and pull on the heart strings
of the heart strings, and then

462
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.359
they did ask her about the attack. She said she remembered answering the door

463
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.720
and there was a FedEx guy there
and he was holding a white pillow that

464
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:54.519
was covered in duct tape, and
she said she was initially confused, like

465
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:58.880
what is this? But he used
it as a silencer. Was he dressed

466
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:00.200
as a FedEx guy? He was
us as a FedEx guy. And he

467
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:05.400
actually worked for a company, like
one of his prior jobs. He worked

468
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.200
for a company that was contracted to
FedEx, so he did have a FedEx

469
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:13.119
uniform. He was not a direct
employee. He was contracted. But I'm

470
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.160
trying to defend FedEx a little bit, but yeah, he was a contract

471
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:21.240
employee. Ah, so angry right
now, I know. And Cassidy described

472
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.279
that before he started shooting everyone,
she was just praying, praying and praying

473
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:28.680
as they were being held at gunpoint. While she and her siblings are being

474
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.599
held and they waited for her parents
to come home. And while they're waiting,

475
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.000
she's trying to talk to Ronald and
try to relate to him, like

476
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:43.240
on a human level. Yeah,
she started talking to him about her siblings.

477
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.640
She told him how old they were. She said she was trying to

478
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.880
appeal to his humanity. And yeah, she said, I didn't think someone

479
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.680
would hurt kids if he knew their
names and how old they were. A

480
00:33:54.759 --> 00:34:00.599
four year old dad, and he's
a dad right with his own kids.

481
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:05.039
And there have been studies done that
this technique works. Yeah, sometimes it

482
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.400
works sometimes, probably not with Ted
Bondy, probably not, you know,

483
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.280
with some people. With some people, I think when you try to put

484
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.840
the humanity and you know, we've
done stories where like if you're captured by

485
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.599
a serial killer or something, sometimes
when you try to get to know them

486
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.480
and relate, they start to loosen
up. And I do as a human,

487
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.280
not a nonjec. Yeah, exactly. But unfortunately it didn't work.

488
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.440
It didn't work in this instance.
Describing the aftermath of the shootings, Cassidy

489
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:35.480
told the courtroom she remembered how the
room smelled, that it just wreaked,

490
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:39.599
the smell of blood, and the
air was just sour and hot. The

491
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:45.480
atmosphere was heavy and as she's describing
this. Ronald just sat at the defense

492
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.400
table with just a stoic look on
his face, and he had no reaction.

493
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.320
But according to the defense, he
was sedated at the time. Well,

494
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:57.679
it would be a lot of xanax
for me to have no reaction.

495
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:02.480
Yeah, after the jury her that
Ronald stocked the family for two days prior

496
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.239
to the shooting. They knew for
sure this is spree was premeditated. It

497
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.679
wasn't something. And of course and
too he drove, he had like three

498
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:15.440
or four days. I'm a passion
passion. No, I'm so angry right

499
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:21.079
now. Right, No, he
knew exactly boiling up inside him. He's

500
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.199
just probably getting angrier by the minute. He knew exactly what he was doing

501
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:28.880
when he arrived at the stay home
and executed them. Once the trial ended,

502
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.039
the jury goes on to deliberate,
and after only four hours it's going

503
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:36.239
to say I didn't That wouldn't take
very long. No, he was convicted

504
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.280
of first degree murder on all counts. That was time for them to decide

505
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.079
on the sentence, and the sentence
that they had available was the death penalty

506
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.880
or life in prison. This is
Texas. Yeah, So on October eleventh,

507
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:52.679
twenty nineteen, the jury sentenced him
to die by lethal injection. Again,

508
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.880
it's Texas exactly, that's what Texas
don't play. Texas don't play.

509
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:00.519
I mean, I've never been there. I've heard it's lovely Texas. Don't

510
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:02.599
commit a murder in Texas, right, I mean, of all places,

511
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:06.519
is that the advice? I yes, I don't know. For the week,

512
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.000
don't commit a murder and murder,
I guess do it in California because

513
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:12.360
if you go on death row,
you never yeah, you're never gonna You're

514
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:14.280
never gonna be don't even have death
row. Oh yeah, they don't have

515
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.679
death row anymore. So I don't
know anyway, I'm being sarcastic. Sarcastic,

516
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.519
In case anyone didn't recognize my sarcasm, I did thank you. During

517
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:29.000
her victim impact statement, Cassidy told
the jurors that her family always told her

518
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.960
that Ronald only ever felt sorry for
himself. It's probably true. She looked

519
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.320
at him and told him, you
know, she originally refused to believe that

520
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.559
that he only had felt sorry for
himself, because she thought, for sure

521
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:46.079
he had to feel some sort of
regret or sorrow for killing her entire family,

522
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:51.599
but when she heard he had zero
remorse, she said, something changed

523
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.599
in sight of her. I'm sure
she had to like look at it where

524
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:59.760
she had to stop feeling like,
he's got to feel bad, right,

525
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:05.239
Some people have no soul their class
psychopaths. They walk around as if they're

526
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.679
human beings. Yeah, but they're
missing their soul. And she said,

527
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:14.480
I just needed to have some closure
in my life because I couldn't keep carrying

528
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.400
this around. So she told Ronald
to quote, my closure was the hope

529
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:22.400
that you would feel bad. I
no longer have the desire for closure because

530
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:24.480
this is it. She know in
her heart that the only person who would

531
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:29.800
be able to help her heal would
be God, and the only one that

532
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.639
would really truly punish him would be
in the afterlife. So she turned to

533
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:37.400
God with her anger and resentment.
I'm sure there was some punishment in prison.

534
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:42.119
Oh yeah, she just she said
she was going to continue her life

535
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.519
through and Texas doesn't sound like death
rout anywhere. It doesn't sound good to

536
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.719
know, but she told him,
you know, I'm going to continue on

537
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:52.079
with my life. And at this
point she's twenty and she's the mother of

538
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.320
her own Oh, so she has
a baby, and she said, I'm

539
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:58.039
going to continue to live my life
with happiness, and said, I'm going

540
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.320
to forget about you, and I'm
going to forget about this and I'm going

541
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:06.440
to be happy. Wow. So
Ronald Lee Heskell is currently living out his

542
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:10.760
miserable life on death row at the
L and B. Polunski unit located near

543
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.920
Livingston, Texas. And he was
probably only in his mid thirties, I

544
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:16.079
think when this happens. So he's
got a long time to stay there.

545
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.119
His poor kids too. Oh I
know who's your dad? Oh he's in

546
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:27.199
prison for annihilating my family. That's
a shame. That's It's a terrible story.

547
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.840
Lose, lose. So well,
thank you everyone, Thank you everyone,

548
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:37.679
Thank you Tanya, Thank you everyone
for listening to today's horrible, horrible

549
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:42.440
story. Family annihilation stories are fascinating. Yeah we did that one. Remember

550
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:47.280
where the mocking what was it?
Remember mocking for mocking something? Mocking Hill

551
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.239
Road? Oh? Yes, yeah, these are these stories are just they

552
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:54.360
just I always wonder what it takes
for someone to just snap like that.

553
00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:00.599
So I see I could see like
someone snapping and killing like melody. I'm

554
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.079
not saying you mean Melanie. Yes, Melanie, I'm not saying, but

555
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.159
you can kind of sort of understand
that, right, right, But a

556
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:13.519
little four year old like ChIL children, what what? What's That's just an

557
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.559
evil what's going on here? That's
just evil? Thought like I'm gonna hurt

558
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:21.920
her so bad, I'm gonna make
her live and think about what I did

559
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.320
to her family for the rest of
her life. I mean, that's just

560
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:28.840
evil. That's evil, that is
that is evil. If you haven't already,

561
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:34.440
please hit the subscribe, follow like
button whichever is positive button. Yes

562
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:38.840
anything. If you would like to
hear more episodes of our podcast, you

563
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:44.320
can go to our website Consequences dot
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564
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:50.000
You can listen on any major podcast
app Apple mm hmmm, Amazon,

565
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:54.400
Absolutely, but we recommend True Crime
Daily. Absolutely you too. Yes,

566
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:59.360
you can see her pretty faces.
And if you even want even more more

567
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:07.039
more episodes, who doesn't we have
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568
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.320
channel page website, I guess,
and so you can go to Patreon

569
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.960
dot com, slash t NT crimes
for Tanya and Tula crimes. Kind of

570
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:23.000
gonna end t T and T crime
like Dynamite done ynamite. If you listen

571
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to Apple, you can go to
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572
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you'll get unreleased to the public episodes. And we probably have about one hundred

573
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and night close to one hundred and
ninety of those full episodes. Let's how

574
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.400
we had one billion we do well? Yeah, oh, you can't do

575
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:43.199
that that false advertising. Millions and
billions of episodes. So if you're interested,

576
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:45.800
check it out, and we are
going to do shout outs next week

577
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.599
to all our patreons that we have
not Yeah, we haven't done for a

578
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.239
while. We're sorry, So stay
for next week to the end, and

579
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:59.199
we might have commenting on the commenter
review the reviewer viewer. Yes, it

580
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.880
depends on how hurt we are inside
by your comments. So until our next

581
00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:10.360
episode, don't kill each other.
Bye bye,