1 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:21,559 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Johnski, 2 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,920 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,879 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:29,239 --> 00:00:33,840 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version of 5 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,719 our website as well. We are joined once again by Christian Toto. He 6 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,000 is the host of the Hollywood and Toto podcast and you know him from the 7 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:48,159 Hollywood and Toto website. Christian, thanks for joining us. Pleasure and it's 8 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,880 it's just Hollywood and Toto dot com right, That's where people absolutely got to 9 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,159 keep it simple and I keep that brand consistent. Well, you've been grinding 10 00:00:56,159 --> 00:01:00,759 away there for years, and there's there's so much for you to write about 11 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:03,040 and now so much for you to podcast about. I actually want to start 12 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:11,400 with something that's looming large over the conversation on a business level and on a 13 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:18,280 let's say ideological level in entertainment sphere right now, and that would be the 14 00:01:18,359 --> 00:01:26,719 reality now facing rumble now facing actor turned I guess political commentator Russell Brand, 15 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:33,000 who has been accused of a very very serious, facing, very serious accusations. 16 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,120 They're they're old accusations, they're sexual assault accusations that they are, from 17 00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:44,319 my perspective, very serious. They're not entirely unsurprising. Russell Brand has come 18 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:47,400 out and said that, you know, he's he's I believe, gotten sober, 19 00:01:47,519 --> 00:01:52,680 he's This is kind of baked into the arc of Russell Brand. Doesn't 20 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,280 make it okay, does make it unsurprising, to to say the very least. 21 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:01,359 But this is kicked off another one of these major me too conversations about 22 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:07,599 sort of the threshold for cancelation because Rumble is facing pressure literally from the government 23 00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:15,560 of the United Kingdom to demonetize like YouTube did, Russell Brand's content on their 24 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,800 sites. Russell Brand hosts a regular show that is very popular, gets a 25 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,520 lot of views on Rumble, and Rumble has basically said, hell, no, 26 00:02:23,719 --> 00:02:29,000 Christian, you have been following this, maybe even more closely than I 27 00:02:29,039 --> 00:02:32,759 have. What do you make of the situation? And then we can kind 28 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,240 of get into what it could mean for Hollywood, what it could mean for 29 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,560 the news media going forward. None of this is surprising. I share your 30 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:47,240 alarm at the allegations. I think the combination on his hedonism in the past 31 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,919 and his addictions make it more likely this could have happened. But again, 32 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,599 he is innocent, will proven guilty. These are older charges and the timing 33 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,319 is certainly curious. Big as he you know, years ago I used to 34 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,840 cover him and he was a socialist and he would you know, you know, 35 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:09,400 use his platforms to push those agendas. And now I don't even know 36 00:03:09,479 --> 00:03:13,719 what it is now. But he is a he is a rabble rouser. 37 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:17,800 He is someone who's willing to speak up against media corruption, against big government, 38 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:23,159 against censorship, and I support most of the ally above. So you 39 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:29,560 know, he has changed in the public's mind in very radical ways. And 40 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,199 the conspiratorial side says, well, that puts a target on you, and 41 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,199 then the other side of me says, well, these are four different people 42 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,319 claiming similar stories and that's horrifying. But I think there are bigger issues in 43 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:46,599 play here. I think we're looking at a cultural landscape that is censorious in 44 00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:51,560 nature, that is looking for an excuse to shut down different points of view. 45 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,039 That know, is that to cut out a creator's knees by muck demonetize 46 00:03:57,039 --> 00:04:01,759 again is very effective. And you know it's if the slippery slopes always seem 47 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,280 like an outrageous argument until they happen again and again and again. And I 48 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:11,680 actually maybe connect all of this back to Alex Jones, who I loathe with 49 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,159 every fiber in my being. But when he was censored on social media, 50 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:18,160 I thought, and other people thought, what's next? And I think we're 51 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:23,519 seeing what's next. And as much as I hate what Alex Jones is up 52 00:04:23,519 --> 00:04:26,480 to, I don't think he should be censored, and I think that we're 53 00:04:26,519 --> 00:04:29,240 seeing the consequences of it now. I just think it's happening more and more. 54 00:04:29,879 --> 00:04:32,519 And you know, you've got to give Russell brand the benefit of the 55 00:04:32,519 --> 00:04:34,439 doubt. He's got to be able to speak his mind. He's got to 56 00:04:34,519 --> 00:04:39,839 maybe face his accusers. I don't potentially in court, but to say he's 57 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,160 guilty without a shadow of a doubt and remove his ability to make a living 58 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:50,519 is just wrong. It's also this horrible return to the standard that kimil pie 59 00:04:50,519 --> 00:04:54,680 I wrote about this in the Highwood Reporter in the middle of Me Too. 60 00:04:54,759 --> 00:04:59,279 She wrote that the idea that of an artist as a good person. She 61 00:04:59,519 --> 00:05:04,120 called it quote sentimental conard of Victorian moralism, which is such a perfect polyiaism. 62 00:05:04,319 --> 00:05:13,839 But it's also impossible for people to consume art that returns money to the 63 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,959 artists in a way. That is, let's say, in a way like 64 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:25,199 you have to reward bad people for making good art if you want to consume 65 00:05:25,319 --> 00:05:28,120 art at all. That isn't to say that the only kind of people who 66 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,040 can be good artists are bad people. It is just to say that, 67 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,319 you know, we're all fallen, and some chunk of people who make really 68 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,040 good art are going to be bad, and we can't rid ourselves of that 69 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,480 art because it might financially reward bad people. And it's not an easy question 70 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,120 to grapple with, but it is one that seems sort of obvious to me. 71 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,199 I don't know what your take is on that. Christian Yeah, yeah, 72 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,560 there's two signs of this. You can look back in history and say, 73 00:05:55,879 --> 00:05:59,480 you know, artists of the eighteenth and nineteenth century, we're horrible people, 74 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,920 but their work has been around for decades, stood the test of time, 75 00:06:01,959 --> 00:06:05,839 and it seems silly to cancel them or not appreciate what they did. 76 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,000 It gets a little more complicated when you have modern artists who are still working 77 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,759 today, the Woody Allen's and the Roman plan Skis, who are either accused 78 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,720 or admitted to terrible things. That gets it gets the conversation gets messier from 79 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,560 there. But you're right, and listen, there are plenty of people in 80 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,800 Hollywood who are doing horrible things behind the scenes that we don't know about, 81 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:29,800 and you're doing horrible things that we know all about it. And I can 82 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,319 mention Alec Baldwin, who is a very talented performer, funny, he's got 83 00:06:33,399 --> 00:06:36,680 dramatic chops, he's got it all, a great voice, and he seems 84 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,439 like a terrible human being. I mean, really does. I mean, 85 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,199 just the snippets we see, the evidence has out there, but I don't 86 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:46,839 want him demonetize. I don't want him on the unemployment line. And I'll 87 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:51,360 put the he accidentally shots someone to death on a back burner for now, 88 00:06:51,439 --> 00:06:56,639 but just as an example of someone who's been behaving badly for years. So 89 00:06:56,759 --> 00:07:01,800 yeah, I don't think that's a helpful situation. But also it's so selective 90 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:09,399 because you know, Rosanne Barr shot out one awful, terrible, racially charged 91 00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:13,680 tweet and she was wiped away, gone, Her career is over and she's 92 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,759 had to basically rebuild it on her own terms, which is fine. Maybe 93 00:07:16,759 --> 00:07:19,399 by her standard, but it shouldn't have to be that way. And then 94 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:24,279 you have to start the flash Ezra Miller, and that actor's track record of 95 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:30,279 terrible behavior is extensive. But if the Flash actually made a couple of dollars, 96 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,120 you would see Ezra Miller in the Flash two. So you know, 97 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,680 the hypocrisy is off the charts, and it just points to the fact that 98 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:43,079 this isn't really about making the world a better place. There are other factors 99 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,319 here. It's being weaponized and that's wrong. And yeah, that's a good 100 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:51,319 way to put it. Because we obviously have to have common social standards. 101 00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:57,079 We should hold people the very high standards of behavior where you should be shamed 102 00:07:57,959 --> 00:08:03,279 that it turns out you have seis sexual assault allegations against you, and when 103 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:05,480 those are litigated in the court of law to the extent that they can be, 104 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,399 not just in the wrestle of brand situation, but many situations where you 105 00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:15,839 know, statute of limitations have elapsed or et cetera. These get so difficult, 106 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:18,360 but you know, when they can be tried in a court of law 107 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:24,160 and we can have a serious legal battle and hopefully get some closure, we 108 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,879 should, and we should, to your point, allow people that process while 109 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:37,039 also enforcing that we have standards of shameful behavior. Hollywood standards of what constitute 110 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:43,120 shameful behavior are wildly a hypocritical and be terrible. I mean, like I 111 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,840 remember when the movie Quties hit Netflix, people were like, well, it's 112 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,440 not actually pedophilia, it's this interesting look at you know, they created this 113 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:01,039 sort of like intellectually gymnastic exploication. And it's like, okay, well, 114 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:03,799 still, in a healthy world, this would not be getting marketed the way 115 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:09,960 it's getting marketed. There's no way. Their standards are also crazy, and 116 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,120 so it's almost impossible to have this conversation in that context because there's just so 117 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,000 much going wrong in Hollywood anyway. Yeah, and I think part of this 118 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,600 all is that we don't have any conversations. It's very black and white. 119 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,440 He or she is canceled, he or she will never work again. What 120 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,799 did he or she do? And I look at the Lewis c K Louis 121 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:33,399 c K situation, because he exposed himself to multiple women. That's disgusting, 122 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,480 it's vile, there's no doubt about it. He admitted it, and he 123 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,080 essentially lost his career. He lost I don't know how many millions of dollars 124 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,440 he became a social pariah. He know, every gig he had dried up. 125 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,960 I mean, he was having a wonderful career. Now he has built 126 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,519 things back as a solo artist, as an independent artist. But there is 127 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,200 a segment out there that wants him forever band, forever, punished, forever 128 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,879 on the outskirts of society, and that just feels to me as well, 129 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:05,679 he really did suffer because of this, and this will never get off his 130 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:09,000 permanent record. Where he did is awful. Now, you can't make it 131 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,080 up to those women they had that experience. It's terrible. But life does 132 00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:16,559 have to go on, and he can't just be sent to some you know, 133 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:20,320 social media purgatory where he never gets to be seen again. You know, 134 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,000 if it's different if he's not apologetic, it's different if there are no 135 00:10:24,039 --> 00:10:26,879 consequences. But you know, his case is radically different than like a Roseanne 136 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:31,960 Barr who sent out one gross suite that hurt no one, maybe hurt some 137 00:10:31,039 --> 00:10:37,159 feelings, and yet you know she's been punished in ways that are just outrageous 138 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:39,519 to me. So it's it's all these different standards. It's the it's the 139 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,360 inability to have these in depth, in depth conversations. And I want to 140 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,679 just circle back to you know, the Me Too movement was technically great and 141 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:52,279 necessary and important, and it got bad and records time and one of the 142 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,000 I think the worst memories for me was when mad Damon came out and said, 143 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,879 you know, there is a difference between the Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulting someone 144 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,879 and you know, Senator Al Frank and taking a picture where a woman was 145 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:09,159 sleeping and he was holding his hands above her clothed breasts. Yeah, there 146 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:15,120 is a difference. And he was shouted down and shamed and he basically slinked 147 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,759 away and said my bad. And I thought, oh, what a terrible 148 00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:22,240 moment. I totally forgot about that, and me Too is just this, 149 00:11:22,279 --> 00:11:26,360 Yeah, it is. So it's such a tangled knot like I forget about 150 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:33,679 all of the different threads that like dominated the media every single day for a 151 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,320 better part of a year. And actually, that's an interesting point because I 152 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:43,080 know that you've covered this for conservatives. There's something very difficult about Me Too 153 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:50,559 in that, on the one hand, it did expose some of Hollywood's deep 154 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:56,600 hypocrisies and deep moral failings. On the other hand, it then went so 155 00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:03,120 far in the other direction that the the burden of proof became untenable and ridiculous. 156 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,879 But I want to ask you about that with because we're almost coming up 157 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:11,000 on the five year anniversary of Me Too, I think I'm actually six. 158 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:15,559 I think maybe six year anniversary fro Me Too twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen. 159 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,159 In was the beginning of October when the Harvey story dropped in the New York 160 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:26,519 Times. With some distance between those frenzied media cycles, Christian, which should 161 00:12:26,519 --> 00:12:31,480 conservatives look back on, like, what is the headline from Me Too? 162 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,639 Now that we're some years in the distance from it. Well, I think 163 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,360 as a culture, there are too many men abusing women. There are too 164 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:43,320 many men getting away with it, And I think the whole structure of Hollywood 165 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:48,639 makes it so ripe for that kind of abuse between an actress who may want 166 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,679 to curry favor with an executive and may push things in an uncomfortable direction, 167 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,960 to a director or a producer misusing his or her power in that way. 168 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,240 I mean, I think that the whole movement initially and the conversation was very 169 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,639 legitimately good and helpful and necessary. I just think it became political. It 170 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,519 became believe all women, and you could, you know, insert the record 171 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,960 screeching stop when Joe Biden was accused of something by terror read and then I'll 172 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,480 let sell this Simbolano. You know, the sorcerer supreme of Me Too said, 173 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:26,320 well, when we say believe all women, what we actually I mean? 174 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:30,440 At that point you knew was it was essentially over. And then when 175 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,919 the Me Too organization joined forces with the governor of New York who was accused 176 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,120 of not assault but of inappropriate behavior, and basically gave him talking points, 177 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:41,960 it was done. It was done. The movie was technically done. Now, 178 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,000 obviously there were remnants of it. There's still it still matters. We 179 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,240 still should be having some of these conversations, but as a potent movement that 180 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:58,159 had real power, it was over at that point. So I think we 181 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,200 all know. 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Times of the essence, 207 00:15:52,480 --> 00:16:02,120 protect your future with Allegiance Gold. Visit Protect with Emily dot Com today. 208 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,120 And Yeah, I think we've talked about this before, but again now that 209 00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:11,759 there's some time in between those early days of me too and then sort of 210 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,240 the backlash to me too, which was well deserved, do you have a 211 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:23,080 sense that this exposure and especially exposure that conservatives have have rightfully focused on of 212 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:30,120 Hollywood's abuses of women. Do you have a sense that things did fundamentally change 213 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,720 or did it just sort of slowly creep back to normal. You know, 214 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:37,399 I'm not behind the scenes, so I can't know for sure, but I 215 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,200 do think that more men are wary of it, of getting caught, of 216 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:45,399 knowing that women have more power and more agency, and that's their word is 217 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,120 sometimes used in interesting ways, but it's true in this case, so I 218 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,679 think that doesn't matter. But I also think it shipped away at Hollywood's alleged 219 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,159 moral authority. You know, I think I think we all knew that there 220 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,440 was hypocrisy behind the scenes. We all knew that some of their political posturing 221 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:07,960 was bogus. But to see the industry reveal itself in ways and also one 222 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,759 of the most horrifying elements of the me too move it in Hollywood was that 223 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,400 they knew. So many people knew. And you know, it could be 224 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,559 Brad Pitt who had his own encounter because he was dating Gwyneth Paltrow and Harvey 225 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,200 tried to do something with Gwyneth, and then Brad pitts, I'll knock your 226 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:30,240 lights out essentially and a good for him and beat but he didn't sign sound 227 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,599 the alarm, and then people, I Quentin Tarantino, I think there were 228 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,319 two women in his life. One was romantic and one was professional, with 229 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Thurman and Mira Sorvino, who had their own exchanges with Harvey, but he 230 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,359 didn't sound the alarm either. So you know when people who have power and 231 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,119 have clout, when they stay silent, and bad things keep happening, And 232 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,640 that's what happened in Hollywood. They just wanted to keep that secret. It 233 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,960 was so toxic and so noxious, and they did. They were very successful, 234 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:57,839 and I think the movie she said, from a year or two ago, 235 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,640 while it made about eight dollars in the box office, was actually very 236 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,759 good and did show the hard work that good journalists can do to expose something 237 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:12,880 like that needed to be exposed. What is your sense of Rumbles, let's 238 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:22,680 say, importance to this kind of alternative economy that's definitely developed in the entertainment 239 00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:26,279 world. You and I both have covered the Daily Wire very closely and some 240 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:32,039 of these other ventures. Rumble steps into the void and is now defending ardently. 241 00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:36,559 They've given you leftist Glenn Greenwald, who's fantastic, A big fan of 242 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:41,559 Glenn's and leftist Russell Brand, whose show is very interesting. They have defended 243 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,720 Brand they're they're really going to the mat for him. It is a hill 244 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:52,200 that they absolutely and rightfully are willing to die on with this pressure from the 245 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:56,759 UK government. From a business perspective, that's smart because it is the one 246 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:02,200 thing that distinguishes them from YouTube, which is already demonic Russell Brand. But 247 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,279 what is your sense also, just like in general, the fact that they 248 00:19:04,279 --> 00:19:10,279 were giving shows to people like Glenn, they've been supportive of people like Russell 249 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:14,200 Brand, they have been growing. It seems, at least from the outside, 250 00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:18,640 what role are they playing in this kind of realignment. It's a vital 251 00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:22,519 role, as a critical role. And if they buckle, I shudder to 252 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:26,359 think what happens next, because they seem like they're in the spotlight right now. 253 00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:33,119 They are in the crosshairs and powerful forces, including as you mentioned earlier, 254 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,039 the British government want them to take a knee, and they're saying no. 255 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,000 And if they do take that knee, if they are forced to stand 256 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:48,400 down, what happens next? I mean, the cascade of censorship could be 257 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,519 significant. And one thing I want to mention, and maybe it's slightly off 258 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:56,599 topic, but maybe it's completely on topic, is that it's one thing that 259 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,000 Hollywood says they basically sig on censorship. It makes me stick to my stomach 260 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,640 because someone who loves Hollywood product. But the fact that journalism by large and 261 00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:12,640 journalists have basically cheered on censorship or defended censorship or are not outraged by the 262 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:18,559 censorship we're seeing across the landscape is one of the most shocking stories of the 263 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,519 year of the decade, and I think we'll look back on it with appropriate 264 00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:30,880 alarm. It's not hard to spot they're rooting against free speech, and it's 265 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,960 everywhere. I mean, it's it's the Washington Post, it's the New York 266 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,599 Times, it's just it's Rolling Stone magazine, which I call free speech reverse 267 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,880 now in the twenty first century, that's shocking to me. So what Rumble 268 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,440 is up to is important. They're not saying Russell Brand is innocent. They're 269 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,680 not saying he's a saint. But they're saying this is a process that has 270 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,279 to play out, and until it does, he should be deemed innocent until 271 00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:57,400 proven guilty, and we can't demonetize him because then what do we do next. 272 00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,440 But you know, if they fall, you know, it'll be like 273 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,039 that parlor moment when Parlor was the up and coming Twitter alternative, and then 274 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:08,680 Apple and Amazon and all the biggies ganged up on it and shut her down. 275 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,799 It's never been the same and no other platform has really risen up in 276 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:15,680 its week. That is a perfect one to one. And again that was 277 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,559 the specific thing, and Parlor knew it, But that was the specific thing 278 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:26,599 that distinguished them from Twitter, and the one thing that distinguished Rumble again from 279 00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:33,799 YouTube from what Google is doing. The fundamental thing was this broader scope of 280 00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:37,640 ideas and speech. You really have to be careful if you're creating content for 281 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,759 YouTube and you make a joke about Trump and the twenty twenty election, you 282 00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:45,759 like this, This is the real thing. They do demonetize. They do 283 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,480 penalize people who make jokes for crossing the wrong side of their speech code. 284 00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,759 And you don't get that on Rumble, and so Parlor understood that that was 285 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:59,759 a fundamental difference between them and Twitter. The pressure was so immense from all 286 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:04,240 of these big tech companies, and you know, they made life very difficult 287 00:22:04,279 --> 00:22:10,279 for Parlor. But since then there has been this growth in that kind of 288 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:17,000 alternative economy system ecosystem where you have things like Public Square, which I absolutely 289 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,160 love. You have things like, you know, different all kinds of different 290 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,359 places. True, there's true social there are all kinds of different places for 291 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,960 people to post content. Do you think some of the stuff christian is really 292 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,519 here to stay? I hope. So, I mean, we have to 293 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:34,480 have Plan b's and Plan c's or we're all in trouble. You know, 294 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:40,480 you mentioned demonetizing or punishing someone for a joke. What's what happened Roseanne bar 295 00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:45,160 she was on Oh Theovan's podcast and she joked about Holocaust and Island. It 296 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,319 was clear for a she's Jewish, be she's never said that the Holocaust didn't 297 00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:52,640 happen. And see, she was just being she was going off on a 298 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,000 riff, on a tangent because she's a comedian, that's what she does. 299 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,119 And that was punished. And I've talked to a lot of different comedians and 300 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,720 they've suffered from tech censorship. You know, it's not dramatic, it's not 301 00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:07,440 draconian, but it's there. And often it doesn't involve nudity, doesn't involve 302 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,720 this or that. It's often about well you made front of the wrong target, 303 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,079 and that's that's chilling. So what we have now is we have locals, 304 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,920 We've got podcasting. Uh, Anthony Komi has got compound media, his 305 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,440 own little pirate ship in a sense, and Adam Grola has a literal pirate 306 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,039 ship, that's what he calls it. So I think we are seeing all 307 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:30,839 these different platforms pop up where it's free or speech. There's more ability to 308 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,039 speak your mind, and you would think that that would have a really powerful 309 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,160 competitive effect on the YouTube's of the world, because you know, if if 310 00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,359 if comedians start fleeing the ship, then they they're going to have to you 311 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,799 know, they're going to face some consequences there. But it doesn't seem to 312 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,720 be Uh, Listen, I use YouTube all the time. It's it's a 313 00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:52,759 it's a wonderful platform. There's so many different voices and topics and conversations and 314 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,480 everything there. So it's it's it's very hard to topple these behem as at 315 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:03,079 this point. But yeah, we need these these these other ways to get 316 00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:04,759 the jokes out, to get the commentary out, and you know, for 317 00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:10,240 people like Russell Brand and eng Glenn Greenwald and man Taiebi, they are essential. 318 00:24:10,279 --> 00:24:11,759 And I should mention substack as well, which seems to be a pretty 319 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,799 solid platform for alternative views, you know. I mean, if you're having 320 00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:19,240 a conversation or even a debate with someone, you could just say, listen, 321 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:22,880 hey, a lot of what we thought about COVID nineteen was wrong. 322 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,519 It's just wrong. We know it for a fact that it was wrong. 323 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,400 But you could go on YouTube and find countless videos of people saying that you 324 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,920 know, the vaccine stops at cold and you won't get it if you have 325 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,519 the vat I mean, just things like that. So why isn't that demonetized 326 00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:44,200 or banished? It's all thought control. There are certain things we can talk 327 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,640 about and not and I think every creator has to do that math in his 328 00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:49,960 or her head. If you're a comedian, is it worth putting that joke 329 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:55,000 on YouTube? If I'm a I'm a writer, I run my website, 330 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,720 you know, I mean, at this point, what do I do? 331 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,640 Can I talk about trans issues in any capacity that can be challenging to me 332 00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:07,799 and my revenue stream, And I'm just a solopreneur. I'm scared to death 333 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,160 about it. So all I can do is I can support free speech and 334 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:17,160 support the artists who are pushing free speech and shame the people who are not 335 00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:19,440 on board because free speech is everything. It's it's it's it's ball game at 336 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,759 this point, and if we lose it, I think we're done. You 337 00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:26,279 know. That's so interesting on a personal level too, that like, your 338 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:32,400 your small business, and these concerns absolutely affect how you operate. And actually 339 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,039 speaking of the behemoths who really are getting to set the rules and that sort 340 00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:45,039 of famous like Baptists and bootleggers type of like the type of system of control 341 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,400 that we've seen so many times where the bootleggers get you have this this huge 342 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:56,640 company sets the rules. It's chrony capitalism. They say. It's like they're 343 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,359 just you know, trying to create guardrail through the economy or whatever. But 344 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,480 it helps them get a leg up on their competitors. I think we see 345 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,400 so much of that going on in this space, and I want to ask 346 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:14,839 you you've been looking at Disney. Obviously, hilariously they brought back Bob Iger 347 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,400 to save the day after they started seeing a nose dive. Some of that 348 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:25,880 is clearly attributable to politics. Some of that is attributable to just this intensely 349 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,519 difficult media climate. As we're recording this, we just learned that the Writer's 350 00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:33,799 Guild, not the Screenecker's Guild, but the Writer's Guild seems to have reached 351 00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:41,000 a tentative agreement in their their strike. What is the future for Disney right 352 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:47,799 now? Christian, because they're facing serious headwinds, some of their own making 353 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,519 politically, they stepped into that. But they're in a really tough spot right 354 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,680 now, and I think, you know, some of us are sort of 355 00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:59,480 cheering for them to keep struggling, and by that I mean me. But 356 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,400 people might not want to see their demise quite yet. Yeah, it's interesting. 357 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,319 I think for a while now, I've been saying Disney will be fine. 358 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,599 They've got too much money, They've got too many iconic properties, they've 359 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:11,640 got too much of this, they've got too much of that. And now 360 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,720 I'm not quite so sure, because I think the marketplace is so challenging, 361 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:21,160 because I think they've taken this bulletproof brand that any company would just slay for 362 00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:27,759 and they've they've they've damaged it, possibly irreparably. I mean to get political, 363 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,640 to get inside the culture wars, to insert messaging within their family friendly 364 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,680 content that a large portion of the population doesn't want to see. In kids 365 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,000 programming. It's just it's just amazing to watch. I mean, I think 366 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,119 that business, you know, courses will be taught on what happened with Disney 367 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,799 for years and years, that you can take a company that was so beloved. 368 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,119 I mean, you know, it's you know, Disney was like Betty 369 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,920 White, who didn't love Betty White, who didn't love Disney, who didn't 370 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,119 grow up on Disney. We didn't have warm feelings about Disney. The parks, 371 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,240 the movies, the characters, the mouse ears. It just was this 372 00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:10,920 brand that we passed down from generation to generation. We loved it, and 373 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:12,640 you know, maybe we grew out of it at times as we got older, 374 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,000 but we'd want to have our kids and grandkids watch those classic movies. 375 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,359 And now they're at the forefront of this culture war and they're I just I 376 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,000 just can't believe it. I can't believe. No one was There was no 377 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,680 adult in the room. We said, we've got to stop this. This 378 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,039 is this is hurting us. And you know, at the end of the 379 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,279 day, why does Disney need to get in the culture wars? Why Why 380 00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:37,920 do I need my toothpaste company to be woke? Why do we need Apple 381 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,920 to be caring so much about the environment. I care more about the great 382 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,880 products. I mean, I think we can work on the environment through you 383 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,640 know, government methods, through uh, you know, organizations that help make 384 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,720 us a cleaner planet. I'm not against any of that, but just seems 385 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,240 odd that Disney would go to the mat and the subject and fight with Governor 386 00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:59,400 DeSantis and they're losing. And this is all coming at a time where the 387 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,319 whole econom mcmodel is changing and or collapsing. I mean, most of the 388 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:06,960 streaming companies are just bleeding money at this point. It's just not a viable 389 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,079 model. They've got to figure out what the plan is. And then here's 390 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,640 Disney just saying, Okay, we're going to alienate whole bunches of people again 391 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,039 and again and again, and then when we get caught, we're not going 392 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:18,039 to apologize. We're not going to course correct. We're gonna have Bob Iger 393 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,680 saying we're going to lower the temperature on the conversation with that any real action 394 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:27,599 behind it, I don't think he means it. So it's fascinating and as 395 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:37,119 an observers, it's often more entertaining than the Disney product itself. Hey, 396 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,960 y'all, This is Sarah from the Sarah Carter Show. Thanks for listening to 397 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,200 the Federalist Radio Hour. Healthy blood pressure is so important. 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I mean, like, it's hard to obviously 413 00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:14,000 put like a quantified percentage on this, But how much of it do you 414 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200 think it is politics? Because sometimes when we talk about this in the context 415 00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:21,359 of politics, I think people who don't cover the business side of it quite 416 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,640 as closely might overstate the influence of politics. I still think it's really important, 417 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,000 but how much is one versus the other? Do you think? It's 418 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,519 hard to quantifize specifically, But you're right. I think you know, you 419 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:33,960 and I are in this business. We follow these things, We read the 420 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,599 headlines, and the average American doesn't. But you know, I think some 421 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,240 of that does reach the average American, whether on social media or maybe just 422 00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:45,759 the films they're watching. So I think there is a trickle down effect that's 423 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,319 happening. But I also think the Disney product just hasn't been very good. 424 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,480 They took the Star Wars franchise and they can't even get a new movie off 425 00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:57,480 the ground. Every every new day there's a big a list. Director says, 426 00:31:57,559 --> 00:32:01,160 I'm not making a movie about Wars anymore, and then the Star Wars 427 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,000 shows that people we almost watched them, almost like it's we're supposed to, 428 00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:08,200 but we don't seem to have the passion and the energy behind them, like 429 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,880 The Mandalorian, which really did recapture the glory of Star Wars for two seasons, 430 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,160 and it seems like the Loss its way in season three. But yeah, 431 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,799 it's a combination of things. We have to kind of make sure that 432 00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,519 we're not thinking about we're reminding ourselves that life is in Twitter and vice versa. 433 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:27,480 But I do think that people do get exposed to what they do hear 434 00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,519 about it, and I think if they're not directly hearing about it, they're 435 00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:35,759 seeing the content the results. And it just hasn't been any classic Disney films 436 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:38,759 in recent years that I guess maybe Frozen was the last property that really just 437 00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:44,880 blew everyone away and was wonderful and you know, became a cultural sensation, 438 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:47,440 and The Mandalorian as well. But I think there's a lot of other films 439 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,880 that are just clunkers. They're just unmemorable, and that has a more powerful 440 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,559 cumultive effect than any you know, te tweet storm about how woke Disney is, 441 00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,039 but they don't discount that either. Yeah, I was gonna say, 442 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,279 and how do you think that's affected, because you know, we were talking 443 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,720 about me too? And just to sort of bring this full circle, obviously 444 00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:12,720 there were artists, Matt Damon being one of them. But even during the 445 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:19,920 whole cancel culture, when we were really in the throws on a daily basis 446 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,640 of these cancel culture news cycles, facing celebrities facing average Americans, Jennifer Aniston, 447 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,119 after some of the dust settled recently, came out and was like, 448 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,319 and I don't get the point of cancel culture, and it kind of criticized 449 00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:35,039 it. Maybe she wouldn't have done that a couple of years ago. I 450 00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,920 think it's still great that she did it now, But there was definitely a 451 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:45,759 time when all of this was more pitched and frenzied. Has that like me 452 00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:50,440 too? Maybe has that really changed the content that we were seeing common of 453 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,240 Hollywood or has it almost changed it for the better? That's going to sound 454 00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:00,200 crazy, but there was something that felt so And I don't mean this in 455 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,119 the sense that if any of our readers have read Stan Evans and these defenses 456 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:09,320 of Joe McCarthy, I hear you, but it felt kind of McCarthyist about 457 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,639 cancel culture, and it seemed like a lot of artists, especially in Hollywood 458 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:16,599 and everywhere else, took note of that and wanted to kind of do their 459 00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:20,480 own thing. You know. Shane Gillis is out on Netflix with the special. 460 00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:24,280 Now they've been supportive of Dave Chappelle, Gillis has only gotten more popular. 461 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:31,280 In a sense, has the cancel culture sort of fever peaked and improved 462 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,639 art or at places like Disney, has it actually made the content so much 463 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,480 worse because people are now even more risk averse, not wanting to wade into 464 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,320 those waters again. To feel like the debate's almost been settled. There's a 465 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:46,679 lot of answers to that question. I'm going to try to tackle them as 466 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:51,199 my brain catches up to them. I do think it's two steps forward, 467 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239 one step back as far as we're making progress against cancel culture, than bow 468 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,719 something happens, we're back to square one. I do think that the main 469 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:06,360 dream content providers are getting more and more safe, and more and more weary 470 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,320 or leary of offending group A, B and C. And I think what 471 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:15,679 that does is it gives space to a Shane Gillis, who is really smart 472 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:20,800 and really funny and really provocative and very interesting. And you can just tell 473 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,159 when you watch his stand up that he doesn't have a mean bone in his 474 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:28,559 body. But I think he goes in some challenging directions and he does it 475 00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:34,440 with wit and style and a bit of humility. So I think it's a 476 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,039 complicated time. I think that there are many, many people who are just 477 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:44,159 scared of offending someone. I think that absolutely impacts art. I actually opened 478 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:47,199 my book Virtue Bombs with a made up scenario that was scrubably, very real, 479 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,679 fake bite accurate. As Dan Rather would say. As you know, 480 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,320 imagine that you're a screenwriter. You open up your laptop and you want to 481 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,639 start writing a story, and then you think, well, well, this 482 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,480 character is Asian, maybe that he shouldn't be doing what he's doing for cultural 483 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,880 purposes, and what if I do this character. I mean, there are 484 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,639 so many things invading the creative process, short circuiting the creative process. That's 485 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:09,599 not good. It's not good. You know at the end of the day 486 00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:13,920 that the audience should be the ultimate arbiter. Did you go too far? 487 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,840 Did you push it in directions that are unfortunate, and just very before we 488 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,519 had the chance that one of the mics, as they say, I heard 489 00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:25,800 that there's an Office reboot in the works, and it's funny. I've never 490 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,519 seen The Office until recently, which is my fault. I dismissed it and 491 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:34,079 I started. I started to binge it, and I am on season seven 492 00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:37,719 and every night is a joyful experience because I know I have at least two 493 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,400 Office episodes waiting for me, and I'm so sad that it's going to end 494 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,440 soon, and I'm thinking, a, you can't do this again. Be 495 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,880 Mindy Kaling is basically said as much, you can't do this again. She's 496 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,320 even embarrassed of some of the work that she did. She said this, 497 00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:53,719 she's not even sure she would show it to her children. And then Steve 498 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,280 Carell, who is flat out genius in the role of Michael Scott maybe one 499 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,920 of the greatest comic performances in TV history, has said, I couldn't do 500 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,840 this today. So we're going to reboot The Office in this cultural climate where 501 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,400 you can't do this and you can't do that, and you're going to zap 502 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,880 away what made this show so magical. It just breaks my heart. But 503 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,039 again, these are opportunities for the Shane Gillis types of the world to kind 504 00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,119 of work on the perimeter of Hollywood. It's so much great comedy going on 505 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,119 right now, but it's on YouTube or rumble, it's not on SNL, 506 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,559 it's not on the late night shows. But gosh, there's a group called 507 00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:34,480 Free the People, and they are crushing it. Their stuff is amazing and 508 00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:40,000 funny and satirical and biting and just over the top grade. And they're just 509 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:45,679 some outfit they I mean not to disminish what they do, but they're not 510 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,039 NBC, they're not Netflix. They don't have all the resources at their disposal, 511 00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:52,920 but they have a modest budget. Their clips look great, they've got 512 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,719 funny concepts, and the technology is allowing them to compete on that level. 513 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,360 So that's maybe we're the whole ultimately lines that all the week keeps getting shamed 514 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,079 by outsiders. You just broke devastating news, Christian. The Office is going 515 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,679 for reboot. I mean, I guess I'm not surprised, and I almost 516 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:15,039 always support reboots. But to your point about what Steve Carrell and Mindy Kaling 517 00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:21,480 have said, this is going to ruin the legacy of one of the greatest 518 00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:25,920 comedies ever almost surely, and I think you know that knowing them, they'll 519 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,880 still have fun with these things. But man's uh, that's really that's that's 520 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:37,280 hits hard. And I also, I'm so curious why you think you've never 521 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,920 watched The Office before, Christian. Well, you know, it's weird. 522 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,320 I'm a movie guy and I have to for my job watch movie after movie 523 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,480 after movie. And there's a little bit this weird click in me, at 524 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,760 this weird tick that if I missed something in the beginning, it's like, 525 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,440 it's too late. I missed the boat like and I actually did catch up 526 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,920 at Breaking Bad and I was mesmerized by it. But a Game of Thrones 527 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,159 I started to watch, I couldn't get it. My HBO lapped. I 528 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,719 just never I just I just felt like I missed the moment and then I'm 529 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,920 like to go back. Seems silly, and maybe that argument is silly, 530 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,119 but it's just this weird thing I have in my head. But I don't 531 00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:15,280 know. I just started getting bored with all the movies that were available on 532 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,079 my streaming platforms, and I thought, but the hell, why don't I 533 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:21,320 just work to the office and here I am, you know, of course, 534 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,599 corrected on a dramatic level, you know. And I also I want 535 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:27,960 to be a little critical of Steve Carell, because when Steve Correll says, 536 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,000 and he's right, oh, I don't know, we can make a movie 537 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:36,079 a character like Michael Scott anymore. His next syllable should be a boy. 538 00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:43,599 Isn't that a horrible thing? Because Michael Scott is ignorant and selfish and childish 539 00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:47,599 and irredeemable at times, and you love him, you love him, and 540 00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:52,400 that's the genius of his performance. And it's this deeply flawed soul that even 541 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:58,079 the office workers love him too, despite themselves. And even though he's a 542 00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:04,920 moron, it's much a wonderful, layered, fascinating, deeply funny character. 543 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,039 And yes he is ignorant, and yes he says racist stuff, but he 544 00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:13,400 doesn't even mean it. He's actually trying not to be ignorant and dumb. 545 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,559 But because he is who he is, he can't help himself. How how 546 00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:20,440 fascinating is that that template? And how many actors could have pulled it off? 547 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:23,679 Maybe a handful, maybe less, But Steve Correll did it right to 548 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:29,280 make Michael Scott sympathetic. Is just it's a feat. There's no Archie Bunker. 549 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,119 Ask maybe on steroids, yes, yes, And actually you know that 550 00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:37,360 I'm going to keep pelting with questions on this because it's it's such a time 551 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,000 capsule, but in the way that you know things. It used to take 552 00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:45,079 us a hundred years or more for our culture to change so dramatically, but 553 00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:50,079 this is within everyone's recent memories and I'm totally Actually, I love your explanation 554 00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:52,880 for why you never got around to it before, because I'm the exact opposite. 555 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,079 I'm a TV person and I can't always bring myself to watch movies and 556 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,440 sometimes after a movie is like, I'm just not going to get to it, 557 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,840 you know, just it's done. Like I didn't weigh in, then 558 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,199 I'm not going to weigh in in the future. So why, you know, 559 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,719 strain my attention span? And The Office came out when I was I 560 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,679 started watching it. This is going to sound ridiculous, but the first time 561 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,480 I saw it was I think on one of my friends iPod videos. They 562 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:23,320 had bought an episode, they bought Office Olympics on iTunes and we watched it 563 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:30,480 on an iPod video. And that's just within like my living memory, Like 564 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,559 that's within like the last fifteen years. Do you get the sense as you're 565 00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:39,199 going back through these episodes of how much they reflect a totally different world, 566 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,519 a totally different country. Yeah, And you know what you said about a 567 00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:50,239 culture, It really it's really profoundly true that culture does change so rapidly, 568 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:52,400 and I think we still have to kind of wrap our heads around that. 569 00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:57,079 I mean, I just think that I think we're all essentially immature when it 570 00:41:57,079 --> 00:42:00,000 comes to social media used, like we haven't really matured and had the whizz 571 00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:04,159 them to use it properly. Sometimes it's that revolutionary. But yeah, I 572 00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,159 mean, you know, before I binge watched The Office, I was catching 573 00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:10,079 up on Modern Family, which I had seen from time to time but didn't 574 00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:14,880 do the deep drive. And when I watch a show like Modern Family or 575 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,639 even like The Office, I just watch I go, oh, you couldn't 576 00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:20,559 say that today, or you couldn't do that today. And these are not 577 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:27,199 outrageous shows. These are mainstream productions and there's nothing political about them. There's 578 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,480 nothing culturally demanding about them, but not getting in a soapbox, but just 579 00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:36,039 little jokes, little assigns and often it's the flaws of the characters which are 580 00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:40,400 so profound, where you know, certain people like the gay couple on Modern 581 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,760 Family, well as Mitch as the Redhead Fellow, he's kind of a jerk 582 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,159 at times, and Cam is just over the top and crazy and jumps to 583 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,599 conclusions. But that's what makes him lovable, and that's what makes him human, 584 00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:57,920 and that's what makes them funny. And I think we risk that where 585 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,880 my gosh, we're making a movie about a gay couple and they're fighting, 586 00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:05,440 you know, they're fighting to see if they're going to be a you know, 587 00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,119 they're going to stay together or not. But then can we make those 588 00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:13,360 those gay characters with their flaws. I mean, the term Mary Sue jumps 589 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:19,480 to mind. That's the term where we have these flawless female characters like Ray 590 00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:23,239 from the recent Star Wars films, or Kelly Marie trans character It was a 591 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,920 terrible characters. They're flawless, they're perfect, they're wonderful, they're noble, 592 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,559 they're strong, they're brave, boring. And that's one of the many, 593 00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:34,679 many reasons why I Woke has been such a has had such a terrible impact 594 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,880 on the arts, because you get characters like that they're woke, but they're 595 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:45,920 not entertaining. Well, that's bleak. Is there something on the horizon that 596 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,000 you're most excited for? Movies? TV, stand up specials, anything that 597 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,239 you're looking at in the near term, you know, generally speaking, I 598 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,119 just I'm excited by these different platforms rising up. Blaze Media has got a 599 00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:00,679 movie it came out a couple of weeks ago called Rio Eng which they just 600 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,719 bought from someone else. It was very good, and it seems like Glenn 601 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,119 Beck has been talking about being more active in this space. Obviously, The 602 00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:10,440 Daily Wires is going all in on entertainment projects. I love that these different 603 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,360 comedians are able to put out so much great content on their own terms and 604 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,760 do it in a way that's professional and slick. So, you know, 605 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,119 as far as mainstream Hollywood goes, you know, the director Alexander Payne as 606 00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:27,320 in a movie coming out of if it's called Holdovers. It's with Paul Giamatti. 607 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,320 He was a terrific director and they made one or two clunky films. 608 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,599 But I'm kind of hoping he goes, you know, finds his roots again. 609 00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:37,440 Tarantino's teasing his tenth and final film. You know other than that, 610 00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:40,159 I don't get as excited about the Oscar movie season like I used to. 611 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,039 I feel like I'm often more often let down than anything else. But I 612 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:47,440 do like the art bubbling up around the corners, and I think that's exciting. 613 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,199 It's rebellious. And I also think that the artists of today, they 614 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:57,239 really need to lean into this free speech message, this counterculture of non censorship. 615 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,559 That is a winning strategy. I think that will if America is still 616 00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:06,039 America. I think that the average person left, right or middle will resonate 617 00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,039 with that to a certain degree, and resonate with the people who are fighting 618 00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:12,639 against the scolds. But I think the messaging has to be more powerful, 619 00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,920 and it's gotta be laced with humor, because if we get out, if 620 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,800 you get up on our soapboxes and we lecture people and wag our fingers, 621 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,920 it's not going to work. But you know, if you watch a video 622 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,360 and it's funny and it's outrageous, but it's got a point and it makes 623 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:30,599 you think that it's a wonderful combination. Christian Toto is the host of the 624 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:36,519 Hollywood and Toto podcast. Also, of course, you can read Hollywood and 625 00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:39,679 tooto dot com. All of Christian's coverage is there. Thanks so much for 626 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,400 joining us once again, Christian. Oh, I love it. Thanks again. 627 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,320 All right, well, you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist 628 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,480 for radio hour. I'm Emily Deshnsky, culture editor here at The Federalist. 629 00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:52,960 We'll be back soon with more. Until then, the lovers of freedom and 630 00:45:52,119 --> 00:46:05,280 anxious for the frame right. What you're wrong with me, scribes wrong