Oh, cho, focus, hey, what' s up? All the
latyls welcome to beat Podcast. I' m glad to be with you today.
We obviously have Mr Kevin Richards at the audio controls making unnecessary noises,
doing weird things. So, if there' s any complaints or applause,
any assertions about our effects and come today is thank you, Mr Kevin Richards,
and today our therapist Alias, Alias how good promo, not the one
of the season. What I mean Yes, that was not Kevin' s
idea, whose idea that was. It was mine Wau, because I feel
like people see me as very innocent popcorn, just as poor thing falls they
won' t let her talk. That' s it, that, yes,
that' s true. I' m a character, but I'
m not as innocent as all of you. That' s a character.
Yeah, it' s a basic po. Well, hey yeah with me
you' re a great character and I think that' s been the best
promo in the history of podcasts, promos and podcast promos You want to introduce
me. Yeah, not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet.
I have to make an announcement. This episode is sponsored by Baja Inners.
Baja Innewers is an accurate, accurate, super- accessible na low company.
So it' s like when Jesus said Adrián alpaca and we all stay
like this and give them as a cliposo it' s bad sleep with me
and then the cow and now they' re Stge. If I hadn'
t grown up with my two brothers julying me, still heron, it'
s still that way. It was the risk. I saw memes that yes,
yes, yes, I was doing good. It' s hard to
explain. Anyway, I meant the bank. Today we have spectacular guests.
This is the first time we have both in Uncle Podcast and today with us
are Paola Bellenger and Luis Abregon. Fort Applausus, the studio goes crazy or
wey and le. Today we are going to deal with a super important topic
and today' s theme is my toxic relationship with the Church. My toxic
relationship with the Church. I had another title. Oh yes, I forgot
to tell you more. What he looked like. What he looked like.
Addicts to the Church, Addicts to the Church, all children of the Church.
I don' t, but let' s go into detail. But
you' re going to end up being that, yes, today, at
the end of this episode, that' s the message I didn' t
imagine, I was, and I didn' t stop being. And that
' s like you had a toxic relationship with the Church. Yeah, and
now you feel guilty. Now I have other relationships or something else, in
my opinion, proud. Now I have the right relationship with the Church,
but it is no longer toxic. It is a relationship of love, of
service, of conviction, but it is no longer what you think better than
the people who have class concerts. No, of course not, but I
like them. Both titles work. Yeah, no, and I want to
start by asking you guys how you' re doing something you want to tell
us, something like random about you guys, something that happened to you this
week, something that humanizes you a little bit. What' s your favorite
color. That' s a good question. It' s very complicated to
say what your favorite color is. For people like me. It' s
like me, well yours is black, yeah, but I have a second
favorite color. I asked where mine answered the len but I have a second
favorite color that no one knows, no one will guess, but you or
blue sky, no, the rose, no, no san k mango,
the purple, yes, my favorite color. Well, I can tell you
why it' s been like a month. My favorite color is lilac,
hilita, that' s my hors chop litlack. My favorite color after black
is purple. To Donatello. Ah is a is a good reason, is
a good reference. The turtle Ninja gave it to him It was the barney.
That' s good, in fact, not even small. So machine
barney, but then one could never see a bar or I never know no
I don' t, you don' t allow yourself. The jaguar was
already in adolescence when it came out. So yes, yes, in fact,
you were entering youupep when he came out you were a week off,
I saw a lot of the boy of eight. Ah, when it came
out to the favorite one, yellow and black and white, because that'
s the way TV is when I' m the gray one. In fact,
when the color TV came out. I remember everything. Not the net
one was never a Disney kid. I' ve never seen any of the
Disney series or what to watch. He grew up in the super champions,
I mean, the Masons were a little bit more otaco. I grew up
without TV and grew up without shoes, without arms. Then I grew up.
I grew my arms already big, but it was the rights. Yeah,
that was the problem. You' ve had it I don' t
know if to answer. Who is it? Who is it? Who is
it? I don' t know, I don' t know, I
don' t have it registered. Hello, but for what functions, you
have to put her home, forgive me. I don' t keep you.
All wrong, all wrong, like you hear the carnation, because a
company called Pacrine, called Aquaclin eye, Aquatlin to Quakelin. Yeah, the
other day he touched me from my landlord list, he touched me at your
house. But mable a person, a friend of yours named Abigail Diaz.
Oh yeah, yeah, like what almost a month said he was out of
town. Yeah, we were. And if we were, yeah, hey
it' s a name for forgiveness came out. Right now, I'
m working. It bothers you like that, okay. I don' t
know what it was? What do you need? What do you need?
No, what do they sell? But follow this boat later to explain.
Yeah, you' d be perpetrating your job. Yeah, thank you so
much for the hour. You know, Marco, I' m telling you,
I think tomorrow, early tomorrow, it' d be super good for
Ok inhabita, he gave my number. Yeah, Abigail Diaz, you know
that on the list that I have in some owners I get away sue Aguilar
Rodriguez and then I already gave this gay your number to better agree on a
date. You know we' re doing free water analysis and to offer you
water- themed filters. Yeah, they' re systems, ah, okay,
no, super good, thank you very much. I think tomorrow,
tomorrow works very well for me, because today I have the day like this,
but I didn' t see us well until free. I was pretty
much there to burn carte. Thank you very much, thank you very much.
There we are now this r to see why you give him. Allow
your friends to give your number along. I don' t remember giving him
perfixt. I mean, he was staying at my house. So, I
mean, you have friends who sell your number to companies. Now, yes,
we wanted a water filter. Yeah, so it' s not as
inappropriate as maybe good. I mean, yeah, we wanted a water filter
in the house. Then Chancy said, ah, Chance and it interests him.
No. No, I don' t see it as a bad thing.
He doesn' t hear anything gradually about you that no one knows either
Luis Wow well or no, he knows everything or tell us something about You
that no one knows. Besides light and secrecy, I have several, but
good to say. Yes, per secret a secret of Paola. I know
you feel like nobody does, yeah, yeah, I don' t have
any problems. Well, you can make trouble now. I hope it'
s not up to Paola, it' s not up to you. Please,
of course all how easy when we are spending every weekend, everyone asks
me done with i e, without fail, without doubt i e, they
are in Spain. Yeah, there' s the chocolate milk. Here'
s your sleeping addictions. It' s like sleeping. Yeah, he asks
that it' s like a lived no. He' s not a dick,
no, no, it' s not my summer, but he'
s like a asked baby, a vibr So we' re already seeing frans
like that at night, I mean, but she doesn' t want to
prepare him, she means this, she preferred this. We haven' t
had any chocomil since we got married, so we got an 18- year
- old. This one then we' re seeing like this. Friends h
me, I do three things to you instead of sleeping. Ha. All
right,' cause they' re married. If you' re not married,
that' s not right. Then it' s not a sacrifice.
You' ve made food Listen, you thank me. You' re done.
But of course how you take cho with it is hot. It'
s cold. It' s cold sometimes, but you take it fast.
The lion doesn' t take it. Yeah, fast enough. How much
to listen to them with how much you will listen. That' s a
very good question. It' s funny. There you go, because that
' s what' s gonna surprise you to see are two big spoons,
two big spoons of fact one thousand two s was big sugar. Oh your
u is, yes, how that helps you sleep crazy, but I would
give you try at home how rich the recipe is. It would give me
energy, not me. Hey. Yesterday you asked me that if the grapes
gave you energy and I wouldn' t let you sleep because I was eating
or I was eating grapes, as well as a little 11 of the night,
but you were eating grapes as a mod i e, chaponencia. So,
they were inhaling grapes. And I did it Hey, the fruit,
the fruit sugar. You think he won' t let me sleep and I
said no. I think nothing will happen to you. But now that you
hear, it' s like you don' t chat me up. I
think it' s a sleeping battle. I think no, no, no,
clearly not going to sleep, but yes, yes, it' s
a secret that no one knew. Thank you for knowing now. A lot
of people, but, well, yeah, there, tell me Paula,
what' s the first memory you have in your memory. That' s
a good question. Yeah, what' s the first thing you remember is
jaguar goes, therapy way. You didn' t just do it, I
just took therapy. That way I' ll say good question. I think
I remember a lot like the house where I grew up, like in my
grandparents' house watering little plants is you aim the music and it' s
going to cry. If she starts to cry, she gets well watered begging
because chas seedlings already knew what watered her, right, but they would tell
you it helps aha. Sure, I think they gave me the empty boat,
but oh yeah, there I was watering plants, but yeah, I
had like a gardener. And you like that, well, no, but
it wasn' t like I had much choice. It' s already a
good first memory. What' s your first memory of life. Luis Ay
Jaguarmenta. I don' t know how we' re gonna get there.
This is good for you. We' re going to get to I'
ve got like it very much presents in memory the first church I went to.
And but I remember and it' s the clear, the church I
went to. Yeah, I remember why we were meeting at a school called
sn pto Laurence. And what I remember most is that I got a power
ranger aha in church. In the church there were opposites of those who were
like the monkey with his head and he was without a mask and then you
rotated him as well as his torso and then he already had the Mrs.
I remember those yes and I remember that toy in that living room it'
s like my first handcuffs. It' s not pretty. If they knew
that Luis was being disguised on Halloween, they would dress him as a pastor
to how I didn' t order him like this, I brought little suits,
yes, I brought a tie and a traditional and big church bible or,
and then they would come to school and what you came in disguise and
said of macho and hard streets woman shut up, don' t talk to
me. This is edited and cut. Of course not. This is one
hundred percent live hears in the church where I grew up there was still as
autumn festival faith. They told him and it was enough to fight against Halloween
culture, to go to the sweet pillar and it was better to come to
the Church and do a costume contest, but it was biblical costumes and you
had to dress up as some Bible character and my mom remember that I mean,
my mom was just as determined that you are going to win, because
I remember you once told her children can' t win because you are the
shepherd' s children. And I agree with that. We' d say
a rocket in Mexico because you know where and said no, my children won
' t win because they' re the shepherd' s children. They'
re gonna win because they' re the best costumes. Oh, that'
s a good place, that' s fair. Yeah, then I remember.
Here' s Kevin to corroborate what your sound is like as it has
it, as it has it micro, it has to manifest in some way.
Here' s Kevin. Anyway, we dress up like a lot of
things. We dress up, I' m going to say honorary mentions and
if they get the pictures, they' re going to put them, otherwise,
they can' t even imagine them there. I, miss twenty-
two, the one with the salt statue, the wife of the ote.
I remember it was a white lid. I remember we disguised ourselves as Jonassi
and the whale. We disguised ourselves as who the whale was. The whale
was a cardboard thing. Giant, giant, it was a cosota like that,
giant and inside was Jonas and it was Kevin and it was like the
whale was my dad holding the cup thing and that Vin to another was like
that in the pothole and that there, walking hears and then or Jonas inside
the whale. They say the whale' s stomach acids made Jonas lose all
the hair in his body, all his hair, and all the pigmentation on
his skin. Then, when he went to Nini to preach to forces,
Louis listened because he was a bald bato, without eyebrows, without eyelashes.
White, white, white. That would be great if it was him.
So, what came, more or less not, like nothing, nothing flat.
The point I was unpigmented. He just saw. I was all over
it, I don' t know if it' s skimped, but it
' s depigmented. We dress up as Sanson and Delilah, if they have
him at the pon I have those photos. He' s already looking at
me like no more work. Anyway and then we disguise ourselves as the four
horsemen of the Apocalypse. Only yes, you remember there was a song I
think it was from three brothers. Yeah, I saw Barney, yeah,
it wasn' t with two friends, and then it was Jesus It was
five thousand gentlemen. It was a baby and I was me. I remember
that I was famine and I was like the rider. It was a skeleton,
it was like a skeleton, or your mom couldn' t make normal
costumes, I mean. The horses were cardboard boxes as well as large and
made them some impressive cardboard horses and you kind of put it like that on
the torso. I had some kind of grippers or ps grippers, like I
don' t know what they were called a man. It was straps,
straps, like some straps you were wearing and you were walking and you were
taking me. You walked with the camellabas, you walked with the horse riding.
We win every year because my mom doesn' t, seriously, it
' s how many people left the church, because the pastor' s children
won every year when I was understanding, but other shepherd' s children beat
us. My dad wasn' t the chief pastor, he was one of
the pastors. Or it' s okay, and we win every year because
seriously, my mom was looking like she was like the I don' t
know the project of her life, I mean this. They don' t
even have to win this contest and the truth did it incredibly. My mom
' s really good with Scraft. She' s very good. If you
didn' t feel pressure not to win. I wasn' t a kid.
I was just having fun, having fun dressing up. Yeah, it
was really fun,' cause my mom did everything. We would make up
and send us ready and already and there I was with my horse and there
was a Barney song that was going to run the horses, run the tememberos.
Yeah, okay, thanks to seeing clearly you' re going to manifest
yourself to a war mate. You remember to see, to see you remember
to see manifest that you remember, yes, remember. The point is,
we ran all over the house like that with those caffes. I' m
sure Kevin doesn' t have as good memories that season as you do if
you' re looking at his face. I don' t agree with the
Washi, you remember watching the VHS. That' s so funny. We
liked it, sorry I gave so much with this father your mom' s
creativity, because I think there are chavas that all the halloweens dress up as
Delilah rap, I don' t know, Horseman, death, as a
conventional citizen city of Sodom and Gomorrah. You heard about Gomer de gog and
then diversifying Lot' s hyins to Lot' s neighbors. Yeah, hear
what it is that there' s a section on certain podcasts that I love,
that' s like an anecdotary. No, but I feel like there
are all kinds of people in the Church. There are super interesting, super
good people, but there are also a lot of super weird people. Someone
here has some weird, weird anecdote about something that happened to them in the
Church or when I don' t know in a youth camp or in a
group or something. I have, obviously, without saying names to care for
identities, is that. It' s cloudy what, but don' t
say names. No, but the theme can be anyone. D Besides,
you give me permission, yes, it has to do with him. No,
no, no, then, no, no, but nothing bad happened.
No, no one ok you can count it, but not if you
' re making omen, nor do I know which one. Essa couldn'
t leak. Let' s see. Let' s see, we can
experiment, but what we can remove if it doesn' t work or if
it doesn' t work, we can remove it. There' s everything,
there' s all kinds of stories. Yeah, yeah, which ones.
I have several to see. I' m not taking a stand.
Oh, if this is true, fake history. If I am, I
won' t say it was here well, China. I' m just
gonna say this happened. I saw it with my eyes. Nobody' s
gonna tell me it didn' t happen. We were on the first campus
of the church, where I was with my olive soups. We had a
little campus. It was like a mission in another area of the city and
very strange people arrived. I don' t know for any reason. There
was a concentration of people, a little strange, and I remember that once
I was directing the praise, I was co- leading. Thank God,
it was during a song that I wasn' t directing. Then I did
not feel the responsibility of having to intervene during this moment. But we'
re directing praise, et cetera. And a woman starts as if to manifest
as if she were demonized. Now I' ve seen myself in multiple expressions
of Marimonami. It' s not that I' m afraid of you,
it' s not that I don' t know how to scare you,
I' ll take whatever you want. No, no, no, but
this was awesome. I remember the woman fell to the floor, I mean,
she came out of like the rows of chairs she had gone to the
side she threw herself to the floor. He was kind of wallowing. All
this happened in seconds and I remember one of those I promise you before God.
Pass your hands, so that you can lie down. She passes her
hands here, all of them lifts their feet and like crab, so as
if I explained to myself, as a bow begins to walk. It involved
a ice cream, so yes, horror film begins to walk across the street.
Now for that there were like two people, but how much the body
hurt. After that, I have no idea. I have no idea the
consequences of opening doors. Friends, the consequences of opening doors are not only.
It' s okay, I' ve got eyepieces to see that,
so, like, I didn' t want to go back and see it
directly because I said I' m gonna distract all the people who aren'
t even seeing it. It was a relatively large church. Then this whole
side hadn' t noticed. I mean, I kind of turned around trying
to be discreet that doesn' t work out. But the point is,
I didn' t see her all the time, but I remember seeing her
do it like that and I said, oh, my God, it was
made just like my stomach got numb. The point is, I remember two
men who took her out and a woman went out to pray for her and
I didn' t know what happened anymore. But that was kind of weird,
no one ever saw the man who prayed for her again, not a
woman or she there, yes, she was a good woman, but two
men pulled her out, so that' s from the arms and legs.
Now we weren' t kind of intentionally causing that. I mean, it
was like a time of prayer and ministration. Yes, then it was very
strange for me to see. I' m not saying no, I mean
real, it was just weird. It was like I was really cool,
I mean, walking like a crab. I mean, if there' s
that, you don' t see it. He' s doing, not
that, you don' t see him. All ten don' t not
that you don' t see anywhere. Don' t be a kid,
either. I did, it was normal churches, no, but they have
a weird story cuella disy a girl. Well, no, but I remember
when I didn' t know, about seven years ago, at a point
of grace, an old man came in and he was there. I don
' t remember the details very well, but he fell asleep. I don
' t remember the gentleman and then he fell down as a conversation. You
don' t remember that, or I was asleep and then it happened like
that, but it was wrong and distracted everything. Yeah, yeah, everybody
like that and the qui, but he didn' t faint, fell asleep.
I don' t remember the mos we don' t know, but
it was like this. No more, you hear a rattling, totote everything
and one in great lordship. It was very I have two very rare stories.
The first we were at a youth congress and if you see that sometimes
preachers or those who minister so strongly have their subjects. No, I mean,
they suddenly like people screaming and doing things and suddenly they don' t.
Sometimes they don' t walk in the mood and start telling them no.
Don' t grab me. No. The pianist' s kind of
not. That' s how it happens to me. I made the band
stronger. No. So, this time the preacher started running and the people
in the audience pass in front of the audience you' re telling her and
then they' re there and a girl starts screaming and doing a lot of
show, a lot of noise, and the pastor says like you' re
not distracting. Please, take it easy. Someone calms something like that.
Then this girl starts to move more. If he falls to the floor and
is on the floor like this doing his show, screaming and crying and crying,
then he comes if I don' t remember one who is now volunteering
with us, he' s in that Congress, then. Then she loads
it and takes it to a little room, to the side, and then
you kind of pour it, but she was just like the baptism. Yeah,
he takes it like the little room next door and he does it like
that and I' m born literal and he came back very proud that smart
guys you' re gonna have to solve it, solved it, worked it
out The pastor already did what he asked me to do. Wow. I
think we' re all relatively church kids. Yes, you, when you
started when you considered that you knew God, Jesus the concept of non-
Christianism as religion, but Jesus as Christ, as the clador, I believe
you are talking about Christ the Messiah. Yes, good question, just to
clarify yes, I no longer believe that to see I was inculcated all my
life religion not as we know it. But already when I had a conviction
of my own that this was what I wanted to do for the rest of
my life and go to Jesus, I think it was up to like sixteen
years old, like obviously I didn' t have such a supernatural experience and
that I was in intimacy with Jesus, no, but it was like you
start getting in more and things start to make sense like oh yeah, I
mean, I' m sorry I personally see it in my life and it
was, but it was like up to sixteen seventeen, it was like ah
ok, it does exist and it looks this way and it feels this way.
So I don' t know maybe you' re going to say that
when I was five, because I made it super, because the beast of
it happened and exactly and that' s when fastaor machista no longer dressed me
as shepherds when I knew she would be real. There fell the revelation pro
and you kind of what was your first approach to the church. I grew
up since I was a little boy in church. My parents were not pastors
since I was a child, but they were leaders and founders of two churches.
And until the fifteen years I just started traveling here to Olivo, and
I remember having a conversion with Steven, with your brother, and he was
talking to me about grace. At that time I was like reading a lot
to John Pippers going Pasthon Luil. Then I came from a church where I
grew up a lot in knowledge, but at the same time I felt like
I had to be able to please God. I had to get God to
love me. So, when we started talking about grace, like there was
a click on my mind where at almost a moment everything that the knowledge that
I had already kept from childhood made sense and it was like it was,
as if the pieces had fitted and the faith made sense, because before that,
even though I had faith and believed, I had many doubts and sometimes
like that my mind was leaving just like this limbo of whether God does not
exist, if what we are doing, not a crisis of faith, yes
full then at that moment it was a very strong conviction that that is real
and the grace of God was present in my life and this is what I
want forever and forever from the age of fifteen. I knew that I wanted
to dedicate my life to serving God in the Good Ministry, and it is
that something very important is to remember that we all serve God full- time,
not that we who are his disciples, either at your work, at
your school, with your art in sports and there are some who say that
in the Church only two percent of people are called to serve God within the
Ministry, as we know it, or within a staff of a church.
No. Then. That makes me very interesting, because I think we all
go through different stages of our Christianity here. There is one as an informative
table that I love that constancy a conceptual map, consisting of six parts,
that speaks of the process I am looking for here in my notes. It
speaks of the process that we absolutely all go through as Christians. No and
start with him with the recognition that there is a God and end with being
a human being that radiates the God that exists as you begin to know and
recognize that there is a God and you end your life by irradiating to that
God that is invisible. It doesn' t make me very crazy, because
it happened to me super much like Luis. I believe that equal all my
life I grew up as having a knowledge, because you grow in the Church,
then you hear it not as a certain theological knowledge and god. But
I had never understood the concept of grace. And I think it was even
my case. I' m not saying it has to be that way for
everyone, more or less, but I' m not saying that. But
in my case it was until I accepted the knowledge and revelation of grace,
that I believe I made a commitment to God. I think it was kind
of like I accepted his gift, like I accepted him as my lord and
Savior. Not out of fear of Hell. I don' t know if
it happened to you, but he grew up in a very pretty church.
I' m not like judging her. I think I think my perception was
very legalistic and very much like you have to accept Jesus, because if you
don' t go to Hell, then it was pretty much like a meaning,
like I do it just for fear of punishment, instead of doing it
for love of and I think when I understood the concept of the grace of
the Cross, I think that my relationship with God took a much more serious
and much more committed step, no longer for fear of punishment. I mean,
I' m not trying to make our marriage work just because I don
' t want you to be angry. I mean, that' s like
I don' t know, I mean, that' s the little way.
I do or, but based on fear here. It' s good,
this one' s over You' re scaring me so much. That
' s all bullshit, bullshit, you dominate me, yeah, and you
control me. Look, of course you don' t know. That'
s what you say. Anyway, I do it because I want to.
I want to, I want to blossom into my marriage. I don'
t just want to do things to see says a great philosopher of our era.
I' m not going to say his name because they cancel me,
but you don' t expect Freud to move the world by two forces.
Cannon a home. The world moves only by two forces, fear or love.
And if it' s not one, it' s the other.
And if it' s the other one, it' s not the other
one. Anyway, everything you do moves or moves. He is moved by
fear or moved by love. And you have to be very wise at the
time of making your decisions not to let yourself be moved by fear, because
that' s like the natural, the human being, not like I tell
him this for fear of losing him. I say this out of fear,
to lose myself, I say this out of fear of losing what we have,
etcetera, etcetera. And I think Jesus' revolution is not to do
it for the good, not for the love and perfect love of God.
He throws out all fear. Anyway, I think that at my fifteen years
or so, it was that I accessed a religion, a relationship with God
through religion. I' m bald in religion. I think religiosity is bad,
but religion is not bad by itself through love and not out of fear.
For the first time in my life and it was revolutionary for me look
at me I love it. This is the stages of the Christian faith.
No, and this understands all that we are as Christians. Number one is
the recognition of God. Number two is the life of discipleship. Number three
is the productive or service life within the church. Number four is the introspective
stage, where you ask yourself the question why you believe what you believe.
Number five is an outbound journey. That introspective journey leads you to realize why
you believe what you believe and then explain it to the world and discipleship and
all that. And number six is the stage in which you radiate to the
invisible God, in which it is no longer about what you do, but
about who you are and how that well lived life leads to your radiating to
God. Obviously, stage six is Billie Graham at the time, you Gine
Petersen, that is stage six. Don' t sing John Piper. I
don' t know. No, I know, no, I wouldn'
t dare say so much, but it jumps into the wind. Oh,
sure, yeah, I' d be more like Ray Warren. Yes that
Ahorita spoke out before everything I love that reck quaren Ahorita is in a season
where she pronounces in favor or against all the evangelical scandals that are happening,
and I love that. But studies usually say that most Christians, about ninety
percent, not sixty percent of Christians, never go beyond stage three, which
is productive life or service life. Then they are stuck in a life of
Christian activism and this episode is called my toxic relationship with the Church, because
I believe that the Church is that place where, if we are not careful,
we can become stagnant. Now I' m not saying that the Church
is a bad place. We need the Church. The Church is us and
it is not about putting to competition good what is better to get together on
Sundays in the Church or to sit on Mondays at the table with my friends
to disciple them. It' s not one or the other. It'
s both of them. We both need to have a balanced faith. The
problem I see on the subject of the Church is that many of us fall
into toxic activism, not in a season of our lives. Maybe stage three
reveals this new emotion and says hey I' m toxic activism and I'
m here to stay. And that toxic activism, which is not biblical,
which is not something that Jesus instituted as a model for all of us.
I think it has a root, it has an origin. Any toxic activism
comes from a lack or absence of emotional or affirmation or a spiritual one that
all of us have come to have. We had to experience the worst stage
of toxic activism in our case or of toxic relationship with the Church, when
we had to plant the Church where we are today. I disagree when it
was in my case. Yeah, no, for you maybe it was in
the youth group before planting the church. When we are in our church as
principal, I think that there I experienced I mean, I think that when
we planted the church, I was just like we had Mila, my whole
daughter had passed out of every month, I had a health crisis. I
was about to die. My daughter was about to die because she had a
diagnosis. I mean, it landed me on one level I don' t
know how to explain it to you, that is, I do, I
think I was on another channel of saying yes, the Church is beautiful,
the Church is me, but not the Church. It doesn' t depend
on me, on my activities, not on my area, on the Church
wherever I go, not the service doesn' t depend on me, I
mean I think the tribulation and the weight of the trials led me to a
place of much destruction, I don' t say that complete restoration, but
breakdown in which I was no longer codependent with my service at all, because
I realized that I couldn' t and realized that life was even more than
your service within the Church. I still agree with that. I think it
is important to serve within the Church. It' s congruent, but you
must serve everywhere. I mean, who are you? If you serve only
within the Church and you don' t serve within your home and you don
' t serve within your work, that is, it' s not consistent
with your identity, then it' s just what your motivation behind the gold
is. But anyway, for me, in my case, I think it
was more prior to the pandemic when we were as in the group of young
people. I think I was looking for this It' s kind of very
vulnerable. But that' s what this is all about. I think I
was looking for a lot of approval from you, not that you put pressure
on me. I think I used to wear it alone, but I kind
of wanted to gain your approval through my performance among the Church, because I
knew it was a place where you and I met. We liked it a
lot like doing the same thing, a common passion again, it wasn'
t at all your fault, I mean, it was more something that I
was building my head. But anyway, I think that in our time,
like where we were traveling a lot, we made a group of young people,
we made a heart, we preached. I wanted so much to perform
and accomplish so much to please you and feel like it was useful for God
’ s Kingdom at some point I came to think. The more I do
the better I am like my value is tied to my effectiveness or my productivity
within the Kingdom of God, which is like what it means not, that
is, now I have a very different mentality, but I remember a lot
of thinking like I traveled all night to get to seven meters to have flutes
of praise and the creative team and of this, and then I stayed to
eat and I saw three girls and I gave them counseling and I hugged them
and prayed and it was genuine, that is, there was a lot of
gender within that was prayer and minister and in the end there was discipleship and
I preached about grace and what you want and I thought today I did so
much for you God I felt so good, but in reality I was super
exhausted, I was exhausted. And I think the God I now know is
a god who loves me despite my lack of productivity, that is, he
' s a seasonal God, he' s a wave God and I see
him very different from what I saw him at the time, but I think
that on my part, on my own, that was my most toxic time,
although maybe it was my most productive time, eye, but yes,
yes, yes, I mean, I think that in my case I'
ve never felt like serving much affects the way God gives me. But of
the things that, being like in leadership in the Church, that most frustrates
me is me to have a level of passion that others do not have.
And I want to measure people or the standard that I do that I do
myself not then. What happened to me was like I saw the trip all
night and but I got here early and I was at the two meetings to
set an example to them that a number isn' t what matters most to
me and you have no excuse for whatever it is that you tell me that
it' s not that x then. I think it' s even a
little more toxic, of course, because it' s just looking at the
performance of other people. And besides how I feel it' s very absurd
to mean, to take for granted, things from people' s lives,
from what they' re living, from their problems, and to measure my
life with theirs. It' s very unfair, no, but I think
that' s going for me. I' m still sort of battling a
lot in that area. I' m not very frustrated to be or work
with people who aren' t like that with that same passion. And I
think just that has also been a subject like that within a lot of marriage,
because I want to run and I have like this very high rod about
commitment, so for me it is commitment to the Church and she has another
position and that was complicated, yes, of course, and this, that
is, is something that we are still going through. I mean, you
tell it that like a season that you' ve already spent for the two
of us, we' re learning to sail just like I had five seconds.
I mean, that was something that happened, but then taking him into
my marriage, when he was in another season, in another process and it
' s valid. That has been the hard part where I still consider myself
even though we are already. I already consider that the last facets of the
process are still seeing it clearly and now you are seeing it differently, because
motherhood comes. Yeah, and it' s how you' re gonna be
bad to vary marriage, ministry, a heart, church, and being a
mom. I mean, sitting around coloring with your daughter is service, I
mean, it' s nice. That' s service, not necessarily stopping
at the church to sing. Those little acts are marking your daughter' s
life. Singing in church is a pleasure for me to sit in color is
a service. Yeah, it' s nice, I know it totally and
for us, too. We don' t have children, but we also
have a life of going and coming, going and coming, and I think
we' re learning to sail. I don' t know, a couple
of months ago we even had a pretty strong fight because we were in L
A working and we had a couple of days later and I told him there
' s Disney and here we go back. And Louis answered me we don
' t have to go to the Church on Sunday because we are already with
trips of a heart that normally no longer lately we don' t miss,
that is, we return for Sunday, but already they were accumulating several yes
and they that it is not that we will miss or we will miss,
We will miss several lices. Aha told me right now, we' re
missing last Sunday. You want to miss this not- so- textual guy.
We' re not going to Disney, we' re going to church.
It was like a what to see eye to me. We are not
the chief pastors, that is, I understand that when you are the chief
pastor, you already have a commitment, it looks different in our dynamics.
Luis began to carry a position that did not correspond to him and I am
a faithful believer that God gives grace for every season and it was a grace
that I felt that God was not giving us tremendous weight, that is to
say leave your Disney in general, carry the life of the Church every day
without having God' s grace to carry those issues, it will be overwhelming
and will frustrate you and there will be fights. Then it didn' t
start to happen like this and I started badly by reversing so I could grab
a certain grudge against the Church because I misinterpreted it. I said the Church
is depriving me of Disney, Disney. That' s the most important thing.
No, no, and you call. It had nothing to do with
Disney. It was all clear, of course, with enjoying his life,
it' s his marriage. It is clear, vacationing for a while and
how you faced that grudge you had to change him from the Church. You
' re doing this to Luis of course, yes, you must name him.
Yes, the truth. Yeah, yeah, what I' m on
is day zero. I don' t resent the Church. I got you.
I beat you that the Church is good for me. No, but
my husband' s a bastard. I said I love the Church. I
have a healthy relationship with the Church. The Church and the Church of Christ
is not a migle class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally
up to me. I' m not going to disentangle myself and I think
I fell into that extreme hear and forgive, sorry, what does it tell
you they didn' t want prepared. I wanted to ask him how he
looks, how he looks at the resentment towards the Church from you, because
I think that many people are now re- enacted against the Church and have
not noticed. But those who surround it or surround it have already noticed.
Not to see and is that normally not. The Church is not the problem.
That is, if you are a person who currently has a grudge with
the Church, the Church is not the problem. It is either you or
a situation that is happening around or someone within the Church. We had it
made an example that maybe I can give it right now, but about when
they treat you badly in a restaurant. No and I can treat you badly
the waiter, but you can always be free to talk to the manager or
talk to the owner of the place. And this is the same with the
Church. We, as people, are the waiters, we as pastors,
we are the waiters, but the owner of the Church is God. And
if the Church did something to you, you can go talk directly to God
and fix the situation. And it was what started to happen to me as
he is my husband, because Luis told me how it is that the ladies
of the Church have to see you there that you went to the two services.
I do, that is because we complain about others and we' re
not seeing exactly and I don' t complain about others. You complain about
others. I mean, and the ladies don' t need to see me
there. You need to see me there. Then it started to be seen
that the ladies see you there, the lady, the exact lady. She
didn' t know who Mike was coming to, yeah, you' re
going to Disney soon, but we invited them all. No. The point
of this is that I remember having it that way. It' s like
your question, so I started to see him like I didn' t enjoy
going to church, like these panics that suddenly give people because it' s
going to be Monday and they have to go to work in a super toxic
place. I felt like it was Saturday night and the next day, that
is, me, until I already started to interpret the problem as not the
Church. The problem isn' t my community, because it' s already
there. But if there was another I mean, I think it was a
combom in your very interesting case of a me being as I am, i
e putting a prey on you that I shouldn' t have put. But
the other reality is that you have a personality that solves, that' s
your wave, that is, you' re a historian, you' re
a solver, you' re a solver. So another ishu is that inside
the church, that is, as soon as someone sees you, they'
re going to come to you and tell you a problem to solve it,
and they' re usually super xs problems that there are, that is,
net you had to ask me no, and I think it was the combo
of I mean, I forced him to go and then, on the other
hand, going and she having to deal with certain things like I didn'
t have maybe the energy to do or yes or it was exhausting or it
was coming from a super week of getting to the church and you get to
the church and what you want to do that is I' m already going
to take it safe, no, no, and nothing else. I heard
that way in the praise that Paul is happening behind this or is that and
she runs with coordination of me there I go so you know how it started
to be like that. And I remember in an express conversation that I was
having with Kimmy and I said it' s not that I feel or that
I' m good jaguar. He once asked me a question in a restaurant
and that' s why I asked if he went out with Paola your relationship
with the Church and I didn' t. I don' t want the
Church anything like that. Like it and I talked it over with Kimmy and
recommended a book and emotionally healthy discipleship is called and that book To me,
paola has helped me a lot to see the disciple in a way as different
from what they normally teach in traditional churches. I mean, it' s
very different, so I recommend it. It helps me deeper, yes,
complete more late and tired and less so as I don' t know how
to say it' s not the shi divo, that is to say I
' m spiritually wrong speaking, that is to say it gives you the strength
not to care as much as certain things, but good forgiveness go ahead and
we still stop even accepting invitations from us to preach to churches. I stopped
preaching for a long time if I got on the platform, but I kind
of advertised nothing else, nothing that I had to be as very spiritual,
in my opinion, it was, because I wasn' t having the best
time. I didn' t have to get on a platform and convince people
of something I wasn' t even there myself. I wanted to be genuine
with myself and just a little while ago we accepted our first invitation to a
place to preach after a year and a half, that is, after,
and I felt full I mean, I said already that this already feels healthy,
already feels that I am in the right place doing the right things.
But so a process that we have not finished. Even in other words,
the reality is that no longer. If I' m a lot of Luis,
he keeps forcing me on a lot of things and I always tell him
we' re not going to Disney the Lady. That favor, you'
ve got to see each other say hello. Mr Silence, a lot to
Jaguar, because my crisis came when Mila was born. Yeah, and my
body and my motherhood sued for a lot more at home and like, all
of a sudden I didn' t want to go to church. Not that
I didn' t want to, I couldn' t tell the story of
the father' s day. You want them to tell it. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It makes me humanizing. Anyway, look here on this
podcast. We like to tell personal stories that talk about moments in our lives.
Those moments don' t define us as people. If you, as
an audience, decide to define us according to certain moments, it is you
who is wrong. So here we' re going to try and ventilate our
traps into the sun, hoping someone can use this and improve. But that
story I like a lot, because it speaks of a mental and emotional state
in which many pastors are, many leaders, there are many husbands or shepherd
wives, leaders, prophesies, save me from treasurers, again that story not
to not give me to burn my husband, but to because we are usually
no longer there. You' ve already changed a lot, and I thank
God for that. And I' m not saying that everything I did was
okay. But I say this because I think there are many people who may
be in that same state of mind today, and many women may perhaps be
inverse in role, but they may be suffering because they have this mentality and
it is relatively toxic to the Church. I remember when Mila was born we
fought a lot because Mila came with an unfavorable diagnosis that if she had a
disease that could not be detected until she was a month old. We had
to wait a whole month after she was born to know if she was healthy
or not. We were going to know if he lived or he didn'
t live basically yes, he had a disease, a basically terminal disease or
not. Then I was. I think it was the worst stress I'
ve ever experienced in my entire life. It wasn' t a pain,
it was an anguish, it was a very strong pain, that I didn
' t know how to deal with. And along with that, I had
health problems. I started having heart problems. They didn' t know what
it was, but I remember that I still had to put a little thing
on it like a sticker in my heart with the wires that I kind of
sensed the heart rate. The point is, about two weeks or three weeks
after birth. I have already returned to the Church because we had just planted
and I understand the responsibility of being present. But I didn' t feel,
I didn' t feel the mental ability to do it. And I
remember you were like that at the time you were dumb. We' re
planting, we need to build, build, ministries, relationships, teams,
that is, it was very difficult, and I understand you on the side
that it was very difficult. We didn' t have like the right people.
I believe that also, as Paula says, trying to navigate in an
area that is not entirely your area of grace. No, I mean,
a first- time shepherd isn' t going to have the grace that a
pastor who' s been making it clear for thirty years, of course,
then we were sailing. That the Church from day one looked like a ten
- year- old church and it wasn' t going to be clear and
in my head, in my head I don' t say that I could
have done what you would have done because usually I didn' t have the
energy and that' s why we' re team. But in my head
I knew it wouldn' t look like this. Then I had a little
more patience, I said the Churches of God. I am in a very
strong process and there is no problem with me being absent at a time,
but at two three weeks I do not remember. I went back to church
and it was a father' s day and you gave yourself breakfast and packed
up my little things we didn' t have help at home. Today we
have a beautiful person who has made my life more beautiful and easier. But
back then we didn' t have her then she tries to navigate everything with
a new baby, with heart problems, pressure medicine. I had a lot,
a lot of things and I remember going to church and it was an
effort for me. Yes, but we went to church and on our way
to church after having breakfast with you or before I don' t remember.
We were just gonna go, we' re about to leave the restaurant.
I remember I told you that love, I don' t feel like it.
I mean, if after the church some kind of plan is made with
friends, I' m open to that, but I don' t want
it to end up late. I need it to end early, because I
' m extremely tired. The doctors all told me that I need to sleep
and crown newborn towards someone in that pass and that that can' t be
done, so you need to take as much opportunity as you can to do
it. Then I want it to end early. I remember what I told
you. Please, I' m asking you to finish any hangout early and
for you it was like a woman is not on my side, she'
s not seeing the same thing as me. I see what I started complaining
about. It' s started. He started complaining. I remember you already
told me you' re throwing me the party before it starts. You told
me something like that can' t be. I mean, you' re
killing me all my little motivation that I have. I' m trying my
best and you don' t see it the same as me, and that
was like super traumatic. We really need to get him to therapy. We
haven' t done it, we' re going to do it, because
to date that hurts me a lot because in my head I feared for my
life, I had for my daughter' s life and the truth I didn
' t fear for the Church, that is, it was like the Church,
but it' s going to prevail regardless of and I think that,
like I think that ay, I don' t want to cry, I
don' t want to cry, I think that at that moment I felt
that at that moment you were putting the Church as an institution. I put
it on top of my life, of course, and that hurt so much,
because you' re my husband and above my daughter. And anyway,
that was, I think what he smelled of me why it hurt so much
and to date three years later, I tell it, no, but it
was very strong. And I do believe that we have been taught to think
that the Church to many of us, not all of us, but we
grew up as that the Church must be our priority above all, when I
believe that the problem is not the statement, the Church must be above all.
It is the problem what the Church is, of course because I do
believe that the Church must be above all else. But the Church can be
seen in many clear ways and your first ministry is your home. Sure.
So, to me, yes, the Church is above all else. But
the Church began in my house. And if my house isn' t right,
nam serves to run people or raise volunteers or whatever you want and by
the end of their day they won' t be there. I mean,
I think that there are a lot of angles through which we can learn something
valuable. My husband hasn' t asked me, so I' m sorry
many times. That' s why of course we' ve cried it together,
that' s for nothing, it' s for you to stab him,
I mean, I don' t think you' re there at all
anymore. Hate me more. But, but, but I do want to
say as if you' re there, pastor already and you' re sorry
about your wife or the other way around, maybe it does happen, but
the other way around where you' re putting your well- being, under
the well- being of an institution. You' re not understanding what the
Church is. Yes, exactly and that is what my heart is crying to
me, that is to say we are not understanding the cause of Christ,
yes, and I believe that, thanks to God we have been working it.
I think we' re either 100 or not. But definitely, in
a seventy eighty percent understanding if they' ve gotten better and and and yes
I think there were several of those. That' s the one I tell,
because I have it very much in mind, because I have a very
bad memory, but it' s also like the most this easy to explain
was one of the first ones that I said it couldn' t be more
important to the Church than I do feel it was, like, your reaction.
I think they can make two reasons. One is then really like seeing
the Church like that or it was your way of dealing with the reality that
your wife is sick, your daughter is sick. Of course I do,
maybe I do, too. I think what Ahorita said right now we can
learn from that anecdote from many angles. Not one of those angles is not
not something I had to learn at the very beginning in therapy was that I
am a person who cannot relate to unpleasant emotions, that is, painful emotions,
negative emotions. It' s hard for me to touch them. Not
then, when, for example, you and Kimi are melancholy, not me,
melancholy hurts me, then it hurts me from a very small time and
you like it because you have a relationship, but you have a healthy relationship
with melancholy, not with granny. From there comes in in sigran two,
but I don' t, I don' t have a healthy relationship with
melancholy and I haven' t learned to handle it. So it was for
me to realize that I don' t have a healthy relationship with adversity.
I don' t think I was coming from a season right now, years
ago that we had so much adversity that in my brain it was already overcome
adversity I don' t have to face it again. I mean, that
' s it. Then I run into adverse and difficult situations again and I
didn' t know how to touch those emotions. So my way of dealing
with negative emotions was working and what cause more noble than the church. That
' s not what you think. Then I stuck with it and it wouldn
' t allow me to be afraid. It did not allow me to feel
pain, It did not allow me to feel anxiety, because anxiety was another
of the emotions that had prevailed most in my youth and I said no.
I can' t go back there. Then I think whenever someone hurts us,
a good exercise is to imagine that someone as a child not knowing,
managing the situation that he is happening. Not then, back then I wasn
' t funny to myself or to my wife. I think if it'
s not funny with you, it' s funny with nobody. Then I
got stuck in all that and at the same time, I did have a
very superstitious, superstitious Christianity in which I serve for God to bless me.
Then. It' s a continuous transaction if I serve God, my wife,
he' s not going to die. If I serve God, my
daughter, she won' t be sick. I' ve got that triple,
too. Suddenly it' s too cannony, because at the end of
the day it was like Kimmy and you don' t realize it, but
I' m doing this for you to save yourself. I' m sando,
I' m saved you said, no, you don' t leave
me to save you. But I remember with me, the newborn, I
wanting to kind of have you next door and you were telling me that I
' m going to see such a person in the Church and I was thinking
why. Because you' re giving that person time and all to me and
I remember you saying I' m building something for us. This is the
best I can do for you. I want it to make you the best
life and I thought this isn' t the greatest life, but you'
re not even there, I wasn' t talking about a view like the
corporate ladder of ay I' m going to give you a better financial life.
Spiritual, spiritual, that is, it was as well motivated, but
it could not be in more yes and it is not biblical, that is,
if we are honest put it in context, it is not biblical,
that is, we could still object because Right now, I am studying Luke
fourteen. Jesus says that whoever wants to follow me must carry his cross and
whoever does not hate his kindred and loves me cannot be called my disciple.
Concepts like that taken out of context, divide many families, divide many marriages,
cause children to generate very heavy traumas, that alienate people from the faith.
If you stay away, then I believe that what Jesus is saying there
is you have to love me over loving others. It doesn' t mean
like I love you knowing your wife or your kids, not much less.
So I think I misinterpreted loving Jesus with loving the church, which is one
thing that goes before the other. First it is my love for God and
then it is my love and service for the Church. It is that I
am where, as I ask again, but then what is the Church,
because perhaps we are going to call Jesus and hence the Church, her Church,
not the Church as an institution, the Church of Christ. I believe
that there, in measure of those I mean, I think that Jesus is
called, love your family and love the Church, and by Church, I
mean the community that is around you is that they are not things to me,
they are not different things. I mean, loving your family, it
' s loving Jesus, Exa, putting your wife as a priority, it
' s putting Jesus as a priority, I mean, for me it'
s not like I love my wife and then I love Jesus It' s
like it' s, exactly the same thing in front of God, when
you actually experience it, it leads you to love and sacrifice yourself. I
think the main topic here is to ask you why, why you' re
sacrificing yourself and why you' re sacrificing yourself for that cause. Not then
what causes it. That is, for many people the cause is Christian activism.
That what Christian activism is. More prayer meetings, more congresses, more
events, more of all that, the church I dare say pen to the
healthy church. It' s discipleship, I mean, it' s Christians
sharing as a family at the table, so they' re going to get
us together on Sundays. It goes hand in hand to join the table on
Monday is impressively necessary, one thing to have the other. But it is
also to be asked why I am sacrificing myself, for the cause that I
am sacrificing myself. And there, yes, I think we have to sacrifice
ourselves, first for the cause of our family and then for the cause of
the neighbor and then for the cause of the yes of the lady I met
at the traffic light. And so we go, but yes, there must
be an order. I think yes, I think the wife goes first,
then the children go. Yeah, that' s biblical. That is,
yes, to love your wife as God I love the Church, every vicious
circle. Not for that, no, but there' s a mos.
It' s very important, because we' re going to Disney, because
it can also be misinterpreted. Then you were talking about sacrifices, and it
' s not like I was debilitating at night either. Then I didn'
t see the Church on Sunday because I' m very tired, that is,
the not is this either, I mean, you have to be in
the Church on Sunday, so we don' t want this to become like
ah. Ah. Well, Paoli Kin said they were tired and then the
husband said not to go. And I never went ia, i e at
two weeks of parity and I had already gone to church the day before milan
was born was you were heading for the advance. I believe in the Church.
I think, I love just think the Church is bigger than about four
walls. Yeah, and I think even if they do create the four paradecycles
to bring you together because we were, we' re not good at having
them alone, they' re not. That' s because I go to
church at home only my whole life. I don' t agree with that.
With you, I don' t think you' re doing it well,
of course point, sorry, but I think that, but I think
that understanding all that, there are moments and there are crises where you have
to prioritize, prioritize, prioritize, prioritize to clarify your family, because you
understand that it' s like the foundation of a pyramid, I mean,
no, there' s nothing good to have you like in the top well,
if you don' t have family, you don' t have church,
or it' s clear we don' t see now just happened,
unfortunately, about Pastor Robert Morris and the crime he committed many years ago.
There' s no what, and that led to as if your family isn
' t okay, if your person isn' t okay, you can'
t have a church anymore or it happened to Carl Lens. If your marriage
isn' t right, you can' t have a church anymore. So
many times by winning the church you lose your marriage, by winning the church,
you lose your children and without realizing it you are putting a time bomb
on your ministry. Also then we are called to make holistic balanced beings and
it is worth it all of a sudden to bring him down to the church.
And when I say go down to church, he' s a pastor.
It' s okay if you don' t run all the voluntary prayer
meetings. It' s okay if you go to Disney on a Sunday.
It' s okay if one Sunday you don' t go to the good
mpin and sit down to receive. Now, when things become patterns, both
some that seem good and those that we know are bad, they end up
destroying, that is, pleasure. Pleasure is good, but if compulsive pleasure
is harmful. Because we have, I mean, friends who grabbed it like
that mentality never brought back the clear boiled ones. And we have to understand
that in the end, the journey of living a life with Jesus is something
you have to do for yourself, but not for yourself alone. They'
re very different concepts. You need the community of the Church and you need
it yourself. And this is where I love marriage, because when Luis and
I came to an agreement that Paola, if you' re tired, you
don' t need to go to the first Union, because I even go
to the second. You don' t feel well to go to either of
you don' t go, but he said I won' t let you
miss more than two Sundays, because I know you and I know you can
get used to it in front of you is like that comfort. So it
' s okay to also push each other and say how and I also talk
to him friends and tell him hey, I haven' t seen you on
three Sundays what' s going on right now. I mean, it'
s also worth something that, for example, that that' s a very
recent thing, where I tell her after suddenly because of her work, she
travels all week for video productions and stuff, then something very recent, is
to tell her that if you' re tired, because you see only the
second meeting or don' t come, there' s no problem, but
I tell her, but I' m going to go to both meetings.
Not then it' s my mentality, it' s my question. Or
what I want to put on the table is, as couples in the Ministry
and in leadership, you can run at different speeds, that' s not,
I mean, there' s a way it works well or not,
because in my case I think the problem divorces us, separates us. Tell
me Bro. That' s why I came not, because I feel that
the conflicts we' ve had is me wanting her to run at my speed
and she wanting me to walk at her speed. Right, and that'
s where we hit. So, my last conversation, which I think was
really good, that' s the last time we had how this theme was
how you can walk, I want to run. I' m not gonna
tell you to run, don' t tell me to walk, and I
think he helped us right now. I think it' s been good.
I didn' t feel it was something like it brought conflict. On the
contrary, but how they see it, how you' ve lived it,
because, because I' m comfortable with that decision, but maybe you,
if it' s that nothing is treated as you want, lost it,
that is, it' s wrong, it' s going to burn.
I have one to see It' s worth one. I believe that as
everything in marriage is valid as long as they agree, agreements less what is
clear sin, of course people strange by clarification, people are plotting marriage is
valid. What it is like in parentheses, for example, as long as
they agree, examples of sins in marriage marital sins that is, I think
the tendency, that is, life is uneven, that is, I feel
that it will suddenly force you to run and suddenly walk and you will not
always be at the same frequency and there is the rhythm of being one in
marriage, maybe we can be one. If you' re running, I
' m walking. It' s a challenge like what and I think as
long as they genuinely agree to say I' m going to walk for you
to run and I' m going to run for you to walk. I
mean, if you agree, I think there' s no problem, because
it' s not necessarily unequal yoke, because I think there' s an
agreement and necessarily if you' re running or walking in this metaphor doesn'
t mean that your conviction or your passion for God is different. There are
only different seasons, in my case, that already had a daughter and thinking
of mothers who have three children, where they have decided that the mother is
going to make it like the primary caregiver, because they have to walk or
be spiritually speaking, although who knows how much God teaches them through their children
chans is running, I would not say spiritually speaking, but as in activities
in terrible service life, because perhaps spiritually they are short, they are running,
they are learning. In fact, they' re running, but I
think maybe you can look like they' re walking and it looks different.
I think the heart of the matter is as long as they genuinely and completely
agree, and I' m not saying it' s easy and I'
m not saying that I didn' t take it as if you and I
would die, because how beautiful it is when the two run we walk them
like how beautiful that is. But as long as they agree, that would
be the key to me. If you don' t agree, then there
' s a problem there. Yes, a severe problem and it has it
I think it' s both, I mean, it' s to understand
in which seasons they' re going to trade places, because, undoubtedly they
' re going to trade places, that is, after the theme that Mila
was born, I fell into a hard anxiety and Jimmy had to run a
lot of things and I was walking for health and there are instances. I
mean, Kimmy came out of church staff work, but she started running inside
the church on other levels while working all about a heart like I think there
are seasons and something that has hurt people a lot is having a bad idea
of what' s unequal yoke. I think people have thought that the service
of both sides within the couple must look identical so that it is an equal
yoke and if it does not look identical, it is an unequal yoke.
But I think there are people who do invisible things but they' re important.
In other words, there are people who do very visible things that are
less important than invisible ones. I mean, there' s everything going on
in a relationship. Then, at the end of the day, the subject
of the yoke had to be a strong ox and a weak one for that
to work. I mean, if there are seasons where an old young man,
a young man and not an old man, one experienced in tases of
opposites aha, then it' s like yes. That' s right.
There are times where one is going to run and the other is going to
walk and let the other take it, and there are times where it'
s going to be the other way around and it' s super good.
So, I think it' s very valuable to talk about these issues to
de- stigmatize rest, de- stigmatize being in seasons at odds with your
partner and also encourage people to remember that the Church is an imperfect community of
people who chose to be brothers and sisters to be family. And at the
end of the day I was going to say that every time I came to
the Church, the women moms of the Church and even the or many moms,
but most moms never judged me clear. I' m very grateful for
that. If any of you know this, I felt embraced by the community,
yet yes, I had missed two Sundays because my daughter was sick and
I mean, I never felt judgment on the part of the Church. And
that was in this new facet If there have been moments, but in this
new facet it was not healing and it was so healing because the moms saw
me, but how you are. They hugged me and then I told them,
but okay, I' m sorry I didn' t come. Don
' t ask me for forgiveness, how good, you Ni, you should
be here, go home I mean, it was like a brother' s
permission like that. Okay, yeah, yeah, me, for me it
was super healing and made me help. It made me feel like it helped
me a lot in my process and I feel like I was telling you it
' s just that they don' t judge me right you want a lot,
but they don' t matter. The ladies are looking at you,
damn it, candles, but I want to see you both at once.
I don' t think I can complain that there are some extremes where I
do, but I think that in general I thank God that he stayed as
he was because at some point I went back to my lane and we started
walking at the same rhythm S. A lot of them are personality. I
mean, obviously toxic activism is wrong, but many of us are full a
call, a gift a talent and a personality that God gave us and I
did, I had to learn to get down and rest and vacation and not
go to the office and say, that' s why I have a team.
There wasn' t all the cell phone. To pay. Cell phone
' s the hardest thing I have to do. But there we go,
there we go. It' s been a good pilgrimage. Last concept conclusions
already to say goodbye I' m going to Disney. Disney' s a
me. That' s the thing down here, showing up the information for
a trip to Disney. And we' re all gonna say we have trips
to Disney. Let' s now travel and go for a shirt pass that
has been a mikey but low to say beat, to say beat by a
mine with a bible. We' re all going to Disney together on Sunday.
If it' s not worth it in or. I think it'
s simple to lock up with every person you have at your side has a
different process than yours because, because we are each formed by different values,
even within the same religion. We have different values at different types of parenting,
even if it' s your brother. There' s a very good
concept that would be for later, but it' s the one that'
s your brother. He had different parents because they were in a different economic
season here no longer had help or had different things help. So, as
you never judge someone else' s process, but always try to see how
you can help him, that is, if it' s a process where
he feels low. I didn' t go to the church before I pushed
him to ask why and help him get out of there. So it'
s just how you all live a different process and your process isn' t
always the valid and the best and the only yardstick to measure others. Sure,
100 percent sings like. Yeah. For me, in short, it
would be wrong if you don' t go every Sunday. When it goes
well, I' m in the same way. That' s what I
' m taking this conversation with me. Well said Jesus go to the Church
every Sunday, or quote which one he lived in. It' s an
apocryphal book. They weren' t there. It' s not around you
plan Enock' s book Enoch Luis you know what better you dedicate to singing
and walking, just like the promo before, like in the promo of this
season, already a combac so good that I didn' t say it because
I said no that wild throw it to see your comba okay look, you
tell me better can you' re better than talking again you' re better
singing than talking now you do better to sing, don' t tell me
better. Not that I never said. I' m not afraid, I
' m not afraid to tell you better. No yeah, hijis say it,
by the way. Anyway, you' re better, you' re
better at talking than singing You know you' re better at what you do
nothing, I don' t do anything, it does things, but they
' re invisible. They' re invisible, they' re magical. You
know what I know, what it does. Listen to Mos what he does,
but think about the wits. We' re going to feed the haters,
those who hate me, improve the podcast that keeps them in nets.
Yeah, sure, you were gonna feed them and it was gonna get out
of control, but you have to tell them what you' re doing.
Friends, Body, Hey, Hey, Party, What You event, so
listen guys. Thank you, thank you for tuning this episode of the season.
Number seven of Uncle Podcast can find us everywhere like a latium heart.
They' re appearing on Luis and Paola' s social networks. Here on
the screen we' ll see you in the next episode and stop being toxic.
Don' t be toxic to the Church anymore. Go to Disney,
do invisible things, sing instead of talking. Go to church. Don'
t say no. I don' t go to church because you don'
t believe. Don' t stain, don' t stain. Go to
church. Yeah, look, I do. I' m going to say
this, what it does to the Church. Six months in a row,
you can give yourself the right to go to disti If you do not go
to the Church, you are not a true disciple of Jesus. So things,
truth God, bless them, see you next week. Take care bye.