WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.279 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.839 a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already to support 3 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:12.800 the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that 4 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.440 started just five dollars a month, and when you sign up, you get 5 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:21.079 access to all of our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 6 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:25.280 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, 7 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.719 but this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel 8 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:35.479 and podcast if you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go 9 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:40.200 and check us out at patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse. Hello everyone, 10 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:45.520 welcome to another episode of eyes On and we're really I'm going to jump right 11 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:49.320 into our guests and then I'll intro the other two. Not that the other 12 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:54.000 two are less important, but we're very excited to have Bill Gage back on 13 00:00:54.079 --> 00:01:00.159 today, an old friend of the Team House, also with a senior Secret 14 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:06.239 Service officer. Actually that's not the right word, isn't, but nevertheless senior 15 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:11.799 within the Secret Service under two presidents Bush forty three and Obama, but also 16 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:17.480 is just a guy who has really can lay out the you know, some 17 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:22.120 of the complexities of providing security, which is a lot more than many, 18 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:29.120 you know, many the public realized what goes into all of this. So 19 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:36.319 anyway, I'm welcome again. I'm Andy Milburn, decent minds, I'm Dave 20 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:40.040 Parker says, but it says I'm Dmitia Catacos. Bill. Thanks again for 21 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:44.480 Bill. He jumped on with us on Saturday, like like last minute, 22 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.719 right after it happened to and he gave us like fifteen minutes or so, 23 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:52.439 you know, while things were like super fluid and still happened. So I 24 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.239 appreciate that, Bill, Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, and like my 25 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:57.400 running joke, you know who says the Teamhouse doesn't have breaking news, So 26 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:00.760 yeah, yeah, I did from the parking lot of a grocery store. 27 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:06.000 It's awesome with my son in the seat next to me in my truck. 28 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:12.000 So definitely a very raw, kind of rough street interview there. So thanks 29 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.680 for having me. I'm a big fan of the Teamhouse, and you know, 30 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:20.039 I do listen to the Teamhouse and to Jason You're and Andy's new podcast 31 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:22.840 as well, so I'm a big fan. Thanks both. Great. Bill, 32 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:24.159 Well, you know, before you have to rush off to all the 33 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:32.120 other things and other audiences who clamoring for your time. What happened and why? 34 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:38.439 Yeah. So you know, my running joke with my son, who's 35 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.680 fifteen, is he could probably sit here and give this interview because he's heard 36 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:45.039 me say the same things over and over again to the New York Times, 37 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.439 Fox News, Washington Post. I did an MPR interview this morning. I 38 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:53.240 did the BBC andy from your home country, did the BBC here a little 39 00:02:53.240 --> 00:03:00.919 bit ago. So you know, clearly an attack, right, an assassination 40 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:07.199 attempt on a major American political figure, the Republican nominee for president, who 41 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.639 happens to also be a former president. So you know, if we want 42 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.639 to back up, I, like most Americans, I was going on about 43 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.680 my life and a buddy mine hit texted me and said, hey, you 44 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:21.120 better turn the news. I turned on the news and I was watching just 45 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.319 moments after it happened, and was talking to my wife and I said, 46 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.840 hey, I don't know how somebody could have gotten a gun into the event. 47 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:31.560 It must have been like a three D printed gun, maybe like a 48 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:39.479 homemade gun. Somehow subverted the magnetometer checkpoints, somehow got the weapon in I 49 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:43.159 was watching more and more video and then I'm thinking, did somebody throw a 50 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.080 rock or a cell phone? Because the audio hadn't been released yet, right, 51 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:51.120 so it was just the video of the incident. And then, of 52 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:54.280 course, as more in video and then the gunshots are being released or getting 53 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:58.280 the audio of the gunshots, I'm thinking to myself, well, all right, 54 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:03.039 so now somebody Now I'm thinking somebody in an elevated position with a you 55 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.560 know, I don't want to use the term sniper rifle, but somebody in 56 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:13.159 an elevated position with a rifle firing shots. So then you know, I'm 57 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:16.720 watching the video and we really did did do a bio on here, Andy 58 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.040 and Jason. I've been on here a number of times, but you know 59 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.879 I was on the Counter Assault Team for six years. The Counter Assault Team 60 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:29.079 is a pretty elite unit within the Secret Service, really formed after the Reagan 61 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:34.040 assassination to counter the Secret Service operates on this protective principle that you learned day 62 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:41.839 one of Special Agent training, which is a maximum to the protect ee, 63 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.680 minimum to the problem. All right. So what that means is, you 64 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.959 know, if you're around the protector, you're on the shift as a Secret 65 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.600 Service calls it. I think in England, Andy they call it close protection. 66 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:58.839 So if you're immediately around the protectee, don't necessarily draw your gun and 67 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.279 return fire to give cover to that protect You want to cover them with your 68 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:08.839 body and evacuate them away. So Kat's mission is the opposite which they want 69 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:13.920 to Actually, Cat's mission is divert suppress, neutralized. That's actually in their 70 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:19.160 sort of mission profile. So they want the bad guy to actually, hey, 71 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:24.639 someone shooting at me. It's not the people around the president. KAT 72 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:29.199 wants to draw their attention and then suppress that attack. So the guys on 73 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.959 black that you see on the stage, those are members of the Counter Assault 74 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.959 Team that I was a member of for six years. So so yeah, 75 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:41.839 clearly someone was able to get access to an elevated position and get some shots 76 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:47.519 off. If you listen to the timing the shots ring out, you know, 77 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:53.720 you see Trump grab his ear and within milliseconds a second or two, 78 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:59.319 the counter snipers are now engaging him and actually eliminate eliminate him, right, 79 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.240 eliminate the threat. They kill him. The Counter Sniper Unit, the CS 80 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.879 unit, is a very story unit in the Secret Service. They were stood 81 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:12.439 up after the Kennedy assassination. The Secret Service is divided into two sections. 82 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.040 You have the Uniform division and then you have the agent side. It's just 83 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:18.879 the way it's evolved over time. Don't ask me why it became that way, 84 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:20.959 but it's just the way it is. Kind of like the Marine Corps 85 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.920 part of the Department of the Navy or whatever. It's just the way it 86 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:30.120 is. CS some of the best shooters in the world. Their qualification course, 87 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:35.439 one of the final qualification go or no go exercises for them is I 88 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:40.040 can't remember, but it's, you know, shooting a bull's eye at five 89 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.720 hundred yards in like three seconds or something, you know, from a standing 90 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.279 dropping to a kneeling. I forget their requirements, but they have very stringent 91 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.279 requirements. So if you listen to the sounds of those gunshots, you hear 92 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:57.560 CS engaging him almost immediately. And from there's been some media reports. I 93 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.399 had a source hit me up that said the round shot him right in the 94 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:05.920 mouth. And so you guys know this. The brain is the CPU, 95 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.560 right, and you want a headshot and that sort of attack right to immediately 96 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:16.519 drop the threat. Law enforcement generally trains right the high target era in here. 97 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.839 But those sniper shots want to do that triangle right the imaginary line here 98 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.560 from your forehead down to your mouth. I know that's pretty gruesome, but 99 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.000 that's just the truth of the matter. So you know, they eliminated the 100 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.680 shooter pretty quickly that the shift. Those around the President Trump that are signed 101 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:40.319 to the Trump Protective Detail, they responded exactly as trained. If you watch 102 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.480 the video, within a second or two of the first shot, they're jumping 103 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:47.920 on stage, they're covering a I think we might have maybe talked about this 104 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:54.560 a little d on Saturday, but it's draped in sort of a flag decorative 105 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:59.439 material around the stage. The Secret Service calls that a DAIS, but that's 106 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:07.120 bliss stick steel around and it's specifically designed for the protected and duck behind and 107 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.199 the podium or the DAIS as a Service called is actually ballistic as well. 108 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:15.120 And you can actually see one of the agents tries to move it out of 109 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.120 the way and it doesn't really He tries to kind of like kick it and 110 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.000 it doesn't really move. You can see that in the video because it's really 111 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:28.920 heavy. But Bill, I got a question pretty quickly, and sorry to 112 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.000 ramble on my wife tells me I take you move to answer questions? No, 113 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:35.240 absolutely, no, we trust me. We like that kind of rambling. 114 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.399 All right, and I'll tell my wife that she was wrong. Most 115 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:45.360 wives are most of the time. Wait wait, what was that? Yeah? 116 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.039 So the the the Countess snipe at piece, I would imagine, is 117 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.840 I mean incredibly challenging. I'd be interesting, you know what you can tell 118 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:58.600 us about in this picticular incidence. Arguably the problem was relatively easy, right 119 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.480 it was an a K So is a I mean, I don't mean relatively 120 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.919 easy. I don't, but I meant it could have been much more difficult 121 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:11.240 if the guy was you know, was trained, had a sniper weapon, 122 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.519 and that increases the potential radius of places that that he can you know, 123 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:18.919 he can locate. How do you how does the secret Service when you guys 124 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.000 are so in a sense dependent on local law enforcement, you know, with 125 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.120 those outer court ons, how do you how do how do you crack that 126 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:33.159 problem? I mean location of a of a of a snipe or a serious 127 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.360 shooter further out to rank, further range. Yeah, a lot to unpack 128 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.960 their andy. So the first thing is the advance work. Okay, So 129 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.200 see us the counter snipers there are part of the Secret Service Advanced Team. 130 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:52.000 Every the Secret Services, the most elite protective agency in the entire world. 131 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.080 Every single agency around the world that provides protection to the world's elected leaders models 132 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:01.919 themselves on the Secret Service protective mind model and Secret Service protective methodology. So 133 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.799 the Secret Service has developed this advance. You know, it's been around since 134 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.799 the Secret Service. You know, in the forties and fifties, they started 135 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.720 sending agents out well ahead, well ahead of the protectee or the president and 136 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.519 vice president. So a lot of what you're talking about, how do we 137 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.759 mitigate these long range threats are handled. During the advance you have the CS 138 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:30.159 guys going out and looking at getting up and very high vantage points. You 139 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.720 know, I was a part of many many Advanced Teams and CS was sort 140 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.080 of a sister unit to CAT. We worked hand in hand with them and 141 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:41.200 their their call sign is Hercules is the call sign for the CS units. 142 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.240 And a lot of times they would get up on a very high elevated position. 143 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:50.000 They would have to get on the jerry lift. Sometimes it would climb 144 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.440 up. They would get a fire truck. We'd ask the local fire department 145 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.039 to lift them up and they would get way high up so they could actually 146 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:03.679 see down off into the distance and see exactly what you're talking about hiding points, 147 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.720 because obviously they're thinking and I'm not a sniper, obviously I was on 148 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.320 CAP, but I can kind of understand some of the lingo here. But 149 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.799 it's almost when the CS guys are doing the advance are kind of thinking like, 150 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.679 okay, sniper versus sniper. Right, if I were a sniper, 151 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.679 where would I go hide? And so if they see places, then they 152 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:28.480 try to block that line of sight with a school bus, maybe garbage truck. 153 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.000 Sometimes you'll see those at events. So that's how the Secret Service, 154 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:37.720 in particular the CS guys try to mitigate that threat is during the advance work 155 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.039 and just spend hours up at that elevated position with binoculars looking around, thinking, 156 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.120 Hey, if I were a sniper, where would I attack from. 157 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:54.399 So that's really how they mitigate that threat. And you know, when the 158 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:58.960 shuck is taken, how did they, for instance, like yesterday, how 159 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:05.480 did they locate him so quickly? Well, I think because known shooting positions. 160 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.919 It's likely shooting positions. And it's a great question, Andy, and 161 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.799 it's a question I was actually speaking with a reporter just before I came on 162 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.360 with you guys. And I think for me, that is a very important 163 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.720 question that I would be asking. And let me be long winded here and 164 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.919 I'll circle back, all right, every single Secret Service event I've ever been 165 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.679 on, and I was part of hundreds, if not thousands of these types 166 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.720 of events during my career, there was always an issue during the event, 167 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.159 right, someone would report a suspicious person. Hey, I think this guy 168 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.320 has a gun. There's an unattended package over here that looks like a bomb. 169 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.960 Every single event I was at there was always something coming over the radio 170 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:56.240 from the command post. So, and I can tell you a couple of 171 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.960 times. Did I tell the Martha's Vineyard story the paintballers? Not the other 172 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.120 day? Oh okay, I thought it so, So to give you an 173 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.799 example of the kind of things that happened during these events. So in two 174 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:11.559 thousand and eight or two thousand and nine, Obama was a very young president. 175 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.559 He goes to Martha's Vineyard for the summer. I was on the cat 176 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.240 team. We had four cat teams for that trip, you know, for 177 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.639 four separate shifts. So the day Obama arrives, I'm assigned the CAT team. 178 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.960 I was on Charlie squad. We were assigned to cover his arrival at 179 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:37.320 the airport on Martha's Vineyard. So we're taking our positions waiting Air Force One's 180 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.639 on approach. They're probably about minute and a half to wheels down, and 181 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.679 one of the CS guys comes over the radio and says, hey, I've 182 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:52.039 got a group of armed men wearing camouflage with painted faces with rifles running into 183 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.840 the woodline towards there where Air Force one is gonna be wheels down. All 184 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.840 right, so holy shit, man, what are we going to do? 185 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.919 So the standard procedure that the service has developed over time is they have a 186 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.879 unit called CS Response, which is going to be an agent with a uniformed 187 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.679 police officer or multiple police officers will then respond to what they saw. They're 188 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.320 not going to immediately just start firing. We're not going to cause an incident 189 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.120 by you know, telling the plane, hey, you can't land, do 190 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.879 a touch and go. You know, the media is there lined up with 191 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.399 cameras. So major incident here, right, and potentially embarrassing to the president. 192 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.919 And so in this case, the decision was made and this is all 193 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.759 happening within seconds, the decisions made Lead Air Force one land, will hold 194 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:45.240 Obama on the plane? Do we sort this out? The plane lands, 195 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.120 the Massachusetts State Troopers go over there, and it turned out it was a 196 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:54.240 group of weekend paintballers that had no idea that Obama was landing there, right. 197 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.519 All the guns were paintball guns, just a bunch of soccer dads right 198 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.879 trying to do their LARPing for the weekend. And so I started being along 199 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.240 with didn't answered the question, ay, but you know, those kind of 200 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.600 things happened during these events, and so you know, I'm asking the same 201 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.679 question. I think it broke late yesterday that a police officer actually climbed up 202 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.240 a ladder to confront the gunman. And so I don't know if the CS 203 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.759 guys were the ones that hey said, hey, local police, you need 204 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.600 to go investigate there's a guy on a roof, or if there's video. 205 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.559 Now, unfortunately I hate to say where I got the source, but there's 206 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:41.000 video on TMZ where they were actually someone captured the guy crawling up onto the 207 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.480 building. So I don't know if someone grabbed a tension of local police and 208 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.600 said, hey, what's this guy up to? Or if the CS guys 209 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.720 said, hey, can somebody go check him out? What's he up to? 210 00:15:54.120 --> 00:16:00.759 And so either way the Secret Service system irked. It just was a 211 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:07.039 few seconds too late. Yeah, yeah, I mean it it, thank 212 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.080 god, is something that was an impressively fast response, was you know, 213 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.600 was was my point? Really that too, And having been on the receiving 214 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.159 end of snipers before, I know how difficult it is, especially in an 215 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:26.000 urban environment, especially with crowds, to locate point of shot. So that 216 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.879 was, you know, that was remarkable. So my educated guests here, 217 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:36.519 Andy, my professional educated guess is it came on the radio that we have 218 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.960 a suspicious guy up here. So cus's attention was already drawn over there. 219 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.480 They were probably looking at this guy. The CS guys have very sophisticated binoculars, 220 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.559 and they looked, holy shit, that guy's got a gun. Oh 221 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.639 my god, he's firing. They were turned fire and killed him. I 222 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.759 mean, I just broke that down, you know, into the five seconds 223 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.440 there that you know, you can hear the audio, So it literally happened 224 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.400 some version of that is what my educated professional guess is. So presumably after 225 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.559 this, the Secret Service does a and kind of an off direction review and 226 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.759 for me to know if they called it that or not, what sort of 227 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.799 things would they would you be looking at in this particular incident, if you 228 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:22.559 you know, if you were to so you know, the FBI is in 229 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.359 charge of the criminal investigation. Okay, we had an assault on a former 230 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.720 president, so that's a criminal that's against the federal criminal Code. So there's 231 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.279 going to be the f back's handling the criminal investigation. Now what went wrong 232 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.559 will be handled by the Secret Service. I'm sure there's going to be. 233 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:41.440 I think Biden has called now for a congressional investigation. So the things that 234 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:48.160 I would be looking at, you know, would be, hey, what 235 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.720 footprint, what social media footprint did this guy have? Were there any indications 236 00:17:52.720 --> 00:18:00.160 by anyone, was any of suspicious behavior reported? Was he posting on anything 237 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:06.480 that was problematic or worrisome? Was this an unusual interest? You know, 238 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:12.240 typically the Secret Service teaches sort of in threat management or threat assessing. You 239 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.799 know, typically people just don't snap. They don't just wake up one day 240 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.400 and say I'm gonna be an evil madman. That happens over time, right, 241 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.720 and a lot of times, Jason, I think in the intel community 242 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.160 call it like leakage, or whatever. Right, these people are gonna leak 243 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:32.400 out behaviors that are going to draw attention. So that's the first thing, 244 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.480 is the secret you know, were there any indications of what this guy's motives 245 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.839 were beforehand? So that would be the first thing. And then the second 246 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:44.759 thing is during the advance work, did anybody recognize, Hey, those buildings 247 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.680 need to be covered. So said so and like NBC just reported that, 248 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:55.799 like I saw that was security risk. Yeah, and it was supposedly covered 249 00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:02.119 by local law enforcement. But you know, I've had the same conversation with 250 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:06.880 multimedia outlets. You know, there's a law enforcement recruiting crisis in the in 251 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:08.960 the United States, and the Secret Service is not immune from that, okay, 252 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:17.200 and they're way short staff for what they need to be and we're short 253 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.279 staff when I was there, And you know, listen, it's not like 254 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:23.680 you see on the movies. Okay, Everybody walking into that event is not 255 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:29.880 like facial recognition software that's run through a national database and the Secret Service pulls 256 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.279 up their DNA, you know, on some database, and you know, 257 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:37.599 there's not hundreds of CS teams out there that are coordinating drones flying overhead that 258 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.720 have you know, missiles. It doesn't work like that. And so the 259 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:48.480 Republican Convention starts today. You know, there's probably thirty CS teams at that 260 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:56.000 in Milwaukee covering that event. Biden was supposed to speak today at the LBJ 261 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.519 Library. I believe in Austin, Texas that's been canceled. There was probably 262 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.839 four CS teams at that. So what I'm explaining to you guys is that 263 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:10.319 the Secret Service, you know, supplies exceeding demand here or demands exceeding supply, 264 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.480 I should say. So there's limited resources, so the Secret Service has 265 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:18.000 to pick and choose. Hey, we only have this amount of we only 266 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.720 have a finite number of CS teams, and this is all we can devote 267 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.400 to this Trump event. So one of the things I would be looking at, 268 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.920 Andy, is who made that decision that two CS teams was enough for 269 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.799 that event. But I mean, let me ask you something, Bill, 270 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.319 I mean, I know, obviously in hindsight, I mean it's like make 271 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:41.200 it's obvious, but why like, if that roof is a security issue, 272 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.279 why not plant you know, a couple state troopers or local law enforcement guys 273 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.880 in the parking lot and a couple on the roof, and like just make 274 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.559 sure nobody fucks about. Yeah, and great question, and it sounds like, 275 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:59.720 if the reporting is true that that was probably are requested. But here's 276 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.920 the thing. When you work with local police agencies, like I said, 277 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:08.000 I was on dozens and dozens of advanced teams, those local police agencies are 278 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.839 also going through a recruiting crisis, right, and they have limited resources. 279 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:18.599 And perfect world, those law enforcement agencies would give you five hundred cops to 280 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.400 go do whatever. But guess what, they still have to answer nine one 281 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.039 one calls. They still have to respond, they still have to patrol their 282 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.279 assigned areas. So they have limited resources too. So there might have been 283 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:33.519 one or two officers for that entire complex. So you know, when you 284 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.480 work with an agency like the NYPD, I only have awesome things to say 285 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.559 about the NYPD. I had great experiences up there. I think I joked 286 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.839 with you guys on one of your shows, d about you get a lot 287 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.759 of attitude from the NYPD when you need something that's like, hey, all 288 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.640 right, we'll get to you, hey whatever. But man, if you 289 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.920 say, hey, I need a few cops, you know, you walk 290 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.279 into a room and there's five hundred there, and you know, some precinct 291 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.119 commanders like, hey, here, here's the guys you requested. Where do 292 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.480 you want them? But not every agency has those type of resources. It's 293 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:08.279 going to ask that too. If in situations like this, do they just 294 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:14.559 say all hands on deck local law enforcement or are they No? No, 295 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.599 it's all hands on deck for these agencies. And the smaller the agency, 296 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.119 the bigger the sort of requirement that is. So you know, I haven't 297 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.359 looked at this local agency in Pennsylvania. Imagine you know, Pennsylvania is divided 298 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.440 into these townships, so I imagine it's probably you could probably look that up 299 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.200 right now to see what the population of that town is and what the you 300 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.039 know, the local agency probably has to ask for county resources the Pennsylvania State 301 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:45.880 Police. So it's limited resources on the local side too. Guys. Yeah, 302 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.039 it's a town of thirteen thousand. Yeah, so you know, if 303 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.319 they have their own police department, I would imagine it's ten ten officers or 304 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.799 less, you know, so they're probably going to be asking for the county 305 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.359 police department and then Pennsylvania State Police support. But you know the other thing 306 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:06.680 too is, you know, each aspect of Trump's movements require more and more 307 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.640 local resources. You have to have guys in the motorcade securing the motorcade route, 308 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.599 you have to have you know, police escorts, you have to have 309 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.400 local police officers at the airport for the arrival and departure. So it's really 310 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.799 a drain on resources. And so a lot of times, you know, 311 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.039 when you have a natural disaster, that's why the president will usually say, 312 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.720 Hey, I don't want to go to that natural disaster right away, because 313 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.519 my visit will draw so many resources from the local agencies that need to sort 314 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:40.880 of provide police protection to you know, the citizenry. It's like when the 315 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.319 president travels, it's how many c seventeens does it take to Yeah, yeah, 316 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.839 to support him. You know when I when I went to Mumbai, 317 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.039 India, there were like eleven seventeens that came to Mumbai. Wow. Yeah, 318 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.400 it's it's not It's not as though he can you know, just go 319 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:02.640 down range to visit the troops and not have any impact of it. Then 320 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.160 on the marrilee Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think some of the 321 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.400 war zone trips that the different presidents took where you know, Obama was smuggled 322 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.839 out of the White House one time, so was President Bush. And even 323 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.839 then, you know, when he gets on Air Force one is trying to 324 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.720 take a classified trip, Air Force one releases this like well known signature, 325 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:23.480 right both visually, and then I think they have to acknowledge over the radio 326 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.519 to the different towers around the world what they are, plus that they had. 327 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.519 I'm trying to think of the term like combat air patrol is not the 328 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.559 right term you guys might know, but like the there's gonna be fighter a 329 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.279 fighter escort right around Air Force one. So those also, you know, 330 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.920 all these towers around the world are going to be like, hey, is 331 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.680 that Air Force one? Right? Like why does this plane have you know, 332 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:53.240 ten f eighteens you know flying with it? But anyway, yeah, 333 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.640 it's a big footprint wherever the president travels. What I mean typically how big 334 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:06.000 is the h Secret Service detail when he goes overseas? You know, relative 335 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.880 question, andy, because you're gonna have agents assigned to the individual detail. 336 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.519 So if it's the President's Detail PPD, you're gonna have agents that are on 337 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.240 a different shift depending on how long he's gonna be there, you might have 338 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.559 three shifts you know, that might be close to fifty agents. But you're 339 00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.799 also going to have the post standards, which are sort of the junior agents 340 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.960 that go to secure the site, the individual sites where the president's going to 341 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:33.119 go. So for an overseas visit like India, I mean there's probably close 342 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.759 to five hundred seven hundred agents involved in that one visit, like a battalion 343 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.440 of agents. Yeah. Yeah, And I think I told a story on 344 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:49.559 one of the appearances d where you know, somebody put the wrong gas into 345 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:56.480 the President's limo. Yeah. And so the president travels with these like mechanics 346 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.200 from General Motors, and these are like the world's most efficient, productive, 347 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:06.279 knowledgeable GM mechanics that had to tear this engine apart overnight and put it back 348 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:10.359 together in an airport hangar. So you know, I mean there's those kind 349 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:15.400 of people that travel with the president as well. It's a massive, massive 350 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:22.000 entourage. Yeah. So bill On, you know I mentioned that when you 351 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.039 when you went through training, I mean you focused on I mean, I 352 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.480 imagine that the eighty one it was nineteen eighty one, right, the Reagan 353 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:37.640 tempted assassination. I imagine that that becomes you know, the center point of 354 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.359 more than one class, right, you know, I mean it's focusing on 355 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:48.920 using examples from that. Who do you see that happening again here? I 356 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.039 mean, is this going to become an iconic event that's taught? And yeah, 357 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.279 it doesn't really depend what comes out. A lot's going to depend on 358 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:03.400 what comes out. But sort of I don't want to say my running joke, 359 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.279 but I have this sort of discussion I have with people where I say, 360 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.799 hey, when I joined the Service in two thousand and two, uh, 361 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.319 training was designed around the agent training was designed around and I'm going to 362 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.079 go way back here. Everyone was worried about Carlos the Jackal, who was 363 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.119 an actual terrorist that was running around the world that no one could find. 364 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.000 And so it was like all of the Secret Service protective models were sort of 365 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:33.759 set up for Carlos to jackle this loan terrorist gunman out there seventies what'd you 366 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.079 say, seventies? So just D. It was before D was warned. 367 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:38.240 Oh yeah, okay, yeah, so before you were born, D, 368 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:47.160 there was this guy running around the world car that's fairly interesting. So kind 369 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.920 of the lone wolf. Yeah, loan with no local connections, no social 370 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.400 media, right, all of that. Yeah, And I mean I'm going 371 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.160 way back, like you know, some of the terrorist attacks that were studied 372 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.039 were like the Red faction in the East Germany, Like didn't they kidnap the 373 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.519 president of BMW or something, Hans Martin Schleyer, Yeah, yeah it was, 374 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.920 uh yeah BMW Mercedes. Yeah. So so like these these were what 375 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.920 was studied. But as I was coming on in two thousand and two, 376 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.440 this was quickly changing, right because we had the I was there six months 377 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:25.079 after nine to eleven, so we had this sort of mentality change of hey, 378 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:26.920 we only not have to worry about this loan gunman, but we also 379 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.279 have to worry about an al Qaeda armed organized attack by terrorist groups. So 380 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:38.960 it slowly became you know, that threat sort of morphed into being prepared for 381 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.720 both, right, a loan gunman alone assassin on a rope line somewhere as 382 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:49.640 the president is shaking hands, but also this armed organized assault by a group 383 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:56.319 of individual terrorists, so which you know was Alcada then became ISIS and uh, 384 00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:59.519 you know something that's not really talked about. It's been mentioned in a 385 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.480 few books, but I was there when this happened. But in Denver, 386 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.960 there were a group of white supremacists in two thousand and eight, when Obama 387 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.200 was getting the Democratic nomination in Denver sort of the coronation, if you will, 388 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.920 where he officially takes the nomination. Just a day or two before that, 389 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:21.920 a group of white supremacists aligned with the Hells Angels. They tried to 390 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:27.559 ram through a police checkpoint one night that were around I think it's in Vesco 391 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.920 Field now, I think back then it might have been Course Field at Miles 392 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.079 I forget what the name used to be, but they tried to ram through 393 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.440 a police checkpoint to assault. The event led the police on a high speed 394 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.920 chase, and then those guys were subsetquently arrested. So I bring that story 395 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.079 up to say that, you know, also homegrown terrorism now has to be 396 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.359 also recognized as a threat because the Secret Service. Right, I mean, 397 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:56.559 we're this current political climate, right, wrong or indifferent. There are people 398 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:03.480 out there that hate literally hate both candidates and will actually just because of the 399 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.319 environment, they'll actually you know, take actions sort of that you call it 400 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.799 the pathway to violence, right, They're going to ascend that pathway to violence 401 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:19.200 just because of their political ideology. Right. Yeah, So what happens now, 402 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.720 I mean like being gonna do a little bit of speculation, like within 403 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.599 the Secret Service. I mean, I know everyone's doing the blame game, 404 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.680 like you kind of got some reports like the FBI is like saying the Secret 405 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:32.880 Service fucked up, and the Secret Service is saying, like, you know, 406 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.799 local law enforcement fucked up, which it kind of seems like it did. 407 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.480 You know, Like what happens now in terms of like, for lack 408 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.279 of a better term, hedge rolling. Yeah, Well, the first thing 409 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.759 is there's probably a lot of people yesterday night or this morning, a lot 410 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:55.240 of agents were probably like God damn it, because you know, there's probably 411 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.359 hundreds of agents all over the country. They got a phone caller email that 412 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.119 says, hey, pack your shit, you're you're flying out somewhere because I 413 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.880 saw the director this morning has said that they're going to bolster protection at the 414 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.920 RNC. Trump's going to get you know, a more enhanced protection profile. 415 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:17.640 So the first thing that's going to happen, you know, is talk about 416 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.480 all hands on deck. You know, there's probably nobody, no agents in 417 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:23.880 any of these field offices around the country because a lot of people probably got 418 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:29.680 some phone calls or text messages or emails that to get on a plane in 419 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.240 a few hours. And you know one thing that's something talked about either DA 420 00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:36.200 is when it's when it's all said and done. And I meant to mention 421 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:40.079 this earlier. Andy. You know, the CS guys, they don't operate 422 00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:44.759 on a red light green light. They operate under standard police US police use 423 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.599 of force standards. The standard for that is a very famous case called Granby 424 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:55.759 Connor, which outlines the police responses to to perceive threats. So when it's 425 00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:00.759 all said and done, these agents are essentially caught, right, These CS 426 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.319 guys are copps. So they then special powers that allowed them to yeah, 427 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.920 right the roe as it left. Yeah, And so there there is a 428 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:14.640 criminal investigation right now into their actions. Did they use reasonable force? Did 429 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:20.000 they did they violate the Fourth Amendment and killing this person? And there's a 430 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.440 whole set of rules that go in with that. One of them is called 431 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.880 garrity. So these officers are afforded what's called garrity, which is a famous 432 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:30.160 court decision where you have to tell your agency. If your agency invokes your 433 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.720 garrity rights, you have to tell them everything you did. But what you 434 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.960 tell your agency can't be used against you in a court of law. They 435 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.319 have to do a separate criminal investigation, if that makes any sense. So 436 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.799 those guys that fired, they're they're subject to a criminal investigation. Now, 437 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:51.680 obviously they're going to be found that they used reasonable force. Right that guy 438 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:59.480 had fired upon the former president. But still and typically during police lethal force 439 00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:04.240 encounters, you know, officers badge and guns are confiscated and they're given legal 440 00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.599 counsel. So that's something that's not being talked about that when it's all said 441 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.319 and done, the guys that pulled the trigger up there are cops that took 442 00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:15.640 somebody else's life. Now, obviously, clearly I think that was a reasonable 443 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:21.640 use of force on they're going to be found that they used reasonable force in 444 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.559 accordance with the Fourth Amendment and various court decisions like Graham v. Connor. 445 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.920 But you know, that's still very uncomfortable. You know, I've known lots 446 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.119 of people that are involved in police shootings and they, you know, talk 447 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.839 about how uncomfortable that is. Even when you're in the right, you still 448 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.880 have to go through this criminal investigation. So that's one of the things Dave 449 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.799 so are uh Davis, says Dave on the screen. But one of the 450 00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.640 things, d you know, The first thing is all these agents probably were 451 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.759 got phone calls and emails. Hey you got to fly out. I don't 452 00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:54.799 care if it's your son's wedding. I don't care if it's for firstborn child 453 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:58.519 being born. You better get on a plane. And then the second thing 454 00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:02.119 is this criminal investigation about the police use of force. So again, who 455 00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.400 says you guys don't have breaking news. That's breaking news that nobody's talking about. 456 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.960 Is you know, these these officers that pull the trigger are going through 457 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.360 a criminal investigation, so and you know, and then the third thing, 458 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:21.559 it's there's going to be all these investigations about, hey, what happened, 459 00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:27.039 and they're going to have to figure out moving forward. Are there ways we 460 00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.280 can mitigate this threat? Are there ways that we can not let this happen 461 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.199 again? Because the Secret Service has a zero fail mission, right, like 462 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:39.599 this can't happen ever happen again. Yeah, So I would say zero fail 463 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:44.400 is a good way, really good way to describe it. You really intrigued 464 00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:50.320 me with the comment about the guarantee. Is it a guarantee law? But 465 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:54.800 it's but it seems if I'm right, it provides it provides a means for 466 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:02.199 law enforcement to really find out ground truth without without all the paraphernalia of an 467 00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:06.440 investigation. In other words, yeah, hey, hey, you know, 468 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.639 time out, tell us what happened, all right, this will not affect 469 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.000 you, but tell us the truth so that we can prevent this happening again 470 00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.679 or whatever. Yeah yeah, yeah, sense yeah yeah, And so right, 471 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:21.440 we have a right against self incrimination in this country, right, you 472 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.559 have Fifth Amendment protections, and you cannot compel me to provide you information that 473 00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:30.760 might incriminate me. But they had to carve out this niche in the law 474 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.039 in the in the seventies. In this Garrity Court decision I think was Garrity 475 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:38.320 versus New Jersey or it was a court case in New Jersey. Garrity was 476 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:42.559 the officer where his agency said either tell us, well we want to know, 477 00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:45.519 or you're fired, and he got fired and then he sued in this 478 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.920 court case, this famous court decision that all law enforcement officers talk about called 479 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.679 your Guarrity rights, and it's exactly right, Andy. So there's like a 480 00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:58.159 public safety exception there. So your agency wants to know, hey, did 481 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.519 you use reasonable force? Uh, you know, when you killed this person, 482 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.719 when you shot them, when you tasered them, and you have to 483 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.159 tell them what happened. But anything you tell them cannot be used against you 484 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.800 later in a criminal case, there has to be a separate criminal investigation, 485 00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.280 and they talk. There's actually they talk about a wall, all right. 486 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:23.159 So those two concurrent investigations, the investigators cannot talk to each other, all 487 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.280 right, it's against the law. They can't speak with each other. So 488 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:32.280 but in the same unit, within the same unit. Yeah, so that's 489 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:37.000 really that's right. There's a firewall there. So the CS officers that pulled 490 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:42.519 the trigger, you know what, they tell the Secret Service. The Secret 491 00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.880 Service then can't turn around and go to the FBI and say, hey, 492 00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:50.800 you know, guess what Andy Milburn told us. He told us X Y 493 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.119 Z. It can't happen. There has to be a wall there. So 494 00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:00.000 I imagine in the last twenty four hours there have been some very uncomfortable discs 495 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:04.199 cushions between the FBI and the Secret Service. You know, the FBI probably 496 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.000 is demanding answers. But in that particular case involving the agents that pulled the 497 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:15.480 trigger, they have rights. And again they clearly followed their training right, 498 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:17.960 clearly followed the law. They had every right to return force. But there 499 00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:24.519 is a procedure in this country we have to follow. That's that that shows 500 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:29.679 an unusually high amount for any bureaucracy, that shows an unusually high amount of 501 00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.960 common sense that the guarantee. I know, I mean, I get it. 502 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:37.519 It didn't emerge as a as a safety mechanism imposed from above. It 503 00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.000 was you know, it was a guy challenging based on his own rights. 504 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:45.800 But nevertheless, it's a it's a tremendous safety mechanism. You know. Let's 505 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:51.639 because investigations drag on forever and departments themselves kind of back into the hatches, 506 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:54.760 don't they. Yeah. But I think a key part of this is it 507 00:37:54.800 --> 00:38:01.360 allows that agency to be open with the media in this sense of not hey 508 00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:05.880 he did this. You know, it's just hey, it's up for investigation, 509 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:09.000 and there's no question of you know, are you wrongfully standing by him 510 00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:14.239 or rightfully standing by him? You know, you've gone there's there's a procedure 511 00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.000 that that puts you I've been described it well, but I think it's a 512 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:21.320 it's a it's a great system. I'd like to see that in the military, 513 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:23.280 you know, Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, wasn't there a 514 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:29.159 lot of debate recently in the military about taking the u CMJA away from like 515 00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:34.000 the person's commander or the accused commander, or yeah, that's the sexual assault. 516 00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:38.960 That's not you know, that's a because that was a case of Yeah, 517 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:45.119 the military. Military officers have lost their right to investigate sexual assault. 518 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:47.000 You know, initially you do a what we call a p I, a 519 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.920 preliminary investigation as commanding officer, and you no longer can do that, supposedly 520 00:38:52.960 --> 00:39:00.559 because so many officers have somehow fucked that up or painted their influence. But 521 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.719 I but I'm talking about investigations into deaths, you know, accidental deaths, 522 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.760 things like that, negligent discharges, things that go wrong in training or operations 523 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.679 that result in blue on blue casualties, all of these things. The Pat 524 00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.840 Tillman case is a great example, right, you know, I mean the 525 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.519 guys, you know, I don't want to go into details in that case, 526 00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:24.000 but guys knew basically what had happened or suspected what had happened. But 527 00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:29.000 it you know, in that whole sorry mess. You know, the Army 528 00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:34.760 was embarrassed, the Ranger Regiment was embarrassed, and it caused unnecessarily suffering for 529 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.119 his family. But if they had something like guaranty, you know, because 530 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.000 the guys want to tell the truth when it's something like that, you know, 531 00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:47.119 there's a period they want to and you know, but of course they 532 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:51.679 don't want to you know. Yeah, away again we have we have fits 533 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.599 themment protections in this country. You can't be forced to testify against yourself. 534 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:00.719 So yeah, and that's like I said, those off ers that pulled the 535 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.960 trigger. You know, I've probably already spoken with legal counsel. They're probably 536 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.320 are already represented. A lot of federal agents and officers are represented by FLIOA, 537 00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:15.000 which is called the Federal Lawenforcement Officers Association, which will provide legal counsel 538 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:17.880 and major uses of force. So I'm sure they've spoken with their legal counsel 539 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.159 and are represented by a lawyer. Bill, let me ask you, are 540 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.079 they out of the game now while this investigation goes on. I mean, 541 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:30.599 I'm sure the investigation won't take like forever, but no, it's probably gonna 542 00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:34.320 take forever. But yeah, really they are. Yeah, I mean that 543 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.320 every law enforcement agency in the country, if you're sworn and you carry a 544 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.400 badging a gun which the uniform division officers are that are in these guys that 545 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.559 are part of the CS team there that pulled the trigger. Yeah, they're 546 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:52.840 going to be relieved of their police powers. They're police temporarily relieved. And 547 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.960 again clearly they did nothing wrong. They followed their training in the law. 548 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:01.679 But there's still as a procedure in this country when you take someone's life and 549 00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:06.079 they're going to be relieved of their police powers pending an investigation. I mean, 550 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:10.159 that's pretty standard protocol throughout the country. Now, I'll tell you I 551 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:15.519 went to a training class once, probably before you were born, d in 552 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.119 like two thousand, two thousand and one. Yeah, and the guy was 553 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.719 the guy teaching the class was this old retired Washington DC homicide detective. And 554 00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:29.960 the guy had retired in like nineteen ninety, but he was now teaching, 555 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:31.920 so he'd been retired, you know, fifteen years when he was teaching this 556 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:37.880 class. And he said his first day on the job as a DC police 557 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.679 officer was in the early seventies. And his training officer, he gets in 558 00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:45.840 the car and his training officer some old haggard you know, Vietnam vett who's 559 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.800 chained smoking, and he says, hey, kid, pull up tinto this 560 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.199 bodega and he gives a kid a couple bucks and says, go in and 561 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:59.039 get me some smokes. Well, this brand new officer from DC Police, 562 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:04.000 he walks into this boat dega and it's being robbed. He walks into a 563 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.559 robbery in progress, pulls out his gun, challenges him, kills the two 564 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:14.039 robbers right, kills the two robbers, and you know, their sergeants called 565 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.840 to the scene, and you know, within about thirty minutes they pat him 566 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:20.239 on the back and they're like, hey, great job kid, let's get 567 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.559 back out there. And they go back in the car and start patrolling. 568 00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.840 Wow, you know, we don't do we don't do that anymore in this 569 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:31.159 country, right, you know, you get the coffee. I don't know, 570 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:35.559 I never added it, but yeah, I mean that's how it used 571 00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:37.079 to be. You know, back in the day, it was like, 572 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:39.480 hey, great kid, like dirty Harry. You know, you're just going 573 00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:45.079 out exactly like that. And you know, let's also not forget, you 574 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:50.320 know again breaking news here. Uh, you know, let's not forget. 575 00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:53.639 It's easy to thump our chest right and say, oh, these guys took 576 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.599 out a threat, but when you take somebody's life, that can have a 577 00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.039 traumatic effect. That's a signal difficant life event for you. Right, you 578 00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:05.960 took somebody's life, no matter how reasonable it was, no matter how legal, 579 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.559 no matter if you did your job. These guys might have some trauma 580 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.320 with that, you know, So they are probably gonna need counseling. A 581 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:16.760 lot of agencies have mandatory psychological counseling after you're involved in a traumatic event. 582 00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.920 As a first responder. I've been involved in lots of traumatic events from you 583 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.559 know, the death of a child. I was on a call a couple 584 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:30.480 of years ago where a four year old had her head crushed run over by 585 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.599 a car. And you know, my partner at the time scooped up this 586 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.559 little girl and ran her to an ambulance, and he was covered in blood 587 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:42.280 and brain matter of a you know, a little girl. So I don't 588 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.440 care how tough you are, that's gonna have an effect. And you know, 589 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.119 he came to me and and to our sergeant and said, hey, 590 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.079 I need to go home and change my clothes. And I don't think I'm 591 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:54.519 coming back the rest of this shift. Right, that has an effect on 592 00:43:54.559 --> 00:44:00.199 you. And I mean, I'm sure, Jason Andy Military guess I'm sure 593 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:05.440 you have some perspective on that where you know, especially the first time you 594 00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:08.000 you do take a life, right, it can be traumatic. I think 595 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:13.280 probably in the United States makes it even worse. I know people are going 596 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.000 to criticize me for that, but what I what I mean by that is 597 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:20.679 when we deploy, we're in a context, we switch. You know. 598 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.039 It's not that everything becomes a target, of course, not counterinsurgency. But 599 00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:28.599 the point is that you're you know, your your alert stat chair, everything 600 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:34.360 goes up and you are expecting threat and you have already you've already kind of 601 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.519 you should have hardened yourself to taking casualties and taking life, you know. 602 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.559 I mean that is part of the preparation, the bulletproofed mind. If you're 603 00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.679 a good commander, you prepare your troops for that. But it's but I 604 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.880 think it's so much harder. Probably I had never been a cop, but 605 00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.480 I imagine it's so much harder as a cop for a number of reasons. 606 00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:01.440 I you know, operating in in a day to day the environment and then 607 00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:07.119 suddenly suddenly out of the blue, being confronted with that kind of tragedy. 608 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.840 I think that is I think that is probably more overwhelming, I would imagine. 609 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:13.960 Yeah, yeah, I mean I can tell you from personal experience. 610 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:19.360 You know, my daughter's nine. When she was just a few months old, 611 00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:24.639 I was called to the scene of a death of a child and the 612 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:30.039 child, unfortunately had a terminal illness. The child was about four years old, 613 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.760 had a terminal illness, and they were able to get a little bit 614 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.320 of a heartbeat race the child. I followed the ambulance to the emergency room, 615 00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:43.960 and you know, I go into the emergency room and I have a 616 00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.320 job to do, right, I have to figure out was this child the 617 00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:52.239 victim of abuse? How did this happen? And so I'm speaking with the 618 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:57.400 father outside the exam room and asking him, Hey, how did this happen? 619 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.159 And the dad says, listen, we have been to you know, 620 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.559 every elite hospital in the country to try to find a cure my son suffered 621 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.639 from X y Z. As I'm interviewing him, the mom is in the 622 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:14.280 room in the exam room. We could hear her wails and telling the son, 623 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:17.320 Hey, it's okay to let go. We love you so much. 624 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:22.719 You fought so hard. I'm listening to that right as I'm interviewing the dad 625 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.320 and I tried to be right. I fancy myself a tough guy. You 626 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.199 know, you want to go work out. You know how far, how 627 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.239 fast we run in, you know how much we lift in. I fancy 628 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:37.719 myself a tough guy. That crushed me. Man. I did my job 629 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:39.519 right. It found out that the child was not a victim of abuse, 630 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:44.880 that was a terminal illness. And left that call, and I went in 631 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:49.440 a parking lot and cried my eyes out right, called my wife, you 632 00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.400 know, hey, can you go kiss our daughter for us? And cried 633 00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:57.440 my eyes out and guess what. Five minutes later, I get another call 634 00:46:57.480 --> 00:46:59.920 and I have to go handle that. So you're exactly right, Andy, 635 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.920 It's a lot different than being in combat in the military, where you you 636 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:06.760 know, you can go to your mission and then you go back to your 637 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:10.559 base and maybe you play PlayStation or watch movies, you know, in law 638 00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:15.159 enforcement you got to go home, and it's just it's just a different dynamic. 639 00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:25.760 Yeah, wow, Andy, Well you know that's that's an overwhelming moment 640 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:30.119 too. I think to to to end on because we did promise Bill that 641 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:35.719 we would get him out of there in half an hour and lie to him 642 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.960 as we have done. But but who's going to stop him? Man? 643 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.400 I mean that was that was not just fascinating, but really impactful and usually 644 00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:45.800 don't use that time, I hate it, but it really was. Thank 645 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:51.519 you, Thank you Bill ye absolute yeah, and the rest of you for 646 00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:55.519 being here. Thanks Andy so much, really appreciate you. Are there any 647 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.760 questions do? I know sometimes people post questions, Yeah, this isn't live 648 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.880 so yeah, so I is going to go out today later today. Hey. 649 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.920 The only question we have been is uh the we'd like to bring you 650 00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:13.519 on again, you know as this uh, as as this develops. That's 651 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.960 not really a question. That was an instruction. Yeah, so I got 652 00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:21.679 colonel, colonel and Millburn's back. Yeah, give you give your wife a 653 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.320 heads up. I mean that was that was terrific, not not just about 654 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.360 this particular event, but I learned a time. So yeah. Yeah, 655 00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:30.840 so listen as we this thing progresses, you know, they'll probably be newsbreaking 656 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:35.280 today, tomorrow, the next day. Yeah. De He's got my number, 657 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.960 text or all anytime. Although you know, I'm happy to be a 658 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.960 resource. I'm a big fan. Every year I saw I swear I'm going 659 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.760 to make the damn Christmas party, and I just have by this year. 660 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.039 Yeah, yeah, we we all need to make a commitment to do it 661 00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:52.960 this. I'm having a separate, separate bond party. I will be there. 662 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:59.280 Ye eyes On might have its own social media, got it, I 663 00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:01.599 got it. The real question is why is Jack in Paris with the Frenchies. 664 00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:05.639 He was actually in Ireland and I think he went to Paris for like 665 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:08.199 a stopover or maybe for a few days with his daughter. Okay, he's 666 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:12.360 back now, Okay, all right, Well, yeah, you guys use 667 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.440 me as a resource call text anytime. Thanks, Hey, best of luck, 668 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:21.199 guys, hie everyone, guys, don't forget a couple of things, 669 00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.880 little housekeeping, Andy Milburn buill do you have anything to plug? All right? 670 00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:30.000 Uh yeah, I mean you know you guys. You know I'm a 671 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.000 senior consultant with Safe and Security Group. We do a lot of security and 672 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.840 so and I know some of your audience are probably not in the market for 673 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:42.559 security company, but we do a lot of Fortune five hundred companies, physical 674 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.400 security, executive protection, a lot of threat assessment. Like I talked about, 675 00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:51.280 where we're really going into someone's background, whether a current employee, former 676 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.440 employee, I rate customer. You'd be surprised I'm a fortune five hundred companies 677 00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:58.840 out there, the people that they're hiring these days. And uh so, 678 00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:01.559 yeah, I'm a senior consult we Safe Have and Security. We've recently done 679 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:07.440 some pretty high profile executive protection gigs with some different individual I don't want to 680 00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.199 give their names, but sure, but yeah, that's where I'm at now, 681 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:14.519 Safe and Security Group. Great. All right, so Bill suit me 682 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:15.920 that link and the link will be in description in the show notes. You 683 00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.880 guys can check it out there. Andy Milburn, of course, his book 684 00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:22.159 is great. Check out his previous episode that we just did with the Teamhouse 685 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:27.599 on Friday. Crazy really good, really good. Uh, what's been going 686 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.880 on in the last two years? And unbelievable Libya's story where Andy did not 687 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:37.760 follow the rules but it worked out well. Yeah, and Patreon dot com 688 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:42.400 slash the Teamhouse. Please help support the show. YouTube is destroying us. 689 00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.840 I'm not lying, I swear to God. Patreon dot com Slash the Teamhouse. 690 00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:49.119 Thanks guys, this is great. Thanks