1 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,800 Hello everyone, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host, and 2 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,240 we have a great one for you this evening. I was lucky enough to 3 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,960 meet a really fine gentleman at the uf AP hearing. I guess I always 4 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,320 want to say UFO because that's what it is. It's a UFO UAP, 5 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:53,000 same thing. Anyway, So I met Keith in line early, and the 6 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:57,240 reason he was in line early is because he heard Chris Leto and I saying 7 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,159 that we were going to get in line early. But anyway, he's a 8 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:03,640 great guy. Can't wait to talk to him. He's really involved in law 9 00:01:03,759 --> 00:01:10,200 enforcement and I got an interesting take on this whole subject and I'm really looking 10 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,799 forward to speak to him. The blog this Week by Charles Lear is a 11 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:23,000 nineteen seventy six British UFO and humanoid encounter with paranormal overtowns overtones. So some 12 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:29,680 sad news just before the show last week. James good friend of James Fox 13 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,400 and myself and many other people in the UFO world and out of the UFO 14 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,159 world, Huffington Post and so many other places and connections with this wonderful man, 15 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,120 Lee Spiegel, passed away just before the show. Started last week. 16 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:52,200 I found out about it the day after Love the Guy. We were we 17 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:57,400 became very close over the years. We are going to do something for Lee 18 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:02,120 tribute. A whole bunch of us are getting together and just showing the type 19 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,080 of humor that Lee had. So we're getting together. I believe it's a 20 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:13,319 tentative date of September fourteenth. We're going to use his regular time slot for 21 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:20,360 Edge of Reality radio show over at UNX Radio, and that would be seven 22 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,000 to eight thirty pm Eastern on September fourteenth. Right now, that is a 23 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,240 tentative date. It should be a very good tribute to him. Lots of 24 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,439 people are going to be involved in that, and I will tell everyone how 25 00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:38,159 to be able to watch that live when that does happen. It's going to 26 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:44,599 be on video and audio on the station over there. So I just wanted 27 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,280 to the last time Lee was on, I always loved his sense of humor. 28 00:02:47,319 --> 00:02:53,240 And he tells this story about the UFO record album that he put out 29 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:59,520 back in nineteen seventy five, and I can't remember the name of right now, 30 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,560 but I think I have it on the clip here, But when he 31 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:05,680 was putting that together, he tells a story of how that all came together. 32 00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:10,800 And he really did come to New York City to become a folk singer. 33 00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:15,919 He was he's very talented. He sent me some of his music and 34 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:20,240 h but this is what ended up happening. And here's this little story about 35 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:32,680 It's three minutes long. Here it goes. My phone rang and I said 36 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:36,560 hello, and I heard this voice and said Ulie Spiegel. I said, 37 00:03:36,599 --> 00:03:39,520 yes, I am. He said, this is Ralph Blum. Who the 38 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:45,080 hell are you? And how the hell did you get my mail? I'm 39 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,960 thinking, Am I in trouble here? Did I? Did? I not 40 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,960 make the right decision? My father loved what I did, what I did 41 00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:00,400 what Ralph said, what do you want? And I told him and he 42 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:05,319 said, okay, let's meet. And from that point on we became friends 43 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:12,120 and he had connections. Their book that you just showed was published by Bantam 44 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,839 Books, and so he knew all the people in publishing and production and marketing 45 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,879 at Bantam, and he had friends, and I had some friends in the 46 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:26,240 recording industry. So we worked it out to do a pitch to the people 47 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:32,199 at CBS of the idea of letting me, with Ralph's help, contact all 48 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:36,399 these people that were in his book. He gave me all their contact information 49 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,600 so that I could start calling them and ask them if they would be interested 50 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:46,120 in having me come to visit them wherever they were in the country and interview 51 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:51,319 them for a vinyl documentary recording that I was going to produce for CBS. 52 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:58,680 And people said sure, And we worked out the deal so that if they 53 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:01,600 bought the record album from the TV commercial we ended up having for it. 54 00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:08,519 If you didn't like the album or the eight track tape, well, okay, 55 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,000 you could send the album back to us, but keep the book, 56 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,639 keep the Ralph Blum book as our gift, don't. You don't see much 57 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,920 of that kind of stuff anymore. But it was the first time. It 58 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,120 kind of became an instant classic in ufology. It was the first time that 59 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:32,920 a major recording company like CBS offered a UFO product to the public. It 60 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:39,439 was the first time that a UFO documentary was presented on TV in a two 61 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:46,120 minute infomercial. And it was one of the first UFO products that Dr J. 62 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:53,160 Allen Heinek chose that was offered for sale in the renowned Edmund's Scientific Catalog 63 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,079 at the time, and so he chose a variety of things like best books, 64 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,240 he liked, best slide shows, and mine was the only record that 65 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:06,040 was offered, and it was like wow, it just I couldn't believe my 66 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:13,319 luck of getting that far so quickly. And so okay. I came to 67 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,600 New York with a guitar looking for a record contract, and I finally got 68 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,000 a record contract. I had nothing to do with folk singing. It was 69 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:31,839 about chasing extraterrestrials. Go figure. Anyway, our good friend Lee may rest 70 00:06:31,879 --> 00:06:39,040 in peace, and so remember September fourteenth. That's with the tentative date. 71 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,680 Looks like it's going to be a really nice tribute with a lot of people 72 00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:46,879 involved, so stay tuned for that. And one other thing. I'm going 73 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,199 to be at moufon this symposium this coming weekend, so if you happen to 74 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,000 be there and you want to look me up, our guest just went away. 75 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:01,160 Hopefully he'll be right back in. So if you want to look me 76 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,920 up, I do have a podcast UFO hat I might wear that, but 77 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,600 most of the time I probably won't be But you can always email me if 78 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:15,959 you're there at the symposium Martin at podcast UFO dot com here's our guest. 79 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:20,279 Welcome Keith. Thank you. I saw you disappear. Where did you go? 80 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:27,399 My my my daughter called me on the on this on the phone, 81 00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:30,120 the iPhone, and it disconnected us. So I told her stop calling me 82 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,399 since we're in the same house. Wow, you're using an iPhone right now? 83 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,600 Yes, I am. Oh my goodness, how clear is that. 84 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:43,000 That's amazing. That's great. Yeah, it's amazing how far that technology has 85 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,279 come. Well, thank you so much. It was a real I knew 86 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:49,600 I felt a kinship right away when we met early in the morning in Line 87 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:59,279 on July. I was at August six, that's right, Wednesday. Yeah, 88 00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:03,399 that was really something. And the story I love to tell Martin as 89 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,120 how I was watching you and Chris Lato the evening before the hearing talking about 90 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,120 your in DC, both in DC and you were talking about how you were 91 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,000 expecting a large group to show up and how you guys are going to get 92 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,360 there early. And I had already had my ticket bought and it was supposed 93 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,160 to supposed to six thirty. I said, wait a second, I'm gonna 94 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:26,959 be late. I better get a couple of hours early. So I arrived 95 00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:31,559 at three thirty in DC. And because of that, I was able to 96 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:37,080 catch up with you and the other folks who were there early and eventually get 97 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,320 a seat. We didn't know they're only going to be thirty seats available. 98 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,159 I know, well I heard that the day before, but I said, 99 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:52,279 that can't be right, you know. And it was just amazing how the 100 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:56,519 line kept morphing and changing, and new people were coming in and strange people 101 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:05,399 we didn't see. They certainly weren't there in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. 102 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,679 And while we were standing online, you see represented Burschekye that's right, 103 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:13,559 able to get it. And of course Randall Nickerson was also there. He 104 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,960 was the first person online. Yeah, So it was it was amazing to 105 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,840 see all these folks who are pretty famous in this whole effort, uh, 106 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,720 there in the flesh. Yeah. So I and I saw you, and 107 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:30,720 I knew you from your podcast obviously and all the folks that you've interviewed and 108 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,519 uh and so I think that's one of the reasons why we hit it off. 109 00:09:35,039 --> 00:09:37,519 I was more of what they call, I think these days, a 110 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,399 fanboy, and I was just like, oh, can I take a picture 111 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,360 with you? Well, now I'm a fan of yours. After looking at 112 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:50,200 all that you are looking to do and did Why don't we talk about are 113 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,639 you're involved? You have a very uh major involvement with law enforcement over the 114 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:03,480 years, and you you are looking to see how these encounters are treated, 115 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:07,600 and well, right off the bat, before we go into all that, 116 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,720 how did you feel We haven't really talked about it, but how did you 117 00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:16,000 feel the hearing went? How did you feel they were treated? I think 118 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,879 it went tremendously well. I think the point of the hearing it was for 119 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:26,440 the general public consumption, for the general public has become familiar with some of 120 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,919 the issues that we're going to be dealing with in the future. And so 121 00:10:31,039 --> 00:10:39,279 by having these witnesses and especially the whistleblowers speak to the seriousness of the validity 122 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:45,559 of the things that he has encountered and has reported to Congress into the I 123 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,600 C. I G and D D I G S offices. It was really 124 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:54,000 an important day. It was what I think, in my head, a 125 00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:58,039 historic day, and I was there like everyone else is, to witness history 126 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,919 and what was that history it was? If you haven't seen that the video 127 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,720 of that hearing, go see it because there's so much information that's covered very 128 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:15,080 quickly in fleeting questions that each of the congresspeople is able to sort of get 129 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:22,200 out within that very limited amount of time, everything from crash retrievals to tow 130 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,000 bodies, biologics, and there were many different things that were discussed. The 131 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:37,559 most important takeaway is that we have a lot of ground to cover in exposing 132 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:52,840 eight decades long cover up of huge proportions regarding financial financial crimes and by the 133 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:56,759 way, non human intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you 134 00:11:56,759 --> 00:12:03,879 know, I think one of the hooks in this whole thing that keeps people 135 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:09,240 like bur Chet motivated to keep pushing along is the financial part of it. 136 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:13,720 You know, that is like, hey, this money is going. We 137 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:16,639 don't know where this money's going. There's a lot of there's billions of dollars 138 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:22,879 a year that just can't be found, that get lost somehow, you know 139 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:28,919 where what's going on. And in that case, there has to be accountability, 140 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,480 and you know, and I don't know, you know, I've heard 141 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:37,720 I don't know for sure, but I have heard rumors that he's that they're 142 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:46,000 not too keen on putting together another hearing. Yeah, at the house level, 143 00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:50,799 I don't I don't think that there's a political will from the leadership of 144 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:56,360 the House to go further with this conversation. I think that we're going to 145 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,879 have to hope that the Senate comes through with their hearings that hopefully they'll be 146 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:11,039 starting that next month. Regardless of whether it is something that happens immediately or 147 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,039 if it's rolled out over the next few months and years, this is something 148 00:13:16,039 --> 00:13:20,279 that's not going away. This is very much a reality in terms of the 149 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,440 UAP issue and the massive cover up and some of the crimes that we're committed 150 00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:31,879 by rogue elements within government to keep this secret from the general public. So 151 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,720 my stance is, let's let's let's get to it. Let's get prepared. 152 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,039 I'm an e mercy planner, public safety, law enforcement. Let's not wait 153 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:50,039 to react. Let's start getting prepared for whatever it is that we're going to 154 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:58,039 have to deal with with recognizing this n HI, dealing with the general public 155 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:05,320 in a much more rational way around NHI contact, sightings, abductions, and 156 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:13,480 really just understanding that just because we know more about the reality of our world 157 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:20,240 and our universe doesn't mean that it's unbelievable. It's simply just knowing something new 158 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,679 and we will. We will accept it eventually and we will adapt to it 159 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:35,279 whatever it is. So let's talk about you. What I mean, how 160 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,240 long have you felt this way? First of all, and then let's talk 161 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:43,519 a little bit about your background and what made you actually pay attention to the 162 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:48,399 UFO world. Sure, I started as a police officer back in the early 163 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:52,639 nineties, and I was fortunate enough to work with some really great people in 164 00:14:52,679 --> 00:15:03,039 different capacities, undercovering arconics officers, internal fair supervisor, policy and budget analysts 165 00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:07,720 within the police department, and I also Missing Person Squad during nine to eleven, 166 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:13,519 which was very difficult. Side of course, I work with some really 167 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:20,759 incredible people to bring honor to those who had fallen and got help from all 168 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:26,200 over the country. Was an amazing time of the country coming together with a 169 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:31,639 singular purpose and also an acknowledgement by the federal government that they needed to change 170 00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:37,279 the way they did business and saw intelligence. The relationships between the agencies had 171 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,960 to change and did in the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. And 172 00:15:43,879 --> 00:15:46,519 with the creation of Department of Homeland Security, one of the things that they 173 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:54,919 focused on was providing training to local and state first responders on dealing with weapons 174 00:15:54,919 --> 00:16:00,960 and mass destruction attacks. Our focus was on making certain that not only did 175 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,120 we have the general public's help through campaigns like See Something, Say Something, 176 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,120 but that our officers and other first responders had the equipment necessary to deal with 177 00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:22,159 those very rare encounters which could have very high consequences. So those WMD attacks 178 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,919 that we were worried about, the dirty bones and the biological and thrats attacks 179 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:33,919 and everything in between. So I was fortunate enough to get trained within the 180 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:41,720 NYPD working for their SWAT Heavy Rescue Team to deal with those types of situations 181 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:45,919 as well as medical emergencies and what are emergencies and high angle wrops emergencies. 182 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:55,480 Their Emergency Service Unit is a very special unit prepared for her everything under military 183 00:16:55,519 --> 00:17:00,600 attack, anything underneath the military attack. That's what the Emergence Service Unit deals 184 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:06,279 with. And so I would train out in places like doug Way and the 185 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:15,519 Nevada Test Site and the Annistate former Chemical Factory Chemical Army Depot, and that 186 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:23,240 training was to prepare me for dealing with some very hopefully unlikely situations but quite 187 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:32,680 possible. So with all of that WMD training, it was not a difficult 188 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:40,039 thing for me to understand the possibility of there being some thing other than what 189 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:45,440 we understand here on this earth, encounter, you know, dealing with with 190 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:52,559 people. What I never really did was I never thought about it. I 191 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,039 was sort of agnostic. It wasn't until twenty seventeen the New York Times article 192 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:03,359 Rob Blumthal and Leslie Keene, and even then I was really not so inclined 193 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,359 to think about it. Until twenty you had a phenomenon by James Fox, 194 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,880 and you had Rampa Nickerson's The Aerial Phenomenon, and then James Fox again Moment 195 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,599 of Contact. That's when I really started to sort of hone in on this 196 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,440 and realize that not only is it just compelling individuals with compelling stories of some 197 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:32,240 unusual situations, but that this was something that was becoming. It just sort 198 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,960 of dawn on me that, Hey, I'm in law enforcement, what are 199 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:41,759 we doing about this? Then going and seeing David Brush speaking and understanding that 200 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:47,079 there's a lot more than simply him speaking, him dealing with Congress and getting 201 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:56,640 forty witnesses to attest to what he found out firsthand witnesses to non human craft 202 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:07,039 and bodies. That is really sort of an amazing amazing revelation to actually hear 203 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,279 him say that under after I'll watching him say it on TV. Yeah, 204 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:14,960 i'd like to. I'd like to address address that while you just said that, 205 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,480 because I'm going to put this comment up and there's a couple or at 206 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:23,880 least one are under their similar So FLAPJACKA says, I feel Grush is similar 207 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,599 to Lazar. There's stories line up with some things we know, but still 208 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,400 we don't have anything concrete. It would all be which would be nice. 209 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,519 We have videos, et cetera, but show me the UFO And I understand 210 00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:38,200 that, thinking, yeah, we do want to see the nuts and bolts, 211 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:42,799 But I mean, should that mean that David Grush should have stayed quiet 212 00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:48,559 about this? And then later on down here this person says, yes, 213 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,559 Russian Lazar are the same. Ridiculous. Now I'd like to I'd like to 214 00:19:52,599 --> 00:20:00,319 address that because there is a huge difference in my opinion between Bob Lazar David 215 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:07,079 Grush. David Grush went under oath. He's risking everything he's he's you know, 216 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,400 he could go to jail if he's found out that he's lying. You 217 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:18,279 know, maybe the claims are extraordinary, and I understand, like you have 218 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:21,279 to be skeptic when the claims are like that, we'd really like just as 219 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:23,759 Alejandro my friend says, we'd like to see the receipts. Of course we 220 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:29,680 would, but this is cracking the door open. This is just my opinion. 221 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,480 But letting it be known that, you know, to the people out 222 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:40,799 there that please do come forward. Let's hear the first hand experiencers. That's 223 00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:44,279 what I'm hoping comes out of this whole thing. Yeah, you know, 224 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,680 I so much just saying I know we only have a few minutes together. 225 00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:49,920 But the first thing I want to say is we, you and I and 226 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:56,279 everybody listening, is we live in an unclassified world and what we are talking 227 00:20:56,319 --> 00:21:00,559 about is classified things, and none of us can speak to the veracity of 228 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:06,519 any claims that someone from the classified world is saying. We just have to 229 00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:11,400 be patient and let the investigative process go through. So rather than waste time 230 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,240 determ, you know, trying to figure out if there if it's true or 231 00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:22,359 not, let's let the authorities actually go through the process that was just created. 232 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,559 There was no whistleble process for this kind of information until very recently, 233 00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:37,039 and so David Crush is what you call an honors broker or an authentic representative 234 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,440 of the classified world. So we have to wait for the investigations of the 235 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:48,200 classified allegations that he's made. And he's only been able to share with us 236 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,000 the things that he's allowed to talk about. But you have to sort of 237 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,079 key on a few things that this is. Although he's talking to us for 238 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:02,200 the first time, this has been an ongoing investigation with Congress and the appropriate 239 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,119 investigate bodies for years. And if and if you listen closely to the leaders 240 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,039 of the Intel, you know, the various leaders that are out there, 241 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,200 they are not, you know, disregarding the whole situation. They're just being 242 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:18,960 quiet because they have to. They have to wait for the investigation to complete. 243 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,640 So for those who are saying I want to see bodies and I want 244 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,759 to see craft, we live in an unclassified world and there's no guarantee we're 245 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:30,960 ever going to be able to see classified stuff. But what we are going 246 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:37,160 to be able to do is get some sort of confirmation as to legitimacy of 247 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,799 what he's talking about. And and frankly, everything that I've read and heard 248 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:47,799 and seeing it leads me to believe that, you know, we have a 249 00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:52,160 lot more that we're going to be experiencing in the not too disre future regards. 250 00:22:52,839 --> 00:23:00,400 I hope so. And I I worry that, you know, and 251 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:07,400 maybe it's a false worry, but I worry that the umbrella of classified can 252 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,880 be overused in a situation. I do understand when it comes to national security 253 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,880 there are things that should not be out there because our adversaries, you know, 254 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,400 could use it against us. I understand that totally. But what I'm 255 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,039 afraid of is that, you know, we may end up knowing very little 256 00:23:25,559 --> 00:23:30,079 of the classified part of this. If a firsthand windess comes forward, if 257 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:33,400 they can only speak in a classified environment, how are we going to get 258 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,839 that relayed to us? And by whom you know, I mean, would 259 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,319 it be through another hearing type of situation or you know, what are your 260 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:48,240 thoughts on that? Well? I think that we've been experiencing experience seeing it, 261 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,559 particularly within the last few years, by looking at what former elected officials 262 00:23:53,599 --> 00:24:00,279 have been saying, by looking at the legislation that's being being passed or has 263 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:07,480 been passed, by the fact that investigations have been ongoing for years about this 264 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,039 issue, and the fact that you have a whistleblower that has come out, 265 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:19,160 the first but the first of many talking about some incredibly fantastical claims that are 266 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:26,680 fantastical because they challenge our worldview, They challenge our ideas about reality, about 267 00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:33,039 physics, about science, about our origins, about so many different aspects that 268 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,559 it is a whole lot to sort of take in. And I understand the 269 00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:41,880 resistance to that because when you say, oh, there's there's they exist, 270 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000 well, then there are a bunch of other questions that follow, yes, 271 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,079 And that's what I think, you know, the Robertson panel in the fifties 272 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:55,519 and the Rand Corporation study and all the other things that have sort of paged 273 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,519 the public's ability to handle this information. I think that's where they were coming 274 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,279 from. Plus the fact that there was a Cold War going on and so 275 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:10,240 many different things that sort of helped prevent us from progressing as a society with 276 00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:15,839 this understanding that there are more, there's more to the world than what would 277 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,119 we know now. It's simply more to the world than what we are allowed 278 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,119 to know. And so all that anger frustration should not be directed to whistleblowers, 279 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,400 should be directed to the rogue elements within government that have been keeping and 280 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:37,119 are keeping these secrets away from us and also secrets of crimes. Yes, 281 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:41,039 yes, and there's there's parallels there. So I'm just putting this up here 282 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:47,079 because it's just to find the listeners. So Jonathan Wagan coming up on September 283 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,200 five, So far to go, I've asked up. There's there's a lot 284 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,480 of people that are contacting me about this particular guest coming up, and all 285 00:25:56,519 --> 00:26:02,240 I ask is that no one tried to reach him, respect his privacy, 286 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,359 and the last thing I want is for someone to contact him now and somehow 287 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:15,160 make him uneasy to do the interview, which is coming up, what in 288 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,799 a couple of weeks, right, Yeah, just like a couple of weeks. 289 00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:22,119 So anyway, I'm really looking forward to that. That'll be an interesting 290 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,039 one. Anyone that's seen his old two thousand and one or three, whatever 291 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:34,200 it is interview will understand why I'm excited about that guest. Well, if 292 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:40,279 I may, Yeah, we look at you know, I'm very new to 293 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:47,880 this whole UFBO community, but very impassionate about it. There's so much documentation, 294 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:52,920 so many historical accounts, some pictures and videos, and it's online places 295 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,039 like UFBO b and ies on cinema where you can see police officers and others 296 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:03,039 who have had to deal with these incidents and encounters of all different types of 297 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:12,599 encounters from sightings to to abductions. But what we are doing is we are 298 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:18,039 simply looking at the tip of the iceberg because of the stigma, because there's 299 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:25,119 no infrastructure for report, no formal infrastructure. There of course voluntary efforts long 300 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,559 standing and heroic, but they are still not a part of the official record, 301 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,960 so we don't have data for scientists to review. And so out of 302 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,279 the numbers of instance that have occurred, I wouldn't think that there have been 303 00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:47,319 many, many times that where people have been afraid to discuss it in both 304 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,400 on the military side and also in private private sector, just local communities afraid 305 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,240 to talk about these things because they see what happens to people who do talk 306 00:27:56,279 --> 00:28:02,279 about it. That's right. And for that matter, we are seventy percent 307 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,240 as a world, We are seventy percent covered by water. People don't live 308 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,839 on seventy percent of the planet, so we have no idea of the frequency 309 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,200 encounter incidents that are occurring with our world with entities that are maybe coming from 310 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,000 other places, now the government does and you know, to extend that they're 311 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:29,119 able to tell the truth. And I think, I think that it's time 312 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,440 and I think frankly that not just the American public, but the world is 313 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:40,319 ready for acknowledgment of what they suspected and documented themselves over many generations. Yes, 314 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,240 yes, we're talking just a second ago there about how law enforcement. 315 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:53,240 I wanted to share this. This incident was also my good friendly Spiegel was 316 00:28:53,559 --> 00:29:00,640 very much involved with this particular case. And it's really fast, fascinating. 317 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:07,400 This happened in Lumberton, North Carolina, and many people have heard Lee talk 318 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,200 about it, but this involved a lot. I think there was up to 319 00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:18,759 thirty policemen when this encounter happened, and back in nineteen seventy five, and 320 00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:26,480 a triangle UFO basically floated right over right over the group of them and then 321 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:30,880 shot this light beam down right in the middle of them. And yeah, 322 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,359 it was quite it's quite a story that blogs up on. We just reissued 323 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,240 that blog. Here's some paperwork on it. But check that out on podcast 324 00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:42,480 UFO dot com as well. This it was just reposted last week. But 325 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:48,799 another interesting sighting and I would like to talk to you about you know, 326 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,079 historic police encounters. There's a lot of them. I'm sure you've looked into 327 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,319 them. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I did ask a website 328 00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:03,240 YouTube UFO be if they could create a channel just for UFOs and police, 329 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,599 and they did. And right now there are twenty seven well known cases that 330 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,279 they placed everything from Zamora out in New Mexico to the Exeter, New Hampshire 331 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:18,920 incident, you know, all over the country, and they have not just 332 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:22,640 over the United States, but all over the Europe as well. The Belgium 333 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:29,720 case where you've got people multiple officers, that the two thousand Saint Clair County, 334 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:36,000 Illinois police siding case where they're chasing the thing over multiple counties here dispatch 335 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,440 handing off the job from one county to the other. And so it all 336 00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:48,000 leads to this conclusion that there have been many encounters but for the from the 337 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:55,160 part of the government, they have not given first responders the tools, the 338 00:30:55,319 --> 00:31:02,079 education, the training, the equipment that they would need in order to look 339 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:10,440 to prevent negative encounters. Referring so public safety being at the forefront of what 340 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,720 law enforcement and other first responders should do. That would mean that they, 341 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:22,279 you know, whatever the government knows and whatever equipment they have that can help 342 00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:30,640 develop best practices for first responders that are answering the nine one one calls from 343 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:37,920 the general public to response to these incidents. We need to develop those practices 344 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:44,079 and policies and training and education as a country. It maybe be a model 345 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:49,359 for the rest of the world to allow officers to not just be victims when 346 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:56,720 they get to the scene and whatever the anonymous phenomena exists is happening, that 347 00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:01,440 they then become the Stimpson as well. And you know, you go through 348 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,440 the historical record, you could see officers getting injured and killed. The George 349 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,400 Wheeler case in Pierce County, Wisconsin, nineteen seventy six, he got I 350 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,319 guess if you could call it or radiated. I think that car is still 351 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:22,319 that car still lives somewhere. And you're you're talking about the Val Johnson. 352 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,960 Oh, yes, you're right, I seventy nine, Marshall County, Minnesota. 353 00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,640 Yeah, where he lost time, the whole thing, right, So, 354 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:38,039 we have documentation, We have evidence of the symptoms of this. We 355 00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:45,640 have documentation of the physical injuries that individuals have had when they've encountered whatever it 356 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:51,079 is that they're encountered where there's an electromagnetic radiation or some other Mike what, 357 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,920 I don't know. I'm not a scientist, That's not my lane. I'm 358 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,880 just a first responder, public safety, emergency planner. And what I see 359 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,640 that should be the impetus of agencies like PHARMA, Homeland security and our law 360 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,160 enforcement leaders is what are we going to do now that we know that this 361 00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:15,880 information exists? How are we going to help our first responders? Certainly we 362 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:27,640 can't continue stigma and ridicule and you know, basically having a psych exam perhaps 363 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,720 for those that are simply telling the truth with what they've encountered. Now, 364 00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:38,319 let me ask you this, prior to twenty seventeen, did you give much 365 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,240 thought to the topic or if you did, did you kind of pass it 366 00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:47,200 off as nothing? Never gave any any thought to the topic. And I 367 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:53,279 was going to all these places during the training again dug Way proving grounds to 368 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:59,359 the bio training and got a test side had not a clue as a matter 369 00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:06,400 of fact, and train for a trained emergency's fronts responders in UH what they 370 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:12,000 call National Incident Management System i c S. It's a command system that taught 371 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,000 that to municipalities throughout the country, never even you know, gave it, 372 00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:22,719 gave it affective thought that the company I worked for, sa C had some 373 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:30,199 sort of connection a possible connection to this, uh you know n HI and 374 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:37,840 and re engineering, uh you know technology not from this serve. You know, 375 00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:45,039 it's certainly uh you know, this is in the nineteen nineties, two 376 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:51,840 thousand, rather two thousands into the early two thousand tens, so that all 377 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,440 those things, you know, I was just like everybody else, no interest, 378 00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,800 not not really concerned. But now I am concerned because what I did 379 00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:05,239 about two months ago, I was just an informal survey. I reached out 380 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,840 to all the state police and I just sent them emails inquiring, and also 381 00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:15,199 the top five police departments of all the all the states and just ask them, 382 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,199 you know, what do you have in terms of policies or procedures dealing 383 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,880 with sightings or contacts or productions. And the answer was uniformly, no, 384 00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:30,920 nothing. We don't have anything relevant to what you're speaking about. And that's 385 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,440 what I expected. And I only I got twenty five percent of spots, 386 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,639 but that's what I expected. Small agencies to large, they're they're not focused 387 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:46,559 on this and they may be waiting perhaps from direction and guidance from Homeland Security 388 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:52,639 or Defense Department that I think would be the logical thing for them to do. 389 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,760 But as far as I'm concerned, we need to, you know, 390 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:06,360 collectively start putting our heads together and thinking about how we can better address this 391 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:12,559 issue. And there are a couple of organizations that have developed to try and 392 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,360 deal with the issue. Uap med is new ap dash Med is one of 393 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:24,599 those agent organizations where they are trying to coalesce and get those in the medical 394 00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:36,559 and mental health community to help better the resources and better the efforts of those 395 00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:40,320 in that community to help deal with this issue. They don't provide you know, 396 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,400 medical or mental health services themselves, but they help to coordinate and get 397 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:53,480 those those efforts to help those who need those services to get that treatment that 398 00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:58,519 they need. And I know that they have a web present to uap dash 399 00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:04,400 med do med, and I know that they are also interested in getting those 400 00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:09,840 in the medical and mental health community to to to work with them and to 401 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:19,360 to get some concrete best practices and have best to address the issues of of 402 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:28,239 everything contacts to those who have been abducted and how that that how that discipline, 403 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,679 how those disciplines can can more appropriately deal with those issues. And I 404 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,360 know Ted Brown, it's the person who founded that organization, also was instrumental 405 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,599 in starting aia HEY, which people know because of pilot Ryan Graves, who's 406 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:49,760 who's part of that. And they're they're again focused on public safety. You 407 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,840 know, folks are flying these planes, commercial flights, military flights, and 408 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:59,679 they're dealing with stuff they don't understand that their accounting and if they are not 409 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:07,079 any kind of you know, helpful feedback from those who are responsible for their 410 00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:14,000 well being than they are, rightfully, they should rightfully be concerned and moving 411 00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:19,760 to change that. Yeah. So I the other thing that that one of 412 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:25,679 there's an organization that started uap that that PD some individuals out in New Mexico, 413 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,119 officers in New Mexico who have created an organization to help officers who have 414 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:37,320 had encounters and they are absolutely not going to talk to their colleagues or to 415 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,519 you know, family members, or to anybody else about it because they're concerned 416 00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:46,039 about the negative consequences of doing so. And so uap PD was set up 417 00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:53,199 to help them tell their stories in a safe way that that does not will 418 00:38:53,239 --> 00:39:00,840 not cause up any repercussions in a negative client. So those are those are 419 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:10,000 two really important efforts. But ultimately we're going to need those who are responsible 420 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:22,639 in in our government to create processes for reporting guidance for those stakeholders who are 421 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:30,440 responsible for responding to the general public to deal with those those issues. And 422 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:37,119 and and then we will have a way for scientists to get reliable data that 423 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:50,719 is that that is is transparent and in his uniform and covers not just certain 424 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,239 areas, but covers the entire country, and so that we can actually from 425 00:39:54,239 --> 00:40:00,239 that data perhaps get some some headway. Now, I have heard it one 426 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:06,679 time that police stations all around the country were given uh, you know, 427 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:14,400 Moufon's phone number and also the one Pete and Davenport nightcap was given both of 428 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,400 those phone numbers. And you know, when I didn't know when I had 429 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,559 my encounter in two thousand and seven, I had no idea what to do. 430 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,840 And the first thing that I thought to do was I'm going to call 431 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,000 the police. I had no idea there was anything online or anything like that. 432 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,840 So when I called the police department and I said, this is non 433 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,519 emergency, but you know, there is this craft that just is flying right 434 00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:40,320 now towards Monterey, and I want to know, do other people see it? 435 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,719 You know? And she said, what is it? I said, 436 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,519 well, it was a round disk, and you know, I guess it's 437 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:49,760 a UFO, I don't, you know. And so then she was totally 438 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,039 sarcastic, and she never said anything. She just put me on hold for 439 00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:59,000 about twenty minutes and I finally hung up and gave up. And but so 440 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,960 that that was I would say probably a typical reaction. I would think a 441 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,440 police department or dispatcher me, uh, you know, treat someone like I'm 442 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:15,559 not sure. Well, let's look at what the guides are, directives they're 443 00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:22,920 given. You know, the the National UFO Reporting Center started nineteen seventy four. 444 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:28,719 They've covered perhaps one hundred and fifty thousand sightings since that time. Calls 445 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:34,440 that they've gotten for the general public preferred to by nine one one dispatch as 446 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,119 well as law enforcement. But they don't go out to conduct investigations. They 447 00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:44,760 don't have any ability or resources to do that. So they're making the call. 448 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,960 And where is it go. It's with Newport. And then you have 449 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,000 the PO Fond, which is start in nineteen sixty nine, and they do 450 00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:58,760 have field investigators. They have the training program, four thousand active members, 451 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:05,599 six hundred field investorators, and they worked to to filter out, you know, 452 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,119 hoaxes from the calls that they get. But that is still a private 453 00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:16,840 effort. And then then for pilots you have the National Aviation Reporting Center on 454 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:24,920 Anomalous Phenomena NARCAPS started nineteen ninety nine. Civilian Reporting Center focusing on aviation related 455 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:32,199 aps fits over. So you have those two major private efforts voluntary efforts, 456 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:37,360 and then and then you have also the NARCAP, which is the aviation version 457 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:46,679 of it. When FAG the guides that they have direct pilots to encounter any 458 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:53,119 kind of public safety issues or property damage from UAP encounters to contact the local 459 00:42:53,159 --> 00:43:00,519 police department once they land. Now, I just told you my informed survey 460 00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:07,880 shows that there's nothing that law enforcement has to deal with UAP encounters. And 461 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,559 so when you look at the private efforts, where do they connect to in 462 00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:20,239 terms of government? And if there's no way for government to accurately account for 463 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:27,159 all of these incidents that are being reported, then how are we able to 464 00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:34,559 get data that's reliable enough for scientists to work on and all that needs to 465 00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:38,480 change and government and whatever capacity it's going to do it. I would probably 466 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:46,039 think home in security, but it may be some other agency or agencies where 467 00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:55,480 they're able to get a reliable reporting system that includes utilizing the first responders that 468 00:43:55,679 --> 00:44:00,960 utilize in the commercial and the military pilots. I know the mid Terius is 469 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,199 working on. You know, they've got their own reporting systems to putting together. 470 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:13,079 But all this has to be not just done in a formal way through 471 00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:17,440 government oversight and control, but it has to be collected and then shared with 472 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,159 the general public, just as we do in crimes and for everything with the 473 00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:29,920 FBI, uh you see are reporting system. We need to have similar types 474 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,960 of systems in place so we can understand the frequency of these events actually occur, 475 00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:38,760 right because we don't don't we don't know, We have not a clue. 476 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,920 I bet you there's people in the government that are paying attention to this 477 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:50,000 that would just hope the whole thing would go away, you know somehow, 478 00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:52,920 Like you mentioned the Robertson panel that was that effort back then. You know, 479 00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:57,960 maybe there's uh, you know, we'll see what efforts are upcoming. 480 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,360 Here's a question for you as a doctor. Richard asked, as a detective, 481 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:08,679 do you think that visitors ever plant evidence to mislead UFO investigators? Interesting? 482 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,800 The real the real answer, the only answer I get as I have 483 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:19,360 not a clue, and it relates to what I just said about their not 484 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:25,639 being an official governmental accounting for these, uh, these encounters. But can 485 00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:30,519 I say that all the thousands of thousands, tens of thousands of people, 486 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:38,159 the hundreds of thousands of reports that have occurred over less seventy decades, that 487 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,400 all of those individuals are making it up or having some sort of mental health 488 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:52,320 crisis or you know some other you know, seeing a perspec weather or the 489 00:45:52,400 --> 00:46:00,000 loon or some other excuse. Certainly much in the air is can be explained 490 00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,440 prosaic, but maybe nine percent of it or more. But that's not what 491 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,440 we're talking about. We're talking about that other percentage where you have like the 492 00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:14,800 five observables. Yeah, and those are the things that our government, the 493 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:21,400 American government has already uh stated exists. So if you're looking for a disclosure 494 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,760 in a more formal way of having an elected leader come up to a podium 495 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,199 and saying, you know, well, they're out there and you know we've 496 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,360 had encounterable Yeah, that's that's fine, But you don't have to wait for 497 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:44,559 that. You already had Defense Department leadership statement through their through their encounters and 498 00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:49,199 with Newspadia that that yes, they do exist. The reports that they've created 499 00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:55,840 within the last few years had stated that there are things that exist. And 500 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:02,679 when I heard somebody say recently that I thought was really relevant was that we 501 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:09,199 don't have to say UAP unidentified. It simply that the government will not tell 502 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,280 us what they are. That they do know what they are, but they're 503 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,719 refusing to let us know, so they will call it unidentified. But whatever 504 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:28,400 these anomalous things are, And again I have not a clue. I'm just 505 00:47:29,079 --> 00:47:34,440 a civilian activists like many out there maybe watching this, So I don't have 506 00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:38,679 any more information than anyone else about UAP, but I have a lot of 507 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:45,039 information about law enforcements. And I think as we get more and more people 508 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:51,719 from the very disappointments that historically have created a lot of stigma around the pursuit 509 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,400 of this topic, as long as as we have more and more credible people 510 00:47:58,039 --> 00:48:01,039 coming out and stating that this is something that we need to focus on as 511 00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:07,519 a society. I think it's going to see break away at that wall of 512 00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:15,920 stigma that does not allow many people in this country to seriously consider even talking 513 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,639 about Yeah, and I know this is the casement of the family members, 514 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:27,519 friends. I don't talk to them about unless they ask because of this stigma 515 00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:32,440 that exists where you know, they will not understand what I'm saying, or 516 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:38,280 they think that I'm joking or that it's some sort of craziness. Yeah, 517 00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:45,079 so it is what it is. Right In my professional world, I have 518 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,920 as a as a fine art appraiser, antiques appraiser, something like that, 519 00:48:51,079 --> 00:48:54,840 or very I always try to be professional and be careful about talking about this 520 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,920 subject. But I know I sent you a text today about how this happened. 521 00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:04,760 Last week. I was in a house down on Cape Cod and the 522 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,599 woman had some beautiful artwork. Plus she had some really unusual glass She's an 523 00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:15,159 artist herself and did these glass sculptures that were fantastic, And all of a 524 00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:17,880 sudden, she says to me, you know, I think if aliens are 525 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,119 visiting us, they're going to think these glass sculptures are interesting. So it 526 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,679 kind of opened the door for me to I said, it's funny you should 527 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,360 say that. Did you hear about the hearing that happened recently? She goes, 528 00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:36,239 I watched the whole thing. I was glued to my seat, and 529 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,719 I said, I was there. It's all you know, we got to 530 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:43,880 do this great conversation. Now, she's a mathematician that I worked consulting through 531 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,480 all these companies, A brilliant, brilliant lady. And her husband is also 532 00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:52,360 and they both were very intrigued. And I think it's a great time because 533 00:49:53,079 --> 00:50:00,199 these people in all walks of life and all types of jobs that they did 534 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,880 or do or whatever, all are taking a look. Now it's getting you 535 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,039 know, if anything, you know, if everything else fails, at least 536 00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:13,119 we have people paying attention to it. Well, what we really need to 537 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:20,519 pay attention to collectively our efforts to dissuade us or divert us from talking about 538 00:50:20,639 --> 00:50:28,480 this issue. I am concerned that those same rogue elements and government and private 539 00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:34,760 industry that are responsible for us getting to this point of not knowing much or 540 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,480 if anything about this, that they're still pretty much doing what they're doing. 541 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:49,159 And when I saw what happened with mister grush gushing brush regarding the police reports, 542 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:55,599 specific police reports. Certainly they were quote unte publicly available, but there 543 00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:00,360 was some a little help from you know, folks within I see or do 544 00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:08,400 D to help guide that reporter to that those specific you know documents, Yeah, 545 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,360 those specific dates and places, because supposedly the name would have been redacted, 546 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,440 they wouldn't have availability to that, so they had to know the incidents. 547 00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:22,199 And I don't even think it was too embarrass because he had already warned 548 00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:27,280 in the hearing that it was going to happen. What I think and what 549 00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:31,079 most people you know, rationally speaking with it, is that it's a message 550 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:38,280 to any future whistleblowers to discourage them. That's what That's the very very very 551 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,519 first thing I said. I said, this has one goal, and that 552 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,159 is to discourage anyone else from coming forward. When I first saw that and 553 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,719 that, I felt that all along. I sent that out to Ross Colhart 554 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,719 immediately and Bryce Sable, and it's just my thoughts, you know, what 555 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,079 I do for folks that are not ready to talk about non human intelligence, 556 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,480 don't think about it. Just think about it as a big scandal for involving 557 00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:12,280 a lot of money and rogue program program ye spending Congress wasn't even aware of. 558 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,719 And so that's like government going wrong. And so if you think of 559 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:22,880 it as a big scandal and don't think about that non human intelligence, and 560 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,639 you're not going to be affective when people trying to distract you talking about little 561 00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:31,000 green man, right, or surveying their their constituents about do you think that, 562 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,400 you know, looking into little green men as a waste of time? 563 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,320 No, forget that. Just follow the money. That's what's exactly right. 564 00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,119 I should be worried about. That's what they'll get where they'll get there answers 565 00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:46,239 the time flew by, I knew it would. Thank you so much. 566 00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:52,519 It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Hope to have you back one 567 00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:57,199 day. Thank you. I'm looking to take care of all right, all 568 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,239 right everyone, So we'll be back next week. And I don't know who 569 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,760 I'm going to be at the mouf On Symposium. I'm going to pick someone 570 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,199 out and do a show, or a couple of people out and do a 571 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,559 show together. We'll see what happens. So we'll see you then next week. 572 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,480 Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.