Hello everyone, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host, and
we have a great one for you this evening. I was lucky enough to
meet a really fine gentleman at the uf AP hearing. I guess I always
want to say UFO because that's what it is. It's a UFO UAP,
same thing. Anyway, So I met Keith in line early, and the
reason he was in line early is because he heard Chris Leto and I saying
that we were going to get in line early. But anyway, he's a
great guy. Can't wait to talk to him. He's really involved in law
enforcement and I got an interesting take on this whole subject and I'm really looking
forward to speak to him. The blog this Week by Charles Lear is a
nineteen seventy six British UFO and humanoid encounter with paranormal overtowns overtones. So some
sad news just before the show last week. James good friend of James Fox
and myself and many other people in the UFO world and out of the UFO
world, Huffington Post and so many other places and connections with this wonderful man,
Lee Spiegel, passed away just before the show. Started last week.
I found out about it the day after Love the Guy. We were we
became very close over the years. We are going to do something for Lee
tribute. A whole bunch of us are getting together and just showing the type
of humor that Lee had. So we're getting together. I believe it's a
tentative date of September fourteenth. We're going to use his regular time slot for
Edge of Reality radio show over at UNX Radio, and that would be seven
to eight thirty pm Eastern on September fourteenth. Right now, that is a
tentative date. It should be a very good tribute to him. Lots of
people are going to be involved in that, and I will tell everyone how
to be able to watch that live when that does happen. It's going to
be on video and audio on the station over there. So I just wanted
to the last time Lee was on, I always loved his sense of humor.
And he tells this story about the UFO record album that he put out
back in nineteen seventy five, and I can't remember the name of right now,
but I think I have it on the clip here, But when he
was putting that together, he tells a story of how that all came together.
And he really did come to New York City to become a folk singer.
He was he's very talented. He sent me some of his music and
h but this is what ended up happening. And here's this little story about
It's three minutes long. Here it goes. My phone rang and I said
hello, and I heard this voice and said Ulie Spiegel. I said,
yes, I am. He said, this is Ralph Blum. Who the
hell are you? And how the hell did you get my mail? I'm
thinking, Am I in trouble here? Did I? Did? I not
make the right decision? My father loved what I did, what I did
what Ralph said, what do you want? And I told him and he
said, okay, let's meet. And from that point on we became friends
and he had connections. Their book that you just showed was published by Bantam
Books, and so he knew all the people in publishing and production and marketing
at Bantam, and he had friends, and I had some friends in the
recording industry. So we worked it out to do a pitch to the people
at CBS of the idea of letting me, with Ralph's help, contact all
these people that were in his book. He gave me all their contact information
so that I could start calling them and ask them if they would be interested
in having me come to visit them wherever they were in the country and interview
them for a vinyl documentary recording that I was going to produce for CBS.
And people said sure, And we worked out the deal so that if they
bought the record album from the TV commercial we ended up having for it.
If you didn't like the album or the eight track tape, well, okay,
you could send the album back to us, but keep the book,
keep the Ralph Blum book as our gift, don't. You don't see much
of that kind of stuff anymore. But it was the first time. It
kind of became an instant classic in ufology. It was the first time that
a major recording company like CBS offered a UFO product to the public. It
was the first time that a UFO documentary was presented on TV in a two
minute infomercial. And it was one of the first UFO products that Dr J.
Allen Heinek chose that was offered for sale in the renowned Edmund's Scientific Catalog
at the time, and so he chose a variety of things like best books,
he liked, best slide shows, and mine was the only record that
was offered, and it was like wow, it just I couldn't believe my
luck of getting that far so quickly. And so okay. I came to
New York with a guitar looking for a record contract, and I finally got
a record contract. I had nothing to do with folk singing. It was
about chasing extraterrestrials. Go figure. Anyway, our good friend Lee may rest
in peace, and so remember September fourteenth. That's with the tentative date.
Looks like it's going to be a really nice tribute with a lot of people
involved, so stay tuned for that. And one other thing. I'm going
to be at moufon this symposium this coming weekend, so if you happen to
be there and you want to look me up, our guest just went away.
Hopefully he'll be right back in. So if you want to look me
up, I do have a podcast UFO hat I might wear that, but
most of the time I probably won't be But you can always email me if
you're there at the symposium Martin at podcast UFO dot com here's our guest.
Welcome Keith. Thank you. I saw you disappear. Where did you go?
My my my daughter called me on the on this on the phone,
the iPhone, and it disconnected us. So I told her stop calling me
since we're in the same house. Wow, you're using an iPhone right now?
Yes, I am. Oh my goodness, how clear is that.
That's amazing. That's great. Yeah, it's amazing how far that technology has
come. Well, thank you so much. It was a real I knew
I felt a kinship right away when we met early in the morning in Line
on July. I was at August six, that's right, Wednesday. Yeah,
that was really something. And the story I love to tell Martin as
how I was watching you and Chris Lato the evening before the hearing talking about
your in DC, both in DC and you were talking about how you were
expecting a large group to show up and how you guys are going to get
there early. And I had already had my ticket bought and it was supposed
to supposed to six thirty. I said, wait a second, I'm gonna
be late. I better get a couple of hours early. So I arrived
at three thirty in DC. And because of that, I was able to
catch up with you and the other folks who were there early and eventually get
a seat. We didn't know they're only going to be thirty seats available.
I know, well I heard that the day before, but I said,
that can't be right, you know. And it was just amazing how the
line kept morphing and changing, and new people were coming in and strange people
we didn't see. They certainly weren't there in the morning. Yeah. Yeah.
And while we were standing online, you see represented Burschekye that's right,
able to get it. And of course Randall Nickerson was also there. He
was the first person online. Yeah, So it was it was amazing to
see all these folks who are pretty famous in this whole effort, uh,
there in the flesh. Yeah. So I and I saw you, and
I knew you from your podcast obviously and all the folks that you've interviewed and
uh and so I think that's one of the reasons why we hit it off.
I was more of what they call, I think these days, a
fanboy, and I was just like, oh, can I take a picture
with you? Well, now I'm a fan of yours. After looking at
all that you are looking to do and did Why don't we talk about are
you're involved? You have a very uh major involvement with law enforcement over the
years, and you you are looking to see how these encounters are treated,
and well, right off the bat, before we go into all that,
how did you feel We haven't really talked about it, but how did you
feel the hearing went? How did you feel they were treated? I think
it went tremendously well. I think the point of the hearing it was for
the general public consumption, for the general public has become familiar with some of
the issues that we're going to be dealing with in the future. And so
by having these witnesses and especially the whistleblowers speak to the seriousness of the validity
of the things that he has encountered and has reported to Congress into the I
C. I G and D D I G S offices. It was really
an important day. It was what I think, in my head, a
historic day, and I was there like everyone else is, to witness history
and what was that history it was? If you haven't seen that the video
of that hearing, go see it because there's so much information that's covered very
quickly in fleeting questions that each of the congresspeople is able to sort of get
out within that very limited amount of time, everything from crash retrievals to tow
bodies, biologics, and there were many different things that were discussed. The
most important takeaway is that we have a lot of ground to cover in exposing
eight decades long cover up of huge proportions regarding financial financial crimes and by the
way, non human intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you
know, I think one of the hooks in this whole thing that keeps people
like bur Chet motivated to keep pushing along is the financial part of it.
You know, that is like, hey, this money is going. We
don't know where this money's going. There's a lot of there's billions of dollars
a year that just can't be found, that get lost somehow, you know
where what's going on. And in that case, there has to be accountability,
and you know, and I don't know, you know, I've heard
I don't know for sure, but I have heard rumors that he's that they're
not too keen on putting together another hearing. Yeah, at the house level,
I don't I don't think that there's a political will from the leadership of
the House to go further with this conversation. I think that we're going to
have to hope that the Senate comes through with their hearings that hopefully they'll be
starting that next month. Regardless of whether it is something that happens immediately or
if it's rolled out over the next few months and years, this is something
that's not going away. This is very much a reality in terms of the
UAP issue and the massive cover up and some of the crimes that we're committed
by rogue elements within government to keep this secret from the general public. So
my stance is, let's let's let's get to it. Let's get prepared.
I'm an e mercy planner, public safety, law enforcement. Let's not wait
to react. Let's start getting prepared for whatever it is that we're going to
have to deal with with recognizing this n HI, dealing with the general public
in a much more rational way around NHI contact, sightings, abductions, and
really just understanding that just because we know more about the reality of our world
and our universe doesn't mean that it's unbelievable. It's simply just knowing something new
and we will. We will accept it eventually and we will adapt to it
whatever it is. So let's talk about you. What I mean, how
long have you felt this way? First of all, and then let's talk
a little bit about your background and what made you actually pay attention to the
UFO world. Sure, I started as a police officer back in the early
nineties, and I was fortunate enough to work with some really great people in
different capacities, undercovering arconics officers, internal fair supervisor, policy and budget analysts
within the police department, and I also Missing Person Squad during nine to eleven,
which was very difficult. Side of course, I work with some really
incredible people to bring honor to those who had fallen and got help from all
over the country. Was an amazing time of the country coming together with a
singular purpose and also an acknowledgement by the federal government that they needed to change
the way they did business and saw intelligence. The relationships between the agencies had
to change and did in the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. And
with the creation of Department of Homeland Security, one of the things that they
focused on was providing training to local and state first responders on dealing with weapons
and mass destruction attacks. Our focus was on making certain that not only did
we have the general public's help through campaigns like See Something, Say Something,
but that our officers and other first responders had the equipment necessary to deal with
those very rare encounters which could have very high consequences. So those WMD attacks
that we were worried about, the dirty bones and the biological and thrats attacks
and everything in between. So I was fortunate enough to get trained within the
NYPD working for their SWAT Heavy Rescue Team to deal with those types of situations
as well as medical emergencies and what are emergencies and high angle wrops emergencies.
Their Emergency Service Unit is a very special unit prepared for her everything under military
attack, anything underneath the military attack. That's what the Emergence Service Unit deals
with. And so I would train out in places like doug Way and the
Nevada Test Site and the Annistate former Chemical Factory Chemical Army Depot, and that
training was to prepare me for dealing with some very hopefully unlikely situations but quite
possible. So with all of that WMD training, it was not a difficult
thing for me to understand the possibility of there being some thing other than what
we understand here on this earth, encounter, you know, dealing with with
people. What I never really did was I never thought about it. I
was sort of agnostic. It wasn't until twenty seventeen the New York Times article
Rob Blumthal and Leslie Keene, and even then I was really not so inclined
to think about it. Until twenty you had a phenomenon by James Fox,
and you had Rampa Nickerson's The Aerial Phenomenon, and then James Fox again Moment
of Contact. That's when I really started to sort of hone in on this
and realize that not only is it just compelling individuals with compelling stories of some
unusual situations, but that this was something that was becoming. It just sort
of dawn on me that, Hey, I'm in law enforcement, what are
we doing about this? Then going and seeing David Brush speaking and understanding that
there's a lot more than simply him speaking, him dealing with Congress and getting
forty witnesses to attest to what he found out firsthand witnesses to non human craft
and bodies. That is really sort of an amazing amazing revelation to actually hear
him say that under after I'll watching him say it on TV. Yeah,
i'd like to. I'd like to address address that while you just said that,
because I'm going to put this comment up and there's a couple or at
least one are under their similar So FLAPJACKA says, I feel Grush is similar
to Lazar. There's stories line up with some things we know, but still
we don't have anything concrete. It would all be which would be nice.
We have videos, et cetera, but show me the UFO And I understand
that, thinking, yeah, we do want to see the nuts and bolts,
But I mean, should that mean that David Grush should have stayed quiet
about this? And then later on down here this person says, yes,
Russian Lazar are the same. Ridiculous. Now I'd like to I'd like to
address that because there is a huge difference in my opinion between Bob Lazar David
Grush. David Grush went under oath. He's risking everything he's he's you know,
he could go to jail if he's found out that he's lying. You
know, maybe the claims are extraordinary, and I understand, like you have
to be skeptic when the claims are like that, we'd really like just as
Alejandro my friend says, we'd like to see the receipts. Of course we
would, but this is cracking the door open. This is just my opinion.
But letting it be known that, you know, to the people out
there that please do come forward. Let's hear the first hand experiencers. That's
what I'm hoping comes out of this whole thing. Yeah, you know,
I so much just saying I know we only have a few minutes together.
But the first thing I want to say is we, you and I and
everybody listening, is we live in an unclassified world and what we are talking
about is classified things, and none of us can speak to the veracity of
any claims that someone from the classified world is saying. We just have to
be patient and let the investigative process go through. So rather than waste time
determ, you know, trying to figure out if there if it's true or
not, let's let the authorities actually go through the process that was just created.
There was no whistleble process for this kind of information until very recently,
and so David Crush is what you call an honors broker or an authentic representative
of the classified world. So we have to wait for the investigations of the
classified allegations that he's made. And he's only been able to share with us
the things that he's allowed to talk about. But you have to sort of
key on a few things that this is. Although he's talking to us for
the first time, this has been an ongoing investigation with Congress and the appropriate
investigate bodies for years. And if and if you listen closely to the leaders
of the Intel, you know, the various leaders that are out there,
they are not, you know, disregarding the whole situation. They're just being
quiet because they have to. They have to wait for the investigation to complete.
So for those who are saying I want to see bodies and I want
to see craft, we live in an unclassified world and there's no guarantee we're
ever going to be able to see classified stuff. But what we are going
to be able to do is get some sort of confirmation as to legitimacy of
what he's talking about. And and frankly, everything that I've read and heard
and seeing it leads me to believe that, you know, we have a
lot more that we're going to be experiencing in the not too disre future regards.
I hope so. And I I worry that, you know, and
maybe it's a false worry, but I worry that the umbrella of classified can
be overused in a situation. I do understand when it comes to national security
there are things that should not be out there because our adversaries, you know,
could use it against us. I understand that totally. But what I'm
afraid of is that, you know, we may end up knowing very little
of the classified part of this. If a firsthand windess comes forward, if
they can only speak in a classified environment, how are we going to get
that relayed to us? And by whom you know, I mean, would
it be through another hearing type of situation or you know, what are your
thoughts on that? Well? I think that we've been experiencing experience seeing it,
particularly within the last few years, by looking at what former elected officials
have been saying, by looking at the legislation that's being being passed or has
been passed, by the fact that investigations have been ongoing for years about this
issue, and the fact that you have a whistleblower that has come out,
the first but the first of many talking about some incredibly fantastical claims that are
fantastical because they challenge our worldview, They challenge our ideas about reality, about
physics, about science, about our origins, about so many different aspects that
it is a whole lot to sort of take in. And I understand the
resistance to that because when you say, oh, there's there's they exist,
well, then there are a bunch of other questions that follow, yes,
And that's what I think, you know, the Robertson panel in the fifties
and the Rand Corporation study and all the other things that have sort of paged
the public's ability to handle this information. I think that's where they were coming
from. Plus the fact that there was a Cold War going on and so
many different things that sort of helped prevent us from progressing as a society with
this understanding that there are more, there's more to the world than what would
we know now. It's simply more to the world than what we are allowed
to know. And so all that anger frustration should not be directed to whistleblowers,
should be directed to the rogue elements within government that have been keeping and
are keeping these secrets away from us and also secrets of crimes. Yes,
yes, and there's there's parallels there. So I'm just putting this up here
because it's just to find the listeners. So Jonathan Wagan coming up on September
five, So far to go, I've asked up. There's there's a lot
of people that are contacting me about this particular guest coming up, and all
I ask is that no one tried to reach him, respect his privacy,
and the last thing I want is for someone to contact him now and somehow
make him uneasy to do the interview, which is coming up, what in
a couple of weeks, right, Yeah, just like a couple of weeks.
So anyway, I'm really looking forward to that. That'll be an interesting
one. Anyone that's seen his old two thousand and one or three, whatever
it is interview will understand why I'm excited about that guest. Well, if
I may, Yeah, we look at you know, I'm very new to
this whole UFBO community, but very impassionate about it. There's so much documentation,
so many historical accounts, some pictures and videos, and it's online places
like UFBO b and ies on cinema where you can see police officers and others
who have had to deal with these incidents and encounters of all different types of
encounters from sightings to to abductions. But what we are doing is we are
simply looking at the tip of the iceberg because of the stigma, because there's
no infrastructure for report, no formal infrastructure. There of course voluntary efforts long
standing and heroic, but they are still not a part of the official record,
so we don't have data for scientists to review. And so out of
the numbers of instance that have occurred, I wouldn't think that there have been
many, many times that where people have been afraid to discuss it in both
on the military side and also in private private sector, just local communities afraid
to talk about these things because they see what happens to people who do talk
about it. That's right. And for that matter, we are seventy percent
as a world, We are seventy percent covered by water. People don't live
on seventy percent of the planet, so we have no idea of the frequency
encounter incidents that are occurring with our world with entities that are maybe coming from
other places, now the government does and you know, to extend that they're
able to tell the truth. And I think, I think that it's time
and I think frankly that not just the American public, but the world is
ready for acknowledgment of what they suspected and documented themselves over many generations. Yes,
yes, we're talking just a second ago there about how law enforcement.
I wanted to share this. This incident was also my good friendly Spiegel was
very much involved with this particular case. And it's really fast, fascinating.
This happened in Lumberton, North Carolina, and many people have heard Lee talk
about it, but this involved a lot. I think there was up to
thirty policemen when this encounter happened, and back in nineteen seventy five, and
a triangle UFO basically floated right over right over the group of them and then
shot this light beam down right in the middle of them. And yeah,
it was quite it's quite a story that blogs up on. We just reissued
that blog. Here's some paperwork on it. But check that out on podcast
UFO dot com as well. This it was just reposted last week. But
another interesting sighting and I would like to talk to you about you know,
historic police encounters. There's a lot of them. I'm sure you've looked into
them. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I did ask a website
YouTube UFO be if they could create a channel just for UFOs and police,
and they did. And right now there are twenty seven well known cases that
they placed everything from Zamora out in New Mexico to the Exeter, New Hampshire
incident, you know, all over the country, and they have not just
over the United States, but all over the Europe as well. The Belgium
case where you've got people multiple officers, that the two thousand Saint Clair County,
Illinois police siding case where they're chasing the thing over multiple counties here dispatch
handing off the job from one county to the other. And so it all
leads to this conclusion that there have been many encounters but for the from the
part of the government, they have not given first responders the tools, the
education, the training, the equipment that they would need in order to look
to prevent negative encounters. Referring so public safety being at the forefront of what
law enforcement and other first responders should do. That would mean that they,
you know, whatever the government knows and whatever equipment they have that can help
develop best practices for first responders that are answering the nine one one calls from
the general public to response to these incidents. We need to develop those practices
and policies and training and education as a country. It maybe be a model
for the rest of the world to allow officers to not just be victims when
they get to the scene and whatever the anonymous phenomena exists is happening, that
they then become the Stimpson as well. And you know, you go through
the historical record, you could see officers getting injured and killed. The George
Wheeler case in Pierce County, Wisconsin, nineteen seventy six, he got I
guess if you could call it or radiated. I think that car is still
that car still lives somewhere. And you're you're talking about the Val Johnson.
Oh, yes, you're right, I seventy nine, Marshall County, Minnesota.
Yeah, where he lost time, the whole thing, right, So,
we have documentation, We have evidence of the symptoms of this. We
have documentation of the physical injuries that individuals have had when they've encountered whatever it
is that they're encountered where there's an electromagnetic radiation or some other Mike what,
I don't know. I'm not a scientist, That's not my lane. I'm
just a first responder, public safety, emergency planner. And what I see
that should be the impetus of agencies like PHARMA, Homeland security and our law
enforcement leaders is what are we going to do now that we know that this
information exists? How are we going to help our first responders? Certainly we
can't continue stigma and ridicule and you know, basically having a psych exam perhaps
for those that are simply telling the truth with what they've encountered. Now,
let me ask you this, prior to twenty seventeen, did you give much
thought to the topic or if you did, did you kind of pass it
off as nothing? Never gave any any thought to the topic. And I
was going to all these places during the training again dug Way proving grounds to
the bio training and got a test side had not a clue as a matter
of fact, and train for a trained emergency's fronts responders in UH what they
call National Incident Management System i c S. It's a command system that taught
that to municipalities throughout the country, never even you know, gave it,
gave it affective thought that the company I worked for, sa C had some
sort of connection a possible connection to this, uh you know n HI and
and re engineering, uh you know technology not from this serve. You know,
it's certainly uh you know, this is in the nineteen nineties, two
thousand, rather two thousands into the early two thousand tens, so that all
those things, you know, I was just like everybody else, no interest,
not not really concerned. But now I am concerned because what I did
about two months ago, I was just an informal survey. I reached out
to all the state police and I just sent them emails inquiring, and also
the top five police departments of all the all the states and just ask them,
you know, what do you have in terms of policies or procedures dealing
with sightings or contacts or productions. And the answer was uniformly, no,
nothing. We don't have anything relevant to what you're speaking about. And that's
what I expected. And I only I got twenty five percent of spots,
but that's what I expected. Small agencies to large, they're they're not focused
on this and they may be waiting perhaps from direction and guidance from Homeland Security
or Defense Department that I think would be the logical thing for them to do.
But as far as I'm concerned, we need to, you know,
collectively start putting our heads together and thinking about how we can better address this
issue. And there are a couple of organizations that have developed to try and
deal with the issue. Uap med is new ap dash Med is one of
those agent organizations where they are trying to coalesce and get those in the medical
and mental health community to help better the resources and better the efforts of those
in that community to help deal with this issue. They don't provide you know,
medical or mental health services themselves, but they help to coordinate and get
those those efforts to help those who need those services to get that treatment that
they need. And I know that they have a web present to uap dash
med do med, and I know that they are also interested in getting those
in the medical and mental health community to to to work with them and to
to get some concrete best practices and have best to address the issues of of
everything contacts to those who have been abducted and how that that how that discipline,
how those disciplines can can more appropriately deal with those issues. And I
know Ted Brown, it's the person who founded that organization, also was instrumental
in starting aia HEY, which people know because of pilot Ryan Graves, who's
who's part of that. And they're they're again focused on public safety. You
know, folks are flying these planes, commercial flights, military flights, and
they're dealing with stuff they don't understand that their accounting and if they are not
any kind of you know, helpful feedback from those who are responsible for their
well being than they are, rightfully, they should rightfully be concerned and moving
to change that. Yeah. So I the other thing that that one of
there's an organization that started uap that that PD some individuals out in New Mexico,
officers in New Mexico who have created an organization to help officers who have
had encounters and they are absolutely not going to talk to their colleagues or to
you know, family members, or to anybody else about it because they're concerned
about the negative consequences of doing so. And so uap PD was set up
to help them tell their stories in a safe way that that does not will
not cause up any repercussions in a negative client. So those are those are
two really important efforts. But ultimately we're going to need those who are responsible
in in our government to create processes for reporting guidance for those stakeholders who are
responsible for responding to the general public to deal with those those issues. And
and and then we will have a way for scientists to get reliable data that
is that that is is transparent and in his uniform and covers not just certain
areas, but covers the entire country, and so that we can actually from
that data perhaps get some some headway. Now, I have heard it one
time that police stations all around the country were given uh, you know,
Moufon's phone number and also the one Pete and Davenport nightcap was given both of
those phone numbers. And you know, when I didn't know when I had
my encounter in two thousand and seven, I had no idea what to do.
And the first thing that I thought to do was I'm going to call
the police. I had no idea there was anything online or anything like that.
So when I called the police department and I said, this is non
emergency, but you know, there is this craft that just is flying right
now towards Monterey, and I want to know, do other people see it?
You know? And she said, what is it? I said,
well, it was a round disk, and you know, I guess it's
a UFO, I don't, you know. And so then she was totally
sarcastic, and she never said anything. She just put me on hold for
about twenty minutes and I finally hung up and gave up. And but so
that that was I would say probably a typical reaction. I would think a
police department or dispatcher me, uh, you know, treat someone like I'm
not sure. Well, let's look at what the guides are, directives they're
given. You know, the the National UFO Reporting Center started nineteen seventy four.
They've covered perhaps one hundred and fifty thousand sightings since that time. Calls
that they've gotten for the general public preferred to by nine one one dispatch as
well as law enforcement. But they don't go out to conduct investigations. They
don't have any ability or resources to do that. So they're making the call.
And where is it go. It's with Newport. And then you have
the PO Fond, which is start in nineteen sixty nine, and they do
have field investigators. They have the training program, four thousand active members,
six hundred field investorators, and they worked to to filter out, you know,
hoaxes from the calls that they get. But that is still a private
effort. And then then for pilots you have the National Aviation Reporting Center on
Anomalous Phenomena NARCAPS started nineteen ninety nine. Civilian Reporting Center focusing on aviation related
aps fits over. So you have those two major private efforts voluntary efforts,
and then and then you have also the NARCAP, which is the aviation version
of it. When FAG the guides that they have direct pilots to encounter any
kind of public safety issues or property damage from UAP encounters to contact the local
police department once they land. Now, I just told you my informed survey
shows that there's nothing that law enforcement has to deal with UAP encounters. And
so when you look at the private efforts, where do they connect to in
terms of government? And if there's no way for government to accurately account for
all of these incidents that are being reported, then how are we able to
get data that's reliable enough for scientists to work on and all that needs to
change and government and whatever capacity it's going to do it. I would probably
think home in security, but it may be some other agency or agencies where
they're able to get a reliable reporting system that includes utilizing the first responders that
utilize in the commercial and the military pilots. I know the mid Terius is
working on. You know, they've got their own reporting systems to putting together.
But all this has to be not just done in a formal way through
government oversight and control, but it has to be collected and then shared with
the general public, just as we do in crimes and for everything with the
FBI, uh you see are reporting system. We need to have similar types
of systems in place so we can understand the frequency of these events actually occur,
right because we don't don't we don't know, We have not a clue.
I bet you there's people in the government that are paying attention to this
that would just hope the whole thing would go away, you know somehow,
Like you mentioned the Robertson panel that was that effort back then. You know,
maybe there's uh, you know, we'll see what efforts are upcoming.
Here's a question for you as a doctor. Richard asked, as a detective,
do you think that visitors ever plant evidence to mislead UFO investigators? Interesting?
The real the real answer, the only answer I get as I have
not a clue, and it relates to what I just said about their not
being an official governmental accounting for these, uh, these encounters. But can
I say that all the thousands of thousands, tens of thousands of people,
the hundreds of thousands of reports that have occurred over less seventy decades, that
all of those individuals are making it up or having some sort of mental health
crisis or you know some other you know, seeing a perspec weather or the
loon or some other excuse. Certainly much in the air is can be explained
prosaic, but maybe nine percent of it or more. But that's not what
we're talking about. We're talking about that other percentage where you have like the
five observables. Yeah, and those are the things that our government, the
American government has already uh stated exists. So if you're looking for a disclosure
in a more formal way of having an elected leader come up to a podium
and saying, you know, well, they're out there and you know we've
had encounterable Yeah, that's that's fine, But you don't have to wait for
that. You already had Defense Department leadership statement through their through their encounters and
with Newspadia that that yes, they do exist. The reports that they've created
within the last few years had stated that there are things that exist. And
when I heard somebody say recently that I thought was really relevant was that we
don't have to say UAP unidentified. It simply that the government will not tell
us what they are. That they do know what they are, but they're
refusing to let us know, so they will call it unidentified. But whatever
these anomalous things are, And again I have not a clue. I'm just
a civilian activists like many out there maybe watching this, So I don't have
any more information than anyone else about UAP, but I have a lot of
information about law enforcements. And I think as we get more and more people
from the very disappointments that historically have created a lot of stigma around the pursuit
of this topic, as long as as we have more and more credible people
coming out and stating that this is something that we need to focus on as
a society. I think it's going to see break away at that wall of
stigma that does not allow many people in this country to seriously consider even talking
about Yeah, and I know this is the casement of the family members,
friends. I don't talk to them about unless they ask because of this stigma
that exists where you know, they will not understand what I'm saying, or
they think that I'm joking or that it's some sort of craziness. Yeah,
so it is what it is. Right In my professional world, I have
as a as a fine art appraiser, antiques appraiser, something like that,
or very I always try to be professional and be careful about talking about this
subject. But I know I sent you a text today about how this happened.
Last week. I was in a house down on Cape Cod and the
woman had some beautiful artwork. Plus she had some really unusual glass She's an
artist herself and did these glass sculptures that were fantastic, And all of a
sudden, she says to me, you know, I think if aliens are
visiting us, they're going to think these glass sculptures are interesting. So it
kind of opened the door for me to I said, it's funny you should
say that. Did you hear about the hearing that happened recently? She goes,
I watched the whole thing. I was glued to my seat, and
I said, I was there. It's all you know, we got to
do this great conversation. Now, she's a mathematician that I worked consulting through
all these companies, A brilliant, brilliant lady. And her husband is also
and they both were very intrigued. And I think it's a great time because
these people in all walks of life and all types of jobs that they did
or do or whatever, all are taking a look. Now it's getting you
know, if anything, you know, if everything else fails, at least
we have people paying attention to it. Well, what we really need to
pay attention to collectively our efforts to dissuade us or divert us from talking about
this issue. I am concerned that those same rogue elements and government and private
industry that are responsible for us getting to this point of not knowing much or
if anything about this, that they're still pretty much doing what they're doing.
And when I saw what happened with mister grush gushing brush regarding the police reports,
specific police reports. Certainly they were quote unte publicly available, but there
was some a little help from you know, folks within I see or do
D to help guide that reporter to that those specific you know documents, Yeah,
those specific dates and places, because supposedly the name would have been redacted,
they wouldn't have availability to that, so they had to know the incidents.
And I don't even think it was too embarrass because he had already warned
in the hearing that it was going to happen. What I think and what
most people you know, rationally speaking with it, is that it's a message
to any future whistleblowers to discourage them. That's what That's the very very very
first thing I said. I said, this has one goal, and that
is to discourage anyone else from coming forward. When I first saw that and
that, I felt that all along. I sent that out to Ross Colhart
immediately and Bryce Sable, and it's just my thoughts, you know, what
I do for folks that are not ready to talk about non human intelligence,
don't think about it. Just think about it as a big scandal for involving
a lot of money and rogue program program ye spending Congress wasn't even aware of.
And so that's like government going wrong. And so if you think of
it as a big scandal and don't think about that non human intelligence, and
you're not going to be affective when people trying to distract you talking about little
green man, right, or surveying their their constituents about do you think that,
you know, looking into little green men as a waste of time?
No, forget that. Just follow the money. That's what's exactly right.
I should be worried about. That's what they'll get where they'll get there answers
the time flew by, I knew it would. Thank you so much.
It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Hope to have you back one
day. Thank you. I'm looking to take care of all right, all
right everyone, So we'll be back next week. And I don't know who
I'm going to be at the mouf On Symposium. I'm going to pick someone
out and do a show, or a couple of people out and do a
show together. We'll see what happens. So we'll see you then next week.
Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.