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Hello, and welcome to Open minds
UFO Radio. That's right, we are

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back. I am back from doing
conferences and having trips and all that for

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good stuff. Although I'm gonna have
some trips coming up, but we'll talk

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more about that later. And I'm
gonna bring you along virtually. But my

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name, if you were unaware,
and this is maybe the first time you've

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heard the show, is Alejandro Rojas. And I am here with my buddy

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Martin, and he's the one who
came up with his nickname today Martin Downer.

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Willis well, for those first time
listeners, I'm not always a downer.

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Yeah that's true. Yeah, you're
not always a downer. But then

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the reason why I'm calling him that
is because before we started the show,

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you know, we're talking about the
hurricanes, because I had seen some hurricane

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damage on my trip and all of
that, and he's talking about the weather's

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not going to get better, how
we're all screwed, and that's miss Sunshine.

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Yeah, that reminds me. You'll
love this story. So Linda Howe

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was at the conference and she's got
some interesting perspectives and a friend of ours,

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one of our volunteers, I just
this last weekend. She's great Mary

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Anne rob lover to death. She's
actually a police officer here in Gilbert but

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she spent some time with Linda Howe
and she was like, she would say,

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she was crying. She was going
to get out of the UFO field.

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She was so freaked out because Linda
how told her that, you know,

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remote viewers are seeing floods and devastation
and we're all screwed by twenty twenty,

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we're gonna be all dead. And
she was freaked out. So I

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was like, wow, you know, we were all like, chill out.

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Chill doesn't mean that's really gonna happen, and she's over it. But

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I guess she got really freaked out
by listening to Linda how Well, you

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know there's been doomsdays around since Day
number one, you know, doomsdayers.

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Yeah so, but you know,
I don't know about the remote viewing.

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How can you see into the future
of the remote remote viewing? Yeah,

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you know, and one of the
key tenants that you know, I read

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a lot of the remote viewing books
and one of the main guys, mcmonagall

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is his name, and he wrote
over and over again and some of the

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others that you have to have verifiable
data. Like, it's no good if

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you don't have verifiable data. So
really most of their remote viewing was remote

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viewing stuff they can verify so they
can determine how accurate they were. And

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the best remote viewers were twenty percent
accurate. And so what that means is

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when they're remote viewing an unknown you
know, if they're a good remote viewer,

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then you would know that maybe twenty
percent of the information is something you

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can do something with. So let's
say they give you ten leads, you

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know, only two of those of
work. But like John Alexander pointed out

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when I interviewed him about this once, was that's better than nothing. If

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you're looking at a cold case and
you've got nothing, even you know,

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a couple some leads to actually follow
up even if can be helpful. So

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that's what's interesting about it. Still, if you're not honing your practice,

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as they put it, you know, and getting feedback, and that was

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the most important thing. It's getting
feedback as to your accuracy accuracy, then

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you know your your skill is going
to deplete it's and you're not going to

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know how accurate you are. So
I mean, yeah, twenty percent best

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when people are remote viewing all of
this really wild and crazy stuff. I

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think people have to keep that in
mind. It you know, the best

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remote viewers for twenty percent accurate,
So that means only twenty percent of the

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Earth's population. Wal Yeah, good
point. Wow. Yeah, that's the

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way to look at the glass half
full right there, right, mister sunshine

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or yeah, your new nickname is
mister Sunshine today, although you've been stuck

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in the snow out there in the
cold. Yeah, yeah, we had

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We have about three feet still here
in Maine. It was last week we

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got clobbered. We had to I
think three nor'easters in three weeks. Oh

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my gosh, I've heard it about
that wildness that people have been experiencing.

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Yeah, you've keep threatening to move
to Arizona. I think that perhaps you

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should. It was in the forties
last night, which is pretty chilly for

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out here, and it is a
little bit chilly now. I think it's

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around seventy degrees sunny, so it's
pretty nice. It really is. So

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moving on my guest for today,
and this guest is going to be my

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guest several times in the next few
months, and I hope you'll be happy

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about that. I am. And
that guest is Stanton Friedman. So Stan

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Friedman I have on tonight. If
you're not aware of who he is,

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he was a nuclear nuclear sometimes I
say nuclear that damn George Bush taught me

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that, and I can't get over
it. The library, Yeah, that's

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a couple of terms that I screw
up. Like I always say, berry,

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That one I'm never going to be
able to get rid of. It's

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always going to be a library to
me. Plus that sounds nice. It

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reminds me of like a blueberry or
something delicious like that. But gues Stanton,

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we're going to have. He used
to be a nuclear physicist and kind

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of turned ufologists. So and he's
been doing this for decades. When I

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started in the UFO field, or
at least looking into it, he was

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the guy. He was the guy
you saw on TV. He was the

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go to guy to be interviewed.
He was mister UFO. This is before

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you know Richard Dolan or Nick Pope
or any of these people. It was

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he was the face of eufology.
So we'll talk about that somewhat, especially

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when there was a lull, you
know, especially in the eighties, nineties,

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it wasn't taken as seriously. It
was always you know, when it

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was presented. It was also debunked
at the end. It wasn't really taken

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for what it was. So things
have changed a lot. That's what I

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wanted to talk to San Friedman about. But actually we I also wanted to

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talk about how he got started and
what it was like, you know,

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being that one guy out there,
or you know, when at least some

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of the very well known historic figures
in this field, like doctor j Allen

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Heineke who was an astronomy professor and
worked on Project Blue Book, or uh

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Donald Kehoe who started the group NCAP. He was a retired Marine officer and

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worked with a lot of military people
looking into UFOs, some of the people

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he knew who have since passed away. So we talk a lot about that

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and it's really interesting. But in
upcoming interviews, I want to talk to

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him more about how things have changed, the state of things today and his

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thoughts on that and why is it
so important to talk to him right now?

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Now? You're the news guy,
I think you know, are you

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talking to me? Yeah? Well
this is one of those awkward no,

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why it's so important that I talked
to him right now. We get these

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because you know he's not going to
stay in this forever. Well, oh

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well, you might not know he's
he's saying he's he's retiring. I do.

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That's what I meant. Yeah,
I did. That's what he said

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when I saw him out in Phoenix. He said he was going to be

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retiring. So yeah, and I
guess he's been telling people this on interviews

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as well. So and so,
you know, he told us that at

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the at the Congress, but then
I've heard from other people too that now

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he's out there saying that. So
and he's very serious about it. So

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we talked about him retiring here.
He's going to be eighty four or eighty

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five, he yeah, says in
the interview. And I've already forgotten which

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one it is, but uh,
yeah, he feels it's time that he

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retire. And you know, you
can there's a big difference from when I

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first met him to these days,
you know, as far as physically his

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ability to get around. He says
his mind has kind of gotten a little

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less sharp, but you wouldn't know
it. You wouldn't know it. I

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would never know it. He's still
he's still really to me, he still

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really has it. Does he talk
about when how he very first got into

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what made him get into the UFO
subject. I love that he does about

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the book. Yeah. No,
he didn't tell me about a book.

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It was something else. Oh okay, do you want me to say what

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he told me once on an interview? Yeah, that'd be great. Okay.

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So he was ordering some books from
some type of school or library or

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something like that, and so he
got he would get free shipping if he

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ordered an extra book, and so
he just kind of went to a book

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and it said UFO on it,
and he just like, that's I'll just

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order that. So he filled it
in and sent it away for it,

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and he got the UFO book and
he was very very fascinated by it.

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And that's really how he said to
me how he actually got started and looking

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at the UFO topic. Do you
remember what book it was? No,

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but he said he was saying it
was because he was too cheap. He

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says, I'm cheap and that's why
I did it And look where it led

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me. That's really funny. Yeah, that's interesting. So, yeah,

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he's led an interesting life and I
think, hands down, you know Lise

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Spiegel's on the show a lot,
a journalist, and he's written a lot

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about UFOs and he and I were
talking the other day and he brought this

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up, and I think he's right
that, hands down, Stan Freedman has

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done more lectures on this topic than
probably anybody in history, right, and

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and the second place person would probably
be way way behind, maybe has done

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half as much, something like six
or seven hundred colleges. Yeah, things

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like that or amaz. We talk
about that in this interview too, and

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why that is and how that happened, and so I think it's really insightful

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and interesting. Yeah, he talks
about his hecklers. He's only had a

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few. Yep, he often talks
about his hecklers. But yes, we

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do talk about that as well.
So fun stuff. Yeah, So a

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great interview. I love this interview, and we'll have more with Santon coming

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up as time goes on, and
especially to talk about some of the incredible

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things that are happening lately that are
really interesting. So why don't we get

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into that. Let's get into the
UFO news with Martin Willis Downer. Willis,

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all right, Well, I want
to talk about a wonderful blog that

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was written by one of my favorite
people in the UFO field, Linda Zimmerman,

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and the to this is Saint Patrick's
Day UFOs, and some of you

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may actually still be hungover from Saint
Patrick's Day. So it starts in two

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thousand and six. She goes back
and looks through time on Saint Patrick's Day,

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and then she actually says, why, you know, they're not too

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many reports in the month of March
in general. You know, there are

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like in warmer places, but around
the country. So in two thousand and

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six, the police in Nehuett I
don't know exactly how you pronounced that,

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New York assumed that there was a
high volume McCalls reporting UFOs was just a

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result of too much party in partying
on this festive day. But there were

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some sober people that were calling in
and witnesses to uh basically a mass sighting.

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And this was Saint Patrick's Day in
the Hudson Valley in New York.

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Actually that was thirty five years earlier. There was one on Saint Patrick's Day

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that she refers to in the Hudson
Valley. But so she speculates, well,

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you know, perhaps it's test flights
of exotic aircraft on March seventeenth,

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realizing that eyewitness reports would be deemed
unreliable. She's saying that kind of as

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a joke on Saint Patrick's Day,
or ets actually know our drinking habits.

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But anyway, so she goes back
into the Newfork database and it becomes evident

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that historically March isn't active. But
there are some cases on Saint Patrick's Day,

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going back to nineteen sixty nine and
Odessa, Washington, there was a

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brilliant metallic, glowing dis shaped craft
with red and blue lights and a circle

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on the bottom and was seen by
over a dozen witnesses and so back I'll

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see when was this exactly. There
was one right on eighty four New York

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and New York and Western Connecticut.
They saw a massive football size like a

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silent craft hovering and moving extremely slowly. And I don't really see the date

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on that particular one. It doesn't
really show the date on that one.

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But this is just going back looking
at all of these different sightings that actually

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happened on Saint Patrick's Day. And
there was another one in nineteen eighty eight,

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and it was very similar to another
one in nineteen sixty nine. The

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sketches on in the blog itself,
and you'll see this weird sketch of this

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polygon shaped item with green lights all
the way around it. So anyway fitting,

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isn't it had green lights on Saint
Patrick's Day? Yeah, So anyway,

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there's a lot of them. Nineteen
eighty three, again, nineteen eighty

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eight, sixty nine, all on
Saint Patrick's Day. One was a boomerang

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shaped, one was egg shaped,
and this polygon shape one. There's a

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picture drawn sketch by the artists.
Yeah. Great article that she wrote for

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Openminds dot tv, and it's got
tons of likes and stuff. But Linda

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Zimmerman's wonderful. We're so lucky to
have her to contribute. And it was

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kind of interesting because she sent me
a few pictures to include in the article,

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and she was like, you know, a couple of these, I

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don't know where they come from,
so I'm not sure if you can use

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them. And I'm very careful about
making sure I know where the pictures are

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come from so I can credit the
source and make sure that it's okay if

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I have any indication that this person, you know, these people don't want

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their pictures to be shared elsewhere,
even with credit, then I won't do

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it. But it turned out these
were Michael Schratz and yeah so and Michael

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Shratt. He did these probably while
he was working with Open Minds. And

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Michael Shratt is excellent, I mean
at these graphics. He does the coolest

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graphics for historical sightings, and he
is always very cool about sharing his pictures.

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So you know, now, doesn't
he doesn't. He typically go along

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the lines that these are military.
Yeah, I mean he feels that a

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lot of these seem to be military. I think even this one, he

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felt there's people witnesses kind of described
an inner kind of structure, beams and

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stuff, and so he does feel
that it's possible and makes the argument that

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it's possible that some of these could
be you know, black projects and stuff.

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So yeah, it's funny, it's
interesting. He's funny feel about that.

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I mean, do you feel like
we could actually have a crowd often

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to have had it for for a
decade or two, that could hover slowly?

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I thought any sound highly highly unlikely. But of course the idea that

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an extraterrestrial civilization created something and is
flying around is also you know, I

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think arguably unlikely. So even though
that that's a long shot, either one

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is a bit of a long shot, So who knows. I think that

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you just can't completely rule it out, just like you can't rule out that

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it could be possibly a craft from
the future or something. You know.

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The last guest I had on is
one hundred percent, well, his thoughts

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are one hundred percent that they're interdimensional. Interesting, you know, I mean,

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I think if anyone has their thoughts
that it's just one anything, it's

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most likely they're going to be wrong. Yeah, you know, yeah,

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I agree, because there's so many
possibilities and it's it's impossible to rule out

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many of these, and you know, the one from the future is kind

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of cool. I was watching this
interview just yesterday with Neil de grasse Tyson

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essentially doing showing parts of an interview
he did with Stephen Hawking, who,

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of course people probably know passed away
just in the last few days and an

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incredible thinker of course, and he
had Mitchell Okaku on. He had different

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guests on where they would show one
of the questions and answers from Hawking,

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and then he had this panel that
he would talk to and they were talking

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about the possibility of people coming from
the future, and he asked Hawking,

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is it possible people are coming from
the future. He says, yeah,

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it's possible, but if it happened, if it's if it is possible,

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we probably would have met someone from
the future already. And I love that

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answer because I was to people,
do you believe it's possible that people that

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one day will travel in time?
And if they say yes, then I

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say, well, that answer also
then probably indicates that that would mean it.

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It's you would believe it's possible there's
someone from the future here right now.

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So Hockey is going there where It's
like, if you believe in time

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travel, then you know that you're
you're believing that you know there probably are

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time travelers here now, and so
I think it's an interesting thought because then

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they started to discuss how it could
be possible, and Mitchie Okaku then brought

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in the type two type three civilizations, this idea of extraterrestrial civilizations that have

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advanced technology, and he talked about
how it would need to be a more

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advanced species that could have this something
called negative energy, which that's when he

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lost me. I couldn't understand it, and even Neil deGrasse Tyson said he

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had a hard time understanding what the
heck negative is energy was. But I

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guess it's something that you need to
have in order to do time travel,

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which would be possible. But then
Mitchie Okoku talked about how if you do

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go back in time, essentially you're
creating a new timeline and that's a different

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dimension, and it gets really weird. Well, I also, you know,

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like if we had the technology,
say now, to time travel,

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and we were going to go back
in time, you know, I think

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the caution would be, you know, don't change anything. So by changing

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something, does that mean actually you
create another timeline anyone, It's impossible to

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change the past. So if you
do something different in the past, you

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haven't changed your previous past. You
have created a new dimension, a new

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timeline, or at least you're now
on a different timeline. So weird stuff

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that is weird. We've only got
a couple of minutes left, and of

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course I'm sure people want to know
about the big news, some of the

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big news that happened, which is
the A third video dropped from the Two

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Stars uh from the d O d
and there has been a lot of question

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around this. Of course, my
last podcast was the interview with Louise Elisondo

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from the twenty eighteen International IFO Congress, and the question is is and and

256
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so it's another interesting video where the
pilots are obviously baffled by what they're looking

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at and and what's interesting though is
that, you know, again there's not

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very much information that comes along with
the video. So it's the video alone

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with just talking about, you know, kind of the equipment, also the

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you know, the the raytheon kind
of equipment that that taped this thing,

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but also talking about uh, you
know they name this thing to go Fast,

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and a little bit of background,
but not really it says dates and

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times were not included at all.
However, this video was released in conjunction

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with a Washington Post article written by
Chris Mellen, who you're one of the

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few people who's had him on your
shows at right, and and he,

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as part of this to the Stars, worked for the CIA and then THEDIA

267
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and all all of these different groups, consultant for the Congress and intelligence and

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in his article he's essentially just saying, hey, these incidents are happening.

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The DoD is not taking this seriously, and they should. But he does

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give a little bit more information about
this video. So he had some information

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about it, and I'm trying to
find what he said. Do you remember,

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No, I do know about this
particular footage, though, I was

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contacted by a pilot that said he's
actually seen this footage before and didn't think

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it was ever classified. Oh really, yes, I'm just looking for that

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myself right now. Undisclosed navy encounter
that occurred off the East coast in twenty

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fifteen. This is when it was
supposed to happen in twenty fifteen. Yeah,

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the new video happened off the East
coast in twenty fifteen, which is

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more information than what was shared by
the To the Stars Academy. So it's

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another video. It's created another news
cycle where you know, Alexander has been

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interviewed again by Fox News, CNN, ABC News have done some stuff.

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I know Chris Mellan was interviewed I
think by it was it ABC or MSN.

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He did an interview anyway on this
as well. So yeah, there's

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been it created some more news.
But of course some people are asking when

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are we going to find out more
information. Why don't we have more information?

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And we've heard a little bit about
Lou Louise on that who goes by

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Lou. But luckily I'm going to
have a chance to hang out with him

287
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:10.359
and another the week week and a
half, and so we'll get answers.

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I mean, soon we'll be able
to be able to hear from him directly,

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and hopefully it won't be too long
till I have him on this podcast

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and that we're able to do some
more on that. Does he live on

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the West Coast? He currently is
on the East Coast, moving to the

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West coast. Oh, I see, but we're out of time. We're

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out of time. Yep. That's
it for the news. Thank you so

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much for joining us. Martin.
That's a down Yeah, okay, we'll

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have Stanton coming up next. For
those of you listening to the podcast,

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00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.359
you'll hear a short musical interlude.
For the rest of you, you'll hear

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00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.880
if you're listening on kg are A
some commercials. But stay tuned. We'll

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be right back with Stanton Friedman.
I am very happy to have back to

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the show a good friend and certainly
a mentor and someone i've looked up to

300
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:29.480
for a very long time. Stanton
Friedman, Hello, good afternoon from beautiful

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frederickon Brunswick, which has many feet
of snow on the ground. No,

302
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.839
no, yeah, I'm sure you
missed that, but yeah, not at

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all. And you are You're northeast. You're more northeast than the whole United

304
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States. I think you're in a
time zone that's similar to Puerto Rico,

305
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.319
way out there on the East.
I'm in the Atlantic time zone. Yes,

306
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I'm east of Maine. Chili chili
out there. Luckily I'm not.

307
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:02.079
Yeah, it was ten degrees this
morning, so you must enjoy and we

308
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:06.680
certainly enjoy for the last few years, even if you don't talk. You

309
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:14.680
coming to the UFO Congress where it's
nice and warm and Phoenix. Yeah,

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00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.640
so it's been really cool to have
you there too, I mean the media

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warm, Yeah, really warm.
Good one. So, and that reminds

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00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:30.640
me because one of the things that
we discovered when you were started coming every

313
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.960
year to the conference was that the
media loves you. And this is a

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00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.480
story. I'm not sure I told
you this story many years ago, and

315
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.880
I'll probably tell that a lot now
that we're talking about you know, we're

316
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.200
reminiscing on Stanton stories and will be
probably for some time, and we'll talk

317
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:52.039
about why. But when move On
first sat their symposium in Denver and I

318
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.000
was helping out with it. With
that, the media had cold and I

319
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.200
talked to this guy with CBS,
and you know, it's hard enough,

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00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.440
especially back and I think this was
well, this was probably early two thousands,

321
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.240
but the media wasn't as friendly as
they are today to this topic.

322
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.960
And the CBS guy said, well, I'd love to talk to someone.

323
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.759
It'd be great if I could talk
to Stanton. And I said sure,

324
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.920
I couldn't arrange you to talk to
Stanton and he said really, And I

325
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.279
was like, yeah, he's like
Stan Freeman. I could talk to Stan

326
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.200
Freeman. And the guy was so
excited to talk to you because he had

327
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.480
seen you on TV so much,
and it was kind of for me,

328
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.960
it was an important moment. It
kind of was hopeful that hey, we

329
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.640
can gain some ground with the media
and some people do pay attention. And

330
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.480
it was the first time I really
experienced a media person being so excited about,

331
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.240
you know, talking to someone in
this field. Well, I appreciate

332
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:55.519
the story, you know. I
got started on the media aspect of this.

333
00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:00.920
Almost by accident, I called.
I was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

334
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:06.480
working for Westinghouse Aster Nuclear Lab on
nuclear rockets, one of my many canceled

335
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:15.480
government sponsored programs, and I was
wanted to get on the local talk show

336
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.839
on katie Ka big station in town. The show was called Contact a Great

337
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:26.160
Name, and I called Frank Edwards
had given me their name and the name

338
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.359
of their producer, and it was
and I told him, you know,

339
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.400
ass nuclear physicist, Westinghouse, big
thing in Pittsburgh. It's over. Then

340
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:41.680
he was singirely unimpressed. Don't call
us, We'll call you. And less

341
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.039
than a month later I get to
call at six point thirty could I please

342
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:51.799
do the show at seven o'clock.
Somebody had canceled it till last minute and

343
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:53.599
I had to be there in person, so I lived not far from the

344
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:59.079
station, but and I it turns
out I said yes, And that was

345
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:04.960
my first appear pearance on the media
about UFOs, and that led to my

346
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:11.680
first lecture. Somebody at heard me
on this show, and which I didn't

347
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.400
do as great a job as I
usually to be, because frankly, I

348
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:21.000
had a lot of experience at dealing
with nasty, noisy negativists and people like

349
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:25.559
that. And somebody at work heard
me on the show asked if I would

350
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:29.440
speak to her book review club,
which was reading Frank's book Flying Saucers.

351
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:37.880
Serious business. That tells you how
long ago this was, obviously, and

352
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:45.599
that was that was my first show, that radio show, and she had

353
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:52.000
heard me. She asked me to
speak. I said yes. I was

354
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:59.599
driving to work one of two times
in three years with somebody who was a

355
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:04.680
PA, a supervisor at Westinghouse,
a woman, and we were talking I

356
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.680
I'd love to speak at Carnegie Mellon
University, you know, big school and

357
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:15.880
all that sort of thing. And
oh, her husband was the director of

358
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.319
student activities, as it happens,
and I had called there and talked to

359
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.279
somebody who wasn't interested. She said, well, Stan, he's heard you

360
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.759
on the radio. Give him a
call, and so I did, and

361
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.160
we booked a lecture and that was
my first talk, and there was a

362
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.119
peculiar aspect when we finished. We
set a date, but it was in

363
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.119
the afternoon, so I'd have to
take some time off work. I was

364
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:42.160
still working at Westinghouse. And he
asked how much do you want, And

365
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:47.279
I said, oh, how about
one hundred dollars? I thought he knocked

366
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.839
me down to fifty. Well,
Jean, now that'd be fine. So

367
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.960
he booked it. Many told me
what he was because I knew his wife,

368
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.880
but he was paying the other speakers
in the series fifteen hundred and seventy.

369
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.720
Well, it was an introduction to
the big time. And the talk

370
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:11.000
went so well he called the agent
through whom he had booked these expensive people,

371
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:17.079
and they booked me at a very
important talk for me, the Engineering

372
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:23.680
Society of Detroit, a very respectable
organization, and he booked me at three

373
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:29.640
hundred bucks and expenses. I'm in
a big time here, and that talk

374
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:34.720
made an impression on me because I'm
a young guy still a long time ago.

375
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.759
They were sold out two weeks in
advance for one thousand and eight people

376
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:47.440
for dinner and the talk. Wow, and there wasn't one nasty question.

377
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.119
Wow. I was impressed, frankly, because I had to respect these people,

378
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:57.960
you know. And then a few
more talks like that. Somehow the

379
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:04.960
word got around. A colleague at
Los Alamos since called me up, and

380
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:08.440
we hadn't talked about UFOs. We
were in radiation shooting for nuclear rockets.

381
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:15.119
Stan, I understand you've given lectures
about UFOs. Yeah, how about speaking

382
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.200
to a local section of the American
nuclear society. Oh, I'd be delighted.

383
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.799
No, I mean on an expense
account, Stan, Oh, well,

384
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.839
I'll have to ask management about that. I don't make those decisions.

385
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.200
And I did and they said,
yes, they paid for me to go

386
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:36.759
from Pittsburgh to Los Alamos, New
Mexico, to give a lecture. Flying

387
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.680
saucers are real, believe it or
not. And there were over four hundred

388
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:46.279
people at the lecture. And about
what time was that you mean when in

389
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:57.319
years? Yeah, Oh, I
would say early it was in the early

390
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:02.559
seventies. I'd say, okay,
wow, interesting, So it was,

391
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.960
and they're probably I mean it was
probably at that point I'm assuming, and

392
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:15.279
this is my question pretty untouched ground. I mean, uh, Heinich was

393
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:22.039
out there, I guess during that
time time the time John and keyho.

394
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:29.000
Yes. But otherwise that which is
only a handful compared to today, where

395
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.400
there's you know, dozens of people
out there trying to talk about this.

396
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:38.279
So and not only that, you're
very witty, I mean you're great at

397
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:44.160
interviews and for instance, not to
disparage him, because I'm a big fan

398
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.279
of Heineck. I'm sure you are
too, but I've heard his lectures were

399
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:52.039
very dry and boring. They were
fairly dry. Yes, Alan could have

400
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:59.200
a sense of humor, but he
was he was so wary of the attacks

401
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:04.160
of the astronomical community. And as
a matter of fact, I introduced him.

402
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:09.039
I arranged for a talk in LA
and I introduced him, and then

403
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:21.079
he had an official introduction from the
chairman of the astronomy Department at UCLA,

404
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:27.079
and he said very bad things,
not about Allen, but about the subject.

405
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:32.639
And I was so disappointed because I
wouldn't let anybody get away with that

406
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.360
because it was obviously didn't know much
about the subject. But yeah, it's

407
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:42.760
been a long haul, seven hundred
lectures or so since that time. And

408
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:49.679
look, I am grateful in my
old age and having had the opportunity to

409
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.760
speak in all fifty states, ten
provinces, nineteen other countries be a ufologist

410
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:01.679
see the world. I hope you
don't get introduced as a eufoologist, of

411
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:07.679
course, but yeah, has that
happened. That's the first time I've heard

412
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.880
that term. But it's a good
term. No, It hasn't happened to

413
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.159
me. I don't know about other
people, but yeah, I'm you know,

414
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:22.559
I'm fortunate in a way. I
was in high school debating way back,

415
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:24.440
a long time ago in Lynden,
New Jersey. We had a state

416
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:37.679
championship debating team. And the only
reason I got off into lecturing is I

417
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.559
was a member of the debating society
and we didn't want to state championship.

418
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:45.519
And there was a battle between the
professor, this teacher who handled that and

419
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:52.239
the principal of the school, and
they canceled debating my last year, my

420
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.440
senior year, and so I had
to do something. So that's when I

421
00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:07.559
got into the uh there was a
debate club and so forth, and so

422
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:09.920
what am I going to do?
I can't debate? Okay. I went

423
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:16.599
out for two plays, and I
am so grateful and I had the opportunity

424
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:22.400
to be on to be an actor, so to speak. First place was

425
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:27.880
a minor part. Second, would
you believe? I played a priest with

426
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:30.440
gray hair, and I thought,
gee, my dad had been bald since

427
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:35.719
I was twenty four, So I
figured, now I know what I'll look

428
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:40.280
like when I'm if I had gray
hair. Well, I never got bald

429
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:47.159
and I'm glad so, but that
was my accident, you know. And

430
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:52.920
what's unique though about kind of your
career I think also is that for what

431
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:58.480
you started talking, it seemed that, you know, people liked you,

432
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.239
and it's thought you were and entertaining
an f way you did. You know,

433
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.079
you did a lot of media interviews, and it seems at least when

434
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.679
I started getting into this, and
like the nineties, when I was,

435
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:15.679
you know, a big kid myself, there you were like one of the

436
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.199
only guys. You were the only
real scientists out there. You were one

437
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.960
of that. You were like the
face of uphology. For it seems for

438
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:30.400
many, many many years. Well
there's some truth to that. And let's

439
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:35.719
let's face it. I did mailings
to colleges once I found out look,

440
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.159
I thought I had the world's greatest
job. I got an offer from McDonald

441
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:43.599
douglas when I was looking for a
job after I got laid off on the

442
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:47.519
nuclear rocket program and we had a
successful test in Los Alamos and Urge.

443
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:52.199
It had successful test, so they
canceled the program. Don't explain that to

444
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.079
me because I don't see any But
anyway, I'm looking around for a job.

445
00:37:55.159 --> 00:38:00.440
I got a great job offer from
Bob Wood at McDonald douglas. My

446
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:06.960
job was going to be to figure
out how flying saucers worked. Wow.

447
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:12.559
I was very excited and driving across
the country, I was very disappointed here

448
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.920
in the radio that the program that
was going to support me was canceled.

449
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:19.960
How'd you like to walk in for
your first day on a job and they

450
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:25.360
say, you realize we just laid
off five thousand people demand orbiting laboratory program.

451
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:29.719
Yeah. I realized that they kept
me for three months. But that's

452
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.760
when I determined that they let me
do whatever I wanted. And I was

453
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:37.480
decided. I got a family to
support. So I got on the phone

454
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.599
and started calling colleges. And you
know, because of the two hour time

455
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.639
difference, I'm a cheap skate and
you can call between eight and between six

456
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:52.119
and eight in the morning California time
for back East, you know. And

457
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:53.679
so I did that and I got
a few lectures, and then I did

458
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:59.719
mailings. I was doing mailings to
a thousand colleges at once out of work.

459
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:01.880
But if you're going to do it, you better do it, you

460
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.920
know. And I found that you're
right. I was the only one on

461
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:14.199
the circuit really that the student activities
people had ever heard of. And I

462
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.719
did something else, and this applies
in a lot of other fields. But

463
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:22.159
after we had a very successful lecture, I asked him to send me a

464
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:28.920
letter, you know, indicating how
well received a lecture was and things like

465
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:30.079
that. And I got a lot
of those letters, and I sent copies

466
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:37.480
of those letters, and I did
my next mail out. So you can't

467
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.079
hide your light under a bushel.
Nobody ever accused me of that. You

468
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:45.800
understood, Yes, well, and
it's been important because you got out there.

469
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.000
Like you said, they didn't know
about this topic. You know who

470
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:55.400
else does this is Robert Hastings because
when I was in school, and you

471
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:59.760
know, my cousin was in school, we would get those and sometimes they

472
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.679
would come to us because we were
part of these paranormal groups and say,

473
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.719
hey, who is this guy?
Is this someone that we should have come

474
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.880
to the college. And good.
It's great that he does that too,

475
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.199
because he's excellent. You know,
his work is wonderful and he's getting out

476
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:22.519
there to people outside of this UFO
community circle. He's getting to the masses

477
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:28.119
like you were doing way back when
before him. He does a good job

478
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.320
and I've been proud to say good
things about it when people have asked me.

479
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:36.639
And it's not a question of rivalry. It's a question that we're both

480
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:42.400
on the same team trying to educate
the world. After all, there are

481
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:46.119
some nasty, noisy negativists, as
I call them, when I'm being played

482
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:55.519
they saying newsman, fossilized businesses.
But I'm not totallying, and pr is

483
00:40:55.559 --> 00:41:00.199
an important part of the world.
Like it or not. I mean,

484
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:04.840
maybe that's not the way it should
be. Everything should be determined by publications

485
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:08.119
and scientific journals, blah blah blah, but the world doesn't work that way.

486
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.079
And you know, I was wary
when I started lecturing in the mid

487
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:21.079
sixties that somebody's going to give me
such a hard time I'll never want to

488
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:24.960
speak again. And so I tried
to think of all the objections and answer

489
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:30.280
them in my lecture. And I
remember speaking to sections of the American Institute

490
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:35.880
of Aeronautics and Astronautics. Now I'm
a member AIAA, and I was wary

491
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:37.719
when I first got out there,
Who's going to give me a hard time?

492
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:44.079
And I was greatly pleased that and
over seven hundred lectures. I've only

493
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:47.840
had eleven hecklers, and two of
them were drunk. I haven't had one

494
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:52.719
of them in a long time.
So there's a moral to this story,

495
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:58.199
that is, if you stick to
the facts, if you recognize your audience

496
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.840
as being respectable, responce, and
you use the tools of logic and science

497
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:07.800
and data, and a little humor
may be thrown in, you can get

498
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:14.159
through. And I've spoken to lots
of technical groups. I think was that

499
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.760
Engineering Society of Detroit. I spoke
to several sections of the American Institute of

500
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:24.320
Aeronautics and Astronautics, several sections of
the National Management Association, management clubs for

501
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:31.199
places like McDonald Douglas, and you
know, quite respectable institutions. So I

502
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:37.840
was testing the waters and I found
if you stick to the facts and respect

503
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:43.719
your audience, people will listen.
And I've tried to encourage other people and

504
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:46.159
not trying to hold the world to
myself. And I tell people there are

505
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:52.719
a couple of rules. Never lie
and have facts in hand before putting mouth

506
00:42:52.760 --> 00:43:00.960
and gear. Because you know you're
going to answer questions and say I'll get

507
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.360
back in tomorrow on that. You
know you got to do your homework.

508
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:09.199
So these are tools that have nothing
to do with UFOs. It has to

509
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:15.239
do with whatever you're talking about,
especially if it's controversial at all. So

510
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:20.679
I've enjoyed it, and you know, I'm a leo. I like being

511
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.199
out in front of the crowds,
and I'm lucky on that score. There

512
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:29.880
were two things. One I enjoy
being on the stage and two. At

513
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:34.519
that time, at least, my
memory was excellent. And at first I

514
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.519
was wary of what did I get
things right? Make sure I didn't say

515
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.320
anything that wasn't true, and I
when i'd go back and check, oh

516
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:45.360
yeah, okay, I got it
right. My memory was working. I'm

517
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.960
not saying it's working now. That's
a different story. So I took advantage

518
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:55.480
of that and I could relax.
And also I'm not afraid to say I

519
00:43:55.480 --> 00:44:00.360
don't know. Yeah, I think
that's an important one. And I would

520
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:05.480
imagine your debate experience was really important
as well, because and it's sort of

521
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:08.679
a problem I think that we have
now, is this fear to debate each

522
00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:13.719
other. When people hold their ground
so tightly, they they're not open to

523
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:20.199
being doubted, and so there's a
lot of contention, like get whereas you

524
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:23.119
know, you learned early on in
debate to respect your your opponent. Oh

525
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:29.719
yeah, you got to know both
sides of the story. It reminds me

526
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:35.039
of you know, I can't remember
what. Oh Kevin Randall. You know,

527
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:40.480
he kind of got thrown into debating
on ROSWA and they were like,

528
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:44.800
what side do you want? And
he chose the underdog just for the hell

529
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:47.079
of it. Uh. He didn't
even know much about any of it,

530
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:52.039
and when that's what got him into
it in the first time. So,

531
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.360
yeah, the knowing that both sides
important and having that ability to respect both

532
00:44:58.360 --> 00:45:01.519
sides. And you and I have
debated before on things and many others,

533
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:07.000
and of course it's fun to do
that because we learn. That's how we

534
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:13.159
learned from each other. Yeah.
Yeah. And the thing is that you

535
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.960
should have the goal of getting at
the truth, not of having your ego

536
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:20.800
put forward, you know what I
mean. It's not a question of who's

537
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:23.960
winnings. Let's get the facts out
there and maybe you'll learn something, maybe

538
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:29.079
you'll change your view the next time, who knows. But I've enjoyed it,

539
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:32.760
and you know, but I must
say I'm less fleet of foot,

540
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.960
so to speak, mentally now than
I was fifty years ago. My first

541
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:43.440
lecture was in the nineteen sixty seven. Boy, that seems forever ago.

542
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:49.079
That was quite a while ago.
And I'm assuming that you were a young

543
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.119
physicist at that time. Yes,
oh, yes, yeah. I was

544
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:58.960
working for Westinghouse Astro Nuclear Lab and
we had an active group in Pittsburgh and

545
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:05.559
we even a UFO research institute.
I was an active member and I eventually

546
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:12.079
became president of the group. But
and we sponsored a talk at Carnegie Institute

547
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:15.679
and had a big crowd and they
paid little money to get in, and

548
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:21.480
the response was great. What I'm
trying to say is everybody was so wary,

549
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.840
especially back then, you're going to
say flying saucers are real. And

550
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:31.360
I chose that topic that title intentionally, you know, and I put an

551
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:38.079
exclamation point after the real, and
I put R in caps. Let's make

552
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:44.519
clear where that we've taken a stand
here. And it wasn't our flying saucers

553
00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:51.119
real, but flying saucers are real, you know, And it worked.

554
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:55.719
What I'm saying is that that drew
people, it didn't bother them. And

555
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:01.239
you know, I've often had record
crowds, and you know, sometimes i'd

556
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:05.679
try to put you on the spot. I did a lecture at the University

557
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:09.719
of Manitoba. We had a packed
house, people sitting in the stairways,

558
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:17.039
you know. It was an auditorium
kind of thing with sloping upward from the

559
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:22.719
speaker. And at the end of
the lecture, which was mrma Received,

560
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.280
there were over six hundred people there. Somebody got up in the question answered

561
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.280
and one of the first questions,
how about polling this audience, because I

562
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.960
had given some data from the Gallup
polls, you know, which showed,

563
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:37.679
much to people's surprise, that the
greater the education and more likely to believe

564
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:42.599
in flying saucers and stuff like that. How about pulling this audience? He

565
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:47.360
said. I couldn't tell what side
of the aisle he was on, but

566
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.679
I said, well, usually I'm
the one who six's neck out, you

567
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.760
know, not asking the audience to
well, I don't think anybody in mind.

568
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:00.119
Everybody collapsed, okay. I asked
two questions. I told them,

569
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.360
I'll ask you two questions. How
many think some UFOs are alien space growing

570
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:10.400
aircraft, I probably said, intelligently
control extraterrestrial spacecraft. And how might think

571
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:16.039
no UFOs are intelligently control extraterrestial spacecraft. I'll ask you both questions. I

572
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:22.519
did that more than ninety percent,
so they thought some were wow, that

573
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.280
was I mean, this is after
my lecture, you understand. And a

574
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:32.280
common comment that I got through all
this meandering around the world was that,

575
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.199
gee, I didn't know that.
I never heard of those studies. And

576
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:42.880
I got a little sneaky early on. I often would say, I'd talk

577
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:46.920
about five large scale scientific studies and
I'd say, how many of you have

578
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:51.840
read this after I talk about it? And typically you know a few,

579
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.840
two or three or four, right, And so that served a purpose.

580
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.000
It made people aware that, hey, they weren't the only one who didn't

581
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.400
know anything, and b there was
a lot of people who didn't know much

582
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:07.360
about the subject. Maybe we ought
to listen to find out about something.

583
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.880
And you know, it's one of
the things. We've got to take a

584
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:15.559
break right now, so we'll be
right back and we'll finish that thought,

585
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.840
because that goes into a lot of
the other people you debate that should know

586
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.760
more but don't, And we'll talk
about that when we get back. But

587
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:28.599
you're listening to Open Mind GUFO Radio. I'm happy to have Stanton Friedman here

588
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.719
with me. We'll be back after
the short break. If you're listening to

589
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:36.280
the podcast, you'll hear a short
music interlude. Otherwise, if you're listening

590
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:40.079
on KGr, you'll hear a few
commercials from some of the people that keep

591
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:45.800
kg R going. So pay attention
to patronize these people. Thanks for listening.

592
00:49:45.800 --> 00:50:07.960
We'll be back in just a moment. Welcome back to Open Mind's UFO

593
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:12.199
Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I'm talking with Stanton

594
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.840
Friedman. And you were talking about
how in your lectures, you know,

595
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:22.840
people often didn't know much about this
topic before you started talking, and we'll

596
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.840
get more into that, but there
was something else that you talked about,

597
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:32.320
you know, being wary and how
you took that bold kind of stance to

598
00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:38.280
name your lecture, you know,
flying stars are real. It must have

599
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:44.960
taken quite a bit for a young
physicist to even get involved with this controversial

600
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:51.440
field, especially when you're trying to
you know, develop your career, and

601
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:57.599
I'm sure you had thoughts to as
how this would impact your career. I

602
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:04.960
was wary. I certainly was worry. However, the response from the professional

603
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:09.400
groups early on, like the Engineering
Society of Detroit and the Engineering Society of

604
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:15.960
Cincinnati and several sections of the Americans
to do aeronautics and astronautics. Nobody can

605
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.920
say these are a bunch of believers. And the response at Los Alamos,

606
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:25.719
I worry a little bit. It
was as almost section of the American Nuclear

607
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:32.840
Society and Westing has paid for me
to go there to talk to them,

608
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.199
which was a compliment in the first
place. But there were over four hundred

609
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:44.119
people there and there weren't any nasty
questions. Wow. And so you know,

610
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:47.880
after you go through this enough times, you realize it's okay, stick

611
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:54.320
to the facts, never lie,
have yourself be prepared for whoever's going to

612
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:59.199
ask what. And you know,
I've had eleven hecklers and over seven hundred

613
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:04.239
lectures. Two of them were drunk. It was funny. After one lecture

614
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.079
you realize that guy was drunk.
And the first guy that stood up and

615
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:12.039
the thing is you learn to keep
your cool. One guy first up in

616
00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:15.159
the question answered period. I just
call on the first guy who stands up

617
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:20.440
and he said, I've never heard
so much nonsense in one night in my

618
00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:23.480
life. Great way to start.
Yeah, I said, can you please

619
00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:28.719
be a little more specific sir,
I wouldn't have told you what I was

620
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.119
going to say, but that's what
I did say. And so he said,

621
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:35.400
well, you said that Betty and
Barney Hill were taken on board a

622
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:39.840
UFO and went off to Zata Reticul
line back in two hours. And I

623
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:43.639
said, no, sir, what
I said was they were taken on board

624
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.719
a UFO. They remained for two
hours, they didn't go anywhere. And

625
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:53.079
he had a couple more like that
things that no, that's not what I

626
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:58.400
said. And then someone in the
audience said, how about taking some sensible

627
00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:02.840
question. This guy gets up and
leaves m H and I said, I'll

628
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:07.960
answer your question. But who was
that? He was a professors. Oh,

629
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:14.119
he was interesting, obviously didn't know
anything about the subject and certainly wasn't

630
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.480
going to admit that. Well,
I guess we'll get into this now,

631
00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:21.559
because that does make me think of, of course, some of the other

632
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:28.880
people, especially one of the people
you debate often is Zess Shostak of SETI.

633
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:31.039
You've had several debates with him,
and you know what, I've talked

634
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:35.039
to him. I'm a big fan
of his, and he reminds me of

635
00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:40.840
you a bit in that you're both
very witty and entertaining. But he over

636
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:47.320
the years, despite having fielded questions
in this arena and being asked even in

637
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:55.480
UH mainstream media about this topic,
seems to very much resist wanting to educate

638
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:01.800
himself because he still talks in general
at ease, and even though he's posed

639
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:07.440
questions to me before any you and
others and saying, you know, astronomers

640
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:08.599
would be into this. So you're
like, okay, well look at Peter

641
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:13.639
Sturk, look at you know,
Heinech and some of these these Heinich did

642
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:17.400
a report on astronomers and UFOs,
look at that. But he doesn't look

643
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:22.320
at any of this. There's no
indication that he also looked at any of

644
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:27.599
the research that answers the questions YEA
to him. I asked, in the

645
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:32.639
course of one encounter we had how
many he was in the audience, And

646
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.400
after each of five large scale scientific
studies, I asked, how many people

647
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:44.159
here read this? And he hadn't
read any of them, and opteen years

648
00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:50.519
later he still hadn't read any of
them. Yeah, it's a remarkable thing

649
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:53.400
in today's world with professional people.
Look I like said, he's a nice

650
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:59.000
guy. I respect him. He's
done a lot to get people interested in

651
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:01.880
life and out of space. Although
it was kind of shocked when he said

652
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:09.039
recently, well he lost the debate
to me, which he did, but

653
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:15.639
that doesn't mean he was right.
You know it, don't bother me with

654
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:21.519
the facts. My mind's made up. And that's the attitude here that especially

655
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.239
the astronomers who seemed to think they
should be the ones who answer all UFO

656
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:30.480
questions. I don't know why,
what do they know about advanced technology?

657
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:34.079
For example? One of the big
questions can you get here from there?

658
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:38.239
I worked on nuclear fish and rockets, which we successfully tested on the ground,

659
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:45.079
the biggest one. I'm still impressed. One of the highlights of my

660
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:50.639
industrial career. The test was out
at the nuclear test side in Nevada and

661
00:55:50.880 --> 00:56:00.239
the thing operate operated for the full
sixty minutes. It was at a power

662
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:07.719
level of one thousand megawatts. Now
hoober Dam produces two thousand. So you

663
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:12.719
get an idea. Here's a reactor
system that's less than eight feet in diameter

664
00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:16.599
and the exhaust temperature liquid hydrogen,
goes in very cold and comes out very

665
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:22.199
hot four thousand degrees. It was
a very impressive test and we Frankly,

666
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.960
I have to admit, we had
no idea how long is this they're gonna

667
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:30.840
run? Maybe the fuel elements will
come out. I mean, operating at

668
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:39.000
four thousand degrees is not a normal
environment for equipment these days. And they

669
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:43.400
announced the temperature and pressure five minutes, ten minutes, twenty minutes, and

670
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:46.159
that all those things were nominal,
and gee, we might make it the

671
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:50.960
maximum time we could operate with sixty
minutes, because he couldn't store enough loud

672
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.960
hydrogen to go more than that,
because you needed it for after cooling.

673
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:59.039
And we got the full sixty minutes. And I wouldn't have been surprised.

674
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:05.039
Nobody would have been. And I
was particularly worried. I shouldn't admit it,

675
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:08.880
but I am. I was particularly
worried because they asked me between a

676
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:13.360
week and two weeks before the test, Stan, we don't know whether the

677
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:17.800
control elements are going to be cooled
enough, and that they might not melt

678
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.880
down. Can you get some information
for what the radiation levels will be at

679
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:27.639
them, the neutron levels and so
forth. Okay, so I ran some

680
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:30.280
experiments, I got help with people
down at the nuclear test site and so

681
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:35.000
forth, and yeah, yeah,
it'll work, It'll be okay. But

682
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:40.320
I'll tell you when we started the
tests, my feeling was, I hope

683
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.880
that thing works because if it doesn't, they're going to blame me. Well,

684
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:51.079
you know it go ahead. No, just that that was a highlight

685
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:55.159
that the successful testing of a real
system. And I found most people have

686
00:57:55.239 --> 00:58:01.039
no idea that we've done that,
and especially the astronomical community. I worked

687
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:07.280
on a study of fusion propulsion for
deep space travel when I was at ERGA.

688
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:12.719
This is back in nineteen sixty two, and we concluded that fusion would

689
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:16.599
do the job. If you had
the dough, you could go. And

690
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:22.599
so that's a long time ago,
and you'd think the astronomers would be wise

691
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:25.199
on that subject because of all the
stars, every single one of them produces

692
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:30.360
its energy by nuclear fusion. But
none of them know about fusion or fission

693
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:35.960
propulsion. And the kicker here is
we didn't even know there was such a

694
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:42.119
thing as fission or fusion until nineteen
thirty eight. We didn't even know there

695
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:49.960
were neutrons until nineteen thirty two.
So one needs to realize that unlike Bishop

696
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:52.679
Usher who said the word was created
in four thousand and four BC, the

697
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.320
Earth is over four billion years old, and we're just finding out how the

698
00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:04.679
Sun works in nineteen thirty eight.
Back in the twenties, nineteen twenties,

699
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.639
we thought the Sun was a mass
of burning gas. Who knew from the

700
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:13.920
clear fusion. Well, the reason
I bring up fusion all the time to

701
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:15.239
people, why are you talking about
that? You're not going to use h

702
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:21.400
bombs? Well you might, But
the kicker is almost all the energy in

703
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.320
the universe is produced. Find uclear
fusion in the stars. It's not a

704
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:30.880
mass of burning gas. And there's
so much more energy per pound, if

705
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:36.039
you will. A quick example,
A big bomb in World War Two produced

706
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:39.360
the energy of ten tons of dynamite. Wow, a blockbuster. They called

707
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:44.679
it ten tons of dynamite. That
was in forty four, nineteen forty five,

708
00:59:44.719 --> 00:59:49.039
First Day bomb, sixteen thousand tons
of dynamite. That's how much energy.

709
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:57.119
First fusion bomb nineteen fifty two,
ten million tons, one stinking bomb.

710
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:05.159
And the Russians said, off tarbomba
twenty seven million tons of TNT.

711
01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:09.119
That top of energy was released by
this one lousy bomb. What I'm saying

712
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.599
is bombs are one thing, and
yes there are means of destruction, but

713
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:17.960
they can also be used for propulsion
the process m and so when I say

714
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.719
man can go to the stars,
I mean it. I worked on efficient

715
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:30.400
nuclear rocket and operated successfully so to
Los Alamos. There's even bigger four thousand

716
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:37.519
mega wants exhaust temperature four thousand degrees. Now that's a realm that nobody talks

717
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:43.480
about, you know, And this
that was you're all back before nineteen seventy,

718
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.320
for God's sakes. Yeah, so
it's interesting that they stick to that

719
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:51.639
line, you know that you know
it's too far, we can't get there.

720
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.840
I asked michi Okaku in the one
chance I had a few seconds with

721
01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:59.719
him, and then question I asked
was around this, you know, because

722
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:04.719
he talked so much about the other
civilizations and types that he believes are likely

723
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:07.320
out there. And I asked him, why do you feel that, you

724
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:12.199
know, SETI is, why do
they continue with this response that you know

725
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:16.239
these distances are too far? And
he said his reply with a smirk,

726
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:27.079
was they're astronomers. What do they
know about physics or theoretical physicis so kind

727
01:01:27.079 --> 01:01:30.079
of really along the lines of what
you're saying as well. Yeah, I

728
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:34.800
talked to him, I was interviewed
by him he had a radio program back

729
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:40.159
way back Glenn and we were both
participated in the program. Uh in Saudi

730
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:44.320
Arabia of all places. How do
you like that? Oh? Yeah,

731
01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:46.400
that one. I think Jacques Valet
had something to do with that. Yes,

732
01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:52.000
Jacques did. And there are a
couple of other people and one guy

733
01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:59.760
didn't really know but then Micheu and
uh Shaq and myself when I forget who

734
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:05.679
they the guy was, but yeah, who was Nick Pope one of them?

735
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:10.920
No, I don't think so.
But it was an interesting experience,

736
01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:15.000
especially when I called them after that. They had invited me out of the

737
01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:16.920
blue. I didn't know who they
were. They had a fancy name for

738
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:21.920
the event, and I actually checked
to make sure there was such an event,

739
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:27.800
and then I finally decided I better
check on something else because people were

740
01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:30.840
saying, stand, are you crazy, You're a Jewish, You're going to

741
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:36.079
Saudi Arabia. And so I called
the person that a woman as a matter

742
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:39.719
of fact, who was handling things, and mentioned that, you know,

743
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:43.960
I don't want to go there,
and then have somebody at the door say

744
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.480
you can't come in. It's a
long way. It was a long way.

745
01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:50.519
Said no, there's no problem.
We've had other Jewish speakers at the

746
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:55.639
symposia and there wasn't. There wasn't. I was treated perfectly normally, and

747
01:02:55.719 --> 01:03:02.719
I had dinner with several meals at
this conference with we weren't sitting at the

748
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:07.360
same seat each time, so you
got to associate with a lot of them,

749
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:09.079
and there wasn't a bit of a
problem like that. I could have

750
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:16.000
been at my father's cousin's club that
I was comfortable. And I want to

751
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:21.559
stress that. I mean, you
know, people forget the golden age of

752
01:03:21.679 --> 01:03:27.440
Jews and Arabs was in Spain,
back in like the thirteenth century. There

753
01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:32.719
was great respect. And so that's
one of the nice things I spoke in

754
01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:37.519
China. I had no idea how
I would be, what the response would

755
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:43.199
be. They were very nice and
sensible. They asked questions, sure,

756
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.440
but there was no putting down the
subject or putting me down or you know,

757
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:54.440
it was okay. And again I
say that not to brag about me,

758
01:03:54.719 --> 01:04:00.760
but to get people to recognize that
it's okay to learn about subsequent to

759
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:03.000
talk about it. Just make sure
you have your fact straight, that's all.

760
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:09.079
M HM. So when you first
got involved at what motivated you then

761
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:15.159
to get involved with this subject,
especially you know, like we talked about

762
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:21.239
earlier, early on in your building
your career. I was interested in far

763
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:27.039
out technology. My first job,
I was working on radiation shielding for nuclear

764
01:04:27.079 --> 01:04:31.360
airplanes. And many people aren't aware
that our program in nineteen fifty eight spent

765
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:39.440
one hundred million dollars Kenel Electric.
That's not six professors and twelve grad students,

766
01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:43.400
now you understand. So I had
you know, there were a lot

767
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:45.519
of other people involved, and I
didn't have a PhD. Many of our

768
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:54.760
people did. But I was interested
in far out stuff, working on nuclear

769
01:04:54.800 --> 01:05:00.440
airplanes and then nuclear rockets and doing
a study of nuclear your fusion for deep

770
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:05.119
space travel. I was really excited
about Holy cow, we can do these

771
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:13.039
things. And so the first lecture
was an accident. Somebody heard me on

772
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:17.679
the radio because they needed entertainment for
their book review club that was reading Frank

773
01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:21.679
Edwards's book. Sure, why not. I didn't even get paid for it.

774
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:27.039
I got a dinner out of it, I think, you come to

775
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:34.199
think of it. But I was
intrigued by the technology aspects, and then

776
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:40.719
I was intrigued once I started doing
my homework at how much data there was

777
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:45.000
that nobody seemed to know about.
I'm the one who's brought into prominence Bluemook

778
01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:53.039
Special Report fourteen, biggest study ever
done on a scientific study. It was

779
01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:58.199
done by Betel Memorial Institute in Columbus, Ohio. As it happens, I

780
01:05:58.239 --> 01:06:02.719
had had a contract with where I
was involved with the tell at looking at

781
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:08.880
It was an Air Force contract and
they were the best source of information.

782
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:15.840
What did the Russians know about nuclear
power in space? And let's see,

783
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:19.440
it had a fancy title analysis an
Evaluation of Fast and Intermediate Reactors for Space

784
01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:27.320
Vehicle applications. The word Soviet was
Nowhere's there? And I was not even

785
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:31.159
allowed to keep a copy of my
final report. So I was involved in

786
01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:35.719
this far out stuff. And this
is pretty early in my professional career.

787
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:43.719
And then once I started speaking and
remembered all the debating stuff, I got

788
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:49.039
it hooked. I enjoyed speaking,
and I enjoyed the challenge of keeping ahead

789
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:55.519
of the opposition, so to speak. And you know, I was very

790
01:06:55.599 --> 01:07:00.679
terribly disappointed when I was supposed to
have the Debate of the Century on April

791
01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:08.920
the eighth in Vancouver. I had
a big auditorium I'm supposed to debate Michael

792
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:15.599
Shermer of the Skeptic Society and get
a nice fee on top of it,

793
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:18.519
as a matter of fact, and
it was canceled. I still don't know

794
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:27.480
why. Maybe I was too eager. Yeah. Well, but and now

795
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.519
after all of these years, now
that we're almost running out of time,

796
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:33.559
we didn't get to I'll have to
have you back because I wanted to talk

797
01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:38.840
to you a lot about the state
of things now. But I think what

798
01:07:38.920 --> 01:07:43.400
we touched upon is really important.
But now after all of these years,

799
01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:51.159
you're talking about retirement from UFOs,
So that's finally going to happen. Well,

800
01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:55.679
I think so. I mean,
I think I do have two lecture

801
01:07:55.719 --> 01:08:00.599
scheduled after Roswell that have been you
know, I'm not going to cancel him

802
01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:05.679
just because I'm retiring. People made
an honest commitment and they've got an audience,

803
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:11.360
and then'll increase the attendance. I'm
sure no one of his last lectures.

804
01:08:12.159 --> 01:08:15.840
But yeah, look, I'm going
to be eighty four in July.

805
01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:20.880
It's time. I used to say, when you played sports, you're a

806
01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:28.239
step slower going to first place,
well three or four steps, you know,

807
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:33.560
So it's about time. And also
I've never really retired. I mean,

808
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:40.800
you know, I've been speaking since
about fifty one years now, and

809
01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:44.760
so it would be nice to have
a little time for my wife and I

810
01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:46.960
to do things. Are not worrying
about me traveling all over the place.

811
01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:54.079
They got to some weird places.
What Lee and I were talking about,

812
01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:58.760
Lei Spiegel, Yeah, we're talking
about this, and he made a great

813
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.760
point at that. I'm sure you
by far have done the most UFO lectures

814
01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:11.960
than anyone ever. So yeah,
probably way more, probably double your your

815
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:16.880
next closest person, whoever that would
be. That's been your thing. You've

816
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:23.439
done so many of them and educated
so many different varieties and diverse groups of

817
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:29.359
people on this topic. Yeah.
Well, look, I've enjoyed it.

818
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:31.880
I wouldn't do it if I didn't
enjoy it. But you know, I

819
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:39.000
get to see all kinds of places. Warsaw, I've spoken in Broke good

820
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:44.720
response in the Polish UFO society,
and I was spoken in Finland and Argentina

821
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.159
and Ecuador. That was a weird
one. They told me that would be

822
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.479
the only one at this huge conference
that would be very well attended. There'd

823
01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:59.640
be loads of media people there and
they wanted me to put up the money

824
01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:03.039
for the rip and I said,
no way. I'm glad I didn't.

825
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:10.279
Anyway, they brought me in and
a very small crowd with outdoor plumbing for

826
01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:15.800
the restrooms. And uh, it's
just a good thing they paid. At

827
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.039
least they didn't make any money on
the talk, that's for sure. But

828
01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:27.479
it was a different sort of experience. And I have to you know A

829
01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:32.880
J. Gavard and he was there, and matter of fact, he drove

830
01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:36.439
me there from me met me in
Sao Paulo and we drove over to our

831
01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:46.199
there to argent to a ecquitor and
the translator was a high school kid who

832
01:10:46.319 --> 01:10:55.119
had a course in English, and
A J was listening and said, hey,

833
01:10:55.760 --> 01:11:00.119
let me do this and he did. H So, you know,

834
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:05.399
that was an experience, and there
are lots of little things along the way,

835
01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:11.439
but I've enjoyed it. I got
how many I've spoken in nineteen countries?

836
01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:15.920
Wow, up the state's ten provinces. See the world, Like I

837
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:21.359
said, be a ufologist. That's
amazing. Well we're out of time.

838
01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:26.479
This has been a lot of fun, really eye opening and important I think

839
01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:30.680
to guide people because a lot of
what you did back then is still doable

840
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:35.920
right now and even and you've paved
the way for people now it's much easier

841
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:41.560
to do what you did because of
you doing this when you did. So

842
01:11:42.199 --> 01:11:45.359
Thank you so much for everything you've
done. I'll definitely we'll have to have

843
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:48.640
you on again in the next few
weeks so we could talk more. This

844
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:54.479
will just be we'll make this part
one all right, and well it snow

845
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.840
the next time, hopefully not,
but where you are you never know.

846
01:11:59.560 --> 01:12:02.560
Thank you. Thank you so much
to Stanton for joining us this week.

847
01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:05.880
And it's going to be a lot
of fun to check back with him.

848
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:10.399
I'm going to try to do it
like maybe on a monthly basis, huh,

849
01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:16.079
and hopefully you all don't mind.
I find him terribly interesting. He

850
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:21.880
truly is a national treasure and it's
a lot of fun because you know,

851
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:26.920
he's such a kind of media darling
every time, you know, for me,

852
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:30.039
I pay a lot of attention to
you know, the media coming and

853
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:34.359
interviewing people at different events and stuff
like that, and it's so easy to

854
01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:38.560
put Stanton in front of people and
they fall in love with him. He

855
01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:43.840
always shares great information and so it's
one of the things one of the many

856
01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:49.840
skills he has that will be sorely
missed as he leaves the field. Unfortunately,

857
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:55.079
this is so sad, but that
means we got to spend a lot

858
01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:58.039
of time with him before he goes, and so that's why we'll have him

859
01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:00.680
on the show quite a bit and
they come month, so that'll be great.

860
01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:04.199
Thank you so much, Stan.
Also, thank you so much to

861
01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:08.880
Martin Willis, a podcast UFO who
helps us out with the news at the

862
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:12.520
beginning of the show. Remember,
you can see all the stories we talked

863
01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:17.600
about at Openminds dot tv that Linda
and Zimmerman, great Saint Patrick's thing is

864
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:23.279
there and it's so much information that
is coming out these days with the DoD

865
01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:27.399
and Louise Elizondo and all of that. So I'm still unpacking it. We'll

866
01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:32.039
have some stories there and I can
tell you we'll have more exclusive Elizondo interviews

867
01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:36.359
on the Horizon. We're still in
contact and I should be meeting up with

868
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:42.079
him soon actually in the next couple
of weeks, so very excited about that.

869
01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:45.640
Thank you to Caleb Hanks who does
the opening and close music. Thanks

870
01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:49.880
to Systematics who created the bumper music, and thank you to you, all

871
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:55.039
the listeners. Thank you for being
here every week, and thank you to

872
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:59.079
those of you who said hi at
the conference and at other places in the

873
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:03.079
last couple of weeks. That reminds
me next weekend I will be this weekend.

874
01:14:03.079 --> 01:14:06.199
This coming weekend, I'm going to
be in Boise at tree Fort.

875
01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:10.880
I'm gonna be at something called hack
Fort where I'm going to be talking about

876
01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:14.279
the media and tech, but also
I'm going to have a panel that I'll

877
01:14:14.319 --> 01:14:17.319
be moderating with Van Hansen and Mark' antonio where we're going to talk about

878
01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:23.119
the tech of UFOs and the paranormal. So that's tree Fort. Look it

879
01:14:23.199 --> 01:15:15.800
up. Until next time, Audio's
moved. Chechos, you are mucous