WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:04.719 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris'm Lorenzo, and Lorenzo. On this 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:07.639 episode, I want to talk about an article that I saw in the Harvard 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.080 Business Review, and we'll post a link to the article in the podcast description. 4 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:15.880 It's called how to make leadership positions more enticing to primary care Physicians. 5 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:19.199 And I know what you're thinking right now, what do you mean primary care 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.280 physicians? Like this? This isn't necessarily normally what we talk about here on 7 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:27.039 this show, but you know, we've often maintained and we believe that the 8 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.839 leadership is leadership in terms of the skills needed to lead people, regardless of 9 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:33.759 the industry that you're in. And there are a lot of tie ins in 10 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:39.159 terms of the the expectations here compared to the expectations in roles that we would 11 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:43.079 typically talk about on the show. You know, I think about the first 12 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:47.240 time that I was in a leadership role at all, and it was kind 13 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.880 of like what you would consider to be like a key carrier, like a 14 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:56.640 glorified key carrier, right, And the the the job itself consisted of things 15 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.000 that were that would be largely kind of like babysitting, administrative, like I 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.960 you know, making sure people are doing what they're supposed to do. And 17 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:07.319 you know, there were oftentimes where in my mind I thought, I have 18 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.799 no real authority here right, Like, I have responsibilities and I have accountabilities. 19 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.439 I have to get done, but if something needs to needs to change 20 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.040 or needs to happen, I'm not the one who gets to like tell somebody. 21 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.280 And that was really shortsighted because if I had looked at it the correct 22 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.480 way when I was nineteen years old, I would have said, well, 23 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.439 no, this is this is a stepping stone and a way for me to 24 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.480 demonstrate that I can have interactions with people that go the right way. I 25 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.400 can have interactions with people where I'm trying to get them to change their behavior 26 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.640 and therefore change, you know, potentially over a long term the culture of 27 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.840 a place in a way that gets them to say, oh, I like 28 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.760 what Chris has to say, and now I'm going to change my behavior. 29 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.920 Not because Chris has any authority over me, but because I trust Chris and 30 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.799 I want to follow what he has to say, and I trust him to 31 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.319 kind of like make make good decisions on my half. And I think when 32 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:07.640 it comes to these types of roles, there can be a lot of people 33 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:12.879 who who don't want these roles because they see it as just that they would 34 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.800 rather do, you know, the kind of the tactical things that they want 35 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.240 to do as opposed to step into these leadership roles. And so I think 36 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.400 this is a real problem is getting people who are talented, quality people to 37 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:29.120 want to step up into these roles that have a potential to positively change organizations. 38 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:30.879 Do you do you see this where you are, well, yeah, 39 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:32.840 And I think there's also an element of this where it's like you for many 40 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:37.159 like I think the key hold the role that you're talking about in in retail, 41 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.719 Like there's this element of like, oh, now I have this responsibility, 42 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:44.800 there's more trust, there's more kind of like what I'm being asked to 43 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:47.759 do. But it's also it's it's it's another level of responsibility. And so 44 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:52.560 like, if you're doing what you're doing and enjoying it, are you raising 45 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:54.840 your hand to say I'm going to continue doing this? But also I want 46 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:59.680 more work? Right like like and then as a leader, I now want 47 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.759 to be accountable not just for what I do, but also for those that 48 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:07.639 I lead. And so, you know, people tend to really want and 49 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:13.319 feel sometimes pull towards leadership, Like I like, I know I can do 50 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.280 this, I know I can make change. I know that that I have 51 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:21.080 ideas that may be helpful, But then it becomes okay, but do you 52 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.719 also then want to take on all of the responsibilities that comes with leading people? 53 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:28.960 And so again I think that this is a good article and good for 54 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:34.400 us to talk about because there are there are roles that you're going to take 55 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.800 in your career that are going to be the kind of the to your point, 56 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:44.639 the roles that help you shape how to like influence without authority if you 57 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.520 look at it that way. But many times these roles are at a time 58 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:51.919 in your career where you're not thinking about it that way. You're just like, 59 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:53.639 oh, you're gonna pay me an extra seventy five cents an hour, 60 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:57.879 and like I can unlock the doors. Cool, sign me up, right, 61 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:00.520 And but but again but you're like, but you're I don't really have 62 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:05.280 any authority here. So it's just you know, I like that this article 63 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:10.960 is like again about kind of a different industry than we normally talk about, 64 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:15.159 but we talk a lot about leadership across all industries. Also, just real 65 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.879 quick shout out to Mike Shannat he's in EMS and he has some leadership development 66 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:25.000 stuff that he does and s H A N A T. But he is 67 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:30.720 constantly talking about this around leadership lessons that apply across industries and things that we 68 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:33.879 can take and apply to the roles that we have or the industries that we're 69 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.199 in. So I'm looking forward to kind of digging a little bit deeper into 70 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:40.759 this and thinking about what are they talking about, and then how would that 71 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:43.560 maybe apply to the worlds that we work in every day right right? I 72 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:48.279 think the way I think about this is that is that even though the skills 73 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:51.519 of doing a job, whatever that job is, like I'm talking about a 74 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.000 non leadership role a job, the skills that it takes to do those jobs, 75 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:01.199 part of the things that make somebody successful at those jobs or not is 76 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:06.439 are things like conscientiousness, the ability to think outside the box to solve problems, 77 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:12.000 the ability to not just you know, kind of like be focused in 78 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.879 one direction and say go and then you walk into you hit a wall until 79 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:17.399 somebody turns you around, but to be able to look three or four steps 80 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:24.360 ahead and make rational and conscious and intelligent decisions based on the context of things 81 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.160 that might not be in part of your role or part of your purview, 82 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.040 and those skills and abilities will lead you to do whatever that job is well 83 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.519 versus somebody who doesn't have those skills. A person who does those things well 84 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.560 is more likely to be successful in a leadership role than someone who doesn't have 85 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:47.079 those skills. But oftentimes people who have those skills, they don't necessarily want 86 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.240 to do the job, the role of leadership because they view it as a 87 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:55.800 departure from the things they love doing. They love doing the actual job they're 88 00:05:55.800 --> 00:06:00.680 doing, and they think that stepping into a leadership role means I'm gonna lose 89 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.319 the you know, I don't want to say the autonomy, but the you 90 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.160 know, kind of the ability to kind of like just put the put the 91 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:10.040 bag of bricks down when I leave for the day, Like I'm I don't 92 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.519 want to be thinking about this twenty four hours a day. I want to 93 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.399 do my job and I'll be conscientious about it. But but being responsible for 94 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.040 what other people do and how they do their job is just not enticing in 95 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:25.319 me. And I think where where that becomes short sighted for leaders who are 96 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.560 trying to kind of like get people to fill these roles. Is that when 97 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:32.439 you have a culture is not something that is self sustaining, you you have 98 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.839 to maintain it, Like effort has to go in to doing this, and 99 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:41.519 if you have a shortage of people who do those things well in your leadership 100 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.319 roles, then the culture will deteriorate wherever you are and it will become a 101 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:48.480 place that those good people no longer want to work at. So so getting 102 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:53.959 those people to kind of step up a little bit and take on more responsibilities 103 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.600 is the role of a leader. The role of a leaders is to figure 104 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.680 out how to make these people want to take on some of these responsibilities in 105 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:05.360 a way where they don't They don't view it as a departure from what they 106 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:09.399 love doing. They look at it as as an addition to what they're doing, 107 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.319 or as a positive thing. They can they can pull positives, positive 108 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:16.360 things out of this is it. It's a tough dance too, because sometimes 109 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:20.319 it can look like you're trying to sell something to somebody. But but you 110 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:24.360 can't do that either because it will come off as disingenuous. It has to 111 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:27.279 be something real, but you have to be able to word it in the 112 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.800 right way to make people actually want to opt in. Yeah, I like 113 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.000 that, and I like kind of it breaks down a great example here in 114 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.480 the article around like providing the on ramp, which really like, how are 115 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.720 you positioning these types of roles that will resonate with the people that would be 116 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.879 interested with them, but to your point, not not lie about it. 117 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.199 Like if I said, Okay, hey, I'm going to make you a 118 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:47.879 key holder. You're gonna have keys and codes, You'll be able to unlock 119 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.720 the door, you'll be able to alarm the building, and then you're gonna 120 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:55.639 go in early before everybody else is there, and then do all the administrative 121 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.639 work that nobody else wants to do. And then you're also going to do 122 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:01.680 that on the other three shifts at night. Right, you're gonna hip, 123 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:07.000 that's leadership, right? Or or are we gonna say, like, look, 124 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:13.160 this is an opportunity to gain some experience through repetition of the security protocols, 125 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.000 the things that we do, and you know, take take on the 126 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.519 accountability around operational excellence and some cool terms that we go out there. And 127 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.399 then the real answer is, look, you're gonna you're gonna get up early, 128 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.040 you're gonna unalarm a building, you're going to count cash, You're gonna 129 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.759 do this type of work. These are things that you're going to get better 130 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.279 at over time. But this is not the best part of the gig. 131 00:08:31.559 --> 00:08:35.399 The best part of the gig is you're gonna have a lot of dedicated time 132 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.159 working with the team to then be able to provide them an element of informal 133 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:46.480 leadership and influence of the relationships that you build and because you have some some 134 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.639 additional responsibilities, you're going to learn and grow through how do you navigate these 135 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.759 relationships personally and professionally to learn from your team, but also to teach your 136 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.120 team to become more efficient. So like there's there's a way in which you 137 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.519 want to talk about this and then also and it's different I think in retail 138 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.720 because we get the time to position these things with the individuals many times and 139 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.639 they get to see it. In others, I think in an industry like 140 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:18.559 this where the job description is really important and people are like applying based upon 141 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.080 what they read than what you have in writing has to be reflective of of 142 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.559 what you know, what you want them to get out of the job, 143 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.879 and how you want them to show up and not make it just some like 144 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.399 arbitrary. This is the same job that you get everywhere, that type of 145 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.279 thing. So I think that that's the that's the challenge in some industries, 146 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:39.559 But I think in retail we have a little bit more of an opportunity to 147 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:43.120 kind of build in the context of why this would be good for somebody's career. 148 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.960 I think in a lot of industries and a lot of companies, they 149 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.840 are shortsighted in terms of how they frame these these roles. They frame it 150 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.279 very, very matter of factly, like these are the actual responsibilities of their 151 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.919 role. And and that's because these are the things that you're held accountable to. 152 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.240 Meaning if you don't take it and run with it from a standpoint of 153 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.879 building relationships with people and demonstrating that you can lead without having an actual title 154 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:11.399 and that you can kind of influence people to get better work done, you're 155 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:16.159 not being held accountable in these roles to their performance. And so it's not 156 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:20.000 going to be in the job description. But if you just do what's in 157 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.039 the job description, then then it is what it is you will you will. 158 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.039 It will become a self fulfilling prophecy of your doing exactly what you thought 159 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.360 it was going to be. So there's an element of you having to take 160 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.399 this as a This is an audition, it's a it's a springboard, it's 161 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.840 a way for you to be, you know, taken out of what you 162 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.480 would do every day for a little bit of time or a lot of time 163 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:46.200 to demonstrate how you are able to impact positively the rest of the business. 164 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.360 Because if you're doing a role that is not one of these, if you're 165 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.519 just doing an individual contributor role, chances are you don't have a ton of 166 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:58.159 time to influence people and train people and coach people and help them get better 167 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.679 at their jobs because you're doing your job. You might have a little bit. 168 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.960 These are the roles where you are given a lot of time to do 169 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.720 that. And if you focus on, you know, the counting of the 170 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.600 money and unlocking of the building, then that's what it will be for you, 171 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.720 and that's all it will be. And if you don't like doing the 172 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.320 leadership aspects of it anyway, then then maybe you'll fit right into this. 173 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.639 But if you are looking at this from a standpoint of being able to impact 174 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.360 culture and impact people and help people accomplish the goals they want to accomplish and 175 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.840 move up within their career. If this is something that is that is appealing 176 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.759 to you, you need to look at the roles as something broader than that, 177 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.320 as a way to give you that platform to say, hey, you 178 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.080 know what, a lot of this is blank slate stuff from a from a 179 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:43.200 time standpoint. How you make the most of it is on you, and 180 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.759 and and you are being tested in that same moment by people who are watching 181 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.320 going let's see what Chris does with this. Let's see what Lorenzo does with 182 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.840 this. We've given him a platform. Yes, he knows how to unlock 183 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.960 a building, but anybody can do that. How does he influence people? 184 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.360 How does he impact people? And if you if that is what's appealing to 185 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:07.240 you, then it becomes significantly easier to let go of whatever you were doing 186 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.320 in your day to day and the monotony or the boringness of the of the 187 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:15.080 administrative stuff becomes I think, less boring and less monotonous. Well it's funny, 188 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.759 yeah, I think even in the in you were talking about kind of 189 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:24.600 like the job description thing and talking about uh, just just what is the 190 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.879 role and is a list of accountability things? And it's so funny because the 191 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.039 other day somebody has sent me a job description they wanted me to read over, 192 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.360 and that's exactly what it was. It was like eighteen points and it 193 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.399 was just like, you know, lead a team of approximately x amount of 194 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.519 employees. You know, be responsible and accountable for the profitability bob. But 195 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:43.440 like it was all these types of things. My initial thought was like, 196 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.200 why can't we be radically honest about this? Like, what I would love 197 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:52.159 to see is something that says this job is hard and requires a lot of 198 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.919 hours, right, because we have big dreams, right, we know that 199 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.799 we don't have the staffing that a larger petitor would, but what we do 200 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:05.799 have is a commitment to do amazing things and the grit to go do them. 201 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:11.360 If you have if you have a life where you can only dedicate forty 202 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.879 hours per week, this job is not for you. But here's what you're 203 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.159 going to get. Right. We are competitive with our pay. We are 204 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.440 looking to bring in people that want to help us like kind of define what 205 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.200 we do. And we want those that want to want to be able to 206 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.759 have an influence on the things that we offer and how we offer them. 207 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.120 And then so it's like almost like completely flipping it upside down and just being 208 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.720 like, that's really what we want to say, right, But then we 209 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:45.240 feel like we can't or we feel like this job description has to be this 210 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.159 or that, like and and I'm like, but there's definitely a middle ground 211 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.279 in there somewhere. And I think even in this article, I don't know 212 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:56.639 anything about, you know, the primary care physician. I have like nothing, 213 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.200 like I avoid the doctor right right, but I had nothing here. 214 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.639 But I know that if everybody else in this industry is doing it this way, 215 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.799 and you come out and say, hey, we know that we're asking 216 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.000 you to take on additional responsibility, we like, like, basically in the 217 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.519 article it talks about these are the three deterrens. Right, take those deterns 218 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.519 and put them up front and be like, we know what we're asking you 219 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:22.159 to do. Yeah, don't gloss over them or pretend they don't exist, 220 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.919 because you're in the minds of every applicant for every person looking already, you 221 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.399 got it. We know that this is what you're thinking about this job, 222 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.440 or we know that this is what you're kind of giving up for a move 223 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.960 like this. So what we're gonna say is like, you're giving up this, 224 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.080 but this is what we really would like for you to help us do. 225 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.039 Like so like just being that, you know, kind of like that 226 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.360 clear. I think people read that they go like, well, well damn 227 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.200 if they're honest about this. I kind of like the vibe here, you 228 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.720 know what I'm saying, Like, I feel like I'm gonna walk into an 229 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:56.879 honest culture with people who get it, they understand what's going on, and 230 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.240 they're looking to do something different. And because it's different, I I have 231 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.200 a little bit more interest now versus everybody else who's approaching in every other single 232 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.440 way. So I think it's something to kind of call out in general when 233 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.159 you are not only like talking about roles from a leadership standpoint, but then 234 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.600 also like having to put them in writing right, And no one wants to 235 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:18.360 do that because they they want to put their best foot forward. So what 236 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.840 they do is they they glorify the things that are not glorifiable, Like they 237 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.440 try to make things bigger than what they seem for the things that are kind 238 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:28.600 of like the tactical, you know, boring things, you know, kind 239 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.799 of put the lipstick on a pig, so to speak. And and and 240 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.679 then and the same breath. They want to pretend there is no pig to 241 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.960 begin with, So you right, So they don't talk about the negatives of 242 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.120 it at all or even acknowledge it, and they think that a person reading 243 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.360 it will go if we if we don't, if we don't talk about this, 244 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.080 they won't know that these are the hard things, like yeah, right. 245 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.600 If they're in the industry already, they know what those things are, 246 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.639 and that's the first thing they're thinking. So you're right. If you're the 247 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.200 if you're the kind of person who's writing these job descriptions, or you're talking 248 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:02.240 to potential applicants and you acknowled all things up front, all you're doing is 249 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.320 showing that you are committed to transparency. And if you're committed to transparency when 250 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.799 things are not fun to talk about, then you are you're going to be 251 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:15.720 talking to applicants who will at least view the process differently. And I believe 252 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.799 more open to the idea of thinking, all right, let's give this a 253 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.480 shot, because I'm not going to be lied to here, like we're going 254 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.200 to be upfront about all this stuff, and if I have an issue or 255 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.840 if I need help or assistance or things aren't driving with me on something I 256 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.879 can go to somebody clearly because they're going to be real with me and they're 257 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:34.159 not going to say, well, this is what you've signed up for. 258 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.559 It's like, no, we're not duping people here. We want the right 259 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.720 people in the role, people who aren't going to burn out, and people 260 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.639 who want to make positive change. The only way to do that is to 261 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.120 make sure that you're up front and honest with them as opposed to trying to 262 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:48.519 like, you know, trick people into applying. Absolutely, and with that 263 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.440 it brings us to this episode's one minute hack. But first off, your 264 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.720 words from our sponsors, all right, for this episodes one minute hack, 265 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.720 here is I want you to do. First click on this article in the 266 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:02.639 podcast description and read it. There are two sections in here that are really 267 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:07.680 important to talk about around designing and defining roles and then the support that those 268 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.440 roles get once you know people are in the role. And the reason why 269 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.799 these are important is because you know you may or may not have authority or 270 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.599 responsibility over designing and defining what a role is from an actual you know, 271 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:26.400 corporate or legal standpoint, whatever the printed definition or responsibilities are. If you 272 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.400 do have control over that then by all means, make sure that you're defining 273 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.240 it honestly and clearly. If you don't have, you know, kind of 274 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.559 responsibility or the ability to make those changes, what you do have is the 275 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:41.480 the responsibility and the authority to figure out what tools and training and mentorship you 276 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.240 give people who are potentially applying for the role once they're in role, and 277 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.480 how you frame it in a way that says, this is what I'm committed 278 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.000 to doing for you if you want to take on the responsibility of this role, 279 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.519 if you want to move up into one of these leadership roles, I'm 280 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.920 committed to giving you these tools that are not listed in the job description, 281 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.039 and I'm giving committed to you this training and this mentorship, and I'll be 282 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.319 real and honest with you and transparent about what the potential pitfalls all here. 283 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.200 I'll be honest with you about what I saw when I was in the role 284 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.519 and the mistakes that I made, and how you can avoid making the exact 285 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.799 same mistakes. These are all things that can make these roles more enticing to 286 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:22.400 people, because they can they feel like they have allies that will allow them 287 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.400 to do a lot of what they love doing as opposed to you know, 288 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:29.079 kind of just looking at it as these these roles that take them out of 289 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.440 what they love doing. Uh, do this the right way, and you'll 290 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.920 have people who are applying for more roles on their own because they see what 291 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:38.039 kind of support that you are to people who are are currently in the roles. 292 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.559 Yeah. I think it's a great woman to hack and you know, 293 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:47.599 continuing to consider how we think about roles, how we communicate these roles, 294 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.839 how we how we support these roles. I think it's really important, especially 295 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.359 this day and age, where we're continuing to see you know, this kind 296 00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:00.680 of movement towards kind of transparency, radical honesty, whatever you want to call 297 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.599 it, and everything that that we're doing. And I think that we have 298 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.839 to meet that that movement, uh, in a way that shows and shares 299 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:14.480 that that we are very understanding of exactly what people are considering and thinking about 300 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.880 feeling about movements in their career and next jobs, next roles, those types 301 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.880 of things. Like I think sometimes we just we we have this projection that 302 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:29.119 everybody wants to move forward, and that you know, because maybe we didn't 303 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:30.759 get to ask a bunch of questions or because it was kind of like, 304 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.279 well, if you want that job, like you just got to deal with 305 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.559 the things that you like and then deal with the things that you don't like 306 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.160 and whatever that that that we have to maintain that same kind of approach when 307 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.680 it comes to the roles now and in the generation now that's working, and 308 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.640 I think that they're gonna they're asking for something different, they're asking for something 309 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.440 more, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that that being upfront 310 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.160 and saying like, yeah, this is exactly what the job is, and 311 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.240 this these are the things about the job that you know are are you know, 312 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.640 maybe monotonous, These are the things about out the job that we just 313 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.599 have to do. But you said this earlier in the show, and I 314 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.920 liked it. It's kind of like when we say things like well, like 315 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.680 you kind of like this is what you signed up for, but in fact 316 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.319 that's not what they signed up for, Like we have to get we have 317 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.359 to get better at that, We have to get better on closing that delta 318 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.559 and being upfront with the things of the job that are just a part of 319 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.839 the job that we all have to do. This sometimes we don't enjoy, 320 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.799 but then spend the time talking about what you're getting out of this over time 321 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:27.720 and now it's shaping you know, the work that you want to do to 322 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.440 get the future that you want to have. Right, And the last thing 323 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.960 I want to say about this, I think it's it's really important too, 324 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:38.319 is that you know, you don't get to be in a culture that is 325 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.839 good, that you enjoy coming to work. You know, at every day 326 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.160 you get to do your job, and this is something that allows you to 327 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.240 work life balance all all the positive things that you see about your current role. 328 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:55.799 This isn't a This isn't something you're just given without any responsibility. If 329 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.680 you like the way that culture is, you should feel a responsibility to kind 330 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.000 of help maintain that culture, to kind of put something into the culture. 331 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.839 And this is where those things happen. If if nobody in if nobody talented 332 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:12.799 and committed and you know, good at these skills ever stepped up, then 333 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:15.599 companies would be very short lived. You start out with great culture and it 334 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:18.759 would decline very quickly because no one wanted to move into these roles. So 335 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.640 I don't think there's anything wrong with saying to somebody, hey, you know 336 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.200 what you you you get a lot out of this organization and out of this 337 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.759 out of this role, and you clearly enjoy it here. There are other 338 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:34.480 people who would benefit from maintaining from this culture being maintained, including yourself, 339 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.359 meaning you will continue to want to come to work here if the culture is 340 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.960 maintained, and if the leadership is maintained, and if it remains an enjoyable 341 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.440 place to come you you can, and you should feel a responsibility to help 342 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.559 maintain that as opposed to just you know, letting it benefit you, you 343 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.400 know, pay it forward a little bit and see what it does for you 344 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.240 at the same time. Absolutely, and with that it brings us to the 345 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.640 end of this episode. This is Hackeging leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, 346 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:03.839 and we'll talk to you all next time.