WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Welcome back to the Pathlin, Chile for part two of our series about the 2 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:39.280 disappearance of Pamela June Ray. Robin, do you want to catch everyone up 3 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:42.960 on what we talked about in our previous episode? Yes, Well, Pamela 4 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.079 June Ray was a housewife and mother who lived in Georgia and decided to leave 5 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:51.240 on a vacation to Panama City Beach with her son and her daughter. They 6 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.560 arrived at a motel at around five am, and because they couldn't check in 7 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.439 yet it was too early, Pamela was presumably just going to wait there in 8 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:03.159 the parking lot until the manager arrived. Well, her children were sleeping in 9 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.959 the back seat, but at some point Pamela went missing, and it was 10 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.040 on until eight thirty when a motel employee noticed that the two children were sleeping 11 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.120 unattended and called the police. And even though the children were woken up, 12 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.280 they had no memory of what happened. They didn't know where their mother was. 13 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.480 But there were other people who were called hearing screaming sometime between five twenty 14 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.760 and five thirty, and there was also a patrol officer who thought he saw 15 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.799 Pamela walking away with a car with an unidentified man who was likely her abductor. 16 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:36.599 The case remained called for several years until a convicted murderer named Mark Reeby, 17 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:40.480 who was serving time in prison for the murder of a Florida convenience store 18 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:46.319 clerk named Donna Callahan, suddenly confessed that he was responsible for Pamela June Ray's 19 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.760 murder, and he also said that he was a serial killer who had killed 20 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:55.560 as many as thirteen women, But he later recanted his confession, and he 21 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.239 has refused to provide a conclusive answer to any of Pamela's relatives about what he 22 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.359 killed her. But Reebee's daughter has claimed that she has memories of when she 23 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.639 was four years old of going on a road trip where her father suddenly decided 24 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:10.680 to move and took them out of the U haul truck, and she had 25 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:15.759 memories of her father digging up some holes in a remote field in Illinois and 26 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:20.000 putting garbage bags inside, which she now fears could be the remains of Pamela 27 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.080 and some of Reebe's other victims. But they performed at the search of the 28 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.520 area and been unable to find anything, so at this moment, it's still 29 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:31.080 unclear if Rhebe was responsible for killing Pamela and she is still a missing person. 30 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.599 So now, even though this case has still never been solved, for 31 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:39.639 reasons unknown, the original UNSAWD Mystery segment is currently not available for viewing on 32 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:45.280 their official film Rise channel on Amazon Prime and YouTube. And that's a major 33 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:49.599 shame since we've had significant developments in recent years which may be pulling this case 34 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.400 ever so closer to a resolution. Since it originally aired only four months after 35 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.759 Pamela went missing, unsaw Mysteries covered the story as a shorter, four minute 36 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:04.240 special alert segment, but it still resonated with viewers. What was particularly scary 37 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.719 is that Pamela was seemingly abducted a short distance away from her children, who 38 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.319 managed to sleep through the whole thing, and it seems likely that a patrol 39 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.199 officer just happened to see Pamela in the company of the man who abducted her. 40 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.599 If that officer had passed through the area only a few minutes later, 41 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:23.560 then this case might have turned out differently. So back in twenty ten, 42 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:28.199 Pamela's daughter Brandy made an appearance and a threat about this case at the Unsolved 43 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.639 Mysteries message board. I'm always referencing from the sitcoms online for him. She 44 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.439 left a few comments under the username Brandy Ray and of course, given that 45 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.560 she was only five years old at the time her mother went missing, she 46 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:43.159 does not remember much other than being woken up that morning by the police. 47 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.319 In our last episode, I mentioned that a pair of extensive articles about this 48 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.840 case were published at the website Lost and Found blogs dot com, and the 49 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:57.400 writer Heather Grautman used to moderate the aforementioned Unsolved Mysteries message board under the name 50 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:01.360 Krystaldon one of the articles, folks is on Pamela's disappearance, while the other 51 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:05.400 delves into the background of the prime suspect, Mark Reebe. As part of 52 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.919 research, Heather was also able to speak with Pamela's sister, ron de de 53 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:14.039 Strong, as well as a retired special agent from the Florida Department of Law 54 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:18.360 Enforcement named Dennis Haley after he was sent to prison. Reebe had personally requested 55 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:21.759 to speak with Haley before he confessed to the murders of a dozen women. 56 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:28.399 I have to really sit back and think about what this person's psyche is and 57 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.560 what his purpose for doing this is. I think Reeby had been caught it 58 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.199 is a very high probability, like Jules mentioned last time, that based on 59 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:42.399 the fact that he did strangle and murder and discard of another woman at which 60 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:46.079 he was convicted for, that he had done this before, or he had 61 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:51.240 had many other encounters before and could have done other crimes after the death of 62 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:56.959 Donna, the first victim that he's convicted for. But you know he's playing 63 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.680 games with not only law enforcement, but with the family. You do have 64 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:08.079 Pamela's sister, Ronda Strong, who's begging for Reebe to say more details, 65 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.279 to give her more information, to let her know where her sister could be 66 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.639 located. And he doesn't shut down that conversation with her. He just refuses 67 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.279 to say, here's the information you need to help you, or I didn't 68 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.079 do it. I was lying when I said that I killed your sister. 69 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.000 And so I go back and forth of saying, is this a man who 70 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.120 wants attention? Is this someone who's manipulating and just wants time out of his 71 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:36.040 jail cell. But here we do know that Rebe gave them that clue that 72 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:41.160 said she had a single key in her hand when he approached her, and 73 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:45.079 we know that that was true when Pamela got out of the car, locked 74 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.800 it and then went to speak to this man that she was seen with, 75 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:53.959 So in her case, I'm leaning more towards he likely does have the information 76 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:59.040 that poor Ronda needs to solve her sister's case. And even his own daughter 77 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.360 is saying, how can I help? How can I make sure you get 78 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:06.680 answers? Because I actually think I was present when items from his previous crimes 79 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:13.560 could have been discarded so heavy. This is such a sad situation because if 80 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.000 someone could do the right thing now right he never has before, but if 81 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.480 Reebe would do the right thing now, these families could start to move forward 82 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:25.600 and heal the damage that he's caused. Yeah, we won't go to much 83 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:29.120 detail about this on this episode, but Dennis Haley has looked through a lot 84 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.240 of unsolved cold cases from Florida that he believes that Mark Reebe might be responsible 85 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.879 for, And at first, of course, he was excited that, hey, 86 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:40.680 he's confessing to all these murders. I could potentially close a whole bunch 87 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.600 of cold cases. But then he recants it and they're still officially unsolved to 88 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.480 this day. But I do know that Dennis Haley thinks that Reebe is probably 89 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.040 telling the truth. Maybe he hasn't killed a dozen women, but he does 90 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:56.160 believe that he's been responsible for additional murders that he's never been convicted for. 91 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.399 But before we talk more about this case, we needed to say discuss an 92 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.040 issue which was going on in Pamela's personal life at the time she went missing. 93 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:08.279 While I don't believe this issue has any connection to Pamela's disappearance, it 94 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.639 is frequently mentioned in a lot of the reporting of this case, so we 95 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.600 feel that we need to address it. In nineteen eighty nine, a bank 96 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.879 clerk accidentally wired around four hundred thousand dollars to an account which belonged to the 97 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:24.680 family's trucking company. At the time, Pamela's father, Ralph Bennett, was 98 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:28.120 owed money by the government for work that his company had performed for them, 99 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.839 so rather than inform the bank about their error, he let the money sit 100 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.800 in his account for a while before he convinced himself it was meant for him. 101 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:40.399 Ralph decided to use the money to purchase a condominium in Panama City Beach, 102 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.439 but when the mistake was eventually discovered, Ralph would be charged with theft 103 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:48.199 of mislaid property. Ralph agreed to plead guilty to the offense in exchange for 104 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.920 a sentence of ten years probation, but one of the conditions was that he 105 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:57.439 had to pay back all the money. After making consistent payments for a while, 106 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.439 Ralph began to fall behind, and since he still owed one hundred thousand 107 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.680 dollars, the District attorney's office became frustrated by the lack of progress. In 108 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:11.000 response, they decided to indict the rest of Ralph's family, including Pamela, 109 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.879 for bank fraud, since they were all listed as coworkers of his trucking company. 110 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.199 This occurred a short time before Pamela left on her vacation, and she 111 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.759 was technically out on bond at that time, But in spite of the fact 112 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.000 that the money had once been used to buy a condo in Panama City Beach, 113 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.040 investigators ultimately determined that these legal issues had no connection to her disappearance, 114 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.519 and the family eventually had the records expunged. It's just an unfortunate coincidence that 115 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.240 Pamela happened to go missing in Panama City Beach while all this was going on, 116 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.919 as the circumstances clearly seemed to indicate that she was a random victim who 117 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.559 was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Had you told me that 118 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.879 she left her children with dad and went down to Panama City, or that 119 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.039 she was trying to set up accounts or something like that, I could see 120 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:01.120 there being a connection. But here you feel like she's been there a lot 121 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.480 of stress. We know school's getting ready to start again and her husband's working, 122 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:07.840 and she said, I've got to get out of here right like that. 123 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.399 That's a lot to be under legal pressure and to whether whether you did 124 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.399 it or not, right, but that's a lot of pressure. And she's 125 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.120 saying, I need a break with my babies. I'm gonna make an all 126 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.519 night drive. I'm gonna go check on my brother, who's been struggling with 127 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.080 all this as well. Probably made some really bad decisions, but he's still 128 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:30.000 my brother. And she just wants to catch her breath, and she makes 129 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:35.240 that drive. She gets to the motel early to check in, and she's 130 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.559 never seen again. And her kids are woken up and asked, where's your 131 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.799 mom and they don't know. So if her kids hadn't been with her, 132 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.600 I could maybe see investigators kind of leaning more towards this angle and looking into 133 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.440 it deeper. But I don't feel like there's any link. It's just a 134 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:54.159 very bizarre circumstance where you say, wow, there were actually some legal issues 135 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.360 at the time, which you believe it or not. Some really great families 136 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.600 have some legal issues going on, so you never know what's going on behind 137 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.480 the scenes. But I don't think they're linked. You can have legal issues 138 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.320 and still be the victim of an opportunistic predator exactly. Well, whatever legal 139 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.720 problem was Ralph Bennett might have faced for spending money which did not belong to 140 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:18.279 him, that doesn't change the fact that he was a tireless advocate for his 141 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.320 daughter, as he made countless trips from Georgia to Panama City Beach to hand 142 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:28.120 out Missing Persons flyers and spread awareness about the case. But Ralph also had 143 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.639 to endure a pretty painful experience when he went to visit Mark Reebe's mother during 144 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:37.039 the spring of nineteen ninety nine. By this point, Riebe had already confessed 145 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:41.039 his involvement in Pamela's disappearance, and he just happened to phone his mother from 146 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:43.879 prison while Ralph was there. She demanded that her son speak with Ralph, 147 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:48.480 and when Ralph got on the phone, Riebe actually told him that he killed 148 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.320 his daughter. Hearing this caused Ralph to drop on the floor in a state 149 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.399 of shock, and he would succumbed to a fatal heart attack just a few 150 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.559 months later. The fact that Raebe said this to a victim's father and a 151 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:03.480 since go on to recant his confession to Pamela's murder, leaving everyone uncertain about 152 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:09.360 whether or not he actually did it, comes across as particularly cruel. If 153 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.360 this case has one bright spot, it's that Reebe's family has developed a close 154 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:18.200 relationship with Pamela's family, as the majority of his relatives are sympathetic towards their 155 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.879 situation and have condemned Reebe's actions and want him to come clean and reveal the 156 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.559 truth about everything he did. So he told his own mother and then got 157 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.360 on the phone with Ralph and said, yeah, I did kill your daughter. 158 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.159 And now he's recanting it and he's already told law enforcement. Yeah, 159 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.440 exactly, Like it was just unfortunate coincidence that Ralph happened to be visiting his 160 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.679 mother when he phoned. But it just seems such a sadistic thing to do 161 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:45.279 It'd be one thinking he was telling the truth. I wanted to confess, 162 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.679 But the fact that he would put this poor man through such an ordeal and 163 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.279 then change his mind is just sickening. And what's really weird is if you're 164 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:54.960 going to tell your mother, like, Okay, let's say you're a dirty 165 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:00.320 scoundrel. You still might have a really deep love for your mom. Wants 166 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.000 your mom to not think you're a monster, and so I'd probably be like, 167 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:05.039 mom, I didn't do it, Like whatever you hear is not real, 168 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.879 right, and then go on and do whatever you want with law enforcement. 169 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.840 But he's like letting his mom know, yeah, I did do it, 170 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:16.480 and tells her poor father on the phone too that he did it. 171 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.320 That's I'm losing any doubt I had. You've got to believe he did it. 172 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.399 Like you said, most people would try to shield their mothers from the 173 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.559 stadistic acts that they committed. But the fact that he's telling his mother that 174 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:35.480 he did it would be the greatest indicator to me personally that he did it. 175 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.879 I mean, people lie to family members of victims all the time and 176 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:45.120 situations like that, but when you couple famla Junere's father being told this as 177 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.600 well as Reeve's mother. It just looks like he absolutely did do this, 178 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.120 and I just want to apologize if anybody hears any weird sounds during the podcast. 179 00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:01.000 There is some protests happening in downtown Vancouver tonight. Our podcast generates protests. 180 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:07.919 That's how conversion. Officially, Reebe has only been charged and convicted of 181 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.600 the murder of Donna Callahan, but there are some people who believe he might 182 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.080 be a full fledged serial killer who has killed as many as thirteen women. 183 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.320 But not only has Reeby recanted all the confessions he made to those murders, 184 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.600 he is now even denying responsibility for the death of Donna Callahan, even though 185 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.679 his half brother William Alex Wells, has always maintained that Reebe was the one 186 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.159 who went through the act of fatally strangling Donna Rhebe claims that it was Wells 187 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:39.000 who actually killed her. In twenty seventeen, Reebe agreed to be interviewed on 188 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.279 the debut episode of the British true crime TV series serial Killer with Piers Morgan. 189 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.799 He claimed that the reason he falsely confessed to all these murders was because 190 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.840 he had made an arrangement with law enforcement to quote unquote protect his son, 191 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.399 and he decided to recant when they reneedged on their deal, but when Pierce 192 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.159 Morgan kept pressing him about the issue, Raebe dis to walk out of the 193 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:07.279 interview. These confessions were originally obtained by retired FDL special agent Dennis Haley, 194 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.600 who has been investigating Reebe for over two decades. Well. Haley personally believes 195 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.440 that some of the confessions Rebe made were false. He does suspect him of 196 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.879 being responsible for at least seven murders, including that of Pamela June Ray, 197 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.639 because in some of these cases, Reebe supposedly shared details that only the killer 198 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.759 could have known. For instance, Rehebe said that Pamela was only carrying a 199 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:33.519 single key when he abducted her, a detail which seems to be supported by 200 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.919 the fact that all of Pamela's keys besides one, were found insider vehicle. 201 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.679 If you want to learn more about the other crimes Reebe is alleged to have 202 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.759 been involved in, we'd recommend checking out the article Mark reebe Sins of the 203 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:50.039 Father, which is published at Lost and Found blogs dot com. Though we'll 204 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.080 be discussing one of these crimes momentarily, So that's the part for me. 205 00:14:54.279 --> 00:15:00.240 The key is one of the ones where I'm deeply convicted that he did do 206 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.919 this because remember, people said that they saw her lock her car with the 207 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.960 two kids in it, and her other keys were later found inside the vehicle, 208 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.000 and so for him to know that unless they had published in a newspaper 209 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.559 article, or unless it said, you know, keys were found inside the 210 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.840 vehicle except for one, you know, unless that had been said somewhere, 211 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.200 how would he know that? And he even was going as far as to 212 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:30.159 describe this opportunistic moment where he had needed money, he told his wife to 213 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.879 pull the car over, and it just so happens that this single mother is 214 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.559 standing outside of her car, likely looking for someone that can help her check 215 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.600 into the hotel. So, oh man, there's very little doubt that this 216 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:50.120 man had something to do with her disappearance. And one thing about Piers Morgan, 217 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:52.519 I'm sure you know that he is not the most likable person in the 218 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.480 world too. When you see him, when you see him interviewing Mark Reebe 219 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.679 and Reebe walks out, you're actually thinking how rude, Like You're actually on 220 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.639 Peers Morgan's side for once, But Before we talk any more about Reebe, 221 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.360 I want to briefly discuss the other potential suspect that popped up on the radar 222 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:12.120 during the early stages of the investigation, and that's Andrew Paul Henry, who 223 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:18.200 allegedly kidnapped and raped another woman in Florida five months earlier, though those charges 224 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.559 were later dropped. When this crime was committed, the perpetrator apparently told the 225 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.039 victim he would kill her, but she somehow convinced him to let her go. 226 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.240 So if Henry was the abductor and he decided to do the same thing 227 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.159 to Pamela, then I can see him not wanting to run the risk of 228 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.559 letting his victim go this time around. Even though this other crime took place 229 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.759 in Chipley, Henry lived in Panama City, and a man matching his description 230 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.399 was seen sitting outside the Wilheighte Motel in the hours prior to Pamela's disappearance. 231 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.440 Otherwise, there isn't much information available about Henry, though at the time he 232 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.960 was charged with the attack in Chipley, he was already facing charges for violating 233 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.600 a pre trial release agreement by allegedly battering his wife, so he does not 234 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.240 sound like a model citizen. If Henry did abduc Pamela, there's not much 235 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.720 else that could be done since he's now deceased. But in the grand scheme 236 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:14.599 of things, Mark Reeby definitely seems like the more promising suspect. Absolutely, 237 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.960 he does I think Henry. It's interesting because Henry does have a abduction and 238 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.759 sexual assault that was opportunistic as well on his record. He wasn't convicted of 239 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:29.440 it, but he does have this mark against him, and again has some 240 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.359 other kind of seedy behaviors as well that have been noted. But I'm wondering 241 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.519 which one of those two men is six foot tall and one point fifty because 242 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:45.319 your girl over here is five to eight and weighs more than that. So 243 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.119 I'm wondering how skinny was this six foot tall man? And do both of 244 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:56.160 those men match that six foot one hundred and fifty pounds, you'd be really 245 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.480 skinny. It's six feet tall and one hundred and fifty pounds. That is 246 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.599 really thin. I mean, I know that the officer saw him from a 247 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.359 distance, so maybe he could be inaccurate, but yeah, that gives an 248 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.039 indication that he's probably seen some like skinny drug addicts. Before and figured, 249 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.240 Well, I know I'm able to tell the exact weight of people like that, 250 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.799 so I'm guessing that it is accurate, but it's never been confirmed if 251 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.440 Reeby or Henry were around that weight back in nineteen ninety two. Like, 252 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.359 just for reference, I'm five feet nine and I'm one hundred and twenty pounds, 253 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:32.640 and I'm an extremely small built person, like a very very thin person, 254 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.720 and this guy is what like three four inches taller and just a little 255 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.599 bit heavier. So I'm assuming that his body type is something like mine, 256 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.920 like very very thin, like the guy from Breaking Bad. You know, 257 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.319 the guy I'm talking about, the really thin guy from Breaking Bad, a 258 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.680 guy called skinny feet. Yes, skinny pee, Yes, I'm thinking a 259 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.640 build like that. Well, to clarify, Pamela was only five foot three 260 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.480 and one hundred and ten pounds, So even though that's a pretty skinny for 261 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.720 a tall guy, I still think he would have been able to overpower Pamela. 262 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.440 Oh, for sure, she's pretty petite at that size. Robin, 263 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:11.039 do we know which one of these men would fit that description more? Not? 264 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.279 Really? No, Like you see Mark Reebe today in interviews, he 265 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.519 doesn't look overly skinny but I can't say if he was that skinny back in 266 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.039 nineteen ninety two, and I haven't really seen much about Henry's description at all, 267 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.839 so I don't know if either of them are a strong match. And 268 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:27.640 people tend to gain a lot of weight as they age, too, so 269 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:32.839 just because he's not that thin now doesn't mean he wasn't then, Oh for 270 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:34.000 sure, and he could have been an addict at the time or things like 271 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.599 that as well. For sure, we know that the passing patrol officer saw 272 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:42.359 Pamela's likely abductor, but it sounds like he was too far away to get 273 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:48.119 a good enough look in order to positively identify him as Henry Reebe or anyone 274 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.319 else. I know that Rabe specifically mentioned that he and his wife were driving 275 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:55.960 a red Pontiac Firebird, but he said that she parked near the back of 276 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.319 the building when he approached Pamela, so the vehicle may have been out of 277 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.240 the officer's life line of sight. And incidentally, this firebird was never seized 278 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.039 by law enforcement, and its current whereabouts are unknown. The way the Wilheype 279 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.960 Motel was laid out is that the office Pamela parked in front of was located 280 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.480 separately from the rooms next to the main parking lot. According to the officer, 281 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.319 Pamela locked her car before following the man in that direction, so it 282 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.000 makes sense that he would have used this opportunity to abduct Pamela and force her 283 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:27.240 into another vehicle before fleeing the scene. You have to wonder what the man 284 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.519 could have said to Pamela to convince her to follow him, But perhaps he 285 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:34.000 was pretending to be an employee and told Pamela he had a room ready that 286 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:38.519 he wanted to show her. Rhebe's story is that he selected Pamela at random 287 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:42.079 because he wanted to rob someone. But if he's telling the truth, the 288 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:47.079 ironic thing is that she left her purse in the vehicle. However, since 289 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:51.039 there is a photograph of Reebe's wife wearing what appears to be Pamela's ring, 290 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.559 it's possible that this is the only thing that they stole from her. You've 291 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.000 got to be kidding me, So they have positively identified the fact that Rhebey's 292 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.359 wife is wearing Pamela's ring, which is the only thing you would have on 293 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.680 you if you locked your car and you had your purse and your keys and 294 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.400 everything else in the car. The only thing on my body would be possibly 295 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:17.839 earrings, a necklace, and my wedding ring. And if you abducted me 296 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:22.319 and took my body and disposed of my body, you then had the nerve 297 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.200 to not only keep my ring, but to flaunt it on your wife's hand. 298 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:33.039 That is very, very disturbing and very callous, I mean, to 299 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.759 be fair, we don't know one hundred percent certainty if it was Pamela's ring. 300 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:38.759 It just kind of looked that way in the photograph. But I'm assuming 301 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.480 that if it was that that she has probably gotten rid of it a long 302 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.960 time ago. Because it's potential evidence in a cold case. It seems like 303 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:51.799 there's a strong likelihood, given all that we know about Rebe and the very 304 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.359 I think it's highly likely that he's the person that is responsible, and to 305 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.240 take something like a ring as a trophy, like it's not It wouldn't be 306 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.759 like something that's unheard of that a killer would give a trophy that they took 307 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.319 from a victim to their wife or partner. Correct, Like, there's been 308 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.240 lots of other cases where we've seen this happen. Oh yes, And another 309 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:17.119 one is actually the Tommy Ziegler case where it's been alleged that his wife's brother, 310 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.599 Perry Edwards Junior, might have been the real killer, and Eunice's family 311 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:26.400 ring was missing and apparently Perry Junior gave it to his granddaughter many years later, 312 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.599 which is why they think is a strong piece of evidence that he was 313 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.160 the one who killed her. Now, we previously mentioned that Donna Callahan, 314 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.720 the one victim we know Rebe murdered, was briefly mentioned during the Unsolved Mystery 315 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:42.480 segment about the nineteen to ninety disappearance of convenience store clerk Deborah Poe, who 316 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:45.680 has still not been found at this day, Well believe it or not, 317 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:51.640 Even though Reeby never confessed to Deborah's murder, Dennis Haley believes that he might 318 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.039 also be involved in that crime if you recall the details of that case. 319 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.480 Shortly before Deborah was reported missing, an eyewitness reported walking into the store and 320 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:04.400 seeing an unidentified man behind the counter who sold her a pack of cigarettes. 321 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.480 Since he was wearing a T shirt for the heavy metal band Megadeth and has 322 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:15.200 never been identified Unsaw Mysteries, fans have nicknamed him Megadeth Guy. Well, 323 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.599 according to Dennis Haley. This witness later looked at a photo lineup and picked 324 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.440 out Reebe's half brother, William Alex Wells, who had been Reade's accomplice when 325 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.559 they murdered Donna Callahan. If you look at current photos of Wells, he 326 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:32.920 doesn't look anything like Megadeth guy at all. But there is a blurry photo 327 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.480 of a younger Wells in the afore mentioned Sins of the Father article from Lost 328 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.680 and Found blogs dot com, and he had long hair back then and seems 329 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.839 to have a closer resemblance. However, the article published excerpts of some emails 330 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.359 that Wells had sent to Ronda Strong in recent years, and he denies involvement 331 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.079 in Deborah Poe's disappearance, stating quote, I've spoken several times with investigators concerning 332 00:23:56.119 --> 00:24:00.279 the Deborah Poe case, and I'll tell you the same thing I told them. 333 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.440 Not only was I on house arrest in Walton County, where my every 334 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.279 move was monitored by probation and parole, tax records and business records will show 335 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.079 that I have never been employed in Orange County, even though my picture was 336 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:17.400 picked in a photo pack that is designed to get certain people picked the investigators 337 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.960 knew it was impossible for me to have been in Orlando during that time. 338 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:25.960 End quote. Now Wells is the one who actually came forward and admitted that 339 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.240 they killed Donna, correct, So I mean he has a background of coming 340 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.400 forward and saying like, man, my conscience is heavy, this is what 341 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.759 happened, and he told the truth, which is what got Rebe arrested in 342 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.119 the first place. Do you think, like you said earlier in episode one, 343 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.160 that the fear of the death penalty if he did confess to his second 344 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.480 murder would be enough to make him stay quiet, or do you think at 345 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.640 this point he's trying to truly clear his conscience and admitted to what he had 346 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.440 participated in and is telling the truth that he didn't have anything to do with 347 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.119 this one. It's pretty convincing what he's saying, that I have this, 348 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:03.400 this, and this to back it up that I had nothing to do with 349 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:07.599 it, versus Reebe, who's on this range just saying like, ah, 350 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:10.440 I killed all these people, right, Like, I'm more inclined to trust 351 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.640 what Wells is saying. Well, yeah, because the reason that Wells was 352 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.920 implicated is that he first confessed to being involved in the murder of Donna Callahan 353 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.240 in a Bible study class in prison. And that's what happens to some of 354 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:25.960 these people, is that they get incarcerated and they find religion. And I 355 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.920 think he legitimately wanted to clear his conscience, which is why he eventually led 356 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.680 the authorities to Donna's remains. And I think that if he had been responsible 357 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.279 for Dever's disappearance, he could have confessed right then and there, because he 358 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.319 did make a plea deal. He pleaded no contest to ensure he would not 359 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.680 receive the death penalty for any of these crimes. So it doesn't make much 360 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.000 sense for him to withhold information and not confess to another crime when he's already 361 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.039 got two life sentences for Donna's murder. But it is interesting to think. 362 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.000 I personally don't believe that Wells is the infamous Megadeth guy, but it makes 363 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.720 me wonder could Mark Reeby have been involved? Could he been worked outside in 364 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:06.119 the car and had something to do with Debrah's disappearance. Well, if what 365 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:10.599 Wells wrote in his emails is true, then it's unlikely he was involved in 366 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:17.559 Debor Poe's disappearance. But what's particularly interesting is that Reeb initially attempted to implicate 367 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.599 Wells in Pamela June Ray's murder. As an example, Reebe once shared a 368 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.400 story with Agent Haley about how he'd followed Wells into the woods and watched him 369 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.680 dig up the bodies of Donna Callahan and Pamela June Ray before moving them to 370 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:36.640 another location. But we know this story cannot be true since Wells was already 371 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.400 in prison for another crime when Pamela went missing in August of nineteen ninety two, 372 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.880 and at no point would he have ever been in any position to dig 373 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.559 up Pamela's body. So this is why Hailey suspects that Reevee might have been 374 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:55.680 using Wells as a surrogate in his confessions where he falsely claims to have witness 375 00:26:55.720 --> 00:27:00.160 Wells doing these things that he himself had done. Yeah, I don't one 376 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.920 thing that Wells had anything to do with this, which means Reeby probably didn't 377 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:10.000 either. When you have Reeby sharing these stories where he's making false claims and 378 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:15.400 then somewhere he's making accurate claims, it's making it easier for Dennis Haley to 379 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.119 pick through and say, like, okay, look, in the case we 380 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.200 have here with Pamela, we get details that he should not have known. 381 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.799 But then you also have cases where he's telling us, oh, we did 382 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.359 this and this, and Wells is going I was in prison at that time, 383 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.680 like I clearly didn't have anything to do with it. So I have 384 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.559 to lean with what Robin's saying. Wells was confessing to clear his conscience and 385 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:41.160 to get closer to Christ, which I do believe is very, very possible 386 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.960 for people in prison to do horrible acts and to say at the end of 387 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.160 the day the grace that God is valuable to them and that changing their life 388 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.200 is something that they need for their salvation and they want it. So if 389 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:57.079 he's going to go that route and Bible study in prison and he confesses to 390 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.119 a murder, why not come clean with all of it so that you can 391 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:06.000 truly get redemption and be saved and you know, get your salvation instead of 392 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.559 just saying like, oh, I'm going to confess to one of my wrongdoings. 393 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.200 You already went all the way. Let's just clear clear our conscience here. 394 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.440 So I am going to have to say that, you know, Reebe's 395 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.279 making stretches and just saying I'm going to take the situation with Wells, and 396 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:23.039 I'm going to just keep creating these falsehoods in certain cases, but I can't 397 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:26.960 look away from him. In Pamela's case, I just think he fits the 398 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.680 bill, and he said too much to too many people to not be the 399 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.680 one who killed her. Yeah, it's weird to think, like the power 400 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.440 of Christ compels you to confess to one murder but then not the other. 401 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:44.079 The idea of partial confession seems odd if the motivation truly is to be a 402 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:48.039 better Christian and to unburden yourself. But yeah, I agree, there's just 403 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.480 like nobody better than Rebe to be responsible for this, Like a lot of 404 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.240 these other guys found at first glance like oh yeah, this could be a 405 00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.559 possible suspect. But when we go back to Rebe confessing to his mother and 406 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.759 Pamela's father and all of the other things that line up, as well as 407 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.079 his appearance and stuff, it just like who else could it really and truly 408 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:15.240 be. Wells has also provided an interesting story which seems to implicate Reebe in 409 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:19.480 Pamela's case. In nineteen ninety three, when they were both being investigated for 410 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:25.559 Donna Callahan's disappearance, Reebe went to visit Wells in prison and allegedly told him 411 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:27.799 that he paid a visit to the wooded area where Donna's remains were buried, 412 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.559 but decided to leave them there because he believed police would never find her. 413 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.119 However, Reebe then said he quote unquote had to move the other lady, 414 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:40.680 and when Wells asked who he was referring to, he replied, quote the 415 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:45.599 one from Panama City with the kids. Well Reebe's statement about leaving Donna's remains 416 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.599 where they were rang true because when Wells led the authorities to her body years 417 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:53.039 later, the original burial site had not been tampered with, meaning she was 418 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:57.519 never moved from that spot since nineteen eighty nine. Wells also claims that on 419 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:02.079 the same day Rebe visited him in prison, he had gone to a woman's 420 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.599 house and asked to use her shower because he was very sweaty and dirty. 421 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.079 Reeby told her that he even helping someone work on a transmission, but she 422 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.839 said it looked like he had dirt on I'm rather than oil or transmission fluid. 423 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.160 So could this mean that Reeby dug out Pamela from the location he originally 424 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.279 buried her? And moved her remains to another location. Yes, I think 425 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:29.000 it very well. Could I really feel deeply convicted about Wells saying I need 426 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.480 to unburden myself from the sins I've done and I want to come clean. 427 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:38.200 I want to help police the best I can. I want redemption and forgiveness. 428 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.599 And you know he's sitting there going like, Okay, so here's more 429 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:45.759 information you can have. Here's evidence that I wasn't present here, so you 430 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:49.039 can quit looking here. I mean, there doesn't seem to be much behavior 431 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:56.680 of Wells that is concerning after he comes clean and helps hit secure conviction, 432 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.640 agains himself and Rebe, and it's actually like he's trying to help law enforcement 433 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.279 with the best information he can. He also knows Reebe's a terrible person. 434 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:10.640 He also knows he really really made an awful mistake and or committed an awful 435 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.440 crime and has been redeemed from that, and so like he seems to be 436 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.920 doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, which is the right thing at 437 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.720 this point. So I'm tending to really feel that if he says Rebe came 438 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.880 and said I had to move the other lady, and he's going what are 439 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.480 you talking about? And he specifically said the Panama City woman with the kids. 440 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:37.720 Come on, what's his motivation to lie at this point? Yeah, 441 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.319 I mean, it's one thing if Reeby had confessed like that while use in 442 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.200 prison, but for him to say this to Wells while he's still a free 443 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.920 man and hasn't been linked to any murders so far, and there's no reason 444 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.440 for Wells to lie about this as well. So yeah, that definitely gives 445 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.079 a lot of credence to the idea that he moved Pamela's body. And you 446 00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.000 know, this could have actually been what prompted Wells to confess in the first 447 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.279 place, because he's sitting there talking to a man who doesn't to have any 448 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:06.319 concern he's possibly killing other people, and Wells is going, Man, I 449 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:10.319 got mixed up with the wrong stuff and made awful decisions and hurt somebody and 450 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.839 took their life, which I had no right to do. But to redeem 451 00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:16.200 mine, I have to get on the right path. And here's this man 452 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:19.200 saying, Hey, not only did we kill that one lady, but I 453 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.440 also had to move this other woman. I could really see that weighing on 454 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.319 Wells going, like I got to confess to this mess, and I got 455 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:30.599 to get away from this guy. Like he's right now still Rebe's confidant and 456 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.599 someone that's coming to visit him in prison. Very bizarre dynamic if you were 457 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.319 just going to start lying about this man, I think he wants away from 458 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:40.759 him and it scared him to think. While there's multiple people that are getting 459 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:45.880 hurt by this person, you wonder what their dynamic was. It was it 460 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.519 like a Leonard Lake and like a Robert Ang type dynamic where you got you 461 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.279 got. Basically Robert Ang was the submissive in that relationship. Right, You've 462 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:59.079 got the dominant and the submissive. So I'm wondering if Wells was more of 463 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.519 the submissive role and Reebe was more the dominant. I think it's very possible. 464 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.119 Well, remember when he confessed to Pamela's murder, Rebe changed his original 465 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:13.240 story about what he did with her body, at first claiming that he buried 466 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.559 her before he said that he dumped her in the ocean. This theory also 467 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:22.559 takes on greater significance when you remember the story from Rhebe's daughter Jelena about him 468 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:28.000 moving to Illinois and having his children dig holes in order to bury some garbage 469 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.640 bags. Indeed, if those bags just contained your ordinary run of the mill 470 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.039 trash, i am not sure why Reebe would bother taking them on an eight 471 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.279 hundred mile trip and then go to the trouble of burying them rather than just 472 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:45.960 dumping them somewhere. Years ago, Jelena's two siblings spoke to Ronda and confirmed 473 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.079 that they remembered this incident having taken place. Well. A recent search of 474 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.720 the property where these bags were buried turned up nothing. It's worth mentioning that 475 00:33:54.759 --> 00:34:00.440 the Macon County Sheriff's Department had very limited funds for this. We were only 476 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.039 able to spend one day digging up a small area on a large piece of 477 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.880 property, so that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't anything there, and they 478 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:14.599 have talked about performing further searches when it's viable. It's unsettling to think about 479 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:19.760 the possibility that Pamela's remains are buried on the property several states from where she 480 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:23.119 originally went missing from. But you also have to consider the fact that most 481 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:29.360 of the murderers reb is suspected of being responsible for are not from cases involving 482 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:34.079 missing persons, so could those bags have contained the remains of other missing victims 483 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.039 we don't even know about. I think they absolutely could. But the idea, 484 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.039 remember he said he had to move somebody, so is it possible that 485 00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:45.679 he did bring her remains to his home and put him in those barrels or 486 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.719 the trash bags. He also had his own children dig the holes. According 487 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.880 to his daughter, that's really messed up. That's really disgusting that you would 488 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.920 have your children tell them they're digging a garden and then have them watch you 489 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.960 dispose of these bags you just traveled hundreds of miles with. And she was 490 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.840 four at the time. I mean, that's just crazy. And I mean, 491 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.159 I do not believe Julene is lying. I believe she is telling the 492 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:14.079 truth. But I also still wonder, because she was so young at the 493 00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.239 time, what is her memory like. Is it's still reliable? But I 494 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.400 imagine this is one of those things that if it happens when you're a child, 495 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.239 you'll have a vivid memory of it, especially with the other children back 496 00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:28.920 her up that this indeed did happen. There must have been something so incongruous 497 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.920 about dad traveling with these weird trash bags, and something just didn't sit right 498 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.840 in her four year old brain enough so that it made a big impression. 499 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.079 I guess the real wild card in this case is Reebee's wife, whom he 500 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:46.440 claims was present in their Pontiac Firebird when he abducted and murdered Pamela. There 501 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:51.400 really isn't all that much information available about her, so I have no idea 502 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.960 how thoroughly she has been investigated. But Journey, his email exchanges with Rhonda 503 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:59.679 Well, stated that even though there has never been any evidence to prove that 504 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:04.119 Repe's wife was complicit in any of his crimes, he does think it's possible 505 00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.400 she could have been a participant. The best way to describe Mark Reebe is 506 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:12.639 that he's an enigma, because while he's technically only being convicted of one murderer, 507 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.320 he could potentially be one of the worst serial killers in the history of 508 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:19.679 the United States. But, as I'm sure you're well aware, it's not 509 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:23.440 uncommon for convicted murderers who have nothing left to lose played games with the authorities 510 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.840 for the fun of it. Like we mentioned earlier, Reebe spoke to the 511 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.320 father of a missing woman on the phone and told him he had murdered his 512 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.559 daughter. But then he decided to recant his confession and deny any involvement. 513 00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.360 That's an incredibly manipulative thing to do, and Reebe has done the same thing 514 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:44.079 to the families of the other women he confessed to killing before he recanted. 515 00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:46.719 I know that Reebe threw a fit and walked out of that interview with Pierce 516 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.920 Morgan, but making himself look like the victim is part of his persona, 517 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:53.880 so you get the sense that he was getting off on the fact that a 518 00:36:53.920 --> 00:37:00.679 famous British TV personality wanted to interview him for a TV series about killers. 519 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.199 If Rebe was responsible for what happened to Pamela, then I have my doubts 520 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.400 that he will come clean and reveal where her remains are. And if this 521 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:12.719 case is solved, it will probably be through some other means. But thankfully 522 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.159 it sounds like investigators are still actively working on it and Pamela has not been 523 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:21.880 forgotten. So if you happen to have any information about the unsolved disappearance of 524 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.960 Pamela June Ray, please contact the Panama City each Police Department at eight five 525 00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:31.159 zero two three three five zero zero zero. That's eight five zero two three 526 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:37.599 three five zero zero zero, Jules Ashley, any final thoughts on this case. 527 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:44.440 The more disturbing cases because of multiple factors. You have a mom who 528 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.519 left on a trip with her two little ones, who are awoken by police 529 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.679 officers at eight thirty in the morning in a city that they're not familiar with 530 00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:57.280 and ask where's your mother? And their answer is, I don't know what 531 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.480 you're talking about. I don't know where she is, And and years and 532 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:07.039 years later their answers the same, I don't know where she is. But 533 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:12.559 there's so much information that leans towards who likely hurt her, which is Reeb, 534 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:17.519 and Reebe himself is the one who's placed himself in that situation, in 535 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:23.000 that circumstance. It's things like the key at the scene that he describes telling 536 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:30.000 his own mother that he killed her, talking about moving the woman with the 537 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.679 kids, moving her body after police are kind of suspecting him of another murder. 538 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:40.800 There's so many factors that are going into this man who's still today manipulating 539 00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:47.000 poor Pamela's family and his own children. His daughter is trying to help bring 540 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:52.360 justice to Pamela. That Reebe doesn't care. It's a game to him. 541 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:57.480 It's something that allows him pleasure and attention, and it's disgusting. But at 542 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:01.960 the end of the day, you do see the these amazing moments where Jelena, 543 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:08.920 his daughter, and Pamela's sister are able to connect and not only come 544 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:14.800 to an understanding, but to have a friendship and a partnership where they're saying, 545 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.119 I want justice for Pamela, I want to help right the wrongs of 546 00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.039 my father, and she wants to bring justice to her sister. It's things 547 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:28.760 like that in these moments, things were a child, a sibling, they're 548 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.519 able to say there is hope, there is optimism and grace in this horrific 549 00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:38.800 loss of this person that we love. And man, it's overwhelming to think 550 00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:43.360 her body hasn't been discovered and she hasn't been laid to rest. But I 551 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.159 think it's pretty clear what happened in this case. I wish there was someone 552 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:51.039 who could say I have additional information that can actually close the door so that 553 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:55.920 Reebee, who's an actual coward, has to face a court and a jury 554 00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.800 and the family and say your time's up. You play the game. You've 555 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:04.719 been the mastermind for all of these years, but guess what, You're not 556 00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:08.320 as strong as you think you're actually quite weak and now here's your consequence. 557 00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:14.239 That would just be the ultimate justice. No matter what the actual outcome was 558 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:19.039 there, just to say you're not in control would be so rewarding for the 559 00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:23.159 family. I think Rebe is exhibited that he's a pretty horrible human being. 560 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:28.079 He just likes to toy with law enforcement with the families. But when it 561 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.639 comes down to it, I think there's enough evidence for me personally to be 562 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:37.000 quite comfortable saying that I believe that he is responsible for what happened to Pamela 563 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.039 June Ray just I've got to move the lady's body for the one of the 564 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.599 kids from Florida, you know, those types of things. And then I 565 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.119 believe the Wells, all the things that he's saying are credible. He seems 566 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.800 to have found Jesus, and he seems to really be taking sharing this information 567 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:59.039 with law enforcement seriously. And I don't believe that he's fabricating things to try 568 00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:01.840 to blame Rebe. But I also believe that when Reebe talked about Wells and 569 00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:06.599 it wasn't possible that Wells could have been doing certain things, he literally was 570 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:10.679 using Wells as a surrogate to almost kind of like quasi confess or you know, 571 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.320 test the waters a little bit. I really do love that Julna, 572 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:21.000 mark Reeby's daughter, and Rohnda, Pamela's sister, we're able to find common 573 00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:23.280 ground, Like Ashley just talked about. I love that. I think there's 574 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:28.119 a lot of healing in that. It comes from both sides being able to 575 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:34.519 commiserate over your shared trauma. And I love that they've had that they've been 576 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.039 able to do that. But I just really wish there was some kind of 577 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:43.320 resolution here where we could go, Okay, good. Mark Reeby is being 578 00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:47.840 charged for the murder of Pamela June Ray, and the family deserves that because, 579 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:51.800 like you know, Ashley had said in her closing thoughts right at the 580 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:57.280 beginning, those little children going I don't know where my mother is, and 581 00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:01.320 to be adults and to still have that same sentiment, and to know that 582 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:06.719 Mark Reebe is the one that likely holds the keys to that, it's just 583 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:10.360 so infuriating because he's been toying with everybody all along, and it would be 584 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:15.880 so nice to see this family be able to get some kind of piece here. 585 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.880 Yeah. I remember watching this on Unsolved Mysteries when it aired over thirty 586 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.599 years ago, and I didn't really envision that it would have such a connection 587 00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.719 to the Deborah po case and the murders of Donna Callahan, even though they 588 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.320 both took place in Florida. But it seemed like we had about two decades 589 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:32.880 whether we're on any strong leads, and then all of a sudden, this 590 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.320 guy, Mark Reeby gets charged with Donna Callahan's murder and starts taking credit for 591 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:42.880 having killed Pamela. And even though he's recanded the confession, there is a 592 00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.599 lot of credible evidence, like he's provided like we just said, he provided 593 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:50.280 a description of Pamela's key. We have his daughter saying that he was bearing 594 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.800 some trash bags, and I can totally see him deciding to recand his confessions 595 00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.199 because Florida has the death penalty and he's thinking to himself, well, wait 596 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:01.280 a minute's this on me. So, even though I love getting this new 597 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.400 attention, I don't want to reveal too much and potentially go to the electric 598 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:09.960 chair or the gas chambers. But yeah, it definitely seems most likely that 599 00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.119 he was responsible. I still think that the key to the case might be 600 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.000 Reebe's wife because it is kind of surprising that we don't know more about her. 601 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.800 But if he is telling the truth and she was present when this murder 602 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.880 took place, then she might be able to say what happened. She might 603 00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:30.559 be able to testify against him or possibly lead the authorities to Pamela's remains. 604 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.519 So it is a bit disappointing that we don't know more information. But I 605 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.679 do think that like Reebe will probably never fully confess. He'll try to toy 606 00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:43.880 with people, maybe give like surrogate confessions like he's done with his half brother 607 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.400 William Alex Wells, just to make it sound like that he's describing things that 608 00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:52.800 Wells did, even though he might be like confessing to stuff that he himself 609 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:57.480 has done. Is just his way of toying with the authorities. But yeah, 610 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.199 it's he definitely seems like the most logical suspect to done this, And 611 00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.679 it's just a horrifying nightmare the fact that this woman could go missing and be 612 00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.760 abducted only a short distance away from her children while her children are sleeping, 613 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.840 and that they have to wake up and discover that their mother is gone and 614 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.119 that they will never see her again. So yeah, even though I don't 615 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:19.519 know if Reebie will ever make a full confession. I do think that I 616 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.840 do hope that the Macon County Shriff's office does a more extensive dig up there 617 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:29.360 in Illinois to the spot where these trash bags are allegedly buried, because if 618 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.719 they're able to surge it more extensively, maybe they will eventually come across Pamela's 619 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:37.639 remains and we can finally close the book on this case for good. Robin, 620 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:38.880 do you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold 621 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:44.079 Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, 622 00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:49.079 and we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and 623 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:52.599 I also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up 624 00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:57.360 with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars tier tier two, 625 00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:01.719 we also offer monthly bonus episode modes in which I talk about cases which are 626 00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:06.880 not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, 627 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.519 and if you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollars tier. 628 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:15.920 One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes 629 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:20.400 of unsawved Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and then boot up 630 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.480 the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my 631 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:30.079 audio commentary playing in the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about 632 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.440 the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that 633 00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.800 I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if 634 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.639 you want to download a commentary track in which I make more smart ass remarks 635 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:45.440 about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join Tier three. So I want 636 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.480 to let you know a little bit about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So 637 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.639 there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path 638 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:57.199 Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so they're not very 639 00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.280 mini, but they're just too short to turn into a series, and we're 640 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.159 really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check out those patreons will link 641 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.519 them in the show notes. So I want to thank you all for listening, 642 00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.800 and any chance you have to share us on social media with a friend 643 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:14.239 or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at 644 00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:17.320 The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the 645 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:22.039 Pathwink. So until next time, be sure to bundle up, because cold 646 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:25.199 trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the 647 00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:27.880 podcast Cold Callers Comedy