WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.800 Hey guys, welome to the markcast. Read here, well, here we 2 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:18.160 go, here we are. We are going to fix the UFL today, 3 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:22.359 give them a blueprint for success. Kind of tongue in cheek, but I 4 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:24.960 think this is gonna be good. Kind of a think tank here today, 5 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:28.239 kind of an off the wall episode. Mid season. We had Mike Mitchell 6 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:33.159 last week checking in with the UFL median expectations, what's going on, a 7 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:36.520 lot of work and time went into this, finding the right individual to come 8 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.159 on, producing the segment, questions and everything else. So I hope you 9 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:43.439 guys enjoy you know, please like and subscribe. Give us up to thirty 10 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:48.479 five hundred subscribers. Remember two free tickets to the UFL Championship game. You 11 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.479 can even sit with the Professor Andrew Murray if you get us over that. 12 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:55.759 We're like less than forty away. Get us there. Hopefully this episode will 13 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.759 incentivize you a little bit today. I think forty percent of people that watch 14 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.640 Andy and Ized Monday live streams are not subscribed to the channel, and those 15 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.519 actually do really well. So get on board if you're not already support the 16 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:11.719 channel and giving the thumbs up a good great episode today Todd, MRCO coming 17 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:19.439 on former Los Angeles Avengers President and COO of the Arena Football League, really 18 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:23.799 deep dive, wide ranging, almost an hour long interview. What does Todd 19 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:29.359 think of kind of the business direction of the UFL TV ratings versus attendance and 20 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:34.560 how they should we incentivize the local fan bases to come out, giving away 21 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.239 tickets for free, slashing tickets, kind of all those strategies. Todd has 22 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.760 spent decades kind of in the sports media landscape through ad sales and you know, 23 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.000 ticketing and everything else, through Fox Sports, he was with the Outdoor 24 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:49.879 Channel. He has his own consulting firm now, So even outside of kind 25 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.799 of the Arena football landscape, Todd is a wealth of knowledge. Or really 26 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.680 appreciate him. Like I said, taking almost an hour to sit down today 27 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.439 kind of deep diving all of this stuff and then the pre production calls that 28 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.640 we had and everything else. Max and you know, you get a random 29 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.239 email from a podcaster in cl Hey can you come on to talk to UFL. 30 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.000 So I think Todd went great. I was great. I really hope 31 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:13.439 you guys enjoy it. Hopefully it will be some fruitful, you know, 32 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:15.439 tangible things. The UFL can do. I know we get a lot of 33 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:19.120 like, well, you guys are too negative, So here we go. 34 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:22.360 Hopefully you guys enjoy that. And then at Football Talk today we're going to 35 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.759 be previewing the weekends games with Kevin Coogler, a Fox Sports, a longtime 36 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.680 friend of the program. We're trying to get Brock Cward on and then I 37 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.319 was working all week and he was working and we just couldn't coordinate schedule. 38 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:37.840 So hopefully we'll get Brock Heward on again here soon once our schedules allow it. 39 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.400 Last note for me, I know there's a ton of CFL stuff right 40 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:44.319 now. I know there's the Chack Kelly's of it all. I'm recording this 41 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.759 late on Thursday, and the pinball press conference and Dave Naylor doing all that 42 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:53.719 reporting and the Elks losing money and all that stuff. Literally between Andy and 43 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.479 I's live stream on Tuesday and right now, I have had zero time to 44 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.520 podcast, So no CFL content this week. The best I could do was 45 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:06.000 Todd earlier in the week and then Kevin Coogler. So hope you guys enjoy. 46 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.400 Hope that's enough alternative football content, and then we'll get on the CFL 47 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:13.280 train next week again should have a much easier schedule. So like and subscribe. 48 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:20.639 We'll see at the end vex, Well, this is exciting today. 49 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.560 This is a little off the wall here. You know, we have our 50 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.319 you know, var Hans of the world, Dave Naylors, everyone else, 51 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.479 and this is a little think tank today. We get a lot of negativity 52 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.520 on here. Sometimes you guys are too critical about the UFL everything else. 53 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:37.719 So I'm bringing in today to Todd murco here and just even looking from his 54 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:43.240 LinkedIn, former president and COO of the Los Angeles Avengers back in the Arena 55 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:49.120 Football League, but even just here, confident strategists with contagious passion perspective on 56 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:54.520 how to engage and monetize generational audiences, consumer sports fans in traditional and emerging 57 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:58.479 media. Todd's got a lot of experience with all of this stuff. Like 58 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.039 I said, leading through your LinkedIn, Todd, why don't you just how 59 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:03.159 are you doing and maybe give us a little bit of the background. What's 60 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:08.039 your elevator pitch about who you are? I'm doing well, doing well. 61 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:12.000 I've got beautiful weather down here in Scottsdale, Arizona. Looks like you've got 62 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:16.439 it up there in Washington, so cool. I just got done with the 63 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:21.160 spring semester at Arizona State the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism, where I'm been 64 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:28.439 given the privilege to touch young minds and kind of give them the fresh approach 65 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:30.839 they should be taken moving forward in media and content and sports. I actually 66 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:38.319 teach to the journalism students business s class because they really don't get a business 67 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.160 foundation. So my whole thing is I ask them to remember one thing when 68 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:46.079 they leave, and that is follow the money. Follow the money, follow 69 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.519 the money. Right. So aside from that, I have a consulting business 70 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:58.079 where late I've been spending a lot of time talking to local sports teams that 71 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:03.199 have been going through this media local media change. With the ballet sports Diamond 72 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:11.879 sports situation, We're seeing radical changes occur. You know, time will tell 73 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.319 if the formulas that are being put in place. Phoenix is one of those 74 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.720 markets, if that formula is gonna work. But I've been spending time in 75 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:23.079 that in that area as well. And on top of that, I'm starting 76 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:30.959 a new nonprofit organization focused around youth sports and educating the constituents inside that space. 77 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.600 But we'll save that for another podcast. Well, this is great. 78 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.519 I do appreciate this. You know, Todd getting a random email for me 79 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.480 on a Friday, Hey, do you want to come on and talk about 80 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:42.279 you know, Todd is probably the you know, Arina Football League back in 81 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.199 the early two thousands and then just a whole wealth of career if you have 82 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:47.360 ticket sales and marketing and the sports and all that. So we wanted to 83 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.160 get Todd stots today on kind of everything UFL. How do we engage the 84 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:56.199 local markets moving forward? Talking new attendance versus TV ratings and kind of all 85 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:00.199 of that stuff. Here Todd general, just here existing in the world where 86 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:04.240 we have like e merged Spring Football League here own you colon by Fox and 87 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.759 Red Burding everything else. Did you imagine being at this spot here coming from 88 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:12.000 kind of your past history with all of this. Yeah, you know, 89 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.720 I think it's something that we're gonna We're going to continue to see whether or 90 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.360 not somebody can strike gold in the off season, if you will, of 91 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:25.360 traditional football. And the reason being is there's just too much money in it, 92 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:30.560 right, you know, I think success for the UFL or anybody who 93 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.279 really tries outside of the NFL is can you pick up a ratings point from 94 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:41.800 football fans, can you layer that with betters that are interested in throwing down 95 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:46.680 some money right win or lose? And then can you pull in the sponsors 96 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.959 on top of it. So it's a simplified vision of it. But I 97 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:55.560 think we're going to continue to see the the you know, the entities come 98 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.079 out and try to you don't get a piece of that gold in the in 99 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.319 the traditional off season, if you will. So coming off today, we're 100 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:06.600 recording this Tuesday earlier this week. I appreciate Tom making time with my work 101 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.959 schedule. Coming off, we have Mike Mitchell's TV ratings for this week, 102 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:16.800 you know, about a million we of course I have the It was Sunday's 103 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:20.720 average was one point two million, forty one percent up over last year. 104 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:25.399 So we're seeing, you know, I would say, above average what we 105 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:29.399 maybe are expecting for TV ratings in that the attendance legging a little bit. 106 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.480 I think we have on average over the weekend five thousand Memphis, seven thousand, 107 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.360 Michigan, thirty two thousand and Saint Louis, and then fourteen thousand in 108 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:40.839 DC. We have a debate on here a lot Todd about like, well, 109 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.519 this league is an attendance driven ride. It's all based on the TV 110 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:47.279 revenue and it's just the fractions of a point any money made at the gate. 111 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.639 We talked offline kind of setting up about this, just you know, 112 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.519 wanting to feel like you're a part of it with the audience. We're trying 113 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:58.040 to build towards local ownership. Where do you base between the kind of the 114 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.199 TV revenue and then the butts and the sea. Well, first, I 115 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.199 had not seen the ratings yet for the past weekend. You know, doing 116 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:11.120 a million plus is a decent number. You know a lot of people would 117 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.360 look at that and think that's not great. It's not a bad number. 118 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:20.879 You know, college football, the non hyped games. You know, we 119 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.319 may see under a one for a lot of the games. We'll see over 120 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.680 ones and we'll see you know, large numbers. Dan Sanders was my gosh, 121 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.720 he was doing tens and eleven this past year. But you know, 122 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:39.360 a million viewers is not it's not bad. It's definitely sustainable to the business 123 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.799 model, if you will to what you know Fox is trying to pull off 124 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.799 with the Rock is trying to pull off. Now on the other side of 125 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.120 this, as you bring up attendance. Look, it's a valuable piece of 126 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:58.799 the business model, and putting butts in the seats is obviously a critical part. 127 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.399 You know, it comes with a double edged sword because you know, 128 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.200 we always tried. I always tried on both sides. Whether I was on 129 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.759 the media side, I always try to help our team partners by not showing 130 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:16.039 empty seats. When I was on the team side, I always tried to 131 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:20.600 make sure, working with production, that we were clearly not showing empty seats 132 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:26.559 and trying to fill those seats. And you know, the fan at home 133 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:33.279 wants to see that there is a stadium interested in, fully interested and engaged 134 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.600 with that game, right you know, partly is that energy comes through to 135 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.960 the viewer at home. But if there's no interest in the stadium inside of 136 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:48.799 the actual stadium or the arena, it does convey and you know, sports 137 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.480 fans want to be a part of something. They want to watch something that 138 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.960 is you know, can't miss TV. And if there are people actually not 139 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.320 going to the game, psychologically, it just happens to, you know, 140 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.799 change how we approach what we're viewing. And look, we can look at 141 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:11.320 NFL games the last couple of years, their numbers haven't trended like they would 142 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:16.240 want them to. There have been stadiums across the country that have had empty 143 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.600 seats. Now, if you see those games, one thing I can promise 144 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.120 you is whether it's CBS or Fox or NBC or whatever partner, they're doing 145 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.399 their darness to show all the full seats and not those empty seats. So 146 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.519 I think it's a double edged sword. But you know, on one end, 147 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.440 I would say the UFL, you know, has a positive outlook, 148 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:45.080 but the numbers that they're they're generating ratings wives, but locally, they obviously 149 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.279 have more work to do. Yeah, And so we'll get into some of 150 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:50.080 those ideas today because this is kind of going to be a I think I'm 151 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.440 branding this a step by step blueprint here the fixing, Well, we'll fix 152 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.720 the UFL today. I don't worry about no credit. But because what strikes 153 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.559 me is, you know, obviously, right now this exists as a TV 154 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.159 product for Fox, right, and that's why they went into this, and 155 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.000 we partner and all that stuff. But at some point, the goal, 156 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.879 whether it's five years from now or seven years from now or ten years, 157 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:15.879 like we want to sell these franchises off and if I'm averaging fifty six hundred 158 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.200 people in Memphis, like you know, I mean you worked with this with 159 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.600 the arena leagues, like you know, I know you had said you built 160 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.240 you know, four thousand up to sixteen thousand general attendance back for the LA 161 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.519 Avengers. Like what interest is there in that in a property maybe in Memphis 162 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.600 or Michigan that's pulling in sub eight thousand in a game like that? Or 163 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:37.399 is that or is that bible? Well, look again, another double edged 164 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.200 sword. You know, when you if they're going to sell those franchises off 165 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.080 and move away from a single entity situation, you know they're really going to 166 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.879 have to try to create revenues that are coming in from the league side. 167 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:56.639 That's where success is truly defined. It's not defined necessarily by what's going on 168 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.039 on the local level and what you can create. If you can't create a 169 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:07.559 strong media relationship with somebody that's generating revenue for you, and you can't generate 170 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.799 consistent sponsorship revenue, and then we can layer in merchandise and all the other 171 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:18.320 ancillary stuff. Betting certainly brings a whole new dynamic to the leagues these days. 172 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:24.480 But if you can't generate those revenues from the leagues, then being sustainable 173 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.840 as a franchise entity in a market makes it very very difficult. And look, 174 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:33.039 that was the biggest problem in the Arena Football League for many years and 175 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:39.919 we're seeing it again now. And I don't think the current owners had any 176 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.919 idea what they were getting themselves into. If I'm looking at this thing from 177 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.399 thirty thousand feet, I think they thought they were going to be sustainable. 178 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:52.600 They certainly sold that story to the franchise owners, and the franchise owners who 179 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.039 pulled out were expecting to get revenue from the league and that didn't happen. 180 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.480 And obviously, you know, it's circumstantial here having you on you we're having 181 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.799 the downfall in the AML, and uh, you know I've been trying to 182 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.480 get some coverage of that my work schedule and everything. But yeah, I 183 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.559 mean obviously, and I'm sure you're shaking your head at seeing some of that 184 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.320 stuff, and you know that might be a conversation for another time as well. 185 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.399 We'll see here in terms of we got questions here. You know, 186 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:20.159 Max put together some of this and really helped him kind of help produce this 187 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:26.399 segment here in terms of attendance and TV ratings issues. Is that is that 188 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.960 a market issue in terms of like we've chosen the wrong markets, or is 189 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.200 that that we are not promoting well enough in the markets. It's both. 190 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:39.159 So, you know, when you look at the major floors and you look 191 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.159 at this from you know, what they are doing, we see franchise growth. 192 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.879 It's it's not as much anymore in the major force, but we do 193 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:52.679 see franchise growth. Where it occurs is in the largest markets because what the 194 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.039 league. In fact, let's go look that was a great example going on 195 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.759 right now college football. Let's look at realignment and the college space because the 196 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.679 Big ten has done something which is so smart, and everybody is. Everybody 197 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:09.600 else is trying to follow suit to fill in the holes the same way. 198 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.960 But the Big Ten went through realignment and that snag of Los Angeles with SC 199 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.919 and UCLA that caught everybody off guard. They got the number two market in 200 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.879 the United States. So by bringing the number two market into the United States 201 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:28.000 with their with their primary schools, right, they drew this interest in so 202 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.480 from a national perspective, they have a you know what what I think we'll 203 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.840 see is an increase in ratings for the Big ten this coming year because they 204 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.360 added Los Angeles, They've got New York, They've got Chicago, they've got 205 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.799 Detroit. I mean, they've got so many large and they added San Francisco. 206 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.320 They've got so many large markets. Actually, no, they didn't add 207 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:52.600 San Francisco. They added Washington in your area. They added Seattle, right, 208 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:58.879 right, Yeah, and so another large market. So when you full 209 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:05.759 this and you look at from the standpoint of the UFL one, what do 210 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:11.960 you need to do to create national ratings? But then what do you have 211 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:16.480 to do to create local ratings? Well, the local ratings help support the 212 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:22.120 national numbers, right. So what I can guarantee you almost without failure, 213 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.480 is if the New York Jets at a five and ten clip on the season, 214 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.440 are playing the Jacksonville Jaguars, right, who are ten and five, 215 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:39.000 I can almost guarantee you that that game is going to rate significantly higher amongst 216 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:45.159 most games around the country because of why the number one market in the country 217 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.080 in New York, right, and the TV sets that it brings to the 218 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.240 equation. So, if you have the foundation of those local teams inside of 219 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:00.440 large television household markets, that helps lift all boats and arising tide, right, 220 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.480 that helps to create those national numbers. Now, what the UFL doesn't 221 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:10.399 do, which our major fours do do are aside from the NFL, and 222 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.720 I know this is probably not where the mark cast goes in all over this, 223 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:18.080 but there's local ratings because of the quantity of games that the NBA and 224 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.720 NHL and Major League Baseball has and the Arena Football League was in this model 225 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.679 as well, we had local broadcasted games. So you had to be strong, 226 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.000 you had to be sustainable in your local markets. And if we're looking 227 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.960 at it from a ratings perspective, you know, for the most part, 228 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:40.919 the NHL typically ranks really really low overall locally, depending upon you know, 229 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.000 markets that you go to. Obviously Detroit, Chicago, New York. I 230 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.399 mean, those those hockey hot markets rate much higher, but otherwise they're they're 231 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:53.840 rating lower. And so the goal is, how can you put together the 232 00:16:53.879 --> 00:17:00.080 strongest markets that are going to track the strongest audiences fans that are going to 233 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.679 tune into those games, and you really want to try to do it. 234 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:08.079 The foundation of that is really trying to do that with the larger market teams 235 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.640 well and it's we've talked about this because obviously come up here the last couple 236 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:17.200 of weeks on the show and just in no world would you ever have these 237 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.359 eight markets selected for a league to kind of start out, even though this 238 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.640 is a couple put together here, you know, three in Texas, Michigan, 239 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.519 Memphis. Right, we don't have La we don't have San Diego, 240 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.039 we don't have you know, New York or any of that. So how 241 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.799 do you where you don't have that? A first, Howard surprised for you 242 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.279 that we don't have either coast represented, either of the top two media markets. 243 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:38.960 But also like then, how do you hope to recover from that? 244 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.160 Because it feels like, you know, Birmingham is not the hot I mean, 245 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.960 it might be the hot met of the football world, but it's not 246 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.680 the hot bed of like the TV you know, viewing population. Yeah, 247 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.400 and I you know, I not knowing exactly what their strategy is on that. 248 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.079 I mean I think part of this is, you know, taking the 249 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:03.720 old teams, right, they brought into the equation, which I always thought 250 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:06.160 that was a bit of a head scratcher, to be honest with you. 251 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:11.319 I mean, I don't know what the true relevancy was of that, especially 252 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:17.480 when we're talking about Birmingham. I don't I don't know if that formula works, 253 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.599 but you know they're clearly trying to do it where football is where it 254 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:27.759 is hot beds Texas, you know. But again, I mean, look 255 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:32.240 the numbers of what we're seeing. What would be really interesting in what you 256 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.920 put up on the screen is what do those numbers look like from a regional 257 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:41.240 perspective? Right? Are we drawing in those audiences from those areas? Now 258 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.720 you asked about the West Coast. You know, for years we had no 259 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:51.640 teams in LA. Right, it was partly well do we really need teams 260 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.519 in LA? They were rating good, they weren't rating great, but they 261 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.599 were rating good, and fans there could watch games that you know, we're 262 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.400 all over the place, right, they didn't have to necessarily watch the Rams 263 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.240 or the Chargers. And there was always this stigma for a long time. 264 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.400 In fact, we dealt with it with the Avengers. Is this truly a 265 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.559 football market? And I would argue and say, yeah, it is a 266 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.440 football market because we were able to stimulate those fans. Albeit it was you 267 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.039 know, we needed sixteen thousand or you know more, if we'd started to 268 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.799 add ratings on but but yeah, we were able to stimulate it in a 269 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:32.359 non non NFL time period. We didn't have the NFL for I don't know 270 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:37.119 how many years during that time period. But I'm not surprised that they haven't 271 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.039 brought LA into the mix. San Diego's smaller market, so you know, 272 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.880 again I don't know, but we could also throw the argument on San Diego 273 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.359 they don't have the Chargers. Are they thirsting for football? Right? Is 274 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.640 there something? So all these things end up being kind of trial and error 275 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.680 situations to try to figure out. And I, you know, I think 276 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.880 they have the luxury of doing that if they wanted to do that, because 277 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.200 that's my thing is you know, I obviously right now you're you're seeing you 278 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.079 know, no A, no LA, no, no New York because of 279 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.680 you know, cost and travel and venue availability. But my question is is 280 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.079 it worth those added is it worth those added headaches to be in one of 281 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.640 those markets just from that, like you said, getting the local viewership there 282 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:22.920 and then also national I mean we saw Mike Mitchell will bang his head against 283 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.119 the wall. But you know, the highest rated XFL and the highest rates 284 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:29.480 spring football game and that. However, long was the New York Guardians game 285 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:32.920 playing that first XFL weekend. It wasn't even the kickoff, it was just 286 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.480 because that was one of the media markets involved. Yeah, I I don't 287 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.759 know, it's it's tough. I think, you know, inside of those 288 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:47.279 markets, to kind of get the football fan in a frenzy and you know, 289 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.440 week after week after week, I think is very difficult. There's a 290 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.880 lot of especially in the summertime, right, I mean spring and summer, 291 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.680 there's a lot of options. There's a lot of options for the sports fan, 292 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:02.200 and so can you get them And think about it right now, if 293 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.960 you had a team in New York and you've got the Rangers and the Knicks 294 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.160 and the playoffs, I mean, you're going to have a serious time competing 295 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:15.640 against that if you actually schedule a football game up against that serious So there's 296 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:21.079 a lot of things that take their attention away, and I think probably from 297 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:25.440 that standpoint. Look, the one thing I can tell you is when you 298 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:30.759 got the national broadcasters involved, they're smart. They're smart. They know the 299 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.960 value of audience acquisition. They know what it's going to take to get them 300 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:40.759 every quarter of the year, and where they're going to get derailed or where 301 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.799 their attention and focus is going to go to. They're very very smart, 302 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:49.000 and I'm sure they're leaning in on that information very very hard, and I'm 303 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:55.319 sure they're lending that information to the league office at the UFL for sure. 304 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.920 For sure, in those decisions, how do you view We've talked a lot 305 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.200 here coming at the end of the season, do you relocate the team that's 306 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:06.519 not working? And hey, how dangerous do you buil? Do you view 307 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:11.039 team relocation? Especially where you know some of these like you know, what 308 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:12.880 what was it? It was at Memphis, It was actually Tampa, and 309 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.200 then it was Memphis and now you know, like some of these places haven't 310 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.839 even been in the markets for two three years? How do you how dangerous 311 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:25.240 do you view that? You know? Again, it depends what you're actually 312 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.359 picking up from an audience perspective. Right, If you're getting a national audience 313 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:34.279 and it's scattered throughout the country, I don't think that audience is going to 314 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:38.480 care if Team A picks up and moves to, you know, a new 315 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.799 city. I don't think it's gonna matter. I don't think there's enough hype 316 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:47.440 and I'm not close enough to it and watching it close enough. I don't 317 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.200 think there's enough hype in each of these cities right now as they exist that 318 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.359 any one you know, fan base is going to be like, you know, 319 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.359 oh my gosh, our team left us. I don't think that would 320 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.680 happen. I mean, first of all, from the spring football side, 321 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.559 these cities have seen it come and go and come and go and come and 322 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.640 go right, and so they're used to how close they're going to actually get 323 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:15.119 to that entity. So I don't I don't think it's a huge factor. 324 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:17.880 And that's what I'm saying. I think, you know, with Fox, 325 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.799 they can be pretty smart, with all the broadcast partners, they can be 326 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.240 pretty smart and say, you know what, this one didn't really pan out 327 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.799 like we thought it would. We're having challenges putting butts and seats to make 328 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.200 it look good for TV. Let's maybe try market X. What do you 329 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.400 guys think, you know, here's what our data shows us, here's what 330 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.920 we know. Let's give that a try next season and then you know, 331 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.400 you spin it and you see what happens. I think they have, you 332 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.319 know, that ability to do that. So do you worry then about a 333 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.400 new future market feeling burned because of that, like, well, hey, 334 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.279 they just came from I mean because I know the Arena League and all that 335 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.839 mood around, But we have people scream on both sides. I mean that's 336 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:59.559 why I asked the questions because I see both sides of the coin. I 337 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:02.599 really do. Oh, I believe me. I do too, because I've 338 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:04.880 been on both sides of the coin. And you know, look, I 339 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:10.079 know you want to kind of pin the AFL, but look at these these 340 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.839 fans once again, right, I mean they were going into last weekend, 341 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.839 last few weekends thinking they're going to games and the plug gets pulled. So 342 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.039 I get it. I mean, you definitely don't want that kind of situation 343 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:27.359 to happen. If you've electrified a fan base. And I say electrified a 344 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:32.039 fan base. That fan base could be one hundred, that fan base could 345 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:37.079 be twenty thousand, right, But if you've electrified a fan base, you're 346 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:44.000 going to have to evaluate what that decision of relocation looks like and what you're 347 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.559 going to end up you know, getting, is a backlash on it. 348 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:52.279 And do they understand I mean this is this is a complex strategy of what 349 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.759 you know, the UFL in particular is trying to pull off, and I 350 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.440 think you have to communicate that to these fans. And I think that's really 351 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:07.880 really critical in the standpoint of their success, because those fans need to understand, 352 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.799 Hey, listen, you were at the games. We got ten thousand 353 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:17.359 people and a forty five thousand seat venue. It just doesn't work like if 354 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.799 you can pick up thirty thousand of your friends and bring them fantastic, right, 355 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.079 But that's not happening. So you know, I think, you know, 356 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.279 as long as the parties can communicate that, I have faith in the 357 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.400 UFL, I have faith and really, you know, Dwayne Johnson, I 358 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:38.640 think that guy's so connected to his fan base. He doesn't want to he 359 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.839 doesn't want to piss anybody off by relocating. And if he does have to 360 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:48.480 relocate, I think he's going to communicate that. Right, if this were 361 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.559 to become the iffactor, right, I think he's going to communicate that. 362 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.880 He's going to make sure that, you know, he's not pissing off any 363 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.839 rock fans in the process, right, which is important. Well, and 364 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.400 I agree, I think league transparency is incredibly important to me, and we 365 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.799 had them. The ruling came down today from the CFL in regard to this 366 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.119 Chad Kelly stuff that we've been tracking just to kind of timestamp everything. But 367 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:18.039 I think you need to have league transparency. I think the UFL should act 368 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.200 more like a transparent maybe arena league in communicating with their fans versus we are 369 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.039 a top four, top five league right now. I think, in my 370 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.559 opinion, I think sometimes the UFL, well, we don't need these people 371 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.079 covering the league or this doing that. We are the UFL, and I 372 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.119 think you can get built to that point. But I think engaging communities and 373 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.359 communicating with your fans, I agree with you. I don't know if that 374 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.799 would happen, but I agree that that should happen. Well, you know, 375 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.519 here's just an interesting read. You know, Commissioner David Baker. If 376 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.880 you were familiar with Big David Baker, the commissioner of the Arena Football League. 377 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:57.200 When I was there, and again I apologize for going back, he 378 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.680 always to say something, by the way, this guy was, Oh my 379 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.799 god. He was just an enormous man. When he entered a room, 380 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:11.000 it was like Holy Cow. And he came with this positive attitude and energy. 381 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.680 Most recently he was head of the Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio 382 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:22.920 for the NFL. But he used to be so positive. And one of 383 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:27.279 the things that he used to say almost at nauseum at board meetings and anywhere 384 00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.519 he went, even if he was talking to fans, if you want to 385 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:37.200 be big league, you have to act big league, right, And he 386 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.319 really got a lot of people believing. He certainly made me believe. I'll 387 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.440 tell you I would have run through a wall for the things that he was 388 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.880 saying, because it was true. If you want fans to believe they're watching 389 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:55.680 something of significant value, big league value, right, then you have to 390 00:27:55.720 --> 00:28:00.920 be doing things that are big league. Now, sometimes that doesn't work in 391 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.160 the business model, but you have to suck it up and you have to 392 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.319 you have to do what you have to do to make it be big league. 393 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.519 And you know, in Los Angeles we had an owner that you know 394 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.440 I worked for there, Casey Washerman, who was highly committed financially, he 395 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.960 was highly committed, he was highly committed to the to the team overall to 396 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.559 make it work into the league. And you know, if the commissioner said, 397 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:27.680 you know, you got to you gotta be big league, Casey would 398 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.960 do what he needed to do to be big league. Now, by the 399 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.160 way, that doesn't mean everybody in the league is going to do that. 400 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.960 And there was something I always used to say when we go to board meetings, 401 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.119 and that's you're only as strong as your weakest team. And that's that's 402 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.000 an unfortunate situation too, because if somebody is not kicking in and doing what 403 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.440 they need to do. That's what's nice about the UFL in a single energy 404 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.480 situation is they can say, look, guys, we're all here, We're 405 00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:57.119 all in this level. You can't play down here. We're I'm not talking 406 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:00.119 about on the field and talking about business opera. You've got to be up 407 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.839 here. Everybody's got to be up here. This is our expectation. If 408 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.200 you're in a franchise ownership situation, you can try to hold owners to certain 409 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.960 levels, but owners can make decisions, right. We've seen that across every 410 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:18.359 league in this country, around the world, quite frankly, And you can 411 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.319 do whatever you want to do if you don't want to put all the money 412 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.559 in to succeed business wise, on the field wise, hey, you can 413 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:29.279 do that to a certain degree. Right. So I think it's just one 414 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.319 of those things that I think it's something that you know, as you point 415 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.240 out, the fans want that, and so I think the UFL is trying 416 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.640 and I'm sure you know Dwayne Johnson with a lot of stuff that you see 417 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.480 him doing, I think he's trying to do that too, and kind of 418 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.000 rally the troops around. It doesn't mean it's always going to be that, 419 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.039 but I do think you got to I do think you got to try to 420 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:56.759 execute that way for sure. Appreciate here we're going. I hope you're good 421 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.640 time wise here, we'll try to double time. I you're killery. I 422 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.920 appreciate it as always like to check in year. So in terms of you 423 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.880 this season, and we had the merger coming in and all that, you 424 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.519 know, it was not a large ramp kind of runway going up to the 425 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.920 season, right a couple of months in terms of engaging these markets, you 426 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.880 know, the most these teams are going to see five home games, right, 427 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.160 maybe six with the playoff the Hubs in Texas. How difficult is that 428 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.079 to engage what we're seeing. You know, during the end of the season, 429 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.279 we're probably gonna have either layoffs or seasonal employees, right, We're only 430 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.200 gonna have people involved, Like, how do you how do you kind of 431 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.200 build these markets outside of you know, the three months you're in play in 432 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:40.720 the five times you're in the markets each season. You know, again, 433 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.400 I hate to go back to the arena days. We had some teams that's 434 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.759 why you're here. Yeah, yeah, I mean we had teams that had 435 00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.880 seasonal layoffs. We did not have seasonal layoffs in LA. We did not 436 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:55.440 believe in it. It was a twelve month job to make that team succeed. 437 00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:00.319 All your work truly starts happening the day the season ends. You're really 438 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:06.039 working towards the next season during that season, and so I don't think you 439 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:10.759 can do that. There are, arguably, if some positions you can say 440 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.240 are seasonal game ops for sure, But you know, are those gameops people 441 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.880 now ticket sellers? Are they promoters of some kind out in the community? 442 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.759 You know, what do they do? I think what's really important and where 443 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:30.079 we saw our success in Los Angeles in particular, it was really important for 444 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.920 me that we take the masks off the players. First of all, we 445 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:38.880 find the right players, right that were really good on the field, good 446 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.759 people, so they were going to be good in the community, and we 447 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:49.559 took their masks off and we started marketing them without their masks on Tony Graziani, 448 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:53.200 who was our quarterback, who I was just reminded by this the other 449 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.119 night, by the way, I was watching the bon Jovi documentary on Hulu 450 00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.559 and he's in playing the p and I'm like, holy ship, there's the 451 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:07.559 Arena Football Championship trophy sitting on and it was Tony who was his quarterback, 452 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:12.720 which I had. I had left the year before he well when he left 453 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.039 in free agency, I think was the same year I left. So it 454 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.279 was fun watching him lift that trophy with bon Jovi. But but we had 455 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:25.119 Graziani. We had a wide receiver who was one of Ryan Leaf's wide receivers 456 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:28.519 from your neck of the woods, Chris Jackson, who was one of the 457 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:32.759 best in the league. We brought in a kid named Greg Hopkins from uh 458 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.720 he'd been in the Where was he He was in Albany and then Albany folded 459 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:44.000 and he was with Indiana it was the Indiana Firebirds, and we brought him 460 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.799 in. So we had three really strong football players that we can market around. 461 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.440 And I got to tell you something. We went to high school games. 462 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.559 That was part of our strategy is we we had the off season to 463 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.599 go to the traditional football season, and we pounded it and pounded it and 464 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.640 pounded it. If I was the UFL inside of these markets, I would 465 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.319 go to the grassroots. I would go to the youth football games. I 466 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:12.079 would go to the high school games, maybe some of the college games if 467 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.319 they're crowd's there, and I would start pounding and pounding and pounding. We 468 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:21.240 saw success from that. We saw a turnaround where people were identifying with those 469 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.279 players the following year, and that momentum built. When you start doing it 470 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:29.359 year after year after year and fans start to expect it and they see you 471 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:32.680 out in the community, it works. It truly works. You gotta win 472 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:36.839 too, by the way, right, you got to add a little bit 473 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.839 of that winning sugar inside of it. But you know, it does work, 474 00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.839 and that's what I would recommend that these guys do. They've got to 475 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.039 double down in the offseason if they really want to see success in the local 476 00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:52.039 market franchises. We joke as in the CFL the last couple of seasons, 477 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.680 the Edmonton Alexi you know, the Eskimos and then the alexaid have that tremendous 478 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.920 and they've had Vijor Queen came in their president and left, and like, 479 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:01.559 I mean, the team's stunk, and it's like, you can only do 480 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:05.440 so many things here, and I want to talk about a ticket pricing year, 481 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:07.559 but you know, you can only run so many deals or whatever. 482 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:09.440 You know, the team is oh and thirteen or whatever. It's really hard 483 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:15.440 to do. I know it was Memphis last weekend. Did fly in the 484 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.519 day early, because you know the thing is and I talked with Russ Brandon 485 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.079 back. I mean this was two years ago when they announced the hub, 486 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:23.960 and I said, well, you know, we've seen the challenges that the 487 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:28.000 USFL have had, you know, only being in the hub, how are 488 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.360 you guys going to benefit? He's like, we're going to be the first 489 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.360 people and we're going to be the last people out. That hasn't always been 490 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:36.599 the case. You know, if we can fit in the media, you 491 00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.519 know, hit like when we fly into town on the way to the game 492 00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.199 and then on the way out. But I did see Memphis coming a day 493 00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:45.039 early this week, which I thought was great, and they went and volunteered 494 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.039 with some kids and then they played the video during the game. That was 495 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.000 great. But like you said, you know, it's the other nine months 496 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.280 out of the year, and I just don't see. I don't, I 497 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.639 don't. I'm afraid I won't see that same motivation, that same time being 498 00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.679 spent. How many games are we talking about in a weekend for UFL? 499 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.719 Now, so there's four games a week, eight teams, and so, 500 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.639 like I said, you figure you got five home games plus playoffs, and 501 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.039 then the championship is going to be in Saint Louis, So you got fiven 502 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.800 opportunities of six. You know, if I was the UFL, I think 503 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.960 what I would do is I would take the model that the Premier Lacrosse League 504 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:25.599 has done. Are you familiar with the Premier Lacrosse League? Yeah, so 505 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.360 probably not as much as you are. Well, no, it's funny. 506 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:35.440 You kind of look like one of the Rabbel brothers. Rabel they when they 507 00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:40.519 started that league, they looked at everything that everybody looks at from a startup 508 00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:45.280 problem, right, They had venue issues, What are their fans going to 509 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.320 look like? You know, so on and so forth, and they traveled 510 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:53.360 around and in like the circus, they traveled around and played their games, 511 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.239 all their games in a weekend in one location. And I don't think that 512 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.960 would be a bad thing for the UFL. If you could find you know, 513 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.719 maybe you can do it out of one venue. Maybe you do it. 514 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.639 You know, you could probably do it Thursday night, Friday. Well 515 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.519 you could do it a Friday night. Maybe do two games on Saturday and 516 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.320 a game on Sunday, and just bring it all to the market, right, 517 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:20.159 bring it all over the market and sell package of tickets. This is 518 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:24.880 the thing about sports right now is they've got to be thinking outside the box. 519 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.280 And I'm not talking about if this is the box of what traditional football 520 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:34.119 has always been. They got to be way out here, like am I 521 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.239 off screen. I mean, they got to be way out here, right. 522 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.760 We got to be able to say we are going to try this. 523 00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:45.079 It sounds crazy, but we're going to try this. Because first of all, 524 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:50.760 what's the value to a local fan If they're getting five home games a 525 00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:57.199 year anyway, you're not getting enough home games to build momentum of any kind. 526 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.599 So you know, what they did in the Premier Lacrosse League I thought 527 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.199 was brilliant. And you know, their goal is the same thing. Their 528 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.440 goal is at some point to no longer be singul entity and at some point 529 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:12.920 you know, sell those franchises off and go market to market. By the 530 00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:15.079 way, we may never get there. They may find that the best way 531 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.639 for this league to operator is to continue traveling around like they're doing it. 532 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.239 Pick their locations, go to different markets every year to duplicate some because they're 533 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:29.599 hotbeds for lacrosse, right. But I would I wouldn't. I would not 534 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.960 rule that out. If somebody said you are now the new CEO of the 535 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:37.599 UFL, I would throw that idea down and say, look, I think 536 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.559 we need to try it. I think we need to see what we can 537 00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:46.079 build from market to market, bring in focus to those games on those weekends. 538 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.280 How many people can we put in the stands right to make it look 539 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:57.280 great for television and see what happens. It's crazy, but crazy is what's 540 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:01.639 going to really help push this thing upwards. Well it is. It's funny 541 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:07.239 because when we were talking, because there was the issue the Vegas market going 542 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.400 into last season had issues for the XFL and they weren't sure what they were 543 00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:13.480 going to do. And you know, we had even batted around like do 544 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.840 you have a traveling team and they're just always on the road and then you 545 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.880 build it that way. But I think we're seeing and I wanted to talk 546 00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.159 ticket pricing here, but we're seeing you know, with Birmingham that held all 547 00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:28.559 the USFL teams season one, and then they held you know, a quarter 548 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.159 it was, I guess a quarter of the games you know, last year, 549 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.280 and then now this year we're seeing that diminished result where it's like you 550 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:39.559 almost saturated that market so much the first season with having forty home games there 551 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:44.239 that now when the Stallions play, and we'll see this weekend the Stallions are 552 00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:46.119 hosting it's the biggest game of the season, but are they going to get 553 00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.880 a crowd out there because it's like you've sow, like you've sewed that field 554 00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:54.679 too many times and it just you can't grow anything. Yeah. Look, 555 00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:59.119 it's it's the same formula that gets worked over and over and over again, 556 00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.960 right. I mean, you're going to see bumps, You're going to see 557 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:07.039 things that are going to occur. But this is why I come back to 558 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:13.400 the idea, can you do something super crazy that'll just generate something that you 559 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:17.280 weren't expecting and look at even under their current model, is what is that 560 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:22.199 crazy? You know, I would truly be thinking, you know, outside 561 00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:28.239 that box to try to understand what is that crazy? Because it's it's tough, 562 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:34.199 man, It's really tough in terms of ticket price this year. And 563 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.159 I want to read Max's question because I've value worded it well. But you 564 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.159 know, basically, we're running ticket sales and ten dollars tickets and buy two 565 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.280 for one and I think, uh, they're giving away like sunglasses now and 566 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:47.840 hoodies and stuff trying to get in here. But when we're doing all that, 567 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.000 how should the league balance trying to draw people in with cheap tickets while 568 00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:58.039 also not devaluing themselves so much that fans become this interested when the pricing goes 569 00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:01.760 up. Yeah, that's that's another one of those You're bringing up a lot 570 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.519 of double edged swords. Read a lot of double edged swords. Man. 571 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.079 I don't even know where you could jump off on this one, to be 572 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:16.639 honest with you, because it's the strangest thing the consumer, you know, 573 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:22.679 as we talk about the sports fan here is the consumer. The consumer overall 574 00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:29.119 has behavioral traits that don't change product to product, and you can throw sports 575 00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:32.679 into the mix and it doesn't change. In other words, what I'm saying 576 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:40.199 is, if you put a value on something. Generally the consumer believes the 577 00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.400 value, right, And if you do a ticket for ten bucks to a 578 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:52.199 football game, you've totally changed the dynamic of what the value proposition has been 579 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.760 for an NFL game, and even in a college football game up in these 580 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.079 markets. Right, Alabama's not ten dollars, right, If you're going to 581 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:05.039 go see Alabama play, You're you're paying hundreds of dollars to go see an 582 00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:09.159 Alabama football game. So it's very difficult. But on the flip side, 583 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.239 you've got to do it because if you're going to put people in the seats 584 00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.480 to try the product, how how are you going to make that happen? 585 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:23.559 That was a very very careful situation for us in LA. We did we 586 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:30.599 did not want to. Our pricing model was our pricing model, but we 587 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:36.559 clearly had strategies around that pricing model, whether it was group ticketing, whether 588 00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.719 it was promos, whether it was family packs. I mean, there's a 589 00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:44.320 lot of different ways you can you can kind of cut it up, but 590 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.880 yeah, I agree with you or agree with kind of where you're going here. 591 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.480 So now the UFL, IT'SOK. Five years down the road, the 592 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.519 UFL is successful, They're playing more than five games in the season at home, 593 00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:59.800 and you know they want those ten dollars tickets to now become one hundred 594 00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:04.639 dollars. You know, when you're fifteen twenty rows or less off the field 595 00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:07.280 right now, all of a sudden, people are going, wait, I 596 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:10.280 used to bring my kids here and it was a one hundred dollars proposition for 597 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.440 tickets and food, and now it's a six hundred dollars proposition. Like wait 598 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.280 a minute, time out, I'm not doing this. So there's a threshold 599 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:24.519 of where that is. And you know, again that's where that's where you 600 00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:31.880 know, having the true understanding market to market. So when you get into 601 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:37.639 what do these and I don't know what these administrations look like market to market 602 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:43.920 these operations, right, but that's where they become highly highly critical in understanding 603 00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:47.519 who those fans are, what it takes to get them out, what it 604 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.159 takes to keep them and to retain them right, and what it's going to 605 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.400 mean a year or two or three years down the road, or you know, 606 00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:57.920 you got to think longer, you got to think ten years down the 607 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.800 road. I mean for us to kind of come back to this to the 608 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.559 Arena Football League, the one thing that league was great for and I have 609 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:09.559 students coming through at ASU who were in that mix. It was a great 610 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:16.000 kids event. It was like the circus for kids. It was NonStop action. 611 00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:21.280 They were screaming, they were hollering, and they became football fans. 612 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:27.599 They converted to the traditional size field from being arena football fans. And that 613 00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:31.199 was a very conscious strategy that we put into place, hoping to be there 614 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:36.960 long term that if we can get into the young kids that in five years 615 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.440 or ten years, when they are actually starting to make decisions on their own, 616 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.880 they're going to decide to come to arena football games. In twenty years 617 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.159 down the road, they're definitely going to come to those games and bring their 618 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:51.760 kids. And that's what you hope for in sports. But you know, 619 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:58.880 again, that pricing model is a very very touchy avenue area for strategy. 620 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:02.519 It's very tough, but you have to understand who your fans are and what 621 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:07.960 their appetite is and how far their appetite will go in those situations. I 622 00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.800 don't think I'm really giving you an answer here what you wanted. You're good. 623 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:17.960 It's really difficult and it's market to market in analyzing. You know what 624 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.679 the outcomes are going to look like well, and it's and this is no 625 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:24.119 disrespect because I know we have a lot of the league, you know, 626 00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:27.599 and taking people listening to the show and following all that stuff. I mean, 627 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.639 I think this is league. You know, this is higher up driven 628 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:34.000 at this point. But I don't know what that strategy is, Like you 629 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:36.599 said, you need to have some sort of strategy, Like I said, 630 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.840 here, it's like take a hood of you with this take sunglasses. Last 631 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.079 year the USFL we're giving away spacheless come get to beach towel. We're doing 632 00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.840 the car. And now some people say, like that's a great idea, 633 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:47.760 right, you know, increase that value. Uh, you know, proposition 634 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.800 right, and hey, there's going to be they talked about in Memphis and 635 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:54.719 you can bring uh you bring a jazz person in or whoever a band every 636 00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:58.320 week to do a show at halftime. Like the question, you know, 637 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.119 when do you give too much? Or I just and I know there's no 638 00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:04.360 right answer to that, but how do you you need to balance giving the 639 00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:07.239 whole kitchen synk trying to get people in versus like you're actually paying to watch 640 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.280 the football at the end of the day. So I do think because we 641 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:17.239 gave We did a lot of promotions. With the Avengers. We did bobbleheads, 642 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:25.239 which our players they were floored by, and I think we did We 643 00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.199 did three or four bobbleheads a season, so almost half the games. There 644 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:34.079 were other things that we were giving away. I mean we were, and 645 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.159 I think for the most part, everybody across the league, I think you 646 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:39.199 have to get into that game. I mean, that's kind of what the 647 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:44.719 sports fan is expecting these days. The NFL does not need to do that. 648 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:49.119 It's not it's not in their DNA. They can charge whatever they want 649 00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.199 to charge. Major League Baseball totally different animal, right, They got they 650 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:58.280 got quantity that they can sell for the most part, if you're not the 651 00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:01.599 Braves or the Dodgers. But even the Dodgers have they might have ten bobbleheads 652 00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:07.480 during the season, maybe more. I mean every game, every homestand let 653 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:12.760 me rephrase this, every series at home has got at least one game giveaway, 654 00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:15.159 and I would say it might be two, and it might be all 655 00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:20.119 three or four. I think there is things that fans have kind of expected 656 00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.440 from these I don't want to say lower end, but these these sports that 657 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.880 are right, are not on the higher end. I think there's an expectation 658 00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:34.639 that there's going to be more value somehow. I mean, look, it 659 00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:37.760 might be you know, we did a great family pack, and every team 660 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.599 across the board does a family pack, so you can control your costs. 661 00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:44.840 You know what you're doing going in. You get four tickets, you get 662 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.719 hot dogs, you get drinks, and you get something else ancillary. So 663 00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.280 I think you have to do that. I'm sure in the UFL, I'm 664 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.480 sure they're applying all those practices. I would think, you know, it's 665 00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:59.239 definitely something that you have to do. And you have to look at the 666 00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:05.039 layering of how you're selling your tickets. So you have the foundation if they 667 00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.920 have season tickets, right, and what's that look like? How do you 668 00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.800 and that's where that off season comes into play, and really the previous season, 669 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.599 how are you selling into the next season. And then from there it's 670 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:20.559 you know, you're talking about group ticketing, which is vital to the success 671 00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:22.519 of a team. How are they getting out and bringing groups in. That's 672 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:29.320 where you really can discount and hide that that value of pricing. And then 673 00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:35.000 you know promotions and different avenues. Some teams have done in Major League Baseball, 674 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.800 they've gone to the subscription model. Hey, give it a shot, 675 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.880 right, get one hundred bucks a person and give them five games and let 676 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.239 them choose what they're going to go to. You've got plenty of seats. 677 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.320 It's not like you know, I would I would take a shot at that 678 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.719 kind of strategy. So I think everything goes and I think this is truly 679 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:57.599 in the UFL situation, very similar to what we had the AFL. It's 680 00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.719 a whiteboard and you just throw as much shit that whiteboard and see what sticks. 681 00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:05.119 Seriously, you know, I mean, that's that's what it comes down 682 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.840 to, and see what works, and then you know what works, move 683 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:12.119 it forward, what doesn't work, pin it and hold it for another day 684 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:16.039 in case the environment changes. A couple of quick here just media questions before 685 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:17.920 we get out of it, in terms of the lead coverage, because I 686 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:22.199 appreciate your time and know you've been very kind with this. How did the 687 00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:25.199 AFL teams go about covering themselves and getting stories out? Like did the teams 688 00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:30.719 have staff writers or reporters, Because like the XFL last year, they had 689 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:34.119 a guy that was kind of doing like weekly blogs and articles. This year 690 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.000 we're not doing that. The UFL has never really had that, So I 691 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:38.920 mean it's like we're trying to do that right and get step, But how 692 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:44.159 did the league itself and the team's handle that. Well, my days of 693 00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.639 the AFL, so we can put this in perspective, social media was, 694 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:54.840 Yeah, it just wasn't that platform yet. So we were still very much 695 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.239 in Los Angeles we were, and I would say nationally to you, by 696 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:06.239 the way, we were still very much old traditional journalism relationships. We had 697 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.719 beat writers in LA whether they were with LA Times, whether they were with 698 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:16.239 the Daily News, the Orange County Register. We had those supports at each 699 00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:23.199 place. You know, look that entity when you're talking locally is a relationship 700 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:29.199 game. And this cuts back to is this a position, a media position, 701 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:32.840 media person position, media relations Is that a full time role that's in 702 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:36.559 the market twelve months out of the year. Now, one of the AFL 703 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:39.199 teams there, Orlando Predators, they ended up, I believe, if I 704 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:44.920 remember correctly, they cut their media relations person after the season ended. Well, 705 00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:50.719 that person still needs to maintain those relationships. And as the season starts 706 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.320 gearing up and you're starting to do things, there are stories that spot now 707 00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:59.519 the world's changed, and I recognize that, especially working at ASU and the 708 00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:04.400 journal in school. There are ways to create content and I think you have 709 00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.079 to work that old traditional aspect, but I think you have to figure out 710 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:14.360 what your content strategy and develop your own content right, create your relationships with 711 00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:19.039 enities like you, which is great that you guys are trying to, you 712 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:24.280 know, fill this void of football that's not the NFL, right, and 713 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:30.880 provide the content that those fans want to see. And so you know, 714 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.440 if I was running a team, I would make sure you were one of 715 00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.719 my best friends. You were one of my best friends, like you are 716 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:42.000 gonna whenever you need me, I'm on and whenever I can call on you 717 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:44.840 to help, I mean, and that's what the game is, right, 718 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.400 And then I would layer that with what am I creating or who can I 719 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:52.320 partner with SU Journalism. If I have a team in Arizona, right, 720 00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.320 I'm going to go in there and that content factory, I'm going to say, 721 00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:59.920 look, we need your help. We'd like, you know, ten 722 00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.559 stories a month if possible, that you guys can churn out. We will 723 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.280 give you guys all access beat riders, you know, the whole nine yards 724 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:12.199 and they do that. They do that with they've done that with Ratlers games 725 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.280 here, and I think it's really important because, first of all, what's 726 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:22.760 different from my days twenty years ago versus today? We got multiple content platforms 727 00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:28.320 that need to be filled right, and we cannot control where our fans are 728 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.519 per se. Our fans are across all of these platforms. So the question 729 00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:37.280 is do you have enough content? Are you communicating now? Now I say 730 00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:39.599 this and I will point this out. I don't know if you noticed, 731 00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:45.519 but the Arena Football League changed their website over the last few days. Did 732 00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:50.840 you notice? I haven't. It's been not enough bandwidth. What have they 733 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:54.840 done? They changed it, they took it's totally new. It doesn't have 734 00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:59.320 still doesn't have the information in it that you would expect, like you can't 735 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:04.480 go to a standings page, which is dumbfounding to me. But the reason 736 00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:08.639 I brought it up is I looked at their social links and they had Instagram 737 00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:13.440 and which I think they must have acquired in bankruptcy because it looked like they 738 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:17.000 still had the AFL account and they had X's. They had the AFL x's 739 00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:23.880 account, but they had Humble Humble like Humble. Okay, are you scratching 740 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:28.840 your head and wondering what Humble is? Because I was, Okay, why 741 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:34.320 are you wasting your time on Humble when you need to get in front of 742 00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:37.480 where the larger crowds are for a reign of football? I mean, I 743 00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:43.519 would argue LinkedIn. I mean, as stupid as it sounds, there are 744 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:47.000 people connected all over that place. How you found me? Who? I 745 00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:52.920 mean Humble? There's nobody on Humble, like, like, what's the point, 746 00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:54.920 right? I'm sure I'm going to get a note from somebody from AFL 747 00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:59.400 after this, but oh well, But my point is, and this is 748 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.760 my point to knock them. My point is, understand we're very fragmented and 749 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:08.800 try to figure out where your attention needs to be on multiple platforms, not 750 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:15.480 all the platforms, but on multiple platforms of significant meaning where you're going to 751 00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:22.800 affect fan engagement. That's what's most critical, right is how can you get 752 00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:28.880 engagement from your fan base or new fans and engagement from them. Well, 753 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:30.559 yeah, and kind of to round this out, because you know, you 754 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:36.039 were talking about the bee riders and stuff, and there just aren't that many 755 00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:38.519 anymore anyway, right, and especially some of these markets, and I think 756 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:40.639 we had talked last week on here, I can't remember. You know, 757 00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:45.440 like the Texas Rangers might only have a couple of bee riders, let alone 758 00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.320 you know, the Arlington Renegades, right Who's having the time to do that? 759 00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:52.239 So I think that there's this weird balance of like, well, we 760 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:57.400 need to work you know, there's not enough traditional media that we're working with 761 00:53:57.519 --> 00:53:59.920 right in terms of and I used to work in the local news. I 762 00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.280 worked with you know, the Fox here that had the we had the exbit, 763 00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:05.280 you know, all that kind of stuff back in the day. But 764 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:08.840 you know, there's not enough traditional media. But they were kind of scared 765 00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:13.800 of this non traditional ride. I know there's been sports gambling podcasts and things 766 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:17.280 that have had challenges getting credentialed for some of these games. So I know, 767 00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:21.039 the league to me is in a weird spot because like, you know, 768 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:22.840 I don't know who you're working with because you might only have a handful 769 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.719 of beat riders, but then you're not dealing with the podcasters and the YouTubers 770 00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:30.199 and the gamblers and all that. So I don't know where they're spending their 771 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:34.880 attention. But how would you given today's landscape I guess how would you balance 772 00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:39.960 that energy well, or would you accept everyone? You know, Max has 773 00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.920 the question here, would you accept everybody in the world that's trying to cover 774 00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:45.440 your league or you know where do you draw that line? I guess, 775 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:50.239 oh, yeah, no, for sure. Listen. I don't know if 776 00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:52.119 the site is still up, but you know, during my time at Arena 777 00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:55.920 Football, there was a site called arenafan dot com. Yeah, and there 778 00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.079 was a lot a lot of chatters. It's still up, yeah, Yeah, 779 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:04.320 there was a lot of chatter on that site. We didn't ignore it. 780 00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:07.679 If something came from that area, if there was content being written, 781 00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:15.280 we absolutely work with them and acknowledge them because they had audience, right, 782 00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.079 And so that's my point. You've got to look at where people are. 783 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:24.000 Look if there's a podcaster that's, you know, drawing five hundred people, 784 00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:30.280 you've got to make a decision. Do you help that podcaster and hopefully help 785 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:34.840 them grow? You know, evaluate, is there an opportunity, are they 786 00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:39.320 good? You know, I would probably error on the side of doing it 787 00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:44.679 at least once a year or something, you know, talking to them, 788 00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:47.840 because you just don't know, right, You don't know sometimes where those audiences 789 00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:52.039 are going to end up growing. But that is the new journalism what you're 790 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:55.480 talking about, right, Those are the beat writers. Those are the people 791 00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:01.559 that if you're getting covered and especially consistently by those people, then you have 792 00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:05.920 got to acknowledge who they are and you have to be in constant contact with 793 00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:10.519 them. That's media relations that hasn't changed. That hasn't changed. The platforms 794 00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:16.800 have changed, but the people in the relationship aspect that hasn't changed. Because 795 00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:20.559 I just think I think there's surround this out. I think there's a gun 796 00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:23.639 shyness because back when, uh, you know, the XFL maybe was announcing 797 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:28.760 things or we're trying to figure out trademarks and cities and teams, like you 798 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:30.639 had people that would go on team, people that would go on you know 799 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:35.920 whatever podcasts and release the cities before they were ready. Like you know, 800 00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:38.320 we're in week six, week seven of the UFL, Like there's no secret 801 00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.840 information, you know, like we're just trying to get you know, Darius 802 00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:45.000 Shepherd coming on the podcast or whoever like talking about it, you know, 803 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:46.480 a kick return or whatever. I mean, this isn't you know, we're 804 00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:50.280 not trying to get the inside scoop here a but I do think there's this 805 00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.039 gun shyness given things that have happened in the past, And I just like, 806 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:57.800 like I said, you know, lack of traditional media and then we're 807 00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.480 not you know, not necessarily and we're very black side of the one that 808 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.119 include myself in that. But like, I just don't know how how you 809 00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:06.400 balance that out, because that's it's something that all these you know, the 810 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:08.599 NFL's got to navigate. Who do we you know, who do we Creditio 811 00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:10.840 for the Super Bowl? Who do we not? I mean, every league's 812 00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:14.440 got to deal with it. But you would think the UFL, like you 813 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.639 said, any amount of tension at this point is probably good, good guarded. 814 00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.960 Yeah, that to me would be the box that qualifies. Right, 815 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.719 Hey, they're talking about us once a week. All right, let's go 816 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:30.559 talk to him. Check the box. Let's amplify it. I mean, 817 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.760 that's really what it comes down to, right, if you're talking about it, 818 00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:36.639 you're talking about it. We got to amplify it. How can we 819 00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:40.360 amplify it? Right? I would do something where you know, in today's 820 00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.519 world, we've got the luxury of saying, hey, you know, make 821 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:49.679 this up. Todd Mrco, the CEO of the ufls on with us today. 822 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.920 I would go take your podcast and connect it to the UFL site or 823 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:58.199 into my social media. I mean that all happens, right or should and 824 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:00.960 promote it so it's not just you voting it. We're all lifting it up. 825 00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:04.760 It's good for all of us, right, I mean, we're not 826 00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:07.679 getting enough coverage as it is, and so it's not a question of the 827 00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:12.280 old guard, it's a question of the new ways and how do we you 828 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:15.800 know, bring more eyeballs, bring more airs to the table and get people 829 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.480 talking about the product. And it only will happen if the content runs into 830 00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:23.400 them. Well you would be surprised when not surprised, so that does not 831 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:29.480 happen. So you know, we get you know, I mean we accept 832 00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:30.599 it. And I've gotten it both ways because they're like, yeah, the 833 00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:34.360 NFL, you know, like we've had the CFL commission on and they're not 834 00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:36.559 but it's like, hey, you should be just be happy that we're doing 835 00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:38.960 all this. So I understand both ways here, but you know, certainly 836 00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:43.000 not trying to plug that on my own, but just uh, it's just 837 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:45.400 a new landscape and I'm just I would be curious to know, like what 838 00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:47.880 their media strategy is there. Well, Todd, we have gone the way 839 00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:52.440 over time here. I think we could probably do another hour up. So 840 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.480 appreciative and thankful of your time today. Anything you want to plug talk about 841 00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.559 get into before I let you go, because tremendously I said, probably double 842 00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:01.880 over what I said we were going to do. Now. I'll wait to 843 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:07.320 promote next time when I have a new nonprofit to talk to everybody about. 844 00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:12.400 But I appreciate you finding me. It's been fun, you know, going 845 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.400 back to my arena days and you know, as I was telling you yesterday 846 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:20.480 and we were talking, you know, I talked through this stuff every semester 847 00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:23.519 with my students and the evolution of what's going on in sports, and in 848 00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:30.559 particular how you know everybody's trying to grab a piece of the spring league somehow. 849 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:32.480 I mean, it's amazing. We did account one day and I think 850 00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:37.519 I counted eight leagues that weren't the NFL ten leagues, and I don't think 851 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:42.960 people realize how many people are actually trying. And I think it's amazing too, 852 00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.199 by the way, that the NFL, who stays away from all of 853 00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:50.159 this for the most part. Back in two thousand and two, to two 854 00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:53.639 thousand and four. They got very engaged and very interested with the Arena Football 855 00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:59.000 League, very interested, and it's unfortunate that it didn't play out the way 856 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.840 it should have because that should have been the Spring League in my opinion. 857 01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:07.599 But I've enjoyed this and if there's anything I can ever help you with, 858 01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:12.320 don't hesitate to call. Well, Todd, we have officially fixed in the 859 01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:15.840 UFL. Here I'm want reading my title fixed fix the UFL, step by 860 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:19.920 step blueprint. Appreciate it, Todd. Good luck with everything else. And 861 01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:22.079 like you guys said, I hope you guys enjoyed the talk. You know, 862 01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:24.199 I send your tips and commissions our way. We'll share it. You 863 01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:28.199 fixed all this kind of stuff. So until next time, Todd, thanks 864 01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:37.960 so much. Thanks for well, it's not another spring football league season here. 865 01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:40.199 We don't have our good friend Kevin Kugler back on all the way back 866 01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:43.760 with the spring league. And I will say, I so enjoy even watching 867 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:45.559 the NFL games, like, oh, Kevin's here with Mark and they're in 868 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:49.000 you know, they're at loomen Field or whatever. So I appreciate that. 869 01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:52.000 Kevin Cougler here, Fox Sports, how are you? I am good and 870 01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:53.119 I know Red You've got a lot of Mark and Ither. Sure during the 871 01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:57.159 NFL season, because it seemed like every other week we had a Seahawks game. 872 01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:00.519 You know, it really did. And I yes, I I go 873 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:04.000 back and forth because I like the Washington Commanders of kind of some of the 874 01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.400 XFL history of that, and we tracked a lot of them, and obviously 875 01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:10.039 Seattle with my hometown here and my wife diehard Seahawks. Fancy. Yeah, 876 01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:15.559 it always seems like every time I turn on the game, there's Kevin exciting 877 01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:17.239 here. We're back. We've talked with you with the Spreen League I have. 878 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.440 I actually finally tracked down the Jowsers jersey. I don't know if I 879 01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:25.159 told you, Wow game Warren Jowsers Jersey from the Mega Bowl, all that 880 01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:30.840 stuff. Kevin here, We're back. We're UFL now where Fox and Redbird 881 01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:34.079 and everything combined. How is life treating you? What do you make of 882 01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.559 all this? You know what, it's actually been really fun. I think 883 01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:40.280 the football is really a high quality football, and it would make sense. 884 01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:44.119 You take the best of the USFL, you take the best of the XFL, 885 01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:46.280 you put them into a pot. You have eight teams to parcel these 886 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:51.079 guys out onto, and it would make sense that you're going to have the 887 01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:52.440 cream rise to the top, so to speak. And I think that's what 888 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:57.679 we've seen this year in the UFL. It's been a really good brand of 889 01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:00.920 football. I love the innovations of the league. I love the one, 890 01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:06.280 two and three point tries for extra point. I think I think we've seen 891 01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:08.639 a lot of really cool communications again this year, like we did in the 892 01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:15.239 USFL days between the officials and our replay command center, and I love that 893 01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:17.480 for the fans. I think it's great that that airs in the stadium as 894 01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.880 well as on our broadcast, because so how many times you've been sitting in 895 01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:23.039 the stadium and you're like, I don't know what they're doing here. I 896 01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:27.199 don't know what the officials are talking about, whether it's football, basketball, 897 01:02:27.199 --> 01:02:30.599 baseball. I like to know, and I like the fact that we share 898 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:34.079 that with everybody in the stadium as well as at home when you're watching on 899 01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:38.280 TV. Curious to you kind of I don't know that Fox has directives for 900 01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:42.840 you guys, because it's it's weird now this year where we're watching some ESPN 901 01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:46.159 broadcast, we're watching some Fox right and candidly, I think the Fox I 902 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:51.480 like, like we get a lot of sports betting on the ESPN, sometimes 903 01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:53.760 a lot of like hitting the over hit. Like do they give you guys 904 01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:57.320 directive? Is it trust now? Because you've done it so long, I'm 905 01:02:57.320 --> 01:02:59.800 just curious, like, what is their marching orders for you guys to come 906 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.880 up on the games? Yeah, I've had I will be one hundred percent 907 01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:06.039 honest with you. I've had no marching orders of any kind calling a game 908 01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:07.960 from Fox. No one has said to me, hey, be sure you 909 01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:13.920 do this or don't do that. I think there's a trust level that. 910 01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:20.360 I mean, we're putting out people who cover sports and football specifically all the 911 01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:23.119 time, whether it's Joel Klatt in our main analyst chair, who's the number 912 01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:25.960 one guy for college football, whether it's Kurt Menafee. And we all know 913 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.639 what Kurt has done over the years. He's been in football for a long 914 01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:34.559 time. I've covered the NFL for a long time, and obviously a lot 915 01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:37.559 of different incarnations of spring football over the last several years. I think there's 916 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:42.639 just a certain trust level. Fox is football. That's always been the mantra 917 01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:45.920 of Fox, and so I think when they put us on these broadcasts. 918 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:50.880 They trust that they trust that we're going to do the game justice, and 919 01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:53.360 I hope that's what we're doing, because to me, the game is the 920 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:59.800 thing. The stories that are in these games are so numerous that you really 921 01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:02.079 don't need to come up with anything else. You can talk about a guy 922 01:04:02.119 --> 01:04:06.480 like Briland Speaks, who looks at this as an opportunity to show what he's 923 01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:10.559 worth and to show who he is, an opportunity for a guy like Adrian 924 01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:15.280 Martinez to show that he deserves a chance after his college career to continue to 925 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:18.440 play professionally. A guy like AJ McCarron who's showing that he is a professional 926 01:04:18.519 --> 01:04:24.360 quality quarterback. I just the stories that are in this league are such that 927 01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:27.559 I don't think you need to issue any kind of a directive about anything because 928 01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:31.039 we can just tell stories all day long and supplement it with what's been some 929 01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:34.199 fun football. Well, and you pointed that out, I think the first 930 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:38.480 time we had you on and just the extra research that was needed to do 931 01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:41.559 games like this and really happen to do your homework and be able to be 932 01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:44.920 prepared for that because it isn't you know, Yeah, Okay, like Aj 933 01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:48.559 McCarron. People know you have to go like deeper on some of these players 934 01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.199 to get more information to be able to share that. So I think and 935 01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:55.000 you feel like it, certainly, at least from the Fox side. I 936 01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.920 think you do get a lot of like informed opinions here coming out from the 937 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.320 broadcast booth well, and I appreciate that. I hope that's the case, 938 01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:04.360 because at the end of the day, the goal for all of us is 939 01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:08.920 to boost the stories of these people in this league. I mean, these 940 01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:14.440 are all guys who are continuing their professional football career in the UFL. And 941 01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:17.960 look, everybody knows that the ultimate goal for anybody playing football at any levels 942 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.719 to play in the National Football League. And not everybody can do that. 943 01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:25.519 So what's the next best thing, Well, right now, it's the UFL 944 01:05:25.559 --> 01:05:30.039 the chance to get paid to play football, have a team, and really 945 01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.119 play some excellent competitive games. And I think that. I mean, the 946 01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:39.599 competition level has been razor thin with these games. I mean, Arlington is 947 01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:45.760 zero to six and they lose games by the slimmest of margins seemingly every week. 948 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:49.719 Because that's what this league is. This league is just one play changes 949 01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:54.000 the entirety of the game, and I think that speaks to the talent that 950 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.760 we have in this league this year. Yeah, I think it's a tough 951 01:05:56.800 --> 01:05:59.440 balance to do these and you know, like again, this goes all the 952 01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:01.519 way back to the USFL in the Spring League and even the XFL, Like, 953 01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:05.920 how do you balance wanting people to watch this now also knowing that this 954 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.599 is the kind of the show of people getting alonging to be at the show. 955 01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:13.039 I think it's a better this year. We had Darryl Johnson on preseason 956 01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:16.280 talking about wanting to kind of highlight more of just the talent in the football 957 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:19.440 field, you know, the play as it is now versus like every other 958 01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:21.599 line is, well, this guy's trying to get back to the NFL with 959 01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:24.719 this guy. Yeah, it's like you said, we know that, but 960 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.960 that can't be ninety nine percent of the conversation. No, I think. 961 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:30.800 Look, you go into any spring league, and you and I have talked 962 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.559 about this for years. You go into any whether it was the Spring League, 963 01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.320 whether it was the original XFL, whether it was the USFL, you 964 01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:39.840 go into it. I hope with the base knowledge of these guys want to 965 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:42.639 play in the NFL someday, whether they've already been there or they want to 966 01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:45.480 get back. You go into with that knowledge. I don't need as a 967 01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:48.960 play by play guy to underline every single play that's made and say and that 968 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:54.639 guy would like to take that film and go to X level. The focus 969 01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.199 for us is there's a game going on, and a game that means a 970 01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:00.079 lot to these guys, and a game that means a lot to the fans 971 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:03.559 of these teams. So let's cover the game. And the game speaks for 972 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:05.880 itself in a lot of ways. I mean, we've got a game this 973 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:11.280 weekend that on Fox is maybe the game of the year so far in the 974 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:15.119 UFL, with Birmingham and Saint Louis, two of the best, if not 975 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:19.000 the best, two teams in the league and maybe the two best quarterbacks in 976 01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:23.480 the league right now. And read you know this, all spring football is 977 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:26.760 about is how's your quality of quarterback play? That's where I always start with 978 01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:30.800 this. If you have good quarterback play, that is a really good base 979 01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:32.440 to start. I think the quarterback play is better in the league this year 980 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.480 than we've seen over the last couple of years, again because we've winnowed down 981 01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:40.079 the talent, but the way Adrian Martinez is playing at Birmingham the way AJ 982 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:42.639 mccerron is playing in Saint Louis. And I've had those two teams the last 983 01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:45.920 two weeks. I don't know of any two quarterbacks playing better right now, 984 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:49.480 and they match up this weekend. Yeah, we'll focus on that game here. 985 01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:54.679 I wanted to get your thoughts on. So we had the Renegads collapse 986 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:58.760 again, right the Panthers, and I'm watching and the Mariners game was on, 987 01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:00.280 so I've gotten this split three going on, and I see, you 988 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:03.800 know, Jake Dates, you miss the field goal, right, and anyone 989 01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.519 that why, I don't know how familiar with our with CFL history, but 990 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:10.840 a great Cup was lost than won by. It was the thirteenth man and 991 01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:13.559 there was the thirteenth man and then they got the kick again, and I 992 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.439 tweeted that out. I said, theirs CFL, you know rough Rider fans 993 01:08:15.520 --> 01:08:18.840 right now, Like, what was that like? Because here's this guy that's 994 01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:21.640 been automatic the whole season, had missed, you know, missed the kick 995 01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:25.760 earlier in the game, and then just that, like you think Reneges have 996 01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:29.239 Like I just curious your thoughts on that, and then kind of the Renegades 997 01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:32.199 collapse here. It was. It was something to watch because you saw him 998 01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:36.239 trying to get off the field as quickly as he could because there was there's 999 01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:40.760 somebody out there and all of a sudden, he knows, oh my gosh, 1000 01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:43.439 I'm not supposed to be on the field. And I think it was 1001 01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:45.239 a Jean Harris. And if it's not, I apologize to Jean. I 1002 01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:48.560 don't want to. I'm trying to recollect. And I thought it was five 1003 01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:53.079 that was running off the field late for Arlington, and if it wasn't a 1004 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:57.239 genre, my apologies. But there was a player that was trying to get 1005 01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:00.520 off the field late, didn't get off, and then he missed the kick, 1006 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:02.600 and you go, oh my gosh, there's a flag down, and 1007 01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:08.520 you knew right away. Twelve men on the field, it's a no brainer 1008 01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:12.319 call. And Michigan, by the way, still had their super challenge, 1009 01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:15.279 so if they didn't catch it, Michigan could have super challenged and had that 1010 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:19.479 called with the new super challenge rule this year in the UFL. So either 1011 01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:23.960 way, that twelfth man was getting called and Jake Bates was getting another chance 1012 01:09:24.199 --> 01:09:28.239 to kick that field goal. And you just know, based on the story 1013 01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:31.319 of Jake Bates this year, there was no scenario he was going to miss 1014 01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:35.520 that second kick. I mean, he he has been so he's been one 1015 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:41.520 of the biggest stories in professional football this spring and a chance for Jake Bates 1016 01:09:41.560 --> 01:09:44.399 to I mean, he's he is the He was one of the top twenty 1017 01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:48.399 trending topics in America yesterday after he hit his third sixty plus yard field goal 1018 01:09:48.680 --> 01:09:53.760 of the season. It's a crazy story for a guy who'd never kicked a 1019 01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:58.319 field goal before to come out in Week one, hit that sixty four yarder 1020 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:01.640 and get to the point where he hits another game winner yesterday. It's it's 1021 01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:05.720 really what this league is all about. It's all about giving guys opportunities to 1022 01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:09.439 show what they can do, and maybe they haven't had that chance before. 1023 01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:13.359 But to your point about the Renegades, man, it's to the point for 1024 01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.199 Arlington where you just watch and you think, how what crazy way are they 1025 01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:19.520 going to lose this game? Now, we've all seen teams like that over 1026 01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:24.680 the years where it's just it seems like they're snake bit and despite the heroics 1027 01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.760 of Luis Perez and a better running game than we've seen from Arlington yesterday, 1028 01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:32.479 they still figured it out a way at the end to not close it out. 1029 01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:35.079 And I mean, your heart goes out to those guys, because it's 1030 01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:40.800 got to be incredibly frustrating week after week after week to see it come down 1031 01:10:40.840 --> 01:10:44.960 to that kind of a thing again. Well, and it's hard because obviously 1032 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:46.880 the narrative coming in the season, even from the kickoff game, you know, 1033 01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:49.920 you have the USFL champions, you have the XFL champions, like, 1034 01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:54.239 you know, the they kind of the right agains, kind of limped into 1035 01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:58.000 the playoffs and you know they weren't Like I was at the championship game. 1036 01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:00.600 I'm not quite sure how they won that. I mean, obviously we have 1037 01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:02.960 a lot of friends on the team, but it's to see the disparity here 1038 01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:06.840 of the Stallion's kind of being undefeated here going in and the Renegades not are 1039 01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:12.119 you surprised? The Renegades were like, we're still And I love Luis sprez 1040 01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:15.199 He's been on the show like all the way back and the Joussers like he's 1041 01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:16.840 still like, we're not trying, Lindsay Scott Moore, We're not trying. 1042 01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:20.399 I know they have the third like it just feels like I don't know if 1043 01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:24.039 they if they're trying anything new now, if they're just kind of riding it 1044 01:11:24.079 --> 01:11:29.359 out, yeah, I think you're I always defer to the notion that the 1045 01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:31.840 coaches see it every day in practice and they know that Luis Perez is their 1046 01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:35.880 best option, because that there's no way that if there was a better option, 1047 01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:39.560 they're not going to put him out there right now. And I think 1048 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:43.439 for the Renegades, that's the best choice they have on their roster. And 1049 01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:45.479 you know, you've got Lindsay Scott. You're working him in a little bit 1050 01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:48.920 more and he's but yesterday we didn't see him throw the ball. He came 1051 01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:54.319 in and he and he ran or pitched exclusively in that game. And I 1052 01:11:54.640 --> 01:11:57.479 would be interested to see what he could do from a throwing standpoint. But 1053 01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.199 again, I always defer to this from a foot ball standpoint when I'm not 1054 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:04.960 in practice to see these guys, these coaches. I've never known a coach 1055 01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.079 who's willingly going to put a guy out there that's not the best guy for 1056 01:12:09.159 --> 01:12:13.079 his team and for his situation, And so I always assume that what's happening 1057 01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:17.079 in practice is Luis Prez is clearly the number one option for the Arlington Renegades, 1058 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:21.159 and you know he got hurt yesterday by a couple of drops. Again. 1059 01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:25.760 I mean, there's just some inconsistent plays there, and it's a fine 1060 01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:30.479 line in this league between winning and losing, and they have always seemingly fallen 1061 01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:35.439 on the losing side of that fine line. Speaking of the Super Challenge, 1062 01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:39.319 and that's kind of seems like a no brainer, right. It's something maybe 1063 01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:42.399 to work in here in a couple of years, I know, and if 1064 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:45.640 you want to go down the rabbit hole of the NFL ACUL kickoff or any 1065 01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:48.479 of that kind of stuff, but you know, more innovations here coming from 1066 01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:50.920 the league. I mean, it seems like that's something we can challenge anything 1067 01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:54.880 at any time, something to work towards here in the next couple of years. 1068 01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:57.359 I don't know about you, Reid. I love the Super Challenge. 1069 01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.359 I think it's great, and I think there's such a strategy to it that 1070 01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:05.560 we haven't really even gotten into yet. There's the strategy of do I throw 1071 01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:12.159 a flag for a Super Challenge on a play of my team to get a 1072 01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:16.119 penalty called against my team When a play goes wrong, if for example, 1073 01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:20.680 my quarterback throws a pick, I can throw a super challenge flag and say 1074 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:26.479 there was holding on my left tackle on that play, and they can go 1075 01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:29.880 back and call a hold, or they can call something that would negate a 1076 01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:34.479 turnover and negate a penalty. They gate something negative for your team with something 1077 01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:36.960 less negative. Oh, I think my guy moved early. All right, 1078 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:40.479 Well, we called a false start, so this is this place should have 1079 01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:45.199 stopped before it started. I think there's so much strategy involved in this, 1080 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:47.960 and I think as coaches get more comfortable with it. We had to play 1081 01:13:48.279 --> 01:13:53.560 over the weekend in the Houston Saint Louis game where we brought in Mike Pereira. 1082 01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:57.119 There was a play where pass rusher came in. Don mo OpenU came 1083 01:13:57.119 --> 01:14:01.640 in and hit reed senate pressure him hit him in the head. It wasn't 1084 01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:06.159 anything deliberate. He just in the process of going after the quarterback got him 1085 01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:11.359 in the head. And we asked him should they have used a super challenge 1086 01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:14.399 to get a penalty called on that which would have extended the drive? And 1087 01:14:14.439 --> 01:14:17.319 Mike Pereira said, had they used it there, he would have given a 1088 01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:23.119 penalty for roughing the passer. But again, I think it takes a certain 1089 01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:27.840 amount of time for coaches amidst everything else going on to wrap your brain around. 1090 01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:31.039 Okay, now I got to think about the strategy for this. But 1091 01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:35.119 in the NFL, you could almost have a designated Super Challenge guy on your 1092 01:14:35.119 --> 01:14:40.359 staff, like his only job is to come up with the Super Challenge moment 1093 01:14:40.439 --> 01:14:44.800 for your team. We saw Bob Stoops use it in wonderful fashion yesterday. 1094 01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.720 It gave the Renegades a touchdown because they negated a pass interference on Salcinela. 1095 01:14:49.239 --> 01:14:54.399 I would love to see the Super Challenge go up to the next level because 1096 01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:58.199 I think it adds a different layer of strategy. Now, I don't want 1097 01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:00.680 to add it on in addition to all the other views, and I don't 1098 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:03.119 think the NFL would want that either. I think there's a way to supplement 1099 01:15:03.159 --> 01:15:09.039 and weave it into the existing system that makes it even more interesting and exciting 1100 01:15:09.560 --> 01:15:14.439 and the strategy just becomes such a big deal. I love the Super Challenge, 1101 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:16.039 big, big fan of it. I think that's an innovation that can 1102 01:15:16.039 --> 01:15:19.479 continue, not only at this level, but at the NFL level. It 1103 01:15:19.520 --> 01:15:23.600 was the XFL game last year, and this is, however many thirty the 1104 01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:27.279 CFL and x l U games, But it was like Baalahawks Randy Gates. 1105 01:15:27.319 --> 01:15:30.039 I think the anti back day is like they had a pick sticks or something 1106 01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:31.880 like something had to have happened on this play, like we're just you know, 1107 01:15:31.880 --> 01:15:34.039 we're throwing it. We'll figure out what we want to call it on. 1108 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:36.960 But I think we talked about it at the time. It was kind 1109 01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:41.159 of like Survivor, like the evolution of the immunity idol, Like here we're 1110 01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:44.560 goin to get in the game play and figuring out do you like do you 1111 01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:46.279 like the kickoff? Do we like? And then we haven't seen the NFL 1112 01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:50.560 version of the XFL kickoff yet, Like very divisive statement, you know, 1113 01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:55.479 thing here right now it is, and I'm I'm not one hundred percent sold. 1114 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:58.039 I was really, I'll be honest with you. I was really surprised 1115 01:15:58.119 --> 01:16:02.640 that the UFL didn't go with the XFL kickoff, considering the NFL has adopted 1116 01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:06.560 the XFL kickoff strategy, so I was really surprised that they went with the 1117 01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:11.760 USFL kickoff versus the XFL kickoff. I know one thing, we get a 1118 01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:15.239 lot of returns. The return game is alive and well in the UFL, 1119 01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:20.640 and if you've got a good return man you're starting with field position at the 1120 01:16:20.680 --> 01:16:25.720 thirty five to forty five yard line nearly every drive. And from somebody who 1121 01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:30.079 loves offense and somebody who loves to see that work into play, I do 1122 01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:33.279 like that aspect of this kickoff rule. I like the fact that you have 1123 01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:38.680 the opportunity to have the return game involved. I was just very surprised, 1124 01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:44.159 and you're right, it's a very controversial topic amongst those of us who enjoy 1125 01:16:43.960 --> 01:16:46.760 the football year round, is well, where's the kickoff? What should it 1126 01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:50.520 be? I'm anxious to see the NFL implement it and see what it looks 1127 01:16:50.600 --> 01:16:54.960 like at that level this fall, because that's going to be a change, 1128 01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:57.680 and it's going to be something that everybody's going to have to get used to. 1129 01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:03.239 The USFL now UFL kickoff is a little more of the traditional kickoff in 1130 01:17:03.319 --> 01:17:06.560 that they just kick from the twenty yard line and then we have the returns 1131 01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:10.479 that way, and you have certain amount of rules to whin you can leave 1132 01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:12.800 and how far away from the line you have to be and all that stuff. 1133 01:17:13.159 --> 01:17:16.119 But I will be very interested to see this implemented from last year's XFL 1134 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:20.680 at the NFL level, and I think this is a year to look at 1135 01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:26.680 it and then adjust if necessary down the road. One more question here. 1136 01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:29.000 I want to talk Houston real quick as you call that, and then we 1137 01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:30.520 can I want to preview the BattleHawks game before we get out of here. 1138 01:17:31.119 --> 01:17:35.439 Like Houston really kind of disaster here, I mean really, and like you 1139 01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:39.720 know, we had the whole like Curtis Johnson was on preseason, I'm kind 1140 01:17:39.760 --> 01:17:42.359 of excited, and we had the rebrand and we're moving the teams and all 1141 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:45.640 that kind of stuff, but this team really can't seem to get anything together. 1142 01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:48.319 Going thoughts on kind of the Houston trash fire. Well, I mean, 1143 01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:51.840 and you saw their defense I thought play their best game of the season 1144 01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:56.159 this past weekend. That's not an easy offense to stop in Saint Louis, 1145 01:17:56.159 --> 01:18:00.399 and I thought they did a really good job of limiting AJ mccern. They 1146 01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:03.880 did a lot of bending but not breaking. But that offense has really struggled 1147 01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:06.479 to get things going. And I like Reed Senet a lot. I think 1148 01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:10.239 he is a talented quarterback. I think he's got a full grasp on this 1149 01:18:10.359 --> 01:18:14.239 offense. They're just not getting anything at all from a rushing game. I 1150 01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:16.800 mean, and with Mark Thompson, on that roster. I keep waiting for 1151 01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:20.079 that breakout game, like you and I have seen the last couple of springs 1152 01:18:20.079 --> 01:18:25.520 from this running back, and there's just been nothing of any semblance of a 1153 01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:29.399 run game that's come up for Houston. I mean, through six games, 1154 01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:31.600 I think they've rushed for three hundred and forty total yards. I mean, 1155 01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:35.159 you're not going I don't care what level of football you're at, and I 1156 01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:41.479 know it's a passing world in football today at every level. You have to 1157 01:18:41.479 --> 01:18:43.640 be able to run the ball a little bit. You've got to be able 1158 01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:45.520 to push the ball when you have to push the ball on the ground. 1159 01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:48.680 You've got to be able to get short yardage on the ground in short yardage 1160 01:18:48.720 --> 01:18:53.840 situations. And to me, that's been the most surprising thing with the Houston 1161 01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:59.319 Roughnecks this year, is there seeming inability to establish any kind of a run 1162 01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:03.239 game, even now with supposedly a healthy Mark Thompson. Who I mean, 1163 01:19:03.319 --> 01:19:08.319 my gosh, last year Mark Thompson was the difference for the Houston Gamblers then 1164 01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:12.439 in the USFL. I had fourteen rushing touchdowns, almost seven hundred yards rushing. 1165 01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:15.199 And this year, I know he was dinged up early and that's that 1166 01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:19.359 hampered his progress. But I've been really surprised they've been They've been unable to 1167 01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:23.800 establish anything from a run game. And look, you get a run game 1168 01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:27.720 going, that helps everything on your team, That helps your quarterback, that 1169 01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:30.880 helps your line play, it helps your defense. Without that run game, 1170 01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:35.359 it's been really hard to do anything for Houston, and that's I'm sure been 1171 01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:39.279 a frustrating thing for everybody there. I think they have talent, but they 1172 01:19:39.359 --> 01:19:41.600 just have not been able to put it together on the ground. And that's 1173 01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:45.600 where it's all to me, that's where it started to be shaking in terms 1174 01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:47.880 of, like you said, kind of the biggest game here of the weekend 1175 01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:50.399 coming that Ballahawks going. It could be a you know, it could be 1176 01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:54.920 a championship game preview where that one would be in Saint Louis, which we're 1177 01:19:54.960 --> 01:19:57.159 going to be out, I imagine would be pretty exciting. But what do 1178 01:19:57.159 --> 01:20:00.359 you make about this? Like it seems like the Stallions Ballahawks their tea, 1179 01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:02.359 but the Stallions are heading class shoulders. It seems about anybody right now. 1180 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:05.359 You've got the two best defenses first off, and I know we've got to 1181 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.079 talk to offense with these two teams. But the way these two teams have 1182 01:20:09.159 --> 01:20:14.119 defended this season I think is admirable. But I mean, ever since Birmingham 1183 01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:20.319 settled on Adrian Martinez, they have become this offensive juggernaut. And how smart 1184 01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:25.479 is Skip Holtz were two weeks ago? How do they win the game? 1185 01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:28.920 Well, Adrian Martinez wins it with his legs, So everybody's like, Okay, 1186 01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:30.960 we got to worry about this mobile. This guy's gonna run, this 1187 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:32.800 guy's gonna run. It comes out last week, throws for nearly four hundred 1188 01:20:32.880 --> 01:20:38.880 yards this past weekend in Birmingham's win. They so now when you're preparing for 1189 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:42.520 Birmingham, you've got to worry about Adrian Martinez running. You've got to worry 1190 01:20:42.560 --> 01:20:45.239 about Adrian Martinez passing. You've got to worry about this Birmingham defense. I 1191 01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:50.039 think Skip Holtz and Anthony Beck have done both tremendous jobs this year. And 1192 01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:55.600 I'm so anxious to see this quarterback matchup between AJ mccarrot and Adrian Martinez, 1193 01:20:55.960 --> 01:21:00.840 two very different quarterbacks. AJ's thirty three years old, Adrian's just twenty three, 1194 01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:02.520 twenty four years old, just out of college. So you've got two 1195 01:21:03.039 --> 01:21:09.079 very different kinds of quarterbacks, different ages, different spots in life. But 1196 01:21:09.479 --> 01:21:14.199 man, Saint Louis going to Birmingham, you feel like Birmingham would have the 1197 01:21:14.319 --> 01:21:17.279 edge, especially the way they're playing, but I know Aj Mccaern's going to 1198 01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:21.039 have something devised. And again, I've yet to see somebody in this league 1199 01:21:21.039 --> 01:21:25.720 stop Jaquem Butler. I mean, nobody seems to be able to handle this 1200 01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:28.680 guy. He's six' six, he's got good hands, good speed, 1201 01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:34.199 he knows how to use that size against smaller corners to his advantage. That's 1202 01:21:34.239 --> 01:21:40.159 a tough matchup for every single secondary in the UFL and I'm fired up to 1203 01:21:40.199 --> 01:21:45.319 see how Birmingham handles that because Saint Louis has eight men and they have Butler, 1204 01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:50.640 two of the biggest bodied wide receivers in all of football. To go 1205 01:21:50.720 --> 01:21:56.039 out there this weekend. It's a fascinating game from so many levels, and 1206 01:21:56.079 --> 01:21:59.720 I'm so excited for Birmingham and Saint Louis to get going on the field because 1207 01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:01.800 I think we've really been kind of looking forward to this matchup all season long. 1208 01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:05.079 Yeah, I think he canceled the season here, let's just really to 1209 01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:10.560 the championship. But it is crazy because even during the Birmingham game over the 1210 01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:13.560 weekend. I was watching you. They get all the sideline staff and you're 1211 01:22:13.600 --> 01:22:16.960 seeing Skip talk and they're talking to you. Matt Carral's given sideline commentary and 1212 01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:19.399 then you have it. They're talking like, oh yeah, even Jmr Smith 1213 01:22:19.479 --> 01:22:23.319 is involved in all this stuff. And you know, Skip's so good. 1214 01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:27.279 He has a whole quarterback room just helping them kind of coach up his quarterback 1215 01:22:27.359 --> 01:22:30.520 let alone what he's doing. It just it's it's an embarrassment of riches. 1216 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:33.000 It feels like for the Birmingham Sallids right now. It really is. And 1217 01:22:33.279 --> 01:22:39.439 I think the underrated other story with both of these teams is the culture that 1218 01:22:39.479 --> 01:22:44.039 these coaches have developed. I don't think it's easy in a shorter season to 1219 01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:47.960 establish a culture like you see with both Saint Louis and Birmingham. And a 1220 01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:50.880 credit to Anthony Beck and to Skip Holtz. Now they have a lot of 1221 01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:55.920 returning guys and that certainly helps that culture, a lot of guys who understand 1222 01:22:56.239 --> 01:23:00.760 what they're trying to do. But to be able to establish that culture in 1223 01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:06.000 a situation where you're together for just a few months, I think that's a 1224 01:23:06.039 --> 01:23:11.119 real tip of the cap to those two coaches and the staffs that they've assembled 1225 01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:15.239 in their respective cities. I can't tell you how impressed I've been with both 1226 01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:18.159 of those teams and both of those staffs and my dealings with them this year. 1227 01:23:18.399 --> 01:23:21.479 I'm excited to see what they do playing head to head this weekend. 1228 01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:26.399 Well, Kevin, I appreciate it taking time here early in the week and 1229 01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:29.039 working there on my work schedule and everything else. That means a lot. 1230 01:23:29.079 --> 01:23:30.199 And like I said, I always get to see you back involved with all 1231 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.560 of this stuff, and you know, it's a you know, it's a 1232 01:23:33.640 --> 01:23:36.199 job, and it's also a passion here to company to be involved in all 1233 01:23:36.239 --> 01:23:39.359 this stuff, So that means a lot. So thanks for taking the time. 1234 01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:42.520 Oh No, I love this stuff, you know, Erett. I 1235 01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:45.479 mean, shoot, We've been having these conversations since the Mega Bowl days a 1236 01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:48.159 few years ago, right after COVID, and I look forward to them every 1237 01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:51.680 time. So thanks for having me on. And you feel like last I 1238 01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:54.880 think I was saying here, you feel good about this, You feel good 1239 01:23:54.880 --> 01:23:57.159 where we're at now with the UFL. I do, I really do? 1240 01:23:57.239 --> 01:24:00.840 I really feel like there is a I mean, look, there are always 1241 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.640 situations and things that can be improved upon. Everybody knows that, but I 1242 01:24:03.640 --> 01:24:08.079 think for a first year with two merged leagues, I think you've seen a 1243 01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:11.359 lot of real positives and it really I mean, look, I know I'm 1244 01:24:11.359 --> 01:24:14.479 biased, it's my business, but I think you have to be really encouraged 1245 01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:16.840 by the television numbers that you've seen for these games. People are watching. 1246 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:21.800 There is an audience out there to watch football in the spring. We as 1247 01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:26.680 a culture, we as a society, we love football and we love it 1248 01:24:26.760 --> 01:24:29.760 all year round if we can get it, and there is that market for 1249 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:31.279 it, and I think you've seen it reflected in the TV numbers, which 1250 01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:35.000 I think is a really good base to build from as we continue to push 1251 01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:39.880 this forward. Awesome Kevin Koogler, Fox Sports. Really appreciate your time. 1252 01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:46.439 Thanks thanks for having me on read Well. How do we do think? 1253 01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:49.800 It was a fruitful conversation with Todd, and of course I always enjoy catching 1254 01:24:49.880 --> 01:24:54.560 up with Kevin as well. I'm getting his thoughts from the Fox Sports broadcast 1255 01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:58.319 perspective and I've had it was interesting, you know, like does Fox give 1256 01:24:58.319 --> 01:25:00.880 you kind of directions for the broadcast so they trust you? Guys? Thought 1257 01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:03.760 Kevin was great thought Todd was great, Like I said, get him this 1258 01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:08.079 random email from me, you know, on a Friday afternoon last week, 1259 01:25:08.119 --> 01:25:10.840 like, hey, do you want to come on and talk some alternate football? 1260 01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:13.279 So hope you guys enjoyed. You know, it's not always apples to 1261 01:25:13.319 --> 01:25:16.560 apples here. You know, they like the AFL and the United Football League. 1262 01:25:16.760 --> 01:25:21.479 But I think ticket sales or ticket sales and marketing is marketing and advertising 1263 01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:26.479 and engagement kind of the same no matter what what you know, if it's 1264 01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:30.439 a sport, if it's the entertainment property, anything else. So hopefully Todd's 1265 01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:31.880 got some good ideas there. Like I said, let me know what you 1266 01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:35.399 guys thought. Did you enjoy Todd's perspectives? Agreed? Disagree kind of all 1267 01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:39.439 of that stuff. We'll figure out what we're doing next week. I've been 1268 01:25:39.439 --> 01:25:42.960 in conventions filming the last couple of weeks, so hopefully we will settle down 1269 01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:45.479 and get you a little bit more CFL content and everything else like it. 1270 01:25:45.560 --> 01:25:48.159 Subscribe, but we'll see you guys next time. Thanks and take care of