Thank you for listening to Depiction's Media Radio. Welcome to Policy Rights to show
about government policy and human rights. Welcome back to Policy Rights here in Depictions
of Media Radio, I'm your hosts Michael Cloggs. In today's segments, we're
going to hear from the NDP opposition in Alberta, and we're also going to
hear from Jack meet seeing as he's answering questions to the press about the motion
that he put on the floor to remove the the Special Advisor for the interference
into the electoral process in Canada. And we're going to hear some statements about,
of course the wildfires, and Justin Trudeau is going to reinforce that we
don't need a public inquiry into the interference into the Canada electoral process. So
let's focus on the Canada electoral process. And the real problem isn't so much
that it may be safe now, but does the public believe that it is
safe? And with that, if the public doesn't believe it is safe,
we're going to see fewer and fewer voter turn routes and it will have an
effect on how our government, our government processes work in electing electing officials and
decision making that it's turned out to a vote and then come back again that
who is actually going to benefit from this? You know, it could be
China, of course, or it could be some other foreign government. Since
everybody strongly at this point and it's strongly suspecting it's China, or is it
some other factor that's already in Canada that holds some corporate clout in our society.
We need to strongly look into that, and thus they need for a
public inquiry. So jag Meet Singh is possibly correct in demanding and in putting
emotion on the floor that would ensure that public inquiry what happened. He's talking
about how he's going to put pressure on the Liberal government to ensure that public
inquiry happens into what is actually happening, not only with the electoral process,
but also in the withholding of information that certain MP's were under surveillance by a
foreign power. These things do actually need to be looked into. They do
need to be reported, and and we need to do the things necessary and
gather the information necessary in order to keep our government safe and the things that
make Canada the country that it is. In order to keep them safe,
they need to be looked at. So why don't we listen to today's show
and you decide and make a voice to whoever your local MP is about keep
government safe so that we can vote and know that our vote is being heard
Nadian style. Confidence in David Johnson and all other parties of how say they
don't talk about offends. It's understandable that the political parties want to make partisan
points on this, but the fact of the matter is Dave want Johnston a
service but extraordinary passs decades. He has chosen a number of times the most
important jobs by Stephen Harper himself. He's a man who, as the report
shows, is taking this incredibly seriously and gathered all the intelligence necessary. What
we've highlighted it is that the intelligence is available for the leaders of the opposition
parties to avail themselves ves to understand what underpends the very good report that to
mister Johnston put out, and the fact that they're choosing to be able to
continue to play partisan games in that of getting d into the actual facts.
At Amoto shows some passive you don't measure it did on the a semester shows
that measures who see tremol Mark Patti show, though in public ec die in
shows connected made David Johnston consut his expired Rogan stress Couski can finish passy Fason
Donico flows with the Donko filos. We cannot say the next seas that example,
we'll see a video you tatical in Magree is a rascian so or we'll
see dogs in k to lay fast films to mister Johnston named z I P
D Big weep that that's us that up on shows of the coveted. There
are experts that that would like to see a parting inquiry danced at and former
CESUS member was four committee yesterday. He says other inquiries required to restore confidence
in institutions, whying on his word and allow. We didn't appoint than to
be the expert looking at this. We looked at a whole bunch of different
people who we would task with this job because everyone is allowed to have opinions
regardless of their back. What we're looking for is whether it's the basket path
for it, and that's exactly what we entrusted this former governor general, who
has a stellar reputation and level of integrity, to actually look and write this
report and he will notice that the opposition parties are not emphasizing any disagreements with
the actual report or conclusions, particularly because they refused to get the necessary briefings
that are being offered to them to be able to understand and accept or disagree
with those conclusions. They're continuing to do add hormonem attacks, personal attacks against
Daphad Johnson operate if they nearly Kid's been about. We see demo scomy poking
well seek bascula more laprushisis per leader, run stress, your extreme toxic,
your your DZ doing a popcornd lang jie host men as saying they need the
land and is expected keep is Susia place, the families attack the constitute fair
for trave the chap V Paris every Monday. I'm the super command that your
sigr did you know pop special your member part you own or your poligion not
only all seats that you can the super year newpo consoles here attack. Certainly
did the democracy only do the she was you have a constitute fail The traders
associate us responsible from the very politic Well, I'd like to first take a
moment to express our tremendous shop and awe and empathy for people across the country,
particularly in the Atlantic provinces right now, who are being affected by wildfires.
The images that we've seen coming out of Alberta and the Northwest territories over
the past weeks, the stories and the images we're seeing coming out of Nerva,
Scotia and New Brunswick are heartbreaking. We know people are extremely extremely distressed
by what's going on. As a federal government, we are there, we
will be there to support. Minister Bors regularly engaged, our local MPAs are
active on the ground as much as possible. We've actually asked the Public Service
to give technical updates to all party leaders so that they can know exactly what's
going on, what our response is, and contribute more ideas and things that
we can do on top of it. And we're continuing to look at ways
for all Canadians to be able to support people who are suffering to these devastating
first files and will continue to be there for people. Will explan more,
say bad sea in the n poles, that I've a would be scald,
that I keep having food, father on a VP dismay and then don't cloves
or less over very close even for one slick and easy emerged, so tearable
only on them. With that Mr and the Minister of blow it to the
first app me for as you cfil down these as your technique or chef de
possibly show sm fair paple fruit flip, discover our spasst for its be very
short opening. We have a motion today week. We want to see all
members of this House support our emotion calling from mister Johnson to be removed the
special rappertore and to have a public inquiry de la champ devote mister Johnson occublique,
I'm ready for you. Yeah. What happens if the motion passes but
the government doesn't do what the motion says, they keep David Johnson there?
What are the consequences are there any Well? First of all, the consequences
our Canadians going to see that mister that the Prime Minister is no longer putting
the interests of the country in front of his own personal interests. There's really
no reason now to continue with mister Johnson when it has become very clear that
this is nothing nothing personal about mister Johnson or his credibility. But the appearance
of bias is too strong that it undermines the work that mister the Prime Minister
hope that mister Johnson would be able to do. So they would sure that
he's no longer putting the interest of really restoring confidence of democracy, and he's
more interested in protecting a position that he's taken which no longer makes sense.
There anyway for mister Johnson to continue. I believe strongly, and I've said
this before, I believe that mister Johnson is absolutely an honorable person. If
he sees that the world of the House is for him not to continue,
I believe he will take that as a clear message that he can't continue to
do his work and he'll step down. That's still that's still something that I
believe, say, say on a basis on ID Thebuque, la decision d'avou
and special Incision Pasque, on a dec to, on a twosial deal,
on a bison doing, on Kett publique, le pros suston on Kett Publique
confiance, the not a system elector I'll on continue that Dezac of a continue
sing your emotion, doesn't say do this or else, so he just continues
to ignore you. Well, this is our tools that we have We're going
to continue to put pressure on the Prime minister, put pressure on the Liberal
government, much like we put pressure on the government in the past to bring
in dental care. They said no two years ago. We kept on fighting,
We kept on pushing. They said no twice. Two years ago,
they teamed up with the Conservatives to oppose it. And now kids under twelve
have dental care and seniors will get it by the end of this year.
So ignore this is what's happened in the past. We've fought for things and
the Liberals have not wanted to do with the Conservatives teamed up with them in
the past. We're gonna keep on pushing. We're gonna keep on fighting,
continue to support the government if they do not agree with your emotion. You
just said he would have put the country's interests behind his own. How can
you continue support him? Then, Well, let's let's look at that.
We've got an agreement where there's twenty seven things that this government has to do
to help Canadians. If we move away from that agreement, we're gonna let
the Liberals off the hook. The Liberals don't want to do these things.
They didn't want to bring in dental care. They don't want to bring in
farmacare, they don't want to bring in protections for workers. They don't want
to do any of these things. So if we get rid of the agreement,
it's just gonna let the Liberals off the hook. I'm not gonna let
them off the hook. We force them to commit to these things. We're
gonna make sure they follow through on these things. They would love to get
out of this agreement so they don't have to deliver on pharmacare and dental care.
We're going to continue to push to deliver the things that Canadians need because
Canadians need a breaking See pasque on a du movie, chos on a basil,
public see done and non Savida coming on accept let prostitute on points affair
on don say insert the car no On'll give Rice a quick question and then
sure the deadline takes up the terms of your emotion. If it passed,
we are saying that they should and this is the will of the House.
I'm hoping that it does pass. This will be the will of the House.
And I think that mister Trudeau, the Prime Minister, continues to be
in the wrong side of this issue, has shown a failure to recognize how
serious this is and he would be on the wrong side and have to answer
the Canadians. But we're going to put this out there. This is the
will of the House. I'm hoping mister Johnson does see this message clearly and
the Prime Minister does and does the right thing. Blocks on say the Monte
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the government is asking the r CMPE to offer more protection to see two cabinet
ministers and senior government officials. What do you think about the fact that this
is even necessary. I think it is disturbing. It is concerning. One
of the things that is maybe a high light of Canadian politics is the accessibility
that people have with ministers with elected officials. People are in public and can
be approached in public. I think that's a positive thing. There's certainly a
climate of aggression that from a from a fringe or a small group of people,
but a climate of aggression that has made that that public appearance more difficult.
I particularly think about vulnerable members of parliament. I think about people that
are more likely to be targeted or more vulnerable if they are targeted. And
that's not the climate we want to have in politics. We want people to
feel that they should enter into this field if they want to, and they
are not going to receive violence or threats against them personally. People can disagree
and that's normal, but not to see that level of violence where people feel
the need to have security, that is a troubling trend that we're noticing.
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h yeah. Welcome everyone, Thank you for joining for what is an important
update in the continuing response to the MASH Casualty Commission's recommendations. Before I share
the microphone with my colleague, the Public Safety Minister, Marco Manicino. Thank
you, Marco, by the way for being here with us today. I
just want to offer a few thoughts on the ongoing emergency situation of my home
province of Nova Scotia. By this time, you'll all be aware that communities
across our province are ablaze. The reality is that the number of people displaced
is approaching twenty thousand as we speak. There are hundreds of homes that have
been damaged and are at risk of being destroyed as a result of the wildfires
that continue to impact Nova Scotia. Over the past few days, we've been
doing what we can to make resources available to respond within our areas of jurisdiction,
including aerial surveillance from Transport Canada. There are Coast Guard helicopters that are
on route to the scene to assist now, comfort trailers for crew, and
a number of other measures. Whether you look at extending the fishing season for
harvesters who've been impacted, and will of course be looking to continue to cooperate.
Within the last hour, we have received a request for further assistance from
the Province of Nova Scotia. We are coordinating across all departments to identify how
and to the extent we can continue to provide support. As a Prime Minister
said over the past few days, the federal government is going to be there
to answer positively to the requests of Nova Scotia and to Nova Scotians. Our
priority is to help keep people safe during this emergency. A quick thought for
those who have friends, neighbors, or family members who are impacted, I
look out for one another right now. These are challenging times and to the
first responders who are on the scene, we are so lucky to have your
services. To keep people safe during an emergency like this is something I am
so grateful for. To the extent anyone in Nova Scotia as an opportunity to
say thank you to the first responders who are on the scene scene, please
take advantage of the opportunity to do so. These are heroes living amongst us
in our communities that are saving lives. Folks, all turn it over to
my colleague, Ministerrmentacino to share an important update on making good of some of
the recommendations from the Mass Casualty Commission Marcall. Please thank you Sean Melcy,
and as we begin, I would like to acknowledge that we're on the traditional
territory of the Algonquin peoples. And before I do come to the substance of
the announcement around an update on the implementation of the Mass Casualty Commission Final Report,
I do want to echo the sentiments of Minister Fraser that the Government of
Canada is working very closely with the Government of Nova Scotia to respond to the
wildfires. I've been in touch with Premier Houston as well as my counterpartm Minister
Brad John's on this. My colleague Minister Bill Blair is in very frequent contact
with the government there, and of course, along with Sean and the rest
of our colleagues from Nova Scotia, no new runs with I beg your pardon
and all Canadians our thoughts to go out to each and every one of you,
and we will be there for you, and as we have been there
for Nova Scotians at this very difficult time, it is important that we also
acknowledge that this is shortly after the third anniversary of the awful and tragic shootings
in Porta Peck in Nova Scotia. In April of twenty twenty. We know
that it's been a little more than three years since then, but despite the
passage of time, the trauma resulted. It wounds some plain to se others
beneath the surface, both equally felt by the community. Musabon cole chemin de
la geison long a new devau faire to suky it not least debt inde sible
k subi the gouvernat Canada face apart as le fas dere le fank to treasury
plugem. Earlier this year, the Independent Mass Casualty Commission issued their final report,
and I had the privilege of being present along with the Prime Minister,
Minister Fraser, Premier Houston, as well as most especially the families who were
impacted, as the commissioners set out their findings. Their final report included numerous
recommendations that would help to prevent and respond to similar incidents in the future,
touching on police reforms that would strengthen, among other things, training communications between
police and government, emergency alert protocols, gun control laws, addressing domestic abuse
and intimate partner violence, and relationship with Indigenous communities. The report sets out
a critical path forward to reform the RCMP, reforms that are long overdue and
reforms that I want to be clear that I, in my capacity as the
Minister of Public Safety, are committed to seeing through. To coordinate this effort,
the Commissioner also recommended that the Government of Canada and Nova Scotia work together
to establish an independent body to monitor both progress in advancing the important findings as
well as being transparent with Canadians as we move forward. And today, in
response to that recommendation, I am very pleased to announce, along with my
Nova Scotia counterpart, Minister Brad Johns, that we are creating the Progress Monitor
Committee and that retired Justice Linda Lee Oland will be appointed chair of that committee
with an initial one year mandated repance as Recommandacion dance avec monomolge develecos le Ministre
Brad John's canoe creon le comte de suivi de progre e colajuele Retret Linda Lee
Olend serra presimite aveca manda initial DNA. One of Justice Oland's first responsibilities will
be to consult with the representatives of organizations implicated in the final report issued by
the Mass Casualty Commission's recommendations and findings, as well as with other individuals,
partners and organizations in order to identify a list of proposed PMC members as we
are calling it by this July, so this will happen very very quickly.
The founding chair will also ensure that the work of the p MC, this
is the body that Justice O. Land will be leading, is guided by
a trauma informed and victim centric approach. Demagne general le jujo Land joura roul
de premier plan dona suivie de la maisouvre de concion de leon favorisand le diction
le lacion on ascurent la liaisons province, lei de Gajean, on conccius chant
de poste de guvenamand du Canada de la nouvelle coos en vous de battire de
commute pursu. While the events of April twenty twenty are permanently etched in our
collective memory, we have entered a new phase in our recovery. It is
now up to the governments of Canada and Nova Scotia to take up the work
outlined in the Commission's final report to confront the tough questions that are posed in
that final report, to work together with law enforcement, particularly the RCMP,
to work with the families, the communities, the victims, and the survivors
so that we can move forward. The Progress Monitoring Committee and Justice Olent are
well positioned to ensure accountability and transparency on this front, and we very much
welcome the next steps as well as the results of their work going forward.
To all of the victims and survivors, friends and families of the Port Topic
and Troro shootings, and indeed all Nova Scotians, your pain will never be
forgotten. No one should have ever had to endure the loss that you did
during those awful two days in April twenty twenty. We know that the wounds
are still felt. But by making this next important step and appointing Justice Oland
to champion the work of this committee, we will be able to see through
the final report, address its recommendations, reform the RCMP, restore trust,
and build confidence of Canadians in our law enforcement institutions so that this kind of
tragedy never occurs again. Thank you, Mercy, David Johnston, Unique malgre
de Letta Partisans, So mister Johnston swe COMFIANC recommend evok and and parculaner uh
SeTau and the de Seiance public asset exact demands, Fair Basque AVEC and Canadian
Le PROTECTIANPO those institute Chian democratique confiance. They can agaend to and have a
public inquiry. This is not about appeasement. This is about doing the right
thing. And what we have done since we have taken the reins of government
is put in place the authorities that are necessary to protect Canadians from foreign interference.
And it is the Conservatives who are engaging in the height of contradiction by
you know, saying one thing and frankly doing another. You know, they
say they want to be tough on foreign interference. They have voted against every
single authority that our government, a liberal government, has put into place.
They say they want to lay to bear truth and facts. Mister Pulav continues
to refuse to take the briefing. He should take the briefing. Conservatives,
it's the block, it's the NDP. They all want a public inquiry.
And to day the NDP has put forward this motion calling for Johnson to step
aside. So clearly there's unanimity there that the opposition parties want a public inquiry
and they don't think that Johnson is the person to lead this path forward.
We're going to work with mister saying he has said that he is prepared to
take a briefing. We're going to work with all parliamentarians. But the first
step has to be to equip oneself with the facts. And we have said
repeatedly now for more than a week that we are prepared to provide mister Poilev
with the same access that mister Johnston had to classified information. And for reasons
to pass understanding, he refuses to take the briefing. Stepping up protection OURCMP,
protection from ministers and top bureaucrats, I'm sorry, Is your government stopped
stepping up our SMP, protection from ministers and top bureaucrats in life and all
the things. Yes, we've been vigilant about that. We've put into place
a number of new protections, including providing panic buttons for parliamentarians, making sure
that parliamentarians have a rapid response mechanism with information and support. This is a
requires a community of law enforcement branches, including right here on the Hill,
working closely with the Sergeant at arms as well as the Parliamentary Police Service.
So we will continue to be vigilant because quite frankly, the threat landscape as
it pertains to not only elected parliamentarians, but the people that work in our
constituency offices, the people that work on the front lines, and I would
say disproportionately women, disproportionately racialized Canadians, disproportionately Indigenous peoples. They are the
ones who have to be at the center of our work on this and we
will continue to add moret commission here you all. At the same time,
the RCMP called for the fast Catholication, called for sweeping reforms to the RCMP
overhauling, taking a new look at contract policing, changing depot training and completely
eliminating it. Are you committing now to taking those steps or only to think
about taking those steps. No, we're going to take the steps, and
in my job as Minister of Public Safety, I am driving those reforms.
We have made progress on a number of but what the Mass Casualty Commission final
report makes abundantly clear is that there is still a long way to go on
each of the critical areas that you have identified. What we have done today
is put in place a respected retired jurist in Justice Oland, who herself is
a resident of Nova Scotia, with deep community roots, with an understanding of
how these reforms can be taken from what are words on a page and translated
into a reality that will mend trust and reform the RCMP is how we can
build confidence. Just to be clear here, to be clear, I want
to make sure that we do that work with Justice Oland and the other members
of that committee who will who will be appointed in very short order. But
what I have said is that this is a report that is the product of
many, many months of work, in fact more than a couple of years,
who have heard from a wide range of expert witnesses. And the fact
is is that we do have to take a hard look at how it is
that new members of the RCMP are being trained. We've got to take a
look at the way in which we can restore trust with Indigenous communities. I
mean, we have here a Homi Batista and we had a very good conversation
within the last couple of months in Escazzoni about how that trust has to be
not only restored but strengthened. Some of the recommendations touch on that, particularly
around training, and I'm going to keep a very open mind about what recommendations
will be implemented, implemented with the guidance and the advice of a very respected
former jurist in justice and three recommendations, those that fall to you, those
that fall to the federal government. Are you saying yes, we're going to
implement all of those. Are there some that you know that you cannot cross
that line that you will not be able to implement. I'm not striking out
the possibility of excluding any of them, but i do think it is important
to underline that we have already moved on a number of concrete recommendations. Let's
take one, very practical one, emergency responses. As painful as it was
over those two days, we have taken some lessons and the RCMP are making
progress in better leveraging social media, being public about where emergencies manifest so that
we can keep Canadians informed about how to take practical steps to protect themselves.
There are other recommendations that are already being implemented, and we're going to have
more of a concrete update in the very short term about that. But I'm
not saying no to any recommendations. I think it's the opposite. I think
we have to be as open to implementing as many of these recommendations as we
possibly can, as quickly as we can. And I've had a very direct
conversation with Commissioner Juham, who, as you know, just completed the changing
of the Guard, and I know that he is committed to seeing this work
through as well. Now, you're not announcing anything today, anything concrete or
specific that would have stopped Gabriel Workman from going on a shooting spree. There's
nothing specific announcing today. Well, that's actually not correct. The announcement of
Justice Oland is a significant step because she will be part of the implementation and
accountability body that will help to ensure the follow through on the one hundred and
thirty recommendations. But let me come back to some of the other substantive progress
that we have made. In addition to the emergency alerting improvements that the RCMP
have made. Recommendation seepoint to one of the final report suggested that the government
strengthened the national ban against AR fifteen assault style firearms. We have acted on
that recommendation by including a new technical definition which just recently passed in this House
by a voting margin of two to one. So from where we were from
a few months ago to where we are now is a significant stride forward in
putting in place stronger gun controls that will help to reduce thought likelihood and the
risk of another mass shooting strategy. And that is the fundamental differ between what
Canadians get with a liberal government who sees the value of putting in place strong
gun controls, and what you get with mister Polev's conservatives who would repeal all
of this legislation and make air fifteen style fire arms legal again. There are
some aspects of RCMP management culture that are so bad you can't wait for more
reports. It has to be dealt with, probably by September. Are you
going to be able to meet that kind of time frame? And I think
that is a very fair question than I am very cognizant to the fact that
there are numerous recommendations that have recommended a path forward to reform the RCMP,
and that is why it is so vital that we put in place just as
Oland and other members of the community and experts to follow through on the recommendations.
The RCMP is at a crossroads, and what is important is that to
mend trust, we have to implement these recommendations. And now the Government of
Canada is acting decisively and concretely already, and I have given two very specific
examples in ways that will reduce the possibility of another mass shooting. But we
need to work closely with the RCMP, We need to work closely with the
government of Nova Scotia. We need to work very closely with the families who
are at the very center of this work, so that we can again men
to trust and build a confidence of Cannadians longer that you take to first of
all, decide what recommendations you're taking and then get into the process of doing
them. That Canadians are not vulnerable to another mass casualty situation. We have
a tragedy, we have recommendations, and then there's a long bureaucratic process before
anything really gets decided. What is going to be different in this case,
Well, Rachel, we've already acted on two very critical recommendations, so that
shows that to decide on which other ones you will vot do that shows our
government's commitment to take action, even before we set up this committee. But
the reason why we are making this announcement today is because the Mass Casualty Commission
had process very much a part of the strategy to follow through with these recommendations.
And so by appointing Justice Oland, and by quickly populating the rest of
that committee, we're going to be able to accelerate the progress that I think
that your questions our life. I think we do it. I'm sorry,
what are we supposed to take from you waiting until the deadline day to make
this announcement. Well, first, we wanted to be sure that we got
the selection right, and there were very important conversations that we had with the
government of Nova Scotia. I also think, in fairness to the families,
we wanted to socialize some of the options that we had, including Justice Oland.
As I said, she is herself a Nova Scotia resident. She is
a respected jurist. She sat on the Nova Scotia Supreme Court, she sat
on the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal, and so bringing the community along was
part of the reason why we had to take the time to get this right.
But now that we have appointed her as a chair, and I can
assure you as you heard in my remarks that we are going to be filling
other members on that committee very quickly by July that we'll be able to make
even a more accelerated progress on all the recommendations already. Mike Mike Allie asked
the question about whether or not you're going to implement those our CEMP reforms we
discussed, and it kind of sounds like you were deferring to this new justice
you've appointed. Are you going to close a depot? Are you going to
take those actions or are you going to wait until she's appointed and defer to
whatever decision she makes. That's not really her job. It sounds like it's
about implementing them. So can we get a firm commitment that everything the report
he's recommended it's going to get done even as you pose that question with its
urgency, And I understand why it's such a significant decision, because for the
benefit of those who don't know, a depot is the main recruitment and training
academy before you become a Mountie. It is a significant decision. And what
the final report maps out is the fundamental principles in building blocks by which we
can take a more evidence and research based approach to modernizing that training, and
in order to do that, you have to work with various communities, including
the First Nations and indigenous communities that are in Nova Scotia, that are right
across the land. And so one of the touchstones has to be proper consultation
as we make the significant reforms that are necessary to the RCMP. But i
am absolutely committed to seeing it through and I'm absolutely committed to moving as quickly
as we possibly can, but in the right way. Appeals Court that the
government does not have to repatriate for Canadian men who are accused of being part
of ISIS. As the government see this decision from the court as a win.
What is your reaction to this, because you've been challenging this well.
Obviously the decision will be absorbed by the government. Our priority, first and
foremost is to make sure that we safeguard the country and our orders from any
potential terrorist activity. And as we said, to anybody who may have been
traveling abroad for terrorist purposes that is against the law, there will be consequences
for that. At the same time, we are also have also undertaken a
process and a framework by which there can be decisions taken around repatriation, but
it has to be done in accords with the principal of law and we'll have
more to say as we observe about decision. Thank you very much. Good
morning, Bojoda, Tush, Charley Angus. What cha quay we're on here
on the unseated territory of the gon Quin Nation. I'm here this morning with
Gil McGowan of the Alberta Federation of Labor. Over the last year we have
been working closely with the union movement across Canada, and particularly with the energy
workers in the West on pushing this government to get serious about making commitments in
a clean tech future. Alberta energy workers have the skills and then know how
to make this happen and they want to be at the table. According to
the International Energy Agency, for the first time, clean tech investments are almost
double what it is in oil and gas. If Canada doesn't start to make
a serious commitment to move forward, we are going to be left with stranded
assets and communities left out. The New York Times this morning is reporting an
onprecedented jump in clean tech energy and battery plant production within nine months of Joe
Biden's Inflation Reduction Act coming into law, and Canada risks being left behind unless
we move decisively. In the recent federal budget, we did see some very
impressive promises for clean tech, but those promises are just words unless there's the
legislative tools to ensure that this is a worker focused transformation that is not going
to leave communities behind. We are calling for a number of elements that have
to be in this legislation. The Sustainable Jobs Council must include representation from labor.
Labor has to be at the table. We want clear definition of the
role, mandate reporting requirements of the Sustainable Job Secretariat. It's a great sounding
word. What is it and how do we ensure that investments that are being
offered will come with the strings attached that will have involvement from labor, from
indigenous communities and from the regions of Canada to make sure that we benefit and
that the expertise that is being brought forward through the Energy workers are able to
help direct this transformation of the global economy. We have one chance to do
this right and we cannot fail. Lamonde fefas increased climatic may alment, TAMPIA
and transfer Marcion any economy energetic monziale say nessa pula Canada joue role import la
montiel there le energy, drab le travail, the le energy, the lust
so the sees a laquasion suis the cista. Gil mcgawan President Delberta, Le
travail de Alberta, damon de meton place religious, lascion necessaire, poor guaranteer,
curls investis mount Dona Energy prop profitta n community a travaire le travallo del
ni voul etro a le tab de decision elson, le expertise de la trances
o reality a elzon lei de protge le de trava aide legion to Canada.
I'll turn it over to gil mcgallan. Thanks Charlie, and thanks for joining
us this morning. On Monday, we narrowly elected or reelected climate change denying
government in Alberta. This isn't just bad news for the environment. It's also
bad news for the Alberta economy and for Alberta workers. It's bad news for
workers and the economy because change is coming, whether we like it or not.
We can either be prepared for that change or we can be run over
by it. The UCP, under our Premier Daniel Smith, unfortunately, is
choosing the latter. They're choosing to stick their heads in the sand. They're
choosing denial over preparation. They're choosing to hold our province back while the world
moves forward, and all Albertans, including Alberta workers, will pay a price.
But it doesn't have to be that way. The world is in the
early stages of what can only be described as the biggest economic paradigm shift since
the Industrial Revolution. That shift is happening because citizens, businesses, and governments
around the world are increasingly recognizing that climate change is an existential threat to humanity.
This realization is driving action. The vast majority of governments on the planet
have committed to move towards a net zero economy. An industry is following suit
with their investment decisions. Last summer, the Biden administration turbos charge this process
by embracing a nationwide industrial policy aimed at pivoting the American economy towards new opportunities
in the net zero economy. The keyword for US is opportunities. The unfolding
global energy transition has huge implications for oil and gas producing jurisdictions like my home
province of Alberta, but it also presents unprecedented opportunities for investment, job creation,
and continued prosperity. That's why the labor movement in Alberta, representing workers
in both oil and gas, oil and gas related construction and manufacturing, came
together last fall to produce a blueprint for an alternative economy in Alberta. We
called it skating to where the Puck is Going, and it outlined six priorities
for changing the Alberta economy and pivoting towards continued prosperity in a changing world.
First, in that report, we told anyone who would listening listen, including
our provincial government and the federal government, that in this unfolding energy transition,
the priority has to be jobs, not just labor market adjustment for people who
might lose their jobs in this transition, but the creation of good jobs that
will sustain families and communities. Second, we said that we had to put
a priority on embracing the idea of industrial policy because change will not come just
by itself. It has to be intentional, and that intention has to be
embraced and supported by governments. Here in Canada, at both the federal and
provincial level. Third, we said, our governments and our industry have to
put their money where their mouth is. Fourth, we said that when it
comes to providing assistance and incentives for industry to make this transition, governments have
to attach strings to the money that they provide as incentives. And fifth,
we said that this has to be a whole economy and whole a government effort,
which is an important point because, as we discovered with dealing with bureaucracy
in Alberta and increasingly with our experiences with bureaucracy and government, there are too
many silos that have to be broken down in order to make the change that
needs to happen at the scale and the speed that it has to happen.
And sixth and finally, we said that in order for the change that we're
proposing to make sure that it improves lives for everyone, workers have to be
at the table, not just as an afterthought. We have to be there
from the beginning. We have to participate in decision making to make sure that
the changes don't just help business, but they actually helped the working people who
are going to be at the front of this change. This morning, I
just want to say that my interactions on behalf of our workers in Alberta have
been constructive. With the federal government. Over the last year and a half.
We've had very productive discussions with key ministers, including Minister Wilkinson in Natural
Resources, Minister o'reagan in Labor, and also Minister Freeland, Deputy Prime Minister
and Minister of Finance. They have met with us in good faith. They
have taken our recommendations seriously, and I'm very pleased to say that a lot
of the work that we set out to do with the federal government has been
done. Specifically, when we came to them last year and said that we
needed the government to embrace the idea of transition with a focus on jobs as
opposed to labor market adjustment, they accepted that recommendation. So their priority is
creating new jobs and seizing new opportunities to create new prosperity as opposed to just
try pick up the pieces as change unfolds. Second, they embraced our notion
that we should be embracing industrial policy as the goal to help facilitate this change.
And then third, we asked that they put their money where their mouth
is and that's what we saw in the full economic statement and in the recent
budget they earmarked fifteen billion dollars for incentives over the next five years that will
help diversify the Canadian economy, especially the provincial economy in Alberta, and that
money is going to escalate to about eighty billion dollars over ten years. What
we asked them to do from the unions in Alberta representing workers in oil and
gas, oil and gas related construction, and oil and gas manufacturing, we
said that we had to match the American government's ambition in terms of size and
scale of their incentives, and with what was announced in the federal budget,
we feel satisfied that they've they've done that. The fourth thing that they've done
in good faith is listened to our suggestions on attaching strings to that money.
Specifically, in order for companies to benefit from the full amount of the incentives,
they have to they've agreed to what we call labor conditions, so they
in order to get the full measure of the incentives, they have to pay
a prevailing wage, which we're working with the federal government and good faith on
to define what are prevailing wage is and they also made a big commitment to
make sure that we're training apprentices for the future of our trades. The work
that's yet to be done, and that's why I'm in Ottawa today has to
do with the sustainable Jobs legislation that the federal government has promised and which we
are told will be introduced sometime in the next couple of weeks. We want
we've got the political commitment, we've got money on the table. Now we
need a legislative framework to make sure that the job actually gets done. And
yesterday and today I've been meeting with senior bureaucrats and with political actors in the
federal government to talk about what we in the Alberta labor movement would like to
see in the Sustainable Jobs legislation, and basically that what we're hoping is to
see the remainder of our priorities. We've checked off a number of our priorities
on our list, but what hasn't yet been seen is a framework that will
facilitate a whole government effort to support investment and job creation in these new opportunities.
So we need legislation that will make sure that we can break down these
barriers between departments to make sure that ideas and money are flowing to where they
need to go. And then we also need a labor seat at the table.
So we need to create a framework for decision making to make sure that
that this work gets done. And we've made it clear that this transition can
only happen with working people, especially workers in the most affected sectors, participating
in the decision making process, and that means from the from the from the
get go, not as an afterthought after decisions have already been made. As
I said, we're very pleased with the discussions that we've had so far.
The federal government is coming to meet to the table, to meet with us
in goodwill, and we're confident that the legislation, when it's introduced, will
be a big step towards the direction that we hope to see this to see
our country moving in terms of seizing the opportunities that are presenting themselves in the
as we pivot towards a net zero economy. I'm going to wrap up this
morning by telling you what I'm worried about with the reelection of a UCP government
in Alberta. What I'm as as a representative for working people in our province,
including people in oil and gas, oil and gas related construction, and
oil and gas related manufacturing. I'm frankly terrified that our provincial government will make
it more difficult for us to seize the opportunities that are in front of us
in the unfolding global economy. And I'm also worried that they will hold us
back so that we fail to seize the opportunities that are in front of us.
And I say that because the UCP over last three years, and especially
in the lead up to our recent provincial election, has chosen to look at
the issue of the global energy transition not as an issue about defending the public
interest, but through a political lens, and they've tried to politicize a discussion
that really should be about the public interests. So instead of pairing our economy
and supporting incentives that will support job creation and allow us to prosper in a
changing world, they've chosen to play politics. And one of the reasons I've
flown here the day after our provincial election is because Alberta needs to engage with
all partners at all levels, including the federal government, including business, to
make sure that we don't get left behind as the as the global economy transforms.
As I've said many times, this change is happening whether we like it
or not. We can choose to prepare for it and prosper or we can
stick our heads in the stand and left behind and be left behind, you
know. And in order to make sure that that doesn't happen. In order
to ensure that we actually seize these opportunities for prosperity that are in front of
us, our provincial government has to engage with all the relevant partners. That
includes the government, And so if they're not going to do that important work,
then that will fall to other Alburtons, including those of us in labor,
those of us in our counterparts in the business in Alberta. Um,
we'll have to have the conversations that our provincial government should be having. And
if that's not my first preference, but I know that there are many Alburtans
of goodwill in the labor movement, in the business community who will be engaging
with the federal government on these important discussions even if our provincial government refuses to.
So with that, I'll just wrap up and I'd be happy to answer
any questions that you might have just this made a stupid question, but your
time with the whole of government approach breaking down barriers, this is one of
the big things you want to see in the legislation. Can you just explain,
like I'm five of what you're talking about, what is this, what's
wrong with the sort of the system now around this, and exactly what needs
to change is It's maybe maybe a stupid question, but just just a question.
UM, well, I'm gonna ask to us in two ways. First,
I'm going to refer to some of the experience that we had under the
previous Alberta government. Um. You know, between twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,
UH, the new Democrats under PIU Premier Rachel Notley were in charge in
Alberta, and UH they responded to some of the concerns that we had raised
in the labor movement about diversification and UH support for workers who are being who
are losing their jobs as a result of the coal phase out and UH,
and we became it became very clear to us that in order to get the
kind of support that we needed from the provincial government at the time, we
had to be talking to the right people. So when the when they announced
the cole phase out, it was under the Environment Department, and uh,
you know, jobs were being phased out, and those a lot of those
people were our members, and uh we ended up talking with people in the
Environment Department who knew nothing about labor policy, and so it became very clear
to us that when dealing with government, you got to talk to the right
people for the challenge at hand, right And so, uh you know,
that's why I say you got to break down barriers between departments. Uh,
and that and that's that that's true at the federal level as well. So,
um, you know, right now the discussions on the sustainable Jobs legislation
are being led by the Natural Resources Minister, which is fine, but his
department is not specialist in many of the other areas that we feel very strongly
need to be part of the discussion. So, for example, the Labor
Department has to be involved in the discussion because of the responsibility for labor markets.
The Department of Employment and Skills Development has to be involved because of their
responsibility for training, and then departments like industry have to be involved. Certainly,
the Finance Department needs to be involved. So that's why I say and
traditionally, governments, whether it's provincial federal level, don't have a great track
record of all these talking across silos. And that that's why some kind of
framework needs to be established in this legislation. I think there's an opportunity to
do this with this legislation, to create a framework that will facilitate the discussions
that need to happen between uh, these different departments. And I don't want
to cast dispersions. You know, the people who work in each of these
departments do great work. But because we're talking about such a big change over
such a short period of time, and we're talking about you know, they
need to seize these opportunities and not be left behind. We can't let uh
these silos and the bureaucracy stand in the way of us doing what needs to
be done. So that's why I'm hoping that this legislation will will create a
framework that will allow the kind of uh, you know, UH communication,
cross pollenization and and and UH and collaboration that's necessary between these different departments.
So I think I think they I think they get it. And you know,
like in the conversations that I've been having UH with people from natural resources,
labor, finance industry. I think they understand that the status quo and
the silos that exist in um uh, you know, in and between the
departments UH, there needs to be something done to be break to break down
those barriers in order for us to adequately prepare for the challenges in front of
us. Recently, we've heard it was more about used to in the Maritimes
with tidal energy projects, but there were some concerns that federal regulations and and
sort of the system of approving certain projects was too onerous for the seize the
moment speed imperatives that you're talking about. Ye, do feel like in this
area it's it's a similar thing that the culture of government, and it's maybe
where you're talking about now that the pace at which they make decisions is not
appropriate for the task at hand or the climate crisis at hand and what needs
to happen. Yeah, it's interesting that you asked that question, because like
during those four years when the new Democrats were in power in Alberta between twenty
fifteen and twenty nineteen, one of the things that Premier Notly did at the
time was established what they called the energy Diversification Advisory Committee, which was a
joint labor business advisory committee that put together recommendations about diverse sification in the Alberta
economy. I was actually chosen as the labor co chair and there was another
coach chair from business. And in our final report, one of the things
that that we suggested was an effort to uh speed the regulatory approval process for
diversification projects. So that's something that uh you've heard from the business community.
It's something that we in labor support. There are huge opportunities that that are
out there. Um, but we are competing with other jurisdictions, uh,
including the United States south of the border. So if we don't put money
on the table, if we don't uh speed the regulatory process uh for for
projects that uh you know can create jobs and get us to where we want
to go and to go in terms of diversification, UM, you know,
we'll fall behind, right so uh so you know, so it makes I
don't know if it sounds like it's a surprise from the President of the Alberta
Federation of Labor, but on this issue about speeding the regulatory process, we
agree with our counterparts in business. In fact, one of the things that
I repeat over and over again when I'm meeting with government officials, both of
the provincial and federal level, is that when it comes to diversification in the
Alberta economy, in order to pivot and seize opportunities in the net zero economy,
the labor movement in our provinces is in many respects on the same page
as the business community. And in my remarks I mentioned that we had come
together through the Federation of Labor with our energy, construction and manufacturing unions to
produce an economic blueprint. We called it skating to where the puck is going,
borrowing that famous phrase from Wayne Gretzky, and we released that last fall.
But almost at the same time, similar reports were being released by the
Calgary Chamber of Commerce, the Business Council of Alberta, and in the broad
strokes they were very similar. So even though we've just seen the reelection of
a government that is essentially a climate denying government, a government that refuses to
have serious conversations about diversification um and a government that continues to stick its head
into sand in terms of seizing these opportunities for investment and job creation in the
new economy. Uh. You know, when people think of Alberta, they
think of Daniel Smith and the UCP and their denialism. But the reality is
that in Alberta right now, there's this amazing consensus that's being that that's being
reached outside of the political sphere by people in business, people in labor,
people in the broader community. We understand that change is coming, uh,
and that we need to prepare for it or run the risk of being left
behind. That's that's That's what I'm hearing from my counterparts in unions and Alberta's
here. It's what I'm hearing from business organizations, not incidentally including the big
oil sounds companies represented through organizations like the Pathways Alliance. You know, I
guess that's one of the things I would encourage Canadians to understand is that when
it comes to this unfolding global energy transition and the opportunities it presents, our
currently reelected UCP government is not actually representative of all Alburtons. They've chosen to
politicize these issues and demonize anyone who talks about preparing for transition. But the
reality is that most Alburtons are way ahead of our government on these important issues.
I've got a question for both of you, if that's all right,
Just going back a bit to the budget twenty twenty three, we're talking about
the labor requirements that were attached to those investment in tax credits. This is
my read, Correct me if I'm wrong, But I think that would only
apply to you the construction phase, not necessarily ongoing manufacturing and whatnot. How
I don't know, I guess how do you assess the fact that that wasn't
part of the package? Like was that a big loss to you know,
unions and the NDP both, How do you and like where do we go
from there in terms of maybe attaching more strings to future UH programs outside of
the just transition legislation or sustainable drums? Yeah, yeah, that that that's
a really important question. And um, and it is an issue that we
raised quite vigorously with the federal government. And and and maybe just for the
benefit of those who are watching, um, when when the when the federal
liberals, uh, let me put when when the federal government introduced the budget
for twenty twenty three last year, they made a commitment to fifteen billion dollars
in incentives to support in investment in clean tech hydrogen carbon capture and sequestration,
and they attach what they described as labor conditions to all of those investment incentives.
And so in order to get the full benefit of those incentives, companies
would have to commit to paying a prevailing wage, which is you know,
still being defined, and so we're working hard with finance officials to get a
definition of prevailing wage that actually you know, pulls as many people up as
possible. And then they also have in order to qualify for the full benefit
of the incentives, they have to commit to training the next generation of trades
people, which is important because a lot of big construction companies, especially the
non union companies, do not actually take on apprentices. They choose instead to
poach from companies that do, who in most cases are unionized, and so
that puts the unionized companies at a disadvantage even though they play us at this
usually important role in terms of training the next generation. Uh. So we
in the labor movement, we lobbied for those labor conditions, we got them,
uh, and we're very pleased. But as you said in your question,
uh, the way that they've been designed is that the labor conditions only
apply to the construction phase of these new projects, uh, and not the
ongoing operation of these facilities. And so what we said during the lead up
to the province to the federal the federal budget was that we wanted to see
similar conditions attached to all phases of these projects, including once they went into
operations. So whether it's you know, like a manufacturing facility or you know,
or an oil and gas facility. Uh. We you know, we
we said that there should be conditions if they're going to get continued ongoing public
support that would require that they pay a prevailing wage higher apprentices because this is
not just an issue for the construction sector. So um, we were disappointed.
Um that uh that that that they didn't extend the labor conditions uh beyond
the construction sector. Um. But this is still a live issue. And
so we in a labor movement, through groups like the Alberta Federation of Labor,
through our individual unions, through the Canadian Labor Congress, we're still bringing
this this conversation to the federal government. Uh. They haven't said no,
but they haven't said yes. Uh but uh, well, but they they're
still meeting with us to have these discussions. So we're hoping that we'll find
a way to make sure that every company that gets public money to incent their
projects, uh will be required to you know, to pay their their workers
a decent wage or prevailing wage, that they'll have you know, requirements on
on training, and that these requirements will go beyond construction that will apply,
uh, you know, to to the companies you know, who are getting
these incentives, regardless of what stage of development they're at. The issue of
labor commitments, apprenticeship commitments goes to the very heart of the negotiations that began
on the Sack agreement between Liberals and the Democrats, because we did point out
to the government, you know, the Prime Minister goes to COP twenty six,
makes all these big announcements in Canada, misses every single climate target they've
ever made. Joe Biden goes to Cop twenty six and says he's going to
create a new economy based on good paying union jobs. And we said to
the Liberals, we never heard that language from you guys. We've never heard
that you are committed not just to meeting your global targets, but that you're
looking to reassure Canadians that they are going to be part of a new economy,
and that industrial policy vision was a huge hurdle. I mean, I'm
going to say our liberal friends are way outside their comfort zone on this,
and we're going to get them a little further outside their comfort zone because this
is really important stuff. So when we heard that they were going to put
labor conditions, that was really good. When they said they were going to
put apprenticeships, that was also a good signal. But this is not over.
This is why when we set up the Secretariat and the Job's Partnership Council,
labor has to be at the table so that we know that this isn't
just nice words that ends up getting you know, projects offshored. This is
words that are put into reality, and that reality is about creating a new
energy economy where families are going to be able to know that there's a take
home pay at the end of the day, that there's going to be apprenticeships,
that there's a better future for our communities. That's what the government has
to reassure Canadian communities, regions and workers for. So yeah, this Gill
says, this fight's far from done. We will say what we've got is
we've got a flag in the field. Now we've got to get we got
to get to the pass the finish line. And what are the major sticking
points in those discussions, Because you know, I understand getting the construction requirements
in first, that's going to be what's coming up first. I guess,
Yeah, where's the resistance coming from during those talks? I think you'll point
it out initially it's really again outside the comfort zone of government to come up
with legislation that is cross departments and getting them to understand you can't just put
legislation in and so you're going to transform the Canadian economy. That's ridiculous.
That's a recipe for failure, and we've unfortunately seen a lot of failure.
We saw what happened in the Cod Fishery. I come from northern Ontario.
I don't know how many of my mining communities have gone down with nothing except
a little manpower center and a twilight economy. We're talking about a crisis,
We're talking about an opportunity, and so getting government to understand all the way
up through the Prime Minister's office in the PCO that this is just going to
be Minister Wilkinson over at nar CAN, but this is going to be the
Labor minister. This is going to be environmental policy, this is going to
be ESDC. We need them all working together and we need them working with
labor and communities. So there's a number of sticking points. I'm hopeful that
when the legislation comes we're going to see some areas of real transformation. This
Sustainable Job Secretariat, what is it, what does it do, what is
its mandate? What are the accountability mechanisms, what is the data that's being
collected. Because if we don't have good data on where the jobs are,
on where the opportunities or where the losses are, we've got nothing. So
we need we need language there that's very clear on the Job's Partnership Council.
We want to know that there's going to be again co chairs and that Labor
is one of those co chairs and the Government's not taking this as just some
you know, little desk that's going to be in the minister's back office.
But this is actually going to have a mandate to drup government on where to
goes. So those are two key areas. There's a number of things on
the Sustainable Jobs Plan, nice words, talk about training, talk about upscaling.
What is that going to look like and how is it going to affect
people in different parts of the country because the transformation is happening in various locales
in very different speeds right now. I think one of the reasons we work
so close to the Alberta Federational Labor is there's nothing theoretical about this in Alberta.
This is what's happening on the ground, so their expertise is really really
important. So we're optimistic we can get there, but we're moving a mountain
and we have to get that mountain move very quickly in order to start catching
up to where the Americans. I've already just gone way beyond what anybody thought
could have been done. So the Americans haven't all a government approach. We
have to at least match that. No question, I don't want if you
can, don't your whole day here, but minor staying is In previous months,
the NDP and maybe even the AFL was quite involved discussing this with the
government, even in the tent. If that's the right metaphor in terms of
crafting this. Has it been similar with the legislation and like, how how
close are the talks around this? How how involved are you guys. I've
been called to pain in the ass. I think that's a pretty good thing
to be called. Um, let's just say, uh, we're about that
far off them on their backs every day all day into the evening because we
got to get this right and we got one shot at it. So they're
they're constructive. Let's say they're I would say they're constructive, but we really
have to deliver and there's gonna be a lot of questions when this legislation comes
for it, and we want to be able to answer those questions day.
Thank you for listening today. Um, some final thoughts. There's a lot
of talk about and we keep hearing more and more about gun control and how,
oh the mass shootings and things like that are a US problem, but
killings are not a US problem. If you go and you seek out one
of our documentaries Hate Kills, you will find out that there are there are
still movements in Canada that are just as armed as some of the some of
the militia groups that are responsible for mass shootings in the United States, controlling
magazines, magazines and number of bullets they can be loaded into a gun.
That's a really good first step. Notice I said first step. We need
to move beyond that. We need to move beyond gun control, and we
need to move into hate control. We need to find those who perpetrate hate,
and we need to retrain their minds. We need to find those who
want to spread love and perpetuate it. We need to stop the hatred because
its people don't kill people. Guns don't kill people. Hate kills. The
sooner we come to the conclusion that we need to stop the hate and all
the rest of it falls in the place, the faster we will save lives.
Gun control a good first step. Let's get into the schools and start
talking love so that we can end the hate. Okay, so you've have
been listening to policy and rights here in Depictions Media Radio. I'm your hosts
Michael Clogs. The opinion is just hurt is my opinion and maybe not necessarily
the opinion of everybody here Depictions Media. But either way, For continued updates
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