WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:17.960 Hey, yeah, welcome to Blurry Photos. I'm your host, David Flora. 2 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:21.559 I've got a fun interview coming up for you, and if you're interested 3 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:25.239 in seeing the film Shadows in the Desert the thing Derek Hayes and I have 4 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:29.000 been working on it for the past few years. It'll be in a couple 5 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:32.240 of theaters soon, with hopefully more on the way. I'll tell you the 6 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.960 details real quick and then we can get into the episode. So, as 7 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.240 of right now, you can see the film in Coshocton, Ohio on August 8 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:46.840 twenty fourth. That's if we can work out the details of playing the film 9 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:52.399 there, But right now we're scheduled for August twenty fourth at the Shelby Theaters. 10 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:57.520 You can see it in Joplin, Missouri from September eighth to September fourteenth 11 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.280 at the book House Cinema. And you can see it in Crested Butte, 12 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.959 Colorado on September sixteenth at the Majestic Theater. We could be adding more, 13 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.359 so keep up to date on possible additions by going to Borego Triangle dot com. 14 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.239 We're still awaiting a stream date, and as soon as we know, 15 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.239 I'll post on all the socials and announce on shows when that will be so 16 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.799 on to the episode. I had the pleasure of meeting journalist, editor, 17 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.959 producer, and author Laura Krantz at a recent literary festival and suckered her into 18 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.159 coming on Blurry Photos to chat with me. Laura is the creator and host 19 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.640 of wild Thing Podcast, a long form narrative podcast about the obsessions that capture 20 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.799 our imaginations. She has produced three seasons of the show, each focusing on 21 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:51.400 a different topic, including bigfoot, UFOs, and nuclear power, and she 22 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:56.719 has parlayed these seasons into a book series for middle grade readers, starting with 23 00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:00.599 the Search for Sasquatch. She joins me to talk about the book and her 24 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:07.560 experiences getting to know the world of bigfoot research. Here is my interview with 25 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:17.159 Laura Krantz. Enjoy. She's the host of wild Thing podcast and the author 26 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:22.199 of the new book, The Search for Sasquatch. Laura Krantz, Welcome to 27 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:27.240 Blurry Photos. I am very excited to be here and to discuss all of 28 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.520 the blurry photos that I have not taken. It's funny because throughout the series 29 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.960 you do say blurry photos quite a bit in there, and every time my 30 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:40.879 ears were like doing. Oh, Laura and I were recently on a panel 31 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:46.400 at the Mountain Words Literary Festival here in Kristibute, Colorado, and I was 32 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.719 lucky enough to grab a copy of the book, which I'll talk more about 33 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.599 later, But first I want to ask you about this journey you've taken to 34 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.639 get to where you've been able to write a book, and particularly about your 35 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:04.599 experiences being relatively fresh to this realm of the unknown. So you actually have 36 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.120 a connection to this stuff, a connection that you didn't know about for a 37 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:12.280 while, Is that right? Yeah, So I really found out about this, 38 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.479 Well now I found it's two thousand and six, so now we're closing 39 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.360 in on twenty years ago. But what happened was I was living and working 40 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.639 in Washington, DC, and there was this big article in the Washington Post 41 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:29.319 about a guy named Grover Krantz who had just donated his bones, the bones 42 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.800 of his three Irish wolfhounds, who are already dead. I have to clarify 43 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.479 that some people think he killed his dogs and the Smithsonian he did not. 44 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.479 The dogs were dead, but he had donated his bones, the bones of 45 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.599 his dogs to the Smithsonian for them to have in their collection. And they're 46 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:49.360 always looking for you full specimens to have, and he really wanted to be 47 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:51.840 put on display, and they were like, yeah, that's probably not going 48 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.520 to happen. But as luck should have it, they were doing an exhibit 49 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:00.639 on forensic anthropology and like how you can find out stuff from bones, and 50 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.039 the last piece of the exhibit, they wanted to do something really, really 51 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:10.120 cool, so they recreated a photo of Grover standing in someone's backyard with his 52 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.120 dog, Clyde, who was his favorite of his wolfhounds, and the dogs 53 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.800 got its paws up on Grover's shoulder, it's standing on its hind legs, 54 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.720 it's like licking his face. It's a very sweet photo. They recreated that 55 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:24.720 with the two skeletons and put it on display. And so this article in 56 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:30.759 the Washington Post is all about this particular you know, exhibit and Grover and 57 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.879 all of the interesting things he'd done. He'd been a tenured professor of anthropology 58 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:40.319 at Washington State University. He was a scientist. Oh and he was the 59 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:46.240 country's pre eminent academic expert on bigfoot. And you're real I'm reading this and 60 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:50.879 I'm like, who the hell is this guy? What a weirdo. Can 61 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.000 you be a man of science and a man at bigfoot? Oh? Also 62 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.920 same last name, born in Salt Lake City, which is where my dad's 63 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.279 family was from. And so I find out through my grandfather that, yes, 64 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:08.639 Grover had been his cousin. He would show up to the family picnics 65 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:13.639 with calipers and measure people's heads. My grandfather, who was several years older, 66 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.639 seven or eight I think, actually stole a hand from the University of 67 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:23.439 Utah's medical lab and gave it to Grover because he knew he was so fascinated 68 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:28.759 by all the all things that anthropological and anatomy. I don't think that's legal, 69 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:32.519 but you know, my grandfather is now dead as well, so it 70 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:34.839 goes. But yeah, I found out about this connection, and for a 71 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:39.079 long time it was really just like cocktail party conversation. Hey, I have 72 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.920 a relative in the Smithsonian and b he was a bigfoot expert. Ha ha 73 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.439 ha isn't that hilarious? And then I decided to do a podcast about it 74 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:55.399 after I found out that Grover's fourth wife, number four, lived about thirty 75 00:05:55.399 --> 00:06:00.480 miles south of me here in Colorado, in Parker. Actually, I don't 76 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:03.360 even know what it's thirty It's like thirty minutes. So I was like, 77 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:06.920 Okay, I'm going to go interview her and then we're going to see where 78 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:13.480 this goes. So the impetus for it all was connecting those dots that Grover 79 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:16.959 was kined to you and he had an ex wife or you know, his 80 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:21.759 fourth wife, you said, near you. If she hadn't lived near you, 81 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:27.120 do you think you would have gone that that route? I probably would 82 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.439 have eventually, but I think that really it was one of those like signs 83 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.279 from the universe kind of things. Not that I believe in that kind of 84 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:39.000 stuff necessarily, but you know, I'd been sort of sitting on this story 85 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.680 for a while and was My husband was like, you should write a book, 86 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:45.160 and I was like, I can't write a book. That's there's too 87 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.879 many words in books, and I'm used to doing audio. But I kept 88 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:53.319 seeing bigfoot stuff everywhere, and like, you know, we moved to Colorado 89 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.560 and there's a big Foot museum like not that far from us, up in 90 00:06:56.600 --> 00:07:02.800 Bailey, Colorado. There's just bigfoot stuff everywhere. And then the more I 91 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:04.800 was just thinking about it more and more and more, and then I was 92 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:06.839 like, Okay, I'm going to sort of look up and see if there's 93 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:11.319 anyone who knew Grover and try and reach out to them. And I probably 94 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:14.680 would have reached out to Diane Horton, that was his fourth wife, even 95 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:16.600 if she'd lived far away. But then finding out that she was in Parker, 96 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:19.199 I was like, Okay, you kind of have to do this. 97 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:23.759 Yeah, yeah, it kind of writes itself after a while, right, 98 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.639 yeah, Right, So you talked to her and did that kind of kick 99 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:32.000 off what you thought you could put together with this. It was that that 100 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.800 was the deciding factor that you then packed up and decided to see what all 101 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.920 the fuss was about. Yeah. So after talking to her, you know, 102 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:45.720 she would talk about Grover's fascination with this. She talked about also just 103 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.319 how well loved he was as a teacher at Washington State, and like how 104 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.680 well regarded he was. We talked a little bit about the other kind of 105 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.759 work he did, which was really you know, he was kind of on 106 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:00.439 the forefront of a lot of the discussions about human evolution and migration patterns in 107 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:05.480 North America, and he'd waded into a lot of discussions about sort of evolution 108 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.319 versus creationism. There'd been a big debate at Washington State in like the nineteen 109 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.600 sixties, and he'd been the face of that in terms of the evolution side, 110 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.639 so he was a well known guy in anthropological circles. And then a 111 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.160 lot of people feel he shot himself on the foot because he basically wouldn't give 112 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.000 up the bigfoot stuff, and everyone was like, what the f are you 113 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.680 doing? Man, Like what does this have to do with science? But 114 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.920 he really was trying to approach it from a very scientific perspective. And I 115 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.759 found that fascinating, Like how this guy who was so science oriented was also 116 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.879 out there looking for a creature that most of us consider mythological or you know, 117 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.440 at least something in the very distant past that is not around anymore. 118 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:48.159 So that kind of fascinated me. And then it's like, why do people 119 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.600 believe? Why are we so fascinated with this idea of bigfoot? Why is 120 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.000 there? Why are there bigfoot bumper stickers and chocolate and socks and tires and 121 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:58.879 you know, music festivals, and you know, you can I can just 122 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.879 go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, 123 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.440 because once I started thinking about this bigfoot idea, there was just like bigfoot 124 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:09.759 stuff everywhere, So it's clearly captured our imaginations, even for people who were 125 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.200 like, yeah, it's not real, but wouldn't that be cool if it 126 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.159 was. Yeah, it seems like it's kind of the closest thing to magic 127 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:22.399 that we have. You know, I think a lot of people cling onto 128 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.440 that hope just to have something else to believe in, you know, besides 129 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.080 just like, oh, reality is harsh. You know, it's not that 130 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.600 reality is necessarily boring, because you could go into all kinds of stuff and 131 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:41.600 you know, really be fascinated by the minutest details. But a topic like 132 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:48.759 this, it really is easy for people to latch onto and then to want 133 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.519 to know more about and to understand. I think, yeah, for sure, 134 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.840 And I think for a lot of people, it's like this idea that 135 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:58.399 the world is still wild enough, that it's still unexplored enough that we haven't 136 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:03.799 like paved, impruned and you know, plasticized every single thing out there, 137 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.960 and something like this could exist, Like that seems magical. You know what 138 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.519 you think about the explorers of old like going off into the jungle and not 139 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:16.159 necessarily knowing what they were going to find out there, Like there's an element 140 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.159 of still wanting that to be the way the world is. Yeah, and 141 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.240 I can see the appeal to that. It's it's fascinating and fun and adventurous 142 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.000 and a little dangerous. You know, there's all kinds of stuff you can 143 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.519 get out of it. But there are several audio clips that you include in 144 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:39.440 the series on what Grover said, Like literally from Grover, he first of 145 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.039 all, has an amazing voice. I know, right, it's so good. 146 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:48.159 It's like perfect for radio, it really is. And he's kind of 147 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.639 like the Carl Sagan of Bigfoot stuff. And I thought that, you know, 148 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.879 from the get go, and then later in the series it actually comes 149 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.679 up someone mentions Carl Sagan in there, and uh, I think it was 150 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.720 Matt Moneymaker actually when you interviewed him. I think, oh, yeah, 151 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:11.240 vaguely. It's really funny that you are because I have I have not listened 152 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.399 to it since I put it out. I was so sick of it, 153 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.440 and so now people ask me about like little moments and I'm like, I 154 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.200 don't remember. That's well, this was also twenty eighteen, twenty seven. 155 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.440 Yeah, I was twenty eighteen when it came out, so it's been a 156 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:28.360 while, but yeah, he did. He did mention Carl Sagan. I 157 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.519 remember that. Now, that's funny. Yeah, I think it's great because 158 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.879 Grover was also an educator, and you know, he you could hear in 159 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:41.279 his voice that he loved teaching and that he loved learning. And that's that's 160 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.480 kind of the approach I like to take with this as well. You know, 161 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:48.039 I'm in it to learn, and whatever I find out, I'm happy 162 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:52.440 to teach. And I don't know, man, it's it's hard when you 163 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:58.840 come up against some difficulties with people who maybe don't share that same view. 164 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.039 And we can into that later, but I wanted to ask you, how 165 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:09.240 did your professional background prepare you and help you for the journey that you took 166 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.000 with this. Yeah. So I came from a journalism background, which was 167 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:16.519 great. I'd worked at NPR starting in two thousand and six, and I 168 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:22.399 worked with them on and off for well almost I basically for ten years, 169 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.279 both in DC and in Los Angeles a little bit and in Los Angeles, 170 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.399 and essentially like that gave me a lot of background in terms of like how 171 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.200 to conduct an interview, how to do the technical side of things in terms 172 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.279 of recording, how to think about story structure, and then a lot of 173 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.240 it. I just kind of winged it, like I podcasts had been around 174 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.279 for a while, but really it was like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen that 175 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.440 they were really kind of hitting like a big stride with those longer narrative formats, 176 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:58.320 and I would listen to Cereal. I listened to Finding Missing Richard Simmons, 177 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.720 which was Dan Toberski's podcast about Richard Simmons and he like sort of vanished 178 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.320 out of the public eye and there was all these questions about where he'd gone. 179 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.799 And it's a great podcast if you haven't heard, he's fantastic. Dan 180 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.679 to Bersky's one of my favorite hosts of all time. But I listened to 181 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.720 that and I was like, I could do this, Like I know how 182 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.960 to do all of these things, and that was really helpful to hat to 183 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.080 be to realize that I knew the technical side of things. I knew a 184 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.799 lot of how to frame this stuff diving into it, and also like an 185 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.639 outline was very important, and coming from journalism and knowing that you need to 186 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:35.879 sort of have a structure set in place before you get started so you're not 187 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:41.399 just sort of wandering in the wilderness without any signposts. That was really helpful 188 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.759 too. So those were kind of the big things that sort of set me 189 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.799 up, I feel like, for you know, success in actually making the 190 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.960 thing. And you have a ton of interviews in some pretty big names that 191 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:58.320 folks would recognize. To Jeff Meldrum, like I said, met money Maker, 192 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.600 he's known with BFR and stuff like that. You even get Michael Schermer 193 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.440 in there, which I was very impressed to hear him speaking of why people 194 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:07.960 think the way they think, you know, why people want to believe or 195 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.320 whatever. I've got that book back here on the shelf. Yeah, I've 196 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.559 got it down here somewhere too. Yeah, what was the price? Did 197 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.120 you call these guys up? Did you have any inside track on getting those 198 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.360 guys like those are some pretty big names that I don't know if they do 199 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:28.279 a lot of interviews. Yeah. So the first thing that I you know, 200 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:33.679 Grover's wife Diane was instrumental in like sort of making helping me make those 201 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:39.600 first connections with people who were inside the big Foot community and knowing where to 202 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:41.799 go and who to talk to and where to turn because you know, like 203 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.639 you said, I came into this with like zero zero knowledge. I'd seen 204 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.559 Harry and the Henderson's and that was pretty much the extent of my knowledge or 205 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.519 real really interest in Bigfoot. And so Diane was like, you should talk 206 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.080 to this guy. You should talk to this guy, and she was like, 207 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:01.120 feel free to use my name. These people will be very happy to 208 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.559 talk to you. It also helped that I had the same last name. 209 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.039 I think that that really did open a lot of doors. And I was 210 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.080 very transparent with people up front. I was just saying, look, this 211 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.120 is the background for this. I'm interested in learning more about this world and 212 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.639 the people who are in it and what it is fascinates us. I am 213 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.759 not looking to poke fun at people. I am not looking to laugh at 214 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.600 beliefs. And I think that sort of transparency about what I was trying to 215 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.240 accomplish also helped. But with someone like Michael Shermer, I mean a lot 216 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.720 of these were just sort of like I'd send an email and he wrote back. 217 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.639 So I think some of these people are more willing to talk than it 218 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.679 might seem like at the outset, And it could be that they've gotten more 219 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:48.200 cautious as time has gone forward, and they've perhaps become bigger names or there's 220 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.279 been this sort of explosion of podcasts and everybody wants to talk to them. 221 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.240 They might be a little bit pickier, but I think too. Also saying 222 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.279 you know, I come from an NPR background probably helped add some gravitas to 223 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.799 the question I was asking. Yeah, I get that because I once emailed 224 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.279 to ask someone if they'd come on for an interview. This was back when 225 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:14.799 the show was my show was a little a little younger, and we were 226 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.559 I had a co host. We came from an improv background, so we'd 227 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:22.720 add a lot of humor to the episodes. And you don't want to be 228 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:27.000 that transparent when asking for interviews when you're like, hey, we you know, 229 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.360 we approached the stuff with a little bit of humor. We don't take 230 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.120 it that seriously, this and that, and then just got the nastiest response 231 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.240 back, being like, why would I want to come on a comedy show? 232 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.559 And it's just like okay, oh no, that that helps the old 233 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:47.080 self esteem. Yeah. Was that from someone who was like a bigfoot person 234 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:51.120 who didn't want you making fun of it or it was the same realm. 235 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:56.320 It wasn't specifically a bigfoot person, but someone who deals in that stuff. 236 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:03.360 And writes books, and they're not a very good person outside of that anyway. 237 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.680 So I've heard okay, so it all made sense, But it was 238 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.799 an experience. So I you know, lesson learned. You learn as you 239 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.359 go. But speaking of learning, how you have taken the process that you 240 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.519 come from and know and applied it to this. The first series of wild 241 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:27.440 Thing brings listeners with you on your quest to basically embed yourself in the culture 242 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:34.680 and learn about all the aspects of sasquatchery. It's nine episodes full of interviews 243 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.759 and audio clips and field recordings. I'm curious how long did it take you 244 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.039 to put it all together? It took a while. I was also working 245 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.839 a couple of part time jobs at the same time, which you know, 246 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.000 as you well know, there's not a lot of money in podcasting, so 247 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.079 I was doing other things to sort of supplement income, and also was kind 248 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.400 of at the whims of other people's schedules. So in terms of doing the 249 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.960 field recordings, like when could I fly out? When was going to be 250 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:06.079 convenient for them? You know, when were events happening, Like there was 251 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:10.960 an event called beach Foot which is and yeah, have you been no, 252 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:12.799 no, it sounds super exclusive. I do not think they would want me 253 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:17.480 there. Oh they might, you never know. They were a lot of 254 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:21.440 fun and they were really, really nice, and so I think I don't 255 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.039 remember how I made the connection with them. That was one of those it's 256 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.119 like Diane connected me to someone, someone else connected me to someone else. 257 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.200 Like I kept like laddering people on top of each other and like using those 258 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.279 connections as much as I could, because I think that really helps. But 259 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.720 you know, you're at the mercy of schedules of like that and in putting 260 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.720 things together. And also this is the first time I had done something this 261 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.000 big, and it took a while, Like I think the first episode probably 262 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.359 went through five or six iterations before I settled on a structure I really liked. 263 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.400 And then some of the episodes I could write really quickly. The second 264 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.559 episode, which was all about evolution, that was that was a breeze like 265 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.240 there was that was very straightforward to write. There was another episode that was 266 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.920 about sort of the taboo surrounding this topic for a lot of the people who 267 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.200 are fascinated by it, they don't like to talk about it. That one 268 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.119 went through a lot of iterations as well, and sort of figuring out how 269 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.200 to how to present this information in a way that was not going to be 270 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.440 just like look at these people like that, which is not what I wanted 271 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.799 to do, Like everybody was very nice and thoughtful, and that's not what 272 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.799 I was I was out to do. So all told, it took me 273 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.720 about a year and a half from when I first started working on it until 274 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.759 like the episodes were going out the door, and I also finished it in 275 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:41.640 advance of launch, and then spent about a month doing press, like trying 276 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.400 to get interest in it before I launched, so that it wouldn't just sort 277 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:51.200 of like into the you know, the abyss of meat of like all the 278 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.839 media out Yeah, throwing a water bottle in the ocean. Yeah, exactly. 279 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.920 We're going to take a quick break for ad space and be back in 280 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:06.039 just a couple of minutes. Well, you have three seasons of the show 281 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:10.680 out now, and the other seasons focus on different topics, namely UFOs and 282 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:15.119 season two and nuclear power in season three? When did you get the notion 283 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:22.119 to assemble your notes into book form? Yeah, So what happened with that 284 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:29.960 is season two was out and I had started to get lots of letters mostly 285 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.119 from parents who were listening with their kids, which I had not anticipated with 286 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.960 season one. Actually, this would have happened before season two came out, 287 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.039 because what happened was I started getting those letters and I was like, oh, 288 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.880 crap, I have to take the swearing out for subsequent seasons because I 289 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.880 had not anticipated the kids would be listening to this, and I swore a 290 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.279 little bit, not a ton, but a little bit in the first one, 291 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.799 and so then you end up with a you know, an explicit rating, 292 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.440 and that makes it harder for people to find it. So in any 293 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:02.359 case, letters from parents who are listening with their kids, letters from teachers 294 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.279 who were using elements of the podcast in their classroom to talk about evolution, 295 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:11.920 evidence, scientific method things like that, and I realized, oh, there's 296 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:18.440 a way to approach a different audience with this. And my agent suggested middle 297 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.160 grade nonfiction because she said there's a dearth of material in there that kids find 298 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:27.839 interesting. It's often very dry, it's not something that they get very excited 299 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.759 about, but teachers and parents are looking for that kind of material. So 300 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:38.400 yeah, A did a whole pitch to a bunch of different publishers and they 301 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:44.119 went for it, and they wanted a three book deal, so yeah, 302 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:48.279 that's kind of how that happened. Yeah, the book is gorgeous, the 303 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:56.680 art and even the covers a blend of matt and shiny, glossy stuff and 304 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.839 a little puffy I love it. Yeah. Raphael Obray is the guy who 305 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.799 did the illustrations, and he nailed it. Like I had sort of a 306 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.119 different idea in my head of what it would look like, sort of more 307 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:10.440 dreamy water colory, but when they sent me his stuff, I was like, 308 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:12.599 Yeah, that's great. I love it. Are you sticking with him 309 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:18.519 for later? He's doing book two and I believe they're talking to him about 310 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.480 book three right now, So awesome, that's great. Yeah. So when 311 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:30.599 you're putting season one together, what kind of difficulties did you encounter some of 312 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.400 the things I encountered or things that you encountered where it's like people didn't necessarily 313 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:37.000 want to talk to me, and this was more on the science side of 314 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:44.279 things. Yeah. I had reached out to the Smithsonian initially to talk to 315 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.720 them about the human evolution stuff because I thought it made sense to go there 316 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.359 because Grower's stuff was there and they wanted nothing to do with it. So 317 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.480 that was a little I was a little surprised, but not wholly surprised. 318 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.559 And then when Ian Tattersall, who is the curator over at the American Museum 319 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.480 of National Natural History in New York, when he said, yeah, you 320 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.880 know, I don't believe in Bigfoot, but i'll happily talk to you, 321 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.559 I was like, Okay, well that's a pretty sweet score, Like, 322 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.839 yeah, he's no joke. So, you know, ultimately, a lot 323 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:15.960 of these things ended up working out. I think some of the other problems 324 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.200 I ran into were you know, there were times where I was kind of 325 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:23.799 struggling with what the structure was going to look like and how to cover this 326 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:30.359 material fairly. And then I made a decision pretty early on to not do 327 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.279 anything that would be considered woo. So you know, telepathic Bigfoot, Bigfoot 328 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:41.160 as an alien, Bigfoot lives in my basement, Yeah, multi dimensional Bigfoot. 329 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.240 I just was like, like, we haven't even proven any of that 330 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.119 exists in the normal world, Like, why are we just attributing that to 331 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:55.359 Bigfoot? So I stuck with what Grovers, Yeah, well he just teleported, 332 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.680 that's why you can't see him. Yeah, duh. Yeah, if 333 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.839 we would just unlock more than ten percent of our brains. We could, 334 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:06.039 We totally could. You're just not using your brain, right, man. 335 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.599 So I did run into a little bit of pushback where we'd be talking to 336 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:12.000 people and they would sort of go in that direction. I'd be like, 337 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.720 thank you, and they'd be like, what, you know, you have 338 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:19.400 to keep your mind open and embrace all possibilities. And I'm like, well, 339 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.079 if you can bring me some really solid evidence that, you know, 340 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:29.359 the nineteenth dimension does exist, then we can talk about Bigfoot existing in it. 341 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.200 But yeah, let's let's start at the let's begin at the beginning. 342 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.960 Other issues I ran into. You went out in the field a lot. 343 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.000 Yeah, the field was that was a lot of fun. Yeah, and 344 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.599 I was surprised. Usually something will go south on those kinds of trips, 345 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440 like really south. And the biggest problem was it just poured rain at Willow 346 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:55.039 Creek when I went for the fiftieth anniversary of the Patterson Gimblin film, Like 347 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:56.720 it was just dumping rain the whole weekend. But in some ways that actually 348 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.480 ended up being helpful because it kept people indoors and in one place, and 349 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.079 so it was easier to find them and talk to them. Granted it kind 350 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.279 of prevented you from going out to the site of where the supposed film was 351 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.680 shot, but I didn't really need to be out there for that, So 352 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.599 yeah, I got kind of lucky. Like I feel like a lot of 353 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.000 things fell into place with this, like the opportunity to go see those nests, 354 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.160 which was, you know, great, Like they didn't have to take 355 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.640 me out there. They'd certainly denied other media the opportunity to go do it. 356 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.519 But I think by that point I had talked to enough people. This 357 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.839 was a late enough in the reporting process, and I'd talked to enough the 358 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.960 people who were adjacent to that project or involved in it that they trusted me 359 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:38.720 and they were willing to let me come out there and see it, provided 360 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.440 I didn't take any photos, which I didn't. And then people were like, 361 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.240 well, why didn't you take any photos? And I was like, 362 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.400 they didn't ask me to, but if you go online you can find them. 363 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.920 So how many times through the process, because there's several field recordings that 364 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.359 you have and you went out multiple times, how many how many times did 365 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.720 you do you think you went out there to good stuff? Because you went't 366 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.960 like there were sometimes where you went for you saw the nests. There were 367 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.440 sometimes you went and did like the whoops and then tree knocks and things like 368 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.279 that. Is that the same trip or yeah, some of them were the 369 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.400 same trip, And some of the times I would use material from one trip 370 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:21.160 in multiple episodes to sort of talk about different aspects of it. So there 371 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:26.400 was let's see went out to see the nests, And that was actually towards 372 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.319 the end of all the reporting. As I mentioned, beach Foot was the 373 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:33.559 first field recording event that I went to and I was like, what am 374 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.279 I doing here? Who were these people? I'm sure they were like, 375 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.200 who's this lady walking around with a microphone? And that was actually one of 376 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:41.799 those moments where you know, it was like, hello, my name is 377 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.359 you had the tag on and I said Laura Krantz and people were like, 378 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:49.839 oh, are you related to Grover? They all knew who Grover was, 379 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.920 Like one guy, one guy actually got down on his knees in front of 380 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.640 me and was like, you know, Grover is my God and like you 381 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.480 know that kind of thing. I was like, whoa, okay, And 382 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.279 that was sort of my first introduction to how much people really really loved Grover 383 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.359 and what he stood for and what he represented the represented to this community. 384 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.920 So there was beech Foot. Then I did the Bigfoot Expedition with Shane Courson 385 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:19.799 and Cindy Caddell, who were both involved with Bigot Field rear. Cindy was 386 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.440 with Bigfoot Field Researcher Organization and the Olympic Project, which are two of the 387 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:32.119 Bigfoot recon groups. She's the anthropologist. Yeah, she's one of the anthropologists. 388 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.240 Kathy Strain was the other one, and she's one I met at beach 389 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:38.839 Foot. And then I also went to Willow Creek for the fiftieth anniversary. 390 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:42.440 And I might actually be doing these in the wrong order. It might have 391 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:48.799 been beach Foot, Willow Creek, the camp out in Mount Hood Wilderness, 392 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.839 and then the nests. So I went out in the field at least four 393 00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.839 times. Oh, and then there was the trip to Bailey to the Sasquatch 394 00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.359 Outpost. And but I find going out in the field, hey, it's 395 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.200 a lot of fun. It's a lot more work because you're just having to 396 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.440 pay attention to a lot of stuff and it's a you know, it's like 397 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.680 three or four days of just recording everything you can and then you have to 398 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.519 come back and kind of sift through all that and figure out what you want 399 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.640 to use. But you get all this great ambient sound. It's an opportunity 400 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.240 to, like you said, take people on a journey with you if you 401 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.400 can create sort of a nice, you know, soundscape behind you when you're 402 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.799 talking about some of this stuff. So, yeah, the field recordings were 403 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:27.759 a lot of fun. I didn't get to do as much of that with 404 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.599 other ones, or at least the sound wasn't quite as rich with some of 405 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.279 the other ones. For lack of a better term. Was it very creepy 406 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:40.079 or scary at times or was there a lot of priming going on in your 407 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.119 head that maybe made it seem that way. So I will say the Mount 408 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.880 Hood one was a little bit on the creepy side, mainly because we got 409 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.319 all set up to camp and this was an area that Shane had brought us 410 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.440 to because he'd been camping there before and he'd had an experience. And so, 411 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.039 you know, the sun goes down, we sit by the fire and 412 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.119 he tells his story, which we deliberately set it up that way so he 413 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.480 would do it, you know, at the at the creepiest possible moment, 414 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.160 right and then he finishes telling the story and you're like, oh shit, 415 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.000 what was that? And then you know, my tents on the very edge 416 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.960 of the camp site, and I'm like, maybe I want to move more 417 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.160 towards the middle. Like and I'm not really a nervous camper, like I 418 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.119 enjoy camping. I've never been someone who's totally, you know, freaked out 419 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.680 about anything other really than bears of when you're like backpacking and wyoming grizzlies, 420 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:34.160 that's some scary shit, yea. But yeah, after hearing that story, 421 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.079 and then we went on this kind of night hike and like you're wandering around 422 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.880 and pitch black darkness. Well, we had headlamps on, but we would 423 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.079 turn them off from time to time just to get a sense of like how 424 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:48.039 oppressive the dark was. And yeah, I mean that that had a little 425 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.519 bit of an eerie quality to it for sure. Yeah, it sounds fun. 426 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:56.400 It was fun. I had a blast. If you ever get a 427 00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.119 chance to go on a big foot expedition with anyone, you should totally do 428 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.160 it. Did anything in particular or surprise you on this journey? Yeah, 429 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.200 that I became open more open minded about the idea of bigfoot. I think 430 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:08.240 that was the biggest one, because I went into it being like total hoax, 431 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.160 big joke, total myth, like there's nothing to it. And then, 432 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.960 you know, after listening to the stuff about evolution and hearing about other 433 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.240 species that had been alive at the same time as Homo sapiens, and thinking 434 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:26.160 about how difficult it is for you know, the fossil record to hold onto 435 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.079 evidence of everything, I was like, well, maybe there was something back 436 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:33.960 then. It's hard to know. And then there was also just people's stories 437 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:38.680 and the stories because I had been so particular and selecting, you know, 438 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.680 a path for this podcast in terms of steering clear of the wo I ended 439 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:47.359 up. I did end up talking to a lot of people who were fairly 440 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.599 scientific or had spent a lot of their time in the woods and were fish 441 00:30:51.640 --> 00:31:00.880 and wildlife people or anthropologists and had stories that you trusted them more, because 442 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:04.720 at least I trusted them more because they seemed so grounded in reality. And 443 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.039 then they would tell the story and they're like, I don't know what it 444 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:11.960 was. I know, I can't say it was bigfoot because that's not science. 445 00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.599 But this was the weirdest thing I have ever experienced, and I don't 446 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.799 know how else to describe it. And now those kinds of things, it's 447 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.519 like, well, something clearly happened to them, it's true to them. 448 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.480 Yeah, yeah, And I think that's what surprised me as I sort of 449 00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:26.839 came out of it. I still want, you know, I would want 450 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.440 scientific evidence. I want the body, I want the big piece of the 451 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.880 body, I want the DNA, I want all the things that science require. 452 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:38.119 But I'm open to the possibility that that might exist, whereas before I 453 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:44.359 was just like total joke. M. I kind of empathize with you on 454 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:51.279 that because shooting this documentary that I will hopefully be releasing this summer, we 455 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.079 went into it thinking, well, there's all these stories about a Sasquatch in 456 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:01.480 southern California in the desert of all places, and how is that possible? 457 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:07.119 Like that that sounds ridiculous. But we talked to biologists, we talked to 458 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:13.680 people who study the plant life out there and other species, and how many 459 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:15.839 forms of food you can find if you know where to look, where to 460 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.759 find the water, if you know you know where to look. Migration, 461 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:27.920 you know, up into the cooler elevations at the it's only thirty forty miles 462 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.640 away. You know, and and that's an easy trek for a big eight 463 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:37.920 foot tall thing to if theyd he's a snowbird. Absolutely half the time he's 464 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:45.279 in Texas, the other half he's in Aspen. So but we came out 465 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:49.599 of it being like, well, you know, it's not impossible. It's 466 00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.799 uh yeah, if you know what where to look, what you're doing. 467 00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:59.119 Yeah, it's it's possible to survive. But my question has always been, 468 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:04.759 and this is something that Michael Schermer mentioned in that episode with him in it. 469 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.720 He said the same thing I was thinking. You need a population to 470 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.799 survive, right, you need yep, couple hundred to make sure that it 471 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:22.319 can continue unless there's some like freak of nature where they survive for hundreds of 472 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:24.079 years at a time, like turtles or something, you know. But or 473 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:28.759 maybe they're like one of those jellyfish that like they get to a certain age 474 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.160 and they sort of like dissolve in on themselves and then they like reborn. 475 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:37.960 Yeah yeah, yeah, they're like a phoenix creature. Yeah. But again 476 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.240 that's one of those where it's like, well, that jellyfish is really the 477 00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:45.119 only example of that. I'd like to see something with bones, maybe that 478 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.319 does that yeah, or something observable at the very least three. Yeah, 479 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.079 And I think you know you're right, it's possible, But is it plausible? 480 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:55.039 And I think that becomes the big question. Yeah, the world is 481 00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.319 full of possibility, but what's the plausibility of it? Yeah, that's kind 482 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:01.720 of the thing that I always kept bringing me back. I like the idea 483 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:05.519 of bigfoot. I think that would be great if Bigfoot were out there. 484 00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:13.440 I am hard pressed to believe that that's the case. Yeah. And also 485 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:17.360 the photos. Let's talk about the photos. Everybody has a camera in their 486 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.039 pocket. There are untold numbers of trail cams and gain cams and security cams. 487 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:30.920 What do we have blob squatches? Yeah, bingo. This whole podcast 488 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:37.840 might not exist if it weren't for those those photos, very photos. So 489 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.480 I wanted to ask you, is there two pieces of advice that you could 490 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:46.599 give. One to the folks who are convinced Sasquatch exists, and then one 491 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:52.719 to those who are skeptical that open minded. My piece of advice to the 492 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.679 people who are convinced that Bigfoot exists is keep looking, but you're gonna have 493 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.599 to find if you want people to take you seriously, and you want people 494 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.199 to take seriously, you're going to actually have to find the kind of evidence 495 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:08.519 scientists and the scientific community are willing to accept. And there's not a conspiracy 496 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:13.559 to keep Bigfoot hidden or keep you down or anything like that. Like, 497 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.760 you haven't found the kind of evidence that will convince them, and you won't 498 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.559 convince them until you do. So that's that first piece of advice to the 499 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:27.760 people who are skeptical but open minded. I don't know if I have advice 500 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.840 for them. Necessarily, don't laugh at people, I think would be my 501 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.599 advice. You know. I think one of the things that I have been 502 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.679 concerned about with the bigfoot stuff is it feels a little bit like a gateway 503 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:45.880 drug into bigger conspiracy theories, and so, you know, that is a 504 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.000 problem. I think we kind of have to set that aside and maybe we 505 00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:52.679 talk about that later. But there's no need to laugh at people who have 506 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.760 a genuine question about the world and are interested in learning more, as long 507 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.360 as they are sort of staying within the bounds of reality. And so that's 508 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:05.199 sort of my general feeling, and I think that's why I really liked doing 509 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.159 this topic for kids. In some ways, it's because kids like have this 510 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:12.159 wild imagination and all these ideas, and there's an opportunity here to be like, 511 00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.679 let's harness that imagination, you know, think about it anyway you want 512 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.519 to, but then look at the sort of boundaries that you have to consider 513 00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:23.639 it in for it to be a real creature. And it's this lesson in 514 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.960 in the scientific method and in evidence and in learning to think critically about things 515 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.760 and not just accepting everything at face value. Yeah, a great, A 516 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.360 great endeavor, boy, something I wish that more people would put some time 517 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:46.880 into. And you interview several people who do bring up the point that anecdotes 518 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:52.559 are great, but it's not data, it's not empirical evidence. I mean, 519 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.000 there's a reason that I witness a testimony is often not being considered in 520 00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:02.320 court anymore because it's not reliable. So, yeah, you had a crazy 521 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.159 experience, I don't doubt that, But what are the facts on the ground. 522 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:12.000 What is the actual evidence of what happened to you? And you can't 523 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:17.719 say it's bigfoot unless it's bigfoot and you have proof that it's bigfoot. So 524 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:23.519 so I'm excited for book two about UFOs to come out. That's coming out 525 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:28.280 in October, is that right? Yeah? October third. It's called is 526 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.760 Anybody out There? Or is there Anybody out there? And it's about the 527 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:38.280 search for extraterrestrials from amiba's to aliens, So it's beyond UFOs even it's that's 528 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:40.920 part of it, but it's also like, you know what kind of life 529 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.119 might be out there? Zenobiology? Yeah, is there are there a little 530 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:50.639 tiny one cell the organisms living under the crust of Mars? Or are we 531 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.880 alone in the universe? You know that kind of thing. Nice. Well, 532 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.880 we'll have to get your back on here to discuss your experiences with that. 533 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:01.199 Excellent. She's the author of The Search for Sasquatch and host of wild 534 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:06.119 Thing podcast. Laura Krantz. Thank you for talking to us today. I'm 535 00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:08.039 blurry photos, Laura, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having 536 00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:15.519 me on. This has been fun. Thanks once again to Laura for speaking 537 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:20.079 with me. You can find her book and podcasts at Laura Krantz dot com 538 00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.400 and by searching for wild Thing on any podcatcher. Don't forget to check out 539 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:30.239 more paranormal topics taken not too seriously by searching for hysteria fifty one, find 540 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:35.280 a bunch of trivia by listening to Quiz Quiz, Bang Bang, and listen 541 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:40.599 to some short spooky stories narrated by me on Five Minute Frights. All of 542 00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.960 those are searchable on your podcatcher. Thank you for listening and for this episode 543 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:52.480 of Blurry Photos. I have been David mild thing Flora. Don't stop blur even