WEBVTT

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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the Randalchampars. It doesn't involve

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aliens at all. It was completely
silent. It comes right over our heads.

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It's so classic value. Sorcerer is
standing in the cleary. He turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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and said, We're not alone.
Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show.

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We're live every Wednesday at eight pm
Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter

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Radio Network. Please remember to visit
the website podcastufo dot com for past episodes,

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blogs, and forums. During the
show, feel free to participate live

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in our chat room, and don't
forget to like us on our very active

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Facebook page. Hello, and welcome
to the show. I'm Martin Willis your

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host, and tonight we have Cheryl
Costa coming up. We're going to be

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talking about early UFO, which is
always kind of interesting to me, being

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kind of a history oh I don't
want to say buff but kind of a

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history fan, and so I'm looking
forward to that. For that, we

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have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the
news, but I wanted to announce we

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have a winner for the T shirt
graphic contest. We had four different people

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enter, five different graphics and if
you look on our page, number two

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from Diane Cash is the hands down
winner beautiful graphic and she's the same one

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that made the banner for our website
PODCASTUFO dot com. I want to thank

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everyone for supporting the show, and
you can do that just by going on

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our website and all that information's right
there. And we have some exciting guests

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coming up. Just a little heads
up. We have Jan Harzan coming up

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December second. He is the executive
director of MUFAN. We also have someone

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I've been trying to get on the
show for a long time. I had

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some help, and that's James Fox. Finally, I've actually tried to get

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him on almost since day one.
He's going to be on the show on

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December sixteenth, and next week I
have Michael Lauk, who I used to

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do the news with. We always
have a lot of fun. He's my

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guest for the entire show. But
not of course, Alejandro will be here,

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right, Alejandro, Right, that's
good. I'm glad. How are

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you, Alejandro? I'm good?
So is this like do I get to

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start talking? I mind part of
the show. Okay, part of the

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show. Yeah, that was an
awkward segue, It really was, I

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do so awkward. Pretty well.
You know that I got to hang out

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with James Fox just a couple of
weeks ago because he came to the Travis

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Walton event and he I gave him
a ride, you know, a couple

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hours from there to the airport.
I've known him for a while and he

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is so fun and he's got so
many interesting stories. Yeah, really is

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great. Really excited to have him
on. And I had some help and

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someone that just really just wouldn't let
go and he finally said yes. Cool.

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So yeah, looking forward to that. So the girl, the lady

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who won for the art contest is
the same one. Op, that's big

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Ben. Do you hear big Ben? I do? Are you in London

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now? Actually it's a doorbell which
never works, and it works of course

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only when we're recording here. But
she's the one who did the banner for

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your website. Yes, because that
is so cool. Is that a particular

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sighting that it is depicting where there's
like this v shaped you know ufo there?

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No, I just told her I
just told her kind of an idea

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of what I liked, and you
know, she sent She's she surprised me

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and I said something, you know, early evening, twilight something, and

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she just sent me that graphic along
with another one. The other one I

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have on our Facebook page. But
this was that banner for the website.

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I thought was pretty awesome. It's
very awesome, super cool. Yeah,

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I love it. Yeah, she's
very talented, I'll say, yeah,

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very So we got some news,
do we We do got some news.

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So here's a couple pieces of news. The first one is a siting in

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El Salvador. It's a sphere shaped
UFO that this guy took pictures of and

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videotaped on October twenty nine to twenty
fourteen. It was five point thirty seven

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pm when he saw this object and
started taking some pictures and video. The

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reason why it's posted now is because
now it's been investigated and the director of

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investigations for move On, Chuck Reaver, closed the case as an unknown.

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Now at the pictures in the video, I guess they're all of the same

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sighting and the object looks very spherical. You don't hear that too often.

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You know other than the orbs.
That video was right up on our website.

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I did embed that as well,
and the show note links by the

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way. You can click on them
and they'll go to the full stories over

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at Openminds dot tv. Mm hmmm, so what else is happening? What

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else is mida? This is a
cool sighting. This one happened. There

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was no date. I don't think
on this one, but I'm pretty sure

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that this was this year. But
this is a guy who stopped at a

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dairy queen and they looked out of
their window on the way home and they

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saw this bright light and they didn't
know what it was. It got closer

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and they noticed it had these big
windows. At first they thought it was

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a jet, but then they thought, well, the windows are too big,

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and they were able to see people
inside, and this thing was huge,

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and they noticed it was not like
a jet. It was some kind

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of UFO with these creatures or something
inside. They don't describe what these beings

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look like inside, but they could
see people in there the way they drawn.

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They look sort of humanoid with a
head and a torso type of thing.

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And then the object quickly took off
in another direction. Yeah, that

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is really interesting. I wonder if
anyone has investigated that and gone into detail

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with what the creatures whatever they were, looked, like, Yeah, maybe

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we'll hear more about this one.
This one was recently posted or reported to

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move on, although it's still under
investigation. So Roger Marsha, director of

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communications from MUFON, wrote this story
and he says that this one's still under

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investigation. Yeah, you know these
sightings when now that's weird that it had

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big, you know, rectangular windows. I mean, that's just it's almost

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like an observation deck and you know, like which you know, does make

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me think, what is it They're
traveling back in time to look at some

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event that didn't happen or or you
know, or you know, if it

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is extraterrestrial. I never like to
say it is, but if it is,

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did it come out of a mothership
and then they're just floating around observing?

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You know, Well, that Betty
and Barney Hill case, you know,

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they said they saw this object with
windows and they saw the people inside.

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And there's been a few other cases. There's a Turkey video right and

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and although you know, I that
might be there's some research unfortunately that well

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for better where it seems to maybe
explain the Turkey video that it's actually a

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reflexion of the lens, the curvature
inside the lens, and they've been able

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to demonstrate similar effects that have happened
before with this sort of thing. So

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I'm still trying to to do more
work into that. But actually Frank Warren

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of UFO Chronicles has some stuff posted
on that. But some people feel that

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there's a window there with some creatures
that you could see and that there some

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people even feel that they're over a
body and in fact, and he's completely

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serious, and my boss feels that
that these things are eating so they're kind

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of enjoying sucking the juices out of
a human while they're looking out and the

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Turkish shoreline enjoying the beautiful view or
something. So well, you know,

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if that was some type of reflection. Now, I've looked at a lot

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of images stills from those videos and
me too, you know, Roger Lear

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actually did some filming too. But
it really they look just like heads,

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you know, I mean, it
would be to be a reflection. There's

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two heads and then there's one time
where there's one single well, I don't

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know, I don't think they I
don't think they look like heads to me.

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I mean they're round objects. There
are round kind of but you've got

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to remember these things if you took
the originals and you zoom in. There

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has been some like fiddling with the
pictures to try to determine what they are,

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but that doesn't necessarily accurately display what
they are. I mean, these

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methods that are used for that sort
of thing, and you know, there

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could be inside of this crevice any
kind of And what's unfortunate is that the

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lenses I keep saying unfortunately because it
is such a good case and I'm afraid

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that maybe they figured it out,
is that inside of the lenses, in

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the rings out hoold like the lenses
and stuff, there are notches and this

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notch looks like one of those up
So now that's they actually see a light

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though that they focused on. Yeah, but I mean that's the whole point,

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is that it's a single point of
light, a star or a planet

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that when they zoom in on it
with this lens, there's a reflection inside

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of the lens that causes this anomaly. But didn't there wasn't there multiple filming

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in different films. Just one camera, just one camera, even though it

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was several times correct, all one
camera. And that's why people at first

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thought, you know, maybe it
was a star or something, but that

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didn't pan out because it didn't look
like one. But maybe it is a

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reflection of that start because it was
the same time every day, and it

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was but it was up in the
air. That's what blows away the I

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think, blows away the theory that
this was the top of a shrew's liner

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or something. It doesn't fit the
shapes of a cruise line or anything like

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that. So that theory, even
though some people hold, you know,

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really subscribe to that one, doesn't
really fit. I don't think. But

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it's and no theory had fit up
until fairly recently when Frank Warren had sent

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me some information about how it looks
like, you know, very similar to

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these pictures of an inside the lens, reflection of the inside workings of the

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lens itself. Well, I'd like
to keep up on that. I'd like

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to find out if, yeah,
going back to humanoid type noted in crafts,

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there was some case other than you
know, there was a Father Gill

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case where they're standing on top of
the craft. There was another case that

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someone was describing one time where they
were in a car and this craft came

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over and they could see the beings
and the guy waved and they waved back,

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which is really another thing like you
know the Father Gill case. Yeah,

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I don't think I remember that case, or I don't know that I'm

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aware of that one. Yeah,
I'd like to look that one up.

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And it's something I read. You
know. It's just those type of cases

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are really fascinating to me because it
really gets you wondering if it's you know,

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if there's actually some type of being
in there. Well, one of

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the best humanoid cases and here's you
know, I told you I was going

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to give you a couple announcement or
an announcement. Yeah, and I actually

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have a couple of things, and
you said you didn't want to know what

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it was. But it has to
do with this boil that I've got I

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wanted to ask you about. That's
why I wanted to tash you off air.

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But since you wanted me to say
that, no, I'm kidding,

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absolutely no. One of the announcements
is that one of the best humanoids cases

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is the RUAI case. The aerial
school where these kids. We're going to

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have one of the witnesses. Oh, at the UFO Congress. I'm so

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excited about it. I've met her, she's come into the office. She's

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really shy. She actually did get
on the air for a couple of minutes

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when I was doing an interview with
her friend who came with her, Luigi

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Vendateelli, who's a UFO researcher in
Canada. So but they're going to come

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and she's going to come and talk. And what's greater, she has this

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artwork that she's been doing that is
inspired by the experience that she feels is

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even influenced by her experience. So
it's going to be super interesting. But

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here's the other big announcement. This
is a really big one that I'm announcing.

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In the works to working out the
announcement, and it's going to be

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announced the first time right here,
all right on your show. That is

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that we're going to have another one
of the first researchers or one of the

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greatest credible research of humanoid cases from
way back when. Really, Yeah,

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who do you think that might be? Oh my gosh, you're putting me

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on the spot. I'm going to
say, I don't want to guess wrong,

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so go ahead and tell me,
Oh, that's a cop out.

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It is Jacques Valet, Are you
kidding? Yeah. I think it's the

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first time he's ever really done a
UFO conference. He's definitely hasn't done anything

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like this for decades. He is
friends with Lee Spiegel and they met back

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in the seventies when Lee Spiegel organized
this UN event for Sir Eric Gary of

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oh Man, I can't remember the
country ran, oh Granada and oh sure.

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Eric Gary was into UFOs and he
was pushing to get the UN to

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investigate UFOs, and so Lee Spiegel
organized his presentation to the UN for him

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Lie Spiegel, who now works for
the Huffington Post, and so he brought

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all of these credible people, as
Jacques Valet being one of them. And

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so they've talked over the years,
and I've been trying to get I've gotten

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one interview with Jaques Vallet over his
great book Wonders in the Sky Wow,

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and really hard to really hard to
nail down and get ahold of trying to

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get hold of him for two years. Yeah, and I've asked him several

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times now that I've had the contact
if he would speak at the congress.

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He says, no, I just
don't do that sort of thing. And

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he's told me this for years,
even when I was with mouf On.

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We tried and he just says,
no, I don't do UFO conferences.

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Well, Lee Spiegel, just for
the hell of it, said what would

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you come to the UFO Congress if
I interviewed you on stage? And Jaques

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said, you know what, that's
something I would like to do. Oh

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my god. You know what if
if I was not planning on being there

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in Phoenix this February, I would
I would be there because of that alone.

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Yeah, I'll me too. I
mean, the Bob Blazaar thing was

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great. It was a lot of
fun. People were floored, they had

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a great time. So many people
have been telling me it was historical,

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and it did it. There was
a feeling of just, you know,

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ahe and this is like a one
off event. But for me, this

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is even bigger. Jacques Vallet,
I mean, I'm a huge Heinek fan.

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Jay Ellen Heinek, who was an
astronomer at Northwestern and consultant for the

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Air Force on UFOs and his protege
was Jacques Vallet, both of them being

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consultants for Close Encounters, Truffo's character
even being based off of Jacques Vallets,

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the French guy, and so I
mean and his books. I've always been

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a huge fan of Valets. I
was so floored when I got an interview.

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But now that I'm going to get
to meet him, this is going

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to be a treasured selfie. Well
that's great. Wow, I'm so excited

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about it. I'm excited too.
Actually, that's just great. Yeah,

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I mean, this is the ufologist's
uphologist, you know, Yeah, so

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this is going to be really cool. But yeah, he investigated a lot

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of humanoids and Jacques. What's great
about Jacques? And I think you agree.

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You just mentioned maybe they come from
the future or something like that.

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Jacques frustrates people because he's never said
for you know that he always says it's

218
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not necessarily extraterrestrial. There could be
other things. Now, when I interviewed

219
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him, he talked a lot about
that and how people get frustrated when he

220
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talks about that. But I asked, do you though believe that some of

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this could be extraterrestural? And he
said, yeah, he believes that some

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of it probably is, but that
there's probably many many other things happening that

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are just beyond our comprehension rights.
I totally agree with that. A lot

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of times, you know, I've
said kind of redundantly that, you know,

225
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maybe it's something that nobody's even thought
of yet, you know very well

226
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could be. Yeah, exactly,
and I think it most likely is,

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because that's what science typically is.
We have ideas about things should be this

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way or that way, and then
once we get there, send the probe

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or you know, put it under
the microscope. It's completely something we never

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even could have imagined it could have
been. Right now, we probably ought

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to get on with the news a
little bit. And I also have a

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story after your I know you have
one more I think to go, okay,

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and after that, I'd like to
talk about a story. Okay,

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great, I'm excited to hear it. Okay. This last one's a fun

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one because this is a Miami witness. This was actually an event that happened

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in nineteen ninety seven, and the
witness just wrote mouf on about it happened

237
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in December twenty fourth, when the
witness is twelve years old. She says

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that on Christmas eve, she was
sitting on top of her mom's car.

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This was in Miami, I think
I said that, But she was sitting

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up there with a friend, and
her friend just kind of got shocked and

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was looking in the sky and she
looked up and there was like this red

242
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light, and she looked at it
for a while and finally and saw that

243
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there was this big craft in the
air that this red light was attached to.

244
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And then this red light shut down
a beam. She says. It

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was only maybe twenty thirty feet long, and it was circular in shape.

246
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It was a dull, gray colored
saucer. She even said that she thinks

247
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that her friend, the guy,
could have stood up and possibly touched it.

248
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But it shined down a beam,
she says, and she was paralyzed,

249
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and she could look around, but
her and the guy were paralyzed.

250
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Once the beam turned off, it
slowly started to move away, and they

251
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both ran into their homes to call
their families out to look, And finally

252
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their families came out and were able
to see this red light taking off in

253
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the distance. Yeah, that's something
about the paralyzing thing that almost like leads

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into what you hear about a lot
of abduction accounts. You know, they

255
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they just are frozen, they can't
move. It could be something like that,

256
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you know. I mean, if
they you know, as it said

257
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many times, if they had the
technology to do what they do, you

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know, who knows what else they
can do? Mm hmm, yeah exactly,

259
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and zapping someone with a paralyzing beam
should be no problem at all.

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Yeah, who knows. I mean, it's a it's a really interesting account,

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but just I don't know everything.
You know, you hear stories like

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this and you read about them and
you just kind of put yourself in their

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shoes and just imagine the awe and
and the how incredible it would be to

264
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see this. It's kind of similar
because of the Travis Swalton thing. You

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know, I've been thinking a lot
about when he came back and he says

266
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he was laying on the road when
he saw this craft above him and then

267
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it and it took off, kind
of similar to this. It's just I

268
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.039
don't know, it's amazing that what
kind of experience that would be, and

269
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just so many people with these great
experiences right right now it's time for my

270
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:17.720
story, yay. So I had
to show recently with Kevin Randall a few

271
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weeks ago and someone, this gentleman
was searching the internet and came across the

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Kevin Randall and listened to the podcast, and then he wrote me and he

273
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said, basically that I heard Kevin
Randall say that there's no talk about Roswell

274
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before nineteen eighty. Basically he said, well, I have a different account

275
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of that because when he was back
in school in the nineteen sixties, I

276
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think it was nineteen sixty five or
so, one of his roommates that was

277
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in the service and went off to
do some training and he came back and

278
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he basically told the whole Roswell story, seeing images of the crowd, images

279
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of actually bodies and the whole thing. And so they were talking about it

280
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over some beers. He said,
no, them were drunk, but they

281
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talked about it over some beers back
in nineteen sixty five. And he is

282
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looking to get a hold of these
people. This guy's name is Frank Barnes.

283
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He's freely giving his name and he's
looking to see if he can reach

284
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the guy that actually was the first
hand witness to those photographs in the Air

285
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Force training. So, yeah,
that is so interesting because Kevin's right.

286
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Of course, then Kevin should know. And I'd like to make that point

287
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too, is that you know,
often people will say, oh, it

288
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was a crash at Raswell that started
the Air Force looking in TFOs or got

289
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.839
people into it. That's not true. People after it happened pretty much,

290
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.920
even you followed, just didn't.
Really. There's a couple obscure references here

291
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.640
and there actually that I've found over
the years, but for the most part,

292
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.480
people just didn't know about it until
really Stanton Friedman, you know,

293
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.319
made it popular again after finding Jesse
Marcellin doing those interviews and then him and

294
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:14.200
well he didn't get credit but for
his research along with Bill Moors and them

295
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.640
putting together together the book on Roswell. So yeah, this is a that's

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what makes the account that you're talking
about that much more significant because you know,

297
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.359
you really had to know something to
even know about it. Yeah,

298
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you know, that would be great
to actually talk to this guy if he

299
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ever does uncover the witness, you
know, to talk to them both.

300
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So I'm going to keep on that
and we'll see what happens with that whole

301
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.400
thing. Yeah, it would you
know, a lot of people even debunkers

302
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.279
or skeptics say, you know,
there was nothing ever said about it,

303
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:56.240
you know, and after it it
hit the what was the name of the

304
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.319
paper that came out in, which
is not a good paper, the grocery

305
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.960
store tableau, like the Inquirer.
Yeah, that's right. It came out

306
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.920
in the Inquirer back in nineteen eighty, you know, the interview. But

307
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:12.559
the Inquirer was a credible, actual
newspaper back when. Oh and then it

308
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.079
was bought by the former CIA guy
and then it went kind of in fact.

309
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:22.359
Yeah, I mean one of the
big UFO researchers was Bob Pratt because

310
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:29.640
he and he was a writer for
the National Inquirer. And you know when

311
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.279
you read his files, which move
On I think has reposted because they inherited

312
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.839
those because Bob Pratt was a move
On guy and they gave him all of

313
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:42.000
his files. But when you read
through some of that stuff, Bill Moore

314
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.400
later on, who became a dubious
character, you know, was trying to

315
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:52.880
pitch this MJ twelve story to him, and there were others that Richard Doti

316
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.480
tried to give him a fake UFO
story that he researched and he found was

317
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.480
faked. He even flew around to
where it happened and discovered it was vake.

318
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.039
And all of these things he wouldn't
print because he talked about he was

319
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.839
he was a credible journalist and if
he couldn't he reported the facts and he

320
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:12.720
couldn't verify something, or if he
found out it was a hoax, he

321
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:17.880
would not print it, not like
today where essentially they just kind of make

322
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:22.759
step up. Yeah, they'll print
things without even looking into him. Yeah,

323
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.799
yeah, Wow, that's amazing.
And I know Bill Moore, you

324
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.920
know, walked ran away from the
UFO field, and he was he was

325
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.759
kind of important in a lot of
ways. But you know, but you

326
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.680
said dubious, and that's pretty well
describes, you know, what he turned

327
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.279
out to be. And I just
wondered if anyone in the UFO field at

328
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.000
all ever speaks to him, or
will he not talk to anyone? Do

329
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.599
you know anything about that? He
won't. The latest I mean someone I

330
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:59.319
think he talks to occasionally is Great
Bishop. And Greg Bishop wrote a book

331
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:04.200
called Project Beta, which included some
interviews with Bill Moore, and that book

332
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.680
now is probably ten fifteen years old, but it was about this whole you

333
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:14.000
know, Richard Dodi a fair and
everything, but yeah, great big ship.

334
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.000
He does a show I think called
Radio Mysterio, but it's a good

335
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:23.920
book Project Beta, if you could
get it. And he was the only

336
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.359
one I know who has talked to
him in the past. So other than

337
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.839
him, I don't know of anyone
I know. He and Stanton Friedman had

338
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:41.119
a falling out and it was because
of some dishonest dealings that Bill Moore was

339
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.319
involved with that Stanton Friedman had to
say, I can't be attached to that.

340
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:51.160
What was the famous announcement made Chris
Lambright was sitting right in the audience

341
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:56.119
when he came out and basically admitted
to the entire I don't know if it

342
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.759
was a move on convention or what
it was, but he admitted to everybody

343
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:07.880
what was the what was He admitted
that he had been working with Richard Doty,

344
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:17.279
who was an OSI agent Office of
Special Investigations with Kirkland Air Force Base,

345
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.079
and he said that he was given
secret UFO info, or that he

346
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:27.480
was promised to be given secret UFO
info if he updated Doty on what the

347
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.279
UFO people were up to, and
he says he did. He knows Dotie

348
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:41.839
had spread disinformation, but at that
meeting he said he did not willingly spread

349
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:47.960
any disinformation. However, later he
admitted that he did and his you know,

350
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:51.759
his accounts have changed and fluctuated and
gone this way in that way,

351
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.720
but wearing the different things. But
so he's not necessarily that trustworthy. But

352
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.839
in that meeting he was kind of
trying to justify what he did, but

353
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.839
it fell on deaf ears and people
were screaming at him and they even had

354
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:10.799
to talk stop his talk. People
were storming out and they had to stop

355
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:15.160
the talk and tell remind everybody to
be civil before they started up again.

356
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:23.000
And yeah, so it was it
was a dark period for eufology, and

357
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:30.079
it's something that unfortunately youphologists have many
people who were involved just tried to forget.

358
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.680
And I can understand why they just
decided, well, I'm not dealing

359
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.599
with him, and I'm just going
to forget he exists. But you know,

360
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.039
under further examination, there was a
lot of important stuff that can't be

361
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.160
forgotten because there were a lot of
hoaxes and disinformation that were spread during that

362
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.680
period of time, and of course
it's important to try to ferret out what

363
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:53.200
was real and what wasn't and that's
why I have like a video online and

364
00:28:53.240 --> 00:29:00.000
I've written about this all as well
as Chris Lambert. He and I don't

365
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.680
necessarily did agree on all of this, but Chris is a great resource because,

366
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:10.000
like you said, he was there
and he has some really interesting insight

367
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.680
into that whole period of time.
Right right, Well, we went a

368
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:19.160
little long today, that's fine,
So I want to thank you very much.

369
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.279
It was a lot of fun,
and yeah, thanks for having me

370
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.319
on again. It was great.
And come see Jacques Vallet at the UFO

371
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.480
Congress. I'm definitely gonna be there, all right, Alejandro. So everyone

372
00:29:30.519 --> 00:30:22.480
hanging there for this quick music break. We'll be right back with Cheryl Costa.

373
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.440
Cheryl Costa, Hello there, welcome
to the show. This is Martin

374
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:33.240
Willis. Hi. Hi there.
So Cheryl. We met in Phoenix last

375
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:38.839
year at the UFO Congress and it
was a pleasure meeting you and I sat

376
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:42.839
in on party you talk. Someone
distracted me. I was taken away.

377
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.079
I didn't get to listen to your
whole talk, but I'm I hear with

378
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.799
some background noise, I just moved
away from it. Okay, good,

379
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.000
all right. I'm kind of a
I'm not a history buff I shouldn't say

380
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:02.599
that. I'm a fan of history, and you were talking about early UFO

381
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.680
sidings. That fascinates me. But
before we get into any of that,

382
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:11.319
can you tell the listening audience your
background basically and what started you down the

383
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.359
path of the UFO field and writing
about it. Well. I was always

384
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:21.440
sort of a UFO bystander. I
had my first sighting when I was about

385
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.079
twelve years old to spake around sixty
five or so, and we were coming

386
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.240
down the family was out on a
Sunday afternoon. We were coming down the

387
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.319
country road off the side of a
hill, beautiful late August afternoon, blue

388
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.720
sky is not a cloud anywhere,
and out there in the western sky,

389
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.400
it's four o'clock in the afternoon.
Out there in the western sky was a

390
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.559
great, big silver ball and it
just hung there for twenty minutes. And

391
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:52.839
then when it did depart, it
had it departed with lickety split wow.

392
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.359
So I know it was We all
knew it wasn't a balloon. After we

393
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:00.960
had watched it. My mother I
was very tender about it, and sat

394
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:07.839
down and explained to me something about
UFOs. Apparently she was a little bit

395
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:12.720
read on it as much as she
could be, probably in the nineteen sixty

396
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:15.720
five time frame, and that was
it. That was my introduction. And

397
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.440
as I was going through high school, I found a good book at the

398
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.839
library. I'd bring it home and
we'd share it, you know, So

399
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:24.799
there was this kind of a bonding
thing with my mom. Huh, wow,

400
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.960
that's kind of interesting. You don't
hear that too often, No,

401
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:35.079
no, you don't. Now the
show, the live show producer just asked

402
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.279
if you could get into the phone
a little more. He says, the

403
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.039
volume's pretty low. Sure, sure, I can do that. And I

404
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:44.559
also can speak up probably probably he
needs that a little bit. Yeah,

405
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:51.480
And so you're also a playwright,
and yeah, I've been writing plays since

406
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:57.079
since the well, I guess.
My first formal play that got actually debuted

407
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.119
was in nineteen ninety four, written
about thirty Since that time, I've had

408
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:07.079
about three quarters of them produced,
some of them internationally. And the thing

409
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:12.440
with play rights is, unless unless
you're some guy like Neil Simon, nobody

410
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.799
knows your name. Yep, that's
right, that's right. Well, you

411
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:22.319
know it through any field, it
takes really, you know, for someone

412
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.880
to hit the top of about anything, you know, to become the rock

413
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:29.640
star of that field. It's you
know, it's like Sammy going upstream.

414
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:35.599
There's just a few make it.
Yes, that's very true. Yeah,

415
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.440
the UFO field is about the same
way. You know, there's there's a

416
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.599
handful of people who seem to be
invited to all the conventions, and there's

417
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.319
a whole bunch of other people like
myself who were out there doing some serious,

418
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.480
serious work and we don't get invited. Well you did. You did

419
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.839
speak at the in Phoenix, and
I thought you were great, So I'm

420
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:04.759
surprised I didn't lead to more engagements
for you. It led to a lot

421
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:10.880
of radio interviews, both radio and
podcast type things of that type of thing.

422
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.920
I mean, Richard Doldan had me
on his show, and a lot

423
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.480
of people have had me on probably
good twelve or fifteen people have had me

424
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:28.239
on in one capacity or another over
the past eight months, actually almost ten

425
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.159
months at this point. But it
hasn't everybody saying, oh, we'll call

426
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:37.239
you up in twenty seventeen, you
know, so it's kind of strange.

427
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:43.880
There is an effort a foot here
in upstate New York. We're trying to

428
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.360
get enough state in New York convention
going now. It may start out small

429
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.920
and maybe like a one day convention
kind of thing, but we're trying,

430
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.239
and there's a handful of us out
there trying to pull it together, and

431
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.880
there's folks down from the New York
City area who are interested in making it

432
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.000
happen, and a bunch of us
have been talking and saying, maybe we

433
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:07.079
can get together a four or five
speaker one day event at some point.

434
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.159
Now, hang on to that thought
because I want to say something. But

435
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:15.039
I also want to remind people that
anyone can call in if you'd like that

436
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.360
six oh three nine six seven four
three to zero, or you can jump

437
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:23.639
in the chat room att podcastufo dot
com real easy sign up. So you

438
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:31.039
have you mentioned Richard Dolan now and
you are in are you actually in Syracuse?

439
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:36.880
I'm in. I'm in Syracuse.
So Richard is out Rochester Way,

440
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.719
So he's about ninety minutes for me
right now. Is he proactive actually in

441
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.320
trying to get a group going to
I haven't reached out to Richard yet.

442
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.880
That would be a good he would
be a good household name more or less.

443
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.719
You know. Well, yeah,
there's actually quite a few people here

444
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:01.519
in New York State who have had
good contact with you know, either publishing

445
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:05.880
in UFOs things like this. And
there's probably a good half dozen people.

446
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:13.239
Yeah, Linda Zimmerman based in the
Hudson Valley. Pete Robbins writes extensively about

447
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.239
it. He's just about an hour
from me, down down towards Watkins.

448
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:19.280
Oh. I thought he was in
Pennsylvania, so he's not that. He's

449
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:25.760
actually in New York, down down
nearby Seneca Lake. And there's a handful

450
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:29.079
of other people I can't pull off
the top of my head right now.

451
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:34.440
There's another new guy, a new
guy by the name of Tom Conway,

452
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:39.039
and he is up in the Troy, New York area, by by Albany,

453
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:45.559
and he's been doing similar research to
me, and in fact we kind

454
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:50.199
of put our heads together, and
quite accidentally on Facebook one day, I

455
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:57.159
was showing a chart of the percentage
of UFO sightings based at the county level

456
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.800
in New York State. It's a
very rare kind of presentation. I had

457
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:05.920
to go in and pull county data
both for muff On and I had to

458
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:12.159
create it using the National UFO Reporting
Database because they don't track county data,

459
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:15.159
so I had to literally go look
up thirty five hundred sightings to and put

460
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:20.039
it in a spreadsheet what county they
were in. Took two months. Took

461
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:23.880
two months, and every evening for
a couple of hours for two months,

462
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:29.599
That's what I did. But what
we figured out I had a pattern of

463
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:34.960
where all the hotspots in New York
State were okay, and there's about nine

464
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.760
major hotspots. And what was interesting
was I was showing a couple of the

465
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:45.000
slides on the UFO updates on Facebook
and Tom came back to me and shot

466
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:49.679
me a shot me a picture of
a map he had on the wall.

467
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.800
He had a New York State map
on the wall, roadmap, and he

468
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.519
had pins in it, and he'd
gone through the same databases and was putting

469
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:00.599
pins in, but he was doing
it like he had pink pins for fireballs.

470
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.760
On another wall, he had another
roadmap up there and he was doing

471
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.760
triangles, you know. And he
was able to show the distribution of different

472
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:15.320
types of major types of UFOs and
their patterns in New York State. And

473
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.039
it's quite a lively presentation that he's
got. So I'm hoping to get him,

474
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.360
get him to do something at whatever
kind of a little convention or conference

475
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:27.199
we've put together. Boy, I
wish I could be that organized. That

476
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:30.320
sounds really great. Now I saw
one of your articles. You write for

477
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:35.119
the Syracuse New Times. Is it? I write for two news services.

478
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.280
I write for Syracuse News Times,
been with them two and a half years.

479
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:44.519
The columns called New York Skies and
it's a weekly blog and it's one

480
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:49.079
of the hit blogs. It's a
rocket. We rock and roll that newspaper

481
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:53.039
and we've got international readership. The
editors just do cartwheels about the fact that

482
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:58.840
we have international readership from a little
weekly in upstate New York. And then

483
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.440
I also write for the Slant news
service out of New York City. Uh

484
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:07.440
and I the science editor there,
has me write UFO articles for him as

485
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:13.719
well. Well. Now, I
noticed in the one of your articles was

486
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.840
on a triangle and it was a
great, great article, great sighting,

487
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:22.679
And yeah, I was afraid you
were going to say that. No,

488
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.559
it was about the guy that said
he could if there was a pole on

489
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:28.920
his barn, he could, uh, he could reach it from there or

490
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.719
something like that. And it was
twelve foot by twelve foot by twelve foot.

491
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:35.599
He said, that's that's the approximate
size. It flew real low.

492
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.920
Yeah. It was the one that
was like literally floating over his barn.

493
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:45.519
Yeah yeah. So triangles always interest
me, and it just seems like there's

494
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.559
more and more of them. And
when you were doing this or when you

495
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:55.079
were looking at this chart, did
you see that there there was a like

496
00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:00.559
a peak in triangles? No?
No, not as much as you might

497
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:08.280
think. I didn't. I didn't
do a real series breakdown on on triangles.

498
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:13.880
But maybe a little later in the
program. I can give you some

499
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.360
good numbers here. I only need
to pull up a spreadsheet and I can

500
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:21.880
give you some real serious numbers.
I just don't have it right this moment.

501
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:30.239
Actually I found it. Orange fireballs, Uh huh, that's the orbs.

502
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.320
They seem to be very predominant.
Yeap, isn't that something we had?

503
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:38.519
Terry ray On he he and a
few other people are organizing some type

504
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:45.199
of orange orb and move on and
move on in some type of research.

505
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:50.960
I'm not sure if you're familiar with
that or not, but they are going

506
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.400
to explore all these orange orbs that
people are seeing, and I know that

507
00:40:54.199 --> 00:41:00.239
some of them can certainly be Chinese
lanterns, but they're are some there's just

508
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:06.559
too many sightings, so that do
too many unusual things that it just would

509
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:12.960
couldn't be explained by the Chinese lanterns. Well, that's the joke my spouse

510
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:21.119
has with this whole thing. Every
time somebody talks about the the Chinese lantern

511
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:22.920
it was one hundred and fifty six
hundred miles an hour, you know,

512
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:28.280
you know, that's that's the difference. I have a lot of people write

513
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:32.039
me and honestly tell me, oh, it's just Chinese lanterns. They have

514
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:38.159
absolutely no idea what people are really
reporting. And these things are flying in

515
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:45.199
formations. They're flying in formations and
darting around like a bunch of like a

516
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:51.519
bunch of fireflies. They're flying in
formations where they'll they'll they'll make themselves look

517
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.599
like an airplane. One of the
best ones I ever saw was it was

518
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:00.360
they actually it was about ten of
them, and they line themselves up and

519
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:01.440
if you looked at the if you
just glanced up in the sky, you

520
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:05.280
would have thought it was just a
jetliner up there, But it was actually

521
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.199
ten of them, like in a
cross tea kind of formation, with a

522
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.199
couple of them in the back make
it look cut the back wings. Wow,

523
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.039
it was. It was very stealth, but very cute the way they

524
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.840
were making it look. It was. It was quite interesting. So this

525
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.960
is actually a sighting that you had, No, no, no, I

526
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.840
saw a picture of it. A
picture of it. Now. One of

527
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:30.000
the things I remembered you talking about
is a two hundred year old UFO account.

528
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.960
Yes, all right, can we
talk about that, sure? Ken?

529
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.079
Okay, So you know, over
a fourteen year window, Okay,

530
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:45.719
fourteen year window, we had three
hundred and seventy eight triangle sightings. Oh,

531
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.360
you're looking at this data right now. I just pulled up the pivot

532
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:54.400
table. Uh uh yeah, we
had let me give a ita again,

533
00:42:54.559 --> 00:43:00.000
three hundred and seventy eight triangle sightings. This is out of thirty a grand

534
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:06.719
total of thirty nine hundred and thirty
one sightings over period over let us say,

535
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:10.719
over the last one hundred years.
Okay, and now please understand,

536
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:15.239
before about nineteen sixty, there's not
a whole heck of a lot in the

537
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:22.519
database. But from there on up
to about the late eighties early nineties,

538
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:28.199
we started seeing a lot of the
sightings in the database only because people either

539
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.639
remembered it and put it in the
modern database, or it was stuff that

540
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.400
was carried over from back from the
time before the Internet, when people faxed

541
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.960
these things in did about voicemail recordings
and things like that. That's how people

542
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.440
used to report these things. After
we got into the mid nineties, people

543
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:51.639
started using things like BBS's both on
board services, and then as we towards

544
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:55.079
the late nineties, we got onto
the Internet, and from about ninety nine

545
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.480
on we start seeing some serious solid
reporting of UFI of sightings. That's important

546
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:04.199
to keep in mind. Now I
was going to tell you the other one.

547
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:08.320
They're the big one here, circular
shaped UFOs. We're going to call

548
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:14.480
them, like the just circular shape. Some of these saw a circular shape

549
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:21.599
that's in the four hundred range.
Diamond shapes are almost non existent. People

550
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.760
seeing the flying discs, the classic
flying saucer two hundred and eighty eight of

551
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:30.599
them. Fireballs on the other hand, about three hundred and eleven. So

552
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:34.800
this is this is probably over the
last twenty years, is the strength of

553
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:42.280
this database. Well, the fireballs, do you mean as in a meteor?

554
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.039
No? No, no, no, no no no. They are

555
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:52.239
typically depicted like a glowing ball,
and they have a kind of a they

556
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:59.000
have kind of a fire quality.
I saw one actually last summer. I

557
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:06.039
had gone to a a conference down
in Philadelphia and we were coming we were

558
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:12.719
coming back up I eighty one,
just north of Scranton, and it looked

559
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.280
almost like a bumblebee in the distance
coming down the valley. It was kind

560
00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.079
of darting back and forth, and
it was still daily. It was maybe

561
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:22.880
about a half an hour four sunset. And the guy driving the car said,

562
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.559
is that an orb? And and
I looked down the road and I

563
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:29.559
saw this thing. It was probably
at about one thousand, maybe two thousand

564
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:35.599
feet off the ground, and as
we literally drove under it, I looked

565
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:45.559
up at it. Imagine a circular
ball of ira descence that has kind of

566
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.880
a I'm going to say, you
know, like if you saw in the

567
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:52.280
movies. Sometimes the things have kind
of an era descence, and then there's

568
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.679
kind of like a maybe a steamy
quality around it kind of makes it almost

569
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.239
look like it's maybe on fire or
steaming or something. It had that quality

570
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:06.320
to it, and it was bright
orange. Wow. Yeah, daylight sightings

571
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.920
are really interesting. And one of
the things that I was thinking of when

572
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:15.119
you were talking about all these different
ways of reporting is, can you imagine

573
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.800
what the small percentage of people that
actually go through all the trouble of reporting?

574
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.960
You know, it's probably very low
standing Friedman. When we were at

575
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:30.840
the International UFO Conference down in Phoenix
back in February, at one point he

576
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.639
was on a panel and they raised
that point. They said, you know,

577
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.880
what is the rate of people who
actually do pick up and are going

578
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:45.880
to the computer or tele you know, make a formal report? And they

579
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:50.199
figured it's like one in ten.
I wouldn't doubt it, because you know

580
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.639
this the point of my show comes
up quite a bit when I'm talking to

581
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:57.679
someone. When I feel comfortable enough, I'll say, well, you know,

582
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.639
I do kind of well sort of
an essay trek show on UFO,

583
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:06.559
so I'll admit it. And it's
kind of funny because I've had so many

584
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:10.480
people talk about their sightings that are
just you know, people you would never

585
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:15.639
imagine, and the question always come
up, comes up did you report it?

586
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.760
And they say no. You know, I would say that of all

587
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.079
the people that I've talked to,
I don't think there's one person that said

588
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.599
they reported it. And that's got
to be twenty or thirty different people in

589
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:30.800
general conversation. I put up a
chart a couple of weeks ago, and

590
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.840
I put it up on Facebook where
I listed the top ten states for UFO

591
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.960
sightings, ok, and the top
ten and when I put it up,

592
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:47.440
and I did it in a little
bar chart so you can see, you

593
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:51.880
know who really were the heavy hitters
for it. Now, this was strictly

594
00:47:51.960 --> 00:48:00.760
based on National UFO Reporting Centered data
because it's easily it's easily downloadable and you

595
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:05.519
can put it into a spreadsheeting or
into a database and crunch it very nicely.

596
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:10.199
It's a little harder to get the
Moufon's data. But what I have

597
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:15.119
found when I have gone off and
actually got mouf On data safe for a

598
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:22.000
sane period of time, I find
that this lesson about three percent duplication in

599
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.960
sightings probably actually gone more around one
to two percent duplication and sighting. When

600
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:31.800
you combine both databases, the numbers
about double. So I've got a place

601
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:37.559
where there's one hundred sightings on say
National UFOL Reporting Center. Fact throw the

602
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:40.679
Mouffon numbers in there. Maybe there's
another seventy for that same period of time.

603
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.639
So the numbers almost double. So
I if I tell you that New

604
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:53.679
York State had forty six hundred and
seventy five sightings over a fourteen year window,

605
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:59.800
it was because but that was National
UFO Reporting Center data. They probably

606
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:07.719
closer to eight thousand sightings with combined
data from both databases, right right,

607
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.119
and then and then you throw that
other thing on top one in ten report

608
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.960
of UFO sighting. You do the
math, it gets pretty scary. It

609
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:20.679
does get scary. I told one
of the things. I told one of

610
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:22.480
the editors at the newspaper one day. He said, well, how many

611
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.000
sightings do we really have in New
York State? I said, five percent

612
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:31.280
of the world sightings? And he
both fell off his chair. And when

613
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:35.519
he wrote an editorial last year,
in fact, it was last one he

614
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.199
did with the paper, and he
just before he retired, and in fact

615
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:44.440
it was the last one of last
year, and he quite literally said,

616
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:46.639
you know, the most popular column
we've got here at the paper is not

617
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:52.239
in print. It's on the internet, and it's about UFOs. And oh,

618
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.559
by the way, before you say, why is there a UFO column

619
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:58.920
in the Syracuse New Times, he
says, because there's a lot of sightings

620
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.320
in New York State, and then
he started quoting some of my numbers,

621
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:07.039
you know, and it got a
rather interesting response from the reading public,

622
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.119
so to speak. A lot of
people are going, why isn't somebody talking

623
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:14.400
about this? And that was one
of my arguments and how I got into

624
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:20.199
writing a column because nobody was reporting
this stuff. And I've had people write

625
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:22.719
me and say, well, how
come you're reporting a fourteen year old setting

626
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.159
because nobody wrote about it? Oh
uh huh, No, the subject is

627
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:32.679
very popular, it really is.
And have you ever looked into I want

628
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:39.199
to say, is it the Hudson
What was that the lower Hudson sightings or

629
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:45.679
whatever, the one that kept happening, I mean, the one kept happening

630
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:50.719
down around the any point of the
reactor. I'm going to say black triangles.

631
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:52.920
There was some type of sighting that
was seen. This is going way

632
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.519
back though, I'm talking, you
know, twenty twenty some odd years.

633
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.920
It was like a parkway in New
York that people kept seeing, the Patanic

634
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:07.920
Parkway. Well, that particular location
in New York is one of the hots

635
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:15.159
in Westchester County, and Westchester County
is a hotspot. In fact, if

636
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:17.719
you give me twenty seconds, I'll
pull up one of my slides and I'll

637
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:22.559
tell you exactly how many sightings they've
got. Actually, what I can actually

638
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.840
do for you is I can actually
tell you how where the hot spots are

639
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:30.320
in New York. If that's something
not many people know is I haven't published

640
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:34.519
this data yet. Wow, yeah, hotspots, Your audience is going to

641
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:37.440
get the first crack at this.
Oh good. Hot spots are always intriguing

642
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:44.880
to me, and it just makes
me wonder why why they are hotspots.

643
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:50.239
Well, when I did a chart, I broke my study down. This

644
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:53.920
study has not been presented yet.
Okay, when I broke I went and

645
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:59.840
did a In fact, this came
out of the national It came out of

646
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:07.800
the the International UFO Congress meeting that
we all went to there in February this

647
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:14.519
year. There was a professor there
from a California university, and after he

648
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:19.000
saw my presentation, he said,
well, I'm doing some studyings down in

649
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:28.719
the Hudson Valley of some caves that
are not natural, they were made by

650
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:34.039
somebody and they're estimated to be close
to twelve thousand years old. Wow.

651
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:38.159
And they have gone out and surveyed
these things with GPS's and they can quite

652
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:44.760
literally tell you the zip code of
every one of these caves. And he

653
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:49.519
asked me if I could give him
a map of the hotspots of New York

654
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:51.880
State, and I said, you
know, it doesn't exist, but I'll

655
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:57.599
make it for you. So the
next four months I worked on breaking all

656
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:00.880
that data down to the county level. He's like the only person I've shared

657
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:07.079
the entire list of what the county
sighting counts are. But that's how that

658
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:10.760
came. That's how the study came
to be. And what was funny about

659
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:15.280
it was everybody was saying to me, well, you know, how come

660
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:20.920
that hotspots there? Is there a
nuclear reactor or is there a military base

661
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:25.320
or something like this, And those
questions started really really coming in. Everybody

662
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:32.599
tried to take a shot at what
was there. And I took one first

663
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:37.400
thing. I took all the counties
and broke them down by the ten economic

664
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:43.280
regions of upstate New York. Of
New York State, typically about five to

665
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:50.880
eight counties per economic region, there's
sixty two counties, and within each economic

666
00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:54.000
region, there was one state that
hovered about them all. And so if

667
00:53:54.360 --> 00:54:00.880
five counties of the six in particular
economic region had sightings over fourteen years that

668
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.920
average no more than fifteen or twenty
over the fourteen years. There was one

669
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:10.400
county and there would have two hundred
or one hundred and fifty or five hundred

670
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:14.599
or something like that. Yeah,
that pretty much spells it out right.

671
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:16.320
So there was a spike. So
I went in my editor one day and

672
00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:23.000
I laid all ten slides out and
let him look at them. He started

673
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.320
asking all the same questions. Was
there a nuclear reactor, there is there

674
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:31.000
pollution there? Is it just the
population center? What is it? And

675
00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:36.360
he told me check everything. I
spent the next three months check We checked

676
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:45.800
lay lines, we checked geological faults, we checked natural resources and minerable minerals.

677
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.039
There's onently four nuclear reactors in New
York State, and two of them

678
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:52.599
are right about forty miles north of
me, and two of them are down

679
00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:54.719
on the Hudson Valley. That's it. Yeah, with the Hudson Valley,

680
00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:00.280
the Hudson River Valley. UFO sighting
is what I was thinking of. H

681
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:06.559
Well, the thing is there a
hotspot down there. There's a place down

682
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:08.519
there called I don't know if you've
ever heard of. It's called pine Bush.

683
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:15.400
Yeah, they claimed to be the
UFO capital of New York. Right,

684
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:19.800
they're not. Nine other counties in
New York. Sit they have more

685
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.119
sightings than they do now. But
didn't they at one time? Wasn't something

686
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:28.280
going on at one time that it
was even people were lining up? Uh?

687
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:32.639
Someone that helps out with the show
on our Facebook was telling me a

688
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:37.679
story about actually parking your car and
waiting, you know, people all out

689
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:43.679
on their lawn chairs waiting. Am
I I'm pretty sure that was pine Bush.

690
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:45.760
It might have been. In fact, the thing is one of the

691
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:50.239
points with pine Bush. And this
is where I went nine rounds with them

692
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:52.480
about this, because they got very
upset when I published an article said that

693
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:59.199
they weren't this capital. Okay,
all right, there's the point. Did

694
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:01.679
they report it in the database?
Yes, there were there were reports.

695
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:05.519
But I told the one guy I
said, like, he says, five

696
00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:07.360
thousand people saw it. I said, yeah, but there was one sighting

697
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:13.639
and five thousand people saw it.
It was just one sighting. Okay,

698
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:17.119
Just because five thousand people saw it
doesn't give you five thousand accounts, you

699
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:22.280
know. So that was where the
issue is. Yeah, and they had

700
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:25.400
they had Boy, I'll tell you, those guys under in Nonsin Valley have

701
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:31.800
had some extremely visible sightings over the
years, some amazing things. There's there

702
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:38.719
was a couple down by the US
Military Academy at West Point, and I

703
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:43.159
can't put my fingers on those right
now, but there was a couple amazing

704
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.960
ones down there. But again,
trying to find good write ups about it

705
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:51.360
and everything. So it's difficult.
Now, what part of New York State

706
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:54.239
I've got that chart up, I
can tell you where all the hotspots are.

707
00:56:54.599 --> 00:57:00.960
Oh good, Okay, go ahead
to lead the way. Where do

708
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:01.639
you want to go? Well,
no, see, I don't have him

709
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:05.400
up in New York up in front
of me. So well, let me

710
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.079
take it this way. If you
go out to the western part of New

711
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:15.639
York State, Niagara Falls, that
area Erie County, New York State is

712
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:22.360
essentially Buffalo, New York. Okay, And if all the other sightings in

713
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:28.800
the state, we're averaging around fifty
or a fourteen year period or in that

714
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:34.239
general area, they had three hundred
and five. Wow. And it's sometimes

715
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.559
referred to as the Eerie Lake effect
that they have a lot of sightings up

716
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.360
around Erie Lake. So what about
New York City you think of the population

717
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.079
and don't be down here. You
stay in upstate in the area for a

718
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:47.280
minute. Okay, I'm gonna get
I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get to

719
00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:51.119
New York. But let me give
you one of the mysteries here. New

720
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:55.079
York State City's easy because they got
a big population. But amazingly stuff.

721
00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:59.920
Everybody says New York City is tops, and they they are, and they

722
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:04.400
aren't. Okay, if you've work
the numbers back against the size of the

723
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:09.079
population, there are other counties in
New York State by population that has had

724
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:15.000
more sightings than they do per person. Okay, okay, now let's go

725
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:19.199
to Rochester, New York. Up
there right there on Lake Ontario. A

726
00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:23.559
similar phenomenon that we saw with Erie
County. They have like this, two

727
00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:28.679
hundred and eighty two sightings over fourteen
years, and all the other all the

728
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:35.960
other eight counties in that district average
maybe about twenty over the twenty for the

729
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.880
twenty year for the fourteen year period. I've had several New York State unithologists

730
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:45.480
look at that chart and say,
my god, maybe there's a non Lake

731
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:52.119
Ontario effect that we never knew about. And so that's something to be considered.

732
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:55.840
But you want to know about New
York City. Okay, well,

733
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:59.119
no, I don't have to jump. I don't have to jump there because

734
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.840
I'm remember there was sightings out in
Long Island too. So Long Island,

735
00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:08.800
well, actually Long Island is the
is the heavy hitter it is. Yeah,

736
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:12.519
let me give you. Let me
give you. The Hudson Valley and

737
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.920
Capital District, New York State's capital
is Albany, New York are way up

738
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:22.199
on the Hudson, about the middle
of the state. Okay, they've got

739
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:24.360
a huge number for fourteen years,
one hundred and seventy three, and the

740
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:30.360
rest of the counties are down there
at about thirty thirty per county. If

741
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:36.760
you go down the Hudson Valley Westchester
County where a lot of the UFO sidings

742
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:40.840
were not Westchester County. If you're
getting down there where Whitley Streever had,

743
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.320
you know, communion and all that
kind of thing, you're down in that

744
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:49.800
general area in Westchester County. They
had something in the ballpark of two hundred

745
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.199
and eleven for the fourteen year period, which is a lot. Orange County

746
00:59:53.199 --> 01:00:00.360
where Pine Bush is logged one hundred
and fifty eight so I finally hold up

747
01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:04.320
a county map and I'd like to
go over that with you, but we're

748
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:07.119
at the top of the aar and
we take a quick music break. Hang

749
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:35.960
in everyone, we'll be right back. All right, we're back and we're

750
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:42.199
talking live to Cheryl Costa, and
anyone can jump in the chat room or

751
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.239
you can actually call in at six
h three nine sixty seven four oh three.

752
01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:49.559
Oh. Just let you know,
Cheryl, we have a lot of

753
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.079
listeners, but not too many people
call in. Most people will go,

754
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:55.880
you know, in the chat room
and you know, pose a few questions.

755
01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.800
We do have one up there for
you, but I do want to

756
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.800
finish this conversation in the different counties. So now that I have my county

757
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:09.400
map, yep. So you said
Long Island right off the bat, you

758
01:01:09.400 --> 01:01:14.000
said that's a heavy hitter. Yes, let me let me get on to

759
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:22.480
that chart. Long Island has two
counties, Nassau and Suffolk, Okay.

760
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:27.320
In the fourteen year period we were
sampling nineteen ninety nine to twenty fourteen.

761
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:32.360
Actually it's a fifteen year window.
Nasau, which is closer to New York

762
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:37.800
City, had two hundred and eighty
six sightings. This is combined data,

763
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:45.960
most national UFO and MUFAN data combined
data, and Suffolk County had five hundred

764
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:51.000
and forty one. Wow, that
is big. That is huge. It's

765
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.920
the biggest in the state. Now, when you were going through all this

766
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:59.840
data, did you see anything that
made any sense in any type of way,

767
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:05.599
like where a body of water was, say the ocean or you mentioned

768
01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:12.360
the lakes. Did you see any
counties that had similar things going on that

769
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:17.280
you could connect the dots and see
why there were so many sightings hotspots?

770
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:22.960
No, nope, not at all. I pulled my hair out for three

771
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:28.199
months. I had other people look
at it. I shared PDF charts with

772
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:31.599
some of the other uphiologists. Everybody
was pulling their hair out. Nothing,

773
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:37.440
nothing worked. Then I got a
hold of Ben Moss. I met him

774
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:42.199
at the He's a movefon guy.
People see him on hangar one. He's

775
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:49.920
the chief move on investigator for State
of Virginia. And I rode the shuttle

776
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.719
bus in from the airport to go
to the International Foundation of the International UFO

777
01:02:53.800 --> 01:03:00.199
Congress conference and him and I got
to be We shared a drink or two,

778
01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:04.519
and I called him up and I
said, hey, Ben, I

779
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:07.519
got a problem here, you know, sending down a chart. You looked

780
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:09.400
at it, and I told them
all the different things we looked at nothing

781
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:14.800
nothing, nothing lined up, he
said, asked me if I could find

782
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:23.199
a map of ancient tribal land.
Did a little research. Found something we

783
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:30.239
overload overlaid our sighting chart of you
know, you know, basically it looked

784
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:34.519
like a little big stars where they
were, where all the hotspots were,

785
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:42.159
and it lined up over top of
all of the ancient Native American territories.

786
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:49.440
Wow, so that is the only
thing we could correlate. Now that said,

787
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:53.480
I have to tell you what my
science librarian spouse has to say.

788
01:03:54.039 --> 01:04:03.920
Correlation does not necessarily mean causality.
But it was. That was the only

789
01:04:04.039 --> 01:04:10.440
thing that we found that correlated consistently. The only other thing that was maybe

790
01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:15.559
somewhat correlated was Yes, if you
looked at all the stars over top of

791
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:21.800
a blank manth in New York City
estate, it looked like it followed across

792
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:27.880
the across the Erie Canal from Buffalo
all the way to Albany and all the

793
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:31.719
way down Sutson On first clients,
that looked like it was following the population

794
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:40.119
centers, but not completely. There
were counties that were off by themselves,

795
01:04:40.519 --> 01:04:43.559
off the main track of things,
not on the New York State through way,

796
01:04:43.639 --> 01:04:47.960
not on the Erie Canal that had
heavy hitter numbers, and for that

797
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:54.079
matter, so was so was Long
Island. They had two of the highest

798
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:58.159
months of sightings and they weren't weren't
near one of these things. In fact,

799
01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:03.840
they've gotten actually relatively low population per
citing than any place in New York

800
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:08.880
State. I was kind of surprised. I was out in Long Island just

801
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:14.280
a few weeks ago and and drove
right out to the east. I believe

802
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:20.960
I do you happen to have the
live show on your computer? I'm getting

803
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:26.360
feedback? No, I don't,
Okay, I'm just hearing feedback. I

804
01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:30.280
don't know if it might maybe coming
through your phone, it might be bouncing

805
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:32.679
off my wall. I don't know. Yeah, I'll get to I'll get

806
01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:38.599
to buy some furniture real suck up
some of the bounce. Sorry about that,

807
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:44.280
listener, Okay, so you know
I lost my train of thought.

808
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:48.039
It's terrible. Uh, what we're
telling me about someplace you were traveling?

809
01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:54.239
Oh? Yeah, yeah, I
was out in Long Island East and went

810
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:59.000
to take the ferry north we have
a call coming in. Oh I just

811
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:03.000
missed the call. Sorry caller.
If you can hear me, please try

812
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:06.719
to call back. I just missed
your call. Sorry about that. Please

813
01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:14.199
try again again. Okay. So
I was traveling out to take the ferry

814
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:17.360
and I noticed there was there was
a lot of land. You know,

815
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:20.800
I always thought it was like heavily
populated, but it's not out toward the

816
01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:28.000
east, so it's it's pretty rural
out there. It really is, which

817
01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:32.079
really surprised me because it's not that
many hours away from New York City and

818
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:40.880
you just expect that people would populate
it. So go ahead. I'm just

819
01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.960
gonna say again, sorry, mister
caller, you can try again. Six

820
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:51.800
O three nine six seven. Here
it is, Hello there, caller.

821
01:06:53.199 --> 01:06:57.000
All right, It's Chris in Pennsylvania. And I just wanted to throw something

822
01:06:57.039 --> 01:07:01.920
out there. You guys were talking
about sighting in counties that didn't necessarily have

823
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:09.960
a high population, and I was
wondering if you took into consideration people who

824
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:14.960
live in the city, primarily who
have never been upstate where there's no light

825
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:18.159
pollution, maybe in awe of all
the stars that you can see in the

826
01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:24.800
sky, it's it's such a huge
contrast that that may I don't know,

827
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:30.079
that may cause some people to report
sightings they're just gfstars that never saw before.

828
01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:38.360
That's possible, that is possible.
But amazingly enough, New York City

829
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:45.039
averages, they average a lot of
sightings. In fact, on raw numbers

830
01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:48.880
they sum, it appears like they're
the number one place for sightings in New

831
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:55.880
York State. If you combine all
five boroughs of New York all five towns

832
01:07:55.960 --> 01:07:59.840
of New York City together, it
looks like a huge number. But if

833
01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:04.760
you break it down by county,
give example, New York County of New

834
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:10.320
York, of New York City actually
has less sightings than Albany, New York

835
01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:15.480
does. Wow, that's surprising,
you know, with all the light pollutions.

836
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:20.199
Yeah, that's what's interesting that they
have some rather bizarre sightings down there.

837
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:26.720
You know. It's almost as if
the the UFOs are coming there to

838
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:30.760
hang out, because there are bizarre
people there, you know. Whatever,

839
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:36.399
it's a kind of Unpolitan place.
As they say that, the people have

840
01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:43.920
reported something amazing sightings where people would
see a light come in from the ocean

841
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:45.279
and they thought it was an airplane
and then the next thing you know,

842
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:49.479
they saw it looked like it went
down Howard and went down into Central Park,

843
01:08:49.640 --> 01:08:53.600
things like that. You know,
well that's the other thing. You

844
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:57.439
know, there's a number of airports
right there, you know, right around

845
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:05.640
New York City. People maybe seeing
landing lights. That is you do hear

846
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:10.079
about that, the landing lights even
off of Long Island. I think I've

847
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:14.079
heard that. People can you know, they see the light coming in,

848
01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:18.960
really bright, bright coming in and
it's just patterns of landing. So I

849
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:25.000
imagine there is some portion of the
sightings that's that's just a guess. So

850
01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:30.359
well, actually there's a formula that
you can crank the numbers through this formula

851
01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:34.279
and breaks it down to like three
percent. Our hopes is five percent are

852
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:42.439
crazy people thirty percent or clouds birds? You know they've got this number.

853
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:49.800
But about all most uifoologists hold that
about twenty percent are there of the totally

854
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:57.840
unexplained and really really out there quality
and in the numbers we were working with

855
01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:02.520
with this chart, about forty six
hundred forty seven sightings over fourteen years or

856
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:09.520
fifteen years, about twenty percent of
that falls into that category, which is

857
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:15.359
when you think about it around coming
up about almost one thousand sightings over a

858
01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:19.960
fifteen year window. Are of the
unexplained variety? Is that it? Chris,

859
01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:23.199
You're all set? Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Thanks, all

860
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:26.600
right, thanks going, Chris.
Yeah, thanks for calling in. Okay,

861
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:32.039
all right, So the question we
had up on the message board for

862
01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:42.760
you, Cheryl was are you also
an experiencer? Have you had any abduction

863
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:49.880
accounts? That's what someone's asking on
the message board. That's really personal information

864
01:10:50.039 --> 01:10:57.560
to ask. Okay, so it's
something information if I was, or was

865
01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:02.039
if I'm not. I have had
the opportunity to sit with the experiencers,

866
01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:10.880
and I've heard some very very very
amazing accounts. But I gave them my

867
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:13.960
word I would not talk about it
and I would not write about it.

868
01:11:14.439 --> 01:11:17.079
It was the only it was the
only way I could make a condition that

869
01:11:17.119 --> 01:11:19.760
I could come in and sit in
with them. But I'll give you a

870
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:24.960
flavor or something with it. When
we were at the convention, they had

871
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.600
restriction the press couldn't come in,
But like I said, I made an

872
01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:30.760
arrangement with them that I would just
come in and observe, but I would

873
01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:34.640
not write about it. Oh okay, let my press pass away. I

874
01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:38.840
expected to go in and find maybe
fifteen, twenty, maybe fifty people in

875
01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:42.920
there. There was close to two
hundred people in There's that right. Wow.

876
01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:47.840
Now the person was asking that on
the message board, if you talk

877
01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:55.800
about yourself being an experiencer, that
was the question. Oh that I had

878
01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:59.680
talked about myself as an experiencer,
Yeah, that was the question. This

879
01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.439
is someone that that had met you
at one time and maybe misunderstood something I

880
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:08.520
don't know. Okay, okay,
let us say this. I have had.

881
01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:14.399
I have had a total of ten
UFO sightings in my life. Wow,

882
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:19.239
that's a lot. I have had
two of what I will call the

883
01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:27.520
verifiable kind and the issue. People
say, well, there's no such thing,

884
01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:30.960
and I'll say, well, I've
seen the real thing. I can't

885
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:32.920
get into it. I have no
proof, I have no photographs other than

886
01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:36.560
when I'm just what I just told
you. I've seen the real thing.

887
01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:42.000
So I can't tell you more than
that. Well, I feel I feel

888
01:12:42.079 --> 01:12:45.439
the same way you know my I
had a sighting in that I feel that

889
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:51.399
had to be, you know,
something not made here in this earth.

890
01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:57.880
So that's that's how I feel about
what I had. But let's change gears

891
01:12:57.880 --> 01:13:02.039
here and I want. While we're
on the experimental subject, I did interview

892
01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:12.239
two what I'm going to call retirement
age women here in my county of Onondaga

893
01:13:12.319 --> 01:13:18.720
County, and this past summer,
they had come back from the lake or

894
01:13:18.760 --> 01:13:23.960
something like that. They'd been there
for like about a week, and they

895
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:28.319
came home and they were bringing in
their stuff from the car and one of

896
01:13:28.359 --> 01:13:34.000
the two women went downstairs into her
cellar. As she was going down the

897
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:42.079
stairs, she let out a scream. The other woman had a mental flash

898
01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:50.159
of a short, bald man in
a blue jumpsuit in her mind when she

899
01:13:50.319 --> 01:13:53.840
ran over to see what was going
on with the other woman. The other

900
01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:59.039
woman was literally on the landing of
the stairs, scared, and it looked

901
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:02.880
like back flying around her. But
they weren't danced, but it looked like

902
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:08.680
dans. Wow. I think you
wrote an article on that, didn't you.

903
01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:11.680
Yes? I did, Yes,
I did. And when we were

904
01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:16.439
at the International UFO Congress last year, there was a guy there I don't

905
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:21.119
remember, mcchellan I think is his
name. He did a presentation about that

906
01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:29.560
phenomena where the grays sometimes project mental
images into and touch our archetypes in our

907
01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:33.159
brain and make us think we're seeing
owls, right, that type of think,

908
01:14:33.279 --> 01:14:39.199
Well, that's also our archetype.
Uh huh. I sat in with

909
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:45.039
this gentleman that does a whole talk
on owls and it was actually pretty fascinating

910
01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:50.640
and it's amazing. It's an amazing
conversation. Because I sat in on this

911
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:56.439
one presentation, it just blew my
fox off. Could be the same guy.

912
01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:59.840
This was up, This was up
in Maine. But the irony of

913
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:02.600
the whole thing is there was an
owl outside of my window the night before

914
01:15:03.159 --> 01:15:09.079
first time, and it was hooting. It kept me awake. It was

915
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:12.920
just ironic. This guy, this
guy Mitchellan did uh. He was given

916
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:15.399
to talk about how the archetypes work
and all that sort of thing. And

917
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:19.520
what was interesting was he cut out. Uh. He said that this is

918
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:27.880
He told the story of this one
woman who was running down a path to

919
01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:30.720
to see where this bright ufo thing
went. And then she was getting down

920
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:35.880
the path, her first saw she
saw a gray. She saw a little

921
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:42.239
gray thend in there, and there
was this impression in her mind that the

922
01:15:42.279 --> 01:15:46.119
gray was going ow ow owl.
Suddenly what she thought she saw was this

923
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:53.079
four foot owl sitting there on the
path. So he had a current bird

924
01:15:53.079 --> 01:15:57.079
cutout of what a four foot looking
four foot owl looked like, and he

925
01:15:57.119 --> 01:15:59.880
had us up there on stage,
and you know, he says a segment

926
01:16:00.039 --> 01:16:03.079
scared a hell out of me,
you know. Ah, yeah, Okay,

927
01:16:03.159 --> 01:16:06.479
So it is Mike McClellan. Yes, Yes, that's the guy.

928
01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:10.479
Yep. Yeah. Someone in the
message board just brought up his name.

929
01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:15.560
That's yeah. I listened to his
talk. It was really quite amazing,

930
01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:21.239
really made you think so excellent.
So I wanted to go back to the

931
01:16:21.319 --> 01:16:28.840
question I asked you in the last
hour. Was you talk or have talked

932
01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:32.359
about early sightings? And that's that's
what I'd like to talk about, historical

933
01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:36.720
sightings that were maybe up to two
hundred years old. Yeah, yeah,

934
01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:42.520
I'd love to talk about that.
Yeah. How did you research this and

935
01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:47.560
what did you find? Well,
initially I was crawling through this is long

936
01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:55.000
before I thought about writing a column, okay, And it started briefly.

937
01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:59.800
Okay, let me go back a
step here. In twenty twelve, I

938
01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:05.279
was reading I think was a mere
USA Today or CNN dot com or something

939
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:10.680
like that, and I saw this
little sidebar story that said that, oh

940
01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:15.439
UFO reports have been on the decline
and maybe they were all just an urban

941
01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:20.359
legend. Anyway, and this is
in twenty twelve. I'm going, wait

942
01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:25.039
a minute, that doesn't sound right
now again, Remember I'm not really the

943
01:17:25.159 --> 01:17:29.960
serious ufoificiano. I've been following it
most of my life, but I wasn't

944
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:34.960
exactly somebody out there advocating. So
I went out to the mouf on database

945
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:40.359
and I started crawling around, and
I started playing with some numbers, and

946
01:17:40.760 --> 01:17:44.319
when I was at the convention,
I showed a chart and it showed this

947
01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:53.680
barge heart of drastically increasing sightings as
time got closer, from say nineteen fifties

948
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.680
right up to now. And I
put that slight up and my comment to

949
01:17:57.720 --> 01:18:04.520
the audience is what memo didn't the
UFO get? We were going from almost

950
01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:10.920
nothing to hundreds and hundreds of them, you know. So this is what

951
01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:15.520
got me going. This got me
going around to newspaper editors saying, we

952
01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:18.439
ought to write a column about this. It would be a hot topic,

953
01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:24.079
it would go viral for your paper. And I got laughed out of about

954
01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:29.159
twelve or thirteen offices until I met
Larry dietrich over at the Syracuse New Times,

955
01:18:29.199 --> 01:18:31.279
and he was sympathetic to topic,
and apparently he had read a lot

956
01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:34.560
of books, because we sat there
in the interview talking about it, and

957
01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:39.840
he was talking about certain authors that
I had read in high school. So

958
01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:45.359
I started writing articles, and that
forced me to go into both the National

959
01:18:45.479 --> 01:18:51.720
UFO Data Reporting Center's database and the
move On database and just call around for

960
01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:58.079
older accounts. And there's also a
lot of good books out there. Preston

961
01:18:58.159 --> 01:19:02.159
Dentson, he wrote a really good
book about New York State UFO stings.

962
01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:08.199
He had had it from like a
lot of news clippings and things like this,

963
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:13.920
and his reference to his book and
those frequently would give me the information

964
01:19:14.079 --> 01:19:16.760
I needed to go back into one
of the databases and maybe research at someplace

965
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:21.520
else, okay, and get kind
of a second thing. Well, there

966
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:31.079
was a guy, there was a
researcher found a reference and a baptismal certificate,

967
01:19:31.439 --> 01:19:38.880
our baptismal record for a church down
in the New York City area from

968
01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:45.359
In one case, this one was
from the eighteen sixty time frame, a

969
01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:50.520
woman saw a bright burning cross in
the sky. Oh, I think I've

970
01:19:50.560 --> 01:19:55.159
heard this one before. You know, it may have been in I bet

971
01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:58.279
it was in Phoenix. When I
listened to you talk, it might have

972
01:19:58.319 --> 01:20:00.880
been, but for your listeners,
what happened was the guy that the modern

973
01:20:00.920 --> 01:20:05.239
researcher went and looked at the newspapers
from that area. You got to remember

974
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:11.960
eighteen sixty eighteen sixty one, there
were no flying machines right. Well,

975
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.439
in this lady was in a place
in New York City called five Points.

976
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:21.119
It's down kind of close to what
we would now call Wall Street, very

977
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:27.239
very notorious piece of area, and
at that time a lot of immigrants,

978
01:20:27.279 --> 01:20:30.600
a lot of poor immigrants. It
was. It was a rather if you

979
01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:32.920
look, if you saw the movie
Gangs of New York, that was five

980
01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:39.119
Points. Okay, Well, this
woman about midnight looked out of an attic

981
01:20:39.319 --> 01:20:44.520
apartment that she lived in, Missus
Baxter, and she looked out and she

982
01:20:44.600 --> 01:20:48.560
saw she thought to be a flaming
cross in the sky. Well, the

983
01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:57.600
modern researcher found out on the same
vector there was a block size fire,

984
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:02.920
several warehouses and a bunch of folly
light light industrial buildings out of block member

985
01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:06.359
buildings in those days were all pretty
much wood. It went up. It

986
01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:11.319
was a block sized fire, city, block sized fire, and the only

987
01:21:11.399 --> 01:21:16.079
thing the researcher could figure was there
had to be a say, a cross

988
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:21.680
shaped UFO melted metal hall, thinking
almost like an airplane hovering above the city,

989
01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:30.880
and the flames were reselecting off the
hall. Wow, I was thinking

990
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:33.960
you were going a different way with
this. I was thinking somehow it was

991
01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:38.600
going to come up that it had
to do with the fire itself. No,

992
01:21:38.600 --> 01:21:43.239
no, the sighting. No,
there's no correlation to that. Eighteen

993
01:21:43.399 --> 01:21:49.079
seventy nine, this was a New
Jersey report, but I kept it because

994
01:21:49.119 --> 01:21:59.920
there it had New York City implications. A New Jersey astronomer saw an army

995
01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:10.119
object parked over remember eighteen seventy now
parked over New York Harbor. Now there's

996
01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:16.680
most of the shoots at that time
were mastered sailing ships still still at that

997
01:22:16.760 --> 01:22:21.279
point, and it was parked.
He took measurements and everything. Of course,

998
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:24.960
he went to the Times with it, and they ignored him. And

999
01:22:25.039 --> 01:22:29.560
New York Times has been good about
ignoring UFO reporse for years and just over

1000
01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:33.960
one hundred years. But another paper
in town that's now defunct did publish his

1001
01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:40.199
letter to the editor. His same
letter to the editor was also published about

1002
01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:45.720
a month or two later in Scientific
American. Well other people came out of

1003
01:22:45.720 --> 01:22:50.159
the woodwork that were astronomers from up
a little bit further up to Hudson and

1004
01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:56.520
Long Island and in Connecticut, and
they hit similar measurements and when they put

1005
01:22:56.600 --> 01:23:00.720
all their numbers together they estimate this. They estimate that it was at one

1006
01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:04.800
hundred and two miles hovering one hundred
and two miles, so that is not

1007
01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:10.560
geosynchronous orbit, so that it had
to be moving at a very very very

1008
01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:15.560
very fast rate of speed in order
to maintain that position. Okay, one

1009
01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:23.279
hundred and two miles, it's not
a synchronous orbit. And they also estimate

1010
01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:29.279
from all the measurements that it was
a half a mile in diameter, and

1011
01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:32.199
apparently they feel that it was just
parked over the city studying, you know,

1012
01:23:32.319 --> 01:23:39.319
anthropology type things, studying the culture. Now, the oldest sighting in

1013
01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:45.239
New York State is from seventeen ninety
wow and ends up with Scalaria County.

1014
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:49.920
It's a little south of Albany,
and it was a Dutch settler and it

1015
01:23:49.960 --> 01:23:57.319
was in the middle of summer and
he was on his porch playing his fiddle

1016
01:23:57.319 --> 01:24:03.760
around sunset, and he started hearing
a very very loud, roaring sound and

1017
01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:10.399
a bright light coming from the north. It came down a couple hundred yards

1018
01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:15.319
from his house. He said it
was maybe one hundred yards long. It

1019
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:20.840
was tapered like a snake. Its
front end or what moved like the front

1020
01:24:20.920 --> 01:24:25.800
end kind of looked like a tree
that had been uprooted. I tell people,

1021
01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:28.159
if you hang your hand out there
and make like a little claw it,

1022
01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:30.840
that's kind of what he probably saw, you know. And he said

1023
01:24:30.840 --> 01:24:36.039
it was a red hot sparking like
a welding iron, which in those days,

1024
01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:42.319
a welding iron was something you put
in the fire to weld a scene

1025
01:24:42.399 --> 01:24:46.479
with lead or something like that.
And it hovered above the ground, about

1026
01:24:46.520 --> 01:24:49.439
three or four feet above the ground, and it moved at the speed of

1027
01:24:49.479 --> 01:24:55.399
a galloping horse. It met a
little local hill, it went up over

1028
01:24:55.439 --> 01:24:58.479
the hill, and at last he
saw that it had gone over the hill,

1029
01:24:58.760 --> 01:25:01.640
but it maintained its height above the
ground when it meant the hill.

1030
01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:08.840
He swore it out in the county
seat of Carlisle. Two years later.

1031
01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:15.439
Wow, wow, that is that's
quite quite the story there. Now.

1032
01:25:15.439 --> 01:25:21.000
I'm wondering if you know, we
talked today about people getting ridicule for talking

1033
01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:26.079
about this. You wonder what happened
back then, you know, because it's

1034
01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:30.840
so out of this world type of
thing, and especially since they're not happening

1035
01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:38.960
a lot, you know, you
wonder what happened? Well, people didn't.

1036
01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:44.399
People usually after they called a meteor
because he didn't know what else to

1037
01:25:44.439 --> 01:25:49.039
call it. Okay, there was
another sighting in eighteen sixty one in New

1038
01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:53.880
York City actually started the sightings,
and you're gonna love this. The sighting

1039
01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:59.239
actually started. I was noticed up
around Albany and New York. There were

1040
01:25:59.279 --> 01:26:03.960
two glowing what they call them fireballs
or meteors, flying down to the sky

1041
01:26:05.199 --> 01:26:14.600
when it got over New York City. The reporters that reported it said it

1042
01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:16.159
was unusual because you know when you
see like a meteor, it's like,

1043
01:26:16.199 --> 01:26:20.800
oh, look at that. You
know it's gone right. They said it

1044
01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:28.720
was in the sky from horizon to
horizon for over a minute, well a

1045
01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:32.159
window at night time and just around
just after sun. Said that horizon is

1046
01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:38.399
about sixteen miles from side to side, your visible range. Okay, Well,

1047
01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:42.920
we had paid. We had news
clippings that take it all the way

1048
01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.479
back. They have reported the same
thing being reported in Philly, being reported

1049
01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:51.159
in Washington, d C being reported
in Norfolk, Virginia, where they lost

1050
01:26:51.199 --> 01:26:55.800
sight of it as it flew into
a cod bank. These two balls of

1051
01:26:55.880 --> 01:27:00.159
fire, so to speak. Okay, Well, we sat down and we

1052
01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:03.880
calculated that window that took over a
minute for fly bygh in New York City.

1053
01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:09.199
And we also looked at the time
that they reported seeing in Albany,

1054
01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:15.279
in New York, in Philly,
in Washington, and in Norfolk, and

1055
01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:20.439
we estimated to have been flying somewhere
between fifteen hundred and three thousand miles an

1056
01:27:20.439 --> 01:27:26.520
hour. We learned a couple of
years ago in Russia that the meteor that

1057
01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:30.720
came in over the Northern Russia there
came in at fifty thousand miles an hour.

1058
01:27:30.760 --> 01:27:33.119
And that's about the speed they do
come in at. Something comes in

1059
01:27:33.159 --> 01:27:36.920
at fifteen you know, our modern
jets fly at fifteen hundred and three thousand

1060
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:43.880
miles an hour. That is the
speed of like a re entry vehicle in

1061
01:27:43.880 --> 01:27:47.520
the high atmosphere, right, Okay. And that's the point that I put

1062
01:27:47.560 --> 01:27:51.479
into one of my articles that when
we did the analysis, that I believe

1063
01:27:51.560 --> 01:27:59.560
that the sighting was an entry,
an atmospheric entry event for something huh wow.

1064
01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:04.520
And it's funny how all those people
along the coast down to would you

1065
01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:09.760
say, Carolinas down to Norfolk,
Virginia. Yeah, Virginia. Yeah,

1066
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:12.560
at the southern end of Virginia,
Norfolk, Virginia, and that's north of

1067
01:28:12.560 --> 01:28:15.920
the Carolinas. Yeah. Uh huh. We have au Ryan Uh. Sprague

1068
01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:19.479
is in the chat room. He
says, Hi, Hi Ryan, And

1069
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:26.920
Ryan does a uh he does a
show that you'll well, the link is

1070
01:28:26.960 --> 01:28:30.279
not working. Ryan, Why don't
you type in the name of your show

1071
01:28:30.319 --> 01:28:34.000
and when it is and I'll announce
that and uh so, if anyone wants

1072
01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:36.039
to jump in the chat room,
all you have to do is go to

1073
01:28:36.079 --> 01:28:41.159
podcast ufo dot com and if anyone
would like to call in, it's six

1074
01:28:41.319 --> 01:28:47.199
o three nine six seven four oh
three. Oh. Now you were talking

1075
01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:55.800
about, you know, people being
ridiculed. People didn't really seriously get ridiculed

1076
01:28:55.880 --> 01:29:00.800
about this stuff until Projects Sign that
in the late forties when the military and

1077
01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:05.560
the government was trying to hush it
up a bit. Okay, before Project

1078
01:29:05.560 --> 01:29:09.960
Blue Book and all that, they
were really trying to hush it up and

1079
01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:14.600
make people out to be crazy or
discredit them. Things exist, and that

1080
01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:19.600
was kind of where our modern culture
gets the idea of you don't want to

1081
01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:23.560
talk about that, don't let anybody
know about that. You know that kind

1082
01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:28.119
of intelience. You wouldn't believe how
many people that I interview that say,

1083
01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:30.319
well, when we saw it,
we told our parents and they told us

1084
01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:34.680
not to tell anybody. You know, but you know it. Basically,

1085
01:29:34.760 --> 01:29:39.000
since I've had my column, I've
had people invite me over for a backyard

1086
01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:42.640
barbecue and here, have a glass
of lemonade and stelling our uncle Ralph here,

1087
01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:45.439
he's got a story to tell you. And you can always tell the

1088
01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:48.520
ones that are really genuine. They
start to tell you the story, it's

1089
01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:53.239
like a case of PTSD. You
can see it and rise they're there again.

1090
01:29:54.399 --> 01:29:57.760
That's the weird thing about UFO settings. When you remember when it stays

1091
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:02.159
with you the rest of your life. Right, No, I'm there with

1092
01:30:02.199 --> 01:30:09.439
you from experience myself. So anyway, going back, it's into the Fray.

1093
01:30:09.479 --> 01:30:15.640
That's Ryan Sprague's show, and I'm
having trouble opening the website. I

1094
01:30:15.680 --> 01:30:19.880
was going to announce the time and
everything it's on. But anyway, Ryan's

1095
01:30:19.880 --> 01:30:25.199
are really here. It's Thursdays.
Ryan's a great guy. Thursdays at seven

1096
01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:32.680
pm. PST and which is ten
pm Eastern Standard time. Yeah. Ryan

1097
01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:35.920
mentioned earlier on the chat room that
he would love to speak at one of

1098
01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:42.840
the conventions if you ever put one
together. I have every He's on my

1099
01:30:42.960 --> 01:30:46.479
list of possible guys to invite.
I'd like to do the first little mini

1100
01:30:46.520 --> 01:30:49.479
convention we do. If we do
one up here, we'd like to use

1101
01:30:49.520 --> 01:30:55.640
strictly New York State uphilologist for the
first one. We've got a lot of

1102
01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:57.960
great talent here in New York,
and I've talked to a bunch of people

1103
01:30:57.960 --> 01:30:59.920
who said that they would love to
come and do a thing like that.

1104
01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:01.960
So, yeah, Ryan, I'll
keep you in mind. Yeah, I

1105
01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:10.000
think he's right in the city.
Actually. So we were talking about locations

1106
01:31:10.039 --> 01:31:14.560
and different counties and things like that, and we had a message up on

1107
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:23.560
the chat room that someone wanted to
ask you what the other heavily reported areas

1108
01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:28.560
were in the Okay, the nine
heavy hitters. Okay, I'm sorry,

1109
01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:33.079
he was talking about other than New
York. Oh okay, hang on just

1110
01:31:33.119 --> 01:31:39.880
one second, if you would sure, Hello Coller, please identify yourself and

1111
01:31:40.840 --> 01:31:45.000
ask you a question. Oh yes, thanks, Brandon, I'm from Boston,

1112
01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:48.199
Massachusetts. Oh, hi, Brandon
Hi just listening to the show,

1113
01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:54.279
if I was fascinating, I was
just wondering what the maps show in terms

1114
01:31:54.319 --> 01:32:03.520
of New England UFO phenomenon and what
the most settings experiences were in that region

1115
01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:11.640
where I come from. Okay,
Actually, I put there's a there's a

1116
01:32:12.279 --> 01:32:19.159
group on Facebook called the Greater New
England UFO Conference, and I put a

1117
01:32:19.279 --> 01:32:26.720
chart up this morning for them,
and basically it was the New York It

1118
01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:30.720
was one of my charts for New
England based on some other study work I'm

1119
01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:34.880
doing. I've got the five states. I've got Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine,

1120
01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:40.600
New Hampshire, Vermont, and Rhode
Island. Okay, during the study

1121
01:32:40.640 --> 01:32:45.000
window of fifteen years, which is
nineteen ninety nine to twenty fourteen, Massachusetts

1122
01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:51.600
had thirteen one hundred eighty six,
Connecticut had nine hundred and sixty two.

1123
01:32:54.319 --> 01:32:57.880
Maine had five hundred and eighty eight. When you consider how small Maine in

1124
01:32:57.920 --> 01:33:00.880
that Maine is, that's a lot. I'm sure I had five hundred and

1125
01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:09.520
fifty seven, Vermont had three hundred
and thirty four, and Rhode Island had

1126
01:33:09.640 --> 01:33:15.239
two hundred and ninety five. Now
what happened is after I put that up

1127
01:33:15.279 --> 01:33:17.079
on the list. I had people
come back to me and say, hey,

1128
01:33:17.199 --> 01:33:23.399
what about Massachusetts. Was there any
particular year that was a heavy hitter

1129
01:33:23.560 --> 01:33:27.479
year? So I put another chart
up in that conference room this evening,

1130
01:33:29.239 --> 01:33:34.079
Massachusetts. The thirteen hundred and eighty
six UFO sightings for the study period in

1131
01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:42.039
Massachusetts average from in nineteen ninety nine
thirty one reported sightings, and it kind

1132
01:33:42.039 --> 01:33:48.319
of ramps up up to about one
hundred and five in twenty eleven, and

1133
01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:53.199
then it spikes in twenty twelve,
and at that point it goes up one

1134
01:33:53.279 --> 01:33:56.640
hundred and fifty five, one hundred
and ninety five, hundred and ninety seven

1135
01:33:58.079 --> 01:34:02.239
twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, respectively. That's me, is there any particular

1136
01:34:02.319 --> 01:34:08.800
county or the job So I don't
have county data for at the present time.

1137
01:34:08.840 --> 01:34:13.399
I don't have county data for rough
Massachusetts. At some point I'm trying

1138
01:34:13.439 --> 01:34:17.439
to do a complete study for the
Massachusetts, for all the counties in New

1139
01:34:17.479 --> 01:34:23.199
England and figure out what their hotspots
are. But the crunching the data is

1140
01:34:23.199 --> 01:34:27.039
a little difficult. I have to
look it all up for the national UFO

1141
01:34:27.159 --> 01:34:31.279
Reporting database, and I have to
talk move on into sending me spreadsheets.

1142
01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:35.800
That spreadsheet is sending me spreadsheet data
that I can suck into my database and

1143
01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:41.399
crunch. So these things take time
to do. Absolutely, thank you for

1144
01:34:41.439 --> 01:34:44.880
taking my call. Thank you,
Brandon. Thanks, good night, good

1145
01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:48.279
night. Now you know I messed
up a little bit on the question that

1146
01:34:48.399 --> 01:34:55.000
I asked, and since we're on
the similar topic, I'll read it verbatim

1147
01:34:55.119 --> 01:35:00.319
here. So as you mentioned earlier
that the US has roughly five percent of

1148
01:35:00.439 --> 01:35:04.439
total sightings. Where else in the
world are big hotspots? And why if

1149
01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:09.960
you have a ferry? Okay,
it was not the USS five percent.

1150
01:35:10.039 --> 01:35:14.920
New York State has five percent of
the world sightings. Oh wow, that's

1151
01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:21.520
pretty high. Yeah, it is
New York State. Actually the United States.

1152
01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:28.319
The number. I did a really
rough count some time back for an

1153
01:35:28.439 --> 01:35:32.159
article, and the argument that I
made in one of my article was,

1154
01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:38.079
Okay, North America we had about
in that same fourteen year window nineteen ninety

1155
01:35:38.159 --> 01:35:44.720
nine to twenty fourteen, we had
about sixty five thousand sightings in North America

1156
01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:48.039
logged. Okay, And then I
was showing the numbers for the top ten

1157
01:35:48.119 --> 01:35:53.119
states and I broke that down.
New York State had it's forty six forty

1158
01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:57.159
seven or whatever, and that that
was the flavor. I was trying to

1159
01:35:57.159 --> 01:36:00.239
make a point in one of my
articles that there's a lot more going on

1160
01:36:00.319 --> 01:36:04.239
than we're being told, and it
was that was the case of my article,

1161
01:36:05.159 --> 01:36:08.920
there's a lot going on out there. I have people tell me all

1162
01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:11.720
the time, Oh, there can't
be that much going on. Well there

1163
01:36:11.840 --> 01:36:16.479
is so. And that's another reason
why I've started doing not just New York

1164
01:36:16.520 --> 01:36:23.720
State since they started writing for slantnews
dot com, I've started doing studies of

1165
01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:28.079
other states. Yeah. Someone was
just just put up on the message board.

1166
01:36:28.079 --> 01:36:30.840
They wanted to know, like,
for instance, if you know what

1167
01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:34.199
the top ten states were as far
as sightings. Yeah, yeah, I

1168
01:36:34.199 --> 01:36:36.920
can tell you that in twenty seconds. There, can you say it?

1169
01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:43.840
Here? The top ten states are. I'm just going to move back up

1170
01:36:43.880 --> 01:36:48.159
to the screen. Here it is, Oh coool, I'll bring it up

1171
01:36:48.199 --> 01:36:53.279
momentarily. Sure, anyone could call
in if they have a question. That's

1172
01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:58.000
at six three nine six seven four
o three. Oh. You can also

1173
01:36:58.079 --> 01:37:01.600
ask a question in the chat room
and just have to go over to podcastufo

1174
01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:08.880
dot com. Okay, I'll have
this momentarily. Top ten States. Actually,

1175
01:37:08.920 --> 01:37:15.359
it starts out with California. There's
there's was huge, right. It's

1176
01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:17.600
a big, long state with a
lot of people and a lot of nice

1177
01:37:17.640 --> 01:37:21.640
weather. A lot of people outside. A lot people say that too.

1178
01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:26.239
But you know, I had one
guy tell me he said, the oh,

1179
01:37:26.279 --> 01:37:31.359
well, California is easy because they
have all the they have the they

1180
01:37:31.399 --> 01:37:35.279
have all the testing of all the
special aircraft and all that stuff you know

1181
01:37:35.359 --> 01:37:40.199
coming out of the skunk where you
know, Lockheed skunk Works and all that

1182
01:37:40.279 --> 01:37:44.000
kind of stuff. And that's that's
a definite possibility. Okay. For the

1183
01:37:44.079 --> 01:37:46.800
fourteen years fifteen year sighting, I
keep saying fourteen years, I really mean

1184
01:37:46.880 --> 01:37:56.039
fifteen years, citing data for the
top ten states. The key thing this

1185
01:37:56.119 --> 01:38:00.760
is national UFO reporting data only does
not include move on. If it did

1186
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:05.119
include move on, the numbers would
probably be close to double. Okay,

1187
01:38:05.560 --> 01:38:13.680
But the raw numbers from National UFO
Reporting Center database in California had for the

1188
01:38:13.720 --> 01:38:19.560
fifteen years nine thousand, three hundred
and fifty sightings. The next one was

1189
01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:27.600
Florida forty six hundred and thirty one
sightings. Washington State always has been a

1190
01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:31.039
heavy hitter, okay, since the
forties has been a heavy hitter. Forty

1191
01:38:31.079 --> 01:38:41.159
one hundred eighty four sightings Texas thirty
six sixty six New York. Again,

1192
01:38:41.239 --> 01:38:44.760
this is raw data. You've heard
me say forty six hundred sightings. That

1193
01:38:44.960 --> 01:38:49.960
was combined data, but the raw
number from National Youthful Reporting Centers thirty one

1194
01:38:50.039 --> 01:38:58.479
hundred eleven sightings. Arizona is the
next one at twenty eight to fifty,

1195
01:38:58.800 --> 01:39:08.439
Pennsylvania twenty six thirty nine, Illinois
twenty six oh five, Ohio of twenty

1196
01:39:08.479 --> 01:39:14.439
four ninety seven, and Michigan at
nineteen eighty. Wow, I had that

1197
01:39:14.520 --> 01:39:15.640
when I put that up. When
I put that up, I had a

1198
01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:18.560
couple of people from Nevada say,
hey, we have all kinds of anxieties.

1199
01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:21.399
Why aren't we a heavy hitter?
You know. Then when I started

1200
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:25.640
talking to the guys, we we
see him so often, we don't bother

1201
01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:27.720
to report them. So I mean, if you don't log I mean,

1202
01:39:27.720 --> 01:39:31.319
you know, we're not going to
count them. Yeah. It's kind of

1203
01:39:31.319 --> 01:39:38.680
funny the way you just said that, because I think that there is a

1204
01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:42.319
bit of that going on, people
saying, well, you know, it's

1205
01:39:42.560 --> 01:39:45.560
it's not that big of a deal, you know, like in a hotspot

1206
01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:48.159
or something. You know, people
were saying, well, you know,

1207
01:39:48.279 --> 01:39:53.199
we see these things all the time, so it's not that kind of like

1208
01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:58.920
makes people have that outlook if if
they see a lot going on, I

1209
01:39:58.960 --> 01:40:04.000
would I would imagine at you know, well, it's it's it's goofy.

1210
01:40:04.119 --> 01:40:10.039
Because I had a guy today tell
me bumped up to me at work and

1211
01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:12.720
he says, do you write that
column? You know? And I said

1212
01:40:12.800 --> 01:40:15.920
yeah, and I told him he
says, and he said, well,

1213
01:40:15.960 --> 01:40:18.640
I think they're all on drugs.
And I said, well, if he

1214
01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:25.640
cranked that back against the standard formula, that's twenty five percent. All of

1215
01:40:25.680 --> 01:40:30.239
that standard formula takes all of that
into account. Uh huh, atmospheric conditions,

1216
01:40:30.600 --> 01:40:40.119
stars, clouds, birds, psych
issues, hoaxes, mis misidentification of

1217
01:40:40.199 --> 01:40:45.880
other aircraft. It's all taken into
account in this think. This has been

1218
01:40:45.920 --> 01:40:49.680
thought up by some very very sharp
investigators. I just used the formula.

1219
01:40:50.199 --> 01:40:55.800
H wow. I like that actually, you know, because it's something you

1220
01:40:55.840 --> 01:41:00.119
can actually fall back on when someone
says something like that. And if you

1221
01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:02.520
really want to get conservative, you
know, the ufiologists, all the serious

1222
01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:08.119
researchers that I met I've met at
the conventions, would tell you about twenty

1223
01:41:08.159 --> 01:41:12.159
percent. And these are usually the
investigators will tell you this. But if

1224
01:41:12.159 --> 01:41:15.680
you really want to get conservative and
take knocked that number down to five percent,

1225
01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:23.279
it's still a really serious number.
Absolutely. One of the things we

1226
01:41:23.279 --> 01:41:26.039
were talking earlier. Now, I
know we're bouncing back and forth, but

1227
01:41:26.479 --> 01:41:30.760
when you were talking about the earlier, you know, the early historical sightings

1228
01:41:30.760 --> 01:41:36.920
that you're finding in newspaper clippings,
do you think that someone will actually undertake

1229
01:41:38.560 --> 01:41:45.720
Has anyone ever talked about undertaking that
type of situation nationally, you know,

1230
01:41:45.800 --> 01:41:50.800
looking at clippings for sightings. Has
anyone been working on that? No,

1231
01:41:53.680 --> 01:41:56.479
Let's tell you, well, yes
there was, and let me explain how

1232
01:41:56.520 --> 01:42:01.159
that worked. There was one guy, can't remember his name. He was

1233
01:42:01.199 --> 01:42:05.359
back in the sixties. He wrote
a paper for the old Nightcap organization.

1234
01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:15.600
Okay. This guy was a professional
actor okay, and he was traveled in

1235
01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:24.600
road shows okay. And what he
did was a little pet project of his.

1236
01:42:24.800 --> 01:42:29.039
And remember this is well before in
the sixth early sixties. This was

1237
01:42:29.119 --> 01:42:32.840
well before the internet, okay.
And what he did was whenever he was

1238
01:42:32.880 --> 01:42:35.760
in a town. Remember, an
actor would be performing in the evening,

1239
01:42:35.800 --> 01:42:41.319
so he pretty much had his afternoons
free. So he would go through the

1240
01:42:41.399 --> 01:42:44.920
library and he would go through their
stacks, and he would also go through

1241
01:42:45.239 --> 01:42:49.560
their their back issues of newspapers,
microfilm if they had that type of thing,

1242
01:42:49.880 --> 01:42:56.840
looking for UFO citing reports, okay, And he did it to a

1243
01:42:56.960 --> 01:43:03.399
very specific window of time, did
it for about a month's worth of dates

1244
01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:15.479
from about middle of June nineteen forty
seven to about late July nineteen forty seven.

1245
01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:23.760
And it's a rather really it's a
very very very good report off the

1246
01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:27.000
air. If you give me an
email address, if I've got the PDF

1247
01:43:27.039 --> 01:43:30.199
somewhere in my computer, I'll shoot
you a copy of it. Okay.

1248
01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:35.239
But the deal is, you know, a lot of the Upper Table channels

1249
01:43:36.319 --> 01:43:41.119
they talk about they'll start talking about
UFO, some of these programs you see,

1250
01:43:41.159 --> 01:43:43.840
you know, and they always make
it sound like it all started with

1251
01:43:44.039 --> 01:43:50.880
Roswell, right, you know.
And Roswell was only a symptom of a

1252
01:43:50.920 --> 01:43:56.760
bigger set of sightings that were going
on for about a month around the same

1253
01:43:56.880 --> 01:44:03.880
time that Roswell happened, Okay.
And it wasn't until like the late seventies,

1254
01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:12.359
when Jesse Marcel spilled the beans to
Stanton Friedman, did we really have

1255
01:44:12.640 --> 01:44:18.359
the current understanding of the Roswell cash
because back in nineteen forty seven just weather

1256
01:44:18.399 --> 01:44:23.520
balloon Threshol said okay, nothing here
by, you know, and that was

1257
01:44:23.560 --> 01:44:31.119
it all right now if there was
anything that was ever telling. So when

1258
01:44:31.119 --> 01:44:38.119
you read this guy's paper in the
mid nineteen sixties, of all of the

1259
01:44:38.239 --> 01:44:43.760
sighting reports that went on during that
window of time, there were like some

1260
01:44:44.319 --> 01:44:48.399
seven hundred sightings in a period.
There was a bigger number than that.

1261
01:44:48.439 --> 01:44:57.680
But the peak of the sighting window
was in the week of about the late

1262
01:44:58.239 --> 01:45:03.319
about late June, hm, the
late June. And there have been many

1263
01:45:03.439 --> 01:45:09.560
theories. Is said that the UFO
crash in Roswell and the other one that

1264
01:45:09.680 --> 01:45:14.279
was quite a distance away. I
think it was a roar. I'm not

1265
01:45:14.359 --> 01:45:18.720
positive happened at the same time.
And that lens some you know, people

1266
01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:23.279
say that might learn some credence with. But I think what was telling to

1267
01:45:23.399 --> 01:45:28.840
me was I got a friend of
mine's member of the Civil Air Patrol,

1268
01:45:29.520 --> 01:45:32.239
and an airplane goes down. Everybody
goes out there and beats the bushes and

1269
01:45:32.239 --> 01:45:35.920
flies around there looking for these guys. Right. Well, I looked at

1270
01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:40.119
this chart, I looked at the
dates. I knew what was being reported

1271
01:45:40.159 --> 01:45:43.760
in the paper. I know when
the roswell thing hit the paper, it

1272
01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:50.039
was an issue for one day the
news, okay. And I looked at

1273
01:45:50.079 --> 01:45:56.560
the thing and I said, oh
my god, starship down, this is

1274
01:45:56.880 --> 01:46:02.039
all those settings. Was probably a
freaking glack take rescue, you know the

1275
01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:04.520
way I looked at it, because
I said, why, my god,

1276
01:46:04.600 --> 01:46:10.079
look at all these sudden Why would
they suddenly all be here? Okay?

1277
01:46:10.600 --> 01:46:15.479
And the majority of them were a
lot of them. There were a lot

1278
01:46:15.520 --> 01:46:17.479
of them in the Southwest, but
there was a huge amount of them in

1279
01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:21.640
the state of Washington. Well,
I never knew that. Well, I

1280
01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:27.079
knew the first, you know,
you heard Kenneth Arnold of course, in

1281
01:46:27.119 --> 01:46:30.960
the Cascades in Washington, but I
never knew there was a lot of other

1282
01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:36.479
ones. There's a there's an article
if you look in the New York Times

1283
01:46:36.520 --> 01:46:44.880
from a day or two before the
Actually, I want to say, it's

1284
01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:47.760
almost a week. It's almost a
week before the roswell story comes out,

1285
01:46:47.960 --> 01:46:55.920
okay. And they've got reports of
these flying saucers. This came out with

1286
01:46:56.199 --> 01:47:00.560
with Ken Arnold around the twenty fourth
of June. And they've got reports of

1287
01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:04.840
these things coming in on the Associated
Press from thirty eight states, okay,

1288
01:47:05.960 --> 01:47:13.039
And there's a front page news clipping. There's talking to a particular General Carl

1289
01:47:13.479 --> 01:47:15.920
I think it was Stafford, I
don't remember it off the top of my

1290
01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:21.039
head. And he was questioned by
the news guys. Okay, remember in

1291
01:47:21.039 --> 01:47:24.520
those days, they all, you
know, would all run up with their

1292
01:47:24.560 --> 01:47:29.520
pads and all that kind of stuff
and hey, general television ball the flashballs,

1293
01:47:29.560 --> 01:47:33.039
you got it? And they asked
him. He says, hey,

1294
01:47:33.159 --> 01:47:36.079
what about all these This guy was
like the head of the Army Air Corps

1295
01:47:36.079 --> 01:47:40.760
at the time, it hadn't become
the Air Force yet, and they asked

1296
01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:43.720
him about it, and he said, oh, guys, I've been out

1297
01:47:43.720 --> 01:47:47.800
of touch with everything. I've been
up in Washington State fishing. Well.

1298
01:47:47.840 --> 01:47:51.920
I went back with this guy's report, and I went back with the dates.

1299
01:47:53.640 --> 01:48:00.199
The dates of major sightings up in
Washington State were the same week he

1300
01:48:00.399 --> 01:48:03.720
was up in Washington State, about
fifty miles south of where the core of

1301
01:48:03.760 --> 01:48:10.560
all these sightings were. Wow.
I have a presentation, a standard presentation

1302
01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:15.159
that I got if anybody wants to
see it. And when I give the

1303
01:48:15.199 --> 01:48:19.720
presentation, I show those slides from
that window of time only because it was

1304
01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:26.199
reported in the New York City newspaper. Okay, but the thing was before

1305
01:48:26.600 --> 01:48:30.479
what we'll call Roswell. Roswell was
only about a forty eight hour issue,

1306
01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:33.600
and it went away very quickly because
the press was told by the military,

1307
01:48:33.680 --> 01:48:38.319
Hey, it was just a weather
balloon, right, you know, and

1308
01:48:38.600 --> 01:48:42.640
it wasn't then There was thirty years
later before somebody spilled the beans, right,

1309
01:48:42.840 --> 01:48:47.279
And we talked earlier about this.
If the listener out there hadn't heard,

1310
01:48:48.119 --> 01:48:51.640
we talk about it in the news
where we had someone come forward and

1311
01:48:51.720 --> 01:48:58.880
actually write blog that's on our website
that you can see where he was involved

1312
01:48:58.880 --> 01:49:03.600
with a roommate that they were discussing
it in the nineteen sixties. And you

1313
01:49:03.680 --> 01:49:06.880
just don't hear about that, you
know, you know, you always here

1314
01:49:06.880 --> 01:49:12.279
of nineteen eighty or nineteen seventy nine, whenever it was when it hit the

1315
01:49:12.319 --> 01:49:18.920
media. Well, it was Stanton
Friedman's book about Roswell, and Stanton really

1316
01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:25.000
blew the lid off of it because
Jesse Barcel had had cancer and didn't care

1317
01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:28.880
what were they going to do to
him, you know, And so he

1318
01:49:29.039 --> 01:49:32.039
spilled the beans on the topic.
And that's the rest is history. But

1319
01:49:32.439 --> 01:49:36.479
the problem I have with a lot
of the modern TV shows that try to

1320
01:49:36.640 --> 01:49:43.720
talk smart about the UFOs, they
all tend to hover in on Roswell and

1321
01:49:43.760 --> 01:49:47.399
there was so much else going on, but they're not doing their work,

1322
01:49:47.399 --> 01:49:50.439
and they're not fact checking, they're
not looking at it, and they're not

1323
01:49:50.479 --> 01:49:54.439
talking to somebody like me. He's
gone back and historically looked at all this

1324
01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:59.880
stuff. And I shared some of
this data with Stanton Friedman and he put

1325
01:50:00.079 --> 01:50:04.880
me onto that paper that that actor
did. Oh really, huh yeah,

1326
01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:12.359
because I came up with similar data, completely independent of what that guy's nineteen

1327
01:50:12.399 --> 01:50:15.399
sixties paper wash. And I went
to Stanton with my numbers. I said,

1328
01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:19.159
I found this really weird pattern here. You know, all these sightings

1329
01:50:19.319 --> 01:50:25.720
you know, nationwide, and I
was doing it from news clippings. Okay,

1330
01:50:25.800 --> 01:50:28.960
I mean I was spending time in
the library with microfilm. That is

1331
01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:32.279
so time consuming. Yeah, and
it's old school, you know, right.

1332
01:50:32.399 --> 01:50:35.880
Yeah, I've done research that way
through, you know, in the

1333
01:50:35.920 --> 01:50:40.880
antiques and historical things that I deal
with, you know, in my career,

1334
01:50:41.000 --> 01:50:45.199
I've actually had to do a lot
of microfichi And yeah, it's not

1335
01:50:45.319 --> 01:50:49.279
like you can go to a search
bar and search keywords or anything like that.

1336
01:50:49.600 --> 01:50:54.359
You have to scan the whole the
whole paper. It's a lot of

1337
01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:58.439
works. It's nice now before the
old the old microfish machines used to be

1338
01:50:58.479 --> 01:51:01.000
where you would print it out of
some kind of screen papers, kind of

1339
01:51:01.000 --> 01:51:05.159
like processing a photograph. You know
what they got now, which is really

1340
01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:11.239
terrific. You're looking at the traditional
microfilm reel, but they've got an electronic

1341
01:51:11.319 --> 01:51:15.600
scanner looking at it. And if
you plug your thumb driving as a computer

1342
01:51:15.800 --> 01:51:18.560
that you know that's looking at the
view that's plugged into the USP port.

1343
01:51:18.600 --> 01:51:25.359
It's plugged into this viewer. You're
capturing the the the images of these front

1344
01:51:25.359 --> 01:51:29.680
pages and things like this digitally and
it comes out the PDF form. And

1345
01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:32.319
that's really really terrific, especially if
you're doing any kind of research. Not

1346
01:51:32.439 --> 01:51:36.640
everybody has that. I happen to
have access to a couple of college libraries

1347
01:51:36.640 --> 01:51:40.680
where they have all that stuff.
So, yeah, that's pretty progressive.

1348
01:51:40.720 --> 01:51:47.239
That's great. So now you talked
about so around nineteen forty seven that I

1349
01:51:47.279 --> 01:51:53.439
think was the first week in July
that Roswell crass July eighth, I believe

1350
01:51:54.119 --> 01:51:58.359
when it was reported papers They actually
think it happened probably in the in the

1351
01:51:58.439 --> 01:52:00.720
late part of June, right,
and it was discovered and that's right when

1352
01:52:00.720 --> 01:52:03.600
it all came out. I think
it was July eighth or something like that.

1353
01:52:03.880 --> 01:52:10.319
But anyway, so then you go
on a little bit in time and

1354
01:52:10.359 --> 01:52:14.199
all of a sudden you get to
nineteen fifty two and there's a huge rash

1355
01:52:14.199 --> 01:52:20.840
of sightings and Washington Nationals. Yes, right, that is fantastic stuff,

1356
01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:27.560
you know. Amazingly enough, people
don't realize again, the people who do

1357
01:52:27.600 --> 01:52:31.239
these documentaries and talk about Roswell being
all this stuff. Well, I got

1358
01:52:31.239 --> 01:52:35.760
a picture in my slides. I've
got a picture the front cover of Life

1359
01:52:35.760 --> 01:52:44.159
magazine and there's this lovely picture of
Marilyn Monroe standing there and there's something going

1360
01:52:44.239 --> 01:52:47.319
to be major spread on Marilyn Monroe. But up in the upper ranking corner

1361
01:52:47.359 --> 01:52:53.319
of the front page of Life magazine
is a statement that says, for another

1362
01:52:53.439 --> 01:52:59.359
article, is there a case for
interplanetary saucers? Right? This is I

1363
01:52:59.399 --> 01:53:02.680
know that I know that magazine,
the one in particular. Yeah. And

1364
01:53:03.119 --> 01:53:09.720
the thing is, if you actually
read the article, the Air Force was

1365
01:53:09.800 --> 01:53:15.720
sharing information, very accurate information.
The generals were very privately sitting down with

1366
01:53:15.760 --> 01:53:21.760
reporters and said we're really worried about
this stuff. Yeah, and then something

1367
01:53:21.840 --> 01:53:29.359
changed along the way the Robertson panel
Robertson Yeah panel and all that. But

1368
01:53:30.199 --> 01:53:34.279
and that that was I think it
was nineteen fifty three, and that was

1369
01:53:34.399 --> 01:53:41.159
just to call or calm down all
the sightings. It was getting overwhelming for

1370
01:53:41.199 --> 01:53:45.600
the Air Force. Actually at that
point it was. It was very much

1371
01:53:45.600 --> 01:53:48.680
so. It was getting it was
getting overwhelming. They had to kind of

1372
01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:57.680
put down the hysteria. The other
thing that was going on was that it

1373
01:53:57.720 --> 01:54:01.000
wasn't long after this, and again
there was a lot going on. I

1374
01:54:01.000 --> 01:54:04.960
grew up in the sixties. I
remember reading a lot of books we had.

1375
01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:10.920
Frank Edwards, a famous author,
a newsman, came to our town,

1376
01:54:11.079 --> 01:54:14.800
a local. Our vocal factory hired
him to come and give a talk.

1377
01:54:15.079 --> 01:54:17.039
And I thought there may be a
couple hundred people there. There were

1378
01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:24.159
two thousand people in that auditorium.
Wow, amazing. And this is about

1379
01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:29.720
I would say, this is about
sixty sixty six sixty seven time frame.

1380
01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:34.079
I was in junior high school and
I was fascinated with some of the photographs

1381
01:54:34.079 --> 01:54:39.000
he showed us. He had some
really, really clear daylight, crisp daylight

1382
01:54:39.119 --> 01:54:44.319
pictures of these things. And it
wasn't all that long. He was on

1383
01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:47.640
three years after I my first sighting, you know, so it was really

1384
01:54:47.680 --> 01:54:58.159
really rich for me when they got
when they did the Condon report in sixty

1385
01:54:58.199 --> 01:55:01.600
eight, who killed it? This
kind of got up there. He was

1386
01:55:01.680 --> 01:55:06.640
a very smart guy, the PhD
kind of guy. And by right doing

1387
01:55:06.680 --> 01:55:11.399
the report that they did, by
saying, oh, it's boloney, there's

1388
01:55:11.399 --> 01:55:15.520
no good substantive evidence that d D
DA DA DA, and there's no reason

1389
01:55:15.520 --> 01:55:18.680
to put any money behind it,
well, that shut off the tap.

1390
01:55:18.880 --> 01:55:25.039
Academically, Nobody in colleges was really
going to do serious research because there would

1391
01:55:25.079 --> 01:55:30.039
be no money for it. Nobody
in the government would do any serious research

1392
01:55:30.039 --> 01:55:33.000
on it because there was no money
for it. Nobody at the National Academy

1393
01:55:33.039 --> 01:55:40.239
of Science would do this research because
there was no funding for it. Because

1394
01:55:40.279 --> 01:55:44.520
he said in his paper, there's
no legitimate reason for our government to put

1395
01:55:44.560 --> 01:55:47.960
any money into this, right,
Okay. Now, I was working on

1396
01:55:49.119 --> 01:55:55.039
a master's program by her back back
back back at the time of the convention,

1397
01:55:55.560 --> 01:56:00.880
and I had thought about working in
my master's paper thesis about UFO stuff,

1398
01:56:00.199 --> 01:56:02.359
and i'd had people tell me,
all mate, that's not a good

1399
01:56:02.359 --> 01:56:09.000
idea. I hate to cut you
short, Cheryl, but we are out

1400
01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:13.640
of time. Yeah, thanks so
much. It's been I will it's been

1401
01:56:13.680 --> 01:56:16.039
a real pleasure. Thanks so much. All right, now, everyone,

1402
01:56:17.079 --> 01:56:19.680
this is it for the show.
I want to thank a few people out

1403
01:56:19.720 --> 01:56:25.079
there. First of all Keith for
running the live portion of the show,

1404
01:56:25.760 --> 01:56:30.840
and we have Peggy Shining who helps
us with our Facebook page. Remember you

1405
01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:34.439
can like us on Facebook for all
the latest UFO news. Next week,

1406
01:56:34.479 --> 01:56:40.920
we have Michael Louk coming up and
we have a bunch of other really good

1407
01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:44.640
guests coming up right after that.
So that's it for the show, and

1408
01:56:44.760 --> 01:56:47.039
thanks for listening, and we'll be
talking to you next week right here on

1409
01:56:47.119 --> 01:56:48.840
the Dark Matter Digital Network.