And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalchampars. It doesn't involve
aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads.
It's so classic value. Sorcerer is standing in the cleary. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, We're not alone. Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show.
We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter
Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past episodes,
blogs, and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live
in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active
Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your
host, and tonight we have Cheryl Costa coming up. We're going to be
talking about early UFO, which is always kind of interesting to me, being
kind of a history oh I don't want to say buff but kind of a
history fan, and so I'm looking forward to that. For that, we
have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the news, but I wanted to announce we
have a winner for the T shirt graphic contest. We had four different people
enter, five different graphics and if you look on our page, number two
from Diane Cash is the hands down winner beautiful graphic and she's the same one
that made the banner for our website PODCASTUFO dot com. I want to thank
everyone for supporting the show, and you can do that just by going on
our website and all that information's right there. And we have some exciting guests
coming up. Just a little heads up. We have Jan Harzan coming up
December second. He is the executive director of MUFAN. We also have someone
I've been trying to get on the show for a long time. I had
some help, and that's James Fox. Finally, I've actually tried to get
him on almost since day one. He's going to be on the show on
December sixteenth, and next week I have Michael Lauk, who I used to
do the news with. We always have a lot of fun. He's my
guest for the entire show. But not of course, Alejandro will be here,
right, Alejandro, Right, that's good. I'm glad. How are
you, Alejandro? I'm good? So is this like do I get to
start talking? I mind part of the show. Okay, part of the
show. Yeah, that was an awkward segue, It really was, I
do so awkward. Pretty well. You know that I got to hang out
with James Fox just a couple of weeks ago because he came to the Travis
Walton event and he I gave him a ride, you know, a couple
hours from there to the airport. I've known him for a while and he
is so fun and he's got so many interesting stories. Yeah, really is
great. Really excited to have him on. And I had some help and
someone that just really just wouldn't let go and he finally said yes. Cool.
So yeah, looking forward to that. So the girl, the lady
who won for the art contest is the same one. Op, that's big
Ben. Do you hear big Ben? I do? Are you in London
now? Actually it's a doorbell which never works, and it works of course
only when we're recording here. But she's the one who did the banner for
your website. Yes, because that is so cool. Is that a particular
sighting that it is depicting where there's like this v shaped you know ufo there?
No, I just told her I just told her kind of an idea
of what I liked, and you know, she sent She's she surprised me
and I said something, you know, early evening, twilight something, and
she just sent me that graphic along with another one. The other one I
have on our Facebook page. But this was that banner for the website.
I thought was pretty awesome. It's very awesome, super cool. Yeah,
I love it. Yeah, she's very talented, I'll say, yeah,
very So we got some news, do we We do got some news.
So here's a couple pieces of news. The first one is a siting in
El Salvador. It's a sphere shaped UFO that this guy took pictures of and
videotaped on October twenty nine to twenty fourteen. It was five point thirty seven
pm when he saw this object and started taking some pictures and video. The
reason why it's posted now is because now it's been investigated and the director of
investigations for move On, Chuck Reaver, closed the case as an unknown.
Now at the pictures in the video, I guess they're all of the same
sighting and the object looks very spherical. You don't hear that too often.
You know other than the orbs. That video was right up on our website.
I did embed that as well, and the show note links by the
way. You can click on them and they'll go to the full stories over
at Openminds dot tv. Mm hmmm, so what else is happening? What
else is mida? This is a cool sighting. This one happened. There
was no date. I don't think on this one, but I'm pretty sure
that this was this year. But this is a guy who stopped at a
dairy queen and they looked out of their window on the way home and they
saw this bright light and they didn't know what it was. It got closer
and they noticed it had these big windows. At first they thought it was
a jet, but then they thought, well, the windows are too big,
and they were able to see people inside, and this thing was huge,
and they noticed it was not like a jet. It was some kind
of UFO with these creatures or something inside. They don't describe what these beings
look like inside, but they could see people in there the way they drawn.
They look sort of humanoid with a head and a torso type of thing.
And then the object quickly took off in another direction. Yeah, that
is really interesting. I wonder if anyone has investigated that and gone into detail
with what the creatures whatever they were, looked, like, Yeah, maybe
we'll hear more about this one. This one was recently posted or reported to
move on, although it's still under investigation. So Roger Marsha, director of
communications from MUFON, wrote this story and he says that this one's still under
investigation. Yeah, you know these sightings when now that's weird that it had
big, you know, rectangular windows. I mean, that's just it's almost
like an observation deck and you know, like which you know, does make
me think, what is it They're traveling back in time to look at some
event that didn't happen or or you know, or you know, if it
is extraterrestrial. I never like to say it is, but if it is,
did it come out of a mothership and then they're just floating around observing?
You know, Well, that Betty and Barney Hill case, you know,
they said they saw this object with windows and they saw the people inside.
And there's been a few other cases. There's a Turkey video right and
and although you know, I that might be there's some research unfortunately that well
for better where it seems to maybe explain the Turkey video that it's actually a
reflexion of the lens, the curvature inside the lens, and they've been able
to demonstrate similar effects that have happened before with this sort of thing. So
I'm still trying to to do more work into that. But actually Frank Warren
of UFO Chronicles has some stuff posted on that. But some people feel that
there's a window there with some creatures that you could see and that there some
people even feel that they're over a body and in fact, and he's completely
serious, and my boss feels that that these things are eating so they're kind
of enjoying sucking the juices out of a human while they're looking out and the
Turkish shoreline enjoying the beautiful view or something. So well, you know,
if that was some type of reflection. Now, I've looked at a lot
of images stills from those videos and me too, you know, Roger Lear
actually did some filming too. But it really they look just like heads,
you know, I mean, it would be to be a reflection. There's
two heads and then there's one time where there's one single well, I don't
know, I don't think they I don't think they look like heads to me.
I mean they're round objects. There are round kind of but you've got
to remember these things if you took the originals and you zoom in. There
has been some like fiddling with the pictures to try to determine what they are,
but that doesn't necessarily accurately display what they are. I mean, these
methods that are used for that sort of thing, and you know, there
could be inside of this crevice any kind of And what's unfortunate is that the
lenses I keep saying unfortunately because it is such a good case and I'm afraid
that maybe they figured it out, is that inside of the lenses, in
the rings out hoold like the lenses and stuff, there are notches and this
notch looks like one of those up So now that's they actually see a light
though that they focused on. Yeah, but I mean that's the whole point,
is that it's a single point of light, a star or a planet
that when they zoom in on it with this lens, there's a reflection inside
of the lens that causes this anomaly. But didn't there wasn't there multiple filming
in different films. Just one camera, just one camera, even though it
was several times correct, all one camera. And that's why people at first
thought, you know, maybe it was a star or something, but that
didn't pan out because it didn't look like one. But maybe it is a
reflection of that start because it was the same time every day, and it
was but it was up in the air. That's what blows away the I
think, blows away the theory that this was the top of a shrew's liner
or something. It doesn't fit the shapes of a cruise line or anything like
that. So that theory, even though some people hold, you know,
really subscribe to that one, doesn't really fit. I don't think. But
it's and no theory had fit up until fairly recently when Frank Warren had sent
me some information about how it looks like, you know, very similar to
these pictures of an inside the lens, reflection of the inside workings of the
lens itself. Well, I'd like to keep up on that. I'd like
to find out if, yeah, going back to humanoid type noted in crafts,
there was some case other than you know, there was a Father Gill
case where they're standing on top of the craft. There was another case that
someone was describing one time where they were in a car and this craft came
over and they could see the beings and the guy waved and they waved back,
which is really another thing like you know the Father Gill case. Yeah,
I don't think I remember that case, or I don't know that I'm
aware of that one. Yeah, I'd like to look that one up.
And it's something I read. You know. It's just those type of cases
are really fascinating to me because it really gets you wondering if it's you know,
if there's actually some type of being in there. Well, one of
the best humanoid cases and here's you know, I told you I was going
to give you a couple announcement or an announcement. Yeah, and I actually
have a couple of things, and you said you didn't want to know what
it was. But it has to do with this boil that I've got I
wanted to ask you about. That's why I wanted to tash you off air.
But since you wanted me to say that, no, I'm kidding,
absolutely no. One of the announcements is that one of the best humanoids cases
is the RUAI case. The aerial school where these kids. We're going to
have one of the witnesses. Oh, at the UFO Congress. I'm so
excited about it. I've met her, she's come into the office. She's
really shy. She actually did get on the air for a couple of minutes
when I was doing an interview with her friend who came with her, Luigi
Vendateelli, who's a UFO researcher in Canada. So but they're going to come
and she's going to come and talk. And what's greater, she has this
artwork that she's been doing that is inspired by the experience that she feels is
even influenced by her experience. So it's going to be super interesting. But
here's the other big announcement. This is a really big one that I'm announcing.
In the works to working out the announcement, and it's going to be
announced the first time right here, all right on your show. That is
that we're going to have another one of the first researchers or one of the
greatest credible research of humanoid cases from way back when. Really, Yeah,
who do you think that might be? Oh my gosh, you're putting me
on the spot. I'm going to say, I don't want to guess wrong,
so go ahead and tell me, Oh, that's a cop out.
It is Jacques Valet, Are you kidding? Yeah. I think it's the
first time he's ever really done a UFO conference. He's definitely hasn't done anything
like this for decades. He is friends with Lee Spiegel and they met back
in the seventies when Lee Spiegel organized this UN event for Sir Eric Gary of
oh Man, I can't remember the country ran, oh Granada and oh sure.
Eric Gary was into UFOs and he was pushing to get the UN to
investigate UFOs, and so Lee Spiegel organized his presentation to the UN for him
Lie Spiegel, who now works for the Huffington Post, and so he brought
all of these credible people, as Jacques Valet being one of them. And
so they've talked over the years, and I've been trying to get I've gotten
one interview with Jaques Vallet over his great book Wonders in the Sky Wow,
and really hard to really hard to nail down and get ahold of trying to
get hold of him for two years. Yeah, and I've asked him several
times now that I've had the contact if he would speak at the congress.
He says, no, I just don't do that sort of thing. And
he's told me this for years, even when I was with mouf On.
We tried and he just says, no, I don't do UFO conferences.
Well, Lee Spiegel, just for the hell of it, said what would
you come to the UFO Congress if I interviewed you on stage? And Jaques
said, you know what, that's something I would like to do. Oh
my god. You know what if if I was not planning on being there
in Phoenix this February, I would I would be there because of that alone.
Yeah, I'll me too. I mean, the Bob Blazaar thing was
great. It was a lot of fun. People were floored, they had
a great time. So many people have been telling me it was historical,
and it did it. There was a feeling of just, you know,
ahe and this is like a one off event. But for me, this
is even bigger. Jacques Vallet, I mean, I'm a huge Heinek fan.
Jay Ellen Heinek, who was an astronomer at Northwestern and consultant for the
Air Force on UFOs and his protege was Jacques Vallet, both of them being
consultants for Close Encounters, Truffo's character even being based off of Jacques Vallets,
the French guy, and so I mean and his books. I've always been
a huge fan of Valets. I was so floored when I got an interview.
But now that I'm going to get to meet him, this is going
to be a treasured selfie. Well that's great. Wow, I'm so excited
about it. I'm excited too. Actually, that's just great. Yeah,
I mean, this is the ufologist's uphologist, you know, Yeah, so
this is going to be really cool. But yeah, he investigated a lot
of humanoids and Jacques. What's great about Jacques? And I think you agree.
You just mentioned maybe they come from the future or something like that.
Jacques frustrates people because he's never said for you know that he always says it's
not necessarily extraterrestrial. There could be other things. Now, when I interviewed
him, he talked a lot about that and how people get frustrated when he
talks about that. But I asked, do you though believe that some of
this could be extraterrestural? And he said, yeah, he believes that some
of it probably is, but that there's probably many many other things happening that
are just beyond our comprehension rights. I totally agree with that. A lot
of times, you know, I've said kind of redundantly that, you know,
maybe it's something that nobody's even thought of yet, you know very well
could be. Yeah, exactly, and I think it most likely is,
because that's what science typically is. We have ideas about things should be this
way or that way, and then once we get there, send the probe
or you know, put it under the microscope. It's completely something we never
even could have imagined it could have been. Right now, we probably ought
to get on with the news a little bit. And I also have a
story after your I know you have one more I think to go, okay,
and after that, I'd like to talk about a story. Okay,
great, I'm excited to hear it. Okay. This last one's a fun
one because this is a Miami witness. This was actually an event that happened
in nineteen ninety seven, and the witness just wrote mouf on about it happened
in December twenty fourth, when the witness is twelve years old. She says
that on Christmas eve, she was sitting on top of her mom's car.
This was in Miami, I think I said that, But she was sitting
up there with a friend, and her friend just kind of got shocked and
was looking in the sky and she looked up and there was like this red
light, and she looked at it for a while and finally and saw that
there was this big craft in the air that this red light was attached to.
And then this red light shut down a beam. She says. It
was only maybe twenty thirty feet long, and it was circular in shape.
It was a dull, gray colored saucer. She even said that she thinks
that her friend, the guy, could have stood up and possibly touched it.
But it shined down a beam, she says, and she was paralyzed,
and she could look around, but her and the guy were paralyzed.
Once the beam turned off, it slowly started to move away, and they
both ran into their homes to call their families out to look, And finally
their families came out and were able to see this red light taking off in
the distance. Yeah, that's something about the paralyzing thing that almost like leads
into what you hear about a lot of abduction accounts. You know, they
they just are frozen, they can't move. It could be something like that,
you know. I mean, if they you know, as it said
many times, if they had the technology to do what they do, you
know, who knows what else they can do? Mm hmm, yeah exactly,
and zapping someone with a paralyzing beam should be no problem at all.
Yeah, who knows. I mean, it's a it's a really interesting account,
but just I don't know everything. You know, you hear stories like
this and you read about them and you just kind of put yourself in their
shoes and just imagine the awe and and the how incredible it would be to
see this. It's kind of similar because of the Travis Swalton thing. You
know, I've been thinking a lot about when he came back and he says
he was laying on the road when he saw this craft above him and then
it and it took off, kind of similar to this. It's just I
don't know, it's amazing that what kind of experience that would be, and
just so many people with these great experiences right right now it's time for my
story, yay. So I had to show recently with Kevin Randall a few
weeks ago and someone, this gentleman was searching the internet and came across the
Kevin Randall and listened to the podcast, and then he wrote me and he
said, basically that I heard Kevin Randall say that there's no talk about Roswell
before nineteen eighty. Basically he said, well, I have a different account
of that because when he was back in school in the nineteen sixties, I
think it was nineteen sixty five or so, one of his roommates that was
in the service and went off to do some training and he came back and
he basically told the whole Roswell story, seeing images of the crowd, images
of actually bodies and the whole thing. And so they were talking about it
over some beers. He said, no, them were drunk, but they
talked about it over some beers back in nineteen sixty five. And he is
looking to get a hold of these people. This guy's name is Frank Barnes.
He's freely giving his name and he's looking to see if he can reach
the guy that actually was the first hand witness to those photographs in the Air
Force training. So, yeah, that is so interesting because Kevin's right.
Of course, then Kevin should know. And I'd like to make that point
too, is that you know, often people will say, oh, it
was a crash at Raswell that started the Air Force looking in TFOs or got
people into it. That's not true. People after it happened pretty much,
even you followed, just didn't. Really. There's a couple obscure references here
and there actually that I've found over the years, but for the most part,
people just didn't know about it until really Stanton Friedman, you know,
made it popular again after finding Jesse Marcellin doing those interviews and then him and
well he didn't get credit but for his research along with Bill Moors and them
putting together together the book on Roswell. So yeah, this is a that's
what makes the account that you're talking about that much more significant because you know,
you really had to know something to even know about it. Yeah,
you know, that would be great to actually talk to this guy if he
ever does uncover the witness, you know, to talk to them both.
So I'm going to keep on that and we'll see what happens with that whole
thing. Yeah, it would you know, a lot of people even debunkers
or skeptics say, you know, there was nothing ever said about it,
you know, and after it it hit the what was the name of the
paper that came out in, which is not a good paper, the grocery
store tableau, like the Inquirer. Yeah, that's right. It came out
in the Inquirer back in nineteen eighty, you know, the interview. But
the Inquirer was a credible, actual newspaper back when. Oh and then it
was bought by the former CIA guy and then it went kind of in fact.
Yeah, I mean one of the big UFO researchers was Bob Pratt because
he and he was a writer for the National Inquirer. And you know when
you read his files, which move On I think has reposted because they inherited
those because Bob Pratt was a move On guy and they gave him all of
his files. But when you read through some of that stuff, Bill Moore
later on, who became a dubious character, you know, was trying to
pitch this MJ twelve story to him, and there were others that Richard Doti
tried to give him a fake UFO story that he researched and he found was
faked. He even flew around to where it happened and discovered it was vake.
And all of these things he wouldn't print because he talked about he was
he was a credible journalist and if he couldn't he reported the facts and he
couldn't verify something, or if he found out it was a hoax, he
would not print it, not like today where essentially they just kind of make
step up. Yeah, they'll print things without even looking into him. Yeah,
yeah, Wow, that's amazing. And I know Bill Moore, you
know, walked ran away from the UFO field, and he was he was
kind of important in a lot of ways. But you know, but you
said dubious, and that's pretty well describes, you know, what he turned
out to be. And I just wondered if anyone in the UFO field at
all ever speaks to him, or will he not talk to anyone? Do
you know anything about that? He won't. The latest I mean someone I
think he talks to occasionally is Great Bishop. And Greg Bishop wrote a book
called Project Beta, which included some interviews with Bill Moore, and that book
now is probably ten fifteen years old, but it was about this whole you
know, Richard Dodi a fair and everything, but yeah, great big ship.
He does a show I think called Radio Mysterio, but it's a good
book Project Beta, if you could get it. And he was the only
one I know who has talked to him in the past. So other than
him, I don't know of anyone I know. He and Stanton Friedman had
a falling out and it was because of some dishonest dealings that Bill Moore was
involved with that Stanton Friedman had to say, I can't be attached to that.
What was the famous announcement made Chris Lambright was sitting right in the audience
when he came out and basically admitted to the entire I don't know if it
was a move on convention or what it was, but he admitted to everybody
what was the what was He admitted that he had been working with Richard Doty,
who was an OSI agent Office of Special Investigations with Kirkland Air Force Base,
and he said that he was given secret UFO info, or that he
was promised to be given secret UFO info if he updated Doty on what the
UFO people were up to, and he says he did. He knows Dotie
had spread disinformation, but at that meeting he said he did not willingly spread
any disinformation. However, later he admitted that he did and his you know,
his accounts have changed and fluctuated and gone this way in that way,
but wearing the different things. But so he's not necessarily that trustworthy. But
in that meeting he was kind of trying to justify what he did, but
it fell on deaf ears and people were screaming at him and they even had
to talk stop his talk. People were storming out and they had to stop
the talk and tell remind everybody to be civil before they started up again.
And yeah, so it was it was a dark period for eufology, and
it's something that unfortunately youphologists have many people who were involved just tried to forget.
And I can understand why they just decided, well, I'm not dealing
with him, and I'm just going to forget he exists. But you know,
under further examination, there was a lot of important stuff that can't be
forgotten because there were a lot of hoaxes and disinformation that were spread during that
period of time, and of course it's important to try to ferret out what
was real and what wasn't and that's why I have like a video online and
I've written about this all as well as Chris Lambert. He and I don't
necessarily did agree on all of this, but Chris is a great resource because,
like you said, he was there and he has some really interesting insight
into that whole period of time. Right right, Well, we went a
little long today, that's fine, So I want to thank you very much.
It was a lot of fun, and yeah, thanks for having me
on again. It was great. And come see Jacques Vallet at the UFO
Congress. I'm definitely gonna be there, all right, Alejandro. So everyone
hanging there for this quick music break. We'll be right back with Cheryl Costa.
Cheryl Costa, Hello there, welcome to the show. This is Martin
Willis. Hi. Hi there. So Cheryl. We met in Phoenix last
year at the UFO Congress and it was a pleasure meeting you and I sat
in on party you talk. Someone distracted me. I was taken away.
I didn't get to listen to your whole talk, but I'm I hear with
some background noise, I just moved away from it. Okay, good,
all right. I'm kind of a I'm not a history buff I shouldn't say
that. I'm a fan of history, and you were talking about early UFO
sidings. That fascinates me. But before we get into any of that,
can you tell the listening audience your background basically and what started you down the
path of the UFO field and writing about it. Well. I was always
sort of a UFO bystander. I had my first sighting when I was about
twelve years old to spake around sixty five or so, and we were coming
down the family was out on a Sunday afternoon. We were coming down the
country road off the side of a hill, beautiful late August afternoon, blue
sky is not a cloud anywhere, and out there in the western sky,
it's four o'clock in the afternoon. Out there in the western sky was a
great, big silver ball and it just hung there for twenty minutes. And
then when it did depart, it had it departed with lickety split wow.
So I know it was We all knew it wasn't a balloon. After we
had watched it. My mother I was very tender about it, and sat
down and explained to me something about UFOs. Apparently she was a little bit
read on it as much as she could be, probably in the nineteen sixty
five time frame, and that was it. That was my introduction. And
as I was going through high school, I found a good book at the
library. I'd bring it home and we'd share it, you know, So
there was this kind of a bonding thing with my mom. Huh, wow,
that's kind of interesting. You don't hear that too often, No,
no, you don't. Now the show, the live show producer just asked
if you could get into the phone a little more. He says, the
volume's pretty low. Sure, sure, I can do that. And I
also can speak up probably probably he needs that a little bit. Yeah,
And so you're also a playwright, and yeah, I've been writing plays since
since the well, I guess. My first formal play that got actually debuted
was in nineteen ninety four, written about thirty Since that time, I've had
about three quarters of them produced, some of them internationally. And the thing
with play rights is, unless unless you're some guy like Neil Simon, nobody
knows your name. Yep, that's right, that's right. Well, you
know it through any field, it takes really, you know, for someone
to hit the top of about anything, you know, to become the rock
star of that field. It's you know, it's like Sammy going upstream.
There's just a few make it. Yes, that's very true. Yeah,
the UFO field is about the same way. You know, there's there's a
handful of people who seem to be invited to all the conventions, and there's
a whole bunch of other people like myself who were out there doing some serious,
serious work and we don't get invited. Well you did. You did
speak at the in Phoenix, and I thought you were great, So I'm
surprised I didn't lead to more engagements for you. It led to a lot
of radio interviews, both radio and podcast type things of that type of thing.
I mean, Richard Doldan had me on his show, and a lot
of people have had me on probably good twelve or fifteen people have had me
on in one capacity or another over the past eight months, actually almost ten
months at this point. But it hasn't everybody saying, oh, we'll call
you up in twenty seventeen, you know, so it's kind of strange.
There is an effort a foot here in upstate New York. We're trying to
get enough state in New York convention going now. It may start out small
and maybe like a one day convention kind of thing, but we're trying,
and there's a handful of us out there trying to pull it together, and
there's folks down from the New York City area who are interested in making it
happen, and a bunch of us have been talking and saying, maybe we
can get together a four or five speaker one day event at some point.
Now, hang on to that thought because I want to say something. But
I also want to remind people that anyone can call in if you'd like that
six oh three nine six seven four three to zero, or you can jump
in the chat room att podcastufo dot com real easy sign up. So you
have you mentioned Richard Dolan now and you are in are you actually in Syracuse?
I'm in. I'm in Syracuse. So Richard is out Rochester Way,
So he's about ninety minutes for me right now. Is he proactive actually in
trying to get a group going to I haven't reached out to Richard yet.
That would be a good he would be a good household name more or less.
You know. Well, yeah, there's actually quite a few people here
in New York State who have had good contact with you know, either publishing
in UFOs things like this. And there's probably a good half dozen people.
Yeah, Linda Zimmerman based in the Hudson Valley. Pete Robbins writes extensively about
it. He's just about an hour from me, down down towards Watkins.
Oh. I thought he was in Pennsylvania, so he's not that. He's
actually in New York, down down nearby Seneca Lake. And there's a handful
of other people I can't pull off the top of my head right now.
There's another new guy, a new guy by the name of Tom Conway,
and he is up in the Troy, New York area, by by Albany,
and he's been doing similar research to me, and in fact we kind
of put our heads together, and quite accidentally on Facebook one day, I
was showing a chart of the percentage of UFO sightings based at the county level
in New York State. It's a very rare kind of presentation. I had
to go in and pull county data both for muff On and I had to
create it using the National UFO Reporting Database because they don't track county data,
so I had to literally go look up thirty five hundred sightings to and put
it in a spreadsheet what county they were in. Took two months. Took
two months, and every evening for a couple of hours for two months,
That's what I did. But what we figured out I had a pattern of
where all the hotspots in New York State were okay, and there's about nine
major hotspots. And what was interesting was I was showing a couple of the
slides on the UFO updates on Facebook and Tom came back to me and shot
me a shot me a picture of a map he had on the wall.
He had a New York State map on the wall, roadmap, and he
had pins in it, and he'd gone through the same databases and was putting
pins in, but he was doing it like he had pink pins for fireballs.
On another wall, he had another roadmap up there and he was doing
triangles, you know. And he was able to show the distribution of different
types of major types of UFOs and their patterns in New York State. And
it's quite a lively presentation that he's got. So I'm hoping to get him,
get him to do something at whatever kind of a little convention or conference
we've put together. Boy, I wish I could be that organized. That
sounds really great. Now I saw one of your articles. You write for
the Syracuse New Times. Is it? I write for two news services.
I write for Syracuse News Times, been with them two and a half years.
The columns called New York Skies and it's a weekly blog and it's one
of the hit blogs. It's a rocket. We rock and roll that newspaper
and we've got international readership. The editors just do cartwheels about the fact that
we have international readership from a little weekly in upstate New York. And then
I also write for the Slant news service out of New York City. Uh
and I the science editor there, has me write UFO articles for him as
well. Well. Now, I noticed in the one of your articles was
on a triangle and it was a great, great article, great sighting,
And yeah, I was afraid you were going to say that. No,
it was about the guy that said he could if there was a pole on
his barn, he could, uh, he could reach it from there or
something like that. And it was twelve foot by twelve foot by twelve foot.
He said, that's that's the approximate size. It flew real low.
Yeah. It was the one that was like literally floating over his barn.
Yeah yeah. So triangles always interest me, and it just seems like there's
more and more of them. And when you were doing this or when you
were looking at this chart, did you see that there there was a like
a peak in triangles? No? No, not as much as you might
think. I didn't. I didn't do a real series breakdown on on triangles.
But maybe a little later in the program. I can give you some
good numbers here. I only need to pull up a spreadsheet and I can
give you some real serious numbers. I just don't have it right this moment.
Actually I found it. Orange fireballs, Uh huh, that's the orbs.
They seem to be very predominant. Yeap, isn't that something we had?
Terry ray On he he and a few other people are organizing some type
of orange orb and move on and move on in some type of research.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with that or not, but they are going
to explore all these orange orbs that people are seeing, and I know that
some of them can certainly be Chinese lanterns, but they're are some there's just
too many sightings, so that do too many unusual things that it just would
couldn't be explained by the Chinese lanterns. Well, that's the joke my spouse
has with this whole thing. Every time somebody talks about the the Chinese lantern
it was one hundred and fifty six hundred miles an hour, you know,
you know, that's that's the difference. I have a lot of people write
me and honestly tell me, oh, it's just Chinese lanterns. They have
absolutely no idea what people are really reporting. And these things are flying in
formations. They're flying in formations and darting around like a bunch of like a
bunch of fireflies. They're flying in formations where they'll they'll they'll make themselves look
like an airplane. One of the best ones I ever saw was it was
they actually it was about ten of them, and they line themselves up and
if you looked at the if you just glanced up in the sky, you
would have thought it was just a jetliner up there, But it was actually
ten of them, like in a cross tea kind of formation, with a
couple of them in the back make it look cut the back wings. Wow,
it was. It was very stealth, but very cute the way they
were making it look. It was. It was quite interesting. So this
is actually a sighting that you had, No, no, no, I
saw a picture of it. A picture of it. Now. One of
the things I remembered you talking about is a two hundred year old UFO account.
Yes, all right, can we talk about that, sure? Ken?
Okay, So you know, over a fourteen year window, Okay,
fourteen year window, we had three hundred and seventy eight triangle sightings. Oh,
you're looking at this data right now. I just pulled up the pivot
table. Uh uh yeah, we had let me give a ita again,
three hundred and seventy eight triangle sightings. This is out of thirty a grand
total of thirty nine hundred and thirty one sightings over period over let us say,
over the last one hundred years. Okay, and now please understand,
before about nineteen sixty, there's not a whole heck of a lot in the
database. But from there on up to about the late eighties early nineties,
we started seeing a lot of the sightings in the database only because people either
remembered it and put it in the modern database, or it was stuff that
was carried over from back from the time before the Internet, when people faxed
these things in did about voicemail recordings and things like that. That's how people
used to report these things. After we got into the mid nineties, people
started using things like BBS's both on board services, and then as we towards
the late nineties, we got onto the Internet, and from about ninety nine
on we start seeing some serious solid reporting of UFI of sightings. That's important
to keep in mind. Now I was going to tell you the other one.
They're the big one here, circular shaped UFOs. We're going to call
them, like the just circular shape. Some of these saw a circular shape
that's in the four hundred range. Diamond shapes are almost non existent. People
seeing the flying discs, the classic flying saucer two hundred and eighty eight of
them. Fireballs on the other hand, about three hundred and eleven. So
this is this is probably over the last twenty years, is the strength of
this database. Well, the fireballs, do you mean as in a meteor?
No? No, no, no, no no no. They are
typically depicted like a glowing ball, and they have a kind of a they
have kind of a fire quality. I saw one actually last summer. I
had gone to a a conference down in Philadelphia and we were coming we were
coming back up I eighty one, just north of Scranton, and it looked
almost like a bumblebee in the distance coming down the valley. It was kind
of darting back and forth, and it was still daily. It was maybe
about a half an hour four sunset. And the guy driving the car said,
is that an orb? And and I looked down the road and I
saw this thing. It was probably at about one thousand, maybe two thousand
feet off the ground, and as we literally drove under it, I looked
up at it. Imagine a circular ball of ira descence that has kind of
a I'm going to say, you know, like if you saw in the
movies. Sometimes the things have kind of an era descence, and then there's
kind of like a maybe a steamy quality around it kind of makes it almost
look like it's maybe on fire or steaming or something. It had that quality
to it, and it was bright orange. Wow. Yeah, daylight sightings
are really interesting. And one of the things that I was thinking of when
you were talking about all these different ways of reporting is, can you imagine
what the small percentage of people that actually go through all the trouble of reporting?
You know, it's probably very low standing Friedman. When we were at
the International UFO Conference down in Phoenix back in February, at one point he
was on a panel and they raised that point. They said, you know,
what is the rate of people who actually do pick up and are going
to the computer or tele you know, make a formal report? And they
figured it's like one in ten. I wouldn't doubt it, because you know
this the point of my show comes up quite a bit when I'm talking to
someone. When I feel comfortable enough, I'll say, well, you know,
I do kind of well sort of an essay trek show on UFO,
so I'll admit it. And it's kind of funny because I've had so many
people talk about their sightings that are just you know, people you would never
imagine, and the question always come up, comes up did you report it?
And they say no. You know, I would say that of all
the people that I've talked to, I don't think there's one person that said
they reported it. And that's got to be twenty or thirty different people in
general conversation. I put up a chart a couple of weeks ago, and
I put it up on Facebook where I listed the top ten states for UFO
sightings, ok, and the top ten and when I put it up,
and I did it in a little bar chart so you can see, you
know who really were the heavy hitters for it. Now, this was strictly
based on National UFO Reporting Centered data because it's easily it's easily downloadable and you
can put it into a spreadsheeting or into a database and crunch it very nicely.
It's a little harder to get the Moufon's data. But what I have
found when I have gone off and actually got mouf On data safe for a
sane period of time, I find that this lesson about three percent duplication in
sightings probably actually gone more around one to two percent duplication and sighting. When
you combine both databases, the numbers about double. So I've got a place
where there's one hundred sightings on say National UFOL Reporting Center. Fact throw the
Mouffon numbers in there. Maybe there's another seventy for that same period of time.
So the numbers almost double. So I if I tell you that New
York State had forty six hundred and seventy five sightings over a fourteen year window,
it was because but that was National UFO Reporting Center data. They probably
closer to eight thousand sightings with combined data from both databases, right right,
and then and then you throw that other thing on top one in ten report
of UFO sighting. You do the math, it gets pretty scary. It
does get scary. I told one of the things. I told one of
the editors at the newspaper one day. He said, well, how many
sightings do we really have in New York State? I said, five percent
of the world sightings? And he both fell off his chair. And when
he wrote an editorial last year, in fact, it was last one he
did with the paper, and he just before he retired, and in fact
it was the last one of last year, and he quite literally said,
you know, the most popular column we've got here at the paper is not
in print. It's on the internet, and it's about UFOs. And oh,
by the way, before you say, why is there a UFO column
in the Syracuse New Times, he says, because there's a lot of sightings
in New York State, and then he started quoting some of my numbers,
you know, and it got a rather interesting response from the reading public,
so to speak. A lot of people are going, why isn't somebody talking
about this? And that was one of my arguments and how I got into
writing a column because nobody was reporting this stuff. And I've had people write
me and say, well, how come you're reporting a fourteen year old setting
because nobody wrote about it? Oh uh huh, No, the subject is
very popular, it really is. And have you ever looked into I want
to say, is it the Hudson What was that the lower Hudson sightings or
whatever, the one that kept happening, I mean, the one kept happening
down around the any point of the reactor. I'm going to say black triangles.
There was some type of sighting that was seen. This is going way
back though, I'm talking, you know, twenty twenty some odd years.
It was like a parkway in New York that people kept seeing, the Patanic
Parkway. Well, that particular location in New York is one of the hots
in Westchester County, and Westchester County is a hotspot. In fact, if
you give me twenty seconds, I'll pull up one of my slides and I'll
tell you exactly how many sightings they've got. Actually, what I can actually
do for you is I can actually tell you how where the hot spots are
in New York. If that's something not many people know is I haven't published
this data yet. Wow, yeah, hotspots, Your audience is going to
get the first crack at this. Oh good. Hot spots are always intriguing
to me, and it just makes me wonder why why they are hotspots.
Well, when I did a chart, I broke my study down. This
study has not been presented yet. Okay, when I broke I went and
did a In fact, this came out of the national It came out of
the the International UFO Congress meeting that we all went to there in February this
year. There was a professor there from a California university, and after he
saw my presentation, he said, well, I'm doing some studyings down in
the Hudson Valley of some caves that are not natural, they were made by
somebody and they're estimated to be close to twelve thousand years old. Wow.
And they have gone out and surveyed these things with GPS's and they can quite
literally tell you the zip code of every one of these caves. And he
asked me if I could give him a map of the hotspots of New York
State, and I said, you know, it doesn't exist, but I'll
make it for you. So the next four months I worked on breaking all
that data down to the county level. He's like the only person I've shared
the entire list of what the county sighting counts are. But that's how that
came. That's how the study came to be. And what was funny about
it was everybody was saying to me, well, you know, how come
that hotspots there? Is there a nuclear reactor or is there a military base
or something like this, And those questions started really really coming in. Everybody
tried to take a shot at what was there. And I took one first
thing. I took all the counties and broke them down by the ten economic
regions of upstate New York. Of New York State, typically about five to
eight counties per economic region, there's sixty two counties, and within each economic
region, there was one state that hovered about them all. And so if
five counties of the six in particular economic region had sightings over fourteen years that
average no more than fifteen or twenty over the fourteen years. There was one
county and there would have two hundred or one hundred and fifty or five hundred
or something like that. Yeah, that pretty much spells it out right.
So there was a spike. So I went in my editor one day and
I laid all ten slides out and let him look at them. He started
asking all the same questions. Was there a nuclear reactor, there is there
pollution there? Is it just the population center? What is it? And
he told me check everything. I spent the next three months check We checked
lay lines, we checked geological faults, we checked natural resources and minerable minerals.
There's onently four nuclear reactors in New York State, and two of them
are right about forty miles north of me, and two of them are down
on the Hudson Valley. That's it. Yeah, with the Hudson Valley,
the Hudson River Valley. UFO sighting is what I was thinking of. H
Well, the thing is there a hotspot down there. There's a place down
there called I don't know if you've ever heard of. It's called pine Bush.
Yeah, they claimed to be the UFO capital of New York. Right,
they're not. Nine other counties in New York. Sit they have more
sightings than they do now. But didn't they at one time? Wasn't something
going on at one time that it was even people were lining up? Uh?
Someone that helps out with the show on our Facebook was telling me a
story about actually parking your car and waiting, you know, people all out
on their lawn chairs waiting. Am I I'm pretty sure that was pine Bush.
It might have been. In fact, the thing is one of the
points with pine Bush. And this is where I went nine rounds with them
about this, because they got very upset when I published an article said that
they weren't this capital. Okay, all right, there's the point. Did
they report it in the database? Yes, there were there were reports.
But I told the one guy I said, like, he says, five
thousand people saw it. I said, yeah, but there was one sighting
and five thousand people saw it. It was just one sighting. Okay,
Just because five thousand people saw it doesn't give you five thousand accounts, you
know. So that was where the issue is. Yeah, and they had
they had Boy, I'll tell you, those guys under in Nonsin Valley have
had some extremely visible sightings over the years, some amazing things. There's there
was a couple down by the US Military Academy at West Point, and I
can't put my fingers on those right now, but there was a couple amazing
ones down there. But again, trying to find good write ups about it
and everything. So it's difficult. Now, what part of New York State
I've got that chart up, I can tell you where all the hotspots are.
Oh good, Okay, go ahead to lead the way. Where do
you want to go? Well, no, see, I don't have him
up in New York up in front of me. So well, let me
take it this way. If you go out to the western part of New
York State, Niagara Falls, that area Erie County, New York State is
essentially Buffalo, New York. Okay, And if all the other sightings in
the state, we're averaging around fifty or a fourteen year period or in that
general area, they had three hundred and five. Wow. And it's sometimes
referred to as the Eerie Lake effect that they have a lot of sightings up
around Erie Lake. So what about New York City you think of the population
and don't be down here. You stay in upstate in the area for a
minute. Okay, I'm gonna get I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get to
New York. But let me give you one of the mysteries here. New
York State City's easy because they got a big population. But amazingly stuff.
Everybody says New York City is tops, and they they are, and they
aren't. Okay, if you've work the numbers back against the size of the
population, there are other counties in New York State by population that has had
more sightings than they do per person. Okay, okay, now let's go
to Rochester, New York. Up there right there on Lake Ontario. A
similar phenomenon that we saw with Erie County. They have like this, two
hundred and eighty two sightings over fourteen years, and all the other all the
other eight counties in that district average maybe about twenty over the twenty for the
twenty year for the fourteen year period. I've had several New York State unithologists
look at that chart and say, my god, maybe there's a non Lake
Ontario effect that we never knew about. And so that's something to be considered.
But you want to know about New York City. Okay, well,
no, I don't have to jump. I don't have to jump there because
I'm remember there was sightings out in Long Island too. So Long Island,
well, actually Long Island is the is the heavy hitter it is. Yeah,
let me give you. Let me give you. The Hudson Valley and
Capital District, New York State's capital is Albany, New York are way up
on the Hudson, about the middle of the state. Okay, they've got
a huge number for fourteen years, one hundred and seventy three, and the
rest of the counties are down there at about thirty thirty per county. If
you go down the Hudson Valley Westchester County where a lot of the UFO sidings
were not Westchester County. If you're getting down there where Whitley Streever had,
you know, communion and all that kind of thing, you're down in that
general area in Westchester County. They had something in the ballpark of two hundred
and eleven for the fourteen year period, which is a lot. Orange County
where Pine Bush is logged one hundred and fifty eight so I finally hold up
a county map and I'd like to go over that with you, but we're
at the top of the aar and we take a quick music break. Hang
in everyone, we'll be right back. All right, we're back and we're
talking live to Cheryl Costa, and anyone can jump in the chat room or
you can actually call in at six h three nine sixty seven four oh three.
Oh. Just let you know, Cheryl, we have a lot of
listeners, but not too many people call in. Most people will go,
you know, in the chat room and you know, pose a few questions.
We do have one up there for you, but I do want to
finish this conversation in the different counties. So now that I have my county
map, yep. So you said Long Island right off the bat, you
said that's a heavy hitter. Yes, let me let me get on to
that chart. Long Island has two counties, Nassau and Suffolk, Okay.
In the fourteen year period we were sampling nineteen ninety nine to twenty fourteen.
Actually it's a fifteen year window. Nasau, which is closer to New York
City, had two hundred and eighty six sightings. This is combined data,
most national UFO and MUFAN data combined data, and Suffolk County had five hundred
and forty one. Wow, that is big. That is huge. It's
the biggest in the state. Now, when you were going through all this
data, did you see anything that made any sense in any type of way,
like where a body of water was, say the ocean or you mentioned
the lakes. Did you see any counties that had similar things going on that
you could connect the dots and see why there were so many sightings hotspots?
No, nope, not at all. I pulled my hair out for three
months. I had other people look at it. I shared PDF charts with
some of the other uphiologists. Everybody was pulling their hair out. Nothing,
nothing worked. Then I got a hold of Ben Moss. I met him
at the He's a movefon guy. People see him on hangar one. He's
the chief move on investigator for State of Virginia. And I rode the shuttle
bus in from the airport to go to the International Foundation of the International UFO
Congress conference and him and I got to be We shared a drink or two,
and I called him up and I said, hey, Ben, I
got a problem here, you know, sending down a chart. You looked
at it, and I told them all the different things we looked at nothing
nothing, nothing lined up, he said, asked me if I could find
a map of ancient tribal land. Did a little research. Found something we
overload overlaid our sighting chart of you know, you know, basically it looked
like a little big stars where they were, where all the hotspots were,
and it lined up over top of all of the ancient Native American territories.
Wow, so that is the only thing we could correlate. Now that said,
I have to tell you what my science librarian spouse has to say.
Correlation does not necessarily mean causality. But it was. That was the only
thing that we found that correlated consistently. The only other thing that was maybe
somewhat correlated was Yes, if you looked at all the stars over top of
a blank manth in New York City estate, it looked like it followed across
the across the Erie Canal from Buffalo all the way to Albany and all the
way down Sutson On first clients, that looked like it was following the population
centers, but not completely. There were counties that were off by themselves,
off the main track of things, not on the New York State through way,
not on the Erie Canal that had heavy hitter numbers, and for that
matter, so was so was Long Island. They had two of the highest
months of sightings and they weren't weren't near one of these things. In fact,
they've gotten actually relatively low population per citing than any place in New York
State. I was kind of surprised. I was out in Long Island just
a few weeks ago and and drove right out to the east. I believe
I do you happen to have the live show on your computer? I'm getting
feedback? No, I don't, Okay, I'm just hearing feedback. I
don't know if it might maybe coming through your phone, it might be bouncing
off my wall. I don't know. Yeah, I'll get to I'll get
to buy some furniture real suck up some of the bounce. Sorry about that,
listener, Okay, so you know I lost my train of thought.
It's terrible. Uh, what we're telling me about someplace you were traveling?
Oh? Yeah, yeah, I was out in Long Island East and went
to take the ferry north we have a call coming in. Oh I just
missed the call. Sorry caller. If you can hear me, please try
to call back. I just missed your call. Sorry about that. Please
try again again. Okay. So I was traveling out to take the ferry
and I noticed there was there was a lot of land. You know,
I always thought it was like heavily populated, but it's not out toward the
east, so it's it's pretty rural out there. It really is, which
really surprised me because it's not that many hours away from New York City and
you just expect that people would populate it. So go ahead. I'm just
gonna say again, sorry, mister caller, you can try again. Six
O three nine six seven. Here it is, Hello there, caller.
All right, It's Chris in Pennsylvania. And I just wanted to throw something
out there. You guys were talking about sighting in counties that didn't necessarily have
a high population, and I was wondering if you took into consideration people who
live in the city, primarily who have never been upstate where there's no light
pollution, maybe in awe of all the stars that you can see in the
sky, it's it's such a huge contrast that that may I don't know,
that may cause some people to report sightings they're just gfstars that never saw before.
That's possible, that is possible. But amazingly enough, New York City
averages, they average a lot of sightings. In fact, on raw numbers
they sum, it appears like they're the number one place for sightings in New
York State. If you combine all five boroughs of New York all five towns
of New York City together, it looks like a huge number. But if
you break it down by county, give example, New York County of New
York, of New York City actually has less sightings than Albany, New York
does. Wow, that's surprising, you know, with all the light pollutions.
Yeah, that's what's interesting that they have some rather bizarre sightings down there.
You know. It's almost as if the the UFOs are coming there to
hang out, because there are bizarre people there, you know. Whatever,
it's a kind of Unpolitan place. As they say that, the people have
reported something amazing sightings where people would see a light come in from the ocean
and they thought it was an airplane and then the next thing you know,
they saw it looked like it went down Howard and went down into Central Park,
things like that. You know, well that's the other thing. You
know, there's a number of airports right there, you know, right around
New York City. People maybe seeing landing lights. That is you do hear
about that, the landing lights even off of Long Island. I think I've
heard that. People can you know, they see the light coming in,
really bright, bright coming in and it's just patterns of landing. So I
imagine there is some portion of the sightings that's that's just a guess. So
well, actually there's a formula that you can crank the numbers through this formula
and breaks it down to like three percent. Our hopes is five percent are
crazy people thirty percent or clouds birds? You know they've got this number.
But about all most uifoologists hold that about twenty percent are there of the totally
unexplained and really really out there quality and in the numbers we were working with
with this chart, about forty six hundred forty seven sightings over fourteen years or
fifteen years, about twenty percent of that falls into that category, which is
when you think about it around coming up about almost one thousand sightings over a
fifteen year window. Are of the unexplained variety? Is that it? Chris,
You're all set? Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Thanks, all
right, thanks going, Chris. Yeah, thanks for calling in. Okay,
all right, So the question we had up on the message board for
you, Cheryl was are you also an experiencer? Have you had any abduction
accounts? That's what someone's asking on the message board. That's really personal information
to ask. Okay, so it's something information if I was, or was
if I'm not. I have had the opportunity to sit with the experiencers,
and I've heard some very very very amazing accounts. But I gave them my
word I would not talk about it and I would not write about it.
It was the only it was the only way I could make a condition that
I could come in and sit in with them. But I'll give you a
flavor or something with it. When we were at the convention, they had
restriction the press couldn't come in, But like I said, I made an
arrangement with them that I would just come in and observe, but I would
not write about it. Oh okay, let my press pass away. I
expected to go in and find maybe fifteen, twenty, maybe fifty people in
there. There was close to two hundred people in There's that right. Wow.
Now the person was asking that on the message board, if you talk
about yourself being an experiencer, that was the question. Oh that I had
talked about myself as an experiencer, Yeah, that was the question. This
is someone that that had met you at one time and maybe misunderstood something I
don't know. Okay, okay, let us say this. I have had.
I have had a total of ten UFO sightings in my life. Wow,
that's a lot. I have had two of what I will call the
verifiable kind and the issue. People say, well, there's no such thing,
and I'll say, well, I've seen the real thing. I can't
get into it. I have no proof, I have no photographs other than
when I'm just what I just told you. I've seen the real thing.
So I can't tell you more than that. Well, I feel I feel
the same way you know my I had a sighting in that I feel that
had to be, you know, something not made here in this earth.
So that's that's how I feel about what I had. But let's change gears
here and I want. While we're on the experimental subject, I did interview
two what I'm going to call retirement age women here in my county of Onondaga
County, and this past summer, they had come back from the lake or
something like that. They'd been there for like about a week, and they
came home and they were bringing in their stuff from the car and one of
the two women went downstairs into her cellar. As she was going down the
stairs, she let out a scream. The other woman had a mental flash
of a short, bald man in a blue jumpsuit in her mind when she
ran over to see what was going on with the other woman. The other
woman was literally on the landing of the stairs, scared, and it looked
like back flying around her. But they weren't danced, but it looked like
dans. Wow. I think you wrote an article on that, didn't you.
Yes? I did, Yes, I did. And when we were
at the International UFO Congress last year, there was a guy there I don't
remember, mcchellan I think is his name. He did a presentation about that
phenomena where the grays sometimes project mental images into and touch our archetypes in our
brain and make us think we're seeing owls, right, that type of think,
Well, that's also our archetype. Uh huh. I sat in with
this gentleman that does a whole talk on owls and it was actually pretty fascinating
and it's amazing. It's an amazing conversation. Because I sat in on this
one presentation, it just blew my fox off. Could be the same guy.
This was up, This was up in Maine. But the irony of
the whole thing is there was an owl outside of my window the night before
first time, and it was hooting. It kept me awake. It was
just ironic. This guy, this guy Mitchellan did uh. He was given
to talk about how the archetypes work and all that sort of thing. And
what was interesting was he cut out. Uh. He said that this is
He told the story of this one woman who was running down a path to
to see where this bright ufo thing went. And then she was getting down
the path, her first saw she saw a gray. She saw a little
gray thend in there, and there was this impression in her mind that the
gray was going ow ow owl. Suddenly what she thought she saw was this
four foot owl sitting there on the path. So he had a current bird
cutout of what a four foot looking four foot owl looked like, and he
had us up there on stage, and you know, he says a segment
scared a hell out of me, you know. Ah, yeah, Okay,
So it is Mike McClellan. Yes, Yes, that's the guy.
Yep. Yeah. Someone in the message board just brought up his name.
That's yeah. I listened to his talk. It was really quite amazing,
really made you think so excellent. So I wanted to go back to the
question I asked you in the last hour. Was you talk or have talked
about early sightings? And that's that's what I'd like to talk about, historical
sightings that were maybe up to two hundred years old. Yeah, yeah,
I'd love to talk about that. Yeah. How did you research this and
what did you find? Well, initially I was crawling through this is long
before I thought about writing a column, okay, And it started briefly.
Okay, let me go back a step here. In twenty twelve, I
was reading I think was a mere USA Today or CNN dot com or something
like that, and I saw this little sidebar story that said that, oh
UFO reports have been on the decline and maybe they were all just an urban
legend. Anyway, and this is in twenty twelve. I'm going, wait
a minute, that doesn't sound right now again, Remember I'm not really the
serious ufoificiano. I've been following it most of my life, but I wasn't
exactly somebody out there advocating. So I went out to the mouf on database
and I started crawling around, and I started playing with some numbers, and
when I was at the convention, I showed a chart and it showed this
barge heart of drastically increasing sightings as time got closer, from say nineteen fifties
right up to now. And I put that slight up and my comment to
the audience is what memo didn't the UFO get? We were going from almost
nothing to hundreds and hundreds of them, you know. So this is what
got me going. This got me going around to newspaper editors saying, we
ought to write a column about this. It would be a hot topic,
it would go viral for your paper. And I got laughed out of about
twelve or thirteen offices until I met Larry dietrich over at the Syracuse New Times,
and he was sympathetic to topic, and apparently he had read a lot
of books, because we sat there in the interview talking about it, and
he was talking about certain authors that I had read in high school. So
I started writing articles, and that forced me to go into both the National
UFO Data Reporting Center's database and the move On database and just call around for
older accounts. And there's also a lot of good books out there. Preston
Dentson, he wrote a really good book about New York State UFO stings.
He had had it from like a lot of news clippings and things like this,
and his reference to his book and those frequently would give me the information
I needed to go back into one of the databases and maybe research at someplace
else, okay, and get kind of a second thing. Well, there
was a guy, there was a researcher found a reference and a baptismal certificate,
our baptismal record for a church down in the New York City area from
In one case, this one was from the eighteen sixty time frame, a
woman saw a bright burning cross in the sky. Oh, I think I've
heard this one before. You know, it may have been in I bet
it was in Phoenix. When I listened to you talk, it might have
been, but for your listeners, what happened was the guy that the modern
researcher went and looked at the newspapers from that area. You got to remember
eighteen sixty eighteen sixty one, there were no flying machines right. Well,
in this lady was in a place in New York City called five Points.
It's down kind of close to what we would now call Wall Street, very
very notorious piece of area, and at that time a lot of immigrants,
a lot of poor immigrants. It was. It was a rather if you
look, if you saw the movie Gangs of New York, that was five
Points. Okay, Well, this woman about midnight looked out of an attic
apartment that she lived in, Missus Baxter, and she looked out and she
saw she thought to be a flaming cross in the sky. Well, the
modern researcher found out on the same vector there was a block size fire,
several warehouses and a bunch of folly light light industrial buildings out of block member
buildings in those days were all pretty much wood. It went up. It
was a block sized fire, city, block sized fire, and the only
thing the researcher could figure was there had to be a say, a cross
shaped UFO melted metal hall, thinking almost like an airplane hovering above the city,
and the flames were reselecting off the hall. Wow, I was thinking
you were going a different way with this. I was thinking somehow it was
going to come up that it had to do with the fire itself. No,
no, the sighting. No, there's no correlation to that. Eighteen
seventy nine, this was a New Jersey report, but I kept it because
there it had New York City implications. A New Jersey astronomer saw an army
object parked over remember eighteen seventy now parked over New York Harbor. Now there's
most of the shoots at that time were mastered sailing ships still still at that
point, and it was parked. He took measurements and everything. Of course,
he went to the Times with it, and they ignored him. And
New York Times has been good about ignoring UFO reporse for years and just over
one hundred years. But another paper in town that's now defunct did publish his
letter to the editor. His same letter to the editor was also published about
a month or two later in Scientific American. Well other people came out of
the woodwork that were astronomers from up a little bit further up to Hudson and
Long Island and in Connecticut, and they hit similar measurements and when they put
all their numbers together they estimate this. They estimate that it was at one
hundred and two miles hovering one hundred and two miles, so that is not
geosynchronous orbit, so that it had to be moving at a very very very
very fast rate of speed in order to maintain that position. Okay, one
hundred and two miles, it's not a synchronous orbit. And they also estimate
from all the measurements that it was a half a mile in diameter, and
apparently they feel that it was just parked over the city studying, you know,
anthropology type things, studying the culture. Now, the oldest sighting in
New York State is from seventeen ninety wow and ends up with Scalaria County.
It's a little south of Albany, and it was a Dutch settler and it
was in the middle of summer and he was on his porch playing his fiddle
around sunset, and he started hearing a very very loud, roaring sound and
a bright light coming from the north. It came down a couple hundred yards
from his house. He said it was maybe one hundred yards long. It
was tapered like a snake. Its front end or what moved like the front
end kind of looked like a tree that had been uprooted. I tell people,
if you hang your hand out there and make like a little claw it,
that's kind of what he probably saw, you know. And he said
it was a red hot sparking like a welding iron, which in those days,
a welding iron was something you put in the fire to weld a scene
with lead or something like that. And it hovered above the ground, about
three or four feet above the ground, and it moved at the speed of
a galloping horse. It met a little local hill, it went up over
the hill, and at last he saw that it had gone over the hill,
but it maintained its height above the ground when it meant the hill.
He swore it out in the county seat of Carlisle. Two years later.
Wow, wow, that is that's quite quite the story there. Now.
I'm wondering if you know, we talked today about people getting ridicule for talking
about this. You wonder what happened back then, you know, because it's
so out of this world type of thing, and especially since they're not happening
a lot, you know, you wonder what happened? Well, people didn't.
People usually after they called a meteor because he didn't know what else to
call it. Okay, there was another sighting in eighteen sixty one in New
York City actually started the sightings, and you're gonna love this. The sighting
actually started. I was noticed up around Albany and New York. There were
two glowing what they call them fireballs or meteors, flying down to the sky
when it got over New York City. The reporters that reported it said it
was unusual because you know when you see like a meteor, it's like,
oh, look at that. You know it's gone right. They said it
was in the sky from horizon to horizon for over a minute, well a
window at night time and just around just after sun. Said that horizon is
about sixteen miles from side to side, your visible range. Okay, Well,
we had paid. We had news clippings that take it all the way
back. They have reported the same thing being reported in Philly, being reported
in Washington, d C being reported in Norfolk, Virginia, where they lost
sight of it as it flew into a cod bank. These two balls of
fire, so to speak. Okay, Well, we sat down and we
calculated that window that took over a minute for fly bygh in New York City.
And we also looked at the time that they reported seeing in Albany,
in New York, in Philly, in Washington, and in Norfolk, and
we estimated to have been flying somewhere between fifteen hundred and three thousand miles an
hour. We learned a couple of years ago in Russia that the meteor that
came in over the Northern Russia there came in at fifty thousand miles an hour.
And that's about the speed they do come in at. Something comes in
at fifteen you know, our modern jets fly at fifteen hundred and three thousand
miles an hour. That is the speed of like a re entry vehicle in
the high atmosphere, right, Okay. And that's the point that I put
into one of my articles that when we did the analysis, that I believe
that the sighting was an entry, an atmospheric entry event for something huh wow.
And it's funny how all those people along the coast down to would you
say, Carolinas down to Norfolk, Virginia. Yeah, Virginia. Yeah,
at the southern end of Virginia, Norfolk, Virginia, and that's north of
the Carolinas. Yeah. Uh huh. We have au Ryan Uh. Sprague
is in the chat room. He says, Hi, Hi Ryan, And
Ryan does a uh he does a show that you'll well, the link is
not working. Ryan, Why don't you type in the name of your show
and when it is and I'll announce that and uh so, if anyone wants
to jump in the chat room, all you have to do is go to
podcast ufo dot com and if anyone would like to call in, it's six
o three nine six seven four oh three. Oh. Now you were talking
about, you know, people being ridiculed. People didn't really seriously get ridiculed
about this stuff until Projects Sign that in the late forties when the military and
the government was trying to hush it up a bit. Okay, before Project
Blue Book and all that, they were really trying to hush it up and
make people out to be crazy or discredit them. Things exist, and that
was kind of where our modern culture gets the idea of you don't want to
talk about that, don't let anybody know about that. You know that kind
of intelience. You wouldn't believe how many people that I interview that say,
well, when we saw it, we told our parents and they told us
not to tell anybody. You know, but you know it. Basically,
since I've had my column, I've had people invite me over for a backyard
barbecue and here, have a glass of lemonade and stelling our uncle Ralph here,
he's got a story to tell you. And you can always tell the
ones that are really genuine. They start to tell you the story, it's
like a case of PTSD. You can see it and rise they're there again.
That's the weird thing about UFO settings. When you remember when it stays
with you the rest of your life. Right, No, I'm there with
you from experience myself. So anyway, going back, it's into the Fray.
That's Ryan Sprague's show, and I'm having trouble opening the website. I
was going to announce the time and everything it's on. But anyway, Ryan's
are really here. It's Thursdays. Ryan's a great guy. Thursdays at seven
pm. PST and which is ten pm Eastern Standard time. Yeah. Ryan
mentioned earlier on the chat room that he would love to speak at one of
the conventions if you ever put one together. I have every He's on my
list of possible guys to invite. I'd like to do the first little mini
convention we do. If we do one up here, we'd like to use
strictly New York State uphilologist for the first one. We've got a lot of
great talent here in New York, and I've talked to a bunch of people
who said that they would love to come and do a thing like that.
So, yeah, Ryan, I'll keep you in mind. Yeah, I
think he's right in the city. Actually. So we were talking about locations
and different counties and things like that, and we had a message up on
the chat room that someone wanted to ask you what the other heavily reported areas
were in the Okay, the nine heavy hitters. Okay, I'm sorry,
he was talking about other than New York. Oh okay, hang on just
one second, if you would sure, Hello Coller, please identify yourself and
ask you a question. Oh yes, thanks, Brandon, I'm from Boston,
Massachusetts. Oh, hi, Brandon Hi just listening to the show,
if I was fascinating, I was just wondering what the maps show in terms
of New England UFO phenomenon and what the most settings experiences were in that region
where I come from. Okay, Actually, I put there's a there's a
group on Facebook called the Greater New England UFO Conference, and I put a
chart up this morning for them, and basically it was the New York It
was one of my charts for New England based on some other study work I'm
doing. I've got the five states. I've got Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine,
New Hampshire, Vermont, and Rhode Island. Okay, during the study
window of fifteen years, which is nineteen ninety nine to twenty fourteen, Massachusetts
had thirteen one hundred eighty six, Connecticut had nine hundred and sixty two.
Maine had five hundred and eighty eight. When you consider how small Maine in
that Maine is, that's a lot. I'm sure I had five hundred and
fifty seven, Vermont had three hundred and thirty four, and Rhode Island had
two hundred and ninety five. Now what happened is after I put that up
on the list. I had people come back to me and say, hey,
what about Massachusetts. Was there any particular year that was a heavy hitter
year? So I put another chart up in that conference room this evening,
Massachusetts. The thirteen hundred and eighty six UFO sightings for the study period in
Massachusetts average from in nineteen ninety nine thirty one reported sightings, and it kind
of ramps up up to about one hundred and five in twenty eleven, and
then it spikes in twenty twelve, and at that point it goes up one
hundred and fifty five, one hundred and ninety five, hundred and ninety seven
twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, respectively. That's me, is there any particular
county or the job So I don't have county data for at the present time.
I don't have county data for rough Massachusetts. At some point I'm trying
to do a complete study for the Massachusetts, for all the counties in New
England and figure out what their hotspots are. But the crunching the data is
a little difficult. I have to look it all up for the national UFO
Reporting database, and I have to talk move on into sending me spreadsheets.
That spreadsheet is sending me spreadsheet data that I can suck into my database and
crunch. So these things take time to do. Absolutely, thank you for
taking my call. Thank you, Brandon. Thanks, good night, good
night. Now you know I messed up a little bit on the question that
I asked, and since we're on the similar topic, I'll read it verbatim
here. So as you mentioned earlier that the US has roughly five percent of
total sightings. Where else in the world are big hotspots? And why if
you have a ferry? Okay, it was not the USS five percent.
New York State has five percent of the world sightings. Oh wow, that's
pretty high. Yeah, it is New York State. Actually the United States.
The number. I did a really rough count some time back for an
article, and the argument that I made in one of my article was,
Okay, North America we had about in that same fourteen year window nineteen ninety
nine to twenty fourteen, we had about sixty five thousand sightings in North America
logged. Okay, And then I was showing the numbers for the top ten
states and I broke that down. New York State had it's forty six forty
seven or whatever, and that that was the flavor. I was trying to
make a point in one of my articles that there's a lot more going on
than we're being told, and it was that was the case of my article,
there's a lot going on out there. I have people tell me all
the time, Oh, there can't be that much going on. Well there
is so. And that's another reason why I've started doing not just New York
State since they started writing for slantnews dot com, I've started doing studies of
other states. Yeah. Someone was just just put up on the message board.
They wanted to know, like, for instance, if you know what
the top ten states were as far as sightings. Yeah, yeah, I
can tell you that in twenty seconds. There, can you say it?
Here? The top ten states are. I'm just going to move back up
to the screen. Here it is, Oh coool, I'll bring it up
momentarily. Sure, anyone could call in if they have a question. That's
at six three nine six seven four o three. Oh. You can also
ask a question in the chat room and just have to go over to podcastufo
dot com. Okay, I'll have this momentarily. Top ten States. Actually,
it starts out with California. There's there's was huge, right. It's
a big, long state with a lot of people and a lot of nice
weather. A lot of people outside. A lot people say that too.
But you know, I had one guy tell me he said, the oh,
well, California is easy because they have all the they have the they
have all the testing of all the special aircraft and all that stuff you know
coming out of the skunk where you know, Lockheed skunk Works and all that
kind of stuff. And that's that's a definite possibility. Okay. For the
fourteen years fifteen year sighting, I keep saying fourteen years, I really mean
fifteen years, citing data for the top ten states. The key thing this
is national UFO reporting data only does not include move on. If it did
include move on, the numbers would probably be close to double. Okay,
But the raw numbers from National UFO Reporting Center database in California had for the
fifteen years nine thousand, three hundred and fifty sightings. The next one was
Florida forty six hundred and thirty one sightings. Washington State always has been a
heavy hitter, okay, since the forties has been a heavy hitter. Forty
one hundred eighty four sightings Texas thirty six sixty six New York. Again,
this is raw data. You've heard me say forty six hundred sightings. That
was combined data, but the raw number from National Youthful Reporting Centers thirty one
hundred eleven sightings. Arizona is the next one at twenty eight to fifty,
Pennsylvania twenty six thirty nine, Illinois twenty six oh five, Ohio of twenty
four ninety seven, and Michigan at nineteen eighty. Wow, I had that
when I put that up. When I put that up, I had a
couple of people from Nevada say, hey, we have all kinds of anxieties.
Why aren't we a heavy hitter? You know. Then when I started
talking to the guys, we we see him so often, we don't bother
to report them. So I mean, if you don't log I mean,
you know, we're not going to count them. Yeah. It's kind of
funny the way you just said that, because I think that there is a
bit of that going on, people saying, well, you know, it's
it's not that big of a deal, you know, like in a hotspot
or something. You know, people were saying, well, you know,
we see these things all the time, so it's not that kind of like
makes people have that outlook if if they see a lot going on, I
would I would imagine at you know, well, it's it's it's goofy.
Because I had a guy today tell me bumped up to me at work and
he says, do you write that column? You know? And I said
yeah, and I told him he says, and he said, well,
I think they're all on drugs. And I said, well, if he
cranked that back against the standard formula, that's twenty five percent. All of
that standard formula takes all of that into account. Uh huh, atmospheric conditions,
stars, clouds, birds, psych issues, hoaxes, mis misidentification of
other aircraft. It's all taken into account in this think. This has been
thought up by some very very sharp investigators. I just used the formula.
H wow. I like that actually, you know, because it's something you
can actually fall back on when someone says something like that. And if you
really want to get conservative, you know, the ufiologists, all the serious
researchers that I met I've met at the conventions, would tell you about twenty
percent. And these are usually the investigators will tell you this. But if
you really want to get conservative and take knocked that number down to five percent,
it's still a really serious number. Absolutely. One of the things we
were talking earlier. Now, I know we're bouncing back and forth, but
when you were talking about the earlier, you know, the early historical sightings
that you're finding in newspaper clippings, do you think that someone will actually undertake
Has anyone ever talked about undertaking that type of situation nationally, you know,
looking at clippings for sightings. Has anyone been working on that? No,
Let's tell you, well, yes there was, and let me explain how
that worked. There was one guy, can't remember his name. He was
back in the sixties. He wrote a paper for the old Nightcap organization.
Okay. This guy was a professional actor okay, and he was traveled in
road shows okay. And what he did was a little pet project of his.
And remember this is well before in the sixth early sixties. This was
well before the internet, okay. And what he did was whenever he was
in a town. Remember, an actor would be performing in the evening,
so he pretty much had his afternoons free. So he would go through the
library and he would go through their stacks, and he would also go through
their their back issues of newspapers, microfilm if they had that type of thing,
looking for UFO citing reports, okay, And he did it to a
very specific window of time, did it for about a month's worth of dates
from about middle of June nineteen forty seven to about late July nineteen forty seven.
And it's a rather really it's a very very very good report off the
air. If you give me an email address, if I've got the PDF
somewhere in my computer, I'll shoot you a copy of it. Okay.
But the deal is, you know, a lot of the Upper Table channels
they talk about they'll start talking about UFO, some of these programs you see,
you know, and they always make it sound like it all started with
Roswell, right, you know. And Roswell was only a symptom of a
bigger set of sightings that were going on for about a month around the same
time that Roswell happened, Okay. And it wasn't until like the late seventies,
when Jesse Marcel spilled the beans to Stanton Friedman, did we really have
the current understanding of the Roswell cash because back in nineteen forty seven just weather
balloon Threshol said okay, nothing here by, you know, and that was
it all right now if there was anything that was ever telling. So when
you read this guy's paper in the mid nineteen sixties, of all of the
sighting reports that went on during that window of time, there were like some
seven hundred sightings in a period. There was a bigger number than that.
But the peak of the sighting window was in the week of about the late
about late June, hm, the late June. And there have been many
theories. Is said that the UFO crash in Roswell and the other one that
was quite a distance away. I think it was a roar. I'm not
positive happened at the same time. And that lens some you know, people
say that might learn some credence with. But I think what was telling to
me was I got a friend of mine's member of the Civil Air Patrol,
and an airplane goes down. Everybody goes out there and beats the bushes and
flies around there looking for these guys. Right. Well, I looked at
this chart, I looked at the dates. I knew what was being reported
in the paper. I know when the roswell thing hit the paper, it
was an issue for one day the news, okay. And I looked at
the thing and I said, oh my god, starship down, this is
all those settings. Was probably a freaking glack take rescue, you know the
way I looked at it, because I said, why, my god,
look at all these sudden Why would they suddenly all be here? Okay?
And the majority of them were a lot of them. There were a lot
of them in the Southwest, but there was a huge amount of them in
the state of Washington. Well, I never knew that. Well, I
knew the first, you know, you heard Kenneth Arnold of course, in
the Cascades in Washington, but I never knew there was a lot of other
ones. There's a there's an article if you look in the New York Times
from a day or two before the Actually, I want to say, it's
almost a week. It's almost a week before the roswell story comes out,
okay. And they've got reports of these flying saucers. This came out with
with Ken Arnold around the twenty fourth of June. And they've got reports of
these things coming in on the Associated Press from thirty eight states, okay,
And there's a front page news clipping. There's talking to a particular General Carl
I think it was Stafford, I don't remember it off the top of my
head. And he was questioned by the news guys. Okay, remember in
those days, they all, you know, would all run up with their
pads and all that kind of stuff and hey, general television ball the flashballs,
you got it? And they asked him. He says, hey,
what about all these This guy was like the head of the Army Air Corps
at the time, it hadn't become the Air Force yet, and they asked
him about it, and he said, oh, guys, I've been out
of touch with everything. I've been up in Washington State fishing. Well.
I went back with this guy's report, and I went back with the dates.
The dates of major sightings up in Washington State were the same week he
was up in Washington State, about fifty miles south of where the core of
all these sightings were. Wow. I have a presentation, a standard presentation
that I got if anybody wants to see it. And when I give the
presentation, I show those slides from that window of time only because it was
reported in the New York City newspaper. Okay, but the thing was before
what we'll call Roswell. Roswell was only about a forty eight hour issue,
and it went away very quickly because the press was told by the military,
Hey, it was just a weather balloon, right, you know, and
it wasn't then There was thirty years later before somebody spilled the beans, right,
And we talked earlier about this. If the listener out there hadn't heard,
we talk about it in the news where we had someone come forward and
actually write blog that's on our website that you can see where he was involved
with a roommate that they were discussing it in the nineteen sixties. And you
just don't hear about that, you know, you know, you always here
of nineteen eighty or nineteen seventy nine, whenever it was when it hit the
media. Well, it was Stanton Friedman's book about Roswell, and Stanton really
blew the lid off of it because Jesse Barcel had had cancer and didn't care
what were they going to do to him, you know, And so he
spilled the beans on the topic. And that's the rest is history. But
the problem I have with a lot of the modern TV shows that try to
talk smart about the UFOs, they all tend to hover in on Roswell and
there was so much else going on, but they're not doing their work,
and they're not fact checking, they're not looking at it, and they're not
talking to somebody like me. He's gone back and historically looked at all this
stuff. And I shared some of this data with Stanton Friedman and he put
me onto that paper that that actor did. Oh really, huh yeah,
because I came up with similar data, completely independent of what that guy's nineteen
sixties paper wash. And I went to Stanton with my numbers. I said,
I found this really weird pattern here. You know, all these sightings
you know, nationwide, and I was doing it from news clippings. Okay,
I mean I was spending time in the library with microfilm. That is
so time consuming. Yeah, and it's old school, you know, right.
Yeah, I've done research that way through, you know, in the
antiques and historical things that I deal with, you know, in my career,
I've actually had to do a lot of microfichi And yeah, it's not
like you can go to a search bar and search keywords or anything like that.
You have to scan the whole the whole paper. It's a lot of
works. It's nice now before the old the old microfish machines used to be
where you would print it out of some kind of screen papers, kind of
like processing a photograph. You know what they got now, which is really
terrific. You're looking at the traditional microfilm reel, but they've got an electronic
scanner looking at it. And if you plug your thumb driving as a computer
that you know that's looking at the view that's plugged into the USP port.
It's plugged into this viewer. You're capturing the the the images of these front
pages and things like this digitally and it comes out the PDF form. And
that's really really terrific, especially if you're doing any kind of research. Not
everybody has that. I happen to have access to a couple of college libraries
where they have all that stuff. So, yeah, that's pretty progressive.
That's great. So now you talked about so around nineteen forty seven that I
think was the first week in July that Roswell crass July eighth, I believe
when it was reported papers They actually think it happened probably in the in the
late part of June, right, and it was discovered and that's right when
it all came out. I think it was July eighth or something like that.
But anyway, so then you go on a little bit in time and
all of a sudden you get to nineteen fifty two and there's a huge rash
of sightings and Washington Nationals. Yes, right, that is fantastic stuff,
you know. Amazingly enough, people don't realize again, the people who do
these documentaries and talk about Roswell being all this stuff. Well, I got
a picture in my slides. I've got a picture the front cover of Life
magazine and there's this lovely picture of Marilyn Monroe standing there and there's something going
to be major spread on Marilyn Monroe. But up in the upper ranking corner
of the front page of Life magazine is a statement that says, for another
article, is there a case for interplanetary saucers? Right? This is I
know that I know that magazine, the one in particular. Yeah. And
the thing is, if you actually read the article, the Air Force was
sharing information, very accurate information. The generals were very privately sitting down with
reporters and said we're really worried about this stuff. Yeah, and then something
changed along the way the Robertson panel Robertson Yeah panel and all that. But
and that that was I think it was nineteen fifty three, and that was
just to call or calm down all the sightings. It was getting overwhelming for
the Air Force. Actually at that point it was. It was very much
so. It was getting it was getting overwhelming. They had to kind of
put down the hysteria. The other thing that was going on was that it
wasn't long after this, and again there was a lot going on. I
grew up in the sixties. I remember reading a lot of books we had.
Frank Edwards, a famous author, a newsman, came to our town,
a local. Our vocal factory hired him to come and give a talk.
And I thought there may be a couple hundred people there. There were
two thousand people in that auditorium. Wow, amazing. And this is about
I would say, this is about sixty sixty six sixty seven time frame.
I was in junior high school and I was fascinated with some of the photographs
he showed us. He had some really, really clear daylight, crisp daylight
pictures of these things. And it wasn't all that long. He was on
three years after I my first sighting, you know, so it was really
really rich for me when they got when they did the Condon report in sixty
eight, who killed it? This kind of got up there. He was
a very smart guy, the PhD kind of guy. And by right doing
the report that they did, by saying, oh, it's boloney, there's
no good substantive evidence that d D DA DA DA, and there's no reason
to put any money behind it, well, that shut off the tap.
Academically, Nobody in colleges was really going to do serious research because there would
be no money for it. Nobody in the government would do any serious research
on it because there was no money for it. Nobody at the National Academy
of Science would do this research because there was no funding for it. Because
he said in his paper, there's no legitimate reason for our government to put
any money into this, right, Okay. Now, I was working on
a master's program by her back back back back at the time of the convention,
and I had thought about working in my master's paper thesis about UFO stuff,
and i'd had people tell me, all mate, that's not a good
idea. I hate to cut you short, Cheryl, but we are out
of time. Yeah, thanks so much. It's been I will it's been
a real pleasure. Thanks so much. All right, now, everyone,
this is it for the show. I want to thank a few people out
there. First of all Keith for running the live portion of the show,
and we have Peggy Shining who helps us with our Facebook page. Remember you
can like us on Facebook for all the latest UFO news. Next week,
we have Michael Louk coming up and we have a bunch of other really good
guests coming up right after that. So that's it for the show, and
thanks for listening, and we'll be talking to you next week right here on
the Dark Matter Digital Network.