You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast,
coming to you from the heart of Pendle Witch Country in the northwest of England.
My name is Craig Bryant, author, the investigator and collector of stories.
Join me as we take a journey into the paranormal, UFO sightings,
cryptozoology and big cast. This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast. Okay, so
welcome to forty five of Paranormal Pedal, broadcasting to the Paranormal UK Network at
PAUK radio dot com. Now for this episode, if you're watching it on
YouTube, we're actually live. We're on video. We're not live, but
we're doing a actually doing a visual recording for change. It's not something that
I normally do, but it's been requested by some of my YouTube followers,
which is great. So yeah, welcome to my guests. As you can
see, Mark Colly, Mark welcome, nice to be here. Thanks for
having me. Absolutely be delighted to have you. I'm really interested to chat
to you about your book. Actually that's that you just released. You called
Europe's Roswell. But before we get into that, can you just tell me
a little bit about yourself? Okay, this is the bit I don't like
doing because it's embarrassing. I've done loads, I've done tons of stuff.
I've done television. I did a serious WRITV called Lost Treasures. I've got
nine books out in all in total, which can go find on Amazon.
The last thing I did, I think was Ancient Aliens. I was on
the season nineteen last year, so there's that. I am also in a
band. I played drums in a rock band, so you know, you
might get to see me out on the musical circuit occasionally, and I've been
doing it for a long time. That's all I can say. Professionally archaeologist,
I always go under the writer, presenter archaeologists label because that is basically
what I do. I guess if folks really want to know more, they
could just you know, tipe me into YouTube and see what little horrors they
can find out there, because I'm all over the place. Yeah, that's
basically me. What's what's your speciality then, in archaeology, what's your sort
of people? Well, I rose to the dizzy heights of site direct or
whatever, that means, you know, you get to sort of point at
things and send people around an organ eyes stuff and on all of that side
of it. So as a site director you don't get to do very much
dirt archaeology. And as I've got older, I mean, I'm far too
old now to be digging in trenches up to me and easy mud. You
know, it's not something I particularly relish doing now, but it's great ordering
the youngsters in there and getting them to dig stuff up. So yeah,
I never really got any higher than site director because I got sort of suckered
into the world of television back in the heady days of Time Team and all
that. Like I say, I had this Lost Treasures twenty two episodes over
five years for ITV Granada, which got shown on Sky. And trust me,
if you ever do TV like that, it just takes over your life.
You know, that's it. But there was you know, people see
that and you know they see the whatever ten eleven hours of TV footage we
produced, and at the end of the day, there's you know, twenty
years of field archaeology and stuff and experience that's gone into that. So it
does take a lot to produce, you know, especially something as fast moving
as that. So I've not really been down a hole recently, not since
Lockdown, but I was still down there digging, and you know, I
still research find stuff for write books. I must have ten million reports I
need to write up. You know, So, what what period do you
like, really get excited about it? Then? What was the historical period
you get excited about. Well, well, for most of the time I
did archaeology, it was the Celts. I was really keen on the Celts,
mainly because there are so many Romanists out there. Everybody's into the Romans,
and I thought, all, what about the poor fellows the Romans are
invading? You know, what about everybody else? You know? So I
kind of went off and did that. But then the Celts kind of feed
into, you know, the Arthurian period because book before this one was King
Arthur, the polychronic On and Merlin, Joseph and Arthur. So that was
all about that sort of end of the Celtic period, and then I kind
of developed into early Medieval and I sort of stopped just after the Nasty Normans
and the Crusades. I kind of stopped at the Nights Templar. So for
twelve years we were doing re enactment events, you know, costumed and all
kind of dressed up in the gear. And the last one of those we
did in twenty nineteen, so we did that for twelve years as well.
It's amazing I did that as a hobby, and I think it was more
successful than the archaeology. Well, no, I mean it's it's fascinating.
It is a fascinating suggestion, certainly. I mean, I'm really fascinated by
medieval, medieval history. My wife is a history teacher. Those people who
do follow followed the podcast for a while and listen to some interviews I had
with other people will know that Sarah is a history teacher. She doesn't tend
to do very old stuff. It's more sort of modern stuff really, but
she still has an interest and we are both very much into genealogy. We're
both very much into family trees, and on my side of the family side
of the family, I can actually follow a line which goes back to some
landowners in Yorkshire, much to my dismay being a Lancastrian, but we can
actually follow it all the way back to John of Gaunt and then obviously through
him, we go back through several kings all the way back to William the
Conqueror. So that was quite interesting to do that. I mean, obviously,
you know that's onny on a on a sort of amateur level for himself.
But but yeah, that was quite interesting. I was going to say,
I might, I might be able to pop your head with a bit
of trivia there because I I there was there was this thing, there was
there was. There was this thing when when we were doing Lost Treasures,
because everyone was convinced I was a Viking. So there was like money changing
hands, you know, as to whether I was or not. And we
had Professor Stephen Harding with us, who did Blood of the Viking, so
he was part of the team. So right in the last season, they
had to test me. And when they tested me, they found out that
I was anything but Viking. I am categorically a Central European celt That's what
I am. But that sent me off on one of these, like you
say, geneological genealogical journeys and tracing the DNA, and I managed to get
it back. You're ready for this. Akin Artan's dynasty in Egypt, I've
got sixty five percent of the same DNA that akin Artan and Tutan Carmen House
so and that can be supported by one of the medieval legends of Scotia or
Scotia that came all the way to southern Ireland in the early medieval period.
So it looks like that's where I come from. I'm sort of northern Italy,
down to Egypt, across the Spain into southern Ireland, up through Ireland
and then across into Scotland and down to Macclesfield. We finished up as we
finished up as the medieval lords of Macclesfield. That's where we were looked after
the Black Prince's warhorse, which was the equivalent to his Porsche nine eleven back
then. You know, yeah, yeah, no, I mean yeah,
it's quite funny. I actually went I went to Lancaster Castle to to have
a bit of a look around because strangely enough I'd never been. And one
of that I was telling one of the guys and he said, always said,
you were in about seven million other people are all descended from Johnagan.
So I don't don't think that's special, you know, but no, I
do think it's nice when you when you can actually see it, even though
you know you're not that particularly unique, you know, you can still see
that that line and who married who and so on, which which interesting talking
about DNA. Actually did my DNA quite quite a while ago, and we
will get to your book in a minute, by the way, but all
right, interesting, I actually did my DNA quite a few years ago,
and my DNA group is something like only about two percent. The happlog group
that I joined that I'm part of is only about two percent of the population
of the British Isles, so that the genetic markers that I are actually quite
quite rare, and my ancestors going I think they've followed them back about fifty
thousand years back to the Balkans. So that's where this this particular group that
i'm I'm part of genetically came from and came across through Central Europe and Southern
Europe, so you know, sort of through Italy and Spain and then again
up up into the into the British House. So you never know, we
might be in the same group because worldwide there's only twelve percent of DNA for
me. Yeah, and we're about fifty thousand BC as well, So you
know, your your ancestors and mine could have been sat there having a cup
of tea in a cave somewhere, you know, fifty thousand years ago.
Very possibly they might have been doing a podcast. Who knows. Yeah,
so oh yeah, fascinating that. I mean, I could talk to you
about that for hours. But let's talk about you. But then, okay,
Europe's as well. This is a subject that I know nothing about.
Mark, I'll be quite honest with you. I've done a tiny, a
little bit there, he goes, tiny, a little bit of research.
I must have it. Not an awful lot. Nineteen eighty three, Yes,
uh, Lanny and Laar? Is that Glanilla just outside aberiswythide Abiswyth?
Tell me what happened? Right? Okay? Well, the story begins with
a newspaper article a Strange Debris out of the Sky. Let me get the
date for this, absolutely correct, because it's it is in the book.
So let me just have a look for the benefit of the listeners and the
viewers. Hold on, here we go. This came out in the Sunday
Express on the twenty third of January nineteen eighty three, Strange Debris out of
the Sky, and it was by a journalist called Andrew Chapman and a friend
of Minel. Gary Rowe ran the North Wales UFO group at that time,
and he subscribed to a newspaper clipping agency who thought that this you know article
might be of some use, so they sent it to him. And in
this article it outlines how you know, something hit trees and scattered debris over
four fields on this farmer called Irwell's farm, just outside the sleepy North Wales
village of Planilla. So Gary then, being that he's in the same area
is North Wales, he gets on the blower to Irwell because he happened to
know him, and said, you know, well, what's going on?
And what Irwell said was he said he got up one morning, went out
to look at his sheep and four of these pretty sizable Welsh fields, I
mean the fields in Wales are not small. Four of these fields are covered
in debris that looked like big sheets of metal. And Tim Foyle so Irwle's
first reaction as well, it looks like a plane crash. You know,
I've had a plane crash. So he phones the police. The police say,
well, we've not had anything reported. They phoned the local air Force
base and about two or three hours later, the place looks like a scene
from a James Bond movie. They've got all these vehicles out, they've got
floodlights up, they've got metal detectors out. They're searching for these fragments all
over the place, and some of them are quite sizeable. There's big sheets
there that are sort of two meter square six foot square sheets of metal.
Anyway, Gary phones and says, can I come down and have a look.
And I was like, well, you know, they spent all day
clearing it. I went to bed because I need to get up the next
day for my sheep, and when I got up the next day, it
was all gone. He said, so you're welcome to come down and have
a look, but I don't think you're going to find anything. So a
couple of days later, Gary turns up on Uble's farm. They go out
there. There's nothing. Fields are completely cleared, absolutely no debris there at
all. And then Gary notices that the woods next door, this wooded cops
has got this huge swathe of trees cut out in it, like something's come
down and literally smashed through the top of the trees. So Gary gets his
little team together. His mates have come with him he says, right,
we're going in the woods. You can seawhere to look because you can see
where the damage is, and we'll see what we can find. There's no
way they're going to get everything out of the woods in the middle of the
night, so you know, we'll have a look. Anyway, they got
six pieces of metal, two pieces of what appear to be foil, and
then a couple of tiny fragments out of this wooded area. Anyway, then
the story rumbles on. It starts get a bit more mysterious. Then Gary
then says, can we come back? I will says yes, He comes
back, He doesn't find anything, so he's now had two visits. He
decides he's going to come back for a third visit, and then he gets
a phone call off Irwell and Irwell says, there's no point you're coming back.
Gary says, why is that? He said, well, they're removing
the woods. The Forestry Commission have come in with heavy duty you know,
machinery and they're taking the woods away. So Gary phones up the local you
know forestry commission and says, what you're playing at The guy on the other
end says, well, we're taking the woods away because of wind damage.
And Gary's like, do you normally take a whole forest away because they're in
damage? And the guy on the other end, you know, Gary says
he's sure, he was smiling, said no, but in this case we
are. So that leaves Gary then with these fragments. Don't me to carry
on because it's a long story. I mean, yeah, please do.
It's fascinating. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah. Well, from a
youthologis point of view, it kind of it ramps up a little bit at
this point because a couple of weeks later, he gets a knock on the
door, you know, and he goes to answer his door and he can
see through the glass there's two black figures stood there. So he's ready for
this, so he opens the door. Sure enough, it's two men in
black, black suits, you know, black hats, black glasses, you
know, incomprehensible military looking passes. Gary glances up the close and there are
two black SUVs you know, with the windows blacked out, no number plate.
And these guys basically say to Gary, they say, well, you
know, can we have our material back? And we have the fragments you've
got back? And Gary's like, nope, you're a bit late, boys,
And they're like, what do you mean. He says, well,
what I've done is, he says, I've broken one of these pieces up
into little, tiny fragments. I've put them into key rings, and I've
handed the key rings out to everybody I know who's connected to the media.
And he said, if you ever come looking for this material again or knock
on my door again, I'm going to phone them all up and tell them
to release the material to the media. Now you've got to bear in mind
this is in the nineteen eighties as well, so you know, this kind
of stuff, this story, this kind of material is not in circulation.
So these guys basically just shuffled off in silence, got into the vehicles,
drove off and were never seen again. But the twist in that is they
must have known that Gary had got something out of the woods. So they're
clearly watching the crash site and they knew where he lived, right of course.
So you've got to kind of you know, gets a bit dark there,
gets a bit sinister. So there we are the men in black thing.
Obviously, is it's something that that you know is a running theme,
isn't it through through these sort of cases. I mean, I remember reading
a case on the moors over Bolton where the Murphy case, and there was
there was I think it was Steve Mihror who who investigated that, and he
wrote that he was followed by as you described, you know, sort of
blacked out four by four land rover men inside, you know, with with
the suits and the dark glasses. You know, you typically and and it's
funny, isn't it. How how when you say Men in Black, you
automatically think of the film, don't you, And you think, you know,
you think of Will Smith and you and they are dressed in exactly that
way, aren't they. It's it's almost as if somebody in Hollywood was either
told this is how you portray them, because you know, we're sort of
trying to get people used to the idea that these people exist, or it
was just a pure coincidence that they decided to dress them in such a way
that these people have been dressing for all these years. I don't think it's
a coincidence because Men in Black one, the first film, started off as
a cartoon strip, you know, and people that do cartoon books, especially
in the States, are known to get really edgy with the content. You
know, some of the some of the cult cartoon strip books are quite dark
and they're quite deep. So I think that's where that actually originates, you
know, the idea of you know, protecting the Earth from the scum of
the universe. You know, it's funny they just sort of pop up though,
isn't it. You know, these sort of these sort of things.
I mean with regards to this material that he got, then, was there
ever any sort of analysis done on it, any metal urga or anything like
that, or well, yes, there's been three sets of tests, and
we've loosely called them UK, USA and Australia, and that's roughly the three
sets of tests. The UK one he had some friends in the aerospace industry
and he took the pieces around and there was a couple of ladies that did
up aircraft, a couple of guys that worked in the military who looked after
air aircraft, and they looked at the material and they said, well,
British air Space, why don't you take it to British airspace to see what
they say. So back in the nineteen eighties, that's what we did.
Took it to British air Space, British Airspace looked at it and they said,
well, we've never seen anything like this. We don't know what half
of the stuff is because it's like there's a green rubbery coating, there's resin,
and there's a metal sort of center core if you like. And they
said, we can't. You know, it cost us thousands of pounds to
analyze it because it would have done back in the nineteen eighties. And they
said, but in our opinion, it's duralamin. It's a form of aluminium
which has been around since ships, you know, between the First and Second
World War. They've had this gialment. It's a bit like a trade name
as well. It's like McDonald's or Coca Cola or whatever it's it's just a
trade name for about two hundred different types of aluminium, which you know,
it was kind of helpful, but kind of not helpful if you know where
I'm coming from. So then the publisher, Philip, when we came to
do the book, you know, we put the whole book together. It
was ready in January, and then Philip said, well, why don't we
have another go, you know, why don't we ask Gary see if he's
got any samples he can send us, at which point I'm like, you'll
be lucky if he sends you anything. You know, he's super, super
super protective of the material, doesn't keep it at this house, keeps it
in a you know, a lockcase and a lock up, you know,
safely deposited away. Obviously, he doesn't want to lose it, doesn't want
it taken. So anyway, the Philip gets on the on the emails to
Gary. Anyway, a few days later he gets a couple of pieces of
the material in a jiffy bag through the post. So we're like, yeah,
we can do it. So we did the new analysis. We blind
sent one to Australia and blind sent another one to United States. Didn't tell
either lab what we'd done. Yeah, and of course me and Gary are
like, well, this'll sort it out, you know, we'll find out
exactly what it is. They'll tell us that, you know, that'll be
it. Anyway, the first one back was the Australian one, and what
they said is unfortunately British Airspace were wrong. It's not alaminum as in gyalamin
it's aluminum foam, which is what they do nowadays. They mix two materials
together, one of them being aluminum, and it phaes and then it goes
hard at room temperature, so you end up with a metal that is super
strong, super hard, but doesn't weigh anything right, very very light because
of the air air bubbles and yeah, it gives it that kind of like
really yeah, but in miniature. And the British Airspace has already said the
green paint on this stuff was non aerodynamic and they hadn't managed to identify the
glue, but the Australian's voiced the opinion that this was an American type of
glue, so that made it look like it was one of ours. About
five days later we get through the American analysis and we opened Darrow up and
basically the first thing it says on the first page is material unknown. Okay,
So we're like, oh, okay, and they go on to describe
a completely different material. So it looks like we'd assume that all the crash
debris was the same stuff, but it's not. There are two different things.
Is the aluminium stuff and the stuff that came back from the States is
lantheum lanthanum, which is an exotic type of rare earth metal. It's incredibly
difficult to get out. It's extremely expensive. You took in tens of thousands
of dollars to get this extracted and do something with it. But what's important
is this is a material with all this weird green rubbery hexagons all over it.
And there were sheets of this stuff that were, as I said earlier,
six foot two meters square. And this material is phenomenally expensive. Now
it's not rare. It's everywhere. It's twenty seventh most common material on the
planet. You know, it's in everything from mud to you name it.
But at the end of the day, it's also in the upper atmosphere.
It's in stars, it's in galaxies, it's in comets, it's in meteorites.
You know, it's all over the place. So that then sort of
put the cat among the pigeons. And the most important thing is that the
Americans didn't identify the adhesive, right, so it's clearly not an American adhesive
because that would have been the first thing they would have got, you know.
So, yeah, we know what it is because we produce it exactly.
It's so now it's beginning to sound like it's not one of ours,
it's one of theirs. However, there's somewhere in the middle. We've got
three alternatives. In the book. I just briefly mentioned these, but we
now come down on one of three alternatives. Either it's a man made piece
of super technology, in which case, where did it come from? And
what the hell was it doing flying around in nineteen eighty three. They didn't
have aluminium phone back then. You know, lantheum was unheard of. This
is super super technology, but it could be it could be you know,
an American experimental vehicle of some kind, or you know, something that crashed.
Then you got the other extreme. You could say, Okay, it's
alien. It's an alien thing because the aliens have only got the same basic
materials to work within the galaxy that we have. Everything's made of the same
element. Yeah, and the thing that makes it alien is what you do
with it. And the lantheum certainly came as a complete shot, because nobody's
come up with that before this set of analysis. But then that's your second
option, your third option, and I sort of lean a bit in this
direction. Is something came down at Roswell in nineteen forty seven, something crashed
in Roswell, New Mexico, and it's possible that what we're looking at is
back engineered technology, so in fact it is alien technology, but it's actually
us doing the alien thing. You know, we've developed it and we're using
it, which then would quite neatly explain how it was, you know,
flying around in the late seventies early eighties, because it would have had time
then to do something with it and mess with it and develop it. But
what we thought was going to be a nice, clear, easy, you
know, this is going to nail this one. It's just made the rabbit
hole go deeper. It's just, you know, completely muddy the waters,
hasn't it really Because you've known totally You've now got three three hypotheses and you're
thinking, well, hang on the minute, which is the more slightly?
I mean, I think that back engineering idea is is interesting and I think
it's I think it's feasible that there was obviously something as well, and the
American Air Force did did look at what had come down what they have back
engineered a lot of the materials, even maybe some of the propulsion system that
you know that they're now looking at to to possibly power vehicles, you know,
in space exploration. But I mean, yes, I don't know,
do you do you sort of think it's more likely that one that that hype
of well being an archaeologist and knowing a bit about what went on in the
First and Second World War. The First World War, I get the guralment
thing. I get what they were doing with airships and that. So the
aluminum thing, I don't have any problem with that. That that's fairly straightforward.
However, the Roswell thing, you've got to start looking towards Operation paper
Clip and things like that, where they brought all of the German technology in
the German science and all those developments, rockets, you name it, and
they split them up across several continents. The Russian's got some, Chinese,
got some Americans got some. So looking at where nineteen forty seven where the
Roswell crash sits is in that you know, post operation paper Clip bracket.
So it could be it could be that the Germans were developing stuff like this
and working with things like this. But the real sort of kicker is the
lantheum. You know, that's not something that you just stumble across by accident.
You know, geologically speaking, there's aluminium out there. You can find
aluminum, you know, and there are ancient archaeological remains where it shows that
people have been messing with aluminum in the past. But lantheum's a big no
no, you know, it's nowhere. It just doesn't appear anywhere. I've
not seen it in any of the German technology records. I've not seen it
in any of the American technology records. We've approached, we've even approached experts
recently. This is post doing the book. We've approached experts in the military
aeronautical side of things, and they've come back and described stuff that looks very
similar to what we've got, but no lanthium. So you've got this huge
question mark over Okay, they're looking about with this, but not necessarily giving
away what's going on in terms of the chemistry and the weird metals and strangeness
that's in there. And then you've got a question, well, what does
it do? Because when they attempted in America to photograph this piece of lanthium,
it pushed back. When they started using microscopic photography on the metalwork,
all they got was interference. The image was breaking up. So the metal
clearly has a quality about it. There's something going on in there beyond it
just being a lump of earth, a lump of metal from the planet.
There's something else still going on inside it. The photograph of that does appear
in the book. You can see now it's you know, it's broken up.
It's it's almost impossible to get a clear picture of it. So they're
up to something and it does something. So it's it's almost like then it's
it's scattering the not protons, what whatever's being used to scatter, it's it's
reflecting it back. So to me, that would suggest maybe some sort of
mechanism whereby it hides itself, almost like a sort of clocking device if you
want to go down the old the old stock route. Well, what we
what we did was we can we considered it sort of from that point of
view. You know, do they flick a big switch and it just banishes?
Yeah, exactly, That's what I'm getting that, Yeah, yeah,
you know. And there was another side to it as well, and that
was maybe it's designed to operate under pressure at high speed, in certain dimensions,
at certain frequencies. You know, it's designed to operate and when for
some reason it slowed down and it got battered by trees. That slow,
low density impact broke it up like eggshell. It shattered it. So there's
something about the design of it that's really quite exotic. The cutting through the
trees was about twenty twenty five foot wide, so that's too big really for
a drone. It's about the right size for a small stealth vehicle of some
kind. But they'd have had to develop that in the late nineteen seventies in
order to get it up in the air and have it flying by January nineteen
eighty three. You know, they've only had a couple of years in the
eighties there to actually fly this thing. So I'm not aware of anything in
that period that's like it. So when did the Americans start flying the well,
they call it the flying wing. Didn't there they be the stealth bomber?
They would you developing that as a concept? I think it was skunk
works that were doing it in the United States. I think they were developing
it in the nineteen fifties based on the German technology, but it is older.
But they've not come forward and said anything. We've put We've put disclosure
requests in freedom of information requests and so far, we've just drawn a blank.
You know, nobody's talking, and the few people we know who might
know are not talking either. You know, they're just all playing ignorant of
what this material is fascinating stuff though it really is. Because absolutely so this
let's let's just go back to the crash site then, because you mentioned obviously
there's this huge swath of trees that have been flanned twenty five feet wide.
How long was that? How you know, I mean, have you been
able to work out how fast it was going? That's that's what I'm getting
at. The general opinion is that it was going slow. The reason the
reason for it going slow is its quite miraculous really, because it hit the
trees, it cut this swathe. It then either exploded or imploded or shattered
covered the four fields. And what everybody couldn't understand, no one could understand
this at the time, is that the bulk of it was still able to
fly off where no engines, no cockpit, no pilots, no structure,
I mean four fields. To cover four fields, that's like pretty much the
whole of the outside shell of this thing's gone. But it was still able
to depart without leaving any any remains. You know, there's a couple of
other bits of a twist as well. While we're looking at that period,
we contacted the guy who wrote the article, Andrew Chapman, because we thought,
okay, where did he get his story from? So we did this
back in two thousand and eight. We contacted him at that time he was
still working for the Sunday Express. He said, hang on a minute,
lads, I'll go and have a look. I'll have a look at my
notebook. So he toodles off back to his notebooks, couldn't find where the
story had come from. It just appeared from nowhere. So he said,
somebody must have come around the office, you know, after the New Year's
break and just handed it out to be written up. But the thing is,
it only appears once in that one article in the Sunday Express, which
is exactly what happened at Roswell, because you only had the Roswell Daily Record
that reported it on the day and the day after that was all we had
and the parallels. Gary picked up on this actually when we were doing the
documentary. He said, it's the same, it's the same playbook. You
know, something crashes in the desert one farmer comes out, finds the debris,
debris's cleared up, disappears to an air force base. That's it.
We don't hear anything else. It's rumored that Matt Brasel, the farmer,
got, you know, a few of the fragments which you put in a
case, and heid nobody's ever been able to find that. You know,
you got exactly the same thing in Wales. You've got one farmer, one
cleanup operation, disappears, all vanishes off to an air force base. Only
one newspaper article, you know, a case full of debris. The parallels
are just unbelievable. Gary did some notes. I've put them in the book,
these notes that he did, and he's managed to cover about three or
four pages as things that are basically the same. So I strongly suspect somewhere
in a military department they've got a book on the shelf, you know,
in the event of a UFO crash, this is what you do, you
know, almost like like UFOs for dummies. That's it playbook, military playbook.
They'll have it somewhere. I mean, it is a bit similar to
things like Rendallsham and that, But honestly, the closest parallel is Roswell.
You know, I heard an interesting story actually about Rendallsham from a friend of
mine who lives down in Suffolk, and he'd been speaking to and you know
who you are, Chris. I'm actually off week. I'm going I'm going
to go and visit rendls from actually the first time for time I've been down
there. But he smoked to a local guy who reckoned that it was an
Essays operation that caught the Americans out they were testing the base at Rendalsham.
And this is a big cover up because the Americans wanted to save face.
They had been caught out. The Says had courts with pounds down and they
didn't want to admit that, you know, they weren't secure enough. And
these Says guys had gone in, done what they wanted to do to show
they've been there, and got out again without being seen. And so it
was a bit of a cover up by the by the American Air Force base.
It's an interesting but who knows. I mean, it's really it's really
clever because I mean the accusation was that these UFOs that were flying over switched
off all the atomic things that were stored there. You know, the nuclear
things that were stored there just turned them all off. Well yeah, it
could be the essay, yes, that's off to them if they did that,
you know, wow, yeah, yeah, could have been James Bond
who. Well, the funny thing was when these guys came to clean up
all the debris in Wales. One of the things that the farmer said was
he said, well, you know you've got like police officers, you know,
and some of them are in real big, high flying uniforms. He
said, Then you've got like the RF guys running around in the green you
know, and they've got some fairly you know, stripes and big badges and
that. And then he said, but they were all being ordered around by
these guys in black suits. He said that, you know, they were
there sitting and booted and ordering them around. So there's a lot of stuff
goes on we don't know about. Clearly, there's obviously that there's a government
department somewhere, isn't there. That's that's that's that's very much involved in this.
Is that particular area have there been sightings previously or have there been sighting
since? Is it an area where you get a lot of UFO sightings?
Well, sure, answers. Yes. I mean that is a brilliant question
because I I did a talk on it and I was approached by a lady
who used to be an art student, and she was based in Aberystwyth,
which is just up to the coast, and she said she opened the curtains
one morning and saw something coming up out of Cardigan Bay, one of these
underwater things the UAPs as to call them, now coming up out the ocean.
And she said she had a camera. She grabbed the camera photographed it
and I'm like, oh, please, please send me a copy of the
photo. She never did, but that was the tip of the iceberg.
Once I started talking to Gary, Gary's like, well, yeah, they
see them all the time. The local coast Guard has even got the phone
number for the local Air Force base and when they see them coming up,
they just phone the air Force base. There's stuff whizzing up and down the
valleys, you know, all the time. It's like the North Wales Triangles.
He's had some fairly close encounters with flying craft in that area. You
got, I dread to say, everyone gets this mixed up. The Berwin
Mountain incident is booing. Mountains are in that triangle. You know the things
I saw, you know, back in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties going
down the Mersey Valley and the things have been seen over Liverpool and again going
out towards the ocean. You know, we're the top edge of the triangle.
Then you sort of go down to Aberyswyth and that back up the coast
and you pretty much covered snow down here in the valleys and stuff's being seen
all the time. You've got the Denby lights, you know, that's another
book that's out. There's account after account after account coming in. The famous
flying triangles. We had those as well. They've been all over Wales.
It turns out though, I think that the Military of admitted they are stealth
drones, triangles with three lights. We had them zipping over winter Hill up
here in the nineteen nineties and that was funny because you had loads of reports
coming in, you know, flying sources of seeing over wind Tail and finally
they admitted they were flying these drones out of Manchester Air Are Okay, that's
interesting. Yeah, So I mean that's not too I mean, obviously I'm
I'm in North Lancashire, so it's not not too not too far away from
me, I mean more Combre's an area that that's had a lot of trianglear
UFO sittings of the years. But some of them are going back pre war,
which I think is interesting. Pre some of them, you know,
some of the reports in the in the local papers, in the sort of
more common Lancaster papers are going back to sort of turn of the twentieth century,
nineteenth century into into the twentieth century. So as a friend of mine
actually gave me a copy of a photograph which I'm desperately trying to find,
and it's it's Edwardian nineteen ten, nineteen twenty. And you can see it
is because you can see the buildings, you can see the trucks on it.
In this bridge, there's a Mexican hat style UFO sat right in the
middle of it. Yeah. And it's it's not a mark on the photo.
It's on it's on the negative. It's there. You know, that's
over one hundred years ago, Yeah, which which is I mean some of
these reports are pre dating actual flight, Yeah, predating the Right Brothers,
yeah, or or you know, this is the First World War, which
was obviously when you know, technology really galloped ahead. Because if there's anything
that makes technology gallup ahead, it's it's a good war. But obviously,
you know, pre pre First World War, we were messing about with balloons
and that was about it. But you know, there have been reports all
over the place the trying on the UFOs prior to the First World War,
which I think is amazing, really well, it does make you wonder if
anything the military says is trustworthy. You know, if they did know what
they were, they really were as old as that, then it's clearly not
a drone and it's not one of theirs. So you have you have to
take what they say, you know, with the with a pinch of salt.
There is a darker side to UFOs, I guess and to u APS.
And there's a conference actually Bolton Town Hall on the seventeenth of February.
It's called the Awakening and it's called the Darker Side of Upology. So if
anyone's watching this they want to get along to that. I'm on stage.
There's loads of other fantastic speakers up there. Go and hunt it out,
and that's the kind of that's the kind of thing we're looking at. Yeah,
yeah, are there any tickets left that you know, I would,
I would hope, so there might be one or two. You know you're
talking, it'd be sold out, Mark if you were, if you were,
well, it's Steve Mirror's on as well. Steve's there, and loads
of the other others that you'll know. So I mean, if its tickets
having the sold if they have sold out, I'm sure they could get some
extra chairs in, you know what I mean. Yes, Steve. Steve's
a guy that I keep meaning he's trying contact actually because he's you know,
he's sort of local, local lad like like you are as well. I
would imagine he's got some really interest stories to talk about as well. I
keep meaning to try and get hold of him. So when you see him
at the conference just mentioned me, and so you might be getting an email
from some old Craig Bryan who's looking to just go along with him. He's
all right, you know, he's a bit just disorganized, but he's all
right well. As a kind of a hot tip. I mean, we
get tons and tons of requests all the time from the States. We get
a couple from like Australia and Canada. Occasionally we get very few requests for
interviews, you know, from the UK, very few, so I'm sure
Steve would do one and positively. Yeah, I'm surprised, but no,
it's it's a big top topic, isn't it. In America, they're really
into it, you mentioned. Can can we just just tell me about this
Berwin Mountain incident? Yeah, it's the one that everyone goes to. It's
like the go to incident. But where this one that I'm investigating that I've
written up is nineteen eighty three Berwin Mountain. I think I'm right in saying
it was nineteen seventy four, so it's it's a lot older than that.
I've done a lot of research into that. And in the same way as
a lot of things like possibly Rendershop can be explained away, there's been some
quite strong valid statements made to explain Burwin away. So it depends which side
you take. You know, the local villagers saw all these lights up on
a hillside and it turned into a UFO incident, you know, helicopters and
blue flashing lights and all that. There's another alternative version. It was some
hikers that were lost up there and the lights, the lights with the people
searching for them, and there were some booms and bangs and flashes and but
you know, all these things are just all connected to create an incident.
Other than that there was there's no evidence on the ground, you know,
and it's difficult to find anyone that was actually up on the mountain. They're
harder to find. And some of the emergency services have come out and gone,
yeah, that's one of ours, you know. Yeah, we had
an ambulance up there, or a fire engine and you know, we had
a helicopter and that It just annoys me that if it's in Wales, if
it's in North Wales, everyone just pushes it all together, you know.
And there are different incidents, there are quite distinctly different ones. Well,
I've never heard of this this triangle that you mentioned, that this sort of
North Wales triangle Whales triangle, Yeah, something that that. I mean,
how far how far up does the extending you said it goes up to sort
of Merseyside? Well, yeah, the north side of it, if you
like, if you imagine a triangle sort of you know, on its side,
the sort of the t bar if you like, the top bar is
is is the River Mersey, right, and things that are whizzing around Wales
tend to impact on the Wirral and they tend to impact on Liverpool as well.
I mean, the one I saw was quite famous. I mean I've
seen little lights and stars and other bits and bobs, but the one I
saw was a Jenny Randall's right up in Mysteries of the Mid Mersey Valley or
Mysteries of the Mersey Valley. And it had this fine sauce that somebody saw
hovering over the Wirral and it was spotted by an airplane and then it moved
off and it was spotted by some campers, and then it shot a bit
further and went through the steam on the Fiddler's Ferry power station up here,
which is a major feat in itself because that's coming out at like forty odd
plus degrees. Anyway, its shot through that, and what I saw was
it coming out the other side. So it came through the steam, and
it looked like the Scout ship out of close encounters, you know, with
lights sort of changing color, you know, mostly white but with reds and
blues. And it moved slowly up the Mersey Valley got sort of level with
Warrington. With the light pollution that I could see, and then all the
lights went off and it just shot off into the sky. Looked to me
about the size of a small truck. But it took a long time to
piece all that together. The full account of that is in the book Europe's
Roswell. But it took eleven years to find out that anybody else had actually
seen that, And then it's took about thirty odd years, think it's thirty
four years to string all of the accounts together in detail, and it's down
to Philip Mantle again. Was it observed them by quite a few different people
as well as you good to see? Well, yeah, the first observers
were pilots in an aircraft coming into Liverpool aircraft at Liverpool Airport. They came
over an industrial state. They looked down and saw a big They described it
as like an opaque light bulb, like a circle below them. So they
were above it. They were above it. Yeah, they were looking down
on it. So there's this circle thing. And then the campers were on
one of the hills in Wirrell, camping on one of the moorland hills.
They could see this thing side on so they saw basically what I saw.
They saw this light bulb suddenly turn into this thing with lights on it,
and that came shooting over them, heading, you know, towards towards the
power station. I believe there were some witnesses around. The lighthouse got out
in my head anyway. There's a lighthouse that people go visiting on the Mersey.
There were some people there and that's where it's depicted on the cover of
Jenny Randall's book. It's shown as this flying source of a light coming down
with the lighthouse Hale. It's the lighthouse at Hale. And when I've plotted
it, when I've actually plotted where these witnesses are and what they saw,
it's a fourteen mile straight line running west to east, so you can see
it and you see what it's doing. And it just followed the valley,
followed the north bank of the River Mersey and came up to Warrington and then
vanished. But it took so long to piece it together that if there were
any other witnesses out there, I mean, I'd be glad to hear from
them, But you're taxing people's memories a bit, you know. I remembered
it because I wrote it in me diary it's interesting there because the whole of
that west coast then, so from Mid Wales, which is obviously Abery Swift,
Cardigan Bay, isn't it, going all the way up around North Wales
up to Merseyside, up past the Filed Course or Blackpool. Well, now
you've gone into what I would call the next triangle. Yeah, there's some
there's something else going on over Lancashire. But Lancashire seems to be different in
some ways. The flying triangles, for example, you've had those in Lancashire,
but you still had things coming up out the ocean, whereas in the
North Wales triangle you tend to get proper traditional UFOs, you get lights,
you get circular things, you get things that look like the Scout chips out
of you know, sci fi movies and that. But then if you go
down to South Wales, if you drop out of that triangle, go all
the way down to Cardiff, they've had the flying triangles. So it's like,
you know, different different sightings predominate in different areas. You know,
of course, over where I am where I'm speaking to you from now,
where I've got Pendal Hills, look out my window and i can say,
Pendal Hill, we've had UFO sightings which are again more like you sort of
typical circular UFO type source of shapes, lights, all that sort of stuff,
as opposed to the to the triangula UFOs. So yeah, so yeah,
it's like it's like areas, isn't it specific areas that you're getting specific
types of sightings. Wow, somebody needs to plot them all, don't they.
Somebody somebody who really really knows the onions beyond you and I, you
know, somebody's who's been doing this for a long time and has a lot
of sightings to go at. It would be fantastic if they did a sort
of UFO map of Britain because you know, I've spoken to people from Harborshire
and then you go a bit further, like you say, over in Yorkshire
they get things again that are slightly different, you know, they get different
shapes to get you know, different circumstances. I mean, the famous Yorkshire
one is the couple of policemen chasing one down a road. You know,
that's the famous incident over there. So it'd be nice to bring them all
together and kind of you know, see if there is some kind of patterns
to it and then maybe go a step further and plot where the military bases
are, you know, see how they relate to what we're seeing. You
know, might be a bit harder that though, because you know you're kind
of treading on their toes there to look at them, you know. Yeah,
but I mean, I mean that is interesting because I mean over in
Yorkshire Harrogate, where you've got men with Hell. Yeah, which I did
actually look at a map a while ago when I was when I was writing
my first book and doing a bit of research and looking at UFOs over Pendall
Hill and looking in particular at lay lines. Believe it or not. Oh
yeah, I actually actually plotted I found a plot of a layline which went
sort of west to east or east to west, whichever whichever way you're looking
at it. But it went through Pendall Hill, it went through men With
Hill, the air base there, and it intersected the northeast coast up around
the Whitby area, which of course is in a million miles away from where
Paul Sinclaire does a lot of you know, does all yeah, yeah,
poles up that way. Paul's getting some amazing things happening. I was speaking
to him not so long ago, and yeah, he's he's he's seen some
great things up there. It kind of makes you wonder if the earth energy
thing is something to do with propulsion. Yeah, of course, yeah,
they're being yeah, they're being drawn into these areas of maybe electro magnetism or
something to do with the geology of the land or something like that. You
know. Yeah, so it is very very interesting. Okay, so the
book is available on Amazon. It is want me to do the advert because
everybody always wants to know where I am and what I'm up to. So
let's get the advert out the way. It's dead easy this. I'm a
very simple person when it comes to media and stuff like that. I hate
doing things complicated. All the books that I've ever released, and any DVDs
that might still survive out there because there'll be secondhand copies. Everything is on
Amazon. So literally, just go and find it, pay for it,
click, you know, a couple of days later it comes to within through
your door. It's all out there on Amazon. So even the older books
that I did in the nineteen nineties, you can still get them. They're
still available. Everything's on Amazon. Just type me naming, you know.
Hopefully they'll all come up. If anybody wants to see what I've done production
wise, go on to YouTube. There's a company called Drake Michigan, and
they've put everything up for me in the last twelve months. So all Lost
Treasures are up there, all twenty two episodes. There's at least six documentaries
plus extras, just everything, all the back catalog, all the documentaries I've
produced right up to twenty nineteen. Everything's out there, so you'll find it.
Just if it doesn't come up immediately persevere. But it's out there.
And then if anyone wants to contact me, it's Facebook. I hate to
say it, but it is. Come and find me. Send me your
friend request. As long as your name's not Fifi trixa bell with a butterfly
and a rainbow, you know, and dozens of fake photos, in which
case you've had it, I'm not going to friend you. As long as
you're a real person, I'll friend you, or just talk to me a
Messenger. Yeah, you know, you can get me on Messenger, and
then if you on a book me or anything like that, you know,
we can take it a step further and I'll send you the details for that
but that's where I am dead easy. So it's either Amazon, YouTube or
Facebook. There we go. Excellent, that's brilliant. Have you got anything
in the pipeline, any plans for the future? Well, yeah, I
suppose. So I have leaked the fact that I have been working on a
couple of books to come out next. One of them is something that's frustrated
me for years, and I'm kind of working towards a book of magic,
but magic that works, you know, like you open your eyes first thing
in the morning and it's like, okay, what do I do now?
Well, you're not going to go you know, dressing up in robes and
casting big fancy circles and you know, sacrificing a squirrel. You know,
you're not going to be doing all this thing when you get up in the
morning. What do you do to make life magical? You know that has
deep spiritual meaning and can actually work. Because I'm a very you know,
and you probably gathered I'm a shoot, it's a duck man, you know
what I mean. It's got to be working or not. So that goes
all the way back to stuff that I learned way back in the nineteen seventies,
and that and then when I did the King Arthur book, The Polychronicon
of Joseph and Arthur, that took forty five years to get that into print.
Okay, it's the best book I've ever written. It's the best book
in hardback that Phillip's ever published. And that's, in his own words,
incredible book. So if you're into King Arthur, go and find that.
The next one, the next one, which I started the following year,
because I started that one in nineteen seventy seven, nineteen seventy eight. It's
got a working title The Keys to the Temple, because what I wanted to
do was deconstruct all the biblical nonsense thats out there or the clap trap,
try and find out what extra material does exist, include that, and then
see how that impacted on people like the Culdies, the early Celtic holy Men,
you know, the Knights, Templar, the Crusaders, the Crusading orders,
and the Gnostics, and how that's pushed everything to where we are now.
But that's a huge book, enormost book. I've done three books in
the last eighteen months, which is ridiculous because I normally do about one every
two or three years. So it might be a while before I get those
two out, but they're in progress. Shall we say they're in production.
Then I got the conference, you know, back out on tour again August
to December. I'll be doing groups all over the place. I'll advertise that
on Facebook. And I'm doing a gig called the Summer of Wolf in July.
I think it's on the twelfth of July at the Tower Brewery in Burton
on Trent. And that's with me rock band. You know, we're gonna
have a party. Let's have a summer party. What's the name of your
rock band? Wolfs lf Wolf. That's as simple. That's why it's called
Summer of Wolf. We every now and again we get together. We just
get loads of musicians on stage. We have a laugh. You know.
We're an old school It was a high school band that I joined in nineteen
seventy six, so we've been playing over forty years now, on and off.
Do you do your own stuff for it or do you do covers both?
We do mixture that, yeah. But if people have seen us before,
you know, which quite a few people will have done. We changed
the set list every time, so we're working on new material for this one.
Now we've got a rehearsal coming up in feb for it, so there's
a lot happening. There's a lot coming up. You know. I'm going
to say when your next book, says, when your next book comes out,
we'll have to have another chat. Well, you could do some of
the ones I've already done. I mean, you've got the Arthur one,
so we could do a night on Arthur. And then there's one called Crystal
Schools and Human Heads, so you could do that. It's all about DNA
genetics and extinct races of humans. There's one called the Green Man, so
you could do the green Man Life and Times of the real Robin Hood.
You've probably got quite a bit of Robin Hood stuff in your neck of the
woods because he came across he came over to Lancashire quite a bit. And
then the Disappearing Ninth Legion, which is all about that legion that marched off
never to be seen again, who incidentally might have been wiped out by the
Brigantes in the Pennines on the land kish Aside. All right, okay,
so so go and have a nosey, go and see what subjects are out
there on, you know, by away your books and I'll go and have
a look at your books. I'll make a listen what I want to talk
to you about, and I'll drop you an email. Yeah, please do.
I'll definitely do this because it's been You've been probably one of my best
guests I've ever spoken to. Mark. I've really enjoyed talking. Oh,
thank you. I'm glad we got here in the end and you we'd get
Yeah, we did. For those people who are watching and listening who don't
know it's a Wednesday evening, I was convinced it was tomorrow evening we were
doing this. Mark had come on to the Zoom meeting and been satur here
for twenty minutes waiting for me to turn up, and I hastily legged it
upstairs when I realized, turned everything on and spent about ten minutes apologizing profusely
for keep. Well, I'm I'm on a rum and chocolate and you're on
a on a tall whiskey, so that dad explains it all because I did
have I've had a rubbish day and I did have a big whiskey before I
came upstairs. But it's all it's done is lubricated the old brain cells.
And I think it's been it's been a fantastic interview. I've really enjoyed it.
But thank you very much. Good luck with everything you've got coming up,
especially. I will do my best to try and try and see if
I can get down to Bolton to the to the Awakening Conference Bolton Town Hall
seventeenth to February. And the tickets are not that expensive. Yeah, it's
really interesting. Yeah, and I'll pop into is it the Old Man's scythe
and the oldest the oldest pub in oh yeah, yeah, is it the
one in Bolt? Is it? Yeah? Thirteen something I seem to remember.
Yeah, it's medieval. Yeah, it's medieval. That's the place that
I've been wanting to visit. So yeah. So yeah, good luck with
everything and we will definitely, we will definitely get in contact and have another
another chat about some of your books. Excellent, Thanks Mark, it's been
an absolute pleasure, pleasure. Thank you. Tech Care. You can visit
my website www dot Craig Bryant dot co dot UK. Harry will Pendle will
return and remember to keep watching the shadows