Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we have another great show for you this evening. We have Robert Schroeder and
he's gonna be talking about solving in the UFO enigma. This is going to
be a little bit of science involved. I hope that doesn't scare you.
And he's a great guy. I had him on way long long ago and
back when my shows are one hour, and speaking of that, I want
to I want to make something clear. When people sign up for my subscription,
I say that you have access to the archives, and that's true,
but the two hour shows only started at one twenty seven. I think it
was Linda Molton Howe was the first two hour show I had, so it
only goes back to one hundred and twenty seven. I just wanted to make
that disclaimer because I always forget to say that, and so all the shows
prior to that we're free shows and one hour shows. And to support the
show for two dollars a month, all you have to do is go to
podcast ufo dot com and it's right on the menu bar. If you can't
help us out, we appreciate every listener. If you'd like to listen to
the full shows, all you have to do is check out YouTube on Wednesday.
You can watch them live on Wednesday evening at eight to ten pm Eastern
Standard Time or on our website podcast ufo dot com playing both those times,
and also there's a lot of people listen over at the Dark Matter Digital Network.
Hello to you over there, now, I started the show. One
of the reasons I started the show is because I'd been doing different pod cast
for a long time. I still have one that first one that I started
was the Antique Auction Forum. It's still going. Actually I started that back
in two thousand and nine. So not too many people interested in UFOs are
all that interested in antiques, but you never know. So the really reason
I'm bringing this up is I have a show coming up on that that kind
of has a cross interest because I have Dan Curry on and he was an
Emmy Award He won seven Emmy Awards and fifteen nominations for visual effects on Star
Trek, and so he's going to be on my Antique Auction Forum podcast next
week. He might be on YouTube, we're trying to work that out,
but he's gonna be talking about his collection of Star Wars, you know,
besides behind the scenes memorabilia and stuff like that. So it might be something
that you're not interested in. But I'm definitely going to be bringing up the
topic of UFOs. I'm going to do it, Okay, all right,
that's it. I'm going to bring in my buddy Alajandro Rojas. Hello.
Hello, So are you a little nervous about bringing up UFOs with your antique
buddies? Uh? Yeah, you know, I might, M yeah,
I might feel about before I actually, you know, somehow tested go for
it. You know what surprising these days I think is that because of this
Defense Department of Defense news, people are feeling a surprising how many people know
about it, first of all, and people are feeling pretty good about UFO
stuff. I think these days they're feeling more comfortable discussing it. I just
I had a casting call. Casting agent wrote me today about they're looking for
people for a show, and they say they're going to make it like an
Anderson Cooper, you know, serious UFO show for the History Channel coming out.
Oh, that would be neat and so the you know what can be
to reach out to people for them. The History Channel is a lot of
stuff they must have sent something out to production companies saying hey, we want
a UFO show, because I've gotten some calls and it sounds like it's they're
being approached from different angles with different ideas. So we'll see what comes of
this. But it seems like they want another show and a couple other networks
as well, so crush your fringers. I've talked to quite a few of
these people myself, not just for you know, programs and stuff they can
cover, but possibly myself being on one of these. So we'll see.
Yeah. Hey, by the way, I want to say to the YouTube
listeners out there, check out all a handrow now. I mean you've got
like a studio thing going there. You like it. You got a background,
you have lights everything. Wow, I've got background and lights. You
know, I'm gonna get some cooler logos to put up here. I think
that will be kind of neat. I was trying to do something different.
You know, everybody does green screen, which is kind of neat, but
it's complicated. I got this other background. It just didn't work out,
and you know, you got to get the distances and everything worked out.
But yeah, this is pretty cool. I think for now, and I'm
hoping to do more videos because people who follow our open Mind YouTube probably wouldn't
notice we haven't posted any anything in a while. So I'm gonna try to
do some more videos. And people love videos, you know. I was
doing green screen as as you know, and m and I started like floating,
so I just couldn't stop at all these weird like things and weird things.
Well, your backgrounds cool. Yeah, it's just a photographer's background,
that's all. Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'll be able to sell, you
know, make some money. Yeah, like killing was a QVC TV or
something. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking I've got some some like stickers.
It's gonna put like here's hack for it that event that Mark and Ben.
But that bank be too small. Yeah, but yeah for one hundred
dollars podcast, UFO can be behind Aljandro Rojas sank To. Yeah. Yeah.
So what's what's happened in the UFO world. Yeah, lots of cool
stuff going on. In my humble opinion, UM, I do want to
plug you know, Tyler rogue Away, the guy I interviewed UM this week
because he was great. He writes for a conventional Another person who because of
the DoD News felt emboldened to be able to write about UFOs, UH,
something he has an interest in. And he started off and he said,
you know, aerospace people, pilots, they all have an interest in UFOs.
He says, if they say they don't, they're lying. M So
he knows this because he's a journalist that writes for Defense and he writes about
Lockheed Martin skunk Works, all of this really cool stuff. And he has
tackled a couple of UFO stories recently, one of which which is hit the
headlines. You and I have talked about this Arizona UM event, Arizona,
the UH and New Mexico or these pilot saw something, but he hasn't even
much better one, which is what are this? This flight from California to
Oregon where they had seen an object that was caught on radar. The control
tower asked to pilot eight, does anybody see this? Many many pilots chimed
in and said, yeah, we see it, We see it. You
know. They described it as a bright object that was very large, as
as large as they are, which of course they're these large commercial airplanes.
They felt that this is nothing small. This has got to be big.
But it didn't have a transponder, so that was weird. They didn't know
what it was. It was moving at a speed equal to theirs at least
it was at a you know, length that was at least as large as
theirs. Nobody said they could make out any wings or anything. These were
flights that were landing in Portland. As soon as these flights landed, F
fifteens were scrambled and the ft fifteens couldn't find anything that whatever it was was
gone by the time that these F fifteen fighters got there. So a great
case. He did some great foil work. He worked worked with the FAA
to get the audio. So it's an incredible case. It's it's a really
really good case. So you can find this on the website called It's the
Drive, and the section he writes for, which is a defense section,
is called the war Zone. And Tyler rogue Away is his name. You
can find him on Twitter too, but some really good stuff. I had
him on my podcast last time. But those are some great stories out there.
Yeah, I've listened to started listening to the podcast. I think I
fell asleep has nothing to do with you. It's just late at night,
but it sounded like it was really good. Yeah, that was It was
a lot of fun. He sounded enthusiastic as well, so and I was,
Yeah, I really liked talking to people like outside of well, not
not to offend anyone at all, but kind of like outside of the UFO
realm that have had some type of experience. They're always interesting stories and an
interesting perspective. Yeah, I agree. Um, I agree with you one
hundred percent. And uh And it's important, I think, because if we're
going to reach broader audiences. Uh And and enlists people with expertise who can
help. Um. And the type of expertise at Rogaway has being very familiar
with topsy gret aircraft or or our defense capabilities. That's that's expertise, which
is vital. And uh And we talked about why he has been reticent to,
you know, discuss or do anything with his UFO interests because of the
nature of the field. You know, there's um a lot of goofballs out
there. We're silly goofballs. Yeah, that's right, we're harmless, which
is yeah, we're the harmless type of goofball. Yeah. Anything else happening,
Yeah, there's other stuff that's kind of cool. This is I think
a very cool story. The story I posted was from Popular Mechanics. You
canbind this on the front page of Open Mind stat TV. But there are
other stories out there, and this is the idea that they think they might
have discovered life on Venus. So this is a really yeah, this is
a really neat story had popped up, but I got some details here.
But essentially, of course they've thought that Venus is too hot and inhospitable to
have life, but they've noticed these dark clouds in Venus's atmosphere and they think
that these might be light absorbing bacteria. So it would kind of be like
the ocean where we have these blooms of bacteria and similar thing, but in
their atmosphere in Venus that you know, there may be this bacteria living there.
So an amazing discovery if they do find find out that's what it is.
But it's really cool that, yeah, they're taking this really seriously,
that this could be maybe, so all these contacts we that were saying there
were, you know, in touch with the Venusians, all these you know,
yeah, they were right. Who knows, maybe these bacteria have consciousness
and they've been they even can use telepathy. Who knows that. Sure,
we'll find out over time, you know, we're always finding out. The
universe is much stranger than we expect. But maybe they'll be watching these plumes
and they'll see some kind of large creature come floating up in the clouds and
eating the bacteria. Who knows. But yeah, the ironic though a planet
that um It has been stated many many times over the years that there's no
way there could be life there. Wouldn't that be got ironic if life was
found there first, no kidding, especially with all of the missions and everything,
all the focus on Mars, it would be shocking. It would be
really cool if that did happen. Yeah, let's see. There was another
couple of things. Tom belong. It's got a secret Machines book too coming
out. Of course it's fictionalized or no, this is, but it's supposed
to be based on real stuff. That's kind of interesting. But this is
really cool. The mint in Winnipeg is the Canadian mint. They are posting
a Manitoba UFO encounter coin. They actually already made it, and I guess
it's a hit. It's a different kind of shape and it glows in the
dark. But it is in commemoration of the sighting that took place. And
Chris root Rutkowski, you know that the UFO researcher in Canada. He's been
doing some news pieces, so we have some of those. We posted the
extended version of an interview with him about this with CTV Canadian Television News,
and so it's it's kind of cool. This was an event that occurred in
the seventies. I can't remember exactly which year, Sorry for that, but
essentially, this is a guy who came across a craft and it actually burned
him. He was got too close and he said it took off in it
burnt these marks across his chest. But yeah, yeah, they're commemorating this
UFO encounter with this coin, a really cool coin. I was like,
I'm gonna get it. It's a twenty dollars coin. But you know,
even though they put that monetary value, they charge more for them. I
wasn't aware of that. So I went to was really happy to spend my
twenty dollars and it turned out it's actually one hundred and forty dollars for the
coin. So I'm not sure if I can make that much of an investment
yet my boss did or John Rao, the owner of open mind stat TV.
So I'm excited to get a look at his coin once he gets it.
I guess they're going to be shipped out in June. But really cool.
I always think of that as a Falcon Lake incident, and that was
back in nineteen sixty seven, by the way. Yeah, you're right,
and you know what I could be and this has happened before, believe it
or not. I could be completely wrong in the signing that day. I
don't know that would be the same sighting because the guy had the burn marks
on him. Yeah, but it happened in Manitoba. Yeah it is Felcolm
Leak. Yeah, you're right, sixty seven, so that that is the
one that they're commemorating. Yeah, yeah, that is so cool stuff.
Yeah, that's that was quite a quite an incident. I would love to
do a show and that sometime. If there's like a researcher that wrote a
book, I don't know, I haven't even looked into it, but that
would be good to do it. You know, you'll have to. You
know, people can go to open mindset TV right now and on the front
page in our headlines. Um, you'll see the interview with Chris Rudkowski.
Um, he might be the person to talk to about that case. Yeah.
Yeah, and he's great. I mean, he's a journalist, he's
he's very credible and grounded in his research. So I'm a big fan of
his. But if you go to articles and then you go to look at
the daily UFO headlines, you'll see the link for the actual coin story,
where you'll be able to also find the link to purchase your own should you
wish to do so. Okay, so is that it for news? Today's
it? Yeah, unless you want tomorrow. I'm sure I can come up
with something. There's always lots of exciting stuff going on. I think it's
time to bring on the guests. But I really appreciate it, Ahndrow,
and will be talking to you next week as always. Yep, you've got
a great guest to go to, so you better get to it. And
thank you very much. We'll talk to you next week. All right,
take care, byebye, t see. Yeah. All right. Our guest
Robert Schroeder, like I said, he was on many years ago at the
beginning of the podcast. His book is called Solving the UFO enigma, how
modern physics is revealing the technology of UFOs. He's recently retired, well,
he's been retired, awhile after twenty six years from Hewlett Packard, where he
was involved in operations and product management. He has degrees in math from Marutgers
and University and in aerospace engineering. And anyway, we are going to be
talking now to Robert. Welcome to the show again, Robert him Morton.
Thank you for having me on the show again. Yeah. Yes, last
time he was face to face in my office when I was down in Massachusetts.
I don't know if I remember, Yeah, I sure do. Yeah,
I've been Uh oh where was it by the mall? Yeah? That
was it right? Well, as I say, they're the locals. Yeah,
I'm from New Jersey, so yeah I originally yeah yeah. Um.
For the I believe I hear a phone ringing, perhaps that's okay, you're
right, Yeah, that's okay. Um so um. For the person that
doesn't know your background, um, I know you have other science or engineers
in your family, but can you kind of give a background. And I
remember you telling me you had a sighting when you were young, a real
unique sighting, if I remember right, right, that's exactly right. And
I'm glad you mentioned that because I would like to talk about that a little
too. But first let me give you a little bit of my background.
I come from New Jersey, as I just mentioned, and I grew up
in te Neck, New Jersey, which is a little town, well not
that little. It's physically it's not too big, but population wise, it
has about forty fifty thousand people, so compared to the town I live in
now, which is physically much bigger but has a much smaller population. But
we were a suburb of New York City, and so I grew up there
in the fifties and sixties, and probably sometime in the eighties, I came
up to this part of the country to work for a computer company. Originally
it was Digital Equipment Corporation, which I'm sure many of the local people here
remember, but eventually Digital was swallowed by Hewlett Packard. So at the end
of the day, I ended up retiring from Hewlett Packard after twenty six twenty
seven years. And that was a great company to work for. One of
the best reasons to work for Hewlett Packard. I had trips out to California
in the middle of the winter, and for those of us in Massachusetts you
can really appreciate that, you know. But anyway, I come from a
family of scientists and engineers. My dad was a chemist and he graduated from
MIT, so I have that kind of a back around. Um. I
have a degree in math from Rutgers. Um My daughter works now down in
the DC area, and she's a structural engineer, you know, probably a
bit unusual for a woman, but that's what she does. And my wife
is a math teacher. I met a high school math teacher. I met
her in abstract algebra at Rutgers. So so that ex that gives you an
idea of who I am, you know. And I love science. I
even though I ended up in the business world. I worked, you know,
for a computer company there, and I was actually in finance and operations
and product management. But my heart was always with science and physics in particular.
I just love it, you know. I'm the kind of guy that
I go to bookstores and Leo, I live here in Message Sits, and
I'll go to the Harvard Coope their big yeah, their big book store there
you know about that Martin, Ye, yeah, and it's gigantic and they're
just literally thousands of books on science and stuff. And my wife gets a
little upset. But I could spend the entire day there, you know,
and looking through the book. She'll only let me buy so many per trip,
you know, otherwise would be buried, you know. But I um
so, anyway, I've been one of your You sent me an email before
the show that one of your listeners I think his name was Tom, had
asked a couple of questions and how did I end up with an interest in
physics and stuff even though I worked in the business world. Well, actually,
I originally wanted to work for NASA, but by the time I graduated
from college in nineteen seventy two. At that time there was a lot of
budgetary problems and they were cutting back on the NASA budget. So I ended
up switching to a business major. I ended up getting an MBA, and
so I stayed in Rutgers for two more years. And that worked out great
because I did. Okay, nice retirement and all that stuff, and but
I missed science and all through the years, one time allowed I would read
on physics and stuff like that. And just to give you an idea of
what I what I do when I read about physics. I loved the you
know, the general interest books, and you know, I definitely enjoy those.
But I also am interested in the math and physics, so I've been
for the last year and a half. I've been studying the man of general
relativity, Tensor math and all that stuff, and I've also kind of looked
at quantum mechanics. I derived Schroeder Inter's equation, which is one of the
key equations of general relativity. But in fact, oh I forgot to mention.
I wrote a book Solving the UFO Enigma, How modern physics is revealing
the technology of UFOs. And in that book, for anybody who's interested,
they can see how I derived the key wave equation of quantum mechanics, and
it's kind of fun. Don't be afraid of it, don't I tell people,
even if you don't have a math background, you can figure it out.
In the back of the book, I show basic calculus how to do
it. I show vector calculus and things like that too. So that's one
thing I really believe in that people should not be afraid of the math and
the physics. In the back of the book and appendix A, I don't
know if you, Oh, Martin is showing it on the on the video
here, you can kind of see it in appendix Oh yeah, you're looking
at the shorterger equation derivation there and and it's it's not as bad as you
might think. It takes a little bit of Uh, you've got to kind
of go through the um the if you don't have a background in math,
you want to go to the appendix A and look at that, and then
you can flip back to the shorter your equation. And but if that hope
that gives people an idea of where I come from in my background. I
love science, and I'm you know, I have so much fun. Oh,
by the way, another thing I forgot to mention. After I retired,
I started doing substitute teaching at a middle school and high schools and stuff,
and I have so much fun with the kids. Um. I try
to inspire them to get into math and science. And for a very good
reason, I believe, because many people may not be aware of this,
but only about six or seven percent of American college students go into engineering and
engineering and science. In contrast in China, which is certainly one of our
big competitors today. It's something like, isn't that incredible? It's it's six
seven times greater, you know, And so if you don't watch out,
we're going to lose our shirts, you know. Um and technology is so
so critical but pardon me, but not only that, but you think of
the population of China compared to the US, and then you do the math
how many people that is compared not never mind percentage, but the amount of
people. And you're going to get real smart people in there. You know,
it's just bound to happen statistically. Yep, I totally agree. And
we have really got to be kind of proactive about this, um and so.
But anyway, that's so when I'm at middle school and the high school,
I love telling I love inspiring the kids and telling them about you know,
special relativity, general relativity and stuff like that, and I UM and
I've come up with some kind of simple ways to show them how it works,
so they can actually see how the curvature of space time creates what we
call gravity. And then I do another example that shows that anybody can come
up with the equations of special relativity. If you if you know the Pythagorean
theorem, you can. You can do it on your own. And it's
it's that easy, you know. And people are unnecessarily afraid of um math
and science and they shouldn't be. And but anyway, so I want to
also mention about the UFO sighting that I had. This Okay, this was
way back, way way back. It was in nineteen November nineteen fifty seven.
And for people who have really followed the UFO experience over the years here
they will be aware that nineteen fifty seven was one of those times when there
was a gigantic UFO wave around the world, but particularly in the United States.
And at the time, I was only about ten years old, and
I and I and of course I didn't I don't think I was reading the
papers back then. I think I was out playing baseball. But m so,
but one day in nineteen fifty seven. But I did love science even
then as a kid, had used to bias chemistry sets and things like that.
And my grandfather was an engineer. So because of that kind of history
and background, it's just sort of in my blood, you know. And
and so one day, about five o'clock in the afternoon in November, so
the so the sun was already beginning to go down, but you could still
see it. I mean you could. It was still bright daylight. And
I looked up in the sky. And we lived about two miles two or
three miles west of New York City Manhattan the George Washington Bridge for people that
know that part of the country. And and so I looked up and I
looked at the peak of the roof of our house. We had a big,
two story house. I come from a big family, so we needed
a big house. I have five brothers and sisters, and and yeah,
I know, so uh. But anyway, what happened was I was out
there, and I don't know why I was out there, but I used
to love to look up at this at the bowing seven h seven was just
coming out, and so you could see these jets going across the sky.
And I used to love to go up there and go out and look at
them. And I looked up and I saw this cylindrical shaped object coming over
the roof of our house. But it was way up there, probably about
five thousand feet, and it was heading straight toward New York City, and
it was exactly the shape of a cigarette. That's the best way I can
describe it. And it was gold in color. And I'm looking at this
thing, and I'm thinking, this is really weird because Bowing seven H seven's
had tapered front and back. The nose was tapered and the tail was tapered,
and you could and you could see the wings usually now, of course,
anybody in a clear It was a perfectly clear blue sky. And I've
noticed sometimes when a plane tilts its wings a certain way, you can see
the fuselage, but you can't really see the wings, and so you know
they're there, but you know you don't really see them. And so I
thought, well, maybe that's what it is, and maybe it's just an
optical illusion about the blunt front and the blunt back. I mean when I
say shape light a cigarette, I mean exactly like a cigarette. And then
as it continued, it's a majestic that's the only way I can describe it,
a majestic movement across the sky, heading east toward New York City.
And as I mentioned, we were about two or three miles west of Manhattan.
I noticed there was a round object following in tandem behind this thing,
and it was maybe one length of the cigarette behind it, and the cigarette,
by the way, was long access was pointing toward New York, and
it was going in the direction of travel, and so anyway, they were
both moving along together, and the round object was no wider than the narrow
width of the longer cylinder, And so I was amazed. I could not
believe I was what I was seeing, And here's this thing, and it's
and then it finally headed toward the trees at the other end of our yard.
And at that point I said, oh my gosh, I got to
tell my brothers and sisters. So I ran inside to get them, and
I got one of my brothers to come out, and he took a look
and he saw it just as it disappeared. But it was really strange.
But now I got to tell you the connection to the UFO phenomenon. It
was November in nineteen fifty seven, and anybody who studied the UFO phenomenon over
the years knows that an early November UM there was a big UFO case standard
level in Texas. Does it does that ring a bell? It was,
j Oh, it doesn't. It was should have known of that one,
but I just can't can't recall it. Oh yeah, no problem. Well,
UM, briefly what happened down there? And doctor J. L.
And Heinech investigated, UM, these objects came down. There was about seven
or eight sightings around this town, and people's trucks were being stopped, cars
being stopped when these egg shaped objects would land on the road. UM,
you know, one hundred couple hundred feet in front of a car and the
car's engine would stop. A very typical characteristic of UFO close encounters. And
A and as doctor Heineck points out many times in his books, UM,
so it's very interesting that I saw this thing in November two. I think
that's significant and A and so anyway, UM years later, UM, as
a as a teenager, I took a book out of UM the te Neck
Public Library by Donald Kehoe, Major Donald Kehoe and and and again many people
with a background in the UFO field know that Donald Kehoe was was the one
of the guys that became even though he was an Air Force guy. I
think it was he Project Bluebook. I can't remember, but whatever, he
was the first ye first um Lee Spiegel and I were just talking about him
last night. He was basically the first UM government whistle blower on UFOs Okay
former Air Force and well, one of his books that I was reading in
in the sometime in the nineteen sixties, um it talked about this sighting over
in France. UM that were this guy I was walking his dog early in
the morning and he looked up in the sky and he saw this gigantic cylinder
and it was like two am in the morning or something, and he said
it was like a metallic cylinder. It was tilted at a forty five degree
ankle and as he watched it, he was wondering what the heck it was.
He said, this thing, he compared it to the clouds, and
he kind of had an idea of how big the clouds were, and he
said this thing easily had to be a half mile long. And so now
I'm really interested as I read this story because it sounded like the cylinder that
I saw. And he described it as blunt on the ends and looking pretty
much like a cigarette. And then here's the key to the whole thing.
He said, on the bottom end of this thing, suddenly saw a flash
of light and a disc shaped object came out, swirled around the cylinder a
couple of times, shot off in one direction of the compass a second and
came out shot off in another direction until six or seven had come out and
disappeared exactly exactly. And I realized what I had seen back in nineteen fifty
seven was one of these typical mother ships, and that was just one of
the UFOs, which must be what I guess you could call scout ships that
must be stacked up like plates on the inside of the mothership, you know.
And I finally realized that's what it was. And that revelation really excited
me because I suddenly realized there was something to this phenomenon. This was something
real and so um. Anyway, over the years, as time permitted,
I've been studying the UFO phenomenon and I and of course my love of science
too, I tried to apply many many times over the years. I kept
wondering if different ideas, UH could explain it. You've probably heard of the
Alcuberry warp drive, Miguel Alcuberry, and I looked at that back in the
nineties. Before that, oh, there was that guy out in California and
I forget his name, uh, Kip Thorne, the physicist Kip Thorne,
and he discussed the idea of wormholes and the idea of his of having negative
energy to hold the wormhole open that would allow craft to travel between the stars.
And so there were a number of these ideas floating around, but I
never was totally sure of them and be and eventually Miguel Alcuberry came out and
said that his idea probably wouldn't work because the energy requirements were way too great.
And Kip Thorne pointed out that the problem with the war wormhole ideas that
the idea of negative energy and and and a wormhole, uh, trying to
get a wormhole to go to you can't direct the wormhole. You basically have
to find one and then go into it, and and and the dangers are
tremendous. I just suddenly realized, Martin, I've kind of taken off here
without uh, you know, you're the host. Oh no, no,
no, this is all. This is all interesting. By the way,
UM, I have a question involving a Ray Stanford coming up here in a
second that was sent to me. He just emailed me to correct me,
and I looked it up at the same time. Keyhole was actually a marine
major. He was an aviator too. Yeah, okay, thanks, And
I was a woman said he was air forced. So that was wrong.
So here's a question with Ray. And by the way, later on we'll
take calls anyone wants to call in. Um we will be taking calls right
after let's see about a half hour from now. Um okay. So this
person want to know have you ever spoken with Ray Stanford regarding propulsion ideas?
Race seems to have some very complex understanding or theories regarding propulsion. It would
be neat to see how both ideas compare. Have you and Ray ever discussed
this? You know, before the show, I knew that question was going
to be coming, and I quickly I only had about ten or fifteen minutes,
but I quickly looked up on the internet and I couldn't find much on
Ray Stanford. And I couldn't find much about his theories, in fact,
actually nothing, So I don't really know. I've heard, I've definitely heard
of him. He's been I've heard him mentioned a few other times. I
just haven't been able to find out much about his ideas. The only place
that I can think of and Ray may call in. He's called in a
number of times. But the only place I can think that it's published would
be in Chris Lambright's book X descending UM and his propulsion theory is played out
very well, and that um with images and everything. It's very interesting.
And uh, you know Ray again, Ray may call in later, you
know, in the half hour, but we have to we have to talk
about your your theories, how you came up with it. And I remember
I was kind of baffled and it and you didn't go to science e but
you had to get a little bit uh into math and a little bit on
how things work. Um. So let's can start at the beginning or anywhere.
Oh okay, yeah, that that sounds great, Martin. And so
the first thing I want to address is the UFO evidence. And I know
a lot of people are skeptical about UFOs and um UM, but they really
shouldn't be. I don't think the ones that listened to this show, I
don't believe they are. I believe there are some for the most for the
most part that you know, I have people that are that are interested.
We have a lot of people that are very good, healthy skeptics, but
still are interested like you were all the years. Yes, and I uh,
you may have heard of skeptical inquirer and Robert Schaefer and I actually saw
him Dan in Arizona at the International UFO Congress and I tried to get him
to come over to my table, but I couldn't get him to come over.
It was too bad. Um. But I'm I, you know,
I always want those guys to get a fair hearing. Um. You know.
So I'm I don't really have any problem with skeptics, um. But
my my attitude is that, um you know now that kepler um, the
Kepler telescope um and um, wait, was the kepler or whichever, No,
Keppler's going up. That's the new one kepler up there, okay.
And James Webb is the one that the James Webb. That's it, thank
you Martin. Yep, the James Webb is going up I think this year.
But anyway, the kepler and some other methods that they've been using,
they've found about four thousand extrasolar planets out there, and I think they even
found when the Trappist system tr Appist that has like eight or nine, seven
or eight planets, many of them earth sized, and they think two or
three appear to be in the habitable habitable zone of the Trappist System. I
don't know how many people have heard about that, but the fact that the
methods that they're using now are kind of biasing the data toward planets that are
closer to their parents star. And for example, the Trappist System is a
dwarf star, a red dwarf, and so those planets are relatively close.
And of course the reason for that is they what they're looking for is um
when the planet eclipses the star and there's a slight change in the light,
then they know that the planet is there, or there's a wobble in the
star's orbit because of the planets tugging it, and so these are the different
things. But of course a planet that's closer to its parents star is going
to create more of a wobble. And so the methods that they're they're using
right now are not really designed to find solar systems like ours, where the
planets are spread out and it's a G star and and of course nine nine
of the stars out there, the planets going around them won't be in uh,
you know, directly in our plane so that we can see the planets
against that star. It's only about one percent that are happened to be eclipsing
their stars that are at the right angle the orbits of their planets. And
so the reason I mentioned that is because the fact that just by these relatively
primitive methods they've already found four thousand planets in a decade or two tells you
that they are just everywhere and so, and before this they really didn't know.
It was pure speculation, the Drake equation, and so now they know,
and the odds are that there are just literally billions trillions of planets out
there, and so I think the possibility of other earths with intelligent life are
just phenomenal, you know, I think they're absolutely overwhelming. And so anyway,
so what I want to get to is the next question is if there
is life out there, have some of these more advanced civilizations than ours,
have they been able to figure out how to get to planet Earth? And
I think they have. And the reason I say that is because of the
UFO evidence, not just my sighting, but sightings by thousands and thousands of
people, by very credible witnesses like airline pilots, professors and things like that,
people like that. And so I want to point out the evidence from
the accumulated evidence we have of UFOs and their characteristics, because that's critical.
So one of the things that's really interesting about UFOs is their rapid accelerations.
This has been reported time and time again. I remember there was like I
think it was a General Mills. I know they're a serial company, but
they operate some atmospheric research labs too, and they were doing some worked down
I think in New Mexico or someplace like that, and they had some balloons
up there that they were observing through THEODO light. And one day they observed
they saw a UFO circling one of their balloons, and they were watching it
and they could see it clearly, and they said it was a typical disk
shape UFO. And then to their amazement, the thing took off, they
estimated because they were able to track it at over one hundred geeves one hundred
times the force of gravity the acceleration. This is unbelievable and a and so
the best human pilot can do is about ten gs and some in our jet
fighters, and even then it takes a g suit and special training and stuff,
and that's about the best they can do. So that's an important characteristic
of UFOs this phenomenal acceleration, and we have to pay attention into these characteristics
if we're going to understand their technology. And so that's one thing that's very
important now. In order for an object, any kind of object, to
accelerate fast, it has to overcome inertia, and inertia is basically is nothing
more than the resistance to acceleration. And there's a number of theories out there
on where inertia comes from. But one of the guys that way back many
many years ago, back at the old in the turn of the previous century,
around nineteen hundred or sometime in that era, at an Austrian physicist by
the name of Ernst Mock, came up with Mock's principle, and his idea
was that inertia is due to the mass of the entire universe, so pulling
on any particular object when it tries to accelerate. And and so he meant,
when you look up at the sky at night, all those stars out
there, all those galaxies and everything like that, billions and billions of light
years away, are all tugging on whatever object it is in our vicinity that
tries to accelerate, which is kind of an amazing theory. And Einstein wanted
to incorporate Mock's principle into his general theory of relativity, and he wasn't really
sure whether he did or not, But anyway, so there's a number of
people that have looked at this over the years. But um so, but
the key thing I'm really trying to get at is is that inertia any The
greater the mass of an object, the greater the inertia, so the harder
it is to accelerate. And this is very important to what we're going to
get to later. And so, um somehow and now, how much do
these UFO's way? While Ted Phillips of Mufaun, who used to work for
doctor j. Allen Heineck, I actually went out and did a multi year
study on this, and he examined landing sites where UFOs had come down and
looked at the indentations in the ground. I think there was one in France
where atlanted on railroad ties and left deep indentations in the railroad ties. And
so he concluded that these objects and he said in the witnesses reported that the
object came down and then Jeff very gently settled down. So the indentations don't
appear to be from momentum the object coming in fast and leaving a bigger indentation,
so they appear to be just from the weight of the UFO itself after
it turned off. It's at whatever engines it has. But he ended up
coming up with the figure between ten and thirty tons, ten tons to thirty
tons for the typical disk shape and egg shaped and stuff like that. Yes,
you got it, Martin, it's on this this is and you know,
just getting um. You do hear of impressions that are very deep on
these landings, like, for instance, the egg shape one its coral left
you know, really jig, you know, deep marks in the ground.
That's right, and and that's right. And doctor j l and Heinek examined
that that landing site. So that was a very interesting one because a police
officers generally going to be very credible, and I think there was possibly other
witnesses who observed the thing at a distance and but um. But anyway,
the reason I mentioned this is because somehow these UFOs, which appear to be
in that ten to thirty ton range have fun nominal acceleration, which tells you
that something really interesting is going on here, And for them to accelerate an
object with great mass like that, you can think of like a cannon ball.
It takes tremendous force to shoot a cannon ball. And you can actually
see the cannon ball, uh, you know, as it travels, if
you're at a particular angle, you can see it. But a rifle bullet,
which is has very little mass, when you shoot it out of a
rifle, you can't see it. It's just so fast, you know,
and it can accelerate a lot faster than a cannon ball. And I've actually
seen this. This is something I it amazed me. I was in Vietnam
back in sixty seven sixty eight and in the US Army and the Battleship New
Jersey, the state from where I come from then, was shooting at targets
beyond where we were. And we were, you know, we were just
kind of we could hear the noise of the shells. Um are the ones
that had already passed us because they're going uh pretty fast and uh and so
but we happen to be looking up and we saw these silver flashes in the
sky and I realized we were looking at the shells being lobbed by the New
Jersey. So that tells you an object with a lot of mass can't go
very fast, but it does carry a lot of punch because of its mass
and and and of course the explosives and but but anyway, that's just an
example of uh, what I mean by inertia and mass, the relationship there.
So that's one of the one of the other important characteristics. Um And
then another very important characteristic of UFOs is their ability to levitate, and and
that's very interesting too, and typically levitate without making too much noise, although
sometimes as they hear humming or generator noise, and so I'd have to say
that they do make some noise, any of them do. But a lot
of times you do hear of the silence. That's the one you hear almost
more often. Yes, that's exactly correct, and and I find that pretty
amazing too, mum So. But then another characteristic which I really find interesting
is that these um A number of people over the years, pilots have seen
these UFOs become partially transparent and then totally disappear. And one of the best
cases was Captain Charles Dubac air France, and I don't remember the date,
maybe nineteen ninety four something like that, but he was approaching Paris in a
Boeing seven forty seven and he observed about a thousand foot diameter red disc about
twenty miles ahead of him. And this red disc, he said, it
was picked up on their airborne radar as well as two ground radars, a
military and civilian. And as they watched this object, it became partially transparent,
and then they finally could see straight through it, and it finally totally
disappeared. But it isn't that I find that amazing. And then another guy
up in Canada, and this was more recent, I think maybe twenty fourteen
twenty fifteen, observed a cylindrical shaped UFO that was below him as he was
coming in for a landing, and he saw it moving above this highway.
And then as the UFO maybe apparently for some reason, it suddenly became partially
transparent and then totally disappeared right in front of his eyes. And he said,
the weird thing was he could see the road right through the object,
but still see the outline of the object, and then it disappeared, and
and and and uh, there's a number of other cases. There was a
guy, oh and I can't remember his name, M. Chichester, Francis
Chichester. You've probably never heard of him. He was one of the UM
pioneers and aviation aviation pioneer and UM and way back and I believe the nineteen
twenties, um um, way back in the nineteen twenties. Um. Oh,
you know what, the wind is blowing here, and I heard this
noise by the door. And but but this guy, um, he was
flying what's called a gypsy moth aircraft, which is a biplane. So this
wasn't exactly fast, but but he saw what And those days they didn't call
them UFOs in the nineteen twenties, um, but um, he observed this
um um disc shaped object with a uh you know, with a cupola on
the top. And he said what amazed him was as he was watching it,
he said, it was maybe maybe a mile out ahead of him,
and as he's approaching it, um, and it was off to one side
a little bit. He said, the thing became partially transparent and then it
totally disappeared. And then where the object had been, a cloud formed in
exactly the shape of the UFO. And and then it dissipated in the breeze.
But then as he looked over on the right, he saw another flash
of light and the object reappeared over there. He said, it seemed like
it was splitting the sky and reappearing, and it moved, he said,
maybe a mile off to one side. And he was amazed, and um,
and I it dawned on me when I read the story that gypsy moths.
In those days, the planes couldn't fly too high, so they were
and he was not at a great altitude. I don't know his exact altitude,
but I know he wasn't way up forty thousand feet or anything. And
so I realized that at that height of the atmosphere there would be a lot
of moisture, because lower down you are the more moisture. It's all.
That's part of the reason jets when they fly way up high, they get
away from a lot of the turbulence and storm clouds and stuff in the lower
atmosphere. That's why they fly up there, and it's thinner and they can
go faster. So and of course where the atmosphere is moist if you create
a sudden vacuum, you end up with a cloud. That's how clouds form
as they go up to the lower pressure higher up in the in the sky.
That's why clouds form up there. Um it ends up creating it um
a cloud and um so anyway, so that that made me realize that this
is something. So that that was the third case. But there's a number
of others as well. But I just mentioned those three for our purposes here
and so, and there's a few other characteristics of UFOs, like um uh
they have. One very important one is that they often seemed to rotate and
and that's very important as well. And another characteristic is they uh, they
seem to glow. They often see a glow around UFOs and that's of interesting.
That's what I actually when I had my sighting, it had like a
bluish glow over over it. You know, it's okay. It was it
was like twilight, like eight o'clock in the evening, so it wasn't quite
um, you know, dark, and it went over me. There were
no lights on it, but it okay. It was sort of like us
I would say, a silvery looking disc, but it had the overall had
like a hue of blue, like a light blue glow over the whole thing.
Oh wow, and what year do you remember? More thousand and six?
Oh wow, Monterey area, California, CA. Yeah, oh,
you were lucky to be out there. I love it. I love California.
And by the way, um, when was that Chicago or Harris sighting?
U God, I want to say it was two thousand and eight or
seven. I was seven, two thousand. I think it was two thousand
and seven. Yeah, skate C seventeen, I remember that. Um yeah,
look as we're talking, um that look another that case, but that
that left a circle in the cloud, Yes, punched a hole. Yeah.
And the reason I asked, yeah, I have two thousand and six
actually as well. See there you go, and that's what I was looking
for. And you see, this is one of the things that people who
are researching UFOs need to examine, the fact that a lot of these UFO
sightings. Um, there's connections. They occur at the same in the same
year, same month, same season and stuff. So in other words,
fifty seven you saw a slew of sightings U fifty nine. There were a
bunch of a whole bunch In the early sixties, there was a whole bunch.
There were these waves at different times. And see how I quickly connected
your sighting to the one up at O'Hare and isn't. And see, this
is the kind of stuff we people who look at the UFO penn and need
to pay attention to because that corroborates, it tends to confirm your sighting because
these things were being seen elsewhere. And um so anyway, so now I
think I'll jump right into the physics because I've kind of given the background we
need and so here it is, and because I suddenly realize we only have
till ten o'clock. Yeah, and then we're gonna be taking calls too,
so oh so I better go fast and and oh okay, So anyway,
um, as people may be aware, are the two pillars of modern physics
or quantum mechanics and general relativity. And general relativity deals with the world of
the very large planets, stars, solar systems, oh galaxies, the universe
as a whole, and a quantum mechanics deals with the world of the very
small subotomic particles atoms, things like that quirks and protons, neutrons, electrons
and things and so um uh. And now it turns out that um modern
science. Um. One of the big things in modern science has been to
come up with a theory that unites all of the theories that are out there
and uh and and it's basically called the toe t oe theory of everything in
it and the big toe you know, it's so it's easy to remember and
uh. But anyway, UM, so general relativity. UM. It came
out in nineteen fifteen, and then the quantum theory. Uh. Max Plank
came out with the with his ideas on the quanta back then, and he
and Einstein worked on that, and then by the nineteen mid nineteen twenties they
had come up with all the basic rules and formulas of quantum mechanics. And
then they um later on they uh, they refined that much more in the
years after that. UM. But anyway, one of the big things,
kind of the holy grail of modern physics has been to try to unite uh,
the you know, the quantum theory with general relativity and the key thing
that's going on. Uh. And I do need to kind of do a
mention a little bit of physics here, which is very important. UM.
We do need to know them the structure the quantum area of physics the structure
of matter and the forces that act on matter. Um. So basically everything
is made up of either matter particles or force particles acting on the stage of
space time, interacting on the space stage of space time, and that's it.
That's the whole universe. We have space time, we have matter part
particles, we have forced particles. And it gets easier than that. It
turns out that there really are only a few primary uh matter particles. There
are quarks, and there are leptons, and then there and that's it.
Those are the two basic families of matter particles and the quarks make up the
protons and neutrons and masons and particles like that. But most people are aware
of protons and neutrons in an atom, and leptons include like an electron and
neutrinos, and that's it. There's only really a few basic matter particles in
the universe that that that's it. But they combine in many, many different
ways. And I won't go into too much detail on that because I don't
want to confuse the listenership, and it's not all that critical. Uh.
There's there's only really two types of quarks, and up quirk and a down
quirk that make up ninety nine percent of all the matter in the universe.
And there's a few other types of quarks out there, but they are higher
energy versions of the two basic ones. And so there's an up quark,
a down quirk, an electron, and neutrinos and that's that's all. There
is the four fundamental basic matter particles that make up everything, and so those
are the matter particles, and on the force particles. Again, there's only
four um four types of force particles U are. There's four basic types of
forces. There's the strong nuclear force, which acts only withinside the nucleus and
it holds the nuclei together. And there's the weak nuclear force, which is
responsible for radioactivity. And I'm going to be done with this real quick.
I'm sorry I have to go into this detail, but it's important to the
overall thing. UM. And then there is electromagnetism, which everybody is familiar
with. Um of photons carry the electromagnetic force. And then there's gravity,
which we are all very familiar with because when we have to get up in
the morning to go to work, we all fight gravity until our first cup
of coffee. And so anyway, um uh, those are the four fundamental
forces of nature, and there is a fifth, a background field called the
Higgs field, but I'll get to that in a second. But anyway,
the strong nuclear force consists of gluons that are that are exchange the strong nuclear
force, the weak nuclear forces W plus W minus neutral electromagnetism is carried by
the photon and gravity. And here's we're getting into important stuff. They've never
seen this particle. It's called the graviton, and that's the particle that is
believed to carry the gravity force. So the interesting thing is in physics,
what they want to do is try to unite these forces. They have had
success Martin with the three non gravity forces, with the strong nuclear force,
the weak nuclear force, and electromagnetism, and they've made some serious headway there.
For example, they've been able to unite electromagnetism with the weak nuclear force,
and that's called the electroweak force, and so that's a major feather in
the cap of physics modern physics. And they are working on theories that unite
the strong nuclear force with the electroweak force. And that looks like they know
they've been working on that. And then of course electromannetism. It was once
thought the electric and magnetic forces were separate, but James Clerk Maxwell united them
and Maxwell's theories. So they've made significant progress in the non gravity forces,
but so far they have not been able to unite gravity with the other three
non gravity forces, and so the question is why not? And here's where
it gets really interesting. And this leads to an explanation of the UFO phenomenon,
and you'll see why. Okay, here's where it gets very exciting.
Gravity. It turns out the gravity interaction is much much weaker than the interaction
of the other non gravity forces typically, and the other forces are relatively close
to each other in terms of interaction strength. So, for example, the
electromagnetic force compared to gravity is ten to the thirty six power stronger than Wow,
isn't that incredible? And right? Exactly right? Thirty six zeros after
the one one followed by thirty six zeros. I mean, it's absolutely staggering.
It's I don't even know what they call it a google plex or whatever,
and I mean it's donning. And the same is true of the other
forces of nature. They too, are tremendously strong interaction strength compared to gravity.
So that appears to be the reason why they can't unite the non gravity
forces with gravity, because they can't really get a handle on the quantum aspects
of gravity because of its obvious weakness. And in fact, this problem,
this discrepancy and strength between the gravitational force and the non gravity forces hasn't is
so important in physics and such a big problem that it actually has a name.
It's called the hierarchy problem. And so everybody listening should pay attention to
that problem in physics, the hierarchy problem. And because that, I also
believe it is going to be the key to solving the UFO phenomenon. And
we're going to get to that real quick here. And all right, everyone,
thanks so much for listening. That's it for the free part of the
show. If you can help us out, we really could use it.
We do have expenses, including a new security system that we had to put
on our website. Plus I am paying the show producer every week to bring
this show to you, and a lot of other expenses, So if you
can help us out, that'd be great for only two dollars or more a
month, and that information is on podcast UFO dot Com. Next week we're
going to do a We're going to do an about face from this show.
It's going to be a on UFOs and Owls with Mike McClellan, so kind
of the opposite of science. We're gonna be talking next week. Mike McLeod
is going to be talking about his new book. I want to thank the
people that help out with the show. Alejandro Rojas for the UFO updates,
our guest, of course, Robert Schroeder. Behind the scenes. Evan is
the show producer, Peggy helps out with the Facebook page, and Keith over
at the Dark Matter Digital Network. Thanks everyone, and remember to keep your
eyes to the sky.