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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and

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we have another great show for you
this evening. We have Robert Schroeder and

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he's gonna be talking about solving in
the UFO enigma. This is going to

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be a little bit of science involved. I hope that doesn't scare you.

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And he's a great guy. I
had him on way long long ago and

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back when my shows are one hour, and speaking of that, I want

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to I want to make something clear. When people sign up for my subscription,

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I say that you have access to
the archives, and that's true,

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but the two hour shows only started
at one twenty seven. I think it

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was Linda Molton Howe was the first
two hour show I had, so it

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only goes back to one hundred and
twenty seven. I just wanted to make

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that disclaimer because I always forget to
say that, and so all the shows

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prior to that we're free shows and
one hour shows. And to support the

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show for two dollars a month,
all you have to do is go to

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podcast ufo dot com and it's right
on the menu bar. If you can't

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help us out, we appreciate every
listener. If you'd like to listen to

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the full shows, all you have
to do is check out YouTube on Wednesday.

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You can watch them live on Wednesday
evening at eight to ten pm Eastern

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Standard Time or on our website podcast
ufo dot com playing both those times,

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and also there's a lot of people
listen over at the Dark Matter Digital Network.

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Hello to you over there, now, I started the show. One

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of the reasons I started the show
is because I'd been doing different pod cast

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for a long time. I still
have one that first one that I started

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was the Antique Auction Forum. It's
still going. Actually I started that back

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in two thousand and nine. So
not too many people interested in UFOs are

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all that interested in antiques, but
you never know. So the really reason

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I'm bringing this up is I have
a show coming up on that that kind

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of has a cross interest because I
have Dan Curry on and he was an

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Emmy Award He won seven Emmy Awards
and fifteen nominations for visual effects on Star

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Trek, and so he's going to
be on my Antique Auction Forum podcast next

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week. He might be on YouTube, we're trying to work that out,

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but he's gonna be talking about his
collection of Star Wars, you know,

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besides behind the scenes memorabilia and stuff
like that. So it might be something

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that you're not interested in. But
I'm definitely going to be bringing up the

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topic of UFOs. I'm going to
do it, Okay, all right,

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that's it. I'm going to bring
in my buddy Alajandro Rojas. Hello.

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Hello, So are you a little
nervous about bringing up UFOs with your antique

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buddies? Uh? Yeah, you
know, I might, M yeah,

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I might feel about before I actually, you know, somehow tested go for

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it. You know what surprising these
days I think is that because of this

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Defense Department of Defense news, people
are feeling a surprising how many people know

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about it, first of all,
and people are feeling pretty good about UFO

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stuff. I think these days they're
feeling more comfortable discussing it. I just

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I had a casting call. Casting
agent wrote me today about they're looking for

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people for a show, and they
say they're going to make it like an

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Anderson Cooper, you know, serious
UFO show for the History Channel coming out.

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Oh, that would be neat and
so the you know what can be

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to reach out to people for them. The History Channel is a lot of

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stuff they must have sent something out
to production companies saying hey, we want

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a UFO show, because I've gotten
some calls and it sounds like it's they're

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being approached from different angles with different
ideas. So we'll see what comes of

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this. But it seems like they
want another show and a couple other networks

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as well, so crush your fringers. I've talked to quite a few of

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these people myself, not just for
you know, programs and stuff they can

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cover, but possibly myself being on
one of these. So we'll see.

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Yeah. Hey, by the way, I want to say to the YouTube

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listeners out there, check out all
a handrow now. I mean you've got

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like a studio thing going there.
You like it. You got a background,

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you have lights everything. Wow,
I've got background and lights. You

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know, I'm gonna get some cooler
logos to put up here. I think

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that will be kind of neat.
I was trying to do something different.

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You know, everybody does green screen, which is kind of neat, but

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it's complicated. I got this other
background. It just didn't work out,

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and you know, you got to
get the distances and everything worked out.

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But yeah, this is pretty cool. I think for now, and I'm

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hoping to do more videos because people
who follow our open Mind YouTube probably wouldn't

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notice we haven't posted any anything in
a while. So I'm gonna try to

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do some more videos. And people
love videos, you know. I was

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doing green screen as as you know, and m and I started like floating,

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so I just couldn't stop at all
these weird like things and weird things.

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Well, your backgrounds cool. Yeah, it's just a photographer's background,

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that's all. Yeah. Yeah,
maybe I'll be able to sell, you

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know, make some money. Yeah, like killing was a QVC TV or

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something. Yeah. Yeah, I
was thinking I've got some some like stickers.

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It's gonna put like here's hack for
it that event that Mark and Ben.

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But that bank be too small.
Yeah, but yeah for one hundred

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dollars podcast, UFO can be behind
Aljandro Rojas sank To. Yeah. Yeah.

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So what's what's happened in the UFO
world. Yeah, lots of cool

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stuff going on. In my humble
opinion, UM, I do want to

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plug you know, Tyler rogue Away, the guy I interviewed UM this week

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because he was great. He writes
for a conventional Another person who because of

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the DoD News felt emboldened to be
able to write about UFOs, UH,

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something he has an interest in.
And he started off and he said,

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you know, aerospace people, pilots, they all have an interest in UFOs.

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He says, if they say they
don't, they're lying. M So

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he knows this because he's a journalist
that writes for Defense and he writes about

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Lockheed Martin skunk Works, all of
this really cool stuff. And he has

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tackled a couple of UFO stories recently, one of which which is hit the

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headlines. You and I have talked
about this Arizona UM event, Arizona,

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the UH and New Mexico or these
pilot saw something, but he hasn't even

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much better one, which is what
are this? This flight from California to

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Oregon where they had seen an object
that was caught on radar. The control

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tower asked to pilot eight, does
anybody see this? Many many pilots chimed

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in and said, yeah, we
see it, We see it. You

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know. They described it as a
bright object that was very large, as

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as large as they are, which
of course they're these large commercial airplanes.

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They felt that this is nothing small. This has got to be big.

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But it didn't have a transponder,
so that was weird. They didn't know

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what it was. It was moving
at a speed equal to theirs at least

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it was at a you know,
length that was at least as large as

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theirs. Nobody said they could make
out any wings or anything. These were

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flights that were landing in Portland.
As soon as these flights landed, F

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fifteens were scrambled and the ft fifteens
couldn't find anything that whatever it was was

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gone by the time that these F
fifteen fighters got there. So a great

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case. He did some great foil
work. He worked worked with the FAA

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to get the audio. So it's
an incredible case. It's it's a really

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really good case. So you can
find this on the website called It's the

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Drive, and the section he writes
for, which is a defense section,

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is called the war Zone. And
Tyler rogue Away is his name. You

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can find him on Twitter too,
but some really good stuff. I had

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him on my podcast last time.
But those are some great stories out there.

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Yeah, I've listened to started listening
to the podcast. I think I

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fell asleep has nothing to do with
you. It's just late at night,

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but it sounded like it was really
good. Yeah, that was It was

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a lot of fun. He sounded
enthusiastic as well, so and I was,

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Yeah, I really liked talking to
people like outside of well, not

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not to offend anyone at all,
but kind of like outside of the UFO

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realm that have had some type of
experience. They're always interesting stories and an

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interesting perspective. Yeah, I agree. Um, I agree with you one

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hundred percent. And uh And it's
important, I think, because if we're

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going to reach broader audiences. Uh
And and enlists people with expertise who can

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help. Um. And the type
of expertise at Rogaway has being very familiar

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with topsy gret aircraft or or our
defense capabilities. That's that's expertise, which

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is vital. And uh And we
talked about why he has been reticent to,

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you know, discuss or do anything
with his UFO interests because of the

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nature of the field. You know, there's um a lot of goofballs out

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there. We're silly goofballs. Yeah, that's right, we're harmless, which

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is yeah, we're the harmless type
of goofball. Yeah. Anything else happening,

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Yeah, there's other stuff that's kind
of cool. This is I think

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a very cool story. The story
I posted was from Popular Mechanics. You

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canbind this on the front page of
Open Mind stat TV. But there are

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other stories out there, and this
is the idea that they think they might

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have discovered life on Venus. So
this is a really yeah, this is

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a really neat story had popped up, but I got some details here.

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But essentially, of course they've thought
that Venus is too hot and inhospitable to

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have life, but they've noticed these
dark clouds in Venus's atmosphere and they think

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that these might be light absorbing bacteria. So it would kind of be like

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the ocean where we have these blooms
of bacteria and similar thing, but in

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their atmosphere in Venus that you know, there may be this bacteria living there.

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So an amazing discovery if they do
find find out that's what it is.

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But it's really cool that, yeah, they're taking this really seriously,

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that this could be maybe, so
all these contacts we that were saying there

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were, you know, in touch
with the Venusians, all these you know,

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yeah, they were right. Who
knows, maybe these bacteria have consciousness

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and they've been they even can use
telepathy. Who knows that. Sure,

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we'll find out over time, you
know, we're always finding out. The

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universe is much stranger than we expect. But maybe they'll be watching these plumes

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and they'll see some kind of large
creature come floating up in the clouds and

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eating the bacteria. Who knows.
But yeah, the ironic though a planet

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that um It has been stated many
many times over the years that there's no

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way there could be life there.
Wouldn't that be got ironic if life was

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found there first, no kidding,
especially with all of the missions and everything,

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all the focus on Mars, it
would be shocking. It would be

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really cool if that did happen.
Yeah, let's see. There was another

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couple of things. Tom belong.
It's got a secret Machines book too coming

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out. Of course it's fictionalized or
no, this is, but it's supposed

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to be based on real stuff.
That's kind of interesting. But this is

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really cool. The mint in Winnipeg
is the Canadian mint. They are posting

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a Manitoba UFO encounter coin. They
actually already made it, and I guess

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it's a hit. It's a different
kind of shape and it glows in the

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dark. But it is in commemoration
of the sighting that took place. And

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Chris root Rutkowski, you know that
the UFO researcher in Canada. He's been

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doing some news pieces, so we
have some of those. We posted the

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extended version of an interview with him
about this with CTV Canadian Television News,

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and so it's it's kind of cool. This was an event that occurred in

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the seventies. I can't remember exactly
which year, Sorry for that, but

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essentially, this is a guy who
came across a craft and it actually burned

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him. He was got too close
and he said it took off in it

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burnt these marks across his chest.
But yeah, yeah, they're commemorating this

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UFO encounter with this coin, a
really cool coin. I was like,

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I'm gonna get it. It's a
twenty dollars coin. But you know,

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even though they put that monetary value, they charge more for them. I

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wasn't aware of that. So I
went to was really happy to spend my

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twenty dollars and it turned out it's
actually one hundred and forty dollars for the

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coin. So I'm not sure if
I can make that much of an investment

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yet my boss did or John Rao, the owner of open mind stat TV.

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So I'm excited to get a look
at his coin once he gets it.

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I guess they're going to be shipped
out in June. But really cool.

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I always think of that as a
Falcon Lake incident, and that was

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back in nineteen sixty seven, by
the way. Yeah, you're right,

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and you know what I could be
and this has happened before, believe it

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or not. I could be completely
wrong in the signing that day. I

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don't know that would be the same
sighting because the guy had the burn marks

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on him. Yeah, but it
happened in Manitoba. Yeah it is Felcolm

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Leak. Yeah, you're right,
sixty seven, so that that is the

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one that they're commemorating. Yeah,
yeah, that is so cool stuff.

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Yeah, that's that was quite a
quite an incident. I would love to

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do a show and that sometime.
If there's like a researcher that wrote a

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book, I don't know, I
haven't even looked into it, but that

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would be good to do it.
You know, you'll have to. You

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know, people can go to open
mindset TV right now and on the front

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page in our headlines. Um,
you'll see the interview with Chris Rudkowski.

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Um, he might be the person
to talk to about that case. Yeah.

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Yeah, and he's great. I
mean, he's a journalist, he's

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he's very credible and grounded in his
research. So I'm a big fan of

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his. But if you go to
articles and then you go to look at

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the daily UFO headlines, you'll see
the link for the actual coin story,

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where you'll be able to also find
the link to purchase your own should you

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wish to do so. Okay,
so is that it for news? Today's

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it? Yeah, unless you want
tomorrow. I'm sure I can come up

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with something. There's always lots of
exciting stuff going on. I think it's

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time to bring on the guests.
But I really appreciate it, Ahndrow,

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and will be talking to you next
week as always. Yep, you've got

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a great guest to go to,
so you better get to it. And

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thank you very much. We'll talk
to you next week. All right,

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take care, byebye, t see. Yeah. All right. Our guest

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Robert Schroeder, like I said,
he was on many years ago at the

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beginning of the podcast. His book
is called Solving the UFO enigma, how

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modern physics is revealing the technology of
UFOs. He's recently retired, well,

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he's been retired, awhile after twenty
six years from Hewlett Packard, where he

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was involved in operations and product management. He has degrees in math from Marutgers

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and University and in aerospace engineering.
And anyway, we are going to be

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talking now to Robert. Welcome to
the show again, Robert him Morton.

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Thank you for having me on the
show again. Yeah. Yes, last

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time he was face to face in
my office when I was down in Massachusetts.

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I don't know if I remember,
Yeah, I sure do. Yeah,

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I've been Uh oh where was it
by the mall? Yeah? That

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was it right? Well, as
I say, they're the locals. Yeah,

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I'm from New Jersey, so yeah
I originally yeah yeah. Um.

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For the I believe I hear a
phone ringing, perhaps that's okay, you're

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right, Yeah, that's okay.
Um so um. For the person that

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doesn't know your background, um,
I know you have other science or engineers

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in your family, but can you
kind of give a background. And I

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remember you telling me you had a
sighting when you were young, a real

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unique sighting, if I remember right, right, that's exactly right. And

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I'm glad you mentioned that because I
would like to talk about that a little

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too. But first let me give
you a little bit of my background.

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I come from New Jersey, as
I just mentioned, and I grew up

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in te Neck, New Jersey,
which is a little town, well not

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that little. It's physically it's not
too big, but population wise, it

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has about forty fifty thousand people,
so compared to the town I live in

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now, which is physically much bigger
but has a much smaller population. But

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we were a suburb of New York
City, and so I grew up there

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in the fifties and sixties, and
probably sometime in the eighties, I came

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up to this part of the country
to work for a computer company. Originally

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it was Digital Equipment Corporation, which
I'm sure many of the local people here

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remember, but eventually Digital was swallowed
by Hewlett Packard. So at the end

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of the day, I ended up
retiring from Hewlett Packard after twenty six twenty

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seven years. And that was a
great company to work for. One of

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the best reasons to work for Hewlett
Packard. I had trips out to California

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in the middle of the winter,
and for those of us in Massachusetts you

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can really appreciate that, you know. But anyway, I come from a

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family of scientists and engineers. My
dad was a chemist and he graduated from

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MIT, so I have that kind
of a back around. Um. I

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have a degree in math from Rutgers. Um My daughter works now down in

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the DC area, and she's a
structural engineer, you know, probably a

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bit unusual for a woman, but
that's what she does. And my wife

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is a math teacher. I met
a high school math teacher. I met

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her in abstract algebra at Rutgers.
So so that ex that gives you an

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idea of who I am, you
know. And I love science. I

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even though I ended up in the
business world. I worked, you know,

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for a computer company there, and
I was actually in finance and operations

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and product management. But my heart
was always with science and physics in particular.

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I just love it, you know. I'm the kind of guy that

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I go to bookstores and Leo,
I live here in Message Sits, and

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I'll go to the Harvard Coope their
big yeah, their big book store there

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you know about that Martin, Ye, yeah, and it's gigantic and they're

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just literally thousands of books on science
and stuff. And my wife gets a

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little upset. But I could spend
the entire day there, you know,

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and looking through the book. She'll
only let me buy so many per trip,

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you know, otherwise would be buried, you know. But I um

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so, anyway, I've been one
of your You sent me an email before

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the show that one of your listeners
I think his name was Tom, had

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asked a couple of questions and how
did I end up with an interest in

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physics and stuff even though I worked
in the business world. Well, actually,

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I originally wanted to work for NASA, but by the time I graduated

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from college in nineteen seventy two.
At that time there was a lot of

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budgetary problems and they were cutting back
on the NASA budget. So I ended

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up switching to a business major.
I ended up getting an MBA, and

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so I stayed in Rutgers for two
more years. And that worked out great

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because I did. Okay, nice
retirement and all that stuff, and but

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I missed science and all through the
years, one time allowed I would read

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on physics and stuff like that.
And just to give you an idea of

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what I what I do when I
read about physics. I loved the you

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know, the general interest books,
and you know, I definitely enjoy those.

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But I also am interested in the
math and physics, so I've been

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for the last year and a half. I've been studying the man of general

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relativity, Tensor math and all that
stuff, and I've also kind of looked

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at quantum mechanics. I derived Schroeder
Inter's equation, which is one of the

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key equations of general relativity. But
in fact, oh I forgot to mention.

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I wrote a book Solving the UFO
Enigma, How modern physics is revealing

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the technology of UFOs. And in
that book, for anybody who's interested,

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they can see how I derived the
key wave equation of quantum mechanics, and

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it's kind of fun. Don't be
afraid of it, don't I tell people,

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even if you don't have a math
background, you can figure it out.

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In the back of the book,
I show basic calculus how to do

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it. I show vector calculus and
things like that too. So that's one

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thing I really believe in that people
should not be afraid of the math and

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00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:03.079
the physics. In the back of
the book and appendix A, I don't

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know if you, Oh, Martin
is showing it on the on the video

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00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.319
here, you can kind of see
it in appendix Oh yeah, you're looking

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at the shorterger equation derivation there and
and it's it's not as bad as you

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might think. It takes a little
bit of Uh, you've got to kind

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of go through the um the if
you don't have a background in math,

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you want to go to the appendix
A and look at that, and then

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you can flip back to the shorter
your equation. And but if that hope

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that gives people an idea of where
I come from in my background. I

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love science, and I'm you know, I have so much fun. Oh,

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by the way, another thing I
forgot to mention. After I retired,

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I started doing substitute teaching at a
middle school and high schools and stuff,

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and I have so much fun with
the kids. Um. I try

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to inspire them to get into math
and science. And for a very good

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reason, I believe, because many
people may not be aware of this,

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but only about six or seven percent
of American college students go into engineering and

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00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.839
engineering and science. In contrast in
China, which is certainly one of our

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big competitors today. It's something like, isn't that incredible? It's it's six

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00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:38.039
seven times greater, you know,
And so if you don't watch out,

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we're going to lose our shirts,
you know. Um and technology is so

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00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.920
so critical but pardon me, but
not only that, but you think of

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00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:52.680
the population of China compared to the
US, and then you do the math

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how many people that is compared not
never mind percentage, but the amount of

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people. And you're going to get
real smart people in there. You know,

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it's just bound to happen statistically.
Yep, I totally agree. And

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we have really got to be kind
of proactive about this, um and so.

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But anyway, that's so when I'm
at middle school and the high school,

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I love telling I love inspiring the
kids and telling them about you know,

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00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:27.359
special relativity, general relativity and stuff
like that, and I UM and

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I've come up with some kind of
simple ways to show them how it works,

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so they can actually see how the
curvature of space time creates what we

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00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:44.920
call gravity. And then I do
another example that shows that anybody can come

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up with the equations of special relativity. If you if you know the Pythagorean

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00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.480
theorem, you can. You can
do it on your own. And it's

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00:25:52.559 --> 00:26:00.559
it's that easy, you know.
And people are unnecessarily afraid of um math

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00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:06.039
and science and they shouldn't be.
And but anyway, so I want to

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also mention about the UFO sighting that
I had. This Okay, this was

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00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:17.759
way back, way way back.
It was in nineteen November nineteen fifty seven.

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And for people who have really followed
the UFO experience over the years here

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they will be aware that nineteen fifty
seven was one of those times when there

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was a gigantic UFO wave around the
world, but particularly in the United States.

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And at the time, I was
only about ten years old, and

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I and I and of course I
didn't I don't think I was reading the

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00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.240
papers back then. I think I
was out playing baseball. But m so,

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but one day in nineteen fifty seven. But I did love science even

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then as a kid, had used
to bias chemistry sets and things like that.

335
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.759
And my grandfather was an engineer.
So because of that kind of history

336
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:12.759
and background, it's just sort of
in my blood, you know. And

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00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:18.240
and so one day, about five
o'clock in the afternoon in November, so

338
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:23.400
the so the sun was already beginning
to go down, but you could still

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00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.039
see it. I mean you could. It was still bright daylight. And

340
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.000
I looked up in the sky.
And we lived about two miles two or

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three miles west of New York City
Manhattan the George Washington Bridge for people that

342
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:45.240
know that part of the country.
And and so I looked up and I

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looked at the peak of the roof
of our house. We had a big,

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00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:49.920
two story house. I come from
a big family, so we needed

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00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:56.400
a big house. I have five
brothers and sisters, and and yeah,

346
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:03.079
I know, so uh. But
anyway, what happened was I was out

347
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.079
there, and I don't know why
I was out there, but I used

348
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to love to look up at this
at the bowing seven h seven was just

349
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:18.200
coming out, and so you could
see these jets going across the sky.

350
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And I used to love to go
up there and go out and look at

351
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them. And I looked up and
I saw this cylindrical shaped object coming over

352
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.759
the roof of our house. But
it was way up there, probably about

353
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.039
five thousand feet, and it was
heading straight toward New York City, and

354
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:40.640
it was exactly the shape of a
cigarette. That's the best way I can

355
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:45.079
describe it. And it was gold
in color. And I'm looking at this

356
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.680
thing, and I'm thinking, this
is really weird because Bowing seven H seven's

357
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:53.319
had tapered front and back. The
nose was tapered and the tail was tapered,

358
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:57.720
and you could and you could see
the wings usually now, of course,

359
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.960
anybody in a clear It was a
perfectly clear blue sky. And I've

360
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.759
noticed sometimes when a plane tilts its
wings a certain way, you can see

361
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.680
the fuselage, but you can't really
see the wings, and so you know

362
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.039
they're there, but you know you
don't really see them. And so I

363
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.440
thought, well, maybe that's what
it is, and maybe it's just an

364
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.599
optical illusion about the blunt front and
the blunt back. I mean when I

365
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:30.160
say shape light a cigarette, I
mean exactly like a cigarette. And then

366
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:36.000
as it continued, it's a majestic
that's the only way I can describe it,

367
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:41.400
a majestic movement across the sky,
heading east toward New York City.

368
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.400
And as I mentioned, we were
about two or three miles west of Manhattan.

369
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:53.200
I noticed there was a round object
following in tandem behind this thing,

370
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:00.000
and it was maybe one length of
the cigarette behind it, and the cigarette,

371
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.680
by the way, was long access
was pointing toward New York, and

372
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:11.200
it was going in the direction of
travel, and so anyway, they were

373
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:17.680
both moving along together, and the
round object was no wider than the narrow

374
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:23.200
width of the longer cylinder, And
so I was amazed. I could not

375
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.519
believe I was what I was seeing, And here's this thing, and it's

376
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:33.519
and then it finally headed toward the
trees at the other end of our yard.

377
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.440
And at that point I said,
oh my gosh, I got to

378
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:40.359
tell my brothers and sisters. So
I ran inside to get them, and

379
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.799
I got one of my brothers to
come out, and he took a look

380
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.960
and he saw it just as it
disappeared. But it was really strange.

381
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.359
But now I got to tell you
the connection to the UFO phenomenon. It

382
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.039
was November in nineteen fifty seven,
and anybody who studied the UFO phenomenon over

383
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:03.559
the years knows that an early November
UM there was a big UFO case standard

384
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.480
level in Texas. Does it does
that ring a bell? It was,

385
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:12.440
j Oh, it doesn't. It
was should have known of that one,

386
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:18.079
but I just can't can't recall it. Oh yeah, no problem. Well,

387
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.359
UM, briefly what happened down there? And doctor J. L.

388
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:26.319
And Heinech investigated, UM, these
objects came down. There was about seven

389
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.519
or eight sightings around this town,
and people's trucks were being stopped, cars

390
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:37.480
being stopped when these egg shaped objects
would land on the road. UM,

391
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.920
you know, one hundred couple hundred
feet in front of a car and the

392
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:48.240
car's engine would stop. A very
typical characteristic of UFO close encounters. And

393
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.359
A and as doctor Heineck points out
many times in his books, UM,

394
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.839
so it's very interesting that I saw
this thing in November two. I think

395
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:05.240
that's significant and A and so anyway, UM years later, UM, as

396
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:09.960
a as a teenager, I took
a book out of UM the te Neck

397
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:19.160
Public Library by Donald Kehoe, Major
Donald Kehoe and and and again many people

398
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:24.400
with a background in the UFO field
know that Donald Kehoe was was the one

399
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:30.000
of the guys that became even though
he was an Air Force guy. I

400
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.759
think it was he Project Bluebook.
I can't remember, but whatever, he

401
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.799
was the first ye first um Lee
Spiegel and I were just talking about him

402
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:44.680
last night. He was basically the
first UM government whistle blower on UFOs Okay

403
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:50.000
former Air Force and well, one
of his books that I was reading in

404
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:55.480
in the sometime in the nineteen sixties, um it talked about this sighting over

405
00:32:55.559 --> 00:33:01.319
in France. UM that were this
guy I was walking his dog early in

406
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:07.440
the morning and he looked up in
the sky and he saw this gigantic cylinder

407
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:12.200
and it was like two am in
the morning or something, and he said

408
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.039
it was like a metallic cylinder.
It was tilted at a forty five degree

409
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.799
ankle and as he watched it,
he was wondering what the heck it was.

410
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.200
He said, this thing, he
compared it to the clouds, and

411
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.240
he kind of had an idea of
how big the clouds were, and he

412
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:31.759
said this thing easily had to be
a half mile long. And so now

413
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:37.039
I'm really interested as I read this
story because it sounded like the cylinder that

414
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.400
I saw. And he described it
as blunt on the ends and looking pretty

415
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.079
much like a cigarette. And then
here's the key to the whole thing.

416
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.599
He said, on the bottom end
of this thing, suddenly saw a flash

417
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.960
of light and a disc shaped object
came out, swirled around the cylinder a

418
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.079
couple of times, shot off in
one direction of the compass a second and

419
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.960
came out shot off in another direction
until six or seven had come out and

420
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:13.159
disappeared exactly exactly. And I realized
what I had seen back in nineteen fifty

421
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.800
seven was one of these typical mother
ships, and that was just one of

422
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.480
the UFOs, which must be what
I guess you could call scout ships that

423
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:28.119
must be stacked up like plates on
the inside of the mothership, you know.

424
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:35.519
And I finally realized that's what it
was. And that revelation really excited

425
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:39.519
me because I suddenly realized there was
something to this phenomenon. This was something

426
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:45.679
real and so um. Anyway,
over the years, as time permitted,

427
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:51.960
I've been studying the UFO phenomenon and
I and of course my love of science

428
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:58.679
too, I tried to apply many
many times over the years. I kept

429
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.920
wondering if different ideas, UH could
explain it. You've probably heard of the

430
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:08.000
Alcuberry warp drive, Miguel Alcuberry,
and I looked at that back in the

431
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:15.760
nineties. Before that, oh,
there was that guy out in California and

432
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.679
I forget his name, uh,
Kip Thorne, the physicist Kip Thorne,

433
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:25.880
and he discussed the idea of wormholes
and the idea of his of having negative

434
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.880
energy to hold the wormhole open that
would allow craft to travel between the stars.

435
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:36.440
And so there were a number of
these ideas floating around, but I

436
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:46.360
never was totally sure of them and
be and eventually Miguel Alcuberry came out and

437
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:55.000
said that his idea probably wouldn't work
because the energy requirements were way too great.

438
00:35:55.320 --> 00:36:00.039
And Kip Thorne pointed out that the
problem with the war wormhole ideas that

439
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:07.199
the idea of negative energy and and
and a wormhole, uh, trying to

440
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.679
get a wormhole to go to you
can't direct the wormhole. You basically have

441
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.800
to find one and then go into
it, and and and the dangers are

442
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.840
tremendous. I just suddenly realized,
Martin, I've kind of taken off here

443
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.920
without uh, you know, you're
the host. Oh no, no,

444
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:27.239
no, this is all. This
is all interesting. By the way,

445
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.400
UM, I have a question involving
a Ray Stanford coming up here in a

446
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:34.760
second that was sent to me.
He just emailed me to correct me,

447
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.519
and I looked it up at the
same time. Keyhole was actually a marine

448
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.920
major. He was an aviator too. Yeah, okay, thanks, And

449
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.280
I was a woman said he was
air forced. So that was wrong.

450
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.599
So here's a question with Ray.
And by the way, later on we'll

451
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:52.360
take calls anyone wants to call in. Um we will be taking calls right

452
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:57.320
after let's see about a half hour
from now. Um okay. So this

453
00:36:57.400 --> 00:37:02.559
person want to know have you ever
spoken with Ray Stanford regarding propulsion ideas?

454
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:08.239
Race seems to have some very complex
understanding or theories regarding propulsion. It would

455
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:14.519
be neat to see how both ideas
compare. Have you and Ray ever discussed

456
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:22.559
this? You know, before the
show, I knew that question was going

457
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.719
to be coming, and I quickly
I only had about ten or fifteen minutes,

458
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.840
but I quickly looked up on the
internet and I couldn't find much on

459
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:35.480
Ray Stanford. And I couldn't find
much about his theories, in fact,

460
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.239
actually nothing, So I don't really
know. I've heard, I've definitely heard

461
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:44.000
of him. He's been I've heard
him mentioned a few other times. I

462
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:50.519
just haven't been able to find out
much about his ideas. The only place

463
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.239
that I can think of and Ray
may call in. He's called in a

464
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.960
number of times. But the only
place I can think that it's published would

465
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:02.079
be in Chris Lambright's book X descending
UM and his propulsion theory is played out

466
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:07.079
very well, and that um with
images and everything. It's very interesting.

467
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:09.880
And uh, you know Ray again, Ray may call in later, you

468
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.000
know, in the half hour,
but we have to we have to talk

469
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:21.159
about your your theories, how you
came up with it. And I remember

470
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:24.199
I was kind of baffled and it
and you didn't go to science e but

471
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.840
you had to get a little bit
uh into math and a little bit on

472
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:32.559
how things work. Um. So
let's can start at the beginning or anywhere.

473
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:38.639
Oh okay, yeah, that that
sounds great, Martin. And so

474
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:44.559
the first thing I want to address
is the UFO evidence. And I know

475
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:50.360
a lot of people are skeptical about
UFOs and um UM, but they really

476
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:54.000
shouldn't be. I don't think the
ones that listened to this show, I

477
00:38:54.320 --> 00:39:00.000
don't believe they are. I believe
there are some for the most for the

478
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.960
most part that you know, I
have people that are that are interested.

479
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.280
We have a lot of people that
are very good, healthy skeptics, but

480
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:12.119
still are interested like you were all
the years. Yes, and I uh,

481
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:17.280
you may have heard of skeptical inquirer
and Robert Schaefer and I actually saw

482
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:23.079
him Dan in Arizona at the International
UFO Congress and I tried to get him

483
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:27.199
to come over to my table,
but I couldn't get him to come over.

484
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:30.039
It was too bad. Um.
But I'm I, you know,

485
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.559
I always want those guys to get
a fair hearing. Um. You know.

486
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:37.239
So I'm I don't really have any
problem with skeptics, um. But

487
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:45.320
my my attitude is that, um
you know now that kepler um, the

488
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:51.519
Kepler telescope um and um, wait, was the kepler or whichever, No,

489
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.840
Keppler's going up. That's the new
one kepler up there, okay.

490
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.039
And James Webb is the one that
the James Webb. That's it, thank

491
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.840
you Martin. Yep, the James
Webb is going up I think this year.

492
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:10.599
But anyway, the kepler and some
other methods that they've been using,

493
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:20.480
they've found about four thousand extrasolar planets
out there, and I think they even

494
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:28.400
found when the Trappist system tr Appist
that has like eight or nine, seven

495
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:32.199
or eight planets, many of them
earth sized, and they think two or

496
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:38.119
three appear to be in the habitable
habitable zone of the Trappist System. I

497
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:44.679
don't know how many people have heard
about that, but the fact that the

498
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:53.239
methods that they're using now are kind
of biasing the data toward planets that are

499
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:59.480
closer to their parents star. And
for example, the Trappist System is a

500
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:04.000
dwarf star, a red dwarf,
and so those planets are relatively close.

501
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.400
And of course the reason for that
is they what they're looking for is um

502
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.920
when the planet eclipses the star and
there's a slight change in the light,

503
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.800
then they know that the planet is
there, or there's a wobble in the

504
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:23.320
star's orbit because of the planets tugging
it, and so these are the different

505
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:28.800
things. But of course a planet
that's closer to its parents star is going

506
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.239
to create more of a wobble.
And so the methods that they're they're using

507
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:37.880
right now are not really designed to
find solar systems like ours, where the

508
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:44.960
planets are spread out and it's a
G star and and of course nine nine

509
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:51.960
of the stars out there, the
planets going around them won't be in uh,

510
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:54.400
you know, directly in our plane
so that we can see the planets

511
00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:00.760
against that star. It's only about
one percent that are happened to be eclipsing

512
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.719
their stars that are at the right
angle the orbits of their planets. And

513
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:12.000
so the reason I mentioned that is
because the fact that just by these relatively

514
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:17.440
primitive methods they've already found four thousand
planets in a decade or two tells you

515
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:24.360
that they are just everywhere and so, and before this they really didn't know.

516
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:30.199
It was pure speculation, the Drake
equation, and so now they know,

517
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:35.599
and the odds are that there are
just literally billions trillions of planets out

518
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:42.280
there, and so I think the
possibility of other earths with intelligent life are

519
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:49.840
just phenomenal, you know, I
think they're absolutely overwhelming. And so anyway,

520
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.960
so what I want to get to
is the next question is if there

521
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:59.199
is life out there, have some
of these more advanced civilizations than ours,

522
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.000
have they been able to figure out
how to get to planet Earth? And

523
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:06.920
I think they have. And the
reason I say that is because of the

524
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.400
UFO evidence, not just my sighting, but sightings by thousands and thousands of

525
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:19.840
people, by very credible witnesses like
airline pilots, professors and things like that,

526
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:25.599
people like that. And so I
want to point out the evidence from

527
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:32.000
the accumulated evidence we have of UFOs
and their characteristics, because that's critical.

528
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:39.320
So one of the things that's really
interesting about UFOs is their rapid accelerations.

529
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:45.079
This has been reported time and time
again. I remember there was like I

530
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:51.119
think it was a General Mills.
I know they're a serial company, but

531
00:43:51.199 --> 00:44:00.519
they operate some atmospheric research labs too, and they were doing some worked down

532
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:05.400
I think in New Mexico or someplace
like that, and they had some balloons

533
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:12.199
up there that they were observing through
THEODO light. And one day they observed

534
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:16.119
they saw a UFO circling one of
their balloons, and they were watching it

535
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:20.800
and they could see it clearly,
and they said it was a typical disk

536
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:24.800
shape UFO. And then to their
amazement, the thing took off, they

537
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:31.599
estimated because they were able to track
it at over one hundred geeves one hundred

538
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:39.280
times the force of gravity the acceleration. This is unbelievable and a and so

539
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.320
the best human pilot can do is
about ten gs and some in our jet

540
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:50.079
fighters, and even then it takes
a g suit and special training and stuff,

541
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.079
and that's about the best they can
do. So that's an important characteristic

542
00:44:53.119 --> 00:45:00.559
of UFOs this phenomenal acceleration, and
we have to pay attention into these characteristics

543
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:07.679
if we're going to understand their technology. And so that's one thing that's very

544
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:14.559
important now. In order for an
object, any kind of object, to

545
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:21.599
accelerate fast, it has to overcome
inertia, and inertia is basically is nothing

546
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:27.639
more than the resistance to acceleration.
And there's a number of theories out there

547
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:35.239
on where inertia comes from. But
one of the guys that way back many

548
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:40.239
many years ago, back at the
old in the turn of the previous century,

549
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:46.440
around nineteen hundred or sometime in that
era, at an Austrian physicist by

550
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:52.519
the name of Ernst Mock, came
up with Mock's principle, and his idea

551
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:58.599
was that inertia is due to the
mass of the entire universe, so pulling

552
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.559
on any particular object when it tries
to accelerate. And and so he meant,

553
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:07.079
when you look up at the sky
at night, all those stars out

554
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:12.320
there, all those galaxies and everything
like that, billions and billions of light

555
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:17.840
years away, are all tugging on
whatever object it is in our vicinity that

556
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:24.840
tries to accelerate, which is kind
of an amazing theory. And Einstein wanted

557
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:31.039
to incorporate Mock's principle into his general
theory of relativity, and he wasn't really

558
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:37.280
sure whether he did or not,
But anyway, so there's a number of

559
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.920
people that have looked at this over
the years. But um so, but

560
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:49.320
the key thing I'm really trying to
get at is is that inertia any The

561
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.519
greater the mass of an object,
the greater the inertia, so the harder

562
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.760
it is to accelerate. And this
is very important to what we're going to

563
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:01.880
get to later. And so,
um somehow and now, how much do

564
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:08.119
these UFO's way? While Ted Phillips
of Mufaun, who used to work for

565
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:15.159
doctor j. Allen Heineck, I
actually went out and did a multi year

566
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:20.280
study on this, and he examined
landing sites where UFOs had come down and

567
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:22.960
looked at the indentations in the ground. I think there was one in France

568
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:30.000
where atlanted on railroad ties and left
deep indentations in the railroad ties. And

569
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:36.360
so he concluded that these objects and
he said in the witnesses reported that the

570
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.719
object came down and then Jeff very
gently settled down. So the indentations don't

571
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:47.360
appear to be from momentum the object
coming in fast and leaving a bigger indentation,

572
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.320
so they appear to be just from
the weight of the UFO itself after

573
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:59.079
it turned off. It's at whatever
engines it has. But he ended up

574
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.760
coming up with the figure between ten
and thirty tons, ten tons to thirty

575
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:08.079
tons for the typical disk shape and
egg shaped and stuff like that. Yes,

576
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:12.880
you got it, Martin, it's
on this this is and you know,

577
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:19.039
just getting um. You do hear
of impressions that are very deep on

578
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.960
these landings, like, for instance, the egg shape one its coral left

579
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:27.239
you know, really jig, you
know, deep marks in the ground.

580
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:32.320
That's right, and and that's right. And doctor j l and Heinek examined

581
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:37.880
that that landing site. So that
was a very interesting one because a police

582
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:43.280
officers generally going to be very credible, and I think there was possibly other

583
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:49.480
witnesses who observed the thing at a
distance and but um. But anyway,

584
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:53.159
the reason I mentioned this is because
somehow these UFOs, which appear to be

585
00:48:53.199 --> 00:49:00.239
in that ten to thirty ton range
have fun nominal acceleration, which tells you

586
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:07.639
that something really interesting is going on
here, And for them to accelerate an

587
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.800
object with great mass like that,
you can think of like a cannon ball.

588
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:16.599
It takes tremendous force to shoot a
cannon ball. And you can actually

589
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:21.880
see the cannon ball, uh,
you know, as it travels, if

590
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.519
you're at a particular angle, you
can see it. But a rifle bullet,

591
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:29.400
which is has very little mass,
when you shoot it out of a

592
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:31.280
rifle, you can't see it.
It's just so fast, you know,

593
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:37.440
and it can accelerate a lot faster
than a cannon ball. And I've actually

594
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:42.400
seen this. This is something I
it amazed me. I was in Vietnam

595
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:49.199
back in sixty seven sixty eight and
in the US Army and the Battleship New

596
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.679
Jersey, the state from where I
come from then, was shooting at targets

597
00:49:53.719 --> 00:50:00.199
beyond where we were. And we
were, you know, we were just

598
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:04.400
kind of we could hear the noise
of the shells. Um are the ones

599
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:09.440
that had already passed us because they're
going uh pretty fast and uh and so

600
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:15.519
but we happen to be looking up
and we saw these silver flashes in the

601
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.360
sky and I realized we were looking
at the shells being lobbed by the New

602
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:25.000
Jersey. So that tells you an
object with a lot of mass can't go

603
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:29.599
very fast, but it does carry
a lot of punch because of its mass

604
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:36.639
and and and of course the explosives
and but but anyway, that's just an

605
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:42.079
example of uh, what I mean
by inertia and mass, the relationship there.

606
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:45.400
So that's one of the one of
the other important characteristics. Um And

607
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:52.960
then another very important characteristic of UFOs
is their ability to levitate, and and

608
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:59.559
that's very interesting too, and typically
levitate without making too much noise, although

609
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:05.360
sometimes as they hear humming or generator
noise, and so I'd have to say

610
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:09.199
that they do make some noise,
any of them do. But a lot

611
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:13.800
of times you do hear of the
silence. That's the one you hear almost

612
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:20.199
more often. Yes, that's exactly
correct, and and I find that pretty

613
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:28.039
amazing too, mum So. But
then another characteristic which I really find interesting

614
00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:32.719
is that these um A number of
people over the years, pilots have seen

615
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:40.880
these UFOs become partially transparent and then
totally disappear. And one of the best

616
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:47.480
cases was Captain Charles Dubac air France, and I don't remember the date,

617
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:53.559
maybe nineteen ninety four something like that, but he was approaching Paris in a

618
00:51:53.800 --> 00:52:04.960
Boeing seven forty seven and he observed
about a thousand foot diameter red disc about

619
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.599
twenty miles ahead of him. And
this red disc, he said, it

620
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:14.119
was picked up on their airborne radar
as well as two ground radars, a

621
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:21.039
military and civilian. And as they
watched this object, it became partially transparent,

622
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.199
and then they finally could see straight
through it, and it finally totally

623
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:30.320
disappeared. But it isn't that I
find that amazing. And then another guy

624
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:37.199
up in Canada, and this was
more recent, I think maybe twenty fourteen

625
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:43.960
twenty fifteen, observed a cylindrical shaped
UFO that was below him as he was

626
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.880
coming in for a landing, and
he saw it moving above this highway.

627
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:54.199
And then as the UFO maybe apparently
for some reason, it suddenly became partially

628
00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:59.679
transparent and then totally disappeared right in
front of his eyes. And he said,

629
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.639
the weird thing was he could see
the road right through the object,

630
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.360
but still see the outline of the
object, and then it disappeared, and

631
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:13.920
and and and uh, there's a
number of other cases. There was a

632
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:20.320
guy, oh and I can't remember
his name, M. Chichester, Francis

633
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:23.840
Chichester. You've probably never heard of
him. He was one of the UM

634
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:31.239
pioneers and aviation aviation pioneer and UM
and way back and I believe the nineteen

635
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:39.119
twenties, um um, way back
in the nineteen twenties. Um. Oh,

636
00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:42.119
you know what, the wind is
blowing here, and I heard this

637
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:47.199
noise by the door. And but
but this guy, um, he was

638
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:52.840
flying what's called a gypsy moth aircraft, which is a biplane. So this

639
00:53:53.480 --> 00:54:00.800
wasn't exactly fast, but but he
saw what And those days they didn't call

640
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:06.719
them UFOs in the nineteen twenties,
um, but um, he observed this

641
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:10.920
um um disc shaped object with a
uh you know, with a cupola on

642
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:15.800
the top. And he said what
amazed him was as he was watching it,

643
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:20.079
he said, it was maybe maybe
a mile out ahead of him,

644
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:22.599
and as he's approaching it, um, and it was off to one side

645
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:29.360
a little bit. He said,
the thing became partially transparent and then it

646
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:35.679
totally disappeared. And then where the
object had been, a cloud formed in

647
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:40.039
exactly the shape of the UFO.
And and then it dissipated in the breeze.

648
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:44.039
But then as he looked over on
the right, he saw another flash

649
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:47.000
of light and the object reappeared over
there. He said, it seemed like

650
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:53.039
it was splitting the sky and reappearing, and it moved, he said,

651
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:58.960
maybe a mile off to one side. And he was amazed, and um,

652
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.840
and I it dawned on me when
I read the story that gypsy moths.

653
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.760
In those days, the planes couldn't
fly too high, so they were

654
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:10.679
and he was not at a great
altitude. I don't know his exact altitude,

655
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.880
but I know he wasn't way up
forty thousand feet or anything. And

656
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:22.280
so I realized that at that height
of the atmosphere there would be a lot

657
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:24.880
of moisture, because lower down you
are the more moisture. It's all.

658
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:29.960
That's part of the reason jets when
they fly way up high, they get

659
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:35.440
away from a lot of the turbulence
and storm clouds and stuff in the lower

660
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.320
atmosphere. That's why they fly up
there, and it's thinner and they can

661
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:45.480
go faster. So and of course
where the atmosphere is moist if you create

662
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:51.800
a sudden vacuum, you end up
with a cloud. That's how clouds form

663
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:58.239
as they go up to the lower
pressure higher up in the in the sky.

664
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:04.880
That's why clouds form up there.
Um it ends up creating it um

665
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:10.519
a cloud and um so anyway,
so that that made me realize that this

666
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:14.639
is something. So that that was
the third case. But there's a number

667
00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:17.920
of others as well. But I
just mentioned those three for our purposes here

668
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:23.679
and so, and there's a few
other characteristics of UFOs, like um uh

669
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:30.440
they have. One very important one
is that they often seemed to rotate and

670
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:36.440
and that's very important as well.
And another characteristic is they uh, they

671
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:40.119
seem to glow. They often see
a glow around UFOs and that's of interesting.

672
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:44.920
That's what I actually when I had
my sighting, it had like a

673
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.599
bluish glow over over it. You
know, it's okay. It was it

674
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:53.920
was like twilight, like eight o'clock
in the evening, so it wasn't quite

675
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:58.280
um, you know, dark,
and it went over me. There were

676
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:00.000
no lights on it, but it
okay. It was sort of like us

677
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:06.519
I would say, a silvery looking
disc, but it had the overall had

678
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.840
like a hue of blue, like
a light blue glow over the whole thing.

679
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.519
Oh wow, and what year do
you remember? More thousand and six?

680
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:22.440
Oh wow, Monterey area, California, CA. Yeah, oh,

681
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:28.559
you were lucky to be out there. I love it. I love California.

682
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:35.519
And by the way, um,
when was that Chicago or Harris sighting?

683
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:42.480
U God, I want to say
it was two thousand and eight or

684
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:45.360
seven. I was seven, two
thousand. I think it was two thousand

685
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:50.280
and seven. Yeah, skate C
seventeen, I remember that. Um yeah,

686
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:53.159
look as we're talking, um that
look another that case, but that

687
00:57:53.159 --> 00:58:00.920
that left a circle in the cloud, Yes, punched a hole. Yeah.

688
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:06.599
And the reason I asked, yeah, I have two thousand and six

689
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.440
actually as well. See there you
go, and that's what I was looking

690
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:14.920
for. And you see, this
is one of the things that people who

691
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:20.079
are researching UFOs need to examine,
the fact that a lot of these UFO

692
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:23.679
sightings. Um, there's connections.
They occur at the same in the same

693
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:29.400
year, same month, same season
and stuff. So in other words,

694
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:32.719
fifty seven you saw a slew of
sightings U fifty nine. There were a

695
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:37.639
bunch of a whole bunch In the
early sixties, there was a whole bunch.

696
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.039
There were these waves at different times. And see how I quickly connected

697
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:46.199
your sighting to the one up at
O'Hare and isn't. And see, this

698
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:51.760
is the kind of stuff we people
who look at the UFO penn and need

699
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:59.000
to pay attention to because that corroborates, it tends to confirm your sighting because

700
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:05.559
these things were being seen elsewhere.
And um so anyway, so now I

701
00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:08.320
think I'll jump right into the physics
because I've kind of given the background we

702
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:14.800
need and so here it is,
and because I suddenly realize we only have

703
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:17.519
till ten o'clock. Yeah, and
then we're gonna be taking calls too,

704
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:24.159
so oh so I better go fast
and and oh okay, So anyway,

705
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:30.400
um, as people may be aware, are the two pillars of modern physics

706
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:36.599
or quantum mechanics and general relativity.
And general relativity deals with the world of

707
00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:42.840
the very large planets, stars,
solar systems, oh galaxies, the universe

708
00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:49.039
as a whole, and a quantum
mechanics deals with the world of the very

709
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:55.800
small subotomic particles atoms, things like
that quirks and protons, neutrons, electrons

710
00:59:55.880 --> 01:00:05.199
and things and so um uh.
And now it turns out that um modern

711
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:10.320
science. Um. One of the
big things in modern science has been to

712
01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:16.840
come up with a theory that unites
all of the theories that are out there

713
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:23.360
and uh and and it's basically called
the toe t oe theory of everything in

714
01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:29.719
it and the big toe you know, it's so it's easy to remember and

715
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:36.360
uh. But anyway, UM,
so general relativity. UM. It came

716
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:42.679
out in nineteen fifteen, and then
the quantum theory. Uh. Max Plank

717
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:47.840
came out with the with his ideas
on the quanta back then, and he

718
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:54.199
and Einstein worked on that, and
then by the nineteen mid nineteen twenties they

719
01:00:54.239 --> 01:01:00.400
had come up with all the basic
rules and formulas of quantum mechanics. And

720
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:05.800
then they um later on they uh, they refined that much more in the

721
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:08.719
years after that. UM. But
anyway, one of the big things,

722
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:15.360
kind of the holy grail of modern
physics has been to try to unite uh,

723
01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:21.920
the you know, the quantum theory
with general relativity and the key thing

724
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:24.159
that's going on. Uh. And
I do need to kind of do a

725
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:29.000
mention a little bit of physics here, which is very important. UM.

726
01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:35.519
We do need to know them the
structure the quantum area of physics the structure

727
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:42.199
of matter and the forces that act
on matter. Um. So basically everything

728
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:49.719
is made up of either matter particles
or force particles acting on the stage of

729
01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:55.079
space time, interacting on the space
stage of space time, and that's it.

730
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:59.960
That's the whole universe. We have
space time, we have matter part

731
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:05.599
particles, we have forced particles.
And it gets easier than that. It

732
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:13.119
turns out that there really are only
a few primary uh matter particles. There

733
01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:17.320
are quarks, and there are leptons, and then there and that's it.

734
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:23.639
Those are the two basic families of
matter particles and the quarks make up the

735
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:29.800
protons and neutrons and masons and particles
like that. But most people are aware

736
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:35.039
of protons and neutrons in an atom, and leptons include like an electron and

737
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:40.679
neutrinos, and that's it. There's
only really a few basic matter particles in

738
01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:45.079
the universe that that that's it.
But they combine in many, many different

739
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:50.960
ways. And I won't go into
too much detail on that because I don't

740
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.320
want to confuse the listenership, and
it's not all that critical. Uh.

741
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:58.159
There's there's only really two types of
quarks, and up quirk and a down

742
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:02.039
quirk that make up ninety nine percent
of all the matter in the universe.

743
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:06.760
And there's a few other types of
quarks out there, but they are higher

744
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.039
energy versions of the two basic ones. And so there's an up quark,

745
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:15.559
a down quirk, an electron,
and neutrinos and that's that's all. There

746
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:22.599
is the four fundamental basic matter particles
that make up everything, and so those

747
01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:25.559
are the matter particles, and on
the force particles. Again, there's only

748
01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:34.480
four um four types of force particles
U are. There's four basic types of

749
01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:39.480
forces. There's the strong nuclear force, which acts only withinside the nucleus and

750
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:46.519
it holds the nuclei together. And
there's the weak nuclear force, which is

751
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:51.639
responsible for radioactivity. And I'm going
to be done with this real quick.

752
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:53.840
I'm sorry I have to go into
this detail, but it's important to the

753
01:03:54.000 --> 01:04:00.519
overall thing. UM. And then
there is electromagnetism, which everybody is familiar

754
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:06.400
with. Um of photons carry the
electromagnetic force. And then there's gravity,

755
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:11.840
which we are all very familiar with
because when we have to get up in

756
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:16.039
the morning to go to work,
we all fight gravity until our first cup

757
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:21.719
of coffee. And so anyway,
um uh, those are the four fundamental

758
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:30.039
forces of nature, and there is
a fifth, a background field called the

759
01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:35.400
Higgs field, but I'll get to
that in a second. But anyway,

760
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:45.400
the strong nuclear force consists of gluons
that are that are exchange the strong nuclear

761
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:50.760
force, the weak nuclear forces W
plus W minus neutral electromagnetism is carried by

762
01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:58.079
the photon and gravity. And here's
we're getting into important stuff. They've never

763
01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:02.199
seen this particle. It's called the
graviton, and that's the particle that is

764
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:08.760
believed to carry the gravity force.
So the interesting thing is in physics,

765
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:12.840
what they want to do is try
to unite these forces. They have had

766
01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:17.920
success Martin with the three non gravity
forces, with the strong nuclear force,

767
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:27.159
the weak nuclear force, and electromagnetism, and they've made some serious headway there.

768
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:33.239
For example, they've been able to
unite electromagnetism with the weak nuclear force,

769
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:38.760
and that's called the electroweak force,
and so that's a major feather in

770
01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:44.320
the cap of physics modern physics.
And they are working on theories that unite

771
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:48.559
the strong nuclear force with the electroweak
force. And that looks like they know

772
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:53.079
they've been working on that. And
then of course electromannetism. It was once

773
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:58.280
thought the electric and magnetic forces were
separate, but James Clerk Maxwell united them

774
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:05.440
and Maxwell's theories. So they've made
significant progress in the non gravity forces,

775
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:14.079
but so far they have not been
able to unite gravity with the other three

776
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:20.559
non gravity forces, and so the
question is why not? And here's where

777
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:27.440
it gets really interesting. And this
leads to an explanation of the UFO phenomenon,

778
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.840
and you'll see why. Okay,
here's where it gets very exciting.

779
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:40.599
Gravity. It turns out the gravity
interaction is much much weaker than the interaction

780
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:45.199
of the other non gravity forces typically, and the other forces are relatively close

781
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.639
to each other in terms of interaction
strength. So, for example, the

782
01:06:50.079 --> 01:07:00.639
electromagnetic force compared to gravity is ten
to the thirty six power stronger than Wow,

783
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:08.199
isn't that incredible? And right?
Exactly right? Thirty six zeros after

784
01:07:08.239 --> 01:07:13.239
the one one followed by thirty six
zeros. I mean, it's absolutely staggering.

785
01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:15.360
It's I don't even know what they
call it a google plex or whatever,

786
01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:20.119
and I mean it's donning. And
the same is true of the other

787
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:29.519
forces of nature. They too,
are tremendously strong interaction strength compared to gravity.

788
01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:38.519
So that appears to be the reason
why they can't unite the non gravity

789
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:44.760
forces with gravity, because they can't
really get a handle on the quantum aspects

790
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:48.880
of gravity because of its obvious weakness. And in fact, this problem,

791
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:58.000
this discrepancy and strength between the gravitational
force and the non gravity forces hasn't is

792
01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:02.719
so important in physics and such a
big problem that it actually has a name.

793
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:11.760
It's called the hierarchy problem. And
so everybody listening should pay attention to

794
01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:17.760
that problem in physics, the hierarchy
problem. And because that, I also

795
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:23.000
believe it is going to be the
key to solving the UFO phenomenon. And

796
01:08:23.039 --> 01:08:27.279
we're going to get to that real
quick here. And all right, everyone,

797
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:30.239
thanks so much for listening. That's
it for the free part of the

798
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:31.880
show. If you can help us
out, we really could use it.

799
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:36.920
We do have expenses, including a
new security system that we had to put

800
01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:43.640
on our website. Plus I am
paying the show producer every week to bring

801
01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:45.960
this show to you, and a
lot of other expenses, So if you

802
01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.920
can help us out, that'd be
great for only two dollars or more a

803
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:54.159
month, and that information is on
podcast UFO dot Com. Next week we're

804
01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:58.600
going to do a We're going to
do an about face from this show.

805
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.439
It's going to be a on UFOs
and Owls with Mike McClellan, so kind

806
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:08.600
of the opposite of science. We're
gonna be talking next week. Mike McLeod

807
01:09:08.680 --> 01:09:11.359
is going to be talking about his
new book. I want to thank the

808
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:15.359
people that help out with the show. Alejandro Rojas for the UFO updates,

809
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:19.640
our guest, of course, Robert
Schroeder. Behind the scenes. Evan is

810
01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:26.039
the show producer, Peggy helps out
with the Facebook page, and Keith over

811
01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:30.039
at the Dark Matter Digital Network.
Thanks everyone, and remember to keep your

812
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:59.600
eyes to the sky.